Selected quad for the lemma: doctrine_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
doctrine_n	know_v	scripture_n	tradition_n	2,389	5	9.3614	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A33979	A supplement to a little book entituled, A reasonable account why some pious nonconforming ministers cannot judg it lawful for them to perform their ministerial acts in publick solemn prayer, ordinarily, by the prescribed forms of others : wherein is examined whatsoever Mr. Falconer in his book called, Libertas ecclesiastica, and Mr. Pelling in a book called, The good old way, have said to prove the ancient use of forms of prayers by ministers : and it is proved, that neither of the two aforementioned authors have said anything that proveth the general use, or imposition of such forms of prayer in any considerable part of the church, till Pope Gregories time, which was six hundred years after Christ, nor in any church since the reformation, except that of England, and (which is uncertain) some in Saxony.	Collinges, John, 1623-1690.; Falkner, William, d. 1682. Libertas ecclesiastica.; Pelling, Edward, d. 1718. Good old way.	1680 (1680)	Wing C5343; ESTC R18940	53,644	120

to those Numerical words or syllables Luther and Calvin's use proveth it not I hope but yet we think we may lawfully use any form of Gods prescription the question is Whether we may use no other nor that with the least variation Our Brother's second argument is yet weaker The Disciples said Lord teach us to pray as John taught his Disciples What then was it not an apposite answer for him to tell them That now they must call God Father and pray that his Name might be sanctified his Kingdom come his will be done c. unless he set them a form of words to which they might not add nor diminish The Disciples did not say Lord tell us what words and no other we must use in prayer But thirdly saith our Brother our Saviour gives in the phrase of prayer but doth this conclude so do we sometimes give our Children forms which we desire not they should use as forms but directions to speak to the like purpose For Cyprian Tertullian and Gregory who lived 300 400 800 years after Christ they were not like to know Christs intention in this more than we and for their use of it as a form We do not think it unlawful to use those intire words and phrases as a part of our prayers nor indeed any other Scriptural forms of words that are proper But on the other side are they not two great presumptions that our Saviour never intended it as a form 1. That we never read in Scripture that it was so used afterward 2. That the name of Christ in whose name Joh. 16. we are commanded to pray is not in it unless by implication as it hath been in all prayers of the Church since the Ascension of Christ the prayers concluding for the sake of our Lord Jesus Christ To compremise this business I believe it was as a form given to the Disciples being then but children and not perfectly instructed to the Kingdom of God and they might or might not use it as a form until they should be more fully instructed and inabled but not with any obligation upon them or the Church after them necessarily to use those numerical words in that order nay that after Christs Resurrection it was their duty to add something more to their prayers asking plainly and expresly in the name of Jesus Christ For he tells them Joh. 16. 24. Hitherto you have asked nothing in my name how could that be true if they had used the Lords-prayer till then and the petitions there had been so put up in the name of Christ as appears to have been his will now vers 23. Our Brothers next instance is pag. 103 104 105. from the example of the Jewish Church here he tells us That the Jews did use prayers with their sacrifices and had their hours of prayer These things he proveth well from Lev. 1. 10. Act. 3. 1. and that Aaron was to confess the sins of the people over the live-goat Lev. 16. 21. What is all this to the purpose none doubts but that Priests and people prayed under the Old Testament as well as the New But the question is Whether by stated forms or no 2. He tells us there are evidences in Scripture of such forms 2 Chron. 29. 30. The King commanded the people to praise God with the words of David and Asaph That is with such and such portions of holy writ do not all men grant that some parts of holy Writ may be sung in publick Worship The Nonconformists will allow no other he instanceth in Joel 2. 17. Hos 14. 2. Deut. 21. 8. Deut. 26. 3 4 5 13 14. It is true in all these Texts there are some short very short forms of prayer as they lye before us they are so But 1. can our Reverend Brother think so short phrases or sentences as some of them are were ever used as the only solemn prayer used at that time 2. Is there any Record that they were ever syllabically used 3. Is it said you shall use these words and no other 4. Is it not ordinary for us in our Sermons directing people only to what sense to pray in our Sermons to say Go to God and say c. and then give them a short prayer which we never intend they should use as a form 5. Is it not reasonable to think this was all intended in these passages when we consider the length and solemnity of the Prayers recorded in Scripture of Solomon Ezra Daniel Hezekiah Jehoshaphat For the practice of the Jews in later days I shall only say this 1. That he knows how little credit is to be given to any testimony of the Rabbins and what time the earliest writings of theirs appear'd 2. How ill their practice can be pleaded who our Saviour saith worshipped God vainly teaching for Doctrines the Traditions of men 3. That I observe Luk. 4. 