Plato But if terence were bannisshed for euel doyng alone not for euel sayng when terence were bannisshed men myght folow Platoes speche where it is good thoghe it had ones cummed out of terences pen and he had used it But what is thys to the purpose Can ye proue that the doctrine that cam thorow the popis pen was not hys own but the doctrine of the father of heuen If ye can proue that the pope can iustly say withe Christe the worde whiche ye heare is not myne but my fathers whiche hathe sent me i will also alow the popis doctrine as ye do not because it is hys but becaus it cam from god but foras miche as nether ye no he can proue that hys doctrine cam from god i will take yow bothe for fals Prophetes as i haue don hyther to Herken to me ones as i haue don to yow your sayng is that Platoes learnyng that terence had vsed were not to be cast away when terence were bannisshed thoghe it had cum med thorow terences pen well so beit Wilyam tyndale wrote many bookes where in ar many true and godly sentences and saynges whiche he had taken out of the holy scripture and the hole new testament whiche is the vndouted word of god cam out of hys pen in to our englishe tōg willyam tyndale was bannisshed out of Englond and burnt as an heretike in brabant whether is it welland wisely don or no that hys bookes whiche conteyn so miche godly learnyng and the hole new testament whiche cam thorow hys pen ar for bidden to be red and so bannisshed for an heresi or ij that ye say ar in in hys bookes and for half a dosen fautes that ar in hys translation If it be euel don whi do ye not amend your doyng and whi suffer ye not hys bookes to be red whi blot ye not out the fautes of hys translation and condemne nomore Christis learnyng because it cam thorow W. Tyndalles pen If it be well don that W. Tyndalles bookes and the new Testament of hys translation ar forbidden to be red and ar bannisshed away withe hym because they haue sum fautes or an heresi or ij in them and ar cummed out of hys pen then all the hole doctrine that euer the pope taught withe all hys traditions and bookes whiche ar so full of heresies and superstitiones and haue so litle scripture in them ought to be miche more bannisshed away with the pope and ought to be forbidden to be red then tindalles bookes and the Testament of hys translation ought now to be bannisshed and forbidden Is there any holyer doctrine in the popis law and in hys ceremonies and traditiones then is in the new Testameut of tyndalles translation ar there not as many hereses in the popis bookes as in tyndalles What reson is it then that tyndallis bokes and the new Testament of hys translation shall be bannisshed away withe tyndal and be forbidden to be red and that the popis doctrine and ceremonies withe hys bookes shall not be bannisshed withe the pope but shall be kept still and red in the chirche as a new gospel in the mother tōg that all the hole chirche may under stande his doctrine and learn it when as Christis doctrine must be sayd and song in such a tong as not one among an C. vnderstandethe because as it apperethe that few shuld learn it Whether hathe tyndal now or the pope more fauor shewed vnto hym in Englond tyndall which is bannisshed bothe bodely withe all hys bokes doctrine both good ād bad or the pope whos doctrine bookes ar red alowed after that he is cōmanded of the hiest pour vnder god to be bannisshed out of Englond for his heresi treson If the pope haue not more fauor then Christe hathe in Englonde Why may the popis gospel be red of all mē in English and Christis gospel is forbiddē to be red in ēglish and only a few of gētle and rich mē may rede it The rescuer Christe sayd Doctrina non est mea sed eius qui misit me patris And miche more what so euer is good spokē or used by any mā is of god The hunter The comon heretike catcher is now becumned an open heretik hym self and a minissher of Christis glori a preferrer of mē before god for thus saiethe he What so euer is good spokē or vsed by any mā is myche more of god thē Christis doctrine is He sayeth that the popis ceremonies ād traditiones whiche i write agaynst ar good thē ar they by hys sayng miche more of god thē Christis gospel is And therfore belike he forbad that certayn men shall rede Christis gospel suffereth all that will to rede the popis traditiones whiche he hath of late yeares set out at large interlaced here there wit a pece and a pache of Christis learnyng to purches more autorite vnto thē if that he had thought that Christis learnyng had bene as miche of god as he thought the popis traditiones decretalles decrees clementines he wold as well haue fuffered all mē that wold haue red Christis gospel as well to rede it as he hathe permitted all mē wymē childer that list to rede the popis ceremonies tradiciones decrees dectetal les clementines Now is it cūmedout at leughthe for what caus was there such diligent inqueri made euery quarter for the transgressiō of the popis ceremonies suche paynes of dethe ordened therfore so small inquery litle ponishmēt ordened for the breakyng of the cōmandemētes of Christe Now had Christe nede of the testimoni