Where all in a sort ordaine and excommunicate We condemne you not for no true members of the Church what can be more order 〈◊〉 by your owne confusions then the 〈◊〉 Church at Amsterdam which yet you graunt but faulty If there be disproportion and dislocation of some parts is it no true humane bodie will you rise from the feast vnlesse the dishes be set on in your owne fashion Is it no City if there be mud-walles halfe-broken low Cottages vnequally built no state house But your order hath more essence then you can expresse and is the same which Politicians in their trade call 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 an incorporating into one common ciuill body by a voluntary vnion and that vnder a lawfull gouernment Our Church wants both wherein there is both constraint and false office Take your owne resemblance and your owne asking Say that some tyrant as Basilius of Russia shall forceably compell a certaine number of subiects into Mosco and shall hold them in by an awfull Garison forcing them to new lawes and Magistrates perhappes hard and bloody They yeeld and making the best of all liue together in a cheerefull communion with due commerce louing conuersation submissiue execution of the inioyned lawes In such case Whether is Mosco a true City or not Since your Doctor cytes Aristotle let it not irke him to learne of that Philosopher who can teach him that when Clisthenes had driuen out the Tyrants from Athens and set vp a new Gouernement and receiued many strangers and bondmen into the Tribes it was doubted not which of them were citizens but whither they were made Citizens vniustly If you should finde a company of true Christians in vtmost India would you stand vpon tearmes and inquire how they became so VVhiles they haue what is necessary for that heauenly profession what need your curiosity trouble it selfe with the meanes SECTION X. Constraint requisite YOu see then what an idle plea constraint is in the Constitution of a City the ground of all your exception But it is otherwise in Gods Citie the Church why then doth his Doctor shippe parallell these two And why may not euen constraint it selfe haue place in the lawfull constitution or reformation of a Church Did not Manisses after his comming home to God charge and commaund 〈◊〉 to serue the Lord God of Israel Did not worthy Iosiah when he had made a couenant before the Lord cause all that were found in Ierusalem and Beniamin to stand to it and compelled all that were found in Israel to serue the Lord their God What haue Queene Elizabeth or King Iames done more or what other Did not Asa vpon Obeds prophesie gather both Iudae and Beniamin and al the strangers from Ephraim Manasses and Simeon and enact with them that whosoeuer would not seeke the Lord God should be slaine What meanes this perueâ—snesse You that teach we may not stay Princes leasure to reforme will you not allow Princes to vrge others to reforme What crime is this that men were not suffered to be open Idolaters that they were forced to yeeld submission to Gods ordinances Euen your owne teach that Magistrates may compell infidelles to heare the doctrine of the Church and Papists you say elsewhere though too roughly are infidells But you say not to be members of the Church Gods people are of the willing sort True Neither did they compell them to this They were before entred into the visible Church by true Baptisme though miserably corrupted They were not now initiated but purged Your 〈◊〉 Doctor 〈◊〉 vs from Bernard that faith is to be 〈…〉 to bee compelled yet let him 〈◊〉 that the guests must bee compelled to come in though not to eat when they are come Compelled not by perswasions for these were the first inuitationâ— therfore by further meanes Though this conceit hath no place with vs where men were vrged not to receiue a new faith but to performe the old to abandon that wicked Idolatry which had defiled them and to entertaine but that truth which the very power of their Baptisme challenge that their hand But this was the old song of the Donatists Far bee it from our conscience to compell any man to the faith If God did not draw vs and by asweat violence bend our wils to his when should we follow him Either you haue not read or not cared for the practise of the auncient Church and Augustines resolution concerning the sharpe penalties imposed vpon the Donatists would God none of your kindred in his time with his excellent defences of these proceedings SECTION XI Constitution of the Church of England BVt tell vs then what should haue beene done The Gospell should haue beene euery where preached All conuerâ—s should haue been singled out and haue giâ—en a voluntary and particular confession of their faith and repentance I answere you The Gospell was long and worthily preached in the dayes of King Edward enough to yeeld both Martyres to the stake and professors to the succeeding times Were their holy Sermons their learned writings and their pretious blood which was no lesse vocall of no force Afterwards in the beginning of famous Queene Elizabeths reparation what confluence was there of zealous Confessors returning now from their late exile How painefully and Diuinely did they labour in this Vineyard of God How did they with their many holy Partners which had shrowded themselues during that storme of persecution in a dangerous secrecy spread themselues ouer this land and each-where drew flockes of hearers to them and with them Is all this nothing to their ingrateful posterity If you murmure that there was no more take heede least you forget there were so many for vs wee doe seriously blesse God for these and triumph in them All this premised now comes a Christian Edict from the State that euery man shall yeelde obedience to this truth wherein they had beene thus instructed It was performed by the most whose submission what was it but an actuall profession of their faith and repentance And since such was their face who dares iudge of their hearts More then this if euer can bee shewed absolutely necessary in such a state of the Church to the very Constitution and repaired Beeing thereof I do here vow neuer to take the Church of England for my mother We know and grieue to see how scornfully your whole Sect and amongst the rest your resolute Dr. turnes ouer these gratious entrances and proceedings of these two royall and blessed Reformers and whom should he finde to raise his scoffes vpon but that Saint-like Historian Master Foxe Now saies Master Foxe a new face of things began to appeare as it were in a Stage new Players comming in the olde thrust out Now saieth your Doctors Comment new Bishoppes came in as Players vpon the olde Stage of the Popish Church as if the Church were no whit altered
