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A69753	The generall demands, of the reverend doctors of divinitie, and ministers of the Gospell in Aberdene, concerning the late covenant, in Scotland together, with the answeres, replyes, and duplyes that followed thereupon, in the year, 1638 : reprinted in one book, by order of Parliament.	Forbes, John, 1593-1648.; Henderson, Alexander, 1583?-1646.	1663 (1663)	Wing C4226; Wing C4225; ESTC R6298	125,063	170

practise of indifferent things but knowing these things in themselves to be approvable we did swear obedience to the publick Laws requyring our practise in these thinges so long as the Law standeth in vigour and our obedience thereto is required by our lawfull Superioures 4. This course we hold to be more agreable to our duety then upon private conceptions of scandalls unnecessarily taken to break off our due obedience to that Authority which GOD hath set over us 6. Out of our assertion Reply 4. concerning the administration of the Sacraments in private places to sick persons in case of necessity ye doe collect that we cannot forbear the practise of these although our ordinary and other lawfull superiours should will us to doe so And hence ye infer that herein Pearth Assembly for which we stand is wronged by us two wayes 1. That we differ in judgement from them about the indifferency of the five Articles and next that at the will of our ordinary and ye know not what other lawfull superioures we are ready to forbear the practise of these things which the Assembly hath appointed to be observed 7. As for your maine Question Whether a duety necessary by divyne Law may be or may not be omitted in case our ordinary other lawfull superioures should will us to omit it before we answer to it we must expound what we mean by our other lawfull superiours because of your jesting pretence of ignorance hereof We mean hereby the Kings Majesty the Parliament the secret Counsell and other Magistrates and ecclesiasticall Assemblies whereunto we owe obedience in our practise required by them according to publick Lawes 8. The Question it self ye doe express more clearly in your Answer to our 4. Reply wher ye alleadge that we find some of the Pearth Articles so necessary that although the generall Assembly of the Church should discharge them yet we behoved still for conscience of the commandement of GOD to practise them Thus are we brought to this generall Question Whether or no any thing necessary or commanded by divine Law may in any case without sin be omitted when publick humane Authority dischargeth the practise therof For resolving of this question we desire the Reader to take notice of these Theological Maximes received in the schools grounded upon holy Scriptur 9. Affirmative preceptes doe binde at all times but not to all times but only as place and time require that is when opportunity occurreth Praecepta affirmativa obligant semper sed non ad semper nisi pro loco tempore id est quando opportunitas occurrit But negative Precepts doe binde at all times and to all times Praecepta negativa obligant semper ad semper As for example A man is not obliedged to speak the trueth at all times for he may be some time lawfully silent but he may never lawfully lie 10 Of Affirmative necessary dueties some are the weightier matters of the Law 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as Judgement Mercy and Faith Matth. 23. 23. Others lesse weighty such as are those of the Pearth Articles which we call necessary and ye doe reject 11. The exercise of some affirmative necessary dueties may be some times omitted by Authority without sin for the publick peace or some pressing necessity Thus Moses permitted repudiation of a mans married wife not fallen into adultery neither did he urge strictly the affirmative duety of adherence and that for the hardnesse of their heart Wherein Moses had respect to the peace and unity of the Tribs of Israell as Alexander Alensis observeth in his Summe of Theologie Part. 3. Qu. 46. Membro 1. Art 1. Art 2. David did not execute in his own time judgment against Ioab for his murthering of Abner and Amasa because the sonnes of Zeruiah were too hard for him Circumcision was omitted because of the uncertainty of their abode in one place when the people were with Moses in the Wildernesse 12. Exercise of ecclesiasticall Discipline against open obstinate offenders is an affirmative duety incumbent by divyne Law upon the Pastors towards those who are committed to their charge Yet it may and ought to be forborn when it can not be used without an open rupture and unavoidable Schism Because in such a case the publick peace is rather to be looked to lest in our inconsiderate zeal to seperate the Tares we pluck up also the Wheat And what we can not get corrected by censure we can doe no more but mourn for it and patiently wait till GOD amend it as Augustin proveth at length Lib. 3. contra Epistolam Parmeniani Cap. 1. Cap. 2. Lib. de fide operibus Cap. 5. For in this time sayeth Gregory the holy Church doeth correct something by fervour something she tolerateth by mecknes some things by consideration she dissembleth