that Discipline Which will best appear by a view of the Powers which the Presbytery claims and Exercises But let me Commend One Note to you as Previous to that Examination This Party has constantly screw'd it self into the World by an Oath of Mutual Defence Which Oath they apply as well to the Ruine and Extirpation of their Opponents as to their own Preservation by making it a Test of good Affection to That Interest and Excluding all People whatsoever from any Office or Benefit Ecclesiastical or Civil without subscribing it You cannot deny but this Oath in the very Institution of it is a Violence both upon Law and Conscience and Consequently that the Imposition falls heaviest upon those that make an Honourable and Religious Scruple of their Actions So that here is already exposed the most Considerable part of the Nation for the Subject of their Displeasure with their Lives Liberties and Fortunes at Mercy as you will find upon a further Consideration of their Usurped Authority and Iurisdiction Presb. Leave this way of General Discourse and come to Particular Instances Where is it that you find This Exorbitant Power that you talk of Indep In the very Declaration of the Commission of the General Assembly of Scotland 1648. page 53. The Duties of the Second Table as well as of the First As namely the Duties between King and Subject Parents and Children Husbands and Wives Masters and Servants and the Like being conteined in and to be taught and cleared from the Word of God are in That Respect and so far as concerneth the Point of Conscience a Subject of Ministerial Doctrine and in Difficult Cases a Subject of Cognizance and Iudgment to the Assembly of the Kirk The Dispute here was about the Assemblies Authority in the Question of War or Peace Is not This at one Blow to destroy the Order of all Relations Political Natural and Moral Princes must not presume to make War or Peace To Enact Laws or Abrogate To Spare or Punish without Ecclesiastical Licence The Subject must go to the Masters of the Parish to know whether he shall Obey Authority or Resist it And after the same manner it fares with Parents and Children Husbands and Wives Masters and Servants So that there is not any Person either Publique or Private Or any Action or Office of Regard to Community Family or Alliance that scapes their Pragmatical Scrutiny and Inspection Presb. So far as these Duties are matter of Conscience there is no Doubt but they are of Ecclesiastical Cognisance and further then so they make no Pretension Indep But you must give me leave to tell you then that their Consciences are larger then other Peoples The Old Nonconformist as au Expedient for the settling Ecclesiastical Affairs Page 43. proposes the setting up of Work-Houses for the Poor the Carrying on of the Fishing Trade The taking off of Protections that none may be Imprison'd but according to Law and the Abatement of Taxes The Assembly at Glasgow 1638. passed an Act concerning Salmon Fishing and another about Salt Pans And all This I Warrant ye so far as they concerned Point of Conscience But if you would see what the Consistory calls Conscience in the full Extent we must repair for satisfaction to their Direction and Practises in the matter of Conscience and Excommunication The Kirk proceeds to Excommunication in all Capital Crimes where the Offender that deserv'd to dye is suffer'd to live And in Cases of Fornication Drunkenness Swearing Cursing Sabâ—…ath-Breaking Wanton Words Contempt of the Orders of the Church Oppression of the Poor Deceipt in Buying and Selling by wrong Mete and Measure Presb. Well and what hurt 's in all this Indep None at all But let me proceed They Censure also Excess in Apparel Meat or Drink UNCOMELY GESTURES Contentiousnes without reasonable Cause Chiding Brawling VAINWORDS Every fault that tendeth to the Hurt of a Man's Neighbour or to the Hindrance of the Glory of God Whether by Force or Fraud Word or Deed Manifestly or Secretly Purposely or Ignorantly And the Judgment of the whole is left to the Discretion of the Church So that your very Thoughts are not free The Spiritual Ruler says the Book of Discipline Iudgeth Both Inward Affections and External Actions in respect of Conscience by the Word of God Upon which ground they take upon them to Censure the very SUSPICION of Avarice and Pride Superfluity or Riotousness in Chear or Rayment But upon Dancers Robin Hoods and all Games that brings Loss they have no mercy These particulars are extracted to a syllable out of the most Authentical Records they have to shew for the Warrant of the Scottish Discipline Our Blessed Model But many People perchance will make it a matter of nothing to be Excommunicate upon a Supposition that the Anathema is the uttermost spite of the Censure They never dream of Carâ—…ings Iogges Pillories Shaving their Beards and Cutting half the Hair of their Heads Banishments Pecuniary Muâ—…cts Close Imprisonments and all sorts of Studied Defamations