Fideliâ—as he would haue vs beleeue that Nâ— pronounceth and declareth the right state of all what is in heauen and vpon earth what is Gods and mans spiritual and heauenly naturall right and reasonable c. Belike he thought his bookes should neuer haue been perused by any but of such as are drowned in the drowsie dremes oâ— this fantastical doctrine One More of â—uâ—â—er in â—â—â—ng â—â—wardes dayes and one 〈…〉 of Manchester in this our Quéenes dayes tolde of such vayne and friuoloâ—s matters but they were punished as Lunatikes And whereas your Fidelitas sayth that no such works could be wrought by anye vnlesse the Lord were with him this is as strongly affirmed as the other part is monstrous and vngodly For I praye you examine what are the works that HN. hath so notably brought forth which doth manifest y God is with him His bookes peraduenture you meanâ— What his bookes are and out of what spirit they procéed is easely perceiued A simple wit hauing such a guide could deuise agaynst Christ his doctrine as fine riddles as HN. hath published should carry a more shew of truth then his bookes do For schollers and children are able to confute his follies sufficiently they cary such absurdities with them both against the Scriptures of God and against all common reason and nature The kingdome of Israell shal be set vp again the childreÌ„ of loue shall raigne therin you say but when shall this your prophesie take place you tell vs not In deede Dauid George tolde vs before the like propheâ—y that the true house of Dauid should be erected and the children of loue should raigne therin Why delite you your selues with such speaches For in this worlâ— these thinges according to the letter â—hall not happen but they are spoken to assure vs of the resurrection and to shadow the ioyes of the kingdome of heauen whereby our harts should be lifted vp with expectation of his promise Vitell. BEhold these be the causes wherthrough the lord hath moued me to minister the seruice of loue vnto other wherein I haue sought only the honor of God and the saluation of al people which hope in god and long for his righteousnes Also I haue through the goodnesse of the lord met with certan good willingnons which haue submitted them obediently and faithfully vnto the lord and his gratious word which also haue followed the couÌ„cel of christ to the clensing of their hartes and therin doth their light shine before men wherin they seeke the laude of the lord and the saluation of all meÌ„ Answere WHen you had séene dissention vprores contentioÌ„ c. in the world then the Lord you say moued you to minister the seruice of loue vnto others you toke the aforesayd â—robles as a fit occasion geueÌ„ you to begin your doctrine surely you bewâ—ay your selfe in your speach You thought it was good fishing when the waters were troubled and tooke occasion to teach false doctrine when you saw great broiles and tumults in the world But where you affirme that the Lord moued you to do this â–ª wherby shall we know that this your bare affirmation is true onely because you say so but the holy Ghost hath warned vs not to geue credit to such Ier. 14. ver 14. sayth The Prophetes prophesie lâ—es in my name I haue not sent them nether did I commaund them nether did I speake to them but they prophesie to you a falâ—e vision diuination vanity and deâ—eitfâ—lnes of their own harts Also Eze. 13. ver 3. Wo be to the foolish Prophets that follow their own spirit haue seene nothing We may not beleue euery spirit but try the spirit whether he be of God Iohn 4.1 The Lord moued you not to leue your arte calling and to minister a strange doctrine to the people but the spirit of pride and vaynglory and a desire of singularity puâ—t vp your mind Like as in time past you did as eagerly maintayn other strange monsterous opinions The causes that moued you to spred your doctrine are not sufficient you haue thrust in your selfe into a function and calling nether allowed of god nor ordayned by mâ—n and thiâ— your ministery is disobedience to God and the publick magistrate neither hâ—ue you herein fought the honor of God â–ª saluation of al people as you afâ—irmâ— If you had sought God his honor your voice should publickly haue been heard and not in corners In that you haue met with certayn good willing ones which haue submitted themselues c. therin we beshrew you lament that any simple soules are deceiued by your perswasions and in deede it seemeth some such there are that geue eare to your sugred wordes For the poyson of aspes is vnder youre tongue Psal. 14. Why come you not â—orth to mayntayn such doctrine as you haue taught why proue you not your doctrin by the holy Scripture Why suffer you your schollers to be troubled and imprysoned but for your selfe you are saâ—e inough and when they should render a reason of their hope and faith then they vtterly deny your doctrine It séemeth that such a principle you haue taught theÌ„ to affirme and to deny only keeping their conscience secret Now where you say that your good willing ones or schollers their light hath shone before men wherâ—by you would heare vs in hand that your pupilâ— be men of excellent life as you set them out so do they your life as appeares by their letters so one of you commeÌ„deth and prayseth another anâ— so must you â—éedes do when you want good neighborâ— y best way iâ— to praise your selues Vitell. ALso I haue geuen forth certayn bookes which are translated word for word as neare as we could out of the bokes of HN. and some of them haue come to the hands of enuyous persoÌ„s which are diuilâ—ed with the deuill either diuelishly minded for they be slaunderers and liâ—rs and also blasphemers whilest they haue â—laâ—phemed thâ— holy Ghost and hiâ— most holy seruice of loue Moreouer they hauâ—â—ayled at â—euyled condemned despised and blasphemed the Lord his elected minister HN. If this come not out of enuy although they say nay then I know no enuyous spirites And although there be many enuiors of the loue and her most holy seruice yet are theâ—e two horryble blasphemers of late rysen vp whose bookes arâ— come to my hands The one is named Steuen Batman the othâ—r I.R. But they might both be named with one name Tertullus if they coÌ„tâ—nue in their lying wherof I must wryte although I haue no pleasure in such workers of wickednes Aunswere THat the bokes of HN. were translated out of Dutch by you we knew before but in distributing them to the Quéenes subiects without any allowance of the magistrate contrary to law therin we tel you you haue not dealt liâ—e a â—rue subiect nor a christiaÌ„ you complayned of disobedience to magistrates but you your selfe are the most disobedient of
