murdering his people youre preachers riding with their pistolettes at their saddle bowe encouraging their souldiors to this holie battaile ageinst their owne kinge What is it elles then a moste strong reason of the naughtines of your religion seing that in all the course of Christes ghospell hethertoe we neuer coulde finde anie one such exaÌ„ple of Christe or his Apostles to be folowed So that no lesse was it trulie then merilie saide of one that how euer S. Paule and Beza agreed in other thinges yeat herein theie were far wide that the one conuerted the Gentils by epistles the other labourred to peruerte the Frenche men by pistolettes LAST of all beside the causes and reasons before alleaged confer I beseche yow with your selfe the present state wherein we nowe liue with that of oure for fathers not yeat fullie fortie yeares ago So shall yow I put no doubte seing the effecte that bothe the doctrines haue wroughte be able a greate deale the better to iudge of the goodnes of the same Beholde if yowe can for teares the miserable face of youre natiue countrey sometimes so long as it had not yet tasted of your wicked and poisoned doctrine to the moste florishing common weale in the whole worlde nothing inferior The subiect in those daies loued his prince with feare and feared him with loue The vassall was to his lorde loyall the seruant to his master obedient and faithefull Euerie man helde him content with his vocation no man was curiouse to meddle in an others Charitie simplicitie sobrietie so reigned vniuersallie that of vs that time might welbe called the golden age of which the poetes dreamed But oh lorde god after that olde serpent who neuer since the beginning hath ceassed to practise and exercise his hatred towardes mankinde had nowe enfected vs once againe with a newe apple after that first Luther and then Caluin had set their feete on Englishe grounde it is a worlde to see howe sodenlie all thiese thinges wer changed and as theie neuer had bene turned vpside downe The loue that was so loyall of the subiect turned into seruile feare and treason as occasion serueth the faithe of the vassall or tenaunt to his lorde in to frauand disceite the obedience of the seruaunt in to cotempt the quiet contentation of euerie man with his owne calling in to that busie bodie curiositie in other mennes matters Finallie enuie and malice haue taken vp charities place fraude and sotteltie simplicities and vice dwelleth where vertue was wont Yea euen yet of this will all men beare me witnesse if anie sparckle of this good ordre remaine with them it is to be founde which hate youre doctrine moste That such a chaunge in oure manners hath chaunced youre selfe well I wot the thinge is so plaine can not denie Hereapon will yowe demurre with vs that your doctrine hath not bene the cause thereof and that I vse a paralogismus à non causa vt causa to deface yowe with all The contrarie hereof shall appeare by examining in fewe wordes some such partes of the same as I doubte not haue wrought this chaunge Yow teache that man is from the beginning predestinate by god to be either saued for euer or eternallie daÌ„ned and that this ordre once taken doe what he will to the contrarie liue he neuer so vprightelie on the one side or lose he the bridle to all mischief neuer so much on the other that yeat finallie his vertuouse life that is yow faie so predestinate to be damned shall not be able to defend him therefro no more theÌ„ th'others wicked behaueour shall haue the power to remoue him from the glorie of heauen prepared for him On this fundation thus once laide yo we grounde an other absurditie and to mainteine the first yowe teache that man hath no free will to choose either good or bad but that all that he dothe he is forced to doe maugre him selfe be it righte or wronge laufull or vnlaufull if it be good to satisfie the eternall decree that he maie be saued which dothe it and is predestinate theretoe If it be euell that it maie likewise be a meane towardes his damnation prepared for him And as one inconuenience is comonlie the mother of manie to mainteine this yowe ardriuen to mounte one degree higher and with Melanc thon to saie although he afterwarde recanted the same that god as in the good man he is the author of all good so in the euell he is the worâ—er of all euell not faithe he permissiuè by suffring them so to doe but potestatiuè euen by his owne power and working and so by iust consequence to affirme with your maister â—aluin that god is the author of their damnation who ar damned as in his Institutions is to be seene Yow teache also that by onelie faithe we besaued that we must here in this worlde take oure selues alwaies for certeine of goddes grace and fauour without anie manner of doubte or mistrust whether we be in the same or no that good worckes such as god giueth vs the grace to doe merite towardes oure iustification nothing at all with such like The catholikes on the other side teache the people that theie notwithstanding goddes predestinatioÌ„ of the good and his prescience of the damnation of the euell and reprobate take neuerthelesse good heede to them selues and walcke vprightelie in that vocation whereunto god hathe called them seing that there is none so reprobate in goddes forsight that maie not so behaue him selfe by gods assistance that he maie be saued as the mouthe of almightie god when he saide to cursed Cain If thow doe well shalt thowe not receaue well most plainelie dothe witnes nor anie so predestinate but that he maie so ordre him selfe that he maie not be predestinate and so be damned The catholikes teache that man hath giuen to him by allmightie god free will either by the embracing of his grace freelie offred to all that demaunde the same to be a worcker with him towardes his owne saluation either elles by the refusall thereof to chose eternall daÌ„nation This confirme theie by the example also of Cain who notwithstanding his being in goddes sighte from the beginning a reprobate and cast awaie yeat to declare that that forknowledge worcked no constreint almightie god saide in expresse wordes that th' appetite of sinning was in his power and that he shoulde be hable to rule it Theie teache that all goodnes what so euer it is commeth from aboue giuen to man for the calling and praieng therefore that all euell is of oure selues by assenting to the diuells maliciouse suggestions Theie teache with S. Iames the apostle that faithe withoute worckes is vaine and to no purpose that faithe must ioine with worckes by meanes whereof it is made perfect that man is not iustified by faithe alone Theie teache that so long as we be pilgrimes and trauailers in this miserable life we maie not
kept that the praiers in the night wer vtterly ceassed To that holy father it seemed a great outerage that the churches wer shut vppe what would he thinck we then say wer he aliue in these dayes when of our churches he should see some made the dwelling houses of priuat men other some turned into barnes or stables other cleane ouer throwen and made euen wyth the grounde and those that remain whole so moch worse then if they had byn alltogether shut vp left open for heretikes to pollute with schismaticall seruice and diuelysh doctrine It grieued S. Basil that th' altars should lack the spirituall seruâ—ce whych was not nether for any mislike that men had therein but because in that grieuouse persecution of the Christians theie could not be founde that durst doe it And could he haue taken it well to haue seene theÌ„ broken defaced and quite ouer throwen yea whiche is a crime so horrible that to write it I tremble in those places in which the altars stood whereon was wont in that spirituall sacrifice to be offered vp the most pretious body and bloud of Christ Oxen and beastes more vncleane to befedde He lamented that learned men wer not estemed that they wer not prouided of lyuings and would he not much more lament to see them depriued of those whych they had and shoemakers weuers tinckers coweherdes broome men Russians forfelonies burned in the haÌ„ds to be put in ther places Then was no holsom doctrine taught nowe is ther nothing elles taught but poisoned and vnholsom Then wer there no holidaies kepte nor hymnes vsed in the night Nowe ar they accompted to be superstition Nowe as we felt none