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A85410 The controversie between episcopacy and presbytery stated and discussed, by way of letters, at the desire of a person of quality and learning. / By J. Gailhard, A.M. & D. Gailhard, J. (Jean) 1660 (1660) Wing G119; Thomason E1083_3; ESTC R202264 41,795 51

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different from the Minister as to the office so he is 〈…〉 kind and order of persons for we see it is 〈◊〉 amongst the Laymen the word Lay is in opposition to Pasto●s Deacons and Widows 〈…〉 of the T●●e of Le●● but selected from the people as you 〈◊〉 Act. 6.3 From this it is as clear as t●● day that there are R●linglay-Elders in the Church the stren●th of this the adversaries know very well wherefore they are forced to make a 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 ●ay for they would have this to be as a Precept unto all men that are in power as civil Magistrates as well as in Church to rule with diligence but how poo● a shut this is it appears from the words of the Apostl● for ver 5. he speaks of the Church by him called the bo●y of Chri●t and Scriptures make alwayes a distinction and difference between the civil and Ecclesiastical powers and offices making no con●●●●n between them besides that in the time that this Epistle was w●●tten by Saint Paul to the Romans there being amongst them no Ch●istian Magistrate he could not speak this to a civil Magistrate but to them that were joyned to the Pastor as assisting in the Gove●nment of the Church This same matter is handled more at large 1 Cor. 1● By the same Apostle who hath spoken to this Subject more then any of all other holy Writers so that minding the Discipline as the Doctrine of the Church he is in several places very clear upon this point so in this Chap. vers 28. he speaks of Governments what we must understand hereby it will be sai● a little below for introduction into it it is to be observed that the Apostle in this Chap. doth speak of spiritual gifts vers 2. whi●h gifts are in the Church vers 28. and thereupon they are to be lookt upon as excellencies wherewith God hath graciously adorned his Church all which are reduced under these three kinds First Gifts vers 4. expressed vers 8. Secondly Operations affirmed vers 6. described vers 9 10. Thirdly Administrations vers 5. enumerated vers 28. Between all which he maketh a difference and sheweth a diversity between them the two first being not to our present purpose we omit to come to the third that is Administration wherein several are expressed and all easie to be understood only this I may observe that though in some English Translation I find helps of Governments or in Governments by others as if one and the same office was designed Government being the subject and helps the adjunct in which translation though I find nothing contrary to both yet because in the O●iginal I find 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I take it to be two distinct and several functions and by Helps Interpreters understand the Deacons and widows spoken Rom. 12. And by Governments we understand Presbyters that rule and govern the Church But afore we lay down the grounds of this which is the Judgement of Martyr Calvin Be●● and other Reverend Divines upon the place we must answer an objection that may be made Whether any of these Offices have ceased and whether this of Government is amongst them To which I say At first some Offices were necessary for the planting and propagating of the Church and confirmation of the Doctrine Such were miracles healings so the Apostles immediately called of Christ and extraordinarily indue with the Spirit So the Prophete not so much to 〈◊〉 ●uture events 〈◊〉 to shew the fulfillin● of the prophesies con●●●ning the M●●●h in the Lord Jesus Christ to these we may add the 〈…〉 Writes of the Go●pel and therein of Christ h●s ●●●h 〈◊〉 ●●ath and the c nseq● nces of it these I say were 〈…〉 because of the then present condition of the Ch●●●● 〈◊〉 there 〈◊〉 no need 〈◊〉 them becau●e of the growth 〈◊〉 the Church th● confirmation of the Doctrine and that we exp●●● 〈…〉 But as to Teachers or Preachers spoken in 〈…〉 ●s necessa y to have them alwayes in Mat. 28. Christ sent 〈◊〉 D●●●ples not to pr●phe●●e t●●●al or to work Miracles but teach the Nations v rs 1● which function 〈◊〉 rehearsed vers ●0 teachin● them To his D●sciples as Ministers or Teachers not as Apostles 〈◊〉 Prophets h● promi●ed his presence untill the end of the world so 〈◊〉 till then the 〈◊〉 shall be Teache s in the Church and as the Doctrine is to be continued to the Church to is Discipline for 〈…〉 ess●●● to the being so is the other to the well-being of 〈…〉 as long as the Church shall be Church as lon● there shall be a Government for the hou●e of God is the h●●se of Order● t●●●e t●●n●s prea●●e● we could not omit because they are a g od ●●●●lation for what we intend to say which is t●●s There is an office in the Church of God here called Government 〈◊〉 the objected that office is government