Nay If any man refuse to Subscribe their Confession of Faith Rule of Government and Manner of Worship He is forthwith Excommunicate and upon Remonstrance of a Commissioner from the Presbytery to the Civil Iudg a Warrant granted commanding him to Conform by a Day Certein or to be OUTLAWED If he Conform not within that time his ESTATE MOVE ABLE is FORFEITED and if not within a Year and a Day he Loses his whole REVENUE for his Life After This at the further Instance of the Churches Commissioner Out go Letters of Caption for Apprehending of his Person and Committing him as a Rebel And if he be not to be found These are follow'd with Letters of Inter-Communing forbidding all men either Personally to Confer with him or by Letter or interposed Person to Correspond with him upon Pein of the Inter-Communers being Iudged and Reputed a Rebel of the same Guiltiness As to the General Rule of Excommunication no Person Wife and Family excepted is to have any Communication with the Excommunicate be it in Eating or Drinking Buying or Selling Yea in Saluting or Talking with Him Unless at Commandment or License of the Ministry for his Conversion His Children Begotten and Born after That Sentence not to be admitted to Baptism till of Age to require it Unless the Mother or some special Friends Members of the Kirk Offer and Present the Child Damning the Iniquity and Contempt of the Impenitent There are that do not allow Husbands to accompany with their Wives in the State of Excommuni cation Now upon what has been deliver'd Let any Man Consider the Unchristian Rigor of This Disciplinary Inquisition not only in the Actual Tyranny of it but in the more Miserable Consequences First as it Scandalizes the Gospel and makes the Death of Christ seem to be no Effect by Imposing upon Us such Conditions of Salvation as if the Blessed Angels should descend and Indue Humane shapes they were
endanger Authority as the Other For All may Iudge Thus as well as One. C. 'T is possible they may Nay we 'l suppose an Imposition foul enough to move them all to do so and yet there 's a large difference For Diversity of Iudgment does not shake the Foundation of Authority and a Man may disobey a Sinful Command with great Reverence to the Power that Imposes it N C. You were saying e'en now that my Duty to God and to the King could never be Inconsistent How shall I behave my self I pray'e if the King command one thing and God another I cannot observe the Law without violence to my Conscience nor discharge my Conscience without Offence to the Law What Course shall I take to avoid Enterfering C. Demeaâ—… your self as a Christian toward the LAW of God one the One hand and as a Subject toward the ORDINANCE of God on the Other As considering that you are discharg'd of your Obedience in That Particular but not of your Subjection in the General N. C. Put Case the Supreme Magistrate should by a Law Establish a False Worship C. He 's nevertheless your Prince and even in This Complication you may acquit your self both to God and to Caesar. Though the Worship be amiss The Magistrate is yet to be Reverenc'd and you are to divide the One from the Other in such manner as still both to Fear God and Honour the King This Loyal and Religious Separation of our Duties will set us right in the Main Controversie Where do ye find that Kings Reign upon Condition of Ruling Righteously Or that we owe them Less AFTER Misgovernment then we did Before N. C. But do you say we are bound to Honour an Idolatrous Prince This is not according to the Doctrine of many of our Grave Divines C. They are never the Better Divines for That Doctrine The Prince I tell ye you are bound to Honour though not as an Idolater Shall the Vice or Errour of the Person degrade the Order By That Rule The World must continue without a Government till we can find Men without Failings N. C. So that when it makes for your Turn you can Allow I see of Distinguishing betwixt the PERSON and the OFFICE C. Betwixt the Frailty of the One and the Sacredness of the Other I do for Kings Command as Gods though they Iudge as Men. But I do no more approve of Dividing the Person of a Prince from his Authority then of Dividing his Soul from his Body N. C. And I beseech you What is That which you call AUTHORITY C. It is the Will and Power of a Multitude deliver'd up by Common Consent to some One Person or More for the Good and Safety of the Whole And This Representative Acts for All. Now on the other side The Disposition of such or such a Number of Persons into an Order of Commanding and Obeying is That which we call a Society N. C. What is the Duty of the Supreme Magistrate C. To procure the Welfare of the People Or according to the Apostle He is the Minister of God for a Comfort to those that do Well and for a Terrour to Evil doers N. C. How far are his Laws Binding upon his Subjects C. So far as They that Parted with their Power had a Right over Themselves N. C. Whence was the Original of Power And