of Iohā baptist nathānel andre peter to beare hym witnes that he is the son of god whyche if the popis proctour beleued to be true he wolde say that Christis good doctrine were as well and as myche of god as the good doctrine of any man If that thys saynge of gardiner be vn examined and vncumpelled to be recanted as an abominable heresi that Christis doctrine is not so myche of god as any good thyng vsed or spoken by any man is of god then i say that he hathe gotten as they say in cambrydge agrace ab omnibus and a licens to be a papist and an heretik and that no mannis accusation agaynst hym shalbe hearde The rescuer And hym ought we to make author of all good nes were it balaames ass that vttered it If Christ be preachede sayeth saynt Paule be it per contentionem or iudicium let it haue place modo Christus predicetur Looke vpon the trewthe goodnes of the thyng settyng a parte the person that speakethe precheth vttereth executethe or commandethe the same Ne ther was here to fore any man so mad as expellyng a tyrant wold cast away withe hym both that whiche was good and that whiche was euel also The hunter As we ought to make god autor of all goodnes so we ought
Christis cup from the laymen to coniure hally water to beare wilowes and wex candelles to crepe to the cross to hallow chirches vestmētes and chalices to heare Mess Matines and euensong in a strange tong that the hearers vnderstande not to hallow the font and the pascal and litle candelles and fyre to desyre sayntes merites to bryng vs to heuen that one man may deserue remission of sinnes by the receyuyng of the sacrament for an other thes doctrines do ye teache and say that all thes ar good werkes and god is pleased withe thes workes when they ar don and offended when they ar left of and vndon and thus do ye bothe comfor teuel men with your trifles and wonde good men withe dedly feare where none shulde be ye speake thes wordes and doctrines out of your oun hertes and ye can not proue that god bad yow teache thes doctrines that ye teache ther for bothe the pope and yow which be the pergetter of the popes wall ar fals Prophetes Be that is a tru Prophet is sent of god he is sent of god that speakethe the worde of god and hathe the worde of god to shew for hym then seing that your father the wall maker of the popish chirche and yow the pergetter of the same haue not the worde of god to shew for your doctrines yit say they ar good and necessary for the chirche ar bothe false Prophetes then shall it not be a good argumēt to say thys is the doctrine taught of a false Prophete whiche he neuer receyued of god ergo it must be cast away Because now in thys tyme we haue myche to do with mannis traditiones and cererimonies whiche god nether cōmanded nor ordened and ye say that they ar to be holdē in the chirche and i cōtend that they ar to be dryuē out of the chirche let vs se whether i can bryng better resones for the bannishement of mannis doctrines or ye for the mantenance of them Euery doctrine that the heuenly father hathe not ordened must be pulled up by the rootes and cast a way but the ceremonies and traditiones that ye defende did the henenly father neuer orden there fore the ceremonies and traditiones that ye defende must be pulled up by the rootes and cast away If he dyd orden them tell us what boke and chapter they ar writen in I haue once proued that they ar of the popis makyng proue yow now and ye can that they ar of goddis makyng and till that tyme that ye haue proued that they must be pulled up by the rootes and cast away Euery strange doctrine is to be shoned of Christen men and to be cast out of the chirche but euery doctrine is strange whiche is not conteyned in the holy scripture ergo all doctrines that ar not conteyned in the scripture ar to be shoned of Christen men and to be cast out of the chirche But none of thes traditiones ar conteyned in the holy scripture there fore they ar to be shoned of all Christen men and to be casten out of the chirche acordyng vnto the learnyng of saynt Paule whiche sayethe hebrewes the xiii let us not be caried about withe diuers and strange doctrines All thos preceptes ar to be bannisshed out of the chirche where to we ar forbidden to gyue hede but vnto the preceptes of men whiche refuse the truthe ar we forbidden to gyue hede therfore all preceptes of men whiche refuse the truthe ar to be bannisshede out of the chirche But the pope and hys papistes ar fals pro phetes and refuse the truthe ergo all theyr preceptes ceremonies doctrines ar to be bannisshed out of the chirche But the ceremonies and traditiones that ye defende ar the popis commandmentes therfore euen because they ar hys beyng a fals Prophete and not goddis commandementes ar to be cast out of the chirche acordyng to the learnyng of saynt Poul vnto titus in the first chapter which sayeth rebuke them sharply that they may be sound in the faythe not gyvyng hede vnto iewish fables and commandemētes of men whiche refuse the truthe If that we be forbidden in the scripture to kepe the commandemente bothe of our fathers by nature and also by gouernance if they command any thyng concernyng