entrance vnto the Crowne as the visible Church in all ages from the beginning hath afforded Brownist They are not gathered in the name of Christ but in the name of Antichrist vvhom they obey as shall aftervvard appeare Therefore c. Ansvvere The Argument is this The true church is gathered in the name of Christ but the church of England is not c. Therefore not the true church The proposition is granted the Assumption is denied in asmuch as we do renounce the doctrine gouernment worship of Antichrist as shalbe shewed in the places where they labor to proue the contrary Brownist They vvorship not God truely but after a false and idolatrus manner as vvitnesseth their Popish liturgie their stinted booke of common praiers Therefore c. The Argument standeth this The true church worshipeth God truely but the church of England doth not Therefore it is no true church I grant the proposition yet with this caueat that not euery mēber of the visible church performeth this dutie and that the true worship of God offered vnto him by man thorough the frailtie of man is not without great wants The matter of the assumption hath bene dealt in pag. 21. And they receiue not nor obey not Christ as their king priest and prophet Therefore c. This argument is diuided into three seuerall parts in this manner Not as their king reiecting his gouernement and receiuing and standing vnder the antichristian yoke of their Popish gruernment Therefore c. The force of the reason is this The true church obeyeth Christ as her king and reteineth his gouernement but the church of England doth not Therefore no true church We are to remember that the question is of outward gouernment which hath bene shewed pag. 25. not to be the life of the church but the word onely Herevnto we ad their own confession that the true church may be vvithout sacraments which we hold as necessarie as outward gouernment But we are here charged with a double crime viz. with the casting of Christs gouernment and with the receiuing the yoke of Antichrist To the first whereof I answere that if pastors Doctors and Elders and Deacons be the gouernement of Christ we haue it in as much as the matter required in all these offices is retained with vs if these be abused by men it is not sufficient to proue that we haue them not at all if strife be about the changing of the names wise men will condemne it for follie To the second I answere that her maiestie is supreame gouernesse ouer vs in all causes both ecclesiasticall and ciuill and therefore hath authoritie to appoint such gouernors to confirme that gouernment which being not contrarie vnto Gods word shall seeme meete vnto hir Nowe this gouernement which we haue else where is shewed to haue bene for the preseruation of discipline and auoiding confusion before the time that Antichrist bare sway in the church I grant that afterward he abused it so did he many other matters and yet they are not to be counted Antichristian hauing not their beginning of him when they are restored vnto their first vse But this one calumniation bringeth foorth these fruites First in teaching that euery priuat man hath authority in the election of ecclesiasticall gouernors or else the gouernement is Antichristian the priuat man is taught to intrude into her highnesse right to whome this matter was granted by Act of Parlement 1. Eliz. 1. Againe in disswading from the obedience of this authority the cōmandement of God is made no commandement Ro. 13. 1. which willeth that euery soule be subiect vnto the higher powers And as Absolon with Dauid so do these men deale with her maiesty in seeking to alienate the harts of good subiects from her by crying out against her gouernment promising better things if they be harkned vnto that mē might be brought to ioyne in their rebellions We shun the Iesuites who from house to house do labour to draw the people into a loathing of their present estate this natiue schisme is so muche the more to bee looked vnto as it commeth with a greater shew of godlinesse and yet indeuoreth to worke confusion by these Iesuiticall proceedings Brownist Not as their Priest sacrilegiously prophaning his name vvith their idolatrie prostituting his blood and making him a Priest and sacrifice to infidels and the most vvicked offenders Ansvvere The Argument is thus The true church receiueth Christ as their Priest but the church of England doth not because it prophaneth his name c. Therefore no true church The assumtion is false for the doctrin of our church is that Christ is the onely Priest who by his owne blood entred in once into the holy place and obtained eternall redemption for vs and therefore that men should walke worthy of so holy a calling as Christ hath vouchsafed to set them in neither in their worshipping of God prophaning his name not by their vngodlinesse abusing his sacraments wherein the practise by our church commanded is that prophane vngodly men be repelled from the same It is not therfore a matter to be generally laid vnto the charge of the whole church that they prophane his name c. I grant indeed that the Pastor may thorow ignorance negligence or some other euill occasion deliuer the sactament to an vnworthy man which as it is a sinne in the receiuer so may it be as great a sinne in the deliuerer yet will this be a weake reason to conuince the whole church of prostituting the blood of Christ denying his priesthood prophaning his name c. seing that Iudas was partaker of the supper of the Lord and yet the whole companie were not polluted thereby Brownist Not as their prophet giuing no obedience to his vvord vsing it as a mantell to couer their sinne rather then as a rule vvherby to direct their liues not seeking a true ministerie but maintaining a false of vvhich sort the vvhole ministererie of the land is vvhich are permitted to teach in their