confutation_n can_v there_o be_v then_o by_o your_o own_o word_n the_o believer_n see_v for_o if_o he_o see_v how_o do_v he_o believe_v or_o if_o he_o believe_v how_o do_v he_o see_v especial_o since_o you_o say_v he_o believe_v and_o see_v upon_o the_o same_o formal_a object_n or_o motive_n yet_o that_o scripture_n be_v know_v by_o itself_o you_o prove_v out_o of_o bellarmine_n who_o saych_a that_o the_o scripture_n 2._o scripture_n de_fw-fr verb._n deilib_n 1._o çap._n 2._o which_o be_v contain_v in_o the_o prophetical_a and_o apostolical_a write_n be_v most_o certain_a and_o divine_a scripture_n itself_o witness_v but_o these_o word_n will_v prove_v to_o be_v against_o yourself_o for_o bellarmine_n in_o that_o place_n dispute_v against_o the_o swenckfeldian_a heretic_n who_o deny_v all_o scripture_n say_v that_o he_o do_v not_o allege_v ibid._n allege_v ibid._n testimony_n of_o scripture_n as_o if_o he_o think_v that_o his_o adversary_n make_v any_o great_a account_n of_o they_o 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testimony_n of_o the_o church_n by_o mean_n of_o tradition_n whereof_o bellarmine_n say_v this_o so_o necessary_a a_o point_n to_o wit_n that_o 4._o that_o deverb_v dei_fw-la nonseripro_fw-la lib._n 4._o c._n 4._o there_o be_v some_o divine_a scripture_n can_v be_v have_v from_o scripture_n itself_o whereby_o it_o be_v manifest_a that_o you_o plain_o corrupt_v bellarmine_n meaning_n when_o you_o go_v about_o to_o prove_v out_o of_o he_o that_o scripture_n can_v be_v prove_v by_o scripture_n alone_o the_o contrary_a whereof_o he_o affirm_v and_o prove_v at_o large_a against_o the_o heretic_n of_o these_o time_n the_o place_n which_o you_o cite_v of_o origen_n only_o prove_v that_o those_o who_o already_o believe_v the_o canonical_a book_n of_o scripture_n may_v prove_v out_o of_o they_o that_o scripture_n be_v divine_o inspire_v as_o s._n peter_n 21._o peter_n epist._n 2._o vers_fw-la 21._o say_v neither_o do_v the_o authority_n of_o saluianus_n prove_v any_o thing_n else_o 10._o your_o say_n that_o we_o yield_v to_o the_o church_n a_o absolute_a 144.145_o absolute_a pag._n 144.145_o unlimited_a authority_n to_o propound_v what_o she_o please_v and_o a_o unlimited_a power_n to_o supply_v the_o defect_n of_o scripture_n i_o let_v pass_v as_o mere_a slander_n as_o also_o that_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n be_v absolute_a not_o 144._o not_o pag._n 144._o depend_v on_o scripture_n but_o on_o which_o the_o scripture_n itself_o depend_v and_o you_o can_v be_v ignorant_a of_o that_o which_o have_v be_v so_o often_o inculcate_v by_o catholic_a writer_n that_o the_o scripture_n in_o themselves_o do_v not_o depend_v on_o the_o church_n but_o only_o in_o respect_n of_o we_o who_o learno_fw-la from_o she_o what_o book_n be_v canonical_a scripture_n which_o be_v to_o say_v not_o the_o scripture_n but_o our_o weak_a understanding_n and_o knowledge_n of_o scripture_n rely_v on_o the_o church_n which_o our_o saviour_n christ_n command_v we_o to_o hear_v and_o yourself_o grant_v that_o the_o church_n 142.143_o church_n pag._n 142.143_o be_v the_o ordinary_a outward_a mean_n to_o present_v and_o propound_v divine_a verity_n to_o our_o faith_n you_o will_v not_o deny_v that_o your_o knowledge_n of_o the_o trinity_n incarnation_n etc._n etc._n depend_v on_o scripture_n will_v you_o thence_o in_o fer_fw-fr that_o the_o bless_a trinity_n incarnation_n etc._n etc._n in_o themselves_o depend_v on_o scripture_n as_o if_o god_n have_v not_o be_v god_n unless_o scripture_n have_v be_v write_v beside_o to_o such_o as_o believe_v scripture_n we_o may_v prove_v the_o church_n herself_o by_o scripture_n and_o she_o in_o all_o her_o definition_n do_v consult_v examine_v and_o submit_v herself_o to_o scripture_n against_o which_o she_o never_o do_v nor_o ever_o can_v define_v any_o thing_n &_o in_o this_o sense_n also_o she_o depend_v on_o scripture_n but_o to_o make_v good_a your_o slander_n you_o 144._o you_o pag._n 144._o cite_v bellarmine_n after_o your_o wont_a fashion_n if_o we_o take_v away_o testimonium_fw-la away_o de_fw-fr effect_n sacram._n lib._n 2._o cap._n 25._o §_o tertium_fw-la testimonium_fw-la the_o authority_n of_o the_o present_a church_n of_o rome_n this_o of_o rome_n be_v your_o addition_n and_o of_o the_o trent-councell_n the_o decree_n of_o all_o other_o ancient_a counsel_n and_o the_o whole_a christian_a faith_n may_v be_v question_v as_o doubtful_a for_o the_o strength_n of_o all_o doctrine_n and_o of_o all_o counsel_n depend_v upon_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o present_a church_n will_v not_o one_o think_v by_o these_o word_n that_o the_o strength_n of_o all_o doctrine_n depend_v on_o the_o church_n whereas_o bellarmine_n only_o say_v that_o we_o can_v not_o infallible_o know_v that_o there_o be_v such_o general_n counsel_n and_o that_o they_o be_v law_n full_a counsel_n and_o that_o they_o define_v this_o or_o that_o but_o because_o the_o present_a church_n which_o can_v err_v do_v so_o believe_v and_o teach_v us._n which_o word_n demonstrate_v that_o bellarmine_n do_v not_o speak_v of_o faith_n or_o doctrine_n in_o themselves_o but_o in_o respect_n of_o us._n and_o do_v not_o you_o yourself_o teach_v that_o it_o be_v the_o church_n which_o direct_v we_o to_o scripture_n and_o that_o she_o likewise_o be_v the_o ordinary_a outward_a mean_n to_o present_v and_o propound_v divine_a verity_n without_o which_o propesition_n no_o object_n can_v be_v convey_v to_o our_o 142.143_o our_o pag._n 142.143_o faith_n and_o what_o be_v this_o but_o to_o acknowledge_v that_o in_o the_o ordinary_a way_n without_o the_o guidance_n direction_n and_o proposition_n of_o the_o church_n we_o have_v no_o faith_n at_o all_o 11._o you_o likewise_o cite_v these_o word_n out_o of_o est_fw-la of_o de_fw-fr eccles_n mil._n lib._n 3._o cap._n 10_o §._o ad_fw-la haec_fw-la necesse_fw-la est_fw-la bellarmine_n the_o scripture_n tradition_n and_o all_o doctrine_n whatsoever_o depend_v on_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n he_o mean_v say_v you_o that_o of_o rome_n without_o which_o all_o be_v whole_o uncertain_a but_o bellarmine_n word_n be_v these_o since_o the_o scripture_n tradition_n and_o all_o doctrine_n whatsoever_o depend_v upon_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n all_o thing_n will_v be_v uncertaync_a unless_o we_o be_v most_o assure_v which_o be_v the_o true_a church_n you_o see_v bellarmine_n speak_v not_o of_o the_o particular_a church_n of_o rome_n as_o you_o in_o your_o parenthesis_n will_v make_v he_o seem_v to_o speak_v and_o as_o for_o the_o universal_a true_a church_n what_o principle_n of_o atheis_fw-la i_o be_v it_o as_o you_o very_o exorbitant_o 145_o exorbitant_o pag._n 145_o affirm_v to_o say_v that_o if_o we_o do_v not_o know_v which_o be_v the_o true_a church_n we_o can_v have_v no_o certainty_n of_o scripture_n tradition_n or_o any_o thing_n else_o do_v you_o think_v that_o it_o be_v safe_a to_o take_v the_o scripture_n upon_o the_o credit_n of_o a_o false_a church_n as_o well_o may_v you_o take_v they_o upon_o the_o
but_o in_o some_o sort_n the_o word_n of_o god_n that_o be_v utter_v by_o the_o assistance_n and_o direction_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n nay_o i_o say_v that_o the_o heretic_n be_v those_o who_o indeed_o lean_a on_o a_o rot_a staff_n and_o then_o he_o come_v to_o the_o word_n which_o you_o cite_v for_o we_o must_v know_v that_o a_o proposition_n of_o faith_n be_v conclude_v in_o this_o syllogism_n whatsoever_o god_n have_v reveal_v in_o scripture_n be_v true_a god_n have_v reveal_v this_o in_o scripture_n ergo_fw-la it_o be_v true_a of_o the_o premise_n in_o this_o syllogism_n the_o first_o be_v most_o certain_a among_o all_o the_o second_o be_v most_o firm_a or_o certain_a among_o catholic_n for_o it_o rely_v on_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n council_n or_o pope_n here_o you_o break_v off_o but_o bellarmine_n add_v of_o which_o we_o have_v in_o holy_a scripture_n manifest_a promise_n that_o they_o can_v err_v act._n 15._o it_o have_v seem_v to_o the_o holy_a ghost_n &_o to_o we_o and_o luke_n 22._o i_o have_v pray_v for_o thou_o that_o thy_o faith_n may_v not_o fail_v but_o among_o heretic_n it_o do_v rely_v only_o upon_o conjecture_n or_o the_o judgement_n of_o one_o own_o spirit_n which_o for_o the_o most_o part_n seem_v good_a and_o be_v ill_a and_o since_o the_o conclusion_n follow_v the_o weak_a part_n it_o necessary_o follow_v that_o the_o whole_a faith_n of_o heretic_n be_v but_o conjectural_a and_o uncertain_a thus_o far_o bellarmine_n and_o now_o wherein_o i_o pray_v you_o consist_v his_o contradict_v both_o himself_o and_o his_o fellow_n perhaps_o you_o mean_v because_o here_o he_o teach_v that_o every_o proposition_n of_o faith_n must_v be_v reveal_v in_o scripture_n and_o therefore_o contradict_v his_o other_o doctrine_n that_o beside_o scripture_n there_o be_v unwritten_a tradition_n but_o the_o vanity_n of_o this_o objection_n will_v by_o and_o by_o appear_v among_o your_o other_o corruption_n which_o now_o i_o set_v down_o first_o you_o 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no_o unwritten_a tradition_n a_o goodly_a contradiction_n three_o where_o do_v bellarmine_n ever_o teach_v that_o the_o proposal_n of_o the_o church_n can_v make_v any_o unwritten_a verity_n to_o become_v matter_n of_o faith_n as_o you_o speak_v the_o church_n do_v not_o make_v verity_n to_o be_v matter_n of_o faith_n but_o only_o declare_v they_o to_o be_v such_o four_o you_o leave_v out_o the_o word_n which_o clear_o explicate_v in_o what_o sense_n the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n may_v be_v say_v to_o be_v humane_a or_o divine_a by_o which_o your_o argument_n to_o prove_v that_o the_o declaration_n of_o the_o church_n can_v be_v a_o sufficient_a ground_n of_o faith_n have_v be_v answer_v and_o your_o fallacy_n discover_v fifih_o bellarmine_n never_o affirm_v as_o you_o say_v he_o do_v that_o the_o strength_n and_o truth_n of_o the_o minor_a in_o the_o say_a syllogism_n depend_v on_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n but_o only_o that_o it_o be_v most_o certain_a among_o 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to_o the_o former_a way_n she_o shall_v indeed_o be_v above_o the_o scripture_n but_o this_o we_o do_v not_o say_v though_o we_o be_v calumniate_v by_o the_o heretic_n as_o if_o we_o do_v who_o every_o where_n cry_v out_o that_o we_o put_v the_o scripture_n under_o the_o pope_n foot_n but_o that_o the_o church_n or_o pope_n do_v judge_v of_o scripture_n in_o the_o latter_a sense_n which_o we_o affirm_v be_v not_o to_o say_v that_o the_o church_n be_v above_o scripture_n but_o above_o the_o sudgment_n of_o private_a person_n for_o the_o church_n do_v not_o judge_v of_o the_o truth_n of_o scripture_n but_o of_o the_o understanding_n of_o thou_o and_o i_o and_o other_o neither_o do_v the_o word_n of_o god_n receive_v strength_n thereby_o but_o only_o my_o understanding_n receive_v it_o for_o the_o scripture_n be_v not_o more_o true_a or_o certain_a because_o it_o be_v so_o expound_v by_o the_o church_n but_o my_o opinion_n