of all thiese miseries besides a thousand moe so long as we kept our selues wythin the vnite of one heade so is euery man able to beare me witnesse that as soone as the diuel the author of all heresies had once obteined and brought about the banishmeÌ„t in our countrye of that one bishop wyth the whych as you haue hard out of S. Cyprian before he vseth alwayes to begin all these russhed in apon vs as the dore that should haue kept them out being set wide open And as this is confessed by the most auncient fathers that haue wrytten sence Christes tyme that by this meanes we first reuolt from the churche by contemning and not acknowleging the head so muâ—t our return thyther again be by the contrary that is by reuerencing him by acknowleging him by humble submission of our self to him So did those that after ther fall with Nouatus S. Cyprian receiued into the churche again apon ther submission testified in these wordes Nos Cornelium episcopum sanctissmum Catholicae Ecclesiae erectum à deo omnipotente Christo D. nostro scimus Nos errorem nostrum confitemur Circumuenti sumus perfidiae loquacitate factiosa amentes videbamur qua si quandam communicationem cum homine schismatico habuisse Syncera tamen mens nostra in ecclesia semper fuit Nec ignoramus vnum deum esse vnum Christum esse dominum quem confessi â—umus vnum spiritum S vnum Episcopum in ecclesia catholica esse debere We say they acknowledge Cornelius to be erected by god almighty and Christe our lorde to be the holie bishop of the catholike churche We confesse our error we haue byn circumuented ronning madde by the factious babbling of treachery we semed to haue communicated as it wer with that schismaticall man Nouatus yet was our sincere minde alwaies in the churche Nor we ar not ignorant that there is one onlie god and one Christ our lorde and that in the catholike churche there must be one holie ghost and one bishop So did Vrsatius and Valens forsaking the heresy of Arrius offer vp ther recantation to Iulius then bishop of Rome By thys meanes good Christian readers returned they to the churche by this must you return that haue straied what so euer you be if you will be saued Seing now as I haue declared the going out of the churche is by the contempt of the head thereof and the return home again by th' acknowleging and reuerencing of the same persuade your selfe that it hath not byn for nothing that good men in all ages haue byn and at this time ar no lesse busyed in defence thereof then heretikes myssecreantâ— and enemies to our faithe ar readie wyth all ther power to assault the same The consideration whereof hath caused also me in this enterprise of mine to begin first wyth the fortifieng of that whereunto our enemies as the very fundacion of all true religion the comfort and stay of the catholikes the terror and vtter vndoing of all heretikes doe most direct ther battery In the handling where of I purpose god willing to take this ordre First before I comme to the principall poinct thatlieth in question betwene vs which is of the bishop of Romes supremacie to proue to you by most plaine and euident reasons that the churche of Christ here militant in earth must of necessitie for diuerse and sondrie vrgent causes haue one chief head and ruler vnder Christ to rule and gouerne the same Secondarily that that one head must nedes be a priest Thirdly and so last of all that of all priests the bishop of Rome is he whych must supply that place and that for so that is head and ruler of the church he hath byn of th' auncient councels and old fathers wyth in the first six hundred yeares after Christes de parture taken THAT CHRISTES CHVRCH HERE IN EARTH MVST OF NECESSITIE HAVE ONE CHIEF HEAD AND GOVERNER VNDER CHRIST TO RVLE THE SAME THe truthe of thys proposition good Christian readers is not onely by the whole ordre and forme of the estate of gods people in th' olde lawe whych was also the true churche of god long before the comming of our sauiour in to this world but by the dailie experience also of ciuile and polytike gouuernenement most manifestly confirmed For who is there so blynde that he seeth not that in the whole frame of this worlde there is no kingdom so mighty no realm so puysant no cytie so populous no towne so welthy yea on the coÌ„trary part also no village so littell no family so small finally no societe of men no not of those that haue wrapped them selues in league to robbe and spoile that can anie while continue wythout a head to gouern them If therefore to lyue vnder the gouuernement of a head be a matter of such importance as wythout the whych neyther great nor little riche nor pooer good nor bad can stande how much more necessary shall we thinck it in Christes churche here militant in earthe where the diuell in hys membres is continually occupied in raysing of schismes in stirring vp discord to vex and molest the people of god to haue thys wholesom prouision for th' appeasing thereof and the restoring of the same being troubled to quietnes
again And because good Christian readers you shall well perceaue that this is no nowe deuise or fantasie imagined by mâ— I will here lay before your eyes the iudgement of certein notable men whom god gaue to his churche to serue for a wall for the same ageinst the incursions of the wicked Phylistins his enemyes In whom you shal most plainely perceiue this ordre in Christes churche to be so necessarie that the onely breache or lack thâ—râ—of hath byn by them taken to be the highe way and very path that leadeth to all heresies And first to begyn wyth that blessed martyr of god S. Cyprian hath he not coÌ„cerning this matter in an epistle by hym written to Corâ—elius then bishop of Rome thiese wordes Neque enim aliunde obortae sunt haereses aut natâ—â— sunt schismata quà m indé quâ—â—d sacerdoti dei non obtemperatur necvnus in ecclesia ad tempus sacerdos et ad tempus iudex vice Christicogitatur that is neyther yet truely doe heresies aryse or schismes growe of any other cause then thereof that men obey not the priest of god neyther doe thinck that there is in the churche in the steed and place of Christ one prieste and one iudge for the time Hetherto S. Cyprian By the whych wordes good christian readers it is so euident that there must be one priest in the churche whom all other must obey that the same must be taken of vs for iudge here in earthe in the stede of Christe that you see I nothing doubt great cause to condeÌ„ne the grosse ignorance of our late apologie Wher in the authors contrary to thys doctrine of S. Cyprian most impudently pronounce that in hys church Christ our lord vseth not the help of any one man alone to gouern the same in his absence as he that standeth in neede of no such help and that if he did no mortall man could be found hable alone to doe the same and finally wyth the same S. Cyprian who dyed a holy martir and is no dout a saincte in heauen to whome the belief of both these two articles seemed not onely not impossible but also very necessary to lyue and dye in th' obedience of this priest and vnder such a iudge then wyth a sort of lewd losels in whose churche being a certein secret scattred congregation vnknowen to all the world beside and to their own fellowes toe is nother head ordre obedience neyther yet certein rules or groundes where on to stay to runne hedlong ye wot no more then your guides whither But S. Cyprian was he trow yow of this minde alone No verilie for S. Hierom is of the same as by thiese his wordes it is most euident Ecclesiae salus in summi sacerdotis pendet dignitate cui si non exors ab omnibus eminens detur poteâ—tas tot in ecclesâ—a efficientur schismata quot sacerdotes The health sayth he and welfare of the churche dependeth apoÌ„ the estimatioÌ„ of the chief priest who if he haue not auctoritie pearelesâ—e and aboue all other ye shall haue in the churche so many schismes as there be priestes And again in an other place speaking of the apostles he writeth thus Quòd vnus poâ—teà electus est qui caeteris praeponere tur in schismatis remedium factum est ne vnusquisque ad se trabens ecclesiane rumperet that is That one was afterward chosen to rule the rest that was donne for a remedy ageynst schismes least while euery man would chalenge to hym self the churche by such halyng and pullyng they might brâ—ake the same Leo of whom