Selected quad for the lemma: doctrine_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
doctrine_n	doubt_n	reason_n	solution_n	9,992	5	15.5021	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A33770	Theophilus and Philodoxus, or, Several conferences between two friends the one a true son of the Church of England, the other faln off to the Church of Rome, concerning 1. praier in an unknown tongue, 2. the half communion, 3. the worshipping of images, 4. the invocation of saints / by Gilbert Coles.	Coles, Gilbert, 1617-1676.	1674 (1674)	Wing C5085; ESTC R27900	233,018	224

Man and his redemtion by Christ and other Mysteries which were made known unto them saith the Apostle in the Churches by the Ministery of the Gospel See Estius in 4. Sent. dist 46. Paragr 19. p. 294. And so while your Doctors without any warrant of Scripture generally lay this for a Foundation That the Saints in Heaven do know our state and bear our Praiers when they come to the proof and confirmation every one abounds in his own sense and they easily confute one anothers Reasons and Opinions and manifest unto their Readers upon due consideration that they are full of uncertainties in the Point which they take for granted and can urge only fallible Arguments to confirm that which they would have receiv'd by all Men as a mesur'd Truth but we have not learn'd to subscribe to Mens Dictates And you acknowledg your Doctor makes not proof of his Assertion which is a great defect this being the main Hinge whereupon the Controversie turns We conclude therefore there is no reason we should call upon the Saints when they do not hear us as a Child doth not ask his Fathers Blessing when he is out of hearing Now you assert with Bellarmin That the Saints in Heaven out of doubt do hear us but you know not how It is probable say you that in the Face of God they see and know all things that concern them but give no reason of that probability and is it fit that a Doctrine of your Church which takes up in that part the Devotion of all Gods People should be grounded only upon such a probability whereof you can give no reason How can I call upon the Saints with Faith and Comfort when I have no assurance that they can hear me I may with as much reason daily beg the Praiers of pious Friends who live far from me and say It is probable God will revele to them that I desire the assistance of their Praiers Phil. Your Instance runs not parallel Our condition here is a state of ignorance their 's a state of comprehension They can see the Face of God and live for ever they certainly know all things which tend to their consummation in Bliss for they are arriv'd at the state of Perfection and perfect Knowledge is the foundation of their Happiness Theoph. The perfect knowledg of God is so Here we know in part saith the Apostle 1 Cor. 13. ver 12. but there we shall know as we are known i. e. fully perfectly and this knowledg and Vision of God is Beatifical But how doth this prove their knowledg of the necessities and Praiers of us poor Mortals here on Earth whom they have le●t behind them in the vale of Misery we may rather suppose the wisdom of God hath excluded them from the knowledg of their Friends and Relations and of miserable Man here beneath least it should prove a diminution of their Joy and Bliss Your Angelical Doctor holds o Aqu. part 1. qu. 12. Art 8. ad 4. Cognoscere singularia cogitata aut facta c. non est de perfect It belongs not unto the perfection of a created Intellect to know particulars the thoughts or actions of Men. If God only be seen it sufficeth to make men happy As S t Augustin ● He is happy who knoweth Thee altho he have nothing else In a word Cardinals Cajetane was a Learned Advocate of your Church and had studied the Point in hand much and he concludes at last That we have no assurance that the Saints know when we pray to them altho we piously believe it Phil. I well perceive you have a Spirit of contradiction and please your self much in eluding such Arguments which our Doctors urge from Scripture and reason to prove the Doctrine of our Church touching the Invocation of Saints I will therefore take a more convincing way unto such refractory persons and plainly shew by matter of Fact and express Testimony of the Antients That this Doctrine hath bin receiv'd in the Church Catholic from the beginning Theoph. I presume you mean not from the beginning of Christianity you have heard how the attemt of your Doctors to prove it out of Gods Word hath been altogether unsuccessful and some of your Doctors have confes'd that it is delivered in Holy Scripture very obscurely