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A63637 The true Protestant religion set forth by way of dialogue discovering the idolatries and abominations professed and taught in the Church of Rome / by a Presbyter of the Church of England. Presbyter of the Church of England. 1683 (1683) Wing T2864; ESTC R4661 28,790 38

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and they ring a Bell to give the People notice of it that they may adore it If any of the People receive which is very seldome they must not touch it with their hands but the Priest must put it into their mouths and there it must dissolve These and many other such like Ceremonies are made Articles of Faith Child But did Christ ordain none of those Rites Father No. John came baptizing with Water John 1.31 The Eunuch said to Philip here is water what doth hinder me to be baptized Acts 8.36 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered to you saith St. Paul 1 Cor. 11.25 That the Lord Jesus the same night that he was betray'd took Bread and when he had given thanks he brake it and said Take eat this is my Body which is broken for you this do in remembrance of me They do neither break the Bread nor suffer the People to take or eat it Child I have heard enough of this I pray Sir proceed to the fifth Father I also embrace and receive all and several the things which have been defined and declared in the Sacred and holy Synod of Trent concerning Original Sin and Justification Child What Doctrines do they hold concerning Original Sin and Justification Father The things declared and defined by the Councel of Trent concerning Original Sin and Justification are too many to be here recited They teach that Concupiscence is no sin after Regeneration that 't is washed away by Baptism That the first motions thereof is no sin Concerning Justification they declare that we are Justified by Works that good Works are meritorious nay that there be Works of supererogation whereby the Saints do merit not onely for themselves but for others and out of the superabundant Merits of Christ and the Saints the Treasure of the Church is made up which the Pope hath power to dispence to vvhom he please vvhich brings him in great Treasure Child But what doth the Scripture say to these things Father David confesseth his Original Sin as the Root and Fountain of all Sin Psal 51.5 Behold I was shapen in iniquity and in sin did my Mother conceive me And St. Paul complains of it Rom. 7.18 I know that in me that is in my flesh dwelleth no good thing for to vvill is present vvith me but hovv to perform that vvhich is good I knovv not Child But are we not justified by our Works Father No Child We are justified freely by his Grace through the Redemption that is in Jesus Christ Rom. 3.24 v. 27.28 Where is boasting then it is excluded by what Law of Works Nay but by the Law of Faith Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by Faith without the Deeds of the Law Child If we are not justified by Works then certainly we cannot merit by them Father You say well and the same Christ teaches us in the Gospel Luke 17.10 When you shall have done all those things that are commanded you say We are unprofitable Servants we have done that which was our duty to do Child What is the sixth Article Father I also profess that in the Mass there is offered to God a true proper and propitiatory Sacrifice for the Living and the Dead and that in the most holy Sacrament of the Eucharist is contained truly really and substantially the Body and Blood together with the Soul and Divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ and there is made a perfect Change of the whole substance of the Bread into his Body and of the whole Substance of the Wine into his Blood which change the Catholick Church calleth Transubstantiation Child In this Article are many things that I would be glad to understand 1. What I pray Sir is meant by the Mass Father 'T is an old word that few understand the word Missa some say did signifie to dismiss some out of the Assembly even all that did not communicate which if it should do so still would leave the Priest alone for now he usually communicates by himself and the People look on But I rather think 't is call'd the Mass because 't is a mess or mass of Corruption Child But why is is call'd a Sacrifice for the Living and the Dead I thought Sacrifice had ceased Father True Child so the Apostle Heb. 9.28 Christ was once offer'd to bear the Sins of many and Chap. 10.12 But this man after he had offer'd one Sacrifice for Sins for ever sate down on the right hand of God and verse 14. By one Offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified It may be call'd a Sacrifice because it is a Representation and Memorial of the true Sacrifice of Christ on the Cross and because it makes us Partakers of the same but no otherwise as I know of Child But is is the Bread and Wine changed into the Body and Blood of Christ Father No Child certainly if it were we should see it with our Eyes and handle it with our hands and smell it and tast it so to be but we see it and handle it and smell it and tast it Bread and Wine and therefore no doubt so it is After this manner St. John writes That which was from the Beginning which we have heard which we have seen with our Eyes which we have looked upon and our hands have handled of the word of Life 1 Joh. 1.1 and ver 3. That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you that you may have Fellowship with 〈◊〉 Child But what doth the Scripture call it Father The Scripture after Consecration calls it Bread three times together 1 Cor. 11.26.27.28 For as often as ye eat this Bread and drink this Cup ye do shew the Lords Death till he come Wherefore whosoever shall eat this Bread and drink this Cup of the Lord unworthily shall be guilty of the Body and Blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself and so let him eat of that Bread and drink of that Cup. Child But is it plain Bread and Wine and no more Father O no! God by these Signs of Bread and Wine signifieth sealeth and exhibiteth to every faithful Receiver the Body and Blood of Christ and all the merits of his Death and Passion So the Apostle 1 Cor. 10.16 The Cup of Blessing which we bless is it not the Communion of the Blood of Christ the Bread which we break is it not the Communion of the Body of Christ Child But what is this they call Transubstantiation Father The word signifies the Change of one Substance into another and thereby they express their Doctrine of the corporal Presence but neither the word nor thing is to be found in Scripture nor in the Writings of the primitive Fathers neither was it pretended to be an Article of Faith till the Lateran Counsel 1200 years after Christ and therefore we protest against it and say that what the Church of Rome teaches of Transubstantiation is absolutely impossible and
