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duty_n church_n communion_n particular_a 2,155 5 7.6323 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A91654 A reply of two of the brethren to A.S. wherein you have observations on his considerations, annotations, &c. Upon the apologeticall narration. With a plea for libertie of conscience for the apologists church way; against the cavils of the said A. S. formerly called M. S. to A. S. Humbly submitted to the judgements of all rationall, and moderate men in the world. With a short survey of W. R. his Grave confutation of the separation, and some modest, and innocent touches on the letter from Zeland, and Mr. Parker's from New-England. Parker, Thomas, 1595-1677.; Steuart, Adam. 1644 (1644) Wing R1048B; Thomason E54_18; ESTC R2612 108,370 124

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have_v a_o free_a voluntary_a recourse_n out_o of_o conscience_n to_o the_o brotherly_a advice_n of_o neighbour_n church_n or_o a_o synod_n dogmatical_o to_o declare_v christ_n mind_n unto_o we_o and_o in_o case_n of_o refusal_n to_o submit_v to_o their_o judgement_n have_v no_o ground_n in_o scripture_n to_o refuse_v the_o advise_v church_n to_o renounce_v communion_n with_o the_o offend_a church_n and_o the_o particular_a church_n to_o pronounce_v excommunication_n against_o their_o offend_a brother_n so_o that_o the_o difference_n be_v not_o in_o ente_fw-la sed_fw-la modo_fw-la not_o in_o the_o thing_n but_o the_o manner_n rather_o we_o say_v therefore_o it_o be_v your_o duty_n to_o give_v we_o our_o own_o our_o liberty_n as_o much_o if_o not_o more_o as_o we_o to_o let_v you_o alone_o while_o both_o party_n avouch_v that_o they_o be_v unconvince_v as_o yet_o of_o a_o possibility_n of_o a_o near_a agreement_n we_o know_v not_o of_o the_o least_o clause_n of_o a_o sentence_n or_o 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but_o one_o church_n ergo_fw-la apologisme_n be_v intolerable_a they_o that_o can_v gather_v this_o conclusion_n out_o of_o the_o premise_n may_v very_o well_o hope_v to_o gather_v grape_n of_o thorn_n and_o fig_n of_o thistle_n the_o consequent_a in_o this_o argument_n which_o the_o disputer_n say_v be_v false_a be_v this_o church_n must_v be_v different_a in_o their_o species_n if_o the_o meaning_n of_o this_o consequent_a be_v that_o there_o be_v a_o absolute_a necessity_n that_o church_n shall_v differ_v specie_fw-la one_o from_o another_o the_o disputant_n be_v in_o the_o truth_n in_o say_v the_o consequent_a be_v false_a or_o if_o the_o meaning_n be_v that_o church_n ought_v to_o differ_v specie_fw-la one_o from_o another_o the_o same_o verdict_n may_v still_o pass_v upon_o it_o but_o upon_o that_o supposition_n which_o be_v make_v in_o the_o antecedent_n of_o this_o argument_n viz._n that_o these_o church_n have_v discipline_n or_o government_n different_a in_o their_o species_n the_o consequent_a be_v not_o only_o true_a but_o necessary_o true_a and_o that_o upon_o the_o disputant_n own_o ground_n which_o be_v that_o all_o collective_a body_n that_o be_v govern_v be_v difference_v specie_fw-la by_o their_o different_a government_n but_o be_v the_o consequent_a or_o be_v the_o antecedent_n or_o be_v the_o consequence_n be_v any_o thing_n be_v nothing_o or_o be_v every_o thing_n in_o the_o premise_n either_o true_a or_o false_a why_o sho●●d_v not_o the_o apologist_n be_v tolerate_v notwithstanding_o be_v the_o sun_n in_o aries_n or_o be_v it_o in_o taurus_n or_o be_v it_o in_o capricorn_n why_o shall_v not_o a._n s._n be_v tolerate_v to_o write_v more_o book_n for_o the_o cause_n presbyterian_a notwithstanding_o i_o hear_v that_o upon_o the_o applause_n and_o approbation_n of_o this_o by_o his_o party_n he_o have_v since_o put_v forth_o his_o hand_n to_o another_o 3._o acts._n 12.2_o 3._o as_o herod_n see_v
