Son hath the Question the Father is taken to be confessed in tormentis filii But for a further instance to make it appear how imcompetent the duty of a Magistrate is with the Nature of a Father I will observe that notwithstanding a Law was given to Adam and all his Sons to establish judicatures according to the Tradition of the Jews as may be seen in Mr. Selden his Book de jure Gentium secundum Hebraeos which Law by the way had been supervacaneous if the Power of a Prince did belong to Adam in the right of his paternity and a Government had been provided for them by their Birth Yet I say notwithstanding that There was such a Relaxation of Justice in the World before the Flood because it could be only administred by a Father or such who participated of the stock of love lodg'd in the common Father from whom his Children did derive their tenderness one to another as they themselves sprang from him That the World was grown so wicked with in 2 ages as men then liv'd from the creation that a Universal deluge was brought upon the World by the Just Judgment of God for the outragious insufferable Wickedness that had spread it self universally over mankind 8 Persons only excepted The overflowing deluge of Wickedness that caus'd the deluge of waters can't be imputed to a more probable cause than to the indulgence and impunity that the observed and understood nearness of Kindred that all men stood then in to one another must naturally occasion This is a sad consequence of that natural Love in Parents towards their Children which was intended for the propagation and advancement of mankind But since that now we are estranged one from another in remote and unknown degrees that prejudice is over Here is a gentleman to destroy the World another way and to undo us by unreasonable and unbounded power which is a like apt to make the World fit for another Universal destruction if it be not without more destroyed by it doth endeavor to turn the exercise of such power into a Right and to give it warranty from the Reason and way of our propagation and by this means to destroy us faster then we can be born and bred and impare the Generations of Mankind or render them extreamly miserable or wicked which is much worse extinguish the light of the world which is Love and Amity and destroy the encouragement and reason of almost all relative Morality What a Saturnine Father have we got to make a golden Age who ever would have thought that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the most moving kindest most tender pleasing and beneficent instinct in Nature planted by God the Father of us all for the propagating educating and improving humane Nature should ever be made use of to found a Right of Tyranny and Arbitrary domination the greatest destroyer and depraver of Mankind What Monster hath this last Age produced a Christian a Father seriously endeavoring to persuade all Mankind to offer up their Children to Moloch the Saturn of the Easterlings who was but the Devil of Tyranny as the name imports This 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the true origen and Fountain of Love and Amity and the sociable Virtues which render men humane from whence flows all the happiness of mankind will by this Doctrine be corrupted and rendred unsincere and self designing For when a Father performs an Act of Generation it seems now he designs to add a slave to his Retinue and when a Child is born there is another item added to the inventory of his Estate If this Fountain be corrupted there can be nothing sincerely kind after it in humane Nature The Leviathan is out-done by this Gentleman and hath not performed half so renownedly in the great Work of depraving Humane Nature as our Patriarchal Knight will do if his Admirers can bring him into vogue and esteem For the Author of the Leviathan allowed something good in Humane Nature several equal propensions which he terms her Counsels and sometimes adventures to call the Laws of Nature But he concludes they are not practicable and they are only fools who govern themselves by them But this Gentlemen will not allow Nature to be good in her first institution and designment tho in this I think they are near agreeable that Mr. Hobs made the Pourtraiture of Humane Nature in an agreeableness to his own evil Ingeny And this Knight did set himself when he made this his draught of a Father he could have no other Original but himself or the Idea of the moross and sower Dr. P.H. his admired friend but by his Character he had at least misfigured his understanding and made it his own Nature by liking it 2ly No more of authority belong'd to Adam over his Children then does to any of his Children over his for that this Authority proceeds from Nature and Nature is a like in all men the duty of their education and the Authority over them that is competent to that purpose is as much incumbent upon them as upon the Protoplast the duty is so personal consisting 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that it cannot be transferred or permitted absolutely to any other person by the Parents nor can any man challenge a right to it or discharge the Father from it or require the same affection submission and reverence that is due from a Child to his Father To expect relative duties without Relation is most unnatural it is as impossible as incongruous and we may as well love and hate rejoyce and grieve without the proper objects and incitements of those passions The fundamental Rule of all morality is that of Simplicius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 