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A19658 A deliberat answere made to a rash offer, which a popish Antichristian catholique, made to a learned protestant (as he saieth) and caused to be publyshed in printe: Anno. Do[mini] 1575 Wherein the Protestant hath plainly [and] substantially prooued, that the papists that doo nowe call themselues Catholiques are in deed antichristian schismatiks; and that the religious protestants, are in deed the right Catholiques: VVriten by Robert Crowley: in the yeere, 1587. Crowley, Robert, 1518?-1588. 1588 (1588) STC 6084; ESTC S110998 131,595 191

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not his sonne Ezechias And did not the same Ezechias brake the brasen Serpent 4. Reg. 18. bicause the people had burned Incense to it Yea and when the Priestes did any thing in the reformation of Religion did they it not by the appointment and at the commaundement of those good kings Dauid Salomon Ezechias and Iosias Reade the History of the kings and you shall sée And what did Christ come to take this Authority from Princes And hath hée taken it from them and giuen it to Peter and his Successors Hée him selfe hath acknowledged that authority in Princes in that hée payde Tribute to the Emperour both for him selfe and for Peter Math. 17. In the 13. Chapter to the Romaines Math 17. saint Paule declareth that the paying of Tribute is an acknowledging of the highest authority in Princes Chrysostome Chrysost in Rom. 13. expounding that place of Saint Paules Epistle writeth thus Cur enim inquit vectigalia Regi damus Nunquid tanquam prospicienti Nunquid tanquam praesidenti curae tuitionisque mercedem soluentes For why saith hée doo wée giue Tribute to the king Doo wée not giue it as vnto him that hath a prouident care for vs Doo wée it not as men that pay vnto him that hath the rule of vs the wages or hyer that is due to him for the care that hée hath to defend vs 1 Peter 2 And dooth not Saint Peter from whom your Bishops and Priests doo claime their high authority write thus in the second Chapter of his first Epistle Subdite igitur estote c. Bée yée subiect therefore to euery humaine creature euen for the Lords cause whether it be to the king as to him that excelleth either to Dukes as to them that are sent of him for the punishment of euill dooers but for ●he praise of them that bée good For so is the will of God that behauing your selues well you may stop the mouthes of foolish and Ignoraunt men as being free and not hauing the liberty for a cloke of maliciousnes but as the seruants of God Thus if you haue eyes to sée you may sée that the very testimonies that you haue alleaged being taken in their right sence doo prooue sufficiently that though no learned Protestant can prooue or dooth or hath affirmed that our Sauiour Christ did commit the chiefe charge and supreme gouernmēt of his Chruch to Emperors kings c. Yet the chiefe charge sepreme gouernment of men of all sorts hath bin alwaies is still and euer shal be in such Potentats euen by the ordinance of God him selfe as by the other testimonies that I haue alleaged dooth most manifestly appeare And where as you require the learned Protestant to prooue that any one of Christes Apostles or Disciples did by preaching the Protestants doctrine conuert any people lande or countrey from their Idolatry and Ethnike kinde of liuing to Christian faith and Religion as of onely faith to iustifie c. I say that neuer any one of the Apostles or Disciples of Christ were the meanes that God vsed in the conuerting of any one lande people or countrey by the preaching of any other doctrine then that which you call the Protestants doctrine You note sixe points of doctrine preached by the Protestants which as you say neither the Apostles nor any Disciple of Christ preached First that faith onely iustifieth Secondly that all good works are vncleane in the sight of God Thirdly that there is no frée will Fourthly that the body of Christ is not really present in the Eucharist Fiftly that the blessed Masse is not a Sacrifice And sixtly the abolishing of Christes Sacraments and all the graces and goodnes that is conferred to vs by them For the first I say that Christ him selfe hath taught it in that hée hath sayd thus Mar. 16. Qui crediderit baptizatus fuerit saluus erit Qui vere non crediderit co●demnabitur Marci 16 Hée that shall belieue and bée baptized shal be saued But hée that shall not belieue shal be condemned Saint Paule hath taught it to the Romaines Chap. 5. Rom. 5. in these woords Justificati ergo ex fide pacem habeamus ad Deum