Selected quad for the lemma: duty_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
duty_n	apostle_n	church_n	holy_a	989	5	4.8664	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A00637	A counter-poyson modestly written for the time, to make aunswere to the obiections and reproches, wherewith the aunswerer to the Abstract, would disgrace the holy discipline of Christ.	Fenner, Dudley, 1558?-1587, attributed name.; Stoughton, William, fl. 1584, attributed name.; Jacob, Henry, 1563-1624, attributed name.	1584 (1584)	STC 10770; ESTC S101936	77,534	204

discretion and Wisdome when the Pastors seate sanctified with God and ordained with so many pretious promises shoulde bee subiect to more follye and headinesse then the chayre of the Byshoppe this inconuenience is as likelye to fall into the Byshoppe as the Minister Further whether is more likely that the Byshop hauing by reason of his countenaunce and Ciuill authoritye bothe more heart-burning betweene the Noble Counsailers and himselfe and being in lesse feare as thinking him selfe better able to shoulder amongest them would be more bold in his conceit then a poore Minister as hee calleth him who neuer woulde for feare but vpon moste necessary and sufficient cause vrged in conscience aduenture suche thing neither if hee woulde could many graue Elders without whom he coulde do nothing bee drawne vnto it especially considering that their feare woulde preuayle where greate Conscience of theire duetie shoulde not ouercome it And maye not this man when his opinion as a Canker shall frette so farre turne all this agaynst the euery of publique rebuking as-well as agaynste the Mynisters execution of Disciplyne for maye he not also demaunde whether the Byshoppe shall retayne his authoritye to preache in his Diocesse and if hee bee in that Parishe who shall haue the preeminence If hee suspende the Minister from preachinge whether hee bee not at the same poynte hee was before And what if the Minister vppon some discretion woulde rebuke openlye some Peere of the Realme vpon bare conceyte or some surmise shall then the duetye of the Minister in Preaching for suche vnitye of the Churche cease and bee counted inconuenient If hee saye no this is the commaundemente of GOD and necessarye for Christian institution so wee saye this is the commaundemente of JESUS CHRISTE and necessarye for holye correction In the nexte place hee asketh to whome the Pastour shall tell it when hee doth admonishe him him-selfe I aunswere for the Pastour easely to the whole Eldership as our sauiour willeth But this question in deed cleane dasheth the sole authority of the Bishop out of countenaunce For to whom shall he tell not to the Congregation of Elders as our Sauiour commandeth but to the Church which standeth of him-selfe only as he desireth not ascending by the stayres of Christ from one to two from two to manye Godly Presidents as Chrisostome speaketh but by the stayres of Rome to descend from two to one and to take the matter wherin he is a party into his own hands and proceed in censure Ecclesiasticall as liketh him-selfe best In the next to blear mens eyes with all he graunteth they may rebuke in publike doctrine bynde and loose by preaching which is a great part of Discipline as though any man were so blynd as when the booke maketh three partes of the Ministers Office ministring of doctrine ministering of the Sacraments and ministring of Discipline as not to see what violence he doth Nay what folly he imputeth to the booke as though they shoulde make three of two For if Discipline be nothing but the open rebuking in preaching and binding and loosing by the same that beeing a parte of ministring the Doctrine by preaching is manifestly contained vnder it and so not onelye maketh one two but carrieth one halfe from one end of the sentence to another placing a thirde betweene and for an vmpier belike leaste they shoulde fall out or else being ioyned orderly togeather should to much annoy him But his reasons which the Jesuites haue shaken against the trueth hefore him do follow Unto which I aunswere that it followeth not that if the Apostle mighte by sole authority excommunicate therefore the Byshop may for an Apostle is of far greater authority then a Byshop is Secondly it is false that the Apostle did onely command vnto them to pronounce the sentence as the Byshop doth the minister giuing them no further authority For although as an Apostle whose duety was to deliuer ordiaunces which the Churches were to obserue and keep hee did iustlye decree as the voyce of Christe and so commaunde them what they should do yet he doth not excommunicate or take it vnto him-selfe but willeth that by the authority of Christ they should caste out not pronounce his sentence of eiection they shold Seperate frō amongst them such that they Should iudge those within that is vnder their authority not that they shoulde