16. that when our Saviour at Nazareth went into the Synagogue the Clerk did not bring him any Common-prayer-book but the book of the Prophet Isaias which he made use of § 6. Let us now leave these pretences of more ancient proof and come to consider what hath indeed been the practice of the Church since the Apostles times for our Reverend Brother thinks it probable that while the miraculous gifts of the Spirit continued Prayer was performed by them For the time succeeding the Apostles it must be divided into three periods 1. The first is the purer period of it before the Bishop of Rome got fully into Saddle this as to Doctrine held to a great degree for 500 years but as to Rites and Ceremonies scarce half so long as we shall possibly shortly shew 2. The second is the depraved period of it which was for a 1000 years as to Doctrine 1200 and more as to some matters of Rites and Government 3. The Reformed period of it which was from the year 1516 and is yet going on For the first of these Periods we have not so full and clear an evidence of what was the practice of the Church as we could desire For though it was after the year 600 that the Bishop of Rome got the Title of Vniversal Bishop and some years after that before the Church of Rome was furnished with all her present accoutrements and 1200 before Transubstantiation was setled Yet betwixt that and 1500 they had time enough to burn all the Writings of the Ancients from which the practice of the Primitive Church might appear to us or so to correct them and interpolate that we might see little or nothing that could be made use of to shew the Novelties of their Doctrine and practice yet Bernardus non vidit omnia some things scaped their eye or correction of which our Divines make good use Let us see what our Reverend Brother produceth for the first 300 years which all Divines say was the most pure times of the Church It is not our part to prove the Negative it lyeth upon our Brethren to

and ignorant as to the generality of their Ministers they made it their business to put out and put in to the Writings of the ancients what they pleased to forge Writings to be theirs which were not so and suppress others that were so which is evident from the Writings of Papists as well as Protestants Sixtus Senensis Possevine Bellarmine were all Papists so was Erasmus Rivet and Cocus were Protestants they have all books extant to teach us to distinguish betwixt the true Writings of the Ancients and those pretended to be theirs but not so And there is no doubt but it was through meer carelesness if they left a word or line in the ancients against any point of Doctrine any way of Worship any Rite or Ceremony in credit at Rome or used in their Church 5. From them came Justin Martyr Ignatius Clement Tertullian Ambrose Augustine in short all the Writings of the Fathers we have except possibly some two or three of the Greek Fathers yet the most famous and common Editions of them are all Popish and come out to us with their puttings out and puttings in what they pleased 6. From hence will appear what little credit is to be given to any thing in any of the books published under their names any further than it is agreeable with the Scripture and bottomed there 7. Allow me the Editions of the Fathers and Councils which the Papists have let us have I hardly know one Doctrine of Popery or one Idolatrous or Superstitious Practice Rite or Ceremony at Rome but I will bring as good proof for as either Mr. Faulconer or Mr. Pelling have brought for the Antiquity of forms of prayer generally used 8. From hence it follows that those who lay such stress on this point of Antiquity in the case are but doing the Papists work laying a foundation for the Papists to build all their abominable Doctrines Idolatries and Practices upon and he is half a Papist that is resolved to believe all those things true which may be found in the ancient Writings as we have them We have so much charity for those great and holy men as to believe they never wrote any such things though some Popish Monks and Fryers have fathered them upon them 9. If any will yet believe what they find in their Works as we now have them he stands obliged not to do it rashly but to read 1. what both Papists and Protestants have wrote as to that book of theirs out of which the Quotation is 2. Then to consider what was the signification of the words Liturgy Merit Offices and an 100 more in that age and whether we have not put a new sense upon them not known in their times 3. To consider how far in the judgment of Protestants the Church was corrupted in the times when those Fathers wrote 10. This I take to be a tedious work the Prophet Isa 8. 