how can you be thought or dare you affirme to haue repeted this error in your entrance into your ministrie when you still pleade for iustifie that calling by the ciuile magistrate when you confesse it repugnant vnto condemned in the Testamet of CHRIST how can you be said to haue repented it when you still reteine it stand administer by yt and ioyne vnto such as still enter that way neither in deed haue you aâ—…ie other calling vnto your ministerie in your Church make it therfore either good or euill lawfull or vnlawfull by the word of God let vs bring it to the triall SPER. I stand not so much by their calling as by the calling of God by whom I am enabled to my ministrie BAR. This is Anabapâ—…isticall to iustifie open transgression by the inward conscience or gyftes might not anie thus vsurpe the ciuile magistrates office also by theiâ—… inward gyftes wisdome knowledg fitness c. but God hath ordeined a lawfull calling to euery lawfull office which may at no haÌ„d be seuered from the office which calling who so wanteth taketh honour to himself to administer c. breaketh the boundes of God vsurpeth You haue no giftes which you haue not receiued of God God knoweth his owne giftes which he hath gyuen to euery one best whom hâ—… seeth meete hath appointed to the ministerie vnto such he alwayes gyueth a lawfull calling vnto the ministerie wherfore you must eyther approue your calling by the word of God or els be held 〈◊〉 vsurper for all your giftes SPER. The BB s. tolerate manie thinges with vs. BAR. They allow nothing but their owne proceedings neither doth the land receiue or alow anie other SPER. I say not allow they may suffer that they allow not BAR. Here is good worke emongst you they tolerate with you you subscribe vnto them thus are you togeather in conspiracie against CHRIST SPER. Will you say that M r. EGERTON Mr. GARDINER are not true ministers of the Gospell because they haue no such calling as you require BAR. I require no other calling then CHRIST enioyneth which calling if they want as I am sure they do I dare affirme that they do not serue Christ in the ministrie of the Gospell all extraordinarie offices callings thervnto being now ceased SPER. All the Churches learned in EVROPE giue vs consent and allow vs for Ministers BAR. But vntill you approue your selues such by the word of God yt will nothing auaile you SPER. Our giftes Doctrines approue our ministrie Did you euer heare M r. EGERTON M r. GARDINER BAR. You still oppose your giftes against God hold the faith in respect of mens persons The meÌ„ you speake of I neuer heard in their ministerie but I know them by their ministerie to be notable Sectories false Teachers SPER. They be men of singuler giftes how can you gyue out this of them know them not neither euer heard them teach BAR. I am taught to know the tree by the fruit a false Minister by his antichristian entrance office administration all which are notably found vppon them vppon you all neither will I say that the one of theÌ„ bought his Benefice or that the other hath bene conuinced of false Doctrines by his owne Auditorye sondry times SPER. The first hath repented that you haue the other but by hearesay they are knowne to be learned men such as teach sound Doctrines BAâ—… My hearesay hath better proofe then your know But how can theis or anie of you teach sound Doctrine sincerely in a false ministerie BALAAM the Pharises SataÌ„ himself had hath as great giftes learning as they or anie of you But if we would come euen to this preaching you boste of I suppose more corrupt Teachers cannot be found in anie age then these they teaching nothing almost truly much lesse sincerely SPER. I teach Christ Iesus very God very man him crucified that truly BAR. I will not presse you with anie Argumentes drawne from your false entrance administracoÌ„n all which vndoubtedly coÌ„uince that you cannot preach CHRIST soundly yet is there no heretike that holdeth not some trueth But this I affirme will approue that you deny the whole anointing of CHRIST in his three Offices of KING PRIEST PROPHET and therfore you deny CHRIST to be come in the flesh cannot preach him soundly I graunt indeed that you preach him crucified in your Sermons Church buffetâ—…d skourged crâ—…wned with thornâ—…s by â—…ayling blasphâ—…ming impriâ—…ning le is faithfull witnesses seruants dayly at all handâ—…s you preach him blindfoulded by drawing a vaile ouer his facâ—… that the pâ—…ople should not see to th'end of his ministerie not one of you either Priest or people as yet knowing what belongeth to a true professioÌ„ a true CoÌ„munion a true Office or a tâ—…ue entrance much lesse to true administration CHRIST crucified you all abhorr you caÌ„not abide his crosse you will not suffer or abide by anie trueth but dayly seeke new cauills distinctions and â—…uasions to hide anie trueth which bringeth dâ—…nger or to auoide the crosse of CHRIST therfore you shall not reigne with him It were an infinite thing to reckon vp the diuerfitie of opinions sectes errors that are found emongst you of the ministrie it being almost an vnpossible thing to finde two of you of one â—…udgment or anie one of you constant to your selues except it be in euill one preaching one Doctrine in one place another the quite contrary in another place yâ—…a some of your chief Teachers haue preached pâ—…linodaÌ„ concerning your ministerie Sacramentes of your Church But I would now know what office these men you speake of or your self do execute SPER. M r. EGERTON is a Doctor Mr. GARDINER my sâ—…lf are pastors BAR. Your Church of England hath no such office as the Teachers Office yt hath no other then Vniuersitie Doctors which are not in anie office or therby Ministers I wene also he hath a dumbe Minister one that cannot preach for his Pastor so that he is a hireling Curat no Christian Teacher As for M r. GARDINER your self you be parish Parsons therfore cannot be held christian Pastors SPER. I deny your Argument it followeth not because they are termed Parsons therfore they are not Pastors BAR. Both the name Office are diuerse therfore not the same SPER. The Parson is called in latine Rector Ecclesiae which name properly agreeth to the Pastor BAR. Your latine name is popish one of the names of blasphemie written vppon the heades of the Beast for CHRIST hath appointed many to the office of gouerning ouerseeing not the Pastor only And therfore this name is not proper to the Pastor SPER. The Pastor should gouerne the Church BAR. But the Pastor is not to gouerne yt alone there are others ioyned in Commission with him therfore he cannot in this maner
