Selected quad for the lemma: duty_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
duty_n	child_n	covenant_n	parent_n	1,796	5	9.1412	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
B09776	The Anabaptists meribah: or, VVaters of strife. Being a reply to a late insulting pamphlet, written by Thomas Lamb, merchant, intitulled, Truth prevailing against the fiercest opposition; or, An answer to Mr. John Goodwins Water-dipping, no firm footing for church-communion. Wherein the impertinency of M. Lamb's answer, and the validity of M. Goodwin's Water-dipping, &c. are manifested by I. Price a member of the Church of Christ, whereof the said Mr. Goodwin is pastor.	Price, J., fl. 1656.	1656 (1656)	Wing P3332A; ESTC R182056	87,699	107

untill they came to years of knowledg and understanding Even so baptizing of children as well as men and women of discretion may be accompanied with the presence of Christ unto the standers by unto the administrators and Witnesses of the thing done and do service for the present upon them and upon children also when they are capable to understand the Mysteries of God imported therein As for that passage in this your second consideration wherein you say that Baptism with water c. is an Ordinance and command of Christ Serving the Grand Interest of Remission of sins Mr. Lamb. and salvation in some sense SECT XXXIII IF by serving the grand-interest of remission of sins and salvation in some sense be meant only this Reply How baptisme serveth the interest of Remission of Sins and how not that as the other Ordinances of Jesus Christ preaching prayer c. do serve or subserve unto these grand ends mentioned we are all brethren in this precious faith together with you We do believe that all Gods Ordinances and consequently this of baptism do accommodate and serve the grand-interest of remission of sins and salvation in some sense though every one in its own order and manner But 2. If by serving the grand-interest of remission of sins and salvation in some sense You mean as if there was as absolute necessity unto remission of sins and salvation that men and women should be baptized as well as believe and that it is not faith alone that justifieth or without baptism because as some of you have sensed it Jesus Christ hath said that he that believeth and is baptised shall be saved if you say of haptism and of the manner thereof according to your apprehensions as the Iews that came from Iudea Acts the 15. chapt ver 1. said of circumcision except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses ye cannot be saved if this be your sense concerning baptism and the manner thereof viz. Dipping c. then I say though you or an Angell from heaven shall bring in baptism or any thing else in competition with faith unto justification as some once brought in circumcision contrary to the Doctrine of truth which we have received you are and shall be unto us in this point as accursed And we rather affirm that if in this sense or with this hope and expectation you preach the necessity of baptism and dipping c. that Christ shall profit you nothing Again Whereas you further adde in this your second consideration that Baptism was Commanded by Christ to be done upon Discipled Persons I Answer Mr. Lamb. SECT XXXIII 1. Reply In whatsense children are discipled persons cipled persons in what sense not THat if by Discipled persons you mean only persons that are taught and have learned personally the truth as it is in Jesus I deny any such command of Christ concerning Baptism neither doth any word in the commission imply in the least any such thing The word in the Commission is Nations Go ye and teach all Nations baptizing them c. and we have granted that no nations are to be baptised but the discipled nations as no nation was to be circumcised but the discipled nation of the Jews Yet undiscipled persons at least in your sense undiscipled were circumcised Even so I conceive though no nations of the Gentiles were to be baptized but discipled nations yet children not actually and with understanding brought to the knowledg of Christ may be baptized 2. Suppose it be granted that none but discipled persons are to be baptized yet will it not follow that children must not be baptized The reason is because in Scripture-sense children of discipled parents are called discipled persons Act. 15.10 VVhy do ye tempt God to put a yoak upon the neck of the Disciples Children are called Disciples in Scripture c. This yoak is circumcision all are called Disciples upon whom this yoak was put Now this yoak was not put upon the neck of the believing Jews in respect of their personall subjection to circumcision for they were circumcised already but upon their children or upon them in respect of their children who are here called Disciples Again Iohn 9.28 said the Jews to the man whom Christ cured being born blinde we are Moses Disciples we that is the whole Nation of us Jews are Moses Disciples under the discipline of Moses Law And you know that children were under Moses his discipline in respect of circumcision Again the Scripture calls children by the name of Gods servants Lev. 25.41 42. Then shall he depart from thee both he and his children with him speaking of the jewish servants and their children when the year of Jubile comes for saith God they are my servants he and his children c. for they that is he and his children are my Servants If children may be called Moses Disciples and Gods Servants under the Law why may they not be reputed Christs Disciples and his Servants under the Gospel Again the holy actions of Parents are said to be done also by their children 2 Chron. 