20. hath taught me a nearer and safer course To the law and to the testimony if they speak not according to this word it is because there is no light in them Does any say but how will you know the sense of the Scriptures I answer from my own conscience and reason comparing things spiritual with things spiritual and hearing the judgments of others before I determine Will they say but you may be deceived it is true so might the Fathers but in things necessary if I use prayer I have a promise The Spirit shall lead you into all truth I am sure I can from Scripture be as certain of the Will of God in any case as I can be that any one leaf of the Fathers were ever written by them and if it were I am sure they were fallible men as well as I and in many things did err The pressing and laying so much stress as men do some men on authority and antiquity is in truth nothing but a mighty facturing for Popery and it is impossible but learned men must understand so much Besides not one often who talks so much of the Fathers and antiquity regards what Edition he quotes or makes use of and all know that where there is one of the Ancients to be got so much as of Erasmus his Edition who was a Papist but seemeth just and honest there are ten of filthy and most corrupt Popish Editions where the Reader can safely trust nothing And thus much shall serve for Mr. Pelling for I am not concerned as to what he saith for the English Liturgy let it be as fine a thing as it will if it be unlawful for me to use any in my Ministration in prayer it is most certainly unlawful for me to use that and at that boundary I stick till better reason than I have yet met with removes me from it FINIS For the Reverend his very Worthy Friend c. SIR YOU must think me either very regardless of the Obligations you have laid on me or which I had rather chuse very inconcerned in the New Argument for Forms of Prayer from Matth. 26. 44. that I should put you to the trouble of a second Letter to mind me not to overlook it and particularly to give you my thoughts upon it Indeed Sir the Argumentation from it savours fo little of a Scholar or a rational man that I did not think you in earnest But calling to mind that the Gentlemen we have to do with think they have a conclusive argument in the case from the ●… Apostles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 command that prayers should be made for all men 1 Tim. 2 which surely may be made by each Minister for his Congregation and shall not need be prescribed in a book and what your self told me that you heard a late Bishop of Bath and Wells say That it was very probable that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Parchments left at Troas which St. Paul took such care Timothy should bring were the Church-prayers or Liturgy forgetting as you well note that there St. Paul prayed some time without them I began to assume some more deliberate thoughts of that Text Mat. 26. especially reading what you write that you had once met with it in Print and had often heard it in Sermons and Conferences For Sermons men now-a-days use more Rhetorick than Logick but methinks in Prints and Conferences they should be more Logical Let me therefore consider the Text Mat. 26. 44. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 we translate it saying the same words so saith Mark 14. 39. Luke mentioneth but one prayer Now Sir how 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 can be translated the same words judg you it must be the same word if any thing ●nd we know though our Saviours prayer were very short yet there was more than one or two words in it But Sir this Topick speaks either a very great ignorance or a wilful design to lead others to mistake in those that use it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not signifie always a syllabical word but the thing

as now who would ill understand it Can. 8. It also pleased them c. That if any should say That the words of the Lords Prayer Forgive us our debts are only used by the Saints to signifie their humility not to express a truth Let him be Anathema For how can one be induced in prayer to lye and that not to men but to God with his lips desiring that his sins might be forgiven him when in heart he thought he had no sins to be forgiven I have been a little more large in this story because I am pretty confident and dare challenge all our adversaries to give us but one proof that any part of the Church before this time assembled in any Council took upon them to impose Forms of Prayer to be used by all Ministers within their Jurisdiction If some men made themselves Forms and used them they yet served God in their Ministry in the use of their own gifts this signifieth just nothing to our case who have known divers worthy men do the like We have now the case here was a Council of worthy men all relating to the Province of Numidia who met at Mela. The occasion of their meeting was the woful spreading of the Doctrine of Pelagius who denied Original Sin Assisting Grace or that justified persons could sin or need beg the pardon of sin Many if not the greatest part of their Ministers were tainted with these Opinions In this distress to stop the diffusing this venom and that the people through the error ignorance or carelesness of their Ministry might not be without any to go before them in publick prayers who could or would put up due confessions or necessary petitions for them having first in eight Canons condemned the Doctrines of Pelagius they make their twelfth Canon in these terms It also pleased them c. That those prayers or Masses or Prefaces or Commendations or Impositions of hands which shall be approved in the Council be used of all and that no other be used in the Church but what shall be treated on and approved in a Synod lest perhaps something should be composed contrary to the true faith either through ignorance or carelesness I observe 1. That this Canon extends to all Ministerial services not to prayers only as to all they were limited to forms 2. That it was not to any forms that before this time had been enjoined or used in