It is as certain as any proposition in Euclid as the Doctrin of proportionable triangles and received as such by all the Masters of Moral Philosophy there is no other foundation of our duty to God or Man or towards our selves this rule must declare it and what ever is measured and allowed by this Rule is commonly called which is comprehensive of all that is honest just and fit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the application of this rule is called by St. Paul 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which when a man observes he is perfectly moral a man may as well pay his debts by giving away his Money be grateful to his benefactor by being beneficent to Strangers as perform that duty he ows his Father to any but he that is so It is impossible to separate the shadow from the Substance as to make that subsist by it self which grows by resultance from the state and condition of the person Or that without that state of the person from which it doth arise it should ever accrew 3ly Admitting Adam had a Soveraign Authority over all his descendents which must grow if there was any such thing from some positive institution and not from his paternity yet the natural Authority and duty of Parents towards their Children
Government and fit to be cut off Neither can the most insolent Paradox of Sir Robert Filmers Patriarcha contribute much to this purpose But that it may be able to deceive but a very few for the time to come for the sake of such Gentlemen who have not Chosen their side are glad of the least Color or dream of a Shadow a single opinion of any body it matters not whom to relieve their modesty in their notorious defections from Truth Justice and the Government I shall here consider his Hypothesis especially for that it was Re-printed and is magnified by the Factors for the Popish Plot. And first I will draw it out shortly in all its strength and make it more argumentative than he hath left it for he hath left his willing readers to find out the Argument and to make the Conclusion Adam saith he was the Father of Mankind that to him as Father belonged an Absolute dominion over all his descendents that all Men being so born are born under subjection to such an Authority This authority so reserved upon us by God and the condition of our birth and the manner of coming into the World is to be submitted to in the person of the present King who by becoming King is for that reason vested with this absolute Authority This power and the duty of our subjection to it results from our being Born and coming into the World after the manner of men This power of Kings is grounded by him meerly upon this natural resultance and not from any positive and express Revelation from God for such neither we nor he yet ever heard of We will now then consider what there is of weight in this fictitious Reason of Government in which the World is so lately illuminated by this Speculator what force there is in it to unravel all Models of Government that are framed in the World to confound Kingdoms and Nations and to give Warranty to the bringing upon us all the miseries that are designed by the Papists for us which we are to be prepared to suffer with most conscientious patience from the comforts and supports of this insolent and vain pretence I appeal to the Reader of him whither in thus stating his Doctrine I have not made it more Argumentative and concluding to his purpose than he left it I will take this method of remonstrating the fertility of his Hypothesis By considering what a Father is and what his Duty towards and Power over his Children in which it will be found that nothing of Empire belongs to him as Father that no more belonged to Adam over his Children than did to any of his Children over their own That the Authority of Parents over their Children continues together with Soveraign power and is not at all abated by it and that it cannot be the same because it continues entire with it That there is no footsteps in the Records of the Old Testament to verify his Hypothesis that we could not have wanted some Declarations about it from God if true it being a matter so necessary for us to know That no claims were made that we know of to any such authority in the earliest times when the Right was unprejudiced and must have been best understood and could not have been forgotten as now it is utterly Besides that it was never used The first Histories Recorded in the Bible makes every Child of the common Ancestor alike independent and absolute and so it would for ever have continued And to this day we should have been in the state of Nature and not United in any Government and so no King yet in the World notwithstanding the Paternal authority That his Instances of exercising Soveraign power by the Fathers of Families are not concluding and to this purpose That admitting Adam had while he liv'd been Universal Monarch yet if there be no other reason and Foundation of Monarchy in the World but this of Sir Robert Filmer Adams right heir not been known and if he were might perhaps be an Ideot or Lunatick some Cobler or Botcher under a Stall or mean Person unfit to govern we can have no rightful King in the World for certain it is that there is nothing in the World so personal as Relations and the duties and Rights that do result from them for they are neither assignable to nor can be exercised or exacted by and between any persons but the Relatives themselves So that this power of Sir R. F. hath no foundation of reason in the nature of things was in Fact never exercised