only pronounce his sentence of seperation and iudgement which is also most manyfest by his other allegation out of the second to the Corinthes where hesheweth that hee alone would not forgiue but whomsoeuer they forgaue he would forgiue he calleth it the rebuke or censure of many not of him-selfe He sheweth now they ought freely to forgiue he did exhort them to ratifie and by authority confirme their loue towards him Let him therfore take this necessary collectiō cleane against him y ● if y ● Apostle wold not nor durst not take vnto himself the sole anthority of excommunication absolution but left it vnto the church How shal any one bishop presume to shut out y ● Ministers and elders carry it wholy vnto himself His next reason is of as great force The Apostle saith he did deliuer vnto sathan mentioneth neither their Ministry nor segniory therfore he did alone Upon which example I reason thus Paule saith that Timothy receiued grace by the laying on of his hands making no mention of y ● elders therfore it is false that he saith in the 1. Tim. 4. that he receiued it by the laying on of the hands of the Eldership James Act. 15. saith I determine or iudge Therefore it is false which is after set down y ● this was the decree of the Apostles Elders with the consent of the Churches But what neede I stande to aunswere this argument which was by a reuerent seruaunt of God aunsweared openly at Paules crosse that although the action be giuen to one who moderated yet neither Peter nor James nor anye Apostle aboue Apostles nor Bishop aboue Ministers had any authoritye ouer others and that as the Senatours were equall in authoritye notwithstanding he moderated so is it amongest the Apostles and Bishops And thus much for his reasons Ours follow that it belongeth to the Pastor the Eldership to excommunicate by the consent of the people If our Sauiour Christ Math. 18. when hee sayth tell the Churche meane not one Bishop because one can not be a number nor one alone a Church and he goeth vpwarde from one to 2. from two to moe not contrarywise from twoo to one neither can it be meant of manye Churches for then it muste bee all the whole Church in the phrase of the scripture and it were a confusion and vnpossibility for many Churches or the whol people to heare all such Ecclesiasticall causes but do meane vpon these reasons a particular Congregation then our assertion is most true and certaine The first we haue proued therfore the second is

of the knowledg to read of an audible voice and the other from the especiall gyftes of interpretatiō of doctrine exhortation giuen by the holy ghost as peculierly for the Church-ministerye Rom. 12. 1. Cor. 12. Ephes 4. And if he had not forgotten the ancient question after y e reading of Demostenes oration O what if you had heard him selfe speake it He would not haue maruayled y ● God hath attributed the first fruits or rather first spring of our fayth to y e liuely preaching of the Worde James 1. which in that respect is compared to sowing Mat. 13 to begetting James 1. to grafting 1. Cor. 3. This trueth that all Ministers ought to be apt to teach as it is moste manifest and cleare by the Scriptures so it hath witnesse from the Church euen when it was fallen almost to decay but specially when-soeuer any worthye seruice of God florished as may appeare by their decrees canons sentences following few only of many being sparingly takē for breuities sake Concil Carthag 4. in y e rules of examining a Bish according to the 1. Tim. 3. amongst the other proprieties there mentioned it is required to be sought If he be learned if he be instructed in the law of God If he be Cautus sensibus scripturae warie in the sence of the scriptures si in dogmatibus exercitatus it he be exercised in doctrines opinions or sentences meaning of all sortes that he may be able to put difference And in the Canons of Pope Celestine the 1. Can. reproouing a superstition in Ministers in squaring their outwarde attire to the phrase of certaine places of Scripture We haue learned sayth he that some Priestes or Ministers of God do serue or giue them-selues to a superstitious kinde of seruice rather then to the puritye of the minde and faith who beeing cloked hauing their loynes girt beleeue that they shall embrace the faith of holy Scripture not by the spirit but by the letter And hauing shewed that we must not do the thinges but that which is ment by such speaches he saith further We are to be discerned from the people or others by doctrin not by garments Now when they haue no more soundnes in faith and abilitiy to admonishe then is requyred in Christians how are they discerned from the common people and others by doctrine Concil Toletan 4. Ignorance the mother of all errours is especially to be auoyded in Priestes or Ministers who haue taken on them the dutey of teaching among the people of God For Paul doth commaund Priestes or Ministers to read the Scriptures often saying to Timothy attend to reading exhortation let Priests or Ministers therefore know the holy scriptures and let them meditate the Canons let all their worke consist in diuine preaching and doctrine and let them edifie all as well with the knowledge of faith as with the discipline of works And Chriso 1. Tim 5. 