this or in any other Church but such as should first be treated of and approved in a Synod or Council 3. That it was done in a case of woful distress when the Ministers were known to be so corrupted in their judgments that they could neither put up such confessions or supplications as they ought they could not confess original sin nor pray for assisting grace nor for pardon of sins renewing after Justification 4. I observe this was in the fifth Century and if we will believe Vossius it must be after 505 for he saith Histor Pelag. l. 1. c. 3. that in that year Chrysostome being in banishment and near his death he first spread his Doctrines Others make it 402. It must be in the Popedom of Innocent 1. who was not Pope 18 months for Aurelius was President there in the notion of his Legate Take this story in its circumstances it 's far from a justifiable authority to maintain that it was the judgment of the Church in the purer ages That forms of prayer might be lawfully enjoined all Ministers whether under such circumstances or no. Their ends were that the poor people might have due prayers put up for them and be taught the Doctrine of Original sin the impotency of mans will to what was spiritually good the need of assisting grace that they sin seven times a day and had need beg pardon That original sin might in prayer be confessed and the impotency of human nature to that which is truly good with their daily renewing sins that so pardon might be beg'd for them and assistance of Divine grace against them and unto spiritual duty How should this end have been obtained in that corrupted state but by set-forms of Prayers and Sermons too Should they on the sudden have turned out all these Ministers it is not probable they on the sudden could have found enough fitted for the work Because in this exigent this Council judged it lawful shall it therefore be concluded to b● the judgment even of those few Bishops in that Council That it is lawful for any in any state of a Church to do the like Besides what hindred but that according to this Canon every Minister might compose his own prayers and bring them to be approved in a Council § 11. The truth is this proved a sad president all know how long Peldgius his Doctrine spread a very great part of the Church how many Councils assembled against it 'T is very probable other Churches followed this Canon not in force of it for it could oblige none but the Province of Numidia but as thinking it lawful till at length as the Grandieur of the Romish Bishops required a pack of ignorant and sottish Ministers of which there was a remarkable plenty in the sixth and seventh age it crept into a custom and a piece of Ecclesiastical Common Law But we shall hereafter shew that the practice of the visible Church after 400 years in Rituals is not very imitable by those that will make the word of God a light to their feet but we must go back a little to consider what our Author insinuates p. 105. of the Liturgies which the Papists have invented in all probability and intituled St. Peter St. James and St. Mark and St. John too as also those which they have intituled St. Chrysostome St. Basil and St. Ambrose to● § 12. For the former our Reverend Brother speaketh thus pag. 105. And I yield it most probable though even Protestant writers herein differ that the ancient Roman Jerusalem and Alexandrian Offices were called the Liturgies of St. Peter St. James and St. Mark because of their certain early use in the Churches where they presided though it is not certain they were composed by them this being mentioned by no ancient writer of the first Centuries Nor do I doubt but the Liturgy or Anaphoca of St. John and that of the twelve Apostles are supposititious From which I observe 1. That if during the time that the extraordinary gifts of the Holy Ghost lasted the Ministerial Services were by the Apostles performed by them it is very absurd to say Peter James Mark and John who all were possessed of them prayed by prescribed forms 2. I observe our Reverend Brother I hope unadvisedly hath granted here the Papists a great point That Peter was the first Bishop of Rome for he calls Rome the Church where he resided for we know James resided at Hierusalem Mark at Alexandria this is both a liberal and groundless grant Magni hoc mercentur Achivi 3. Did Saint

Peter James and Mark themselves use them No saith our Author that is incertain it is false and our Author yields it in saying they ministred by their extraordinary gifts Now we read of no Liturgy came down in the days of Pentecost was it by others that came after them who or how long after because he saith they were of certain early use in those Churches how doth that appear doth he account 450 years after when Socrates tells us there were not two to be found speaking the same things in their prayers early 4. He acknowledgeth he speaks without proof and by guess for he hath no writer in the first Centuries that mentions them But seeing this Reverend Author can say no more for them let us see if nothing can be said against them That of St. Mark and St. Peter the Papists and they know best I believe make to be both the same if they be the learned Morney hath supplied us with enough to say against them 1. The 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are found often enough in that Liturgy which argues it to be made more than 300 years after St. Peter and St. Mark were in Heaven or else there had been no reason for so long a