what Form of Government was First Regal or Popular C. Power was Ordein'd of God but Specifi'd by Man And beyond doubt the First Form of Government was Monarchique N. C. But I should rather think the Popular Form was First For how could there be a King without a People C So was the Son before the Father you may say for How could there be a Father without a Son But the Qâ—…estion is First Was the World ever without a Government since the Creation of Mâ—…n Secondly Whether was there first in the World One Man or More But we are not here upon the Form of Government but upon the Latitude of Humane Iurisdiction be the Sovereignty where it will And my Assertion is that It extends to whatsoever God has left Indifferent If you deny This you overthrow all Government N. C And what are you the better If I should grant it unless we could All come to an Agreement about what is Indifferent and what not C. Which must be procured by the Allowance of some Iudicial Authority to decâ—…de it SECT XXII No End of Controversie without a FINAL and UNACCOMPTABLE JUDGE from whose Sentence there shall be no Appeal C. WHen Subjects come once to Dispute Laws The War is already Declar'd against the Government For it is not the Equity or Iniquity of the MATTER of the Law that is the Question but the AUTHORITY of the LAW-MAKER under the countenance indeed of somewhat that might be mended in the Law it self And the Business comes Immediately to This Issue Whether the King or the People shall Determine in what concerns the Good of the Community That is to say Whether the Government shall Stand or Fall Whether or no we shall submit our selves quietly to be over-ruled in all Controversies by a Definitive Sentence of Law according to the End and Intention of Government in its first Institution Or otherwise by receding from that Common Peaceable and Impartial Arbitrator of all our Differences from our Faith given our Oaths and Contracts throw our selves back again into a State of Nature and Dissolution and for want of a Moderator leave all our Disagreements to be decided by the Sword The certain Event of all Popular Appeals from Laws to Multitudes This was tbe Ruine of us in our Late Confusions The Faction you saw could do nothing upon the Suggestions of Right or Wrong Convenience or Inconvenience till they came to make Themselves the Iudges of it And no sooner were they Possest of That Pretension but all went presently head-long to Destruction From Questioning the Legal Power of the King they proceeded to the Exercise of an Arbitrary Power Themselves From Asserting the Subjects Liberties to the Invading of them And from the Reformation of Abuses to the Extirpation of the Government The Two Houses led the Dance and outed the King The Commons did as much for the Lords and the People as much for the Commons Which comes to no more then what was reasonably to be expected upon turning the Course of Publick Affairs into a wrong Channel and subjecting the Indisputable Rights of Sovereign Authority to the Censures and Expostulations of the Rabble N. C. What are those Indisputable Rights I beseech ye C. I reckon among others The Power of Making Laws and likewise of Enforcing the Execution of them without admitting any sort of Demur or Contradiction for let the People break in once upon any One Law and they will hardly quit their hold till they have worm'd out or unsettled all the Rest. In short I do esteem it a matter of Absolute Necessity to the Peace and the very Beeing
Supposition likewise into Consideration and Word the whole Matter as plainly as we can The Church says Ye may Do And the Law says You must Do That which your Conscience says You ought not to Do. How will you reconcile your Duty and your Conscience in This Case N. C. Uery well For I think it my Duty to Obey my Conscience upon This Principle That Conscience is God's Substitute over Individuals C. Keep to That and Answer me once again Is not the Civil Magistrate God's Substitute too If He be How comes your Conscience to take place of his Authority They are Both Commission'd alike and consequently Both to be Obey'd alike Which is Impossible where their Commands are Inconsistent N. C. The Magistrate is a Publique Minister and his Commission does not reach to Particular Consciences C. And on the Other side You are a Private Person and there is as little Reason for your Opinion to Operate upon a Publique Law So that if I mistake you not we are upon accord thus far That every Particular is to look to One and the King to the Whole Now if you would deal as Candidly with me about the Ecclesiastical Power as you have done in the Civil we might make short work of This Question I hope you will not deny that the Church is as well Authorized to TEACH and INSTRUCT in all the External Acts of Worship as the Magistrate is to COMPEL to Those External Acts. N. C. There is no Doubt The Church as the Church has a Ministerial Power Ex Officio to Define Controversies according to the