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which_o as_o it_o be_v a_o great_a absurdity_n in_o any_o man_n to_o affirm_v so_o be_v it_o as_o great_a a_o one_o in_o you_o to_o affirm_v that_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n in_o this_o sacrament_n shall_v not_o be_v convert_v though_o the_o material_a part_n shall_v remain_v for_o as_o the_o only_a change_n of_o the_o form_n in_o all_o natural_a conversion_n be_v sufficient_a to_o verify_v that_o this_o thing_n be_v change_v into_o that_o for_o example_n fire_n into_o water_n so_o may_v it_o be_v in_o this_o for_o as_o much_o as_o pertain_v to_o the_o truth_n of_o that_o manner_n of_o speak_v which_o i_o only_o urge_v in_o durand_n defence_n not_o that_o i_o allow_v his_o doctrine_n for_o this_o be_v his_o very_a reason_n why_o he_o do_v hold_v that_o opinion_n because_o he_o think_v it_o sufficient_a to_o verify_v not_o only_o the_o real_a presence_n but_o even_a transubstantiation_n also_o which_o very_o word_n he_o use_v in_o another_o place_n for_o make_v answer_n to_o a_o 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brag_v for_o from_o the_o time_n you_o have_v begin_v to_o be_v against_o it_o you_o be_v not_o of_o it_o and_o so_o much_o for_o that_o 18._o now_o for_o these_o point_n of_o doctrine_n by_o you_o name_v wherein_o you_o agree_v with_o we_o and_o which_o you_o have_v no_o succession_n of_o your_o own_o you_o can_v have_v it_o by_o any_o other_o mean_v but_o by_o and_o from_o we_o which_o therefore_o be_v we_o and_o not_o you_o we_o do_v not_o question_v you_o for_o your_o antiquity_n and_o universality_n but_o for_o these_o other_o point_n wherein_o you_o disagree_v as_o when_o you_o deny_v the_o doctrine_n declare_v by_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n when_o you_o deny_v our_o seven_o sacrament_n deny_v the_o truth_n of_o one_o of_o these_o two_o sacrament_n to_o wit_v the_o real_a presence_n of_o our_o sauiour_n body_n &_o blood_n &_o necessity_n &_o efficacy_n of_o the_o other_o to_o wit_n baptism_n deny_v our_o canon_n of_o scripture_n our_o number_n of_o counsel_n our_o tradition_n 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say_v mention_v the_o story_n there_o be_v not_o one_o that_o make_v any_o mention_n of_o change_v the_o church-office_n into_o latin_a upon_o it_o but_o only_o they_o allege_v it_o by_o occasion_n of_o the_o secret_a read_n of_o the_o canon_n of_o the_o mass_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n they_o have_v in_o hand_n 15._o now_o for_o the_o story_n itself_o you_o can_v but_o know_v that_o it_o be_v answer_v by_o bellarmine_n it_o be_v object_v former_o by_o kemnitius_n 12_o bell_n lib._n 2._o the_o miss_n cap._n 12_o his_o answer_n then_o be_v that_o there_o be_v such_o a_o story_n relate_v by_o good_a authority_n in_o pratum_fw-la spiritual_fw-la but_o there_o neither_o the_o bread_n nor_o wine_n be_v transubstantiate_v but_o consume_v by_o fire_n from_o heaven_n nor_o the_o shepherd_n strike_v dead_a but_o only_o lay_v for_o dead_a 24._o hour_n after_o which_o they_o come_v to_o themselves_o again_o which_o be_v neither_o impossible_a nor_o improbable_a now_o for_o these_o three_o 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the_o boy_n come_v to_o learn_v the_o word_n say_v thus_o 196._o prat._n spirit_n cap._n 196._o quoniam_fw-la verò_fw-la quibusdam_fw-la in_o locis_fw-la alta_fw-la voce_fw-la consueverant_fw-la presbyteri_fw-la sancti_fw-la sacrificij_fw-la orationes_fw-la pronunciare_fw-la pveri_fw-la ut_fw-la propius_fw-la astantes_fw-la saepius_fw-la eas_fw-la audiendo_fw-la didicerant_fw-la because_o in_o some_o place_n the_o priest_n be_v wont_a to_o pronounce_v the_o prayer_n of_o the_o holy_a sacrifice_n with_o a_o loud_a voice_n the_o boy_n as_o stand_v near_o by_o often_o hear_v have_v learn_v they_o loe_o sir_n humphrey_n it_o be_v but_o in_o some_o place_n that_o they_o do_v say_v those_o prayer_n aloud_o so_o that_o withal_o this_o labour_n you_o have_v prove_v nothing_o but_o against_o yourself_o well_o then_o you_o have_v fail_v in_o the_o proof_n of_o your_o doctrine_n