Father Yes We have the Nicene Creed made by the Fathers of the Nicene Councel the Creed of Athanasius and that which is commonly call'd the Apostles Creed which ought throughly to be believed for they may be proved by most certain Warrants of holy Scripture as our Church declares Art 8. Child But do these Creeds contain the true Christian Catholick Faith Father Yes They contain all necessary points in Religion to be believ'd and have therefore been call'd the Key and Rule of Faith and the Church never knew any other Creed or confession of Faith for many hundred years Child Is this the Faith which I must profess and seal with my Blood if I be called to it Father Yes Hold fast the form of sound words which thou hast heard of me in Faith and Love which is in Christ Jesus 2 Tim. 1.13 Hence Athanasius thus concludes This is the Catholick Faith which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved Child But do not the Papists own these three Creeds as well as we Father They do own them as part of the Christian Faith though they little regard them but not as the whole Christian Faith Child Have they any other Creed or Profession of the Faith Father Yes The decrees of their Popes and the Canons of their late Popish Councels they hold to be Articles of Faith but especially they own and maintain the new Creed made by the Councel of Trent and confirmed by Pope Pius the fourth in the year 1564. Child Is it lawful Sir to make a new Creed Father No in no wise Though we saith St. Paul or an Angel from Heaven preach any other Gospel than that which we have preached unto you let him be accursed Gal. 1.8 Child I perceive by what you have spoken that notwithstanding the Papists talk of the old Religion they have made a new Creed and brought in a new Religion and that we are call'd Protestants because we protest against it Father You conclude very well and that you may be confirmed and strengthened in the true Faith I will shew you the Trent Creed and give you some short Observations upon it First I most firmly receive and embrace the Apostolical and Ecclesiastical Traditions and all other Customs and Constitutions of the same Church Child What be those Traditions and Customs of the Church Father Truly Child I know not neither do they themselves neither will they tell us what they be but when they can make no proof for a Doctrine out of the Word of God they say 't is a Tradition and yet this Christ condemns in the Jews Mark 7.7 9. In vain do they worship me teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of men full well ye reject the Commandments of God that you may keep your own Traditions Child If this be the first Article of their new Creed they begin well for as far as I can understand the real Sense and Import thereof is I believe in the Pope for whatsoever he says is a Tradition must be believ'd I pray Sir what is the second Father The second Article is I admit the holy Scripture in that sense which the holy Mother-Church hath held and holdeth to whom it belongs to judge of the true Sense and Interpretation of the holy Scriptures nor will I ever receive or interpret them but according to the unanimous Consent of the Fathers Child Here is a form of receiving the Scriptures but I perceive it must be in such Tenor and Sense as the Fathers admit that is I suppose the Pope and his Council But do they suffer the People to read the Scriptures Father No Child they dare not do it they know that would destroy Popery Root and Branch and yet Christ says Search the Scriptures for in them you think you have eternal Life and they are they which testifie of me John 5.39 And the Bereans are commended and said to be nobler than those in Thessalonica in that they received the word with all Readiness of mind and searched the Scriptures daily whether those things were so Acts 17.11 12. Child But since they keep the power of Interpretation methinks they might suffer People to read the Scriptures with their Glosses upon it Father No Child they dare not for they would quickly find their Glosses to be false the Scripture is so plain teaching us that no Prophecy of the Scripture is of any private Interpretation for the Prophecy came not in old time by the Will of Man but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost 2 Pet. 1.20 Child But are all things necessary to Salvation plainly to be found in Scripture Father Yes The testimony of the Lord is sure making wise the Simple Psal 19.8 9. Thy word is a Lamp unto my Feet and a Light unto my Path. Psal 119.108 From a child thou hast known the holy Scriptures which are able to make thee wise unto Salvation 2 Tim. 3.15 Child You have said enough to this I pray God set it home to my Heart I pray Sir proceed to the third Article Father The third Article is I profess also that there are 7 true and proper Sacraments of the new Law instituted by Jesus Christ our Lord for the