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A70157 A just defence and vindication of Gospel ministers and Gospel ordinances against the Quakers many false accusations, slanders and reproaches. In ansvver to John Horwood his letter, and E.B. his book, called, A just and lawful tryal of the ministers and teachers of this age, and several others. Proving the ministers calling and maintenance just and lawful, and the doctrine of perfection by free justification, preached by them, agreeable to the scriptures. VVith the Quakers objections answered. And the Quakers perfection by hearkning to, and obeying a light within them, proved contrary to the scriptures. And their practices in ten particulars proved contrary to the commands and examples of Christ and his apostles. By a lover of gospel ministers and gospel ordinances. Gaskin, John, fl. 1660. 1660 (1660) Wing G290; ESTC R223664 109,852 161

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the Apostle In eating every one taketh before other his one Supper And one is hungry and another is drunken What have ye not houses to eat and to drink in or despise ye the Church of God By which it seemeth by the way that the place where the Corinthians met was not a house but some place set apart for them to meet in But what did the Apostle order and appoint in that case did he say you Corinthians have so abused this Supper that I command you not to use it any longer No the Apostle was no Quaker for he exorteth them and instructeth them how to reform these abuses and how to receive the Supper of the Lord aright and that he doth First by laying down Christs institution and command unto him for the use of that ordinance And secondly sheweth the great danger of unworthy receiving Thirdly directeth them how to receive the same aright But let a man examine himself and so let him eat of that bread and drink of that Cup. As if the Apostle had said though there be such danger in unworthy receiving yet would I not have you neglect the same But examine your selves and so come And in the end of the chapter tells them that The rest I will set in order when I come But you Quakers will have no order And as this was the practise of Christ and his Apostles so hath it been the practise of all reformed Churches since the Apostles days You Quakers are alone in this practise and woe be to him that is alone and a woe be to them who are so wise in their own conceipt as to think themselves wiser then Christ and his Apostles and all the Churches of Christ ever since the Apostles days which I leave to your serious consideration and be your own Judges whether you be perfect who walk so contrary to the command and example of Christ and his Apostles Seeing the Apostle exhorteth Be ye followers of me as I am of Christ And so I come to a third particular wherein your Practise is contrary to the example and Practise of Christ and his Apostles and all reformed Churches The third particular is your different practise from Christ and his Apostles in singing of Psalms Wherefore I shall lay down this for a truth That singging of Psalms with a Voyce is a part of Gods worship now in the days of the New Testament as well as in the days of the old For proof whereof take the example of Christ and his Apostles Who sang a Psalm or Hymme together after the administration of the Lords Supper which was a time of Sorrow and Heavinesse for Christ had newly told them before of his being betrayed and the time of his suffering was neer at hand and yet they sang a Psalm together which surely was for our example also the Apostle Paul and Silas being in prison Sang praises unto God also the Apostle Paul instructeth and exhorteth the Ephesians to speak one to another in Psalms and Hymnes and spiritual Songs and so to the Colossians Teaching and admonishing one another in Psalms and Hymnes and spiritual Songs Also the Apostle commandeth the Corinthians that such as sing in the Church should not only sing in the Spirit but with understanding Also those who sang when they had gotten Victory over the Beast are said to sing the Song of Moses and the Lamb by which it seemeth that the Song of Moses did suit with that deliverance But it is objected by you and others that these were not the Psalms of David but some other Hymnes or spiritual Songs immediately inspired which you like well and sometimes perswade your selves that you have such inspirations and fall a singing meer non-sense which edifies neither your selves nor others Wherefore I shall shew that all these three Titles are given to David's Psalms some are called Psalms some are called Hymnes some are called Songs that is spiritual Songs The Prophet David hath given these titles or names to them To the chief Musician a Psalm of David also a Psalm and Song at the dedication of the house of David To the chief Musician for the sons of Korah a Song upon Alamoth Now what reason can be given why the Apostle should direct us in our singing to the very Titles of David's Psalms if it were not his meaning that we should sing them