20.4 Jehoshaphat proclaimed a fast and Iudah gathered themselves together to ask or pray for help of the Lord Who are meant by Judah See verse the 13th And all Iudah stood before the Lord with their little ones their wives and their children thus children are said to pray with their fathers Again Deut. 29.10 11. Ye stand this day all of you before the Lord your God your captains of your Tribes your Elders and your Officers with all the men of Israel your little ones your wives c. that thou shouldest enter into covenant with the Lord thy God and into his Oath c. Thus children are said to Fast to Pray to Repent to enter into covenant viz. in Gods mercifull acceptation their Parents being exercised in those duties Why may they not be said now also to be the same with their Parents Again Psal 22.9 David saith thus Thou art he that tookest me out of the womb thou did'st make me to hope when I was upon my Mothers Breasts What is more plain in Scripture than this viz. in Gods gracious account children are said to hope and depend upon him even before they come to understand the Doctrine of hope Again Mat. 18.5 6. children are said to believe in Christ and a fearfull judgement denounced against those that shall do them injury And whether you do not wrong them by excluding them from the Ordinance of Baptism it concerns you wel to consider See the like Mark 9.36 37. and 42. compared together Again Mark 10.13 14 15. Again Math. 19.13 14 15. You shall see the heart and soul of Jesus Christ is free in the admission of children unto him though you thrust them away from him As for that last clause in your second consideration wherein you take notice that the celebration of Baptism upon discipled persons was commanded to be done With huge solemnity

Neighbours if his Parents dyed in his Infancie told him so May not Christians when they they come to age nay are they not bound as much to believe their Parents telling them of their baptism as the Iewish Children were bound to believe their Parents telling them that the Mark on the foreskin of their flesh or the want of their praepatium was the Mark of their circumcision which they received according to the Laws of their religion when they were but eight dayes old Or whether that baptism upon such an information and belief of it be not as proper and apt to do spirituall service upon their hearts as circumcision was to do upon the hearts of the Jews children when they come to age It is sad to see such shadows of Arguments to divert men from the wayes of truth Your seventh Particular contains little also but what you have already spoken and hath been also spoken unto I see we have seen your strength and what you have to say You run so much upon repititions but though your spirits be spent and strength is gone yet your courage remains You have a good minde at it still Hence it is that you snatch up your we opens again tho the strength of your arm is hardly able to hold them Here also you reminde us of your findings which you have ●an over and over and over again as if you had no sooner found any thing but you lost it again and then you finde it again What have you found here I finde the Scriptures in all expressness of Letter are in many places for Believers Baptism Mr. Lamb. This hath been affirmed and granted granted and affirmed but what then Reply Whereas there is not one such Text for children Mr. Lamb. nor any instance of the Baptism so much as of one child in all the New-Testament SECT XLI WHat if there be not one such Text for childrens baptism for it may be your emphasis lyeth there doth it follow that there is no text at all for the justification thereof We have found text upon text and text after text namely all those texts recording the commands of Christ upon his Apostles and Disciples concerning baptism so conditioned qualified and phrased as that all the art and skill that either you or the greatest of your Champions you have cannot with a salvage unto your right reason honour and conscience exclude children from the intention of Iesus Christ as the legitimate and due subjects of baptism And where as you say there is not any instance of the baptism so much as of one child in all the New-Testament we have found also satisfaction upon satisfaction and satisfaction after satisfaction from all those texts likewise recording the exequation of Christs commands concerning baptism as that neither you nor all the Armies of your party can evince the contrary but that here were many hundreds of children baptized where and when Ierusalem and all Iudea and all the Regions beyond Iordan being Iews and therefore would doubtless have quarrelled if their children had been rejected were baptized as also where we read of