beareth so that often by bearing dissembling she compesceth or putteth away that evill which she hateth And Prosp. saith for this cause therfor they most with gentle piety be borne with who for their infirmity may not be rebuked 13. When a doctrinall error not being fundamentall prevaileth by publick authority in any Church a private Pastor or Doctor espying it may lawfully and laudably sorbear publick striving against it when he evidently perceiveth that unavoydable Schism would follow thereupon In such a case he should content himself to seed his hearers with that wholesome Milk of the Word which they may receive and delay the giving of stronger Food unto them because of their infirmity Considering that more necessary and weightier duetie which he oweth for preservation of order and peace and labouring in a milde and peaceable manner to cure them To this purpose belongeth that saying of Gregorie Nazianzen Let no man therefore be more wise then is convenient neither more legall then the Law neither more bright then the Light neither more straight then the Rule neither higher then the Commandement But how shall this be If we take knowledge of decencie and commende the lawe of nature and follow reason and despise not good order 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And that of the ancient Church of Lions in France near eight hundreth years agoe Who doeth not calmlie and peaceablie moderate that which he thinketh but is readie incontinent to contentions dissentions and scandalls although he have not an hereticall sense most certainlie he hath an hereticall minde 14. Divine Institution by the Ministery of the Apostles craveth Deacons ordained by imposition of hands for all their life time Acts 6. Yet in our reformed Church of Scotland we have no such Deacons Which oecomenicall defect necessitated by detention of Church mantenance necessary for their sustentation we hope shall not be imputed to our Church as sin so long as she despiseth not that Institution and acknowledgeth and lamenteth this deficiencie and endeavoureth by peaceable lawfull means to have it ●emedied 15. Although some affirmative Dueties necessary by divine precept doe

give place sometimes to other more weighty and more pressing dueties as the saving of a stranger may be omitted for saving my father or my brother or my son out of the same danger when I am able onely to save one of them And many such like examples doe occurre yet it is never lawfull to condemn or oppugn such Dueties as evill or superstitious or scandalous in themselves neither to rank them amongst things in themselves indifferent 16. Hence we doe inferre that notwithstanding of the necessity of those of the Pearth Articles which we call necessary yet sometims the practising of them may become not necessary and the omission thereof not sinfull publick authority necessity of the peace of the church so requiring Some time indeed the omission of a thing prescrived by an affirmative Divine or Humane Law may befaultlesse But it is never lawfull for Subjects to transgresse the negative part of the divine Precept by resisting with force of Arms that power whereunto GOD hath subjected them and to which he hath forbidden them to make such resistance Neither is it at any time lawfull for Pastors and Teachers to teach erronious Doctrine 17. Ye doe attribute to us as a great absurdity that at the will of our ordinary and other lawfull Superiours we are ready to forbear the practise of these things which the Assembly hath appointed to be observed And this ye inferre from the necessity of administration of the Sacraments sometimes in private places according to our judgment Certainlie ye will have much adoe to make good by right Logick this your inference from such an Antecedant But to speak of the matter of the Consequent for satisfaction to the Reader we find no such absurdity in it as ye seem to proclaim For if some Dueties appointed by divyne Law give place sometimes to other weighty dueties such as is the keeping of publick peace and good order as we have already shown much more may a thing notwithstanding of any humane Law appointing it to be observed befor these respects omitted at the will direction of those superiours to whom we ow our obedience required by that humane law who have power to dispence with our practise in that part The XIV DUPLY. IF the words of the Covenant be plaine say ye concerning the meer forbearance and speak nothing of the unlawfullness no mans thoughts can make a change But we have given our reasons which justly move us to require greater plainness neither have we as yet received satisfaction concerning those reasons 2. In our 14 Reply we said that your Band of mutuall defence against all persons whatsoever may draw subjects perhaps to take Aimes against their King which God avert cōsequently from that loyaltie of obedience which they ow to their Soveraign ours except ye declare and explaine your selves better then ye have hitherto done To this ye answer that by this Reply we doe a threefold wrong one to our selves another to the subscrivers the third to the Kings Majesty But ye have not directly answered