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A91787 An ansvver to the London ministers letter: from them to his Excellency & his Counsel of VVar; as also an answer to John Geree's book, entituled, Might overcomming right; with an answer to a book, entituled, The Armies remembrancer. Wherein it appears the accusations of the Army are unjust, and the Armies proceedings justified by the Word of God, and by the light of nature and reason. Also a discovery of that learning, and ordination these ministers have, and the vanity and insufficiencie thereof, by the Word of God, and that those are the things with which they delude and deceive the people. / By Samuel Richardson. Richardson, Samuel, fl. 1643-1658. 1649 (1649) Wing R1402; Thomason E540_8; ESTC R203398 36,328 40

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them in and keep out the enemy and if he doeth it he hath broak the Letter of the Law but kept the substance of the Law if he had observed the Letter he had not kept the intent of it Suppose the Magistrate find fault with him for not doing as he bid him it 's without a cause he hath done no hurt but good in saving their lives who are without lyable to perish and so did the Army in not disbanding had the Army been a cause of their owne and our sufferings and they had lost the fruit of all their victories if they had laid downe their Armes some others would have taken them up You have ingaged your selves by Oath to preserve his Majesties Person and priviledge of Parliament this is most cleare that no necessity can justifie perjury or dispense with lawfull oathes the bond and tie of an Oath and Covenant is religious and sacred and invincible who will require it at your hands broken Ezek. 17. 14. And necessity cannot dispense with an oath nothing can give one leave to be forsworne an oath is of an absolute indispensible authority If what you say be true are you not perjured miserably forsworne have you forgot what you have sworn covenanted Canonicall obedience c. But of this more when you write againe Secondly You take that for granted which is to prove we deny they are forsworn your saying so is no proof we are willing to put it to the triall and able to prove the contrary The Oath Covenant is to be interpreted according to his sense that gave it and not in his sense that tooke it this you would have but it 's not lawfull to grant it it is not to be interpreted neither in his sense that gave it nor in his that takes it but according to the expresse words of the Covenant If it were granted to either to put what sense they thought fit they might sweare one thing and do another if he intends it to inslave If a Presb●ter give or take the Covenant he thinks he sweares to maintaine Presbyterian Government of which there is not the least word mentioned in the Covenant there is mention of a government according to the Word of God and that is not their Presbytery by their own confession The Assembly of Divines confesse it is not jure divino I am mistaken if they did not sweare the government of Archbishops was agreeable to the Word of God but the Presbytery is the nearest to it if so be but neare to it then it is not it In the Scriptures is prescribed a Government for the Church the House of God Presbytery they say is not it but neare to it If then Presbyterian government had in expresse words been in the Covenant and I had taken it I could with a good conscience have broke my oath for that oath that is not lawfull to take is not lawfull to be kept it is not lawfull for me to sweare to maintain a government for Christs that is not his though it be never so neare it or like it But say they we swore to maintain that government that is according to the best reformed Church for each of theirs is the best in their judgments and consciences els I should wonder if they should approve and practise contrary to their consciences yea and he that denieth all Church-government may take the Covenant without scruple because the Covenant expresses none and he believes there is none and when he seeth which it is he will owne it and defend it and before it is unreasonable to expect it from him I wonder the Priests should so take the Covenant for the text and preach so on it there is nothing in that which is so cleer to them what is plainly expressed they cannot agree how the words are to be read the Priests read to protect the person of the King and there make such a full stop and go no further others say they must read on and take with it in the defence maintenance and protection of the King in his just Rights and what they are men cannot agree Some say his just Rights are to be King others say he hath lost all his just Rights others say it is his just right to lose his life the Covenant resolves this not I cannot tell what are his just Rights nor can learn what the Covenant meanes or requires I must leave it to the Schollers and those that can tell The like may be said for the other branches of the Covenant If an oath be indispensable then persons must sin rather then break it and then the vow of single life binds be the cause what it will and so if any have sworn to murder a thousand persons or more it seems they must do it is not this the Popes Doctrine to murder Kings and others which is to be detested That an oath binds more then the Law of God we deny and put you to prove it Is there not the highest authority in Gods commands can any thing bind us more then his commands yet ye see Matth. 