you seeke to intrappe God his children to make them be partakers of your manifest impieties but the Lord will preserue his euermore Vitell. MOreouer wheras you writ the life of HN â–ª of his birth you writ mo lyes then truth therefore it appeareth you know not where he was borne neither was he euer at Mâ—ster as you sayd nor any man for him For he was euer against all rebellion and disorder of life and that can be tryed by his works and alo testified yet in Amsterdam for the Rulers permitted him to deale with those sectaries for to see if he could perswade them because they saw the Lord had geuen him wisdome and vnderstanding But euen as it chaunced to our Lord Iesus which was iudged to be a companyon of Publicans and sinners also a wine bibber and a drunkard Euen so do they say of his minister HN. all such things hath hee borne in the patience of Christ c. Answere IN wryting the life of HN. I haue done it by the tâ—stimony of his honest neighboures who knew hun better then you lâ—nger then you and before you knew him Their testimony wil stand for truth although for his crâ—dite sake you wil not beleue it and account it lyes I neuer sayd he was in Munster I affirme that he went about to ayd his brethreÌ„ in Munster as was supposed you say it appeareth by his works that he is against all rebelilion and disorder of life but how doth it appeare by you hiâ— Family to teacâ— a secret doctrine in corners against the law and stir vp the people to imbrace the same â–ª What wisdome and vnderstanding was geuen to him whereof you boast â–ª Little is shewed either in him or you He is a wise man that coÌ„tenteth himself with the simple truth taught in the scriptures anâ— seeketh not by strange deurses to pâ—blisâ— doctrine contrary thâ—runto Wâ—sdome is shewed in humilitie and not iâ— vâ—rne ostentatioâ— and boasting of the spiâ—ite of God and of secret reuelatiâ—â—s wher of your Author is full A wise man delyteth not in singularity neither thinketh speketh nor boasteth of any wisdome in him If God haue bestowed any excellent gifte in man let it appeare to his glory without ostentation â—ou make your compaâ—â—sons vnequall because Christ our Lord vntruely was accused to be a wine bibver a drunkard c. So likewise his minister HN. which he is content to beare in the patience of Christ. What patience is in your Author I know not but if we may discern the patience of the master by his schollâ—rs then I can testifie of many of â—our â—npatience What wordes and blasphemies you haue charged me with bâ— this your libell appeares and whâ—t taunts and vncomely speaches mired with manifest slaunder in your letters appeareth Besides what private letters and threates I haue receaued at your hands of the Family I coulde here declare but that you are so patient as you affirme your HN. is I finde it not The Lord geue vs all patience that in seeking his truth we may imitate his patience which sayd Learn of me c. Vitell. NOw you say he nameth Iohn Caluin Marten Luther the Papistes and the Anabaptistes to be 4. castels whiche is also false For there are no such names mencioned of in all his bookes neither is there anye such bookes of his therefore Adrian Gisling hath tolde you a lye and you haue fortefied iâ— Answere I Sayd in the displeing of the Family that one Adrian Gisling had read in a book called the glasse of righteousnes of 〈◊〉 Castells vnder the same mens names mencioned nowe this man is sure HN. neuer writ any such booke and therefore must needes be a lye I am credibly informed that HN. hath written 27 smale treatises and â—pistles and this man hath seene all as hee sayth but let the thing be true or false the matter is not great the party that told me is liuing and of honest credite and may as well be beleued as you I pray you are there no bookes called the glasse of righteousnes for he compiled ii of that title I neuer saw any of those bookes in deed but if there be no such then HN. hath mocked the Family for he still in his bookes referreth hys reader vnto the same booke called the glasse of righteousnes And in deede I doubt that book doth vtter more of your Aucthors secret doctrine then his smale paÌ„phlets Fewe or none in the Familye haue it that I coulde euer learne if you haue seene all the Authors works then you haue also seene that and you keepe it secret least your Family should not or could not well brooke the doctrine conteined in the same Let the booke be seene and keepe it not hidden it standeth you vpon nowe to let the worlde tast the doctrine which you haue affirmed Princes kingâ—omes afore this tyme should haue imbraced Vitell. MOreouer you sayd he maryed his daughter Mary to a younker that is true but not at EmdeÌ„ also you say that HN. abused a womaÌ„ that is a false report so to report of him for he neuer abused any woman neither taught he any other doctrine concerning the immortality but the doctrine of christ For Christ saiâ—h he that beleeueth in me though he were dead yet should he liue and who so liueth and beleeueth shal neuer dye neither was he accused to the Rulers for any such matter but he was complayned of by certayne enuiouâ— persoÌ„s which affirmed that he was one that taught a strange doctrine and thâ— Maiestrates gaue credite vnto the false witnesses thereupon sought for him and because they founde hym not they delt extreemely with his Family and caried away his goodes Aunswere THat his daughter Mary was maryed to a yonker you affirme Therefore not all are lyes which are by his neighbors reported of him as you sayd before why may not all the rest be true onely you speaking contrary some of these persons were at the mariages which haue testified their knowledge I thinke at that tyme you were not acquainted with HN. nor his doctrine and therefore your bare denyall is onely heresay but these are no great matters to stand vpon you confesse that he could not be found being sought for then was he fled before his accusation was for strange doctrine and not for a woman as you auouch But certeynly If the Magistrates should cary away his goodes â–ª for an accusation of strange doctrine then were they not indifferent neither can I be brought to credit your speach nor thinke so vnreuerently of any Magistrates but why sied he if he were not guilty of any crime In â—mden men know that many Religions had peaceable habitation without gaynsaying of the Magestrat If the spirite of God were so mighty in him as he sayth it is why did he not stay to render a reason of his doctrine before the Magestrate â–ª the perticulers being examined your simple denyall agaynst so many witnesses is
illuminate Elders in the Family sinne not you deny it not but wish y I knew what I sayd you say that they preuayl with God ouer sinne But we deny that any preuayle with God ouer sin otherwise then in the person of Christ. And herein you teach false docâ—rine to the people For your wordes are false that we preuaile with God and Christ ouer sinne Nay we affirme that we preuaile with God by Christ which accepteth vs for his sake and although you acknowledge neuer so much that this is brought to passe by Christ in vs yet we tell you playne that it standeth not with his good will and pleasure so to do but that contynually we should be petitioners to him for grace to keep vnder sinne that sinne raigne not in vs that sinne beare not rule in vs or haue dominion ouer vs as the Scriptures vse to spâ—ake but that we preuayle against sinne so that we extinguish it in our own persons It is a doctrine of Sathan and not froÌ„ the lord In this and the like doctrine doth your Author and you shew a manifest pâ—oofe whence your errors are suckt euen from the Pope who teacheth that we may fulfill the law If it be so then may we be righteous by it and haue no neede of christ Such hereticall and imptous doctrine contrary to the scriptures you teach and therfore your Author and you worthely despysed The Pope in his doctrine of Opera superâ—◠〈◊〉 and you with your doctrine of perfection to be wrought in vs in this life do so extenuat the death and passion of our Lord and Sauyour Christ that the poore oppressed burthened sinner loaden and â—roning vnder the burthen of sinne can finde smal comfort Therfore the church of christ grounded vpon the Prophetes and Apostles Christ Iesus being the chiefe corner stone of this foundation doubt not in truth and humilitie of spirite to acknowledge still iâ— vs while we are in this life a battaile or combat against sinne to striue to fight but not to conquere to tryumph or to preuayle but by faith in Christ in whose person we conquere we tryumph and we preuayle So that to be ouercome or be subdued vnder sin we cannot because we haue a valiant and most victorious conqueror who still imputeth his conquest and victory ours yet so as sinne and the motions therof still remayn in â—s to our great exercise that feeling our wâ—â—knes our want and our need we â—ight in our necessitye haue recâ—â—se vnto our Captayn our Sauyour and delyuerer But that we in our persons should pâ—euayle 〈◊〉 sinne as you affirmed is false wicked and damnable doctrine but such fauour hath falsed with you that you greedely embrace this as though Christ or his Apostles had taught it whereas it is against all the doctrine of Christ and his Apostles and against all examples in the scriptures David sayth 〈…〉 S. Paul sayth Christ Iesus came into y world to saue sinners of y which number I am the greatest if doing our best we must acknowledge our selues vnprofitable seruauntes where is become your doctrine of perfection neuer heard of in Christ his Church our â—umayne state and condition is so lifted vp and stast with pride by your doctrine of perfection that penitent sinners find smal grace in whom you impute scarce hope of saluation except they attayne the perfection on whome shall Christ hys death take place to whome shal the vertue thereof extend if none shal be saued but such as be perfect in whome no sinne resteth or remayneth you take away all comfort from sinners to whome the Gospell belongeth and our onely comfort in distresse the effect wherof by this your doctrine is denied miserably do you herein deceaue your setuâ—s and other They that haue pleasure in sinnâ— are seruaunts to sinne as you affirme but to haue pleasure in sinne that sinn raygne in vs or haue dominion ouer vs continually we affirme that they are markeâ— and tokens not of the children of good but contrary yet we doubt not to â—â—â—irme the remnants the motions lustâ— and roÌ„cupiscence incident to our frayle nature still to lurke in our bodyes notwithstanding we be in the fauour with God and made righteous by Christ his death and passion for so it standeth with his good wil and pleasure that his grace should be made perfect through our weaknes Therefore you with your doctrine of perfection doe extenuate his death as much as in you lyeth We are not in humbling our selues enemies vnto y lord but you by exalting your selues except ye repent will be taken enemies both to God and all good men Your schollers in the Family doe blame vs in their wrytings affirme that we in confessing our imperfections â–ª and sinnes which contynually doe assault vs dayly and hourely We are as they say â–ª Aduocates for sinue and you teaching a perfection are mainteners of righteousnes but more truely may it be sayd of you that you with your perfection are enemies to y grace of God manifest to vs by Christ Iesuâ— our Lord and do thereby blaspheme as much as in you lyeth the glory of hys passion and death appropriate only to sinners you may with the pharasies brag of your perfection and obseruation of the law but we comfort ourselues with these and the lyke sayings of holy Scripture Christ Iesus came into the world to saue sinners So God loued the world that he gaue his onely begotteÌ„ sonne c Behold the lambe of God which taketh away the sinnes of the world c. Vitell. FArther you say they may ioyne with any congregatioÌ„ or Church and liue vnder the obedience of any Maiestrâ—te It is true we are obedient vnto all Maiestrates where wee dwell for â—he peaces cause and obserue their politick ordinances which are to a good protectioÌ„ of their subiectes â—â—d the land but we consent not vnto any thing which is agaynst God or hys commaundements also we accompâ— none vngodly but such aâ— obstiâ—atly blaspheme the Lord hys ordiâ—â—unces and despise his most holy seruice of loue although they be ignoraunt of the waye vnto lyfe For we confesse that there is no man righteousnes vntill the Lord deliuer hym from his vnrighteousnesse and through hys Christ make hym righteous and then may he say that the Lord is hys righteousnes Aunswere THat you may ioyne with any Church c. I did affirme beyng led by many reasons so to do for you perswaded many in Queene Maries raigne to go to Masse your brethren in Flaunders which are of your Family do the lyke you also with vs come to Church and ioyne with vs in praier in â—euing thanks in heâ—ring the worde preached c. Yet hauâ— you priuate conuâ—ntickles and meetings forbidden by the law wherin you shewe not your obedience to the Maiestrates aâ— you affirme but your wilfull stubburnes and frowardnes you ioyne with all to wyne all but more iustly you flatter
AN Answere vnto a wicked infamous Libel made by Christopher Vitel one of the chiefe English Elders of the pretended Family of Loue Maintaining their doctrine carpingly answeringe to certaine pointes of a boke called the displaing of the Fam. Aunswered by I. Rogers AT LONDON Printed by Iohn Daye dwelling ouer Aldersgate Anno. 1579. Cum Priuilegio Regiae Maiestatis To the right honourable Syr Frauncis VValsingham chiefe Secretary vnto the Queenes most excellent Maiesâ—y and of her honorable Councell Grace and Peace in Christ our Lord. HAuing before this set forth a small tretise displaing a sort of men in this our countrey of England imbracing an Author vnder two letters H and N. about sixe monethes agoe I haue receaued since from the same persons sundry letters contayning matter against the doctrine publickly taught in the church of England and answering certain matters contayned in the sayd booke called The displaying of the Family of Loue which answeres some I haue put in print the rest remayn wherof this Libel is one of the chiefest and as the same doth witnesse is made and compiled by one of the chiefe of that sect and the only man which was the occasion that any of HN his doctrine became conuersant with our natiue Countrey people a thing greatly to be lamented The name of the party is Christofer Vitel sometime a Ioyner of London and infected with that infamous doctrine of Airius â—0 yeares agoe â–ª whose credâ—â—e among the pretended Family of Loue is very great and therefore I haue vsed more diligence in answering the same Being Right honorable unboldened to present the same vnto your honor vpoÌ„ vew and tast of your good inclination towardâ—s the true Church of Christ and the purging out of the same all disorders and discords that therin groweth or which blemisheth that beloued bride as much as in your honor lyeth And if herein I shall seeme ouer bold or presumptuous considering my rude and vnlearned capacity I haue many examples which may serue for my excuse For where should men publishing error seeke defence but vnder the name and protection of such as through the Lords dispensatioÌ„ and gift of singular wit doe vnderstand falshood at the first sight and haue authoritie to correct the same and hate error and corruption of a zeale to the glory of god and a care of true Religion and by rate goodnes of nature doe loue the truth and also sufficiently adorned with corage to defend the same Accept therefore most honorable these my rude labors in â—â—norable part and geue iudgement