in_o this_o as_o in_o the_o rest_n withal_o the_o corruption_n and_o trick_n you_o can_v use_v let_v we_o see_v what_o you_o do_v in_o the_o next_o §._o 7._o worship_n of_o image_n 1._o this_o 7._o §_o of_o image-worshipp_a our_o knight_n begin_v after_o his_o ordinary_a manner_n with_o a_o article_n as_o he_o call_v it_o of_o our_o roman_a creed_n wherein_o we_o profess_v that_o the_o image_n of_o christ_n our_o lady_n and_o the_o saint_n be_v to_o be_v have_v and_o retain_v and_o that_o due_a honour_n and_o veneration_n be_v to_o be_v yield_v unto_o they_o and_o then_o bring_v the_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n 25._o sess_n 25._o for_o the_o same_o point_n in_o these_o word_n we_o teach_v that_o the_o image_n of_o christ_n the_o virgin_n mother_n of_o god_n and_o other_o saint_n be_v chief_o in_o church_n to_o be_v have_v and_o retain_v and_o that_o due_a honour_n and_o worship_n be_v to_o be_v give_v they_o which_o decree_n he_o may_v have_v translate_v a_o little_a better_o and_o more_o clear_o by_o say_v that_o those_o image_n be_v to_o be_v have_v and_o retain_v especial_o in_o church_n the_o latin_a word_n be_v praesertim_fw-la and_o his_o translate_n thereof_o chief_o and_o place_v it_o so_o odd_o give_v cause_n to_o think_v he_o have_v a_o evil_a meaning_n therein_o as_o if_o he_o will_v have_v his_o reader_n think_v that_o the_o council_n teach_v that_o these_o image_n be_v the_o chief_a thing_n to_o be_v have_v in_o church_n which_o be_v not_o the_o council'_v meaning_n as_o be_v plain_a the_o word_n be_v very_o clear_a in_o latin_a but_o this_o be_v but_o a_o note_n by_o the_o way_n not_o as_o a_o thing_n that_o i_o stand_v upon_o 2._o this_o our_o doctrine_n of_o image-worship_n he_o do_v absolute_o deny_v and_o condemn_v as_o a_o wicked_a and_o blasphemous_a opinion_n first_o because_o it_o not_o only_o want_v authority_n of_o scripture_n which_o he_o say_v a_o article_n of_o faith_n ought_v to_o have_v but_o because_o the_o scripture_n do_v flat_o and_o plain_o forbid_v it_o and_o in_o the_o margin_n cit_v levit._n 26._o ex._n 20._o deut._n 4._o esay_n 40._o this_o censure_n be_v somewhat_o deep_a sir_n humphrey_n upon_o such_o sleight_n ground_n because_o forsooth_o we_o have_v no_o proof_n of_o scripture_n for_o though_o you_o think_v it_o necessary_a to_o have_v express_a proof_n of_o scripture_n to_o make_v a_o matter_n of_o faith_n yet_o as_o i_o say_v before_o you_o be_v much_o mistake_v wherefore_o you_o ought_v not_o to_o stand_v still_o urge_v it_o in_o such_o manner_n as_o if_o it_o be_v a_o certain_a and_o undoubted_a principle_n yet_o this_o i_o grant_v you_o that_o though_o express_a scripture_n be_v not_o necessary_a to_o make_v a_o matter_n of_o faith_n yet_o if_o you_o have_v express_v scripture_n against_o it_o it_o be_v true_a it_o can_v be_v no_o matter_n of_o faith_n but_o by_o your_o leave_n none_o of_o those_o place_n which_o you_o note_v make_v any_o mention_n of_o image-worship_n but_o idol-worship_n which_o you_o can_v but_o know_v to_o be_v a_o different_a thing_n have_v be_v so_o often_o tell_v it_o as_o you_o have_v be_v by_o we_o therefore_o your_o first_o proof_n fail_v all_o faill_v for_o though_o you_o put_v a_o first_o yet_o i_o see_v no_o second_o and_o so_o much_o for_o that_o 3._o but_o because_o here_o have_v be_v a_o end_n too_o soon_o of_o so_o good_a a_o matter_n you_o tell_v we_o vazq_n say_v all_o image_n be_v forbid_v so_o far_o forth_o as_o they_o be_v dedicate_v to_o adoration_n and_o cornelius_n agrippa_n say_v the_o jew_n do_v abhor_v nothing_o more_o than_o image_n to_o the_o same_o purpose_n you_o allege_v philo_n the_o jew_n speak_v of_o the_o jew_n of_o those_o time_n and_o sir_n edwin_n sand_n of_o the_o jew_n that_o be_v now_o adays_o whereupon_o you_o conclude_v that_o it_o be_v agree_v upon_o on_o both_o side_n that_o the_o jew_n never_o allow_v adoration_n of_o image_n for_o 4000_o year_n and_o from_o thence_o you_o descend_v to_o the_o new_a testament_n wherein_o you_o say_v the_o same_o law_n remain_v because_o it_o be_v moral_a for_o though_o some_o catholic_n teach_v that_o it_o