there_o be_v let_v he_o come_v forth_o to_o own_o it_o that_o advise_v with_o his_o parish-minister_n about_o his_o departure_n or_o be_v so_o civil_a to_o take_v his_o leave_n much_o less_o show_v he_o any_o just_a occasion_n of_o his_o so_o sudden_a resolution_n or_o what_o give_v he_o the_o offence_n in_o the_o person_n or_o administration_n of_o his_o pastor_n or_o in_o the_o worship_n and_o communion_n or_o conversation_n of_o his_o fellow_n member_n and_o move_v or_o dispose_v he_o thereunto_o before_o he_o do_v actual_o separate_v much_o less_o do_v he_o exercise_v any_o patience_n or_o long-suffering_a in_o order_n to_o his_o own_o satisfaction_n or_o the_o reformation_n of_o the_o church_n of_o which_o he_o be_v a_o member_n in_o what_o he_o think_v amiss_o if_o such_o separation_n be_v not_o rash_a and_o sudden_a if_o it_o fail_v not_o in_o the_o due_a manner_n of_o proceed_v show_v your_o reason_n or_o else_o bear_v the_o censure_n and_o charge_n of_o schysm_n from_o all_o sound_n and_o judicious_a casuist_n let_v the_o pretence_n or_o cause_n otherwise_o be_v never_o so_o great_a and_o just_a indeed_o they_o general_o give_v up_o themselves_o with_o all_o manner_n of_o diligence_n to_o obtain_v their_o licenses_fw-la to_o contrive_v their_o house_n to_o appoint_v their_o meeting_n conspire_v in_o this_o as_o appear_v by_o their_o practice_n that_o they_o will_v hold_v their_o assembly_n at_o the_o same_o hour_n with_o the_o parochial_a the_o direct_v method_n they_o can_v imagine_v to_o be_v opposite_a to_o we_o yet_o not_o so_o well_o consider_v what_o may_v be_v the_o consequence_n as_o one_o of_o the_o sober_a of_o their_o minister_n complain_v who_o observe_v it_o too_o late_a which_o have_v they_o have_v patience_n and_o wisdom_n first_o to_o have_v consult_v my_o answerer_n may_v in_o all_o likelihood_n in_o many_o place_n at_o least_o have_v be_v happy_o prevent_v 2._o but_o alas_o this_o be_v not_o the_o burden_n of_o ephraim_n their_o separation_n fail_v in_o the_o foundation_n and_o ground_n of_o it_o it_o be_v not_o accountable_a upon_o any_o term_n of_o charity_n justice_n or_o christian_a sobriety_n strict_o the_o church_n from_o which_o they_o separate_v have_v not_o give_v they_o any_o such_o offence_n or_o cause_n of_o offence_n sufficient_a to_o justify_v their_o separation_n either_o in_o truth_n or_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o any_o but_o themselves_o much_o less_o the_o old_a nonconformist_n and_o presbytâ—rians_n as_o will_n soon_o appear_v in_o full_a light_n our_o answerer_n have_v set_v you_o a_o hard_a game_n to_o play_v here_o for_o you_o must_v show_v we_o such_o reason_n why_o you_o leave_v we_o as_o will_v excuse_v you_o from_o separation_n and_o yet_o justify_v your_o gather_a church_n which_o upon_o the_o supposition_n already_o prove_v that_o our_o church_n be_v true_a church_n that_o you_o be_v or_o aught_o to_o be_v member_n of_o they_o and_o to_o continue_v in_o communion_n with_o they_o while_o you_o live_v in_o they_o if_o we_o have_v give_v you_o no_o just_a occasion_n to_o discontinue_v it_o seem_v to_o be_v a_o plain_a contradiction_n and_o your_o new_a church_n be_v no_o better_a than_o state_v separation_n but_o lay_v aside_o all_o little_a insignificant_a artifices_fw-la and_o modern_a evasion_n the_o question_n in_o short_a be_v this_o whether_o we_o can_v have_v any_o just_a plea_n for_o separation_n from_o any_o church_n of_o which_o we_o be_v member_n while_o we_o may_v communicate_v with_o it_o without_o communion_n in_o sin_n the_o negative_a have_v appear_v all_o set_a party_n have_v subscribe_v the_o negative_a and_o hardly_o any_o but_o yourselves_o ever_o question_v it_o if_o yet_o you_o do_v so_o the_o protestant_n by_o the_o papist_n the_o brownist_n by_o the_o puritan_n the_o anabaptist_n independent_a and_o interpendent_a by_o the_o presbyterian_a be_v all_o charge_v with_o shysm_n and_o all_o without_o scruple_n put_v their_o controversy_n to_o this_o issue_n if_o you_o that_o charge_v we_o with_o schysm_n can_v prove_v that_o we_o may_v hold_v communion_n with_o you_o without_o sin_v we_o acknowledge_v the_o charge_n therefore_o they_o always_o defend_v their_o separation_n by_o charge_a sin_n upon_o their_o communion_n from_o who_o they_o separate_v also_o on_o the_o other_o hand_n they_o endeavour_v to_o make_v the_o charge_n of_o schysm_n upon_o those_o that_o separate_a by_o answer_v the_o objection_n of_o sin_n against_o their_o several_a communion_n so_o that_o on_o all_o side_n this_o sense_n of_o schysm_n pass_v uncontrolled_a and_o be_v never_o i_o think_v dispute_v or_o doubt_v before_o if_o it_o be_v so_o now_o and_o dr._n ames_n have_v put_v it_o into_o the_o very_a definition_n of_o schysm_n and_o make_v it_o his_o great_a rule_n by_o which_o he_o answer_v the_o case_n about_o it_o but_o to_o prevent_v mistake_n i_o must_v speak_v with_o caution_n by_o discontinue_v communion_n i_o do_v not_o mean_v only_o a_o not_o have_v actual_a communion_n with_o the_o church_n for_o that_o may_v be_v involuntary_a as_o when_o a_o man_n be_v excommunicate_v or_o necessitate_v by_o sickness_n or_o if_o you_o will_v have_v it_o add_v by_o too_o great_a a_o multitude_n of_o member_n yea_o it_o may_v chance_v to_o be_v voluntary_a yet_o not_o proper_o schysm_n when_o we_o do_v not_o attend_v god_n worship_n through_o neglect_n of_o our_o duty_n and_o a_o profane_a principle_n but_o of_o these_o we_o speak_v not_o here_o by_o discontinue_v our_o communion_n i_o mean_v a_o deny_v or_o refuse_v communion_n with_o our_o own_o church_n upon_o any_o dislike_n or_o distaste_n of_o its_o worship_n or_o minister_n or_o member_n now_o whether_o this_o distaste_n arise_v from_o fear_n of_o communicate_v in_o sin_n where_o there_o be_v no_o just_a cause_n of_o or_o without_o such_o fear_n such_o refuse_v or_o deny_v communion_n be_v schysm_n yea_o as_o ames_n advise_v if_o there_o be_v real_a evil_n in_o some_o part_n of_o communion_n in_o a_o true_a church_n to_o depart_v far_o from_o it_o than_o that_o evil_n require_v be_v schysm_n so_o when_o there_o be_v no_o real_a or_o pretend_a sinfulness_n in_o the_o communion_n of_o our_o church_n and_o yet_o we_o take_v dislike_n and_o separate_v and_o total_o separate_v and_o gather_v ourselves_o into_o new_a congregation_n in_o opposition_n thereunto_o who_o dare_v say_v this_o be_v no_o schysm_n it_o be_v not_o worth_a the_o question_n though_o you_o some_o where_o make_v it_o whether_o it_o be_v schysm_n to_o remove_v our_o dwell_n from_o one_o parish_n to_o another_o our_o civil_a necessity_n may_v force_v we_o to_o it_o we_o hold_v no_o such_o matrimony_n between_o pastor_n and_o people_n as_o some_o talk_n of_o but_o upon_o fair_a occasion_n either_o may_v remove_v all_o parish_n be_v in_o communion_n together_o and_o be_v of_o the_o general_a constitution_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n by_o such_o a_o removal_n you_o become_v a_o member_n of_o another_o parish_n church_n and_o be_v bind_v by_o the_o law_n of_o the_o land_n and_o by_o the_o rule_n of_o cohabitation_n of_o membership_n to_o hold_v communion_n with_o the_o church_n in_o which_o you_o live_v you_o have_v still_o real_a communion_n with_o the_o former_a church_n not_o only_o in_o the_o substance_n but_o mode_n of_o its_o worship_n and_o its_o very_a constitution_n but_o by_o remove_v to_o these_o new_a church_n you_o do_v not_o you_o can_v cease_v to_o be_v of_o a_o parish_n at_o all_o nor_o of_o a_o parochial_a church_n without_o schysm_n from_o the_o church_n in_o which_o yoâ—_n live_v and_o from_o all_o the_o parochial_a church_n in_o england_n and_o from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n itself_o i_o mean_v unless_o you_o can_v prove_v that_o something_o be_v require_v in_o our_o way_n of_o worship_n that_o you_o can_v join_v in_o without_o sin_v the_o question_n be_v to_o bring_v the_o point_n home_o what_o sin_n be_v to_o be_v find_v in_o our_o worship_n wherein_o the_o people_n that_o join_v with_o we_o must_v needs_o communicate_v if_o none_o can_v be_v find_v we_o must_v write_v schysm_n upon_o your_o separation_n and_o we_o can_v help_v it_o use_v no_o delatory_a plea_n blind_v we_o not_o with_o wide_a discourse_n about_o what_o be_v fit_a to_o be_v impose_v in_o order_n to_o peace_n etc._n etc._n and_o about_o the_o duty_n of_o superior_n that_o concern_v you_o not_o or_o about_o the_o hard_a condition_n of_o conformity_n upon_o minister_n as_o such_o we_o be_v speak_v of_o lay-communion_n wherein_o all_o that_o be_v not_o in_o the_o place_n of_o minister_n be_v to_o look_v to_o their_o duty_n and_o if_o there_o be_v any_o thing_n require_v of_o they_o in_o order_n to_o their_o communion_n with_o we_o that_o be_v indeed_o sinful_a say_v what_o be_v it_o and_o speak_v to_o the_o point_n in_o this_o case_n sir_n be_v judge_n yourself_o you_o express_o
