positively affirm they did consist for the most part of visible wicked men abhominable disobedient and to every good work reprobate for which you give no proof but your own conjecture yet thereupon pass sentence upon all my discourse that it is not at all to the purpose but I presume every unprejudiced man will judge you have clearly lost your cause if it can be made good that the member of our Parishes are such as the Apostolical Churches were even in their state of degeneration which you so much harp upon you deny not but they were true Churchrs and their Members called Saints notwithstanding therefore if our Members appear to be as good Saints as they were their matter then is undoubtedly right let them come into comparison there were amongst them very many in some of these Churches by far the greater number Schismatical Heretical Carnal Proud Lovers of Preheminence Supercilious Censurers Contentious Abusers of Christian Liberty Prophaners of the Lords Supper Gluttons Drunkards Pelly-Gods disorderly Walkers Idle Busie-bodies such as had not repented of the Vncleanness and Fornication and Lasciviousness which they had committed Enemies to the Cross of Christ Minders of earthly things Contemners of the holy Apostle their spiritual Father having a Form of Godliness but denying the power of it profâ—ssing to know God but in their works denying him Abominable Luke warm c. you cannot I suppose find worse then these in our Assemblies What they were at their first forming it makes no matter to me at present yet some being really Saints such as you describe the whole Churches are acknowledged Societies of Saints the denomination being taken not from the greater but better part so a Field where good Corn hath been sowne and some grows is called a Corn field a Wheat heap though most Chaff Gold Oare though more Dross than Gold You say there may be some in Gods favor in our Congregations but if an Holy Humble Wise Exact Gracious conversation argue men to be in the favor of God an impartial Eye may easily discern more such in a few of our Assemblies than in most of the Seperate Societies Yea if you be ingenious you will acknowleage that the Holiness which mâ—st of all your Members have saving in two or three new Opinions they learnt it in and had it from our Parechial Congregations a little Practical holiness serves the turn of too many when they have forsaken us and joyned with you you spend but might as well have spared a multitude of words in declaiming against our peoples profession of the true Faith without works the stress of the Argument is not laid upon verbal profession though let me tell you if it were it might sink your Cause for as true Faith gives being to the invisible Church so does prefession of the true Faith and not Moral Obedience give being to the visible Do you no read of many who upon their verbal Prosession were Baptized by the Apostles themselves and incorporated into the Church Did not Obedience of Faith make the Gentiles Churches Rom. 1. 5. 8. And if Obedience to the Commandements be so necessary to the life and first being of a true Gospel Church that question would be resolved What difference there is between the Covenant of Grace and of Works That which I affirm stands firm upon a sure foundation that where a whole Society professeth all fundamental Truths though the greater part be naught yet if soms of them be Saints indeed Christ owns it for his Church for their sake the Church of Sardis had a name to live i. e. consisted of verbal Professors but it was dead The generality were void of Grace and wicked Members yet for the sakes of a few names that had not defiled their Garments Christ owns it for his Church You say God had some such thing in Babilon If you will say Babilon profosseth the true Faith I will say and prove it a true Church for the sakes of Gods People in it the reason of whose Evocation may easily appear to be their devilish Doctrins pertinaciously held for which their damnation was at the door But you frequently urge the wicked ones in Sardis and other Gospel-Churches were visible Saints at first and yet you bring no proof at all besides your own presumption that they brought more than a verbal profession to make them so or if you could evince they did no prejudice would come thereby to my Argument which proceeds not upon that which you call first constitution that our 8432. Parishes as you number them were at their first constitution for the most part abominable c. is also void of proof I might moreover add that our members may bee called visible Saints because they bear the badge of holy Baptisme and so are sacramentally holy every one of them as Jeâ—usalem when it was worser than Sodom was called the holy Ciâ—â—â— buâ— I forbear to press this because you hold our baptisme a nullâ—â—ie I may happily ere long prove yours to bee so besides the sanctâ—â—y of that doctrine which wee profess may give us the name of Sâ—ints comparatively or in respect of Heathens in opposition to whom the Apostle calls thoâ—e to whom he writes Saints I perceive the name of Paâ—ish is extream distasteful to you and all of your way which yet is nothing else in signification but the confining of Churches within convenient local limits were is not that I finde sundry learned godly men whose treatises are or may be in your hands abundantly vindicating both the name and thing among others Mr. Hollingworth in his rejoynder to Mr. Eaton and Mr. Taylers Reply chap 2. shewing how Parishes are jure divino and how not and Mr. Cawdin in his Review of Mr. Hookers survey who gives six satisâ—actory Answers to that first Negative Conclusion viz. That Parish precincts do not give a man Right or make him more fit for a visible Congregation Chap. 2. p. 87. c. I should spend some pains and time to stop your mouth from quarrelling with the term and make it appear that there is no reason why the number of these bounds by whomsoever measured should offend any to their writings I refer you and follow you from the matter to the form of a visible Church viz. Combination or Conjunction in Covenant which is in our Assemblies and is manifested by their constant meeting every Lords day c. You say you denied a Covenant to be the form of a Church which I remember not I am sure some of the seven that took your part in the dispuâ—ation who were Anti-pedo baptists and were lookt upon by many hearers as Herods taking part with Pilate against Christ did expresly own it and the Argument proceeded with your Approbation and you now shew your gratefulness to them by a tender touch of their name and justifie their mutual Covenanting and consederating in the fellowship of the Faith as that which gives being and constitution to a