if_o you_o answer_v i_o at_o all_o i_o beseech_v you_o forget_v not_o this_o demand_n and_o whether_o the_o observation_n of_o they_o be_v not_o holy_a and_o forasmuch_o as_o belong_v to_o that_o particular_a object_n a_o perfect_a cbristian_a fast_o and_o meritorious_a in_o that_o sense_n and_o degree_n according_a to_o which_o you_o grant_v that_o other_o work_n be_v meritorious_a or_o deserve_v a_o reward_n for_o the_o other_o part_n of_o your_o objection_n that_o he_o that_o eat_v flesh_n in_o lent_n be_v punish_v with_o a_o more_o grievous_a penance_n than_o he_o that_o blaspheme_v etc._n etc._n you_o show_v how_o modest_a a_o man_n you_o be_v and_o with_o all_o that_o you_o be_v little_o see_v either_o in_o the_o canon_n or_o civil_a law_n for_o the_o civil_a law_n command_v that_o 77._o that_o in_o authentiea_n we_o non_fw-la luxurientur_fw-la homines_fw-la novel_a 77._o blasphemer_n shall_v be_v punish_v with_o death_n because_o say_v the_o law_n hunger_n and_o earthquake_n and_o plague_n come_v by_o reason_n of_o such_o crime_n in_o the_o matediçiâ—â—_n the_o cap._n statuimus_fw-la de_fw-fr matediçiâ—â—_n canon_n law_n blasphemer_n beside_o other_o punishment_n be_v to_o stand_v as_o penitent_n at_o the_o church_n door_n for_o the_o space_n of_o some_o sunday_n and_o for_o some_o friday_n to_o fast_o in_o bread_n &_o water_n etc._n etc._n and_o by_o other_o decree_n of_o pope_n the_o same_o sin_n be_v grievous_o punish_v as_o in_o particular_a the_o council_n of_o lateran_n under_o leo_n the_o 10._o command_n that_o none_o be_v absolve_v from_o blasphemy_n without_o a_o grievous_a penance_n and_o to_o the_o same_o purpose_n julius_n iii_o and_o pius_n v._o have_v make_v very_o severe_a decree_n nevertheless_o it_o be_v also_o true_a that_o great_a punishment_n may_v in_o foro_fw-la externo_fw-la be_v appoint_v for_o some_o sin_n which_o be_v less_o than_o other_o as_o s._n thomas_n do_v 1._o do_v 1.2_o q._n 105._o be_v 2._o ad_fw-la 9_o and_o 2.2_o q._n 39_o art_n 2._o ad_fw-la 1._o true_o affirm_v do_v not_o yourselves_o more_o usual_o punish_v such_o as_o without_o licence_n eat_v flesh_n in_o lent_n then_o they_o who_o take_v the_o name_n of_o god_n in_o vain_a or_o abuse_v themselves_o by_o drunkenness_n or_o wrong_v their_o neighbour_n by_o detraction_n and_o beside_o to_o eat_v flesh_n in_o lent_n may_v be_v a_o act_n of_o heresy_n which_o how_o grievous_a a_o sin_n it_o be_v have_v be_v explicate_v heretofore_o 10._o by_o occasion_n of_o mention_v the_o manichee_n you_o charge_v your_o margin_n as_o your_o fashion_n be_v with_o a_o deep_a piece_n of_o erudition_n that_o the_o name_n forsooth_o of_o their_o founder_n manes_n be_v conform_v to_o the_o greek_a word_n which_o signify_v madness_n but_o if_o we_o delight_v be_v take_v hold_v of_o such_o goodly_a occasion_n of_o vanity_n we_o can_v say_v that_o he_o be_v a_o persian_a and_o his_o name_n be_v first_o cubricus_n which_o he_o change_v into_o name_n which_o in_o the_o babylonian_a tongue_n signify_v 66._o signify_v epiph._n haeres_fw-la 66._o a_o vessel_n but_o let_v we_o leave_v these_o toy_n to_o grammar_n scholar_n 11._o it_o seem_v you_o be_v willing_a of_o set_a purpose_n to_o mistake_v the_o point_n in_o question_n which_o be_v whether_o the_o creed_n contain_v all_o fundamental_a point_n of_o faith_n or_o no_o about_o which_o charity_n mistake_v have_v instance_a in_o some_o point_n of_o faith_n not_o contain_v in_o the_o creed_n as_o the_o scripture_n and_o sacrament_n he_o add_v these_o word_n beside_o that_o there_o be_v 86.87_o be_v pag._n 86.87_o some_o great_a difference_n between_o they_o mean_v protestant_n and_o we_o about_o the_o understanding_n of_o the_o article_n of_o the_o descent_n of_o christ_n our_o lord_n into_o hell_n and_o that_o other_o of_o the_o holy_a catholic_a church_n and_o that_o also_o of_o the_o communion_n of_o saint_n which_o we_o believe_v and_o they_o deny_v to_o involve_v both_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a and_o prayer_n to_o saint_n as_o that_o we_o shall_v not_o be_v much_o better_a either_o for_o our_o know_v or_o confess_v that_o the_o creed_n contain_v all_o fundamental_a point_n of_o faith_n unless_o withal_o there_o be_v some_o certain_a way_n how_o to_o understand_v they_o aright_o and_o especial_o unless_o under_o the_o article_n which_o concern_v the_o holy_a catholic_a church_n they_o will_v understand_v it_o to_o be_v endue_v with_o so_o perfect_a infallibility_n and_o great_a authority_n as_o that_o it_o may_v teach_v we_o all_o the_o rest_n this_o solid_a discourse_n you_o mangle_v as_o you_o please_v still_o forget_v the_o promise_n you_o make_v in_o your_o preface_n to_o the_o reader_n not_o to_o omit_v any_o one_o thing_n of_o moment_n for_o you_o answer_v not_o a_o word_n to_o his_o particular_a instance_n of_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a or_o to_o saint_n nor_o to_o his_o general_a exception_n that_o we_o shall_v not_o be_v much_o better_a for_o know_v that_o the_o creed_n contain_v all_o fundamental_a point_n of_o faith_n unless_o withal_o there_o be_v some_o way_n of_o understand_v they_o aright_o if_o you_o answer_v that_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a or_o to_o saint_n be_v not_o fundamental_a point_n whether_o they_o be_v deny_v or_o affirm_v then_o you_o must_v grant_v that_o you_o forsake_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n for_o thing_n indifferent_a and_o not_o fundamental_a one_o way_n or_o other_o for_o these_o two_o point_n and_o such_o as_o these_o be_v the_o pretend_a error_n wherewith_o you_o seek_v to_o cloak_n your_o schism_n to_o the_o other_o you_o answer_v the_o church_n of_o england_n 240._o england_n pag._n 240._o question_v not_o the_o sense_n of_o those_o article_n she_o take_v they_o in_o the_o old_a catholic_a sense_n and_o the_o word_n be_v so_o plain_a they_o bear_v their_o meaning_n before_o they_o why_o do_v you_o answer_v to_o these_o two_o point_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n and_o our_o saviour_n descent_n into_o hell_n rather_o than_o to_o the_o other_o which_o charity-mistaken_a do_v mention_n and_o in_o these_o two_o of_o which_o you_o take_v notice_n why_o do_v you_o use_v so_o much_o tergiversation_n why_o do_v you_o not_o plain_o and_o honest_o acquaint_v we_o with_o the_o meaning_n of_o they_o if_o you_o say_v that_o by_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v understand_v a_o church_n always_o visible_a &_o not_o capable_a of_o error_n in_o fundamental_a point_n many_o of_o your_o chief_a brethren_n will_v contradict_v that_o which_o you_o judge_v to_o be_v plain_a and_o your_o church_n of_o england_n speak_v so_o general_o art_n 19_o of_o the_o church_n that_o as_o it_o be_v affirm_v in_o the_o preface_n man_n of_o all_o sort_n may_v take_v that_o article_n to_o be_v for_o they_o and_o as_o for_o the_o other_o article_n of_o our_o saviour_n descent_n if_o it_o beso_fw-es plain_a as_o it_o bear_v the_o sense_n before_o it_o how_o come_v caluin_n to_o understand_v it_o one_o way_n brentius_n another_o beza_n another_o and_o other_o protestant_n in_o another_o different_o from_o catholic_n with_o who_o nevertheless_o some_o other_o protestant_n agree_v who_o teach_v a_o lymbus_n patrum_fw-la as_o lascitius_fw-la oecolampadius_n zwinglius_fw-la peter_n martyr_n bullinger_n and_o 26._o and_o vide_fw-la brereley_o tract_n 3._o sect._n 7._o under_o m._n num_fw-la 26._o bilson_n and_o we_o may_v add_v d._n pottâ—er_n as_o one_o different_a from_o all_o the_o rest_n who_o say_v the_o sense_n be_v plain_a and_o yet_o he_o keep_v it_o to_o himself_o 12._o but_o the_o roman_a doctor_n 2â—â—_n doctor_n pag._n 2â—â—_n can_v agree_v among_o themselves_o about_o this_o article_n be_v there_o any_o catholic_a that_o deny_v lymbus_n patrum_fw-la or_o that_o christ_n descend_v to_o hell_n as_o it_o signify_v lymbus_n yes_o because_o say_v you_o 1._o you_o contr._n 3_o q._n 5._o art_n 1._o stapleton_n affirm_v the_o scripture_n be_v silent_a that_o christ_n descend_v into_o hell_n &_o that_o there_o be_v a_o catholic_a &_o a_o apostolic_a church_n bellarmine_n 12._o bellarmine_n 4._o dâ—_n christo._n cap._n 6._o &_o 12._o on_o the_o contrary_n be_v resolute_a that_o the_o article_n of_o the_o descent_n be_v every_o where_o in_o scripture_n and_o thomas_n grant_v 1._o grant_v 2.2_o q._n 2._o art_n 9_o ad_fw-la 1._o as_o much_o for_o the_o whole_a creed_n what_o be_v all_o this_o to_o the_o purpose_n it_o be_v one_o thing_n to_o disagree_v in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o chist_n descent_n &_o another_o whether_o that_o doctrine_n which_o they_o believe_v be_v prove_v out_o of_o scripture_n or_o deliver_v by_o the_o church_n out_o of_o unwritten_a tradition_n among_o protestant_n who_o hold_n scripture_n only_o to_o be_v the_o rule_n of_o faith_n it_o be_v all_o one_o not_o to_o be_v contain_v in_o scripture_n &_o not_o to_o be_v a_o point_n of_o faith_n but_o not_o so_o with_o catholic_n who_o beside_o scripture_n