pray Sir what do we Protestants hold concerning the Law Father We hold that the moral Law commands the perfection of Godliness and Righteousness and directs us in our duties to God and Man Ye shall observe to do therefore as the Lord your God hath commanded you you shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left Deut. 5.32 Child I pray Sir proceed now to the Commandments in particular as they were delivered by Moses and shew me first what we Protestants teach and then what the Church of Rome teaches concerning them Father I shall do it readily The first Commandment is Thou shalt have no other Gods before me and our Protestant Doctors teach that this Jehovah one in Substance and three in Persons the Creator and Governour of all things and the Redeemer of his People is to be entertained for the only true God in all the powers of the Soul and so Christ opens it Matt. 22.37 Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy Heart and with all thy Soul and with all thy Mind Child Doth not the Church of Rome expound it so Father No. The Church of Rome teaches to make more Gods than one they pray to the Saints whereby they make them Gods in giving this Divine Property unto them to know the Heart They call the Virgin Mary Queen of Heaven and say she is a Goddess and pray to her to command her Son to help them Nay they make the Pope a God they call him Our Lord God the Pope and they are more careful to obey his commands than the commands of God Child What is the meaning of the second Command Thou shalt not make to thy self any graven Image nor any Likeness of things in Heaven c. Father The meaning of this Commandment is to bind all men to that solemn Form of religious Worship which God himself in his Word prescribeth that we serve him not according to our Fancies but according to his Will What thing soever I command you observe to do it thou shalt not add thereto nor diminish from it Deut. 12.32 Child How do the Papists expound this Command Father They leave it quite out of their Catechisms because 't is so plain against their Image-worship and they divide the tenth into two to make up the number Child What Worship do they give to Images Father The same Worship they give to those whose Image it is as they worship the holy Trinity and Christ so they worship the Images of the Trinity and of Christ Child Did not the Heathens thus worship their Images Father Yes The Papists say they worship their Images with a relative Worship and so did the Heathens and indeed an Image cannot be worshipped with any other Worship Nor does the commandment forbid any other Worship for it is a contradiction to say this is the Image of God and yet this is God and therefore it must be also a contradiction to worship an Image with any other Worship for then it must be that the Image of a thing is that thing whose Image it is But they go yet a little farther the Image of the Cross they worship with divine Honour and though this divine Worship is but relative yet the Cross it self is worshipped terminatively with divine Adoration now if this be not Idolatry I can never be told what is the notion of the word If there can be Idolatry in the Worship of an Image it is certain that a relative divine Worship is this Idolatry for no man that worships an Image can make the Image the last Object either therefore the Heathens were not Idolaters in the worshiping of an Image or else these men are Child What is the sum of the third Command Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord c. Father The Sum of this Command is That we impeach not but by all means advance the glorious name of God in all things whereby he maketh himself known to men Give unto the Lord the Glory due unto his Name worship the Lord in the beauty of Holiness Psal 29.2 Child How do the Papists keep this Command Father They teach that 't is lawful to swear by the Saints and in their common talk they cry out O Lord O Jesu They use the Word Jesu thirty times together and this they take for a peice of Devotion And the Pope dispenseth with all Oaths at his pleasure and teaches that Faith is not to be kept with Hereticks Child What is the meaning of the fourth Command Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day Father It challengeth at the hand of every man one day of seven in every Week and requireth all Persons to separate themselves from their ordinary Labour and all other Exercises that they may attend to the worship of God only Child How do the Papists expound this Command Father They make the Popes Holy dayes equal with the Lords Sabbath and they are more zealous for the Observation of them for they will be sure to keep them but the Sabbath they usually spend in playing at Cards Dice and Tables Child What is the meaning of the fifth Command Honour thy Father and thy Mother c. Father That the Quality of mens Persons and Places in what Estate soever Natural Civil or Ecclesiastical be truly acknowledged and respected for it requires the Performance of all such Duties as one man oweth unto another Render to all their dues Tribute to whom Tribute is due Custom to whom Custom Fear to whom Fear Honour to whom honour Rom. 13.7 Child How do the Papists keep this Commandment Father They disannul it in giving freedom and immunity to to their Clergy from subjection to Civil Authority and in dispensing with Subjects for their Loyalty and Allegiance to their Lawful Princes and with Children and Servants from yielding due help service and obedience to their Parents and Masters Child What is the summe and meaning of the sixth Commandment Thou shalt not murder Father That the Life and Person of man be by man not impeached but preserved Surely the Bloud of your Lives will I require At the hand of every mans Brother will I require the Life of man Gen. 9.5 Child How do the Papists keep this Commandment Father They have Houses of Refuge which they call Sanctuaries wherein Murderers live in Safety They hold it meritorious to poyson or stab any man for the advancement of the Catholick Cause and 't is a Position with them though a damnable one That Princes excommunicate by the Pope may be murdered by their Subjects Child What is the meaning of the seventh Commandment Thou shalt not commit Adultery Father That all Uncleanness and Impurity be avoided and Chastity by all means preserved Having these Promises let us cleanse our selves from all filthiness of the Flesh and Spirit perfecting holiness in the Fear of God 2 Cor. 7.1 Child How do the Papists keep this Command Father They give Divorces for Marriages in the fourth degree and