publike places to vvhom they giue eare Ansvvere The Argument is this The true church receiueth Christ as her prophet but the church of England doth not c. Therefore c. The assumption of which argument they proue thus First because the church of England giueth no obedience to his word Secondly because they vse it as a mantle to couer their sinne and thirdlie because they seeke not a true ministerie but maintaine a false It hath heretofore bene granted that the best churches haue had some bad members in them whereof some in Athiesme despised the word others in hipocrisie made it a cloake to couer their vngodlinesse wherein the church of England goeth not scotfree but for the wickednes of some to condeme the whole were verie hard and so sharpely to censure all were intollerable Yet these men do it when they affirme that no obedience is giuen to the word as if all from the
beholde what then to enioy so blessed a communion But to begin withall the place of Salomon Can. 6. 4. 9. is much abused by the author whilest that it is applied to cōmēd the beutie of the church which is nothing else but blacknesse as the church her selfe acknowledgeth For wheras in the former chapter the church hath accused her selfe of negligence in not perfourming her dueties vnto her spouse And the daughters of Ierusalem comforting her she declared his nature and disposition the place of his abode c. whereby shee doeth aggreuate her former fault For quem beneficia accepta meliorem non reddunt is certe etiam grauius suppliuum commeretur Hee whome benefites receiued make not better doth deserue the more grieuous punishment And surely the greater the loue of Christ is to the church the greater is the sinne of the church in not performing dutie Novv in the former parte of this sixth chapter her beloued doth comfort her doth assure hir that she is as dere vnto him novv as euer before she had beene So then it is not the excellencie of the church that commendeth her but her spouse through his gracious fauor doth accept of her notvvithstanding her defects which she acknowledgeth To let this passe let vs consider the seuerall parts of this visible church Her King and Lord is the king of peace and Lord himself of al glory the sauior of Sion Esa. 62. 11. a king Iohn 12. 15. and one whose soueraigntie was figured in Melchizedek Heb. 7. 8. So that in regard of this hir king we also do confesse the church to be glorious She enioyeth most holy and heauenly lawes Most true it is that the commandements of Christ are such that it cannot iustly be counted a seruitude to be obedient vnto them yrksome they are no doubt to a carnall man but not to him that loueth God this is it that is witnessed in the places alledged viz. Matt. 11. 30. and 1. Iohn 5. 3. but what are these Lawes and commandements Our Sauiour Christ say they was fortie daies after his resurrection conuersant with his Apostles teaching them those things which concerne the building of the church and kingdome and the Apostles according as they haue receiued instruction of him so they builded and lefte vs a patterne nowe So that these most holie lawes were giuen by Christ to his Apostles betvveene the times of his resurrection and ascention VVhereunto I saie that although the discipline of Christ beeing his owne ordinance is most holy yet this is to put it in the number of vnwritten verities when men would proue it by such arguments as this is And as for the saying of Christ by them produced it doth not speake of discipline for hee onelie willeth his Disciples to take his yoake vpon them I knowe that they take this Yoake for discipline but the circumstaunces of the place do bewraie their ignorance in so thinking For in bearing this yoake CHRIST willeth that his example bee followed Learne of me saith Christ. Nowe I woulde vnderstande of these men what was that Church wherein Christ founde this discipline established and submitted himselfe vnto the same leauing this his deede for an example to bee followed if they cannot tel me this as it is harde to shewe that which neuer was I wonder what hath moued them to wring out discipline from hence seeing that Christ onely exhorteth to submission meeknes c. by his example The Philosopher was not so grosse in his Panspermia as they are in making quidlibet ex quolibet so commonly Yet I saie againe the lawes of Christ are most holy and that discipline which he approueth most necessarie which is not the gouernment which heere is decyphered for it shall appeare to bee the deuice of man without the approbation of the vvord of God but the rule of his worde wherein vvee are taught to emploie our selues in our seuerall callings to performe those dueties which in our callings God requireth at our handes As for the vigilancie of Pastors the sinceritie of Doctors the carefulnesse of Gouernors the trustinesse of those vnto whom the care of the poore is committed the sobrietie of relieuers the humilitie obedience and meekenesse of the people these are required in the word of God and all the testimonies in this cause cited one or two excepted are admonitions exhortations that men wold be carefull of these things as they do concerne them in their callings But do these proofes here vsed iustifie that the visible church enioyeth such a people qualified in this sort Nay those that come neerest the matter as Rom. 12. 7. 8. Act. 20. 28. Matth. 5. 5. Deut. 18. 10. are but exhortations vnto this fidelitie vigilancy c. but no promises that the church shal enioy such men alwayes Some of these scriptures do flatly shew the contrarie Read Act. 20. vers 29. 30. I know saith Paul there shall enter in among you grieuous wolues not sparing the flocke c. It is also the iudgement of some that one of the deacons spoken of Act. 6. was the first of the Nicholaitans mentioned Reuel 2. 