it which is not a little fault in determining contraverted points while as he speaks thus allowed mater of the Visible Church For mater of a Visible Church may be said to be allowed in a double sense or relation viz. either in regard of what is incumbent to a man himself by way of duty before God or in regard of what is requisite in him by way of qualification in the outward Ecclesiastick Court whereupon the Church may and ought to proceed in admitting him to the externall communion of the Church I confesse that none are mater of a Visible Church allowed in the former sense or relation but such as are not only so far as men most spirituall can discern or judge but also in very deed true converts and beleevers It s a mans duty in professing Christianity and adjoyning himself to the Church of Christ to beleeve with his heart as he professeth with his mouth otherwise he is matter not approven not allowed of God But I beleeve its another thing to enquire what is mater of the Visible Church allowed in the latter sense and thinks that advised men among our Brethren of the Independent way will say the same in the generall Yet I trow it shall be found afterward that the strength and stream of our Authors Arguments runs in the former and so are little to the purpose of the Controversie between us and our Brethren touching the mater of the Visible Church section 7 To make way for a more clear discovery of this and to the effect we may in the whole ensueing disput know what we are doing and not fight in the dark Andabatarum more it is necessary before we proceed further to open up and bound the state of the controversie which Mr. Lockier hes not done I cannot tell upon what intention or if upon any design at all and not rather out of pure neglect or some other such thing If he say he was Preaching to people and not Disputing in the Schoole and that therefore it was not needfull nor becoming Scholastically to state a controversie I Answ Whether in Pulpit or Schoole his purpose was to draw his hearers of this Nation from a Doctrine which they had learned and professed before the world to a new way Sure ingenuous dealing would have required that the Doctrine of this Church which he intended to refute and to take them off should been once at least plainly and simply propounded and presented before them This he doth not all along but in effect speaks so indirectly as if we allowed all meer professours whatsoever to be members of the Visible Church Well what he hes not done we shall endeavour according to our weaknesse to do and shall deal more liberally with his side then he hes done with ours Now then let these considerations be premised section 8 1. Let it be considered that this controversie is not about the Members of the Mysticall Invisible Church or of the Church according to its inward state but of the Members of the Visible Church as such or of the Church according to its external state The Church Mysticall Invisible or according to its inward state is the societie of men effectually called unto saving communion with Christ to which doth belong in the intention and purpose of God all the promises of spirituall blessings pertaining to life and salvation The Church Visible and considered according to its externall state is the societie of men professing true Christian faith and Religion for communion in the outward exercises of the Worship and Ordinances of God Admission of members into the Church Invisible is the work of God by the operation of the Spirit in Effectuall Calling and ingraffing men into Christ Admission of members into the Church Visible and according to its externall state is committed to the Pastors and Rulers of the Church who being men and so not seeing the inward constitution and condition of hearts must look at things obvious to the senses in their administration of this work Whence one may be orderly and lawfully admitted a member of the Church Visible who is not a member of the Church Invisible And about this our adversaries I conceive at least such as are most sound and intelligent amongst them will make no controversie Further it is to be observed that the question and controversie between us and the Independent Brethren much differs from that which is debated between the Papists and the orthodox concerning Church-members The state of thâ— controversie with Papists which they and namely Bellarmine involve with many Sophismes is truely and really this as the judicious Ames hes well observed Bellar. Enerv. lib. 2. de Ecclesia cap. 1. thesi 10 others have not so well considered whether the whole multitude of professours comprehending as well unregenerate hypocrites and reprobats as true elect believers be that Church of Christ to which properly doth belong all these excellent things spoken of the Church in Scripture viz. that it is redeemed by Christ the Body of Christ the Spouse of Christ quickened acted and led by tâ—e Holy Spirit partakers of all the spirituall blessings so that the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it Albeit Papists dare not state the question in these terms yet the affirmative thereof is the thing they intend that they might obtain a Catholick Visible Church at all times illustriously visible infallible and unfailable and that there Romane is it But it is a far other matter that is debated between us and our present adversaries viz. what persons are to be admitted and accounted to belong to the Church Visible according to its outward state So that these who shall make use of Arguments used by Orthodox Writers in shewing that not wicked hypocrites and reprobates but only the elect true beleevers are members of Christs Church against us for affirming that all who outwardly do seriously professe the Christian faith are to be admitted and accounted members of the Visible Church they are clearly in a great mistake and impertinency section 9 2. Consider we are to distinguish Visible Church-membership in actu primo and in actu secundo I must crave leave to use these terms and shall explain what I mean by them By the actus primus of Church-membership I mean such a state and condition of a person as makes that now he is not to be reckoned and looked upon by the Church Pastors or Professours as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. without but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not as a stranger and alien but as a Brother 1 Cor. 5. 11 12. And consequently may and ought to be overseen cared for and fed by the Pastours and Rulers of the Church as a part of the flock and by private professours dealt with in duties of Christian fellowship according to their and his capacitie The actus secundus of Visible Church-membership is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fruitio i. e. the fruition and actuall use of Church priviledges ordinancâ—
and acts of outward Christian fellowship This distinction is of necessary consideration in this controversie For it is certain one may be actually a member of the Visible Church in actu primo and yet not actually injoy the use and exercise of all and every Church priviledge and ordinance whereunto Church-membership gives him a right in habitu Because unto the fruition of the actuall exercise of some priviledge and ordinance there may be required an especiall condition which may be a man wanteth through some physicall incapacitie or some morall defect As under the Old Testament persons that were undoubted members of the visible Church of Israel yet might for some legall pollution as an issue of blood touching of a dead body c. been debarred from the publick Assemblies of the Church and Sacrifices for a time untill they were cleansed from the pollution according to order instituted by God So also one who is an acknowledged member of the Visible Church being overtaken with a scandalous fault and not carrying himself obstinatly but submitting himself may be kept from the actuall exercise and use of some Ordinances untill the scandall be sufficiently removed yet still as is acknowledged on all hands continue a Church-member in actu primo and it hath been constantly held by Orthodox Divines untill Anabaptists arose that Children under the Old Test being born in the Church were then and now being born in the Christian Church are even while under the years of discretion members of the Visible Church Although neither then they were nor now are capable of actuall use and exercise of all Church-priviledges and Ordinances Therefore it is one thing to enquire what is requisite to constitute one capable of Church-membership simpliciter and in actu primo and another to enquire what is requisite to make one immediatly capable of actuall use and exercise of all and every Church-priviledge and Ordinance whereunto Church-membership doth entitle him section 10 3. Consider we must difference between that which is required of a man by way of duty in foro Dei that he may adjoyn himself unto Church-communion and participate Ordinances in such a manner as is necessary for his own salvation and approving himself to God and that which is required of him by way of qualification in foro Ecclesiastico that the Church may lawfully and orderly admit him to their externall communion and thereafter respect account and deal with him as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. amongst these that are within The reason of this distinction is clear because the duty of a man that will so adjoyn himself into the communion of the Church as is requisite for salvation and for approving himself therein to God doth no doubt reach formally and directly the inward man the frame and acting thereof But the qualification requisite in the Ecclesiastick Court whereupon the Church is to proceed in admitting or acknowledging men Church-members doth consist formally and directly at least only in somewhat outward and apparent to men For it is a sure rule de occultis non iudicat Ecclesia as is confessed by Hooker Survey Part. 1. c. 2. pag. 15. speaking of the same purpose and by Mr. Lockier himself pag. 55. section 11 4. Consider There is an holinesse relative or adherent and an holinesse absolute and inherent The holinesse relative and adherent consisteth in the separation of a thing from a common use and dedication of it unto some holy use or end Holinesse absolute or inherent consisteth in qualities or actions of a person agreeable to the Law of GOD. In the former way the stones of which the Temple was built are called stones of holinesse Lam. 4. 1. So the Temple it self the Vessels consecrated to the Worship of God the City of Jerusalem are called holy In like manner persons in a speciall way set apart for the Worship of God as the Priests and Levites and especially the High Priest are called holy In like manner the whole People of Israel are said to be holy Deut. 33. and to be sanctified by God Exod. 31. 13. Lev. 8. 8. and 21. 8. and 22. 32. Because to wit God by entering in Covenant with them had separated them from other people and Adopted them to be a peculiar People for himself in the same sense 1 Cor. 7. 14. The Children born of one Parent at least a beleever i. e. a Professour of Christian Religion are called holy because they are comprehended in the Covenant made with and imbraced by the Parents for themselves and theirs and so are to be esteemed as among Christians separated from prophane people and dedicated to God Again holinesse is either inward and true which consisteth in the inward renovation of the soul faith hope love and other supernaturall habites and their elicite acts Or externall which consisteth in the Profession of the true and Orthodox Religion and a conversation so far as comes under mens knowledge ordered according to the rule of Gods Commands as is competent to humane weaknesse i. e. without scandall at least contumacy and obstinacy in some given scandall and comprehendeth also in it that holinesse relative and of dedication Further it is worthy diligent observation here that when it is said the Church is a societie of visible saints this may be understood in a double sense for the Epithete visible may either be taken as a note signifying not the nature of the form which gives the denomination of Saints or holy but an adjunct thereof viz. the notoreitie and manifestation of it before men In which sense if it be taken in that description visible Saints are such as by outward manifest and evident signes and tokens are perceived and acknowledged to be endued with true inward holinesse and grace of regeneration Or it may be taken as a note signifying the very nature and kind of the form i. e. holinesse which giveth that denomination In which sense if it may be taken then men are said to be visible Saints in so far as they are adorned with externall holinesse although abstract from that internall and true grace of regeneration section 12 The state of the Controversie then lyeth in this to expresse it as plainly as I may what is requisite in a person as the necessary qualification in the Ecclesiastick Court whereupon he is to be received or acknowledged as a member of the Visible Church and is to be accounted as not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. among these that are without but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. among those that are within and so over whom the Pastors and Rulers of the Church should watch and care to feed him by the Ordinances of Christ according to his capacity and to whom private Christians ought to perform duties of Christian communion according to their stations viz. whether reall internall grace of regeneration repentance toward God and faith in Jesus Christ at least such evident signs thereof manifested and approven upon acurate examination
did apostatize much and so forsook their assemblings and so their exhorting one another with all these means of grace and life which God hath instituted in this new house and so indeed grew worse and worse till at last they came as the rest of the Jewish Churches to nothing As long saith the Apostle as ye hold fast the practice and power of what you profess so long you are a Church but when you let go this you unchurch your selves and should it be persued upon you you should be thrown out as unhallowed mater but if others which should do it will not do it the Master himself who is faithfull will do it He wil cast such a Church wholly off which thus suffer his institution to be corrupted and so indeed he did write Loammi upon the first Churches quickly after the Apostles time for this thing section 7 Ans If this be not to force Scripture and make it speak what men please I know not what else is Let 's first mark some groundlesse Assertions and then we shall come to the main point of our Answer 1. I wonder at that rash assertion in the close of this and so indeed did he write Loammi upon the first Churches quickly after the Apostles time for this thing What and were the first Churches so soon casten off by Goâ— as no Churches What divine warrant is brought for this Assertion Sir produce the Bill of Divorcement given to them from the Lord. And was there never a Church since untill they were erected of the new Independent frame and model Were all the Christian Churches in Asia Africk and Europe in the times of the four famous Generall Counsels the first whereof was about three hundred years after the Apostles time now no Churches at all Here indeed look out the Donatists ubi cubas in meridie especially if we 'll consider upon what account the Author unchurches them because forsooth they admitted members into their fellowship which were not true Converts partakers of the sure mercies of David c. this is very Donatism in grain 2. The Author supposeth that the Apostle here is speaking to a Church of the Jews i. e. to one particular Congregation distinct from all the rest of the Jewish Churches This is but a bare Assertion without any proof or semblance of proof joined with it We know that some of the Learned Interpreters take this Epistle to have been written not to any particular Church or Congregation but to the whole multitude of the Jews professing Christian Religion scattered abroad through the world as were the Epistles of James and Peter and have for them an argument not improbable from that 2. Epist of Peter c. 3. v. 15. 'T is true that others think otherwayes upon consideration of what we read Heb. 13. 19. where the divine Author desires them he writes to to pray for him that he might be restored the sooner to them which seemeth to import a more limited compasse then the whole dispersion But granting this that it was not written to all the Jews why might it not be written to all the Christian Jews that were in Palestina and Judaea Most part Interpreters take it so but that it was written to one single Congregation of the Jews as Mr. Lockier would have it who will believe upon his bare word 3. He seems to suppose a clear untruth of these to whom the Apostle speaketh viz. that they did apostatize much forsook their Assemblies their mutuall exhorting with all the means of grace and life Indeed the Apostle warneth them to take heed of these things and speaks of some that did so but as for them he writeth unto he layeth no such thing to their charge as done by them but giveth testimony to the contrair c. 6. v. 9 10. cap. 10. v. 32 33 34 39. 4. The maine mistake groundlesse supposition here is this that when the Apostle saith whose house ye are if ye hold fast c. he meaneth this of an outward Visible Church-state So long saith he as ye hold fast c. so long ye are a Church he meaneth a stated Visible Church but when you let go c. you un-Church your selves c. And so as we see will have the words to involve a threatning of losing that visible Church-state upon failing of performance of that which is urged viz. holding fast the confidence c. contrary to the current of all Orthodox Interpreters * See Pareus Hyper. others in Morlorâ—t Excellent is Mr. Dav. Dickson a man of exercised senses in the Word of God his opening of these words N. 3. He the Apostle addeth a condition if we hold fast c. i. e. If we continue stedfast inward ly gripping the promised glory by hopâ— outwardly avowing by confession CHRISTS Truth Whereby he neither importeth the possibilitie of finall apostacy of the Saints nor mindeth to weaken the confidence of Believers more then he doubteth of his own perseverance or mindeth to weaken his own faith but writing to the number of the visible Church he putteth a difference between true believers who do indeed persevere and time-servers who do not persevâ—re to whom he doth not grant for the present the priviledge of being the house of God And then he hath this 2d. Doct. such as shall make defection finall are not a part of Gods house for the present howsoever they be esteemed I believe any judicious Reader will see this Interpretation somewhat more genuine then that of Mr. Lockiers who expone that whose house ye are of the state of grace and spirituall communion with Christ proper to the Mysticall Invisible Church in regard of which Christ dwells in the heart by faith and consequently conceive not the context of the verse to import a turning of them out of one state which now they were in into another estate upon non-performance of that duty which is required But to intimate that the non-performance thereof would discover that they were not in that state which they professed themselves and seemed to others to be in And I prove that it is to be Interpreted thus and not as Mr. Lockier will have it The Apostle meaneth the same here whose house ye are c. which he saith v. 14. We are partakers of Christ if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence c. So Interpreters agree that one and the same thing is said in both verses and the very purpose it self evidenceth so much But now is partaking of Christ nothing else but to be in a Visible Church state Yea for confirmation let it be observed that the Apostle saith not whose house ye are but we are so that he speaks of some what under the metaphor of house which he supposeth common to him and them together What was this Visible Church-member-ship of a certain we are not told where residing particular congregation of Jewes Mr. Lockier hes not heeded this or has purposely passed it over 5.