thousands and of families and houses c. that were baptized But it is worthy observation that you tell us That many learned men have acknowledged Mr. Lamb. that Infant-baptism is not in Gods Word SECT XLV 1. Reply IF you mean that many learned men have acknowledged that there is no expressness of Letter in Gods word Mr. Lamb rejoyceth in the testimony of learned men when he can finde any of them of his judgment about baptism though he cautioneth us about Mr. Goodwins learning shewing de facto that children were baptized it is not denyed you nor doth it make any thing for your purpose For neither is there any expressness of the Letter shewing where any women did partake of the Lords Supper And yet you judge it their duty being otherwayes qualified for the same to partake thereof But 2. If you mean that many learned-men have acknowledged that Infants baptism cannot be proved in Gods word to be lawfull nay not a duty I cannot but observe how that one of a City and two of a Tribe of learned men of your way do amount unto many in your eyes Surely if you glory thus in the gleanings what would you do if the vintage were your own Why should Mr. Goodwins learning hang in his light any more than other mens Well however every one of the many you mention be interpreters even one of a thousand yet shall they not be Rabbies unto me nor have any dominion over my faith in the point in hand You add And those that go about to found it Infant-baptism on Scripture build all on consequences ifs may-bees Mr. Lamb. why-nots which argument Mr. Goodwin hath often used to confirm the Doctrine of generall Redemption and to draw the contrary opinion under the suspition of error SECT XLIV DOth not Scriptures speak consequences in premises Reply as well as the premises themselves The Scripture no where saith Scripture speaks consequences as welas principles or premises That any one whose name was is or ever should be Thomas Lamb shall or may possibly be saved Can it not be proved therefore that one Thomas Lamb shall or possibly may be saved as well as if the Scripture had the express saying therein that one Thomas Lamb shall or may be saved The Scripture makes mention of Paul desiring Philemon to receive Onesimus not as a servant but above a servant a brother beloved May not a man affirm hence that Onesimus was not with Philemon when he wrote thus unto him When the Scripture saith speaking of Christs Mother and the virgins name was Mary may not we say and insist upon it as a truth very proveable from the Holy Scriptures that Mary was a virgin Again if we must not build upon ifs may-bee's and why-nots Mr. Lambs proofs by consequences are good but he wil not suffer other men to prove Doctrines by consequences how come you to affirm with that magisteriall confidence as you do that the baptizing of children is unlawfull that no children were baptized by Iohn or any others mentioned in the Holy Scriptures that it is unlawful to joyn with such persons in Church-fellowship that were baptized only in their infancie with many other of the like nature having indeed not so much as any rationall ifs may-bee's and why-nots from Scripture for the confirmation thereof would any man suppose that so much as a babe in Christ would reason after this rate Where have you been since you left us But whereas you add Mr. Lamb. which argument I suppose you mean which manner of arguing by Mr. Goodwins adverse viz. from ifs may-bee's why-nots Mr. Goodwin hath often used to confirm the Doctrine of Generall Redemption and to draw the contrary opinion under the suspition of error SECT XLVII IT would require you more pains to shew us one place in all his writings

which you say he hath after used of such splashy Reply shallow watry thin and barren argumentation either pro or con than the writing of seven such boo●s as this is which we now implead You speak much of your findings but if you have found any such place in all his writings namely where he hath denyed that true proper and natural consequences from granted premises in the Scripture are not to be admitted as the truths of God I believe you may rejoyce in it and eat the morsells thereof your self alone having no partner with you therein in any part of the world whereof the Sun in the firmament is Overseer But this is onely to give Mr. Goodwin a running-rap but you could not reach him You procee 8. Mr. Lamb. I found the unregenerate world naturally falling in with childrens baptism which is a shrewd sign is a de●ice of her own the world loveth her own c. SECT XLVIII YOU finde the unregenerate world no more naturally falling in with childrens baptism Reply then you found it naturally falling in with the profession of Christ For they are baptized and do baptize their children in no other name nor into the profession of any other Saviour then Jesus Christ And is not this a shrewd argument that this Doctrine of the Messiah the unregenerate world so naturally falleth in withall is a device of her own the world doth love her own Your 9th particular is summ'd up in this Mr. Lamb. infant-Baptism is unlawfull because baptism being the initiating Ordinance into the Church it letteth in a sort of Members which the