and is now utterly fallen to the ground and all Government with it A more pusled vain sensless and unlearned Paradox was never yet offer'd to the World nor a thing more mischievous ever received The absolute Power of a Prince over his Subjects is not at all connatural to the dutiful Care of a Father over his Children It was the good pleasure of God that this part of the immense world should be planted with men endowed with a capacity to admire his power wisdom and goodness and therefore to render him praise and worship he design'd that we should be happy in our own enjoyments and promote the happiness of each other which is not to be performed but by a mind serene beneficent and loving He provided that the disseminations of Love should run parallel and be under a like necessity with the propagation of our kind For the planting love in our nature he instituted Marriage for Procreation that we might owe our Being to the state of the greatest and most agreeable friendship and tenderest affection That for many years we should be educated by a pure single and undesigning love of our Parents and the friendship of that conjugal State should be maintained by and principally exercised in their common care of their issue Every Act of Love of either of the Parents to the Child being the best instance of love to the other of them an endearment of a reciprocal love and a provocation to the like love and care of the Child God did likewise ordain and so it was that all Mankind should derive from one stock be made of one blood and every Man every Mans Brother of the same family and cognation By this it was provided by the Father of us all that we should be born into the World under the tendrest care for our preservation and improvement of our Nature and be powerfully enclined to love and beneficence whereby we may be pleased with our selves and at Peace and Amity with our whole kind That the Generations of Mankind might certainly proceed God planted in our Natures powerful and irresistible instincts to procreation which the Jews call a Precept tho after this no Precept seem'd necessary for encrease and multiply they make a Command But we follow our own propensions and have no conscience of obedience to a Law when we observe and follow them which are so strong pleasurable and entertaining that if
God had not planted a restraint of Modesty in our Natures and a sense of decency Wâ— should over do the business and degrade ouâ— selves from the dignity of our Natures Thus far the Parents are fulfilling Gods appointments and gratifying their own Natures What from all this can give them a right over their Child all men coming into the world this way are no less free then if they had been form'd in Lucretius his Bottles and drop't out of his imaginary matrixes and we were all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Aborigines In this they are only executing the appointment of God are but his Instruments to bring us into this World and are all along rewarded and entertained and caressed by the order of Nature Adam ow'd this duty to God his Father and so ordered it was that he ow'd it to himself and to his own natural propensions pleasures and satisfactions to propagate The several succeeding generations of men as soon as they are men have as much Right to the enjoyment of themselves to the freedom of their own Will and to live by their own measures as Adam himself had Our Parents do not give us life but hand it to us from the Fountain of being the Universal Father of all things Vitai Lampadu tradunt And this is allowed acknowledged by all Mankind for assoon as Children can Govern themselves we declare them free that they are sui juris they are extrafamiliated and become themselves Fathers and acquire to themselves But that which hath imposed upon this Gentleman I believe is for that while they are to be educated their Parents exercise an Authority over their Children which a souer Father may imagine to be power This I believe gave the Gentleman his mastake because he saith a Child and a Slave doth not differ which is a shrewd indication that he was something too masterly over his Children But all equal parents know and understand that the Education of their Children is duty and care and may not improperly be called a Sort of Generation Work For I pray let it be considered that the foetus is not perfected assoon as it is extruded the Matrix no not until it be able to perform unassisted all the Actions of its proper life That the life of a man is a life of Reason that he cannot do the Acts of a man until he hath it in the exercise of it He is not a perfect foetus so as to be neglected by his parents as soon as he can feed himself the man after this may miscarry and if exposed by his parents and not continued under their care be abortivated Education is a kind of Incubation Our faculties are to be formed and drawn out into use as well as our body to be organized before we can be denominated men and while this is aâ—complishing the parents are but executing the natural instinct of propagating their like until they have made them men they are not begotten in their own likeness They therefore with an easie propension and a natural care do apply themselves to offer things to their observation to furnish their Memories to try their judgments in little Essays to render them discoursive to draw out their faculties into use until by little and little they arrive at discretion and a power to form true judgments of what belongs to them and to govern themselves in such Affairs and businesses that are