to the point proponed by us 3. The wrong which ye say we do to our selvs is in forging from the words of the Covenāt impedimēts drawing stumbling blocks in our own way to hinder our subscriptiō This your wrongous asseveratiō we justly deny protesting as we have often done that we do walk sincerly in this matter according to our light not forging to our selvs impedimēts nor drawing stumbling blocks in our own way but clearly showing the impediments and stumbling blocks which the contryvers of the Covenant have laide in our way by their very incommodious expression irreconciliable in our judgement with your exposition 4. Ye say we wrong the subscrivers in changing the state of the Question and in making a divorce betwixt Religion and the KINGS Authority which the Covenant joineth together hand in hand We doe nowise wrong the subscrivers when we propone uprightly our just scruples as we in our consciences doe conceive them whereby we are moved to with hold our hands from that Covenant whereof one is the fear of unlawfull resistance to Authority if we should hold to that Covenant howsoever ye will not suffer to hear patiently this objection because in your Covenant ye doe professe the conjunction of Religion and the KINGS Authority which profession of yours doeth not sufficiently serve for a full answer to our objection against those other words of that same Covenant whereupon our scruple did arise To clear this we wish you to answere directly to this our present Demand whether or no in case of disagreement which Godavert think ye that the Covenanters as obliedged by vertue of their Covenāt to make open resistāce by force of Arms If ye think they are obliedged to make resistance then we desire your Answer to the Reasons and testimonies broght in our 2. Duply proving the unlawfulnes of such resistāce But if ye think that they be not oblidged thē declare it plainly 5. But most of all ye say we wrong the Kings Majesty in bringing him upon the stage before his subjects in whose minds we wold as ye do 〈…〉 alleadge beget and breed suspitions of opposing the true 〈…〉 aking innovation in Religion and of dealing with the s 〈…〉 contrary to his Lawes and Proclamations and contrary to the Oath at his Coronation We answer ●e have not brought but have found his Majesty upon this unpleasant stage opposing himself openly to your Covenant with solemn protestations against all suspitions of opposing the trueth or making innovation of religiō or dealing with the subjects contrary to his lawes proclamatiōs or contrary to the oath at his co●●natiō this his Majesties declaratiō against which ye have protested we have willingly received do truely believe it 6. What the most honourable Lords of his Majesties privy Counsell have done cōcerning his Majesties last proclamation upō what motives their Hs. themselves do know his Majesties high Cōmissioner hath publickly declared in his printed Manifesto contrary to some of your asseveratiōs cōcerning the proceeding of that honorable boord 7. Ye profess here that it becōmeth you to judge charitably of his Majesties intentions altho ye disallow the Service Book and Canons as containing a reall innovation of Religion and doe affirme that the intention of the Prelats their associats the Authors and contrivers of the books is most justly suspected by you We have told you already that concerning the matters contained in those books it is not now time to disput the books themselvs being discharged by his Majesties proclamation and a royall promise made that his Majesty will neither now nor herafter press the practise of the forsaid Canōs Service book nor any thing of that nature but in such a fair legall way as shall satisfie all his Majesties loving subjects that his Majesty neither intendeth innovation in Religion or Lawes As for the intentions of his sacred

with-holde his Subscription from the Covenant because it doth not as it intendeth not to expresse ever●● duetie we owe to the Kings Majestie as if the not naming were a denying of the duetie Reply What ye have replyed in your Answere to our first Demand we have examined in our Confutation of your Answere 2. If ye consider well all the Circumstances of the making of your Covenant ye will finde that it had not been amisse at this time to have expressed more fullie the Loyaltie of your Intentions to maintaine the KINGS Person and Honour Next it is necessarie to expresse it yet more fully for our cause whom ye require to sweare subscrive your Covenant lest we doe any thing in this matter with a doubting Conscience which is a grievous sinne that is Doubting whether or no we are tyed by our Oath to maintain the KINGS Authority onelie in so farre as it is imployed in the Defence of the foresaid true Religion or at lest as it is not imployed against it For it seemeth to us unlawfull to sweare the maintenance of the KINGS Authority with this limitation precisely And if ye be of a contrary mynde we are most willing to confere with you of this point The ninth Demand VVhethere or no we can sincerely sweare to maintaine the Authority truelie and properlie Monarchicall of the King and withall sweare also disobedience to these Articles which are authorized by his standing Lawes and to maintaine the meanest of his Subjectes against him in their disobedience of his Lawes as yet standing in vigour concerning these thinges ANSWERE 1. The Answere to the first Demand is usefull here also 2. Forbearance of Practise for a time in such a case is rather Obedience then Disobedience for example Kneelling was thought convenient because all memorie of Superstition was past should it not therefore be forborne because Superstition is now revived and flagrant They who practise keep the letter of the Law but they who forbeare keep the life and reason thereof Replye Your Covenant requireth more of us then the forbearance of the practise of Pearth Articles as we have often times declared 2. We have also showne that the forbearance of Obedience to standing Lawes without licience of Superiours and contrarie to their commandement especially if it be done by deliberation and if men tye themselves by an Oath to do so is manifest Disobedience 3. The Article of Pearth anent Kneeling was not grounded onelie nor yet principally upon that Narrative which ye mention but rather upon the conveniencie and decencie of the gesture of Kneeling in the receiving of the holie SACRAMENT which reason doeth yet continue as also the other reason which ye mention holdeth yet for the bodie of the People of this Church were never Papists and consequently have no memorie of Popish Superstition as those who lived in time of Reformation 4. We can not see nor conceive how a Vow and Band of maintaining the meanest Subject of this Kingdom against all persons whatsoever and consequently against the KING himself as we have showne in our second Replye in disobedience of his Lawes can consist with that love reverence and subjection which we owe to our KING Neither have ye brought any thing in your Answere to satisfie us in this point And because ye alleadge as we heare that ye are mistaken in this point and doe vindicate your selves by those words of the Covenant wherein ye promise to maintain the KINGS Authority we pray you to expresse your minde more fully concerning it and to showe us 1. What ye meane by mantaining the KINGS Authority in that part of your Covenant wherein ye expresse your loyall Intention To maintain the KINGS Person and Authority and in speciall Whether or no the maintaining of the KINGS Authoritie be taken by you as it excludeth all resisting of his Authority by force of Armes even although he should command thinges unlawfull and contrarie to the Trueth For so we thinke it should be taken and that it should be so taken we are ready to demonstrate Neither can we sweare it in anie other sense 2. Whether your promise of mutuall defence In the same cause of maintayning the true Religion and his Majesties Authority c. ought to be understood of the maintaining the Kings Authority absolu●elie that is Whether he maintaine the true Religion or no Or on the contrarie if it ought to be understood of the maintaining the Kings Authority conditionally in so farre as he maintaineth the true Religion and not any other wayes If you say that it is to be understoode the first way we assent to that part of your Covenant and have no more scruple anent it except that one which we mentioned in our Reply to your second Answere to wit that the words of your Protestation seeme to import more and that your Paction or Covenant is made without the Kings privitie and consent If ye say that it is to be understood the second way then we continue urging our foresaid Demand to wit how a man can maintaine the Kings Authority and withall maintaine the meanest of His Subjects in resisting His Authority And how we can be said to stand for the Kings Honour when we vowe and promise to doe that which hee himselfe professeth to be against his Honour and which in the common judgement of men is thought to be so The determination of this point is more then necessary at this tyme and therefore let us in sinceritie and Brotherly love conferre of it that the Consciences of others who doubt of this may receive satisfaction The Tenth Demand Whether or no we ought to sweare to such a Covenant which taketh away from us all hope of a free Assemblie or Parliament to judge of the matteres presently debated for how can these vote freely of any matter propounded to the decision and deliberation of the Church and Estate who have already sworne to adheere to one part of the Question and how can those who dissent from them submit themselves to their judgement chiefly seeing they are Possessoures and have Lawes Civill and Ecclesiastick standing as yet for them ANSWERE We perceive that this tenth Demand is made of the Articles of Pearth therefore we answere as before That we promise onely forbearance which can prejudge no mans liberty in a Generall Assembly Replye We have showne that your Covenant and Oath importeth a manifest Abjuration of the Articles of Pearth and therefore the swearing of it doeth manifestly prejudge the liberty of Voting in a Nationall Assembly For how can they freely either reason in an Assembly concerning Episcopacy and the Articles of Pearth or else give their judgement without prejudice concerning them who have already promised sworne and vowed first To adheere to the Discipline of the Kirke that is according to your Interpretation to the whole externall policie of the Church as it was 1581. 2. To labour by all meanes lawfull to remove and expell all those Rites and