12. 1 to 7. they are dispensible You say an oath is part of the worship of God if it be but a part of it it is not more then the whole also Gods worship must give place to acts of mercy and love I will have mercy 〈◊〉 not sacrifice Hosea 6. 6. Mal. 12. 7. it was lawfull to neglect the publike worship and command of God to give suck c. in that they were not blamed for not going to Jerusalem to worship though all were commanded to goe thither No necessity is sufficient to dispense with a morall Law is it not a morall duty to worship God swearing is a part of instituted worship but meerly naturall or morall as you call it wee need not bee inforced to doe that which is naturall an oath that is detrimentall to a particular Law must bee kept Psal. 15. 4. I grant it if it bee in that or the like cause but not in all causes that can be named for what is not lawfull to sweare is not lawfull to be done because they have sworn to doe it No hunger can make stealing no stealing Proverbs chap. 6. vers. 30. Wee allow not men when they are hungry to take that which is not their owne yet wee say that which in it selfe is stealing may lawfully bee done without sin if the hunger be of that extremity as to indanger life and no other help or remedy can be had then it is not stealing yet restitution is to be made to affirme it is stealing is to maintain that a man may sin to save his life if I ought to break the Oath I am not forsworne to do it when two duties come together at one time and I cannot do both the one for that present ceaseth to be a duty this was Davids cause it eating the Shew-bread no man may tell a lye nor commit any sin to save his life and that men
because God doth in expresse words commend it and reward it v. 11. 12. 13. you use to say it is an extraordinary cause but the Scripture saith not so therefore it s but an extraordinary put off so shift your hands of it tell us how we shall know when we have such an extraordinary cause that we may do so in that cause the Lord doth not say he did well because he was a Magistrate and had jurisdiction and cloathed with authority but he was zealous for his God ought not the Army as well as others to be zealous for God But if after that act of Phineas so such act could be lawfull why is this act of his Recommended to all Generations for evermore Psal. 106. 30. 31. God had appointed such parsons as he slew to death the Magistrate did not do Justice therefore God sent the Plague among the people he knew none else would do it all ealse refusing it fell to be his duty and he did it and the plague ceased and it is recorded for after generations for a righteous act this is the Armies cause and though you condemn it we passe not so long as Gods word warrants it and shall be a righteous act to all Generations for evermore wisdom is justified of her Children I am no Magistrate it belongs not to me to passe sentence upon any man much lesse to put him to death but suppose I be set upon in my journey so as I see not how I can scape with my life but I must kill or be killed now the cause is altered I may murther him as you call it and the Law saith it s no murther I had sinned if I had not done it for that Law that requires me to preserve my Neighbours life bids me preserve my own first charity is to begin at home though not to end there upon this ground if the cause were the same there be them that would put no difference between a Priest and another man 7 If God discover his Will to men and give them hearts and opportunities wisedome and power to doe it it s there calling and commission to doe it I know no calling that I have to take care and provide provision and cloaths for another mans wife Besides it is not of good report but rather a scandall to doe it but suppose her Husband cannot or will not nor any else provide them for her and she cannot help her selfe now the cause is altered I must be mercifull and if I be able to help to provide those things for her and if I suffer her to perish will it not be my sinne also This is the cause of the Kingdome the King should have help't c. but did not then it became the duty of the Parliament to have releeved the Kingdome but they did not her necessities great and many Petitions concerning th●● were sleighted and burnt waited many yeares for help our oppressions not removed all complaine dangers increase no remedy appeares they not help us nor tell us how long it will be before this Parliament will be at an end that we may