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A77735 A brief ansvver to obiections of all sorts, against Presbyterian chvrches and their government. Bakewell, Thomas, b. 1618 or 19. 1650 (1650) Wing B528; Thomason E620_11; ESTC R206382 29,802 35

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drinking buying and selling what have you not houses to eat and drink in 1. Cor. 11.22 and hath not Christ whipt them out Iohn 2.15 16. then how dare they presume to doe so again but most abominable is it in those that pull downe the Pulpit and Pewes to make stables for Horses and their dunghill at the dore doe these men take heed to their feet when they go into the Temple of God Eccle. 5.1 and reverence the Sanctuary Lev. 19.30 certainly this is the abomination of desolation in the holy place Ma● 24.15 these men doe not desire to be a dore-keeper in the house of the Lord rather then the Tents of the wicked Psal 84.10 these men are not glad when they are invited to the house of the Lord as David was Psal 122.1 neither are they grieved that they cannot go with the multitude of those that keep Holy day Psa 42.4 neither are they grieved to see the Heathen enter into the Sanctuary and violently destroy the places of the Assembly Lam. 1.10.26 nay they are not sensible how that fire is cast into the Sanctuary which is like to burn up all the Synagogues of God in the Land Psa 74.7 8. if the Lord in mercy prevent it not But those places for publike Worship were built by Papists for Idolatry and God hath commanded to destroy the places of Idolatry Deut. 12.2 Ans First it cannot be proved that our Churches were built by Papists for Idolatry for we had the Christian faith before Antichrist was in being therefore the places of publike Worship also Secondly that command was to destroy all the inhabitants with their houses goods and cattell yea every thing that breathed as well as the places of Idolatry Deut. 13.15.16.20.16.17 which may teach us to loath the sin but not to punish so severely without a speciall command as they had which did not reach to other people Deut 20.10 Secondly that command was to destroy their name also Deut. 12.3 but many Saints in the Apostles dayes were called after the names of their Idols Rom. 16.1.14 Phil. 2.15 Titus 3.13.1 cor 16.17 yet they did not destroy them nor change their names Thirdly meat sacrificed to Idols was as much polluted as the place yet the meat may be eaten asking no question for Conscience sake 1 Cor. 10.25 26 27. then why should the place be destroyed Fourthly God commanded to destroy the remainder of the Paschall Lamb Ex● 12.10 and the remainder of the Pan and Bread of Consecration Ex. 29.34 which may teach us to prize our Sacraments yet not to burn the remainder of bread and wine after administration of the Lords supper Fiftly the Iews were bound to sacrifice in one place but now difference of place is taken away Iohn 4.21 neither did Paul destroy the schole of Tyrannus although a place of Idolatry and superstition Acts 19.9.10 but preached the Gospell there two years together with great successe But you imploy these places to superstitious singing of Psalms which was only for singers appointed in the Temple of the Iewes Answ It is foretold that in the times of the Gospell they shall break forth into singing together Isa 52.9 Secondly the Lord hath commanded all Lands to serve him with gladnesse and come before his presence with singing and into his Gates with thanksgiving and into his Courts with praise Psal 100.2.4 Thirdly the Church as an Ecce to that command saith O come let us sing unto the Lord let us make a joyfull noise to the rock of our salvation let us come before his presence with thanksgiving and make a joyfull noise unto him with Psalms Psal 95.1 2. Fourthly the same parties that are here called upon to hear his voice and to kneele before him in prayer are called upon to make a joyfull noise unto him with Psalms and also the same parties that did partake at the Lords table with Christ did sing an Hymne or a Psalm in the margent Mat. 26.30 therefore singing of Psalm is an Ordinance of God in the church and ought to be read that all may sing with the spirit and with understanding also 1. Cor. 14.15 But your Parish Congregations were so bounded either by Magistrates or by the Prelates therefore not to be joyn'd with in the publique worship of God Answ If particular Churches had no bounds they could not congregate together as they are commanded Deut. 31.12 and as they frequently did in the new testament Secondly it would be a punishment as bad as casting out to be bound to Congregate some scores of miles from their dwellings Thirdly there was bounds set to Congregations in the Apostles dayes and that was to every Church in every Town or village as was shewed before yea they were confin'd to a Sabboth days journey Acts 1.2 that is so far as they might partake of the ordinances publickly in the Congregation and perform privat duties at home the same day But although the Iews had their Synagogues in every City for publike worship will it follow that Christians must be so bounded now all difference of place is taken away Ans Christian Magistrates as well as Iewish Magistrates are required to compell all to come to the publike worship of God Lu. 14.23 but they may not compell the people to things impossible 2. Magistrates now are nursing fathers to the Christian churchs therfore they ought to remove all inconveniences from the publike worship of God 3. Church Officers are required to feed the Flock and take care of the Flock and to be examples to the Fiock 1. Pet. 5.2.3 Pro. 27.23 Acts 20.28 but they could not doe these duties to them that live many miles assunder so likewise many duties of the Members one to another could not be performed such as mutuall love and holy conferrence tending to edification and works of mercy which could not be if particular Churches had no bounds Objection But your Parish congregations doe unavoidably admit of a mixed multitude to to partake in the publick worship of God Ans The like and much worse is committed in those gathered congregations being for the most part admitted more for money than for fitnesse as may easily be proved 2. In all reason both the Officers and Members yea and Magistrates also by their Lawes can better reform what is amisse both in Church and State amongst those that dwell near to them than they can those that live many miles distant from them 3. Presbyterian Churches if once they were erected their officers being appointed for it would keep the Ordinances of Christ from pollution 4. Presbyterians do receive none to the Lords Table without examination and if any be unworthy it was the Prelates fault and not theirs therefore this slander may more be retorted from whence it came Ob. But if to live in one of your Parishes will make a man a member of your Church then a Turk may take a house in your Parish and immediately be a Member of your Church Ans It will