so that you must exclude the Psalms of David from the name of Psalms and Hymnes and spiritual Songs or else you must be forced to acknowledge that we are exhorted to sing them as well as any other Is it not better to sing those Psalms or Hymns of David which we know to be indited by an infallible Inspiration of the spirit then to sing such Songs or Hymns as men invent of their private spirits or pretend to be immediately inspired by the spirit which appears to be their own fancies by the distractions and contradictions that are in them Doe you not think that Christ was better able to indite and sing new Psalmes or Hymnes then you Quakers and yet we have not the least intimation in Scripture of any new Psalm or Hymne indited or sung by Christ and his Apostles after the Lords Supper which certainly would have been recorded by the Evangelist who records far less matters in things which pertain to Gods Worship And it is supposed that Christ did sing with his Apostles one of these Psalms appointed or used to be sung at the end of the Passover and some affirm that it was the 118 Psalm which Christ did sing I confess by the suitableness of the Psalm to the occasion there may be some probability but I think no certainty But our Psalmes are not the same in meeter nor the same tunes which the Jews had That seeing the singing of Psalmes is a dutie commanded and amongst others those of David and hath hid from us the Hebrew tunes wherewith the Psalms of David were wont to be sung it must needs follow that the Lord hath left it to the libertie of the Church to sing them in such plain grave tunes as may fit the solemnitie of Gods Worship and that because that tunes are but circumstantial and not the substance and the Church now in the dayes of the Gospel is not in her minoritie or young age but in her man-age or full grown age as the Apostle speaketh and therefore fitter to appoint circumstantial things in Gods Worship then the Jews being in their non-age But Davids Psalmes are to be sung with Davids Spirit or the same Spirit which David had but in your Churches wicked persons sing that have not the Spirit That the whole congregation of the Church of the Jews did sing the Psalms of David and do you think that all those among the Jews that sung Davids Psalms had the same Spirit which David had in composing of them Though Spiritual gifts are necessary to make melodie unto the Lord in singing yet are they not the onely cause and ground of singing but the chief ground is the moral dutie lying
upon all men by the commandment of God If any be merry let them sing Psalms now wicked men are merry as well as godly though they have no true cause All men in general are by the commandment of God and by the light of nature taught to pray to God for his blessings and to praise him for his mercies although I know you Quakers say and maintain the contrary having several times heard you affirm it But I shall make good what I have written by Scripture that it is a dutie incumbent to all good and bad to pray unto God for his blessings Is any afflicted let him pray is any merry let him sing Psalmes Also the Lord hath given a general Commandment to all men upon earth Sing unto the Lord all the Earth make a joyfull noise unto the Lord all the Lands come before his presence with singing Sing unto the Lord all the Kingdoms of the earth O sing praises unto the Lord. Now by all the Earth all the Lands all the Kingdomes of the Earth is to be understood all the People of the Earth Lands and Kingdomes and surely all are not Saints in them The Lord is a great God and a great King above all gods and therefore make a joyfull noise to him with Psalmes he is to be feared above all gods and therefore sing unto him all the earth So that Gods greatness and goodness in his works of creation and providence that concerneth all the sons of men in general are grounds of prayer and praises The Lord giveth food to all flesh therefore let all flesh bless his holy Name Let every thing that hath breath wicked men have breath praise the Lord for his mightie Acts and for his exceeding greatness and let us call upon him and praise him for it is he that made us and not we our selves Now God made all men the wicked as well as the godly and therefore they are bound to pray to God and praise God as well as the godly and therefore the Lord threatneth that he will poure out his wrath upon the Heathens and all the Families that call not on his Name What then shall become of you Quakers that not onely neglect this Dutie of Prayer and Praysing God in your Families but sit down to meat and rise from it more like Swine then Christians But you teach men so to do telling them that it is a sin and so teach men to sin while you teach them to disobey Gods cōmand The Heathen that were in the ship with Jonah may rise in judgement against you for they by the light of Nature knew that God was to be prayed unto and the Heathen Nincvites repented proclaimed a fast and surely prayed as well as fasted and God repented of the evil that he had said he