have another to see if they will help us when all failes no ground of hope of life is left danger eminent and no other meanes of help left this is a cause of necessity Now it 's the duty of the Army to help and if they had not it had been their sinne if not their overthrow if they had suffered it to perish the Kingdome had been well holpen up with a remedy in extremity If the Army had been as the Priest and Levit that allowed no help to the man this the wounded and dying Kingdom I would if I could have done it my selfe alone and not aske no leave God requires me to doe all the good I can to my selfe and others if I can doe good without man I will not ask his leave I need not suppose I see one a robbing of another or hath taken his Cloake c. from him I will require him to give it him againe if he will not if I can I will take it by force and give it the owner If he or any say You are out of your Calling what and who gave you commission to meddle with me So long as I doe that which is just I passe not for such words it is my duty as a man and as a Christian to releeve the oppressed and doe what good I can if I were able I would quickly remove all the oppressions in this Kingdom and the next and if I could the next to that and I should sinne if I did not doe it Who gave Cromwell Commission to doe so much good as he did in Scotland I doubt that the old Cavise and the new ones the Priests are unsatisfied scrupeled and very much doubt of his call into Scotland c. 8 The Army had a cleare call to doe what they did according to the London Ministers Principle as appeares clearly from their owne confession they say A necessity of a Letter must be framed to the Generall c. but observe upon what grounds they make it appeare they have a call from God to doe so We apprehend our selves obliged thus to appear for the maintenance of and setling the Government of the Kingdom to testifie our utter dislike and detestation it is most apparent to us your way and practice is unlawfull and irrigular in zeale for Gods glory we have discharged our duty This is in their Judgements and Conscience a cleare call so that if the Army can say the same things they have the same call they have I should be heartily sorry if they had no better call then the Ministers whose Conscience I appeale to whether if they had power in their hands to reforme all things that in their Consciences are amisse whether they doe not judge that they ought to doe it and should sinne if they did not doe it though they are no Magistrates if they say ye then they justifie the Army for they doe but according as they are perswaded by God in his Word and their owne Conscience if they say no if I did beleeve them I am perswaded their judgements would change the very first day that the power comes in their hands 9 The Army had an expresse command of God to warrant their not disbanding and ceazing on the Members and the sixth Command injoynes that they should doe no murder this generall command comprehends all the particulars under it by way of precept are injoyned I must doe no murder therefore 〈◊〉 must use all the meanes of the preservation of my life and my Neighbours but the ceazing on these Members is a meanes of preventing this evill I see disbanding and permission of these Members is inconsistent to the safety of our lives and others by the Law of Nature every one is to use all lawfull meanes to preserve himselfe and others the blame must rest on them that caused it that is these Parliament Men
enemies Psal. 16. 8. One cause surely is that his people may dwell quietly and safely c. God hath blasted them that would have kept us from our sweetest liberty The King and his Bishops denyed it to us and God hath blasted them those of the Parliament promised liberty to us but did not give it us God hath blasted them the Synod with the Ministry of England should have spoken for us and they spoke against us and God hath blasted them many of them are as the dung upon the earth abhorred and if the Army had neglected us herein God would have blasted them Jerusalem is a burndensome stone all that oppose it dash themselves in pieces if they had neglected us it would have been their sinne griefe and trouble hereafter if they could have escaped that we had met with all besides what persecution had come upon us by their neglect had bin their persecution besides if they had not been for us they had bin against us If you say ye desire liberty for the people of God but not for others You could not provide for the one and exclude the rest If the Children have any bread the dogs will have some something is their allowance Truth Lord the dogs eat the crums that fall from the childrens table Though mens mouths cannot be stopped from exclayming against them there are grounds sufficient to warrant and justifie what they have done herein say some what liberty for all errors heresies and blasphemies and Papists we desire not that idolatry to be allowed publickly If you can tell