good Intention to stop the Course of Heresy in that Country Upon this he dismiss'd them but from that time began seriously to apply himself to read the Holy Scriptures telling them that he would no longer trust his Salvation to Men who defended their Religion by such pious Frauds so they called them but which were indeed Diabolical Inventions And in a short time after both himself and his whole House made open Profession of the Reformed Religion Anno 1564. And thus much be said in Answer to your IVth Article FINIS Books lately Printed for Richard Chiswell A Discourse concerning the Celebration of Divine Service in an Unknown Tongue Quarto A Papist not Misrepresented by Protestants Being a Reply to the Reflections upon the Answer to A Papist Misrepresented and Represented Quarto An Exposition of the Doctrine of the Church of England in the several Articles proposed by the late BISHOP of CONDOM in his Exposition of the Doctrine of the Catholick Church Quarto A Defence of the Exposition of the Doctrine of the Church of England against the Exceptions of Monsieur de Meaux late Bishop of Condom and his Vindicator 4o. A CATECHISM explaining the Doctrine and Practices of the Church of Rome With an Answer thereunto By a Protestant of the Church of England 8o. A Papist Represented and not Misrepresented being an Answer to the First Second Fifth and Sixth Sheets of the Second Part of the Papist Misrepresented and Represented and for a further Vindication of the CATECHISM Quarto The Lay-Christian's Obligation to read the Holy Scriptures Quarto The Plain Man's Reply to the Catholick Missionaries 24o. An Answer to THREE PAPERS lately printed concerning the Authority of the Catholick Church in Matters of Faith and the Reformation of the Church of England Quarto A Vindication of the Answer to THREE PAPERS concerning the Unity and Authority of the Catholick Church and the Reformation of the Church of England 4o. Mr. Chillingworth's Book called The Religion of Protestants a safe way to Salvation made more generally useful by omitting Personal Contests but inserting whatsoever concerns the common Cause of Protestants or defends the Church of England with an exact Table of Contents and an Addition of some genuine Pieces of Mr. Chillingworth's never before Printed viz. against the Infallibility of the Roman Church Transubstantiation Tradition c. And an Account of what moved the Author to turn Papist with his Confutation of the said Motives An Historical Treatise written by an AUTHOR of the Communion of the CHVRCH of ROME touching Transubstantiation Wherein is made appear That according to the Principles of THAT CHVRCH This Doctrine cannot be an Article of Faith. 4o. The Protestant's Companion Or an Impartial Survey and Comparison of the Protestant Religion as by Law established with the main Doctrines of Popery Wherein is shewed that Popery is contrary to Scripture Primitive Fathers and Councils and that proved from Holy Writ the Writings of the Ancient Fathers for several hundred Years and the Confession of the most Learned Papists themselves 4o. A Sermon preached upon St. Peter's day By a Divine of the Church of England Printed with some Enlargements The Pillar and Ground of Truth A Treatise shewing that the Roman Church falsly claims to be That Church and the Pillar of That Truth mentioned by S. Paul in his first Epistle to Timothy Chap. 3. Vers 15. 4o. The Peoples Right to read the Holy Scripture Asserted 4o. A Short Summary of the principal Controversies between the Church of England and the Church of Rome being a Vindication of several Protestant Doctrines in Answer to a Late Pamphlet Intituled Protestancy destitute of Scripture Proofs 4o. An Answer to a Late Pamphlet Intituled The Judgment and Doctrine of the Clergy of the Church of England concerning one Special Branch of the King's Prerogative viz. In dispensing with the Penal Laws 4o. A Discourse of the Holy Eucharist in the two great Points of the Real Presence and the Adoration of the Host in Answer to the Two Discourses lately Printed at Oxford on this Subject To which is perfixed a Large Historical Preface relating to the same Argument Two Discourses Of Purgatory and Prayers for the Dead The Fifteen Notes of the Church as laid down by Cardinal Bellarmin examined and confuted 4o. With a Table of the Contents Preparation for Death Being a Letter sent to a young Gentlewoman in France in a dangerous Distemper of which she died By W. W. M. A. 12o. The Difference between the Church of England and the Church of Rome in opposition to a late Book Intituled An Agreement between the Church of England and Church of Rome A PRIVATE PRAYER to be used in Difficult Times A True Account of a Conference held about Religion at London Sept. 29 1687 between A. Pulton Jesuit and Tho. Tenison D. D. as also of that which led to it and followed after it 4o. The Vindication of A. Cressener Schoolmaster in Long-Acre from the Aspersions of A. Pulton Jesuit Schoolmaster in the Savoy together with some Account of his Discourse with Mr. Meredith A Discourse shewing that Protestants are on the safer Side notwithstanding the uncharitable Judgment of their Adversaries and that Their Religion is the surest Way to Heaven 4o. Six Conferences concerning the Eucharist wherein is shewed that the Doctrine of Transubstantiation overthrows the Proofs of Christian Religions A Discourse concerning the pretended Sacrament of Extreme Vnction with an account of the Occasions and Beginnings of it in the Western Church In Three Parts With a Letter to the Vindicator of the Bishop of Condom The Pamphlet entituled Speculum Ecclesiasticum or an Ecclesiastical Prospective-Glass considered in its False Reasonings and Quotations There are added by way of Preface two further Answers the First to the Defender of the Speculum the Second to the Half-sheet against the Six 〈◊〉 A Second Defence of the Exposition of the Doctrine of the Church of England against the new Exceptions of Mons de Meaux late Bishop of Condom and his Vindicator The FIRST PART In which the Account that has been given of the Bishop of Meaux's Exposition is fully Vindicated the Distinction of Old and New Popery Historically asserted and the Doctrine of the Church of Rome in Point of Image-worship more particularly considered 4o. The Incurable Scepticism of the Church of Rome By the Author of the Six Conferences concerning the Eucharist 4o. Mr. Pulton Considered in his Sincerity Reasonings Authorities Or a Just Answer to what he hath hitherto Published in his True Account his True and full Account of a Conference c. His Remarks and in them his pretended Confutation of what he calls Dr. T 's Rule of Faith. By Tho. Tenison D. D. A Full View of the Doctrines and Practices of the Antient Church relating to the Eucharist wholly different from those of the Present Roman Church and inconsistent with the belief of Transubstantiation Being a sufficient Confutation of CONSENSVS VETERVM NVBES TESTIVM and other Late Collections of the Fathers pretending to the Contrary 4o. An Answer to the Representer's Reflections upon the State and View of the Controversy With a Reply to the Vindicator's Full Answer shewing that the Vindicator has utterly ruin'd the New Design of Expounding and Representing Popery