Salvation of Mankind although all are not necessary to each one to wit Order Baptism Confirmation Eucharist Pennance extream Unction Matrimony and those all give Grace and of these Baptism Confirmation and Order cannot be reiterated without Sacriledge Child Did Jesus Christ appoint these Seven Sacraments Father No some of them had their being before and some after Christ's time only Baptism and the Eucharist or Lords Supper were instituted immediately by Christ received their Forms from him and flowed out of his wounded side whence it cometh that Water is the matter of Baptism and Bread and Wine of the Lords Supper Child I observe that they make Matrimony a Sacrament and say it gives Grace and yet I have heard that they will not suffer their Priests to marry Is that true Father Yes 'T is true they do so but 't is contrary to the word of God for we read 1 Tim. 3.2 A Bishop must be blameless the Husband of one Wife having his Children in Subjection Child I pray Sir what is the fourth Article Father I also receive and admit all received and approved Rights of the Catholick Church in the solemn Administrations of all the abovesaid Sacraments Child I pray Sir what are those approved Rights Father The vain Superstitions and idolatrous Rites of the Church of Rome in the Administration of the Sacraments are so many that they cannot easily be numbred However some of the Principal that are in my mind I shall discover to you In Baptism they conjure the Devil out of the Child they use many Crossings and besides Water they use Chrisme or Cream Salt and the Priests Spittle In the Eucharist after the words of Consecration they elevate the Hoast as they call it that is the consecrated Wafer
Dispensations to marry in the second Nay which is most abominable the tolerate Stewes publick Whore-houses even in Rome it self where every Whore pays a Julian penny to his Holiness weekly which amounts to yearly as some think 50000 l. Child What doth the eighth Commandment contain Thou shalt not steal Father It contains a charge of our own and our Neighbours Goods that we shew Love and faithfulness therein and not only not impeach or hinder but by all means preserve and further the the same Let him that stole steal no more but rather let him labour working with his hands the thing that is good that he may have to give him that needeth Eph. 4.28 Child How do the Papists keep this Command Father The Pope makes sale of all things of Heaven Hell and the Earth of Pardons for Sin and delivering men from Purgatory which is flat Robbery and most gross Deceit and Cozenage By the fulness of his Power the Pope can dispense in all things where there is cause and in many things where there is no cause under a greater price so saith the Tax of the Datary or the Book of Rates where the price of the Dispensations are set down to a farthing for the basest and vilest Sins that can be imagined Child What is the scope and end of the ninth Command Thou shalt not bear false Witness c Father The main scope and end at which God aimeth is the conservation of Truth amongst men and of our own and our Neighbours Fame and good Name Put away lying speak every man Truth with his Neighbour for we are Members one of another Eph. 4.25 Child How do the Papists keep this Command Father They allow Equivocation and mental Evasions and teach that 't is lawful to lye or deceive the Question of the Magistrate to conceal their Names and to tell a false one and to elude all Examinations Nay they hold it not onely lawful but meritorious to dye with Lyes in their Mouths if it be for the good of the Pope's Cause Child What is the summ and drift of the tenth Commandment Thou shalt not covet c Father Gods People must not harbour in their hearts any thoughts or motions against their Neighbours though the Will consent not but content themselves with that Estate that God allots them So St. Paul expounds it I had not known Lust except the Law had said Thou shalt not covet Rom. 7.7 Child How do the Papists expound this Command Father They hold Concupiscence before consent to be no sin If it be any they say 't is less than any venial sin which deserveth not damnation Whereupon they have forged a Limbus for such Infants as dye in Original Sin Thus they expound and keep the Commandments Child If this be their way of keeping the Commandments of God the Lord deliver me from them and their wayes and incline my heart to keep his Commandments according to the Exposition of the Protestant Doctors But are there no more Commandments but these Father No Child He declared unto you his Covenant which he commanded you to perform even ten Commandments and he wrote them upon two Tables of stone Deut. 4.13 Child Have the Papists any more Commandments Father Yes Child They have six Commands more which they call the six Commandments of the Church which are 1. To keep all Sundays and such Holy-days as are appointed