but the men Shall we say this is too much malice or too little wit and conscience Euen in the Lord Protectors daies that holy man reports that after the Scriptures restored and Masses abolished greater thinges followed these softer beginnings in the reformation of the Churches Learned and godly Diuines were called for from forraine parts a separation was made though not so much willing as wilfull of open and manifest aduersaries from Professors whether true or dissembled Commissioners were appointed to visite euery seuerall Diocesse Euery Bench of them had seuerall godly and learned Preachers to instruct the people in the truth and to disswade them from Idolatry and Superstition The Popes Supremacy not thrust but taught downe All wil-worshippe whatsoeuer oppugned by publique Sermons Images destroyed Pilgrimages forbidden the Sacraments inioyned to be reuerently and holily ministred Ecclesiastical persons reformed in life in doctrine Processions laide downe Presence and attendance vpon Gods word commanded the holy expending of Sabboth dayes appointed due preparation to Gods table called for set times of teaching inioyened to Bishoppes and other Ministers all shrâ—nes and Monuments of Idolatry required to be vtterly taken from publique and priuate houses All this before his Parliament By that all bloody lawes against Gods trueth were repealed zealous Preachers encouraged so as saith that worthy Historian God was much glorified and the people in many places greatly edified What neede I goe further then this first yeare Heare this and be ashamed and assure your selues that no man can euer read those holy Monuments of the Church but must needes spit at your separation After that sweete and hopefull Prince what his renowmed sister Queene Elizabeth did the present times doe speake and the future shall speake when all these Murmurers shall sleepe in the dust The publique disputations zealous Preachings restaurations of banished religion and men extirpations of Idolatry Christian lawes wise and holy proceedings and renewed couenants with God are still fresh in the memories of some and in the eares of all so as all the world wil iustly say you haue lost shame with truth in denying it Yea to fetch the matter yet further If the Reader shall looke backe to the daies of their Puissant Father King Henry the eight he cannot but acknowledge especially during the time of Queene Anne and before those sixe bloody Articles a true face of a Church though ouer-spreade with some morphue of corruptions and some commendable forwardnesse of Reformation for both the Popes Supremacy was abrogated the true doctrine of Iustification commonly taught confidence in Saints vntaught the vanity of Pardons declared worshippe of Images and Pilgrimages forbidden learned and godly Ministers required their absences and mis-demeaners inhibited the Scriptures translated publickly and priuately inioyned to be read and receiued the word of God commaunded to be sincerely and carefully preached and to all this holy Master Foxe addeth for my conclusion such a vigilant care was then in the King and his Councell how by all wayes and meanes to redresse Religion to reforme errours to correct corrupt customes to helpe ignorance and to reduce the mis-leadings of Christs Flocke drowned in blinde Popery superstitious customes and Idolatry to some better forme of Reformation whereunto he prouided not onely these Articles Precepts Iniunctions aboue specified to inform the rude people but also procured the Bishops to helpe forward the same cause of decayed doctrine with their diligent preaching and teaching of the people Goe now say that suddenly in one day by Queen Elizabeths trumpet or by the sound of a Bell in the name of Antichrist all were called to the Church Goe say with your Patriarch that wee erect Religions by Proclamations and Parliaments Vpon these premises I dare conclude and doubt not to maintaine against all Separatists in the world that England to goe no higher had in the daies of King Henry the eight a true visible Church of God and so by consequent their succeeding seede was by true Baptisme iustly admitted into the bosome therof and therefore that euen of them without any further profession Gods Church was truly constituted If you shall say that the following Idolatrie of some of them in Queene Maries daies excluded them Consider how hard it will be to prooue that Gods couenant with any people is presently disanulled by the sinnes of the most whether of ignorance or weakenesse and if they had herein renounced GOD yet that GOD also mutually renounced them To shut vppe your Constitution then There is no remedy Eyther you must goe forward to Anabaptisme or come backe to vs All your Rabbines caâ—not aunswere that charge of your rebaptized brother If wee bee a true Church you must returne If wee bee not as a false Church is no Church of GOD you must rebaptise If our Baptisme be good then is our constitution good Thus your owne Principles teach The outward parte of the true visible Church is a Vowe Promise Oathe or Couenant betwixt GOD and the Saints Now I aske Is this made by vs in Baptisme or noe If it be then we haue by your Confession for so much as is outwardly required a true visible Church so your separation is vniust If it be not then you must rebaptise for the first Baptisme is a nullity and if ours be not you were neuer thereby as yet entred into any visible Church SECTION XII The Aunswerers title AS for the title of Ring-leader wherewith I stiled this pamphleter if I haue giuen him too much honour in his Sect I am sory Perhappes I should haue put him pardon an homely but in this sense not vnusall word in the taile of this Traine Perhaps I should haue endorsed my Letter to Master Smith and his shadow So I perceiue he was Whatsoeuer whither he lead or follow God meetes with him If hee lead Behold I will come against them that prophesie false dreames saith the Lorde and doe tell them and cause my people to erre by their lies If he come behinde Thou shalt not follow a multitude in euill saith God If either or both or neither If he will goe alone Woe vnto the foolish Prophets saith the Lord which follow their owne spirits and haue seene nothing Howsoeuer your euill shall bee reproued by the light of Gods word Your coniâ—â—ction I cannot promise your reproofe I dare If therupon you shall finde grace to see and heale your errours we should with all brotherly humblenesse attend on foote vpon your returne on Horse-backe but if the sway of your mis-resolued conscience bee heady and vnresistable and your retyring hopelesse these not solide reasons these pretty pamphlets these formall flourishes shall one day be fearefull and materiall euidences against you before that awefull Iudge which hath already sayd That iudgements are prepared for the scorners and stripes for the backe of fooles SECTION XIII The Apostacie of the Church of England I professed