6. Other places alleaged are nothing to the purpose as Ioh. 13. 7. which is not spoken of the widowes that here are called releuers but to the disciples of their duties in helping one an other Likewise Esay 60. which is a prophesie of the calling of the Gentiles and Eze. 36. 38. which promiseth a blessing vpon Israell are farre from prouing that euerie member of the visible church is meeke obedient c. thus hath our author tolde vs of many good things without due proofe of any one VVhen this describer of the church had shewed vs the sinceritie of euerie member particularly he giueth his iudge ment of them all iointly saying Euerie stone is liuing elect pretious which is confirmed with three testimonies the first is 1. Reg. 7. 9. where the building of Solomon being shewed in order that he built one house to dwell in an other called the forrest of Libanon a porch for the throne where he iudged and a house also for Pharaos daughter it is said All these were of costlie stones And how then did euerie of these buildinges to what vse soeuer they were appointed represent the visible church of God The onely sight of this place is sufficient to shew what force it hath to prooue the matter in question The second place is Zach. 14. 21. Euerie pot in Ierusalem and Iuda shall be holie vnto the Lord of hostes and all they that sacrfice shall come and take of them and seeth therein by this ceremonie the people were put in minde that euerie of them doe worship the Lorde with holy affections but this doeth not prooue that all the people did thus behaue thēselues in Gods worship the contrary is plaine Agg. 2. 11. 12. c. The last place which is 1. Pet. 2. 5. cōmeth more neere the marke for the
A PLAINE CONFVTATION OF A TREATISE OF BROVVNISME Published by some of that Faction Entituled A description of the visible Church In the confutation whereof is shewed that the Author hath neither described a true gouernment of the Church nor yet proued that outward discipline is the life of the Church Whereunto is annexed an answere vnto two other Pamphlets by the said Factioners latelie dispersed of certaine conferences had with some of them in prison Wherein is made knowen the inconstancie of this Sect what the Articles are which they still maintaine as also a short confutation of them There is also added a short ansvvere vnto such argumentes as they haue vsed to proue the Church of England not to be the Church of God LONDON Printed by Thomas Scarlet for William Wright 1590. TO THE RIGHT HONOrable Sir Thomas Henedge Knight Vize Chamberlaine to her Highnes Treasurer of her Maiesties chamber Chanceller of the Dutchie of Lancaster and one of her Highnes most honorable priuie Councell the comforts of this life and of the life to come COnsidring that right Honorable the making of many bookes doth breeda wearisomnesse with smal profit the councell of Salomon is to bee regarded who willeth vs to receiue admonition by his holie writings In regard whereof though hereticall pamphlets are dailie dispersed yet the wise are loth to answer thē as also lest that in answring the fole according to his follies they might seem like vnto him yet when silence hath hardned the factious and emboldned them to adde new supplies we learne that the foole is to be answered vnto his follies lest he seeme wise in his own conceit This burden I haue taken vpon me perhaps presumptuouslie but finding on the one side the learned vnwilling to deale with so sottish a schisme and on the other side that small learning wil be sufficient to ouerthrow so ignorāt a sect I haue bin the more bold in this mine attēpt for I preiudice not the wise herein who refuse this labor nor yet giue cause of discontētment to the simple for whose sake onely I haue done it if those with whom I deale find themselues grieued I regard it not onely if I may escape the censure of rash presumptiō in publishing this rude treatise vnder your honorable title I shall obtaine my desire I haue presumed to present it to your H. not for that I am able to bring forth anie thing worthie your H. acceptation but that I might obtain a defence for my self your H. might be moued to go on in furthering the Lordes building So shall God by your meanes be glorified his church comforted and euerie member thereof shall haue iust cause to continue their heartie praiers vnto God for your H. prosperitie with the increase of all heauenlie giftes graces of his spirit in this life for the assurance of your euerlasting ioy in the life to come Your Honors most humble in the Lord to command R. Alison TO THE READER HOwsoeuer earthly kingdoms do prosper best when peace is had yet the church of Christ which is his throne receiueth good euen by dissention Inde crescit Ecclesia vnde mundus deficit Therfore although a good agreement in al affaires ought to be regarded yet a dissent in religion doth sometime profit inasmuch as therby the faith of some is exercised the inconstancie of others is made manifest and the diligence of all those whom deep securitie hath not ouerwhelmed is much quickned vnto the serching of the truth The rent that is made by some hath confirmed this vnto vs by experience whiles that the constancie of such as are wise hearted is made manifest the vanitie of those that are vnstedfastly minded is laide open the godly are made acquainted with those ancient heresies whereof in times past they were both ignorant and carelesse The disturbances of our Church are many proceeding from one fountaine though they bee not all of one nature Satan hath sent them they are like vnto him disagreeing one with another and at iarre in themselues and yet are all opposite vnto the truth For the Atheists and Papists are at as great defiance one with another as euer was Herod and Pilate And the Anabaptists and Donatists condemne each the other for matters of religion as much as the Pharesies