and others have shew'd the reason even the humility and modesty of the Apostles which with-held them from publishing this Doctrine least they should appear to make themselves as Gods after their decease by requiring the People of God to make their Praiers and Supplications to them Seeing therefore your Doctrine is not sounded in the Holy Scripture I could give a short Answer unto your pretended usage of the Church and Testimony of the Ancient That which S t Augustin gave to Cresconius urging the Autority of Cyprian r I am not bound to the Autority of this Epistle for I do not hold the Writings of Cyprian as Canonical but judg of them by the Canonical Scripture and whatsoever is consonant to the Holy Scripture I receive with praise what agrees not with his leave 〈…〉 eject If you could prove what you have urg'd out of the Canonical Books of the Apostles and Prophets I would not contradict but seeing what you haue is not Canonical with that liberty whereunto God hath called us I do not receive his Testimony whose due Praise I can never equal with whose Writings I dare not compare mine own whose Learning I embrace whose 〈…〉 y I admire whose Martyrdom is venerable Again S t Augustin to the same effect elsewhere It is not sufficient unto the Autority of Faith and of the Dostrines of the Church to say Thus Esay or thou faist or he saith 〈◊〉 Thus saith the Lord. So the Blessed Martyr Gyprian himself We must not been what any one hath done before us but what He who is before all Ages hath taught or communded to be don Once more I could answer you out of Gratian t A Custom without the Word of God to back it is not ● B 〈…〉 qu● T 〈…〉 scit etiamsi alia n 〈…〉 t. 〈…〉 sec 〈…〉 secundie ●hem qn 88. Art 5. Certaratione nescimus an Sancti vota 〈…〉 se 〈…〉 2. contr Cresconium c. 32. Ego hujus Epistolae c. 〈…〉 do sine verbo Lei non esse veritatem sed vetustatem erroris Truth but the Antiquity of Error The Council of Cartbage resolved thus ● The Lord said in the Gospel I am Truth He said not I am Castom Phil. Can you so easily trample upon the Autority of the Fathers You have formerly pretended much honor to the venerable Testimony of Antiquity where you conceiv'd it consonant unto your Principles and now you would decline that Touch-stone because you know full well it is against you in this Point of the Invocation of Saints Theoph. These Sentences I have produc'd are of the Fathers and seeing the Word of God doth not establish your Doctrine

the Communion Table Now if all that I have said implies no more I yield the Cause Phil. b Lib. 2. de Idol c. 1. Idololatriae genuina Ratio est Creaturae c. Gregory de Valentia seems to reconcile all the difference with this Distinction Formal Idolatry is to give Divine Honor to a Creature as to God If therefore I give Divine Honor to the Saints or their Images as Creatures not as God I am not guilty of Idolatry Theoph. He was driven to this shift to justifie the practice of your Church and free it from Idolatry but it will not serve for Divine Worship is due only to God and therefore should not be communicated to a Creature upon any account Phil. You will have the last word and I yield to you because the Night comes on and I suppose both of us are sufficiently tired with the length of this Controversie and you are almost fallen upon another Controversie of the Honor and Adoration of Saints which will require another season to determin it Theoph. The honor of Saints and of their Images having near affinity have bin some time taken into consideration together but my chief design was against Image worship as giving great occasion of Idolatry and Scandal in the Church And what I have said I leave to your serious consideration giving you many thanks for this opportunity and freedom of Discourse and for my noble Entertainmentall this time I have been your studious Opponent There are many differences between our Church and yours remaining whereupon when our occasions shall allow us other Meetings if you are willing we will treat with Gods Blessing in Charity and Love THE FOURTH CONFERENCE OF THE Invocation of SAINTS Phil. DEar Sir Since our last Meeting I have been tumultuous in my thoughts and dis-satisfied with my self That I could not give such full satisfaction to your Arguments as I at first suppos'd However I have learn'd of the Apostle Tit. 1. 