severally as well as collectively and joyntly But if it signifie the Visible Church it cannot be predicated of every one of the persons severally each person is not a Temple in this sense a Visible Church Ergo c. Obj. But the Apostle is speaking here to the Visible Church of Corinth Ans True but every thing he speaketh of them is not for that competent to them as a Visible Church section 7 I cannot but wonder much at that wherewith Mr. Lockier closeth this reason and so how can God have glory in the Church throughout all ages Eph. 3. 21. Ans And doth continuation of the Glory of God in the Church throughout all ages depend upon his particular way of constituting particular Visible Congregations of all true Saints and a particular Congregations firmnesse and constancy in holding out the truth Hes God then not been glorified in the Church throughout the many preceeding generations wherein there was never heard of Churches so constitute untill of yesterday Separatists and Independents erected theirs And yet waile them as well as they will they shall never get one such as Mr. Lockier would be at in this Argument And how many particular Churches have fallen away and for their part letten truth fall section 8 The 3d. Argument grounded on Malachi 1. 11. must be thus If the mater of a Visible Church be not persons truly Godly then there cannot be offered up in Gods house a pure offering and the Churches of the Gentiles cannot fulfill that Prophesie Mal. 1. 11. For why Vnto the impure and unbeleeving all things are so every mans offering is as he is let his offering be what it will let a man make up his offering of never so much cost and worth yet it is still in the account of God as the man is if the man be impure so is his offering But it is contrary to that Prophesie to say the latter Ergo. c. Ans Mr. Lockier himself will not be able to avoyd the stroak of this Argument no not by his own way as some times he expresseth it for thereby all such as may be accounted truely godly so far as men can judge are to be acknowledged and admitted as mater of a Visible Church now many of these may be and undoubtedly are really impure and unbeleeving and so of necessity must their offering be impure If it be said yet it is not the fault of the admitters that they do so Ans That 's nothing to the purpose for whether they be faulty or not still it standeth good that by that way it cannot be avoyded but impure and unbeleeving will be in the Visible Church such as cannot offer a pure offering 2. It reproacheth the dispensation and wisdome of the blessed Lord God himself because he hes not left in his Word a rule and way whereby the Church Visible may be constitute so as that Prophesie and his decree revealed therein concerning his service among the Gentiles may be fulfilled for he hes given no rule whereby the Church Visible may be gotten so constitute as that all the mater thereof shall be persons truely Godly But there may be and cannot but be in it many impure and unbeleeving who cannot offer a pure offering But 3. To answer directly we deny the connexion or consequence of the first proposition 't is grounded upon a false supposition that there can be no pure offering in the Church unlesse all the mater that is members of the Visible Church be truly godly What may there not be a pure offering to God in the Church and so that Prophesie be fulfilled of the Churches of the Gentiles if some in the Churches Visible be truely Godly though all be not such Therefore he takes paines without necessity to prove that impure and unbeleevers cannot offer a pure offering that we grant I mean not this materially and objectively for so an impure man may offer a pure offering he should have proven to make his consequence good that if all the mater be not such as cannot offer a pure offering there can be no pure offering in the Church at all If Mr. Lockier say here that not only the offering of the unbeleeving and impure themselves but also the offering of all that are in the Visible Church-Communion with them is impure This is plain and down right Separatism and is disclaimed of all the pious and learned amongst the Independents at least in dogmate and is most contrary to the Word of God section 9 For further confirmation of this Argument he bringeth 1 Pet. 2. 5. but to no purpose for the point in hand and what he comments on it is to no purpose We grant it all 1. That Christ is a suitable foundation to the superstructure there mentioned 2. The Stones must be living to make a Spirituall House 3. That else they cannot be a Holy Priest-hood to offer up Spirituall Sacrifices holy and acceptable to God through Christ That the offering and Offerer are one That the offering may be Spirituall Holy and acceptable the Person offering must be such That persons that have but only a profession of Religion are dead stones But what is all this to the point can there be no Spirituall offering in the Visible Church if all be not such as can offer a Spirituall offering that 's the thing should been alledged to strengthen the former Argument but it is evidently false If it be said that the place may be alledged by it self as holding forth an instance of the generall Doctrine that that Church the Apostle is speaking to was constitute of all such I answer the Apostle is not speaking to any particular Visible Church but to all the effectually called Elect Jews scattered throughout Pontus Galatia c. cap. 1. 1 2 3. If it be said but he intended his Epistle to the severall particular Churches Visible in these several parts I Ans True but it followeth not therefore that every thing he sayeth to them is spoken of them as a Visible Church and so spoken of all and every one of them in that state What is spoken by way of declaration and imposition of duty may be is spoken to all and every one But what is spoken of by way of assertion as a priviledge or blessing existing it is not spoken Universally of all and every on in their visible societie But indefinitely which may be verified though it be competent but to some among them Yea though it were spoken Universally of them all Yet it would only prove what they were de facto and quoad eventum and not what their Visible Church ought to have been by necessity of a command that it might be a right constitute Visible Church section 10 The fourth reason must be formed either of these ways 1. Thus if the Jâ—ws be to be provoked by the glory and purity of his Worship and Worshippers then a Visible Church i. e. every Visible Church ought to be constitute of
Christian Religion had also the inward work of gracious conversion and faith in their heart This had been contrary to truth for some of the converted Heathens no doubt had no more but the profession of Christianity the preaching of the Gospel being as a draw net that catches good fishes and bad together and the outward Kingdom of GOD as a field wherein are tares and wheat growing together Nor yet can it be said that Paul and Barnabas in that declaration meant that all and every one of these Gentiles they spake of were such viz. true heart-converts to their positive judgement and so far as men truely converted and very spirituall were able to discern This appears not out of the words of the Text for first I think the Apostle speaks of Conversion as including gracious heart-conversion in the verity of the thing or Object and not only in the charitative judgement of discerning men tho not restrictively Mr. Lockiers additament viz. According to what a Christian can discern of a Christian or in so far as men c. is his own and not the Texts yea I conceive 't is contrary to the intention of the Text because I no wayes doubt but the Apostles meant positively that there was amongst these Gentiles heart-conversion in the verity of the thing But that which Mr. Lockier sayes by his additament may be contradictorily opposite to that men may be accounted heart-converts in the charitable judgement of very discerning Christians and yet not be heart-converts indeed 2. Granting that to be the meaning which Mr. Lockier saith to be in his additament yet can any thing be alledged from the words that will import it must be understood universaliter de omnibus singulis i. e. universally of all and every one of these Gentiles and may not be understood as spoken only de multitudine communiter indefiâ—itè i. e. of the multitude of them yet forasmuch as Mr. Lockier hath not alledged much lesse proved the former hitherto he hath alledged nothing to his purpose in hand And yet although he hath both alledged and proven this much he had said but little to his purpose unlesse he could also prove that the Apostles in that declaration were speaking of these converted Gentiles with relation to stating in visible Church-membership which thing he onely supposeth but doth not so much as hint at a proof thereof from this Text. section 6 But go we on to consider his Arguments brought to prove his interpretation of Conversion here spoken of which yet he needed not prove for we have granted more of it then he craves that we may see if there be any thing therein making for his main purpose The 1. lyeth in these words Surely if the Brethren had apprehended no more in them i. e. the Gentiles of whom Paul and Barnabas spake viz. then a meer outside conversion they would have had little matter of great joy Answ 1. We say not that the apprehending of no more was the matter of this their great joy but will the Author say that unlesse they had apprehended more then outside conversion in all and every one of them which is a thing he must of necessity take along with him if he will say any thing to his purpose * For his minde is that these Gentiles are spoken of in relation and as matter of a visible Church his doctrin is that none other not one other no not in a whole Church are fit matter of a visible Church but such as are c. they would had little matter for great joy I think hee 'll be advised before he say so 2. Nor am I of the mind that outside conversion i. e. embracing of the Profession of the Gospel and Christian Religion is so litle a matter of joy to the people of God as the Author seems to make account Sure it could not but be matter of right great joy to the LORDS true people of the Jews for to see Japhet perswaded to dwell in the tents of Shem i. e. the Gentiles by embracing the profession of the Gospel added to the Common-wealth of Israel and fellowship of the Church of God And it shall be no small matter of joy to Gentile-Christians when they shall see the body of the Jews ingraffed again into the Church Even outward professing of and submitting to the Gospel is honourable to Christ in the world and so is spoken of in Scripture though it alone be not the full duty of men nor sufficient to save them section 7 I might ere I went on further note here that whereas the Author in the next words propounds the explaining of moe tearms then one of his Text for saith he let us take tearms as they ly and see how other Scriptures do explain them yet in the following discourse I find all runs upon one tearm viz. conversion or converted ones But to insist upon every such small thing is not worth the while Let us see what is said further upon that what these converted ones saith he were according to what Christian can discern of Christian is the thing to be inquired into pag. 3. Ans Nay not this only but two other things also ought to have been inquired into and made out 1. Supposing that true heart-conversion is understood here that the Apostles in their declaration affirmed this universally of all and every one of these Gentiles 2. That in declaring and affirming this they did speak with relation to their stating in Church-membership at least that the Historian Luke reports it in that relation Neither of which the Author proveth or so much as once undertaketh to prove so that what followeth tho granted makes little for the point he driveth at But we go on Paul and Barnabas who were master-builders and surely very seeing men that they might not make a meer report took of those converted ones with them were brought on by the Church We tell you as if they had said of such glad tydings touching the Gentiles but what they are see your selves here they are discourse with them see if they have not the same soul-complexion with your selves whether they have not received the same spirit of Adoption owning and experiencing the same grace of God which ye do Ans Here 's a pretty fiction or Poesie but nothing of Lukes Text yea but something quite contrair to it 1. The Author saith Paul and Barnabas that they might not make a meer report viz. touching the Gentiles conversion but might shew living present instances thereof took of those converted ones with them What hint can he give us from the Text for this it saith a farre other thing viz. first that they i. e. the Church of Antioch ordained some in joint commission for to go to Jerusalem about the question then in controversie and then that these CoÌ„missioners were brought on their way by the Church i. e. as Grotius exponeth it will aliquousque deducti à fidelium quibusdam i. e.