necessarie sequell ordered by God these are aboue humane power VVhat haue men to doe if not with things indifferent All necessary thinges are determined by God indifferent by men from God which are as so many particulars extracts from the generals of God These things saith learned Caluin are indifferent and in the power of the Church Either you must allow the Church this or nothing But these decrees are absolute what lawes can be without a commaund The law that ties not is no law No more then that saith Austen which tyes vs to euill But for all men and all times How for all For none I hope but our owne And why not for them but without exception and limitation Do not thus wrong our Church Our late Archbishopp if it were not piacular for you to reade ought of his could haue taught you in his publique writings these fiue limitations of inioyned ceremonies First that they be not against the word of God Secondly that iustification or remission of sinnes be not attributed to them Thirdly That the Church bee not troubled with their multitude Fourthly that they be not decreede as necessary and not to be changed And lastly that men be not so tyed to them but that by occasion they may be omitted so it be without offence and contempt you see our limits but your feare is in this last contrary to his He stands vpon offence in omitting you in vsing As if it were a iust offence to displease a beholder no offence to displease and violate authority VVhat law could euer be made to offend none Wise Cato might haue taught you this in Liuie that no lawe can bee commodious to all Those lippes which preserue knowledge must impart so much of it to their hearers as to preuent their offence Neither must Law-giuers euer fore-see what constructions will bee of their laws but what ought to be Those thinâ—â— which your consistory imposes may you keepe them if you list Is not the willing neglect of your owne Parlor-decrees punished with excommunication And now what is all this to infallibilitie The sacred Synod determines these indifferent rites for decency and comlinesse to be vsed of those whom it concernes therefore it arrogates to it selfe infallibilitie A conclusion fit for a separatist You stumble at the title of sacred euery straw lies in your way your Calepine could haue taught you â—hat houses Castles religious businesses olde age it selfe haue this stile giuen them And Virgill vittasque resoluit sacrati capitis no Epithete is more ordinary to Councelles and Synods The reason whereof may be fetched from that inscription of the Elibertine Synode of those nineteene Bishops is said VVhen the holy and religious Bishops were set How fewe Councels haue not had this Title To omit the late The holy Synod of Carthage vnder Anastasius The holy and peaceable Synode at Antioch The holy Synode of God and Apostolicall at Rome vnder Iulius The holy and great Sinode at Nice And not to be endlesse The holy Synod of Laodicea though but prouinciall VVhat doe these Idle exceptions argue but want of greater SECTION XXXIII Sinnes sold in our Courts SOme great men when they haue done ill outface their shame with enacting Lawes to make their sinnes lawfull While you thus charge our practise you bewray your owne Who hauing seperated from Gods Church deuise slaunders to colour your sinne Wee must bee shamefull that you may bee innocent You load our Ecclesiasticall consistories with a shameles reproach Farre bee it from vs to iustifie any mans personall sinnes yet it is safer sinning to the better part Fie on these odious comparisons sinnes as saleable as at Rome who knowes not that to be the Mart of all the world Periuries murders treasons are there bought sold when euer in ours The Popes Cofers can easily confute you alone What tell you vs of these let me tell you Mony is as fit an aduocate in a consistory as fauour or malice These some of yours haue complained of as bitterly as you of ours As if we liked the abuses in Courts as if corrupt executions of wholesome lawes must be imputed to the Church whose wrongs they are No lesse haynous nor more true is that which followeth True Elders not yours should bee indeede 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 This we call for as vehemently not so tumultuously as your selues That they should feede their flockes with word and doctrine we require more then you That Patrons present Bishoppes institute Arch-deacons induct some which are vnable we graunt and bewaile But that our Church-lawes iustifie them wee denie and you slaunder For our law if you know not requires that euery one to be admitted to the Ministery should vnderstand the Articles of Religion not onely as they are compendiously set downe in the Creede but as they are at large in our booke of Articles neither vnderstand them onely but be able to proue them sufficiently out of the scripture and that not in English onely but in Latine also This competency would proue him for knowledge 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 If this be not performed blame the persons cleare the law Profound Master Hooker telles you that both arguments from light of nature lawes and statutes of Scripture the Canons that are taken out of ancient Synodes the Decrees and constitutions of sincerest times the sentences of all Antiquity and in a word euery mans full consent and conscience is against ignorance in them that haue charge and cure of soules And in the same booke Did any thing more aggrauate the crime of Ieroboams Apostasie then that hee chose to haue his Clergie the scumme and refuse of his whole land Let no man spare to teâ—l it them they are not faithfull towards God that burden wilfully his Church with such swarmes of vnworthie creatures Neither is it long since a zealous and learned Sermon dedicated to our present Lord Arch-bishoppe by his owne Chaplaine hath no lesse taxed this abuse whether of insufficiency or negligence though with more discretion then can be expected from your malicious penne Learne henceforth not to diffuse crimes to the innocent For the rest your Baal in our dispensations for pluralities would thus pleade for himselfe First hee would bidde you learne of your Doctor to distinguish of sinnes sinnes saith he are either controuertible or manifest if controuertible or doubtfull men ought to bear one with anothers different iudgment if they doe not c. they sinne such is this if some be resolued others doubt and in whole volumes plead whether conuenience or necessity how could your charity compare these with sinnes euicted Secondly he would tell you that these dispensations are intended and directed not against the offence of God but the danger of humane lawes not securing from sinne but from losse But for both these points of Non-residence and insufficiency if you
