Protestants Church not the true Church Againe by that saying Haereses ad originem reuocasse est refutasse and so considering Luthers first rancour against the Dominicans his disobedience and contempt of his former Superiours his vowe breaking and violent courses euen causing rebellion against the Emperour whom he reuiles and other Princes most shamefully surely such arrogant disobedience scisme and rebellions had no warrant nor vocation of God to plant his Church but of the Deuill to begin a scisme and a sect So likewise for Caluin to say nothing of all that D. Bolsecus brings against him I doe vrge onely what Master Hooker Doctor Bancroft and Sarauia doe proue against him for his vnquietnesse and ambition reuoluing the Common-wealth and so vniuâ—tly expelling and depriuing the Bishop of Geneua and other temporall Lords of their due obedience and ancient inheritance Moreouer I referre you to the stirres broiles sedition and murders which Knoxe and the Geneua Gospellers caused in Scotland against their lawfull Gouernours against their Queene and against our King euen in his Mothers belly Nor will I insist vpon the passions which first moued King Henrie violently to diuorce himselfe from his lawfull wife to fall out with the Pope his friend to marrie the Lady Anne Bullen and soone after to behead her to disinherite Queene Mary and enable Queene Elizabeth and presently to diâ—inherit Queene Elizabeth and to restore Queene Mary to hang Catholiques for traitors and to burne Protestants for heretiques to destroy Monasteries and to pill Churches were these fit beginnings for the Gospell of Christ I pray was this man a good head of Gods Church for my part I beseech our Lord blesse me from being a member of such a head or such a Church I come to France and Holland where you know by the Hugenots and Geuses all Caluinistes what ciuill wars they haue raised how much bloud they haue shed what rebellion rapine and desolations they haue occasioned principally for their new Religion founded in bloud like Draecos lawes But I would gladly know whether you can approue such bloudy broiles for Religion or no I know Protestants de facto doe iustifie the ciuill warres of France and Holland for good against their Kings but I could neuer vnderstand of them quo lure if the Hollanders be Rebels as they are why did we support themâ— if they be no rebels because they fight for the pretended liberty of their ancient priuiledges and for their new Religion we see it is an easie matter to pretend liberties and also why may not others as as well reuolt for their old Religion Or I beseech you why is that accounted treason against the State in Catholiques which is called reason of State in Protestants I reduce this argument to few words That Church which is founded and begun in maâ—ice disobedience passion bloud and rebellion cannot be the true Church but it is euident to the world that the Protestant Churches in Germanie Francâ— Holland Geneua c. were so founded and in Geneua and Holland are still continued in rebellion ergo they are not true Churches Furthermore where is not Succession both of true Pastors and of true Doctrine there is no true Church But among Protestants is no succession of true Pastors for I omit here to treate of Doctrine ergo no true Church I prooue the minor where is no consecration nor ordination of Bishops and Priests according to the due forme and right intention required necessarily by the Church and ancient Councels there is no succession of true Pastors but among Protestants the said due forme and right intention are not obserued ergo no succession of true Pastors The said due forme and right intention are not obserued among Protestants in France Holland nor Germanie where they haue no Bishops and where Lay men doe intermeddle in the making of their Ministers And for England whereas the Councels require the ordines minores of Subdeacon and the rest to goe before Priesthood your Ministers are made per saltum without euer being Subdeacons And whereas the Councels require three Bishops to assist at the consecration of a Bishop it is certaine that at the Nags-head in Cheap-side where consecration of your first Bishops was attempted but not effected whereabout I remember the controuersie you had with one there was but one Bishop and I am sure there was such a matter and although I know and haue seene the Records themselues that afterward there was a consecration of Doctor Parker at Lambeth and three Bishops named viz. Miles Couerdall of Exceter one Hodgeskin Suffragan of Bedford and another whose name I haue forgotten yet it is very doubtfull that Couerdall being made Bishop of Exceter in King Edwards time when all Councels and Church Canons were little obserued he was neuer himselfe Canonically consecrated and so if he were no Canonicall Bishop he could not make another Canonicall and the third vnnamed as I remember but am not sure was onely a Bishop Elect and not consecrated and so was not sufficient But hereof I am sure that they did consecrate Parker by vertue of a Breue from the Queene as Head of the Church who indeed being no true Head and a Woman I cannot see how they could make a true consecration grounded on her authoritie Furthermore making your Ministers you keepe not the right intention for neither doe the Orderer nor the Ordered giue nor receiue the Orders as a Sacrament nor with any intention of Sacrificing Also they want the matter and forme with which according to the Councels and Canons of the Church holy Orders should be giuen namely for the matter Priesthood is giuen by the deliuerie of the Patena with bread and of the Chalice with wine Deaconship by the deliuerie of the booke of the Gospels and Subdeaconship by the deliuerie of the Patena alone and of the Chaliâ—e emptie And in the substantiall forme of Priesthood you doe faile most of all which forme consists in these wordes Accipe potestatem offerendi sacrificium in Ecclesia pro viuis mortuis which are neither said noâ— done by you and therefore well may you bee called Ministers as also Lay men are but you are no Priests Wherefore I conclude wanting Subdeaconship wanting vndoubted Canonicall Bishops wanting right intention wanting matter and due forme and deriuing euen that you seeme to haue from a Woman the Head of your Church therefore you haue no true Pastors and consequently no true Church And so to conclude and not to wearie my selfe and you too much being resolued in my vnderstanding by these and many other Arguments that the Church of England was not the true Church but that the Church of Rome was and is the onely true Church because it alone is Ancient Catholique and Apostolique hauing Succession Vnitie and Visibilitie in all ages and places yet what agonies I passed with my will here I will ouer-passe Onely I cannot pretermit to tell you that at last hauing also mastered and
insist for the present but admitting it as true that wickednesse of mens persons doth not impeach the holinesse of their functions which they haue receiued of God nor make Gods ordinances as his Word and Sacraments of none effect But tell me for Gods loue Master Waddesworth is it likely that this Monarchie thus sought thus gotten thus kept thus exercised is of God Are these men that wholly forsaking the feeding of the flocke of God dreame of nothing now but Crowns and Scepterâ— serue to the Church to no vse in the world vnlesse it be to breake the ancient Canons and oppresse with their power all that shall but vtter a free word against their ambition and tyrannie are they I will not say with you good heads of Gods Church but members of it and not rather limbes of Satan Consider those Texts My Kingdome is not of this world Vos autem non sic Consider the charge which Saint Peter giues to his fellow Presbyters 1. Pet. 5. 2 3 4. Now I beseech our Lord deliuer his Church from this tyrannie and blesse you from being a member of such a Head CHAP. XI Of lacke of succession Bishops true Ordinations Ordâ—rs Priesthood I Come now to your motiue from succession Where I maruell first that leauing the succession of Doctrine which is farre more proper and intrinsecall to the Churches being you stand vpon that of Persons and Offices Yea and about them too immediately passe from that which is of Essence to the externall formalities in consecration and ordination according to the ancient Councels Haue you forgotten what you said right now that matters of ceremonie and gouernment are changeable Yea but in France Holland and Germanie they haue no Bishops First what if I should defend they haue because a Bishop and a Presbyter are all one as Saint Ierome maintaines and prooues out of holy Scripture and the vse of Antiquitie Of which iudgement as Medina confesseth are sundrie of the ancient Fathers both Greeke and Latineâ— Saint Ambrose Augustine Seduliuâ— Primasius Chrysostome Theodorit Oecumenius and Theophylact which point I haue largely treated of in another place against him that vndertooke Master Alablasters quarrell Besides those Churches in Germanie haue those whom they call Superintendents and generall Superintendents as out of Doctor Bancroft by the testimonie of Zanchius and sundrie Germane Diuines you might perceiue Yea and where these are not as in Geneua and the French Churches yet there are saith Zanchius â—sually certaine chiefe men that doe in a manner beare all the sway as if order it selfe and necessitie led them to this course And what are these but Bishops indeede vnlesse wee shall wrangle about names which for reason of State those Churches were to abstaine from As for that you say Lay men intermedâ—le there with the making of their Ministers if you meane the election of them they haue reason for anciently the people had alwayes a right therein as Saint Cyprian writes to the Churches of Leon and Astorga there in Spaine Plebs ipsa maxime habet potestatem vel eligendi dignos Sacerdotes vel indignos recusandi and in sundrie places of Italie this vsage doth continue to this day If yee meane it in Ordination yee are deceiued and wrong these Churches as Bellarmine himselfe will teach you lib. De Clâ—ricis cap. 3. For amongst the Lutherans and Caluinists also saith hee which haue taken away almost all Ecclesiasticall rites they onely lay on hands and make Pastors and Ministers who though they be not Pastors and Bishops indeede would be so accounted and called In England you misse first the lesser orders and say we are made Ministers per saltum as if all that are made Priests among you were Psalmists Sextens Readers Exâ—rcists Torch-bearers Subdeacons and Deacons before Remember I pray what the Master of the Sentences saith of Deaconship and Priesthood Hos solos primitiuâ— Ecclesia legitur habuisse de his solis praeceptum Apostoli habemus Hee meanes in the Epistles to Tâ—â—othy and Titus Againe Subdiaeonos vere Acolythos precedeâ—te tempore Ecclesia sibi constituit What and were the Primitiue and Apostolike Churches no true Churches or neede wee to bee ashamed to bee like them Besides those Councels that yee speake of it should seeme were of no great either antiquitie or authoritie when not onely Presbyters without passing through any order but Bishops without being so much as baptized were ordayned As Nectarius of Constantinople Synesius of Cyrene Ambrose of Millaine Constantine II. of Rome it selfe This therefore is a very sleight exception Your next is well worse touching the Ordination at the Nags-head where the Consecration of our first Bishops as you say was attempted but not effected It is certaine you say and you are sure there was such a matter although you know and haue seene the records themselues that afterward there was a Consecration of Doctor Parker at Lambeth Alas Master Wadesworth if you bee