modum jubet ut Ecclesiam c. 2. By altar is meant per synecdochen the whole Worship of God this is confirmed by the Testimony of the same Author 3. What is meant by worshippers is plain of it self 4. The state of worship and worshippers now under the Gospel is to be measured kept regulated to an exact rule What is that viz. rule by the Word of God To confirme this is brought the testimony of the same Author 5. By the Court which is without the Temple is meant men which have only outside Religion and devotion but are destitute of the power thereof 6. What is meant by the not measuring of these That same Author saith he telleth us ne complectaris eos in spirituali aedificio Domini do not imbrace them to be matter of the spirituall house they are without and let them be cast out Why must not such be received nor abide in the Church seing they have a profession Because first saith that Author Marlorat the house is spirituall holy they are not congruous matter Secondly saith John these are given to the Gentiles i. e. saith Marlorat ipsi sunt facti conformes gentibus incredulis immo deteriores sunt illis quantâlibet sanctitatis specie polleant nam traditi sunt in reprohum sensum c. And saith Mr. Lockier himself such kind of Professours and outside Christians will soon in times of temptations conform themselves to the worst of men yea and be worse then they and will strike in with the vilest to tread down the holy citie i. e. the true worshippers in Gods Visible Church that have name and thing form and power of Godlines Then he tells that he cites Marlorat not as finding him fully of his judgement but to see how he and other good men of the reformed Churches speak unawars his judgement and cannot tell how else to give any life to places of Scripture Neither can a man tell how to make themselves agree with themselves in their commentaries without taking them with a grain of salt in this maner After all these grounds laid down he inferreth upon the whole this conclusion that persons professing meerly the things of God are not approved and allowed mater by the Lord in a Visible Church they are such as he doth not measure embrace for his building they are such as are fit to destroy not to build the holy City And these Christ not allowing of them nor measuring of them but casting them by and will do if we do not how then we can but at our perill both in order to God and order to such men imbrace them I know not Thus he upon this place section 5 Ans 1. Here a word or two in the generall First I say Mr. Lockier doth confidently enough to say no more but very poorly with bare assertions without the least proof triumph over these good men as he calls them hinting as it seemeth that tho good yet they were not very deep nor discerning at least in this matter of the reformed Churches as speaking his opinion unawars and not able to expound Scriptures else and as contradicting and clashing against themselves unlesse a grain of his Interpretation be allowed them Parcius ista viris Who are these good men in the Reformed Churches that have spoken unawars his opinion concerning the constitution of the Visible Church I wish he had named the men and designed the place where they say it Nay were it not we are unwilling this peece should grow too big we could produce of these good men who have directly and solidely refuted Mr. Lockiers Tenet as he hath it in ancient Anabâ—ptists He would have done well also to have pointed us to some of these places of Scripture which they could not tell how to give life to without complyance with his Tenet and some of those seeming contradictions in their commentaries which cannot be agreed without that graine he speaketh of untill he do this we must account what is spoken by him here but groundlesse and empty boasting 2. That in the whole discourse upon this place Mr. Lockier speaks so as that he cannot be Interpret but to hold none to be members of the Visible Church but such as are endued with true saving grace and the power of Godlinesse in veritate rei He never once in it mentioneth that qualification so far as men can judge Yea his expressions are such as cannot possiblie admit it as will appear in following the particulars To which now we come section 6 We begin with some notes upon the conclusion 1. I aske here what he understands by meer professing the things of God Whether such professing as is opposite to and destitute of even morall and ordinary seriousnesse which may sometimes be without an inward saving worke of grace yea or outward convincing positive evidences of it Or as it is opposite unto an inward saving work If he meant the former he shall not have us to contradict his conclusion we shall grant him that such as have not so much as an ordinary morally serious profession such as evidently professe the things of God histrionically mockingly manifestly purposing to deceive are neither allowed of Christ nor to be admitted by men as mater of the Visible Church If he say the other and so that none are to be admitted into the Visible Church but such as beside profession have also really true inward saving grace he putteth the Church upon an impossibility and in this will be disclaimed by all the judicious of his way If it shall be said it may be he meaneth neither but such a profession as is opposite to positive convincing evidences of grace to the judgement of discerning men and so far as they can judge I say 1. This is not said by himself there nay he cannot say it and hold to all what he saith here Why because some may be such as far as men can judge and yet such as Christ will cast out yea and hath casten out and men may be such and yet fit to destroy the holy City 2. Persons may be such as are not approved and allowed mater by the Lord in the Visible Church and yet the Church may admit them into the Church without any perill in order to God i. e. without sinning by admitting them as for instance Simon Magus If he say he meanes not here the Lords not approving not allowing persons simpliciter and in point of their duty but in relation to Ecclesiastick proceeding with them in foro exteriore he shall not have us dissentient from him about this in the generall But himself hath never this distinction of the Lords approving or not approving when from it at any time he reasoneth to the admitting or not admitting of such persons Yea for ought that can be perceived along this Peece he seemeth alwayes to speak of Gods approbation or not-approbation of persons in point of their own dutie simpliciter But now to put the most
implyes a mans own personall experience of things 2. We say the Apostle in these titles of beloved of God Saints Beleevers meaneth true saving grace truely existing and not in the judgement of charity only But speaketh there not of all the Romanes universaliter distributivè as we say all men are sinners but communiter collectivè confusè i. e. in common collectively and confusedly because undoubtedly saving grace was amongst them and he could not take upon him to determine whether moe or fewer of them were endued with it and as it seems knew nothing to the contrary of any of them particularly but they might be such Thus verily I think the Apostles writing to whole Churches and calling them generally by the name of Saints faithfull c. may well be understood and no other thing can be demonstrate of their meaning Take herewith the judgement of the Learned Commentators on the place all of which do unanimously determine that these titles of Saints faithfull and the like are given by the Apostles to the Churches partly in respect of the end of their calling and the duty of every one in the Church viz. that the end of their calling and their duty is to be such and partly by a denomination taken à parte potiori from the better part because there were true reall Saints and beleevers amongst them And I think it is a worthy and solide consideration which my worthy Collegue in the Ministry and my Reverend Superior in the Colledge I live in hath in his due right of Presbytery pag. 259. in answer to Mr. Cotton upon this same Question and Argument the styles given to the Church of Corinth are too high to be given to hypocrites such as many of Mr. Lockiers truely godly so far as men can judge may be and often are but these styles are not given to that Church precisely as Visible and as a professing Church but as an Invisible and true Church of Beleevers He Writeth to a Visible Church but he doth not speak of them alwayes as a Visible Church but as of an Invisible when he calleth them Temples of the Holy Ghost c. section 4 What we have said ro his alledgeance concerning the Church of Rome is applicable to what is said to the most part of the rest so that we shall not insist much on them Only a word or two of some of them And 1. For the Corinthians after he hath set down what is spoken to them chap. 1. vers 2 4 5 6 7 8. and chap. 4. 15. he subjoyneth persons having such grace in them as shall be confirmed to the end as keepeth them waiting to the coming of the Lord Jesus as are the comfortable seals of a faithfull Ministry that all this should signifie but an outward Profession or to say that this Church should constitute and Congregate together upon any other account but as there was the true grace of God evident as far as men could judge I cannot indeed see Answ 1. Let it be marked how in citing the place chap. 4 15. he maketh an addition to the Text for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you all this all is put in as the Apostles word when as in the Text there is no more but I have begotten you This is a gross foule slip I will not say it hath been done out of designe may be it hes been done inconsiderately without present turning over to the place however adding to the Word of God is a dangerous practice 2. As for that to say that this Church did constitute and gather upon another account c. we have noted on it sufficiently before I adde now this by what Mr. Lockier saith here and indeed by the Doctrine of all the Independent Brethren of his way in this mater of the constitution of the Visible Church it appeareth that their conception about the order of gathering the Visible Church by the Apostles was this that men being first turned to the Profession of Christian Religion there was a tryall made of their evidences of true inward saving grace and such as evidences satisfactory of this were found in these were gathered in and the rest casten by which I dare say is a meer fiction of which not the least vestige can be shown in Scripture and never man dreamed of untill these sad times broodie of many new fancies under the name of new lights 3. I confesse persons having such grace in them as shall be confirmed to the end as keeps them waiting for the coming of Christ as are the comfortable seals of a faithfull Ministry are not outward Professours only but are reall Saints and Elect and thence I conclude it cannot be understood universally of all and every one of the Visible Church of Corinth Will he say that all and every one were reall Saints Elect to be confirmed unto the end and so eternally saved if he say yes in Pauls judgement so far as he could judge upon evidences of true grace I say 1. That is an addition to the Text Paul saith simply he shall confirm you unto the end c. not so far as I can judge he shall confirm you Yea 2. It enervats the comfort held forth by the Apostle to them he speaks to for it imports no more upon the mater but this possibly ye may be confirmed to the end and so when all is done ye may be possibly not confirmed to the end mans judgement can go no further and is contrary to the strain of all the Orthodox writing against the Remonstraints in the Article of perseverance who understand the place of Saints and the Lords effectuall gracious preserving them in veritate rei and so make use of the place and presse it against the Remonstrants But let Mr. Lockier rid himself here if he will have Paul to speak thus of all and every one of the Visible Church of Corinth either he must conceive it spoken only with relation to the state of that Church as its first up-setting or also in relation to what it was at the present time of the Writing of this Epistle The former cannot be said because it s most evident all along that Passage Chap. 1. he is speaking of it as still at the time of his writing standing in that condition he expresseth in his words albeit some of the Verbs be used in the preterit perfect tense no man can deny this who hath any judgement If he say the latter the very Epistle it self will confute it wherein to wit so grosse wickednesses and impieties are discovered to have been amongst them and laid to their charge schismes contentious suits of Law fornications communion and fellowship at Idolatrous Tables drunkennesse at the Sacrament of the Lords Supper deniall of the Resurrection Will any man say that the Apostle knowing such things to be amongst them speaks of all and every one of them as reall inward Saints as far as men can judge section 5 For the
But hence it followeth not that there must be such a homogenealnesse in the Church Visible as Mr. Lockier meaneth that it be endued with true faith and have the Spirit dwelling in their hearts And as to the reason of the connexion of the proposition we answer such a homogenealnesse is not requisite for such a derivation as is from a head politicall to its politicall body this derivation being only morall by commands prohibitions and the like morall actings But Christ is not a Head in the latter sense as the head in the naturall body is to the Church Visible as such nor is the Visible Church a body to him in this sense but only vocatione activâ and in externall profession Neither is that derivation from Christ unto the Church whereby it groweth up in the Lord unto the Church as a Visible Church or considered according to its visible constitution But unto the Church Invisible internall Mysticall as such section 5 His 2d Reason is thus shortlie If the Visible Church be the Church of the Living God the pillar and stay of truth and consequently such as should bear up the truth into the World and be a stay to truth holding it out firmly and faithfully in the midst of all tryalls and such as in which God lives and dwells and walks Then none can be mater or members of the Visible Church but real Saints For why Doth God live and dwell in dead persons who only make a Profession of Religion Will such persons be a stay to truth and the things of God Will they be a stay to truth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 firmamentum as the firmament to the stars who fall from Heaven themselves And so how can God have glory in the Church throughout all ages But the Visible Church is the Church of the Living God the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim. 3. 5. in which God lives dwells walks Ergo c. Ans Mr. Lockier still in this as in all his other Arguments shews that in propounding his Doctrine he added that qualification truely gracious so far as men can judge but dicis causa and in shew to avoid for a while the odium of the greatest Anabaptists Tenent of the mater or members of the Visible Church For such as may be gracious and Godly so far as men can judge mens judgement being not infallible in this as himself confesseth may be destitute of the power of Godlines in their hearts and so such as will not hold out truth firmly in the midst of all trials may be but dead persons and so such as in whom God doth not live walk and dwell 2. As to that first property and character attributed to a Visible Church from 1 Tim. 3. 