defence thereof and every one of us of another in that cause of maintaining Religion and the KINGS foresaid Authority and to appoynt and hold meetings to that end like as our Proceedings have beene in themselves most necessary and orderly means agreable to the lawes and practise of this Kirke and Kingdom to be comended as reall duties of faithfull Christians loyall subjects and sensible members of the body of the Kirke and Kingdome and tende to no other end but to the preservation of Religion and maintainance of the KINGS Authority To your interrogatoures which ye seeme to propone rather to be snares to us then for satisfaction to your selves we answere once for all in generall that if this were the opportunitie of that disputation we shall be found to deny nothing unto Authority of that which the word of GOD the law of Nature and Nations the Acts of Parliament these Royalists sound Divines and loyall Subjects give unto Kings and Princes GODS Vice-Gerents on Earth and that not from respect to our selves but to the Ordinance of GOD by whom Kings reigne But seeing so oft and so instantly you presse us in this point ye force us mutually to propone to you such Questions as it may be ye will have no great delight to answere 1. We desire to understand of you whether ye allow or disallow the Service Booke and booke of Canons if ye disallow them as an innovation of Religion why have ye not either joined in supplication with the rest of the Kingdome or made a supplication of your own against them or some other way testified your Dislike Next whether it be pertinent for men of your place and Qualitie to move Questions of State touching the Power of Princes and Liberties of Subjects after His Majesties Commissioner and wise States-men have received Satisfaction of the Subjects for suppressing such motions as yours 3. Whether doe the Subscrivers more tender His Majesties honour by supposing his constancy in profession of Religion and equitable Disposition in ministration of Justice or ye who suppose he shall fall upon his Religious and Loyall Subjects with force of Armes contrary to both 4. Whether the joyning of the whole Kingdom in the Subscription of the Covenant or the entertaining of Division by your writing preaching and threatning of your People otherwise willing to joine be a more readie meane to settle the present Commotions of the Kirke and Kingdom 5. If the Prelates and their Followers labouring to introduce Popery in the Land make a Faction by themselves or as the Guisians in France did abuse His Majesties name in execution of the bloody Decrees of Trent which GOD forbid we aske Whether in such a Case the lawfull defence of the body of the Kingdom against such a Faction be a resisting of the Magistrate and a taking Armes against the KING If ye affirme it to be is not this to take part with a Faction seeking their own ends against the common-wealth of the Kirke and Kingdom and honour of the KING If ye say not Why then sinde ye fault with our Protestation of defending the Religion Liberties and Lawes of the Kingdom of the Kings Authority in defence thereof and every one of us of another and in that cause as if it were an unlawfull Combination against Authority 6. Whether doe ye think Christian Magistrats to be of so absolute unbounded power notwithstanding of any promise or paction made with the Subjects at their Coronation or of any Law made for establishing their Religion and Liberties that there is nothing left but suffering of Mar●yrdome in the case of publick Invasion of their Religion and Liberties If ye thinke that any defence is lawfull why misconstrue yee the Subscrivers of the Covenant If not how can ye be free of Flattery and of stirring up Princes against their loyall Subjects for such ends as your selves know best We verily believe that ye shall report small thanks either of so good and just a KING or of so duetifull Subjects for entering within these Lists It is enough that such Questions be agitated in the Schooles and that with as great prudency and as circumspectly as may be To the Tenth FIrst ye take us in our fourth Replye to be the penners of the Covenant and yet will rather wrest the words of it to your owne meaning then receive the Interpretation thereof from us for wee prejudge not your liberty of conception of that short Confession but permit it to your selves whatsoever may be the private meaning of some who have sub●crived yet there is nothing in the late Interpretation that c●ndemneth the Articles of Pearth and Episcopacy as Popish Novations Ye may voice and reason in an Assemblie as freely concerning them and give your judgement of them without prejudice notwithstanding of your Oath according to your own grounds as you would have done at the Assembly of Pearth 2. We hop● ye be not so ignorant of the estate of the Kirke