shame I purpose not at this time to meddle with your grosse Idolatries it vvere from the purpose an endles worke Let me now shew you how you vvorship the Image of the Beast You worship vse in your worship the constitucoÌ„ns and deuises of these Antichristian Bishopps as your seruice-boke c. SPER. You speake you know not what You know not what the Image of the Beast is BAR. Yes I knowe that speaking Image of the Beast vvhich is set vp in all your Churches euen the humane constitutions of all theis Antichristian BBs vvhich and vvherby you and all your people vvorship This I affirme to you vnto all the world to be that Image of the Beast that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 All deuises of men brought into the vvorship of GOD are Idoles as your â—…pochripha writings in stead of GODS spirituall worship SPER. That is not so how proue you that BAR. I proue it by the second Commandement Thou shalt noâ—… make to thy self anie grauen Image or Idole SPER. Loe you vnderstand not the second Commandement Yt speaketh only of Stockes stones c. BAR. See what a good Teacher you are that vnderstand not the Lawe yet vvould be a Teacher of the Lawe The second CoÌ„mandement is not only vnderstood of worshipping creatures but of all maner false deuised worship when we worship GOD after the deuises of men SPE It is not so you vnderstand not this Commandement GREN. CHRIST himself so expoundeth yt Math. 15. you 〈◊〉 me in vayne teaching doctrines meâ—…s precepts BAR. You are ignorant of theis Doctrines are vnworthie to be â—… Pastor for anie thing I haue seene in you you vnderstand no Scriptures COOP. You haue verie shamefullie peruerted the place to the Corinthes which is spoken of dombe Idoles stockes stones GREN. He vsed not the place of the Corinthes at all but onlie spake according to that Phrase So that if his Doctrine be true the pâ—…ce hath no iniurie COOP. He vsed the place BAR. It is not so I alleadged not the place but onlie spake according to the phrase We are Commaunded to speake with holie wordes and as the words of God COOP. Speake of your conscience whether you meant not to vse the place BAR. I vse not to speake against mie Conscience in or for anie thing I haue told you how â—… ment to vse the place Neither can yt be otherwise collected from mie speach But read you neuer that our Sauiour Christ his Apoâ—…tles haue vsed places in the Prophets Psalmes and otherwise applied them then they were in their Context COOP. Those the Apostle there spake of were the Idolls of the heatheÌ„ and to the heatheÌ„ people and therfore can not be applied to vs. GREN. All Idolls are of the same nature in the same detestatioÌ„ with the Lorde whether they be blockes or stockes or spirituall Idols which are more subtile BAR. I haue shewed your Idolatrie to be grosse enough as the worshipping of Saints Angells keeping holie Dayes holie Eaues vnto them holie fasts holie feasts But yt were a wearines to rip vp your popish Iewish heathenish ministrations COOP. Theis are but rayling foolish wordes GREN. I pray you follow theÌ„ no furder Let vs be no longer ledd away with their cauills and by shifts from our present purpose els we shall conclude of nothing BAR. I pray you then go to yt againe For I am vvearied with them will no more deale with such vnreasonable men COOP. I can no longer stay I must be gonne And so he arose vpp would haue broken of GREN. Wil you openlie declare that you had no purpose to edifie your selues or vs vvherfore then did you come vvill â—…ou concludâ—… of no pointe of Doctrine answeare this ArgumeÌ„t I beseech you Eâ—…ery true minister of the Church must haue election approbation ordination in and of a true Congregation of CHRIST But you haue not sucâ—…â—…lection approbation ordination Therfore you are â—…o true minisâ—…ers of CHRIST COOP. We haue election approbation ordination in a Christian congregation GREN. That is not true For neither haue you a people trulie called gathered vnto CHRIST nether were you chosen and ordeyned by the people but by the Bishop BAR. Here must be noted your vncoÌ„stancie that agree not vnto your self Erwhile you defenâ—…ed your ministrie by your inward calling without anie outward calling and now you iustifie your outward calling But let me not trouble you follow your Argument COOP. I had the peoples acceptation when I was made Minister GREN. The peoples acceptation was but your agreement with them for you wadges COOP. That is not true I could haue mie vvadges vvithout the peoples consent by law GRE. The lawe alloweth a Curate but tenne Pounds by yeare but that vvill not coÌ„tent you you must therfore compovvnd with the people for more BAR. You could not haue the peoples acceptation vvhen you were made minister you had no flocke then GREN. Before you had a flocke M rs Lawson got a lyceÌ„s for you from the Arch-Bishop to preach in that Parish BAR. What office do you exercise in your Church M r. COOPER are you a Pastor COOP. I am no Pastor I am a Doctor BAR. Ther is no such office in