with_o they_o say_v what_o they_o please_v or_o can_v to_o the_o contrary_n be_v schysmaticks_n quod_fw-la erat_fw-la demonstrandum_fw-la i_o only_o assume_v that_o general_o the_o nonconformist_n make_v difference_n in_o our_o church_n draw_v disciple_n from_o they_o and_o renounce_v communion_n with_o they_o quod_fw-la est_fw-la demonstratum_fw-la and_o now_o i_o beg_v leave_n of_o my_o answerer_n to_o conclude_v with_o the_o word_n in_o my_o last_o that_o so_o much_o offend_v he_o that_o i_o be_o sure_a the_o presbyterian_o if_o they_o walk_v by_o the_o principle_n of_o their_o father_n before_o the_o king_n return_n i_o be_o sure_a i_o say_v that_o they_o have_v no_o reason_n to_o engage_v in_o a_o way_n of_o public_a worship_n contradistinct_a to_o our_o parochial_a congregation_n the_o issue_n of_o the_o travers_n say_v mr._n brinsley_n be_v no_o more_o but_o 53._o of_o schysm_n p._n 53._o this_o if_o there_o be_v among_o we_o a_o separation_n from_o a_o true_a church_n and_o that_o both_o voluntary_a and_o unwarrantable_a as_o the_o present_a practice_n of_o gather_v church_n by_o the_o presbyterian_o be_v which_o i_o suppose_v the_o evidence_n give_v in_o have_v sufficient_o evict_v then_o must_v we_o give_v sentence_n that_o there_o be_v more_o than_o either_o crimen_fw-la nominis_fw-la or_o nomen_fw-la criminis_fw-la no_o less_o than_o a_o schysm_n formal_o and_o proper_o so_o call_v chap._n xxi_o gather_v of_o church_n ought_v not_o to_o be_v practise_v as_o now_o it_o be_v either_o in_o conscience_n or_o prudence_n objection_n answer_v yet_o we_o be_v not_o at_o a_o full_a agreement_n he_o seem_v every_o where_o to_o take_v it_o for_o grant_v that_o we_o be_v now_o at_o perfect_a liberty_n to_o gather_v new_a church_n or_o not_o which_o by_o no_o mean_n i_o allow_v while_o my_o principle_n stand_v undemolish_v such_o as_o these_o that_o our_o church_n of_o england_n be_v a_o true_a church_n that_o our_o parochial_a congregation_n be_v true_a church_n that_o the_o people_n of_o england_n be_v general_o member_n of_o this_o church_n and_o church_n or_o at_o least_o ought_v so_o to_o be_v that_o they_o lawful_o may_v and_o consequent_o be_v in_o duty_n and_o conscience_n bind_v to_o communicate_v with_o they_o and_o therefore_o for_o they_o to_o separate_a and_o to_o gather_v themselves_o into_o new_a congregation_n of_o another_o constitution_n be_v plain_o sinful_a and_o schysmatical_a upon_o the_o premise_n i_o do_v conclude_v that_o conscience_n ought_v first_o to_o be_v consult_v in_o the_o case_n and_o the_o many_o obligation_n thereof_o effectual_o and_o total_o remove_v before_o you_o can_v make_v it_o a_o matter_n of_o indifferency_n in_o itself_o and_o of_o more_o christian_a prudence_n pro_fw-la hic_fw-la &_o nunc_fw-la as_o you_o seem_v to_o affirm_v our_o obligation_n to_o this_o communion_n fall_v many_o way_n upon_o we_o from_o our_o relation_n to_o the_o church_n the_o law_n of_o cohabitation_n of_o church-member_n the_o law_n of_o the_o kingdom_n and_o the_o long_o continue_a practice_n of_o this_o church_n none_o of_o all_o which_o be_v in_o the_o least_o touch_v much_o less_o alter_a or_o repeal_v by_o the_o declaration_n of_o indulgence_n beside_o the_o many_o express_a scripture_n against_o our_o forsake_v our_o wont_a assembly_n separate_v ourselves_o make_v party_n and_o division_n in_o the_o church_n have_v our_o teacher_n in_o too_o much_o admiration_n and_o heap_v they_o up_o to_o ourselves_o and_o receive_v the_o faith_n with_o respect_n of_o person_n and_o draw_v disciple_n after_o we_o in_o all_o which_o both_o the_o present_a case_n and_o the_o several_a conscience_n of_o the_o nonconfomists_a whether_o preacher_n or_o people_n be_v in_o my_o opinion_n not_o light_o concern_v shake_v of_o the_o burden_n as_o well_o as_o you_o can_v until_o these_o thing_n be_v better_a answer_v i_o must_v add_v here_o that_o the_o case_n be_v of_o weight_n in_o pâ—int_n of_o conscience_n as_o well_o as_o prudence_n and_o that_o gather_a church_n as_o now_o you_o do_v be_v a_o breach_n of_o the_o law_n both_o of_o god_n and_o man_n a_o sin_n against_o our_o church_n in_o she_o right_o in_o our_o person_n and_o fellowship_n both_o with_o respect_n to_o our_o pastor_n and_o brethren_n and_o a_o plain_a breach_n of_o our_o covenant_n with_o they_o all_o a_o breach_n of_o the_o church_n unity_n and_o order_n and_o ancient_a bound_n and_o custom_n and_o in_o the_o teacher_n that_o draw_v away_o our_o people_n beside_o all_o that_o have_v be_v say_v a_o plain_a rob_n of_o god_n the_o church_n and_o our_o brother_n to_o conclude_v if_o the_o law_n of_o piety_n justice_n temperance_n or_o charity_n can_v reach_v the_o conscience_n every_o one_o of_o which_o be_v violate_v by_o this_o gather_n of_o church_n the_o case_n be_v not_o a_o work_n of_o mere_a christian_a prudence_n and_o to_o be_v determine_v only_o compare_v the_o good_a and_o evil_a consequent_n together_o as_o you_o say_v p._n 21._o but_o suppose_v my_o foundation_n to_o stand_v firm_a and_o conscience_n in_o the_o point_n well_o secure_v we_o may_v parley_v a_o little_a upon_o it_o in_o point_n of_o prudence_n especial_o see_v you_o affirm_v p._n 21._o that_o he_o that_o through_o imprudence_n mijsudge_v either_o wâ—y_n do_v sin_n moreover_o you_o confess_v that_o the_o case_n be_v now_o of_o so_o great_a moment_n that_o no_o minister_n shall_v rash'y_a determine_v it_o for_o himself_o p._n 20._o nor_o upon_o the_o desire_n of_o some_o of_o the_o people_n only_o but_o shall_v consult_v with_o wise_a and_o sober_a man_n that_o be_v impartial_a but_o if_o the_o case_n be_v so_o difficult_a for_o the_o reader_n who_o you_o say_v must_v preach_v how_o difficult_a be_v the_o case_n for_o the_o people_n for_o it_o be_v no_o where_o say_v they_o must_v separate_v and_o leave_v we_o to_o hear_v you_o yea_o yourself_o teach_v the_o contrary_n you_o state_n your_o nice_a case_n thus_o p._n 17_o 18._o whether_o in_o competent_a parish_n which_o have_v able_a and_o godly_a conformable_a minister_n the_o obligation_n to_o hold_v union_n and_o communion_n with_o the_o parish-church_n or_o the_o obligation_n to_o exercise_v a_o more_o regular_a way_n of_o church_n discipline_n and_o worship_n than_o the_o parish-church_n do_v or_o will_v do_v shall_v be_v judge_v the_o more_o prevalent_a and_o consequent_o whether_o they_o shall_v gather_v church_n out_o of_o church_n in_o this_o a_o case_n not_o so_o difficult_a as_o you_o seem_v to_o make_v it_o if_o there_o be_v as_o you_o have_v hear_v so_o much_o obligation_n upon_o conscience_n to_o the_o former_a part_n of_o it_o touch_v communion_n with_o we_o and_o none_o at_o all_o left_a for_o their_o gathering-churche_n for_o the_o end_v assign_v by_o you_o for_o they_o can_v neither_o leave_v we_o without_o sin_n nor_o gather_v church_n without_o sin_n as_o we_o hope_v it_o have_v appear_v your_o opinion_n be_v give_v upon_o a_o double_a supposition_n and_o both_o of_o they_o false_a 1._o that_o the_o case_n be_v indifferent_a or_o at_o least_o the_o obligation_n to_o both_o so_o equal_a as_o that_o it_o be_v to_o be_v weigh_v only_o by_o prudence_n 2._o that_o it_o be_v lawful_a and_o a_o duty_n to_o be_v a_o member_n of_o such_o a_o parish-church_n only_o when_o we_o can_v have_v and_o do_v no_o better_o i._n e._n in_o our_o own_o opinion_n and_o that_o when_o we_o can_v we_o have_v liberty_n to_o forsake_v our_o own_o church_n though_o i_o confess_v your_o explication_n of_o have_v or_o do_v better_a have_v some_o tendency_n to_o a_o right_a determination_n of_o this_o great_a point_n viz_o you_o say_v we_o can_v have_v or_o dâ—_n better_o when_o it_o can_v be_v without_o a_o great_a hurt_n to_o the_o public_a interest_n of_o the_o gospel_n the_o church_n and_o the_o soul_n of_o man_n than_o the_o benefit_n to_o we_o and_o other_o be_v like_a to_o countervail_v but_o i_o must_v add_v as_o the_o case_n require_v especial_o when_o that_o benefit_n can_v be_v have_v without_o sin_v ourselves_o and_o draw_v other_o to_o sin_v with_o we_o by_o our_o endeavour_n scandal_n and_o example_n which_o i_o think_v we_o too_o plain_o and_o manifest_o do_v by_o gather_v church_n now_o give_v i_o leave_v to_o make_v a_o supposition_n and_o i_o shall_v immediate_o take_v the_o scale_n and_o weigh_v the_o consequent_n as_o you_o say_v on_o both_o side_n my_o supposition_n be_v that_o this_o case_n which_o you_o call_v the_o difficult_a one_o be_v the_o very_a case_n with_o most_o nonconformist_n who_o do_v now_o gather_v church_n for_o as_o our_o parish-minister_n be_v general_o more_o tolerable_a than_o you_o seem_v to_o allow_v they_o so_o especial_o be_v they_o of_o the_o better_a sort_n and_o true_o able_a and_o godly_a and_o our_o parish_n in_o your_o own_o sense_n competent_a enough_o where_o for_o the_o most_o part_n