neither will we judge so uncharitably as to thinke you so corrupt that in your opinion there is nothing hath entred in the Kirke since that time designed by you beside Episcopacy and the Articles of Pearth which can be thought prejudiciall to the Liberty and Purity of the Gospell To the Eleventh FIrst ye finde fault with us that we have not upon this occasion given you that testimony which we owe to you of your sincerity in professing the trueth and therefore to supplie our defects have taken an ample Testimony to your selves of paines in disputing in wrytting and preaching against Popery in processing of Papists and in doing all thinges which can be expected from the most zealous of frequent prayer to GOD of humbling your selves before him of your holinesse of Life and Conversation c. which have made us who were desirous to heare that Testimony rather at the mouths of others that we might be no more challenged as deficient in that kinde but give unto you your deserved praise to inquire in matters whereupon if we would believe the report of others wee heare that for all your pains Papists and Persons Popishly affected are multiplied and Papistry increased in your towne more then in any other town of the Kingdom no lesse under your Ministrie then any time before since the Reformation that there be in private houses Messes Crucisixes and other monuments of Idolatry that ye have not many converts from Popery that Jesuits and Priests are countenanced there that your People at home and your Magistrats abroad complain that ye are but too sparing of your pains in preaching and often fill your places with Novices but this we are sparing to believe and wish that the not imploying of your Tongues and Pennes in the defence of the Service Booke and Canons which are so pestred with Popery if the seeds of Romish Heresie Superstition Idolatry and Papall tiranny come under that censure and your willingnesse to joyne with the Kirke and Kingdom

now we think them to be so necessary that although the generall Assembly of the Church should discharge them we behoved still to practise them We answere first that the Assembly of Pearth hath determined nothing of the indifferencie or necessity of these things Secondly If any who allowed these Articles did at that time in their discourses and speaches call them indifferent they meaned only that in the celebration of these Sacraments the circumstances of place and time are things indifferent of their own nature or which is all one that we are not so tyed to the administration of them in the Church and at tymes appointed for Sermon but we may celebrate them in private houses and at other times But judicious and learned men even then thought the denying of these Sacraments to persons who can not come or be brought to the Church to be a restraining of the means of grace altogether unwarrandable by GODS word Whence ye may collect whether or not they thought it to be unlawfull Thirdly Ye have no warrand from our Reply to say that we would not abstaine from private Baptisme and Communion although our nationall Assembly should discharge them For as we are very unwilling to omit any necessary duety of our Calling so we cary a singular respect to lawfull Authority and to the Peace and Unity of the Church abhorring Schisme as the very Pest of the Church But of this we shall speak hereafter in the thirteenth Duply 53 Next ye say if we have the same judgement of kneeling in the receiving of the Communion and of Feastivall dayes it commeth to passe among us which hath been incident to the Church in former ages that things have been first brought in as indifferent then urged as necessary Certainly Brethren none are so guilty of this as your selves and your associates for ye have now made some things to be esteemed necessary by your followers which have been accounted indifferent not only since the Reformation but these fifteene hundreth years bygone And in some other things which the ancient Church did wisely forbid ye doe now make the Liberty of the Gospel to consist As for us we stand as we stood before and doe yet think kneeling in the receiving of the Sacrament and the five Festivall dayes to be Rites indifferent in their own nature but indeed very profitable and edificative if Pastors would doe their duety in making their people sensible of the lawfulness expediency of them 54. We are of the same judgement concerning Confirmation which Calvin writting upon Hebr. 6. 