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A70435 A letter of many ministers in old England requesting the judgement of their reverend brethren in New England concerning nine positions written Anno Dom. 1637 : together with their answer thereunto returned, anno 1639 : and the reply made unto the said answer and sent over unto them, anno 1640 / by Simeon Ash, and William Rathband. Ashe, Simeon, d. 1662.; Rathband, William, d. 1695. 1643 (1643) Wing L1573A; ESTC R11945 105,990 100

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then the words are more then superfluous Added they were to prevent the objection which you foresaw might be made from the Apostles practice and example but so as they cut asunder the sinews of the consideration it selfe and make it of no force For as those beleivers were of the Church so are approved Christians and their seed among us therefore the priviledges of the seales belong unto them 2 And as the seales so is the word of salvation preached and received a priviledge of the Church If by the preaching of the word you understand nothing but the tender of salvation or the publishing of the will of God concerning the salvation of man whether by private or publike persons it is not proper to the Church but an ordinance given for the gathering of men to the Church and not only for the edifying of the Church For the Apostles first preached to the Gentiles when Infidels that they might be converted And we doubt not but a Minister or private Christian comming into a country of Infidells may as occasion is offered and as they shall be inabled instruct and perswade them to receive the faith of Christ but if by the preaching of the word be meant the giving of the word to a people to abide and continue with them and consequently their receiving of it at least in profession then it is proper to the Church of God The word makes disciples to Christ and the word given to a people is Gods covenanting with them and the peoples receiving this word and professing their faith in God through Iesus Christ is the taking of God to bee their God The lawes and statutes which God gave to Israell was the honour and ornament to that Nation and a testimony that God had separated them from all other people even the Gentiles themselves being Iudges The word of reconciliation is sent and given to the world reconciled in Iesus Christ and they that receive the doctrine law or word of God are the Disciples servants and people of God In your second consideration you intimate that there is a two fold preaching the one by office and authority the other in Common charity or how ever else it may be called For thus you write God hath joyned to preach viz by office and to baptize together therefore we may not separate them Now to preach unto that is to instruct or counsell in charity is a duty which may be performed to an infidell but to preach by office is proper to them that are called to that office and so to be taught and instructed by Officers in the Church is proper to the Church To have pastors who shall feed with knowledge and understanding is a gift of matrimoniall love which God vouchsafeth unto his Church The Apostles first gathered Churches and then ordained elders in everie Citie or Church so that it is proper to the Church to be fed and guided by true spirituall pastors who teach and blesse in the name of the Lord. And if the word preached and received bee a certaine note of the true Church they that have intyrely received the word of salvation and have Pastors godly and faithfull to feede and guide them they and their seed have right and interest unto the seales in order Moreover the true worship of God is an inseparable and infallible marke of the true Church of God for where Christ is there is his Church This is the prerogative of the church The Prince shall be in the midst of them and he shall go in when they goe in c. And Christ saith where 2. or 3. are met together in my name there am I in the middest among them And for certain they are gathered in the name of Christ that being lawfully called doe assemble to worship God and call upon his name in the mediation of Iesus Christ In times past the Church was acknowledged by the feare of God and entyre Service of his Majestie by the professing of the true faith and faithfull calling upon Gods name The signes of Apostolike Churches are these The continuance in the Apostles doctrine and fellowship and breaking of bread and prayer And if faith true and lively though mixed with many doubtings and errors make a man a living member of Iesus Christ the entyre profession of true faith joyned with holynesse of life in some measure answerable thereunto