they_o have_v hitherto_o set_v about_o this_o new_a experiment_n which_o it_o seem_v render_v the_o case_n so_o difficult_a in_o your_o own_o opinion_n that_o i_o fear_v you_o will_v have_v cause_n enough_o to_o censure_v the_o rashness_n of_o their_o unadvised_a undertake_n of_o it_o but_o now_o to_o the_o scale_n wherein_o we_o must_v weigh_v 1._o the_o benefit_n to_o be_v hope_v 2._o the_o evil_n to_o be_v fear_v will_v follow_v such_o gather_a church_n you_o pitch_v upon_o three_o great_a benefit_n 1._o the_o please_a of_o god_n when_o we_o know_v it_o be_v his_o will_n and_o the_o profit_n of_o man_n soul_n by_o the_o most_o regular_a manner_n of_o discipline_n and_o worship_n but_o be_v sure_a you_o know_v it_o be_v his_o will_n you_o your selfmake_v your selfmake_v your selfmake_v it_o very_o difficult_a to_o know_v this_o even_o for_o the_o teacher_n how_o much_o more_o for_o the_o people_n the_o same_o argument_n will_v put_v we_o upon_o the_o reformation_n of_o the_o state_n too_o when_o we_o know_v it_o be_v god_n will_n this_o we_o know_v to_o be_v god_n will_n that_o we_o serve_v god_n the_o best_a we_o can_v in_o our_o place_n that_o we_o move_v for_o a_o reformation_n in_o a_o peaceable_a and_o regular_a way_n that_o we_o preserve_v the_o unity_n and_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n that_o we_o obey_v our_o civil_a and_o ecclesiastical_a governor_n these_o thing_n we_o know_v to_o be_v god_n will_v and_o we_o know_v that_o he_o be_v not_o the_o god_n of_o confusion_n but_o of_o order_n in_o his_o church_n and_o what_o tend_v to_o disorder_n and_o confusion_n we_o know_v it_o be_v not_o god_n will_v but_o how_o we_o shall_v know_v that_o it_o be_v his_o will_n we_o shall_v reform_v the_o church_n upon_o our_o own_o head_n and_o therefore_o separate_a from_o true_a church_n and_o gather_v church_n in_o order_n to_o better_a worship_n and_o discipline_n if_o so_o it_o prove_v this_o we_o know_v not_o 2._o the_o second_o benefit_n be_v the_o set_n up_o a_o imitable_a example_n of_o right_a discipline_n and_o worship_n to_o other_o church_n i._n e._n set_v up_o a_o standard_n with_o the_o former_a narrative_n of_o the_o ground_n of_o the_o war._n but_o head_n severe_o than_o woe_n to_o they_o that_o set_v up_o a_o worse_a and_o in_o your_o conscience_n be_v not_o this_o woe_n likely_a to_o be_v general_a how_o many_o hundred_o year_n have_v our_o discipline_n be_v expose_v to_o examination_n and_o for_o the_o substance_n of_o it_o what_o part_n can_v envy_v itself_o find_v fault_n with_o this_o be_v the_o short_a counsel_n of_o our_o new_a reformer_n likely_a to_o mend_v it_o beside_o how_o will_v you_o do_v that_o be_v for_o episcopacy_n you_o will_v not_o regulate_v that_o by_o have_v none_o or_o by_o make_v other_o bishop_n i_o hope_v as_o for_o our_o worship_n i_o presume_v the_o reform_a liturgy_n will_v not_o take_v place_n except_o in_o your_o own_o congregation_n and_o sure_o that_o we_o have_v already_o be_v better_a than_o none_o at_o all_o as_o it_o be_v with_o your_o brethren_n of_o the_o new_a church_n 3._o your_o last_o benefit_n be_v a_o marvellous_a one_o indeed_o the_o satisfy_v the_o conscience_n of_o honest_a mistake_a people_n who_o think_v it_o unlawful_a to_o communicate_v with_o we_o i_o e._n we_o must_v break_v the_o church_n in_o piece_n to_o feed_v the_o mistake_n and_o ill_a humour_n of_o honest_a people_n if_o they_o be_v honest_a remove_v their_o mistake_n teach_v they_o truth_n and_o wisdom_n and_o peace_n and_o duty_n and_o persuade_v they_o to_o keep_v their_o station_n and_o communion_n with_o we_o and_o i_o doubt_v not_o but_o that_o yâ—u_o and_o they_o will_v find_v this_o to_o be_v the_o great_a benefit_n of_o the_o two_o at_o last_o as_o well_o as_o we_o you_o may_v see_v there_o be_v no_o good_a to_o be_v do_v by_o the_o practice_n and_o you_o in_o the_o next_o place_n see_v what_o a_o swarm_n of_o mischief_n attend_v it_o i_o shall_v observe_v the_o thing_n you_o fear_v yourself_o and_o indeed_o they_o be_v more_o in_o number_n weight_n and_o measure_v too_o than_o the_o benefit_n you_o mention_v 1._o this_o mischief_n be_v likely_a to_o follow_v their_o gathering-churche_n as_o you_o well_o observe_v the_o exasperate_a the_o mind_n for_o number_n and_o quality_n considerable_a and_o so_o alienate_v from_o their_o brethren_n and_o hinder_v they_o 2._o thereby_o weaken_v the_o protestant_a interest_n in_o a_o time_n which_o require_v â—ur_n great_a concord_n 3._o then_o setteng_v of_o party_n against_o party_n and_o church_n against_o church_n and_o turn_v of_o religion_n into_o contention_n and_o mutual_a oppâ—sitions_n 4._o the_o countenance_v of_o unlawful_a separation_n which_o will_v all_o shelter_v themselves_o under_o such_o example_n and_o the_o divider_n will_v not_o see_v the_o different_a principle_n on_o which_o we_o go_v while_o our_o practice_n seem_v to_o be_v the_o same_o 5._o and_o so_o it_o may_v be_v injurious_a to_o future_a age_n by_o seem_v to_o give_v they_o precedent_n for_o unlawful_a separation_n 6._o and_o it_o be_v not_o the_o least_o evil_a consequent_a that_o we_o shall_v cherish_v not_o only_o the_o error_n of_o tâ—ose_n that_o think_v worse_o of_o the_o parish-worship_n and_o assembly_n than_o there_o be_v cause_n but_o we_o shall_v also_o accidental_o nourish_v their_o pride_n who_o will_v think_v themselves_o a_o holy_a people_n because_o they_o erroneous_o over-censure_n the_o person_n and_o practice_n of_o other_o these_o be_v they_o evil_a consequent_n which_o you_o wise_o foresee_v will_v follow_v these_o new_a church_n and_o you_o can_v i_o think_v prudent_o avoid_v they_o but_o by_o forbear_v that_o practice_n and_o persuade_v your_o brethren_n to_o do_v so_o likewise_o for_o you_o confess_v when_o the_o public_a good_a forbid_v it_o as_o no_o doubt_n it_o now_o dâ—th_n p._n 22._o the_o tolerate_a minister_n must_v not_o gather_v distinct_a church-assembly_n but_o join_v with_o the_o public_a church_n and_o help_v the_o people_n by_o their_o instruction_n at_o other_o time_n and_o not_o to_o bâ—y_v up_o the_o people_n in_o their_o weakness_n which_o you_o well_o observe_v p._n 23._o incline_v they_o to_o causeless_a separation_n and_o disâ—unctions_n but_o who_o shall_v now_o hold_v the_o beam_n let_v any_o hand_n but_o your_o own_o and_z i_o be_o sure_a the_o inconvenience_n you_o have_v mention_v must_v needs_o preponderate_v those_o shadow_n of_o benefit_n that_o the_o practice_n pretend_v to_o it_o be_v the_o know_a and_o state_v judgement_n of_o the_o church_n in_o all_o age_n that_o defect_n yea_o and_o many_o corruption_n which_o you_o charge_v we_o not_o withal_o be_v far_o more_o tolerable_a and_o not_o so_o hazardous_a to_o the_o church_n as_o separation_n by_o the_o breach_n of_o unity_n and_o then_o what_o shall_v we_o think_v of_o the_o formal_a and_o positive_a schysm_n in_o gathered_a church_n the_o novatian_o audean_o and_o donatist_n have_v all_o the_o same_o pretence_n of_o better_a discipline_n and_o worship_n than_o the_o public_a therefore_o they_o gather_v themselves_o into_o distinct_a church_n for_o reformation_n and_o great_a purity_n in_o religion_n but_o for_o this_o they_o stand_v record_v for_o schysmaticks_n and_o pâ—sts_n of_o the_o church_n in_o the_o writing_n of_o the_o father_n and_o church-historiâ—ns_a you_o acknowledge_v our_o error_n be_v tolerable_a else_o you_o will_v not_o communicate_v with_o we_o and_o this_o be_v a_o stand_a rule_n in_o the_o church_n si_fw-la error_n est_fw-la tolerabilis_fw-la non_fw-la â—pâ—râ—et_fw-la â—erâ—_n secessionem_fw-la if_o the_o error_n or_o scandal_n of_o the_o châ—rch_n be_v tolerable_a we_o ought_v not_o to_o leave_v it_o and_o what_o be_v the_o reason_n because_o of_o the_o dangerous_a consequent_n that_o have_v ever_o follow_v separation_n and_o the_o beauty_n and_o schys_n cameron_n de_fw-fr schys_n holiness_n of_o unity_n in_o religion_n sir_n i_o perceive_v i_o need_v not_o endeavour_v to_o quicken_v your_o sense_n of_o the_o fearful_a effect_n of_o separation_n and_o shall_v i_o begin_v to_o speak_v of_o they_o there_o will_v be_v no_o end_n god_n grant_v we_o may_v never_o feel_v they_o and_o therefore_o that_o you_o and_o i_o and_o every_o man_n may_v do_v our_o proper_a endeavour_n to_o prevent_v and_o heal_v they_o schysmate_n luxantur_fw-la pareus_n pareus_n membra_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la membra_fw-la luxata_fw-la inepta_fw-la sunt_fw-la ad_fw-la sva_fw-la muncra_fw-la obcunda_fw-la membra_fw-la luâ—â—ta_fw-la gravissimo_fw-la dâ—lore_fw-la corpus_fw-la afficiunt_fw-la mart._n p._n mart._n schysm_n in_o the_o church_n put_v the_o member_n out_o of_o joint_n member_n out_o of_o joint_n be_v unfit_a fâ—r_n service_n and_o cause_n great_a dolour_n and_o disquietment_n to_o the_o whole_a body_n what_o sharp_a contâ—nâ—ions_n and_o rupture_n in_o the_o bowel_n of_o the_o châ—rch_n what_o war_n and_o desolation_n in_o nation_n have_v schysm_n be_v
they_o keep_v within_o the_o bound_n of_o that_o latitude_n which_o the_o communion_n of_o parish-church_n and_o the_o custom_n of_o the_o place_n as_o in_o london_n if_o it_o be_v so_o there_o as_o our_o answerer_n affirm_v will_v warrant_n as_o i_o say_v before_o but_o that_o general_o the_o people_n be_v of_o the_o parish_n church_n and_o ordinary_o aught_o to_o communicate_v with_o they_o there_o be_v hardly_o any_o thing_n more_o evident_a in_o reason_n or_o sense_n and_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o nonconformists_a for_o they_o be_v baptize_v into_o these_o particular_a church_n as_o well_o as_o into_o the_o universal_a and_o the_o know_a law_n both_o of_o church_n and_o state_n oblige_v their_o conscience_n to_o communion_n with_o they_o beside_o if_o they_o be_v not_o of_o the_o particular_a church_n wherein_o they_o live_v they_o be_v of_o none_o but_o their_o ordinary_a attend_v upon_o the_o public_a worship_n as_o they_o general_o do_v or_o have_v do_v conclude_v they_o by_o their_o own_o consent_n to_o say_v nothing_o now_o of_o the_o inconvenience_n that_o follow_v separation_n from_o they_o a_o argument_n not_o to_o be_v despise_v till_o it_o be_v better_o consider_v and_o censure_v mr._n baxter_n speak_v very_o well_o and_o home_o to_o the_o point_n thus_o he_o that_o be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n be_v fit_a to_o be_v receive_v into_o a_o particular_a 89._o cure_v of_o ch._n div_o p._n 89._o church_n and_o there_o want_v no_o more_o but_o mutual_a consent_n and_o if_o he_o have_v stated_o join_v with_o a_o particular_a church_n in_o ordinary_a communion_n consent_n have_v be_v manifest_v and_o he_o be_v a_o member_n of_o that_o particular_a church_n thus_o in_o thesi_fw-la then_o he_o subjoine_v this_o be_v the_o common_a case_n in_o england_n the_o