consequence_n because_o if_o once_o we_o doubt_v of_o one_o book_n receive_v for_o canonical_a the_o whole_a canon_n be_v make_v doubtful_a and_o uncertain_a and_o therefore_o the_o infallibility_n of_o scripture_n must_v be_v universal_a and_o not_o confine_v within_o compass_n of_o point_n fundamental_a 15._o i_o answer_v for_o the_o thing_n itself_o it_o be_v very_o true_a that_o if_o i_o doubt_v of_o any_o one_o parcel_n of_o scripture_n receive_v for_o such_o i_o may_v doubt_v of_o all_o and_o thence_o by_o the_o same_o parity_n i_o infer_v that_o if_o we_o do_v doubt_n of_o the_o church_n infallibility_n in_o some_o point_n we_o can_v not_o believe_v she_o in_o any_o one_o and_o consequent_o not_o in_o propound_v canonical_a book_n or_o any_o other_o point_v fundamental_a or_o not_o fundamental_a which_o thing_n be_v most_o absurd_a and_o withal_o most_o impious_a we_o must_v take_v away_o the_o ground_n thereof_o &_o believe_v that_o she_o can_v err_v in_o any_o point_n great_a or_o small_a and_o so_o this_o reply_n do_v much_o more_o strengthen_v what_o we_o intend_v to_o prove_v yet_o i_o add_v that_o protestant_n can_v make_v use_n of_o this_o reply_n with_o any_o good_a coherence_n to_o this_o their_o distinction_n and_o some_o other_o doctrine_n which_o they_o defend_v for_o if_o d._n potter_n can_v tell_v what_o point_v in_o particular_a be_v fundamental_a as_o in_o his_o 7._o sect._n he_o pretend_v than_o he_o may_v be_v sure_a that_o whensoever_o he_o meet_v with_o such_o point_n in_o scripture_n in_o they_o it_o be_v infallible_o true_a although_o it_o may_v err_v in_o other_o &_o not_o only_o true_a but_o clear_a because_o protestant_n teach_v that_o in_o matter_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n the_o scripture_n be_v so_o clear_a that_o all_o such_o necessary_a truth_n be_v either_o manifest_o contain_v therein_o or_o may_v be_v clear_o deduce_v from_o it_o which_o doctrine_n be_v put_v together_o to_o wit_n that_o scripture_n can_v err_v in_o point_n fundamental_a that_o they_o clear_o contain_v all_o such_o point_n and_o that_o they_o can_v tell_v what_o point_v in_o particular_a be_v such_o i_o mean_v fundamental_a it_o be_v manifest_a that_o it_o be_v sussicient_a for_o salvation_n that_o scripture_n be_v infallible_a only_o in_o point_n fundamental_a for_o suppose_v these_o doctrine_n of_o they_o to_o be_v true_a they_o may_v be_v sure_a to_o find_v in_o scripture_n all_o point_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n although_o it_o be_v fallible_a in_o other_o point_n of_o less_o moment_n neither_o will_v they_o be_v able_a to_o avoid_v this_o impiety_n against_o holy_a scripture_n till_o they_o renounce_v their_o other_o doctrine_n and_o in_o particular_a till_o they_o believe_v that_o christ_n promise_n to_o his_o church_n be_v not_o limit_v to_o point_n fundamental_a 16._o beside_o from_o the_o fallibility_n of_o christ_n catholic_a church_n in_o some_o point_n it_o follow_v that_o no_o true_a protestant_n learn_v or_o unlearned_a do_v or_o can_v with_o assurance_n believe_v the_o universal_a church_n in_o any_o one_o point_n of_o doctrine_n not_o in_o point_n of_o lesser_a moment_n which_o they_o call_v not_o fundamental_a because_o they_o believe_v that_o in_o such_o point_v she_o may_v err_v not_o in_o fundamental_n because_o they_o must_v know_v what_o point_n be_v fundamental_a before_o they_o go_v to_o learn_v of_o she_o lest_o other_o wise_a they_o be_v rather_o delude_v then_o instruct_v in_o regard_n that_o her_o certain_a and_o infallible_a direction_n extend_v only_o to_o point_n fundamental_a now_o if_o before_o they_o address_v themselves_o to_o the_o church_n they_o must_v know_v what_o point_n be_v fundamental_a they_o learn_v not_o of_o she_o but_o will_v be_v be_v as_o fit_a to_o teach_v as_o to_o be_v teach_v by_o she_o how_o then_o be_v all_o christian_n so_o often_o so_o serious_o upon_o so_o dreadful_a menace_n by_o father_n scripture_n and_o our_o bless_a saviour_n himself_o counsel_v and_o command_v to_o seek_v to_o hear_v to_o obey_v the_o church_n s._n augustine_n be_v of_o a_o very_a different_a mind_n from_o protestant_n if_o say_v he_o the_o 118._o the_o epist._n 118._o church_n through_o the_o whole_a world_n practice_v any_o of_o these_o thing_n to_o dispute_v whether_o that_o aught_o to_o be_v so_o do_v be_v a_o most_o insolent_a madness_n and_o in_o another_o place_n he_o say_v that_o which_o 24._o which_o lib._n 4._o de_fw-fr bapt._n c._n 24._o the_o whole_a church_n hold_v and_o be_v not_o ordain_v by_o counsel_n but_o have_v always_o be_v keep_v be_v most_o right_o believe_v to_o be_v deliver_v by_o apostolical_a authority_n the_o same_o holy_a father_n teach_v that_o the_o custom_n of_o baptise_v child_n can_v be_v prove_v by_o scripture_n alone_o and_o yet_o that_o it_o be_v to_o be_v believe_v as_o derive_v from_o the_o apostle_n the_o custom_n of_o our_o mother_n the_o 23._o the_o lib._n 10._o de_fw-la genesi_fw-la ad_fw-la litter_n cap._n 23._o church_n say_v he_o in_o baptise_v infant_n be_v in_o no_o wise_a to_o be_v contemn_v nor_o to_o be_v account_v superfluous_a nor_o be_v it_o at_o all_o to_o be_v believe_v unless_o it_o be_v a_o apostolical_a tradition_n and_o elsewhere_o christ_n 18._o christ_n serm._n 54._o de_fw-fr verbis_fw-la apost_n c._n 18._o be_v of_o profit_n to_o child_n baptize_v be_v he_o therefore_o of_o profit_n to_o person_n not_o believe_v but_o god_n forbid_v that_o i_o shall_v say_v infant_n do_v not_o believe_v i_o have_v already_o say_v he_o believe_v in_o another_o who_o sin_v in_o another_o it_o be_v say_v he_o believe_v &_o it_o be_v of_o force_n and_o he_o be_v reckon_v among_o the_o faithful_a that_o be_v baptize_v this_o the_o authority_n of_o our_o mother_n the_o church_n have_v against_o this_o strength_n against_o this_o invincible_a wall_n whosoever_o rush_v shall_v be_v crush_v in_o piece_n to_o this_o argument_n the_o protestant_n in_o the_o conference_n at_o ratisbon_n give_v this_o round_a answer_n nos_fw-la ab_fw-la augustino_n 367._o augustino_n see_v protocoll_n monac_n edit_fw-la 2._o pag._n 367._o hac_fw-la in_o parte_fw-la liberè_fw-la dissentimus_fw-la in_o this_o we_o plain_o disagree_v from_o augustine_n now_o if_o this_o doctrine_n of_o baptise_v infant_n be_v not_o fundamental_a in_o d._n potter_n sense_n then_o according_a to_o s._n augustine_n the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n extend_v to_o point_n not_o fundamental_a but_o if_o on_o the_o other_o side_n it_o be_v a_o fundamental_a point_n then_o according_a to_o the_o same_o holy_a doctor_n we_o must_v rely_v on_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n for_o some_o fundamental_a point_n not_o contain_v in_o scripture_n but_o deliver_v by_o tradition_n the_o like_a argument_n i_o frame_v out_o of_o the_o same_o father_n about_o the_o not_o rebaptise_v of_o those_o who_o be_v baptize_v by_o heretic_n whereof_o he_o excellent_o to_o our_o present_a purpose_n speak_v in_o this_o manner_n we_o follow_v 33._o follow_v lib._n 1._o cont_n crescon_n cap._n 32._o &_o 33._o indeed_o in_o this_o matter_n even_o the_o most_o certain_a authority_n of_o canonical_a scripture_n but_o how_o consider_v his_o word_n although_o very_o there_o be_v bring_v no_o example_n for_o this_o point_n out_o of_o the_o canonical_a scripture_n yet_o even_o in_o this_o point_n the_o truth_n of_o the_o same_o scripture_n be_v hold_v by_o we_o while_o we_o do_v that_o which_o the_o authority_n of_o scripture_n do_v recommend_v that_o so_o because_o the_o holy_a scripture_n can_v deceive_v we_o whosoever_o be_v afraid_a to_o be_v deceive_v by_o the_o obscurity_n of_o this_o question_n must_v have_v recourse_n to_o the_o same_o church_n concern_v it_o which_o without_o any_o ambiguity_n the_o holy_a scripture_n do_v demonstrate_v to_o us._n among_o many_o other_o point_n in_o the_o aforesaid_a word_n we_o be_v to_o observe_v that_o according_a to_o this_o holy_a father_n when_o we_o prove_v some_o point_v not_o 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happiness_n in_o body_n &_o soul_n when_o they_o shall_v once_o have_v attain_v it_o after_o the_o general_a resurrection_n which_o be_v a_o request_n savour_v of_o infidelity_n as_o if_o the_o saint_n can_v be_v deprive_v of_o beatitude_n once_o enjoy_v now_o as_o for_o azor_n he_o prove_v in_o the_o place_n cite_v by_o you_o that_o the_o grecian_n do_v not_o altogether_o take_v away_o some_o kind_n of_o purge_v fire_n but_o only_o seem_v to_o deny_v a_o certain_a determinate_a punishment_n of_o corporal_a fire_n because_o say_v he_o they_o do_v true_o offer_v sacrifice_n and_o prayer_n to_o god_n for_o the_o dead_a sure_o not_o for_o the_o bless_a nor_o for_o those_o which_o be_v damn_v in_o hell_n which_o be_v plain_o absurd_a and_o impious_a it_o must_v therefore_o be_v for_o they_o who_o be_v decease_v with_o faith_n and_o piety_n but_o have_v not_o full_o satisfy_v for_o the_o temporal_a punishment_n due_a to_o their_o sin_n be_v this_o to_o condemn_v the_o doctrine_n of_o 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we_o grant_v that_o it_o be_v not_o always_o easy_a to_o determine_v in_o particular_a occasion_n whether_o this_o or_o that_o doctrine_n be_v such_o because_o it_o may_v be_v doubtful_a whether_o it_o be_v against_o any_o scripture_n or_o divine_a tradition_n or_o definition_n of_o the_o church_n and_o much_o more_o whether_o the_o person_n be_v a_o heretic_n which_o require_v certain_a condition_n as_o capacity_n pertinacy_n sufficient_a proposition_n etc._n etc._n which_o be_v not_o always_o so_o easy_o explicate_v and_o discern_v and_o for_o these_o respect_n s._n augustine_n in_o the_o place_n cite_v 102._o cite_v pag._n 102._o by_o you_o have_v good_a reason_n to_o say_v that_o it_o be_v hard_o to_o know_v what_o make_v a_o heretic_n but_o it_o be_v strange_a that_o you_o shall_v hold_v it_o to_o be_v so_o hard_a a_o matter_n to_o give_v a_o general_a definition_n of_o heresy_n or_o heretic_n since_o in_o this_o very_a section_n you_o dispatch_v it_o quick_o say_v he_o be_v 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s._n cyprian_n mild_a proceed_n which_o you_o so_o much_o commend_v out_o of_o your_o ill_a will_n to_o s._n stephen_n because_o he_o be_v pope_n s._n augustine_n say_v the_o thing_n which_o 25._o which_o de_fw-fr bapt._n cont_n donat._n lib._n 5._o cap._n 25._o cyprian_n in_o anger_n have_v spread_v against_o stephen_n i_o will_v not_o suffer_v to_o pass_v under_o my_o pen._n wherefore_o you_o can_v not_o have_v pick_v out_o a_o example_n more_o in_o favour_n of_o pope_n than_o this_o and_o you_o must_v give_v we_o leave_v not_o to_o credit_v what_o you_o say_v that_o both_o stephen_n and_o cyprian_n err_v in_o some_o sense_n for_o stephen_n only_o affirm_v that_o baptism_n be_v not_o invalide_v precise_o because_o it_o be_v give_v by_o heretic_n as_o s._n cyprian_n affirm_v it_o to_o be_v but_o yet_o if_o the_o heretic_n err_v either_o in_o the_o matter_n or_o form_n of_o baptism_n stephen_n never_o