IMPRIMATUR Liber cui Titulus A Second Defence of the Exposition of the Church of England H. Maurice Rmo in Christo P. D. Wilhelmo Arciepiscopo Cant. a Sacris Jan. 24. 1687. A SECOND DEFENCE OF THE EXPOSITION of the DOCTRINE OF THE Church of England Against the New EXCEPTIONS Of Monsieur de MEAVX AND HIS VINDICATOR The Second Part. LONDON Printed for Richard Chiswell at the Rose and Crown in St. Paul's Church-yard MDCLXXXVIII THE CONTENTS THE ANSWER to the PREFACE What little Cause those of the Church of Rome have to complain of the Evils of Heresie and Schism num 2 3. Whether Papists or Protestants have sought the most advantagious Means for the redressing of them n. 4. The Holy Scripture the only sure Foundation whereon to build our Faith n. 6. How vain the Attempts of those of the Church of Rome have been in their Disputes against us n. 9. Of the several Methods that they have taken in them n. 10. Their Complaints of our Misrepresenting their Doctrines and Practices groundless n. 18. Of the first CONVERSION of the English by AUSTIN the Monk n. 22. 47. That neither did Austin teach nor the British Churches believe or practise as the Church of Rome do's now n. 24. That for a long time after Austin both their Belief and Practice was different from that of the Church of Rome at this day n. 28. Of King HENRY VIIIth EDWARD VIth Q. MARY Q. ELIZABETH and the State of Religion in their days n. 35. That the Papists have been under-hand the Causes of our Divisions n. 42. Of the State of Religion under K. CHARLES Ist n. 45. How far we allow that Salvation is to be had in the Church of Rome n. 48. Of the Original of our CIVIL WARS in K. CHARLES Ist's time n. 51. Of the State of Religion under K. CHARLES IId and K. JAMES IId and what was the occasion of our present Controversies and how they have been carried on n. 52. What use our READERS ought to make of these Discourses n. 60. And the Method of my present DEFENCE n. 64. The Vindicators Apology for their NEW FRIENDS n. 67. And his Presumption why they cannot be supposed to palliate their Doctrine considered and refuted n. 68. The OATH to be taken by a NEW CONVERT at his admission into the Church of Rome n. 77. Introduction THat our Adversaries advance nothing New against us but repeat the same things over and over without taking the least notice of the Answers that have been given to them The ANSWER TO THE First ARTICLE THe VINDICATOR an Instance of this His first Article entirely stolen out of T. G. and confuted by Dr. Stillingfleet above 11 Years since pag. 45. num 1. That the true and genuine Sons of the Church of England have constantly charged those of the Church of Rome with IDOLATRY n. 3. In particular those whom he quotes to the contrary viz. Dr. Jackson n. 5. Dr. Field A. B. Laud. Dr. Heylin Mr. Thorndyke n. 7 8. and Dr. Hammond n. 9. His other little Cavils as to this Point consider'd n. 12. And the Authority of the Book of HOMILIES asserted n. 13. His particular Exceptions against my DEFENCE as to this Article answered And his shuffling exposed n. 19 c. The ANSWER TO THE Second ARTICLE COncerning the Object of Religious VVorship p. 55. That the VINDICATOR has in vain new modelled the B. of MEAUX's Position n. 2. The Scheme which he has laid down to justify the Doctrine and Practice of the Ch. of Rome in giving Religious Worship to others besides God consider'd in some short Reflections upon the several Parts of it The ANSWER TO THE Fourth ARTICLE OF the INVOCATION of SAINTS Of the State of the Question between us and the VINDICATOR's three Positions for the clearing of it pag. 65. n. 1 2. The Sum of this Article reduced to II. General Points I. POINT Whether it be lawful to pray to the Saints to PRAY FOR US Our Adversaries confess it not to be necessary n. 4. That it is unlawful upon the VINDICATOR 's own Principle so to do viz. That we may not give any religious Service strictly and properly so called to any other than God ONLY n. 5 6. That the Act of invoking the Saints is strictly and properly a Religious Act shewn 1st From the very Nature of the Act it self n. 7. It is not an Act of the same kind with that of desiring of our living Brethren to pray for us n. 8. But attributes to the Creature the Perfections proper to God. ib. The Bp of Meaux 's shuffling upon this occasion more particularly laid open n. 11. 2dly From the Circumstances of it n. 15. Of the Time Place and Manner in which the Romanists invoke their Saints n. 16. Of their offering up the Mass to their HONOUR and desiring its Acceptance through their MERITS n. 17 c. Of their making VOWS to the Saints n. 19 c. II. POINT What the true Doctrine and Practice of the Church of Rome is as to the Point of INVOCATION of SAINTS The Sum of this Part reduced to IV Considerations SECT I. Whether all the Prayers that are made to the Saints by those of the Church of Rome can fairly be reduced to this One Sense PRAY FOR US That they cannot shewn 1st From the Doctrine of the Council of Trent and of its Catechism n. 25. 2dly From the Opinion which those of the Church of Rome have of the State and Power of the Saints departed n. 30. 3dly From the neglect of the Council of Trent and of the Governours of the Church of Rome either to establish any such Interpretation or to Censure those that have taught otherwise n. 33. 4thly From the words of the Prayers themselves which utterly refuse such an Exposition n. 35. And from the other Service which the Church of Rome allows to the Saints and which cannot be reconciled with these Pretences n. 39. 5thly From the Opinions and Practice of some of the greatest Saints in the Roman Calendar and of other Persons of especial Note amongst them n. 40. Examples of all this n. 41 c. That the Holy Scripture is in vain alledged to countenance this Superstition n. 46. SECT II. After what manner it is that the Church of Rome prays to God through the Merits of her SAINTS The VINDICATOR's Pretences n. 49. That the Church of Rome do's truly pray to God for Mercies through the Merits of her Saints n. 51. The VINDICATOR's Excuses for this considered and exploded n. 53. That the Holy Scripture do's by no meanes countenance any such Practice n. 54. SECT III. In which the VINDICATOR's Arguments for the Establishing of this Worship are particularly consider'd and their Weakness laid open pag. 102. That the practice of Invocation of Saints is not to be proved by Holy Scripture n. 55. Nor has it the Antiquity that is pretended shewn in two periods I st PERIOD That the Custome of Praying to Saints