resolued to beleeue lies not onely against publike Acts and your owne eye-sight but against all probabilitie who can helpe it I had well hoped to haue found that ingenuitie in you that I might haue vsed your testimony vnto others of that side touching the vanitie of this fable as hauing shewed you the Copie of the record of Doctor Parkers consecration which I had procured to bee transcribed out of the Acts which your selfe also at your returne from London told mee you saw in a blacke Booke Now I perceiue by your perplexed writing and enterlining in this part of your Letter you would faine discharge your conscience and yet vphold this lie perhaps as loth to offend that side where you now are and therefore you haue deuised this temper that the one was attempted the other effected But it will not bee For first of all if that at the Nags-head were but attempted what is that to the purpose of our Ordinations which are not deriued from it but from the other which as you say was effected at Lambeth And are you sure there was such a matter How are you sure Were you present there in person or haue you heard it of those that were present Neither of both I suppose but if it were so that some bodie pretending to haue beene there present told you so much how are you sure that hee lied not in saying so much more when you haue it but at the third or fourth hand perhaps the thirtieth or fortieth But consider a little is it probable that men of that sort in an action of that importance and at the beginning of the Queenes reigne when especially it concerned both them and her to prouide that all things should bee done with reputation would bee so hastie and heedlesse as to take a Tauerne for a Church Why might they not haue gone to the next Church as well They thought to make the old Catholike Bishop drunken Thus the Wisbich and Framyngham Priests were wont to tell the tale Is it likely that
whole one Citie the world Hath it onely succession where to set aside the inquirie of Doctrine so manie Simoniacks and intruders haue ruled as about fiftie of your Popes together were by your owne mens confession Apostaticall rather then Apostolicall Or Vnitie where there haue beene thirtie Schismes and one of them which endured fiftie yeares long and at last grew into three heads as if they would share among them the triple Crowne And as for diffentions in Doctrine I remit you to Master Doctor Halls peace of Rome wherein hee scores aboue three hundred mentioned in Bellarmine alone aboue threescore in one onely head of Penance out of Nauarrus As to that addition in all ages and places I know not what to make of it nor wherâ—o to refer it Consider I beseech you with your wonted moderation what you say for sure vnlesse you were beguâ—led I had almost said bewitched you could neuer haue resolued to beleeue and professe that which all the world knowes to be as false I had welnigh said as God is true touching the extent of the Romish Church to all ages and places Concerning the agonies you passed I will say onely thus much if being resolued though erroniously that was truth you were withholden from professing it with worldly respects you did well to breake through them all But if besides these there were doubt of the contrarie as me thinks needes must be vnlesse you could satisfie your selfe touching those many and knowne exceptions against the Court of Rome which you could not be ignorant of take heede lest the rest insuing these agonies were not like Sampsons sleeping on Dalâ—lahs knees while the locks of his strength were shauen whereupon the Lord departing from him he was taken by the Philistims had his eyes put out and was made to grinde in the prison But I doe not despaire but your former resolutions shall grow againe And as I doe beleeue your religious asseueration that for very feare of damnation you forsooke vs which makes mee to haue the better hope and opinion of you for that I see you doe so seriously minde that which is the end of our whole life so I desire from my heart the good hope of saluation you haue in your present way may be as happie as your feare I am perswaded was causelesse For my part I call God to record against mine owne soule that both before my going into Italie and since I haue still endeauoured to finde and follow the truth in the points controuerted betweene vs without any earthly respect in the world Neither wanted I faire opportunitie had I seene it on that side easily and with hope of good entertainment to haue adioyned my selfe to the Church of Rome after your example But to vse your words as I shall answere at the dreadfull day of iudgement I neuer saw heard or read any thing which did conuince me nay which did not finally confirme me daily more and more in the perswasion that in these differences it rests on our part Wherein I haue not followed humane coniectures from forraine and outward things as by your leaue mee thinkes you doe in these your motiues whereby I protest to you in the sight of God I am also much comforted and assured in the possession of the truth but the vndoubted voice of God in his word which is more to my conscience then a thousand Topicall Arguments In regard whereof I am no lesse assured that if I should forsake it I should be renounced by our Sauiour before God and his Angels then in the holding it be acknowledged and saued which makes me resolue not onely for no hope if it were of 10000. worlds but by the gracious assistance of God without whom I know I am able to doe nothing for no terrour or torment euer to become a Papist You see what a large distance there is betweene vs in opinion Yet for my part I doe not take vpon me to foreiudge you or anie other that doth not with an euill minde and selfe condemning conscience onely to maintaine a faction differ from that which I am perswaded is the right I account we hold one and the same faith in our Lord and Sauiour Iesus Christ and by him in the blessed Trinitie To his iudgement we stand or fall Incomparably more and of more importance are those things wherein wee agree then those wherin we dissent Let vs follow therefore the things of peace and of mutuall edification If any be otherwise minded then he ought God shall reueale that also to him If any be weake or fallen God is able to raiâ—e him vp And of you good M. Waddesworth and the rest of my Masters and Brethren of that side one thing I would againe desire that according to the Aposiles profession of himselfe you would forbeare to be Lords ouer our Faith nor straightway condemne of heresie our ignorance or lacke of perswasion concerning such things as wee cannot perceiue to be founded in holy Scripture Enioy your owne opinions but make them not Articles of our Faith the analogie whereof is broken as well by addition as subtraction And this selfe same equitie we desire to find in positiue Lawes Orders and Ceremonies Wherein as euerie Church hath full right to prescribe that which is decent and to edification and to reforme abuse so those that are members of each are to follow what is enioyned till by the same authoritie it be reuersed And now to close vp this Account of yours whereof you would haue Doctor Hall and me to be as it were examiners and Auditors Whether it be perfect and allowable or no looke you to it I haue here told you mine opinion of it as directly plainely and freely as I can and as you required fully if not tediously I list not to contend with you about it Satisfie your owne conscience and our common Lord and Master and you shall easily satisfie me Once yet by my aduice review it and cast it ouer againe And if in the particulars you finde you haue taken manie nullities for signifying numbers manie smaller signifiers for greater correct the totall If you finde namely that out of desire of Vnitie and dislike of contention you haue apprehended our diuersities to be more then they are conceiued a necessitie of an externall infallible Iudge where there was none attributed the priuiledge of the Church properly called to that which is visible and mixt If you finde the reformed Churches more charitable the proper note of Chists sheepe The Roman faction more fraudulent and that by publike counsell and of politicke purpose in framing not onely all later writers but some ancient yea the holy Scriptures for their aduantage If you finde you haue mistaken the Protestants doctrine touching inuisibilitie your own also touching vniformitie in matters of Faith If you haue beene misinformed and too haâ—â—ie of credit touching the imputations laid to the beginners of reformation For as touching the want of Succession and the
lacke of Succession Bishops true Ordinations Orders Priesthood The fabulous Ordination at the Nags-head examined The Statute 8. Elizabeth Boners sleighting the first Parliament and Doctor Bancrofts answere to Master Alablaster The forme of Priesthood inquired of pag. 139. Chap. XII Of the Conclusion Master Wadesworths agonies and protestation The protestation and resolution of the Author and conceipt of Master Wadesworth and his accompt pag. 158. The Copies of certaine Letters which haue passed betweene Spaine and England in matter of RELIGION Salutem in Crucifiâ—o To the Worshipfull my good friend Mr. WILLIAM BEDEâ—â— c. Master Bedell MY very louing friend After the old plaine fashion I salute you heartily without any new fine complements or affected phrases And by my inquirie vnderstanding of this Bearer that after your being at 〈◊〉 you had passed to Conâ—tantinopâ—e and were returned to Saint 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 and with health I was exceeding glad thereof for I wish you well as to my selfe and hee telling mee further that to morrow God willing he was to depart from hence to imbarke for England and offering me to deliuer my Letters if I would write vnto you I could not omit by these hastie scribled lines to signifie vnto you the continuance of my sincere loue neuer to be blotted out of my brest if you kill it not with vnkindnesse like Master Ioseph Hall neither by distance of place nor successe of time nor difference of Religion For contrarie to the slanders raysed against all because of the offences committed by some wee are not taught by our Catholike Religion either to diminish our naturall obligation to our natiue Countrie or to alter our morall affection to our former friends And although for my change becomming Catholique I did expect of some Reuilers to be termed rather then prooued an Apostata yet I neuer looked for such termes from Master Hall whom I esteemed either my friend or a modester man whose flanting Epistle I haue not answered because I would not foile my hands with a Poeticall Rayler more full with froth of Wordes then substance of Matter and of whom according to his beginning I could not expect any sound Arguments but vaine Flourishes and so much I pray let him know from me if you please Vnto your selfe my good friend who doe vnderstand better then Master Hall what the Doctors in Schooles doe account Apostasie and how it is more and worse then Heresie I doe referre both him and my selfe whether I might not more probably call him Heretike then he terme me at the first dash Apostata but I would abstaine from such biting Satyres And if he or any other will needes fasten vpon me such bitter termes let them first prooue that in all points of faith I haue fallen totally from Christian Religion as did Iulian the Apostata For so is Apostasie described and differenced from Heresie Apostasia est error hâ—minis baptizati contrarius fidei Catholicae ex toto and Haeresis est error pertinax hominis baptizati contrarius â—idei Catholicae ex parte So that hee should haue shewed first my errors in matters of Faith not any error in other Questions but in