17 For this is much for the edification of the Church and very requisite that the Elders be apt to teach for this cause with the rest with this that they should be giuen to hospitality they shoulde be moderate that they should be vnblameable he also numbreth this saying he must be didacticos apt to teach for this he is sayde to be a Teacher Which testimony declareth euidently that aptnesse to teach is no more an Idaea then all the rest specified by the Apostle So August Homilia de pastor Hauing prooued at large all the dueties of preaching to lye vppon the Pastours of the Church sheweth how by the Apostle they must not only preach but be instant in it saying For here the Apostle sayeth preach the Worde be instant in season and out of season To whom in season To whom out of season In season to those who will out of season to those who will not And thus much for an vnpreaching ministerie Ministers fallen to idolatrie from their Ministerie ought not to be receiued to their ministerie HItherto hath beene handled the principall cause of the Ministery as it were the proper glorye of the man of God that he be apt to teach Now it is meet in the next place to maynetayne also that truth which the aunswerer impugneth that Ministers fallen to idolatry ought not to be admitted vnto the ministerie of the Gospell by anye ordinary authoritie of the Church that so the glorye which God hath appoynted vnto the ministerie might be mayntayned both for sufficiencie and the authoritie which they should gaine by being voyde of all suspicion of inconstancie in that religion which he shoulde deliuer with much full perswasion of the truth to liue and die in the same and to be willing to deale their owne liues for their flocke For notwithstanding it must be true that aboue all thinges the Godly Ministers are to take diligent heede that they doe not in confidence of their strength or with a spice of free-will as Peter did boldly promise such constancie yea when we are by Christe his voyce admonished of our owne frailtie yet in all humblenesse trembling and feare resting vpon God his promise to minister strength to the weake and courage to the faint hearted they ought as the chiefe captaines of the Lordes army and conductors of his host not onely be free from probable suspicion of such foule cowardlinesse yea of execrable high Treason seeing such doe not onely flee before the enimies of God but vnto them and that betray the strong tower of God his pure and holy seruice into the hands of the diuell his sworne enemy but ought also to be examples patterns of al readines to suffer for the truth His wordes for the impugning of this manifest truth are The contrary of this Doctrine of his may bee prooued by the example of Aaron who was an Idolater or an abbettor of idolatry in the golden Calfe and yet was not from his repentance put from his priesthood Likewise by Peter whose reuolt and temporary Apostasy in denying his Master Christe was no lesse heinouse then the sinne of our idolatrouse priests who for the moste part sinned but of ignorance in that generall blindenesse Likewise Augustine afterward a famous Byshoppe was by the space of many yeares a detestable Manachy And after he alleageth many testimonies of the Concil Meldens the glo out of the Nicen and out of Leo. And Augustin that Heretickes as namely Nouatians and Donatistis returning from their Heresies may be receiued And out of Viret that From Popery men maye be receiued to the Gospell Peter Viret in dialog la discipline eccles des eglises reformes du royaulme de Fraunce pag. 128. 129. Now all these allegations although they carrye some shew to him who vnderstandeth not the cause yet to him that shal but once consider of the question as it is before with out ambiguitie set downe it is manifest that his allegations touch not the questions For the examples of Aaron and Peter were without the