Scriptures Surely you euen ioyne Scriptures as you separate your selues This is right as your Pastor to proue all members of the visible Church elect and pretious stones cytes 1. K. 7. 9. where is speech only of Salomons house in the Forest of Lebanon his Porch for his Throne his Hall his Pallace for Pharachs daughter and when hee comes to describe the office of his imaginary doctor thwacks fourteene Scriptures into the margent whereof not any one hath any iust colour of inference to his purpose and in his discourse of the power of the Church that hee might seeme to honour his margent with shew of textes hath repeated sixe places twise ouer in the space of sixe lines For these of yovrs you might obiect the first to the Cainites not to vs Cain was cast out worthily Doe wee either denie or vtterly forbeare this censure Take heed you follow him not in your voluntary exile to the land of Nod. The second you might obiect to those mungrell Christians that match with Turkes and Pagans There are sonnes of God that is members of the visible Church and daughters of men which are without the bounds meere Infidels it is sinne for those sonnes to yoake themselues with those daughters What is this to vs Noah was righteous the multitude disobedient Who denies it yet Noah separated not from that corrupted Church till the flood separated him from the earth but continued an auncient Preacher of righteousnesse euen to that peruerse and rebellious generation But it sufficeth you that Caine and the Giants were separated from the rest We yeelde it what will follow hence saue onely that notorious malefactors must be cast out and professed Heathen not let into the Chruch VVe hold and wish no lesse your places euince no more These before the law In Leuit. 20. 24. 26. God chose out Israel from other people This was Gods act not theirs a sequestring of his Israelites from the Gentiles not of Israel from it selfe yours is your owne and from men in all maine points of your owne profession But therefore Israel must be holy If any man denie holinesse to be required of euery Christian let him feele your Maranatha In Nehem. 9. 2. The Israelites separated themselues from the strangers which were Infidels whether in their marriage or deuotion Neither Gods seruice nor an Israelites bedde was for Heathens This was not the constituting of a new Church but reforming of the olde If therefore you can parallell vs with Pagans and your selues will bee Iewes this place fittes you Lastly what if there be an hatred betwixt the world Christs true Disciples Ioh. 17. 14. 16 what if Peter charged his auditors to saue themselues from the errours and practise of that froward generation whose handes were yet freshly imbrued with the blood of Christ Act. 2. 40. What if the same which Peter taught Paul practised in separating his followers from hearing some obstinate and blasphemous Iewes Act. 19. 9 VVhat if the Church of Corinth were Saints by calling 1. Cor. 1. 2 and therfore must be separated from the yoake of Infidels 2. Cor. 6. 17 Are these your patternes Are these fit matches for your brethren baptized in the same water and name professing euery point of the same true faith vsing for substance the same worshippe with you Hee that saith he is in the light and hateth his brother is in darkenesse 1. Ioh. 2. 9. SECTION VI. What separation is to be made by Churches in their planting or restauration BVT all these examples perhappes are not so much to warrant what you haue done as to condemne the Church of England for what shee hath not done for such a separation she neither hath made nor doth make but standes actually one with all that part of the world within the kingdome without separation Loe here the maine ground of this Schisme which your Proto-Martyr Barrow hammers vpon in euery page an ill constitution Thus he comments vpon your wordes For where such prophane confuse multitudes without any exception separation or choice were all of them from publique idolatrie at one instant receiued or rather compel'd to be members of the Church in some parish or other where they inhabited without any due calling to the faith by the preaching of the Gospell going before or orderly ioyning together in the faith there being no voluntarie or particular confession of their owne faith and dueties made or required of any and lastly no holy walking in the faith amongst them who can say that these Churches consisting of this people were euer rightly gathered or built according to the rule of Christs Testament In his words and yours I finde both a mis-collection and a wronge charge For the former the want of noting one poore distinction breedes all this confusion of doctrine and separation of men for there is one case of a new Church to be called from Heathenisme to Christianity another of a former Church to be reformed from errours to more sincere Christianity In the first of these is required indeede a solemne initiation by Baptisme and before that a voluntarie and particular confession of faith and therefore a cleare separation and exception of the Christian from the Infidell In the latter neither is new Baptisme lawfull though some of you belike of olde were in hand with a rebaptization which not then speeding succeedeth now to your shame nor a new voluntary and particular confession of Faith besides that in Baptisme though very commendable will euer be prooued simply necessary to the being of a Church so long as the erring parties doe actually renounce their doctrines and in open profession imbrace the truth and as generally in the publique confession so particularly vpon good occasion giue iust testimonies of their repentance This is our case we did not make a new Church but mended an old your Clifton is driuen to this hold by necessity of argument Otherwise he sees there is no auoiding of Anabaptisme Mended saith your Doctor and yet admitted the miscelline rabble of the prophane Say now that such separation were not made Let some few be holy and the more part prophane Shall the lewdnesse of some disanul Gods couenant with others This is your mercy Gods is more who still held Israel for his when but fewe held his pure seruice Let that diuine Psalmist teach you how full the Tents of Israel were of mutinous rebels in the desert yet the piller by day night forsooke them not and Moses was so farre from reiecting them that he would not indure God should reiect them to his owne aduantage Looke into the blacke censures and bitter complaints of all the Prophets wonder that they separated not Looke into the increased masse of corruptions in that declined Church whereof the blessed eyes of our Sauiour were witnesses and maruell at his silent and sociable incuriousnesse yea his charge of not separating yee knowe not of