per Dominum nostrum Iesum Christum per quem habemus accessum per fidem in gratiam istam in qua stamus gloriamar in spe gloriae filiorum Dei. Being iustified by faith therefore let vs bee at peace with God through our Lord Iesus Christ by whom wée haue accesse through faith into this grace wherein wée stand and doo reioyce in the hope of the glorie of the children of God To take from you all occasion of quarrelling I haue cited the words of S. Paule as I finde them in your allowed latine translation Although I doo know that in the gréeke it is thus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Pacem habemus And not habeamus Wée haue peace and let vs not haue peace but to a simple meaning minde the sence is all one whether wée say wee haue peace or let vs haue peace And in the end of the sentence it maketh no difference to say wée glory or reioyce in the hope of the sonnes of God or wee reioyce in the hope of the glory of God For take it which way yee will Saint Paules meaning must néedes bée that wée are iustified that is wée apprehend and lay hold vpon frée discharge of our sinnes that wée haue by the mediation of Christ onely by faith and by none other meane And againe in the second Chapter to the Ephesians Ephe. 2. Saint Paule writeth thus Gratia enim estis saluati per fidem hoc non ex vobis Dei enim d●num est non ex operibus ne quis glorietur For by grace that is frée mercy you are saued thorough faith and that not 〈…〉 selues For it is the gifte of God and commeth not of workes least any man should boaste The Epistles of the Apostle Paule are full of matter to prooue this pointe of doctrine to bee true The second pointe of doctrine is as you doo terme it the contempt of good workes and that they bee all vncleane in the sight of God Wee contemne not good workes but wée esteeme of them as they ought to bee esteemed of that is as of the good fruites of a good faith And wée teach that no workes may bée accounted good otherwise or in any other respect but as they bée the fruits of a good faith This point of doctrine was taught by our sauiour Christ when hée sayd thus Lucae 17. Cum feceritis omnia quae praecepta sunt vobis Lucae 17. dicite serui inutiles sumus Quod de buimus facere fecimus When yee shall haue doone all that you are commaunded to doo then say we are vnprofitable seruants We haue doone that our duety was to doo And againe in the 20. of Mathew Math. 20. in the Parable of the labourers that laboured in the Vineyarde Volo autem
those workes that our Lord the hath made vs redéemed vs consecrated vs to his own seruice hath prepared for vs to walke in As for workes diuised by men wee esteeme of them as wee finde them If wee sée that they bend to the setting foorth of Gods glory in our edification wee vse them otherwise wee refuse them But the workes that God hath commaunded wee are carefull to doo And when by the infirmitie and corruption of our nature wee stumble and fall wée crie vnto our mercifull father for help as being assured that hee heareth vs and in tender affection towards vs will help vs yea though hee doo for a time suffer vs to lie vnder that too too heauie burthen of sinne vnder which wée are fallen by infirmitie Wee seeke not to our fellow seruants as to Angels or men much lesse to Antichrist the professed enimie of our Christ and sauiour Wee trust not in our owne strength nor in any merites that may bée in vs but wée trust in our God and our onely sauiour Iesus Christ And when wee haue walked vpright and haue done that which wee are commaunded to doo wee say as our Sauiour hath taught vs to say wee are vnprofitable bond slaues wee haue done nothing but that which of duetie wee ought to doo But now let vs sée the second offer that our Offerer maketh The second offer The Offerer Second Christ his Catholique Church being on this wise planted by the Apostles and Disciples of Christ by Bishops and Priests the successors of them had at all times a speciall care and regarde not onely of preaching Gods word but also of the preseruation of the same woord and gospell by writing of the sacred Bible and holy scriptures and did discerne and iudge them from all other writings prophane or authentique of all sortes What Church hath had from time to time the custodie of the sacred scriptures and most safely hath preserued them for the necessarie foode of Gods people and from the corruption of the aduersaries as well Iewes and Gentiles as schismatikes and heretikes of all sorts but onely the common knowne Catholiqu● Church of Christ When therefore the learned Protestants shal be able to bring