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A68210 A Christian letter of certaine English protestants, vnfained fauourers of the present state of religion, authorised and professed in England: vnto that reverend and learned man, Mr R. Hoo requiring resolution in certaine matters of doctrine (which seeme to ouerthrow the foundation of Christian religion, and of the church among vs) expreslie contained in his fiue books of Ecclesiasticall pollicie. Willet, Andrew, 1562-1621, attributed name.; Cartwright, Thomas, 1535-1603, attributed name. 1599 (1599) STC 13721; ESTC S107562 38,506 52

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and heereafter more aboundantlie their full ioy and felicitie ariseth because while they liue they are blessed of God and when they dye their workes follow them And yet againe you say I will not dispute whether truely it may not be sayde that poenitent both weeping and fasting are meanes to blott out sinne meanes whereby through Gods vnspeakeable and vndeserued mercie wee obtayne and procure to our selues pardon which attaynement vnto anie gracious benefite by him bestowed the phrase of antiquitie vseth to expresse by the name of merite Heere wee desire to bee resolued how these your assertions can stande with the doctrine and beleef of the church of England Fayth only iustifieth To which the holy Scripture accordeth saying If there had bene a lawe that could haue giuen life surelie righteousnes had bene by the law but the scripture hath concluded all vnder sinne that the promise by the fayth of Jesus Christ might be giuen to them that beleeue And againe David declareth the blessednes of the man vnto whom God imputeth righteousnes without workes For if from sound and sincere virtues as you say full ioy and felicitie ariseth and that we all of necessitie stande bounde vnto all partes of morall duetie in regarde of life to come and God requireth more at the handes of men vnto happines then such a naked beleefe as Christ calleth the worke of God alas what shal we poore finful wretches doe who can haue no confidence in the flesh being farre from those sounde and sincere virtues and from manie that we say not all partes of morall dutie in such measure as the holy iust good law of God doeth require them yea our verie righteous workes we finde to be stayned like a filthie cloth when we cōpare them vnto that absolute righteousnes which is indeed pure vnspotted before the eyes of God therefore we clayme nothing by any duetie we doe or can doe or anie virtue which wee finde in our selues but onelie by that naked faith which is the work of God in vs and maketh vs beleeue in him whom he hath sente and by his stripes onelie we hope to be healed Tell vs therefore by sounde and plaine demonstration what wee may trust to whether the English beleefe be imperfect without some necessarie additament whether you thinke that not faith alone but faith hope and loue be the formall cause of our righteousnes whether a man that hath faith can also doe all the works of the law and so make vp that which is wāting in his naked faith or that if he cannot but falleth into sinne seuen times yea sometimes into great sinnes whether his faith may not saue him Lastlie whether there bee not other sufficient causes to induce a christian to godlines honestie of life such as is the glorie of God our Father his great mercies in Christ his loue to vs example to others but that we must do it to merit or to make perfitt that which Christ hath done for vs. And lastlie shew vs that phrase of antiquitie whether it were in the Apostles time among the sounder christians or in what time immediatlie following or doe you not closelie make the popish doctrine of meritt by workes at the least to be tollerable to the disgrace of our English creede The church of England professeth that Good workes the frutes of faith and following the iustified cannot abide the seueritie of Gods iudgement and that The workes which are done before the grace of Christ are not onely not acceptable to God but also haue the nature of sinne You say The most certayne token of evident goodnes is If the generall perswasion of all men doe so account it And againe Only mans obseruation of the lawe of his nature is Righteousnes only mans transgression sinne Gods verie commaundements in some kinde as namelie his precepts comprehended in the law of nature may otherwise be knowen then onelie by scripture and that to doe them howsoeuer we know them must needes be acceptable in his sight Here we desire to be instructed howe the goodnes of these actions done by the light of nature are to be vnderstoode eyther simplie in them selues as nature onelie declareth and teacheth or as men following the light of nature iudge of them and so doe them if you answere onelie as nature teacheth without regarde of man doeing according to nature then can we not vnderstande your discourse which seemeth to vs to teach that by doeing such operations of goodnes as nature teacheth though he haue no further teachinge it is righteousnes and pleaseth God If you meane this second then I pray you in what sence can you call that righteousnes in man which our Church calleth sinne and doe you not establish the Romish doctrine of pura naturalia and workes of congruitie And if that be true which you say that men doing such workes be acceptable in Gods sight doe you not make the Church of England to holde an errour when they say they are not acceptable to God The church of England professeth that Works of supererogation cannot bee taught without arrogancie and wickednes And you say God approued much more then he commaundeth Open vnto vs then that seeing you seeme to teach that the order and course of all things supernaturall naturall sensible and reasonable is a diuine lawe and so by it he commaundeth accordinge to euerie kinde and that in the former articles you appeare to vs to scatter the prophane graines of poperie whether we may not iustlie iudge that in thus speaking you sow the seede of the doctrine whiche leadeth men to those arrogant workes of supererogation If not shew your own meaning and howe you esteeme of this Article of our beleefe The Church of England holdeth that Christ onely being the immaculate Lambe was without sinne and that we which are baptized and regenerated in him doe all offende in manie things You say Although we cannot bee free from all sinne collectiuelie in such sorte that no parte thereof shalbe found inherent in vs yet distributiuelie at the least all great and greeuous actuall offences as they offer themselues one by one both may and ought to be by all meanes auoyded So that in this sense to be preserued from all sinne is not impossible Heere we demaunde to be informed that if all offende in manie things and to say otherwise be a lye as our English creede affirmeth how your saying can be true that it is possible to avoyde all great and greeuous sinnes And what manie things they bee whereof the scripture speaketh Whether it meaneth not actual offences great and greeuous but that some may be excepted in regard of great sinnes or whether you meane that it is possible for all christians to be preserued from all great sinnes and if so why should it not bee as possible from all small offences and if from small and great why doe