be_v a_o positive_a caeremonial_a law_n yet_o other_o say_v it_o be_v natural_a and_o for_o that_o you_o allege_v bellar._n wherefore_o the_o law_n be_v not_o abrogate_a you_o will_v have_v some_o example_n or_o precept_n in_o the_o gospel_n for_o adoration_n of_o which_o you_o say_v mr._n fisher_n acknowledge_v there_o be_v not_o any_o express_v but_o that_o there_o be_v principle_n which_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n suppose_v convince_v adoration_n to_o be_v lawful_a so_o as_o from_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n say_v you_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n must_v be_v declare_v well_o this_o be_v your_o discourse_n sir_n humphrey_n which_o in_o a_o word_n be_v but_o this_o the_o jew_n may_v not_o have_v nor_o adore_v image_n ergo_fw-la we_o may_v not_o for_o asweare_v whereof_o i_o may_v say_v in_o like_a sort_n the_o jew_n may_v not_o eat_v blood_n nor_o swine_n flesh_n nor_o many_o other_o thing_n ergo_fw-la we_o may_v not_o but_o because_o you_o may_v 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recordandum_fw-la non_fw-la ad_fw-la colendum_fw-la the_o ancient_n have_v the_o picture_n of_o saint_n paint_v or_o carve_v for_o history_n to_o remember_v not_o to_o be_v worship_v this_o it_o may_v be_v be_v it_o you_o will_v be_v at_o but_o i_o answer_v that_o both_o these_o and_o those_o of_o you_o if_o there_o be_v any_o such_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v in_o the_o sense_n of_o his_o whole_a discourse_n to_o wit_n that_o there_o be_v no_o example_n in_o the_o scripture_n or_o father_n of_o such_o idolatrial_a adoration_n as_o he_o speak_v against_o there_o which_o be_v true_a which_o to_o be_v his_o meaning_n i_o shall_v by_o and_o by_o demonstrate_v more_o plain_o now_o for_o the_o last_o word_n to_o wit_n that_o image_n ought_v to_o be_v take_v for_o a_o ornament_n to_o please_v the_o sight_n not_o to_o instruct_v the_o people_n i_o do_v not_o also_o find_v they_o but_o these_o aspiciamus_fw-la picturam_fw-la quasi_fw-la pictura_fw-la sensu_fw-la &_o ratione_fw-la 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it_o be_v for_o you_o i_o can_v here_o omit_v to_o set_v down_o what_o it_o say_v of_o you_o and_o your_o doctrine_n for_o your_o comfort_n to_o those_o that_o use_v the_o word_n speak_v in_o scripture_n against_o idol_n against_o venerable_a image_n anathema_n or_o be_v they_o accurse_v to_o those_o that_o do_v not_o salut_v holy_a &_o venerable_a image_n anathema_n to_o those_o that_o call_v holy_a image_n idol_n anathema_n to_o those_o that_o say_v that_o christian_n come_v to_o image_n as_o to_o god_n anathema_n to_o those_o that_o say_v the_o catholic_a church_n have_v at_o some_o time_n receive_v idolatry_n anathema_n these_o be_v all_o the_o counsel_n word_n &_o curse_n of_o all_o which_o you_o can_v but_o confess_v yourself_o guilty_a &_o you_o can_v insinuate_v as_o if_o the_o council_n be_v rather_o for_o you_o then_o we_o will_v a_o man_n think_v it_o possible_a but_o beside_o whereas_o you_o say_v the_o council_n pretend_v nothing_o but_o a_o civil_a kind_n of_o embrace_v 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the_o word_n colo_fw-la suscipio_fw-la veneror_fw-la &_o adoro_fw-la which_o go_v together_o for_o the_o most_o part_n in_o the_o subscription_n of_o the_o bishop_n in_o the_o council_n though_o among_o man_n it_o will_v be_v count_v a_o poor_a kind_n of_o worship_n or_o respect_v which_o shall_v want_v all_o corporal_a submission_n i_o will_v bring_v you_o most_o plain_a and_o express_v proof_n both_o of_o prostration_n and_o kneel_v by_o 2._o several_a relation_n or_o history_n one_o be_v this_o it_o be_v there_o relate_v how_o when_o the_o relic_n of_o s._n anastasius_n a_o monk_n &_o martyr_n be_v bring_v to_o caesarea_n the_o people_n receive_v they_o with_o great_a devotion_n &_o honour_n only_o one_o great_a lady_n will_v not_o but_o in_o her_o own_o hart_n slight_v they_o whereupon_o the_o saint_n appear_v to_o she_o in_o her_o sleep_n she_o be_v take_v with_o a_o very_a vehement_a pain_n in_o she_o back_o for_o 4._o day_n