decreed matters of Faith as Protestants vse to say necessarie vnto saluation Secondly that such errors were maintayned with obstinate pertinâ—cy and pertinacy is where such errors are defended against the consent and determination of the Catholik Church and also knowing that the whole Church teacheth the contrarie to such opinions yet will persist in them and yet further if there bee any doubt he must manifest vnto me which is the Catholique Church Thirdly to make it full Apostasie he should haue conuinced mee to haue swarued and back-slidden as you know the Greeke word signifies like Iulian renouncing his baptisme and forsaken totally all Christian Religion a horrible imputation though false nor so easily prooued as declaymed But I thanke God daily that I am become Catholique as all our Ancestors were till of late yeeres and as the most of Christendome still be at this present day with whom I had rather bee mis-called a Papist a Traytor an Apostata or Idolater or what he will then to remayne a Protestant with them still For in Protestant Religion I could neuer finde vniformitie of a settled faith and â—o no quietnesse of conscience especially for three or foure yeeres before my comming away although by reading studying praying and confeâ—ring I did most carefully and diligently labour to finde it among them But your contrarietie of Sects and opinions of 〈◊〉 Zwinglians Caluinists Protestants 〈◊〉 Cartwrightists and Brownists some of them damning each other many of them auouching their Positions to be matters of Faith for if they made them but Schoole questions of opinion onely they should not so much haue disquieted mee and all these being so contrarie yet euery one pretending Scriptures and arrogating the Holy Ghost in his fauor And aboue all which did most of all trouble me about the deciding of these and all other Controuersies which might arise I could not finde among all these Sects any certaine humane externall Iudge so infallibly to interpret Scriptures and by them and by the assistance of the Holy Ghost so vndoubtedly to define questions of Faith that I could assure my selfe and my soule This Iudge is infallible and to him thou oughtest in conscience to obey and yeeld thy vnderstanding in all his determinations of Faith for he cannot erre in those points And note that I speake now of an externall humane infallible Iudge For I know the Holy Ghost is the Diuine internall and principall Iudge and the Scriptures be the Law or Rule by which that humane externall Iudge must proceede But the Holy Scriptures being often the Matter of Controuersie and somtime questioned which be Scriptures and which bee not they alone of themselues cannot be Iudges and for the Holy Ghost likewise euery one pretending him to bee his Patron how should â— certainly know by whom he speaketh or not For to Men we must goe to learne and not to Angels nor to God himselfe immediately The Head of your Church was the Queene an excellent notable Prince but â— Woman not to speake much lesse to be Iudge in the Church and since a learned King like King Henrie the eight who was the first temporall Prince that euer made himselfe Ex Regio jure Head of the Church in spirâ—tuall matters a new strange Doctrine and therefore iustly condemned by Caluin for monstrous But suppose hee were such a Head yet you all confesse that hee may erre in matters of Faith And so you acknowledge may your Archbishops and Bishops and your whole Clergie in their Conuocation-house euen making Articles and Decrees yea though a Councell of all your Lutherans Calâ—â—â—nists Protestants c. of Germanie France Engiana c. were all ioyned together and should agree all which they neuer will doe to compound and determine the differences among themselues yet by your ordinarie Doctrine of
pray God forgiue him and make him a more humbler and meeker man And I for my part doe freely pardon all his foule tearmes against me And though in gratitude and iustice I am bound and so doe loue and respect you more then him for your greater curtesie to me and for your better value in your selfe yet euen him I can and doe and am bound to loue not onely as an enemy or a creature of God or as I doe you for an honest morall good discreete man but euen further and beyond that which you seeme to vnderstand that we cannot by our doctrine proceede in loue viz. as men hauing soules for whom our Sauiour hath died and so as possible members though indeede not actuall branches of his misticall body yea for such as may come to be ingrafted and beare fruite in him when we may be withered cut off or fallen away As for your serious Apologie and excuse for not answering my first Letters all this while I doe easily admit it and assure my selfe that all the circumstances impediments and occasions were such as you affirme nor did I expect nor vrge in my first nor second Letters any answere about Controuersies in Religion for I euer said we could say nothing of substance which before had not beene said but onely gaue you by Masters Hals occasion some few reasons of my faith wherein still I protest I had rather be deuout then be troubled to dispute not for feare or doubt but because I am so fully resolued in my selfe and do think it a very superfluous labour toties melius ab alijs actum agere So that I desired rather answere of curtesie then of controuersie which now by Master Astons meanes I receiued and doe much esteeme it and hartily thanke you for it Neuerthelesse when your Replie vnto my plaine and few reasons come I will for your sake both read them ouer and according to my little health lesse leisure and my poore abilitie which is least of all returne you some such short reioynder as it shall please almighty God to enable me being glad to perceiue by your last that you doe subscribe to our Intercession by our blessed Lady and other holy Saints which also I hope and wish you would fully extend to our Inuocation of Saints as Intercessors not as Redeemers for that were Blaspemie indeede and Idolatrie from which our sweete Sauiour deliuer vs and euer keepe you my good deere friend as I desire Madrid in haste 26. Octob. 1619. IAMES WADDESWORTH To the worshipfull my very good friend M. IAMES WADDESWORTH at Madrid deliuer this Salutem in Christo Iesu. YOur Letters of the 26. of October beloued Master Waddesworth were long vpon the way and came not to my hands till the 23. of May. In them I receiued your curteous acceptation of my excuse for my former silence censure of Doctor Hall Letter with the profession of your loue to me and him further then I accounted you could by your Doctrine proceede viz. as redeemed by Christ and possible members of his mysticall body Truely Sir I will not change words with you here abouts but I account still to be an honest man restraineth from that to be redeemed by our Sauiour since that is as large as humane nature this is giuen to fewer of whom a man may say as our Lord doth of one in the Gospell that they are not far from the Kingdome of God Howsoeuer I haue still my intention that wee out of our profession may loue you better then you can vs since it is more to be an actuall then a possible member of Christ and the Communion of Saints is a staighter bond then Redemption by Christ and possibilitie of being ingrafted and bearing fruite in his mysticall body And I would to Christ that of all other Controuersies this were the vehementest betweene vs which should loue each other most Wherein although I would striue and doe my best to haue the better yet see how equally I would contend For both I would acknowledge freely my selfe farre short of that which I may by my profession doe in this kinde and perswade my selfe better of your secret affection to vs then you may by your pofession expresse I will not easily beleeue that you can finde in your heart to count that man a Dogge and out of the Church and in state of damnation that stedfastly beleeueth in our Lord Iesus Christ and by him in the B. Trinitie that confesseth all the Doctrine of holy Scriptures the summe whereof is in the Creede that lastly with a charitable affection embraceth all that hold this faith throughout the world yea euen those that hate and persecute him to the death Wherein I forbeare for the present to enlarge because I speake more of it in my answere to your first Letters which Master Aston giues me hope that himselfe ere long will consigne into your hands Now by his direction I send you onely aduice of the receipt of your last with heartie thankes for them desirous not to runne further in arrerages with you in this office of writing This one thing I adde that where you write you are glad I doe subscribe to your intercession by the Saints wishing me fully to extend it to inuocation of Saints as Intercessors though not as Redeemers I should be very glad if I could as well content you in all other points as that one comming thus prepared in all controuersies with you and all men to yeelde whatsoeuer I may sauing the truth But as I conceiue it there is great oddes betweene these two To desire God to grant vs this or that good thing by the intercession of the Saints and To vse inuocation of themselues The one supposeth onely that the Saints in glory generally knowing the warfare of those on earth are carefull for them and omit not this act of neuer failing charitie to pray for them These praiers it hopes and desires of God may be helpefull to vs by the onely merit of our Lord Iesus Christ in the same sort as those of the Saints wheresoeuer on earth as 2 Cor. 1. 10. 11. Ephes. 6. 1. Philem. ver 22. The other that the Saints departed know our wants and states in particular and heare our prayers and by consequent know our hearts which is flatly contrarie to the Scriptures 2 Chron. 6. 30. Esay 63. 16. To omit now that you doe not onely desire them to pray for you but aske at their hands grace and glory trust in them vow to them sweare by them offer and receiue the sacrifice of the New Testament to their honour and glory and desire it may be accepted by their patronage Wherefore as I am glad to perceiue that you doe reuerse those blasphemies indeede Salua me Saluatrix Redime me Redemptrix and will not subscribe to those words of Bellarmine non erit absurdum si sancti viri redemptores nostri aliquo modo id est secundum aliquid non