did the Saduces and yet as they could bee reconciled rather then the Church should inioy her peace so these will sooner iustifie one another than they will submit themselues vnto the truth But the bush which Msoses sawe perished not though it was compassed with a flame and the Church of God through his gracious prouidence doth stand fast though the securitie of Atheists the Idolatrie of Papists and the impietie of the rest haue threatned an ouerthrow yea it is now come to passe that although no heresie is without some fauourers yet the deuises euen of the most skilfull deceiuers haue bene so laid vpon that not one of those is thought vpon of sober mindes but with detestation I grant that men voide of reason may thinke reuerently of them because wee see the Donatist condemning Donatisme a schisme which hee himselfe vpholdeth which is a verie dronkennes though it bee without wine but wisedome is iustified of her children The Donatists in the yeere of our Lorde 290. or as some write 353. by their preposterous dealings disturbed the churches in all those partes where they remained With vaine impudencie they condemned all the Churches of God and affirmed that the Church was in the partes of Donatus onely Also in vpholding that the Church of Christ is without spot or wrinkle or grosse pollution they did falsely charge Coecilianus the Bishop of Carthage with certaine crimes taking occasion therevpon to separate themselues from the Church They did account the Sacraments to be no Sacraments if they were deliuered by one that approued not their schisme And therevpon though Donatus did not institute rebaptization yet his successors rebaptised those that came vnto them They taught that it was vnlawfull to seeke vnto the magistrate for aide in causes of the church because they were the Lords free people To be short that men are not to be compelled vnto good duties that they are to vow a constancie in their schisme that they were ready to prouoke the sword of the magistrate against themselues that they might brag of sufferings these and such like were the fruites of Donatisme Now Donatus the first author of this schisme was condemned for an heretique and his doctrine for hereticall in the daies of Constantine by the councel of Carthage and from time to time euer since it hath ben so accounted of not onely of the Church of God but also of such as abhorre the name but maintaine the doctrine of this schisme This is it that the malcontents of our age do greedilie hunt after the annoiance of our church condemne it and all other Churches that are not partakers of their
faction crie out that the true church is without spot or wrinkle or grosse pollution take libertie to slaunder those that are in authoritie so to free themselues from all submission affirme that the Sacraments are no Sacraments Whervpon though the renuer of this schisme Browne I meane did not in plaine wordes require a baptising againe yet their succossors in their established Church attempted it haue taught that they being the Lordes free people the magistrate is not to deale in causes ecclesiasticall holde that men are not to be compelled to good duties binde one another with a vow to persist in this faction boast of suffrings c. yet detest the name of Donatisme though Donatus was the first deuiser of Brownisme though Brown was the only restorer of these fansies The forerunners it should seeme were grosse when their Disciples are ashamed to be accounted their schollers yet if anie grossenesse as yet vnnamed either in matters of faith or manner of dealing be found in them it will appeare in these also for it is no new fansie but an ancient heresie neither is there hope that they will be restrained but by an olde remedie For as the Donanists when councels were called conference was had and they were conuicted yet gaue it out with great glorie that they had put to silence all the learned and remained wilfull vntill that by the sharp laws of Honorius they were restrained yea and many of them by that meanes were brought againe to the Church so with our men all gentle meanes haue bene vsed in conference hard speeches haue onelie helped them yet remaine they obstinate and brag of victorie if the lawes of our christian Honorius doe them no good they are incurable No doubt the Phisition is irke some to a frantique person and a father to an vnrulie child the one in binding the other in striking and both in louing The dutie of a phisition and the nature of a father must appeare in the magistrate not in satisfieng the desires of the froward to cōtent them but in restraining their phrensie to profite them It may bee to the discontentment of some that anie punishment should be inflicted vpon them for their disordered stubburnnes I would not be mistaken I wish it not howsoeuer m. Greenwood affirmeth that the magistrate ought to compell vnto the hearing of the word Only this I saie that the lesse these matters are cōsidered of the better may the men be conceiued of but view their writings examine their doctrine and marke their dealings and they will appeare the open enemies of Gods truth for in pretending to establish a church they ouerthrowe the church and vnder the colour of setting vp the discipline of Christ they seeke to plague themselues and others with their owne dreams which in this their treatise of discipline and in their two other treatises of certaine conferences lately by them published shall bee made manifest to the indifferent reader In answering of them al onelie the calumniations in the conferences excepted which concerne some particular persons whose cause I leaue to themselues who best know how farre they are abused and in regorde thereof can best answere the same I haue followed the authors method leauing the man and seeing into the matter not regarding who wrote it but what