together_o till_o the_o same_o saint_n appear_v to_o she_o again_o in_o the_o same_o manner_n will_v she_o to_o go_v to_o s._n anastasius_n in_o such_o a_o place_n of_o the_o town_n where_o his_o relic_n &_o picture_n be_v keep_v she_o not_o know_v all_o this_o while_n who_o it_o be_v that_o appear_v unto_o she_o and_o so_o awake_v she_o be_v carry_v thither_o &_o as_o soon_o as_o she_o come_v in_o the_o sight_n of_o the_o picture_n she_o cry_v out_o that_o that_o be_v the_o man_n that_o in_o her_o sleep_n foretell_v she_o the_o misery_n which_o she_o be_v fall_v into_o and_o when_o she_o have_v prostrate_v herself_o upon_o the_o ground_n before_o his_o picture_n and_o weep_v and_o thereby_o appease_v the_o saint_n she_o be_v restore_v to_o her_o former_a health_n the_o other_o story_n be_v of_o s._n mary_n aegyptiaca_n her_o conversion_n &_o the_o occasion_n thereof_o and_o how_o she_o come_v into_o the_o church_n adore_v the_o cross_n &_o picture_n of_o our_o b._n lady_n whereof_o there_o be_v a_o large_a relation_n only_o this_o i_o bring_v for_o my_o purpose_n that_o she_o say_v of_o herself_o that_o upon_o her_o knee_n she_o pray_v before_o the_o picture_n of_o our_o b._n lady_n and_o there_o speak_v unto_o it_o as_o if_o she_o have_v our_o b._n lady_n present_a in_o her_o picture_n which_o her_o miraculous_a conversion_n and_o other_o effect_n which_o follow_v do_v show_v to_o be_v please_v to_o almighty_a god_n these_o 2._o story_n with_o many_o more_o be_v there_o not_o only_o relate_v but_o public_o allow_v and_o approve_v by_o the_o whole_a council_n how_o then_o can_v you_o sir_n humphrey_n say_v that_o the_o council_n pretend_v nothing_o but_o a_o civil_a embrace_n or_o kiss_v without_o any_o corporal_a submission_n to_o image_n what_o great_a submission_n can_v there_o be_v then_o kneel_v and_o prostrate_v one_o self_n upon_o the_o ground_n before_o a_o picture_n and_o speak_v and_o pray_v thereto_o but_o this_o be_v like_o the_o rest_n of_o your_o say_n 14._o now_o for_o valentia_n his_o word_n which_o you_o bring_v as_o if_o he_o do_v allow_v some_o idol-worship_n it_o be_v manifest_a by_o they_o that_o he_o do_v not_o allow_v any_o such_o but_o out_o of_o the_o word_n illicitis_fw-la simulachrorum_fw-la cultibus_fw-la in_o s._n peter_n take_v the_o word_n simulachrum_fw-la in_o a_o good_a sense_n that_o be_v for_o the_o same_o as_o imago_fw-la as_o some_o ancient_a author_n do_v and_o withal_o explicate_v his_o meaning_n in_o the_o use_n thereof_o he_o say_v it_o may_v seem_v to_o be_v gather_v out_o of_o s._n peter_n determine_v the_o word_n simulachrum_fw-la by_o the_o word_n illicitis_fw-la cultibus_fw-la that_o there_o be_v some_o good_a image-worshipp_a which_o argument_n be_v it_o good_a or_o bad_a or_o be_v his_o use_n of_o the_o word_n simulachra_fw-la for_o image_n good_a or_o bad_a it_o be_v all_o one_o for_o the_o matter_n as_o long_o as_o
you_o see_v his_o meaning_n to_o be_v absolute_o to_o condemn_v idol-worship_n and_o approve_v image-worship_n neither_o do_v your_o note_n of_o the_o greek_a word_n in_o the_o margin_n in_o proof_n that_o s._n peter_n speak_v of_o idol-worship_n avail_v you_o for_o val._n speak_v only_o of_o the_o latin_a word_n which_o be_v more_o indifferent_a and_o in_o some_o author_n signify_v the_o same_o that_o imago_fw-la and_o even_o the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d though_o it_o be_v now_o by_o the_o use_n of_o father_n counsel_n and_o doctor_n determine_v to_o signify_v a_o empty_a or_o vain_a image_n of_o a_o thing_n which_o be_v not_o according_a to_o that_o of_o s._n paul_n idolum_fw-la nihil_fw-la est_fw-la in_o mundo_fw-la a_o idol_n be_v nothing_o in_o the_o world_n 7.4_o cor._n 7.4_o yet_o if_o a_o man_n respect_v the_o primitive_a signification_n or_o etymology_n it_o may_v perhaps_o be_v take_v more_o indifferent_o for_o it_o come_v from_o the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d which_o signify_v species_n or_o forma_fw-la the_o seem_a shape_n or_o beauty_n of_o a_o thing_n or_o person_n but_o it_o be_v true_a that_o in_o the_o signification_n of_o word_n we_o must_v