impossible that should fail seeing the Instances I have before given of your departure from the Tradition of the Primitive Fathers in so many particulars plainly show that it has fail'd For your argument which you alledge from Isa 59.20 It has the same Faults with the foregoing and one more For that passage 1st If it speaks any thing at All of these Matters it is for the Perpetuity not Infallibility of the Church 2dly That there is not One word in it of any priviledg either in the One or the Other kind bestow'd upon your Church in particular and the Greek or any other Church may as reasonably argue from it as your selves Nay 3dly 'T is plain from the Context that it do's not belong to any of us the Covenant here spoken of being made with Zion and those that turn from Transgression in Jacob that is as St. Paul himself applies it Rom. 11. to the Convert Jews when they shall come in and embrace the Gospel of Christ 16. And for your last Method the Concessions of Protestants themselves this will but little avail you seeing if it could be proved that any of our particular Writers had said some things in favour of your Doctrine this would be of no force against any but themselves any farther than their Arguments shall upon Examination be found to warrant their Assertions We have often told you that our Faith depends not on any Humane Authority Such Concessions may shew the weakness or Error of him that made them but they are nothing available to prescribe against the Truth of the Gospel And this I say supposing that you could produce the Opinions of Protestants as you pretend in favour of your Doctrines But now let me tell you the Collection to which you refer us has been found so very insincere by those who have had occasion to examine it that should we allow these kind of Authorities to be as conclusive against us as you can desire you would not yet be able either to advantage your selves or to convince any others by them 17. Ad Pag. 5. You see Sir what little reason we have to expect very much from these Methods which in your great Humility you have condescended to make use of in order to our Conversion And we cannot but congratulate our good Fortune that you seem to tell us you have yet some better Arguments in reserve those which you say MIGHT have been brought to prove the Authority of your Church And though you think us so fond of flying off to particular Disputes that no Arguments can keep us from them yet I do hereby promise you that when-ever you shall have clearly made out this Proposition That the Church of Rome is Infallible and whatsoever she proposes to be received by us is the truly Catholick Faith without which there is no Salvation and then shew me How I shall infallibly know amidst so many different Proposals of her Doctrine what that Faith is which this Church teaches as necessary to that End I will from thenceforth become as blindly obedient a Disciple as the most implicit Believer whose Credulity you have ever yet imposed upon with these Pretences 18. Ibid. For your next Allegation That you could never get us to take your Doctrine aright if what I have heretofore said be not sufficient I will once more put you in mind that you must first resolve to answer from Point to Point the Doctrines and Practices of the Church of Rome truly Represented before you can expect to be credited by us And if from what we have truly said concerning you you are indeed grown to be look'd upon in your own words to be as bad as Devils and your Doctrines as the Dictates of Hell it self though I believe in this excess you do something misrepresent both your selves and us you may attribute it if you please to our Calumnies against you but I believe all indifferent Persons will be able to find out some better Reasons for it 19. Ad Pag. 6. As for your Expositions which you from hence thought fit to publish to the World as your last reserve for our Conversion the World is sufficiently satisfied with what sincerity you have proceeded in them And for what you add in the close of this first Point concerning the Character of the Times that we are fallen into such as you say S. Paul foretold in which Men will not endure sound Doctrine it is indeed too true but withal it is such a Complaint as is equally made on all hands whilst every one thinks his own way the best But I will in return send you to another Character of the same Apostle concerning these Days which is all your own 2 Thess 2. vers 3 to the 13th and I think it is so plain that you may without an infallible Interpreter understand the meaning of it 20. And thus far you pursue the former Consideration of the state of the Controversy between the Papists and Protestants in general Your next work is to give some accounts of your Disputes with us of this Church in particular 21. You begin with the History of the first Conversion of the English by Augustine the Monk sent hither by Pope Gregory the Great But your account of it is so very uncertain that I would willingly hope however you quote Bede for it yet that you never read one word of him but took it upon the Credit of one of your New Converts Reason and Authority whose Errors in this Point you have as blindly embraced as his Book testifies him to have most implicitly taken up your Prevarications 22. Ad Pag. 7. Reply You tell us That notwithstanding the long want of intercourse with Rome and the Members of that Communion occasion'd by great Oppressions and Persecutions during the reign of Pagan Kings yet had there not many Errors crept into this Christian part of the Nation For S. Augustine found only two Customs amongst them which he could not tolerate the One their keeping Easter at a wrong time and the Other some Errors in the Ceremonies in Administring Baptism These two he earnestly sollicited them to Amend but they were Obstinate and would not suffer any Reformation in those two Points TILL God was pleased to testify his Mission and the Authority he came with by the Authentick Seal of Miracles 22. Answ In which Relation you are many ways mistaken For 1st As to the intercourse that you say was a long time lost between Rome and the British Churches by reason of the Persecutions of Pagan Kings this is not easy to be credited It being the middle of the 5th Century e're the Romans left this Island and the Saxons were called into it It was near the middle of the 6th before the Britains were dispossess'd of the rest of their Country and forced to retrench themselves within the Mountains of Wales During all this time their intercourse with Rome if they had any might well have continued and it was not