true 1 That which the Apostle maketh the iudgement of a particular Congregation that must needes appertaine to the Pastor and the rest of the Elders as the gouernours and to the people as consenters 2 But this the Apostle plainelye expresseth 1. Cor. 5. 12. Why iudge you not those who are within Seperate him therefore from amongst you 3 Therfore it is true which we affirm If it be the especiall dutye of the Pastor by the authority of the Eldership to deliuer the holye Sacramentes to the worthy and detayne them from the vnworthy Then vnlesse he should be compelled to gyue them to the vnworthye and with-hold them from the worthy excommunication muste belong to him with his fellow Elders But the first is manifest by these Scriptures Leuit. 10. 11. Zephan 3. 3. They haue polluted the holye thinges And 1. Cor. 11. 26. 27. Wherefore our assertion is true The consequent of the firste part is manyfest because he must deliuer them to all not suspended and excommunicated and to the rest hee must not The consent of the auncient tymes agree vnto this The counsell of Arles 2. Can. 30. authoriseth the suspencion which the Elders and Clearkes decree against the Bishop And they doe it by the authority of auncient decrees Also seeing the councels conclude both generallye that the Bishop shall not proceed in any cause of gouernment Ecclesiasticall without the Elders and that they shall not ordayne without them and that they alone can not so much as gyue leaue to any of the Cleargy to goe vnto the Widowes or Uirgins but with the consent of the Elders it followeth much more that they mighte not excommunicate without them Now the first sort are directly prooued by these Canons following Concil Carthag 4. cap. 23. That the Bishops heare no cause without the presence of his Clearkes otherwise the sentence shall be voyde vnlesse it be confirmed by the presence of the Clearkes And the 22. That the Bishop ordayne not Clearks without the counsell of his clearks so that he seeke the assent and leaue or conniuence testimonie of the citizens Canon 3. An Elder when he is ordayned the Bishop blessing him holding his hand vppon his heade let also all the Elders which are present holde their handes by the handes of the Bishop That the Clearkes or those who containe come not to the Widowes or Virgins but by the commaundement or permission of the Bishops and Elders And Can. 32. That the Elder reconcile not the penitent not hauing asked councell of the Bishop Ierom. ad demetri 1. Epist The Elders in other censures of the Church and the Church hath interest in excommunication Cyprian lib. 3. Epist 19. Speaking of excommunication of which vntill we shall haue vnderstanding what he haue done after which thing when it regardeth the Counsell and sentence of vs all I dare not preiudicate the matter and draw it only to my selfe And lib. 3. epist. 14. epist 15. epist 16. and August speaking of the elders saith because all thinges in tradition of the Lord are done by the holie Ghost therefore when a rule and forme of this Discipline is deliuered vnto them it is sayde vnto them receiue the holy ghost because it doth truly appertaine to ecclesiasticall righte whose sinnes you forgiue c. Of the Doctor or teacher that he is an ordinary and perpetuall officer in the Church of Christ distinct from the Pastor by the Worde of God COncerning which y ● words of y ● answerer are these And I hope that the authour will not heereby gather that by law nowe in force a man is vtterly simplie forbidden to haue an other preach in his cure for then all our new doctours De robe curté who iutrude themselues vppon must bee faine to giue ouer their cloakes and put vp their Pipes fol. 41. If this had bene directed against the particuler persons of some it had beene beyond the rule of charitie and modesty though he should be a Doctor who spake it thus to slaunder any with intrusion and hauing nothing to saye to their doctrine and lyues to gybe at the apparel which they weare in iourney or otherwise vpon occasion being both sober and graue yea when as commonly they vse a gowne with as much grauitie lesse flanting then the most of their Doctors consecrated according to the order of men and not of God But now that it is brought to deface as shall be proued the ordinaunce of God thus without all proofe to flout and to taunt the officers of God beseemeth neither the grauitye of a Cambridge Doctor nor the modesty of a Christian nor the ciuility of an honest man Their intrusion forsooth is this that hauing first according to the order of the Church of England authority to preach they come vpon the earnest desire of the Congregatiō with the consent of the Pastor vnlesse being no preacher and ignoraunt for enuy he can not beare him to instruct the people with wholsome doctrine out of the true interpretation of the Scriptures their Pipes which he sayth prophanely they may put vp is the Vtteraunce of knowledge a gift of the holy Ghoste which is more sweete to GOD his Children and acceptable to the Lord then al the gilded Organes and Pipes in the Realme For in the spirituall battell their Sound is vncertaine when as these as the Siluer trumpets of Gods sauctuary giue certayne warning to the people to serue the Lorde aright Thus hauing in a worde with as much patience and modesty as the Lord woulde giue me touched not the Salt but vnsauory brine of his floutes hauing no reason of his to deale withall I set downe these following first for profe out of y t scripture then for witnes out of ancient wryters 1 Whatsoeuer the Apostle setting downe the ordinary