15. by Mr. Lockier First I would aske him if in good earnest he meaneth that to be a property of a Visible Church rightly constitute in its mater as it should be that it will bear up the truth and things of God firmly and faithfully to the world in the midst of all trials Sure this is the very thing that Papists alledge from this place for the unerrabilitie and indefectibilitie of the Visible Church against which all Protestant Divines disputes Yea it is much more for Papists attribute this only to the Catholick Church Visible acknowledging that all particular Visible Churches may erre and make defection and let the truth and things of God fall down excepting only the Roman Church because they make it to be the Catholick Church virtually but Mr. Lockier acknowledges no Church Visible but an Independent Congregation and will have this to be the property of any particular Visible Church and therefore propounds the subject of his conclusion here thus a Church Visible i. e. any Visible Church now let me put him further to it either there was never a Church Visible rightly constitute for mater from the beginning seeing all the first constitute Churches have made defection and let truth fall down which if he say besides that it is absurd in it self I ask why then did he a little before bring us paterns of right constitute Churches from these first mentioned in Scripture Or if they were right constitute how comes it that they made defection and did not bear up and hold out the truth and things of God but did let them fall If he answer that came to passe because they kept not a right constitution for their mater I repone that taks not away the force of the Question For that same if it was so was a not bearing up and holding out firmly and faithfully the things of God and so the Question returneth upon this 2. But to answer directly to the place though Interpreters have some variety amongst themselves about the meaning of it Yet never one of them acknowledges that Interpretation which Mr. Lockier gives but opposeth it and refuteth it in Papists Some indeed expone the attribute the pillar and ground of truth much as he doth but these by the Church to which it is attributed undâ—rstand not the Visible Church but the Invisible of Elect. So Whittaker de Eccles q. 3. c. 2. illa quidem Ecclesia quae est columna firmamentum veritatis nunquam potest deficere Sed quod assumit adversarius illam Ecclesiam esse Visibilem illud affirmo esse falsissimum Invisibilem enim esse affirmo demonstro c. and often otherwhere Others again understand the subject as he doth by the Church to be meant the Visible Church of Ephesus but these expone the attribute the pillar and ground of truth not of what the Church Visible will do alwayes de facto but what is its duty and dignity elogium hoc Ecclesiae dignitatem officium describit Non autem quod in ea perpetuâ luce fulgeat Gomar specul ver Eccles c. 2. So Wal. loc com de Eccles milit Resp 1. Hoc dicitur de Ecclesia Ephesinâ que tamen periit 2. Ergo respectu officii sic vocatur See more concerning this place in learned Gomar in the place cited also in his commentar upon the Gallatians c. 2. in the second Tome of his works pag. 244 245. where you have an excellent discourse of the diverse Orthodox Interpretations thereof both ancient and moderne Divines We passe here Camer Interpretation of this place joining these words pillar and ground of truth not with that which goeth before but that which followeth section 6 For the 2d property and character out of the 2 Cor. 6. 16. We Ans With all Protestant Divines that it is not the Visible but the Invisible Church that is the Temple of the living God in which he liveth dwelleth and walketh See Whittaker de Ecâ—ces q. 1 c. 11. pag. 442. To omit many other Arguments for proof of this take but this one from the Text the Temple of the Living God in this place is taken in such a sense as that it is spoken and praedicated of singular persons
such matter i. e. Members as are all truely Godly But the former is true Ergo c. and if thus then we deny the connexion or consequence of the first Proposition And my reason for the denyall thereof is this Because I may say if the Churches Visible be de facto such that all or most part of their Members be truely Godly and shining in the Power of Godlinesse at the time wherein God hath decreed to bring in the Jews that will be sufficient for provoking the Jews although it be not constitute by a Rule or Precept that the Church in admitting Members into externall Church-fellowship admit none but those that are truely Godly And why may we not say that the Lord will at some time for carrying on a design decreed by himself in the way of the dispensation of his efficacious Grace make his Visible Church at least in most part the Members thereof better as to the reality and Power of Religion then he requires them to be by way of Rule relating to Ecclesiastick proceeding with Persons in admiting them to externall Visible Church-communion In a word the futurition of the provocation of the Jews by the Power of Godlinesse in Gentile Professours proveth only that God is to make the Gentile Professours such de facto or at most what they ought to be in point of their duty for serving and glorifying God But proves not that they ought to be such in point of qualification in foro exteriori Ecclesiae and in relation to admission to the externall society of the Visible Church section 11 Or Secondly It may be formed thus If the Jews shall be provoked to turn unto the Lord and imbrace Christian Religion by the glory and purity of his Worship and Worshippers then the Visible Church or Churches use which ye will now shall be constitute or consist of such as are truely Godly But the former is true Ergo the latter also And I answer 1. Suppose the consequent be granted in as large an universality as it can be taken in Yet it speaks nothing to the Question in hand Why Because only of what is to be de facto quoad eventum by dispensation of effectuall Grace in the Visible Church And not what ought to be by rule of necessity that the Church Visible may be rightly constitute in its Visible Church-state and the Question is about this latter not that former And dispensations of effectuall Grace are not our rule in this 2. Nor yet doth it follow of necessity that even de facto the Church Visible shall be so constitute as to its matter in every difference of time but only that it shall be at that time that the Jews are to be brought in and converted to the Christian Faith Yea nor doeth it follow that de facto even at that time the Church Visible shall be so constitute in its mater that all and every Member thereof shall be truely Godly and shining in the manifestations of Purity and the Power of Godlinesse but that so it shall be for the most part and commonly in the Visible Church I acknowledge that a means of awaking up the Jews to come unto and imbrace the Christian Religion will be a more glorious full Reformation of Christians both in point of Worship and in point of conversation Now Superstition and Antichristian Idolatry amongst those that are called Christians which are these they only see for the most part is a stumbling block to them that ly in their way at this day and I will not say but the impurity and unrighteousnesse of Christians is also a stumbling block to them Albeit I think they do not so much stumble at this as at the former considering that which is well known in the places where they live how much notour and known unrighteousnesse is amongst them generally being for the most part most covetous exorbitant usurers cheaters c. most evidently the deadest formall slight in performance of their way of Worship as mine eyes have been witnesses of any people in the World Yet I say I will not deny that this may stumble them and they may be do pretend it also Therefore Babylon the Mother of fornications must and will down And the Princes of the earth that have given up their power to that Whoore will hate her burn her flesh with fire and the Lord will purge and reforme his Worship and Ordinances and the Christian World from Superstition and Idolatry And I believe also that their is a time coming when there shall be also a more general and shining Reformation of the lives of Christians that both these shall concur as means to provock the Jews to fall in love with the Christian Religion and to seek unto Jesus Christ But that all and every Professour in the Visible Church shall be truely Godly or shining so gloriously in the Power of Godlinesse for indeed it is not Godlinesse simply so much as a more then ordinary shining and eminency of it that will be the means of this great work which Mr. Lockier has not heeded well in this Argument or that if any in the Visible Church be not such convincingly though otherwayes professing the truth and pure Worship and living without scandall shall be casten out neither the necessity of that effect doth require nor can there be warrant of Scripture produced to say or beleeve that it shall be so section 12 As for the passages of Scripture brought for illustration and confirmation of this fourth reason though the very sense of them given by him were granted they bear no more but what we have granted that God will by dispensation of providence punish destroy and purge out among his Elect in the Church wicked idolatrous godlesse and profane ones and this we deny not but that the Lord now and then may be towards the end more is and will be doing this But speaks nothing expresly and directly nor by way of consequence of a rule concerning Ecclesiastick qualification of persons in relation to admission into externall Visible Church fellowship But verily the most part if not all of them are but absurdly and violently contrary to the genuine scope of the Spirit in them drawn to this purpose in hand I shall not now insist much upon them But briefly point out the perverting of them section 13 For the first Esay 66. from ver 16. to the end let the Reader be at the pains to read but upon the place Calvin Junius and the English notes and especially if he have any skill in the Language the notes of the learned judicious Nether-Dutch Interpreters and I doubt not but he shall find such an Exposition and up-taking of the series and threed of that context as shall fill and satisfie his minde much different from that of Mr. Lockiers which is but a new coyn'd Interpretation by men addicted to the millenarian phancy and forced upon the Text. I shall only give some little
and all the Churches in the world were of such a complexion and constitution And we acknowledge that as it is the duty of every professour in the Visible Church in the sight of God that they be not only so far as men can judge but in truth and indeed truly gracious having true saving Faith Repentance and Sanctification So that it is the duety of Ministers and of every one in the Church according to their station and capacity to endeavour by all means instituted by God that it may be so But the thing that we oppose is your rigid opinion that will have no Church Visible at all unlesse you have it of such a complexion and will have none permitted to enter the society of the Visible Church unlesse before they be truly gracious sealed of God by his Spirit at least giving such convincing evidences hereof as they may be accounted such as far as men truely godly â—an discern and judge and will have all who are not such casten out to be as heathens This we oppose because it hath no warrand in the Word is contrary to the Word is obstructive to the salvation of many souls tendeth to the ruine of the Christian Church and Religâ—on But to oppose this and to oppose a Church of that complexion and constitution you speak of are much different Here then first we desiderate ingenuous dealing with us section 3 But what a flood of bitternesse followeth upon this What horrid crimes laid to the charge of his Opposers and what terrible dooms and woes denounced against them They have a meer spirit of contradiction bordering upon malice and blasphemy liâ—… Jews who not able to disprove things that were taught yet would contradict being filled with envy Acts 13. 44. A spirit of pure contradiction haunting men not a spirit of superiour light a tempter shewing men to be poisoned with Sauls spirit leaven'd with envy and malice and out of this do little else but blasheme the Tabernacle of God and these which dwell in heaven which is no other but a spirit of Antichrist Rev. 13. 6. whereupon is denounced Acts 13. 41. Behold ye despisers wonder perish c. and not wondering at nor believing the things that God sayeth and doeth no other effect produced by the Word and Works of God brought to their door but despising and thereupon with the repetition of the former 1. New denunciation of the curse Ezra 6. 12. and then here spoken to as heathen such as he doubteth Darius was but if he was one then cursed by one of their own high and low of them one as well as another as alterers and destroyers of Gods worship and People and will have them take this off his hand as an article of their Creed Will ye not believe And then the Prophesie denounced against the Antichrist and his followers Rev. 19. from v. 11. foreward is applyed to them Is this the soft sweet whispering we were told of Ah Mr. Lockier my soul is sorrowfull and heavy to think a man professing Christianity a Minister of the Gospel standing to speak in the LORDS sight and in his Name should have uttered such a horrid accusation and bitter invective against many whom Jesus Christ hath interest in and will owne at the last day I beseech you Sir return into your own thoughts and consider as in the Lords presence 1. Against whom you have spoken these things who were the Opposers of that your Doctrine nearest to you at that time and so to whom most nearly you intended your speech then uttered and now Printed Were they not the honest and faithfull servants of Jesus Christ the Ministers of Edinburgh and other ancient Christians there Were any of the people of that place so opposite to you in this mater as the most ancient and solide Christians many of whom were in Christ ere you or I had a being in the World and then with them doth not the Godly Presbyterians in the three Nations oppose you in this mater and the Godly Divines over-seas some of which have positively Printed their judgement in opposition to your way As n. the Valacrian Câ—asse And are all these led by a meer spirit of contradiction c. 2. Consider Sir what is the mater of quarrell Because they oppose your way of outward constitution of the Visible Church which will permit none to enter or abide in the fellowship of the Visible Church under the care of the Ministers of Christ but such as are already truely regenerate as far as the most discerning men can judge though they wish and endeavour by Prayers to God by pains upon men that all in their Churches might be such and would account it their Crown and rejoicing how many they may have such Is this to blaspheme the Tabernacle of God to destroy his Worship and People a spirit of Antichrist For which they must perish be cursed destroyed and all that written Rev. 19. from vers 11. come upon them Suppose they were in an error as it is not an error but the way of Christ might it not have passed amongst the Wood Hay or Stubble built upon the foundation but not destroying the foundation which may burn the builders being safe Ay but say you they maintain it out of a meer spirit of contradiction as did the learned Jews seeing a great aptnesse in many of their Countrey-men to receive the Doctrine of Christ and they not being able to disprove the things that were taught yet would contradict so they c. Ah Mr. Lockier What could the accuser of the Brethren said more boldly and more bitterly 'T is true some of our Countrey-men have shown themselves too ready to receive your Doctrine yet blessed be God not so many as you by insinuation boast of These few that hes done so I judge not their persons they will stand and answer for it before their Judge at the last day Some are now but fulfilling that which they had once prophesied of themselves But to you here Mr. Lockier 1. Suppose they be in an errour that oppose your Doctrine concerning the necessary qualification of persons for being mater of a Visible Church What are ye to judge them to do it out of a meer spirit of contradiction that they are poysoned with Sauls spirit leaven'd with malice and envy c. Would not charity have required that you should have judged possibly they do it out of ignorance and not out of malice against knowledge of the truth Were these Godly modest men Hooker Cotton alive they would and such as are alive of that way that are pious and judicious will I am confident detest and abhorre this your unchristian cruell judging of us Blessed be God we stand not nor fall at mans judgement we have one that judgeth us our Lord Jesus Christ and to him we referre this challenge you have laid to our charge and Sir if you do not repent of the rashnesse and cruelty of it which from our souls