your Church Euerie parish is but allowed his parson or vickar endowed Curats or such Doctors are but the Parsons substitutes to help a dumbe or plurified Parson COOP. We haue the Doctors office in our Church BAR. It is euident you haue not GREN. You were made Minister by the B. before you came to your parish by Powles COOP. I was made Minister to a flocke BAR. That could not be seinge you are no ParsoÌ„ You were made minister to anie that would hire you GRE. You are those 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 those wandring starres Iude speaketh of like the Leuite that ran from place to place wher he might get the best wadges COOP. SPER. You falsly applie the Scriptures against vs. we are not those stellae Erraticae Iude speaketh of BAR. Yes in the error of Balaâ—… being powred fourth for wadge How manie parishes haue you beene at runninge from one to an other SPER. COOP. Is it not lawfull for a Minister vpon some occasions to remouâ—… from one Congregation vnto an other GREN. That Minister that forsaketh his flocke is an hireling coÌ„meth but to robbe spoile But you both are placed in and remoued from your flocke without the consent of your flocke And are silenced in your flockes by the Bishopps by whom you vvere made Priests COOP. SPER. We had not our ministerie from the B. but from a congregacoÌ„n GREN. What coÌ„gregatioÌ„ was that wheÌ„ each of you haue had so manie SPER. COOP. What if we were made by a Congregation of Ministers GREN. How can that be can ther be a Pastor of Pastors or a congregation of Pastors You were made Ministers by the BBs and not by anie Christian congregation SPER. COOP. We had
6 MAINTENANCE of his lyuing thâ—…â—… trâ—…e â—…astor 〈◊〉 Therfore a Parish-Parson cannot â—…e called or held a true Pastor EGER. The Antecedent is not true BAR. Let me proue it First you see they haue a diuerse name the one a Parish-Parson th'other a Pastor EGER. No man of knowlegd will now call them Parsons BAR. This is the peculiar proper name belonging to their Office therfore reserued as dounge to be cast in their faces by all haue that knowledg Yea it is an open marke to euerye one that hath knowledg wherby to discerne them from true Pastors â—…he true Pastor will neuer beare the marke Caracte of the Beast of Antichrist EGER. The name is of no moment What shall we call a Parson BAR. A Parson or Baals Pâ—…iest SPER. A Parson is called Rector in latine BAR. And I shewed you the last day that his Romish name was one 〈◊〉 the namâ—…s of 〈◊〉 written vppon the heades of the Beast EGER. The Parson hath sondrie names in the Scripture as an Elder an Ouerâ—…eer a Steward c. BAR. But none of these names do distinguish his office as the name of Pastor doth But if we come to their Office we shall finde it as strange as the name therof SPER. Proue that BAR. If Mr. FOXE say truly the Parsons Office tooke begynning when the Mâ—…tropolitane Bishopps sprong and were as their Baylifes But it is the same Office that was is executed in the Romish Church Therfore not the Pastors Office EGER. It is not the same Office BAR. The self same You take it as they left it as also all the ministrie you haue beside Only you put in new men in those old Offices EGER. The entrance ministration is quiâ—…e changed the Priestes werâ—… Massing Sacrificing Priestes prayed for the dead worshipped Saintes c. so do not we GREN. So do you also your whole worship being changed but oâ—…t of Latine into English EGER. We do not so BAR. We shall hereafter haue occasion to discusse these matters when wâ—… câ—…me to handle your ministration Oâ—…ly wâ—… still finde the Oâ—…fice of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the sâ—…lf 〈◊〉 that then it was and this none know better thâ—…n thâ—…y that haue the giftes of the same Benefices But I will draw an Argumenâ—… from some Doctrine In the Church of Christ there is no ecclesiasticall Office â—…boue the Pastor But in your Church there are sondriâ—… ecâ—…lefiasticall Offâ—…ces abouâ—… the Parson Therfore the Parsons Office is not the Pastors Office EGER. The Apostles Office was aboue the Paâ—…tors Office in the Church of CHRIST BAR. But that was temporarie but for a time we reason not what was but what now is in the Church synce extraordinarie Offices ceased We reade of no Office in the Church of CHRIST aboue the Pastors Office Therfore it cannot be the Office of a Parson EGER. A true Pastor may exercise his Office vnder another ecclesiasticall Office aboue him BAR. God hath instituted no ecclesâ—…asticall Office aâ—…oue him Therfore he may exercise his Office vnder nâ—… ecclesiasticall Office abouâ—… him EGERT I deny the Argument Those thinges are not now simplie vnlawfull which at some times were lawfull BAR. That is verie false All things are now simplie vnlawfull which GREEN are forbidden in the word of GOD as the Leuiticall Priesthoode all extraordinarie ministries now are which yet somtimes were lawfull EGER. Did not sondrye Pastors Ministers exercise their ministrie vnder Diotrâ—…phes BAR. Neuer that I euer heard of But if they had should it therfore be lawfull EGER. But if the Paâ—…tor should execute his Office vnder another ecclesiasticall Office should he therfore be no true Pastor BAR. A true Pastor cannot execute vnder another â—…cclesiasticall Office in the Church of CHRIST Therfore the question is vaine the thing being vnpossible EGER. But if there be anie Office aboue him should he therfore cease to be a Pastor BAR. What so euer ecclesiasticall Office is now aboue the Pastor is Antichristian neither is he a true Pastor that exerciseth his Office vnder such EGER. I deny that BAR. VVhatsoeuer ecciesiasticall Office is not expressed in the TestameÌ„t of CHRIST is Autichristian But there is no mention of anie ecclesiasticall Office to be now aboue the Paâ—…tors