the whole councell of Calcedon as one of the greatest for nombre so of all men accoÌ„pted emongest the fower general for auctoritie reported so honorably that they did not onely wyth one voice all openly professe them selues to beleue as he did but called him also by the name of Sanctissimus beatissimus that is most holy and blessed of all other speaking of the mysticall body of Christes church writeth after this sort Haec conâ—exio totius quidem corporis vnanimitatem requirit c. This combination and ioining together he speaketh of the body of Christes church requireth an vnitie of the whole body but especîally of the priestes emongest whom although there be one dignitie common to them all yet is there not one generall ordre emongest them all For euen emongest the blessed apostles in that similitude of honor was there yet a differeÌ„ce of power and whereas in ther election they wer all lyke yet was yt giuen to one to be aboue all the rest Out of whych forme is taken our difference of bishops and by merueylouse ordre and disposition ys yt prouided that euery one should not chalenge to him self euery thing but that in euery prouince there should be one whose iudgement emongest the rest of his brethern should be chief and of most auctoritie And agein certein appoincted in greater cityes whose care should be greater by whome to the onely seate of Peter the charge of the vniuersal churche might haue recourse that nothing might at any time dissent from the head Hetherto haue yowe hard good readers beside th' experience that we haue of ciuile policy and worldly gouernement the opinions also of S. Cyprian S. Hierom and holy Leo all three agreiâ—g in one that there must nedes be one iudge in Christes churche in his steede that the health of the churche dependeth apon the auctoritie of the chief priest that if his auctoritie be not aboue all the rest there will so many schismes breake in apon vs as there be priestes that for th' auoyding of that mischief there was one chosen euen emongest th' apostles to gouern the rest Last of all that that vsage in christes churche to haue one head is no newe inuention as some men falsely report but taken from th' example of th' apostles them selues I can not heare stay to examyne curiously euery word in these auncient fathers but leauing that good readers to your discretion and not douting but that in these graue witnesses in a matter of such weight and importance as whereapon dependeth the health of the whole churche you wilbe no lesse diligent then you would be in examining the depositions of your owne witnesses or your aduersaries in a triall of landes or other temporall commoditie I shall procede to the coÌ„sideration of the second reason which before I touched of the people of Israel if I fyrst warne you to considre but this by the way that ye may trust those auncient fathers by ther word the better an other time how many schismes be burst in apoÌ„ vs in our country of England for one common receiued truthe in the dayes of our fathers when we remained in the obedience of one chief priest and iudge which shake now so myserably the same howe quietly in one loue in one truthe in one
hereafter In the meane season that theie will haue of Christes church here in earthe no other head but Christ him self therein they fare me thincketh not much vnlike to a certein â—elon of whome I haue harde that being areigued 〈◊〉 â—he bar for a felonie when he had pleadid to the 〈◊〉 not guilty and was after the manner demaunded how he would be tried he would suspecting his own case and knowing that if he satisfied the law in putting him self apon the tryall of the country there wer no moe waies with him but one make thereto no other answer but onely that he would put him self apon god the righteous iudge of all who although he saide truely that god was the chief iudge of all as the protestants doe in calling Christ the head of the churche yet was there in his case an other iudge here in this worlde vnder god by whom he must haue byn tried as there is in theirs an other head here in the churche to ordre them and kepe them vnder and in whom Christ the chief head of all vseth in all necessary knowledge to giue answer And as the felon knewe well that there was an other iudge beside god and appealed not to him as though before him he should haue ben acquitted and proued not guilty but onelie to gaine a longer time of life and libertie so doe I dout not our aduersaries the protestants And trulie to both thiese kynde of men being bothe theeues th'one sort doing violence to the body the other to the soule if such pleas might be allowed howe so euer they be coloured with the name of Christ betwene them both they would freelie robbe the body and murther the soule But let vs now examine this reason of theirs whereof they ar wont so much to triumphe Christ is head of the church Ergo the pope is not Ergo it câ—a haue no other head That Christ is the head of the church we graunted before and none of our syde did euer yet deny yt But as it is most manifest that Christ him self is the worcker of all his sacraments for he baptizeth he forgiueth sinnes he consecrateth his blessed body and bloud he ioineth together in matrimony the man and his wife and yet forasmuch as he should nedes departe out of this worlde and could not alwaies dwell with vs after a corporall manner he hath chosen ministres to dispense those his giftes by And we saye and no fault found therewith that the priest his ministre baptizeth that he forgiueth sinnes that he consecrateâ—h his most preâ—ious body and bloud So after the same manner and for the same cause that is to say because he could not be alwayes present with vs in such sort as we might see him and speake with him face to face to be resolued at his mouth of such doubtes and questions as should arâ—se emongest vs he left vs also one that in that his absence should gouern and rule his whole churche He remaineth neuerthelesse head thereof he ruleth he reigneth he exerciseth his power and authorite in the same but yet by man his ministre whome for that cause most aptly the Scholasticall writers haue termed caâ—â—â— minâ—â—â—eriale that is to saye a head but yeat by the reason of his seruice and ministerie vnder an other that is Christ â—ho is onelie absolutely simply and without all relation to any other the head thereof Not as though he wer not hable to rule the same without any such help or instrument which he could haue doen also in the olde lawe where his pleasure was that the people should resort to the chief priest to be resolued in all doutes arising apon the lawe and had no more nede of help then then he hath now but for that this waye it hath pleased hym to 〈◊〉 his exâ—eding great loue towards mankind 〈…〉 of emongest men such as he will execute 〈…〉 worlde 〈◊〉 as he will vse as his mouth to 〈◊〉 the secretes of his holâ—e pleasure to vs and fâ—â—ally such as should represent to vs his owne parson Because Châ—â—stâ—s king of all kinges and lord of all lordâ—â— because if it so pleased him he could rule all this worlde much better then it is ruled without the help of any other whereof he hath his absolute power considered no nedeâ— shall we therefore say that there be not nor nede to be any kynges here in â—â—â—the When S. Paule called the man the head of the woman denied he therefore Christ to be her head Kinge Saul when he was called by the prophet Samuel caput in tribubus Israël the head of the tribues of Israel was god thinck you excluded that he should not be their head To vse examples more familier th'archebishop of Cauntorbury is the head of the bishoprick and diocesse of London as he is of all the bishoprickes within his prouince and yet can not a man infer apon this that therefore the B. of London is not the head of that his diocesse But Christ hath no suche nede our aduersaries crye still to haue any man to be in his stede to succede him in the whole enheritance Nam Christum semper adesse eccle siae suae vicario homine qui ex asse in integrum â—uccedat non â—gere these be their very wordes in their apologie Here would I like a frinde aduertise them that for ther pooer honesties sake they harp not to much on this string left by their so doing they comme as nere to the heresie of Suenkfeldius as he whom in their apologie they falselie sclaunder