would doe unto them Also wicked Ahab when he humbled himself before the Lord by fasting and prayer the Lord said to Eliah Seest thou how Ahab humbleth himself before me I will not bring this evil in his dayes But you Object That the Prayers of the wicked are an abomination unto the Lord and so their Praises for what hast thou to do to take my Name in thy mouth and hatest to be reformed I answer That it is said also by the same Prophet That the plowing of the plow-man is sin and it is a truth that the eating and drinking of every man out of Christ is sin Will you therefore say that wicked men ought not to plow I fear then we should want corn and if wicked men should refrain from eating and drinking would they not strave and would not they then be guiltie of their own death and so be self murtherers But you must learn to distinguish between Actions morally good and divinely good and between actions civilly good in themselves and divinely good Now to plow or do any other action or work of a mans calling are good civill morall works in themselves and yet the person doing them being not justified they are not good unto him because Whatsoever is not of faith is sin will you therefore teach that no wicked man ought to doe the works of his calling nor eat nor drink because they are sin to him in doing them The reason is the same in morall works to hear read pray sing Psalmes and giving of thanks they are works morally good being commanded by the Lord but the person doing them being not justified they are not good to him but yet ye may no more neglect these duties then the civil duties of your calling For if a wicked man neglect these morall duties he sinneth more then in doing of them for in doing of them he may have a temporary good as Ahab and the Ninevites and we read that when the young man in the Gospel said to Christ All these have I kept from my youth that Jesus beholding him loved him so that Christ did shew his liking and approving of those moral works which he said he had done Wherefore to conclude this answer I believe that although a wicked man cannot be saved by his doing works morally good in themselves yet he shall have less torment in Hell then those that do them not For he that knoweth his Masters will and doth it not shall be beaten with many stripes I have made a little digression in answering these Objections because I desire to take in all your Objections by the way and answer them hoping you will not be offended seeing your selves are often guilty of the same fault if it be a fault I aim onely at your good to rectifie your judgements But you Object That in our Assemblies many sing they know not what and many do know that they sing many of the Psalmes that are not sutable to their condition nor sutable to the time and season as when they sing O Lord I am not puft in mind they being proud and My hearts desire is bent thy Laws to keep when their hearts is against the Law This I have heard some of you often object unto me and others against singing of Psalmes That the ignorance of men in discerning the true matter or the right manner of a duty doth not exempt them from performing of their duty for if a man know not what to pray nor how yet that will not excuse him either from praying himself or from joyning with others that are better acquainted with Prayer then himself So what if many a man know not what to sing nor how to sing to Gods praise yet that will not excuse him either from singing himself or joyning with others that have more spiritual skill in that kind then himself That none are compelled to joyn in singing any Psalm in or with the
Congregation and if any through ignorance doe sing that which is not sutable to their condition may not or must not others in the same congregation sing those things that are sutable to their condition That the Psalmes to be read by such is no sin unless you count reading the Scripture to be sinne and why may they not as well sing them as read them seeing the one is a duty as well as the other they may sing them doctrinal as well as read them doctrinal as the truths contained in the Psalms and such may be convinced by singing them as wel as reading them as in the particulars objected O Lord I am not puft in mind may not a proud person be convinc'd that he ought not to be proud and when a wicked man singeth My heart is bent to keep thy Law may not he thereby be convinced and taught by that Doctrine that his heart ought to be bent to keep the Law That it is ignorance of a mans own condition and of the matter contained in the Psalmes to think or say that the Psalmes are not sutable to our conditions for every Psalm setteth forth either the Attributes and workes of God and his Christ or else describeth the estate and wayes of the Church and People of God or describeth the estate and wayes of the wicked or else it doth lively express mine own affections and afflictions temptations and comfort But whatsoever the matter of the Psalm concerneth either of God or his Christ the godly or the wicked my self or others the