Would God this point were throughly known and well weighed on all partes The neglect or ignorance whereof hath both bred and nursed your separation and driuen the weake and inconsiderate into strange extremities This say we for our selues in no more charity then truth But for you how dare you make this shamelesse Comparison Can your heart suffer your tong to say that there is no more diffrence betwixt Rome and vs then there is betwixt vs and you How many hundred errours how many damnable heresies haue we euinced with you in that so compounded Church shew vs but one mis-opinion in our Church that you can proue within the ken of the foundation Let not zeale make you impudent Your Doctor could say ingenuously sure that in the doctrines which she professeth she is farr better and purer then that Whore mother of Rome and your last Martyr yet better If you mean saith he by a Church as the most doe that publique profession whereby men do professe saluation to be had by the death and righteousnesse of Iesus Christ I am free from denying any Church of Christ to be in this land for I know the Doctrine touching the holy Trinity the natures and Offices of the Lord Iesus free iustification by him both the Sacraments c. published by her Maiesties authority and commanded by her lawes to be the Lords blessed and vndoubted truthes without the knowledge and profession whereof no saluation is to be had Thus he with some honesty though little sense If therfore your will do not stand in your light you may well see why we should thus forsake their Communion and yet not you ours Yet though their corruptions be incomparably more wee haue not dared to separate so farre from them as you haue done from vs for lesse Still wee holde them euen a visible Church but vnsound sicke dying sicke not of a consumption onely but of a leprosie or plague so is the Papacy to the Church diseases not more deadly then infectious If they be not rather in Sardies taking of whom the spirit of God saieth Thou hast a name that thou liuest but thou art dead and yet in the next words bidds them awake and strengthen the things which are ready to die And though our iudgement and practise haue forsaken their erroneous doctrines and seruice yet our charity if you take that former distinction hath not vtterly forsaken and condemned their persons This is not our coolenesse but equality your reprobation of vs for them hath not more zeale then headstrong vncharitablenesse SECTION XXIIII The Separation made by our holy Martyrs BVt how could you without blushing once name Cranmer Latimer and those other holy-Martyres which haue beene so oft obiected to the conuiction of your schisme Those Saints so forsooke the Romish Church as wee haue done died witnesses of Gods truth in that Church from which you are separated Liued Preached gouerned shed their blood in the communion of the Church of England which you disclaime and condemne as no Church of God as merely Antichristian Either of necessity they were no Martyrs yea no Christians or else your separations and censures of vs are wicked Chuse whether you will They were in the same case with vs wee are in the same case with them no difference but in time eyther their blood will be vpon your heads or your owne This Church had then the same constitution the same confusion the same worshippe the same Ministery the same gouernement which you brand with Antichristianisme swayed by the holy hands of these men of God condemne them or allow vs. For their separation They found many main errours of doctrine in the Church of Rome in the Papacy nothing but errours worth dying for shew vs one such in ours and wee will not onely approue your separation but imitate it SECTION XXV What separation England hath made THE Church of England dooth not now wash her hands of Babilonish abhominations but rather shewes they are cleane Would God they were no more foule with your slander then her owne Antichristianisme Here will bee found not pretences but proofes of our forsaking Babylon of your forsaking vs not so much as wel-coloured pretences You beginne to be ingenuous while you confesse a reformation in the Church of England not of some corruptions but many and those many not sleight but maine The gifts of aduersaries are thankelesse As Ierom said of his Ruffinus so may we of you that you wrong vs with praises This is no more praise then your next page giues to Antichrist himselfe Leaue out Many and though your commendations be more vncertaine we shall accept it so your indefinite proposition shall sound to vs as generall That we haue reformed the maine corruptions of the Romish Church None therefore remaine vpon vs but sleight and superficiall blemishes so you haue forsaken a Church of a foule skinne but of a sound heart for want of beauty not of truth But you say many not All that if you can picke a quarrell with one you might reiect all yet shewe vs that one maine and substantiall error which we haue not reformed and you doe not more embrace those truths with vs which we haue receiued then we will condemne that falshood which you haue reiected and imbrace the truth of that Separation which you haue practised The degrees whereby that strumpet of Babylon got on Horse-back you haue learned of vs who haue both learned and taught that as Christ came not abruptly into the world but with many presages and prefigurations The day was long dawning ere this Sunne arose so his aduersary that Antichrist breaks not suddenly vpon the Church but comes with much preparation and long expectance and as his rise so his fall must be graduall and leisurely Why say you then that the whole Church euery where must at once vtterly fall off from that Church where that man of sinne sitteth His fall depends on the fall of others or rather their rising from vnder him If neither of these must be sudden why is your hast But this must not be yet ought as there must be heresies yet there ought not It is one thing what God hath secretly decreede another what must be desired of vs If we could pull that Harlot from her seate and put her to Iezebels death it were happy Haue we not endeuoured it VVhat speake you of the hyest Towers and strongest pillers or tottering remainders of Babylon we shew you all her roofes bare her walles raced her vaults diged vp her monuments defaced her altars sacrificed to desolation Shortly al her buildings demolished not a stone vpon a stone saue in rude heapes to tell that here once was Babylon Your strife goes about to build againe that her tower of confusion God deuides your languages It wil be wel if yet you build not more then we haue reserued SECTION XXVI The maine grounds of separation YOV will now