2. acknowledgeth To have been undoubtedly delivered to the Church by the Apostles and with the same Author in the fourth book of his Institut Cap. 19 § 14. we wish that the use of it were again restored so far are we from that partiall dealing with the Articles of Pearth which ye object unto us What hath moved our most reverend Prelats to abstain hither●o from the practising of it we know not they can themselves best satisfie you in this point And we modestly judge that this omission hath proceeded from weighty and regardable causes It was sufficient for us to have a care of our own dueties in our particular stations But the urging and pressing of that practise upon the Bishops requireth higher Authority then ours In the mean time ye know the Bishops never disclaimed the Authority of the act of Pearth concerning Confirmation or of any other of these Acts as ye have done who have been hitherto professed and avowed disobeyers of them all Wherefore we wish you hereafter not to bring this omission of the Bishops in the matter of Confirmation as an Argument for that forbearance of Pearth Articles which ye require of us for there is a great difference betwixt the omission of a duety commanded by a Law and an avowed or professed yea sworne disobedience of the Law 55. Last of all whereas ye say that we by mantaining the necessity of private Baptisme and Communion doe condemne the practise of this our Church from the Reformation till Pearth Assembly and put no small guiltinesse upon other reformed Churches who use not private Baptism and Communion at all but abstain from them as dangerous we answere that we have in all modesty proponed our own judgement concerning private Baptism and private Cōmunion nominem judica●tes as Cyprian said of old in consilio Carthag in praefat nor taking upon us to censure or condemne the practise either of this Church in times preceeding Pearth Assembly or of other reformed Churches We can not indeed deny but we dissent from them and if this be a condemning of them we may no lesse justly say to you that you condemne the practise and doctrine not onely of our Reformers in the particulars mentioned before in this same Duply but also of diverse reformed Churches and of the ancient Church as we declared in our sixt Demand and shall again speak of it in our sixt Duply A Defence of our Doctrine and Practise concerning the Celebration of Baptism and the LORDS Supper in private places 56. Ye desire us wisely to consider whether the desire which our people have of Baptism and Communion in time of sicknesse be not occasioned by prevailing of Popery and through a superstitious conceit that people have of these Sacraments as necessary to Salvatiō We are loath to come short of you in dueties of charity especially in good wishes and therefore we likewise wish you wisely to consider whether the neglect of these Sacraments in the time of sicknesse which is in many parts of the Kingdom proceed not from some want of a sufficient knowledge and due esteem of the fruits of these high and Heavenly Mysteries 57. It is well that ye acknowledge that we minister these Sacraments in private as necessary onely by the necessity of the Cōmandement of GOD but withall ye conceive that our people imagine or seem to imagine them to be so necessary means as that God hath tyed his grace to them We desire you to judge charitably of those who are unknown to you and withall we declare that neither we doe teach our People nor doe they think for ought we did ever know that Baptism is so necessary a mean unto Salvation that without it GOD can not or will not saye any yea on the contrary we are confident that when Baptism is earnestly sought for or unfeignedly desired and yet can not be had the Prayers of the Parents and of the Church are accepted by GOD in stead of the ordinary mean the use whereof is hindred by unavoidable necessity and so in this we depart from the rigid tenet of Papists On the other part we likewise teach and accordingly our People learn that Baptism is the ordinary mean of our enterance into the Church and of our Regeneration to the use whereof GOD by his Commandement hath tyed us 58. If the commandement of our Saviour Matth. 28. 19. Goe ye therefore and teach all

repugnant to our reformed Religion or forbidden by our publick Lawes for these Articles are not of this sort Those of them which we call necessary the Assembly of Pearth did not conclude as indifferent as ye alleadge neither can any such thing be inferred from the words of the Acts of that Assembly Therefore we have no reason to change this opinion as ye would have us to doe We hold all the five points to be lawfull and laudable and some of them more then indifferent which also the words of the Synod it self doe imply so that without just reason it hath pleased you to say that things formerly indifferent are become necessary and what was but lawfull before and had much adoe to gain that Reputation is now become laudable Thus again we do plainly declare unto you that the cause of our unwillingnesse to subscrive or promise forbearance is both the commandement of Authority and also the necessity and excellency of some of the things commanded besides that we think them all lawfull and laudable What we would doe at the commandement of Authority in the forbearance of the practise of those things for the peace of the Church and Kingdom shall be declared in our Duply to your thirteenth Answere wherein ye urge this point again The VIII DUPLY. VVHereas ye doe remit the Reader to your former Answere and our Reply we also remit him thereto and to our first Duply hoping that he shall rest satisfied therewith 2. We have in those places answered your Argument concerning your swearing the defence of the KING and his Authority with a specification as ye call it and have shown that what hath not been looked to so