to employ them But while this is a doing they are under a Government of love and care by the Arts of Discipline to be trained up to perfection Several freakishnesses and caprices are to be cured and the strength and luxuriancies of several natural Appetites are to be abated and restrained and they are to be held to attention and observation and made patient of instruction and correction is to be administred to these purposes and by these measures but this duty of Correction doth not participate any thing of the Nature of Civil Government It hath nothing of the Nature of punishment exemplarity or vindicative Justice It is not for the gratifying of the Parents displeasure to secure him against wrong or injury to deter others but to amend improve and better the Child and always terminated to and directed to that end and by those measures it is tenderly and affectionately administred It will not be impertinent to observe that our Common Law had no opinion of any Soveraign Authority in a Father And also that the Statute of 25 E. 3. which declares petty Treasons as well as high Treasons doth not declare the sons killing the Father to be Treason tho Treason it is for a Servant to Kill his Master In which we have the Authority of our Parliament and of the constant opinion of our Judges That the nature and relation of a Father and a Son doth not savor any thing of Government or of a servile or Political subjection For that they have not made parricide Treason tho it is the most unnatural and most detestable Crime and a far greater sin than that of Killing a Master But further to clear the true notion of a Fathers Authority that it is duty and care not Empire and absolute will Let it be considered that God by his right of Creation hath an absolute dominion over us we are more his than we are our own or than any thing can be ours Yet when he was pleased of his gracious condescention to our capacity to quiet our fears of his power and to invite our love and assure our hope he did declare himself our Father thereby to assure us that he would not rule us pro imperio and according to his absolute right he had over us that stile he himself delights to use and give us leave to call him our Father by which we all understand that he will not proceed with us according to his Right of absolute domination no not in the terms of Right and Political Justice But that he will consider our frame pity our infirmity correct us as his Children but not punish us with an exterminating Justice Amongst the Romans antiently no man was admitted a Judge in criminal Causes but he that was a Father of Children that the severities of a Judge might be abated by the tenderness of a Father that he who had Children of his own might have the more pity to those of others so different is the office of a Judge from the natural duty and tenderness of a Father And it is the greatest violence that can be done to nature to compel a Father to sit in Judgment upon his Son and next to that of obliging and compelling a man to execute himself to make it the Fathers duty to pronounce a capital sentence upon the Son is the most unnatural thing in the world the Father and the Son in this consideration are conjunctae personae and when the Sin of the Father is visited upon the son the son is afflicted but the Father is punished and when the
continues entire together with Sovereign Power and is not at all abated by it and therefore cannot be the same No Soveraign Power can extort the Children from their Fathers Authority and care This is a duty in Nature before Governments They cannot belong to the Government before they are filii precepti and capable of the Conscience of a Law It is a duty in Parents to Educate their Children and a right they have in consequence to govern them that cannot be taken from them It is the Parents duty to form their consciences They are appoint-by God the great Ministers of his Providence to the Children That they perform this Office he hath tyed them to it by the sweatest constraints and almost violences of Nature by an irresistable love and tyes of Endearment that cannot be broken this declares their Right of Authority over their Children against any interposings of Soveraign Authority to its prejudice let or hindrance Thomas Aquinas positively determines that it is not lawful for Christian Kings to baptize the Children of the Jews against the will of their Parents for that saith he it is against the course of natural justice 4ly There is no footsteps in the Records of the old World to verifie this Hypothesis That such Authority was so much as pretended to be used or exercised by Adam but we find instances against it in the short History before the Flood Cain received no sentence from Adam his Prince and Soveraign Judg but from God himself or rather from his Shecinah or some visible Representation of his presence Thence he obtained some degree of impunity and his life protected No mention here at all of Adam his taking the Tribunal or Cains arraignment or of any pardon or indulgence granted by King Adam Lamech that had Kill'd a man by mischance did not alledge his case at his Father Adams Court and the matter of extenuation of the Man-killing we hear of no pardon of Course to be allowed when the circumstances of fact had been first judicially considered How could a thing of such importance be omitted in the story of the old World tho so short It was of more concernment than to know that Tubal Cain was the first Smith and Jubal the first man that made a Musical instrument to know the original nature and