Minor thus Where ever the word of God is faithfully and constantly Preached to the Ears and Eyes of people and by them attended and submitted unto there Christ is present by his grace But the word of God is faithfully and constantly preached in the Parochial Assemblies of England c. Ergo. Again Where Christ by his Spirit in the Ministry of his word converts confirms and comforts his people there is the special presence of his Grace But in our Assemblies Christ converts c. Ergo he is present with us Lastly Where there is a settled meeting together in the name of Christ for a true worship of Christ there is Christ present But there is such a meeting by the Assemblies of England Ergo. The Major I grant id est 1 Where Christ dwells by the special Answ 1. 0. presence of his Grace as they be golden Candlesticks a house of God a Sion there must needs be a true Church for it is no more but as if you should say thus where the presence of Christ is with a society as they are a true Church there must needs be a Church for all those expressions Candlestick Sion house are but special tearms emphatically to set forth the nature of that one thing the Church for the Candlesticks are the Church Rev. 1. 20. The House of God is the Church 1 Tim 3. 15. But now I deny the Minor I deny that God dwells in the Parishes of this Nation as a Church I deny not but that God may be present with some who walk in the sincerity of their hearts to what they know but that God dwells with the Parishes generally of which the Question is as a Church I deny And now to the proofs of your Minor you argue thus Where ever the word is faithfully c. I deny that the word is faithfully preached in the Parishes of Answ 1. this Nation generally 2. I deny that the word such as it is is generally submitted unto except by assent and by submitting you understand a bare acknowledgment of the things taught to be true then the consequence is abundantly false for the wickedst men in the world perhaps the Devils themselves may assent and submit so far and no man will say such may make a true Church Lastly I deny the Consequence that wheresoever the word is truly preached there the presence of Christ is as it is a Church A bare denial might be sufficient to a bare assertion for you have given neither Scripture nor reason for your Argument But I answer first thus If in many Parishes of this Nation there be ignorant idle dumb doggs for the Ministers of those places then the Word cannot be faithfully preached there But in many of the Parishes of this Nation there are such Ergo the consequence is undeniable The Minor is your own words For the first time I heard you Preach and excepted against you you applyed those words of the Prophet Esay 56. to some of the Ministers of this Nation Secondly That word that they do Preach such as it is is not obeyed nor submitted to upon your own grounds for if the word be generally truely preached and generally truely submitted to it must unavoidably follow that all the men in all the Parishes of this Nation are faithful people which is false because in their works they do evidently deny it and to say they be faithful people is first to Preach plain contradictions one while denouncing Gods judgements against them as wicked unbelievers another while when you are put to prove them Churches tell them they be faithful people to sow pillows under their elbows and to say Peace when there is none and making them to trust in lying words that will not profit Jer. 7. 4. Ezek. 13. 10. Thirdly I deny the Consequence Though the word should be truly Preached and assented and submitted to that will not prove that place to be the place where the presence of Christ is as it stands related to the Church according to your Scriptures because the presence of Christ in the faithful Preaching of his word and also submission to may be separable sometimes from the Church and therefore cannot be a note seeing that which is a note of a thing to know it by must agree to it and to it only and at all times You argue further Where Christ by his Spirit Converts c. Answer The special presence of Christ may be considered two ways Either with Believers simply as such being fit matter for a Church or Secondly as they be a company of Believers joyned together in Gospel-order being a Temple built up by God for an habitation for himfelf through the Spirit Ephes 2. 21 If the presence of Christ be by you understood in this last sense which is only to your purpose your first Argument standing in that form then I deny the Consequence because that both Conversion by the Ministry of the word c. may be separable from the Church and performed out of the Church as is so evident it needs no proof Lastly you reason thus Where there is a meeting together c. Answ I deny that there is such a meeting by the Parishes of England as that in Matth. 18. for the presence of Christ there spoken of is that when two or three that are truly Godly are met together to desire something of the Lord he will grant their requests because he at that time is present with them but what is this to the general meeting of the Parishes of this Nation where many nay the most are openly wicked some meeting for fashion because others do some for Custom because they have done so to hear a Sermon a Prayer and then depart not knowing what the power of Godliness is what I say that meeting in Matth. 18. is to this is a riddle to me and truly Sir I wonder why you left your Minor so helpless adding neither one Scripture nor Reason to help it You grant my Major but in such a sense as is to me non sense when Reply Dr. B. I say those Societies where Christ dwels by his special presence are his Church you say true if he dwels in them as they be his Church You might have done better to have waved your Asses and given us an instance of any one Societie where Christ was ever so present that could be evicted by the Word not to have been his Church Where ever the Kings Personal presence is there is the Court and so where Christs special Gracious presence is there is his Church the Scriptures which you speak nothing to plainly hold forth this doctrine that the Assemblies where Christ is peculiarly resident and gives out speciall tokens of his grace are his Churches and that he is in such a manner present no where els in all the world I reason thus Christ is only visibly present in his visible Church therefore where he is discerned so present there is his visible Church
Psal 63. 1 2. You deny my Minor with the same limitation as you granted the Major God dwels not you say in the Parishes of this Nation as a Church I will to gratify and if it be possible to convince you make good that Christ dwels in the Parishes of this Nation as a Church by those three Reasons evidencing his presence amongst us For the fortifying whereof I was sparing in bringing Scripture-proof or farther reason not because I had not store of both but because I judged it needless to light a Candle to the Sun but seeing you tax me for bare Asserting you shall see me strongly Confirming each of the Reasons taking in your own restriction First I prove the Faithfull Constant Preaching of the Word to be a note of Christs presence with a people as a Church Deus 4. 7 8. So nigh unto them this speciall neerness of God is proved because they had the Law set before them i. e. fixed among them Psal 147. 19 20. By Word he means his will revealed in the Scriptures given to his Church as a most precious and peculiar treasure Zech. 8. 23. The reason why the Gentiles should joyn themselves to the Jews is because the Word was with them we have heard by your Preaching this was the great and glorious prerogative of the Jews which afterward they lost and as soon as they lost it ceased to be a Church Acts 13. 46. the Apostle witnesseth this to be the greatest privilege the Jews had Rom. 3. 1 2. If this be a peculiar privilege to the Church of God to have a standing fixed preaching of the Word among them and if no People in the world can be named that had this ordinance of preaching which were not Gods Church then this is a sure sign Secondly it appears that his working saving Grace by this Ordinance is as a sure sign 1 Cor. 14. 