good or evil estate of one or other it ever ministreth fit matter and occasion to me of singing forth the prayses of the Lord since the name of God is to be blessed in and by all whether it goe well or ill with our selves or others and I believe that there is no condition the Church is or can be in in general nor no condition which any Member is or hath been in but there are Psalms sutable to the same and several Clerks are able to chuse such Psalms as are fit and sutable for all times and for all states and conditions of the Church and sutable for all Ordinances and sutable to all Doctrines And lastly the general practice of the Churches of Christ is to me a thing much to be considered and that it was the practice of the Churches of Christ after the Apostles dayes several Histories do testifie as Mr. Cotton doth largely prove in his book written in defence of this Ordinance of singing of Psalmes against the Antipsalmist But you follow the Papists your Fathers who are as great enemies to singing of Davids Psalmes as your selves and I could wish that some Protestants were not too much tainted with that Opinion The Papist in contempt of singing of Psalmes call them Genevah Jigs as you Quakers and other Sectaries the brood of Antichrist scoff at our Ministers and people for singing of Psalmes calling them Hopkins Jigs But I hope I have sufficiently proved that we follow the example of Christ and his Apostles and all reformed Churches and that you do sin in not following the command and example of Christ and his Apostles and therefore are not perfect and so I pass from this particular in which I have been the longer in regard I have been so often opposed by you for practising this duty And now I come to a fourth particular in which you walk contrary to the rule of the Scripture and that is your practice in suffering and maintaining women to teach in your meetings which you call your Church Now this practice I have not only heard of but am an eye and ear witness of having heard two several women speak and teach in your meetings where I heard them speak such nonsensical erronious stuff that it is a shame to write it And this practice is justified and maintained in Print by one of their chief teachers Richard Fanworth for so he saith is his name in the flesh who hath written a Pamphlet called A woman forbidden to speak in the Church the Grounds examined the Mystery opened the Truth cleared and the Ignorance both of Priests and People discovered where by the way take notice that where ever the letter of the Text doth speak directly against your errors then you say there is a Mystery in it and that none can open but your selves But where the Letter of the Scripture seemeth to speak for your errours then you say away with your mystical meanings the Scripture is to be understood as they speak according to the Letter which I have often heard from your own mouths and read in your books Wherefore I shall indeavour to prove Mr. Fanworths Mystery opened to be the mystery of iniquity proceeding from the spirit of Antichrist being directly against the Doctrine of Christ contained in the Scripture For saith the Apostle Paul to the Corinthians Let your women keep silence in the Churches for it is not permitted unto them to speak but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the Law And if they will learn any thing let them aske their husbands at home for it is a shame for women to speak in the Church also the Apostle to Timothy Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection But I suffer not a woman to teach nor to usurp authority over the man but to be in silence Object But you Quakers say that there is a mystical meaning which none know but your selves And that is that by the woman is meant the flesh and by the speaking is meant the Spirit which is in the Saints and that may speak in the Church whether in man or woman male or female this Farnworth writeth in opening the Mystery Also Sarah Blackbury when I alledged the Apostles words to her in William Bonds House after she had been three or four hours there a teaching or prating on the Lords day she made me this Answer thou art the woman for thou art Flesh that is weak and therefore thou art to keep silence and I may speak because I have the Spirit by which the Scripture was written but thou hast not the Spirit and therefore hold thy babling for thou knowest not the meaning of the Scripture To which I replied but what is meant by the Husbands that the women are to learn of and to ask them at home To which Susan Bond answered Christ was the Husband and of him they were to be taught and Sarah Blackbery seemed to like the Answer well for she made no exceptions against it neither can she nor any one else if their doctrine be true that they all have an infallible Spirit and cannot erre else they cannot be perfect for error is sin and I shall prove this to be an error when I have taken away the false Vizzard which you have put upon the these Texts of Scripture Wherefore to shew you your error I shall shew you the great