Office in the Testament of CHRIST Therfore â—…l such Offices as are aboue the Pastors Office are Antichriâ—…tian EGER. I deny the Maior All ecclesiasticall offices that are aboue the Pastors Office are not Antichristian BAR. You may aswell denie the whole ministrie of the new Testament bring in anie other But thus I proue it CHRIST hath left a perâ—…ect ministrie Therfore nothing may be added vnto it All other Ministries are Antichristian saue that vvhich CHRIST hath left in his Testament But CHRIST hath left no such ministrie as these in his Testament Therfore c. EGER. Though CHRIST hath left a perfect ministerie yet all things that are added vnto it are not ANTICHRISTIAN BAR. Yes all new ministries are ANTICHRISTIAN he of ANTICHRIST that executeth standeth vnder or iustifieth them For he that bringeth in a new ministrie taketh CHRITS Office sitteth in his place is that ANTICHRIST spokeÌ„ of the Apoâ—…tle 2. Thes. 2. and by our Sauiour CHRIST Mat. 24. all that stand vnder such a new deuised ministrie stand vnder ANTICHRIST Mr. SPERIN here would haue denyed the Bishop to be ANTICHRIST But M r. EGERTON willed him neuer to denyâ—… that which they had agreed vppon BAR. Do you hold the faith in respect of mens persons â—…hal no more be trueth then you haue agreed vppon These Doctrines following were holden affirmed by M r. EGERTON in discourse with Mr. GREENVVOOD as M r. BARROVV was writing other Arguments Assertions 1 Eger That the true Church may be vvithout the povver of CHRIST to ceâ—…sure redreâ—…e GREEN I neuer read of anie such Church in the Scriptures CHRIST hath giuen to euerie Church his power to censure redresse EGER. Though we want Discipline yâ—…t we haue the power of CHRIST by the Scepter of his word in Doctrine GREN. By the word Discipline you turne away the whole practise of the Gospel neither are you gouerned by CHRIST his Scepter howsoeuer you may take his word in your mouth 2 EGER. That the name of a Bishop spoken of 1. Tim. 3. is onâ—…y peculiar vnto the Pastor Teacher because it is said verse 2. he must be apâ—… to teach GREN. Though some particular rules in that generall Doctrine be only spoken of the Pastorall Teachers Office yet it is â—…uident by the whole scope of the place that there are also rules gyuen for other Elders which are also called BBs in sondrye places of the Scriptures 3 EGER. That no man may preach the vvord vvithout an externall calling GREEN Giftes of interpretations are sufficient calling to speake of the word in the Congregation in due order place EGER. That is not so 4 EGER. VVe abstaine from Excommunication because
authenticall with vs as yt is with your miserable Auditorie that haue no power or freedome publickly to censure or reproue anie false Doctrines that you publickly deliuer But for the truth proof of these assumptious we still refer you as before we referred you to a furder consideration of that summe of our said conference with somme better heed conscience Where you shall finde these things you now denâ—…e sufficiently proued in effect wholy yeilded vnto by your self For if these your lordes Arch-bishopps Bishopps be agreed vpoÌ„ amongst your selues to be that Antichrist how should that ministerie which is Deriued from them exercised vnder them be held the true ministerie of Christ except the same ministerie may be deriued from and exercised vnder two diuers heades and those so coÌ„trary as Christ Antichrist Now that your whole ministerie is thus deriued held of your Lordes these Arch-Bishopps Bishopps we hope we nâ—…ede not stand to proue neither dare stand you to denie not so mich for breaking the oath of your Caâ—…onicall obedience which you haue sworne vnto them as least you be therfore called before them scilenced depriued imprisoned by them As to the people to whom you stand a Minister they were all by your owne confâ—…ssions immediatlie froÌ„ Idolatrie receaued by constreint into your Church without the preaching of the Gospell goinge before to call them to the Faith or beforâ—… anie Chriâ—…tian voluntarie profession made by them in perticular to witnesse their Faith true conuertion But yt is manifest they all still remaine in the same confusion disorder seruile subiection togeather with you vnto these your Lordes Bishops their Courtes Officers Canons Vnto which people in this estate you for the wage hire of BALAAM are powred forth and administer the Sacraments to them by your Lord Bishop his CoÌ„mandement that in a Doctors Office as you pretend Or els at such times flee touche and hide your self out of the way withdrawing your self froÌ„ their fellowship at such solemnâ—… feastes as this your Easter c. when by the lawes of your Church you were to administer the Communion vnto them Thus you may see your naked deniall nor all the Conning anie of you haue wil not serue to couer mich lesse to cure these Egiptian malignant vlcers that are founde vpon the meÌ„ that haue the marck of the Beast that worship his Image Wherfore we still exhort you in the name feare of God not anie loÌ„ger to striue against the prickes or gnawe your tongue for grief remayninge impâ—…nitent hardened in your vngodly workes But rather whilâ—…st grace is offred to purge your self through vnfâ—…yned repentance in that fountaine which is opened to the house of DAVID for sinne for vncleannes by forsaking your euill wayes Antichristian ministrie and now yet at length taking vp your crosse to ioyne your self vnto the holie armyâ—… of Saintes that war in all faithfull and patient maner vnder the conduct of the Lambe against all the trumpery tyrannye of Antichrist that so you may haue comfort assurance vnto your owne soule Which grace that you may find shew vve shall not cease hartely to praye and by all the meanes we may to procure vnto you In the meane time wishing you so to fare