of that very Person whom you quote for your Relation 27. Having thus given us a proof either of your Skill or your Integrity in the account of the first Conversion of our Island under Pope Gregory the Great you next make a very large step as to the progress of your Religion and such as still confirms me more and more how very unfit you are to turn Historian 28. Add pag. 8. Reply This Faith and these Exercises say you taught and practised by St. Austin were propagated down even till King Henry the VIIIth's time Answ In which account whether we are to complain of your Ignorance or your Vnsincerity be it your part to determine this I am sure they cannot both be excused 29. I have already shewn you that that Faith which was found in the Church of England in King Henry the VIIIth's time could not have been propagated down from the time of Austin's coming hither seeing that Monk neither taught nor practised the greatest part of those Corruptions which were afterwards by degrees brought into ours as well as into the other Churches of the Roman Communion But however not to insist upon this Fundamental Mistake Can you Sir with any Conscience affirm that the Doctrine which you now teach was till King Henry the VIIIth's time without interruption received and practised in this Country 30. First For the Brittish Bishops whom you before bring in as submitting themselves to Austin your own Author Bede expresly declares that in his time which was an hundred Years after the Death of Austin they entertain'd no Communion with them Lib. 2. cap. 20. Seeing says he to this very day it is the Custom of the Britains to have no value for the Faith and Religion of the English nor to communicate with them any more than with Pagans Which Henry of Huntingdon thus confirms Lib. 3. Hist That neither the Britains nor Scots i. e. Irish would communicate with the English or with Austin their Bishop any more than with Pagans So that for one Age at least the British Bishops then neither own'd the Authority of your Church nor had any manner of Communion with the Members of it But 31. Secondly Have you never heard of some other Kings of England who with their Parliaments have most stifly opposed the Pretences of the Pope and refused all Messages from Him and made it no less than High-Treason for any one to bring his Orders or Interdicts into the Kingdom What think you of another Henry no less brave than his Successor whom you so revile in his Defence of himself against his Rebellious Subject but your Saint Thomas a Becket I could add many Acts of Parliament made long before King Henry the VIIIth's time to shew you that tho he indeed proved the most successful in his Attempts to shake off the Pope's Authority yet that several other of our Princes had shewn him the way and that the Usurpations of that See were neither quietly own'd nor patiently submitted to by his Royal Predecessors And then 32. Thirdly For the matter of your Doctrine it must certainly be a great piece of Confidence in you to pretend that this came down such as you now believe and practise from the time of Austin the Monk to King Henry the VIIIth's days I speak not now of the great Opposition that was made to it by Wickleffe tho supported by the Duke of Lancaster the Lord Marshall of England and divers others of chiefest note in this Kingdom in the time of Edward the Third and Richard the Second I need not say in how many Points he stood up against the Doctrine of your Church what a mighty Interest he had to support him against the Authority of the Pope and the Rage of the Bishop of London and his other Enemies on that account so as both freely to preach against your Errors and yet die in Peace in a good old Age. The number of his Followers was almost infinite and tho severe Laws were afterwards made against them yet could they hardly ever be utterly rooted out But yet least you should say that Wickleffe was only a Schismatick from your Church which constantly held against him I will rather shew you in a few Instances that even the Church of England it self which you suppose to have been so conformable to your present Tenets was in truth utterly opposite to your Sentiments in many Particulars And because I may not run out into too great a length I will insist only upon two but those very considerable Points 33. The first is the Doctrine of Transubstantiation which as it came but late into the Roman Church so did it by Consequence into ours too Certain it is that in the 10th Century the contrary Faith was publickly taught among us Now not to insist upon the Authority of Bede who in several parts of his Works plainly shews how little he believed your Doctrine of Transubstantiation this is undeniably evident from the Saxon Homily translated by Aelfrick and appointed in the Saxons time to be read to the People at Easter before they received the Holy Communion and which is from one end to the other directly opposite to the Doctrine of the Real Presence as establish'd by your Council of Trent And the same Aelfrick in his Letters to Wulfine Bishop of Scyrburne and to Wulfstane Archbishop of York shews his own Notions to have been exactly correspondent to what that Homily taught The Housell says he is Christes Bodye not bodelye but ghostlye Not the Bodye which he suffred in but the Bodye of which he spake when he blessed Bread and Wyne to Housell a night before his suffring and said by the blessed Bread Thys is my Bodye and agayne by the holy Wyne This is my Bloud which is shedd for manye in forgiveness of Sins Vnderstand nowe that the Lord who could turn that Bread before his suffering to his Bodye and that Wyne to his Bloude ghostlye that the self-same Lorde blesseth dayly through the Priestes handes Bread and Wyne to his ghostlye Bodye and to his ghostlye Bloud All which he more fully explains in his other Letter H. de Knyghton de Event Anglice l. 5. p. 2647 2648. Nay it appears by a Recantation of Wickleffe mention'd by Knyghton that even in the latter time of that Man's Life there was no such Doctrine then in England as Transubstantiation publickly imposed as an Article of Faith. By all which it is evident that your great Doctrine of the Real Presence with all its necessary Appendages was not as you pretend propagated down from Austin's to King Henry the Eight's time but brought in to the Church some hundreds of Years after that Monk died 34. The other Instance I shall offer to overthrow your Pretences is no less considerable viz. the Worship of Images It is well known what Opposition was made not only by the Emperor Charles the Great and the Fathers of the Synod of Franckfort but by the French