is the doctrine that is maintained by him As for the treatise of the visible Church it will appeare not tollerable inasmuch as it is impious abusing the Scripture iniurious to the Church in describing a false gouernment and daungerous to the simple who are readie to bee deceiued with euerie blast of vaine doctrine The other discourses are not onely like vnto it but haue in them many bitter speeches vngodlie slanders both of Church Magistracie Ministerie and all wherby it seemeth that the author hath not learned to rule his pen. In this mine attempt I haue small hope to satisfie those that are wedded to their will when Gaudentius was answered sufficientlie to his follies hee would notwithstanding returne his aunswere though he did the same nulla ratione respondens sed magis se nec respondere nec tacere potuisse declarans If our author wil replie let him labour to be vnlike to Gaudentius and his companie who with words and bitter speeches sought to vphold their cause if he vse the Scriptures let him applie them faithfully and then if he preuaile the controuersie will be at end In the meane while if these poore labours of mine might satisfie these discontented persons or failing hereof might staie the ignorant from beeing seduced or else might prouoke them that are better able to deale more substantially in these matters I shal be glad Finally I am to intreate the reader both to accept in good part that which in desire of his good is deliuered And also before hee beginne to reade this treatise to amend such faultes as by default in the printing were committed R. A. Faultes escaped in the printing The 2. pag. line 21. This read Thus. pag. 5. li. 5. read the sentence pag. 9. line 24. reade preaching pag. 13. in the margent Iudg. 4 reade Iude. 4. pag. 23. line 12. read Veliphnei Iehouah ijshpok c. pag. 30. line 14. dutie reade vnitie pag. 40. in the margent reade Bale in Apoc. 2. Iraeneus c. pag. 65. line 25. reade were not in the primitiue c. pag. 99. Tit. 3. is to bee placed line 11. and line 19. should be Deut. 13. pag. 108. line 28. reade for instruction onely c. pag. 110. line 23. reade Inst. lib. 4. c. pag. 117. line 2. reade ignorantiam A PLAINE CONFVTATION OF A TREATISE OF Brownisme published by one of that Faction the Title whereof is this A true Description out of the word of God of the visible Church The Answere to the Title THE departure out of the Church is rightly called the badge of an heretike to whom in his going out the Goates do flie for succour when the sheepe of Christ do seeke their foode in the Church of Christ. But because it is a lesser burthen to beare the marke then to haue the name of an heretike it falleth out that men in all ages when they forsake the fellowshippe of the saintes of GOD they doe professe a betaking themselues vnto the true Church of God Heerevppon it commeth that such as haue beene nourished with the milke of discontentment strengthened with the spirite of vnquietnesse and cloathed with the profession of a godlie conscience do now trouble and molest vs refuse to continue with vs and make a nullitie of our Church Their eyes they say are now opened who liued vntill nowe in blindnesse they haue found out the true Church whereof they labour to be members in seeking our good they publish and set sorth vnto vs a true description thereof and this shall bee confirmed out of the word of God This their knowledge their loue and their faithfull dealings are warranted vnto vs
edifie the most simple approuing it to euerie mans conscience he must be of life vnreproueable one that can gouerne his owne household he must be of manners sober temperate modest gentle and louing c. Answere In this description of a doctor here is nothing differing from that which hath bin in the description of a pastor For as there no mētion was made of any ecclesiastical iurisdiction so here it is also passed ouer in silence as if he had neuer said that the pastor and doctor were gouerning officers And as there he requireth of a pastor the diuiding of the worde of God aright and the approuing of it to euerie mans conscience so doth he heere require the same in a doctor and both alike in the iudgement of our author are to execute their office without any difference either of the place or of the matter or of the manner of dealing then the which what can be more fond if he speaketh the truth in saying that these offices are limited seuered and diuers And lastlie as in the description of a pastor the scriptures were abused so in this of a doctor they are not friendly handled For these-places 1. Tim. 3. Tit. 1. 2. Tim. 2. 15. haue bene alleaged before for the pastor who being an ouerseer of Christs flocke hath not bene denied the vse of the Scriptures to decypher out his calling but in bringing the same in again for a Doctor it appeareth that the store is now spent wherof there was no spare in the beginning of this Treatise Also these 1. Cor. 1. 17. 2. 4. doe shew what Paul did in his Apostleship but the office of a Doctor is a distinct matter from the office of an Apostle therefore altogether impertinent vnto this matter are these testimonies vsed by the author Their Elders must be of wisdome and iudgement endued with the spirite of God able to discerne betweene cause and cause betweene plea and plea and accordingly to preuent and redresse euils alwaies vigilant and intending to see the statutes ordinances and lawes of God kept in the church that not only by the people in obedience but to see the officers do their duties These men must be of life likewise vnreproueable gouerning their own families orderly they must be also of maners sober gentle modest louing temperate c. Ansvvere The third sorte of gouerning officers in the Church are by our author called Elders concerning which name howsoeuer Caluine reporteth that in churches of former times some had this title giuen vnto them who onely were conuersant in the censure of the church yet is it generally in the Scriptures ascribed vnto them that laboured in the worde and sacraments as appeareth Tit. 1. 