This you see assert●● 〈…〉 G●● hath to 〈◊〉 in the Church Governments that is 〈…〉 ●●●●es that the afore-●oin● offices are named in the ●●nc●●te and persons as Apostles Prophets c. and this 〈…〉 un●erst●●d I ●●nd th●s Hebratines often used in Scriptu●es w●en ●●e 〈◊〉 of su●●tiantiv● 〈◊〉 p●● 〈◊〉 the ●●n●●●te o● 〈…〉 is made W●●d●m Ri●hteousn●●s that 〈…〉 To deny that there are such in the Church is 〈…〉 the Lord Chr●●t from whence are administrat on 〈◊〉 5 ●n● in this 2 〈◊〉 he hath set this order Secondly It 〈◊〉 to g●ve t●● lye to the Apostle and thi●dly ●t is to ●●n into the absurd●●y 〈…〉 the natu●al body ve● 15 16. If the so●t shall say ●ecause I am 〈◊〉 the hand I am not of the body is it not of the body so 〈◊〉 Rule●● of Governours in the Chu●ch shall say because I am not a Teacher therefore I am not of the Church is be not therefore of the Church for if all were Preachers where were the Hearers the Rulers c. And to know who and how these Governours are I wish it were taken notice of that the Apostle maketh a comparison between Christ's mystical body the Church and a man's natural body for as there are several members that have several functions so in the body mystical of Christ there are several members that have several offices and as these offices are different one from another as ver 5. so the persons by whom they are administred are different and therefore as the persons so the offices are not to be confuted the one cannot administer the function of another without intrusion and usurpation the Ruler must not preach and if the Preacher doth govern it is not as he is a Pastor but as he is a Ruler let therefore as the Apostle saith elswhere ev●ry one abide in that whereunto he is called hence I gather that these Governours here do differ in person and charge from the Teachers expressed in this place so that some may be and are Rulers in the Church which are no Preachers nor Teachers in it if
Socintans denying Christs Deity Others Pelagians disowning original sinne Others have and still do professe themselves Lutherans in the point of Consubstantiation which destroyeth the nature of Christs Body and the Articles of his Ascersion and sitting at the right hand of God As for Arminianism destructive of Grace it is boldly and publikely professed by most of them if not all For I confesse of those many whom I know to be of that party there is none who destroyeth not Grace to set up the strength of mans will which is meet Sci●●pelagianism owned by them to the hei●ht Nay there be some so impudent as to publish in p●●nt that which is called Arminianism to be the Doctrine of the Church of England wilfully not taking notice of the 9. Artic. that after the Synod of Dor● were inserted into the Confession of Faith of the Church of England by King Iames his command who as it is known was no friend to Puritans yea a great enemy to Armin●ant because of their affinity nay identity of Doctrine with ●erttius in point of prescience whose great Antagonist King James was as his writings declare him to be I know well that to make the Presbyterian Church-Government ●●●ous they much disclaim against the rigidness of it saying the ●●st ●●●er of it to be heavier then the ●●ins of Episcopacy but we must cons●●● in ●hat the● are ne●d and 〈◊〉 it 〈◊〉 in necessary things 〈◊〉 they are to be commen●●● and not blamed for th●● order 〈…〉 the necessary 〈…〉 it is to restrain ●●●●uousnesse and 〈…〉 to 〈…〉 Ch●rch-Cen●●res 〈…〉 there must be no ●●●ang be 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 to be 〈…〉 can 〈◊〉 we ●re● 〈…〉 C●●●monies 〈…〉 which are necessity ●s the san●●ifi●tion of the Sabbath and ●●an like I 〈◊〉 they w ll press that oft e ●●ne 〈◊〉 Maxi●● No Bi●●●● 〈…〉 therefore to●● P●●r●archie you destroy Monarchie 〈…〉 appeare● by the ●●●amp●e o● t●e Protestants in 〈◊〉 who 〈◊〉 they have no Bishops yet they are ●reat lo●●●● and loyal to their Kin● even amidst the greatest perso● uri●●● they have p●●●●●d th●i● fideli●●● to their Sove●●●● So ●n 〈◊〉 of Gov●rn●en●● a● the Pa●a●●●●● ●●and●●●●● c. And to ●o●re ne●●●● home into Scotland ●n the late troubles they had no Bi●●●p● in the late sence yet their loyaltie to their Soveraign testif●●d by their several attempt● for him at Worcester c. do clea●ly evince the● 〈◊〉 have been as loyal to his Majestie as any part of ●●g●and wherefore I cannot b●t abhor the damnable sl●nde● of 〈◊〉 ●●ainst Pa●itan● as if they were persons of principles 〈…〉 to the Authoritie of their P●inces and their reason it beca●●● say they Cal●●● allows it but al●● have the Paritans sw●● up●n the 〈…〉 Ca●●●● 〈◊〉 they consider him in ●●ed as a 〈◊〉 who in his time w● 〈◊〉 be wonder●●lly for Reformation 〈…〉 of a man so extraordinary ●●●ed they will 〈…〉 than be 〈◊〉 consonant to Scriptures which he 〈…〉 in the mean while he gives them the lye for 〈…〉 in his W●●● De Mag●stra●●● the lost of his institution And 〈…〉 Presbyterians by their pra●● 〈…〉 ●pon t●● l●●● Deliveran●e and c●nsider them 〈…〉 Royaltie do they 〈…〉 where 〈…〉 that they were as low as 〈…〉 let them ●ant now as