by hearing Mass and forbearing to work 2. To keep Abstinence and Fasting-days appointed that is to fast Lent such Vigils as are commanded Ember-days Fridays and Saturdays 3. To confess our Sins once a Year to a Priest 4. To communicate once a year and that about the time of Easter 5. To pay Tiths 6. Not to solemnize Marriage at forbidden times and to these they say as well as unto Gods is promised the Reward of eternal Life Child Sir you have shewed me the true Doctrine of Faith which I must profess and in some measure opened and expounded the ten Commandements the Rule of Life I pray Sir proceed and instruct me how to perform the Duty of Prayer And first pray tell me Have we any Rule for Prayer Father Yes The Lord Christ hath given us a full one When you pray say Our Father c. Luc. 11.2 Wherein there is a Preface or Entrance into Prayer in the first words Our Father which art in Heaven A Body of Petitions containing the Matter of Prayer in the words following A Conclusion for confirmation and close of Prayer in the last words For thine is the Kingdom c. Child What doth the Preface put us in mind of Father Of him to whom we pray teaching us that God and God onely is to be prayed unto Call upon me in the day of trouble I will deliver thee and thou shalt glorifie me Psal 50.15 Child How many Petitions be there in the Lord's Prayer Father Six equally divided as it were into two Tables whereof three do concern God as doth the first Table of the Law three do concern our selves and our Neighbours as doth the second Table for in the three first we make Requests for those things that concern God's Majesty whose Glory and Service we are to prefer before our own Good In the three latter for those things that concern the Necessity of man and our own Welfare which we must must refer to the former Child What is the Conclusion of this Prayer Father For thine is the Kingdom c. The sum whereof is that we ground our Assurance of obtaining our Prayers in God from whom all things we ask do come and to whom therefore all Glory must return Child You have shewed me the Protestant Doctrine of Prayer do not the Papists teach the same Father No Child They teach that Prayers themselves ex opere operato or by the natural Work it self do prevail for it is not say they essential to Prayer for a man to think particularly of what he says nay 't is not necessary to the Essence of Prayer that he who prays should think of the speaking it self so that Prayers in the mouth of a Papist are like the words of a Charmer they prevail even when they are not understood so that with them Attention to or Devotion in Prayer is not necessary If the outward work be done the Church in satisfied and yet this the Lord Christ sharply reproves in the Jews This People draweth nigh unto me with their Mouths and honoureth me with their Lips but their Heart is far from me But in vain do they worship me c. Mat. 15.8.9 So that between the Protestants and the Papists the difference herein is this They pray with their Lips we with the Heart we pray with the Understanding they with the Voice we pray and they say Prayers Child Do they teach any other Doctrines concerning Prayers Father Yes They teach the People to pray with Beads and they have Books to direct them the Psalter of our Lady is 150 Ave-maries and at
with the same Medicine that some have cured sick persons with holy Bread and Oyl which indeed is the most likely of them all as being good Food and good Medicine And although not so much as a Chicken is now a days cured of the Pip by holy Water yet upon all Occasions they use it and the common people throw it upon Childrens Cradles and sick Cows horns and upon them that they think bewitched or blasted and if they recover by any means it is imputed to the Holy-water and so the Simplicity of Christian Religion the glory of our Dependance upon God and the Holiness and mystery of Sacraments are disordered and dishonour'd Thus the Israelites did when they fell to Idolatry they joyned themselves to Baal Peor and eat the Sacrifices of the dead thus they provoked him to anger with their Inventions Psal 106.28 29. and v. 39. Thus were they defiled with their own Works and went a whoring with their own Inventions Child Is there any thing else that they teach of the Sacraments to be observed Father Yes There is yet one great Instance more of their Irreligion they are taught to rely upon the Sacraments with so little of moral and vertuous Dispositions that the Efficacy of one is made to lessen the Necessity of the other and the Sacraments are taught to be so effectual by an inherent Vertue that they are not so much made the Instruments of Vertue as the Supplement not so much to encrease as to make amends for the want of Grace contrary to that of the Apostle Whosoever shall eat this Bread and drink this Cup of the Lord unworthily shall be guilty of the Body and Blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself and so let him eat of that Bread and drink of that Cup 1 Cor. 11.27 28. Child By this I suppose they do not think Repentance is needful to fit and prepare us for the Lords-table I pray Sir what do they teach concerning that Duty Father They are so loose in the Doctrine of Repentance that you cannot imagine it I shall therefore shew you what we and they teach concerning that Duty and conclude this Discourse Child I pray Sir first shew me then what we teach concerning Repentance Father Our Protestant Doctors teach that Repentance is an inward and true sorrow for Sin especially that we have offended so gracious a God and so loving a Father together with a settled purpose of Heart and a careful endeavour to leave all our Sins and to live a Christian Life according to all God's Commandments The Sacrifices of God are a broken Spirit a broken and a contrite Heart O God thou wilt not despise Ps 51.17 Child How is this Grace wrought in us Father 'T is wrought in us partly by the threatning of the Law and the fear of God's Judgments but especially increased by feeling the Fruit of Christ's Death whereby we have power to hate Sin and to leave it Child Wherein doth Repentance properly consist Father In a through changing of our purpose and desires from the Evil which God's word rebuketh in us to the good which it requireth of us Child Can men repent of themselves or when they list Father No for it is the gift of God given to them that are born again Child When is this Repentance to be practised Father The practice of Repentance ought to be a continual abhorring of Evil and cleaving unto that which is good for as much time as remains in the Flesh after our Confusion yet at some times there ought to be a more special practice and renewing thereof as after grievous Falls as we see in David Psal 51. and in fear of eminent Judgments which the Prophet calls for Amos 4.12 Because I will do this unto thee prepare to meet thy God O Israel Or when we should fit our selves to receive special mercies as when we come to the Lord's Table c. Child You have shewed me the Protestant Doctrine of Repentance I pray God give me Grace to practise it all the dayes of my life But I pray Sir Do not the Papists teach the same Father No. They teach 1. That a Sinner is not bound to repent of his Sin presently if it be done at any time 't is sufficient Some say he is bound by the Precept of the Church to repent upon the great Holidays others say once a year at Easter but 't is the general opinion that by the Law of God they are not tied to so much but only to repent in the danger or Article of Death from whence some conclude that to refuse to repent is but a venial sin but others say 't is none at all Child This seems to me to be intolerable Have they any more such Doctrines Father Alas Child this is but the beginning of sorrows The next thing therefore that I shall mention is their Doctrines concerning Contrition which when it is true and cordial for having sinn'd against God the the Church of Rome does not allow it to be of any value unless it be joyn'd with a desire to confess their Sins unto a Priest and this is decreed by the Councel of Trent contrary to all Scripture to the Doctrine of the Prophets Ezek. 18.30 Repent and turn your selves from all your Transgressions so Iniquity shall not be your ruine to the Doctrine of the Apostles Repent and be converted that your sins may be blotted out Act. 3.19 But this is not all for as Contrition without Confession will not reconcile us to God so Attrition as they call it proceeding from fear of damnation together with their Sacrament will do as well There is no necessity of Contrition at all If a man live a wicked life 60 or 80 years together yet if in the Article of his Death he be but a little sorrowful for his Sins and though this Sorrow hath in it no love of God but only a fear of Hell if the Priest absolves him he passes him instantly into a state of Salvation The Priest with two fingers and a thumb can do his work for him in a moment Child Vpon these terms it is a wonder that all wicked men in the World are not Papists where they may live so merrily and dye so securely but is not Confession a troublesome thing to them Father Not at all They have an easie formal way of it I confess unto Almighty God to the Blessed V. Mary to blessed Michael the Archangel to blessed Jo. Baptist to the Holy Apostles Peter and Paul to all the Saints and to you my Ghostly Father that I have very much sinned in thought word and deed through my fault through my fault through my exceeding great fault Therefore I beseech thee B. Virgin Mary blessed Michael the Archangel blessed John Baptist the holy Apostles Peter and Paul all the Saints and you my Ghostly Father to pray unto our Lord God for me And when they see Princes and Prelates Women and Boyes do the same every