follow_v the_o ecclesiastical_a rule_n neither_o do_v i_o allow_v valencia_n his_o use_n of_o the_o word_n simulachrum_fw-la and_o explication_n of_o s._n peter_n text_n or_o even_o his_o argument_n draw_v from_o thence_o though_o the_o point_n of_o doctrine_n which_o he_o defend_v be_v true_a to_o wit_n image-worship_n but_o this_o be_v to_o show_v you_o how_o he_o may_v use_v the_o word_n harmeles_o especial_o declare_v himself_o plain_o by_o other_o word_n though_o for_o you_o to_o stand_v trifle_v &_o contend_v about_o word_n when_o you_o see_v his_o meaning_n be_v a_o sign_n of_o your_o want_n of_o matter_n but_o here_o by_o the_o way_n i_o can_v but_o note_v how_o to_o urge_v the_o matter_n more_o against_o valentia_n you_o run_v yourself_o upon_o the_o rock_n for_o you_o observe_v that_o the_o word_n use_v by_o saint_n peter_n in_o that_o place_n signify_v idol-worship_n not_o image-worship_n wherein_o you_o seem_v plain_o to_o confess_v that_o image-worship_n and_o idol-worship_n and_o consequent_o a_o image_n and_o a_o idol_n be_v not_o all_o one_o whereby_o as_o you_o think_v to_o advantage_v you_o self_n in_o this_o place_n against_o the_o jesuit_n so_o you_o do_v not_o mark_v that_o herein_o you_o contradict_v your_o self_n and_o the_o whole_a currant_n of_o your_o own_o doctor_n who_o chief_a argument_n against_o image_n be_v certain_a place_n of_o scripture_n against_o idol_n which_o you_o also_o bring_v before_o for_o if_o a_o image_n &_o a_o idol_n be_v not_o all_o one_o then_o be_v all_o your_o argument_n nothing_o worth_a or_o if_o they_o be_v then_o be_v valentia_n argument_n good_a choose_v which_o you_o will_n and_o therefore_o if_o you_o cast_v up_o your_o count_n aright_o you_o will_v find_v you_o have_v lose_v more_o than_o you_o have_v gain_v by_o this_o citation_n of_o valencia_n 15._o a_o five_o point_n of_o uncertainty_n you_o deliver_v in_o these_o word_n concern_v the_o two_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n and_o the_o eucharist_n it_o be_v most_o evident_a say_v bellarmine_n but_o concern_v the_o rest_n of_o the_o sacrament_n it_o be_v not_o so_o certain_a and_o out_o of_o canus_n you_o say_v the_o divine_n speak_v so_o uncertaine_o of_o the_o matter_n and_o form_n of_o matrimony_n that_o they_o do_v not_o resolve_v whether_o it_o give_v grace_n or_o no_o thus_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o for_o the_o place_n of_o bellarm._n you_o be_v convince_v before_o of_o manifest_a corruption_n for_o whereas_o bellarm._n say_v it_o be_v certain_a fine_a cap._n 9_o §._o 4._o in_o fine_a but_o not_o so_o manifest_v you_o leave_v out_o not_o manifest_a and_o change_v certain_a into_o not_o certain_a beside_o what_o be_v that_o which_o bellarmine_n say_v be_v not_o manifest_v but_o certain_a that_o these_o two_o be_v sacrament_n the_o rest_n not_o noe_o such_o matter_n sir_n knight_n it_o be_v their_o signification_n which_o he_o speak_v of_o &_o yet_o not_o their_o signification_n of_o grace_n which_o they_o cause_n but_o their_o signify_v of_o the_o passion_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v the_o beginning_n and_o aeternal_a life_n which_o be_v the_o end_n of_o the_o grace_n give_v by_o the_o sacrament_n this_o signification_n he_o say_v be_v certain_a but_o not_o so_o evident_a in_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o sacrament_n for_o canus_n you_o corrupt_v he_o as_o foul_o also_o for_o first_o you_o join_v two_o several_a place_n together_o as_o if_o they_o be_v but_o one_o in_o canus_n himself_o &_o then_o make_v he_o say_v that_o the_o divine_n do_v not_o resolve_v whether_o it_o that_o be_v matrimony_n give_v grace_n or_o no_o which_o be_v most_o flat_o false_a for_o as_o i_o show_v before_o he_o grant_v it_o with_o all_o divine_n to_o be_v proper_o a_o sacrament_n his_o two_o place_n several_o be_v thus_o the_o divine_n speak_v so_o diverse_o of_o the_o matter_n &_o form_n of_o matrimony_n that_o it_o be_v folly_n for_o a_o man_n to_o resolve_v any_o thing_n certain_a this_o be_v one_o whereof_o i_o speak_v more_o before_o &_o show_v that_o his_o meaning_n be_v not_o to_o say_v