with you or it And therefore for what concerns his Subject he will still make good in the several Points in which he advanced it his distinction of Old and New Popery against you and which in your last Defence you have been shewn your self to allow of He will prove that you do palliate the ancient Doctrine of your Church and that greater Men than any either the Bishop of Meaux or your self have and do interpret your Churches Sense in a much other manner than you represent it And to this you may return or not as you think sit For your self he is resolved to be so far your Humble Servant as to joyn issue with you upon your own terms and shew you how you have abused the World to no purpose at all for that even taking your Doctrine as you misrepresent it yet still we are not able nevertheless to embrace it But then for your other proposal of throwing aside all the rest of our Points only for the sake of those two which you mention here he desires to be excused It being much more for the Edification of his Friends the Populace and whose Applause you know he courts to give them a full prospect of your Doctrine and your Misrepresentations of it than to run the Circle with you in the single Point of the Churches Authority in which they may more easily be amused and deluded by you But you say 65. Ad pag. 24. Reply That you may be bold to foretell without pretending to be a Prophet that nothing of this will be done by Me but that I shall either still fly to the Tenets and Practices of Particulars or misrepresent your Doctrine or fob off your Arguments with such an Answer as I think sufficient to Monsieur Arnaud's Perpetuité which I said wanted only Diogenes's Demonstration to confute it Answ I am very glad Sir you profess your self to be no Prophet and I have long been convinced that you are no Conjurer for if your Arguments be no better than your Guesses I shall have a very easie Task of it I have already told you what Method I resolve to proceed in and I hope you will comply so far with me as to excuse one part of it seeing I go utterly besides my measures to gratify your Desires in the other As for your fear that I should fob off your Arguments by which I suppose you mean that I shall endeavour to clude them with some imperfect Answer I do promise you it is groundless I will very carefully sift your Reply to the bottom and not let any thing that is not very impertinent pass my Examination But shall I beg leave now that I have satisfied yours to confess my own Fears and that is that as far as I can yet judg by what I have hitherto read of your Reply I shall find but few Arguments in it either to fob off or to answer For having already consider'd your Calumnies I much doubt by that time I have rectified your Mistakes too I shall have little more remaining to encounter 66. As to Monsieur Arnaud's Perpetuité I do still say that Diogenes's Demonstration is the best Confutation of it The Case in short is this Monsieur Aubertine has shewn in the first Ages of the Church that the Doctrine which we now embrace of the Holy Eucharist contrary to Transubstantiation was the ancient Catholick Doctrine of the Church This he confirms by a multitude of clear Testimonies drawn out of the Writings of those Fathers who lived in those Times Now for Monsieur Arnaud after this to think to confute this Evidence by a Logical Argument that had not the Doctrine of Transubstantiation been the Doctrine of the Church at the beginning it could never have become so afterwards and that such a little shift is sufficient to overthrow all those Testimonies this must certainly be a meer Reverie you will I hope excuse me that Expression now you know the meaning of it and needs no other Confutation than to shew him that the Matter of Fact is evidently opposite to his Pretences 67. Ad Pag. 25. Reply But such things as these you say are now adays put upon the World without a blush and they who are this day Ingenuous Learned Honest Men shall be to morrow Time-servers Blockheads and Knaves if they chance to cast but a favourable Eye towards Popery Answ O Tempora O Mores To what a sad State are we arrived that Men should be able to do such ill things and yet not blush at them But what now is the Matter Why Men who were yesterday esteem'd very honest Men are the next found out to be Knaves and Time-servers Good Sir be not too hasty 't is possible this may be done and yet no cause of blushing neither unless for those Persons who are so found out For 1. What if we mistook those Men for Honest Men who at the bottom were not so And when we saw our Error alter'd our Opinion And as every thing that is done must be done some day or other What if we took them for honest Men to day and to morrow find that they were not so honest Is it any Crime for one upon good grounds to change his Mind in this Case Again 2. There is a certain Season when the worst Man first begins to be so Now what if one that had hitherto done nothing to forfeit his Reputation should begin to do such notorious ill things as to deserve our Censure Here we had both reason to believe him an honest Man whilst he was so and as much reason to believe him otherwise since his Actions have declared his Change. So that then for ought I can find we must come at last to the grounds of these Charges before we can judg of them And for that whenever you will please to give us your Instances of the Persons who have been thus censured by us that have been heretofore esteemed honest ingenuous Men and are now found out to be Knaves and Blockheads though I shall have no occasion to justify any such censure till you can prove that I have been concern'd in passing of it yet I doubt not but those who have done this will be able to give you abundant satisfaction for it 68. Ibid. Reply You conclude all with an Insinuation the most likely to catch those that are not well acquainted with you of any thing in your whole Book That it is not likely you should palliate your Doctrine to gain Proselytes seeing that Proselyte the first time he should see you practise contrary to your Doctrine would be sure to return and expose your Villany Answ But yet to this I Answer 1st That 't is possible you may palliate your Doctrine and your Proselyte never discover it It is no such strange thing for Men to profess one thing and do another and yet by subtle distinctions j stify themselves to those who are prepared to deny Sense and Reason rather than not believe them