affirm_v such_o baptism_n to_o be_v valid_a which_o have_v be_v more_o than_o he_o 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credit_n of_o turk_n or_o infidel_n and_o therefore_o not_o the_o assertion_n of_o bellarmine_n but_o the_o contrary_a to_o it_o be_v a_o plain_a principle_n of_o atheism_n do_v not_o you_o prove_v the_o necessity_n of_o a_o perpetual_a visible_a true_a church_n because_o other_o wise_a man_n shall_v want_v that_o ordinary_a mean_n which_o god_n have_v appoint_v for_o our_o instruction_n direction_n &_o salvation_n now_o if_o we_o may_v have_v scripture_n and_o true_a faith_n from_o a_o false_a church_n your_o more_o zealous_a brethren_n who_o deny_v a_o perpetual_a visible_a true_a church_n may_v easy_o answer_v all_o your_o argument_n and_o tell_v you_o that_o a_o true_a church_n be_v not_o necessery_n for_o faith_n and_o salvation_n and_o beside_o be_v it_o not_o in_o effect_n all_o one_o to_o say_v for_o as_o much_o as_o concern_v our_o instruction_n christ_n have_v no_o visible_a church_n &_o to_o say_v that_o we_o can_v know_v which_o be_v the_o true_a visible_a church_n of_o 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be_v understand_v when_o they_o teach_v that_o we_o believe_v diverse_a thing_n not_o comprehend_v in_o scripture_n 13._o but_o you_o ask_v with_o what_o ingenuity_n 146._o ingenuity_n pag._n 146._o or_o conscience_n do_v they_o pretend_v scripture_n in_o each_o controversy_n against_o we_o since_o by_o their_o own_o confession_n many_o of_o their_o assertion_n be_v mere_a unwritten_a tradition_n lean_v only_o on_o the_o authority_n of_o their_o church_n i_o answer_v that_o some_o point_n of_o faith_n be_v express_o contain_v in_o scripture_n yet_o not_o so_o enforce_o as_o they_o may_v not_o be_v colourable_o elude_v if_o we_o take_v away_o the_o declaration_n of_o the_o church_n some_o other_o be_v not_o contain_v in_o scripture_n any_o other_o way_n then_o in_o the_o general_a principle_n of_o the_o church_n authority_n and_o divine_a tradition_n as_o for_o example_n that_o such_o book_n in_o particular_a be_v canonical_a writing_n some_o other_o arâ—_n comprehend_v in_o scripture_n 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a_o proposition_n be_v not_o the_o fide_fw-la unless_o it_o be_v conclude_v in_o this_o syllogism_n whatsoever_o god_n 145._o god_n pag._n 145._o reveal_v in_o the_o scripture_n be_v true_a but_o this_o or_o that_o god_n have_v reveal_v in_o scripture_n ergo_fw-la it_o be_v true_a if_o matter_n of_o faith_n must_v be_v reveal_v in_o scripture_n as_o this_o reason_n suppose_v than_o the_o proposal_n of_o the_o church_n can_v make_v any_o unwritten_a verity_n to_o become_v matter_n of_o faith_n yet_o to_o salve_v the_o sovereign_a power_n of_o his_o church_n he_o make_v all_o the_o strength_n and_o truth_n in_o this_o syllogism_n to_o depend_v on_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n and_o by_o consequence_n the_o truth_n of_o the_o conclusion_n which_o ever_o resemble_v the_o weak_a premisse_a so_o as_o if_o this_o be_v true_a there_o be_v no_o truth_n in_o the_o scripture_n or_o in_o our_o religion_n without_o the_o attestation_n of_o the_o church_n but_o now_o how_o many_o 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your_o grand_a reformer_n luther_n lib._n de_fw-la concilijs_fw-la part_n prima_fw-la say_v that_o he_o understand_v not_o the_o holy_a ghost_n in_o that_o council_n for_o in_o one_o canon_n it_o say_v that_o those_o who_o have_v geld_v themselves_o be_v not_o fit_a to_o be_v make_v priest_n in_o another_o it_o forbid_v they_o to_o have_v wife_n have_v say_v he_o the_o holy_a ghost_n nothing_o to_o do_v in_o counsel_n but_o to_o bind_v and_o load_v his_o minister_n which_o impossblie_o dangerous_a and_o unnecessary_a law_n i_o forbear_v to_o show_v that_o this_o very_a article_n i_o confess_v one_o baptism_n for_o the_o remission_n of_o sin_n will_v be_v understand_v by_o protestant_n in_o a_o far_o different_a sense_n from_o catholic_n yea_o protestant_n among_o themselves_n do_v not_o agree_v how_o baptism_n forgive_v sin_n nor_o what_o grace_n it_o confer_v only_o concern_v the_o unity_n of_o baptism_n against_o rebaptisation_n of_o such_o as_o be_v once_o baptize_v which_o i_o note_v as_o a_o point_n not_o contain_v in_o the_o apostle_n creed_n i_o can_v omit_v a_o excellent_a place_n of_o s._n augustine_n where_o speak_v of_o the_o donatist_n he_o have_v these_o word_n they_o be_v so_o bold_a as_o 69._o as_o lib._n de_fw-fr haeres_fw-la in_o 69._o to_o rebaptize_v catholic_n wherein_o they_o show_v themselves_o to_o be_v the_o great_a heretic_n since_o it_o have_v please_v the_o universal_a catholic_a church_n not_o to_o make_v baptism_n void_a even_o in_o the_o very_a heretic_n themselves_o in_o which_o few_o word_n this_o holy_a father_n deliver_v against_o the_o donatist_n these_o point_n which_o do_v also_o make_v against_o protestant_n that_o to_o make_v a_o heresy_n or_o a_o heretic_n know_v for_o such_o it_o be_v sufficient_a to_o oppose_v the_o definition_n of_o god_n church_n that_o a_o proposition_n may_v be_v heretical_a though_o it_o be_v not_o repugnant_a to_o any_o text_n of_o scripture_n for_o s._n augustine_n teach_v that_o the_o doctrine_n 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and_o bond_n of_o peace_n and_o last_o in_o the_o catholic_a church_n you_o be_v not_o with_o us._n chap._n v._o that_o luther_n caluin_n their_o associate_n and_o all_o who_o begin_v or_o continue_v the_o separation_n from_o the_o external_a communion_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v guilty_a of_o the_o proper_a and_o formal_a sin_n of_o schism_n the_o searcher_n of_o all_o heart_n be_v witness_n with_o how_o unwilling_a mind_n we_o catholic_n be_v draw_v to_o fasten_v the_o denomination_n of_o schismatic_n or_o heretic_n on_o they_o for_z whoses_z soul_n if_o they_o employ_v their_o best_a blood_n they_o will_v judge_v that_o it_o can_v not_o be_v better_o spend_v if_o we_o rejoice_v that_o they_o be_v contristate_v at_o such_o title_n our_o joy_n rise_v not_o from_o their_o trouble_n or_o grief_n but_o as_o that_o of_o the_o apostle_n do_v from_o the_o fountain_n of_o charity_n because_o they_o be_v contristate_v to_o repentance_n that_o so_o after_o unpartial_a examination_n they_o find_v themselves_o to_o be_v what_o we_o say_v may_v by_o god_n holy_a grace_n begin_v to_o dislike_v what_o themselves_o be_v for_o our_o part_n we_o must_v remember_v that_o our_o obligation_n be_v to_o keep_v within_o the_o mean_a betwixt_o uncharitable_a bitterness_n &_o pernicious_a flatery_a not_o yield_v to_o worldly_a respect_n nor_o offend_a christian_a modesty_n but_o utter_v the_o substance_n of_o truth_n in_o so_o caritable_a manner_n that_o not_o so_o much_o we_o as_o truth_n and_o charity_n may_v seem_v to_o speak_v according_a to_o the_o wholesome_a advice_n of_o s._n gregory_n nazianzen_n in_o these_o divine_a word_n we_o do_v not_o affect_v peace_n with_o 32._o with_o orat._n 32._o prejudice_n of_o the_o true_a doctrine_n that_o so_o we_o may_v get_v a_o name_n of_o be_v gentle_a and_o mild_a &_o yet_o we_o seek_v to_o conserve_v peace_n fight_v in_o a_o lawful_a manner_n and_o contain_v ourselves_o within_o our_o compass_n and_o the_o rule_n of_o spirit_n and_o of_o these_o thing_n my_o judgement_n be_v and_o for_o my_o part_n i_o prescribe_v the_o same_o law_n to_o all_o that_o deal_v with_o soul_n and_o treat_v of_o true_a doctrine_n that_o neither_o they_o exasperate_v man_n mind_n by_o harshness_n nor_o make_v they_o haughty_a or_o insolent_a by_o submission_n but_o that_o in_o the_o cause_n of_o faith_n they_o behave_v themselves_o prudent_o and_o advise_o and_o do_v not_o in_o either_o of_o these_o thing_n exceed_v the_o mean_a with_o who_o agree_v s._n leo_n say_v it_o be_v hove_v we_o in_o such_o cause_n to_o be_v 8._o be_v epist_n 8._o most_o careful_a that_o without_o noise_n of_o contention_n both_o charity_n be_v conserve_v and_o truth_n maintain_v 2._o for_o better_a method_n we_o will_v handle_v these_o point_n in_o order_n first_o we_o will_v set_v down_o the_o nature_n and_o essence_n or_o as_o i_o may_v call_v it_o the_o quality_n of_o schism_n in_o the_o second_o place_n the_o greatness_n &_o grievousnes_n or_o so_o to_o term_v it_o the_o quantity_n thereof_o for_o the_o nature_n or_o quality_n will_v tell_v we_o who_o may_v without_o injury_n be_v judge_v schismatic_n and_o by_o the_o greatness_n or_o quantity_n such_o as_o find_v themselves_o guilty_a thereof_o will_v remain_v acquaint_v with_o the_o true_a state_n of_o their_o soul_n and_o whether_o they_o may_v conceive_v any_o hope_n of_o salvation_n or_o no._n and_o because_o schism_n will_v be_v find_v to_o be_v a_o division_n from_o the_o church_n which_o can_v not_o happen_v unless_o there_o be_v always_o a_o visible_a church_n we_o will_v three_o prove_v or_o rather_o take_v it_o as_o a_o point_n to_o be_v grant_v by_o all_o christian_n that_o in_o all_o age_n there_o have_v be_v such_o a_o visible_a congregation_n of_o faithful_a people_n four_o we_o will_v demonstrate_v that_o luther_n caluin_n and_o the_o rest_n do_v separate_v themselves_o from_o the_o communion_n of_o that_o always_o visible_a church_n of_o christ_n and_o therefore_o be_v guilty_a of_o schism_n and_o five_o we_o will_v make_v it_o evident_a that_o the_o visible_a true_a church_n of_o christ_n out_o of_o which_o luther_n and_o his_o follower_n depart_v be_v no_o other_o but_o the_o roman_a church_n &_o consequent_o that_o both_o they_o and_o all_o other_o who_o persist_v in_o the_o same_o division_n be_v schismatic_n by_o reason_n of_o their_o separation_n from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n 3._o for_o the_o first_o point_n touch_v the_o nature_n point_n 1._o point_n or_o quality_n of_o schism_n as_o the_o natural_a perfection_n of_o man_n consist_v in_o his_o be_v the_o image_n of_o god_n his_o creator_n by_o the_o power_n of_o his_o soul_n so_o his_o supernatural_a perfection_n be_v place_v in_o similitude_n with_o god_n as_o his_o last_o end_n and_o felicity_n schism_n the_o nature_n of_o schism_n and_o by_o have_v the_o say_v spiritual_a faculty_n his_o understanding_n and_o will_n link_v to_o he_o his_o understanding_n be_v unite_v to_o god_n by_o faith_n his_o will_n by_o charity_n the_o former_a rely_v upon_o his_o infallible_a truth_n the_o latter_a carry_v we_o to_o his_o infinite_a goodness_n faith_n have_v a_o deadly_a opposite_a heresy_n contrary_n to_o the_o union_n or_o unity_n of_o charity_n be_v separation_n and_o division_n charity_n be_v twofold_a as_o it_o respect_v god_n his_o opposite_a vice_n be_v hatred_n against_o god_n as_o it_o unit_v we_o to_o our_o neighbour_n his_o contrary_n be_v separation_n or_o division_n of_o affection_n and_o will_v from_o our_o neighbour_n our_o neighbour_n may_v be_v consider_v either_o as_o one_o private_a person_n have_v a_o single_a relation_n to_o another_o or_o as_o all_o concur_v to_o make_v one_o company_n or_o congregation_n which_o we_o call_v the_o church_n and_o this_o be_v the_o most_o principal_a reference_n and_o union_n of_o one_o man_n with_o another_o because_o the_o chief_a unity_n be_v that_o