perpetual members of Christs body in euery particuler Congregation doth make an ordinarie member in the same distint●t in his proper workes and action from all the rest the same is a perpetuall ordinary Church-officer 2 But he maketh the Doctor in that reckoning a distinct member hauing a distinct action from all the rest to wit teaching distinguished there from exhortation from gouerning from distributing 3 Wherefore it is plaine that he is a Church-officer ordinary and perpetuall for his giftes and vse are ordinary and perpetuall and also distinguished from the Pastor 1 Whatsoeuer Christe hath giuen to his Church with an ordinary and perpetuall gift for the perpetual work of the ministery gathering and building vp of the Church vnto perfection that is an ordinary Church-officer 2 But so he hath giuen Pastours and Doctors Ephes 4. 11. 3 Therefore both are perpetuall and ordinary officers and by consequent distinct Unto this argument they obiect because the Apostle hauing sayde some Apostles some Prophets some Euangelistes he saith in the last place some Pastors and Teachers which because they are coupled by and they say they

shall finde this to be true of Deacons much more of Elders But if this exception were true as it is moste false who can chuse but hee must abhorre the hypocrisy of these men who can deface the ordinance of God which they want which they themselues haue not For their Commissaries and Chauncellors who suspende Excommunicate and administer the discipline of our Church vnder the Byshops what are they who calleth them the Byshop who ordaineth them or annoynteth them his Letters Patentes By whose prayers doe they looke to obtaine comfort in their calling by the byshops blessings without prayer without fasting To what office are they put apart to mingle heauen and earth together matters of God and matters of men to excommunicate take probats of testaments to admonish ecclesiastically commit penance to be Lord ouer y e ministers themselues hauing taken no degrees Thus though their calling bee neither ecclesiastical because they come to no church-election nor haue any such ordination nor ciuil because they be called by y ● bishop only as he is bishop put a part neither to administer ecclesiastical things only nor things ciuil only but to both and to some which are neither as to giue men spiritually leaue to mary and eat flesh in Lente as though they were made to goe beyonde all good estate of mankinde beyonde y ● body because they meddle with the soule beyond the soule because they meddle with that which pertaineth vnto it nay somtimes which is hurtful Wherfore althogh this were sufficient to stop his prophane mouth yet that it may appeare that the gray haires of this order are more auncient then the very hoarie head of his Chauncellors and commissaries I will prooue it to be the ordinaunce of GOD out of the Scriptures that there ought to bee an Ecclesiasticall Senate of Pastors Doctors and Elders gouerning onely to haue the administration of Church-matters and that they ought to bee administred Ecclesiastically 1 If the Apostles set downe two sorts of Elders which rule the Church wel and are worthy of double honor the one sort of them only ruling the other labouring also in the Worde and doctrine which are as hath beene proued before the Pastors and Doctors then it is plaine that these raising only must be added vnto them 2 But the first is true by the expresse wordes of the Apostle 1. Tim. 5. 17. 3 Therefore the former assertion is certaine To this place some are wont to obiect that the first sort are such as are occupied in the Word and Sacraments thogh they preach not But this will not serue both because we haue prooued that none are to be admitted to that but they ought to preach and also because those shoulde yet be occupyed in the Worde and therefore comprehended vnder the latter sort Now when they perceiue this will not serue beeing men willing to learne of anye they haue learned of the Jesuites to aunsweare That such Priests specially and Prelates are worthy of duble that is more ample honour that are able to teach and preach and do take paines therein And therefore they make that all for their office are worthy of double honour but specially those which labour diligently and painfully in the Worde But this shift is manifestly discouered by the text First because the Apostle shoulde then haue said thus they which are occupyed in Word and doctrine are worthy of double honor especially those which labour but he doth not make the ministery of word and doctrine common to both but the ministery of gouerning Secondlye the Apostle by these mens goodly deuice shoulde not proceede but should go backwarde in his comparison for he had then sayde more in the firste part when he sayd They which do it well or as he might saye with worthinesse of praise which he that doth must not onely do it with labour paines