where trueth lyeth Accept my serâ—iceable hart to further the glory of christ his church and not the simple vtterance and smal skil with les learning as by the handling appeareth Also consider the prouideÌ„ce of our God which ruleth his childreÌ„ by his beck and hath appointed your honor as a speciall Patrone in his Church to heare the griefe and gronings thereof and to vnderstand and see that truth be not defaced troden downe or spurned at by heretickes or wicked Atheistes which the mixed Church is too too full of And as the Lord hath made your honor to feele the sweetnes of his sonne our Sauiour So I am perswaded that you bende your singular care and deep consideration that this our countrey of England might be free from hereticks deprauers of Christ his glory And if it might please your honor to consider the root and ground froÌ„ whence this strange doctrin grew the practises and meanes by which it is maintained and supported And by this litle sayd by me consider with all what might be sayd against this doctrine of H N. by men of knowledge and skill And finding the roote nothing els but singularitie ambition pride and carnall liberty The shore and pillers that vphold it wrong application of the holy Scriptures counterfaite shewes of piety c. your honor shall perceiue I dout not how litle true reason these men haue or sound argument to proue the particulars of their doctrine the body and substance being found in deede but a lumpe of olde worne heresies newly hatcht by H N. Fidelitas and â—lidad men come out of the cloudes as they would haue the world beleeue And as this doctrine hath increased and spred it selfe in many shires of this Realme So if I should declare what euent doth follow in many places it were scarce credible The fountaine or foundation thereof is the opinion that these men haue that they keepe the law of God in euery point as he requyreth â—er of commeth their doctrine of perfection attayned vnto in this life and as they tearme it the beginning of immortality then being made perfecte they imagine themselues to be Godded with God or incorporate to God I will vse their own tearmes with whom God in one being of his spirit is hommisied or become man. Now hauing once planted this doctrine what Sathan can worke with this perswasion is easily perceiued For when this doctrine is once beleeued that their Elders caÌ„not sinne and whatsoeuer they commit it cannot be sinne because they are guyded by the spirite And when all feare to offend or conscience of sinne is excluded to all boldnes and liberty to liue after our liking a very window is opened As there is no reason to maintayn this nor truth to vphold this So it is very necessary that the simple people should be warned to beware of this so suttle a doctrine which they like very well of because their teachers and Elders vnder preteÌ„ce of plausible precepts delyuered to the simple at the first taste of a godly life which asore any thing they must imbrace with many shewes of mortificatioÌ„ TheÌ„ must they grow to the manly oldnes in the loue which is that perfection which they dreame of But the secret part of their doctrine is hid from the most parte And all their bookes are not made coÌ„mon to all as containing to strong meate for weake stomaches therfore their glas of righteousnes few must looke into least their whole vanity and corruption should be espyed That booke therefore is a rare birde among this Family And this suttlety doth Sathan worke to deceaue the simple to keep certaine secret misteries and doctrine to worke admiration in the hartes of deceaued people Right honorable I haue set downe this part of their doctrine as a tast what other matters they maintayne by perusing this small treatâ—se shall easely be espied how their chiefe Elder HN. is exalted and called a Prophet and that his prophesies shal be proued true and also they account of HN. in office to be a priest and say that through his priestes office God will receaue all men to mercy so that our only Lord Sauiour is smally accounted of his offices are bestowed vpon HN. These thinges are too too absurd Right honorable and worthy to be buryed in silence had not SathaÌ„ raysed vp his impes to trouble his Church with these blasphemies agaynst which I
all others And some of those bookes haue come into my hands whom you tearme enuious and diuelled with the diuell Strange Doctrine must néedes haue strange tearmes Your iudgement of me and master Batman we wil only answere with this saying The Lord geue you a better minde and a more modest spirite I would you were as free from heresies and false doctrine as we are from a diuilish mind You affirme we haue blasphemed the holy Ghost and his elect minister HN. Here is sharpe iudgement and such as should not be in any of Christ his church this doth well become you â—lders in HN. his Family Surely if there were no other matter in y woâ—ld to discerne your doctrine by your own poysoned words would bewrap your spirit of what housholde you are of The childreÌ„ of God do know that you are herein manifest and wicked liars but you haue no pleasure in such workers of wickednes and no maruayle being come to that perfection that you are we poore sinners are despised in your sight but our hope is in the lord Iesus who doth not despise sinners but for vs he shed his bloud and for you which are so righteous in whom no motion of sinne can be found I doubt doth this saying appertayne I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance Vitell. THis blasphemous Bateman with his slauÌ„dering and lying blasphemeth the holy ghost For he nameth the Familye of Loue a cormorant â—owle and an hereticall sect whereas notwithstanding there is no Catholick Church nor comminalâ—ye of Saintes but the Familye of Loue and therein he condeÌ„neth the holy scripture the law the Prophâ—ts and also Christ and his Apostles â— moreouer he sayth that the Lord his elected Minister HN. is of seede of sectaries whereas his doctrine is altogether agaynst all sectaryes Aunswere TO Follow a little of your Rethorick you forget both Christianitye and humanitye so intemperate you are in your blasphemous tearmes because Master Bateman calleth your Familye of Loue a cormorant â—owle doth it follow that he is a blasphemer of the holy ghost this is such a consequence as best becomes your schoole and your franticke humors are thereby made knowen to the World. Men would not thinke that such speach should proceede from the â—lders of the Family this were two much â—f your youÌ„g nouices should in their brauâ—es and conâ—iâ—ions vse but you to wright such vngodly and vncomely speach aduisedly it cannot be colored by any shaddow of wordes touching Maister Bateman he is a learned reuâ—rent and godly preacher neither can your vngodly tearmes once blemish neither his person nor his calling I would you did follow that vocation and calling wherein you were once placed no worse then Maister BatemaÌ„ doth his calling in discharge wherof you nor none of your Familye can iustly reprehend him neither in lyfe nor doctrine which is sufficient testimony of his demeanour For iâ— you had any thing to accuse him of you would not conceale it â–ª so bitter are your stomakes as appeareth by your vngodly tearmes Whereas you say that there is no catholicke Church bâ—t the Familye of Loue this is as straâ—nge as your other wordes are horrible and monstrous For where was your Familye before Dauid George or HN. were borne some of your hereâ—ies in