9. To hold fast the faithful word as I have been taught and not permit the Truth to be wrested from me by subtle and perhaps sophistical Objections I may go to Heaven in the plain way wherein Christ and his Holy Church doth lead me without perplexing my self with emergent Difficulties and Controversies reserving them to be resolv'd until Elias as the Jews speak or rather until our Blessed Savior shall come again Theoph. It seems you are resolv'd to hold to the Conclusion strongly be the Premises never so infirm and hereunto no doubt your Doctors and your Priests advise you To yield an Implicit Faith to the Decrees of your Church and not dispute them But upon the same Motive you should always have subscrib'd and kept stedfast unto the Articles of our Church which was likewise yours and not have forsaken her Communion for Scruples and Imaginations of your own and false Suggestions of others I mean Those creeping Emissaries of Rome who swarm among us and buz into Mens Ears uncertain sounds to unsettle their minds and take them off from sound Principles and then infuse their bewitching Sorceries and Delusions making them drunk with the Cup of Fornications and then forsooth their besotted Reason must be charm'd against all attemts to awaken and to recover them If Reason and Argumentation could induce you to leave our Church whilist you gave an easie belief unto our Adversaries give us leave by the same method to undeceive and to reduce you and do not brutishly resolve to hold fast those pretended Truths which you cannot defend against our Oppositions Phil. Your Church allowing her Disciples a liberty of judging I suitably made use of her Indulgence but being now converted to the Church of Rome I am taught the obedience of an Implicit Faith and not encourag'd to dispute her Articles Theoph. A rare Artifice and Policy to keep Men hood-wink'd and in Error by forbidding them to open their Eies and make use of their Reason and Judgment to discover the Truth Our Church may easily impose the like Credulity upon her Children but she dares not use Stratagems against the Truths of God to do evil upon pretensions of good to keep her Sons and Daughters in ignorance that they may be obedient The Holy Scriptures enjoin a search and examination and trial Prove all things saith St. Paul and hold fast that which is good 1 Thess 5. 21. But you would have Men tenacious of their Opinions without Judgment hold to the Point without the proof S t Peter exhorts the Saints 1 Pet. 3. 15. alwaies to be ready to give an answer unto every one that asketh them a reason of the hope that is in them but you are against this rendring of Reasons the Autority of your Church must suffice Phil Not so neither The Church commands and gives sufficient proof for her prescriptions and we submit to her account Theoph. Do you take the liberty for your own satisfaction to examine and judge of the account Phil. Yes doubtless the more to convince and settle us upon that good foundation Theoph. But suppose upon the search and enquiry you do not find satisfaction to your reason Suppose your Heart and Conscience may suggest Exceptions against the Doctrine and the practice of your Church what then Phil. We may have recourse unto our Priests and Doctors for solution of doubts Theoph. Taking the Holy Oracles of Scripture along with you that is not amiss but withal you should do well to consider That they will surely resolve the Question on their own side and your Church gives no liberty to hear the adverse Party and so Truths are not weigh'd in an equal ballance and differences are determin'd only one side being heard Phil. Good Theophilus trouble not your self with the non-permissions of our Church it will appear at present you have no cause to complain for I am purposely come to requite your former visit and to continue the debate in a Friendly manner concerning some other Points wherein we differ and whereas the last time you made choice of such Particulars to insist on which you thought most liable unto popular Exception you shall give me leave now to propose the subject of our Discourse Theoph. Sir besides the equity of your Demand the rule of Hospitality requires That in my own House I should design to observe you and therefore be pleas'd to make your Friendly Challenge and appoint the Field and Weapons and I will answer you Phil. Upon this fair Concession I will try your skill in one great Point concerning the Invocation of Saints and because you shall not complain of a surprizal I will principally urge Eellarmins proofs in whose Works you appear'd the last time to be so conversant Theoph. Our Church piously with-holding none of our Adversaries Writings from us that upon due Examination we may judg of Truth I have I must confess propos'd chiefly to my self the perusal of that great Cardinals Defence because I was assur'd of his great Abilities and of