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A16161 The Protestants evidence taken out of good records; shewing that for fifteene hundred yeares next after Christ, divers worthy guides of Gods Church, have in sundry weightie poynts of religion, taught as the Church of England now doth: distributed into severall centuries, and opened, by Simon Birckbek ... Birckbek, Simon, 1584-1656. 1635 (1635) STC 3083; ESTC S102067 458,065 496

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Masses wherein the P●iests alone doth Communicat● without the p●ople it is contra●y to ●he Canon of ●he M●sse saying in the ●lurall number Sumpsimus we have ●ec●ived an● Quo●quot ex hoc altaris participatione c. That all wee which in ●he participat●on of the Altar have receiv●d the sacred body and bloud of t●y Sonne● c. Iohn Hossme●ster a learned man expounding the prayers of th● Mass● hath these w●rds The thing it s●lfe proclaimeth it th●t as w●ll in the Gre●ke as Latine Church not onely the Priest which sacrif●●eth but the other Priests and Deacons also yea and the people or at le●st some part of them did Commu●icate● which custome how it grew out of use I know not but surely wee should labour to bring it in againe By this it appeares that the Priests receiving alone and the neglecting or excluding the communicating of others as no● much nec●ss●ry is indeed a poynt of Romish Religion but con●rary to the words of the Canon and ●he ancient custome of the Church it proceeded from the i●devotion of the people or rather ●he negl●g●nce or errour of the guides of ●he Church that either failed to stirre them up to the perform●nce of such a duty or made them bel●eve their Act w●s sufficient to com●unicate the benefits of Christs passion to th●m but this course was misliked by them of the bet●er sort Concerning Communion in one kind that is another poynt of Romish Religion supposed to be conteined in the Masse which yet wan●s the liking and approbation of the best and wo●thiest guides of Gods Church then living Cassander saith It is sufficiently manifest that the ●niversall Church of Christ untill this day and the Westerne or Romane Church for more than a thousand yeares after Christ did minister the Sacrament in both kinds to all the members of Christs Church at least in publicke as it is most evident by innum●rable testimonies both of Gre●ke and Latine Fathers It is true indeed ●hat in case of necessi●ie as when children or such as were sicke and weake were to ●eceive the Communion th●y used to ●ip the mysticall bread into the consecrated wine under pre●en●e of Ca●efull avoiding the danger of spilling it and greater reverence to●ards the holy Sacrament from this custom● wh●●● yet was ●isl●ked as appeares by Hildebe●● 〈…〉 some proceed●d farther and began to teach the people that seeing the body and blood of Christ cannot be separated in that they partake of the 〈◊〉 they partake of the other also and that therefore it was sufficient to receive in one kind alone N●●th●r y●t could this give satisfaction for howsoever the custome of communicating under one kind prevailed yet there wanted not such as sufficiently expressed their judgement that communicating in both kinds as Christ first did institute and the Church for a long time observed was fit and convenient perfect and compleat and of more efficacie and cleerer representation than the other under one kind alone Come to another maine point the proper and propitiatory sacrifice for the quicke and the dead and see whether at Luthers appearing before and after all that used that Liturgy had such an opinion of a sacrifice Saint Ambrose and Saint Chrysostome by way of correction say Wee offer the same sacrifice or rather the remembrance thereof Peter Lombard proposing the question whether that which the Priest doth may properly be named a Sacrifice or Immolation answereth that Christ was only once truely and properly offered in sacrifice and that h●e is not properly immolated or sacrifised but in Sacrament and Representation onely Lyra saith that If thou say the Sacrifice of the Altar is daily offered in the Church it must be answered that th●re is no reiteration of the sacrifice but a daily commemoration of that sacrifice that was once offered on the Crosse. Georgius Wi●elius a man much honoured by the Emperours Ferdinand and Maximilian defines the Masse to be a Sacrifice Rememorative and of prayse and thankesgiving where many give thankes for the price of their Redemption The Author of the Enchiridion of Christian Religion publish●d in the provinciall Co●ncell of Colen saith In that the Church doth offer the true body and blood of Christ to God the Father it is meerely a representative sacrifice and all that is don● is but the commemorating and representing of that sacrifice which was once offered on the Crosse. By that which hath beene said it is cleare that the best and worthiest guides of Gods Church both before and after Luthers time taught not any new reall offering of Christ to God the Father as a propitiatory sacrifice to take away sinnes but in effect as wee doe namely that the sacrifice of the Altar is only the sacrifice of praise and thankesgiving and a meere representation and commemoration of the