déâ—de were maintayned before by Pellagians by â—nabaptistes by Papistes and such lyke but your generall doctrine was neuer patcht together but of late by HN. in Flaunders a place as apt to brede errors as you are to brochâ— them in condemning HN. you woulâ— haue the world beleue that Maister Bateman condemneth the lawe the Prophetes Christ and his Apostles With what impudent face can you aâ—oâ—ch this must 〈◊〉 credit your owne woâ—des and testimonyes onely because you say your doctrine commeth from Sion Christ hath instructed his Church sufficiently to credit no such Fables An other reason you produce that Maister Bateman doth accuse HN. to be of the seede of certaine sectaris and to cleare him thereof you â—ay that his doctrine is altogâ—her agaynst all sectaryes It is the mannâ—r of impious persoâ—â— to flee the â—anies of the facultâ—e they vse as the theese the murtherer thâ— harlot the dronkerd or such lyke they would not be called by those names which viâ—es they imbâ—ace for it is odious vnto theÌ„ so you to clâ—are HN. of partaking with sondry sectes doe affirme that he is agaynâ—t all sectaryes that he as a master oâ— sectaryes might be alone But this aunswere is not sufficient to cleare HN. to be voyd of heresis and sectes â—t were expedieÌ„â— sor his purgaâ—ion that he should publish vnto the world if he dealt playnely a boke to approue his calling and shew vs in plaine speach that his doctrine is sound and agreeing vnto the scriptures otherwise he may deceaue irroneous heads such as you are but God his children I hope will take heede of your â—ollyes Vitell. NOw euen lyke as the forenamed Bateman hath slaundered HN. euen so doe you also I. R. For you say that HN. was thought to be the chiefe of Dauid Georges sect after his death and so you doe slaunder him by presupposing for I know they be false imagiâ—â—tions all what you imagine of him for you dispise him because he sayth he is a Propheâ— sent of god But the tyme may come that you shâ—l â—inde his Propheâ—ie true and although you cannot beleue it yet you ought not to despise it neither ought you to despise the dutch languaâ—e which you count to be rude wheâ—ein the Lord through his Minister â—N hath brought fourth his most holy seruice of loue For I know you neuer counceled with the Lâ—â—d and therefore you know nothing of his seâ—retes Aunswere WHerein I haue slaundered your Aucthor â—N in supposing him to be chiefe of Dauid Georges sect you show no reason to the contrary you affirme that alike we haue slaundered him and I thinke euen so For neither of vs haue slaundered him in deâ—d as â—arre as I can vnderstand to cleare him of accusation you onely say all iâ— false what I haue supposed of him you thinke that is inough among your Familye for your word among theâ— is of some credit but it beâ—oueth you should by substantiall reasons cleare him of such matter as I haue charged him with your bare denyall with vs is not sufficient for the creâ—ite of your Aucthor â–ª you should say somewhat by your silence and bare denyall men doe verely thinke the supposition is very true That he was one of Dauid â—eorges sect I haue laid downe the reasons that moued me so to thinke in a little booke called the displaying of the Familye of Loue amongest other reasons there alledged I set downe certayne articles oâ— the coherence and agreement of doctrine and how lykely they agree together by perusing the same may be perceaued whereunto this man thinkes it sufficient for him to say all is false what I haue imagined agaynst him but
is not enough to seâ—d out your Libelâ— without name and â—ide your seluâ—◠〈…〉 and say our riâ—orous deâ—ling is tâ—â— cause thereof Truelâ— iâ— you would appoâ—nt tyme and place and meete accordingly I burst vndertake to be bound that you should both come goe safely where confereÌ„ce might bring trueth to light if you looke for trueth and require to be satisâ—â—â—d for this wrangling is not so consonant to ChristiaÌ„ pietye â–ª truth â–ª and playne dealing is â—est and none that euer held trueth but was desirous of conference iâ— you refuse it and mutter still among your selues when shall trueth appeare where it is For the loue of God examine these things and take better aduise Vitel. YOu say moreouer that we affirme that the lawe of God may be kept it is true we doe so affirme that they whiâ—h loue God will keepe his commaundementes â—or so sayth Christ he that loueth me will keepe my commaundementes but he that loueth me not will not keepe them Aunswere THen all is not false y I haue collected of you as some of your Familye haue written that the law is possible to be kept you deny not but why you affirme it you yeald small reason only Christ sayth If you keepe my commaundementes c. Touching this matter of the possibilitye of the law I haue aunswered your schollers to their seuerall Epistles sent to me Yet further consider what 〈◊〉 nature of the law is Theâ— lawe causeth wrath Rom. 4 v. 15. The law hath dominion ouer man as long as he liueth Râ—m â— v. â—â— I know not sinne but by the 〈…〉 Actes 15. chap. 10. ver â–ª Why tempt you God to ley a yoke on the disciples neckes which neither our fathers nor we are able to beare marke therefore what is the nature of the law It causeth wrath it hath dominion ouer vs while we liue it bringeth vs to the knowledge of sinne a yoke importable now compare this with our frayle state and condition how by the law the Lord hath made our sinnes knoweÌ„ as appeareth Rom. 11.32 For God hath shut vp all in vnbelieâ—â— that he might haue mercy on all also Gala. 3.22 But the scripture hath concluded all vnder sinne that the promise by the fâ—ith of Iesus Christ shoulde be geuen to them that beleue If by this doctrine we bâ— concluded and shut vp all vnder sinne then it argueth a playne impossibilitye to keepe the law If there were in vs any possibilitye to fulfill the lawe theÌ„ Chriâ—â— our Lord dyed in vaine for he fulfilled the same for vs neither was there any meane found in heauen or earth to pacify the wrath of God and satisfy y law but the death of that immaculate Lambe Christ Iesus For Christ was apoynted to fulfill the law for vs before there was a law geuen for if by our infirmitye the strength of Christ is made perâ—te Cor. 2. chap. 12. vers 9. So contrary if we affirme in vs strength to fulfill the law then is his death extenuatâ— and made oâ— none effect It is no derogatioÌ„ to God that such a law is geuen vs which we cannot keepe but thereby his great mercy and loue towards vs is shewed in sauing vs and delyuering vs from the danger therof by Christ Iesus ouâ— Lord. We reiect not the law but in reuâ—rence imbrace it as a scholemaster to sée our imperfections and send vs to Christ such is the nature of the law such is our weakenes in performing the same neuer was there any that did it only â—achary â—lysabeth are sayd to walke in all the commaundements â—ut how far sine querela coâ—â—m 〈◊〉 without reproose before men But iâ— the Lord should haue entered inâ—o iudgement agaynst them by the dexterity of his law â–ª then must they needâ— haue sayd to vs is nothing due but confusion and shame to thee be honor and glory for euer Now you sâ—e how the law is fulfilled and satiâ—fied in the person of Christ noâ— in our persons but meerely by him so that in Christ and by Christ haue we fulfilled the law because his righteousnes is made ours by grace which we take hold on through faith All those places of holy scripture which commaund the