and making conscience to try and search his heart and wayes and to compare the same with the rule may passe a positive yea a certain and infallible sentence and jugement upon himself whether he be Regenerate and in the state of Grace or not This we assert against Papists maintaining that Believers nor have nor by ordinary means can have assurance of their being in the state of grace and against the wilde Antinomians of this time maintaining that this cannot be had by inherent works and signes of Grace 2. We deny not but there are some more eminent outward works and actings of Religion and Piety upon which men in whom they are seen may be warrantably by others so far as is competent to men positively judged truely gracious and that there are some outward works and actings of the flesh designed by the Word of God so grosse and corrupt such as are constant known neglect of the Worship of God open contempt of Divine Ordinances customarie mocking of Piety and Religion and such others see 2 Tim. 3. 2 3 4. which appearing in men others may esteem them void of Grace carnall without the Spirit and fear of God These things then being put out of controversie this is the thing we cannot see in the Word of God a generall and universall rule for trying and giving judgement upon all and every Professour in point of Regeneration and non-Regeneration by others then themselves and holding forth such definite limited and bounded Characters of Regeneration whereupon others may passe a positive sentence or judgement viz. this man is to be held truely Regenerate because he hath so much or so much Profession and practise and this man is to be held not Regenerate at least not to be held Regenerate because he hath not so much I say we cannot see any rule of this kind held forth in the Word of God let Mr. Lockier if he hath seen it point us at it Verily if he had had a mind to satisfie his readers and hearers or done that which was requisite to have been done by him in reason to satisfie and convince them of the doctrine he delivered touching the mater or Members of the Visible Church viz. that all and every one of them must be truely converted and sealed of God for his so far as men very spirituall can judge he should have told them and that from the Word of God the particular definite bounded Characters whereby all and every Professour may and are to be by others then themselves discerned and judged to be such or otherwise but having never so much as once in his lecture assayed to determine this we must crave leave to say he has left them his Doctrine both in the mist However let him do it yet and we shall passe that escape Others of his way or towards it have assayed it but when that which they have said to this purpose is duly examined and pondered I believe it shall be found by judicious and impartiall men much unsatisfactory and still leaving the mater in the dark let 's take into consideration what some of the more judicious of them have determined in this mater section 17 Mr. Hooker Surv. p. 1. c. 2. pag. 24. layeth down the rule or ground in these words he that professing the faith lives not in the neglect of any known duty nor in the commission of any known evill and hath such a measure of knowledge as may in reason let in Christ into the soul and carry the soul to him These be grounds by which charity passed according to rule may and ought to conceive There be some beginnings of spirituall good Here are two things laid down to make up the ground to proceed upon 1. Living without omission of any known duety or in commission of any known evill 2. So much knowledge as may let in Christ to the soul and lead the soul to him But commonly amongst them there is yet a further thing required to ground this judgement viz. a declaration of the experimentall work of faith and Conversion in the heart Mr. Norton pag. 13. and Mr. Hooker himself p. 3. c. 1. pag. 4. he the person to be admitted must be tryed not only what his knowledge but what his acquaintance is with the things of Christ and his Kingdome Experience and acquaintance with Christ importeth more then knowledge that may let Christ into the soul and carry the soul to Christ Even knowledge that he is in de facto Now let us examine these things so far as concerneth our present purpose section 18 Remember then what we are upon whither the Lord in his Word has set down a generall and universall rule for judiciall tryall of professours upon the point of their regeneration or non-regeneration holding forth such determinat grounds as the Church must take cognition of and upon the having thereof and no lesse positively judge persons to be truely regenerat and converted ones this premised 1. 'T is to be observed that as to that part of the ground knowledge Mr. Hooker gives us nothing but an indefinit generall so much knowledge as may let in Christ into the soul But tells not defines not the bounds of knowledge that wee might know how much knowledge will serve for that purpose and lesse then which will not do it So the rule as to this part set down by Mr. Hooker is but a blind And verily I think it shal be hard for any man to define particularly how much knowledge is requisite to let in Christ and lesse then which will not do it Mr. Norton speaking of this part of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 upon which the judgement of the Church must proceed pag. 12. in sin and 13. princip he defines the knowledge required to be the fundamentalls and other heads of Religion the knowledge whereof is necessary for leading a life without scandall But beside that it hath never been clearly yet shown by any what are the precise fundamentals of Religion and I suppose hardly can be it were a hard assertion to affirm that the knowledge of all these heads of Religion that are necessary to lead a life without scandall is necessary to a mans Regeneration and so the declaration thereof necessary to ground the Churches judging of him to be such for admitting him to Church fellowship I think a man may be ignorant all the dayes of his life of the strict morality of the Lords day the knowledge whereof yet it being supposed to be of divine institution as it is is necessary to lead a life without scandall and yet be truely regenerat and such as the Church may judge in charity truly gracious section 19 2. When it is said they must be such as lives not which he expresseth to be not having sin but to tread in it in the neglect of any duty or in the commission of any known evill 1. The Church hereby is put upon a ground of proceeding and judging which is meerly
and Separatists did arise have given and acquiesced in that Interpretation of these titles But if you can bring solid reason to prove they must be understood otherwise we shall yeeld as to this We give more assent to one solid reason then to an hundred Authorityes of meer men Come we then to see what reason is brought to prove they ought to be understood otherwise 1. For that say they they are to be understood of them all according to the judgement of charity The Holy Ghost has clearly said Rom. 1. 7. To all that be at Rome beloved of God called Saints And again vers 8. I thank my God for you all This the first then they subjoyn another We hope when the Apostle saith 1 Cor. 6. 18. flee fornication none will deny but he speaks to the whole Church Yet to the same persons he immediatly addes vers 19 20. Your body is the Temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you you are not your own you are bought with a price this is an Argument taken from the condition of the persons whom he exhorteth thus But the exhortation is to all the Church of Corinth Therefore they were all such as the Apostle judged in charity the redeemed of the Lord. Answ Remember what we have said before that tho all were granted that is here alledged yet the main point in Question touching the constitution of these Churches is not proven The main point in Question is upon what formall consideration only the members of which these Churches did consist were received and admitted into the constitution thereof But the most that can be made out of what is alledged here let it all be granted is that all the members were such de facto and eventually this being remembered to the present purpose 1. Suppose it were granted and that the reasons alledged did prove that these titles as given to the Churches of Rome and Corinth were to be understood as the Authors will of all and every one in these Churches that they were judged by the Apostle in charity the Redeemed of the Lord truly sanctified c. It is hereby clear and evinced that so these titles must be understood also when they are given to the other Churches founded by the Apostles I know the chief Author of the Epistle has more skill however it be with others of them in Logick then to think so and hopes he doth not so despise others that have any tolerable knowledge that way as to think they would take such a thing off his hand and therefore wonders that having undertaken to prove that all the Churches founded by the Apostles were constitute of such members as were all positively judged in charity Redeemed and Sanctified because of the titles of Redeemed and Sanctified given to them And then that these titles given to them must not be understood synecdochically by a denomination taken from the better part but of all and every one of them In the proof of this he brings in two of them without so much as one word of assay to prove the like of the rest If it shal be said that if that be proven of one or two it is proven also by consequence of the rest I deny it for the Question being about the sense wherein a title ascribed to severall particular Societies whether viz. it be ascribed to them universally as competent to all and every individuall contained therein Or only by a denomination taken from a better part of these individualls To prove that is to be so or so understood of one or two of them is not sufficient to conclude that so it is to be understood of the rest If yet it shall be replied that there is no reason why it should not be so understood of the rest of these Churches as of these expressed I answer this much at least should have been alledged which is not to have made the Argument in appearance at least to have some force for the main point intended But what if tho it should be granted that these titles are attributed to the two Churches expressed here are to be understood as spoken of them universally yet it shall be shown that in some other of these Churches founded by the Apostles there were persons to whom these titles could not be applyed We conceive this hath been done before in our answer to Mr. Lockier particularly of the Church of Ephesus and that the 2 and 3. of the Rev. hold the same clearly forth of some others But 2. as for that brought for the Church of Rome we refer to what we have answered before to Mâ— Lockier in that same purpose 3. As to the Argument brought to prove that the title of Redeemed and consequently the rest is given to all and every one of the Church of Corinth it lyeth thus in form as propounded by the Authors themselves The Apostle exhorting the Corinthians to flee fornication taketh an Argument from the condition of the persons whom he exhorteth to wit that they were Redeemed but the exhortation is to all the Church of Corinth Therefore they were all such as the Apostle judged in charity to be Redeemed of the Lord. Answ I wonder exceeding much that such a loosly formed Argument should have come from the hand of such a Philosophe as I take to have been the principall Author of this Epistle for take it as it lyeth here it looketh not like a peece of arte a syllogism consisting of three terms but seemeth to have some more But to take it in the most candid way I conceive it may be resolved into those two processes to make it formall the first may be thus all these to whom the Apostles exhortation to flee fornication there is directed are by him called Redeemed And so were at least to his judgement of charity But to all the Church of Corinth is that exhortation of the Apostles directed Therefore c. The other is for proof of the major or first proposition of that thus These persons who are exhorted to flee fornication by an Argument taken from Redemption as their condition are called Redeemed by the Apostle But all these to whom that exhortation is directed are exhorted by an Argument taken from that condition Therefore c. Now then to Answer 1. I think the assumption of the first syllogism may well be denyed viz. that exhortation is directed to all and every one in the Church of Corinth the Authors prove it not Only they think it so evident that none will deny it But for what reason they are so confident of this I know not unlesse it be this that flying fornication was a duety incumbent to them all and every one of them But this reason is not constringent for why may not a duty which is in a common obligation incumbent to all be pressed upon some peculiar persons by an exhortation particularly intended and directed for them I can see no circumstance in the Text here why we may
not conceive this exhortation tho to a duty of common obligation yet particularly intended and directed by the Apostle to the elect and truely redeemed amongst them not distinctly by the head and name pointing them out but confusè in the Visible Society they were amongst 2. Passing that assumption of the first syllogism the assumption of the second which is brought to prove the major of the first is as loose viz. that all these persons to whom the exhortation is directed or are exhorted to flee fornication are exhorted by that Argument taken from redemption as their condition This may well be denyed for why may not an exhortation to a common duty directed to a whole society mixed of persons of different spirituall conditions be pressed upon all by some Arguments common to all such as that whereby this exhortation is pressed vers 18. and upon some by some speciall Argument relating properly to them There can be no circumstance of the context alledged to prove why it may not be conceived to be so here supposing that the exhortation is directed to all But 3. To beat out the bottom of this Argument I prove from the very Text it self that the Apostle here speaking to the persons whom he calleth redeemed speaketh of them as such in the verity of the thing or object i. e. as truly and really redeemed and consequently cannot be conceived to speak it of all and every one in the Church of Corinth as the Authors themselves will confesse I doubt not I prove it thus these whom the Apostles calls Redeemed here they are such as might and ought themselves to know and be assured that they were Redeemed and had the Spirit of God dwelling in them But only such as are in realâ—ty and the verity of the thing Redeemed c. may and ought to know and be assured of this of themselves Therefore the second Part of this Argument is clear because otherwise a man might and ought to know and be assured of a lie concerning his estate which is deluded presumption The first part is also clear from the Apostles words v. 19. What know ye not that your bodies are the Temples of the Holy Ghost c. That know ye not so frequently used by the Apostle especially in these Epistles to the Corinthians and in this very Chapter five times imports a certain assurance of the thing he is speaking of and therefore here the Apostle imports that these whom he is speaking to as redeemed and having the Spirit dwelling in them they are such as may and ought to be assuredly sensible that they were redeemed And is not this place parallel to that of the very like expression 2 Cor. 13. 5. Know ye not that Christ is in you Which all Protestant Divines presse against Papists for proving Believers certain assurance and perswasion of grace and salvation Therefore I conclude That the Apostle by these whom he calls the Temple of the Holy Ghost understands them that are such indeed and in truth of the object and not in the judgment of charity And what an incongruous interpretation were it to put upon these words Know ye not that ye are the temples of the Holy Ghost redeemed with a price this sense Know ye not that ye are accounted in the judgment of charity temples of the Holy Ghost c. 4. Yet I think it cannot in truth be said that all and every one in the Church of Corinth were judged positively by the Apostle in the judgment of charity gracious renewed and sanctified ones even because of the grosse wickednesse he in these Epistles expresseth himself to have known to be amongst them section 7 The last exception the Authors of the Epistle goes about to obviate thus Neither hath it any weight with us to the contrair which is objected that there were grosse faults amongst them as divisions intemperance questioning the Resurrection incest Will not Lots drunkennesse Davids adultery Peters deniall prove these to be sins incident to the Saints tho justly censurable as the incestuous was excommunicate a man who once as is spoken of Gaius hath been approven of the truth it self though he be overtaken with grosse infirmitie albeit for it he be censurable according to the nature of his offence yea the highest Ecclesiastick Censure passe against him yet he is to be esteemed as a brother 2 Thes 3. 15. Answ 1. Tho that objected hath not with you yet has it had with many judicious and godly men in the Church of God both ancient and moderne much weight to the contrair I name for the present but one there be no doubt of many others because of the Controversie he is upon in making use of this consideration The godly Orthodox and ancient Augustine ad Donatist as post collationem cap. 21. where disputing against the Donatists maintaining separation from all other Christian Churches because of the mixture 〈◊〉 many wicked ones amongst them from that place 2 Cor. 6. 14 15 16 17. just as these Authors of this Epistle do afterward from that same very place ut non sit ovum ovo similius answers them from the consideration of these many grosse wickednesses expressed by the Apostle as abounding in that Church that there were many gracelesse persons amongst them yet they neither made nor were commanded to make separation from that Church I humbly desire the judicious Reader to be at the pains to read the whole Chap. and I shall but point at two or three remarkable Passages of it here see the Margine * In eodem quippe ipso populo CorinthioruÌ„ quod dicimus demonstramus ne forte arbitrentur prophetarum tantummodo moris fuisse non ad Novi Testsed ad Vâ—…eris consuetudinem pertinere sâ—c arguere reprehensibiles quasi omnes in eo populo arguantur sic allo qui laudabiles quasi omnes illi laâ—dantur Ecce ad Corinthlos sic Apostalus loquitur Paulus vocatus Iesu Christi per voluntatem Dei Sostheneâ— frater Ecclesiae quae est Corinthi sanctificatis in Iesu Christo vocatis sanctis Quis haec avdiens credat in Ecclesia Corinthiorum esse aliquos reprobos quandoquidem verba ista sic sonant velut ad omnes directa sit laudatio Et tamen paulo post dicit Obsâ—…ro autem fratres ut id ipsnm dicatis omnes non siâ—t in vobis schismata In ipsis etiam Corinthiis ibi erant qui non credebant resurrectionem mortuorum quae singularis sides est Christianorum Attendamus verbailla quibus Câ—inthiorum Ecclesiam in principio Epistolae sic laudat ut dicatâ— Gratias ago Deo meo semper pro vobis in gratia Det quae data est vobis in Christo Icsu quia in omnibus divites facti est is Ecce sic erant ditati in Christo in omni verbo in omni scientia ita ut iis nihil decsset in ulla graetia ut in illis essent qui resurrectionem