24 25. he will report that God is in you as a Church of a truth John 4. 22. Christ proves the Jewes to be a true Church Because Salvation might be had there out of the Church there is no salvation ordinarily If you can shew that Christ is present to Convert c. in any Societie where his word is faithfully and constantly Preached that is not his Church this Reason shall stand for invalid Thirdly the meeting mentioned Matth. 18. you deny not to be a Church-meeting therefore where a Societie meet to worship God by Prayer as you expound it or for the Administration of Church Censures as the place carries it there Christ is present as his Church Now that the Word is faithfully and constantly Preached in our Assemblyes and that Christ Converts c. by our Preaching and that our People meet together to pray in his Name is manifest to all the world that we have idle ignorant Ministers in many Congregations and a great multitude that want the power of Godliness among us c. is acknowledged but it s well known as bad of both sorts were in the Church of the Jewes and in the Apostolicall Churches which notwithstanding remained true Churches while he continued his presence and they met and joyned in his true worship till God gave them a bill of divorce and withdrew his presence and they cast off Gods true worship through obstinacie Those Assemblies that are built upon the Foundation of the Arg. 5. Prophets and Apostles are true Churches Ephes 2. 19 20. But ours are so built for they have the whole Doctrine of the Old Dr. B. and New Testament for the infallible and immoveable ground of their Faith whereby they subsist in Church-Communion I deny you Minor What you mean by these words they have Answ J. O. the whole Doctrine c. is doubtfull if by having of it you mean Christ hath left this Old and New Testament in the world for the immoveable ground of mens Faith that 's true but nothing to the purpose for if so it 's left to all men and many men may also beleeve it to be so and yet be so far from being built upon it as they walk and build directly from it If you mean that they have it in the practise of it so as they practically build upon it that 's false for such Persons are built upon it as the Apostle holds out in that Chapter such who were dead but now alive saved by Grace such who were made to sit in heavenly places in Christ Now the greater part of the men in your Parishes are such as were never spiritually alive lying in their sins still unquickned therefore they are not built upon that Foundation practically When I say our Assemblies are built upon Propheticall and Apostolicall Reply Doctrine I mean there is no other Doctrine taught or own'd with us but what hath warrant from the Old and New Testament Dr. B. if there be shew it now that hence it followes we are therefore Gods true Church is apparent from the Apostles Scope proving the Ephesians to be the Houshold of God because they were so built for that by building is meant Owning and Confessing the truth I prove from that of our Saviour Mat. 16. 18. nor can you shew any Society Confessing the whole truth of God that was not a true Church The want of Practise which you allege in the greatest part of our Members weakens not at all the force of the Argument for the very same is taxed by our Saviour in the Church of Sardis Rev. 3. 1. Thou hast a name to live and art dead the generalitie of the members of that Church were voyd oâ— Grace and ungodly men and yet Christ owns it for his Church in the beginning of that verse and how far the Church of Corinth and other Gospell Churches were from being built practically in your sense you have heard sufficiently and yet blessed be God we have in our Parochiall Churches a competent number of practicall Christians that walk exactly according to the rule of the Gospell for whose sakes if you had the Spirit of Christ you would I suppose acknowlege our whole Societies to be his visible Churches That Church that is the pillar and ground of truth is the true Arg. 6. Church 1 Tim. 3. 15. but so is the Church of England in respect of the profession and maintenance of true Religion which it both Dr. B. supporteth as a Pillar and maketh it openly known to others defending it against all Errors Contradictions and Corruptions whatsoever Revel 2. 13. You subtilly alter the termes of the question that the folly of your Argument may not appear instead of these words the Parishes of this Nation you say the Church of England which you ought not to have done the Argument from these words if it include the Question must proceed thus That Church which is the Pillar and ground of Truth is a true Church but so are the Parishes of this Nation in their maintaining and professing true Religion supporting
his own c. But your fellowship is directly contrary one sortfed with all delicious fare cloathed with gorgeous Apparell and pride abominable and the other sort one company working and toyling more than they be well able and glad if they may be set on work and all to get a few cloathes and food and yet cannot get enough to satisfie they being tormented by the oppression of the rich that as the Lord saith their faces are ground and their burdens are almost insupportable the other sort begging from door to door which is miserable to see in that Nation where many vainely spend so much in one hour as would relieve many a poor creature ready to perish with cold and famisht with hunger all which is evident by lamentable experience and yet you have the boldness to compare your Parishes with those in Acts 2. betwixt which there is as much difference as betwixt light and darkness Those that continue not in the Apostles doctrine and fellowship c. are no true Churches but the Parishes of this Nation continue â—ot c. Ergo they are not true Churches the Major is your own by the rule of contraries the Minor is Evident by that which hath been said You render us a reason of your separation from us which whether it will hold when God shall ask you Who hath required this Reply Dr. B. at your hands you have just reason to question groundless separation and Church-division being as great a sin as Adultery or Theft Our Blessed Saviour and his Disciples separated not from Assemblies whose teachers and members were worse than ours read Matth. 