best know For conferring I cannot yeeld you any testimonie notwithstanding our familiaritie and that we were not many miles asunder and you were also priuie that I had to doe in these controuersies with some of that side and saw some sample of the worke I come now to your motiues CHAP. II. Of the Contrarietie of Sects pretanded to bee amongst Reformers IN the front whereof is the commâ—on exception to our contrarâ—etie of sects and opinions c. First what are all these to the Church of England which followeth none but Christ Then if it be a fault of the reformed Churches that there is strife and diuision amongst them as who will iustifie it yet let it finde pardon if not for Corinths sake and the Primâ—tiue Churches what time Themistius was faine to excuse it with an Oration to Valens the Emperour yet euen for Romes where also you cannot but know that in very many and most important points Diuines hold one thing and Canonists another The French and lately also the Venetian Diuines resist to his face him that others say no man may bee so hardie as to aske Domine cur ita facus though he should draw with him innumerable soules to hell Your Spanish Prelates and Diuines would neuer acknowledge in the Councell of Trent the mysteries whereof are come out at last that Episcopall authoritie was deriued from him nor consent to that circumâ—enting clause Proponentibus Legatis c. and were strong that residence is de iure diuino howsoeuer they were ouerruled by the Italian faction whether they haue yet changed their mindes you can better tell then I. The old faction of the Thomists and Scotists is yet a foot as I perceiue by Rada his Controuersies In the beginning whereof the Censor of the Booke hath this sentence Qua propâ—er audiendi nullatonus sunt qui has Theologicas contentiones è medio omnino explâ—dendas arbitrantur There is another lately risen betweene the Dominicans and the Iesuites both in as great matters and pursued with as great vehemencie as those of the reformed Churches excepting onely a few fierie spirits of Saxony But in the Church of England as reformation was not brought in by any one man but by the ioynt consent of the whole so it is yet continued Lutherans Zuinglians Caluinists are not knowne among vs saue by hearesay Whereof it is some signe that your selfe doe not know them well as it seemes when you distinguish them from Protestants A name first giuen to the Princes and free Cities of Germany that sought reformation in the Diet at Spire Anno 1529. and from them passed to vs and other Countries where it was effected Who are then Protestants if the Lutherans and Zuinglians bee not For of both these there were in that Diet the Heluetians and parts adioyning of Germany hauing beene reformed at home first by the preaching of Zuinglius the Saxons and the remnant of Luther Who much about one time and without any correspondence began to oppose the Popes Indulgences and differed not for ought that euer I could yet vnderstand saue in the manner of Christs presence in the Eucharist Yea in that also taught vniformely that the bodie and bloud of our Sauiour are present not to the Elements but to the receiuer in the vse and without Transubstantiation As for those whom you call Caluinists and the rest Puritanes Cartwrightists and Brownists tell mee in good sooth Master Wadesworth how doe they differ from the reformed Churches in Heluetiâ— or the Church of England saue in the matter of gouernment onely See thâ—n all this contrarietie of Sects meetly well reconclled For Puritanes Cartwrightists and Brownists are in substance of Doctrine all one with Caluinists and these with Zwinglians who were of the first Protestants and differ litle or nothing from those whom yee call Lutherans Whereof this may bee a sensible proofe that commonly their Aduersaries and your selfe after call them by the same name the Protestant Churches in Germanie France Holland and Geneua And Pope Leo the tenth in his condemnatorie Bull and likewise Charles the fifth in his Imperiall Edict doe reflect wholly vpon Luther and his followers without any mention of the other at all To conclude this matter as it is vndoubtedly a signe of a good minde to dislike contention and diuersities of opinions and it may haue pardon to apprehend sometimes more then there is indeed like to the melancholike old man in the Comedie whose suspition makes him to multiply on this manner Qui mihi intromisisti in aedes quingentos coquos so to muster vp emptie names without any reall difference as Purâ—tans Cartwrightists Brownists to make differences in a few opinions about Gouernment or Sacraments Sects and contrarieties hath not the character of ingenuous and sincere dealing which from you Master Waddesworth I did and doe expect But some of these damne each other auouching their Positions to be matters of Faith not Schoole questions of opinion only Here indeed there is fault on all sides in this Age that we cannot be content with the bounds which the ancient Church hath set but euery priuate opinion must be straight-wayes an Article of Faith Euery decision of a Pope euery Decree of a Councell And then as men are easily enamored of their owne conceits and as Gerson wisely applies that of the Poet Qui amant sibi somnia fingunt as if the very marrow of Religion consisted in those points those that thinke otherwise are Heretikes and in state of damnation The Roman faction goes further to Fire and Faggot and all exquisite torments as if those things that make against the Papacie were more seuerely to bee punished then the blasphemies of the Iewes or Mahumetisme it selfe I doe not excuse the reformers of this bitternesse wherein after your departure out of England my namelesse Aduersarie that vnder-tooke Master Alablasters quarrell giuing me ouer in three of his demands ran riot in the first about this point of opposition among our selues and raked together all the vehement speeches of Luther and some of his followers against those whom they call the Sacramentaries Why who will vndertake to defend Lutbers speeches or all that falls from contentious pens But euen out of those testimonies which himselfe brings for the worst that hee could on the contrarie part it appeares this eagrenesse is not mutuall And in truth both we in England and the Helueâ—ians and French doe maintaine a brotherly affection towards them of Saxonie how spitefully soeuer some of them write of vs. And euen of those whom he calls Lutherans as I perceiued while I was at Norimberg the moderater sort are alike affected towards vs. But as touching the auouching our opinions to be matters of Faith which exception is common to you with him that which I should haue answered him if I had found in him any thing but spite and scorne I will say now to you Verily in some sort euen the least conclusions in Diuinitie
passage of holy Scripture For your conceit or desire that such a Iudge there should be to whom you might in conscience obey and yeeld your selfe because he could not errâ— doth not proue it You would know the Truth onely by the authoritie and sole pronouncing of the Iudges mouth A short and easie way which to most men is plausible because it spares the paines of studie and discourse To such especially as either out of weaknesse dare not trust their owne iudgement or account it shall haue the merit of humilitie to bee led by their Teachers But what now if God will haue you call no man your Father vpon earth If he will send you to his Word and after you haue receiued the Faith by the Churches testimonie out of the easie and plaine places thereof bid you search the Scriptures to finde the Truth in the remnant and pick it out by your owne industrie The rich man being in hell torments in whose wordes I doubt not but our Sauiour doth impersonate and represent the conceits of many men liuing in this world presumes that if one were sent from the dead his Kinsmen would hearken to him but he is remitted to Moses and the Prophets The Iewes as I perceiued by speech with some of them at Venice make it one of their motiues that our Lord Iesus is not the Christ. He should not say they haue come in such a fashion to leaue his owne Nation in doubt and suspence and scandalize so many thousands but so as all men might know him to be what he was Miserable men that will giue lawes to God Of which fault be you a ware also good Master Waddesworth and be content to take not to prescribe the meanes by which you will be brought vnto the knowledge of the Truth to vse what hee hath giuen not to coniecture and diuine what he must giue But God failes not his Church in such meanes as be necessarie Let vs therefore consider the necessitie of this Iudge Where I beseech you consider for I am sure you cannot but know it that all things necessary to saluation are euidently set downe in holy Scripture This both the Sciptures themselues doe teach and the Fathers auouch namely Saint Augustine and Saint Chrysostome and others I forbeare to set downe their words or further to confirme this Lemma which I proued at large against another aduersarie and shall at all times make good if it be questioned Besides these points there are a great manie other though not of such necessitie yet euidently laid downe also in the same Scriptures by occasion of them Manie by iust discourse may be cleared from these and the former If any thing yet remaine in suspence and vnknowne yea or if you will erred in so it be not wilfully and obstinately yet shall it be euer without perill of damnation to him that receiueth what the holy Ghost hath plainely deliuered What necessitie then of your imaginarie Iudge Yes for Vnitie is a goodly thing not onely in matters necessarie but vniuersally in all Controuersies must not bee endlesse But how comes it to passe then that your Iudge whosoeuer hee be doth not all this while decide the question touching the Conception of the Blessed Virgin that is betweene the Dominicans and Franciscans nor that betweene the Dominicans and Iesuites touching Grace and Free-will and all other the points that are controuerted in the Schooles to spare contention and time a precious commoditie among wise men and giue this honour to Diuinitie alone that in â—t all doubts should be reduced to certainties Or if it seeme no wisedome to bee hastie in deciding such questions wherein wittie and learned men are engaged least in stead of changing their opinions they should fall to challenge not onely the infallibilitie but which were more dangerous the authoritie of their Iudge If it be thought better to leaue scope to opinions opposition it selfe profitably seruing to the boulting out of the truth If vnitie in all things bee as it seemes despaired of by this your Gellius himselfe why are wee not content with vnitie in things necessary to saluation expresly set downe in holy Scripture and anciently thought to suffice reseruing infallibilitie as an honour proper to God speaking there Why should it not be thought to suffice that euery man hauing imbraced that necessarie truth which is the rule of our faith thereby trie the spirits whether they be of God or no. If hee meete with any that hath not that doctrine receiue him not to house nor salute him If consenting to that but otherwise infirme or erring yet charitably beare with him This for euery priuate man As for the publike order peace of the Church God hath giuen Pastors and Teachers that we should not bee carried about with euery winde of doctrine and amongst them appointed Bishops to command that men teach no other or forraine doctrine which was the end of Timothy his leauing at Ephesus 1. Tim. 1. 3. Then the Apostles themselues by their example haue commended to the Church the wholsome vse of Synodes to determine of such controuersies as cannot by the former meanes be composed but still by the holy Scriptures the Law or Rule as you say well by which all these Iudges must proceede Which if they doe not then may they be deceiued themselues and deceiue others as experience hath shewed yet neuer bee able to extinguish the truth To come to Antiquitie There is not any one thing belonging to Christian Religion if wee consider well of more importance then how the puritie of the whole may bee maintayned The Ancients that write of the rest of Christian Doctrine is it not a miracle had they knowne any such infallâ—ble Iudge in whose Oracle the securitie of all with the perpetuall tranquillitie of the Church is contayned they should say nothing of him There was neuer any Age wherein there haue not beene heresies and sects to which of them was it euer obiected that they had no infallible Iudge How soone would they haue fought to amend that defect if it had beene a currant doctrine in those times that the true Church cannot bee without such an Officer The Fathers that dealt with them why did they not lay aside all disputing and appeale them only to this Barre Vnlesse perhaps that were the let which Cardinall Bellarmine tells the Venetians hindered Saint Paul from appealing to Saint Peter lâ—st they should haue made their Aduersaries to laugh at them for their labour Well howsoeuer the Cardinall hath found out a merrie reason for Saint Paules appealing to Caesars iudgement not Peters lest hee should expose himselfe to the laughter of Pagans what shall wee say when the Fathers write professedly to instruct Catholike men of the forepleadings and aduantages to bee vsed against Heretikes euen without descending to triall by Scriptures or of some certaine generall and ordinarie way to discerne the Truth of the Catholike Faith from the