caused them to make by suffrages to themselves Elders Now let any man judge if the Author has brought us expresse Scripture for private Believers formall and authoritative concurrence in the act of ordination of Elders And whereas he addes in the close of his Section By these two first examples are other Scriptures which speak of ordination as if they did attribute it to the Elders onely to be Interpret if other answers proper to such places cannot be found out I Answ If he find not out more proper answers for these places then to expone them by these two examples it may easily be perceived by what has been said that he is at a weak passe in maintaining his point undertaken And I pray tell us why such places of Scripture as plainly attributes the act of ordination to Presbyteries onely should be expounded to take in the people with Elders by these two examples wherein yet their is no demonstrative ground brought to evidence that the people had formall hand in ordination of the Officers mentioned in them And not rather these two examples or practiseâ— seeing it is not expresly said in them that the people concurred in the ordination be expounded by such places wherein the acts of ordination is expresly attributed 〈◊〉 Eldership alone I vâ—rily â—hink that to any understanding man the latter of these two will seem most rationall As for Arguments proving that â—ot the people but only the Officers of the Chuâ—…h â—…ve the power of ordination See these Authors often mentioned section 17 To close up this inducâ—ion of particulars Finally saith he SECT â—… I might instance in lower matters which would strengthen thâ— Argument for if in lesse things the Eldership may not act alone surely not in greater Answ 1. If Elders may not in lesser maters act without joint concurrence of the people what needeth that restriction in the Assertion first propounded not in most weighty things 2. It is a very weak Consequence In lesse maters they may not act alone Ergo not in greater Some persons may have the managing of great maters laid upon them by speciall commission from such as have supream authority to commissionate in these maters and yet have no speciall commission laid upon them to manage lesse maters Mens capacity to act alone or not alone but with others in such maters ariseth not from 〈◊〉 â—uantity or weight of the maters but from Commission and waâ—…â—nd granted by him that hath supreme power and authority over those things But let 's briefly see these particular instances of lesse things alledged by him here section 18 As in Letters recommendatory saith he they were not directed to the Eldership of such a Church but to the whole Church of which they were to be received So Paul recommended Phebe to the Church of Corinth 't was to the Church of Rome Rom. 16. 1 2. So John wrote to the Church concerning certain brethren that were to be received by them onâ— Diotrephes the Elder which stood upon his sole authority in this and such like things and used the Keyes at his own pleasure to keep out and cast out as he would is noted with this mark not to be of God but of Satan for this very thing and one that had not seen God Answ What poor stuffe is here to the purposâ— in hand 1. Directing of Letters commendatory to persons Eldership or Church is not their actings but the actings of some others that 〈◊〉 the Letters and I may say their passion But if it 〈…〉 recommendator◠〈◊〉 not be at all directedâ—â—to◠〈◊〉 â—…ceived by the Eldersh◠〈◊〉 but the whole Church 〈◊〉 â—…fesse this is a strange Assertioâ—â—nd he that will beleeve 〈…〉 ofâ— is too too credulous 3. The matâ—er that Paul recommend Pâ—ebâ— for to the â—oman Christians was a duty of common Christian love to intertain her kindly as a Christian to assist her as they could in her affairs at Rome a duty jure naturali incumbent to all Christians both conjunctly and severally And so the recommendation foâ— that on her behalf might well be directed to all Elders and people But interest of concurring in actings of Church Government being not juris naturalis but juris positivi persons must be sure of speciall warrant and vocation for concurring in them So that 't is but a very sick consequence if Letters of recommendation for such purpose as these for Phebe may be or if ye will ought to be directed to the whole Church then ought the whole Church also to concur in actings of Church Government and juâ—isdiction He must have a good head that will make it out 4. As to the instance of Diotrephes Mr. Lockier is I conceive in a mistake when he supposes that â—…ving of these Brethren for which Iohn did write to the Church was to receive them into the state of Church membership they needed not that they were Church members yea it seems Ministers before and an act of the Keyes It was a receiving of them into duties of Christian kindlinesse and charity v. 5 6 7. but what is all this of Diotrephes to the purpose Because Diotrephes one Elder usurped sole authority to himself alone in the Church made peremptor acts inhibiting the members to receive unto duties of Christian charity stranger-Christians did tyrannically at his own pleasure Excommunicat-persons and that for disobeying his unjust acts if he for this was marked not to be of God but of Satan not to have seen God must the same mark be put upon the Colledge of Elders in the Church if they all jointly and equally act authoritatively in matters of Ecclesiastick Government and jurisdiction without the authoritative concurrence of the whole CongregatioÌ„ yet not according to their own pleasure but according to the Rules of Gods Word nor yet pressing upon the people blind and absolute obedience but reserving to them the liberty of their judgement of discretion must they for this be Classed with Dâ—otrephâ—s 'T is evident Mr. Lockâ—… â—…liquely reaches this blow at Presbyterians but they need no◠〈◊〉 it I will spare what I might say to this Only this much 〈◊〉 â—e give better proof then yet we have seen for popular concurrence in Acts of Ecclesiastick Government I can judge no otherwise of suâ—… bitter hints as these then as is said of Diotrephes words vers 10. of that Epistle SECTION IV. Mr. Lockiers Argument from common Testimony SECT 12. considered and Answered section 1 MR. Lockier having alledged first reasons next some expresse Passages of Scripture wherein how he has acquit himself we leave to be judged by the impartiall discerning Reader in the last place Take saith he common consent for this truth i. e. his Assertion no truth that the whole Congregation are to have joint authoritative suffrages in all maters of greatest weight i. e. all acts of Ecclesiastick Government By common consent he must mean the testimony of Ecclesiastick Writers and now I pray what testimonies of Ecclesiastick Authors
governing yet each acteth orderly in his distinct place viz. privat Christians in their place Elders in their place and station Yet this takes not away the absurdity For seeing Mr. Lockier will have all and every one in the body of the Church formally and authoritatively to act in the acts of Government it followes that all and every one of them are formally Governours and Rulers the privat Christians as well as the Elders and there is no distinction between them at all as to governing except of meer order in acting Certainly if all and every member of the naturall body did formally elicit the act of seeing albeit that part of the body which we now call the eye were supposed to act therein in some respect somewhat distinctly as to order from the rest of the parts Yet all the rest of the parts were as formally and properly an eye as it Therefore as it were madnesse to say that in the naturall body each member doth formally act seeing So it is exceeding absurd supposing the Church to be an organicall body and some of the organes whereof it is composed are rulers governing and commanding in the Lord to whom subjection and obedience in the Lord is to be given by the rest and are as the eyes in the naturall body Yet to say that all and every member in the Church hath a formall authoritative hand or influence in the acts of governing 2. See the incongruity of the Authors comparison The power sayeth he may be fundamentally in the whole viz. body For he is speaking in the immediatly preceeding words of an organicall-body and yet each organ c. for instance the sensitive faculties are in all the soul originally c. What incongruity is this to propound in the generall of power fundamentally in a whole body organicall And then for an instance oâ— simile to tell us of powers or faculties in the whole soul originally Is the soul an organicall body But may some say the Author saith the sensitive faculties are in all the soul fundamentally and radically and the soul radically and fundamentally in all the body and so would by consequence say that the sensitive faculties are in the whole body fundamentally and radically Answ 1. 'T is a very grosse absurdity to say that the soul is in the whole body fundamentally and radically or potentially as we have shown before It is formally and by way of information in the whole body 2. It is a grosse inconsequence the sensitive faculties are in all the soul and the soul is in the whole body Therefore the sensitive faculties are in the whole body fundamentally Nay they are fundamentally and radically in the soul and therefore are not fundamentally and radically in the body neither whole nor part But are formally and by way of inhesion in their respective parts or organs of the body 3. I would fain know of the Author what he does make in the Church answerable to the soul in the naturall body and so that wherein the power of governing is fundamentally and radically as the sensitive faculties of the naturall body are fundamentally and radically in the soul Is it the whole Church as comprehending both people and Ministers That is the body Or is it the people That is a part of the body The truth is Mr. Lockier is at a losse here with his simile Jesus Christ as King of the Church is unto the Church as the soul in the naturall body And the power of governing is fundamentally and radically in him and not in the body of the Church And therefore 3. to make use of the last words of his similitude for which we thank him as making clearly against himself and for us as the sensitive faculties are radically and fundamentally in the soul and act only as he sayeth well by such parts as are fit to act by as seeing by the eye and hearing by the ear and the soul acts all its works by such organs as are proper to each work The hands to work the feet to go So to give the apodosis which he had no will to expresse Ecclesiastick organicall powers such as the senses are â—n the naturall body as the power of governing teaching administrating the seals are fundamentally in Christ the King of the Church and act only by such parts as are fit to act by Rulers Teachers and Ministers These are the proper organs of those works section 7 The fifth and and last Obj. he meeteth with is this The Elders of the Church are called overseers stewards shepherds fathers All which in their analogy hold forth a peculiar and sole power to do things fathers govern alone so overseers c. As to this propounding of this Argument 1. We speak not for a peculiar sole power to do things indefinitely in Elders But for a sole power of authoritative acting in maters of Government and not excluding or denying unto people a private judgement of discretion to try and prove the actings thereof by the rule 2. The Author leaves out some of the names and titles given to the Elders which use to be alledged in this Argument besides the name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Elders as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 guides leaders conducters governours Heb. 13. 7 17 24. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Tim. 5. 17. Rom. 12. 8. 1 Thessal 5. 12. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Governments or Governours the abstract being put for the concrete 2 Cor. 12. 28. 3. Because the Author is pleased to propound the Argument from this ground in the softest way for his own advantage we desire the Reader will be pleased to take it thus These persons and these only in the Church have power and authority to govern and consequently are to exercise formally acts of Government to whom in the Scripture by the Spirit of Christ are appropriated such names and titles which do import the power and authority of governing But to the Officers of the Church are such names appropriat as importeth power and authority of Governing Ergo c. For the major or first proposition I think it may be clear to any of it self And if any shall be so wilfull as to deny it I would ask him as doth the learned Authors of jus divin of Church Government Par. 2. pag. 170. to what end and for what reason are such names and denominations importing power and authority of Government appropriated to some persons i. e. given to them and not to others if not for this end and reason to distinguish them that are vested with authority to govern in the Church from others and to signifie and hold forth a duty or work incumbent to them and not to others The assumption see evidenced at length in jus divinum of Church Government Par. 2. pag. 171 172 173. the summe is this These titles Elder Overseer 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Conducter Governour 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Steward Pastor Governments Ruler are names which generally