high as they will How great 〈…〉 M●●● receiv● from the ●e●● who 〈◊〉 his Army D d not the Lo●● 〈…〉 a●pear to b●●● h●●●as not the C●●y 〈◊〉 mo●● P●●t●●r●●s then ●●●ceptal ●ow 〈…〉 and 〈◊〉 not the secluded members 〈◊〉 th●●● 〈…〉 that is was fo● want 〈…〉 no● yet by the● 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 in by causing the Covenant to be set up in the House and in all publick places In a word the Presbyterians cannot be deprived of the honour of having brought in the King And if M. had not herein departed of his honesty that Parliament might have made this a happy and setled Nation in state as it began but in Church better then I fear it will be Yet the Presbyterians trusted upon the King 's taking the Covenant the performance of which they may plead for it was not found in Scotland alone but also extended to England and Ireland it was indeed with horrour I heard one of the prelatical party to say that the King was not obliged to keep the Covenant but only to repent o● it Is not this I beseech you to break all divine and humane R ghts and Societie and to let the door open to all perjurie The Anabaptists say no more they do not think themselves bound to observe any Oath but we hope the King hath a better conscience then such unconscionable persons or else I tremble to think what judgements are like to befall his person or Family or the Land a Covenant taken in so solemn a manner God being called upon as a witnesse and Avenger in case of perjurie he will not be mocked not suffer to be called a witnesse to a lye for he saith he will not hold him guiltlesse that taketh his Name in vain No it is well known how his Majestie took it and that therein be s●●●● to extirpate Prelacie and that he is bound to the observation of it no godly person can deny indeed there are four kinds of Oathes which being evil in the substance it is evil to take them and double evil to execute them as in Herods oath to Herodian's daughter but as to oathes taken about indifferent things which we may take or not take we are bound afterwards to observe them when they are taken though as David saith Psalm 15. they were to our own hurt The King was not forced to take it for if he would not why did he take it I heard a Lawyer say That a man may bind himself to a post and if that post can call him to the performance of his bond he is bound to perform it so his Majestie having taken the Covenant it in conscience bound I speak as a Ca●●ist to see it performed since he freely consented to take it when he was yet at Breda afore he came to Scotland but chiefly because the end of the Covenant to wit Reformation was good yea necessarie as it may clearly be demonstrated from the danger wherein Religion was when it was taken I will give him the Example of Joshua and the Gibeonites who although they had belyed him and although God had afore forb●●●en to ma●e any covenant with them yet because they had 〈◊〉 by the L●●d 〈…〉 I●b 9. and we know how 〈…〉 by Saul upon the Kingdom in Davids ●●yes 〈…〉 and then upon Sau● children I desire that C●●enant and 〈…〉 p●●alle●ed in all 〈◊〉 ●●m●●an●es As for me I eve● 〈◊〉 upon 〈…〉 as one of the ●●ying sinnes that brought such ●●dgem●nt 〈◊〉 these Nations We be ●e therefore that the King will answer the opinion that eve●y one ●oth 〈◊〉 being a con●●●n●●● Prince and I find it was a 〈◊〉 ob●ervation made by Mt. D●●●la● at the C●●nation Sermon a S●●●●a●d 〈◊〉 the not per●●man●e of Ki●●
so then they are no Ministers but they are laymen so there are laymen Elders and Rulers in the Church and though here the Church be taken for the universal Church of which particular Churches are members and parts yet these particular Churches of Congregations must have in themselves that which is essential to a Church as it is a Church and integral to this or that Church as it is such for else it will not have the being of a Church nor the well-being of the same but we know it cannot have the being of a Church without doctrine not the well-being without discipline and as doctrine is necessary and administred by Preachers so discipline is necessary and administred by Rulers and as the object of the Preacher to wit Preaching doth differ from the object of the Ruler which is Ruling so that Ruling is not Preaching neither is Preaching Ruling therefore the person that Preacheth and the person that Ruleth must be two distinct and different persons but if they say these functions may be administred by one and the same person I will Reply then the functions of all the members of one body may be in one member of the same so hearing seeing smelling feeling c. may be in the hand or in some other member the reason is clear from the comparison of the Apostle the life and strength whereof doth consist in the diversity and difference of members and of their functions and since this comparison is so much pressed by Saint Paul we think it ought not to be neglected by us but to conclude this although we confess that in the Church a Minister may be and is a Ruler yet thereby we do not both