makes a man a true member of the visible Church And if the feales belong to the Church in right and orderly dispensation they that joyne together in the true worship of God according to his will with godly and faithfull pastors they have right and title to the Sacraments according to divine institution Thirdly that there is now no visible Catholike Church in your sense will easily bee granted i. e. there is no universall society consisting of all such as are accounted or to bee esteemed Christians subjected to one or many vniversall Pastors or guides wherwithall subordinates must communicate in some sacred things which may make them one Church and which may and can be performed by that vniversall and head Church only Such an vniversall Christian Church Christ never ordained no not in the dayes of the Apostles to whom all the care of all the Churches was committed The Churches planted by the Apostles had all the same substantiall lawes and customes the same guides and officers for kinde the same ordinances of worship and meanes of Salvation But one flock or Society in the fore mentioned acceptation they were not because they were but subordinate to one visible head Christ with which they were to hold union and communion in some worship to be performed by them all jointly assembled at some speciall solemnity nor subjected to the government of any supreame tribunall constantly to be erected and continued among them Neverthelesse in some respects of reason the visible Church may be called the Church sheepfold or flock of Christ for if the whole society or body mysticall of Christ be one this Church militant in like sort is one the unity of which society consists in that uniformity which all severall persons thereunto belonging have by reason of that one Lord whose servants they all are and professe themselves that one Spirit whereby they are animated as the body by one soul whereby they believe in Christ and which they acknowledge and professe that one Baptisme inward and outward whereby they put on Christ and are initiated This society is one in the inward fruition and enjoying of the benefits of Christs Death and Resurrection and in outward profession of those things which supernaturally appertain to the very essence of the Church and are necessarily required in every Christian this acceptation of the word is not unusuall in Scripture As God hath set some in the Church His bodies sake which is the Church The Church viz. whereof Paul was made a Minister and whereunto the rest of the Apostles were ordained
13. 1● D. exam 〈◊〉 tents p 309. Mat. 3. 7. 10 42. Act. 2 37 38. 41. 8 37. 10. 47. 48. 1. Cor. 5. 12. 1. Job 2. 19. 1. Cor. 11. 19. Rev. 22. 15. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1. Tim. 3. 7. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Script ethnici apud patres audiunt 01 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Matth. 8. 11. Ephes 2. 12. Rob. against Ber. p. 101. * Mr. 10. D. Apol. Sect. 40. exam p. 182. What though this inconvenience do arise sometimes through mans corruption it should be otherwise and we must ever consider of the nature of Gods ordinances in their right use c. Rob. against Ber. pa. 213. Respondit caam nullam fuisse cur 10. Bapt. istos accedentes rejiceret ut qui ad ejus bapt venirent cum peccatorum agnitione nec ipse potestatem haberet eos excommunicandi etiamsi fuissent excom digni Beza de Presb. p 23. Recte sane quis illos à sacris prohibuerat c. etsi sit tam sceleratus quispiam quam esse exist imatur tum si tale judicium sibi quisque sumat quae mox fuerit Ecclesie facies sed pretered tenendum est istud in hoc negotio inita cujuspiam cons non probabillas rectam alterius consciam Id. pa. 26. Id in privatorum arbitrio relinquere ut alibi diximus periculosum nimis toti Ecclesiae valde damnosum fuisset Id. p. 80. Demonstr of Disc ca. 4. Rob. against Bern. likely veiwed p. 40. John 4. 2. Math. 28. 19. 1 Cor. 14. 34 35. Tit. 2. 11 12. Rob. ag Ber. pa. 206. Rob. ag Bern. pa. 239. Matth 3 6 7. Iob. 4 2. and 3. 22. Matt. 28 19. 20. Act. 2. 37 38. Act. 8. 12. Act. 8. 47. 11. 16. 17. Act 8 37. Act. 10 47. and 11. 16. 17. Act. 9. 18. Act. 16 14. 33. 1. Cor. 1. 17. Matth. 28. 19. Act. 2. 41. and 8. 12 13 37. Helv. conf c. 20. Gallic Sect. 35. Anglic. ab eo neminem qui velit profiteri nomen Christi ne infantes quidem Christianorum hominum c. Scot. conf c. 23. Belgi● act 34. Zengerm conf de Bapt. insant pro. 44. Argent conf ca. 17. Saxon confes ca. 14. Palab conf Sect. ad usum vero ipsum c. Rob. against Ber. pa. 92. Matth. 28. 19. Act. 2. 41. 8. 12 13 37. and 10. 47. and 2. 39. 1 Cor. 7. 19. Act. 8. 27. Act. 4. 15. Joh 4. 2 3. 3. 27. Act. 10. 