of Elderships and Presbyteries of more Congregations consociated that they may lawfully be and of diverse sorts is confessed But there are these points especially concerning them of which there is controversie between us and our Brethren section 4 The 1. is concerning the nature of their power over the severall Congregations or Churches consociated in them Our Brethren of the Independent way attribute no other power unto them but of counsel perswasion to informe and hold forth unto the Churches what is commanded by the Word of God to exhort perswade them to their duty to obedience of what they find commanded in the Word But allow them no authority and jurisdictionall power to enjoine their determinations from the Word authoritatively under pain of Ecclesiasticall censures So Mr. Hooker in the forecited place pag. 2 3. 't is true he calls this power of counsell by the name of Authority And so Mr. Lockier from him Sect. 30. but an authoritative power of meer counsell advice and persuasion may be justly counted a Chimaera But we shall not contend about names Call it authority or power or what you will the thing it self is nothing else but brotherly counsell which hath no binding force formally as issuing from the Presbyterie But bindeth meerly vi materiae materially in regard of the thing which is propounded by them as it is a Scripture truth or command as is confessed by Mr. Hooker And this is no more then one Brother may do towards another and one sister Church may do to another Mr. Cotton in the Keyes ch 6. seemeth to attribute more power to a Synod They have sayeth he power not onely to give light and counsell in mater of truth and practice But also to command and enjoine the things to be believed and done The expresse words of the Synodicall letter imply no lesse Act. 15. 27. It is an act of the power of the Keyes to binde burdens and this binding power ariseth not only materially from the weight of the maters imposed which are necessary necessitate praecepti from the word but also formally from the authority of the Synod which being an ordinance of Christ bindeth the more For the Synods sake This in the letter of the words is a flat contradiction to what Mr. Hooker sayeth He sayeth they have only a power of Brotherly counsell Mâ— Cotton not only that but also to command and enjoin He sayeth they bind only materially because what they determine is either expressed in or infallibly collected out of the Word Mr. Cotton not only materially but also formally from the authority of the Synode Yet I conceive for all such fair words in the intention and reall meaning of the Author little more is understood than what Mr. Hooker sayeth at most nothing more but a Doctrinall power which is competent to any single Pastour as M. Caudrey sheweth Vindiciae clav c. 6. pag. 53. We on the contrare assert that by warrand of the Word of God the Presbyteries of associated Churches Classicall or Synodicall have a power and authority of Spirituall jurisdiction whereby they authoritatively discerne maters Ecclesiasticall and impose these decrees under pain of Ecclesiastick censures and may inflict Ecclesiastick censures upon the disobedient and refractory in the particular Congregations within the combination or association Only let it be observed here that this authoritative and juridicall power we attribute to such Presbyteries of discerning maters Ecclesiasticall and imposing their determinations under pain of censure is not Autocratorick and absolute binding absolutely by vertue of their authority But Ministeriall and adstricted in its determinations to the rule of the Word of God So that that obligation formall which floweth from the authority of the Judicatory into the decree in actu exercito presupposeth that materiall obligation of the thing decreed as contained in the Word of God else it hath not place section 5 2. Point of Controversie is that the Independent Brethren doe not allow the standing use of such associated Presbyteries But only occasionall We assert that by warrand of the Word of God some such Presbyteries are of standing use as standing ordinary juridicall Ecclesiasticall Courts We say that Classicall Presbyteries in the ordinary settled case of Churches are necessary standing Courts for administration of Ecclesiasticall Government and also that Superiour Presbyteries Synodicall may be warrantably of standing use where and when conveniently moe Presbyteriall or Classicall Churches may have and injoy actuall combination as of Yearly Provinciall Synods as in the Churches of the Low Countries are more frequent Provinciall Synods and yearly Nationall Assemblies as in the Churches of this Kingdome of Scotland 3. Point is concerning subordination of lesser Assemblies to greater The Independent Brethren deny altogether subordination of Inferiour Assemblies to Superiour as juridicall Ecclesiasticall Courts Albeit they acknowledge that difficulties arising in a particular Congregation in matters of Government there may be a going out to an Assembly of more Churches and if need be full satisfaction and clearing not being found there there may be a going forth yet to a greater and more large Assembly Yet they say that is elective and only by way of reference and arbitration and only for counsell and direction and assert that a particular Congregation is the supream Ecclesiasticall Juridicall Tribunall under Jesus Christ upon earth So that a person although wronged by an unjust sentence there as they are not in their determinations infallible suppose sentenced to Excommunication which cutteth him off from the benefit of Church Ordinances and fellowship of Christians in all the Churches of the World he may have no appeal from their sentence to another Superiour Judicatory to have his processe juridically recognosced and the injurious sentence rescinded but must ly under it without any Ecclesiastick remedy till death unlesse that particular Congregation be pleased themselves to revoke their sentence So doth Mr. Hooker tell us Survey par 3. c. 3. pag. 40 41 43. and par 4. pag. 19. We on the contrary assert that both the Law of Nature and the positive Law of God revealed in his Word both in the Old and New Testament holdeth out to us a juridicall subordination of lesser Assemblies Ecclesiasticall unto greater so that appeals may be made from Inferiour and lesser to Superiour and greater Assemblies That it is both against the Law of nature and the positive Law of God to place a supream Independent Ecclesiasticall juridicall power in a particular Congregation yea or in any lesser Assembly when as a greater and Superiour is to be had and may conveniently be had We assert also that that series and gradation of this subordination which is acknowledged and maintained by Protestant Churches viz. of Congregationall Classicall Provinciall and Nationall Assemblies is lawfull and agreeable to the Word of God section 6 Whereas there are these three principall points of Controversie concerning the matter in hand The thing Mr. Lockier propoundeth to dispute against
Having briefly noted thus upon Mr. Hookers two Syllogismes we return to our Author section 18 In the close of this his first Argument for confirmation thereof he addeth thus That here they did acquiesce viz. in â—inding the Churchâ—… to which they sent only by way of counsel and materially and did not further meddle with any juridicall processe upon them appears by these pacifick words which would they were written not with ink and pen but with the spirit of the Lord upon all Presbyters hearts who are so turbulent in these 〈◊〉 Froâ— which if you keep your selves you shall do well Ans Mr. Lockier is here in a great mistake while as he insinuateth that if the Synod did not meddle with juridicall processe viz. as I conceive to censure upon them to whom they sent the decrees that it must then be said they acquiesced in meer giving of counsâ—ll 〈…〉 Court or Judicatory had no other act of authoritativâ— Jurisdictioâ— but processing persons to censure When as the making 〈◊〉 authoritative imposing of constitutions which indeed makes persons liable to censure in case of disobedience is an act of juridicall Authority though there be no processing personâ—â—o censure presently joined therewith And that 〈◊〉 this 〈…〉 and authoritatively I mean Ministerially impos◠〈◊〉 â—…tions upon the Churches the they went 〈…〉 to 〈◊〉 â—ny of them hâ—s been abundaâ—…ly proven by the Authoâ—… 〈…〉 2. Yea they did actually put â—orth a 〈…〉 the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 schisme and disseâ—… 〈…〉 Teachers by stigmatiâ—… 〈…〉 Teacherâ— and 〈◊〉 them by declâ—ring them 〈…〉 the Church â—oâ—…tters of souls and â—acitely 〈…〉 words unto whom we gave no such 〈…〉 â—o â—e 〈…〉 of the Apostles and Elderâ— of Jerusâ—… 〈…〉 to Preach this Doctrine Thâ—… 〈…〉 of censure and â—ended to more if they 〈…〉 incorâ—igible and obstiâ—…◠But 〈…〉 good earâ—est when as he sayeth 〈…〉 of the Synodicall Epistle to 〈◊〉 Churchâ—… 〈…〉 to these matters 〈◊〉 give couâ—sell 〈…〉 Churches and wish that for thâ— purpose they 〈◊〉 Wrâ—…en not with 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 c. as if forâ—ooth because the Synoâ—â—nd their decrees in an Epistle which was a respectfull way because they recommend the practice and obediâ—… of them by the goodnesse thâ—reof this did necessarily imporâ— they did not enjoin them by authority but only advised them by way of Christian counsell Verily such reasoning â—…red with such a â—hetoricall wish Would they were Written c. I think may blâ—sh in the present of any intelligent man As for that bitter â—ccuâ—…tion the Authâ—r gives in against all Presbyters he meâ—… Presbyteriâ—ns not Presbyters of his own way sure as turbuâ—ent persons we wish the Lord may lay it to his conscience but not to his charge For ouâ— selves it being cast upon us for no other cause but for standing to the maintainance and avowing of the Cause of Jesus Christ and the due authority of his Ordinances we shall â—…ntly 〈◊〉 our selves with that of his Blessed are ye when men 〈…〉 you and shall say all manner of evill against 〈…〉 for my sake so persecuted they the Prâ—pheâ—s which were before you section 19 His second reason aâ—…edged to prove this Synod did exercise only a power of counsell Sect. 3â— in 〈◊〉 iâ— this much The conâ—roversie decided in this Synod being between the Church of Antioch and some Judaizing Tâ—achers it is evident that one side in the Synod was a party to wit them of Antioâ—h Now for these who were a party and â—ontested against their opposites to be judge in their own cause and to be juridicall upon their Antagonists by their own power cannot equiâ—ably or conscionably be imagined It is saith Hooker against rule Answ I remember this very objection is one of the grounds of thâ—… Protestation and Declinator made by the Remonstrants against that 〈…〉 Reverend Synod of Dort Because to wit a great part of the Members of the Synod were their adverse party had by Preaching and Writing before condemned their Doctrine 〈◊〉 errour and that the Law of Nature doth not permit that 〈…〉 be judge in their own cause Which 〈…〉 unanimous suffrage of the 〈…〉 â—ull and the reasons whereupon they did 〈◊〉 it which are to be seen in the acts of the Synod â—ess â—9 do abundantly refuse this reason alledged to prove that this Synod 〈…〉 did only exercise a power of counsell and 〈…〉 authoritatively determine the mater 〈…〉 Not being willing to fill up much paper with transcriptionâ— I 〈◊〉 the judicious Reâ—der to the suffrages of these reverend and learned Diviâ—… themselves for more full satisfaction For the present brieâ—… it is a grosse mistake of our Author and Mr. Hooker from whom â—e hath it that these Commissioners of the Church of Antioâ—h members of this Synod if the Synod did juâ—…dically and authoritatively judg and determine in the mater that was before them did judge in their own cause if he mean their own proper private cause the â—…ter of their judgement was not the proper private cause 〈◊〉 any member of the Synod but the publick cause of GOD and his Church the doctrine of justificatiâ—… which the Judaâ—…ing Teachers did corrupt and the peace of the Church which they disturbed Now thâ— persons cannot be both an adverse party and Judge in their own private cause which concerneth themselves yet in a publick cause this may be Even in civill maters this may and must be in some cases The persons that constitute the supream Judicatory of a Nation suppose the Parliament they are both adverse party and Judge in publick causes as in maters of treason c. Especially this exception from that Maâ—ime which is alledged that persons cannot be both adverse party and Judge in their own cause must not have place in maters and controversies of Religion otherwise there could be no judiciall way at all for condemning false and haereticall Teachers For certain it is that all Ministers of Jesus Christ are oblidged by their Calling and the Commandement of God not only to teach and instruct the people of God positively in the truth â—ut also to reâ—ute the errors and stop the mouths of opposers and adversaries of the Truth so that when any broach and vent errors in the Church of God the Ministers of Christ must not stand neutrals and indifferent but must and ought both by word and wriâ— reâ—uâ—e â—nd 〈◊〉 them and be an adverse party to tâ—…m Must they therefore because they do their duty in opposing Teachers of errors in their severall particular stations be uncapable in an Assembly to judge and condemne these errors and abettors of them judicially Verily this were nothing else but to proclaim 〈◊〉 to 〈…〉 spirits in the world to teach and spread 〈…〉 without any controlement in an Ecclesiasticall way And veâ—…ly this principle That persons that are an adverse party to false Teachers in maters of Religion cannot be Judgeâ— on the controversie between them and these Teachers was very far from the the thoughts of
and much worse I will not say the worst that might be said but shall rather pray God to be mercifull to you in this matter so blinded with prejudice and transported with passion far otherwise then becometh a man professing to have the meek and wise Spirit of Christ 1. If speaking so broadly he mean of Presbyterian Churches through the World as indeed your discourse here for pulling them down and separating from them runneth generally without any exception or limitation that for their matter three parts of four are naught prophane atheists c. What bold and blind conjecturing is this 2. If ye mean only the Church of Scotland and that therein three parts of four are naught prophane atheists both Elders and people Yet I say who art thou that judgeth another mans servant No doubt many amongst us are nothing such as they ought to be and it has been alwayes so for the most part in Churches from the beginning But that they are so many and so grosse prophane atheists both people and Elders for a man that is a stranger to the most part of our Churches Elders and people thereof to pronounce so peremptorly is more then he dare answer to God or his own conscience upon second considerat thoughts 3. Suppose it were so indeed that three of four in Churches were naught yet supposing in Churches there be the true Doctrine of the Gospel Preached the Sacraments for their substance and essentialls agreeable to their institution the acts of worship for matter pure must therefore Gods people separat from those Churches and the true Ordinances and Worship of God therein Or must the Churches be pulled down and plucked up root and branch Shew us warrand either of precept or practice for this in the whole Word of God Nay the strain of Prophets Apostles and Christ himself are clearly as the Sun-shine against it How often was it so with the ancient Church that we may say more then three parts of four were prophane and naught And yet did not the Godly and the Prophets of the Lord continue in the exercise of the Ordinances and Worship of God in that Church Was it not so in the Church of the Jews in the time of Christ being amongst them upon earth Did ever Christ for that require his Disciples to depart and separat from that Church Or did he not himself never a white the lesse continue in the Church communion thereof Yea when in glory writing a Letter to the Church of Sardis of whom he testifies that they had a name that they were living but yet were dead and that there were but a few names there which had not defiled their garments Yet his wise and meek zeal is not for pulling down and rooting up and separating from the Church Communion in his Ordinances and Worship But that is his direction v. 2 3. Be watchfull and strengthen the things which remain and are ready to die Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard and hold fast and repent 4. But suppose that de facto in some Churches the generality of persons Elders and people were so grosse and abominably prophane that there were no living for godly ones amongst them is this a good Argument to prove that the very species and kinde must be destroyed and plucked up root and branch Unlesse that Mr. Lockier could shew that the way of Presbyterian Churches of it self in its very kind allowes Churches to be constitute so of persons notoriously prophane and atheists that will not follow But if he shall say this we will avow it to be a slander 5. When as he will have our Churches to be destitute of a right forme because they are not united by way of their Church-Covenant but are knit together only by situation and by forrain forensicall Elderships And upon this account will have them no Churches but only carcasses of Churches It is utterly false that we make situation or cohabitation in place or a forrain Eldership the form of our Churches We say according to the Word of God that the form which gives the being to the Universall Church Visible and unto every member thereof is the profession of and entering unto that generall Covenant with God in his Son Jesus Christ and whereby every Christian is oblidged and engaged to walk in all the wayes of God and perform all duties towards God and other Christians in all their relations required of them according as God giveth opportunity and occasion to perform and exercise them As for Mr. Lockiers Church-Covenant distinct from that generall Covenant with God in Christ as the form of a particular Church giving it the being of a Church and right to the Ordinances of Christ 't is nothing else but a new device of men having no warrand of precept or example in the Word of God either of the Old or New Testament And his un-Churching of our Churches for want of such a Covenant as this is like many other things in this peece has more boldnesse in it then understanding or reason Concerning this matter of the Church-Covenant See Mr. Rutherfurd Due Right of Presbytery Caudrey Review of Mr. Hookers Survey cap. 4. Gul. Apollon Consider of certain Controversies section 6 Mr. Lockier going on yet more to vent his Brounisticall separation objects to himself thus SECT 54. But will no my protest serve the turn If things be corrupt in the Church and I protest against them may not I go on with that Church As for instance If they take in corrupt members or admit corrupt or impenitent communicants And I protest against those may I not go on and partake with these and yet be innocent and enjoy as much presence of God in his Ordinances as if all were holy and good To which he answereth SECT 55. 