prosper as your soule prospereth and as you walke according to the rule of Gods word HENRY BARROVV IHON GRENEVVOOD Prisoners for the truth of the gospell and wiâ—…nesses against all Antichrists marcked souldiours proceedings In that you receiued our second Letter no soones you are to impute yt to your owne absence that could no sooner be spoken withall by our Messenger who was at your house to deliuer yt you vpon the 18. of the 4. Moneth and at sondrie other times since Written this 5. day of this 5. Moneth To M r. BARROVV Mr. GREENVVOOD MOre truth loue to you c. Because your Letters receiued the 6. of the 5. Moneth hath in it as manie lyes as myne to you to my remembrance hath lynes I thinke it the best course to set them before you to moue in you some remorse except it be with you as the Prophet saith 〈◊〉 impius erubescere 1. That my bare affirmations are held authenticall of my auditorye 2. That it was sufficiently proued the last conference our BB s. were that Antichrist 3. That it was in effect wholy yeilded vnto by me 4 That it is agreed vppon amongst our selues that they be that Antichrist 5 That I haue broken my oath of Canonicall obedience 6. That I haue sworne Canonicall obedience vnto the BB s. 7 That I dare not deny their authoritie for feare of sylence prison c. 8. That the people by our owne confessions were all recâ—…iued by constraint immediatly from Idolatrie into our Church without preaching of the Gospell 9. That all the people remayne still in the same disorder confusioÌ„ c. 10 That I am powred out in the wages of BALAAM 11 That I administer the Sacraments at the L. Bishopps CoÌ„mandement 12 That I hid my self at Easter 13 That I am bound to minister the Lords Supper at Easter 14 That I haue the marke of the Beast 15 That I worship his Image What shalbe thy reward o thou lying tongue c. Without shalbe doggs enchaunters c. and all that loueth makeâ—…h lyes If BARROVV and GREENVVOOD be so voide of grace what should we thincke of that pitifull bande of seduced Schismaticks The Lord giue you repentance Amen 5 of Maye 1590. I. EGERTON To M r. EGERTON Theyr poison as the poison of a Serpent As the deafe Adder sâ—…opping 〈◊〉 eare Psal. 58. THe Lord rebuke SATAN iudge betâ—…ixt vs. This your reprochfull Letter of the 6. of this 5. Moneth we receiued the 10. of the same Moneth We fynde it so full of vanitie vituperie blasphemie as it deserueth none answere or speaking of eyther in regard of the matter conteyned or Author thereof were it not for the satisfying of others to whom these our coÌ„trouersies may come Wherfore as your best profes either to conuince vs or to defend your self haue hitherto bene the naked asâ—…ertions false chardgâ—…s of your owne mouth without aâ—…ie place of Scripture or waight of reason aledged so wheÌ„ we shall make â—…ut a short sudden demonstratioÌ„ of the truth of these Positions which you haue collected out of our Letter and as rashly pronounced lyes we doubt not your present euill estate bad dealing shall as sodenly lye open vnto all men to your self also if you be not of those euill men and imposters the Apostle speaketh of that shall goe forward to the worse seducing being seduced c. Touching your cattologue of lyes wherof you accuse vs we thus through the grace of God shall cleare our selues and shew the truth of as manie as we acknowledge c. The
first Lye you chardge vs with is that your bare affirmations are held authenticall of your auditorye Our answere is That you haue drawen an absolute Proposition from conditionall words We in our Letter reproued you for not adding Doctrine to your lypps some proofe to your assertions saying that except you would haue your owne bare affirmation to be held as authenticall with vs as it is with your miserable auditorie that haue no power or freedome publicklie to censure or reproue anie false Doctrine that you publickly delyuer c. Here is in these words no vntruth be your Doctrines neuer so blasphemous pernitious your Church hath no power presently publickly to cēsure you or them but must ioyne vnto you still in prayer Sacraments vntill their Lord Ordinarie redresse the matter or if he will not they must then swallow all vp how impious soeuer they be Lo◅ke for this lawe in the booke of your aduertisments in the Articles for doctrine preaching Now howe far your Doctrines are authenticall to that woefull people that haue no power in themselues to call them into question to examin trye or censure thē iudge you Yea how Authenticall you would haue your owne bare affirmations esteemed let these your 3. letters shew where you haue not added one reason to proue or disproue anie thinge you affirme or denie but your owne bare word But they must not be so with vs who meane to examin them by the Scriptures before we receiue them The word authenticall peraduenture we had not vsed had not you gyuen occasion in your former letter in these words I trust my affirmation shalbe as authenticall as yours Which presumptuous words you would not haue vsed if you had not thought well of your self and some speciall authoritie to be gyuen to your words As for vs we seeke no credit furder then we speake according to truth neither hold or would haue anie thing held authenticall besides or with the holy word of God The second lye should be that it vvas sufficiently proued in our last Conference that your BBs vvere that Antichrist 2. This we doubt not to affirme you cannot deny but your Bishopps were there proued to vsurpe both Ciuile ecclesiasticall Offices iurisdiction that they hold execute diuers ecclesiasticall Offices of your Church at one time as to be Doctors Pastors Superintendents L. Bishops L. Arch-bishops and these togeather with their Ciuile Offices being Iudges in Courtes Iustices of peace manie LL s. Palatyne all Lords of Parliament