therewith is far bothe from that and all other For Suenkfeldius emongest other his abhominable heresies hath also this in my opinioÌ„ the chiefest that we ought to banish vtterly from emongest vs all scripture and as Hosius writeth of him thys heresie of hys to derogate from the scriptures all auctoritie he went also about to proue bi scripture But howe I praie you good readers By what reason thinck you would he haue proued this diuelish and most absurde doctrine Beleue me or rather your owne iudgements seing and perceiuing most plainely that I lie not by the self same reasons that our aduersareis doe vse to proue that Christes churche here in earth can haue vnder him no head or chief gouernour to gouern the same Thow must not be parfect in the scriptures saith this stincking heretike Swenckfield But whie because forsooth we must be taught at gods mouth because his worde teacheth truly the scripture is not his worde but dead lettres and no more accompte to be made of them then of other creatures emongest the which they ar to be reconed We must loke to be taught froÌ„ heauen not out of bookes The holie ghost vseth to coÌ„me froÌ„ aboue without the help of meanes as hearing preaching or reading the scriptures Thieâ—e be that wicked heretike his folish and vnsauery persuasions And what other thing is it I praie you good readers
grounded the doctrine of Christes true presence in the sacrament and so consequently that I deserue no blame who vse this auctoritie no otherwise then I finde by good and laufull recordes that the learned fathers of Christes church haue doen before me next that apon this doctrine once settled they buylded an other that Christ dwelled naturally and truly in vs against the Arrians who denied it And for so vndouted a truthe was this true and reall presence of Christ taken to be with Hilarius that blessed bishop that a littell before the place euen now alleaged to proue that Christ dwelled naturally in vs he vsed this argument or reason The word was truly made flesh in Christes incarnation we receaue the same word truly made flesh in our lordes foode Therefore he dwelleth naturally in vs. To this auncient father for the better iustifieng of this terme truly or verely I shall here adde the auncient councell holden at Ephesus one of the first 4. generall and therefore allowed with vs at home for good by act of parliament The fathers in this councell assembled to Nestorius who as by that councell it may appeare beleued the bread in the sacrament to be so turned in to flesh as that it should haue no manner of coniunction at all with the godhead nor be any other thing then the flesh of a pure and holy man wrote after this sort that we should thinck that we receiue flesh in the sacrament non vt hominis vnius ex nobis sed vt verè propriam eius factam qui propter nos filius hominis est factus vocatus that is to say not as the flesh of a man one such as we ar but such as was truly made his owne propre flesh who for our sakes was made and called the sonne of man Can there be any plainer proufe to show that Christes flesh is truly present in the sacrament then this M. Iuell You can not here shift of this place with Oecâ—lampadius and say as he most impudently did that this auctoritie is no part of th'actes of the councell For if yow so say the inscription of the epistle out of the which these wordes ar taken â–ª sent by the councell to Nestorius will ouerthrow you and proue yow bothe liers The wordes ar these Religioso amabili consacerdoti Nestorio Cyrillus quicuque sunt apud Ephesi synodum To the religiouse and welbeloued of god our fellow priest Nestorius Cyrillus and as many as ar gathered together at the synode of Ephesus By the which it appeareth that there was in the sending of this epistle common consent and agrement of them all which is ynough to sober wyttes and honeâ—t iudgements to proue that this epistle is and so ought of all men to be taken laufull and authentike But what labour I to proue by the auncient fathers this terme verely or which is all one therewith Really which in Iohn Caluin him self is to be founde in his coÌ„mentaryes apoÌ„ S. Paules epistles where he writeth thus Concludo nobis realiter in coena dari Christi corpus vt sit animis nostris in cibum salutarem I conclude saith he that in the supper is giuen to vs really the body of Christ to be to our mindes a wholsom meate Thus haue yowe had proued to yowe M. Iuell that Christes body is in the sacrameÌ„t truly and that we may not so much as doubte thereof that it is there naturally for that was Hilarius meaning when he prooued that Christ dwelled naturally in vs and last of all as Caluin hath and yow haue hard really Here I feare not a little least after the manner of children that whine and whimper till they haue gotten at their mothers handes some trifling thing such as their childishe appetite listeth after which so soone as they haue once fingred they streight way cast in the durt and traÌ„ple vnder their feete You will play the like part with her that of right ought to be your mother the Catholike church of Christ. And whereas to satisfy your waÌ„ton request not for any necessitie that she knewe you stood in thereof she showeth you by good and laufull recordes and some other such as your self in times past haue accoÌ„pted for sound and worthy credit where the body of Christ hath bene said to haue bene in the sacrament truly naturally and really and myndeth to doe the like in your other termes demaunded hereafter I feare me I say least when yow haue all your asking yow handel them in such homely manner as was said before by casting them in to the mire of your distinctions as you vse them to subuert the truthe not durty but poysoned Symbolice Sacramentaliter Spiritualiter and such other Which if yow doe thincking that to such places as expressely mencion that Christes fleshe and bloud is truly present in the sacrament may be answered that it is there truly by a figure by a signe Sacramentally or Spiritually then how euer this seeme to be a childishe guise yeat will it prooue in the ende an old knauish practise of Valentinus the heretike and his mates who liued almost fourtien hundred yeares ago For he and his as yowe ar not I am suer ignorant denied that Christ had any true or naturall body such as mans nature consisteth of graunting neuerthelesse that he suffred in true fleshe on the crosse as yow will perhappes cleaâ—ing to your distinctions not denie that he hath fleshe and bloud truly in the sacrament Now euen as Irenaeus told them when they so said Neque enimesset verè sanguinem carnem haâ—ens per quam nos redemit nisi antiquam plasmationem Adae inse recapitulasset Christ should not truly haue had bloud and fleshe by the which he redemed vs onlesse he had renewed in him self the old shape of Adam so may we tell yow M. Iuell saing that Christes flesh and bloud is truly in the sacrament but yet in a figure in a signe onely and spiritually that then he is not there at all hauing true fleshe and blouâ—â— the same that the scriptures and fathers say he redemed vs with all except he be in that old shape of Adam And thus much of the termes verily or Really and naturally or by nature The next of your termes is substaÌ„tially after the which manner of being I prooue Christes body to be present in the sacrament by Irenaeus Who after many vaine opinions of Valentinus and his compagnions by him rehersed as that Christ had a certein fleshe brought with him from heauen not true or naturall such as oures is with other like inferreth thereapon these wordes Sic autem secundum haec videlicet nec dominus sanguine suo redemit nos neque panis quem frangimus communicatio corporis eius est Sanguis enim non est nisi a venis carnibus a reliqua que est secundum hominem substantia that is to say By this meanes neither did our