sacrifice once offered upon the Crosse his being the reall sacrifice on the Crosse ours only the Sacramentall Representation Commemoration and Application thereof so that Christ is not newly offered any otherwise than in that hee is offered in the view of God nor any otherwise sacrifised than in that his sacrifice on the Crosse is commemorated and represented And thus the Fathers terme the holy Eucharist an unbloody Sacrifice not because Christ is properly and in his substance offered therein but because his bloody sacrifice upon the Crosse is by this unbloody commemoration represented called to remembrance and applyed Besides these points mentioned I have already produced witnesses in all ages and in all parts of the world rejecting those bookes as Ap●cryphall that wee doe and showne that even untill Luthers time the Church did not admit the Canon of Scripture which the Romanists now doe nor ever accounted those bookes canonicall which wee thinke to bee Apocryphall and by these instances it may appeare That all were not Papists who held with the Masse Th● thing then we say is this that though the Masse was generally in u●e at ●nd b●fore Luthers time● yet diver● poynts belonging th●reunto were not beleeved by t●e worthie●t guides in God Church at and before Luthers time though indeed there were some in the Chu●ch ●hat so co●ceived of them as the Romanists now doe and the reason hereof is this They were not generally received by all m●n nor as the und●ubted determinations of the Church not as Dogmata fidei but Dogmata scholae controverted and dive●sly disputed among the learned holden with great libertie of Iudgement by the greatest Doctors as appeares by their owne bookes of controversies written by Bellarmine Sua●ez Azorius and others which confute their owne writers almost as much as they doe Pro●estants Besides had they beene the undoubted doctrines and determinations of the Church all men would have holden them uniformly entirely and constantly as they held the doctrine of the Trinity the Creation the Incarnation of the Sonne of God and other Articles of the Faith Objection If these points
it is a straine of rhetoricke why not the other also Sixtus Senensis gives a good rule for interpretation of the Fathers speeches specially in this argument The sayings of Preachers are not to be urged in that rigour of their words for after the manner of Oratours they use to speake many times hyperbolically and in excesse And hee instanceth in Chrysostome as well hee might for hee is full of them even there where hee speakes of the Sacraments hee saith That our teeth are fixed in the flesh of Christ that our tongues are dyed red with his bloud and againe That it is not the Minister but God that baptizeth thee and holdeth thy head Now these and the like sayings must be favourably construed as being improper speeches rhetoricall straines purposely uttered to move affections stirre up devotion and bring the Sacrament out of contempt that so the Communican●s eyes may not bee finally fixed on the outward elements of bread and wine being in themselves but transitory and corruptible creatures but to have their hearts elevated and lift up by faith to behold the very body of Christ which is represented in these mysteries Otherwise the Fathers come downe to a lower key when they come to speake to the point yea or no and accordingly Saint Chrysostome when once he is out of his Rhetoricall veine and speaks positively and doctrinally sayth When our Lord gave the Sacrament hee gave wine and againe Doe wee not offer every day Wee offer indeed but by keeping a memory of his dea●h and hee puts in a kind of caution or correction lest any should mistake him Wee offer saith hee the same Sacrifice or rather the remembrance thereof And such a Commemorative and Eucharisticall sacrifice we acknowledge Object Saint Cyril of Alexandria useth the word corporally saying that by the mysticall benediction the Sonne of God is united to us corporally as man and spiritually as God Answer Hereby is meant a full perfect spirituall conjunction with the sanctified Communicants excluding all manner of Imagination or fantasie and not a grosse and fleshly being of Christ's body in our bodyes according to the appearance of the letter otherwise this inconvenience would follow that our bodies must be in like manner corporally in Christ's body for Cyril as hee saith Ch●ist is corporally in us so he saith weare corporally in Christ by corporally then he meaneth that neere and indissoluble union in the same sence that the Apostle useth it saying In him dwel●eth all the fulnesse of the Godhead bodily Coll. 2.9 bod●ly that is indissolubly B●sides Christ is likewise joyned corporally to us by the Sacrament of Baptisme and yet therein there is no Transubstantiation Of Image-worship Saint Hierome saith We worship one Image which is the Image of the invisible and omnipotent God Saint Austine saith No Image of God ought to be worshipped but that which is the same thing that he is meaning Christ Iesus Col. 1.15 Hebr. 1.3 nor yet that for him but with him And as for the representing of God in the similitude of a man he resolveth that it is Vtterly unlawfull to erect any such Image to God in a Christian