have_v of_o your_o person_n etc._n etc._n except_o only_o in_o your_o particular_a opinion_n wherein_o the_o dissent_n from_o all_o protestant_n yea_o all_o christian_a church_n in_o the_o world_n m._n s._n now_o let_v the_o protestant_a church_n to_o who_o you_o say_v you_o submit_v judge_v whether_o in_o these_o word_n there_o be_v not_o a_o notorious_a untruth_n for_o wherein_o do_v the_o five_o minister_n and_o their_o church_n differ_v from_o many_o church_n in_o england_n diverse_a in_o holland_n and_o general_o all_o within_o the_o patent_n of_o new-england_n if_o you_o account_v these_o place_n protestant_a it_o may_v be_v you_o will_v object_v mr._n parker_n letter_n and_o some_o manuscript_n from_o new-england_n and_o the_o letter_n from_o zealand_n to_o mr._n parker_n his_o letter_n we_o need_v say_v little_a the_o letter_n will_v answer_v for_o we_o though_o mr._n parker_n little_a thought_n when_o he_o write_v it_o to_o find_v a_o a._n s._n in_o england_n or_o that_o his_o brother_n bayly_n will_v have_v print_v his_o letter_n seem_o to_o anticipate_v the_o disputation_n of_o the_o assembly_n as_o if_o he_o mean_v to_o beg_v the_o question_n though_o but_o with_o show_n and_o shadow_n 1._o mr._n parker_n say_v not_o one_o word_n for_o a_o classical_a presbytery_n the_o main_a difference_n in_o hand_n but_o for_o a_o congregationall_a that_o he_o will_v have_v in_o some_o thing_n more_o manage_v by_o the_o presbytery_n of_o every_o congregation_n without_o put_v every_o thing_n to_o the_o vote_n of_o the_o people_n of_o the_o congregation_n because_o some_o confusion_n have_v follow_v upon_o it_o do_v in_o necessary_n abuse_v take_v away_o the_o use_n there_o be_v confusion_n in_o the_o church_n of_o corinth_n or_o be_v there_o any_o mention_n of_o this_o in_o the_o apology_n that_o all_o business_n of_o the_o church_n must_v be_v put_v to_o the_o vote_n of_o the_o congregation_n 2._o that_o in_o that_o thing_n only_o there_o have_v be_v a_o argue_v on_o both_o side_n m._n parker_n &_o mr._n noise_n only_o be_v mention_v in_o the_o letter_n to_o be_v on_o the_o one_o side_n &_o all_o the_o other_o church_n on_o the_o other_o against_o mr._n parker_n and_o mr._n noise_n and_o 3_o mr._n parker_n do_v not_o say_v he_o win_v the_o day_n but_o as_o he_o answer_v their_o argument_n as_o he_o say_v so_o he_o confess_v they_o answer_v his_o argument_n and_o the_o thing_n be_v leave_v to_o consideration_n yea_o a_o godly_a man_n of_o new-england_n tell_v i_o that_o the_o church_n of_o new-england_n do_v conceive_v that_o mr._n parker_n have_v receive_v full_a satisfaction_n from_o they_o in_o that_o point_n how_o ever_o it_o be_v all_o amount_v but_o to_o a_o private_a letter_n subscribe_v by_o one_o man_n yet_o imprimatur_fw-la say_v 1_n c._n as_o if_o much_o to_o the_o purpose_n but_o take_v but_o a_o little_a afterward_o to_o our_o answer_n to_o a_o letter_n from_o zealand_n and_o you_o shall_v find_v the_o judgement_n of_o new-england_n in_o letter_n new_o come_v over_o to_o any_o private_a copy_n or_o manuscript_n from_o new-england_n one_o mr._n rutherf●●d_n have_v answer_v as_o too_o much_o jump_v with_o the_o apology_n and_o opposite_a to_o classical_a presbytery_n another_o if_o it_o have_v come_v forth_o will_v have_v be_v keen_a against_o a._n s._n then_o the_o apology_n be_v so_o that_o if_o the_o apology_n do_v differ_v