obseruation of the law do therin set before vs marks to leuell at so that we must studye to come as neare them in our life as our mortall state and frayle condition will permit You deceue your selues mightely when by illusion of Sathan you acknowledge that you keep the law in euery condition as it requireth except ye admit that distinctioÌ„ the Libertines doe which affirme nothing to be sinne except we make a conscience thereof before it be committed Much more might be sayd by men of better skill if you require to be satisfied Vitell. FVrthermore you say that we affirme HN. to be the true Prophet of God sent to blow the last trumpâ— of doctrine which shal be bloweÌ„ vpon the earth Marke whâ—t â–ª his works testifie of him and euen so is he whether it be beleued or noâ— But he sayeth not that no man knoweth the true senâ—e of the scripture but he but this I say if any man know the truth he caÌ„not condemn HN. nor his prophesie but much more imbrace it Answere THat HN. was a Prophet you denied not before now you affirme the same but you giue vs a caueat that he is the same that his workes testifie of him what you meane by his works I know not excepte you meane hys bookes which testifie him to be a deceiuer â—â—d an erroneous spirit he seducâ—d by Sathan and you by him But if you meane by woâ—kes some miraculous matter muttered of you in secret corners theÌ„ we tell you plain â—hat neither his bookes nor his works can cleare him of false prophesies and wicked doctrine which you teach the people as appeareth You say if any man know y truth he cannot condemne HN. nor his prophesie but much more imbrace it If you could make this to be beléeued it were somwhat but who will credite your saying being so often takeÌ„ tardy There be many in the worlde which know the truth vndoutedly which neuer heard of HN. nor any doctrine of his â–ª your saying is very monstrous many are with the Lord that haue geuen their liues for the truth and yet neuer knew HN. nor heard of him if none know the truth but such as imbrace â—N and his doctrine then waâ— trueth hidden before he came into the world or writ his bookes such a gift you haue to auouch a manifest vntrueth where all godly Christianes can say the contrary Yet to mayntayne him in his vaine prophesying â–ª you let not to ty trueth to his girdle so that none that knowes trueth can condemne HN. So inuinsible a Patrone you haue with long seeking gotten at last I doe verely thinke for all your great bragge that HN. will be an odious name in the mouthes of god hiâ— children through all England
acknowledge themselues to be felow Elders with the Elder HN. and magnifie his office and calling abouâ— measure and protest with great vehemency that such wonderfull workes as are brought forth through the same HN. could not be wrought unles the Lord God were with him And these strange names of their Elders do maruelously astonish our English people Elidad as I haue learned is an Hebruâ— word and signyfieth dilecâ—us Dei. the beloued of God which is a proper title belonging to our Sauiour Christ. This is my beloued sonne c. And that we generally are in him and by him beloued there is no dout so is be still the beloued And that some of their Elders name themselues Fidelitas so others that belike are not come to so high degree name theÌ„selueâ— Amatores Charitatis It is a world to see how these men delite in such vayne shewes of piety and thinke to get credite by these coloured meanes which to the godly seemeth ridiculous and too too fond And thus much coÌ„cerning the bokes in latin by occasioÌ„ of the Dutch wherin note this Christian Reader that wheras the Italian Pope would haue all in latin this other Pope and dutch Antichrist would haue all in Dutch as a predestinate tongue to open his prophesies and misteries of that Lord. All the quotations of holy scripture that HN. vseth to proue that he is rysen from the dead to iudge the world do proue in deede that Iesus Christ hath rysen from the dead must they therfore auouch HN. his resurrection See good Reader the presumptuous spirite of Sathan so setled in these for â—orne â—dames â–ª that through the eating of that forbidden fruite wherethrough they would become as god that is deiâ—â—ed they are wholy become sathanified or diuilyfied Strange names I confesse but very significant propeâ— for such strange Christians Was not Christ Iesus mightely declared to be God by the resurrection from y dead If this resurrection were the mightyest declaration or argument proofe that Christ was God iudge Christian Reader â–ª if HN. maketh not himself not only God but Christ and so the promised séede And in deede you your selfe Vitell haue affirmed him to be a Prophet before in thiâ— place you cal him a priest geue him also the name of a king and then is he Christ a new Messiaâ— for by his resurrection he maketh him selfe god Such an Antichâ—ist â— thinke should neuer haue beene heard of if that the Children of God had not beene warned in the gospell that many false Christes should come into the world and such dangerous dayâ—s that if it were possible the elect of God should be deceaued But blessed be God whâ— euer is ready to preserue his electe by Christ sâ— that perish in â—ecoiuable wayeâ— they shall not such a care hath the Lord ouer his Now HN. and his â—â—istes office shall appeare where through the Lord will receaue all men O impudent wretâ—hes haue we not a deliuerer euen the Lord Iesus who doth not onely receaue vs but continually protect vs and minister to vs all thinges both heauenly and earthly which are expedient for vs but will you blasphemously open your mouthes that wee shall be receiued by the Priestes office of your HN. No godly Christian can heare this without griefe What â—erogatioÌ„ is this to our merciful Lord and Sauiour that now a wretched man possessed with a lamentable spirite shall take vpon him his office and calling where through we shall be receaued Oh manisefâ—st impietye Oh exeâ—rable iniquitye which no patience can beare Seing you publishe â—uch doctrine in writing with deliberation what doctrine doe you teâ—ch in corners to your Family where no maÌ„â—are open hiâ— mouth agaynst any blasphemy that you doe vtter â–ª In such credâ—â— are you â—â—ept but wo worth y hed that seekes to 〈◊〉 the simple with such horrible doctrine Your 〈◊〉 â—ayd that I know not HN. but as it was sayd to Serinthus the heretique I know him to be the first begotten sonne of SathaÌ„ But the Lord hath geuen his Church the spirite of trueth to direâ—â— them from all such vâ—yne boastes of iniquitye So lykewise O Lord geue thy holy spirit to the simple seduced in y Familye â–ª that they may behold the blasphemyes which their Elders in wickednes doe teach agaynst the son of God Christ Iesus Vitell. FVrthermore you write very vntruly of HN. where you say that no man be he neuer so learned or godly can vnderstand or interpreat the scriptureâ— for I am sure there are no such wordes written by him therfore I must needes say they are lyes and false iudgementes with wrong interpretatioÌ„s almost all what you write of him and of his workes and euen so are most of your interpretationâ— which you alledge of Christ and his Apostles doctrine For if so be they I meane HN. his bookes might be perused of vnparciall Iudges then your iudgement would be found euen lyke their iudgement which coÌ„demned Susanna but the Lord raysed vp Daniell which is the iudgement of God and deliuered the giltles vnto whome we commit our cause For he will iudge vprightly and reward euery one according to his deedes Aunsweâ—e WHat HN. hath pronouÌ„ced of all other mens vnderstaÌ„ding of the scripture I will here agayne set down that the reader may iudge who is in the lye Therefore it is assuredly all false and lyes seducing and deceitfull what the vngodded or vnilluminated men out of the imagination or of their owne knowledge and out of the learnednes of the scriptures bring forth institute preach and teach they preach in deede the letâ—er and the imagination of their knowledges but not the word of the liuing God. And in an oâ—her place â—o diuâ— â–ª codem cap. 