states of the land That they vsurpe exercise the whole power of the Church in making ministers in the vse of excommunicatiō hereby confounding commingling the whole order of God all the Ordinances both of Church and Common wealth inue◅t all the Ordinances of CHRIST his Testament It was there shewed and proued that they which presume into CHRISTS place vsurpe his title and offices are those An◅ichrists or that Ant◅christ and that your Bishops vsurpe CHRISTS place in that they take and holde his Bride vnto thē making the whole Church to heare their voice to beare their yoke of their antichristian burdenous tradit◅ōs that they vsurpe CHRIST his titles CHRIST being the only Lord Arch-cheif high Bishop of Bishopps to whom all Bishops shall accompt And therfore these titles are vppon them but the names of blasphemye written vppon the heads of that Beast That they vsurpe CHRISTS Offices in that they take vppon them to rule ouersee so manie Pastors Churches to walke in the middest of the 7. goldē Cādlesticks to giue lawes to the church c. To be short they were proued vnto you to be that Antichrist or those Antichrists for we hope you will not tye the title to the person of one mā only in that they change inuert yea ouerthrowe cast out al the Offices ordinacs which CHRIST hath appointed vnto his Church euē the whole ministerie Testament of CHRIST And haue in place therof brought in set vp their owne new forged antichristian ministerie of Archbishopps L. BB s. Arch-deacons Comissaries Parsons Vickers Curatts Deacons or halfe Priests euen all the horned Cleargie Romishe Officers popish Courts and innuberable enormous Canons Cōstitucōns of Antichrist As also their newe deuised publique Liturgie wherby the whole worship ministracōn of your Church yea vvherby the vvhole word of God is stinted lymited to Eaues Dayes houres to fasts feasts c. vvhat parts shredds therof they will haue read what parts suppressed cast out c. Now if all these euident concurring peremptorie marks do not manifestly proue them to be that those Antichrists euen that abhomination of desolation standing in the holy place let him that readeth consider And for your furder assurance let vs now ad vnto their barbarous hauocke their dayly beastlike crueltye tyrannie persecution blasphemie of the truth seruants of CHRIST and you may then the Lord opening the eyes of your vnderstanding euidently see them to be that monsterous Beast spoken of in the Reuelation Iudge now in your self which way you could or can with all the learning you haue or want with stand these reasons or how all the false Prophets that flowe from guarde the throne of Antichrist can finde anie phisique or Baulme for these wounds of the Beast So then your 3. 4. Lyes That it should be in effect vvholy yeilded vnto by you 4. And agreed vppo◅ a◅ongst your selues that the BBs are Antichrists We hope will not proue so incredible especially when they shalbe confirmed to your face as they were vnto your fellow M r. SPERINS by sondrye credible eare witnesses that were present if you continue so shameles to denie it V◅to your 5. Lye That you haue brokē the o◅th of y◅ur Canonicall obedience We answere that you greatly mistake the matter we neuer so sclaundered you we always thought you ouerwell obserued that vngodly oath Our words in our letter were that we neede not stand to proue that your ministerie was deriued from exercised vnder theis BB s. neither durst you stand to denie it not so much for breaking the oath of your Canonicall obedience vvhich you haue sworne vnto them as least you should therfore be called before them c. Here leauing the whole estate of the BB s. vvho were proued by vs and confessed by you to be A◅tichristes as also passing by the present estate of your owne ministerie which is deriued from exercised vnder them therfore proued vnto you to be Antichristian vnlesse yt you may belong vnto stand vnder two diuers heads and these so contrary as CHRIST ANTICHRIST But all these waightie matters you vvillingly passed bye after the maner of all timeseruing Pharises and picking a quarrell at these 3. points in your
Prophets yet you will not say that they were not ordinary Magistrates GRE. Euery Prophet was not a Minister of the teÌ„ple in the priests office COOP. SPER. The Prophetts office vvas a ministeriall office BAR. None but Leuites might bâ—… Ministers of the Tabernacle buâ—… ther were manie Prophetts which were not of the tribe of Leui. But what is this to our purpose was not MOSES IOSEPH theis others ciuile Magistrates M r. COOPER will you confesse your error COOP. They were no ordinarie Magistrates BAR. Yt is euident they were ciuile Magistrats ordinary excellent magistrats according to the reuealed will of GOD. But you will yâ—…ild vnto no truth but cauil perueâ—…slie against the euident Scriptures Amongst mich coÌ„fused speach that passed betwixt M r. SPERIN me HENRY BARROVV after that our conference was broken vp in following his last assertion That he held not himself a Minister by tâ—…e Bishops Ordination vntill he had the â—…pprobation of the people He first coÌ„fessed the BB s. ordinatioÌ„ to be a ciuile constitution Then that the Bishops by the Princes Commandement may ordeyne Ministers by their sole authority Because Timoâ—…hi Tiâ—…us did ordenie Elders alone When it was alleadged that Timothi Titus did ordeine them according to the Apostles constitutions and as the Apostles themselues vsed to do which alwaies was by the free election of the flocke 1. Cor. 4. 17. Act. 1â—… 23. he said that Timothi Titus as also the Apostles wâ—…re Ministers alone without the peoples electioÌ„ And that the world 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Act. 14. 