prophane nouelties of heresies Had they knowne of this infallible Iudge should wee not haue heard of him in this so proper a place and as it were in a cause belonging to his owne Court Nay doth not the writing it selfe of such bookes shew that this mattter was wholly vnknowne to Antiquitie For had the Church beene in possession of so easie and sure a Court to discouer and discard heresies they should not haue needed to taske themselues to finde out any other But the truth is infallibilitie is and euer hath beene accounted proper to Christs iudgement And as hath beene said all necessarie Truth to saluation hee hath deliuered vs in his Word That Word himselfe tells vs shall iudge at the last day Yea in all true decisions of Faith that Word euen now iudgeth Christ iudgeth the Apostle sits Iudge Christ speakes in the Apostle Thus Antiquitie Neither are they moued a whit with that obiection That the Scriptures are often the matter of Controuersies For in that case the remedie was easie which Saint Augustine shewes to haue recourse to the plaine places and manifest such as should need no interpreter for such there bee by which the other may bee cleered The same may be said if sometimes it be questioned which bee Scriptures which not I thinke it was neuer heard of in the Church that there was an externall infallible Iudge who could determine that question Arguments may be brought from the consent or dissent with other Scriptures from the attestation of Antiquitie and inherent signes of diuine authoritie or humane infirmitie but if the Auditor or Aduersarie yeeld not to these such parts of necessitie must needes be laid aside If all Scripture be denied which is as it were exceptio in iudicem ante litis contestationem Faith hath no place onely Reason remaines To which I thinke it will scarce seeme reasonable if you should say though all men are liers yet this Iudge is infallible and to him thou oughtest in conscience to obey and yeeld thy vnderstanding in all his detâ—rminations for hee cannot erre No not if all men in the world should say it Vnlesse you first set downe there is a God and stablish the authoritie of the bookes of holy Scripture as his voyce and thence shew if you can the warrant of this priuiledge Where you offiâ—me the Scriptures to be the law and the rule but alone of themselues cannot bee Iudges if you meane without being produced applied and heard yee say truth Yet Nicodemus spake not aâ—isse when hee demanded Doth our law iudge any man vnlesse it heare him first hee meant the same which Saint Paul when hee said of the high Priest thou sittest to iudge me according to the law and so doe we when wee say the same Neither doe wee send you to Angels or God himselfe immediately but speaking by his spirit in the Scriptures and as I haue right now said alledged and by discourse applied to the matters in question As for Princes since it pleased you to make an excursion to them if wee should make them infallible Iudge or giue them authoritie to decree in religion as they list as Gardiner did to King Henry the eight it might well bee condemned for monstrous as it was by Caluin As for the purpose Licere Regi interdicere populo vsum calicis in Coena Quarè Potestas 〈◊〉 summa est penes Regem quoth Gardiner This was to make the King as absolute a Tyrant in the Church as the Pope claimed to bee But that Princes which obey the truth haue commandement from God to command good things and forbid euill not onely in matters pertaining to humane societie but also the religion of God this is no new strange doctrine but Calums and ours and S. Augustines is so many words And this is all the Head-ship of the Church wee giue to Kings Whereof a Queene is as well capable as a King since it is an Act of authoritie not Ecclesiasticall Ministery proceeding from eminencie of power not of knowledge or holinesse Wherein not onely a learned King as ours is but a good old woman as Queene Elizabeth besides her Princely dignitie was may excell as your selues confesse your infallible Iudge himselfe But in power hee saith hee is aboue all which not to examine for the present in this power Princes are aboue all their subiects I trow and Saint Augustine saith plainly to command and forbid euen in the religion of God still according to Gods Word which is the touchstone of good and euill Neither was King Henry the eight the first Prince that exercised this power witnesse Dauid and Salomon and the rest of the Kings of Iudah before Christ And since that Kings were Christians the affaires of the Church haue depended vpon them and the greatest Synodes haue beene by their Decree as Socrates expresly saith Nor did King Henry claime any new thing in this Land but restored to the Crowne the ancient right thereof which sundry his predecessors had exercised as our Historians and Lawyers with one consent affirme The rest of your induction of Archbishops Bishops and whole Clergie in their Conuocation house and a Councell of all Lutherans Caluinists Protestants c. is but a needlesse pompe of words striuing to win by a forme of discourse that which gladly shall bee yeelded at the first demand They might all erre if they were as many as the sand on the sea shoare if they did not rightly apply the rule of holy Scriptures by which as you acknowledge the externall Iudge which you seeke must proceed As to your demand therefore how you should be sure when and wherein they did and did not erre where you should haue fixed your foot to forbeare to skirmish with your confirmation That though à posse ad esse non valet semper consequentia yet aliquando valet frustra dicitur potentia quae nunquam dueitur in actum To the former whereof I might tell you that without question nunquam valet and to the second that I can verie well allow that errandi potentia among Protestants be euer frustra This I say freely that if you come with this resolution to learne nothing by discourse or euidence of Scripture but only by the meere pronouncing of a humane externall Iudges mouth to whom you would yeeld your vnderstanding in all his determinations if as the Iesuites teach their Schollers you will wholly deny your owne iudgement and resolue that if this Iudge shall say that is blacke which appeares to your eyes white you will say it is blacke too you haue posed all the Protestants they cannot tell how to teach you infallibly Withall I must tell you thus much that this preparation of minde in a Scholler as you are in a Minister yea in a Christian that had but learned his Creed much more that had from a childe knowne the holy Scriptures that are able to make vs wise to saluation
through the faith that is in Christ Iesus were too great weakenesse and to vse the Apostles phrase childishnesse of vnderstanding But at length you heard a sound of harmony and consent that in the Catholike Church as in Noahs Arke was infallibilitie and possibilitie of saluation which occasioned you to seeke out and to enter into this Arke of Noah The sound of consent and infallibilitie is most pleasing and harmonious and vndoubtedly euer and onely to bee found in the Catholike Church to wit in the rule of Faith and in the holy Scriptures and such necessarie doctrine as perfectly concordeth with the same But as in song many discords doe passe in smaller notes without offence of the eares so should they in smaller matters of opinion in the Church without the offence of iudicious and charitable mindes Which yet I speake not to iustifie them nay I am verily of the minde that this is the thing that hath marred the Church musicke in both kindes that too much libertie is taken in descant to depart from the gound and as one saith notae nimium denigrantur The fault of the Italians though they thinke themselues the onely songsters in the world But to returne to you tell me I beseech you good Master Wadesworth was this the harmonie that transported you The Pope himselfe saith I cannot erre and to mee thou oughtest to haue recourse for decision of doubts in matters of faith And whereas this is not onely denied by Protestants but hath beene euer by the French and anciently I am sure by the Spanish lately by some Italian Diuines also vnlesse hee vse due meanes to finde the truth yea whereas it is the issue of all the Controuersies of this age in this snare you fastned your foot this was the Center that settled your conscience this the solid and firme foundation of your faith What and did it not moue you that some limit this infallibilitie of the Pope thus if hee enter Canonically if hee proceed aduisedly and maturely vsing that diligence that is fit to finde out the truth that is as you said before proceeding by the rule the Scriptures Albeit to the Fathers of the African Councell it seemed incredible as they write in their Synodall Epistle to P. Coelestine standing for appeales to himselfe that God can inspire the right iâ— tâ—iall to one denying it to many Bishops in a Councell Tell vs then who made you secure of these things or did you in truth neuer so much as make question of them but hearing this harmonious sound The Pope is the infallible Iudge you trusted the new Masters of that side Gregory de Valentia and Bellarmine that whether the Pope in defining doe vse diligence or no if hee doe define hee shall define infallibly Alas Sir if this were the rest you found for the soale of your foot instead of moueable water you fell vpon mire and puddle Or rather like to another Doue mentioned in Scripture columba seducta non habens cor by the most chaffie shrap that euer was set before the eyes of winged Fowle were brought to the doorefall Excuse my griefe mixed I confesse with some indignation but more loue to you though I thus write Many things there be in Poperie inconuenient and to my conceit weakely and vngroundedly affirmed to say no more but this is so absurd and palpably a flatterie as to omit to speake of you for my part I cannot bee perswaded that Paulus the fifth beleeues it himselfe For consider I pray what needed anciently the Christian Emperours and sometimes at the request of the Bishops of Rome themselues to haue gathered together so many Bishops from so diuers parts of the world to celebrate Councells if it had beene knowne and beleeued then that one mans sentence might haue cleered all controuersies and put all heresies to silence How durst sundrie holy and learned men haue reiected his decisions whether right or wrong is not now the question vnchristianly out of doubt on their parts if hee had beene then holden the infallible Oracle of our religion As when Polycrates with the Bishops of Asia and Irenaeus also yeelded not to Victor excommunicating the Easterne Churches about the celebration of Easter when Saint Cyprian with the first Councell of Carthage of eightie sixe Bishops had decreed that such as were baptized by heretickes should bee rebaptized and certified Stephanus of this Decree and he opposed it and would haue nothing innouated would Cyprian after that haue resisted and confuted Stephanus his letter had he knowne him for infallible And how doth hee confute him as erring writing impertinently contrarie to himselfe Yea let it bee obserued that hee doth not onely not account Stephanus infallible but not so much as a Iudge ouer any Bishop See the Vote of Cyprian and note those wordes Neque enim quisquam nostrum Episcopum se esse Episcoporum constituit an t tyrannico terrore ad