person_n who_o be_v baptize_v in_o infancy_n be_v at_o once_o receive_v into_o the_o universal_a church_n and_o into_o some_o particular_a church_n and_o have_v hold_v communion_n at_o age_n with_o both_o etc._n etc._n in_o a_o case_n so_o plain_a in_o the_o writing_n of_o the_o old_a nonconformist_n i_o shall_v only_o give_v you_o mr._n baxters_n testimony_n for_o they_o all_o especial_o find_v a_o emphasis_n in_o his_o word_n which_o be_v these_o speak_v to_o his_o brethren_n say_v he_o much_o more_o shall_v you_o have_v endure_v 14._o defence_n of_o his_o cure_n p._n 14._o such_o as_o the_o nonconformist_n of_o that_o age_n who_o use_v parish_n communion_n and_o plead_v for_o it_o against_o the_o separatist_n fâ—r_o sharp_a language_n than_o ever_o i_o use_v as_o their_o book_n against_o johnson_n and_o cann_n and_o brown_n and_o ainsworth_n do_v yet_o visible_o declare_v hence_o it_o be_v that_o worthy_a non_fw-fr conformist_n mr_n hildersham_n do_v not_o only_a judge_n it_o lawful_a and_o a_o duty_n to_o attend_v upon_o the_o parish_n congregation_n but_o use_v many_o argument_n against_o the_o ordinary_a leave_v our_o own_o minister_n to_o hear_v more_o able_a man_n in_o other_o parish_n and_o for_o john_n upon_o the_o four_o of_o john_n our_o come_n reverent_o and_o at_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o service_n and_o mr._n baâ—ter_n persuade_v with_o many_o argument_n to_o communion_n with_o the_o parish_n church_n which_o he_o will_v not_o have_v do_v if_o he_o have_v not_o think_v it_o not_o only_o to_o bâ—_n lawful_a but_o a_o duty_n yea_o he_o say_v express_o that_o to_o sâ—me_v it_o be_v a_o duty_n to_o join_v with_o some_o parish_n church_n in_o the_o lord_n supper_n three_o time_n a_o year_n defence_n of_o his_o cure_n p._n 38._o which_o he_o say_v he_o prove_v by_o twenty_o reason_n and_o by_o his_o own_o example_n avow_v in_o public_a and_o his_o constant_a resolution_n so_o to_o do_v he_o add_v much_o weight_n to_o his_o say_a reason_n and_o to_o give_v my_o answerer_n his_o due_a in_o this_o as_o he_o do_v not_o deny_v the_o truth_n of_o most_o of_o our_o church_n so_o he_o do_v much_o persuade_v both_o by_o reason_n and_o his_o own_o example_n to_o communion_n with_o they_o and_o therefore_o he_o believe_v as_o i_o believe_v of_o he_o that_o it_o be_v a_o duty_n but_o for_o the_o presbyterian_o and_o their_o judgement_n in_o the_o point_n before_o 143._o ind._n schys_n pag._n 143._o 1660_o let_v mr._n cawdrey_n be_v hear_v at_o large_a speak_v against_o the_o independent_n separation_n say_v he_o if_o they_o do_v not_o suppose_v themselves_o to_o be_v of_o some_o particular_a church_n it_o be_v their_o error_n and_o their_o fault_n their_o error_n because_o all_o the_o people_n of_o the_o nation_n be_v confine_v to_o that_o church_n where_o they_o live_v and_o liable_a to_o censure_v for_o leave_v that_o church_n for_o partake_v of_o ordinance_n and_o the_o minister_n for_o admit_v they_o their_o fault_n because_o they_o be_v bind_v by_o way_n of_o duty_n both_o by_o the_o law_n of_o the_o nation_n and_o also_o by_o the_o law_n of_o god_n to_o be_v of_o one_o or_o other_o particular_a congregation_n mean_v parochial_a object_n but_o what_o say_v our_o answerer_n against_o all_o this_o he_o yield_v much_o no_o doubt_n pag._n 41._o where_o he_o say_v the_o old_a nonconformist_n hold_n lay_v communion_n with_o parish_n church_n lawful_a and_o so_o do_v we_o answ_n but_o do_v not_o they_o also_o hold_v it_o a_o duty_n prove_v the_o contrary_a if_o you_o can_v i_o challenge_v he_o to_o show_v in_o any_o of_o they_o one_o word_n signify_v it_o lawful_a to_o hold_v communion_n with_o any_o other_o state_v church_n in_o england_n beside_o the_o parochial_a or_o that_o ever_o they_o preach_v in_o house_n as_o you_o unfair_o intimate_v when_o the_o people_n shall_v be_v in_o the_o parish_n church_n or_o that_o any_o learned_a presbyterian_a say_v so_o before_o 1660_o if_o not_o what_o signify_v all_o your_o new-coined_a distinction_n pag._n 34_o 35._o object_n but_o in_o some_o place_n we_o can_v profit_v by_o the_o minister_n aâ—sw_n you_o may_v profit_v by_o the_o prayer_n and_o sacrament_n the_o old_a nonconformist_n will_v not_o endure_v the_o objection_n against_o all_o or_o against_o airy_a weak_a if_o honest_a minister_n let_v mr._n hildersham_n reason_n against_o it_o be_v examine_v say_v he_o our_o shame_n our_o sin_n and_o just_a cause_n of_o humble_v to_o we_o if_o we_o can_v profit_v by_o the_o mean_a minister_n 226._o on_o john_n 4._o p_o 225_o 226._o that_o god_n have_v send_v and_o the_o power_n of_o the_o ministry_n depend_v not_o on_o the_o excellency_n of_o the_o teacher_n gift_n but_o upon_o god_n blessing_n though_o sometime_o he_o think_v people_n may_v go_v to_o hear_v other_o minister_n of_o better_a gift_n object_n but_o some_o minister_n be_v intolerable_a answ_n i_o grant_v the_o nonconformist_n and_o particular_o mr._n hildersham_n do_v allow_v the_o people_n in_o such_o case_n to_o go_v from_o their_o own_o parish_n yet_o he_o put_v in_o three_o rule_n to_o the_o case_n that_o it_o be_v do_v without_o open_a breach_n or_o contempt_n to_o the_o church_n order_n without_o contempt_n of_o their_o own_o pastor_n and_o without_o scandal_n and_o offence_n to_o they_o and_o their_o people_n but_o if_o no_o minister_n be_v intolerable_a but_o such_o as_o our_o answerer_n describe_v to_o be_v so_o i_o hope_v there_o be_v but_o few_o such_o in_o our_o day_n what_o ever_o there_o be_v in_o mr._n hildershams_n time_n by_o intolerable_a say_v he_o i_o mean_v 1._o such_o as_o be_v ignorant_a of_o or_o erroneous_a advice_n advice_n against_o the_o essential_o of_o christianity_n 2._o such_o as_o be_v unable_a to_o teach_v they_o other_o 3._o such_o as_o malignant_o preach_v down_o the_o practice_n of_o a_o holy_a life_n or_o in_o a_o word_n such_o who_o ministry_n real_o tend_v to_o do_v more_o hurt_n than_o good_n these_o be_v intolerable_a indeed_o and_o if_o there_o shall_v chance_v to_o be_v find_v one_o or_o two_o such_o within_o a_o province_n i_o hope_v not_o so_o many_o sure_o some_o duty_n we_o owe_v concern_v they_o but_o what_o be_v that_o in_o the_o first_o place_n we_o be_v certain_o bind_v to_o endeavour_v his_o amendment_n if_o that_o be_v not_o to_o be_v do_v but_o he_o be_v find_v incurable_a he_o be_v the_o more_o intolerable_a and_o our_o next_o duty_n to_o endeavour_v to_o remove_v he_o so_o far_o mr._n baxters_n advice_n be_v wholesome_a and_o apposite_a use_v all_o your_o diligence_n 106._o cure_v of_o ch._n div_o p_o 106._o to_o amend_v he_o and_o if_o you_o can_v do_v that_o use_v all_o your_o interest_n to_o get_v he_o out_o and_o get_v a_o better_a indeed_o he_o add_v if_o you_o can_v do_v that_o deliver_v your_o own_o soul_n from_o he_o by_o remove_v to_o a_o better_a if_o you_o be_v free_a he_o mean_v if_o you_o be_v not_o under_o the_o command_n of_o other_o remove_z to_z another_o parish_n which_o
acknowledge_v that_o our_o worship_n be_v not_o such_o as_o no_o man_n may_v lawful_o communicate_v in_o then_o certain_o you_o believe_v that_o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o it_o that_o be_v real_o and_o material_o evil_a or_o evil_a in_o itself_o for_o than_o no_o man_n may_v lawful_o join_v in_o it_o but_o if_o it_o shall_v become_v evil_a accidental_o from_o the_o particular_a condition_n of_o any_o private_a man_n let_v he_o remove_v that_o evil_a and_o not_o commit_v a_o great_a by_o separation_n but_o pray_v sir_n why_o do_v you_o seem_v thus_o to_o limit_v your_o kindness_n and_o charity_n to_o our_o communion_n if_o it_o be_v not_o such_o as_o no_o man_n why_o be_v it_o not_o such_o as_o all_o man_n may_v lawful_o communicate_v in_o if_o you_o may_v lawful_o communicate_v in_o some_o of_o our_o church_n as_o in_o another_o place_n you_o speak_v why_o not_o in_o all_o or_o why_o do_v you_o leave_v the_o people_n in_o such_o distraction_n have_v not_o all_o our_o church_n the_o same_o ordinance_n our_o minister_n the_o same_o order_n have_v they_o not_o all_o the_o same_o matter_n and_o the_o weary_a same_o mode_n of_o worship_n you_o do_v not_o think_v the_o worth_n of_o the_o minister_n go_v into_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o our_o prayer_n and_o sacrament_n or_o that_o we_o may_v not_o join_v with_o the_o liturgy_n that_o be_v not_o second_v with_o a_o good_a sermon_n i_o be_o sure_a you_o lay_v not_o the_o weight_n of_o your_o limitation_n upon_o the_o manner_n of_o the_o people_n that_o be_v a_o principle_n you_o seem_v to_o abhor_v neither_o can_v you_o make_v use_n of_o any_o exception_n against_o the_o diocesan_n church_n where_o in_o all_o our_o church_n be_v equal_o concern_v except_o a_o few_o peculiar_o i_o be_o sorry_a to_o say_v i_o know_v not_o what_o you_o mean_v until_o you_o better_o explain_v yourself_o give_v i_o leave_v to_o understand_v you_o indefinite_o especial_o while_o you_o say_v you_o do_v &_o will_v hold_v communion_n with_o our_o own_o parish-church_n yourself_o and_o that_o you_o make_v it_o your_o business_n to_o advise_v and_o persuade_v other_o also_o thereunto_o which_o i_o be_o very_o certain_a you_o will_v not_o do_v if_o you_o do_v not_o believe_v not_o only_o that_o our_o way_n of_o worship_n be_v lawful_a i._n e._n not_o sinful_a but_o also_o good_a and_o that_o they_o in_o duty_n ought_v to_o attend_v it_o and_o communicate_v with_o we_o in_o it_o but_o pray_v sir_n why_o then_o do_v you_o p._n 34._o intimate_v as_o if_o some_o parish-church_n