New-Testament knoweth not namely such as cannot worship God inspirit God now seeking onely such to worship him The whole bedy must be fitly framed together and every part must effectually work And can these things be affirmed of children SECT XLIX First you affirm that baptism is the innitiating Ordinance into the Church I suppose you mean not the Church generall but dejure it is the initrating Ordinance into particular Churches If that be your meaning Baptism not proved to be the initiating Ordinance into Church-fellowship this then is such a conclusion as you can hardly make good no not by any ifs may-bee's and why-nots gatherable from any place or places in the Holy Scriptures that is to say that baptism did make any person ipsosacto a member of any particular Church But it is proveable that many and many were baptized of whom it is impossible to prove that by baptism or any other way they were ever immembred into any particular Church And it is a difficulty too hard for you or I or any other in the world to undertake namely to prove that all and every particular member of particular Churches were ever baptized at all 2. It is true Gad seeketh such and onely such now to worship him as can worship him in spirit and in truth Iohn 4.23 that is as I conceive according to the context Now the time of reformation approacheth God will be worshipped and obeyed neither in the Iudaicall rites consisting in external performances as some among you so much contend for nor according to the Samaritans false worship who worshipped their Idol Gods together with God 2 King 17.26 27 28 29. but in a pure spirituall manner extending to the very heart such as was typified by those shaddows and the Son of God comes now to draw all men unto this way of worship from the Iudaicall from the Samaritan way This text indeed with severall others renders men uncapable of Church-worship in an acceptable manner that content themselves only with outward forms and yet leading a vitious life But what is this to the exclusion of children As for them here is the grace of the Gospell that he accepteth of little children and would not have men forbidden as you do to bring them to Christ He accepteth according to what any person hath and not according to what he hath not 3. Again God was alwayes a spirit as well as now and he did alwayes seek for such to worship him as should worship him in spirit and in truth as well as now He alwaies loved-truth in the inward parts he alwayes required of all his Sons to give him their hearts in his worship he alwayes commanded the Jews to love the Lord their God with all their hearts and minds and soul and strength Did this under the Law any way hinder that children might not be admitted members of the Iewish Church because they could not perform inward heart-worship and spirituall service did God upon their circumcision accept of them as if they did perform all those spirituall services and heart-heart-duties untill they came to an actuall and personall capacity actually and personally to perform the same And will he not now accept of children baptized as if they did actually and personally perform those services unto him which under the Gospell he requireth untill they likewise come to an actuall and personall capacity so to do And then wil he accept or reject them as they are found faithfull or unfaithfull in these things 4. Whereas you say that the New-Testament knoweth us such member of Churches as infants c. I answer that tho I will not say or deny that the New-Testament knoweth not any infant-members of Churches yet the New Testament knoweth and hath taught others also to know that children are due subjects of Baptism And that it never knew not taught any to know where ever they were or ought to be rejected and denyed the participation thereof Our controversie is not about infant-Church-member-ship but infant-baptism Your tenth Argument for your beliefe in the business of Baptism viz. against Infant-Baptisme and for your separation Mr. Lamb. c. is taken from your observation of the righteous hand of God who causeth the sharpest and most able Adversaries to you in this point to let fall such expressions as justifie what they go about to oppose and condemn as Mr. Richard Baxter saith the aged are 1. the most fully capable subiects 2. the most excellent subiects 3. the most eminent subiects 4. of whom Scripture fully speaketh 5. the greater part of the world when Baptism was instituted who were to be partakers of it But on the contrary for infant-baptism he Mr. Baxter acknowledgeth it so dark in the Scripture that the controversie is thereby become not onely hard but so hard c. SECT L. YOU needed indeed to have written this in Capitall Letters that every one that runs may read the profundity thereof Reply The aged are the most capable subjects of Baptisme Ergo Children are no subjects thereof The aged are the most eminent subjects Ergo Children are no subjects Mr. Lambs miserable inferences from Mr. Baxters words the Scripture speaketh fully of them Ergo not at all of Children The aged were the greater part of the world that did partake of Baptisme Ergo Children were no part of the world that did partake