23. nor can you find any command or example in all the Scripture for separating from Societies that hold all fundamental Truths and join together in Gods true worship as ours do The doctrine and practice of the Apostles in Baptizing Jews or Heathens brought within the Pale of the Church professing their Faith and Repentance and desiring to be sealed with this Sacrament for the strengthening of their Souls in this Faith as these here did is the doctrine of our Churches our doctrine and practice of Baptizing Infants of Believers is so far from being directly Contrary to the doctrine of the Apostles there being neither here nor any where els any word of theirs forbidding to baptize Infants as that there is very cleer warrant in this very place to Baptize such Infants For the Apostle makes it his Argument to them to be willing to receive Baptism because the promise is made to them and their Children and to as many as the Lord our God shall call and to their Children this must needs be understood or els the promise to Believing Gentiles is not of the same Latitude as it is to Believing Jews I presume you will acknowledge that the Covenant of Grace is as fair and full to these Now if the Promise be made to Believers and their Children the Command must reach not only to them but to their Children also running thus be Baptized you and your Children for the promise is made to you and your Children if otherwise this that wâ—s intended to be an effectual motive would have been an effectual disswasive and deterred Parents from accepting Baptism and renouncing Circumcision to which initial sign their Infant-Children till now had right having privilege of Church Membership as well as Parents which by this acceptance they must lose and be cast into a condition like that of Infidels Which losse to the Church by Christs coming seemes to be no less than of denial of his coming in the flesh Moreover the Apostles practice in Baptizing whole families a part whereof and the greatest part for the most part Children are immediatly upon the parents believing is a warrantable pattern for the practice of our Churches Your objection that there is no express mention of Infants Baptized in those families notwithstanding your selves will take liberty to believe that many were Baptized of whose Baptism there is no mention made in Scripture the twelve Apostles for instance nor is it said there were wives or servants in those families You do not well to call all Infants unhued and unsquared Timber have you never read what the Scripture saith of Infant-Children born within the bosome of the Church Esay 65. 20. The Child shall by an hundred years old that is he shall be as well instructed by Gods inward teaching according to that promise Esae 53. 14. As if he had lived under the Churches teaching an hundred years And if some Children be timber hued and squared for the Kingdom of Glory Mark 10 14 why should it be thought a thing incredible with you that they be squareable for the Kingdom of Grace Moreover that place in 1 Cor. 10. 1 2. If duely considered more than probably proves that it was an Apostolical practice to Baptize Infants born within the Church if not it will be difficult to make the Apostles Comparison of the two Churches and their Sacraments and subjects thereof to run parallell Your pleading for Anabaptistical Community I think not worth replying to as neither your declaming against the hardheartedness of some of our rich members you will find as bad or worse among the members of the Churches Apostolical read 1 Cor. 11. 21 22. and Jam. 2. and 5. We are not therefore overbold to compare our doctrine and fellowship with the Primitive degrees of Purity in doctrine and practice we easily yield them above us But the same Truth we hold fast and will not let it go we teach no other doctrine have fellowship in no other worship Ergo we are true Churches Those Christian Societies that have the true Ministry of Christ Arg. 8. Dr. B. set over them for their Pastors and Spiritual Rulers are true Churches Ephes 4. 11 12. But so have the Parishes of England Ergo. That the Ministers of England are true Ministers appeares by their ordination which was by laying on of the hands of the Presbytery Secondly by their abilities both 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2 Tim. 2. 15. Galat. 2. 14. Thirdly by Gods blessing on their endeavours and labours 2 Cor. 3. 1. I deny the Minor in the proof whereof you forget your self you should Answ I. O. say thus that the Parishes of this Nation have a true Ministry of Christ set over them and then the question is Who set them you say it appeares first by their Ordination c. I answer your Ordination is false and that upon a double account and seeing you either will not or cannot prove it true but onely barely affirm without proof I will give you the grounds of my deniall First the Presbytery by which you were ordained which is the Bishops now it is undeniable they had their Ordination from the Pope and I am sure he had his from the Devill Now the Devill ordaining the Pope the Pope the Bishops the Bishops you how can you be true Ministers by
And when I see it I will return you an answer To the second viz. that we rob Gods people of their right c. I answer The expression Rob is as unsuitable as untrue for we take not away that in the night nor secretly in the day that which we are afraid to be taken with in the light but what we withhold we proclame and give nay invite all to bring in their evidence That if they for Infants can lay just claim thereunto they shall be admitted Sir take heed you pronounce not sentence of Condemnation against your selves for I think was it material it might easily be made appear that you rob Goa's people of their right and that in many things But that we do not rob Goa's people of their right you shall be witness and your self shall answer your self and that may the soonest give your self and others satisfact on thus from the notation of the word Church which signifies you say argument thirteen a company called out from the world unto Christ come together upon that call c. Whence I thus reason If the word Church signifie such a company so call'd so come then it 's impossible for such who were never thus called thus come neither yet are in a capacity to be of that company For words significant arisâ— from the nature of the thing to which they are applied and where the answering of the signification of a word is not to be found there that word is improperly applied as I think all men will grant and Scripture example is full but the word Church so signifies This is your own Ergo. Now that Infants are not called out of the world by the Word come together upon that call c. is undeniable Therefore Infants are not of that Company Thus if to deny Infants Church-membership be rebery it 's the Notation of the Word Church and your thirteenth Argument that is the theef Sir you must either repeal this thirteenth Argument or it will utterly repeal Infants Church-membership and put you to prove where and when it was done and for Acts the 2. and Romans 11. where you say it 's Confirmed I answer When you have reconciled this thirteenth Argument and Infant-Church-membership together and drawn your Arguments from Acts 2. Rom. 11. to prove it I will return you an answer And for your third reason where you say we want a true form c. I answer we make not an express Covenant the form of a visible Church as you well know therefore this makes nothing against us we may be true Churches for all that if what you say be true Either our Congregations are true Churches or there were none Arg. 12. Dr. B. since Christ and the Apostles for what Churches can be shewed that have come neerer the rule in respect of Doctrine and for Government the Jus divinum regiminis Ecclesiastici And Provincial vindication have sufficiently evinced the Presbyterian government to lay just claim to divine Right But the latter is false for the gates of Hell never did never shall prevail against the Church 1. To say that if you be not true Churches there have been none Answ J. O. since Christ c. is confidently to dictat and Magisterially to set down without the least colour of proof that which is so principal a Question betwixt us for we have abundantly offered to make good that we come neerer the rule first in Respect of doctrine than you and for