do_v impose_v some_o thing_n which_o god_n forbid_v indeed_o when_o you_o speak_v serious_o you_o seem_v to_o reduce_v all_o the_o people_n exception_n in_o this_o kind_n to_o the_o two_o know_a head_n kneel_v at_o the_o communion_n and_o the_o cross_n at_o baptism_n 1._o for_o kneel_v you_o yourself_o seem_v not_o only_o to_o allow_v but_o to_o approve_v it_o you_o also_o practice_v it_o and_o you_o know_v mr._n baxter_n speak_v handsome_o for_o it_o in_o his_o dispute_n p_o 411._o 2._o for_o the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n make_v at_o baptism_n this_o indeed_o be_v require_v of_o the_o minister_n and_o it_o be_v his_o peculiar_a part_n to_o do_v it_o and_o for_o aught_o i_o know_v it_o be_v no_o more_o to_o the_o people_n than_o his_o wear_n the_o surpluss_n and_o if_o he_o know_v it_o to_o be_v his_o duty_n why_o will_v you_o deny_v he_o his_o liberty_n to_o do_v it_o mr._n baxter_n teach_v we_o that_o in_o such_o thing_n we_o ought_v to_o be_v guide_v by_o our_o pastor_n which_o be_v certain_o require_v while_o they_o be_v only_o suspect_v or_o at_o least_o they_o be_v not_o so_o certain_a that_o they_o be_v sinful_a as_o we_o be_v 484._o disput_fw-la 484._o certain_a that_o we_o ought_v to_o obey_v as_o he_o reason_n well_o especial_o sign_v with_o this_o sign_n be_v the_o minister_n own_o act_n you_o may_v venture_v to_o give_v he_o so_o much_o power_n as_o to_o do_v it_o without_o offence_n to_o you_o or_o so_o great_a offence_n as_o to_o cause_v you_o to_o separate_v beside_o if_o you_o can_v be_v persuade_v to_o like_v this_o one_o action_n yet_o you_o must_v remember_v the_o rule_n of_o ames_n and_o separate_v for_o this_o in_o nothing_o else_o but_o what_o need_v all_o this_o trouble_n you_o have_v know_v a_o way_n this_o ten_o year_n to_o answer_v this_o scruple_n by_o private_a baptism_n and_o you_o will_v know_v how_o to_o serve_v yourselves_o in_o this_o of_o the_o king_n declaration_n without_o my_o advice_n but_o then_o why_o shall_v you_o separate_v or_o gather_v into_o new_a church_n for_o that_o which_o the_o declaration_n remove_v without_o such_o do_n why_o do_v you_o stun_v and_o distract_v the_o church_n by_o kill_v a_o gnat_n upon_o her_o forehead_n with_o so_o great_a a_o stroke_n sir_n you_o intimate_v p._n 35._o the_o case_n be_v alter_v but_o sure_o not_o much_o as_o to_o this_o point_n betwixt_o we_o and_o the_o old_a nonconformist_n yet_o you_o well_o know_v all_o conform_a with_o the_o people_n in_o and_o contend_v for_o lay_v communion_n against_o the_o brownist_n yea_o it_o be_v a_o worthy_a observation_n of_o mr._n baxter_n that_o if_o there_o be_v any_o alteration_n it_o be_v for_o the_o better_a for_o the_o people_n as_o he_o ingenious_o confess_v and_o account_n take_v his_o word_n at_o large_a though_o say_v he_o ministerial_a conformity_n be_v to_o we_o another_o thing_n 55._o defence_n of_o cure_n of_o ch_n div_o p._n 55._o by_o reason_n of_o the_o new_a imposition_n than_o it_o be_v to_o our_o predecessor_n yet_o to_o the_o people_n conformity_n be_v the_o same_o if_o not_o easy_o especial_o to_o they_o that_o i_o now_o speak_v to_o for_o it_o be_v the_o lyturgy_n ceremony_n and_o ministry_n that_o most_o alienate_v they_o and_o the_o lyturgy_n be_v a_o little_a amend_v as_o to_o they_o by_o the_o change_n of_o the_o translation_n and_o some_o little_a word_n and_o by_o some_o long_a prayer_n and_o the_o ceremony_n be_v the_o same_o and_o thirty_o year_n ago_o there_o be_v many_o bare_a read_n not_o preach_v minister_n for_o one_o that_o there_o be_v now_o therefore_o our_o case_n of_o separation_n be_v the_o same_o with_o that_o it_o be_v of_o old_a i_o take_v it_o to_o be_v full_o confute_v by_o the_o ancient_a nonconformist_n and_o i_o have_v so_o great_a a_o veneration_n for_o the_o worthy_a name_n much_o more_o a_o estimation_n of_o the_o reason_n of_o mr._n cartwright_n egerton_n hildersham_n dod_n amesius_n parker_n bains_n brightman_n ball_n bradshaw_n paget_n langley_n nicols_n hear_a and_o many_o other_o such_o that_o i_o shall_v not_o think_v they_o know_v not_o why_o they_o choose_v this_o subject_n and_o write_v more_o against_o separation_n than_o the_o conformist_n do_v thus_o he_o have_v give_v you_o a_o full_a jury_n of_o old_a nonconformist_n and_o their_o verdict_n against_o separation_n from_o our_o parochial_a congregation_n and_o our_o present_a way_n of_o worship_v god_n and_o save_v i_o much_o labour_n in_o that_o particular_a chap._n xvi_o further_a proof_n that_o the_o practice_n be_v schysm_n by_o way_n of_o reply_n to_o his_o objection_n against_o it_o but_o for_o all_o this_o gather_v church_n be_v not_o separation_n who_o will_v say_v so_o beside_o refuse_v our_o communion_n and_o gather_v themselves_o into_o distinct_a congregation_n i_o be_o sure_o be_v that_o which_o the_o old_a nonconformist_n write_v against_o and_o call_v it_o separation_n and_o though_o other_o thing_n occur_v by_o way_n of_o argument_n this_o be_v the_o main_a scope_n and_o bear_v the_o burden_n of_o their_o disputation_n beside_o you_o can_v in_o earnest_n accuse_v our_o communion_n with_o sin_n and_o what_o then_o can_v excuse_v your_o leave_v we_o and_o gather_v new_a church_n from_o separation_n according_a to_o the_o judgement_n of_o all_o but_o yourselves_o the_o separatist_n themselves_o not_o except_v who_o never_o that_o i_o ever_o hear_v of_o venture_v to_o question_v the_o major_a proposition_n 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you_o and_o in_o derision_n tell_v you_o they_o have_v pastor_n of_o their_o own_o way_n and_o need_v none_o of_o your_o care_n or_o pain_n it_o follow_v that_o the_o person_n need_v your_o relief_n must_v be_v the_o people_n know_v by_o the_o name_n of_o presbyterian_o that_o do_v not_o conform_v before_o the_o toleration_n be_v it_o so_o be_v their_o number_n so_o great_a to_o need_v the_o relief_n of_o so_o many_o thousand_o nonconforming_a minister_n as_o some_o brag_n of_o i_o will_v not_o have_v you_o count_v they_o lest_o you_o be_v ashamed_a of_o your_o argument_n in_o this_o city_n i_o be_o credible_o inform_v there_o be_v not_o above_o 30_o or_o 40_o at_o most_o of_o this_o quality_n that_o ordinary_o refuse_v the_o public_a and_o meet_v private_o before_o the_o indulgence_n and_o we_o have_v they_o tell_v i_o ten_o nonconformist_n come_v into_o their_o relief_n but_o what_o need_v a_o toleration_n in_o this_o case_n ten_o preacher_n to_o forty_o hearer_n by_o a_o easy_a 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before_o speak_v sufficient_o to_o the_o unreasonableness_n of_o the_o principle_n and_o shall_v now_o only_o note_v the_o fraud_n of_o the_o person_n that_o use_v it_o to_o their_o private_a end_n which_o i_o know_v you_o can_v endure_v for_o in_o truth_n it_o be_v make_v a_o engine_n to_o keep_v up_o a_o faction_n in_o the_o church_n and_o little_a else_o be_v do_v with_o it_o if_o they_o must_v preach_v because_o their_o relation_n to_o their_o flock_n require_v it_o why_o do_v they_o not_o resort_v to_o the_o place_n from_o which_o they_o be_v eject_v or_o how_o can_v this_o poor_a pretence_n justify_v their_o preach_v so_o general_o in_o other_o place_n sure_o all_o that_o now_o preach_v be_v not_o pastor_n in_o the_o place_n where_o they_o now_o preach_v heretofore_o indeed_o their_o country_n parish_n must_v now_o starve_v for_o they_o they_o be_v general_o call_v â—â—gher_a here_o be_v ten_o nonconformist_n in_o this_o city_n but_o how_o many_o of_o they_o be_v pastor_n here_o aug._n 24._o 62_o about_o two_o or_o three_o and_o what_o title_n they_o have_v they_o best_o know_v themselves_o but_o what_o pretence_n have_v the_o other_o seven_o and_o what_o make_v such_o as_o be_v eject_v in_o other_o county_n and_o out_o of_o country_n parish_n to_o trouble_v this_o city_n i_o hope_v none_o be_v so_o wise_a as_o to_o say_v that_o these_o be_v to_o fill_v up_o the_o dead_a place_n to_o perpetuate_v the_o faction_n i_o confess_v suppose_v their_o former_a place_n be_v not_o well_o serve_v and_o the_o eject_v do_v confine_v themselves_o to_o those_o place_n â—t_z seems_z to_o be_v the_o most_o plausible_a colour_n that_o i_o have_v yet_o see_v but_o it_o be_v neither_o so_o nor_o so_o and_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v abhor_v the_o patronage_n of_o such_o imposture_n when_o you_o have_v exercise_v your_o secâ—nd_a thought_n 2._o too_o much_o of_o the_o necessity_n of_o preach_v but_o that_o this_o may_v be_v maintain_v you_o say_v they_o may_v gather_v new_a church_n and_o this_o must_v run_v upon_o a_o pretence_n of_o purity_n and_o serve_v god_n better_a than_o we_o do_v in_o we_o or_o as_o you_o express_v it_o in_o the_o place_n we_o late_o speak_v of_o be_v the_o exercise_v of_o a_o worship_n and_o discipline_n more_o agreeable_a to_o god_n word_n than_o you_o we_o be_v you_o say_v p._n 30._o ready_a to_o give_v you_o the_o proof_n when_o we_o have_v leave_v â—o_o reason_n but_o it_o seem_v you_o have_v not_o prove_v it_o can_v you_o fair_o leave_v we_o and_o gather_v church_n oâ—t_v of_o we_o before_o you_o have_v prove_v it_o else_o have_v you_o do_v your_o endeavour_n in_o order_n to_o our_o conviction_n and_o reformation_n if_o not_o your_o separation_n let_v the_o ground_n be_v what_o it_o will_v for_o the_o manner_n it_o be_v rash_a and_o unwarrantable_a and_o indeed_o schysmatical_a in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o best_a casuist_n as_o well_o presbyterian_o as_o other_o as_o have_v