〈◊〉 theÌ„ esteme themselues so holy as they will they are a false Christianitye and Diuells sinagogue or schole c. with many other places to lyke effect so that HN. still teacheth his Familye that it is geueÌ„ to the Familye of Loue to vnderstand the secretes thereof Now let the indiffereÌ„t reader iudge whether HN. exempt not all but him and his from the true vnderstanding of the scriptures all men which are not godded with God he tearmeth fleshly minded and earthly in cogitations and intreateth whole chapters of such men he sayth That a fleshly and earthly man out of his naturall and scripture learned vnderstaÌ„ding hath not any sight or knowledge at all thereof he iâ— so vtterly voyd of the same that he cannot vnderstand the smallest title thereof much lesse expound the same according to the trueth to an other c. So that it appeareth pâ—ayne that nono but HN. and his illuminat Elders can vnderstand the samâ— â–ª â—â—ccording to trueth You say if HN. his bookes might be perused of vnpartiall Iudges then should his case be found as innocent as Susanna Those vnparcial Iudgeâ— that you would haue are you and your fellow Elders in the Familye For I doe truely affirme that no
good but forasmuch as your doctrine is false wicked and fantasticall therfore your prayer is corrupte and abhominable and to be despised and all princes that fear the Lord wil become vtter enemies to you â— your doctrine and seek diligently to amend if it be possible your corruptions and I doute not but the Lord hath in his Church men of zealous mindes who will not see the glory of our immortall God nor the death passion and resurrection of Christ Iesus our Lord so defaced darâ—kned and shadowed And that his Church may be purged of such corrupt weedes which spring vp séeking to destroy that good corn which is sowed already O Lord God we humble sinners abiding in the vnity of thy holy Church doe most humbly hartely pray thee eueÌ„ for thy sonne our Sauiour Christ Iesus sake that thou wilt in mâ—rcy looke vpon thy poore afflicted Church and the members thereof that by no malice of Sathan no pretence of collored speach nor no vanity of minde any of thy children be caryed away as straying from thy fould but that O Lord they may agayne be ioyned to thy flock so that so many as pertayne vnto that good shepherd of our soules Christ Iesus may laud and prayse thy name with one voyce and O Lord we most humbly beseech thee to clense thy Church from the filthy dregges of doctrine which wicked meÌ„ through the malice of Sathan haue deuised to disquiet thy peaceable Sion conuert thou them O Lord wée beseech thee mollify their stony hartes which haue set vp a Prophet whome thou O Lord hast not sent let them O Lord behold how farre they haue declyned from thy wayes and followed the doctrine of deceaueable men let them see from whome they haue departed to whom they cleaâ—e fast And although we O Lord by our offences and the manyfold transgressions wherwith we prouoke thy merciâ—ull goodnes who doe know thy will and yet are so slow performerâ— therof wherby thou O Lord doest punish our offences so that wicked men now set vp theÌ„selues against vs accusing vs and that worthely of the breaking of thy holy lawes So O Lord although we haue thus sore prouoked thy goodnes by our offences yet we beseech thee consider thy sonne our Lord and Sauiour whose obedience righteousnes to thy will â–ª thou hast by promise made it ours so that beloÌ„ging to thy sonne we are shadowed vnder his righteousnes and couered vnder his winges in safety from eternall destrucâ—ion But such is thy goodnesse O mercifull God to try thy children here in earth how stedfast we will bid battaâ—le against Sathan and his impes and how constant we will abide therein so that no blast nor inuation of enemies shall I hope shake that foundation of faith that thou hast plâ—nted in vs which we most humbly desire thy maiesty to increase and that we may perseuâ—re and continue in the vnity of thy holy church in this life and after we may inioy tâ—e fruition of thy godly maiâ—stye and sing prâ—yses vnto thee world without end Vitell. O Lord let vs finde grace before thine eyes and heare ouâ— humble sâ—pplication which we make vnto thee in the sorrowfulnesse of our haâ—ts For a broaken hart and a sorrowfull spâ—â—ite wilt thou O Lord not despise â–ª for euen there wilt thou enter 〈◊〉 and therby mâ—â—e thine habitation and sanctifie thy name from genâ—ration tâ—â—enâ—â—â—tio◠〈◊〉 in euerlastingnes It is very true Answere O Lord we bâ—seech thée turne the harts of thesâ— deceaueâ— people and graunt them thy holâ— sâ—irit y they may discern thy truth tauâ—ht in thy holy word and not geue eaâ—e vnto anâ—e which teach coÌ„trary therto ouerthrow their deuices brig to light their deâ—â—â—ts for thy holy names sake That we thy childreÌ„ may reiâ—yce ouer their tâ— uersioÌ„ so together with one voice magnifie praise thy glorious name â–ª and that those straying shâ—â—p may be brought in to thy fold again 〈◊〉 it be thy blesâ—â—d wil Reueale vnto them O Lord we beseech thee the office and death of thy sonne our Lord and Sauiour that they tasting the swetenes thereof may â—orsake the confidence they haue in their perfection and that we may all acknowledge onely Christ Iesus to be perâ—ite and we our selues dust and dung and whatsoeuer is vile let nâ—t Sathan lead theÌ„ captiue but O Lord we besech thee pull them out of the Lyons mouth and conioyne them to thy holy Church out of which they haue wandred ouer long in doctrines of men Let thy strength appeare O Lord and let our weakenes be made open to them let the effect of thy Gospell breake into their hartes of stone that they may tast féele how swâ—ete the Lord is in mercy towardes sinners and how seuere to such as iustify theÌ„selues And if it stand with thy good will pleasure thus to coÌ„uert theÌ„ at the sute of our earnest prayers we shall for the same geue thankes in thy Church euermore But if thy Churche shall haue thereby their tryall made knoweÌ„ to the world herein O Lord kéepe thy children and such as loue thâ— Lord Iesus embrace the ioyfull tidinges of the Gospell in thine owne bosome that they be not led away with any pretences of pietye into error or corruption but defend them as thou hast promised that what pittye a Father hath ouer his childreÌ„ lyke pittye thou O Lord wilt shew vnto theÌ„ which we besech thee graunt vs for thy sonne Iesus Christ his sake to whome with the holy ghost be honor land prayse power and dominion from euerlasting to euerlasting So be it The state and condition of a regenerate man by the rule of holy scripture compared with the state of a regenerat man by the doctrine of HN. in the Familye of Loue. I Being in my creation at the first in most excellent state and happines hauing by diuine prouideÌ„ce in my selfe frée choyse will to choose the good and refuse the euill described by fire and water I willingly and of mine owne accord gaue place to euill and so worthely by iustice brought vpon my selfe the heauy hand of my God and the dexteritye of his law â–ª with maledirioÌ„ cursse where in â— had remained euerlastingly had not the Lord my God in mercy and of his speciall grace beholding my woeâ—â—â—l â—ase without any desert of mine prouided and promised a deliuerer a Sauiour eueÌ„ the Lord Iesus which in â—ulnes of time came whome the Patriarches hoped after whome the Prophets foretold of which died for my sinnes and rose agayne for my iustification who put out the hand writing of the law pronounced agaynst me â—astened it to his crosse who suffered for me y I might raigne with him who left me an example that I should â—ollow his steppes And which is more without coÌ„dition promisâ—d me eternall lyfe which by the onely sacrifice of his death he hath obtayned and by his paynefull