mean_n of_o holy_a tradition_n we_o can_v conjoin_v the_o present_a church_n &_o doctrine_n with_o the_o church_n and_o doctrine_n of_o the_o apostle_n but_o must_v invent_v some_o new_a mean_n and_o argument_n sufficient_a of_o themselves_o to_o find_v out_o and_o prove_v a_o true_a church_n and_o faith_n independent_o of_o the_o preach_n and_o write_v of_o the_o apostle_n neither_o of_o which_o can_v be_v know_v but_o by_o tradition_n as_o be_v true_o observe_v by_o tertullian_n say_v i_o will_v prescribe_v that_o 5.21_o that_o praesc_fw-la 5.21_o there_o be_v no_o mean_n to_o prove_v what_o the_o apostle_n preach_v but_o by_o the_o same_o church_n which_o they_o found_v 6._o thus_o than_o we_o be_v to_o proceed_v by_o evidence_n of_o manifest_a and_o incorrupt_a tradition_n i_o know_v that_o there_o have_v always_o be_v a_o never_o interrupt_v succession_n of_o man_n from_o the_o apostle_n time_n believe_v profess_v and_o practise_v such_o and_o such_o doctrine_n by_o evident_a argument_n of_o credibility_n as_o miracle_n sanctity_n unity_n etc._n etc._n and_o by_o all_o those_o way_n whereby_o the_o apostle_n and_o our_o blesseed_n saviour_n himself_o confirm_v their_o doctrine_n we_o be_v assure_v that_o what_o the_o say_v never_o interrupt_v church_n propose_v do_v deserve_v to_o be_v accept_v &_o aknowledge_v as_o a_o divine_a truth_n by_o evidence_n of_o sense_n we_o see_v that_o the_o same_o church_n propose_v such_o and_o such_o doctrine_n as_o divine_a truth_n that_o be_v as_o reveal_v and_o testify_v by_o almighty_a god_n by_o this_o divine_a testimony_n we_o be_v infallible_o assure_v of_o what_o we_o believe_v and_o so_o the_o last_o period_n ground_n motive_n and_o formal_a object_n of_o our_o faith_n be_v the_o infallible_a testimony_n of_o that_o supreme_a verity_n which_o neither_o can_v deceyve_v nor_o be_v deceive_v 7._o by_o this_o orderly_a deduction_n our_o faith_n come_v to_o be_v endue_v with_o these_o quality_n which_o we_o say_v be_v requisite_a thereto_o namely_o certain_o obscurity_n and_o pruderce_a certaimy_n proceed_v from_o the_o infallible_a testimony_n of_o god_n propound_v &_o convey_v to_o our_o understanding_n by_o such_o a_o mean_a as_o be_v infallible_a in_o itself_o and_o to_o we_o be_v evident_o know_v that_o it_o propose_v this_o point_n or_o that_o and_o which_o can_v manifest_o declare_v in_o what_o sense_n it_o propose_v they_o which_o mean_v we_o have_v prove_v to_o be_v only_o the_o visible_a church_n of_o christ_n obscurity_n from_o the_o manner_n in_o which_o god_n speak_v to_o mankind_n which_o ordinary_o be_v such_o that_o it_o do_v not_o manifest_o show_v the_o person_n who_o speak_v nor_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o thing_n speak_v prudence_n be_v not_o want_v because_o our_o faith_n be_v accompany_v with_o so_o many_o argument_n of_o credibility_n that_o every_o well_o dispose_v understanding_n may_v &_o aught_o to_o judge_v that_o the_o doctrine_n so_o confirm_v deserve_v to_o be_v believe_v as_o proceed_v from_o authority_n 8._o and_o thus_o from_o what_o have_v be_v say_v we_o may_v easy_o gather_v the_o particular_a nature_n or_o definition_n of_o faith_n for_o it_o be_v a_o voluntary_a or_o free_a infallible_a obscure_a assent_n to_o some_o truth_n because_o it_o be_v testify_v by_o god_n &_o be_v sufficient_o propound_v to_o we_o for_o such_o which_o proposal_n be_v ordinary_o make_v by_o the_o visible_a church_n of_o christ_n i_o say_v sufficient_o propose_v by_o the_o church_n not_o that_o i_o purpose_n to_o dispute_v whether_o the_o proposal_n of_o the_o church_n enter_v into_o the_o formal_a object_n or_o motive_n of_o faith_n or_o whether_o a_o error_n be_v any_o heresy_n formal_o and_o precise_o because_o it_o be_v against_o the_o proposition_n of_o the_o church_n as_o if_o such_o proposal_n be_v the_o formal_a object_n of_o faith_n which_o d._n potter_n to_o no_o purpose_n at_o all_o labour_v so_o very_o hard_o to_o disprove_v but_o i_o only_o affirm_v that_o when_o the_o church_n propound_v any_o truth_n as_o reveal_v by_o god_n we_o be_v assure_v that_o it_o be_v such_o indeed_o &_o so_o it_o instant_o grow_v to_o be_v a_o fit_a object_n for_o christian_a faith_n which_o oncline_v and_o enable_v we_o to_o believe_v whatsoever_o be_v due_o present_v as_o a_o thing_n reveal_v by_o almighty_a god_n and_o in_o the_o same_o manner_n we_o be_v sure_a that_o whosoever_o oppose_v any_o doctrine_n propose_v by_o the_o church_n do_v thereby_o contradict_v a_o truth_n which_o be_v testify_v by_o god_n as_o when_o any_o lawful_a superior_a notify_v his_o will_n by_o the_o mean_n and_o as_o it_o be_v proposal_n of_o some_o faithful_a messenger_n the_o subject_n of_o such_o a_o superior_a in_o perform_v or_o neglect_v what_o be_v deliver_v by_o the_o messenger_n be_v say_v to_o obey_v or_o disobey_v his_o own_o lawful_a superior_a and_o therefore_o because_o the_o testimony_n of_o god_n be_v notify_v by_o the_o church_n we_o may_v and_o we_o do_v most_o true_o say_v that_o not_o to_o believe_v what_o the_o church_n propose_v be_v to_o deny_v god_n holy_a word_n or_o testimony_n signify_v to_o we_o by_o the_o church_n according_a to_o that_o say_n of_o s._n irenaeus_n we_o need_v not_o go_v 4._o go_v lib._n 3._o cont_n heres_fw-la cap._n 4._o to_o any_o other_o to_o seek_v the_o truth_n which_o we_o may_v easy_o receive_v from_o the_o church_n 9_o from_o this_o definition_n of_o faith_n we_o may_v also_o know_v what_o heresy_n be_v by_o take_v the_o contrary_a term_n as_o heresy_n be_v contrary_a to_o faith_n and_o say_v heresy_n be_v a_o voluntary_a error_n against_o that_o which_o god_n have_v reucale_v and_o the_o church_n have_v propose_v for_o such_o neither_o do_v it_o import_n whether_o the_o error_n concern_v point_n in_o themselves_o great_a or_o small_a fundamental_a or_o not_o fundamental_a for_o more_o be_v require_v to_o a_o act_n of_o virtue_n then_o of_o vice_n if_o any_o truth_n though_o never_o so_o small_a may_v be_v believe_v by_o faith_n assoon_o as_o we_o know_v it_o to_o be_v testify_v by_o divine_a rovelation_n much_o more_o will_v it_o be_v a_o formal_a heresy_n to_o deny_v any_o least_o point_n sufficient_o propound_v as_o a_o thing_n witness_v by_o god_n 10._o this_o divine_a faith_n be_v divide_v into_o actual_a and_o habitual_a actual_a faith_n or_o faith_n actuate_v be_v when_o we_o be_v in_o act_n of_o consideration_n and_o belief_n of_o some_o mystery_n of_o faith_n for_o example_n that_o our_o saviour_n christ_n be_v true_a god_n and_o man_n etc._n etc._n habitual_a faith_n be_v that_o from_o which_o we_o be_v denominate_v faithful_a or_o believer_n as_o by_o actual_a faith_n they_o be_v style_v believe_v this_o habit_n of_o faith_n be_v a_o quality_n enable_v we_o most_o firm_o to_o believe_v object_n above_o human_a discourse_n and_o it_o remain_v permanent_o in_o our_o soul_n even_o when_o we_o be_v sleep_v or_o not_o think_v of_o any_o mystery_n of_o faith_n this_o be_v the_o first_o among_o the_o three_o theological_a virtue_n for_o charity_n unite_v we_o to_o god_n as_o he_o be_v infinite_o good_a in_o himself_o hope_n tie_v we_o to_o he_o as_o he_o be_v unspeakable_o good_a to_o us._n fayth_n join_v we_o to_o he_o as_o he_o be_v the_o supreme_a immovable_a verity_n charity_n rely_v on_o his_o goodness_n hope_v on_o his_o power_n faith_n on_o his_o divine_a wisdom_n from_o hence_o it_o follow_v that_o faith_n be_v one_o of_o the_o virtue_n which_o divine_v term_n infuse_v that_o be_v which_o can_v be_v acquire_v by_o human_a wit_n or_o industry_n but_o be_v in_o their_o nature_n &_o essence_n supernatural_a it_o have_v this_o property_n that_o it_o be_v not_o destroy_v by_o little_a and_o little_a contrary_o to_o the_o habit_n call_v acquisiti_fw-la that_o be_v get_v by_o human_a endeavour_n which_o as_o they_o be_v successive_o produce_v so_o also_o be_v they_o lose_v successive_o or_o by_o little_a and_o little_a but_o it_o must_v either_o be_v conserve_v entire_a or_o whole_o destroy_v and_o since_o it_o can_v stand_v entire_a with_o any_o one_o act_n which_o be_v direct_o contrary_a it_o must_v be_v total_o overthrow_v and_o as_o it_o be_v demolish_v and_o raze_v by_o every_o such_o act_n wherefore_o as_o charity_n or_o the_o love_n of_o god_n be_v expel_v from_o our_o soul_n by_o any_o one_o act_n of_o hatred_n or_o any_o other_o mortal_a sin_n against_o his_o divine_a majesty_n and_o as_o hope_n be_v destroy_v by_o any_o one_o act_n of_o voluntary_a desperation_n so_o faith_n must_v perish_v by_o any_o one_o act_n of_o heresy_n because_o every_o such_o act_n be_v direct_o and_o formal_o opposite_a thereunto_o i_o know_v that_o some_o sin_n which_o as_o divines_n speak_v be_v ex_fw-la genere_fw-la svo_fw-la in_o in_o their_o kind_n grievous_a and_o mortal_a may_v be_v much_o lessen_v and_o fall_v to_o be_v