appear_v before_o yea_o it_o have_v appear_v also_o that_o this_o anabaptistical_n and_o brownistical_a principle_n of_o separation_n the_o same_o with_o find_v fault_n and_o corruption_n in_o our_o church_n and_o the_o pretence_n of_o reformation_n for_o pure_a church_n and_o serve_v god_n in_o more_o purity_n as_o they_o use_v to_o cant_n and_o that_o it_o have_v no_o bound_n but_o natural_o divide_v sect_n out_o of_o sect_n till_o it_o bring_v we_o to_o utter_v confusion_n and_o you_o have_v a_o hard_a task_n upon_o your_o hand_n to_o persuade_v the_o people_n to_o communicate_v with_o we_o as_o their_o duty_n and_o yet_o to_o allow_v gather_v church_n from_o we_o for_o pure_a worship_n and_o discipline_n upon_o this_o principle_n that_o we_o be_v bind_v to_o serve_v god_n in_o the_o best_a way_n we_o can_v and_o consequent_o we_o be_v bind_v either_o not_o to_o serve_v he_o in_o a_o worse_a way_n or_o else_o we_o be_v to_o serve_v god_n in_o both_o communion_n and_o to_o be_v member_n of_o two_o particular_a church_n at_o once_o of_o different_a worship_n government_n and_o discipline_n rather_o throw_v it_o away_o as_o a_o unpeaceable_a and_o ungovernable_a principle_n and_o do_v like_o yourself_o to_o undergird_v and_o support_v the_o sore_o threaten_v and_o even_o sink_v parochial_a constitution_n of_o our_o church_n say_v what_o you_o will_v to_o the_o contrary_a if_o you_o take_v not_o in_o this_o mischievous_a engine_n you_o plain_o countenance_v all_o the_o faction_n in_o the_o kingdom_n to_o endeavour_v the_o ruin_n and_o subversion_n of_o they_o while_o we_o keep_v within_o the_o ancient_a bound_n and_o constitution_n we_o know_v where_o we_o be_v but_o if_o one_o we_o begin_v to_o tumble_v where_o we_o shall_v stop_v god_n only_o know_v i_o need_v not_o mind_v you_o of_o the_o fearful_a end_n of_o gnostiscime_fw-la donatism_n brownism_n and_o of_o our_o late_a separation_n which_o take_v their_o beginning_n in_o independency_n they_o all_o have_v pretence_n to_o break_v the_o peace_n under_o colour_n of_o purity_n but_o in_o the_o shuffle_n they_o lose_v both_o and_o sink_v down_o at_o last_o into_o the_o sink_v of_o confusion_n and_o impurity_n mr._n baxter_n will_v not_o suffer_v we_o to_o forget_v something_o to_o this_o 1669._o epist_n to_o his_o rest_n print_n 1669._o purpose_n from_o our_o late_a experience_n which_o methinks_v shall_v keep_v we_o awake_a do_v not_o your_o heart_n bleed_v say_v he_o to_o look_v upon_o the_o state_n of_o england_n and_o to_o think_v how_o few_o town_n and_o city_n there_o be_v where_o be_v any_o forwardness_n in_o religion_n that_o be_v not_o cut_v into_o shred_n and_o crumble_v as_o to_o dust_n by_o separation_n and_o division_n to_o think_v what_o a_o wound_v we_o have_v thereby_o give_v to_o the_o christian_a name_n these_o consequence_n mr._n calvin_n reckon_v to_o be_v just_a judgement_n of_o god_n necessary_o follow_v the_o dissolution_n of_o the_o sacred_a bond_n of_o unity_n which_o the_o god_n of_o peace_n and_o the_o father_n of_o mercy_n avert_v from_o this_o divide_a and_o untoward_a generation_n god_n who_o do_v teach_v the_o heart_n of_o thy_o faithful_a people_n by_o send_v to_o they_o the_o light_n of_o thy_o holy_a spirit_n grant_v we_o by_o the_o same_o spirit_n to_o have_v a_o right_a judgement_n in_o all_o thing_n and_o evermore_o to_o rejoice_v in_o his_o holy_a comfort_n through_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n jesus_n our_o saviour_n grant_v o_o lord_n we_o beseech_v thou_o that_o the_o course_n of_o this_o world_n may_v be_v so_o order_v by_o thy_o governance_n that_o thy_o church_n may_v joyful_o serve_v thou_o in_o all_o godly_a quietness_n through_o jesus_n christ_n our_o lord_n amen_o finis_fw-la
his_o thought_n to_o the_o state_n of_o our_o church_n heretofore_o as_o in_o the_o former_a he_o strike_v at_o the_o popish_a the_o learned_a amesius_n who_o principle_n be_v somewhat_o congregational_a have_v say_v much_o to_o the_o same_o purpose_n in_o a_o few_o word_n separation_n from_o a_o true_a church_n schism_n case_n dâ—_n schism_n be_v sometime_o lawful_a if_o one_o can_v remain_v in_o its_o communion_n sine_fw-la communicatione_n in_fw-la peccatis_fw-la without_o communicate_v in_o her_o sin_n if_o there_o be_v manifest_a danger_n of_o seduction_n and_o if_o we_o be_v compel_v to_o depart_v by_o oppression_n and_o persecution_n thus_o he_o and_o we_o may_v suppose_v he_o think_v he_o make_v a_o full_a enumeration_n of_o all_o the_o just_a cause_n of_o depart_v from_o a_o true_a church_n and_o that_o in_o any_o other_o case_n separation_n be_v unlawful_a other_o indeed_o have_v more_o compendious_o and_o full_o draw_v all_o the_o rule_n in_o this_o case_n into_o one_o point_n separation_n be_v unwarrantable_a if_o communion_n with_o the_o church_n may_v be_v without_o sin_n and_o indeed_o what_o can_v justify_v a_o practice_n so_o contrary_a to_o love_v and_o peace_n and_o of_o so_o dangerous_a consequence_n but_o the_o avoid_n of_o sin_n our_o general_a answer_n to_o the_o charge_n of_o schism_n by_o the_o papist_n be_v we_o must_v not_o partake_v with_o your_o sin_n and_o i_o think_v all_o party_n consent_v in_o this_o common_a proposition_n where_o the_o condition_n of_o communion_n with_o a_o church_n be_v sinful_a we_o be_v not_o bind_v to_o that_o communion_n for_o we_o must_v obey_v god_n rather_o then_o man_n i_o be_o sure_a this_o be_v current_a doctrine_n with_o the_o nonconformist_n 22._o his_o â—â—fence_n 2._o par._n 22._o call_v puritan_n heretofore_o in_o the_o defence_n of_o communion_n with_o the_o church_n of_o england_n let_v the_o abuse_n say_v mr._n ball_n be_v many_o or_o great_a yet_o if_o i_o may_v be_v present_a at_o the_o true_a worship_n of_o god_n without_o sin_n consent_n unto_o or_o approbation_n of_o such_o abuse_n or_o corruption_n in_o voluntary_a separation_n i_o sin_n against_o god_n his_o church_n and_o my_o own_o soul_n this_o be_v also_o undoubted_a by_o the_o late_a presbyterian_o in_o stead_n of_o many_o let_v mr._n cawdrey_n against_o dr._n owen_n schism_n independ_v a_o great_a schism_n be_v hear_v for_o methinks_v he_o speak_v to_o the_o purpose_n it_o be_v say_v he_o no_o duty_n of_o christ_n impose_v no_o privilege_n of_o his_o purchase_n either_o to_o deprive_v a_o man_n self_n of_o his_o ordinance_n for_o other_o man_n sin_n or_o to_o set_v up_o a_o new_a church_n in_o opposition_n to_o a_o true_a church_n as_o no_o church_n right_o constitute_v for_o want_n of_o some_o reformation_n in_o lesser_a matter_n and_o mr._n corbet_n and_o the_o author_n of_o evangelical_n peace_n and_o unity_n if_o i_o understand_v he_o put_v the_o whole_a debate_n upon_o the_o same_o issue_n with_o we_o so_o bagshaw_n also_o etc._n etc._n among_o these_o light_a cause_n which_o will_v by_o no_o mean_n warrant_v a_o separation_n mr._n baxter_n have_v labour_v to_o 291._o cure_v of_o church_n division_n 291._o throw_v down_o these_o four_o superstitious_a as_o he_o call_v they_o which_o some_o religious_a people_n have_v bring_v up_o 1._o that_o we_o be_v guilty_a of_o the_o sin_n of_o all_o unworthy_a communicant_n if_o we_o communicate_v with_o they_o though_o their_o admission_n be_v not_o by_o our_o fault_n 2._o that_o he_o who_o judgement_n be_v against_o a_o diocesan_n church_n may_v not_o lawful_o join_v with_o a_o parish_n church_n if_o the_o minister_n be_v but_o subject_a to_o the_o diocesan_n 3._o that_o whatsoever_o be_v unlawful_o command_v be_v 194._o see_v cure_n of_o church_n division_n p._n 194._o not_o lawful_a to_o be_v obey_v 4._o that_o it_o be_v unlawful_a to_o do_v any_o thing_n in_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n which_o be_v impose_v by_o man_n and_o be_v not_o command_v itself_o in_o the_o scripture_n but_o enough_o of_o the_o false_a ground_n of_o separation_n that_o render_v it_o causeless_o for_o that_o they_o be_v either_o real_o none_o or_o else_o light_a or_o insufficient_a the_o second_o exception_n against_o separation_n be_v take_v from_o the_o undue_a manner_n of_o proceed_v in_o it_o for_o which_o it_o be_v term_v rash_a and_o therefore_o schismatical_a though_o the_o ground_n be_v just._n that_o be_v as_o mr._n brinsly_n explain_v himself_o p_o 25._o when_o it_o be_v sudden_a and_o heady_a without_o due_a endeavour_n and_o expectance_n of_o reformation_n in_o the_o church_n it_o be_v then_o rash_a and_o consequent_o a_o unwarrantable_a separation_n in_o as_o much_o as_o it_o be_v opposite_a to_o charity_n mr._n baxter_n advice_n be_v excellent_a here_o if_o corruption_n blemish_n and_o dishonour_v the_o congregation_n do_v not_o 80._o cure_v of_o church_n diu._n p._n 80._o say_v let_v sin_n alone_o i_o must_v not_o oppose_v it_o for_o fear_n of_o division_n but_o be_v the_o forward_a to_o reduce_v all_o to_o the_o will_n of_o god_n and_o yet_o if_o you_o can_v prevail_v as_o you_o desire_v be_v the_o backwarde_a to_o divide_v and_o separate_a and_o do_v it_o not_o without_o a_o certain_a warrant_n and_o extreme_a necessity_n resolve_v with_o austin_n i_o will_v not_o be_v the_o chaff_n and_o yet_o i_o will_v not_o go_v out_o of_o the_o floor_n though_o the_o chaff_n be_v there_o never_o give_v over_o your_o just_a desire_n and_o endeavour_v of_o reformation_n and_o yet_o as_o long_o as_o you_o can_v possible_o avoid_v it_o forsake_v not_o the_o church_n which_o you_o desire_v to_o reform_v as_o paul_n say_v to_o they_o that_o be_v to_o forsake_v a_o sea-wracked_a vessel_n if_o these_o abide_v not_o in_o the_o