your wordes arâ— no warrantes â–ª you say I dispise him because he aâ—firmeth that he is a Prophet sent of God his person I hate not onely his doctrine and vaine prophesyes I vtterly mislyke and most of all because many of this our natiue countrye of â—ngland are by him and his vayne prophesies deluded and deceaued and being moued with zeale for my brethren and countreymen I haue bent my selfe with such poore sâ—ill as I haue to vtter his follyes and vaintyes there be many learned in Christ his Church farre better ab e to haue written hereof to whose office it properly belongeth to clense the Church being defiled with heresies yet I take y man to be none â–ª of the Church of Christ that thinketh he hath no office in his Church Yf I dislyke him because hâ—â—arth he is a Prophet c. I haue great reason and good warrant so to doe Iere. chap. 23. verse 16. sayth Heare â—ot the wordes of the Prophetes which prophesie vnto you vaâ—itye they speake the 〈◊〉 of their owne â—art and not the 〈◊〉 of the Lord we are also warned by Christ and his Apostles not to geue credit to such vaine Prophets and false teachers Peter Epistle 2. chap. 12. There shall be false teachers among you which priuily shall bring iâ— damnable heresies euen denying the Lord that hath bought theÌ„ with infinite places more Since Christ our Lord asceÌ„ded into heauâ—â—â— office of prophesing â–ª and foretelling of thingeâ— haue ceased in the Church onely the Apostles were 〈◊〉 with the spirite of God and by the power of the same spirite foretold of many thinges that should happenâ— but it ceased 〈◊〉 many haue risen vp and haue prowdly prophessed but they 〈◊〉 ben conâ—â—ned as false Prophetes euen as your HN. 〈◊〉 â—ou say the tyme may come thaâ— I shall â—inde his prophesies true you put the tyme vncertaine but you haue told your Familye in corners as I am 〈◊〉 informed that many of your prophets sayinges should eare thiâ— haue bin fulâ—â—lled touching the publick receiuing of your â—octrine which are proued false and vntrue although I 〈◊〉 beleue it yet I ought not to dispise it you say why I ought to beleue it you render no reason we are forbidden to credite any such as I haue proued In y I ought not to dispise it I pray you shew some cause â— tho vanitye tâ—at be â—ttereth touching â–ª hiâ—â—â—â—ference with almighty God â–ª how the power of God coÌ„passed him â—bout with a 〈…〉 c. and agayne hâ— sayth thâ— being of God gaue forth his sound 〈◊〉 and spake vnto â—e HN. through the spirite of his Loue all thesâ— wordes and sayd 〈◊〉 there was neâ—eâ—â—ny that writ in Christes Church that euer vsed any such vayne and prowde speach I hauâ— sayd y it is requisitâ— that HN. if he will needeâ— haue his new office of a Prophet to be credited that he must worke miracles â–ª which it semeth he doeth as some in your Familye in sadnâ—s haue tould amongest other matters this is auouched that NH is not ignoraunt in any language no not the learned tongues he hath written an â—pistle vnto the Byshops here in â—ngland in latin I thinke he hath his knowledge and learning by some bequest as a legacy also it was affirmed to me of credit that some of the Familye going ouer into Flaunders to him be tould them of all their message and instructions before they spake such markes and notes you geue out to your Familye to establishe your blinde Prophet You say I ought not to dispise the Dutch language wherein the Lord hath broughâ— forth his most holy seruice of Loue. To dispise any language I may not onely in coÌ„parison of other learned tongues I haue sayd it is rude And was there no seruice of God before among other nations but now brought forth in the Dutch tongue I would that there were no more heresies brought forth in the Dutch tongue but onely this of Nâ— but it is knowen to many learned y sundry heresies are written and published in that language to the griefe of God his children You further say that I neuer councelled with the Lord therefore know nothing of his secreates You sat vpon your iudgement seat when you writ this how know you that I neuer couÌ„elled with the Lord to councell with God wée may as we are taught that is in praying and hearing of his most holy word which I hope in the Lord that euer he will guide me with his holy spirite to doe and performe all the dayes of my lyfe as for your secret Reuelations and Prophesyes I am vtterly ignoraunt of they are things proper to your Familye but not to the Church of Christ. Vitel. MOreouer you writ not right where as you call it his Euangeliâ—um Râ—gnâ— yet doth Saint Paule say â—f ouâ— Gospell be â—id it is from them that be lost whole minde the God of this world hath blinded c. For it iâ— not writteÌ„ his and you finde fault with the pooâ—e Family of Loue as though thâ—y dâ—ny it â—iâ—h theiâ— mouth keepe it 〈◊〉 in their haâ—tâ— but you confesse the Lord â–ª 〈◊〉 your mouth and your hart is fâ—ll of bitternes and euen so you deny him with your hart and mouth Aunswere I Haue called a booke which H N. hath published his gospel because it is another and not agreeing with Christ his gospel therfore rightly termed his You would excuse it by saint Paule as though HN. had as good right to wryte and publish a gospel as that shining vessel S. Paul. Whether will you lift vp your prophet so high that with Lucifer he may be cast down as low we are warned not to credite any bringing another gospell he is accursed as sayth the holy ghost there was neuer any godly man since the Apostles time that durst be so presumptuous as intitle any broke and call it a gospell ' therefore your Author hath dealt therin presumptuously and wickedly Now whereas I find fault with the poore Family in affirming denying I would I had not some cause so to doo but where you ad this word poore if it be so you are the cause therof for with your manyfold collections to set out the Authors works you haue in dâ—ede made many an honest wealthy housholder poore as I can testifie and name the parties and you haue beene charged herewith before this time You say moreouer that I confesse the Lord with my mouth deny him with my hart If this be true then am I worthy great reprehention but if it be false then are you worthy the reward of a lyar and slaunderer In deede it is somewhat gréenous vnto you and your patience can scarce beere it that I haue so openly manifested you and your Author yet therin I confesse I haue done nothing but my duety which I owe vnto the church of Christ that the simple may be warned of your suttle snares and deceits wher with