government which you say is sufficiently evinced in the Jus Divinum c. I shall pay you with your own coyn and that may soonest satisfie thus your Presbyterian government hath been abundantly confuted and the Independâ—â—cy of Churches in Relation to a sufficiency in herself for the performance of all the Ordinances of Christ by the learned Mr. Hooker in his survey of Church discipline Secondly I deny that the latter is false by vertue of that Scripture if you understand it of the visible Church which is only to your purpose for the gates of Hell may nay hath prevailed yea overcome the visible Church as the Revelations abundantly makes manifest Sir I wonder you have not so much foresight as to see how upon your own * He that can make it appear that this place is meant of the visible Church and that which is a true Church shall alwaies visibly appear will do the Pope essential service he no doubt will return him many thanks he will undeniably prove Rome a true Church because Rome once only visibly appeared keeping down all others principles your own arguments wound your self For where was the visibility of your Presbyterian Church in the midst of Popery except you will say Rome was it where is the line of your succession I doubt it is utterly lost and so upon your own interpretation of Scripture you prove your selves false Churches From the notation of the word Church which signifies a Company Arg. 13. Dr. B. called out of the world unto Christ by the word come together upon that call all are called externally and some effectually This Argument fiâ—rcely fights against nay cuts the throat of the Answ I. O. Causes it should defend for the word Church signifying such a Company so called so come doth utterly exclude all not so called so come being of that Company now beyond dispute it is that the generality of People in the Parishes of this Nation were never visibly called out of the world c. Therefore not possibly to be concluded of that Company I had alwaies thought there had been a World in England what are all the Carnal wicked covetous persons in the Parishes of this Nation called out from the world to Christ if they have not as any man that hath but the least spark of godliness may easily see how dare you apply this notation of the word to them if this be not to sow Pillows under all Arm-holds making them trust in living words saying the Temple of the Lord the Temple of the Lord so you the Church Church-Members faithful people c. I am much mistaken Sir take beed lest that fall upon you spoken of Pro. 17. 15. all you say called externally some effectually Answer if by external call you mean a bare call by the Preaching of the word without a visible submission thereunto you are contrary to your self which is not of a verbal call simply but of a calling Oâ—t and a comming thereupon unto Christ if you say they are visibly called out c. nothing can be spoken more falsly common sense proves the contrary and what the effectual calling of some is to prove that all are externally called out according to the notation of the word is to me a Paradox Our Churches are in Covenant with God Ergo They are true Churches the consequence is evident from Psal 50. 5. where the Arg. 14. D. B. Prophet implies that by being in Covenant with God Men are really a Church
to confirm this are at large related 2. Though Popish Apostacy did afterward for many Ages overspread all the Churches in England yet they believe God still reserved a remnant for whose sakes he preserved the holy Scriptures amongst them and baptism in the name of the Trinity only and when God of his rich grace was pleased to stir up the Spirit of King Edward the sixth and Queene Elizabeth to cast off the Pope c. though at first some Sbires and sundry Parishes stood out against that Reformation for a time yet afterwards they generally received the Articles of Religion agreed upon Anno 1562. which are published and consented to by all the Ministers endowed with the silent consent also of the People and Subscription of the hands of the chief of them containing the Marrow and Summe of the Oracles of God which are the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Eloquia Dei concredited only to the Church We doe therefore acknowledge that where the People doe with common and mutuall consent gather into setled Congregations every Lords day as in England they do to hear and teach this Doctrin and doe profess their subjection thereunto and doe bind themselves and their Children as in Baptism they doe to continue therein that such Congregations are true Churches much more you may read in their Treatise of Church Covenant in their Answer to the eleventh Objection where they shew that if Christian Congregations in England were at the first combined by Covenant the Eternity of Gods Covenant is such that it is not the Interposition of many Corruptions that may arise in after-time that can disanull the same c. That Objection also that the Members of our Parishionall Assemblies were not brought in by their own voluntary profession but by the Authority and Proclamation of the Prince as also that Rome and the Assemblies of Papists may go for true Churches also you shall find there very fully answered The Name of Parish I perceive all along is stumbled at as Popish as are the names of Parsons Vicars and Curats which is the main if not the only Reason why some of you cast off both the English Churches and Ministers and yet the thing signified by the name is owned by Scripture and upon that account Mr. Hollingworth proves Parishes to be of Divine Right to whom I formerly referr'd you and reason it self evinceth it most expedient for the better performance of those duties which arise from Church-Membership that the Members should cohabit or dwell as neer together as conveniently they may It 's falsely charged upon as that we hold Parish Precincts give a man right or make him matter fit for a visible Congregation but the Question is of a Nation or City Christian whether the bounds of Parishes discreetly measured may not rationally be fixed as most expedient for Religious Meetings seeing all cannot meet in one place and if the Members of a Parish be visible Saints you will not say it is not lawfull to limit the Congregation unto such read the Review formerly cited and that our Congregations generally consist of such though not in your yet in a Scripture sense hath been in part and shall be more fully proved In your Answer to the first Branch I see nothing worth replying to 1. The World out of which this Nation when made Christian was called every mans Eyes but yours easily see 2. Many Members of the best Churches retain the lusts of the World in their hearts and 3 May be deadly Enemies one to another bite and devour one another yea and be Enemies to their faithfull Ministers for telling them the truth and yet the effects of Gospel gathering seen well enough To the second branch 1. You say we retain the Constitution which we had from Popery which is very false for we rejected Popery embraced Gods holy truths and joyned together in true worship and so were Matter and Form distant far enough from Popish Rulers you mean we retain the same Parish bounds which Papists left us to which sufficient hath been spoken 2. You deny the Command of the Magistrate assisting the publick Preaching of the Gospel to be a means appointed and approved of God for the gathering or recalling of a back-slided People That the Magistrates duty is to command yea and compell men that have forsaken their God and the true Faith to return again to God I proved by the approved examples of the good Kings undor the old Testament which you throw off very lightly as if old-Testament-Proofs were of no force whereas the Apostle expresly teacheth that the Gospel Churches are built upon the Prophets as well as the Apostles Ephes 2. 