worshipped if you were not Yet would you not seeme a superfluous creature speake in your selfe Might not God be intirely worshipped with pure and holy worship though there were no other bookes in the world but the Scripture If yea as who can denie it that knowes what the worshippe of God meaneth VVhat then doe the Fathers and Doctors and learned Interpreters To the fire with all those curious artes and volumes as your Predecessors called them Yea let me put you in minde that God was purely and perfectly worshipped by the Apostolicke Church before euer 〈…〉 Testament was written See therefore the idlenesse of your proofes God may be serued without a prescription of prayer but if all Reformed Churches in Christendome erre not better with it The word of God is perfect and admits no addition Cursed were we if we should add ought to it Cursed were that which should be added But cursed be they that take ought from it and dare say ye shall not pray thus OVR FATHER c. Doe we offer to make our prayers Canonicall do we obtrude them as parts of Gods word VVhy cauill you thus VVhy doth the same prayer written adde to the worde which spoken addeth not Because conceiued prayer is commanded not the other But first not your particular prayer Secondly without mention either of conception or memorie God commaunds vs to pray in spirit and with the heart These circumstances onely as they are deduced from his Generals so are ours But whence soeuer it please you to fetch our Booke of publique Prayer from Rome or Hell or to what Image soeuer you please to resemble it Let moderate spirits heare what the pretious Iewell of England saith of it VVee haue come as neere as we could to the Church of the Apostles c. neither onely haue we framed our doctrine but also our Sacraments and the forme of publique prayers according to their Rites and Institutions Let no Iewe now obiect Swines-flesh to vs Hee is no iudicious man that I may omit the mention of Cranmer Bucâ—r Ridley Taylor c. some of whose handes were in it all whose voices were for it with whome one Iewell will not ouer-weigh tenne thousand Separatists SECTION XXXVIII Marriage not made a Sacrament by the Church of England HOw did confirmation escape this number how did Ordination it was your ouer-sight I feare not your charity some things seeme and are not such is this your number of our Sacraments you wil needes haue vs take in marriage into this ranke why so wee doe not you confesse call it a Sacrament as the vulgar mis-interpreting Pauls Mysterium Ep. 5. why should we not if we so esteemed it wherefore serue names but to denotate the nature of things If we were not ashamed of the opinion wee could not be ashamed of the worde No more say you did Christ and his Apostles call Baptisme and the Supper Sacraments but we doe and you with vs See now whether this clause doe not confute your last where hath Christ euer said There are two Sacraments Yet you dare say so what is this but in your sense an addition to the word yea we say flatly there are but two yet we doe you say in truth create it a Sacrament how oft and how resolutely hath our Church maintained against Rome that none but Christ immediatly can create Sacraments If they had this aduantage against vs how could wee stand How wrongfull is this force to fasten an opinion vpon our Church which shee hath condemned But wherein stands this our creation It is true the partyes to bee married and their marriage represent Christ and his Church and their spirituall vnion Beware least you strike God through our sides what hath Gods spirit said either lesse or other then this Ephe. 5. 25. 26. 27. 32. Doth he not make Christ the husband the Church his spouse Doth he not from that sweet coniunction and the effects of it argue the deere respects that should bee in marriage Or what doth the Apostle allude elesewhere vnto when he saies as Moses of Eue we are flesh of Christs flesh and bone of his bone And how famous amongst the ancient is that resemblance of Eue taken out of Adams side sleeping to the Church taken out of Christs side sleeping on the Crosse Since marriage therefore so clearely represents this mistery and this vse is holy and sacred what error is it to say that mariage is consecrated to this mistery But what is the Element the Ring These things agree not you had before made the two parties to be the matter of this Sacrament What is the matter of the Sacrament but the Element If they be the matter they are the Element and so not the Ring both cannot be if you will make the two parties to bee but the receiuers how doth all the mistery lie in their representation Or if the Ring bee the Element then all the mistery must be in the Ring not in the parties Labour to bee more perfect ere you make any more newe Sacraments but this Ring is laide vpon the seruice-booke why not For readinesse not for holinesse Nay but it is hallowed you say by the booke If it be a Sacramentall Element it rather hallowes the booke then the booke it you are not mindful enough for this trade But what exorcismes are vsed in this hallowing Or who euer held it any other then a ciuill pledge of fidelitie Then follow the wordes of consecration I pray you what difference is there betwixt hallowing and consecration The Ring was hallowed before by the booke now it must be consecrated How idlely by what wordes In the name of the Father c. These words you know are spoken after the Ring is put on was it euer heard of that a Sacramentall Element was consecrated after it was applyed see how ill your slaunders are digested by you The place is the Church the time the Lords day the minister is the actor and is it not thus in all other reformed Churches aswell as ours Behod we are not alone al Churches in the world if this wil do it are guilty of three Sacraments Tell me would you not haue marriage solemnized publiquely You cannot mislike though your founder seemes to require nothing here but notice giuen to witnesses and then to bed Well if publique you account it withall a graue and weighty businesse therefore such as must be sanctified by publike prayer What place is fitter for publicke prayer then the Church Who is fitter to offer vp the publike prayer then the Minister who should rather ioyne the parties in marriage then the publique deputie of that God who solemnly ioyned the first couple who rather then he which in the name of God may best blesse them The prayers which accompany this solemnity are parts of Gods worshippe not the contract it selfe This is a mixt action therefore compounded of Ecclesiasticall and ciuill imposed on the Minister not vpon