narrowly in this matter heretofore is requisite now for the reasons expressed in our eight Reply and first Duply Concerning the full expression of the loyalty of your intentions to mantain the KINGS Person and honour whether or not ye have given just satisfaction to those who are nearest to the KINGS Majesty as ye say we referre you and the Readers to that which ye and they will find near the end of our first Duply We wonder greatly ye should affirme that we by craving resolution doe wrong the KING and our selves or that ye by giving of it should wrong them who are nearest his Majestie and also the Covenant and the subscrivers thereof For our requiring of resolution in this matter of so great importance is a pregnant Argument of our loyalty towards our dread Soveraigne and of our care to have alwise our own consciences voide of offence towards GOD and towards Men. And your giving of satisfaction unto us would have served for farther clearing of your Covenant and the subscriptions thereof Your pretence that by giving us satisfaction ye should wrong them who are nearest his Majesty is grounded upon a wrong supposition as if they had already received satisfaction by your Declaration 3. GOD is witnesse we doe not wittingly and willingly multiply doubts for hindring a good worke or to oppose against a shining light as ye would have the Reader to thinke of us but in all humility and uprightnesse of heart doe declare our minde and doe intimate our unaffected scruples And we thinke it very pertinent at this time to crave resolution of them and to desire your answere concerning this maine duety which is not fully expressed in your Covenant wheras a more full expression of it had been very needfull at this time 4. Lastly Whereas ye complaine that we took not sufficient notice of you while ye were amongst us ye may easily consider that our publick charges and imployments together with the shortnesse of the time of your abode here doe sufficiently vindicate us from any imputation of neglect in that kinde and our doores were not closed if it had pleased you in Brotherly kindenesse to have visited us which we ought rather to have expected of you seeing ye came undesired to the place of our Stations to deal with us and also to deal with our people against our will before we had received satisfaction The IX DUPLY. AS ye doe referre the Reader to your former Answers so doe we referre him to our former Replyes and Duplyes 2. The meaning of the Act of the Assembly of Pearth citing the wordes of the Psalm 95. is not as ye doe interpret it any perverting of the Text neither tendeth it to inferr thereupon absolute necessity of kneeling in all worshipping of GOD or in this part of his Worship in the celebration of the holy Communion but only to inserr the lawfullnesse and commendable decency of kneeling in divyne worship and that it is such a gesture as our lawfull superiours may enjoine to be used in GODS worship and that religious adoration and kneeling is to be done to GOD only although they sin not who use another gesture where this is not required by Authority but another appointed or permitted 3. We doe not kneel before the Sacramentall Elements making them the object of our Adoration either mediate or immediate neither doeth the Act of Pearth Assembly import any such thing But all our Adoration both outward and inward is immediately directed to GOD only with Prayer and thanksgiving at the receiving of so great a benefite Wherefore your objecting of Idolatry against us here and in your other Treatises is most unjust We marvell also how ye doe here refer us to those Treatises which in your twelfth Answer ye seem to disclaime finding fault that any of us should lay hold on them or build any thing upon them As likewise ye here alleadge that the Assembly of Pearth made Kneeling necessary in all points of GODS Worship and consequently in receiving the holy Eucharist not remembering that in your seventh Answere ye said the Assembly had concluded the five Articles as indifferent 4. Concerning the Service-Book which now is not urged we have already answered Neither find we any reason of your uncharitable construction of us or of the disposition of the people as if they were now become superstitious Nor doeth this time give any just cause of such feares as are sufficient to overthrow the reasons of that Act of Pearth Assembly 5. We did not in malice but in love say that such a defence as ye professe here according to your Protestation and such meetings and conventions doe require the KINGS consent and Authority to make them lawfull according to our judgement whereof some reasons we have expressed before in our second Reply which as yet ye have not satisfied 6. It seemeth that ye are either not able or not willing to answere particullarly and plainly to our interrogatories proponed in our ninth Reply and we would understand some reason why ye doe so in such a free and brotherly conference seeing although ye doe otherwise interpret our meaning yet truely we did not propone them to be snares to you but to obtain satisfaction to our selves and others for a peaceable end As for your Questions which