eye the Ruling office in the Ch●rch which may be and sometimes is in it though there were no Preachers as it happeneth in some places where though they have no Min●●ters yet they love Elders to Rule and some either De●●on of other in such a case to read the Word before the Congregation of which places I have the charity to believe they a●e a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 though they have not the Word preached yet they have 〈◊〉 read till Go● be pleased to afford the● Ministers B●t to draw ni●● to the end of this whole matter we will ●ome to that place which is so s●●l and so clear for this truth as that whatsoever they an●e● to it is but three or four wo●ds for the which they can g●ve no reason nor p●esident in Scripture so that I account it 〈◊〉 answe●able the place is well known 1 Tim. 5 1● the words are there L●● the Elders that rule well be counted w●●thy of ●●n●le ●●s●●●● esp●●ially they who labour in the W●rd and Doctrine Hence doth appear that there are tw●●in●s of Elders some who do preach and some who do not as lay-Elders for an int●●du●tion unto the proof 〈◊〉 this we must take notice that Saint Paul doth write to Timothy instructions for the discharge of his office only of which this Te●●●s It is ●nown that Timothy was a Minister in the Church of Ephe●●● and an Oversee● not 〈◊〉 other Ministers as having any 〈◊〉 over them but of ●is flock which for a time only was committed to his cha●g● and perhaps he was the superintendent of others his fellow Presb●ter●●● Thus 〈◊〉 a● to be a Moderator in their Assemblies having been pre●erred to it either by Saint Paul's credit o● el●e which I b●lieve the rathe● by vertue of the choyce made of 〈◊〉 by his fellow Presbyters because of his piety and prudence he 〈◊〉 ●uch there were some that stood between him and the p●●●le there were Elders as they are called here whom he was to 〈…〉 els and she accounted by others worthy of double 〈…〉 are Rulers whose quality was honour●●●e of 〈…〉 they Ruled well b●● 〈◊〉 more 〈◊〉 be●●●es the other 〈…〉 perfection well they labo●●red in the word 〈…〉 that 〈◊〉 they were not only Ruling ●●ders but al●o 〈…〉 El●●●s ●●●m the place I a● he thus two sorts of Presbyters 〈…〉 There but of them one sort ●●●h not preach and t●e o●he● 〈◊〉 preach therefore there is a kind o● lay Presbyters be●●●●●●●ed the Minor as proved here are asserted some who role 〈…〉 in the word and doctrine and some who only rule but tho●e that only rule and labour not in c. they do not preach therefore 〈◊〉 are some Elders who do not preach but perhaps they will say that this is spoken but of one person in whom this preaching and Ruling are gradually distinct that is one and the same person is a ruling Elder and a labourer but I argue here is a double subject one general and another special but every subject here is a person therefore there is a double person the Minor is clear because universal and special are really distinct so here must be a real distinction of persons and therefore the same person which is the Elder labouring in the word and doctrine is not that person that is the ruling Elder only that general and special are really distinct it appears because Genus and Species are such as it is clear from Aristotle's definition of description of both as Species and Number are really distinct because this distinction is between res and res but to avoid falling off from the question we say hence the preaching Elder may be a Ruler when the Ruler shall not be a Preacher as now let us put Elder for the Genus as it is here and Ruling with Preaching the difference or several Species rather as anon we will prove it to be then we must draw these true propositions A preaching Elder is a Ruling Elder but a ruling Elder is not a preaching Elder this I say in Logick every man is an animal but every animal is not a man every living thing is a substance but every substance is not a living thing so every Minister is an Elder but every Elder is not a Minister because although every Species hath the Genus yet the Genus shall not be spoken equally of both Species in one and the same subject But the truth doth throughly appear from the particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 specially which is particular restrictive and specificative but that which is part rest and specif is distinctive therefore this particle is distinctive of things if joyned with things and of persons if joyned to persons as appeareth by the word et qui this is clear from other Scriptures where being ordinarily joyned to persons it doth really distinguish them as 1 Tim. 4.10 God is the Saviour of all men especially them that believe whether there be not a distinction between all men and believers Is not the particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 added to restrain and specifie believers from all men Are all men redeemed and saved Is not this proper to believers and here to say that Believers are not specified from all other men that are not believers it is to make a sad confusion between