Church He condemneth the use of Images even when they are not adored for themselves but made instruments to worship God saying Thus have they deserved to erre which sought Christ and his Apostles in painted Images and not in written bookes The same Austine writing of the manners of the Catholike Church directly severeth the case of some men who were wont to kneele superstitiously in Churh yards before the tombes of Martyrs and the painted histories of their sufferings these private mens cases he severeth from the common cause and approved practice of the Catholike Church saying Doe not bring in the company of rude m●n which in the true religion it selfe are superstitious I know many that are worshippers of Graves and pictures Now this I advise that you cease to speake evill of the Catholike Church by upbraiding it with the manners of those men whom she her selfe condemneth and seeketh every day to correct as naughtie children so that in Saint Austines times as is already no●ed Images and Image-worship were not used by any generall warranted practice if some mis-informed men used it this could not in Saint Austines opinion make it a Church duty necessary and Catholike or draw it to bee a generall custome Bellarmine answereth that Saint Austine wrote this in the beginning of his Conversion to Christianitie and that upon better information he changed his mind but he tells us not in what part of his Retractations this is to be found Divers other shifts besides are used herein and some fly to the distinction of an Idoll and an Image but that will not se●ve for the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is often translated Simulachrum a likenesse or simili●●de and as eve●y Idoll is an Image of some thing so every Image worshipped turnes Idoll there may be some ods in the language but none in the thing it selfe Bellarmine minceth the matter and would have the Image worshipped not prope●ly and because of it selfe but reductively inasmuch as it doth expresse the Sampler Others hold that the Image is to bee worshipped in it selfe and with the s●m● wo●ship that the person is which is represented so that the Crucifixe is to be reverenced with the selfe same hon●ur that Christ Iesus is And as for the vulgar people they goe bluntly to it with down●right adoration Cassander saith It is more manifest than that it can bee denyed that the worship of Images and Idols hath too much prevailed and the sup●rstitious humour of people hath beene so cockered● that nothing hath beene omitted among us either of the highest adoration and vanity of Painims in worshipping and adoring Images Polydore also saith People are growne to such madnesse that there are many rude and stupid persons which adore Images of wood stone marble and brasse or paint●d in windowes not as signes but as though they had sense and they repose more trust in them than in Christ or the Saints to which they are dedicated Ludovicus Vives saith Sai●ts are esteemed and worshipped by many as were the Gods among the Gentiles Objection The honour or dishonour done to the Image redoundeth to the person represented or p●ototype as appeares by our being uncovered using reverence in the Kings Chamber of presence and before his Chaire of estate when his person is absent in like sort the honour and worship due to the Image redoundeth to Christ and his Saints now if an Image bee capable of contempt and reproach it is also capable of honour and worship Answer The Rule The dishonour done to the Image redoundeth to the person is true specially in civill affaires when the Party would be honoured by the Image and thus was Theodosius grieved with them of Antioch for casting downe his
have beene called Lollards of Lollium cockle or darnell and so saith the glosse in Linwood as also in the Squires prologue in Chaucer I smell a Loller in the w●nde quoth hee abideth for Gods digne passion for mee shall have a predication this Loller here will preach us s●mewhat here shall hee not preach here shall he no Gospell glose ne teach he beleeueth all in the great God qu●th he he would sowne some difficulty or spring cockle in our cleare corne But they were called Lollards from one Raynard Lollard who at the first was a Franciscan Monke and an enemy to the Waldenses but yet a man carried with a sanctified desire to finde the way of salvation Hee afterwards taught the doctrine of the Waldenses was apprehended in Germany by the Monkes Inquisitours and being delivered to the secular power was burnt at Cologne He wrote a Commentary upon the Apocalyps wherein he applied many things to the Pope as to the Roman Antichrist This was he of whom the faithfull in England were called Lollards where he taught witnesse that Tower in London which at this present is called by his name Lollards Tower where the faithfull that profe●sed his religion were imprisoned Iohn l● Maire in the third part of the difference of Schismes puts him in the ranke of those holy men that have foretold by divine revelation many things that have come to passe in his time such as were Boccace Saint Vincent of Valence of the order of preaching Friers Io●chim Abbot of Ga●abria to them he adjoyneth the Frier R●ynard Lollard And so I proceede to the