a sermon whether the Logicall and Dialecticall frame by which men contriue their matter in such and such a forme or that by the gift of the grace of God waying and searching and fitting togither many sentences they seeke out pleasant wordes euery right writing and faithfull wordes and so vtter in their doctrine integritie grauitie and the wholesome worde which can not be reproued If you meane the former then euerie declamation and formal oration in the schooles may be called sermons for these are framed of the meere witt of man if you meane this latter then we thinke you teach contrarie to our church the holy scriptures You say our sermons are not that stronge and forcible worde They saye it is an essentiall note of the true church to haue true preaching of the worde and namelie the preaching of the pure worde of GOD and that this hath such a force as no eloquence wisedome learning pollicie and power of the worlde can match You saye the witt of man giueth our sermons the verie being They say God sent his Apostles that the Preachers are the seede sowers and the seede is the worde of God and that this is done by the gift of the grace of God Heere we beseech you to shewe the iust harmonie of your wordes and theirs and therein to teach vs by sounde demonstration that a man can preach the pure worde of God by his owne naturall witt without a gift supernaturall of the spirit to giue him vtterance and to speak the word as he ought to speake If all that a man preach be the pure worde of God what derogation is it to call such a mans sermons or preachings the strong and forcible worde In euerie being there is as you schollers teach the matter and the forme and that which ioyneth these togither is the efficient Vnto which of these will you applie the witt of man if you say to the matter then our church is against you and sayeth it is the pure worde of God if to the forme as interpretation doctrine and exhortation then the holy scriptures doe tye vnto the gift of the spirit saying That wee haue diuers giftes as the gift of prophecie teaching exhortation and no scripture is of anie priuate interpretation If you make it the efficient then the scripture saith There are diuersities of giftes but the same spirit and there are diuersities of administrations but the same Lord and there are diuersities of operations but God is the same which worketh all in all No man can preach except he bee sente When he ascended he gaue giftes vnto men Here we pray you to teach vs how your speaches consent to these testimonies of our church and holy Scripture or may you not meane that the Sermons of manie nowe a dayes who in stead of the pure word of God doe most curiouslie bring into the pulpitt Poetts Philosophers Rhetoricians Phisitians Schoolemen and whatsoeuer either by finenesse of witt or helpe of arte they thinke may appeare fine smooth to their hearers and winne praise to them selues may you not meane I say that such our sermons haue their being of the meere witt of man or doe you thinke that the sermons of our Reuerend Fathers and more stayed diuines which are verie warie that in all their sermons whatsoeuer they speake may be the true sense of holie Scriptures and according to the proportion of faith seeing they agree not with the familie of Iesus Christ that is at Rome are not therefore the strong and forcible worde of God And heere we pray you to teach vs whether that all doctrine interpretatiō and exhortation which is truelie and meerelie the natural meaning of holy scripture be not the worde of God or that the word is onelie in the letter of the text as of Hebrewe and Greeke or if you will truelie translated and which of these hath the word of God he that alleadgeth the wordes as did the Tempter or he that alleadgeth the true meaninge as did our Saviour Christ Mat. 4. 6. 10. Lastlie shew vs that if all our sermons bee of the witt of man and none the stronge and forcible worde of God whether Romish Babilon may not chalendge our church to wante one essentiall marke as preaching the pure word of God And whether it be possible for the witt of man to giue beeing vnto that which is an essential marke of the church of God and of that which hath greater strength and authoritie then all eloquence wisedome learning policie and power of the worlde And lastlie open vnto vs whether that reverend Father did well who graunteth that the worde of God is not only in writing but in preaching in Coūsels or Doctors Because Christ saith Hee that heareth you heareth mee The Church of England affirmeth that It is not lawful for anie one to take to him selfe the office of preaching publikely or administring the Sacramentes in the church except hee be first lawfullie called and sente to doe these thinges And heerevpon our Reverend Fathers doe not only not defende nor vse anie reasons at all to prooue that women may baptize and therefore would not haue the booke of cōmon prayer touching baptisme in private to be vnderstood to permitt women to baptize but also cōnstantlie affirme that God and well ordered churches forbidd Women to dispence that holy misterie But you Mai. Hoo. haue another kinde of determinatiō where you say Ministeriall power is a marke of separation because it seuereth them that haue it from other men and maketh them a speciall order consecrated vnto the seruice of the most highest in thinges wherewith others may not medle And in another place There is an errour which beguileth many who much intangle both themselues and others by not distinguishing seruices offices and orders ecclesiasticall the first of which three in parte the seconde may be executed by the laytie whereas none haue or can haue the third but the cleargie From the whiche Cleargie you separate Catechistes Exorcistes Readers and Singers c. And in another place you seeme to mainteyne defende the practise of those churches which necessitie requiring allowe baptisme in private to be administred by Women affirming elswhere That diuers reformed churches doe both allow and defende that kinde of Baptisme Heere we desire to knowe what you meane by ministeriall power whether you take it actiuelie as that euerie minister or all Ministers haue power to make an order consecrated to the seruice of God or passiuelie that by their calling they are made to haue the authoritie and power of a Minister or that you vnderstand by it the formall cause of their ministerie by which they differ from al other orders or that you meane the holy vnction and character which the church of Rome giueth in their consecration of priesthoode And this wee desire because we finde our church and Reverend Fathers speaking like