obsequendi necessitatem collegas suos adigit quando habeat omnis Episcopus pro licentia libertatis potestatis suae arbitrium proprium tanquam iudicari ab alio non possit cum nec ipse possit alterum iâ—dicare Sed exspectemus vniuersi iudiciuÌ„ Domini nostri Iesu Christi qui vnus solus habet potestateÌ„ praeponendi in Ecclesiae suae gubernatione de actis nostro iudicandi A passage worthy to bee noted also for the cleering of the independence of Episcopall authoritie from the Pope which I now let passe Neither was Saint Cyprian herein alone Firmilianus and the Easterne Bishops resisted Stephanus no lesse as appeares by his Epistle which in the Romane edition of Manutiuâ— set forth by the command of Pius the fourth with the suruey of foure Cardinalls whereof one is now a Saint with exquisite diligence is wholly left out And Pamelius saith hee thinkes purposely for himselfe is of the minde that it had beene better it had neuer come forth But to returne to our purpose The Fathers of the Councell of Africke and Saint Augustine amongst them resist three Popes succeeding each other Zosimus Boniface and Coelestinus about appeales to Rome shall we thinke they would euer haue done it if they had knowne or imagined them to be the supreme and infallible Iudges in the Church I let passe the Schisme betweene the Greeke and the Latin Church which had not happened if this doctrine had beene anciently receiued Nay it is verie plaine in storie that the Bishop of Romes lifting vp himselfe to bee Vniuersall Bishop chiefly caused it To conclude neither Liberius nor Honorius to omit many other Bishops of Rome had euer beene taxed of heresie if this had anciently beene currant that the Pope is infallible I will not stand now to examine the shamefull defence that Bellaâ—mine makes for the latter of these bearing downe Fathers Councells Stories Popes themselues as all falsified or deoeiued herein Wherein because hee is learnedly refuted by Doctor Raynolds I insist not vpon it
Christ Heretickes and Sectaries accursed them drew them out of â—heir Synagogues scourged them cast them in prison compelled them to blaspheme as you doe now Protestants to adiuâ—e though in other cruelties I confesse you goe farre beyond them By like reason a Pagan in Saint Augustines time should rather haue made himselfe a Christian among the Donatists then with the Catholikes For the Catholikes granted the Donatists Baptisme to bee true accounâ—ed them Brethren The Donatists to the contrary renounced their Brother-hood and Baptisme both rebaptized such as fell to their side vsed these formes to their friends Saue thy Soule become a Christian like to those vsed by your Reconcilers at this â—ay Lastly consider if this ground of the testimony of our contraries for our part and their lack of ours for theirs be sure you haue iustified the cause of the Protestants in the maine question which is the better religion For whatsoeuer a Protestant holds as of Faith you cannot deny to bee good and Catholike nor any Christian man else For hee binds him to his Creed to the holy Scriptures and goes no further and in these he hath your testimony for him But hee denies many things which you beleeue and accounts them forreine yea repugnant to Faith as the Popes infallibilitie Transubstantiation Purgatory worshipping of Images inuocation of Saints In all these you speake onely for your selues in some of these you haue not vs onely but all other Christians your opposites to say nothing of the Iewes and Turkes whom I might as well chocke you withall as you doe the Protestants with Anabaptists So by this reason our profession is more safe and secure and questionlesse is more Catholike then yours Neither haue wee in this discourse the Argument onely as you see very appliable and fauourable to vs but which I would entreate you by the way to obserue the conclusion it selfe often granâ—ed by moderate and sober men of your owne side viz. that our course is in sundry things more safe then yours As in making no Image of God In trusting onely in the merits of Christ. In worshipping none but the Trinitie In directing our prayers to our Lord Iesus Christ alone In allowing Ministers to marry In diâ—ers other points also many of your side say the same with the Protestants and defend vs from the imputations which others of you lay vpon vs as is shewed in the Catholike Apologie by the Reuerend Bishop of Chester This to the proposition Let vs come to the Assumption where you mince too much the Protestants opinion touching the Church of Rome when you make them say It is peraduenture faultie in some things Nay without peraduenture they say It is corrupt in doctrine superstitious and Idolatrous in religion tyrannicall in gouernment defiled in manners from the crowne of the head to the soale of the foot no soundnes in it as the Prophet saith of another like it yet the vitall parts not perished readie to die yet not dead A true Church though neither the Catholike Church nor yet a sound member of the same That also is false in the assumption that the Puritans denie the Church of England to bee a true Church Vnlesse the Puritans and Brownists bee with you all one which you haue made diuers Sects aboue and then are you to blame as to multiply names whereof I haue told you before so now againe to confound them What is now the Conclusion It would be more safe and secure to become a Roman Catholike But the Proposition wil not inferre thus much simply but onely in this respect For Topicall arguments as you know hold onely caeteris paribus We must then inquire if there be no other intrinsecall arguments by which it may bee discerned whether cause bee the better whether pretence to the Church and Truth more iust more euident Whether it may bee warranted to returne to Babell because God hath some people there when as he commands those that are there to come out of it How safe it may bee willingly to ioyne with that part of the Church which is more corrupt in Doctrine and Manners when wee may continue with that which is reformed These points were to haue been scanned ere you concluded and executed as you did And such Arguments there want not Christ our Lord hath giuen vs amongst others two infallible Notes to know his Church My Sheepe saith hee heare my voice and againe By this shall all men knowe that yee are my Disciples if yee loue one another What shall wee stand vpon coniecturall Arguments from that which men say We are partiall to our selues malignant to our opposites Let Christ bee heard who bee his who not And for the hearing of his voice O that it might be the issue But I see you decline it Therefore I leaue it also for the present That other is that which now I stand vpon the badge of Christs sheepe Not a likelihood but a certaine token whereby euery man may know them By this saith he shall all men know that yee are my Disciples if yee haue charitie one towards another Thanks be to God This marke of our Sauiour is in vs which you with our Schismatikes and other enemies want As Salomon found the true Mother by her naturall affection that chose rather to yeeld to her Aduersaries plea clayming her childe then endure it should bee cut in peeces so may it soone bee found at this day whether is the right Mother Ours that saith giue her the liuing child and kill him not or yours that if shee may not haue it is content it bee killed rather then want of her will Alas saith ours euen of those that leaue her these be my children I haue borne them to Christ in Baptisme I haue nourished them as I could with mine owne breasts his Testaments I would haue brought them vp to mans estate as their free birth and parentage deserues Whether it bee their lightnesse or discontent or her enticing wordes and gay shewes they leaue me they haue found a better Mother Let them liue yet though in bondage I shall haue patience I permit the care of them to their Father I beseech him to keepe them that they doe none euill if they make their peace with him I am satisfied they haue not hurt me at all Nay but saith yours I sit alone as Queene and Mistris of Christs family hee that hath not me for his Mother cannot haue God for his Father Mine therefore are these either borne or adopted and if they will not bee mine they shall bee none So without expecting Christs sentence shee cuts in peeces with the temporall sword hangs burnes drawes those that shee perceiues inclined to leaue her or haue left her alreadie So shee kils with the spirituall sword those that subiect not to her yea thousands of soules that not onely haue no meanes so to doe but many which neuer so
to bee an euasion of Protestants THe first whereof is the dislike of the Protestants euasion as you call it by the inuisibilitie of their Church Giue mee leaue here to tell you plainly yee seeme to mee not to vnderstand the Protestants doctrine in this point Else yee would haue spared all that The Catholike Church must euer be visible as a Citie set on a hill otherwise how should shee teach her children conuert Pagans dispence Sacraments All this is yeelded with both hands The Congregations of which the Catholike Church doth consist are visible But the promise made to this Church of victory against the gates of hell the titles of the house of God the base and piller of Truth an allusion as I take it to the bases and pillers that held vp the veile or curtaines in the Tabernacle the body of Christ his Doue his vndefiled are not verified of this Church in the whole visible bulke of it but in those that are called according to Gods purpose giuen to Christ and kept by him to bee raised vp to life at the last day This doctrine is Saint Augustines in many placeâ— which it would bee too tedious to set downe at large In his third booke De doctrina Christiana among the rules of Tychonius there is one which hee corrects a little for the tearmes De Domini corpore bipertito which he saith ought not to haue beene called so for in truth that is not the Lords body which shal not be with him for euer but he should haue said of the Lords true body and mixt or true and fained or some such thing Because not onely for euer but euen now hypocrites are not to be said to be with him though they seeme to be in his Church Consider those resemblances taken out of the holy Scripture wherein that godly Father is frequent of chaffe and wheat in the Lords floore of good and bad fishes in the net of spots and light in the Moone Of the Church carnall and spirituall of the wicked multitudes of the Church yet not to be accounted in the Church Of the lilly and the thornes those that are marked which mourne for the sinnes of Gods people and the rest which perish which yet beare his Sacraments Consider the last Chapter of the booke De Vnitate Ecclesiae and that large Treatise which he hath of that matter Epist. 48. The place is long which deserues to bee read for the obiection of the Vniuersality of Arianisme like to that of Papisme in these last ages which Saint Augustine answeres in the fifth booke De Baptismo contra Donatistas cap. 27. That number of the iust who are called according to Gods purpose of whom it is said The Lord knoweth who are his is the inclosed garden the sealed fountaine the well of liuing waters the orchard with Apples c. The like hee hath l. 5. c. 3. 