23. had relation vnto the Apostles that liâ—…ed vp their hands before they laid them on and not vnto the people that lifted vp their â—…andes to signifie their approbation in the election He said that if â—…o bâ—… this Act. 14. were to be vnderstood of the peoples election yâ—…t theâ—… were no morâ—… places to proue that the 〈◊〉 ought to chuse their Ministers Being demaunded what he thought of Acts. 1. Acts. 6. of 1. Timoâ—… 3. Titus 1. he said that Acts. 6. was but of Deacons onlie and as for the other places they proued not that the people might chuse their Elders Being demauÌ„ded who then were to make choise probation of the Elders he said that Timothi Titus in those chapters Being asked who now was to succeed Timothi Tiâ—…us seing they had lest no heires apparaÌ„t behind them he said the BB s. were to chuse ordeine them who now being old and able to take no more paynes were to gouerne ouer manie Churches as they did Being asked of 1. Timoth. 3. vers 10. who was to chuse and make probatioÌ„ there he confessed that the Church being asked whether that rule of probation belonged not also were spoken of Elders in like maner he said no. but onlie of Deacons being asked if the woâ—…d hosâ—…utos in the 8. verse had not relation vnto the â—…ame chusers and gaue not now rules vnto them concerning Deacons also And how he could by that chapter make anie distinction or shew whie the former rules â—…oÌ„cerning the chusing of Elders should not aswell belong vnto the Church as theis concerning Deacons or whie if the former belonged vnto Timothi theis also should not belong vnto Timothiâ—… he answeared still that the Church was to chuse Deacons but not Elders In furder discourse of theis rules for the gifts maners rules of the conuersatioÌ„ life of theis Elders which were such as could be knowne vnto examined by none but by the church where they liued which shewed that theis rules of their Election were giuen â—…nto the Church wherin Timothie was rather to help instruct the Church then anie way to plucke away the power authoritie interest of the church he answeared that Timothi could onlie best try the gifts learning of theis Ministers and therfore the choise approbation were giuen to him onlie Being demâ—…unded whether ther were not manie rules concerning sondrie christian vertues of manners conuersation towards all men of the gouerning of themselues of their wiues children families which belonged were Common to the teaching and gouerninge Elders which the Church wheâ—… they liâ—…ed could only best iudge He said that 1. Timothi 3. Titus 1. were onlie wriâ—…ten vnderstood of Pâ—…stors Teachers because yt is ther said a Bâ—…hop must bâ—… didacticos which is onlie peâ—…ulier vnto the Pastor Teacher Neither would he yeild though yt were shewed him that the name care of Elders were common vnto all aswell the gouerning as teaching Elders that most of the rules accorded vnto them indifferently Acts â—…0 Furder that he could shew no â—…ther rules iâ—… the Testament of CHRIST for the election of the gouerning Elders then there Wherupon he fell into this grosse opinioÌ„ also That those Elders Deâ—…cons were one office Not vnderstaÌ„ding Ro. 12. 8. 1. Tim. 5. 17. Phil. 1. 1. Retorning againe vnto the BB s. being demauÌ„ded by what warraÌ„t they may vsurpe this inordinate power ouer all the churches In processe of speach he was driueÌ„ to acknowledge yt onlie to be by the Princes authoritie not by the Testament of CHRIST so held them to be meerly ciuile Being demaunded what theÌ„â—…e thought of their ministerie SacrameÌ„ts which they deliuered he awhile denying that they medled with the Sacraments or ministrie in th' end being pressed because they in all the Parishes of their diocesses did might at their pleasure preach and deliuer the Sacraments whether the Church Parson would or no yea they will make the Parson follow them with the Cupp booke yea the B. will scilence suspend or remoue what Minister or Parson he list Here M â— SPERIN said that the Bishop did not neither should administer anie Sacraments in his Pâ—…rish Thus vvith one breath he affirming and denying grauâ—…ting and retracting I â—…old him that I vvould not from hencefourth 〈◊〉 more reason or Confâ—…r vvith him vntill he brought a better Conscience vvith him To coÌ„clude seing he neither vnderstood the Scriptures wherof he so bouldlie affirmed or denied seing he vnderstood not the verie first Doctrines beginnings of CHRIST as the Doctrines of laying on of hands of Election ordination c. neither yet knewe so mich as the offices that belonged to the Church of CHRIST he was altogeather vnworthie vnfit to be a teacher or exercise anie gouernment in the Church of CHRIST Saying that God would er long shew who were fitt Ministers to drawe neere vnto him He said vnto me that I medled which more then I needed and that I did but take a wolf by the eares I said that he abused and vnderstood not that Prouerbe also that I did not immiscere alienae liti That yt was a matter of mine owne saluation that I stood for in refusing all subiection or CoÌ„munion with ANTICHRIST his detestable enormities that euerie true Christian ought to