A brief ANSWER TO OBIECTIONS Of all sorts against PRESBYTERIAN CHVRCHES and their GOVERNMENT 1 Pet. 3 15 16. But sanctifie the Lord God in your hearts and be ready alwayes to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear Having a good Conscience that whereas they speak evill of you as of evill doers they may be ashamed that falsly accuse your good conversation in Christ London Printed by Francis Leach Anno Dom. 1650. An Answer to Obiections of all sorts against Presbyterial Churches their Government IN former times the Prelaticall party troubled our Church with a false Government but now in their stead is risen up an increase of sinfull men who will have no Government at all but combine together against all that are for it like Gebal Amon Amaleck and the Philistines with them of Tyre helping the Children of Lot to root out the name of Israel that it be no more had in remembrance Psalme 83. and all these take advantage upon the late Act of Parliament Intituled an Act for relief of Religious and peaceable people from the rigour of former Acts of Parliaments in matters of Religion by which all those penall Statutes are repeal'd that bound all sorts of People to frequent our publick Assemblies in the worship of God Objection But those former Acts of Parliament which are now repeal'd onely required our assembling at the time of Divine Service Ans It is true but then that which was Divine Service in shew and not in truth was abolished out of our Churches before this Act came forth together with the Service Book also and that which is truly Divine Service is still remaining which is preaching reading and expounding the word of God also catechising singing of Psalms prayer and Administration of both Sacraments now to the neglect of those duties the penalties of these Statutes did of right belong and these people being sensible of it desired freedome and that without danger of Law Objection But those duties are maintain'd in our select Congregations which are as true Churches as those particular Presbyterian Congregations Ans To acknowledge those Divine ordinances to be in our Churches and yet to separate from them shew plainly that their practise is sedition and their Assemblies to be but so many Conventicles against the true Churches of Iesus Christ 2. Independent Assemblies are not as branches of other fixed Churches because they are Independent for can that be a branch of the tree that was never fastened to it nor received any sap or moysture from it or can that be a member of the body that was never of it but altogether Independent 3. the Creatours and founders of those Assemblies we know yea any man that can but get to himself a company of followers he may soon create to himself such a Church although he steal to himself a flock out of the folds of other Shepherds as seducers use to do Acts 20.30.4 They deny Classes and Synods which would be as sinnews to the Body and as morter to the building to sement the Churches together and although they will ask counsell of other Churches they deny all power to determine any thing for particular Churches so that their meeting for counsell and advice can do them no more good than that head or body can do to the fingers and toes when the arms legs are cut off that should fasten them to the body 5. These Church gatherers are not like to the Apostles who gathered Disciples from without among heathens and not from the folds of other shepherds 2. They gathered them all into that one universall Church but these to themselves which would have been sedition in all nations 3. They took nothing for their pains but these take mony of the poorest servant and such as cannot contribute to them shall not be admitted 6. These Church-gatherers are not like those fixed Officers as Pastours and Elders placed by the Apostles in every Church Acts 14.25 for these are not contented with that flock nor with the maintenance thereof allotted to them as their Predecessors were before them but seek for members out of other Churches to make it up 2. These men for the most part have not those qualifications required for that office having not the gifts of tongues I mean those originall languages in which the Scripture was first written neither mediately taught them in Schools nor by immediate inspiration 3. These Church-gatherers have no lawfull Ordination by the hands of the Presbyterie as all the Ministers of the Gospell have 1 Tim. 4.14 therefore they are no true Churches But now Presbyterian Churches are rightly descended as branches and Members of the first fixed Churches and they also as members of the universall visible Church instituted by Iesus Christ I call this Church universall because it is not confined to any place onely it shall be built upon that rock Iesus Christ Mat. 16.18 who will be with his people in all ages and places Mat. 28.20 to him be glory in the Church throughout all ages world without end Ephes 3.21 Now this Church so promised to be built cannot be meant that part of it in heaven called the Church of the first born where the souls of the just are made perfect Heb. 12.23 for that was not then to build but was prepared from the foundation of the world Mat. 25.34 whose maker and builder is God Heb. 11.10 neither was that the invisible Church so loved and sanctified by Iesus Christ Eph. 5.25 because the Apostles are the builders of it for saith Paul I as a wise master builder have laid the foundation which is Iesus Christ 1 Cor. 3.9 10. and this foundation was to be laid in all nations Mat. 28.19 and in this Church were all the Ministers of the Gospel placed 1 Cor. 12.28 and unto this Church were all Christians when converted from heathens and Infidells admitted Acts 2 41 47. Now the builders of this universall visible Church being sent into all nations to build it where they saw the word of grace most effectuall there they tarried longest being first at Ierusalem and there multitudes were converted by the Apostles and the Seventy and others hereupon they were called the Church at Ierusalem Acts 22. now all the Apostles and extraordinary prophets so wrought together as a common Presbytery for the good of the whole multitude and none of them gathering to himself a Church but seeking all to enlarge that one Church now when all Ierusalem and all Iudea and round about Iordan were all baptised of Iohn Mat. 3.56 and so converted to the Christian faith then this Church branched it self out into Churches in Iudea and Galite and Samaria acts 9.31 1 Thes 2.2.14 and the Apostles ordained Elders being fixed officers and divided to every one his congregation ordaining Elders in every Church acts 14.23 and thus Paul left Tytus to ordain Elders fixed and confined to every City