from_o that_o it_o be_v only_a because_o the_o apology_n more_o agree_v with_o the_o reform_a church_n of_o this_o island_n and_o for_o the_o three_o it_o have_v nothing_o at_o all_o for_o classical_a presbytery_n but_o some_o thing_n touch_v the_o order_n of_o congregationall_a presbytery_n and_o all_o these_o be_v but_o private_a intelligencer_n and_o mutual_a adviser_n not_o determination_n or_o national_a no_o more_o then_o i_o suppose_v mr._n cranford_n or_o a._n s._n will_v account_v the_o strange_a query_n on_o the_o apology_n and_o scotch_a commissioner_n reply_v to_o be_v the_o sense_n of_o new-england_n though_o make_v by_o one_o of_o that_o country_n as_o for_o the_o letter_n of_o zealand_n i_o can_v tell_v how_o to_o speak_v all_o the_o truth_n &_o not_o offend_v some_o who_o by_o my_o will_n i_o will_v not_o in_o the_o least_o displease_v sure_o this_o will_v not_o offend_v to_o tell_v a._n s._n that_o in_o holland_n if_o not_o in_o zealand_n be_v some_o church_n that_o be_v full_o with_o the_o five_o minister_n unto_o which_o some_o of_o they_o do_v relate_v and_o to_o speak_v these_o thing_n to_o the_o letter_n itself_o be_v matter_n of_o fact_n i_o hope_v can_v just_o offend_v 1._o that_o that_o letter_n come_v admirable_o punctual_a upon_o the_o very_a nick_n after_o the_o first_o reply_n to_o the_o apology_n be_v out_o 2._o that_o a_o scottish_a knight_n as_o it_o be_v inform_v nine_o or_o ten_o day_n before_o it_o be_v know_v abroad_o that_o the_o letter_n be_v to_o come_v say_v what_o if_o you_o receive_v a_o letter_n from_o zealand_n dislike_a the_o apology_n or_o to_o that_o effect_n 3._o that_o there_o be_v a_o scottish_a church_n of_o which_o one_o spang_n be_v a_o very_a busy_a agent_n at_o trevere_a hard_a by_o middleborough_n whence_o the_o letter_n come_v 4._o that_o there_o be_v in_o it_o many_o high_a passage_n seem_v to_o some_o so_o prejudicial_a to_o our_o worthy_a magistracy_n that_o it_o justify_v that_o of_o the_o apology_n say_v that_o the_o five_o minister_n etc._n etc._n give_v more_o to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n than_o the_o principle_n of_o some_o presbyterian_o do_v the_o say_a letter_n give_v so_o too_o little_a to_o the_o magistracy_n that_o the_o state_n of_o england_n i_o think_v can_v approve_v it_o here_o among_o we_o verbum_fw-la sapientisat_fw-la est_fw-la more_o may_v be_v think_v upon_o evident_a ground_n but_o not_o speak_v here_o 5._o most_o happy_o by_o almost_o a_o miraculary_a providence_n in_o this_o nick_n of_o time_n come_v two_o letter_n from_o new-england_n to_o countermand_v mr._n parker_n letter_n thence_o and_o the_o other_o from_o zealand_n the_o first_o from_o mr._n winthorp_n governor_n of_o new_a england_n to_o his_o reverend_a and_o very_a good_a brother_n mr._n hugh_n peter_n minister_n of_o the_o gospel_n these_o deliver_v in_o london_n our_o late_a assembly_n of_o about_o forty_o elder_n meet_v wherein_o the_o way_n of_o our_o church_n be_v approve_v and_o the_o presbytery_n disallow_v winthorp_n governor_n decemb._n 10._o 1643._o the_o second_o from_o another_o of_o new-england_n to_o another_o minister_n in_o old-england_n about_o the_o same_o time_n wherein_o we_o have_v these_o passage_n we_o have_v have_v say_v he_o a_o synod_n late_o in_o our_o college_n wherein_o sundry_a thing_n be_v agree_v on_o grave_o as_o that_o the_o vote_n of_o the_o people_n be_v needful_a in_o all_o admission_n and_o excommunication_n at_o least_o in_o way_n of_o consent_n all_o yield_v to_o act_v with_o their_o consent_n 2._o that_o those_o that_o be_v fit_a matter_n for_o a_o