lord redeeme vs with his bloud neither the cup of the sacrament is any part of his bloud nor the bread the coÌ„munication of his body For bloud there can not be without there be vaines fleshe and other substance such as man is made of This place of Irenaeus good readers let it not I beseche yow belightly runne ouer For if any one of the rest prooue all M. Iuelles termes and more then he demaundeth toe by flesh and vaines this is it For the better vnderstanding whereof reteine well the cause that moued this auncieÌ„t father and learned bishop to write as he did The cause was the absurde doctrine of them that taught that Christ had no naturall fleshe such as we haue against whom he reasoned thus If he had no true body of such nature as oures is of then was not his bloud shed on the crosse then doe we not eate his fleshe nor drinck his bloud in the sacrament For as there could be no bloud shed on the Crosse so there can be none dronck on the altar except there be vaines fleshe and other substance of man Here haue yow proued to yow M. Iuell that Christes fleshe and bloud is present in the sacrameÌ„t in humain substance therefore substantially that there be vaines and fleshe such as bloud vseth to issue furth of therefore corporally carnally and realâ—y Of the which wordes of Irenaeus yow may if it please you gather also that so confessed a truthe it was emongest all men in that age that Christes blessed body was truly present in the sacrameÌ„t yea euen with the heretikes theÌ„ selues that the true suffring of the same apon the crosse was holden for no more certein and vndouted a truthe And truly if it had not so bene a pooer argument had Irenaeus made to induce any man to beleue that Christ had a true naturall body as we haue because there is fleshe vaines bloud and the very substance of man in the sacrament Whereas he ageinst whome he should so haue reasoned might haue bidden him goe proue first the grounde that he toke for the fundation to builde his reason apon that is that Christ wer present in such sort in the sacrameÌ„t and then to come to him again afterward But well wist he that the heretikes theÌ„ selues could not denie it and therefore he so reasoned After this manner of reasoning disputed Theophilus Bishop of Alexandria ageinst Origen who was in this errour that he thought the bodies should be after their resurrectioÌ„ mortall again and that after many other yeares passed ouer they should vanishe away and become nothing His wordes ar these Nec vanitatem appellamus substantiam corporalem vt ille astimat alijs verbis in Mâ—nichaei scita concidens ne Christi corpus suâ—iaceat vanitati cuius aedulio saturati ruminamus quotidieverba diceÌ„tis Nisi quis comederit car neÌ„ meaÌ„ etc. that is neither doe we call corporall substaÌ„ce vanitie as he thincketh OrigeÌ„ he meaneth falling thereby although in other wordes in to Manichaeus doctrine lest by that meanes Christes body might be subiect to vanitie with the foode whereof being filled we chewe daily the wordes of Christ saing except yow eate my fleshe c. What had here Theophilus ment to obiect to Origen that by this opinion of his it would follow that Christes body which we receiue and eate in the sacrament should vanish away and become vaine if it had bene there not in substance but in a figure or baresigne If he had not bene there corporally and substaÌ„tially to what purpose seing he spake of corporall substance mencyoned he his body in the sacrament and not rather the same being in heauen which no heretike could haue denied Truly we can no lesse doe but thinck that both for his greate learning and wisdom he would so haue doen had he not bene fully persuaded that the same body which is in heauen is in the same substance the same truthe of nature and in the same moment in the blessed sacrament of the altar Eusebius Emissenus when he taught the people that the visible creatures of breade and wyne ar turned in to the substance of Christes body and bloud said he not that Christes body is in the sacrament substantially Or Chrisostome when he taught the people QueÌ„admodum si caeraigni adhibita illi assimilatur nihil substaÌ„tiae remanet nihil superfluit Sic hic puta mysteria consumi corporis substantia Euen as wax if it be cast in to the fier becommeth like to the fier nothing of the substance remaineth nothing abundeth euen so thinck that here in the sacrament the misteries ar consumed with the substance of Christes body was his meaning thinck we any other I passe ouer here the testimonies for this matter that â—ight be brought out of the workes of that noble bishop Cirillus Bishop of Alexandriâ—â— who in sundry places there of absteineth not from thiese termes corporaliter substantialiter carnaliter corporally substantially carnally and diuerse other because I hope these which allready haue bene alleaged shalbe sufficient Or if this suffise not then beseche I you M. Iuell and your companions to drawe vs out in writing a forme of wordes to proue that Christes bodye and bloud ar present int the sacrament such as your selues will promise if we be hable to proue by the scriptures fathers or councels to stand to simply without adding thereto gloses distinctions or interpretacions When I minded here to haue knyt vp this knot behold it cam to my remembraunce that I had yet answered nothing to the foolishe and vnsauory reasons of your aduocat who so euer he be who more stoutely then wysely beareth out euen to the hard hedge this diuelish doctrine of yours First forsooth he beareth vs in hand that Christ when he sayed This is my body the same which shalbe betrayed for yow ment not that we should receaue his very true naturall and fleshly body but vsing a figure called Metonymia gaue the name of his bodie to the signe that is to the breade And this interpretation he saith maie be proued by a nombre of examples out of the canonicall scriptures as in one place where circuncision was called a couenauÌ„t being in deede but a signe and testimonie thereof in an other the paschall lambe called the passeouer Christe him selfe a vine a rocke with suche like But here note I beseche you good readers what a straÌ„ge kinde of reasoning this is In the scriptures is vsed a figuratiue kinde of speche in one two three fower or mo places Ergo Christ in that place where he instituted the sacrament is to be vnderstaÌ„d by a figure Or thus the scriptures speake figuratiuelie in some places Ergo in all and no where otherwise This kinde of Sophistication in arguing is the olde shift of the wicked Arrians who like as this man taketh awaie now from the blessed sacrament the verie bodie and blood of Christe
not therefore beleue that churche willing vs to giue no credite to Luther to Zuinglius to Caluin and such like seing we obeied it coÌ„maunding vs to beleue the gospell If it deceaue vs nowe in counceling vs not to beleue them What more assurance haue we that it might not doe the like in deliuering to vs the gospell THIRDLIE youre inconstancie in misliking one daie that which you praised th' other in chaunging youre opinioÌ„s as maketh best for youre purpose in vsing now in manie thinges the reasons of the Catholikes which once ye condemned When in the olde writers I finde that this was the very manner of the olde heretikes and considre on thother side how the Catholikes remaine alwaies settled and staied without change or innouation how so euer the course of time turning about alter many thinges to their disaduauntage this I say hath moued me not a little to rest rather with them then stray with yow neither yow nor I wot whither And because yow shall perceiue that I goe not about by false and sclaunderouse reportes to bring yow in hatred but haue noted trulie the maÌ„ner of youre proceding that you may the rather detest the same Call to youre remembraunce the changing and turning in and out of youre communion booke how the first was praised for vniformitie to be agreing with Christes institution and the vsage of the primitiue churche and yet in how shorte a space that being takeÌ„ awaie yow broughte in a newe to the first in the principall pointes cleane contrary to Christes institution and the order neuerthelesse of the primitiue churche as agreable iust as was the first And yeat that whether it be in all pointes as ye minde to haue it squared and trimmed youre self and youre coÌ„panions perhappes can tell wise men that knowe the nature of heresie and haue obserued the practise and ordre of youre procedinges thinke vereily no. And whether yow youre self M. Iuell haue at any time by priuate letters to Frauncis Baldwin cast out anie by wordes to that effect of chaunging some such thinges which yet yow take to be but grenelie handled apon better laisure you knowe best your selfe at the least he hath so reported of you But because what yow