coÌ„tend for the maintenance of the faith that was once giueÌ„ vnto the Saints Reâ—… 14. 9. c. Iude. â—… M r. COOPER to shift off the answeare of our Arguments wherwith he was pressed wheÌ„ he perceiued the issue of them he rose from the table brake off Conference with vs pretending hast to be gonne but the dore being lockt he turned him to two gâ—…lemen which sate behind as hearâ—…rs of our conference and fell â—… perswading of them whervpon I IOHN GREN left M r. BARâ—…OVV Mr. SPERIN in conference still went to giue eare to Mr. COOPER whose deceiptâ—… I fownde so pernitions Dâ—…ctrines so fowle that I againe replied vpon him and receiued certaine errors from his mouth some wherof I shall heare insert with mine answere in breife not following our vvhole discourse COOP. A priuate man ought not to make question our doubt of the Ministers ouâ—…ward calling but if he find comfort in heart by his Doctrine he ought to approue of his ministrie what calling soeuer he haue GREN. This is sweete Doctrine that you sowe here hath not the â—…orde giuen as great Commandement to auoide false Prophetts as to heare obey the true messengers and all true messengers thervpon approuing their sending to all mens consciens by the euideâ—…t testimonie of Gods reueyled will shall not the flocke know their Pastor yea chuse call their Pastor COOP. If one come into a CongregacoÌ„n heare one preach he ought not to make question of the Ministers calling or refuse his Doctrine GREN. If one come so before know that that preacher hath a false outward calling yea that he hath no office in a true Church but is a false Prophet he offendeth in hearing of him especially in a false Church for ther is no false teacher but teachâ—…th some truth c. COOP. A man may be a true Minister to a people vncalled they are a true Church or faithfull Congregation potentia though not actu and he may be an officer or minister vnto them they bâ—…ing a true Church Potentia GREN. This is such Doctrine as I neuer heard that a Pastor can be ordeyned exercise the duties of a Pastor to a Church that as yet is not But your Ministers most sacrilegiouslie giue them the Sacâ—…aments also in this estate COOP. Though the Minister do deliuer the Sacraments to the open knowne vnworthie and so commit sacriledge yet maie a priuate man communicate with the Minister that partie not be partaker of their sinne GREN. If I associat a theife Communicate in his â—…uill shall I not be guiltie how mich more if I reproue not this transgressioÌ„ against God absteine from their fellowship till they repent or by due â—…rder be censured BARTLET Here M r. BARTLET a gentleman said yt was not well we had not some more orderlie Conference about theis weightie causes that the truth might appeaâ—…e GREN. You see they will not come to aniâ—… pointe of Doctrine to conclude anie thing we haue long made sute to haâ—…e some free Conference neuer could obteine anie but are lockt vp close prisoners COOP. They denie our Church ministrie therfor are not to be disputed with BARTL Yet their reasons would be seene coÌ„uinced orderly if they deserue yt then to suffer punishment GREN. We haue often shewed causes whie we hold your Church ministerie to be false and not to be ioyned with of anie that wilbe saued as for example you haue not a people rightlie gathered vnto CHRIST but stand one with the world so that your parishes cannot be called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a people called fourth 2. you haue set a popish ministerie ouer this whole â—…ande 3. you most sacrilegiously giue the Sacraments in this order to all commers 4. you worâ—…hipp God after mens deuises and not according to CHRISTS Testament 5. you haue not the power or freedome to redresse sinne by due censure being all Subiect to theis wicked Courts c. BARTL Theis thinges would be answeared conuinced COOP. We graunt the things they seeke are good and manie of vs haue written and taught fullie the same but they seeke them not by due order GREN. This is not true you are limited what to preach to conforme your Doctrines to theis AntichristiaÌ„ Orders still practize coÌ„trarie iâ—… you write or teach anie truth And as for vs we seeke to do the will of God after the same order that all true Prophets CHRIST his Apostles haue taught practised for Conscience towards God to haue no fellowship with that ministerie Church which reiecteth CHRISTES Testament and will not be guided by him his Ordinances COOP. We professe teach trulie all the Articles of faith GREN. The Papists teach the same Articles in generall wordes but nether you nor they ether teach the particular Doctrines our practise the same truly But both you and they denie speaciall Doctrines of our Iustification COOP. What Article of faith do we not truliâ—… teach GREN. You teach that CHRIST descended into hell after his death and buriall COOP. We hold it not neither teach yt manie of vs haue taught written against yt you therfore do vs wrong to chardge vs with vt GREN. It is set out with priuiledge as an Article of your faith receiued and redd in all your Parishes COOP. Though the gouernours of our Church sett yt out and we caâ—… not help yt yet we are not to be chardged with yt GREN. Besids that you daylie communicate with them that do hold yt if not reade yt to the people you haue subscribed to this all other such errors in your Church of late as I heare Here Mr. COOPER was smitten with mutenes and the gentleman said haue you donne so COOP. He careth not whâ—…t he saith of vs. GREN. Will you denie yt I will bring witnes to proue yt vnto you before to morrow at 8 of the clocke if you denie yt COOP. I will not make you acquainted with my priuate actions GREN. I desire not to knowe your priuate actioÌ„s but this is a publique matter of your subiection to Antichrist in your whole ministerie against your conscience but yt seemes your deeds ar euill and therfore you would hide them least they should be reproued of the light The gentleman said yt was thought we held some error about the lords prayer as they call yt whervppon I shewed him ouâ—… iudgment in writing said that we vvould not continue in anie error to our knowledg and when he read thatwe said yt could not be called the Lords prayer because he neuer prayed yt M r. COOPER tooke exception thus COOP. It may be called the Lords prayer in respect he taught yt his Disciples GREN. This proueth it cannot be called the lords prayer for Doctrine is one thing and prayer is an other Prayer is a powring fourth of our hearts vnto the Lord according to our present waÌ„ts Doctrine