Preach Catechize Write and Lorde thou knowest how manie of vs would doe more if we knew what more could be done for the information of thy people and remedy of this ignorance which this aduersary reproues vs to approue We doubt not but the seruice said in our Parish-Churches is as good a seruice to God as the extemporarie deuotions in your Parlors But it is an vnknowne deuotion you say Through whose fault The Readers or the Hearers or the matter Distinct reading you cannot denie to the most Parishes the matter is easie Praiers and English Scriptures if the hearers be regardlesse or in some things dull of conceite lay the fault from the seruice to the men All yours are free from ignorance free from wandering conceits we annoy you not some knowledge is no better then some ignorance and carelesnesse is no worse then mis-regard SECTION XLIII Penanâ—es inioyned in the Church of England COmming now to the Vaults of Popery I aske for their Penances and Purgatorie those Popish penances which presumptuous Confessors inioyned as satisfactorie and meritorious vpon their bold absolutions You send me to Sheet-penances and Purse-penances the one ceremonious corrections of shame inioyned and adioyned to publique confessions of vncleannes for the abasing of the offender and hate of the sinne such like as the auncient Church thought good to vse for this purpose Hence they were appointed as Tertullian speaketh in sackcloth and ashes to craue the prayers of the Church to besmeare their body with filthynesse to throwe themselues downe before Gods minister and Altar not to mention other more harde and perhaps no lesse ancient Rites and hence were those fiue stations of the Penitent whereby hee was at last receiued into the body of his wonted Communion The other a pecuniarie mulct imposed vpon some not all you foulely slaunder vs lesse hainous offences as a penaltie not as a penance I hope you denie not Sodomy Murther Robberie and which you would not theft it selfe is more deepely auenged But did euer any of ours vrge either sheet or purse as the remedy of Purgatory or inioyne them to auoide those infernall paines vnlesse we doe so our penances are not Popish and our answerer is idle SECTION XLIIII The practises of the Church of England concerning the Funerals of the dead YOur next accusation is more ingeniously malicious our Doctrine you graunt contrarie to Purgatorie but you will fetch it out of our practise that we may build that which we destroy Let vs therefore purge our selues from your Purgatorie Wee absolue men dying Excommunicate A rare practise and which yet I haue not liued to see but if Law-makers contemne rare occurrents surely accusers do not Once is too much of an euill Marke then Doe we absolue his Soule after the departure No what hath the body to doe with Purgatorie Yet for the body doe we by any absolution seeke to quit it from sinne Nothing lesse reason it selfe giues vs that it is vncapable either of sinne or pardon To lye vnburied or to be buried vnseemely is so much a punishment that the Heathens obiected it though vpon the hauocke and furie of Warre to the Christians as an argument of Gods neglect All that authoritie can do to the dead Rebell is to put his carkasse to shame and denie him the honour of seemely sepulture Thus doth the Church to those which will die in wilfull contempt Those Grecian Virgines that feared not death were yet restrained with the feare of shame after death it was a reall not imaginarie curse of Iezabel The dogges shall eate Iezabel Now the absolution as you call it by an vnproper but malicious name is nothing else but a libertie giuen by the Church vpon repentance signified of the fault of the late offender of all those externall rites of decent Funerall Death it selfe is capable of inequalitie and vnseemelinesse Suppose a iust Excommunication What reason is it that he which in his life and death would be as a Pagan should be as a Christian in his buriall What is any or all this to Purgatorie The next intimation of our Purgatorie is our Christian buriall in the place in the maner The place Holy ground the Church Church-yard c. The manner Ringing Singing Praying ouer the Corps Thus therefore you argue we burie the body in the Church or Church-yard c. therefore we hold a Purgatorie of the Soule a proofe not lesse strange then the opinion We doe neither scorne the carkasses of our friends as the old Troglodites nor with the olde Egyptians respect them more then when they were informed with a liuing soule But we keepe a meane course betwixt both vsing them as the remainders of dead men yet as dead Christians and as those which we hope one day to see glorious Wee haue learned to call no place holy in it selfe since the Temple but some more holy in their vse then others The old 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the Christians wherein their bodies slept in peace were not lesse esteemed of them then they are scorned of you Galienus thought he did them a great fauour and so they tooke it when he gaue them the liberty not only of their Churches but of their former burying-places In the same booke Eusebius commends Astyrius a noble Senatour for his care and cost of Marinus his buriall Of all these Rites of Funerall and choice of place we professe to hold with Augustine that they are onely the comforts of the liuing not helpes of the dead yet as Origen also teacheth vs we haue learned to honour a reasonable much more a Christian soule and to commit the instrument or case of it honourably to the graue All this might haue taught our answerer that wee make account of an heauen of a resurrection not of a Purgatory But we ring hallowed belles for the soule Do not those belles hange in hallowed Steeples too and do we not ring them with hallowed ropes What fancie is this If Papists were so fond of olde their folly and their belles for the most part are both out of date we call them soule-bels for that they signifie the departure of the soule not for that they helpe the passage of the soule This is mere boyes-play But wee pray over or for the dead Doe wee not sing to him also Pardon me I must needs tell you here is much spight and little wit To pray for the consummation of the glorie of all Gods elect What is it but Thy Kingdome come How vainely doe you seeke a knot in a rush while you cauil at so holy a petition Goe and learne how much better it is to call them our Brothers which are not in an harmelesse ouerweening and ouer-hoping of charity then to call them no brothers which are in a proud and censorious vncharitablenesse you cannot be content to tel an vntruth but you