will doe hangeth but apon vncerteine euentes I shall leauing that as likely whereof yow haue giuen vehement presumptions put yow in remembraunce that there was a time when youre nombre was yet but small that the Catholikes laide to youre charge that their doctrine was vâ—iuersallie receauid of all meÌ„ and in all places which no doute Christe assisting alwaies according to his promise his churche and not suffring hell gates which one righte well interpreteth to be ment of heresies to preuaile ageinst the same coulde neuer haue bene had their doctrine bene false and that youres was such as comming sodenlie no man wist from whence had onelie founde entreteinemteÌ„ at the handes of a fewe miserable men who either for the lothesomnes of some streight and peinefull profession that theie before had bounde them selues vnto gredelie desired now to walcke in the wide fieldes and brode waie of that large and lewde libertie which theie sawe to be openlie proclaimed by yow other elles thorough plaine desperation of thriuing in their present state looked after some change which as theie trusted might better the same so wer theie suer coulde empaire it neuer At which time ye coulde glorie in youre fewenes with boasting on the scriptures wronglie vnderstoode that Christes flocke was but little that manie were called but fewe chosen with such like Now beholde youre inconstancie I praye yow After that youre heresies haue gotteÌ„ in a greate parte of Germanie in England Fraunce Scotland and elles where some more libertie and freer passage as though all the world were on youre side you vaunte youre selues of youre nombre and make in youre Apologie a necessarie argument that youre doctrine must nedes be true and sounde which notwithstanding so manie enemies such a nombre of backe friendes as from the beginning it hath had hath yeat at the length founde such happie successe â–ª as that now it ruffleth in the courtes and palaces of noble men O you that triuÌ„pheas ye doe of this little which yet o god is by all were thy will otherwise to muche and yet in dede compared with the rest of the Catholikes or with that nombre and power that in his time Arrius his heresie was of verie little what woulde ye theÌ„ haue saide how woulde yow haue taken vp the Catholikes reasons of generalitie and consent which now ye set so little by if yow might once haue gotten that aduantage by th' ende which now of youre small scattred coÌ„pany brag and boaste so much Euen thus did as S. Austen rereporteth of them those perniciouse heretikes the Donatistes Who when at the first theie were but fewe bragged therein afterward when theie were groweÌ„ to be manie triumphed likewise in their nombre The Arrians also when thâ—ie were so now encreased that theie had gotteÌ„ the emperour of the worlde besides a greate nombre of bishoppes and priestes almost all to take parte with them had theie not trowe yow M. Iuell as good cause if happie successe ageinst all enemies and gainesaiers be a cause to triumphe then as yow haue now Yea trulie in all mennes iudgement theie had But euen as of them Hilarius the bishop saide Antea in obscuro atque in angulis D. Christus Deiesse secundum naturam filius negabatur c. In times pastour lorde Christe was denied to be the naturall sonne of god and was preached hauing no parte of his fathers substaÌ„ce to haue had his beginning commoÌ„ with other creatures of nothing and thus much onelie in hocker mocker But nowe heresie breaking in apon vs by the helpe and fauour of publike auctoritie triumpheth of that like a coÌ„querour which before she whispered in corners like a micher so maie we at this time iustlie saie of you And therefore we enuie not youre sorie ioye wherewith yow woulde seme to make your selues merie but contrarie wise doe pitie much your case who seing how you arre dailie driuen to such miserable shiftes that yow ar faine after the manner of suche olde heretikes as haue heretofore vexed the churche to change with the time youre opinions haue not yeat the grace to perceiue the same and to mislike that doctrine which can not come forwarde but by such meanes as heresies haue doen. When it serued youre tuâ—ne yow defended stoutelie with toothe and naile that a woman might not gouerne a realme laufullie descended vnto her no not in ciuile and politike matters Within how fewe yeares yea monethes after taught ye the time so seruing for youre purpose and yet doe that a woman maie rule not a realme in temporall thinges but the churche in spirituall I am not ignorant of your excuse in this behalfe which is to couer youre malice with the cloke of a straunger and so to
conuey the faulte from youre selues to an other But the truthe is well knowen to be far otherwise bothe by him who for that that he was a principall doer therein lurcketh presentlie in Scotland and also by that other who so euer he wer that made the booke entituled the harborough for faithefull subiectes Who entending to laie all the burden vpon a straungiers backe hauing forgotten by misfortune the chiefe rule of his arte that a lier should be mindefull euen in the first leafe of his booke declareth him to haue bene an EnglishemaÌ„ when in begging as it were a pardon for him he vsethe thiese wordes considering the griefe vvhich like a good membre of that bodie vvhich then sufâ—red he felt and afterwarde he declareth that that bodie was England and no other Yow maie remembre it is not so long sence when to put men to deathe for religion was a thinge horrible yow saide and expresselie ageinst the worde of god and charitie of the ghospell Nowe the sworde being as yow thincke in your handes yowe teache in your lessons yow crie out in youre sermons and neuer left crieng till yow had brought it to passe that it was decreed by publike auctoritie that such as in religion beleue not as yow doe bothe may and ought to suffer deathe therefore And surelie if the Quene oure moste graciouse ladie would alter the present state of religion yow woulde not faile shortly to sing youre olde songe againe that for religion no man ought to be punished by deathe and I feare me assaie either with some such feditiouse booke as ageinst Quene Marie ye made or by some other practise of which youre parte lacketh no store to remoue her from all manner of gouernement both spirituall and temporall For if youre libertie in the lorde be such as ageinst youre prince that pleaseth yow not yow can saie nothing to much as the author of the harborough saithe he could not that wrote the blast ageinst the gouernement of women had he kept him selfe in the particuler parson of his souereigne lady Quene Mary who douteth but that yow would vse it And for the better proufe hereof I referre me to that booke of late made by your companions of the succession whereby euery man that wit hath may easely perceiue vpon such premisses what conclusion was to be looked for none other forsoothe then the speedy dispatch of her whose clemency being oure gratiouse and souereigne lady because it coulde be brought by no meanes to serue youre furiouse sprite you thought to worcke by other meanes and to prouide for the maintenaunce of youre kingdome youre selues But this power ar ye growen vnto whereof I maruell also that ye make not youre vauntes that ye can make kinges and depose them when ye lyâ—t This mutabilitie and inconstancie in youre owne doctrine in so shorte a space in youre communion first one while decreing that it be ministred in common and leauened bread by and by reuoking that and bringing it to vnleauened at one time coÌ„maunding that youre seruice be in all places vsed in the Englishe tongue not long after chaunging the same in some places in to the latine and yet that reiected once againe and the Englishe restored and all this within the space of little more theÌ„ a yeare This daie youre coÌ„munion table placed in the middâ—st of the quier the nexte daie remoued in to the bodie of the churche at the thirde time placed in the chauncel againe after the manner of an altar but yet remoueable as there is anie communion to be had Then youre ministres face one while to be turned towardes the Southe an other while towardes the northe that the wethercocke on the toppe of the stieple hathe bene noted not to haue turned so ofteÌ„ in the space of one quarter of a yeare as youre ministre