You tell us for instance that the Holy Cross is upon no account whatsoever to be worshipped And yet certainly your Good-friday Service directly leads you to it But then if your new Proselyte begins to enquire what this means presently you tell him a Story of Absolute and Relative Worship and he who knows nothing more of the Matter than you are pleased to let him humbly submits himself to yours and the Church's Judgment 69. If we urge your Expressions against you and he fortunes to get something of this by the end Either you confidently deny that you have any such words a Case which has happen'd to my self in this very Allegation or if you are baffled there then 't is not for instance Come let us Adore the Cross but Come let us adore Christ who suffered on it concerning which we must discourse a little by and by 70. If this too fails and we shew you plainly that you say We adore thy Cross O Lord So that our Saviour is himself distinguish'd from his Cross which you worship then the Cross there is put to signify Christ's Passion though I am afraid the Adoring of Christ's Passion is something like that which you call Jargon and we in plain English Nonsence 71. If even this be beaten off and other Hymns produced in which that Cross is plainly specified which bore Christ's Sacred Members the Tree upon whose Arms the Price of the World hung then you have your Figures ready 't is a Metonymie in one line a Prosopopaeia in the next in the third a conjunction of both together And with these Quirks the poor Implicite Proselyte's Head is turn'd round He believes there is something meant by all these hard words though he knows nothing of the Matter and his Opinion of your Integrity joined with the good assurance with which you pronounce your Oracles and thunder out your Anathema's against us as Hereticks and Schismaticks Calumniators Falsifiers Misrepresenters and what not makes him that he no longer questions your Pretences 72. As for your Authors he knows nothing of them or if he did yet those who have so many tricks to elude such clear Expressions of their publick Rituals could not want distinctions enough to expound them Or however a general out-cry against them as private Men and for whose Opinions the Church is not to Answer will at once silence all such Allegations that they shall not make any the least impression upon them By all which it appears that you may as we affirm you do palliate your Doctrine and yet your Proselyte be never the wiser for it 73. But now 2dly if he should discover something of this kind yet is it not necessary that he should therefore presently return and expose your Villany I will suppose that those few Proselytes you have made may all be reduced to these two kinds Men of Conscience or Men of Interest and Design For the latter of these whilst they serve their Interests by the Change there is no great fear of their making any such dangerous Discoveries Religion is not their Concern and whether it be New Popery or Old that they embrace they neither know nor care it is to them indifferent and they understand as well as value both alike As to the Conscientious Converts allowing for their Capacities and that they are able to overcome all the foremention'd Difficulties and to discover the Cheat which I fear is what the much greatest part of these are not able to do It is indeed hard to say what a terrible Conflict this will be apt to make in them But yet the Point of Reputation the Opinion of the World shame of Return and the dangers those commonly run who venture to reveal such Sacred Mysteries these Considerations have sometimes kept good Men a longer time in suspense than any of your Proselytes have yet had to resolve upon a return to us And who can tell what Time and Changes may one day bring forth 74. Again We know there have been many in your Church who though they have discover'd these Prevarications yet have thought that as long as they did not themselves join in your Errors they might hold their Tongues and live quietly in an External Communion with you and their Eyes have been so dazled with the Splendor Succession Extent c. of your Church that they have preferr'd it with all its Faults to Others who seem to them to want these Advantages Such were the famous George Cassander Father Barnes and others that I might mention Nay it is no very long time since a Person yet living Monsieur Ferrand has publish'd a Book to shew that were the Church of Rome as corrupt as we pretend it to be yet we ought not nevertheless to separate from it And should any of your Converts be of this Perswasion they may still continue to all appearance in your Church though they see the Errors and your falsifications of the true Doctrine of it 75. But 3dly though I do affirm that what you publish is not the Ancient Doctrine of your Church yet I do not deny but it is that which you endeavour to make pass with your Converts as such This you teach your Proselytes the Bishop of Meaux his Diocess and they rarely meet with any one that maintains the contrary But this do's not hinder that because this is the Popery of a few English Missionaries and French Expositors that therefore it has been all along the Common Doctrine of your Church or is conformable to the practice of other Countries at this day And all Men have not the leisure to go into Italy or Spain or the ability to read over your several Authors for satisfaction in it 76. But 4thly to quit all these Suppositions yet since you make it no less than a Mortal Sin to have any Doubts of your Religion you are sure as soon as any such arise in their Minds to hear of it in Confession from them Being thus acquainted with the first Motions of this kind you presently take all the ways imaginable to stifle them and hinder them from coming to an open defection from you So that though your Proselyte should begin to stagger yet unless he utterly abandon your Party without ever consulting you in it which Men of Conscience will never do he is almost under an Impossibility of ever doing it at all 77. To all which I will add but this farther Which well may and I am perswaded do's keep many from telling of Tales and exposing as you call it your Villany and that is that when you receive a new Convert into your Church you require a terrible Oath from him never by any Argument to leave or to forsake you upon pain of Perjury and Damnation if he do's And to the end the Reader may know what is the last step he is to make if he has any thoughts that way and to convince him what little force there is in your Suggestion I will here transcribe
9 10. T. G. That several eminent Divines of our Church do not allow that Book to contain in every part of it the publick dogmatical Doctrine of the Church of England and three of whose Names from * T. G 's first Answer to Dr. Still Pref. pag. 9 10. T.G. still you adorn your Margin with He answers †Dr. Still ibid. Be it so Surely there is a great deal of difference between some particular Passages and Expressions in these Homilies and that which is the main Design and Foundation of one of them But in this case we are to observe that they who deny the Church of Rome to be guilty of Idolatry do not only look on the Charge as false but as of dangerous consequence and therefore altho Men may subscribe to a Book in general as containing wholsome and Godly Doctrine tho they be not so certain of the Truth of every Passage in it yet they can never do it with a good Conscience if they believe any great and considerable part of the Doctrine therein contained to be false and dangerous 15. Thus did this Reverend Person confute your Oracle If you had offer'd any thing to prevent the same Answer from being return'd to you I should have been far from complaining against you for advancing of an old Argument with new Strength But when you saw how unable ‖ See Dr. Still