church_n though_o they_o be_v not_o always_o able_a to_o make_v large_a and_o particular_a relation_n of_o the_o work_n and_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n yet_o must_v not_o live_v in_o the_o commission_n of_o any_o know_a sin_n or_o the_o neglect_n of_o any_o know_a duty_n 3._o that_o consociation_n of_o church_n in_o way_n of_o more_o general_a meeting_n yearly_o and_o more_o private_a monthly_a or_o quarterly_o as_o consultative_n synod_n be_v very_o comfortable_a and_o necessary_a for_o the_o peace_n and_o good_a of_o the_o church_n 4._o it_o be_v general_o desire_v that_o the_o exercitium_fw-la of_o the_o church_n power_n may_v only_o be_v in_o the_o eldership_n in_o each_o particular_a church_n unless_o their_o sin_n be_v apparent_a in_o their_o work_n 5._o that_o parish_n church_n in_o old_a england_n can_v not_o be_v right_a without_o a_o renew_a covenant_n at_o least_o and_o the_o refuser_n exclude_v and_o be_v not_o new-england_n so_o far_o the_o church_n of_o new-england_n will_v soon_o send_v a_o three_o punctual_o to_o approve_v the_o apology_n unless_o it_o be_v for_o their_o merer_n compliance_n with_o they_o who_o notwithstanding_o have_v write_v against_o they_o we_o have_v be_v the_o long_o in_o answer_n to_o this_o clause_n because_o we_o find_v a._n s._n to_o be_v but_o the_o text_n of_o other_o man_n commentary-discourse_n who_o say_v that_o the_o five_o minister_n will_v oppose_v all_o the_o visible_a christian_a church_n in_o the_o world_n if_o they_o do_v it_o be_v not_o such_o a_o wonder_n as_o for_o one_o wickliff_n in_o one_o age_n one_o husse_n in_o another_o and_o luther_n in_o a_o three_o to_o oppose_v all_o the_o world_n the_o truth_n be_v all_o church_n general_o partly_o by_o tyranny_n and_o partly_o by_o security_n be_v grow_v so_o corrupt_a that_o to_o apologise_v for_o a_o through_o reformation_n seem_v to_o reprove_v all_o
sect._n 24._o concern_v that_o coercive_a power_n we_o speak_v of_o in_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n he_o must_v first_o prove_v that_o these_o king_n be_v invest_v with_o that_o power_n which_o they_o exercise_v in_o matter_n of_o religion_n by_o a_o moral_a law_n and_o which_o be_v of_o perpetual_a obligation_n and_o engagement_n upon_o other_o nation_n for_o such_o a_o weak_a man_n as_o i_o will_v rather_o incline_v to_o think_v that_o it_o be_v confer_v upon_o they_o by_o a_o law_n politic_n and_o judicial_a and_o which_o no_o more_o concern_v or_o oblige_v king_n and_o magistrate_n of_o other_o nation_n than_o that_o law_n mention_v in_o the_o same_o place_n with_o it_o and_o which_o indeed_o be_v part_n of_o it_o deut._n 13._o which_o injoyn_v the_o slay_v of_o the_o inhabitant_n of_o the_o idolatrous_a city_n with_o the_o edge_n of_o the_o sword_n and_o the_o destroy_n of_o it_o utter_o with_o all_o that_o be_v therein_o and_o the_o cattle_n thereof_o with_o the_o edge_n of_o the_o sword_n and_o the_o gather_n of_o all_o the_o spoil_n thereof_o into_o the_o midst_n of_o the_o street_n thereof_o and_o the_o burn_a of_o the_o city_n with_o fire_n and_o all_o the_o spoil_n thereof_o every_o whit_n and_o the_o make_v it_o a_o heap_n for_o ever_o and_o the_o not_o build_v it_o again_o i_o think_v a._n s._n himself_o do_v not_o conceive_v christian_a king_n or_o magistrate_n engage_v in_o conscience_n to_o observe_v all_o the_o particular_n in_o this_o law_n 8._o and_o last_o if_o you_o consult_v with_o those_o passage_n in_o the_o law_n where_o that_o power_n which_o the_o king_n of_o judah_n exercise_v about_o idolatry_n and_o idolater_n 25._o sect._n 25._o