48. Whit. de Sacra q. 3. de Bap. cap. 2. pa 260. Act. 8. 12. 9. 18. 1 Cor. 1. 17. Against B. pa. 88. See J. D. Ap. Sect. 12. pa. 152 153 154. Deut. 30. 6. Rom. 10. 6 7 8 9. Rom. 4. 11. Gen. 17. 11 12 and 26. 4. Act. 2. 38. Gal. 3. 26. 27. Tit. 3. 5. Mat. 20. 23. 1 Pet. 3. 21. 1 Cor. 1. 30. Matth. 3. 6. 7. Mark 1. 4. 5. Luk. 13. 3. 16. Matth. 28. 19 20. Mar. 16. 15 16. Act. 2. 37. 47. Act. 8. 12. 14. Act 9. 11-17 Act. 10. 43-48 Vid. Park Pol. Ecclesiastica l. 3. c. 1 2 c. a Fen. Theol. lib. 7. Park de Pol. lib. 3. c. 1. J. D. Apol. 27. Sect. exam p● 238 239 240. b Rob. against Ber. pa. 182. By two or three are meant the meanest communion or societie of Saints with or without Officers Rob. against Ber. Certaine observations p. 4. Onely he that is of the true visible Church and furnished with the power of Christ the keyes of the kingdome for the Censure can admonish his brother in order and those degrees which the word prescribeth Mat. 28. 15. 17. Id. pa 99. The power as to receive in so to cut off any member is given to the whole body together of every Christian Congregation and not to any one member apart or to more members sequestred from the whole using the meetest number for pronouncing the Censures Id. pa. 124-126 If the brethren have libertie in the ordinance of Prophesying they have also libertie in the other ordinance of Excommunication for they are both of the same nature Looke to whom Christ gave the one key of Knowledge to them he gave the other key of Discipline Rob. against Bern. pa. 238 239. Mat. 28. 19 28. Joh. 20. 21 22. 21. 15 16. Gal. 1. 1. Ioh 21. 22. Whit. de pont q. 8. c. 2. 3. 1 Cor. 3. 22. 4. 1. 1 Tim. 3. 15. Authoritas rectorum pro dono quidem ecclesiae à Christo data est sed non pro dono absoluto ut penes totam Ecclesiam resideat cui datur sed pro dono conditionali ut rectoribus ipsis communicetur ad totius aedificationem Park de Polit. lib. 3. cap. 8. 1 Cor. 12. 7. 1 Cor. 3. 12. 1. Tim. 3. 15. 1 Cor. 4. 1. Act. 20. 28. Eph. 4. 8. 11. 1 Co. 12. 28 29 2 Co. 5. 19 20. Tit. 1. 7. Successor habet jurisdictionē ab eo a quo praedecessor alioqui non verè succedit But Pastors and Teachers are the Successors of the Apostles Whit. de pont q. 8. c. 3. Fr Victor rel 2. de potest Ecclesiae q. 2. Alphons de Castr li. 2. c. 24. de insta baret Whit. de pont q. 8. c. 1. Cham. panstr tom 2. lib. 11. c. 18. sect 11. In the Church the Officers are the Ministers of the people whose service the people is to use for administration and executing their judgements that is pronouncing the judgement of the Church and of God first against the obstinate Rob. against Ber. p. 136. The Officers in the Church are both Christs and the peoples Servants and Ministers Id. p. 165. Ames Bel. enerv tom 2. l. 3. c. 1. Ministri Ecclesiastici sunt Ecclesie tanquam objecti circa quod versantur ministri sunt Christi tanquam principalis causae Domini à quo pendent ministri sed nullo modo episcoporum Omnis legatus in causâ legationis suae immediatè pendet ab eo à quo mittitur instrumento mandatorum in corrupto est indelebili a We denie the order of Elders to be superiour to the order of Saints since it is not an order of mastership but of service Rob. against Bern. pa. 201. It were a strange thing that men could have no command over their servants as I have oft shewed the Church-officers to be her servants Id. p. 214. The order of servants is inferiour to the order of them whose servants they are but the order of Church-officers is an order of servants and they by office to serve the people Id. p. 215. 227. Heb. 13. 1. Pro. 12. 19. 1 7. 23. Gen 4. 4. 9. Levit. 19. 17. Mat. 18. 15. Gal. 6. 1. Rob. ag Bern. pa. 230. Exod. 24. 37. Deut. 2. 14. 4. 3. 4. 9. 7. Ezek. 16. 6. 8. Nū 23. 48. 50. Deut. 29. 10. 11 12. Josh 24. 1. 14. 23 24 25. Iudg. 2. 8. 11. 3. 9. 15. 6. 7. 10. 10-17 2 Chr. 15. 12 2 Kin. 11. 17. 23. 3. 2 Chr. 34. 31. Heb. 10 29. 30 Act. 2. 38. 8. 37. 19. 17 18 19. Act. 8. 37. Whit. de pontq 1 ca. 1. p. 14. Ep. 13. li. 3. Rom 15. 14. Heb. 3. 13. Bel. de Cler. li. ● c. 7. Jun. animad contr 5. l. c 7. no● 13. Rom. 12. 12. Theod. hist l. 4. c. 6. Aug Epist 110. 225. Socrat. hist l 7. c. 34 35. 39. Zozom hist l. 2. c. 18 19. Nazian in Epitaphium patris Evagr. l. 2. c. 5. 8. Theod. hist l. 5. c. 23. Jun. animadver in Bel. cont 5. l. 1. c. 7. nor 16 17. Cartur reply 2d part 1. pa. 212. Illiris catal test li. 2. tit Ecclesiae gubern Jos Antiq. l. 20. c. 18. c. 4. See Ambros de officijs l. 1. c. 50. Hieron ad Ocean Epist. ad Nepotian T. C. Reply 1. pa. 41. a Rever Cathol orth tract 2. q. 8. Sect. 3. Cartw. Reply 2. par 1. pa. 273. To baptise is a duty of the Pastors pastoriall office ● D. Apol Ser. exam pa. 287. Exam. of texts pa. 290. Apol. exam of texts p. 288.