Selected quad for the lemma: duty_n
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A32820
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The ivstification of the independant chvrches of Christ being an answer to Mr. Edvvards his booke, which hee hath written against the government of Christ's chvrch and toleration of Christs, publike worship : briefely declaring that the congregations of the saints ought not to have dependancie in government upon any other : or direction in worship from any other than Christ their head and lavv-giver / by Katherine Chidley.
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Chidley, Katherine.
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1641
(1641)
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Wing C3832; ESTC R5068
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79,911
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92
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and not the Church by the Ministers The next thing to be considered in this your Reason is your peremptory affirmation but grounded upon no Scripture namely That to set up Independant and separated Churches is a Schisme in it selfe and that it will make great disturbance in the Church both to the outward peace and to the faith and conscience of the people of the Kingdome Now that it is a Schisme in it selfe I deny and prove the contrary thus God hath commanded all his people to separate themselves from all Idolatry c and false worshipping d and false worshippers e and therefore it is no Schisme except you will make God the Author of Schisme this is according to the Prophet Esaiahs words Esay 1. which is the first Lesson that every one ought to learne even to cease to doe evill But I hope it will not be denied but that they are to learne another lesson which is to learne to doe well but to doe well is to keepe all Gods Commandements and to obey God rather then men Now Gods commands to his people is that they learne to know the forme of the house as I have told you before and all the Ordinances of the house and to doe them Ezek. 43. 11. but the Ordinances of Christs Kingdome under the Gospell amongst the rest are Doctrine Fellowship breaking of Bread and Prayer which Ordinances the Saints continued stedfastly in and are commended for their constancie in the same Acts 2. 42 and that in every particular Church or Congregation though there were divers in one Nation and yet I hope you will not affirme it was any disturbance to the Nation otherwise thâ—n Christ hath shewed shall ever be that the seed of the Serpent shall persecute the seede of the Woman for Gods people are said to be a peaceable people and the Lord himself hath said that he hath set them in the world as Lambs among Wolves Now there must needs be a disagreement betweene Lambes and Wolves but the Lambes are not the cause thereof By this you may see that Separation is not a Scisme but obedience to Gods Commandement And for any Magistrate to give way for men to separate from the worship of the Kingdome established by Law if that worship be not according to Gods Law is the Magistrates duty and the Magistrate shall partake of no sinne in so doing because there is no sinne committed Therefore the Magistrate ought not to forbid the practise of Gods Worship when hee hath power to command it for he is set up for the practise of those that doe well and for the punishment of evill â—oers And therefore you did well when you admonished the Parliament in your Epistle to cast out of the way all stambling blockes and to breake downe all Images and Crucifixes and to throw downe all 〈◊〉 and remove the High places and to breake to pieces the brazen Serpents which have beene so abused to Idolatry and Superstition So then you grant that much may be done as it seemeth by your speech and yet if there be not a full reformation even to the throwing downe of the High places it will prove a blemish to the reformers You say he that doth not forbid when he hath power he commands But I hope you doubt not but the Parliament hath power and therefore whatsoever they doe not forbid by your owne ground they have or doe command But in the Protestation they have not forbidden Gods Worship which is according to his Word but they have Protested and have injoyned others so to doe to maintaine and â—â—â—end the Protestant Religion expressed in the Doctrine of the Church of England against all Popery and Popish Innovations within this Realme c. And in the Interpretation of their meaning of the said Oath they binde us neither to the â—â—t forme of Worship Discipline or Government nor any Rites or Ceremonies of the said Church of England Now if we must withstand Popery and Popish Innovations then we must needs withstand such dependencie as makes up a whole Nation a Church both good and bad without separating the precious from the vile and also such Synods or Counsels that decree and make Lawes and impose them upon any Church to keepe having not the Word of God to warrant them for these are Popish Innovations and to be withstood by us according to our Oath And truely Mr. Edwards you might have asked the independant Ministers a question in private for you knew where to finde them and not have propounded so silly a question before the Parliament when there was none there to answer you Your Question is Whether it be fitting that well meaning Christians should be suffered to goe to make Churches To this I Answer It is fitter for well meaning Christians than for ill-meaning Christians for well-meaning Christians be the fittest on the earth to make Churches and to choose their Officers whether they be Taylors Felt-makers Button-makers Tent-makers Shepherds or Ploughmen or what honest Trade soever if they are well-meaning Christians but ill-meaning Priests are very unfit men to make Churches because what they build up with one hand they pull downe with the other Futuher you seeme to feare the sâ—reading of Heresies if there be not a biâ—drance of these Assemblies But you should rather feare that your owne glory would be eclipsed by their gifts and graces for they are not men of so meane parts as you would make them but are able to divide the Word of God aright by the spirit that God hath given them Therefore I would wish you rather to let your heart bleed for your selfe and for the evills that you have done For Christ will never suffer any to perish for whom he died Thus much for your first Reason IN your second Reason you say the Toleration desired will not helpe to beale the Schismes and Rents of your Church To which I answer that if your Church be not the Church of Christ it will not heale it indeede for though the Prophets would have healed Babel it could not be healed You say that Ministers and people will not submit to the Reformation and Government setled by Law It is very like so if it be not free from Innovations of Popery because they are sworne to the contrary But you say many doubts will arise in the peoples mindes that the Government of your Church is not ordered according to the Word of God To this I answer If you meane the Church of Englands Government established by the Canon Law I thinke it is out of doubt with the most for they that understand but little doe see and know that that Government is vaine and Popish and that is the reason as I conceive why so many refuse to conforme to it and if you feare that that will prove so great a division you may doe well to counsell the Magistrates to expell all such Government and to reject all such Synods and