Conferences against T. G. p. 22 c. T. G. was to defend these Cavils nevertheless still to produce them and tho you could not but be conscious to your self at the same time that they were not to be maintain'd I shall only say that it serves to convince me of the Truth of what an ancient Greek Poet once observed and the meaning of whose words you may enquire among the Learned at your leisure 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 16. Ad pag. ◠Reply Your next Paragraph consists of a Story of Q. Elizabeth T. G 's Dialogues against Dr. Still p. 17. and that too eccho'd form T. G's Inspiration But to this I have already return'd my Answer and when you shall think sit to speak out what you mean by it you shall not fail of a farther Consideration from me if I be not prevented by your receiving it from a more proper hand 17. And thus have we done with what concerns the general Cause in this Introduction and the Sum of all is this That of four Paragraphs of which it consists the first is Calumny the second false and I am reasonably perswaded known by you to be so the third impertinent and long since answered as was also the foregoing by the Reverend Dr. St. the last seditious I go on to the following part of this first Article to examine what relates to my self in it 18. Where first you except against my quoting your particular Authors to find out your Churches meaning and call it Calumny tho what Calumny it is to say that those Authors whom you cannot deny but that I truly cite have expounded your Churches Sense otherwise than you and some others do I cannot imagine But however you tell us Ad p. 3 4. Reply That you have nothing to do with the Doctrine of the Schools That I must take your Doctrine from your Councils the publick authentick and universally recieved Definitions and Decisions of the Church Answ And in this you still follow your old Guide * T. G. Dial. against Dr. Still p. 56 57. T. G. But I have †First Part Preface already shewn you the weakness of this Pretence and for your next supposal that even those Authors do not say what I affirm they do if your Proofs are as convincing as your Assertion is confident I have already promised you all you can desire Repl. p. 4. That I will not fail to confess that you deserve not so ill a Character as I thought Ad pag. 4. Reply Your next Paragraph charges me with VNSINCERITY in stating the Question betwixt Catholicks as you call them and Protestants for that I represented you as allowing us to hold the ancient and undoubted Foundation of the Christian Faith. Answ And is it not the ancient and undoubted Foundation of the Christian Faith which we hold and which has been deliver'd down to us in those very Creeds which your selves profess and into the Faith of which you still baptize your Children Nay do not you your self confess this to be true in the very place where you cavil against me for this Assertion ‖ Vindic. Art. 1. p. 24. Vindic. p. 24. where you grant that what we hold is the ancient and undoubted Foundation and only deny that it is intirely so And again in this very Reply in which you repeat your Accusation * Reply Art. 1. pag. 4. P. 4. I told him say you that we do not allow that Proposition ESPECIALLY IF HE MEAN all Fundamentals So that then the Vnsincerity lies not in my saying that what we hold is fundamental for this you tell me Vindicat. p. 24. NO BODY EVER DENY'D but for pretending that you allow'd that we held ALL which you esteem'd to be fundamental Now for this I must observe 1st That you dare not say positively that I affirm'd any such thing †Reply See before I told him say you that we do not allow that Proposition IF he mean ALL Fundamentals So that you positively charge me with Vnsincerity for pretending that you granted what you do not upon supposition that I MEANT any such thing 2dly That to make something of this charge you are forced to go back from your own Concession Vindic. p. 24. For whereas in your Vindication you had said plainly that tho you do not allow us to hold all Fundamentals yet no body ever deny'd that we held some of them here you clap in an Insinuation even against this too Reply p. 2. I told him that we do not allow that they hold the ancient and undoubted Foundation ESPECIALLY if he meant ALL Fundamentals So that tho you do deny it ESPECIALLY if we mean ALL Fundamentals yet you do not altogether allow even that what we hold is fundamental But 3dly Where at last do you find that I ever said that you granted that we held ALL which you esteem to be fundamental In my Exposition I tell you in the very next words to those you cavil at that this was the thing to be put upon the issue Expos C. E. p. ◠Whether those Articles which you had added to this ancient and undoubted Foundation as Superstructures to it were not so far from being NECESSARY Articles of Religion as YOV PRETEND that they indeed overthrow that Faith which is on both sides allow'd to be Divine And when in your Vindication you first made this little Exception I again repeated it in these very words which you take no notice of in your Reply But the Vindicator Defen of the Expos p. ◠jealous for the
Authority of his Church and to have whatsoever she proposes pass for fundamental confesses that we do indeed hold a PART but not ALL those Articles that are fundamental THIS therefore must be put upon the issue So that whereas you accuse me of perverting the Bishop of Meaux's Sense it is indeed you that have I fear wilfully perverted mine What I said both of you acknowledg viz. that what we hold is the ancient and undoubted Truth and you cannot deny the State of the Question to be just as I have said Whether what you farther advance and what we-reject be not so far from being Fundamental Truth that it is indeed no Truth at all but rather contrary to and destructive of that Truth which is on both sides allow'd to be Divine 20. Ad p. 5. Reply But you go yet farther in this Point against me and accuse me in the next place of perverting your own Sense too by saying that you confess that those Articles which you hold and we contradict do by evident and undoubted Consequence destroy those Truths that are on both sides agreed to be fundamental And you wonder with what Spectacles I read this Answ The Spectacles I use are plain Honesty and plain Reason if you have better I envy you not In stating the Question between us I said * Expos C. E. p. 5. Def. p. 5. the thing to be put upon the issue was Whether those Additions which the Church of Rome has made to the ancient and undoubted Faith were not so far from being Fundamental Truths that they do even by your own Confession overthrow those Truths that are on both sides allow'd to be Fundamental This you deny you ever said and yet in the very next words you confess the contrary †Reply p. 5. Vindicat. p. 23. 