that_o it_o be_v not_o certain_a whither_o it_o be_v a_o sacrament_n or_o not_o or_o whither_o it_o have_v a_o matter_n and_o form_n 4._o cap._n 9_o §._o 4._o for_o that_o i_o show_v to_o be_v most_o certain_a and_o by_o most_o express_a word_n of_o his_o own_o but_o that_o no_o man_n can_v say_v determinate_o which_o be_v the_o matter_n and_o which_o the_o form_n which_o as_o bellarmine_n say_v well_o be_v not_o so_o necessary_a for_o we_o to_o know_v but_o that_o without_o it_o we_o may_v and_o aught_o to_o acknowledge_v a_o true_a sacrament_n it_o be_v enough_o to_o know_v what_o be_v requisite_a for_o celebrate_v a_o true_a sacrament_n and_o what_o those_o thing_n be_v without_o which_o it_o be_v not_o a_o sacrament_n though_o we_o do_v not_o know_v which_o of_o those_o thing_n be_v the_o matter_n &_o which_o the_o form_n for_o example_n if_o a_o priest_n in_o baptism_n use_v true_a water_n and_o the_o right_a word_n he_o do_v administer_v a_o true_a sacrament_n though_o he_o shall_v not_o know_v which_o be_v the_o matter_n and_o which_o the_o form_n nay_o though_o he_o shall_v think_v the_o word_n to_o be_v the_o matter_n and_o water_v the_o form_n though_o the_o clean_a contrary_n be_v truth_n the_o other_o place_n of_o canus_n be_v that_o he_o say_v that_o matrimony_n contract_v without_o a_o priest_n be_v no_o sacrament_n because_o in_o his_o opinion_n the_o word_n which_o the_o priest_n speak_v be_v the_o form_n and_o of_o that_o kind_n of_o matrimony_n he_o consequent_o deni_v it_o to_o give_v grace_n but_o of_o matrimony_n absolute_o and_o as_o it_o be_v use_v in_o the_o catholic_a church_n he_o never_o make_v doubt_n see_v before_o his_o word_n 16._o the_o last_o matter_n of_o uncertainty_n be_v of_o our_o tradition_n which_o you_o say_v you_o be_v uncertain_a whereas_o the_o scripture_n be_v write_v to_o give_v we_o certainty_n for_o this_o say_n you_o allege_v no_o catholic_n true_o nor_o false_o and_o therefore_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v count_v of_o be_v so_o manifest_o false_a for_o whence_o have_v we_o the_o certainty_n of_o the_o very_a scripture_n themselves_o but_o by_o tradition_n and_o much_o more_o of_o the_o sense_n and_o meaning_n of_o the_o scripture_n beside_o as_o i_o have_v often_o say_v and_o show_v this_o your_o prime_a principle_n be_v not_o only_o false_a but_o contrary_a to_o express_v scripture_n and_o contrary_a to_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o all_o father_n which_o the_o reader_n may_v see_v in_o whole_a treatise_n write_v hereof_o wherefore_o to_o come_v to_o a_o end_n of_o this_o your_o section_n of_o certainty_n we_o find_v nothing_o in_o matter_n of_o faith_n uncertain_a in_o the_o catholic_a church_n nothing_o certain_a on_o your_o side_n but_o only_o that_o you_o be_v always_o and_o every_o where_o sir_n humphrey_n line_v of_o the_o 11._o sect._n entitle_v thus_o 11._o chap._n 11._o the_o testimony_n of_o our_o adversary_n touch_v the_o great_a safety_n comfort_n and_o benefit_n of_o the_o soul_n in_o the_o protestant_a faith_n then_o in_o the_o romish_a chapter_n xi_o 1._o from_z certainty_n you_o come_v to_o safety_n whereof_o you_o need_v not_o have_v make_v so_o distinct_a mention_n and_o proof_n it_o follow_v necessary_o and_o manifest_o that_o that_o faith_n which_o be_v most_o certain_a in_o itself_o be_v also_o most_o safe_a for_o man_n to_o follow_v as_o also_o it_o can_v be_v safe_a without_o certainty_n wherefore_o as_o you_o be_v not_o able_a to_o prove_v it_o certain_a in_o your_o former_a