Word of God And that A Synâ—…d Lawfully Conven'd is a Limited Ministerial and Bounded Visible Iudge and to be believed in so far as they fellow Christ the Peremptory and Supreme Iudge speaking in his own Word C. This will not do our Business yet for to say that a Synod is to be believed in SO FAR as it follows Christ seems to make Those the Iudges of That Act that are to be Concluded by it and leaves the Credit of the Authority dependent upon the Conscience Fancy or Humour of the Believer For 't is but any Man's saying that the Synod does not follow Christ and that he trusts in it so far as it does follow Him And this is enough to keep the Controversie afoot without any hope of Decision N. C. We are indeed to believe Truths determined by Synods to be Infallible and never again liable to Retraction or Discussion Not because so says the Synod but because so says the Lord. C. Still you are short for 't is not in Our Power to disâ—…elieve what we acknowledge to be a Truth But That which is Truth at the Fountain may be Corrupted in the Passage Or at least appear so to Me and What then N. C. It must be look't upon as an Errour of the Conscience which is no Discharge at all of your Obedience From which Errour you are to be reclaimed either by Instruction or Censure For the People are obliged to Obey Those that are OVER THEM IN THE LORD who Watch for their Souls as those who must give an Accompt And not oblig'd to stand to and obey the Ministerial and Official Iudgment of THE PEOPLE He that Heareth YOU MINISTERS of the GOSPEL not the PEOPLE Heareth ME And He that Despiseth YOU Despiseth ME. C. Why should not We Two shake Hands now and Join in the Act for Uniformity You cannot say that it wants any thing of the full Complement of a Binding Law Either in regard of the Civil or of the Ecclesiastical Authority Here is first the Iudgment of the Church duely conven'd touching the Meetness and Conveniency of the Rites and Forms therein Conteined You have next the Royal Sanction Approving and Authorizing Those Rites and Forms and Requiring your Exact Obedience to them Now so it is that you can neither Decline the Authority of your Iudges nor the Acknowledgment of your Duties What is it then that hinders your Obedience N. C. That which to Me is more then all the World It goes against my Conscience C. Only That Point then and we have done with This Subject We have already concluded that God is the Iudge of the World That the Church is the Iudge of what properly concerns Religion That the Civil Magistrate is Iudge of what belongs to Publique Order and Peace and That every Man's Conscience is the Iudge of what concerns his own Soul The Remaining Difficulty is This How I am to behave my self in a Case where the Law bids me do One Thing and my Conscience Another To take a True Estimate of This Matter We are first to Ballance the Two Interests that meet in Competition The One for the Law and the Other against it There is in Favour and for the EXECUTION of the Law meaning That of Uniformity 1. The Personal Conscience and 2. The Political Conscience of the King There is moreover for the EQUITY of it the Solemn and Deliberate Iudgment of the Church which is effectually the Publique Conscience and lastly for the OBSERVANCE of it There is the Duty of the Subject which if it be withdrawn does not only Invalidate This Particular Act but it loosens the Sinews of Sovereign Authority and which is more it destroys even a Divine Ordinance For take away Obedience and Government lapses into Confusion Now for the Counterpoise AGAINST This Law and Thus Supported appears your Naked Conscience Nay That 's the Fairest on 't It may be worse and in Truth any thing that 's Ill under That Name N. C. But what 's the World to Me in the Scale against my Soul C. You have great Reason sure and 't is no more then every Man may challenge That is to Stand or Fall to his own Conscience Is that your Principle N. C. Yes out of Doubt 't is Mine and Yours and any Man's that's Honest. C. Well Hold ye a little Your Conscience will not down with This Law and This Law will as little down with your Conscience Weigh now the Good against the Bad What if it stands What if it yields Make the Case worse then it is as Bad as Bad may be in your own Favour You cannot comply with the Law And the Law will not stoop to You. What follows upon it N. C. The Ruine of many Godly People that desire to Worship God according to his Word C. That Plea wrought little upon You from Us but let that pass What sort of Ruine do you mean Ruine of Liberty or Estate For this Law draws no Blood State your Misfortunes I beseech ye N. C. No Man must Hold a Benefice or Teach a School but upon Terms of such Subscription or Acknowledgment as many an honest Man would rather Die then Consent to So that We are Distrest not only for Our Selves as being deprived of the Comfort of all Spiritual and Heavenly Freedoms But Our poor Infants are exposed to be Undone wanting the Means