1. If protesting were only words then such a thing will do But to say the precious should not mingle with the vile and yet the man doth this daily and continually is not to protest but to mock and dissemble Because here is not a meer passivenesse in this man as to the going on in that thing which he protests against 2. Again in practical things t is not so much a mans word as his practice which gives the dislike If a man of an idolatrous Church should stand up and protest against the Masse and yet still go to Masse I doubt how well this would please God or deliver him from guilt Naaman implicitely protests against the idolatry he had practised that he would worship no God but the God of Israel and did he continue to bow down Yes say some but he begs pardon for it But most aptly in our last English Annot. The word being rendered in the time past Pardon that I bowed down 3. Protesting is a piece of revenge which is the vehemence of Repentance and the clearing of ones self which how well this will accord with halting and halving is worthy of deep thoughts of heart Can two
walk together c. 4. And our Brethren when they protest against an Assembly do not submit unto it section 7 Here is sweet stuffe forsooth very Brounisticall separation ingrain'd That if any things be corrupted in a Church suppose wicked and scandalous persons be retained therein and admitted to Ordinances albeit therein be the true Doctrine of the Gospel Preached and worship for the acts thereof and other Ordinances for their substance right Godly Christians must separate from such Churches and may not in the very instituted Ordinances of Christ and true exercise of worship joyn with such Churches wherein such wicked persons joins with them This is the drift and upshot of this passage as any discerning man may perceive tho it be very intricately and confusedly expressed We shall not need to fall upon a refutation of this vile errour which has been so learnedly and fully refuted of old by the Orthodox Ancients especially Augustin and Optatus in Donatists by the first Reformers in the fantastick Anabaptists See particularly Mr. Rutherfurds Learned Disputes on this purpose in his Peaceable Plea and in his Due Right of Presbytery I shall for the present note but some few things on that which Mr. Lockier hath here section 8 And first to the propounding of the case in the Object as it is so generally and comprehensively expressed If things be corrupted in the Church and I protest against them may I not go on with that Church We owne not the affirmative of it We acknowledge that it is not lawfull to go on with any Church in the practice of things that are corrupt in it 2. We acknowledge further that there may be such corrupt things in a Church or a society taking unto them the name and profession of a Church as that it is not lawfull to go on with such a Church or join with them in Church communion at all as where the Worship is grossely idolatrous or Doctrine is publickly taught or professed contrary to the very foundation of Christianity But bring the case to the particular corruption instanced by the Author and then we say that if in a Church through negligence or loosnesse of discipline corrupt members be admitted or wicked scandalous persons be admitted to the Communion the Godly indeed ought in an orderly way to testify against such a corruption to say to Archippus to the Minister and Rulers take heed to your Ministry to mourn for such abuses in the Church But ought not to separat from that Church and the exercise of the true Worship and Ordinances of Christ therein But may go on and partake with that Church in warranted acts of Worship participation of the Sacraments in the exercise of all Gods instituted Ordinances and yet be free of the sin of corrupt fellow partakers of these Ordinances and of the sin of Rulers sinfully admitting such enjoy Gods presence in the Ordinances as well as if all joining with them were holy and good and to say that other mens wickednesses in abuse of Ordinances prejudices or defiles these Ordinances to me using them aright for my self and testifying against mourning for others abuse thereof is a wild errour contrary to the stream of holy Scripture both in the Old and new Test as has been abundantly demonstrated by these I last mentioned section 9 Now for his exceptions against this To the first to protest against a thing as evil and wicked and yet daily and continually to go on in the acting of that thing and practizing it is indeed a wicked mocking of God and man But daily and continually to go on in the exercise of a lawfull and necessary duty in the company of wicked persons against whose wickednesse I do testifie and does all that is incumbent to me in my station is not to mock or dissemble nor to do the thing I protest against I am but a mere passive or has no concurrence to the wickednesse of others But there is here in Mâ— Lockiers words a grosse supposing or begging of the very thing mainly in Question viz. That if wicked persons be admitted to fellowship in a Church as to the communion of the Lords Supper that the thing a Godly Christian ought to protest or testifie against is all joyning in the Ordinance when such wicked persons are joining therein with them This is a very begging of the thing in Question and utterly false The thing the Godly ought to testifie and protest against is the wickeds presuming to abuse the Ordinance and the Rulers sinfull permitting them so to do But to say he does or should protest that no Godly person ought to use the Ordinance of God or performe warrantable Worship when wicked persons either thrust themselves in with them or negligent Rulers permits them so to do is to suppose the thing in Question and is unwarrantable yea contrare to the current streame of the practise of the Godly under the Old and New Testament both yea to the practise of Jesus Christ himself in the Church of the Jews To his second exception 'T is true in practicall things it is not so much a mans word as his practise which gives the dislike But the Question is whether the performance of a lawfull and necessary duty of worship or exercise of a true Ordinance of Jesus Christ for instance partaking of the Lords Supper to remember his death till he come againe when and where wicked and scandalous persons will thrust themselves in to do it prophanely or are permitted by Rulers so to do be such a practicall thing as I am oblidged to dislike as a thing unlawfull for me to do this is the Question the negative whereof we hold to be the truth of God held forth in his Word The instance produced by the Author for clearing this his second exception viz. of a man in an Idolatrous Church protesting against the Masse and yet still going to Masse is so grossely and absurdly impertinent that one may wonder how it could be alledged in this purpose by an intelligent man The Masse is even upon the mater one of the grossest Idolatries that ever was in the world And for a man to go to Masse when he pretends to protest to go against it is to adde to commission of Idolatry mocking of God and sinning against light professedly So that Mr. Lockier needed not make it a mater of doubting how well such a practise should please God or deliver the man from guiltinesse But what is this to participating of a true Ordinance of Jesus Christ for instance the communion of the Lords Table in a Church not Idolatrous but may be negligent and loose in the exercise of Discipline and permitting wicked scandalous persons to participate in that Ordinance when the Godly participating with them testifies against such abuse in the Ordinances Nay can it be freed from great rashnesse I will not say that which I might to parallel these two together But yet farther to bring in as a parallel
terrour of this Text for that section 16 The place Rev. 3. 10. spoken to the Church of Philadelphia is but abused For 1. What warrand is there to expone that hour of temptation spoken of there of the time immediatly before the Calling of the Jews And the Church of Philadelphia in a typicall sense of some Churches to be then 'T is too much boldnesse to force such typicall Interpretations upon Scripture where the Spirit of God in the Word goeth not before us to warrand us 'T is true Reverend Brightman hâ—s Interpreted all the Churches and the things written to them as types of other Churches in these latter dayes But 1. All solide Divines have shown their discontentment with his conceit as groundlesse 2. Yet doth not he understand by Philadelphia such Churches immediatly before the incalling of the Jews as Mr. Lockier fancies But hes expresly named some present Churches which he will have to 〈◊〉 signified thereby Geneva France Low-Countreys and with the rest even that Church of Scotland which Mr. Lockier counts an evill vessell that will be broken in pieces and that because of the order and Government set up in them 3. The place speaks not here of cutting off Churches but of trying the Inhabitants of the World 4. If these Churches typified by Philadelphia are not to be cut off because of their constitution like its how comes that it self which was the Patern and to whom this word was spoken in the first instance and place hath been cut off section 17 The place of Daniel is as grossely abused What ground or appearance can Mr. Lockier give us that the Holy Ghost means one and the same time Daniel 12. and Rev. 3. in the Epistle of Philadelphia He sayeth by these words Daniel 12. 1. It doth plainly appear that this hour of temptation viz. Rev. 3. 10. will be immediatly before the Calling of the Jews and he doth no more but say it Learned men and that upon considerable grounds and reasons have conceived that time Daniel 12. 1. not to be a time after Christs first comming but before it the time of Antiochus persecution And must Mr. Lockiers naked assertion without reason that it is a time immediatly before the Jews incalling be sufficient to obtain beliefe section 18 The New Jerusalem spoken of Rev. 21. is groundlessely expounded to be the Visible Church of the Jews as contradistinguished from the Church of the Gentiles And I verily think that it cannot be understood of the Church upon earth at all ver 22. seemeth to me to speak this much clearly The place Isa 11. 7. is also grossely missapplyed to the Visible Church of Gentiles to be joyned with the Visible Church of the Jews after their incalling it being clearly a Prophesie concerning the Universall Church of the Gospel reaching along from the time of Christs first comming unto the end as all Interpreters expound it and the context it self holdeth it forth evidently And so is the place of Zechariah pointed at to be understood The hint at Jer. 12. 9. where that ancient people are likned to a speckled bird as if thereby were meant that because that Church in its visible constitution was mixed of â—ypocrites with the Godly therefore it is called a speckled bird and that upon that account they were casten off might make a man laugh were we not on a serious matter and it s rather a mater of mourning to see Scripture and so much of it so wrested The simple meaning of the words being this that as a wilde strange bird of an uncouth colour coming in among other birds all flieth about it and pursueth it So because the people were become uncouth estranged from God wilde untame the Lord would raise up the Nations round about to destroy them But what meaneth Mr. Lockier to speak here of the casting off the ancient Visible Church of the Jews under the Old Testament for not constituting their outward Visible society of all truely Saints but suffering it to be speckled Seeing all along this discourse he hes restricted his Doctrine concerning the mater of the Visible Church to the dayes of the Gospel As for his inference wherewith he closeth consequently the allowed mater of a Visible Church Remember we are speaking of Mater allowed in relation to the outward Ecclesiastick Court its proceeding in admitting persons to externall Church fellowship now in the dayes of the Gospel are persons truely holy we say it followeth not upon any thing you have been alledging in this paragraph For were all granted you have been writing out of these places all comes to this that God sometime after this will bring the Church Visible to such an estate that all in it shall be truely holy de facto But dispensations of efficacious grace are not a rule of Ecclesiastick proceeding in admitting persons to the outward communion of the Visible Church SECTION VII A short modest reply to Mr. Lockyers bitter use made of his Doctrine section 1 I had heard oftentimes before this time Mr. Lockier commended for a man of an ingenuous humble meek sweet spirit and when I read the Epistle of his three Brethren prefixed to this Peece wherein they called him a soft sweet whisperer I expected to have found him such here But sure I am any impartiall man who readeth his Use and application of his Doctrine may see great want of ingenuity and such bitternesse vented against men desirous to keep the truth and to walk before God in simplicity and godly sincerity as becometh not any man of a Christian spirit and the like whereof could hardly been expected to come from the very sons of Babel themselves against any Protestants section 2 He begins with this Take heed then of setting against a Church of such a complexion and constitution Wilt thou oppose a thing because it is as it ought to be To whom do you speak Mr. Lockier To us who oppose your Doctrine concerning the necessary qualification of Church members in relation to externall Church fellowâ—hip Do we by opposing this oppose a thing because it is such as it ought to be Nay we do but oppose you who sayes the Church Visible as such ought to be even in the Ecclesiastick Court that which God never said in his Word that it ought to be and makes the door of the Visible Church straiter then ever the Lord made it and so in effect disclaimes the way allowed by God himself for ordering his Church as not wise enough nor accurate enough Or do we set our selves against a Church of such complexion and constitution as you descrive consisting of all truly godly so far as men can judge God forbid and far be it from us were there such a Church in the world of such complexion and constitution it should be very dear and precious in our estimation and we should blesse the Lord for the riches and power of his grace bestowed upon them We wish from our souls that our Churches