23. he concludes that because such are built vpon the Rocke as heare the Word of God and doe it and the rest vpon the sand now the Church is built vpon the Rocke all therefore that heare the Word of God and doe it not are out of question without the Church In the seuenth booke cap. 51. Quibus omnibus consideratisâ— Read and marke the whole Chapter Out of these and many more like places which I forbeare to mention it appeares that albeit the true Catholike Church is such as cannot bee hid yet considering that it consists of two sorts of people the one which is the greater part who doe not indeed properly belong to it the other the fewer truely and properly so called to whom all the glorious things spoken of the Church doe agree The face therefore of the mixt Church may be ouer-run with scandals as in all times almost The greatest number may sometime bee Idolaters as in the Kingdome of Israel vnder Achab. The principallest in authoritie may bee false teachers as the Priests and Prophets in Ieremies time the sonnes of pestilence may sit in Moses Chaire as they did in Christs time Yet still the Church is the ground and piller of Truth in the Elect Ipsa est praedestinata columna firmamentum veritatis The Sheepe heare not Seducers Iohn 10. 8. to wit finally and in any damnable point Thus was it before Christ thus since thus in the Church of England before yea and since it was reformed Thus in that of Rome it selfe at this day There is a distinction of Thomas of those that be in the Church which rightly â— interpreted agrees fully herewith There are some De Ecclesia numero tantum Some numero merito The former are such as haue onely fidem informem the latter formatam Now though the persons of such as be in the Church be visible yet the Faith and Charitie of men wee see not and to argue from the priuiledges of the Church numero merito to the Church numero tantum is a perpetuall but a palpable paraâ—ogisme of the Romish faction which is grosser yet when they argue to the Church representatiue and grossest of all when one man is made the Church and he as themselues grant may fall out a Deuill incarnate CHAP. IX Of lacke of Vniformitie in matters of Faith in all ages and places ANd in this selfe same Paralogisme you were beguiled with in the next point of Vniformitie and concord in matters of Faith The true Church yee say â—uer holds such Vniformitie It is vtterly false in the Visible and mixt Church both before Christ and since It is false in the Church of Rome it selfe whose new-coyned faith patched to the Creed by Pius the Fourth came in peece-meale out of priuate opinions and corrupt vsages nor euer was in any age vniformely holden or taught as matter of Faith euen in it as it is at this day So by your owne discourse it should be no true Church And taking matters of faith so largely as it seemes you doe in opposition to such things as bee cerâ—mâ—nies or of gouernment it is vntrue also of the Church of the Elect or properly so called For though the Faith in the principles thereof bee euer the same yet many conclusions of Faith haue sometimes lien vnsearched out and like some parts of the world vnknowne till by the industrie of Gods seruants occasioned also by the importunitie and opposition of Heretikes they were discouered Sundrie common errours also there haue beene which in succeeding ages haue beene cleered and reformed as the â—hiliastes That Angels haue bodies That children after they be baptized are to be communicated That Heretikes are to be rebaptized To the Assumption First the Protestants challenge not to themselues any Church as their owne which I must aduertise you of here because formerly also you doe vse this phrase The Church is Christs both the visible and inuisible Next taking matters of Faith for foundations or articles of Faith necessarie to saluation the Church of Christ hath in all ages had
there were scarce two or three bookes found that deliuered the same thing Quot libri tot varietates Ille deficit hic superabundat alius nihil omnino de eâre habet raro ant nunquam conueniunt saepe obscuri implicati librariorum vitio plerung mendosi And in truth in this your essentiall forme of Priesthood the old Pontificals before that which he set forth either had other words at the giuing of the Chalice and Paten as may seeme or wanted both that forme and the matter also together The Master of the Sentences declaring the manner of the Ordination of Priests and the reason why they haue the Chalice with wine and Paten with hosts giuen vnto them saith it is Vt per hoc sciant se accepisse potestatem placabiles Deo hostias offerendi Hugo in like manner Accipiunt Calicem cum vino Patenam cum hostia de mann Episcopi quatenus potestatem se accepisse cognoscant placabiles Deo hostias offerendi Stephanus Eduensis Episcopus in the same wordes Datur eis Calix cum vino Patena cum hostia in quo traditur ijs potestas ad offerendum Deo placabiles hostias So Iohannes Ianuensis in his Summe intituled Catholicon verbo Presbyter If yee ascend to the higher times of Rabanus Alcuinus Isidorus you shall finde that they mention no such matter of deliuering Chalice or Paten or wordes vsed at the deliuerie and no maruell for in the Canons of the fourth Councel of Carthage they found none Dionyâ—ius falsly called Areopagita whom I mentioned before setting downe the manner of ordaining in his time The Priest vpon both his knees before the Altar with the Bishopâ— right hand vpon his head is on this manner sanctified by his Consecrator with holy inuocations Here is all sâ—ue that he saith after he hath described that also which pertaines vnto the Deacon that euery one of them is signed with the crosse when the Bishop blesseth them and proclaimed and saluted by the Consecrator himselfe and euery one of that sacred Order that is present The Greeke Scholâ—ast very lâ—uely shewes the meaning and manner of this proclaiming Her saith The Ordayner pronounceth by name when hee signeth him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Such a man is consecrated from beinâ— Presbyter to be a Bishop in the name of the father c. and s. in the Presbyter and Deacon Clemens Romanus â— F. Turrian and the rest of the Romish â—action deceiue vs 〈…〉 be not deceiued themselues in attributing to him the 〈◊〉 bookes of the Apostolike Constitutions that 〈…〉 name cuts the matter yet more short and without 〈◊〉 crossing or proclaiming appoints the Bishop to lay his 〈◊〉 vpon him in the presence of the Presbyterie and the Deacorâ— vsing a Prayer which you may see at length in him 〈◊〉 the increase of the Church and of the number of them that by word and worke may edifie it for the partie elected vnto â—he â—â—fice of Priesthood that being filled with the operations of healings and word of Doctrine he may instruct Gods people with meeknesse and serue him sincerely with a pure minde and willing heart and performe holy seruices without spot for his people through his Christ to whom c. These last words which are in the Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Carolâ—â— Bouius Bishop of 〈◊〉 interprets sacrificia pro populo tuo immaculata 〈◊〉 Maruell that he added not tam pro 〈◊〉 quam pro defunctis Sure if Saint Paul Rom. 15. 16. had not added the word ' 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hee had sacrificed also This was the â—â—cient and Apostolike manner of ordination if the Author be worthy of credit But that ye may perceiue what tampering there hath beene to bring ordinations to the forme which the present Pontificall prescribes consider with me the words of Amalarius Bishop of Triers in his second Booke de Ecclesiast Officâ—s where in the office of the Subdeacon thus hee writes Miror quâ de re sumptus vsus in Ecclesia c. I maruell whence the vse was taken in our Church that very often the Subdeacon should reade the Lesson at Masse since this is not found committed vnto him by the Ministry giuen him in consecration nor by the Canonicall writings nor by his name And straight after Nam primaro tempore For in ancient time the Deacon read not the Gospell which was not yet written but after it was enacted by our Fathers that the Deacons should reade the Gospell they appointed also that the Subdeacon should reade the Epistle or Lesson It appeares then that in Amalarius time who liued with Charles the great and Lewes his Sonne that ridiculous foâ—me was not in the Pontificall where the Booke of the Epistles is giuen to the Subdeacons and power to reade them in the holy Church of God as well for the quicke as the dead The same Author comming to speake of Deacons telleth of their consecration by praier and imposition of hands confuteth that in the present Pontificall which he saith he found in a little Booke of holy Orders made he knowes not by what Author that the Bishop alone should lay hands on the Deacon At last he addes There is one Ministrie added to the Deacon viz. to reade the Gospell which he saith doth well befit him quia Minister est But of the deliuerie of the Booke of the Gospels with authoritie to reade the Gospell for the quicke and dead not one word In the next Chapter of Presbyters hee expounds their name and saith further hunc morem tenent Episcopi nostri Our Bishoppes haue this fashion they annoint the hands of Presbyters with oyle which ceremonie he declares touching imposition of hands vpon them he remitâ—â—s to that he said before in the Deacon Then he shewes out of Ambrose and Hierome that these are all one Order with Bishops and ought to gouerne the Church in common like Moses with the seuentie Elders as for deliuerie of Chalice and Wine or Paten and Host with power to sacrifice so well for the quicke as the dead he makes no mention Iudge you whether these were thought to be the matter and essentiall forme of Priesthood in his time Yet one Author more wil Iname in this matter not onely because hee is a famous Schooleman and one of Luthers first aduersaries and therefore ought to be of more account with that side but because he professeth the end of his writing to be circa Sacramentum ordinis cautos reddere ne pertinax quisquam aut leuis sit circa modum tradendi aut recipiendi ordines It is Cardinall Caietane in the second Tome of his Opuscula Tit. De modo tradendi seu recipiendi Ordines Reade the whole where these things I obserue for our present purpose 1. If all be gathered together which the Pontificals or which reason or authoritie hath deliuered the nature of all the rest of the orders except Priesthood onely will appeare very vncertaine 2. The