hath bene caused benethe in the bottom of the churche in lesse then one monethe as though yow coulde not sufficientlie declare howe restles an euell heresie is excepte yow muste make youre communion table to ronne aboute the churche the ministre first after it and then rounde aboute it to expresse the same This inconstancie I saie and tottring in and oute first aboute the ordre of youre communioÌ„ and then in other thinges before noted causeth diuerse men and emongest the nombre my selfe to suspecte youre doctrine of newnesse because naturallie we see this hurlie burlie and shifting in and putting oute to chauÌ„ce in thinges at their first beginning and contrarie wise neuer in those that haue bene of long and settled continuance If such a communion as yow now haue deuised had euer bene before yow shoulde haue founde presideÌ„tes and formes thereof that shoulde haue directed yow so certeinelie that yow neuer could haue fallen in to this inconuenience of making and marring building and pulling downe But yow had no such forme and therefore I maruell not if it happened vnto yow as it hath THE fowerth cause or consideration that hath moued me hath bene this that besides youre owne misliking with youre owne doinges I finde which is a suer marcke wherebie to knowe the false and malignant churche that yow arre at dissensioâ— emongest youre selues one with an other which hath not neither begonne of late but euen as the poet fained of Cadmus men sprange vppe together with that vnhappie seede of your deuelishe doctrine What shoulde I heare trouble youre eares with the vnpleasant remembrance of that implacable dissension for which euen at this daie their ofspringe ar one with an other at deadlie foode of youre first parentes Luther and Zuinglius or of youre elder brothers Caluin and Oecolampadius What shoulde I remembre youre owne good agrement at home which youre last assemblie in youre conuocation hath made to all the realme so manifest and well knowen And yet is this dissension of youres not in owtewarde ceremonies or triffling matters as yo we woulde haue men to beleue or in the diuersitie of apparell as wherewith for lacke of other stuffe to the greate defacing of youre parte yowe arre constreined to charge vs but in the highest misteries and greatest pointes of oure religion For howe manie opinions ar there emongest yow coÌ„cerning the iustificatioÌ„ of a Christian man howe manie of the valew of good worckes howe manie aboute baptesme howe agree yow with youre late head that calleth god the author of their damnation that arre damned excepte yowe call him so toe how can yow be saide to agree who call that laufull which the chiefe of youre coÌ„panie calleth blasphemie howe agree yow with youre selues in that highe misterie of the sacrament of Christes bodie and blood of whome some of yow and the better some to if learning and honestie maie take anie place defende with Luther Christes reall presence in the sacrament other some with Zuinglius denie the same My leisor serueth me not M. Iuell or if it did my purpose is not here which a iust volume woulde scarse receiue
the actes of heretikes theues paganes Iewes and diuelles yow yeat chalenge the gloriouse title of true Christians and good catholikes THE nexte cause hathe bene for that I finde in youre religion no certeine rules or principles to builde vpon but such as hauing hetherto bene chalenged by all the auncient heretikes for theirs maie welbe called starting holes for youre foxishe generation being sore pressed to flee vnto For proufe whereof graunte to an heretike those principles which yow demaunde to be graunted to yow of which these arre parte that nothing is necessarily to be beleuid and folowed as a truthe but thaâ— which maie expressely be founde in the lettre of the scrip ture that of the sence of goâ—des worde and true meaning thereof there is no other iudge then the scripture it â—elf as of the which one place faileth not to expounde an other that Christes churche is inuisible with such like and there was neuer yeat heresie so absurde but that he wilbe able ageinst yow and all youre companions to defenâ—e it Whereas the catholikes on the other side haue for theire parte such contrary groundes as wherewith the auncient writers haue alwaies contended ageinst the olde and auncient heretikes For they saie with S. Basile that many thinges haue bene deliuered to vs necessary to be beleâ—ed by Christ and his apostles whereof the scripture maketh no mention at all They teache with S. Austen as yow harde before in the first cause that the churche of Christ is visible And with him also they arre bolde to saie that in doutefull questions arising apon the vnderstanding of the lettre we must appeale to the churches determination AN other reason in the prosecuting whereof also I must craue pardon at youre haÌ„des if perhappes it chauÌ„ce me to touche youre parson more neerer then yow woulde I should remembring alwaies that eae maximè sunt salutaria remedia quae acerbissimeÌ„ doloruÌ„ faciunt is for that yourâ— doctrine being first grounded and then continually after supported and mainteined by lies it can by no meanes be that it euer should procede from the spirite of god Which being the spirite of all truthe hath no nede of the helpe of lyes to be vnderpropped withall Be not your lyes M. Iuell in slaundring of men in false translations in wronge allegations vttred the rather to deceaue without cotatioÌ„s in mangling and tearing of the Doctours and Councells as it pleaseth yowe and best maie make for your purpose so manifest and to the worlde so well knowen that theie can be concealed no longer What opinion might thinke yow the Councell of late assembled the moste vertuouse learned and wisest heades of the worlde haue of yow and youre doinges when in youre Apologie emongest so manie lies â—heie founde that of all other moste grosse and impudent in which yow sclaundred so wickedlie the flower of this age Hosius the Cardinall What maie youre owne countrie men thinke of youre religion when to place it the more easely there yow feined as I noted before in comparing yow with the Donatistes that the catholike bisshoppes had consented to the banishing out of the realme the pope and his auctoritie But hereof I forbeare to write anie more forasmuch as it hath by me allready benâ— sufficiently vrged Onely of this I can not but warne yow mine owne deare countrie men to take good hede to haue alwaies a diligent eye to this lieng and suttell generation and to thincke euer with youre selues that they who in thinges so euident and manifest done at home euen at youre owne noses haue not refreined so impudently to abuse yow will make no curtosie or haue any conscience in thinges more more secrete or priuey to do the same And therefore maruell not by the waie that M. Haddon hath borne Hieronimus Osorius a straungier a Portugall a man ignorant of oure affaires in hande that religion was not altered in this realme nisi conspirantibus ecclesiae proceribus but by the consente of the bishoppes or that he made him of oure abbayes this accounte that they were distâ—ibuted pios ad vsus scholarum A cademiarum Zenodochiorum to the godlye vses that is to saie of scholes of vniuâ—rsities and hospitalles That the pope for a certeine ordinarie tribute to be to him yearelie paied giueth his priestes free licences and dispensations vnder his greate seale openly to kepe concubines without controllemeÌ„t is it not an abhominable lie Of that reuerende olde man and greate learned clerke M. Doctour Clement whome in youre Apologye yow haue also to the worlde moste shamefully sclaundred what shall I heare speake seing that he religiously denieâ—h that fact which yow barely without proufes without witnesses layâ— to his charge Which deniall of his I doubte not shall emongest the better sorte be taken to be of as greate force against youre false and vntrue reporte as was the answere of Aemilius Scaurus that noble Romaine made in fewe wordes to the long and odiouse oration of his infamouse accuser Varius Sucronensis vttred before the people of Rome in these wordes Quiâ—â—tes Varius Sucronensis ait Aemilius Scaurus negat vtri crediâ—â—â— That is to saie Varius Sucronensis O ye Romaines affirmeth Aemilius Scaurus denieth whether thincke you it best to beleue The which wordes