proofe to the contrarie that their priuate conuenticles and Congregations were the first bringers forth of this sacred Bible and word of God written the chiefe preseruers and defenders of the same in all times and ages from all Iewes Gentiles betikes and schismatikes then will I as I sayd before reuolt and recant Crowley In this his second Offer the Offerer vseth a fallace or disceit which in reasoning is called Petitio principij That is hee laboureth to confirme his assertion wherein there is no certenty by that wherein there is as litle or lesse certenty then in that assertion that hee holdeth And yet hee setteth a face vpon it as though nothing were or could bee more certaine then both the assertion and that whereby hée would prooue it bee His assertion is that the Church of Rome which he calleth Catholique is and euer hath bin from time to time the conseruer and kéeper of the sacred scriptures and this hee would prooue by another like assertion that is that the same Church was the first Preacher and Writer of the same scripture which hée calleth the sacred Bible and holy scriptures When the vnlearned Reader considereth this assertion hée is brought into such a maze that hee knoweth not which way to take For this Offerer would beare him in hand that the sacred Bible which containeth those bookes that are called the old Testament were neuer written before the church which he calleth Catholike did take in hād to write them Where as in very déede some of those bookes were written before the first foundation of Rome was layde Yea hee would that men should thinke that that Romish Church which hée calleth Catholique is the same that was first planted amongst the Nations of the worlde by the preaching of the gospell amongst them Which preaching began at Hierusalem sprang from thence as from a most plentifull Fountaine and was by the labour and trauell of the Apostles and Disciples of our sauiour Christ in preaching the gospell speedily spred ouer all the worlde And that it was this Romish Church that did first wryte the Gospels and other bookes of the new Testament and hath discerned of those bookes that are accounted for holy scripture and hath seuered them from all other writinges what so euer and hath preserued them from all corruption c. But such as bee learned doo know that all the bookes of the old Testament commonly called the Bible were written before the Incarnation of our sauiour Christ and therefore before any such Church as this Offerer imagineth the Romish Catholique Church to bée could haue any being Our Sauiour him selfe hath sayd Iohn 5. Iohn 5. Scrutamini scripturas c. Serch the Scriptures for you think to haue euerlasting life in them And those scriptures bée they that doo giue testimonie of mee And againe the Euangelist Luke saith thus Chapt. 24. Et incipiens a Mose Luc 24. omnibus Prophetis c. And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets hee did interpret vnto them all the scriptures which were written concerning him Saint Peter also saith thus Act. 3. Act 3. Et omnes Prophetae a Samuele c. And all the Prophets from Samuel forward euen as many as haue spoken haue made mention of these daies yea and saint Paule in that Epistle that hée directed to those Romaines that were the first Christians in Rome Rom 15. wryteth thus Quaecunque en●m scripta sunt c. What so euer things haue bin setdowne in writing haue bin written for our learning that through patience and consolation of the scriptures wée might conceiue hope And to Timoth. 2. Timoth. 3. 2. Timot. 3. Saint Paule saith thus Omnis scriptura diuinitus inspirata vtilis est c. Euerie scripture giuen dy diuine inspiration is profitable for teaching for reproouing for rebuking for instructing c. By all these places of scripture it appeareth plainely that the sacred Bible was written before the Romish Catholique Church had hir beginning and therefore coulde not bée first written by that Church as this Offerer laboureth to perswade that it was Yea and the bookes of the new testament were written by the Euangelists and Apostles and not by any such Bishops and Priests as this Offerer would haue vs think to bée the immediate successors of the Apostles and Disciples of our sauiour Christ and to bée the Bishops Priests of the City of Rome For when saint Paule being in prison at Rome wrote his second Epistle to Timothie there were no such Bishops or Priestes there as might worthyly bee taken for Christians For thus dooth S. Paule write In prima mea defensione nemo mihi affuit c. In my first defence 2. Timot. 4. there was not one man that