ship_n you_o can_v be_v save_v many_o a_o one_o by_o unlawful_a fly_n and_o shift_v for_o his_o own_o great_a peace_n and_o safety_n do_v much_o more_o hazard_v his_o own_o and_o other_o 3._o ames_n give_v i_o occasion_n to_o hint_n one_o thing_n more_o secessio_fw-la vero_fw-la totalis_fw-la etc._n etc._n a_o total_a secession_n or_o separation_n with_o absolute_a renounce_n or_o reject_v all_o communion_n can_v be_v lawful_o practise_v towards_o a_o true_a church_n but_o partial_a only_o quatenus_fw-la communio_fw-la so_o far_o as_o communion_n can_v be_v exercise_v without_o sin_n case_n de_fw-fr schis_fw-la 307._o i_o wish_v hearty_o my_o brethren_n will_v consider_v whether_o not_o only_o renounce_v all_o communion_n with_o but_o set_v up_o other_o church_n against_o our_o church_n be_v not_o in_o his_o sense_n a_o total_a separation_n and_o consequent_o sinful_a or_o whether_o you_o that_o so_o use_v we_o do_v yet_o retain_v communion_n with_o our_o parish-church_n so_o far_o as_o you_o know_v you_o may_v without_o sin_n but_o this_o by_o the_o way_n the_o sum_n be_v when_o the_o church_n give_v no_o such_o cause_n of_o offence_n as_o may_v justify_v separation_n when_o the_o condition_n of_o her_o communion_n require_v nothing_o of_o her_o member_n whereby_o if_o they_o communicate_v they_o shall_v be_v actual_a sinner_n when_o person_n let_v the_o cause_n be_v never_o so_o just_a shall_v unadvised_o without_o due_a endeavour_n and_o patient_a expectance_n of_o a_o reformation_n last_o when_o they_o shall_v for_o some_o few_o thing_n at_o which_o they_o take_v offence_n total_o forsake_v communion_n with_o a_o true_a church_n and_o gather_v themselves_o into_o anti-churche_n they_o be_v in_o all_o these_o case_n guilty_a of_o schism_n in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o most_o nonconformist_n of_o all_o sort_n and_o indeed_o of_o all_o man_n that_o have_v consider_v the_o point_n and_o the_o nature_n of_o schism_n the_o assumption_n we_o shall_v make_v hereafter_o and_o at_o present_a only_o take_v notice_n of_o what_o the_o answerer_n have_v say_v to_o prevent_v it_o he_o give_v we_o p._n 16_o 17._o eight_o difference_n betwixt_o the_o old_a separatist_n and_o the_o present_a nonconformist_n and_o then_o conclude_v in_o all_o these_o they_o differ_v from_o separatist_n though_o they_o gather_v church_n these_o difference_n be_v particular_o consider_v hereafter_o the_o first_o three_o of_o these_o difference_n be_v a_o compliment_n to_o we_o and_o our_o parish_n the_o four_o next_o be_v a_o compliment_n to_o themselves_o in_o the_o last_o i_o think_v he_o be_v in_o earnest_n for_o himself_o but_o he_o have_v to_o do_v with_o a_o headstrong_a party_n that_o will_v not_o obey_v either_o his_o word_n or_o example_n in_o desire_v nothing_o more_o than_o with_o love_n and_o concord_n to_o carry_v on_o with_o we_o the_o same_o work_n of_o christ_n but_o what_o be_v all_o this_o to_o excuse_v they_o from_o be_v separatist_n that_o run_v away_o from_o we_o and_o draw_v desciple_n after_o they_o that_o refuse_v i_o be_o sure_a in_o fact_n what_o ever_o some_o may_v say_v the_o least_o communion_n
none_o can_v except_v against_o but_o all_o this_o while_n there_o be_v no_o room_n make_v for_o separation_n the_o nonconformist_n never_o allow_v this_o the_o holy_a scripture_n as_o mr._n baxter_n tell_v we_o have_v not_o a_o word_n to_o that_o purpose_n obj._n but_o we_o be_v trouble_v again_o with_o his_o last_o refuge_n which_o attempt_v we_o every_o where_o your_o church_n be_v allow_v and_o communion_n with_o they_o when_o we_o have_v no_o opportunity_n to_o do_v better_o but_o to_o serve_v god_n better_o we_o may_v leave_v your_o church_n and_o gather_v other_o answ_n this_o have_v pirkt_v up_o to_o my_o trouble_n two_o or_o three_o time_n already_o i_o will_v now_o give_v it_o such_o a_o blow_n as_o i_o hope_v to_o hear_v on_o it_o no_o more_o 1._o if_o we_o may_v not_o refuse_v communion_n with_o our_o own_o particular_a church_n while_o we_o can_v do_v it_o without_o sin_n the_o only_a condition_n allow_v by_o all_o that_o be_v pure_a nonconformist_n yea_o and_o by_o the_o very_a brownist_n themselves_o than_o this_o pretence_n be_v vain_a but_o you_o grant_v you_o may_v continue_v such_o communion_n with_o the_o parish_n without_o sin_n by_o the_o tenor_n of_o the_o objection_n 2._o this_o objection_n extend_v not_o only_o to_o the_o change_n of_o the_o minister_n but_o of_o the_o very_a worship_n the_o public_a place_n of_o assemble_v and_o the_o parochial_a bound_n of_o church_n which_o as_o in_o the_o nature_n and_o consequence_n of_o the_o thing_n themselves_o be_v very_o dangerous_a so_o they_o be_v all_o quite_o contrary_a to_o the_o reason_n and_o practice_v of_o former_a nonconformist_n they_o may_v think_v they_o have_v reason_n sometime_o to_o do_v better_o but_o they_o never_o mean_v it_o in_o any_o way_n contrary_a to_o the_o public_a worship_n and_o assembly_n but_o only_o in_o some_o other_o parish_n church_n 3._o it_o be_v in_o effect_v the_o same_o excuse_n that_o the_o brownist_n have_v for_o their_o separation_n only_o not_o quite_o so_o considerable_a they_o complain_v thing_n be_v bad_a and_o you_o will_v have_v they_o better_o and_o therefore_o separate_v as_o they_o do_v 3._o the_o very_a same_o plea_n that_o the_o independent_o use_v in_o other_o word_n more_o plausable_a to_o their_o purpose_n namely_o pretence_n of_o disorder_n in_o the_o church_n and_o pretence_n of_o reformation_n and_o yet_o more_o near_o to_o the_o present_a pretence_n that_o they_o may_v worship_v with_o pure_a worship_n all_o which_o mr._n cawdry_n the_o patron_n of_o presbytery_n have_v take_v notice_n of_o and_o answer_v to_o dr._n owen_n bold_o appeal_n the_o dr._n in_o the_o point_n as_o i_o do_v my_o answerer_n in_o his_o word_n i_o leave_v it_o to_o his_o own_o consideration_n whether_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o 142._o in_o dep_v further_o p_o 142._o people_n that_o be_v member_n of_o true_a church_n as_o we_o be_v acknowledge_v to_o be_v 〈◊〉_d upon_o some_o disorder_n in_o a_o church_n or_o pretence_n of_o reform_v themselves_o to_o separate_v from_o that_o church_n and_o to_o erect_v another_o when_o as_o they_o have_v do_v their_o duty_n to_o reform_v it_o in_o those_o disorder_n notwithstanding_o which_o they_o may_v without_o sin_n communicate_v with_o that_o church_n but_o rather_o to_o break_v true_a church_n into_o piece_n than_o to_o bear_v with_o some_o inconvenience_n and_o i_o desire_v a_o precedent_n of_o such_o a_o practice_n in_o scripture_n or_o story_n and_o as_o he_o say_v so_o do_v i_o but_o the_o pretence_n of_o worship_v god_n better_a and_o therefore_o they_o may_v gather_v a_o pure_a church_n out_o of_o a_o true_a church_n the_o presbyterian_a seem_v to_o deride_v it_o as_o not_o worthy_a 198._o ind_n schy_n p._n 198._o a_o serious_a consideration_n or_o answer_n be_v there_o say_v he_o any_o institution_n of_o christ_n that_o they_o must_v gather_v member_n out_o of_o true_a church_n to_o make_v a_o pure_a church_n if_o so_o it_o be_v 4._o but_o the_o sting_n be_v in_o the_o tail_n gather_v church_n out_o of_o our_o parish_n that_o they_o may_v serve_v god_n better_o be_v a_o intolerable_a principle_n and_o practice_n it_o plain_o put_v raines_n into_o the_o people_n hand_n to_o govern_v and_o reform_v themselves_o without_o their_o bishop_n or_o pastor_n which_o methinks_v mr._n baxter_n shall_v not_o like_v very_o well_o and_o without_o the_o civil-magistrate_n which_o the_o presbyterian_o can_v not_o endure_v to_o reform_v themselves_o i_o say_v without_o the_o order_n of_o any_o kind_n of_o governor_n not_o only_o in_o one_o single_a parish_n but_o throughout_o the_o kingdom_n nor_o only_a to_o reform_v abuse_n in_o administration_n but_o in_o the_o worship_n and_o government_n yea_o even_o to_o the_o utter_a dissolution_n of_o our_o church-state_n and_o the_o bound_n and_o place_n of_o our_o parochial_a congregation_n &_o the_o set_n up_o of_o other_o church_n other_o minister_n and_o another_o worship_n and_o government_n throughout_o the_o kingdom_n so_o far_o as_o this_o rule_n take_v for_o the_o rule_n in_o its_o practical_a nature_n and_o use_n be_v general_a and_o if_o it_o be_v the_o duty_n of_o one_o it_o be_v the_o duty_n of_o another_o and_o of_o all_o to_o worship_n god_n better_o in_o this_o new_a way_n and_o consequent_o all_o be_v bind_v to_o worship_n god_n better_o and_o all_o must_v join_v in_o these_o new_a congregation_n while_o the_o bishop_n and_o minister_n and_o temple_n be_v leave_v useless_a and_o there_o be_v no_o way_n which_o our_o author_n can_v think_v of_o to_o prevent_v &_o stop_v this_o deluge_n but_o the_o people_n prudence_n and_o how_o likely_a that_o be_v to_o do_v it_o let_v the_o wise_a consider_v be_v ever_o nonconformist_a or_o presbyterian_a before_o of_o this_o opinion_n or_o any_o one_o that_o be_v not_o a_o downright_a separatist_n dr._n owen_n have_v say_v that_o if_o a_o man_n can_v prevail_v to_o have_v the_o church_n reform_v he_o may_v dispose_v of_o himself_o as_o to_o particular_a church_n communion_n to_o his_o best_a advantage_n one_o will_v think_v this_o be_v modest_o speak_v in_o comparison_n yet_o observe_v how_o the_o presbyterian_a take_v he_o up_o this_o be_v liberality_n enough_o and_o dictator-like_a speak_v do_v not_o 190._o ind._n schys_n p_o 189_o 190._o this_o open_a a_o door_n to_o all_o confusion_n in_o church_n and_o state_n and_o give_v every_o man_n