for_o they_o go_v no_o further_o they_o meddle_v not_o with_o the_o crush_a of_o sect_n or_o schism_n as_o we_o hear_v you_o will_v find_v that_o it_o be_v the_o generality_n or_o entire_a body_n of_o the_o church_n or_o nation_n of_o the_o jew_n and_o not_o their_o king_n that_o be_v invest_v with_o it_o by_o god_n see_v deut._n 13._o from_o the_o begin_n to_o the_o end_n and_o again_o deut._n 7.5_o and_o chap._n 12.2_o 3._o with_o many_o of_o like_a consideration_n so_o that_o what_o they_o do_v in_o this_o kind_n they_o do_v it_o or_o be_v to_o have_v do_v it_o in_o the_o name_n and_o with_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o body_n of_o their_o people_n but_o the_o grand_a pillar_n and_o supporter_n of_o this_o coercive_a power_n in_o magistrate_n be_v this_o angry_a and_o discontent_a argument_n what_o will_v you_o have_v all_o religion_n sect_n and_o schism_n tolerate_v in_o christian_a church_n shall_v jew_n turk_n and_o papist_n especial_o be_v suffer_v in_o their_o religion_n what_o a_o confusion_n must_v this_o need_v breed_v both_o in_o church_n and_o state_n give_v i_o leave_v to_o demulce_n and_o pacify_v this_o argument_n and_o then_o we_o advance_v to_o a_o new_a subject_n i_o answer_v by_o distinguish_v 1._o if_o by_o a_o toleration_n 26._o sect._n 26._o the_o argument_n mean_v either_o a_o approbation_n or_o such_o a_o connivance_n which_o either_o take_v no_o knowledge_n of_o or_o however_o no_o way_n oppose_v such_o religion_n sect_n or_o schism_n as_o be_v unwarrantable_a they_o be_v not_o to_o be_v tolerate_v but_o first_o orthodox_n and_o able_a minister_n ought_v in_o the_o course_n of_o their_o public_a ministry_n and_o otherwise_o upon_o occasion_n in_o a_o grave_n sober_a and_o inoffensive_a manner_n sound_o from_o the_o scripture_n to_o evince_v the_o folly_n vanity_n and_o falsehood_n of_o all_o such_o way_n second_o other_o also_o that_o have_v a_o anoint_v of_o light_n and_o knowledge_n from_o god_n be_v bind_v to_o contribute_v occasional_o the_o best_a of_o their_o endeavour_n towards_o the_o same_o end_n three_o in_o case_n the_o minister_n shall_v be_v negligent_a or_o forgetful_a of_o his_o duty_n in_o this_o kind_n the_o magistrate_n may_v and_o aught_o from_o time_n to_o time_n to_o admonish_v he_o that_o he_o fulfil_v his_o ministry_n in_o that_o point_n also_o four_o if_o a_o person_n one_o two_o or_o more_o be_v member_n of_o a_o particular_a church_n shall_v be_v infect_v with_o any_o heretical_a or_o dangerous_a opinion_n and_o after_o two_o or_o three_o admonition_n with_o mean_n of_o conviction_n use_v to_o regain_v he_o shall_v continue_v obstinate_a he_o ought_v to_o be_v cast_v out_o from_o among_o they_o by_o that_o church_n five_o and_o last_o if_o it_o be_v a_o whole_a church_n that_o be_v so_o corrupt_a and_o infect_v the_o rest_n of_o the_o neighbour_n church_n in_o case_n it_o have_v any_o aught_o to_o admonish_v it_o and_o to_o endeavour_v the_o reclaim_n of_o it_o if_o it_o be_v refractory_a after_o competent_a admonition_n and_o mean_v use_v for_o the_o reduce_n of_o it_o they_o may_v and_o aught_o to_o renounce_v communion_n with_o it_o and_o so_o set_v a_o mark_n or_o brand_n of_o heresy_n and_o obstinacy_n in_o the_o forehead_n of_o it_o but_o second_o 27._o sect._n 27._o if_o by_o a_o toleration_n the_o argument_n mean_v a_o non-suppression_n of_o such_o religion_n sect_n and_o schism_n by_o a_o strong_a hand_n as_o by_o fine_v imprison_a disfranchise_n banishment_n death_n or_o the_o like_a my_o answer_n be_v that_o they_o ought_v to_o be_v tolerate_v only_o upon_o this_o supposition_n