doctrine_n 3._o for_o tradition_n adoration_n of_o image_n saint_n etc._n etc._n all_o be_v answer_v before_o so_o likewise_o his_o communion_n in_o both_o kind_n and_o merit_n of_o good_a work_n but_o for_o that_o which_o he_o say_v that_o he_o acknowledge_v universality_n of_o nation_n and_o people_n not_o to_o be_v a_o mark_n of_o his_o church_n i_o can_v but_o wonder_v at_o it_o for_o what_o be_v this_o but_o even_o in_o plain_a term_n to_o confess_v his_o church_n not_o to_o be_v the_o church_n of_o christ_n 2._o isa_n 2._o isay_n the_o prophet_n describe_v the_o church_n under_o the_o type_n of_o a_o mountain_n say_v that_o all_o nation_n shall_v flow_v unto_o it_o 71._o psal_n 71._o 2._o psal_n 2._o the_o prophet_n david_n describe_v the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n say_v that_o he_o shall_v bear_v sway_n from_o sea_n to_o sea_n â—_o dan._n 2.3_o â—_o that_o god_n will_v give_v he_o nation_n for_o his_o inhaeritance_n and_o the_o bound_n of_o the_o earth_n for_o his_o possession_n 9â—_n apoc._n 7_o 9â—_n daniel_n describe_v the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n like_o a_o mountain_n grow_v from_o a_o little_a stone_n and_o fill_v the_o whole_a earth_n s._n john_n see_v a_o multitude_n which_o no_o man_n can_v reckon_v of_o all_o nation_n and_o tribe_n and_o people_n and_o tongue_n this_o be_v also_o the_o thing_n wherein_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n be_v special_o distinguish_v from_o the_o synagogue_n of_o the_o jew_n that_o that_o pertain_v but_o to_o one_o nation_n this_o to_o all_o the_o nation_n of_o the_o earth_n and_o all_o the_o father_n proclaim_v nothing_o more_o particular_o s._n augustine_n in_o a_o whole_a book_n of_o this_o argument_n against_o the_o donatist_n and_o a_o knight_n to_o come_v and_o tell_v we_o he_o do_v not_o account_v this_o as_o a_o mark_n of_o his_o church_n what_o be_v this_o but_o in_o plain_a term_n to_o acknowledge_v that_o his_o church_n be_v not_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n beside_o i_o will_v know_v what_o he_o have_v mean_v all_o this_o while_n by_o universality_n which_o he_o have_v labour_v to_o prove_v to_o belong_v to_o his_o doctrine_n the_o principal_n thing_n understand_v by_o universality_n when_o we_o take_v it_o for_o a_o note_n of_o the_o church_n be_v the_o universality_n of_o place_n to_o wit_n 16.15_o mar._n 16.15_o diverse_a kingdom_n and_o country_n as_o it_o be_v use_v by_o our_o saviour_n himself_o euntes_fw-la in_o mundum_fw-la universum_fw-la praedicate_fw-la evangelium_fw-la omni_fw-la creaturae_fw-la and_o now_o in_o deny_v this_o mark_n to_o belong_v to_o his_o church_n do_v he_o not_o deny_v it_o to_o belong_v to_o his_o doctrine_n for_o how_o can_v that_o doctrine_n be_v universal_a that_o be_v teach_v by_o a_o few_o and_o in_o a_o corner_n of_o the_o world_n and_o in_o acknowledge_v his_o church_n not_o to_o be_v universal_a do_v he_o not_o acknowledge_v it_o not_o to_o be_v catholic_a for_o be_v not_o catholic_n and_o universal_a all_o one_o as_o all_o man_n know_v in_o this_o word_n then_o he_o have_v grant_v enough_o to_o overthrow_v all_o that_o ever_o he_o have_v say_v or_o can_v say_v of_o his_o church_n 4._o but_o now_o to_o come_v to_o the_o matter_n which_o he_o purpose_v in_o this_o section_n which_o be_v to_o answer_v our_o argument_n that_o it_o be_v safe_a for_o a_o man_n to_o take_v the_o way_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n than_o the_o protestant_n because_o even_a protestant_n agree_v with_o catholic_n in_o this_o that_o they_o may_v be_v save_v in_o their_o religion_n and_o catholic_n deny_v that_o protestant_n can_v be_v save_v this_o argument_n the_o knight_n deni_v be_v sorry_a for_o his_o part_n that_o a_o charitable_a opinion_n on_o the_o protestant_n part_n shall_v give_v any_o romanist_n occasion_n to_o live_v and_o die_v in_o the_o bosom_n of_o that_o church_n therefore_o he_o interprete_v that_o say_n to_o be_v mean_v only_o of_o such_o as_o by_o invincible_a ignorance_n resign_v their_o eyesight_n to_o their_o priest_n &_o pastor_n which_o man_n if_o they_o hold_v the_o article_n of_o christian_a belief_n without_o opposition_n to_o any_o ground_n of_o religion_n and_o live_v for_o outward_a thing_n in_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n such_o man_n he_o say_v live_v papist_n and_o die_a protestant_n in_o the_o principal_a foundation_n of_o faith_n may_v find_v mercy_n because_o they_o do_v it_o ignorant_o but_o such_o papist_n he_o say_v as_o live_v in_o state_n and_o kingdom_n where_o they_o may_v come_v to_o knowledge_n of_o the_o truth_n and_o will_v not_o these_o man_n die_v in_o their_o sin_n though_o yet_o again_o