diligence but also with purity wisdome zeale power soūdnes fitnes many other things besides labour So this sense cleane ouerthroweth the Apostles increase by the worde Especially Thirdly by this meanes the Apostle muste make three sortes of Ministers of the worde such as are occupied in the Word but not well belike their ignoraunt Ministers First they which shoulde haue some honour for their office sake then some that doe it well but not with labour or diligence which must haue double honour though they labour not the last which doe it more then well which must haue more then double honour If this be not to dally with the Lordes word what is Fourthly If the difference were not in thinges wherein they are occupied but in the labour aboue others or the slouthfull labouring of others this difference should be none at all seeing the Apostle in other places giueth watchfulnesse which is more then labour for it is a continuaunce of labour with great regard not onely in preaching but otherwise for their soules health Yea he giueth this very word Copiōtes which labor to all that are ouer them in the Lord and admonish them which they must reuerence and acknowledge Lastly their distinction and interpretation is cleane destitute of conference of Scriptures which are not wont to giue double honor to any but to those which are painfull which labor in their worke but ours haue moste manifest witnes out of other places as shall appeare by the other reasons following 1 If the Apostle Rom. 12. setting downe y ● ordinary members of Christs Church which differ in their proper action doe set downe the Elder to be ouer the people with diligence and not to be occupied in the ministery of the Worde eyther by exhortation or doctrine but to admonish them and rule them then our assertions must needes be certain 2 But the first is manifest Rom. 12. 6. 7. c. 3 Therefore this hath beene ordained by the Apostles 1 If the Apostle say in the 1. cor 12. that besides the Ministers of y ● Word God hath set in his Church Gouernours then our Position is true 2 But he sayth God hath set first Apostles Thirdlye Teachers Gouernors c 3 Wherefore our Doctrine is not vncertaine but the liuely trueth of God his Worde Unto these two they doe obiecte that by these Magistrates are meant but that is plainelye confuted by these reasons oute of the Text. First because the Apostle speaketh of them as of Church-Officers and which were then the members of Christes bodye which then theire Magistrates were not Secondlye he speaketh of them as of such giftes as came then newly by preaching of the gospel to the Gentiles and such as they should then with zeale followe after Rom. 12. 6. 1. Cor. 12. 31. Which the Apostles would neyther say nor exhort them to doe concerning the Magistrates office for they neuer were so Annabaptistical as to exhorte theire churches to be zealous to become Magistrates Thirdly the Apostle doth after speake of the Magistrates

and their dutie and of the churches duetye to them Rom. 13. Lastly the Gouernours wee speake of in their gouerment are placed as farre vnder the Pastors and Teachers as they are vnder the Apostles and Prophetes which if they dare say it of y ● Magistrates they are them-selues become plaine Annabaptists and do cleane ouerthrow the most rightfull soueraigntie of Princes ouer all persons and causes as well Ciuill as Ecclesiasticall A fourth reason is seeing oure Sauiour Christ in setting downe the Ecclesiasticall Presbytery speaketh according to the Jewes for otherwise the Apostles could not haue vnderstood him when he sayde tell the congregation or Churche which was the title then giuen vnto the Ecclesiasticall Senate and his wordes of hauing as a Publican and Heathen doth manifestly prooue he ment to speak according to their custome It must needes be that hee did according to the places afore brought ordayne a Presbytery of Pastors Teachers and Elders like vnto theirs of Priestes Scribes or Teachers of the Law and their Elders which gouerned onely In y ● fift place y ● precept of S. James which willeth them to sende for the Elders of the Church when they be weak therby plainly declaring that y ● Church ought not onely to haue a Pastor and a Doctor whose cheefe attendance must be on reading exhortation and doctrine But also many who ought alwayes to bee ready at the instant calling of diuers and many at once that none in y ● necessary worke bee neglected it followeth thereby that beside them there ought to be such other elders as may admonish the vnruly comfort the weak minded patient towards all Lastly all those places which say Elders were ordayned Churche by Church that an accusation must not be taken against them vnder two witnesses and such like doe establish these for seeing the wordes are generall to both as haue bene prooued before and no circumstance doth restraine them nay the circumstances vphold y ● general