conrest as was in the Church about those things St. Peter's and St. Mark 's Liturgy had in a minute determined the business 2. In that Liturgy are several prayers for Monks and Monasteries persons and things never thought of till some hundreds of years after Christ 3. There is also mention of Temples Altars Incensings for remission of sins did St. Peter or St. Mark think we know many such things 4. There are prayers for the Pope who commenced 800 years after Peter and Mark were dead 5. There is also in St. Mark 's prayers for Subdeacons Readers Singers nay Mark is made to pray that God would save the City of Alexandria for the sake of his Martyr S Mark. Can our Reverend Brother think these things were of any early use at Alexandria how are our judgments oft-times bribed by our passions For St. James his Liturgy 1. How often is the Virgin in it called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Mother of God when in the Synod of Ephesus and Chalcedon against Nestorius and Eutyches the Fathers had much ado to find one or two places where she was so called in Origen and Eusebius yet the latter lived 400 years after Christ All know what a stir was 300 years after Christ to get Christ agreed equal with his Father in essence This Liturgy had it been known then had prevented all that for He and his Father are every where called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Hymn called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which was not composed till 400 years after Here are also prayers for Monasteries unknown for more than 300 years after In it there is a prayer that we might find grace with confession a name and a prayer not known long after There is in it mention made of Temples and Altars which Christians had none of for 300 years of offering incense for remission of sins c. not like St. James his Doctrine There are in it prayers for the dead to the Virgin Mary which James never made and the Doxology Glory be to the Father c. and the Hymn Glory to God in the highest c. are in it too brought into use in the Church-Liturgies many hundreds of years after St. James his time Yet we must believe that these Liturgies were of early use and these were but additions since though 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be woven into the best part Quod volumus facile credimus The Reader may read much more in the incomparably learned Lord of Morney's book de Missa l 1. cap. 2. from whence what we have here said is taken Nor do I see how it can be avoided but if Peter Mark and James were the Authors of these pretended Liturgies they must be of equal authority with the Scriptures as that Noble Lord saith And being things of no better reputation than they are though our Reverend Brother hath said little for them yet he hath said a great deal too much for a person of so valuable a judgment and learning and sobriety to speak § 13. We shall come now to hear what he saith to the pretended Liturgies of St. Ambrose St. Chrysostome and St. Basil They all flourishrished above 350 years after Christ Basil in the year 370 Ambrose about the year 374 Chrysostome about the year 398 Basil died 379 Chrysostome 407 Ambrose 397 all these are said to have had Liturgies or Forms of prayers and the Papists can shew us the copies of them they say But this is nothing to us unless it can be proved that they were used by any but themselves yea and that not voluntarily that might be out of some Ministers sense that they had not gifts fit to pray with but at the command of some Council or of these Bishops But let us hear what our Author saith in Libertas Ecclesiastica pag. 106 107. There are so many Testimonies that St. Chrysostome St. Ambrose and St. Basil were framers of Liturgses that I do not see how any can rationally doubt thereof but that these Liturgies have undergone divers alterations is both apparent and is very reasonable to be imagined And he who shall compare the Greek copy of St. Basil's Liturgy with the Syriack or its Version both which are represented together by Cassander will find them so vastly different from each other that he must either conclude great alterations to have past upon them or that they never were originally the same This is all that he saith of them That Ambrose Basil Chrysostome and others might set themselves in order for reading the Scriptures and compose prayers for their personal use may be true for ought any body can tell Divers Divines that we have known have done the like That divers Ministers might out of a reverence to these persons and distrusting their own gifts use the forms which they had made may be true too We have seen Mr. Shutes Dr. Holdsworths and many others forms of prayer which they ordinarily used before their Sermons And possibly some out of respect to them may have made use of them whether they did what they ought is the question That the Liturgies now extant and that go under their name as they now are to be seen were none of theirs is out of question Liturgias has ownes falsi postulo saith the most learned Lord of Morney de l. Missa cap. 6. Nor was he a person used to speak rashly He chargeth them all for counterfeits and sufficiently proves it He shews that in those Liturgies there were prayers for the dead prayers to the Virgin Mary There is the Hymn called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not known in the Church till more than an hundred years after their time In Chrysostome's the Priest is brought in worshipping