5. Act. 14. 12. 20. 17. in other places And therupon Caluin saith Quod Episcopos presbyteros pastores ministros promiscue vocaui qui ecclesias regunt idfeciex scripturae vsu quae vocabulaista cōfundit In that I haue without making difference named Bishops and Elders and Pastors and Ministers I haue done it according to the practise of the Scripture which confoundeth these wordes And Ierome sayth Veteribus eos omnino fuisse presbyteros quos Episcopos VVith those of ancient times the same men were Elders which were Bishops Therfore it is not so directly from the word of God as in the title of this booke is promised but from the practise of some churches that he hath taken this name Elder to giue it vnto those which beare office without anie further dealing in the ministerie of the word As the name Elder in this place is not vsuall in the word so the office of an Elder as it is here described hath neither warrant of the worde nor yet of any church whether ancient or of latter daies I graunt that certain churches haue made choice of men which shoulde deale onely in the censures of the church whom they haue called Presbyteros Elders But the most that they haue euer required in such an Elder was that he should be sound in faith in life vnreproueable able to discerne of the dealings of euerie calling in the church careful to see rightly into the same and readie to ioyne in correcting with ecclesiastical censure those that are vndutifull beeing helpfull vnto the rest But that it shoulde belong vnto them to discerne betweene cause and cause betweene plea and plea c. It is a plaine pulling of the svvorde out of the magistrates hand They meane no such matter they saie for they graunt the magistrate his authoritie ouer the persons though not ouer the causes of men This it is whereas her Maiesty hath appointed Iudges in the land to end causes decide controuersies to giue sentence vpon malefactors and shirifes to see the execution of that vvhich the Iudges haue determined the seat of iudgement must be brought into the consistorie of these Elders and the office of the Shirife must be onely lefte in the hande of the magistrate to see the decrees of these auncients put in execution Now tell mee if these men do not goe beyond Corah his companie as before vvas said yet I will leaue the further consideration of these matters vnto those whom they doe concerne onely let vs see vvhat warrants they haue out of the worde of God for the largenesse of this their commission Num. 11. 24. maketh mention of three score and tenne men which were chosen by the appointment of God to bee assistants vnto Moses but these were temporall magistrates and not ecclesiasticall Againe it sayth not that Moses was discharged and the authoritie of iudging betweene plea and plea remayned in the power of these men onely As like to purpose is Act. 15. where there is neither anie such authoritie mentioned as aforesayd nor yet such an office as an vnministering Elder spoken of For the worde Elders in that place doeth signifie those that labour in vvord and doctrine as hath beene noted before As touching that of Paul 1. Tim. 5. 17. An Elder is worthie of double honour especially such as labour in the worde and doctrine From whence is collected that there were some Elders which did not labour in the word and doctrine I answere that there was a time as before was saide when such Elders were in the church but when they had their beginning how long they cōtinued how far their office extēded The author hath neither in this place nor els where shewed At the first they were not as by that hath bene shewed may appeare Afterward it should seeme that some such were appointed for the secret meetings of the faithful whiles they were vnder persecution but when the church increased and was dispersed into nations as now it is in England we reade not that such were continued in the Church nay the contrarie is flatly testified For as Ierome sayeth Idem est Presbyter qui est Episcopus antequam diaboli instinctu
be tolde too often we must bee content to heare it againe Therefore it followeth Brownist The pastors office is to feede the sheepe of Christ in greene and wholesome pastors of his word and leade them to the still waters euen to the pure fountain riuer of life he must guide and keepe those sheepe by that heauenly shephooke and pastor all staffe of the worde thereby drawing them to him therby looking into their soules euen into their most secrete thoughtes thereby discerning their diseases and thereby euring them applying to euerie disease a fit and conuenient medicine according to the qualitie and maladie of the disease and giue warning to the church that they may orderly proccede to excommunication Further he must by this his sheephooke watch ouer defend his flock from rauenous beasts and the wolfe and take the litle foxes c. Ansvvere It belongeth to the Pastor to fede the shepe to draw thē frō euil by the power of the word both in matters of faith manners of life to preserue them frō schismes heresies schismatikes heretiks and to giue notice of the wilful and obstinate persons that ecclesiasticall censure may proceede against them For proofe whereof the places alleaged must haue a gentle construction before they may be accounted indifferent For though Leuit 10. Num. 18. and Ezech. 44. do speak of the Priest Likewise Psalme 23. and Zach. 11. of Christ yet can they not properly be applied vnto the Pastor except we adde this that the Pastor must walke in the steps of the Priest and in the matters aforesayd bee a follower of Christe And that also Reue. 22. 