reason of Government Besides we find all the grand Children of Noah becoming Princes of Countries and the Sons and grand sons of Esau alike Dukes and Princes that is at least absolute Fathers of their own Families and ruling over such as were their slaves and dependents And the 12 Sons of Jacob are all called Patriarchs When Nimrod played the Tyrant we find nothing said for his justification upon any Patriarchal right But if we consult the Traditions of the Jews they will inform us of another original of Government and that is this They say that God gave several Precepts to Adam and his Sons and Noah and his Sons and one amongst the rest that they should erect Governments which his Sons could not have performed without Rebellion against their King Father if Adam had been so as Sir Robert Filmer first dreamt Also besides that of making Governments there was a Precept given them of honoring their Parents Selden de jure Naturae secundum Hebraeos fol. 2792. And therefore the Precept of honoring Parents is a distinct duty from that of obedience to Governments By this Precept they had Authority in general to establish Governments amongst themselves in the specification of which they were left to rheir own liberty and discretion and therefore were not obliged to any single form of Government It must be understood that the Precept which required the Sons of Adam and Noah to establish Governments required also every mans Submission to their Orders Laws and Decrees when established Lastly We will consider of the instances he gives of the Exercise of Soveraign Power by Fathers of Families which are as impertinent to his purpose as his Doctrine is groundless and precarious but they are these Abrahams War and Judahs judgment upon Thamar As to the first of Abrahams making War We say we cannot allow that making War doth argue any Soveraign Authority It is sufficient that he who makes it is under none to make a vindicative War Lawful For an injured Person may in the State of Nature vindicate wrongs by an authority derived from God and Nature to a just satisfaction Because there is no competent judicature to appeal to for right and redress But see how unhappy the Gentleman is This very instance of his production is clearly against him for if Soveraign Power had been Patriarchal Abraham had been guilty of Treason in making War without a Commission from Melchizedech the King of Salem who as the Learned men conjecture was Shem his Patriarch and Chief and known by him for such But because Abraham the best man perhaps in any Age did not take a Commission from Melchizedech his Patriarchal chief And yet he was blessed by Melchizedech when he returned from the War We may conclude that neither Melchizedeeh nor Abraham knew of any such Patriarchal Soveraignty And also from this great example it appears that it is lawful for him that is not a Soveraign if he be not under any to make War I will not enter into a discourse whence and how is derived the Authority of making War and capital Sentences which must have the same reason to warrant both which hath pusled some great Divines Dr. Hammond that great man was at a loss in this enquiry and thinks that nothing but a Divine Authority can warrant them which hath put them upon strange extravagant Hypotheses of Government and sent this Knights brains a Wool-gathering But this may satisfie any man of sense that whatever is necessary for the general happiness of mankind and for preserving peace in the world and protecting the innocent and disinabling the mighty oppressors is more commendable to be done then the Killing a man in his own defence is simply lawful As to his second instance of Judah his Sentence pronounced upon his Daughter in Law Thamar which he would have an exercise of Patriarchal Soveraign Authority We say how could Judah do this by a Patriarchal Power when Jacob his Father was then alive and for all that appears Judah his Son was not extrafamiliated Besides which is very unlucky Thamar was then none of his Family or of the Subjects of his Domestick Empire for his Son her Husband being dead she was free from the Law of her Husband and ceased to be a Subject of his Paternal Kingdom But Mr. Selden under the Authority of some Rabbins which he cites in his excellent Book before mentioned Fol. 807. saith that Judah might have the Office of a Prince or Magistrate in a district in that Country and by that Authority might judge her according to the Laws of that Country But what the Law was and the Nature and reason of her offence
concesserunt in sententiam Excommunicationis generaliter latam apud Westm decimo tertio die Maii Anno Regni Regis praedicti 37 in hac forma viz. Quòd vinculo praefatae sententiae ligentur omnes venientes contra Libertates contentas in Chartis communium Libertatum Angliae de Foresta omnes qui Libertates Ecclesiae Angliae temporibus Domini Regis praedecessorum suorum Regni Angliae obtentas usitatas scienter malitiosè violaverint aut infringere praesumpserint And the Record concludes In hujus rei memoriam in posterum veritatis testimonium tam Dominus Rex quà m praedicti Comites ad instantiam aliorum populi praesentium which at that time was the style of a Parliament and the manner of passing such Acts scripto sigilla sua apposuerunt Rot. Pat. 37 H. 3. M. 12. dorso And whereas it was provided by the Confirmat Chart. c. 4.25 E. 1. and by the Statute De Tallagio non concedendo c. 4.34 E. 1. That Excommunication should twice a year be denounced against the Infringers of Magna Charta At a Synod held for the Province of Canterbury in that