world_n among_o all_o man_n of_o the_o world_n elect_v he_o he_o speak_v of_o s._n peter_n to_o who_o he_o grant_v the_o chair_n of_o doctor_n to_o be_v principal_o possess_v by_o a_o perpetual_a right_n of_o privilege_n that_o whosoever_o be_v desirous_a to_o know_v any_o divine_a and_o profound_a thing_n may_v have_v recourse_n to_o the_o oracle_n and_o doctrine_n of_o this_o instruction_n john_n patriarch_n of_o constantinople_n more_o than_o eleven_o hundred_o year_n ago_o in_o a_o epistle_n to_o pope_n hormisda_n write_v thus_o because_o pp_n because_o epist_n ad_fw-la hormis_n pp_n the_o beginning_n of_o salvation_n be_v to_o conserve_v the_o rule_n of_o right_a faith_n &_o in_o no_o wise_a to_o swerve_v from_o the_o tradition_n of_o our_o forefathers_n because_o the_o word_n of_o our_o lord_n can_v fail_v say_v thou_o be_v peter_n and_o upon_o this_o rock_n i_o will_v build_v my_o church_n the_o proof_n of_o deed_n have_v make_v good_a those_o word_n because_o in_o the_o sea_n apostolical_a the_o catholic_a religion_n be_v always_o conserve_v inviolable_a and_o again_o we_o promise_v hereafter_o not_o to_o recite_v in_o the_o sacred_a mystery_n the_o name_n of_o they_o who_o be_v exclude_v from_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n that_o be_v to_o say_v who_o consent_v not_o full_o with_o the_o sea_n apostolic_a many_o other_o authority_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n may_v be_v produce_v to_o this_o purpose_n but_o these_o may_v serve_v to_o show_v that_o both_o the_o latin_n &_o greek_a father_n hold_v for_o a_o note_n of_o be_v a_o catholic_a or_o a_o heretic_n to_o have_v be_v unite_v or_o divide_v from_o the_o sea_n of_o rome_n and_o i_o have_v purposely_o allege_v only_o such_o authority_n of_o father_n as_o speak_v of_o the_o privilege_n of_o the_o sea_n of_o rome_n as_o of_o thing_n permament_n and_o depend_v on_o our_o saviour_n promise_n to_o s._n peter_n from_o which_o a_o general_a rule_n and_o ground_n ought_v to_o be_v take_v for_o all_o age_n because_o heaven_n and_o earth_n shall_v 24.35_o shall_v matt._n 24.35_o pass_v but_o the_o word_n of_o our_o lord_n shall_v remain_v for_o ever_o so_o that_o i_o here_o conclude_v that_o see_v it_o be_v manifest_a that_o luther_n and_o his_o follower_n divide_v themselves_o from_o the_o sea_n of_o rome_n they_o bear_v the_o inseparable_a mark_n of_o heresy_n 20._o and_o though_o my_o meaning_n be_v not_o to_o treat_v the_o point_n of_o ordination_n or_o succession_n in_o the_o protestant_n church_n because_o the_o father_n allege_a in_o the_o last_o reason_n assign_v succession_n as_o one_o mark_n of_o the_o true_a church_n i_o must_v not_o omit_v to_o say_v that_o according_a to_o the_o ground_n of_o protestant_n themselves_o they_o can_v neither_o pretend_v personal_a succession_n of_o bishop_n nor_o succession_n of_o doctrine_n for_o whereas_o succession_n of_o bishop_n signify_v a_o never-interrupted_n line_n of_o person_n endue_v with_o a_o indelible_a quality_n which_o divine_v call_v a_o character_n which_o can_v be_v take_v away_o by_o deposition_n degradation_n or_o other_o mean_n whatsoever_o and_o endue_v also_o with_o jurisdiction_n and_o authority_n to_o teach_v to_o preach_v to_o govern_v the_o church_n by_o law_n precept_n censure_n etc._n etc._n protestant_n can_v pretend_v succession_n in_o either_o of_o these_o for_o beside_o that_o there_o be_v never_o protestant_a bishop_n before_o luther_n and_o that_o there_o can_v be_v no_o continuance_n of_o succession_n where_o there_o be_v no_o beginning_n to_o succeed_v they_o common_o acknowledge_v no_o character_n &_o consequent_o must_v affirm_v that_o when_o their_o pretend_a bishop_n or_o priest_n be_v deprive_v of_o jurisdiction_n or_o degrade_v they_o remain_v mere_a lie_v person_n as_o before_o their_o ordination_n fulfil_v what_o tertâ—â—â—lian_a object_n as_o a_o mark_n of_o heresy_n to_o day_n a_o priest_n to_o morrow_n 41._o morrow_n praeser_n çap._n 41._o a_o layman_n for_o if_o there_o be_v no_o immovable_a character_n their_o power_n of_o order_n must_v consist_v only_o in_o jurisdiction_n and_o authority_n or_o in_o a_o kind_n of_o moral_a deputation_n to_o some_o function_n which_o therefore_o may_v be_v take_v away_o by_o the_o same_o power_n by_o which_o it_o be_v give_v neither_o can_v they_o pretend_v succcession_n in_o authority_n or_o jurisdiction_n for_o all_o the_o authority_n or_o jurisdiction_n which_o they_o have_v be_v confer_v by_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n that_o be_v by_o the_o pope_n because_o the_o whole_a church_n collective_o do_v not_o meet_v to_o ordain_v bishop_n or_o priest_n or_o to_o give_v they_o authority_n but_o according_a to_o their_o own_o doctrine_n they_o believe_v that_o the_o pope_n neither_o have_v or_o aught_o to_o have_v any_o jurisdiction_n power_n superiority_n pre-eminence_n or_o authority_n ecclesiastical_a or_o spiritual_a within_o this_o realm_n which_o they_o swear_v even_o when_o they_o be_v ordain_v bishop_n priest_n and_o deacon_n how_o then_o can_v the_o pope_n give_v jurisdiction_n where_o they_o swear_v he_o neither_o have_v nor_o aught_v to_o have_v any_o or_o if_o yet_o he_o have_v how_o can_v they_o without_o schism_n withdraw_v themselves_o from_o his_o obedience_n beside_o the_o roman_a church_n never_o give_v they_o authority_n to_o oppose_v she_o by_o who_o it_o be_v give_v but_o grant_v their_o first_o bishop_n have_v such_o authority_n from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n after_o the_o decease_n of_o those_o man_n who_o give_v authority_n to_o their_o pretend_a successor_n the_o primate_n of_o england_n but_o from_o who_o have_v he_o such_o authority_n and_o after_o his_o decease_n who_o shall_v confer_v authority_n upon_o his_o successor_n the_o temporal_a magistrate_n king_n henry_n neither_o a_o catholic_n nor_o a_o protestant_n king_n edward_n a_o child_n queen_n elizabeth_n a_o woman_n a_o infant_n of_o one_o hour_n age_n be_v true_a king_n in_o case_n of_o his_o predecessor_n decease_n but_o shall_v your_o church_n lie_v fallow_a till_o that_o infant-king_n and_o green_a head_n of_o the_o church_n come_v to_o year_n of_o discretion_n do_v your_o bishop_n your_o hierarchy_n your_o succession_n your_o sacrament_n your_o be_v or_o not_o be_v heretic_n for_o want_n of_o succession_n depend_v on_o this_o new-found_a supremacy-doctrine_n bring_v in_o by_o such_o a_o man_n mere_o upon_o base_a occasion_n and_o for_o shameful_a end_n impugn_a by_o caluin_n and_o his_o follower_n deride_v by_o the_o christian_a world_n &_o even_o by_o chief_a protestant_n as_o d._n andrew_n wotton_n etc._n etc._n not_o hold_v for_o any_o necessary_a point_n of_o faith_n and_o from_o who_o i_o pray_v you_o have_v bishop_n their_o authority_n when_o there_o be_v no_o christian_a king_n must_v the_o greek_a patriarch_n receive_v spiritual_a jurisdiction_n from_o the_o greek_a turk_n do_v the_o pope_n by_o the_o baptism_n of_o prince_n lose_v the_o spiritual_a power_n he_o former_o have_v of_o confer_v spiritual_a jurisdiction_n upon_o bishop_n have_v the_o temporal_a magistrate_n authority_n to_o preach_v to_o assoil_v from_o sin_n to_o inflict_v excommunication_n and_o other_o censure_n why_o have_v he_o not_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v as_o well_o as_o to_o dispense_v in_o irregularity_n as_o our_o late_a sovereign_a lord_n king_n james_n either_o dispense_v with_o the_o late_a archbishop_n of_o canterbury_n or_o else_o give_v commission_n to_o some_o bishop_n to_o do_v â—t_a and_o since_o they_o be_v subject_a to_o their_o primate_n and_o not_o he_o to_o they_o it_o be_v clear_a that_o they_o have_v no_o power_n to_o dispense_v with_o he_o but_o that_o power_n must_v proceed_v from_o the_o prince_n as_o superior_a to_o they_o all_o and_o head_n of_o the_o protestant_n church_n in_o england_n if_o he_o have_v no_o such_o authority_n how_o can_v he_o give_v to_o other_o what_o himself_o have_v not_o your_o ordination_n or_o consecration_n of_o bishop_n and_o priest_n imprint_v no_o character_n can_v only_o consist_v in_o give_v a_o power_n authority_n jurisdiction_n or_o as_o i_o say_v before_o some_o kind_n of_o deputation_n to_o exercise_v episcopal_a or_o priestly_a function_n if_o then_o the_o temporal_a magistrate_n confer_v this_o power_n etc._n etc._n he_o can_v nay_o he_o can_v choose_v but_o ordain_v and_o consecrate_v bishop_n and_o priest_n as_o often_o as_o he_o confer_v authority_n or_o jurisdiction_n and_o your_o bishop_n as_o soon_o as_o they_o be_v design_v and_o confirm_v by_o the_o king_n must_v ipso_fw-la faclo_fw-la be_v ordain_v and_o consecrate_a by_o he_o without_o intervention_n of_o bishop_n or_o matter_n and_o form_n of_o ordination_n which_o absurdity_n you_o will_v be_v more_o unwilling_a to_o grant_v than_o well_o able_a to_o avoid_v if_o you_o will_v be_v true_a to_o your_o own_o doctrine_n the_o pope_n from_o who_o original_o you_o must_v beg_v your_o succession_n of_o bishop_n never_o receive_v nor_o will_v nor_o can_v acknowledge_v to_o
receive_v any_o spiritual_a jurisdiction_n from_o any_o temporal_a prince_n and_o therefore_o if_o jurisdiction_n must_v be_v derive_v from_o prince_n he_o have_v none_o at_o all_o and_o yet_o either_o you_o must_v acknowledge_v that_o he_o have_v true_a spiritual_a jurisdiction_n or_o that_o yourselves_o can_v receive_v none_o from_o he_o 21._o moreover_o this_o new_a reformation_n or_o reform_a church_n of_o protestant_n will_v by_o they_o be_v pretend_v to_o be_v catholic_a or_o universal_a and_o not_o confine_v to_o england_n alone_o as_o the_o sect_n of_o the_o donatist_n be_v to_o africa_n and_o therefore_o it_o must_v comprehend_v all_o the_o reform_a church_n in_o germany_n holland_n scotland_n france_n etc._n etc._n in_o which_o number_n they_o of_o germany_n holland_n and_o france_n be_v not_o govern_v by_o bishop_n nor_o regard_v any_o personal_a succession_n unless_o of_o such_o fat-beneficed_n bishop_n as_o nicolaus_n amsfordius_fw-la who_o be_v consecrate_v by_o luther_n though_o luther_n himself_o be_v never_o bishop_n as_o witness_v 187._o witness_v in_o millenario_fw-la sexto_fw-la pag._n 187._o dresserus_n and_o though_o scotland_n have_v of_o late_o admit_v some_o bishop_n i_o much_o doubt_v whether_o they_o hold_v they_o to_o be_v necessary_a or_o of_o divine_a institution_n and_o so_o their_o enforce_a admit_v of_o they_o do_v not_o so_o much_o furnish_v that_o kingdom_n with_o personal_a succession_n of_o bishop_n as_o it_o do_v convince_v they_o to_o want_v succession_n of_o doctrine_n since_o in_o this_o their_o neglect_n of_o bishop_n they_o disagree_v both_o from_o the_o mild_a protestant_n of_o england_n and_o the_o true_a catholic_a church_n and_o by_o this_o want_n of_o a_o continue_a personal_a succession_n of_o bishop_n they_o retain_v the_o note_n of_o schism_n &_o heresy_n so_o that_o the_o church_n of_o protestant_n must_v either_o not_o be_v universal_a as_o be_v confine_v to_o england_n or_o if_o you_o will_v needs_o comprehend_v all_o those_o church_n which_o want_v succession_n you_o must_v confess_v that_o your_o church_n do_v not_o only_o communicate_v with_o schismatical_a