20. And that I may farther convince you of your Errour and Folly in slighting these Examples 1. You cannot but grant that what these good Kings did was by vertue of divine warrant Deut. 13. 5-11 17. 2. Exod. 22. 20. 2. It will thus appear that these Rules and Patterns are binding under the New Testament 1. Because we find no Repeal of these Precepts no Prohibition of these Practises 2. This Power is of Common and Naturall Equity and that which is answerable to the Morall Law binds under the Gospel 3 This Power was established and exercised upon Morall grounds and for Moral ends Deut 13. 5. 11. 4. We find this very thing prophesied of the times of the New Testament Es 49. 23. Zech. 13. 3. 5. The Apostle makes Rulers a terrour to evill works and Revengers to execute wrath upon Evil Doers without limitation or exception and you will not deny transgressions of the first Table to be evill works Moreover you cannot but remember that it is a Gospel-expression Compel them to come in Your first Argument from the Apostles gathering Churches without the Magistrates help there being no Christian Magistrate proves the Power of God who can make his Word alone Effectual but it proves not that had there been Christian Magistrates they ought not to have aided by their authority or that the Apostles would not have called for their assistance The consequence of your second Argument is absurd If I have Bread and Water to preserve my life must I not make use of these because I want those other means which God hath appointed and which when he sees good he will add to these to make my life more comfortable Your conclusion of this Answer is a triumph before the victory My following Argument which you say will melt like Snow before the Sun may make a floud which will sweep away your refuge of lyes James 3. 14 15. Those Assemblies wherein Christ dwells by the special presence Arg. 4. Dr. B. of his Grace are true visible Churches but Christ dwells in the Parochial Assemblies of England by the special presence of his Grace Ergo the Parochial Assemblies of England are true visible Churches The Major proved Rev. 1. 12 13 Psal 132 13 14. Exod. 25. 31. 1 Tim. 3. 15. 2 Cor. 6. 16. The
it as a Pillar c. Now Sir The Minor is evidently false the very naming of it is Confutation sufficient it being evident to behold that the Parishes of this Nation have always been and still are inclinable to whatsoever their Teachers and Rulers set up without ever questioning the truth of it except here and there a man which is nothing to our question it being of the Parishes generally Look upon them in the time of Popery and produce one Parish-Church much less all that opposed the power of the Pope but all inclinable to that wicked worship so in the time of Prelacy how conformable to that never once talking then of Presbytery and I believe as formerlâ— so now if the power of this Nation should enact that al should turn Independents they would obey without any general opposition and within this few years would as little think of Presbytery which you think to be truth now as they did then when he was Counted an Hereticke that believed not as the Church believed Which was then the scarlet-coloured whore of Rome and yet you let not to say they have been the Pillar of Truth defending it against all Errors which if true Presbytery is false in that the Parishes of this Nation have born Testimony to two contrary Religions Popery and Prelacy That Church that one time professeth Popery and another while Prelacy being variable according to the times in which she lives that Church is not the Pillar and ground of truth But the Parishes of this Nation have one while c. Ergo and for Revel 2. 13. When you have proved the Parishes of this Nation Pergamus I will Consider of it I know no advantage I should have gotten if the word Reply Dr. B. Church had been permitted to stand instead of Parishes but rather disadvantage because a National Church is as liable if not more to exception nor can I imagine how this could have hidden the folly of my Argument its folly to pick a quarrell the Church is nothing els but the Parishes or if you will that is the Mother these the daughters the Minor proposition which you deny will appear evident enough by considering the Apostles meaning of Pillar and Ground of Truth and applying it to our Assemblies both which I will do in few words The House or Church of God is so call'd in respect of the profession and maintenance of the true Religion of God which it both supporteth as a Pillar and maketh it openly known to others as Magistrates use to hang and affix their Edicts and Proclamations on pillars or other places of strength and firmness and here consequently is declared the Office and duty of the Church in holding and publishing the Truth and defending it against all Errors Contradictions and Corruptions and whatsoever Societies do this it s written upon those Societies with a Sun beam that they are the true Churches of Christ Now it s notoriously known that the Articles of Religion agreed upon Anno 1562. are published and consented to by all the See the answer of the Elders of the several Churches of New England to the ninth Question p. 26. and Church Covenant p. 40. Ministers endowed in every Congregation of this Nation with the silent consent also of the People and subscription of the hands of the chief of them wherein they do acknowledge no rule of Faith or Manners but the holy Scriptures no divine worship but to God only no Mediation nor Salvation but in Christ only no Conversion by Mans free will but by Gods free grace no Justification but by Faith no perfection nor merit of works with all other necessary and saving truths upon which the Church is grounded and built and which also it holdeth forth and maintaineth This alone abundantly evinceth that the Parishes of this Nation are the Pillar and ground of Truth Besides these truths are daily in most Congregations faithfully opened and applyed and whatsoever is contrary thereunto on the right hand or left convincingly confuted our Parishes therefore keeping Gods Records faithfully are his Registers and consequently his true Churches Your declaiming against the inclinableness of our People to alter with their Governors might have been spared well knowing it was the practice of the Church of Israel to do so and the Churches of Galatia how soon were they removed from him that called them into the Grace of Christ unto another Gospell to the admiration of the Apostle Galat. 1. 6. And therefore it needs be no marvell if our people so easily change from one Church-Goverment to another which they may do without prejudice to fundamental verity which though the Galathians overthrew yet they remained true Churches If you read the Epistle of Christ to Pergamus understandingly and compare our Church with that you will find that we are not worse and wherein any in that Church were praise-worthy for doing or suffering you may find some in ours not short of them From our practice agreeing with the practice of the Primitive Arg. 7. Dr. B. Apostolical Churches Those Societies that continue stedfast in the Apostles doctrine and fellowship and breaking of bread and in Prayer are true Churches Acts 2. 