religion that god hathe not commanded moche more ar we forbidden to kepe the commandmentes of them that belong nothyng vnto us if they commande it concernyng religion that god hathe not commanded But we ar forbidden to kepe our fathers commandementes concernyng religion if they command vs any thyng that god hathe not commanded Ezechiel the xx chapter in thes wordes In the commandementes of your fathers walk ye not and kepe ye not theyr iudgmentes walk in my preceptes ande kepe my iudgementes ergo myche more ar we forbidden to kepe the commandementes of them that belong nothyng to vs when they command vs to kepe that god hathe not commanded But the pope hathe nothyng to do with vs ther for we ar forbidden to kep hys commandementes when he commandethe vs that god hathe not commanded be fore but the ceremonies that ye defende ar the commandementes of the pope therfore we ar forbidden of all myghty god to kep them All the doctrines of thos men whiche for theyr false doctrine ar iustly exomunicated ar tobe dryuen away withe the men excomunicatede But the pope for hys false doctrine is first iustly excommunicated of Paule afterwarde of the germanes and laste of our moste noble Prince kyng Henry the eyght ergo hys doctrine which is his must be dryuen a way withe hym and not holdē still as ye say If ye say that Paule hathe not excommunicated hym heare what Paul sayeth in the first chapter of the epistel to the Galathianes if any man preache vn to yow any other thyng thē ye receyued the same be acursed but the pope preacheth other doctrine then the Galathianes learned of Poul for they learned nothyng of Poul but that he had learned of god be fore for the pope teacheth hys owen doctrine and ceremonies which nether Paul nor he receydied of god ther for the pope is acursed and yit shall we hold still hys learnyng All the doctrines ar perilus for mannes soule and ar to be Casten away which when they ar taught make the techers ther of to worship god in vayn but all doctrines whiche ar the cōmandementes of men if they be taught make the teachers ther of to worship god in vayn ergo all the doctrines whiche ar the cōmandementes of mē ar parillous for mannis soul and ar to be casten away but all the doctrines of the pope that i write agaynst and ye defend ar the doctrines and commandmentes of men and only of men and that euel mē ergo they ar perillous for mannis soule and ar to be casten away Now let in different men iuge whether ye haue mo resones of autorite and weyght takē out of the scripture to proue that
lorde In the first of the kynges xxv chapter Abigael lyghted of hyr as and fell on hyr face before Dauid and worshipped on the ground and fel down to hys fete ij of the kynges in the xiiij chapter The woman fell vpon the grounde before Dauid and worshipped hym Psalm lxxxv All the peple whiche thow hast made shall cum and worship before the lorde Esaie lxvi All slesh shall cum to worship be fore mi face sayethe the lorde Apocalypsis v. The xxiiij elders fel before the lam Where Luke sayde thes shall i gyue the if thow wil fal doun and worship before me Matthew sayethe i will gyue the all thys if thow will worship me iij. of the kynges xix chapter I will leue me 7000. whos knees haue not bene bowed before baal By thes places it is playn that to worship before god man or image is to worship god man or the image that the worship is don before But ye knele bow and crepe before the cros it self ergo ye worship the cros it self to kis with religions behauour is to gyue outward worship but ye with religious behauour kis the cros it self ergo ye worship the cross it self But what nede i any other witnes to proue that ye worship the cros then your oun wordes whiche ye syng on good firday whiche ar thes crucem tuam Domine adoramus lorde we worship thy cross Neuer the les ye wold haue as long as ye could make the kyngis highnes and all hys subyectes beleue that ye wold worship before the Cros only and not the cros it selfe But when as ye ar bet with argumentes ye leaue of your dissemblyng and fall ernestly to defend that the cros may be worshipped with reuerent behauour that is with kissyng it knelyng and crepyng to it for ye say that in knelyng and kissyng alone vnderstādyng of the cros is no idolatri And that no vnlearned man in Englond shuld alledge any scripture agaynst yow or shuld percyue that the worshippyng of the cros with crepyng and bowyng to it is contrari to the scripture ye haue theuishly roberously wikkedly deutlyshly stollē that pece of the secunde commandment away whiche forbiddethe to bow or gyue any outword worship vnto images For thus write yow in your new Catechisme whiche ye call lyke a masker as ye be the kyngis booke Thow shalt not haue any grauen image nor any lyknes of any thyng that is in heauen aboue or in earthe benethe or in the water vnder the earthe to the intent to do any godly honour and worship vnto them Thys is your translation and in thys book where in ye examin me ye take away from godly honor bowyngdown fallyng down knelyng an kessyng and suche other outward gestures and say that thes ar not forbidden to be gyuen