you Master Edwâ—rds would you have Magistrates and Kings and Princes to have more power over their subjects then over their bodies estates and lives would you have them be Lords over their consciences I pray you where must Christ reigne then Must he sit at the Magistrats footestoole and take what power the Magistrate will give him I meane spirituall power of gathering and making Churches and such Lawes as the Magistrate will give him leave to have to rule over them by Here you thrust Christ into a narrow corner for you would faine force him to give his glory to some other and his praise to some graven Image of your owne devising which he hath said he will not doe * But methinkes it were fitter for men of â—our coate to ground the Government of Christs Church upon 〈◊〉 written Word of God and not upon Statute Lawes nor Canon Lawes which you call Ecclesiasticall for it will be no disparagement to the Imperiall Crowne of this Realme for Christs Church to be governed by Christs owne Lawes The next thing is you say the Oath of Supremacie was appointed by Law for Ecclesiasticall persons to take Me thinkes that was a good consideration for Ecclesiasticall persons have beene in all ages ready to tyrannize over Kings and Emperours But now you aske the independant men as you call them a question but before you come to the question you lay downe an affirmation or a conclusion namely That these independant men give power to the Churches To which I answer If they should doe so they were very ignorant and very presumptuous for Christ hath given power to the Churches and all the Ministers that doe administer in the Churches must have the power by the Church But say you they give that power to the Churches which the Papists give unto the Pope I answer if they doe so they are blasphemers for the Papists acknowledge the Pope to be the head of the Church which title all men ought to give onely unto Christ But now to your question which is whether they will take the Oath of Supremacie or doe acknowledge in their prayers The King Defender of the Faith c. To which I answer This Ooth you say was ordained for Ecclesiasticall persons and I hope these Ecclesiasticall independant men if I may safely so call them will ever both acknowledge and maintaine that the King is supreme over all the Land therefore over the Church of the Land though it consist of the Clergie as it appeares by that Oath which you say was appointed for the Clergie But whether they doe acknowledge the King defender of the Faith c. which is the later part of your Question To this I answer It is out of all doubt that these men doe desire from their heart as well as all the Lords people that the King may defend the Faith of Christ Jesus and dayly make their prayers and supplications to God for him and that in conscience and obedience to God being commanded in his Word so to doe for they know it is a duty laid upon them for prayers and supplications must be made for Kings and all them that be in authoritie b but 〈◊〉 can make axceptable prayers but the Saints for the prayers of the wicked are abomination unto the Lord c But that all Kings have beene defenders of the Faith of Christ I deny for there is but one Faith * and those that do maintaine that true saith of our Lord Jesus Christ lawfully have that title given them and none other may lawfully have it but they You will happily say Queene Mary was not a Defender of the Faith But I say unto you if the Crowne of England give unto Kings and Queenes that title Queene Mary had as much right to the title as Queene Elizabeth c. Secondly you say they hold that the imposition of lawfull things doth make them unlawfull which you say is a strange paradoxe I answer the imposition of lawfull things doe not make them unlawfull if he that imposeth them have authoritie so to doe as for example the iâ—â—osition of an Oath is very lawfull but if it be imposed by him that hath not authoritie though it make not the Oath unlawfull simply in it selfe yet it makes the use of it unlawfull at that time both to him and to me But as for formes of prayer which you say they doe confesse to be for order and lawfull in themselves yet unlawfull being imposed I say not as you say they say for I know no forme of prayer lawfull in it selfe for any of the Lords people to tie themselves unto nor that ever was imposed upon any by Christ or his Apostles We reade in 1 Tim. 2. 1. 2. that all manner of prayers must be made unto God and amongst other supplications must be made for Kings but there was no forme of words given by which wee must pray for any and we are commanded to pray with the Spirit and to pray with understanding but we are commanded to avoid an evill manner of praying that we should not be like the Hipocrites which love to stand and pray in the Synogogues * nor that we should make vaine repititions as the Heathens which thinke to be heard for their much babling * and as also we are forbidden an evill manner of praying so wee are commanded by God what manner to use as it is plaine in Matth. 6. 9. The manner is that wee must in our prayers acknowledge God to be our Father And secondly That he is in heaven Thirdly we must give glory to his Name Fourthly we must pray for the coming of his Kingdome Fiftly we must pray that the Lords Will may be done both in earth and in heaven Sixthly wee must pray for all things necessary for this life which is there set forth under the name of dayly bread Seventhly wee must pray for the forgivenesse of our owne sinnes and we are also put in minde that as wee would have our owne sinnes forgiven so we should forgive others if they acknowledge their offences according to that in Luke 17 4 If thy brother trespasse against thee seven times a day and seven times a day end say it repenteth him c. Eightly we must pray against temptations to be delivered from the evills thereof And lastly we must conclude with thankesgiving acknowledging the Kingdome to be the Lords and all power and glory to be due unto him not onely for that present time but for ever Here you may see we are taught the manner how we ought to pray but we are tied to no forme of words yet we are to beleeve that this is a perfect Rule and that we may sufficiently ground all the petitions we neede to put up from this very rule As for Example As we desire to acknowledge God to be our Father so wee ought to desire that others would doe the like And whereas we ought