42. but so do ours Ergo. I deny your Minor and the reason why we separate from you is upon Answ J. O. that ground you have added neither Scripture nor Reason to prove your Minor but have left it destitute of all proof you could hardly have brought a Scripture in all the Bible which in every thing both in doctrine and practice makes so directly against you as this that you have brought for you For first your doctrine is contrary secondly so is your practice for doctrine first after that Peter had preacht the Lord Christ to these men it working upon their hearts ver 37. they cryed out What shall we do the doctrine of the Apostle to them ver 38. is Repent and be Baptized and so they were ver 41. they were the same day added to the Church but you both Ministers and People go directly contrary first Baptize them at three or four dayes old and so make them members of your Church and perhaps twenty or forty years after preach Repentance just contrary to the Apostles doctrine and Gods examples 1 King 6. 7. Ephes 2. 21 22. 1 Pet. 2. 5. First you take into your house unhued stones and unsquared timber and twenty or forty years after fall to squaring them for the building Now for your practice in your fellowship the powerfull operation of the Gospell of Jesus Christ after it had workt them from the world and from themselves and one into another in the unity of the Spirit as one man it is said ver 44 45. and all that believed were together had all things common and sold their possessions c. And chap. 4. 32 34 35. and the multitude of believers were of one heart and one soul neither said any of them that ought that he possessed was
before his Incarnation you will find that our Congregations walk in the steps of Abraham of his Faith as in other things so particularly in this which I look you will storm at that they bring their Infant-Children to the sign of initiation appointed for the Church in the administration under which they live of the Faith of Moses and all the Prophets following their doctrine and pious practice too If you say most of our People deny the power of Religion I answer more of the Church of Israel did so 2. Look upon the Flock after Christ and you will find ours follow their steps both for doctrine and discipline the former none denyes and the substantials of the later we had even in the Bishops reign as Learned and Godly Mr. Hilderson hath made good against the Brownists and for that which is styled the Presbyteriâ—n Government if you read without prejudice the Jus divinum Regiminis Ecclesiastici you will find proof sufficient that That layes truest Claim to divine right and they that embrace and follow it walk in the steps of Christs Antient Apostolical flock Your common Allegation against this viz. That our Members are not Baptized Believers and therefore we walk not in the steps of the Antient Flock is notoriously false For first that our Members are Believers and many of them Real ones you will not deny Secondly and that they were all Baptized in their Infancy you will acknowledge at least they had water applyed to them in the Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost which is the right form of Baptism All that you do or can object is that they were not a fit subject of Baptism but our Saviours Words in his Commission according to your own interpretation of them confute you for Infants are a part of a discipled Nation yea they are Disciples Acts 15. 10. holy 1 Cor. 7. 14. and Church-members as learned Mr. Baxter hath proved by 27. Arguments and by denying Infants of Believers to be a fit subject of Baptism you deny as was lately shewed that Christ is come in the Flesh For if he be come certainly the Church is no loser but a gainer by his coming but by denying to Believers Infants this privilege the Church is a loser by his coming The tenth Argument shall be ad hominem and an additional to a branch of the second If your societies be true Churches then so are ours but the former is true Ergo the latter The consequence is only to be made good If all that 's good in your Churches you had it from ours both persons and things then the Consequence is certain Because nihil dat quod non babet but all that 's good in yours c. Two thing make persons good First Profession of the true Faith Secondly Correspondent piety the former of these you have all along yielded the latter likewise you have granted our best members have but the best of them you must acknowledge you have gained from us for as much as immediatly upon their departing us you Baptize them which argues they are fit matter for your Church 1. The Consequence of the first and also second Syllogism framed Answ J. O. to prove the fiâ—st is false For we might constitute our Churches of such matter as we gained from you and yet ours true and yours false because ours was constituted of such matter as appeared all good and yours was constituted of such as was for the greatest part bad For though it be most true that nothing gives that it hath not yet it is also as true that something may be gained from another that the loser retains not An Army of Souldiers may consist of honest men and wicked and the honest may be gained from the wicked and now upon your Consequence the wicked may prove themselves as good as the honest thus if all that 's good in you you had from us then if you be honest we are honest But all that 's good in you you had from us Ergo if you be honest we are honest If this Consequence be true viz. That if all that 's good in one Church they had in another then if one be true so is the other I will upon your own principles prove Rome a true Church Thus If you be true Churches Rome is true but the former is true Ergo. The Consequence is only to be made good if all that 's good in the Parishes of this Nation you had from Rome both persons and things then the Consequence is certain because Nihil daâ— quod non habet but all that 's good in yours c. The Consequence is your own the Minor is evident that you both persons and Ordinances came from Rome and thus you may see what your Logick helps you to Now let 's see upon this Consequence which way you can prove your selves true and Rome false and I am confident if you speak to the purpose you will answer for me against your self But if by these words had from ours you should say you mean not only to have a Companie out but to have them made good and fitted by those from whence they be taken if thu be your meaning then the Minor of your second Syllogism is contrarie to your self for sure you never fit men to say that your Ministrie is false your Church and Ordinances false and that ours is true and that they ought to Separate from you and come to us if not they were not fitted by you for us for thus they come to us Thus the Consequence of your Argument carries with it no Concluding force and the Conclusion falls to the ground for if all that 's good in us dia come from you as it doth not Yet we might be true and you false But secondly I deny your Minor viz. That all that 's good in us came from you Two things you say make persons good profession of the true Faith and Correspondant prety the former I yielded the latter granted I Answer I never granted any such thing I have granted and still do that there may be some in the Parochial Assemblies that may be godly People but that they be professors of the true Faith as it is fully banded out in the Gospell I have alwais denied So not yielding the former not granting the latter Our Baptizing them immediatly at their departure you say argues we judge them fit matter c. I answer It 's not true we Baptize them not Immediatly at their departing you but upon considerable time of triall as may be convenient to judge that their Conversations together with their principles in owning of ours and disowning of yours and all others so far as they be contrary to truth is reall Next you say for things the pure word and Sacraments rightly Dr. B. administred they had in our Church you will not I know object want of discipline because you teach that not to be necessarie to the being of a Church If it