vnto images but only the inward godly honour is forbidden And that ye myght the more easely bryng the lay peple vnto your opinion ye steal away as i haue sayde a pece of the second commandment for where as ye say only thow shalt gyue no godly honor and worship vnto images meanyng therby the inwarde trust and godly loue and obediēce and that outwarde bowyng knelyng and kissyng ar not forbidden to begyuen vnto images The truthe of the hebrue is openly agaynst yow for thus hathe the Hebrew text both in the Deuteronomi and in Exodo Lo chisstachaue Lahem velo thaauedē the lxx interpretoures made thys text thus in Greke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Saynt Ierom translated the hebrew thus yn to Latin Non adorabis ea neque coles That is thow shalt not gyue outward reuerence to images nether inwarde godly worship vnto thē Leo iude foloweth saynt Ierome and pagnine translatethe the Hebrew text thus Non incuruabis te eis et non colestas That is thow shalt not bow thy self vnto them and thow shalt not worship them And the Greke word for word is thus thow shalt not kis them nether serue them wherforr seynge that ye haue stollen out of the Hebrew text lo thisstachaue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 out of the Greke text Non adorabis out of saynt Ieromis translation Non incuruabis te out of pagnines translation thow shalt not bow thy self vnto them out of the English bible it foloweth that ye ar a shamfup thiefeād haue committed shamful sacriledge or chirche robry and ar so myche more worthy hangyng thē any chirche robber that was hanged in Englond thes C. yeares as the thyng that ye haue stollen is more precious then that the other chirche robbers haue taken out of the chirche in tyme past I gather therfore by the autorites aboue rehersed and by thes last translationes that to worship before an image is to worship an image that to bow to an image ād to kis it is to gyue outward worship vnto it ād that it is cōtrari to the second cōmandmēt to gyue ether inward or outwarde worship to an image then whē as the cros is nothyng but an image ad ye crepe to it kis it ād bow to it ye gyue it outward worship ād to gyue ether owtward or inward worship to an image is idolatri it folowe the that in crepyng to the cros ād bowyng to it ye cōmit playn idolatri opēly forbidden in the second cōmandment Hold ye stil now no popish doctrine cōtrari to the worde of god Now let us cum vnto the sayng of saynt Ierom whiche ye bryng agaydst me It wold haue becumed a learned Bishop to haue brought in a mater of religion the holy scripture ād not a patche of a mannis doctrine ye say that saynte Ierom sayethe that he wold cleuero and not let go the post of the cros til that he purdressed forgiuenes Where sayethe Ierome thys It is lyke that ye neuer red thys in saynt Ierom but ether in the canon law or ellis in sum of your brother papistys workes for ij causes i reken that thes wordes ar ether non of saynt Ieromes or ellis that ye haue mangled them first because ye mangle the scripture ye wil not be aferde to mangle a Doctor and becaus ye shew no place where as Ierom writeth thes wordes the second is becaws i know that Ierom in an other place is of a cleane contrari iudgment And because ye leaue the wepens of the worde of god and feght agaynst me withe the wepens of Doctors i will answer with the sayng of a doctor Saynt Ierom wrytyng vpon the third chapter of Daniel sayethe thes wordes folowyng concernyng the worship of images Siue statuam ut Simmachus siue imaginem auream ut caeteri transtulerunt uoluerimus legere cultores Dei eam adorare non debent Ergo iudices principes seculi qui imperatorum statuas adorant imagines hoc se facere intelligant quod tres pueri facere nolentes placuerunt Deo Et notanda proprietas deos coli imaginem adorari dicunt quod utrunque seruis Dei non conuenit
be added vnto it ād so is the law of the gospel sufficient for Christes chirche and Christes chirch nedeth no other law but it that Christe ordened hys self for hys chirche Further more when as the end of a perfit law of the chirche whiche alone is sufficiend bi it self to order the chirche is to command all thyng that is necessari to saluation to forbid all thyng that is hynderāce to saluation to teache to reproue to correct to instruct to make aman perfit and redy to euery good work and to be saluation vnto all thē that beleve and the law of the gospell cādo all thes thynges what shall we nede to haue any other law in the chirche seinge that thys law conteneth all thyng in it that is necessari for the chirche of Christe and hathe all the poyntes that be long vnto a perfit law whiche ne dethe no other law to be added vnto it Almyghty god told hys son Christe all lawes that was necessari for Christis chirche and Christe taught hys Apostelles all that he heard of hys father ād all that the Appostelles learned of Christe necessari for Christis chirche they and the Euāgelistes haue writen it in the new testamēt whiche is the law of the gospel But the Euāgelistes ād Apostelles haue made no mētion of the popis ceremonies lawes and traditiones therfore they ar not