he_o a_o little_a temper_n the_o rigour_n of_o this_o doom_n in_o say_v he_o will_v not_o judge_v their_o person_n though_o he_o pronounce_v their_o doctrine_n so_o damnable_a as_o that_o if_o he_o have_v 10000_o soul_n he_o will_v not_o venture_v one_o of_o they_o in_o the_o roman_a faith_n and_o church_n for_o which_o he_o take_v god_n and_o his_o holy_a angel_n to_o witness_v and_o then_o conclude_v very_o pathetical_o thus_o farr_n be_v it_o from_o the_o thought_n of_o good_a man_n to_o think_v the_o point_n in_o controversy_n betwixt_o they_o and_o we_o to_o be_v of_o a_o inferior_a alloy_n as_o that_o a_o man_n may_v resolve_v this_o way_n or_o that_o without_o peril_n of_o his_o salvation_n and_o then_o tell_v we_o the_o fresh_a bleed_a wound_n and_o suffering_n of_o holy_a man_n and_o martyr_n in_o his_o church_n do_v sufficient_o witness_v the_o great_a danger_n in_o our_o religion_n and_o difference_n betwixt_o we_o and_o that_o we_o may_v know_v that_o the_o best_a learned_a of_o his_o church_n be_v far_o from_o grant_v salvation_n to_o any_o papist_n live_v and_o die_v in_o the_o profession_n of_o the_o now_o roman_a faith_n he_o bring_v a_o say_n of_o whitaker_n who_o will_v have_v we_o take_v it_o upon_o his_o word_n that_o in_o heaven_n there_o be_v not_o one_o jesuit_n nor_o one_o papist_n to_o be_v find_v this_o be_v the_o knight_n whole_a discourse_n in_o the_o second_o part_n of_o his_o section_n 5._o whereby_o upon_o examination_n it_o will_v appear_v he_o be_v as_o well_o red_a in_o his_o own_o author_n as_o in_o our_o schoolman_n and_o father_n and_o to_o begin_v with_o he_o he_o be_v sorry_a the_o protestant_n charitable_a opinion_n shall_v give_v any_o man_n encouradgment_n to_o die_v a_o papist_n but_o by_o his_o leave_n this_o opinion_n do_v not_o proceed_v from_o charity_n but_o from_o evidence_n of_o truth_n as_o all_o testimony_n from_o a_o enemy_n do_v but_o whether_o it_o be_v charity_n or_o not_o this_o knight_n will_v none_o of_o this_o charity_n and_o therefore_o he_o say_v that_o this_o be_v mean_v only_o of_o some_o ignorant_a people_n who_o ignorance_n may_v excuse_v they_o but_o yet_o even_o these_o man_n though_o they_o live_v papist_n they_o must_v die_v protestant_n in_o the_o principal_a foundation_n of_o that_o faith_n this_o be_v good_a stuff_n papist_n may_v be_v save_v in_o their_o religion_n but_o yet_o they_o must_v die_v protestant_n very_o right_a sir_n humphrey_n where_o have_v you_o learn_v this_o theology_n that_o a_o man_n may_v be_v save_v in_o one_o religion_n yet_o so_o as_o he_o must_v die_v in_o another_o this_o be_v a_o new_a conceit_n never_o hear_v of_o before_o that_o a_o man_n may_v be_v save_v in_o a_o religion_n but_o so_o as_o not_o to_o die_v of_o it_o and_o here_o a_o man_n may_v ask_v at_o great_a many_o pretty_a question_n as_o what_o foundation_n of_o faith_n that_o be_v that_o they_o must_v die_v in_o what_o article_n of_o apostolic_a and_o christian_a belief_n what_o ground_n these_o be_v that_o may_v not_o be_v oppose_v all_o these_o have_v be_v necessary_a thing_n to_o be_v express_v in_o such_o a_o singular_a treatise_n as_o this_o of_o you_o which_o must_v forsooth_o bear_v the_o name_n of_o a_o safe_a way_n lead_v man_n to_o true_a faith_n and_o why_o also_o a_o man_n that_o hold_v the_o apostle_n creed_n and_o other_o thing_n common_a to_o catholic_n and_o protestant_n not_o forsake_v the_o catholic_a church_n and_o indeed_o not_o know_v any_o thing_n else_o for_o here_o you_o speak_v of_o a_o catholic_a in_o a_o catholic_a country_n where_o it_o be_v to_o be_v suppose_v the_o name_n of_o a_o protestant_n or_o other_o heretic_n be_v unknown_a why_o i_o say_v such_o a_o man_n shall_v be_v say_v to_o die_v a_o protestant_n in_o the_o principal_a point_n of_o his_o faith_n i_o see_v not_o for_o why_o do_v the_o apostle_n creed_n belong_v more_o to_o you_o then_o to_o we_o have_v we_o it_o from_o you_o or_o you_o from_o we_o nay_o if_o i_o will_v stand_v upon_o it_o i_o can_v show_v you_o not_o to_o believe_v a_o right_n in_o any_o one_o article_n thereof_o whereof_o he_o that_o list_v to_o know_v more_o