like some Anti Lot to call for fire and Brimstone from heauen vpon your Zoar. SECTION XLIX The state of the Temple and of our Church in resemblance HOw you would haue behaued your selfe in the Temple to the mony-changers you will aunswer when we proue our Church to be Gods Temple built of that matter and in that form which God hath prescribed and here you send vs to 1. K. 5. 17. 2. Chr. 2. 8. Ignorantly as if Salomons Temple had stood till Christs time when neither the first nor second though called Beth Gnolam out lasted more then foure hundred yeares Or as if the Market had beene vnder the very roofe of that Temple whether Herods were built of the same matter with Salomons and in full corespondence to it I dispute not it was certainely dedicated to Gods seruice and that which you would hardly digest in a solemne anniuersary holy-day though not erected vpon the word of any Prophet But to let passe Allegories we must proue our selues the true Church of God Thus we doe it VVe are true Christians for we were baptized into the name of Christ we truely professe our continuance in the same faith into which we were baptized we ioyne together in the publique seruices of God we maintain euery point of the most ancient Creeds wee ouerthrowe not the foundation by any consequence therefore what euer is wanting to vs what euer is superfluous in spight of all the gates of Hell we are the true Church of God Let me aske you Were not the people of the Iewes in the Prophets and in Christs time a confused heape of dead and defiled and for I will vse your Tautologies polluted stones and of all rubbish of Bryers and brambles of the VVildernesse for the most part fitter for burning then building Can we be worse then they If wickednesse can defile a Church they shal iustifie vs did either those Prophets or our Sauiour rather shewe their obedience to God in departing from it then their valour in purging it you haue well imitated these heauenly patternes But what Can your charity finde nothing but rubbish Not one square stone not one liuing You will bee iudging till God iudge you if you take not heede of these courses you will so runn with the Hee goates that you wil stand with the Goates on the left hand That God whose place you haue vsurped giue you more wisedome and loue SECTION L. Whether Ministers should endure themselues silenced THe valour of our most zealous Reformers hath truely shewed it selfe in yeeldance As in Duels so here he is the most valiant that can so master himselfe as not to fight you according to the common opinion of Swaggerers blame the peaceable of cowardise and accuse them of suffering Behold a newe crime That they suffer themselues to be driuen out VVhat should they haue done Should they haue taken armes and crie the sword of God and Gedion You that wil not allow a Prince to compell subiects VVill you allow subiects to compell Princes God forbidde This were high Treason against Gods annointed what then Should they approue the Ceremonies by subscription by practise This you exclaime vppon as high Treason against the highest VVhat yet more Should they haue preached with their mouthes stop't This is it which you haue learned of your founder and through not many handes receiued and required with no lesse violence Clamour and tumult is that you desire still let our sinne be peaceable obedience yours fury and opposition Your headstrong conceit is that it is a sinne to be silenced Men must preach euen when they may not all times before you would haue wondred at this Paradoxe For how euer the Apostles which had not their calling from men would not be silenced by men yet wee finde that all their successours held that those hands which were layd vpon their heads might be laid vpon their mouthes looke into all Histories Those Constitutions which though not Apostolike yet were auncient in the seuenth Canon punish a Bishop or Presbiter that vpon pretence of Religion separates from his wife with deposition and if any Presbiter shall shift his charge without licence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and lastly inflicts the same penalty vpon fornication adulterie periury The great Nicene Councels take the same order with some misliked Bishops and Presbiters in diuers Canons Gaudentius in the Councell of Sardi takes it for graunted that a Bishop may by Bishops be deposed so the second Councell of Carthage Can. 13. so the fourth Councell of Carthage more then once imposes degradation so Leo the first threats to put some offending persons from the office of their Ministrie so that I may not be endlesse blessed Cyprian aduises Rogatianus a good olde Bishop which was abused by a malapert Deacon by the authority of his Chaire to right himselfe and either to depose or suspend the offender Leontius in Socrates is depriued of his Priesthood yea what Councell or Father giues not both rules and instances of this practise See how farre the auncient Church was from these tumultuous fancies No no M. R. we well finde it is doing that vndoes the Church not suffering If your fellowes could haue suffered more and done lesse the Church had bin happy As for our Church officers you may raile vpon them with a lawlesse safety there is a great ditch betwixt you and them else you might pay deare for this sinne of slandering them with their cheape peny-worths How idly doe you insult ouer those whom your Mony-changers haue driuen out of their Pulpits When you confesse after all your valour that they haue driuen you both out of Church and Country who can pitty a miserable insulter SECTION LI. Power of reforming abuses giuen to the Church and the issue of the neglect of it YOu that can graunt there will be corruptions in all other Churches will endure none in ours If England should haue either vnleauened Wafers or drunken Loue-feasts though no other blemishes she could not but be Babilon Wee enuie not your fauours These or whatsoeuer like enormities Christ hath giuen power vnto his Church to reforme but what if the Church neglect to vse it What if those euils which are brought in by humane frailty will not by diuine authority be purged out Now the errour by your doctrine is growne fundamentall so Christ is lost and the foundation raced if wee shall then assume against our friends to conuince our enemies The Church of Geneua hath been seriously dealt with in this corruption and disswaded by vehement importunity yet still persisteth How can you free them and charge vs see how we loue to be miserable with cōpany This power to purge out all corruptions Christ hath not giuen vs if he hath giuē it you you must first begin to purge out your selues you haue done it but still there remaine some would God wee had as much execution as power Our Church should be