were no soner spoken so well werâ— their honesties bothe knowen to the people but he was with greate applause of the commons pronounced innocent and his aduersarie coÌ„demned in his owne action If to establishe youre doctrine yow vse thus to sclaunder and belie the aduersaries thereof two thinges will folowe thereapon First that yow shall take from vs all manner of merueile why yow so falselie reporte the olde fathers who were to this worlde so manie a hundred yeare sence deade seing that euen of them who be yeat a liue whose bookes and tongues whose bodies and whole liues manifestlie beare witnesse of the contrarie yow doe the like And secondarily yow shall giue men occasion to thincke that such doctrine is verie weake the which to be vnderpropped must haue such staies What shoulde we iudge of youre translation of the holie scriptures who turn the worde idolum or simulachrum in to the worde imago an image and this forsothe to make vs beleue that all the passages of scripture that speake ageinst the heathen and Gentils Idols speake also ageinst the Christians images as though betwene an idoll and an image there were no difference at all What ment yow but to bring the ordre of priestehode in hatred when in all places of youre Englishe bibles where priestes haue bene praised where anie thing soundeth to their commendation yowe call them ministres absteining vtterlie from the name of priestes whereas contrarie wise where their behaueor hathe bene euell yow spare not that name but vse it frelie Castalio whose translation of the bible is so well liked by youre parte when he cam to that place in the ghospell Dic ecclâ—siae tell the churche
sit vs downe and make oure accompt as though we wer certeinlie sure that we shalbe saued but that we must still labour and worcke oure owne saluation cum timore tremore with feare and trembling Theie teache men that for their sinnes theie must not onelie lament and be hartelie forie which yow saie suffiseth but that if time also and leisor theretoe serue theie must take by penance vpon themselues vengeance as iâ— wer therefore Theie teache also with S. Austen that to confesse oure sinnes to god onelieis not ynoughe but that we must laie them also in the lap of the prieste a mortall man and a sinner as greate perhappes as we ar And this remission of sinnes by confession and penance doe Origen and Cirill call a harde and a peinefull waie And trulie so is it and so shoulde it be and all yeat little ynough and a greate deale to little toe to bridle that wilde and vntamed nature of oures from sinning Now see yow I doute not M. Iuell whose doctrine hathe wroughte this disordre in the worlde or if yowe doe not listen I beseche yowe a little to youre fellowes disputing after this sorte vpon their maisters good enstructions and I trust yowe shall If we be so predestinate saie theie to be saued or damned that by no meanes it can be otherwise if good worckes be nothing auaileable to the doers if onelie faithe doe iustifie then let vs cast them at the papistes heades that teache them To what ende serue theie that neither can in Christes deathe saue vs from hell nor helpe vs to heauen Or whie labour we at all to doe well if we haue not oure will free to be the worcker thereof If sinne be so easelie forgiuen as oure maisters beare vs in hande if one thought serue vs to repent our life if penance be nedelesse if we nede not to confesse our sinnes to the prieste which onelie thing made vs for worldlie shame full often to forbeare the doing of manie a horrible crime then will we suerlie forbeare no ynche of our pleasure whilest we ar here then will we score on goddes mercie and recon with him for all at the last Thus much although theie saie not in expresse wordes yet speake theie in their wicked deedes And therefore seing in the comparison of these fewe pointes betwene yow and vs I finde so manie occasions giuen by youre doctrine to this disordre seing there be no such to be founde in oures but that contrariewise all that we â—aughte and yowe woulde ouerthrowe tended to the contrarie I can saie no more but to me it â—emeth a cause sufficient to abhorre the same These be the causes that haue kepte me in the catholike faithe these be theie that maie iustlie call yowe thither againe from whence yowe ar straied and will I nothing doubte if yowe faile not to youre selfe For trulie if yow will but make an exchaunge of pride with humilitie if yow will laye downe that proude pecockes taile of youres esteme youre selfe somwhat lesse and other men somewhat more yow shall easely gaine againe that quiet hauen of Christes churche from whence the blustring tempestes of pride droue yowe in to the maine sea and daungerouse goulf of heresies Be not ashamed yow which haue hethertoe kepte companie with wicked heretikes to folowe in youre returne the example of some droncken soule who hauing perhappes in his dronckennesse leaped some dauÌ„gerouse leape or passed some other notable perill which no man hauing his right wittes woulde haue doen in giuing the aduenture whereapon the oddes was greate thaâ— he shoulde haue miscaried being broughte by his frindes on the morrowe sobre to the daunger that he escaped the nighte before being dronâ—ken and tolde of his aduenture first lifteth vp his hart and handes to almightie god whome he thanâ—kâ—th moste humblie for the preferuing of him from so imminent and present a daunger nexte he maketh an earnest and solemne vowe to vse after that such temperancie and sobrietie as he will neuer by the contrarie minisâ—re anie occasion to fall in to the like If yowe had not bene as dronâ—ken M. Iuell with pride as euer was anie with wine woulde yow one emongest so manie of your side haue made this chalenge which of the rest none woulde attempt to doe woulde yow haue euer called it blasphemie to saie that Christe is in the Masse offred vp to god his father which S. Austen affirmeth and Chrisostoâ— faith that Christe coÌ„maunded to be done woulde yow haue euer alleaged this weake and feble reason to haue proued youre saing because contrariewise Christe presenteth vp vs and maketh vs a sweete oblation in the fighte of god his father whereas yowe finde in S. AusteÌ„ Sacerdos est ipse offerens ipsâ— oblatiâ— Christe is the prieste him selfe which offreth this sacrifice and the oblation which is offred and in Chrisostomes Masse Tu es offerens oblatus suscipiens distributus Thow art he which offrâ—st and art offered which receiuest and art distributed By which places it appeareth that it is no such absurditie as yow woulde haue it to â—eme that Christe shoulde in this sacrament bothe offer and be offred This being therefore a cleare case that yow haue showed your selfe in this chalenge of youres a man if not dronken trulie starâ—ke mad loke on the daungers that in the meane season by the goodnes of god yow haue bene preserued from looke I saie vpon and beholde that depe pitte in to the which with so manie heretikes before yowe had not the mercifull hande of god staide yowe and holden yow vp yowe had long ere this fallen Thancke him of his goodnes therefore which hath so mercifullie borne with yowe and not taken yow as he mighte if he woulde at the worst Propose for the loue of god with youre selfe neuer hereafter to commit the like I wot not whether to call it either dronâ—ken or franticke parte If the causes aboue rehersed doe nothing moue you thereto if the feare of god if your owne coÌ„science pricke yowe not let yet this persuade you to leaue those vaine bragges at the which youre friendes blushe wise meÌ„ laughe and the aduersaries of youre doctrine them selues vtterlie contemne at the least for that youre impudencie being discouered your credite is lost and youre estimatioÌ„ gone so that ye shall but waste wordes in vaine which euell spent might better be spared Crie oute as Dioscorus that heretike did being condemned by the councell of Calcedon as longe as yowe list eueÌ„ till youre uoice if you will faile you Ego testimonia habeo sanctoruÌ„ patruÌ„ A thanasiâ— Gregorij c. Ego cuÌ„ patribus cijcior Ego defendo patrum dogmata non transgreaior in aliquo I hâ—ue for my parte the testimonie of the holie fathers A thanasius Gregorius I am cast out with the fathers I defende their doctrine I violate no parte thereof Brag with Eunomius the heretike that yowe