2. forasmuch as it speaketh of the Church triumphant as the whole discourse doeth shewe it can hardly be brought to pertaine vnto the Pastor except wee saie that it is in regard that the ende of his ministerie is to bring the people of God vnto the assurance of this estate So that to fill the quotations vnto the matter wee haue great need of a friendly expositor Now in the office of a pastor heere is an addition to that which in the former place was mentioned that hee is to looke into the most secret thoughtes thereby discerning the diseases of his people which should seeme a heauy burthen for a man woulde thinke that the heart of man is a bottomlesse deepe and that no man could know the heart of man but the spirite that is in man and that God onely trieth the heart and the raines yet this is not so vnpossible as it doth appeare at the first sight For there are diuerse meanes which may bee be vsed for the readie attaining vnto the matter as the Papists for the same purpose had their auricular confession And yet there is a surer waie namelie to perswade the people as some haue beene taught it publikelie for sound doctrine that they may not come vnto the table of the Lord before they haue examined ned themselues of their secrete sinnes and also doe declare the same vnto the church that is not to the Priest as it was in poperie but to the Elders and people also and this is not a secrete butcherie of mennes soules as that was but an open tyrannising ouer the conscience Brownist The Doctors office is alreadie set downe in this description his especiall care must bee to build vpon the onely true ground-worke gold siluer and precious stones that his worke may endure the triall of the fire and by the light of the same fire reueale the timber haie and stubble of false teachers hee must take diligent heede to keepe the church from errours And further hee must aeliuer his doctrine so plainly simplie and purelie that the church may increase with the increasing of God and growe vp into him which is the head Christ Iesus Answere Our authors meaning is that the doctor do teach the truth and conuince the gainsayer All this we heard of before in the description of a doctor here then is no addition to supplie the wants of that discourse onely it is countenanced with a greater number of Scriptures then it had at the first and therein bewraieth a greater folly for the margent is pestered to no purpose For what doe these places cited tell vs Ezech. 33. 1. setteth out the dutie of a watchman 1. Cor. 11. 19. sheweth the necessitie of heresies Ioh. 10 11. speaketh of the shepheard Christ Leuit 10. 11. which also was alleadged for the pastor was spoken of the Priest as was Eze. 44. 24. and Mal. 2. 6. Paul 1. Cor. 1. 7. saith that the Corinths were not destitute of anie giftes Also in the 1. Cor. 2. 4. he speaketh of himselfe being an Apostle The two places of his Epistle to Timothie do shew his dutie in the Church of Ephesus where as these men saie hee had the function of an Euanglist Paul Ephe 2. 20. telleth them that they are built vppon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets Heb. 6. and 1. Peter 2. 2. doe declare howe Gods people ought to growe vp more and more in the knowledge of Gods mysteries I see not how anie one of these places can directly prooue the office of a Doctor in the Church for either they do testifie the dutie of other callinges or else they shewe what matters are effected in the people by the ministerie of the pastor Now that place of Paul the first Epistle to the Corinthians the third Chapter and the eleuenth vearse I haue kepte it vntill the last place for that I finde it most of all abused not so much because it is restrained here to a Doctor and yet the Apostle spake it generally of all sortes of builders but for that the latter part of this Scripture is here expounded of false Prophets which is to bee vnderstoode of such teachers as alwaies keepe the foundation and builde in Christ howsoeuer thorough their frailtie and weakenesse they bee farre from that exacte puritie which is required in handling the worde of God Brownist The office of the ancients is expressed in their description their especiall care must be to see the ordinances of God truly taught and practised as well by the officers in doing their dutie vprightly as to see that the people obey willingly and readily It is their dutie to see the congregation holilie and quietlie ordered and no man disturbed by the contentious and disobedient froward and obstinate not taking away the libertie of the least but vpholding the right of all wiselie iudging of times and circumstances they must be readie assistantes to the pastor and teachers helping to beare their burthen but not intruding into their office Ansvver It should seeme that the drawer of this gouernement would haue the ecclesiastical censures onely to proceed frō the ancients or else he would in one place or other
the corruptioÌ„ of their harts Thirdly that our ministery is antichristian a matter handled pag. 125. the scurrilitie in calling them hirelings mercenary preachers c. deserueth no answer the names of parson vicar c. doth not make a difference in the ministery but in their maintenance Fourthly we are subiect to the popish courtes as high commission c. wherunto I answer that al these courts haue their authority from her maiesty though some of theÌ„ more directly then the other In consideration wherof to call the lest antichristian is arrogant but to ioine theÌ„ all in one sentence to disswade her maiesties subiects froÌ„ yeelding obedience vnto any of theÌ„ it will be found an act of no good subiect yet for mine owne parte I purpose not to giue iudgement in the matter I leaue it to such as are acquainted with the law onely I will propound the case which is this The high court of Parlement hath agreed that