Kings time John Peckam Archbishop of Canterbury enjoyned the like Denunciations near four times every year Constit Provinc tit De Sententia Excom And in the Province of York it obtained three times in a year Manuale juxta usum Ecclesiae Eboracensis By which the exemplary zele of the Bishops in those times against Oppression and the violation of the common Rights and the attempts of absolute and unlimited power appears for that they prevented the Temporal Baronage and outdid the Parliament it self in defending and guarding the Government of Laws By the way we cannot but take notice of Mr. Selden his mistake in his book De Synedriis which he fell into by inserving to his beloved Erastian Hypothesis viz. That that Excommunication before mentioned in 37 H. 3. was enacted by Parliament whereas it was onely confirmed but pronounced by the Bishops though with the seeming good liking of that King so that the Power of the Keys was not usurp'd but the exercise thereof approved by Parliament according to what hath been usual as Grotius observes Vsum Clavium Divino Juri congruum poenarum injunctionem Canonibus Legibus consentaneum summae potestates solent approbare atque hoc est Imperiale Anathema Quòd non una Justiniani lege comprehensum est Which together with what hath been said by us here will serve for an Answer to what Mr. Selden hath aggested in his book De Synedriis for wresting the Keys out of the hands of the Bishops They pretend to a Jus Divinum only for that which merely concerns their Spiritual Office and I cannot for my part suspect them of holding any Opinion of a Jus divinum in Civil Offices which are of a Humane Original because I can imagine no reason for such an Opinion though I know it is by some imputed to them By a Thomas of Becket a Sibthorp and Manwaring and a few less-considering Clergy-men in an Age we are not to conclude the Judgment of the Body of our Learned Clergy They assuredly know as all men in their Wits do believe that the Government is de jure such as it is and can be no other nor rightfully admit any Alteration That God never made any Commonwealth but one by his directive Will and that only for one Nation for in these things he hath left men ordinarily in the Hands of their own Councils and to their own Prudence in which he had no regard to the absolute rightful Sovereignty of Adam's right Heir the wildest certainly of all the Paradoxes that this giddy phantastick Age hath produced The Kentish Knight should have kept his Dream to himself until he had found him out and then have brought him and his Book called Patriarcha together to the King Then I doubt not but his Majesty would have provided him his due Reward But his Book and the Publishers thereof deserve his Majesty's utmost Displeasute For we are in fear that the Government is about to be changed when Books are licensed to prove any thing Lawful in that kind And besides it makes a Charge upon our Divines that they have a good liking to the Design for that they who best understand by their Profession the jura divina have not answered it But to speak the Truth the Book is not to be answered For it is but a fine Essay how near Non-sence may be made to look like Sence and it is truly worth no man 's Undertaking But whatsoever sinister thoughts some ill affected Men to the Bishops may conceive of them we expect and with reason too that they will with equal Courage to that recorded of their Predecessors stand up for the Preservation of the Government in its true and rightful Constitution And the rather for that the true Religion their Principal Care and their Temporal Rights and Dignities will inevitably perish in the Change Nay perhaps in consequence of the very Attempt of a Change except they strenuously for their parts oppose it However their Order will certainly by their Silence and Indifferency be rendred despicable They will lose all opinion with the People of their Sincerity perform their Functions with no advantage and lose that share in the Honors and Affections of the People that will establish them bespeak them useful and necessary to the Church and state in their several Capacities in all after times That they answer their Trust and perform that Duty which they owe to the Publick in their several Offices is that we may justly expect And this they will certainly do though they should be censured as they were in K. John's days or in the Language of the Folio Author charged to be clamorous and over-busie Medlers in Matters of State and Government But to return Is it not a course Artifice in the Octavo pag. 96. that he will so willfully mistake the Question'd of the Bishops being one of the three States and representing the Matter as if the Bishops should have a Negative by themselves to stop the passing of any Bill if they are admitted to be a distinct State CHAP. XXVI WHen it is not disputed or brought into Question whether they are divided in their Voting from the Temporal Barons most certainly they never were nor was it ever disputed Though an obstinate Opinion was maintained from the Time of E. 2. in the Case of the Spencers until the Time of E. 5. in the Case of the Earl of Salisbury that the Bishops Presence was necessary in Judgments even in Capital Causes which must be allowed a clear Argument for their Right of Judgment in such Causes For the Spiritual and Temporal Lords though two States make but one House upon the Reasons afore-mentioned according to the general Understanding and Usage of former Ages But upon this Supposition he tells us of several Bills that gave furtherance to