because in the first place Lukes purpose is to declare howe the Apostles broughte the Churches to a perfect and full order of Church-gouernment and in the other the Apostle had spoken immediately before of both sorts Wherfore vnlesse they will ouerthrowe all certayne sense of these places and that notable rule of interpretation that the wordes and sense of places are not to be restrained but vpon repugnance of places or playn circumstaunces of Text they must here vnderstande both sortes of Elders And thus much out of the Scriptures nowe out of the Fathers IGNATIVS AD TRVLL There is no Churche which can stande without her Eldershippe or Councell Tertull. Apoll. Cap. 39. If there bee anye that hath committed such a fault that hee bee put away from the partaking of the Praiers of the Church and from all holy affayres or matters there bee presidents certain of the most approued auncientes and Elders Theophilact on the place of Mat. interpreteth tell the Church tell the Gouernours thereof Ambrose 1. Timoth. 5. Complayneth that the Teachers and Ministers of the Word suffered this to weare out of the Church or rather of pride whilste they onely would seeme to doe somwhat Nowe all knowe that the Elders which they called Sacerdotes Priestes were not worne out of vse therefore hee may meane this and this sheweth what the Fathers meant And CIPRIAN confirmeth that as manifestlye that it remayned in his time where he sayth Lib. 4. Epi. 22 whē either examining whether al things agreed to them which should be in those who were prepared for the Ecclesiasticall function We gaue it to Optatus we with the Elders Doctors and readers ordain him Teacher of those which heare Which sheweth there were Elders for Gouernment which were not occupied in any publike diuine seruice distinguished not onelye from the Preachers but Readers Ierom also saith The Christian Church also hath her Eldership Ier. 2. lib. in Isa Which when he meneth it of such as the Jewes had it is plain hee meaneth those which we doe as may appeare by his wordes of the Jewes Elders Ad Galas quest decim They chose saith he of the wisest of their company for gouernors which shoulde aswell admonish those that had any corporall pollution to abstaine from the assemblies as to reprooue the breakers of the Sabboth A reply to the variable collections following against the Discipline HItherto we haue had whatsoeuer force he coulde make against the seuerall pointes of Church-gouernment handled before Now because he thoght the stenche of the former dung was not strong ynough to ouercome the sweete sauour which the Worde casteth vppon the Discipline hee hath tumbled together as hee thinketh a great many diuersities and contrarieties drawn from the writinges of those which seeke the Church-discipline whereby he woulde faine fasten vppon it that it is not to bee yeelded vnto because the Authors are not At any accorde or resolution amongst themselues nor yet with other learned men Also vppon hie olde song that these matters are in the liberty of the Church it is a very nice and a dangerous scrupulosity rather then to vse that aright which hath beene once abused that a man shoulde goe aboute to deuise and to laye oute new plat-formes in Church-matters in which of necessitie such difficulties will daylye arise that cannot by anye reache of mans wit bee forecast and will breede not only a continuall toil but also infinite daungerous innonations both in the Church and common-wealth Concerning which slaunderous dealing of his I will first generally speake of it and then make aunswere to his seuerall collections adding vnto euery one of his open contradictions inconueniences of their side not only drawn from the diuersitie of mens iudgement which in the best thinges are through humane infirmity at oddes but such as shew the cheefe defendors to bee at warre with them selues in the points which they mayntayn with the holy doctrin which they must needs confesse Now may it please the Reader in the first place to consider what iniutye this man doth not onelye to the Discipline but also to our holy Religion in this manner of dealing For by this reasoning of his it shall come to passe that the Religion when it was first preached by the Apostles because it was ioyned with contrarieties and strifes as of those of the Circumcision with the rest and sometimes with bitternesse and difference betweene the Ministers whilste one woulde haue one that had forsaken the worke go with them another woulde not sometimes tumultes and disorders following the same it might well haue beene refused and east away seeing the Professors were at variance contended and many inconueniences in the reason of man followed their preaching By this meanes the whole religion which is in truth maintained of vs and of our brethren whom now they call Lutherans as an vncertain and vngrounded religion because of contrariety between vs in the