the queene her hignes successors kings queenes of this realme shall haue full power by letters pattents vnder the great seale to name and authorise when as often and for so long time as her highnes her heires or successors shall thinke meete such person or persons as she or they shal thinke meet to execute vnder her c. all manner iurisdictions priuileges and preheminences in any wise concerning any spirituall iurisdiction within England and Ireland c. 1. Eliz. 1. Now her maiestie by the authoritie aforesaid hath graunted her letters pattentes vnder the great seale for the two courts of high commission and delegates And by the said authority first from the Parlement and then from her maiestie these two courtes doe stande and not by any other right or authoritie whatsoeuer yet these two courts of high commission and of delegates are here tearmed popishe and antichristian courts and the people are condemned to be antichristian which yeelde obedience vnto them This therefore is the case Whether it toucheth her maiesty or not that libels railing vpon and calling her highnes authority which is warranted by her broad seale popish antichristian c. Brownist These assemblies are not ruled by the old and new testament but by the canons iniunctions and decrees of those antichristian and popish courts therefore c. Ansvvere The Argument is this The true church is ruled by the old and new testament but the church of Englande is not c. Therefore c. If Christ hath in his last will set down a perfect gouernment for his church as they say he hath there is little vse of the olde Testament for direction of discipline vnder the Gospell But this Argument being in effect the same with the former needeth no other answere then it had Brownist These people stand not in for their Christian libertie but all of them remaine in bondage to these Aegyptian and Babylonishe yoakes yeelding obedience vnto these courts and their canons Therefore c. Ansvvere The Argument is this All and euerie of the true Church stand in and for their christian libertie to practise whatsoeuer God hath commanded them c. But in the church of England they stande not for their christian libertie Therefore c. Ansvvere We haue seene pag. 49. 50. that the priuate man doth passe the bondes of his calling in presuming to deale with publike reformation Againe it was sayde pag. 45. that in the visible church it doth not alwaies fall out that euerie member hath that freedom which is requisite in the performance of their christian dueties of his calling The proposition therefore is false As for the assumption in differing nothing from the three former it doth commend the greate facilitie of the author who in resoning in so smal varietie of matter is able to frame so greate a change of argumentes which yet being considered of doe appeare all one in effect Brownist These assemblies haue not the povver vvhich Christ hath giuen vnto his church vnto the vvorlds end al the povvers of earth and hell cannot take from them viz. to binde and loose and to reforme things that are amisse but are driuen to the Commissarie courtes Therefore c. Ansvvere The Argument is this The true church hath power to execute the censures of the church but the church of Englande hath not Therefore c. The proposition faileth for the true church is sometimes without outward gouernement whereof read pag. 25. and so consequently without the power which this man speaketh off for I know he will not restraine this power of binding and loosing though he might vnto the ministerie of the word whereof notwithstanding Christ speaketh Ioh. 20. 23. saying Whose sinnes soeuer ye remit they are remitted and whose sinnes ye retaine they are retained As for the assumption it is most vntrue for we haue not onely the power of Gods word which he hath giuen vnto his ministerie to bind and to loose therby but also the censures of the church in respect of outward gouernement I grant that euerie seuerall congregation hath not this power and I dare affirme that in no age it can be proued that euery seuerall congregation had this authoritie but euen in those churches which had an Eldership the same was not in euery assemblie but diuerse congregations were ordered by one senyorie therefore to say that because euerie priuate congregation hath not this power therefore it is not at all in the church is a childish kind of reasoning Brownist These assemblies cast out sathan by the power of sathan namely by these Imps of Antichrist the Bishops commissaries and priests Therfore they are not and for all their reasons seuerall and ioyned cannot be held in any Christian iudgement the true church of Christ. Answere In this last Argument is granted vnto vs that which before was denied viz. that our church hath power of casting out but it faileth in the manner for if they say true this power is not from Christ but from the imps of Antichrist c. vnto which accusation I answere the end wherefore men are cast out from amongst vs by the doctrine of our church should be that the offender by being depriued of the seales of the couenant might be brought vnto repentance Now for the ordering hereof the people are not in the weightie matters of the church to haue their voice pag. 47. c. And a presbyterie in euery congregation cannot be had pag. â—8 therfore neither election ordination excommunication nor other censures of the Church are to be committed to euerie particular congregation As for this vnchristian dealing in condemning for Antichristian whatsoeuer is not according to their humour it hath bene often answered Some defectes there are in our gouernment we challenge no perfection some corruption there is oftentimes in such as haue the ordering of it I defend not all But in this I would be resolued if wee by the power of Satan cast out Satan by what power do they cast out