as_o well_o as_o any_o liberty_n if_o they_o judge_v any_o thing_n amiss_o in_o church_n or_o state_n to_o turn_v reformer_n if_o superior_n can_v or_o will_v not_o reform_v it_o in_o a_o state_n or_o natiâ—nal_n church_n as_o that_o of_o the_o jew_n be_v it_o lawful_a for_o a_o few_o man_n when_o state_n and_o church_n be_v all_o corrupt_a to_o go_v and_o reform_v both_o because_o they_o that_o have_v the_o power_n in_o their_o hand_n either_o can_v not_o or_o will_v not_o reform_v i_o think_v i_o may_v safe_o say_v this_o be_v a_o anabaptistical_n munster_n principle_n at_o the_o bottom_n so_o he_o beside_o the_o rule_n have_v run_v equal_o in_o it_o against_o the_o reformer_n themselves_o every_o sect_n will_v plead_v the_o same_o liberty_n to_o serve_v god_n better_o and_z as_o mr._n baxter_n have_v well_o item_v you_o separation_n will_v ruin_v the_o separate_a church_n themselves_o 50_o defence_n of_o cure_n p._n 50_o and_o not_o at_o all_o vary_v from_o their_o own_o light_n by_o which_o they_o ascend_v unto_o separation_n it_o will_v admit_v of_o no_o consistency_n party_n will_v arise_v in_o the_o separate_a church_n and_o separate_v again_o from_o they_o till_o they_o be_v dissolve_v as_o experience_n witness_v but_o because_o my_o author_n speak_v of_o gather_v church_n for_o the_o first_o three_o hundred_n year_n after_o christ_n i_o shall_v not_o disturb_v he_o by_o inquire_v out_o of_o what_o church_n they_o be_v gather_v only_o shall_v give_v he_o a_o presbiterian_o expostulation_n and_o conclude_v this_o chapter_n will_v he_o call_v that_o a_o peaceable_a proceed_n which_o be_v do_v without_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o christian_a civil_a magistrate_n 1â—1_n cawd_z indep_n further_o p._n 1â—1_n and_o to_o the_o disturbance_n of_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o nation_n be_v it_o grant_v that_o in_o the_o first_o constitution_n of_o a_o church_n people_n may_v by_o their_o own_o free_a consent_n join_v to_o walk_v together_o &c_n &c_n be_v this_o course_n tolerable_a in_o settle_a church_n to_o the_o confusion_n and_o overthrow_n of_o the_o very_a constitution_n of_o our_o church_n chap._n fourteen_o the_o present_a practice_n plain_a separation_n objection_n by_o the_o answerer_n consider_v the_o present_a practice_n of_o gather_v church_n out_o of_o our_o church_n be_v separation_n though_o our_o church_n be_v true_a church_n and_o the_o person_n concern_v be_v or_o aught_o to_o be_v member_n of_o they_o yet_o do_v they_o proper_o separate_v from_o they_o
i_o can_v show_v to_o have_v as_o many_o real_a soloecism_n in_o it_o as_o you_o have_v note_v in_o my_o whole_a book_n but_o i_o be_o not_o careful_a for_o these_o thing_n you_o deal_v more_o hardly_o with_o i_o when_o you_o lay_v presumption_n and_o cruelty_n to_o the_o nonconformist_n at_o my_o door_n can_v i_o imagine_v that_o they_o do_v not_o only_o desire_v to_o escape_v the_o penalty_n of_o the_o law_n but_o erect_v separate_a church_n to_o themselves_o but_o i_o must_v be_v a_o ithacian_a master_n and_o make_v you_o feel_v my_o meaning_n and_o give_v occasion_n to_o cry_v out_o as_o you_o do_v but_z my_o brother_n what_o good_a will_v our_o suffering_n do_v you_o do_v you_o feel_v yourself_o ever_o the_o more_o at_o liberty_n when_o we_o be_v in_o the_o common-goales_a be_v you_o the_o full_a because_o some_o nonconformist_n want_n bread_n be_v this_o reasonable_a charitable_a or_o candid_a what_o ground_n have_v you_o for_o it_o either_o in_o my_o word_n or_o deed_n will_v 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shall_v be_v great_a and_o covenant_v never_o in_o certain_a point_n to_o obey_v christ_n against_o the_o world_n and_o the_o flesh_n and_o you_o can_v but_o know_v this_o be_v no_o way_n argumentative_a unless_o you_o design_v to_o weaken_v the_o affection_n of_o the_o people_n towards_o we_o and_o so_o to_o prepare_v they_o for_o a_o separation_n which_o i_o be_o not_o willing_a to_o believe_v for_o that_o i_o find_v you_o in_o many_o other_o place_n so_o earnest_o persuade_v to_o the_o contrary_n sir_n i_o do_v not_o presume_v to_o advise_v you_o but_o sir_n if_o you_o shall_v think_v to_o write_v any_o more_o upon_o this_o matter_n let_v i_o beseech_v you_o serious_o to_o consider_v whether_o your_o own_o principle_n and_o the_o present_a vile_a practice_n of_o separation_n contrary_a thereunto_o will_v not_o more_o worthy_o and_o more_o seasonable_o draw_v your_o study_n another_o way_n i_o know_v that_o the_o peace_n and_o reputation_n and_o integrity_n of_o our_o parochial_a church_n be_v dear_a to_o you_o however_o you_o be_v tempt_v to_o mistake_v i_o and_o to_o let_v some_o thing_n fly_v some_o thing_n that_o may_v chance_v to_o prejudice_v they_o more_o than_o you_o will_v there_o be_v two_o principle_n scatter_v up_o and_o down_o your_o answerer_n that_o i_o here_o main_o aim_v at_o and_o into_o these_o indeed_o all_o its_o strength_n resolve_v 1._o that_o the_o nonconformist_n must_v preach_v 2._o that_o to_o the_o end_n the_o people_n may_v serve_v god_n better_o they_o may_v gather_v themselves_o into_o other_o church_n the_o first_o of_o these_o will_v not_o concern_v i_o in_o the_o defence_n of_o my_o other_o book_n neither_o do_v the_o allowance_n of_o it_o draw_v a_o necessity_n of_o gather_v church_n as_o we_o have_v make_v to_o appear_v above_o the_o latter_a of_o they_o indeed_o lie_v at_o the_o bottom_n of_o all_o that_o you_o say_v against_o i_o and_o i_o have_v often_o speak_v to_o it_o even_o where_o ever_o i_o meet_v it_o i_o be_o now_o make_v my_o petition_n in_o the_o church_n behalf_n that_o you_o will_v lay_v to_o heart_n the_o certain_a division_n and_o confusion_n that_o must_v needs_o follow_v upon_o the_o practice_n of_o both_o these_o principle_n joint_o receive_v and_o improve_v by_o the_o skill_n of_o divider_n and_o the_o cunning_a craftiness_n of_o such_o as_o lie_v in_o wait_n for_o that_o purpose_n the_o first_o of_o these_o that_o they_o must_v preach_v give_v i_o leave_v to_o say_v as_o it_o be_v the_o present_a engine_n for_o division_n be_v a_o plain_a cheat_n put_v upon_o the_o world_n and_o not_o to_o be_v countenance_v by_o a_o honest_a man_n they_o must_v preach_v but_o why_o because_o of_o the_o text_n because_o of_o the_o necessity_n of_o the_o people_n and_o last_o because_o of_o their_o relation_n to_o their_o old_a flock_n of_o each_o a_o little_a they_o must_v preach_v because_o the_o text_n say_v there_o be_v a_o necessity_n lay_v upon_o we_o and_o woe_n be_v to_o we_o if_o we_o do_v not_o preach_v ans_fw-fr but_o my_o brethren_n what_o if_o you_o have_v no_o opportunity_n and_o the_o church_n be_v all_o full_a must_v you_o preach_v still_o we_o have_v before_o note_v from_o mr._n baxter_n that_o where_o there_o be_v no_o opportunity_n there_o be_v no_o duty_n and_o consequent_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n no_o woe_n &_o be_v it_o not_o plain_a enough_o that_o while_o you_o have_v no_o particular_a flock_n especial_o while_o the_o law_n forbid_v you_o to_o have_v any_o you_o have_v no_o opportunity_n to_o preach_v public_o can_v have_v no_o opportunity_n to_o be_v so_o busy_a in_o another_o man_n diocese_n nor_o warrant_v in_o conscience_n without_o leave_n from_o the_o law_n which_o be_v still_o oblige_v notwithstanding_o &c_n &c_n and_o the_o licence_n of_o the_o bishop_n or_o the_o parochial_a minister_n to_o who_o people_n you_o will_v preach_v it_o ought_v to_o be_v remember_v this_o doctrine_n be_v perfect_a brownism_n and_o condemn_v as_o such_o by_o the_o old_a nonconformist_n who_o hold_v and_o defend_v against_o the_o brownist_n that_o though_o themselves_o be_v only_o suspend_v and_o have_v yet_o by_o law_n the_o possession_n of_o their_o place_n and_o no_o other_o can_v lay_v claim_n to_o their_o flock_n yet_o be_v only_o thus_o suspend_v they_o ought_v not_o to_o preach_v public_o to_o their_o own_o people_n whether_o suspend_v or_o degrade_v their_o doctrine_n be_v not_o the_o necessity_n to_o preach_v as_o you_o and_o the_o brownist_n say_v but_o to_o keep_v silent_a for_o so_o long_o say_v they_o as_o the_o bishop_n suspend_v and_o deprive_v according_a to_o law_n we_o account_v of_o the_o action_n herein_o as_o of_o the_o act_n of_o the_o church_n if_o they_o do_v otherwise_o we_o have_v liberty_n give_v we_o by_o the_o law_n to_o appeal_v from_o they_o obj._n but_o we_o think_v in_o our_o conscience_n that_o the_o cause_n of_o our_o silence_v be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o justify_v it_o this_o very_a objection_n also_o the_o 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to_o be_v see_v they_o also_o will_v be_v ready_a always_o to_o object_n against_o the_o church_n judgement_n that_o they_o be_v call_v of_o god_n and_o may_v not_o therefore_o give_v over_o the_o execution_n of_o their_o ministry_n at_o the_o will_n of_o man._n obj._n but_o how_o shall_v we_o answer_v the_o text_n woe_n be_v to_o we_o if_o we_o dâ—_n not_o preach_v thus_o also_o the_o brownist_n urge_v against_o the_o nonconformist_n and_o be_v thus_o solid_o answer_v ans_fw-fr the_o case_n now_o and_o in_o the_o apostle_n time_n be_v far_o different_a first_o they_o that_o inhibit_v the_o apostle_n be_v know_v and_o profess_a enemy_n to_o the_o gospel_n second_o the_o apostle_n be_v charge_v not_o to_o teach_v in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n nor_o to_o publish_v any_o part_n of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o