that_o the_o professor_n or_o maintainer_n of_o they_o be_v otherwise_o peaceable_a in_o the_o state_n and_o every_o way_n subject_n to_o the_o law_n and_o lawful_a power_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n my_o reason_n be_v first_o 28._o sect._n 28._o because_o god_n have_v anoint_v and_o sanctify_v his_o word_n and_o the_o ministry_n hereof_o for_o the_o cast_n down_o imagination_n and_o every_o high_a thing_n that_o exalt_v itself_o against_o the_o knowledge_n of_o god_n and_o for_o the_o bring_n into_o captivity_n every_o thought_n unto_o the_o obedience_n of_o christ_n 2_o cor._n 10.5_o the_o apostle_n in_o this_o place_n v._o 4._o affirm_v that_o the_o weapon_n of_o his_o warfare_n mean_v the_o knowledge_n which_o he_o have_v of_o god_n and_o of_o jesus_n christ_n in_o the_o gospel_n and_o his_o ability_n of_o utterance_n and_o preach_v be_v mighty_a through_o god_n for_o those_o end_n and_o purpose_n when_o god_n have_v appoint_v a_o mean_n and_o that_o of_o so_o much_o efficacy_n and_o power_n either_o to_o prevent_v a_o inconvenience_n or_o to_o accomplish_v any_o end_n or_o effect_v whatsoever_o for_o man_n to_o wave_v this_o mean_n and_o to_o interest_n another_o of_o their_o own_o be_v both_o to_o put_v a_o affront_n upon_o god_n and_o to_o consult_v frustration_n and_o disappointment_n to_o themselves_o and_o for_o my_o part_n i_o be_o all_o thought_n make_v that_o the_o true_a and_o adequate_a reason_n why_o those_o sect_n and_o schism_n and_o wild_a opinion_n which_o be_v late_o start_v among_o we_o gather_v so_o much_o strength_n and_o head_n and_o grow_v so_o fast_o upon_o we_o as_o they_o do_v daily_o be_v this_o that_o we_o reject_v the_o wisdom_n and_o counsel_n of_o god_n for_o the_o oppose_a and_o suppress_v of_o they_o and_o have_v recourse_n to_o our_o own_o arm_n hope_v by_o disgrace_v displace_v waylay_n impoverish_v suspend_v imprison_a and_o other_o weapon_n and_o way_n of_o the_o flesh_n to_o ease_v ourselves_o of_o the_o burthensomnesse_n and_o trouble_n of_o they_o beside_o the_o scripture_n mention_v there_o be_v a_o passage_n of_o full_a importance_n this_o way_n ephes_n 4.11_o 12_o etc._n etc._n and_o he_o give_v some_o apostle_n some_o prophet_n and_o some_o evangelist_n and_o some_o pastor_n and_o teacher_n for_o the_o perfect_a of_o the_o saint_n for_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n for_o the_o edify_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n until_o we_o all_o come_v into_o the_o unity_n of_o faith_n and_o of_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o son_n of_o god_n etc._n etc._n we_o see_v here_o that_o god_n design_n and_o desire_n as_o well_o as_o we_o be_v unity_n and_o perfect_a agreement_n among_o the_o saint_n in_o all_o matter_n of_o faith_n and_o knowledge_n but_o how_o or_o by_o what_o mean_n or_o by_o who_o have_v he_o project_v and_o purpose_v the_o obtain_n of_o this_o his_o desire_n mark_v he_o do_v not_o say_v that_o he_o give_v some_o king_n and_o some_o prince_n and_o some_o judge_n and_o justice_n of_o the_o peace_n some_o pursuivant_n and_o some_o jailer_n etc._n etc._n to_o bring_v we_o into_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o faith_n no_o but_o he_o give_v some_o apostle_n &_o some_o prophet_n and_o some_o evangelist_n and_o some_o pastor_n and_o teacher_n to_o bring_v this_o desirable_a end_n of_o he_o to_o pass_v and_o if_o we_o will_v make_v more_o use_n of_o these_o agent_n and_o instrument_n of_o god_n of_o the_o apostle_n prophet_n evangelist_n of_o pastor_n and_o teacher_n and_o less_o of_o those_o other_o which_o