Scriptures by their owne free consent and desire Iudge by an instance or two that this matter may not be a meere skirmish of generalities Tertullian in his latter times whether as Saint Hierome writes through the enuie and reproach of the Roman Clergie or out of the too much admiring chastitie and fasting became a Montanist and wrote a Booke de Pudicitia blaming the reconciling of Adulterers and Fornicators In the very entrance almost thereof he hath these words Audio etiam edictum esse propositum quidem peremptorium Pontifex scil Maximus Episcopus Episcoporum dicit Ego maechis fornicationis delict a paenitentiâ functis dimitto Pamelius in his noate vpon this place writes thus Bene habet annotatu dignum quod etiamiam in haeresi constitutus aduersus Ecclesiaâ—â— scribens Pontificeâ— Romanum Episcopum Episcoporum nuncupet infra Cap. 13. bonum Pastorem benedictum Papum Cap. 21. Apostolicum Thus Pamelius and presently laâ—ches forth into the Priuiledges of the See of Rome and brings a number of testimonies for that forgery of Constantines donation The like note hee hath in the life of Tertullian where hee makes the Pope that set forth the former Edict to haue beene Zephyrinus quem saith hee Pontificem Maximum etiam iam haereticus Episcopum Episcoporum appellat Baronius also makes no small account of this place and saith The title of the Pope is here to bee noted And indeed prima facie as you say they haue reason But hee that shall well examine the whole web of Tertullians discourse shall finde that hee speakes by a most bitter and scornefull Ironie as Elias doth of Baal when hee saith hee is a God The word scilicet might haue taught them thus much Yea the title Pontifex Maximus which in those dayes and almost two ages after was a Pagan terme neuer attibuted to a Christian Bishop first laid downe by Gratian the Emperour as Baronius also notes in the yeere of our Lord 383. because it â—auoured of Heathenish superstition though it had beene as a title of Royalty vsed by the former Christian Emperours till that time This title I say might haue made them perceiue Tertullians meaning vnlesse the immoderate desire of exalting the Papacie did so blind their eyes that seeing they saw and yet perceiued not In the same character though with more mildnesse and moderation is the same title for the other part of it vsed by Saint Cyprian in his Vote in the Councell of Carthage Neque n. quisquam nostrum se esse Episcopum Episcoporum constituit aut tyrannico terrore ad obsequendi necessitatem Collegas suos adigit Bellarmine saith hee speakes here of those Bishops that were in the Councell of Carthage and that the Bishop of Rome is not included in that sentence who is indeed Bishop of Bishops What! and doth hee tyranniously inforce his Colleagues to obedience also For it is plaine that Cyprian ioynes these together the one as the presumptuous title the other as the iniurious act answering thereto which hee calls plaine tyranny And as plaine it is out of Firmilianus Epistle which I vouched before that Stephanus Bishop of Rome heard ill for his arrogancie and presuming vpon the place of his Bishopricke Peters Chaire to seuer himselfe from so many Churches and breake the bond of peace now with the Churches of the East in Asia now of the South in Africke And hee was in as ill conceit with Cyprian for his breaking good order and communicating with Basilides and Martialis iustly depriued in Spaine as Saint Cyprian was with him when he stiled him a false Christ and a false Apostle But the holy Martyr was of a more patient and calme spirit then to be moued with such reproaches nay hee tooke occasion as it should seeme thereby to write of patience From this mildnesse it was that hee so closely taxed the presumption of him that made himselfe Bishop of Bishops and by terror which what it was Firmilianus Epistle shewes threatning Excommunication would compell his Colleagues to his owne opinion None of vs saith he doth thus As the Apostle we preach not our selues we commend not our selues Wee are not as many that adulterate the Word of God c. Bellarmine takes the first kindly No maruell saith hee for this the Bishop of Romes due But they goe together hee must be content to take both or leaue both Such another place there is in Saint Augustines Epist. 86. the wordes are Petrâ—â— etiam inquit Apostolorum Capuâ— coeli 〈◊〉 Ecclesia fundamentum Where in the Margent the Diuines of Louaine the ouerseers of Plantines edition set this note Petrus Ecclesia fundamenâ—â—m Why might they not The words yee will say of the text But these words of the text be not Saint Augustines whose opinion is well enough knowne That it is Christ confessed by Peter that is the foundation of the Church but they are the words of an vndiscreet railer of the Citie of Rome against whom Saint Augustine in all that Epistle most vehemently inueighs This arrogant Author endeauours so to defend the Romane custome of fasting on the Saturday as hee reproaches all other Churches that vsed otherwise And that we may see with what Spirit he was led he brings the same text that is brought in Pope Siricius and Innocentius Epistles against the marriage of Clergie men Qui in carne sunt Deo placere non possunt and many other Scripâ—ures wrested and farre from the purpose at last comes the authoritie of Peter and his tradition very Pope-like alledged Peter he saith the head of the Apostles porter of heauen and foundation of the Church hauing ouercome Simon the Sorcâ—rer who was a figure of the Deuill not to be ouercome but by fasting thus taught the Romanes whose faith is famous in the whole world I remit you to Saint Augustines answere to this tradition This I note that where your Censors do race out of the Margents of former editions such notes as do expresse the very opinions of the ancients and in their owne wordes here they can allow and authorize such marginall notes as are directly contrary to their meaning Yea which are earnestly oppugned by them when they seeme to make for the authoritie of the Pope Good sir examine well this dealing and iudge if this bee not wresting the Fathers and applying them cleane from their purpose In fine you found your selfe you say euidently conuinced Perswaded I beleeue rather then conuinced Else if the force and euidence of the Arguments and not the pliablenesse of your minde were the cause of your yeelding mee thinkes they should worke like effect in others no lesse seriously seeking for truth and setting all worldly respects aside earnestly minding their owne saluation then your selfe Which I well know they do not neither those which hitherto haue beene examined nor those which yet remaine to be considered in the rereward CHAP. VIII Of the Inuisibilitie of the Church said
lesser Orders and Subdeaconship according to the Master of the Sentences were instituted by the Church 3. The Deacons instituted by the Apostles Act. 6. were not Deacons of the Altar but of the Tables Widdowes 4. In Deaconship there seemes to be no certain forme for according to the old Pontificals the laying of hands vpon the Deacon hath no certaine forme of words but that prayer Emitte qâ—aesumus in eos S. Sauctum which according to the new Pontificals is to be said after the imposition of hands For the giuing of the Booke of the Gospels hath indeede a forme of words but that impresseth not the Character for before any Gospell was written the Apostles ordained Deacons by imposition of hands 5. In the Subdeaconship also there is no Pontificall which hath not the matter without forme viz. the deliuery of the emptie Chalice c. These things with more which hee there sets downe he would haue to serue to the instruction of the learned touching the vncertaintie of this whole matter to â—each men to be wise to sobrietie that is euery man to be content with the accustomed Pontificall of the Church wherein he is ordained And if ought be omitted of those things which be added out of the new Pontificals as for example that the Booke of the Epistles was not giuen with those words Take authoritie to reade the Epistles as well for the quicke as the dead there is no neede of supplying this omission by a new ordination for such new additions make no new law Learne then of your owne Caietane that the new additions of deliuery of the Chalice with wine and Paten with Hosts and authoritie to offer sacrifice for the quick and dead make no new Law Learn to be content with the Pontificall of the Church wherein you were ordained Wherein first is verbatim all that which your Pontificals had well taken out of the holy words of our Sauiour Accipe Spiritum Sanctum quorum remisseris peccata remittuntur eis quorum retinueris retenta sunt Which me thinkes you should rather account to containe the essentiall forme of Priesthood then the former both because they are Christs owne words and ioyned with that ceremonie of laying on hands which anciently denominated this whole action and do expresse the worthiest and principallest part of your Commission which the Apostle cals the Ministry of reconciliation 2 Cor. 5. 18. 19. Then because this office is not onely deputed to consecrate the Lords body but also to preach baptize which in your Pontificall is wholly omitted in a larger and more conuenient forme is added out of Saint Paul 1 Cor. 4. 1. and be thou a faithfull dispenser of the word of God and of his holy Sacraments In the name of the Father c. As to that you adde that we offer no sacrifice for the quicke and dead and therefore well may be called Ministers as all lay men are but are no Priests I haue met with sundry that pull this roape as strongly the other way and affirme that because by the very forme of your ordination you are appointed Sacrificers for the quicke and dead well may ye be Masse-Priests as ye are called but Ministers of the New Testament after S. Pauls phrase ye are none For that office stands principally in preaching the word whereof in your ordination there is no word said And as little there is in Scripâ—ure of your sacrifice which makes Christ not to be a Priest after the order of Melchisedech c. with much more to this purpose Where my defence for your Ministrie hath beene this that the forme Receiue the holy Ghost whose sinnes ye remit they are remitted c. doth sufficiently comprehend the authoritie of preaching the Gospell Vse you the same equitie toward vs and tell those hot spirits among you that stand so much vpon formalities of words that to be a dispenser of the word of God and his holy Sacraments is all the dutie of Priesthood And to you I adde further that if you consider well the words of the Master of the Sentences which I vouched before how that which is consecrated of the Priest is called a Sacrifice and oblation because it is a memoriall and representation of the true sacrifice and holy offering made on the altar of the Crosse and ioyne there to that of the Apostle that by that one offering Christ hath perfected for euer them that are sanctified and as he saith in another place through that bloud of his Crosse reconciled vnto God all things whether in earth or in heauen you shall perceiue that we do offer sacrifice for the quick and dead remembring representing mystically offering that sole Sacrifice for the quicke and dead by the which all their fins are meritoriously expiated and desiring that by the same wee and all the Church may obtaine remission of sinnes and all other benefits of Christs passion To the Epilogue therefore of this your last motiue I say in short Sith we haue no neede of Subdeaconship more then the Churches in the Apostles times in truth those whom wee call Clerkes and Sextens performe what is necessarie in this behalfe Sith we haue Canonicall Bishops and lawfull succession Sith we neither want due intention to depute men to Ecclesiasticall functions nor matter or forme in giuing Priesthood deriuing from no man or woman the authoritie of ordination but from Christ the head of he Church yee haue alleadged no sufficient cause why we should not haue true Pastors and consequently a true Church in England CHAP. XII Of the Conclusion Master Waddesworths agonies and protestation c. YEt by these you say and many other arguments you were resolued in your vnderstanding to the contrary It may well be that your vnderstanding out of it owne heedlesse haste as that of our first Parents while it was at the perfectest was induced into errour by resoluing too soone out of seeming arguments and granting too forward assent For surely these which you haue mentioned could not conuince it if it would haue taken the paines to examine them throughly or had the patience to giue vnpartiall hearing to the motiues on the other side Buâ— as if you triumphed in your owne conquest and captiuitie you adde that which passeth yet all that hitherto you haue set downe viz. That the Church of Rome was and is the onely true Church because it alone is Ancient Catholike and Apostolike hauing succession vnitie and visibilitie in all ages and places Is it onely ancient To omit Hierusalem are not that of Antioch where the Disciples were first called Christians and Alexandria Ephesus Corinth and the rest mentioned in the Scriptures ancient also and of Antioch ancienter then Rome Is it Catholike and Apostolike onely Doe not these and manie more hold the Catholike faith receiued from the Apostles as well as the Church of Rome For that it should be the Vniuersall Church is all one as yee would say the part is the