and_o heretical_a church_n but_o be_v also_o compound_v of_o such_o church_n &_o yourselves_o can_v avoid_v the_o note_n of_o schismatic_n or_o heretic_n if_o it_o be_v but_o for_o participate_v with_o such_o heretical_a church_n for_o it_o be_v impossible_a to_o retain_v communion_n with_o the_o true_a catholic_a church_n and_o yet_o agree_v with_o they_o who_o be_v divide_v from_o she_o by_o schism_n or_o heresy_n because_o that_o be_v to_o affirm_v that_o for_o the_o self_n same_o time_n they_o can_v be_v within_o and_o without_o the_o catholic_a church_n as_o proportionable_o i_o discourse_v in_o the_o next_o precedent_n chapter_n concern_v the_o communicate_v of_o moderate_a protestant_n with_o those_o who_o maintain_v that_o heresy_n of_o the_o latency_n and_o inuisibility_n of_o god_n church_n where_o i_o bring_v a_o place_n of_o s._n cyprian_n to_o this_o purpose_n which_o the_o reader_n may_v be_v please_v to_o review_v in_o the_o five_o chapter_n and_o 17._o number_n 22._o but_o beside_o this_o defect_n in_o the_o personal_a succession_n of_o protestant_a bishop_n there_o be_v another_o of_o great_a moment_n which_o be_v that_o they_o want_v the_o right_a form_n of_o ordain_v bishop_n and_o priest_n because_o the_o manner_n which_o they_o use_v be_v so_o much_o different_a from_o that_o of_o the_o roman_a church_n at_o least_o according_a to_o the_o common_a opinion_n of_o divines_n that_o it_o can_v be_v sufficient_a for_o the_o essence_n of_o ordination_n as_o i_o can_v demonstrate_v if_o this_o be_v the_o proper_a place_n of_o such_o a_o treatise_n and_o will_v not_o fail_v to_o do_v if_o d._n potter_n give_v i_o occasion_n in_o the_o mean_a time_n the_o reader_n may_v be_v please_v to_o read_v the_o author_n 4._o author_n see_v adamum_n tamnerum_fw-la tom_n 4._o disp_n 7._o quaest_n 2._o dub_v 3._o &_o 4._o cite_v here_o in_o the_o margin_n &_o then_o compare_v the_o form_n of_o our_o ordination_n with_o that_o of_o protestant_n and_o to_o remember_v that_o if_o the_o form_n which_o they_o use_v either_o in_o consecrate_v bishop_n or_o in_o ordain_v priest_n be_v at_o least_o doubtful_a they_o can_v neither_o have_v undoubted_a priest_n nor_o bishop_n for_o priest_n can_v be_v ordain_v but_o by_o true_a bishop_n nor_o can_v any_o be_v a_o true_a bishop_n unless_o he_o first_o be_v priest_n i_o say_v their_o ordination_n be_v at_o least_o doubtful_a because_o that_o suffice_v for_o my_o present_a purpose_n for_o bishop_n and_o priest_n who_o ordination_n be_v notorious_o know_v to_o be_v but_o doubtful_a be_v not_o to_o be_v esteem_v bishop_n or_o priest_n and_o no_o man_n without_o sacrilege_n can_v receive_v sacrament_n from_o they_o all_o which_o they_o administer_v unlawful_o and_o if_o we_o except_o baptism_n with_o manifest_a danger_n of_o invalidity_n and_o with_o obligation_n to_o be_v at_o least_o conditional_o repeat_v so_o protestant_n must_v remain_v doubtful_a of_o remission_n of_o sin_n of_o their_o ecclesiastical_a hierarchy_n and_o may_v not_o pretend_v to_o be_v a_o true_a church_n which_o can_v subsist_v without_o undoubted_a true_a bishop_n and_o priest_n nor_o without_o due_a administration_n of_o sacrament_n which_o according_a to_o protestant_n be_v a_o essential_a note_n of_o the_o true_a church_n and_o it_o be_v a_o world_n to_o observe_v the_o proceed_n of_o english_a protestant_n in_o this_o point_n of_o their_o ordination_n for_o first_o ann._n 3._o edw._n 6._o cap._n 2._o when_o he_o be_v a_o child_n about_o twelve_o year_n of_o age_n it_o be_v enact_v that_o such_o eliz._n such_o dyer_n fol_z 234._o term_n mich._n 6._o &_o 7._o eliz._n form_n of_o make_v and_o consecrate_v of_o bishop_n and_o priest_n as_o by_o six_o prelate_n and_o six_o other_o to_o be_v appoint_v by_o the_o king_n shall_v be_v devise_v mark_v this_o word_n devise_v and_o set_v forth_o under_o the_o great_a seal_n shall_v be_v use_v and_o none_o other_o but_o after_o this_o act_n be_v repeal_v 1._o mar._n sess_n 2._o in_o so_o much_o as_o that_o when_o afterward_o an._n 6._o &_o 7._o reg._n eliz._n bishop_n bonner_n be_v indict_v upon_o a_o certifitate_a make_v by_o d._n horn_n a_o protestant_a bishop_n of_o winchester_n for_o his_o refusal_n of_o the_o oath_n of_o supremacy_n and_o he_o except_v against_o the_o endictment_n because_o d._n horn_n be_v no_o bishop_n all_o the_o judge_n resolve_v that_o his_o exception_n be_v good_a if_o indeed_o d._n horn_n be_v not_o bishop_n and_o they_o be_v all_o at_o a_o stand_n till_o an._n 8._o eliz._n cap._n 1._o the_o act_n of_o edw._n 6._o be_v renew_v and_o confirm_v with_o a_o particular_a proviso_n that_o no_o man_n shall_v be_v impech_v or_o molest_v by_o mean_n of_o any_o certificate_n by_o any_o bishop_n or_o archbishop_n make_v before_o this_o last_o act._n whereby_o it_o be_v clear_a that_o they_o make_v some_o doubt_n of_o their_o own_o ordination_n and_o that_o there_o be_v nothing_o but_o uncertainty_n in_o the_o whole_a business_n of_o their_o ordination_n which_o forsooth_o must_v depend_v upon_o six_o prelate_n the_o great_a seal_n act_n of_o parliament_n be_v contrary_a one_o to_o another_o and_o the_o like_a 23._o but_o though_o they_o want_v personal_a succession_n yet_o at_o least_o they_o have_v succession_n of_o doctrine_n as_o they_o say_v &_o pretend_v to_o prove_v because_o they_o believe_v as_o the_o apostle_n believe_v this_o be_v to_o beg_v the_o question_n and_o to_o take_v what_o they_o may_v be_v sure_a will_v never_o be_v grant_v for_o if_o they_o want_v personal_a succession_n and_o sleight_v ecclesiastical_a tradition_n how_o will_v they_o persuade_v any_o man_n that_o they_o agree_v with_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o apostle_n we_o have_v hear_v tertullian_n say_v i_o will_v prescribe_v 〈…〉_o prescribe_v sup._n 〈…〉_o against_o all_o heretic_n that_o there_o be_v no_o mean_n to_o prove_v what_o the_o apostle_n preach_v but_o by_o the_o same_o church_n which_o they_o found_v and_o s._n irenaeus_n tell_v we_o that_o we_o may_v 〈…〉_o may_v l._n 3._o 〈…〉_o behold_v the_o tradition_n of_o the_o apostle_n in_o every_o church_n if_o man_n be_v desirous_a to_o bear_v the_o truth_n and_o we_o can_v number_v they_o who_o be_v make_v bishop_n by_o the_o apostle_n in_o church_n and_o their_o successor_n even_o to_o us._n and_o the_o same_o father_n in_o another_o place_n say_v we_o ought_v to_o obey_v 43._o obey_v l._n 4._o 〈◊〉_d 43._o those_o priest_n who_o be_v in_o the_o church_n who_o have_v succession_n from_o the_o apostle_n and_o who_o together_o with_o succession_n in_o their_o bishopricke_n have_v receive_v the_o certain_a gift_n of_o truth_n s._n augustin_n say_v i_o be_o keep_v in_o the_o church_n 4._o church_n contr._n epist_n fundam_fw-la cap._n 4._o by_o the_o succession_n of_o priest_n from_o the_o
to_o our_o saviour_n christ_n high_a adoration_n be_v exhibit_v as_o to_o god_n or_o as_o bellarmine_n 9_o bellarmine_n de_fw-fr purg._n lib._n 1._o cap._n 9_o say_v we_o distinguish_v saint_n from_o christ_n because_o we_o offer_v sacrifice_n of_o thanksgiving_a for_o saint_n but_o we_o do_v not_o offer_v sacrifice_n for_o christ_n but_o to_o he_o together_o with_o the_o father_n and_o the_o holy_a ghost_n you_o likewise_o falsify_v s._n epiphanius_n while_o you_o say_v out_o of_o he_o that_o the_o live_a have_v hope_n for_o the_o decease_a as_o for_o those_o which_o be_v from_o home_n in_o another_o country_n and_o that_o at_o length_n they_o shall_v attain_v the_o state_n which_o be_v more_o perfect_a which_o last_o word_n be_v not_o in_o s._n epiphanius_n who_o never_o teach_v that_o we_o offer_v prayer_n for_o saint_n that_o they_o may_v attain_v a_o state_n which_o be_v more_o perfect_a and_o when_o s._n epiphanius_n say_v that_o those_o who_o pray_v for_o their_o brethren_n have_v hope_n of_o they_o as_o of_o those_o who_o be_v in_o another_o country_n you_o leave_v out_o pray_v and_o only_o put_v in_o hope_n and_o that_o you_o may_v be_v assure_v how_o contrary_a s._n epiphanius_n be_v to_o you_o not_o only_o in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a but_o also_o in_o the_o ground_n and_o reason_n for_o which_o he_o belâ—â—ues_v it_o namely_o tradition_n mark_v his_o word_n the_o church_n say_v he_o in_o the_o same_o place_n do_v necessary_o practice_v this_o by_o tradition_n receive_v from_o our_o ancestor_n and_o who_o can_v break_v the_o ordination_n of_o his_o mother_n and_o the_o law_n of_o his_o father_n as_o salomoâ—_n say_v hear_v o_o son_n the_o word_n of_o thy_o father_n and_o retect_v not_o the_o ordination_n of_o thy_o mother_n show_v by_o this_o that_o god_n the_o father_n the_o son_n and_o the_o holy_a ghost_n have_v teach_v both_o by_o writing_n and_o without_o writing_n behold_v divine_a tradition_n and_o our_o mother_n the_o church_n have_v also_o in_o herself_o ordinance_n inviolable_a which_o can_v be_v break_v behold_v ecclesiastical_a tradition_n since_o therefore_o there_o be_v ordinance_n set_v down_o in_o the_o church_n and_o that_o all_o be_v right_a and_o admirable_a this_o seducer_n aërius_n remain_v confute_v and_o together_o with_o he_o all_o those_o that_o follow_v his_o heresy_n and_o let_v we_o yet_o hear_v s._n epiphanius_n speak_v a_o little_a before_o of_o another_o point_n thus_o but_o who_o know_v most_o of_o these_o thing_n whether_o this_o delude_a fellow_n aërius_n who_o be_v yet_o aliuâ—â—_n etc._n etc._n or_o those_o who_o before_o we_o have_v yield_v testimony_n and_o have_v have_v the_o tradition_n of_o the_o church_n which_o also_o be_v deliver_v from_o their_o forefather_n as_o they_o likewise_o learn_v of_o those_o who_o be_v before_o they_o in_o which_o manner_n the_o church_n do_v still_o conserve_v the_o true_a faith_n receive_v from_o their_o forefather_n and_o also_o tradition_n consider_v now_o with_o what_o reason_n you_o allege_v s._n epiphanius_n as_o one_o who_o say_v that_o all_o heresy_n be_v to_o be_v confute_v by_o evidence_n of_o scripture_n whereas_o he_o do_v clear_o avouch_v tradition_n in_o general_a and_o do_v in_o particular_a consute_n the_o heresy_n of_o aerius_n without_o allege_v so_o much_o as_o one_o text_n of_o scripture_n 13._o and_o though_o s._n epiphanius_n alone_o may_v suffice_v both_o to_o assure_v we_o what_o be_v the_o heresy_n of_o aërius_n in_o who_o time_n he_o live_v and_o also_o to_o witness_v for_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o greek_a father_n yea_o &_o for_o the_o whole_a church_n because_o he_o avouch_v prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a to_o come_v from_o the_o tradition_n of_o god_n church_n yet_o i_o will_v add_v some_o more_o of_o the_o greek_a church_n as_o s._n dionysius_n areopagita_n who_o say_v then_o the_o venerable_a 1._o venerable_a eccles_n hierarch_n cap._n 1._o bishop_n do_v pray_v over_o the_o dead_a party_n that_o the_o divine_a goodness_n will_v pardon_v all_o his_o sin_n commit_v by_o humane_a frailty_n and_o transfer_v he_o to_o light_n and_o the_o country_n of_o the_o live_n i_o wonder_v then_o how_o in_o your_o text_n your_o can_v tell_v we_o that_o 37._o that_o pag._n 37._o conformable_o to_o your_o opinion_n the_o ancient_a church_n in_o her_o liturgy_n remember_v all_o those_o that_o sleep_v in_o hope_n of_o the_o resurrection_n of_o everlasting_a life_n and_o particular_o the_o patriarch_n prophet_n apostle_n martyr_n &c._n &c._n beseech_v god_n to_o give_v they_o rest_n and_o to_o bring_v they_o you_o put_v in_o a_o parenthesis_n at_o the_o resurrection_n to_o the_o place_n where_o the_o light_n of_o his_o countenance_n shall_v shine_v upon_o they_o for_o evermore_o and_o in_o your_o margin_n you_o cite_v s._n dionysius_n as_o favour_v you_o who_o nevertheless_o in_o the_o very_a chapter_n which_o you_o cite_v for_o your_o opinion_n be_v direct_o against_o you_o in_o the_o word_n even_o now_o allege_v the_o like_a fincerity_n you_o show_v in_o the_o very_a same_o margin_n in_o cite_v s._n cyril_n who_o do_v clear_o affirm_v that_o in_o the_o sacrifice_n we_o remember_v some_o that_o they_o will_v pray_v for_o we_o and_o other_o that_o they_o may_v be_v relieve_v by_o our_o prayer_n and_o sacrifice_n in_o these_o word_n when_o we_o offer_v this_o sacrifice_n 5._o sacrifice_n catech._n 5._o we_o make_v mention_n of_o those_o who_o be_v decease_v of_o patriarch_n etc._n etc._n that_o god_n will_v receyve_v our_o prayer_n by_o their_o intercession_n and_o we_o pray_v for_o all_o who_o be_v decease_v believe_v that_o it_o be_v a_o most_o great_a help_n to_o those_o for_o who_o the_o obsecration_n of_o that_o holy_a and_o dreadful_a sacrifice_n be_v offer_v s._n gregory_n nyssen_n say_v he_o can_v after_o his_o departure_n mortuis_fw-la departure_n in_o orat._n pro_fw-la mortuis_fw-la from_o the_o body_n be_v make_v partaker_n of_o the_o divinity_n unless_o the_o purge_a fire_n shall_v cleanse_v the_o stain_n of_o his_o soul_n 14._o among_o the_o latin_a father_n protestant_n pretend_v to_o esteem_v none_o more_o than_o s._n augustine_n and_o yet_o none_o can_v speak_v more_o plain_o against_o they_o in_o this_o point_n than_o he_o do_v who_o beside_o that_o he_o rank_n aenrius_n among_o the_o heretic_n in_o another_o place_n he_o say_v purge_v i_o 37._o i_o in_o psal_n 37._o in_o this_o life_n in_o such_o sort_n as_o that_o i_o may_v not_o need_v the_o correct_v or_o amend_v fire_n and_o afterward_o it_o be_v say_v he_o shall_v be_v save_v as_o if_o it_o be_v by_o fire_n and_o because_o it_o be_v say_v he_o shall_v be_v save_v that_o fire_n grow_v to_o be_v contemn_v but_o so_o it_o be_v though_o he_o shall_v be_v save_v yet_o the_o pain_n of_o that_o fire_n be_v more_o grievous_a than_o whatsoever_o a_o man_n can_v suffer_v in_o this_o life_n and_o elsw_o where_o some_o suffer_v 13._o suffer_v de_fw-fr civet_n lib._n 21._o c._n 13._o temporal_a punishment_n only_o in_o this_o life_n other_o after_o death_n other_o both_o now_o and_o then_o of_o which_o place_n fulke_n be_v enforce_v to_o say_v augustine_n conclude_v very_o clear_o 110._o clear_o consut_fw-la of_o purg._n pag._n 110._o that_o some_o suffer_v temporal_a pain_n after_o this_o life_n this_o may_v not_o be_v deny_v and_o in_o another_o place_n s._n augustine_n say_v we_o ought_v not_o 34._o not_o de_fw-fr verbis_fw-la apost_n serm_n 34._o to_o doubt_v but_o that_o the_o dead_a be_v holpen_v by_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o holy_a church_n and_o by_o the_o wholesome_a sacrifice_n and_o by_o ailrne_n give_v for_o their_o soul_n that_o our_o lord_n will_v avale_fw-mi with_o they_o more_o merciful_o than_o their_o sin_n have_v deserve_v for_o the_o whole_a church_n observe_v this_o as_o deliver_v from_o our_o father_n neither_o can_v you_o avoid_v these_o authority_n by_o fly_v to_o the_o request_n of_o god_n mercy_n that_o they_o may_v have_v their_o 39_o their_o pag._n 39_o serfect_a consummation_n in_o body_n and_o soul_n in_o the_o kingdom_n of_o god_n at_o the_o last_o judgement_n as_o you_o speak_v for_o beside_o that_o all_o they_o who_o depart_v this_o life_n in_o god_n favour_n be_v most_o assure_v of_o a_o perfect_a consummation_n independant_o of_o our_o almsdeed_n prayer_n &c._n &c._n s._n augustine_n as_o you_o have_v hear_v speak_v of_o a_o purge_v fire_n of_o temporal_a punlishment_n after_o this_o life_n etc._n etc._n and_o do_v elsewhere_o write_v as_o if_o he_o have_v purposely_o intend_v to_o prevent_v this_o your_o evasion_n say_v at_o the_o altar_n joan._n altar_n tract_n 84._o in_o joan._n we_o do_v not_o remember_v martyr_n as_o we_o do_v other_o decease_a who_o rest_n in_o peace_n by_o pray_v for_o they_o but_o rather_o that_o they_o will_v pray_v for_o us._n which_o difference_n between_o martyr_n and_o other_o
as_o about_o the_o canon_n of_o scripture_n etc._n etc._n as_o also_o between_o protestant_n and_o puritan_n etc._n etc._n and_o i_o can_v put_v you_o in_o mind_n of_o your_o brethren_n who_o teach_v that_o for_o diverse_a age_n the_o visible_a church_n perish_v and_o yet_o s._n augustine_n teach_v that_o there_o be_v nothing_o more_o evident_a in_o scripture_n than_o the_o universality_n of_o the_o church_n as_o also_o who_o deny_v that_o bishop_n be_v by_o divine_a institution_n who_o oppose_v your_o whole_a hierarchy_n as_o antichristian_a who_o differ_v from_o you_o in_o the_o form_n of_o ordination_n of_o minister_n all_o which_o be_v fundamental_a point_n but_o i_o will_v refer_v the_o reader_n to_o the_o most_o exact_a brereley_o who_o â—_o who_o tract_n 3._o sect._n 7._o under_o â—_o reckon_v no_o few_o than_o seaventy_n seven_o difference_n among_o you_o punctual_o cite_v the_o book_n and_o page_n where_o you_o may_v find_v they_o and_o yet_o for_o the_o present_a i_o will_v set_v down_o some_o word_n of_o doctor_n willet_n testify_v your_o difference_n from_o this_o fountain_n say_v he_o have_v spring_v 91._o spring_v in_o his_o meditation_n upon_o the_o 122._o psa_fw-la pag._n 91._o forth_o these_o and_o such_o like_a whirlepoint_n and_o bubble_n of_o new_a doctrine_n as_o for_o example_n that_o the_o scripture_n be_v not_o mean_n concern_v god_n of_o all_o that_o profitable_o we_o know_v that_o they_o be_v not_o alone_o complete_a to_o everlasting_a felicity_n that_o the_o word_n of_o god_n can_v possible_o assure_v we_o what_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n that_o there_o be_v work_n of_o supererogation_n that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n as_o it_o now_o stand_v be_v the_o family_n of_o christ_n that_o idolater_n and_o wicked_a heretic_n be_v member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n let_v d._n potter_n here_o remember_v what_o himself_o say_v of_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o what_o he_o relate_v about_o the_o opinion_n of_o m._n hooker_n and_o m._n morton_n that_o among_o heretic_n there_o may_v be_v a_o true_a church_n that_o there_o be_v in_o ordination_n give_v a_o indelible_a character_n that_o they_o have_v power_n to_o make_v christ_n body_n that_o sacrament_n be_v necessary_a in_o their_o place_n and_o no_o less_o require_v than_o belief_n itself_o that_o the_o soul_n of_o infant_n die_v without_o baptism_n be_v damn_v etc._n etc._n do_v you_o think_v that_o the_o necessity_n of_o baptism_n and_o other_o sacrament_n the_o sufficiency_n of_o sole_a scripture_n which_o your_o english_a clergy_n profess_v at_o their_o ordination_n and_o those_o other_o point_n be_v but_o small_a matter_n but_o beside_o these_o and_o many_o more_o there_o be_v two_o other_o main_a general_a &_o transcendent_a difference_n among_o you_o the_o one_o whether_o you_o do_v not_o differ_v in_o main_a point_n which_o though_o you_o deny_v yet_o other_o affirm_v the_o other_o what_o be_v main_a or_o fundamental_a point_n upon_o which_o two_o difference_n iâ—_n will_v necessary_o follow_v that_o you_o can_v know_v whether_o you_o have_v the_o same_o substance_n of_o faith_n and_o hope_v of_o salvation_n or_o no._n but_o though_o your_o difference_n be_v all_o reduce_v to_o one_o and_o that_o how_o small_a soever_o that_o one_o be_v sufficient_a to_o exclude_v unity_n of_o faith_n among_o you_o as_o i_o have_v often_o say_v and_o prove_v i_o have_v no_o mind_n to_o spend_v time_n in_o tell_v you_o how_o unschollerlike_a you_o say_v two_o brother_n 87._o brother_n pag._n 87._o in_o their_o choler_n may_v renounce_v each_o other_o and_o disclaim_v their_o amity_n yet_o that_o heat_n can_v dissolve_v their_o inward_a and_o essential_a relation_n for_o when_o a_o man_n brother_n die_v do_v he_o loose_v any_o essential_a relation_n i_o always_o think_v that_o essential_a relation_n be_v inseparable_a from_o the_o essence_n to_o which_o they_o belong_v and_o the_o essence_n from_o they_o and_o a_o man_n who_o still_o remain_v a_o 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against_o zwinglius_fw-la let_v himself_o declare_v in_o these_o word_n which_o you_o can_v not_o but_o read_v in_o charity-mistaken_a i_o have_v now_o one_o of_o my_o foot_n 53._o foot_n pag._n 53._o in_o the_o grave_n will_v carry_v this_o testimony_n and_o glory_n to_o the_o tribunal_n of_o god_n that_o i_o will_v with_o all_o my_o heart_n condemn_v and_o eschew_v carolostadius_fw-la zwinglius_fw-la oecolampadius_n and_o their_o disciple_n nor_o will_v i_o have_v familiarity_n with_o any_o of_o they_o either_o by_o letter_n writing_z word_n nor_o deed_n according_o as_o the_o lord_n have_v command_v if_o in_o polonia_n the_o follower_n of_o luther_n and_o caluin_n have_v long_o live_v together_o in_o concord_n as_o you_o will_v have_v we_o believe_v the_o thing_n be_v real_o not_o true_a they_o must_v thank_v the_o good_a catholic_a king_n under_o who_o they_o live_v who_o be_v able_a and_o apt_a to_o punish_v when_o there_o be_v great_a excess_n but_o if_o they_o have_v the_o 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