for they have right to be an actual Congregation the Assumption is proved so abundantly by others that I need say no more till they be answered the sum is this we have the word ourselves and the blessing of the Covenant Ergo we are in Covenant with God I deny the Antecedent That the Parishes of this Nation generally Answer I. O. are Saints who have made a Covenant with God by sacrifice according to Ps 50. 50. is most abominably false the very naming of it is confutation sufficient he that justifies the wicked in their wickedness is abomination before God and who those are that have proved that the Parishes of this Nation generally are Saints that have made a Covenant with God by sacrifice I never yet saw attempted the truth is you have neither had the word as you ought to have had nor yet the Seals rightly administred neither yet the blessing of the Covenant and that this is so is so abundantly proved by others that I need say no more till they be answered Those Societies that answer the Kingdom of Heaven in those Parables of our Saviour where he declares what the visible Church Arg. 15. D. B. is they are true Churches for his scope is to teach us by those similitudes how to know the visible Church on earth but so do our Assemblies I will instance in two or three of those Parables first of the good seed sown in the field Mat. 13. 24. which because our Saviour says is meant of the world ver 38. you with many others deny the visible Church to be thereby intended but interpret it of the wider world But that Christ means his Church his Field scattered throughout the world appears evidently by the servants wondring at the tares ver 25. there had been no place for this wonder if that were his meaning for who can wonder to see the world full of wicked persons I argue thus Those Societies that have good seed sowen in them and mixture of good men and wicked hypocrites united in external Communion and Profession of Religion are true visible Churches but so have ours and so had the Apostolical Churches in Corinth for example A second is that of the Draw Net ver 47. Many in the Church not of the Church 1 Joâ— 2. 19. this is apparent that in the Church sincere and hypocrites are gathered to profession and external Communion and where they are so there is the Church to the same purpose is the Parable Mat. 22. of him that had not on a wedding Garment and that in Mat. 25. of the 10. Virgins Finally the Church is compared to a flower where there is Chaf mixt with Wheat that which is objected that the Church is a society of Saints called to be Saints is easily answered the denomination is taken from the better part i. e. all should be some are real Saints To the first of these Parables it is apparant it is not meant of the Answer I. O. Church at all but the world ver 38. Christ himself interprets it now whether it be believed of Christ or you Let all men Judge Whereas you say we interpret of the wider world I desire you in your next to shew if you can where Christ makes any distinction of wider or narrower world or whether the Church is not a people called out of the world visibly known from it if you cannot you do not well in making such distinctions where the Scripture makes known you say Christ means his Church his Field Answer That is as much as you should say his Church his World for Field is world ver 38. so you confound the Church and world together as one that hath alwaies been so distinctly separated nay this is also to confound your self who say the word Church signifies a Company called out of the world You say it appears by the servants wondring at the tares and if meant of the world there had been no place for this wonder Reply This it seems is that weighty reason that perswades your judgement contrary to Christs exposition of his own words There is never a such Word as Wonder in the Text they only askt the Question if he did not sow good seed in his Field and from whence came the tares and that they might well do from the consideration of that precious Gospel of Peace Christ cast into the world and that deadly enmity hatched against is when declared or if there could no reason be given of this their Question we must not therefore frame an exposition of our own contrary to Christs express determination for similitudes carry not an equal Parallel in all things but very many times That Christ means not the Church I thus evince That which makes void the Doctrin of Excommunication and makes Christ speak plain Contradiction is not the meaning of Christ in this Parable but to interpret it of the Church doth so Ergo. The Major is undeniable the Minor is manifest from the whole scope of the place for when the tares i. e. wicked Men ver 38. did visibly appear ver 26. the servants said wilt thou ver 28. that we go and gather them up the Master said nay ver 30. Let both grow till the Harvest which Harvest is the end of the world ver 39. now what can be more plainlyer laid down in the world then this that if it be meant of the Church no Min is to be cast out of it till the day of judgement though visibly wicked and how doth it make Christ speak plain contradition one while commanding ungodly persons to be cast out of his Church and an other while commending them to be kept in Let them alone c. thus the interpretation of this Scripture by you being false the Argument that you draw is from a groundless Construction of the words and so useless now for all the rest if they be to be understood of the Church it s such a mixture as is not severable till the day of judgement and so undeniable not discernable to the eys of Men seeing those that appear to be nought are to be separated before that time 1 Cor. 5. 2 5 7 11 13. 2 Cor. 6. 14 15 16 17. With many other places to the same purpose evident it is for that of the Draw net ver 49. to the end of the world was the time of severation and so the time of discerning and of him that had not the wedding Garment on it seems the Master of the Feast only discerned and for the ten Virgins the time of discerning the wise from the foolish was when the Bridegroom came I readily grant that in a true Gospel Church there may be many in it that are none of it many Hypocrites gathered to profession and external Communion c. but then they must be such as to the eys of the Church undiscernable for we see all along the Scripture by Christs own command Mat. 18. 15 16 17. If thy Brother