necessari for Christis chirche but the law of the gospel is necessari alone Paul speaketh of thys law of the chirche thes wordes I am not ashamed of the gospel for it is the pour of god to saluation to all that beleue Do i yit still speak far out of reson whē i wold that ōly the law of the gospell shuld be in the chirche Christis religiō cam in to the world bithe worde of god ād not by mānis traditiones ād Christis religione hathe frō the beginning bē vp holdē withe the worde of god and not with mannis traditiones and the Christē religiō is not groūded vpō mannis ordinances thē the religiō of Christe shuld continue and prosper well enoghe as it hathe don frō the beginnyng to thys day if all the popis ceremonies and traditiones were in the depest pit of hell from whēce they cam The ceremonies and traditiones of men haue euer bene hinderance to the true religion whiche thynges caused Christe to say to your brother pharisees manteners of mannis doctrine as ye be Whi break ye the commandement of god for your tradition They worship me in vayn techyng the doctrines which ar the preceptes of man then how far speake yow out of reson to say that the popis traditiones ar necessare for Christis chirche and to meane that Christe had nede of the popis traditiones and lawes to ruel hys chirche with all and to promote hys honor and to purches autorite vnto hys Sacramentes Where as ye reson that i seme to alow all thos ceremonies that i write not agaynst and only disalow them that i write agaynst i reson with yow agayn if i seme to alow althe ceremonies whiche i write not agaynst then if foloweth that ye seme to alow all the popistri ad superstitiones that your conpapist eccius hathe taught with all other Papistes for ye haue not writen agaynst them ye seme to alow that i lay vnto your charge that ye say mes for to hele the frenche pox for mad dogges and meselled swyne that the hallowyng of the font is all ful of blasphemie that no preste nether any man aboue xxj may make an vnlawful vow that ye hold still the stewes that the deuel may haue a place in Englond to be worshipped in that it is agreater offence for a preste to mary them to defyle all the wyues in hys parish euery one after other that ye intend to be aduouterers and horemongers that ye reken it the deuellis seruice to rede Christes worde in Englishe when the prestes rede Omelias Gregorij pape in latin that ye wold forbid Christe to preache if he were in Englond thys day as he was in ie wry if he wold preache in Englishe thos sermones of hys that the Euangelistes wrote in Greke All thes do i lay to your charge in my huntyng of the fox but ye nether answere to them nor examin them nor cōfute them as ye go about to examin answer to and confute other matters that i lay to your charge wherefore by your maner of arguyng which ye ground vpon thys text Qui tacet consentire uidetur ye alow and aproue all thes articles whiche i haue aboue rehersed The rescuer And first he beginnethe with the crepyng to the cros which ceremonie he can in no wyse digest therin he laborethe stoutly from the beginnyng of Gramner to the end of Logik The hunter When as the crepyng to the cross is open idolatri and dedly sin it is to hard meat for my maw to digest if that ye with your companiones whiche haue dronken of the hote wine of fornication of the hore of Babylon wil nedes eat it and with that wine can digest it ye schal digest it alone for me And whether my argumētes whiche i fetch not alone out of Grammer and Logik but also out of the holy scripture ar stronger then ye can confute be made to no purpos orno let other mē iudge which knowethe the scripture and we shall try the mater here after The rescuer For by hys resonyng to declare thys worde worship whiche he doth right worshipfully it were idolatri for the seruant to make curtesi to hys master where in he shuld bow hys kne or the good man to kiss hys wyfe but to knele and to kiss hys superiors hand were by hym foul and filthy abominatione for that were bothe to gether The hunter If that the master and the wyfe had handes and could not fele fete and could not go mouthes and could not speake eares and could not heare noses and could not smell eyes and could not se and were as braynles and soulles as your cross is and so were idoles and therfore forbidden to be worshipped of allmyghty god then if the seruant made curtesi to 〈…〉 idole or the husbande kissed such a wyfe they shuld worship theyr master and wyfe vnalwfully and so commit idolatri But when as a master is a lyuyng creature of god and seruantes ar commanded to honor theyr masters and to obey them and god will be knowen to be in ruelers and that all masters and ruelers haue theyr mastership and autorite of hym the outwarde kissing and knelyng of seruantes whiche ar but tokens of theyr hartes and inwarde obedience to theyr superiors is not forbidden of almyghty god but alowed for the inwarde obedience is greater then the outwarde Curtesi and if he alow the greater he aloweth the less And god commanded men to loue theyr wyues then when as kissyng is the signe or token of loue where the thyng is alowed the token