us how liberty for the truth and people of God may be had that the Saints may not suffer nor the truth suppressed but errors heresies c. suppressed and I dare venture my life the Army will gladly hearken to you He saith the Army rob the Parliament of their coercisive power in matters of Religion you say they have such a power but we could never see you prove it Let the Magistrates coersive power in Religion be debated in Parliament by a native liberty debate truly before a free Parliament if wee convince them not let them carry it this is but a brag this Parliament to you and the Cavies is no free Parliament speak plainly what you will stand to make your challenge if you have the truth on your side and see if there be not them that will debate it with you or bring forth your strong reasons and if they cannot be answered by my consent you shall carry it Answer these reasons if you can if the Parliament are to Judge what is truth and what is error in Religion then it doth follow that the Magistrate must have a certainty of knowledge in all opinions and causes in Religion else how is he able to judge which is the truth and if he hath not such knowledge may he be owned fit for a Magistrate it wil be a doubt whether it be lawful for any to be a Magistrate that hath not such knowledg as his work requires and by this rule we shal have no Magistrate at all because no man hath ability of knowledge to determine in all causes and doubts in Religion 2. If the Magistrate is to determine what is truth whether it wil not follow that we must beleeve and live by the Magistrates faith and change our Religion at their pleasure and if they will approve of no Religion it seems we must have no Religion at all the Saints in Scripture are commanded to worship God whether the Magistrate like it or no see Mat. 28. 18 19 20. Heb. 10. 25. Acts 45 18 19 20. 23. Acts 5. 20. 22. 28. Contrary to authority Acts 17. and 18. 49. Dan. 13. Acts 4. 5. 48. Acts 17. 7. Acts 40. 4. 19. 29 40. Acts 21. 30. 31. If the Magistrate as a Magistrate may lawfully punish those that they are perswaded in their consciences are erroneous and heretical then Queen Mary and her Parliament did well in burning the Martyrs for they in their consciences were perswaded they were so If the Magistrate have power in spirituals why call you not him a spirituall Magistrate the Magistrate hath his power from the people and then it will follow that the people as a people have originally as men a power to governe the Church to see her doe her duty to reforme and correct her and so the Spouse the wife of Christ who is a Kings daughter and a Queen must be whipt or corrected according to the pleasure of the world who by wickednesse 1 Iohn 5. 3 Are they to make Lawes concerning Religion or to appoint any materiall prisons for Blasphemers of Christ we require you to prove it in Christs Testament if the old Testament is to be their rule then see what they must do●Deut 13. 3. 9. 15. 16. you will not doe so you are to prove that Christs Church is to be planted by violence and blood-shed and that Christ would have men compelled by fines and imprisonment to serve him 4. Uniformity in Religion in the State do trouble the consciences of many and impovrish the Saints and cause them to lose their lives for lawes concerning Religion catch the best men who make conscience witnesse Daniel the three children men in zeale for Religion persecute Christ and thinke they doe good service when they kill them if they must judge what is truth wee must alwayes be persecuted they will call truth blasphemy the truth hath but a few to own it the world are like to outroot them and then we are judged and noted hereticks and must suffer the army desired persecution of the truth and people of God might cease they saw the name of settling Religion to be but a pretence to establish errour and persecution and that so long as lawes were made concerning Religion the Kingdom could not be quiet they are against suffring of errors as much as you they desire some might be appointed to write against errors they knew that the judgements and consciences of men doe so differ that it is not possible they could submit to one way of Religion and that we ought to do as we would be done unto if one man is to be punished for his errors then all men must be punished because no man is free from error all truth is not among one sort of men there is no man doth judge his own judgement erronious they that now hold errors may hold the truth if there were no error it could not be known what is truth or not be so glorious it is not in the power of man to believe what he wil and as he will the mind of man is perswaded with great reasons truly so or so apprehended will he nil he if hee should doe contrary he should do contrary to his own judgement and conscience which God forbid Rom. 14. They could not see it that it was fit to make such sole Judges in matters of Religion who are not infallible and as liable to error