severall points in question Of the Scriptures suffici●n●y and Canon VVIckliffe saith that Christs law sufficeth by it selfe to rule Christs Church that a Christian 〈◊〉 well under●tanding it may thence gather sufficient knowledge during his pilgrimag● h●re on earth Lyra upon those words in the Gospell They have Moses and the Prophets let them heare them Luke 16.29 makes this inference Moses he taught mor●lity and what was our duty to doe the Prophets taught mysteries and what we are to beleeve Et ista sufficiunt ad salutem and these are sufficient for our salvation and therefore it followes Heare them so that hee reduceth all to two heads the Agenda or practicall part● and the Credenda or Articles of the Creede and these essentiall necessaries contained in the Scriptures he makes sufficient to salvation Amongst the sundry opinions which Ockam reckons vp this is one sayth Ockam That onely those verities are to be esteemed Catholike and such as are necessarily to be beleeved for the attaining of salvation which either expressely are delivered in ●cripture or by necessary consequence may be inferred from things so expressed Richard Fitz-Raphe Archbishop of Armagh and Primate of Ireland saith It is defined in generall Councels that there are two and twenty Authenticall bookes of the Old Testament Nicholas Lyra the converted Iew is plentifull in this argument Now that I have by Gods helpe saith he written upon the Canonicall bookes of holy Scripture beginning at Genesis and so going on to the end trusting to the helpe of the same God I intend to write upon those other bookes that are not Canonicall such as are the booke of Wisedome Ecclesiasticus Iudith Tobias and the bookes of Macchabes and withall addeth that it is to be considered that these bookes which are not Canonicall are received by the Church and read in the same for the information of manners yet is their authority thought to be weake to prove things that are in controversie And the same Lyra writing vpon the first of Esdras the first Chapter saith That though the bookes of Tobias Iudith and the Maccabes be Historicall bookes yet he intendeth for the present to passe by them and not to comment on them and he gives his reason namely quia non sunt de Canone apud Iudaeos nec apud Christianos because they are not in the Canon neither with the Iewes nor with the Christians Wickliffe also held that there are but two and twenty Authenticall bookes of the Old Testament Of Communion under both kinds and number of Sacraments THe custome of communicating in both kinds was not abolished in the beginning of this Age but was retained in certaine places especially in Monasteries untill the yeere of our Lord thirteene hundred and more Thus writeth Cassander Beatus Rhenanus saith that Conradus Pellicanus a man of wonderfull sanctity and learning did finde in the first constitution of the Carthusians That they were forbidden to possesse any vessels of price besides a silver Chalice and a pipe whereby the lay-people might sucke the blood of our Lord. Durand their profound Doctor denieth Matrimony to be a Sacrament properly so named and of the same nature with the rest or to give grace Robert Holcot our countrey-man denied that Confirmation was from Christs Institution now Bellarmine saith that Christ onely can institute a Sacrament Alphonsus à Castro telleth us and that from the testimony of Iodocus Clichtoveus and Thomas Walden a bitter adversary of Wickliffes that Wickliffe held extreame unction or annealing was not a Sacrament Of the Eucharist Ockam saith There are three opinions of Transubstantiation of which the first supposeth a conversion of the Sacramentall Elements the second an annihilation the third affirmeth the bread to be in such sort transubstantiated into the body of Christ that it is no way changed in substance or substantially converted into Christs body or doth cease to be but onely that the body of Christ in every part of it becomes present in every part of the bread This opinion he saith the Master of Sentences mentioneth not much disliking it yet it is not commonly holden Their owne Proctours and Canonists Hostiensis and Gaufridus tell us that there were divers in those dayes who taught that the substance of bread did remaine and this opinion say they was not to be rejected Durand was of opinion That the materiall part of the consecrated bread was not converted insomuch that Bellarmine professeth that saying of Durand is hereticall although he is no heretike because he is ready to submit to the judgement of the Church Wickliffe saith that Friers perverten the right faith of the Sacrament of the Auter and bringen in a new heresie of an Accident withouten subject and whence Holy writ sayes openly that this Sacrament is bread that wee breaken and Gods body they sayen that it is nother bread nor Gods body but accident withouten subject and nought and thus they leaven holy writ and taken new heresie on Christ and his Apostles and on Austin Ierom Ambrose Isidore and other Saints and the Court of Rome and all true Christian men that holden the faith of the Gospell Now for his owne opinion he expresseth it in these termes that the body of Christ was really truely in the Sacrament in his