'T is true say you I tell him that were the Doctrines and Practices which HE ALLEDGES the plain and confess'd Doctrines and Practices of the Church of Rome he would have reason to say that they contradict our Principles But I tell him also that we renounce these Doctrines and Practices But this is not now the Question whether you renounce these Doctrines and Practices or no Did not you confess that those Doctrines which I charge you with do overthrow the Truths that are on both sides allow'd to be Divine This you cannot nay you do not deny And this was what I asserted and for which you most injuriously accuse me of perverting your Sense As to your denial of these things that I have already shewn to be a groundless Pretence and shall yet farther prove you to be as guilty of prevaricating in your Evasion as it is evident you have been in your accusing of me 21. Ibid. For the Parallel you add between our charging you as guilty of Idolatry upon the account of your Worship and the Fanatick's Clamours against us for our Ceremonies and against the Justice of which you think we have little to say it still more confirms me that the ancient Poet I before mention'd was a wise Man For after so full a Confutation as has been given to this Parallel by * Answer to the Amicable Accommodation The View of the whole Controversy c. two several Hands for you to presume still to say that we have little to reply to it this would certainly have made any other Creature in the World blush but a Man that has taken his leave of Modesty 22. Ad pag. 6. For your last little Reflection which you have dubb'd with the Title of Protestant Charity and Moderation I shall only tell you that to charge you with adoring Men and Women Crosses Images and Relicks is no more a breach of Charity than it would be to charge a Man with Murder or Theft whom I actually saw killing his Neighbour or stealing away his Goods If you are indeed guilty of doing this 't is Charity to admonish those of their danger whom you might otherwise ensnare by your confident denying of it But the truth is it is the Justice of this Reflection that so much troubles you and you could be well enough content we should accuse you of doing this if you could but find out any means to prevent our proving of it The ANSWER to the SECOND ARTICLE That Religious Worship terminates ultimately in God alone 1. AD p. 6. Reply In the beginning of this Article you seem a little concern'd that I took no more notice of what you had said in your Vindication concerning your Distinctions of Religious Worship You pretend that I did not do it because if I had all my Quotations out of your Liturgies would have signified just nothing neither could I have made so plausible an Excuse for my Calumnies and Falsifications And you conjure me not to obstruct the Hopes of a Christian Unity by a future Misapplication of these Terms 2. Answ It is perhaps none of the least Instances of that Perplexity into which Sin and Error commonly lead those who have been involved in them to consider what a multiplicity of obscure and barbarous Terms the Iniquity of these latter Ages has invented to confound those things which are otherwise in themselves of the greatest Clearness and Evidence Whilst Men kept to that Primitive Rule of the Gospel * Mat. iv 10. Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him ONLY shalt thou serve the Law was simple and easie and there was no need of any Distinctions either to excuse or to condemn the Worship of any other besides him The Command was so plain that the Devil himself had nothing to say to it As for the Sophistry we are now to encounter and by which you would have been able to have taken that offer which our Saviour refused and yet have salved your Conscience of any breach of the Precept too he was either yet to learn it or else it appeared to him so thin and contemptible that however he has since inspired others with it yet he was ashamed himself to insist upon it But however seeing Mens words are their own and let them express their Conceptions after what manner they please it is enough for us that we understand their meaning I shall content my self to draw up a short Summary of what you here offer and which indeed is all that your Party has to insist upon on this occasion and we shall hereafter see when you come to the Application of these Distinctions whether there be any thing in them to excuse you of that Guilt we here charge you with 3. But before I enter upon this Enquiry I cannot but observe the Change you make in the Title of this Article Hitherto we have had it in these words †Monsieur de M. Expos Art. 3. Vindic. Art. 2. Religious Worship is terminated only in God Now you add another Restriction ‖ Reply Art. 2. That Religious Worship terminates ultimately in God alone By which you would seem to imply that Religious
Plots Persecutions and such like 2. The Means of Fraud and Deceit your false Expositions and Misrepresentations of your Doctrine to deceive the ignorant and unwary till you get them into your Nets 3. The Means of Confidence and Vncharitableness your bold Anathema's and vain thundrings of Damnation against all that differ from you your assuming the Name and Priviledges of the Church Catholick to your single Communion and excluding all others out of it as Schismaticks and Hereticks And lastly to mention no more the Means of gross Ignorance and blind Obedience by depriving Men of their liberty of reading the Holy Scripture by keeping your Service in an unknown Tongue by teaching Men to depend intirely upon your Churches Dictates and not to depart from them tho Sense Reason Scripture all be contrary to them These are I confess some of those peculiar Means whereby you have sought to procure Christian Peace and Experience tells you that they are indeed the most advantageous of any to the Cause you have to defend And if these be the Means which you say we have opposed I hope we shall always continue so to do and rather bear all the Evils of these Divisions than either buy Peace upon such Terms or pursue it by such Means as these 5. Ad p. 2 3. To what I observed from the late Methods that had been taken up in our Neighbour Country to avoid the entring upon particular Disputes which I said you were sensible had been the least favourable of any to your Cause you reply That you have never declined fighting with us at any Weapon which how true it is the account before given of your managing the present Controversie with us sufficiently declares And indeed you seem in some sort to have been sensible of it and therefore recur to your Antient Authors for proof of your Assertion The Sum of what you say is this 6. Reply That there have been three sorts of Protestants since the Reformation 1. Some who appealed to Scripture only neither would they admit of Primitive Fathers nor Councils 2. Others who perceived that they could not maintain several Tenets and Practices of their own by the bare words of Scripture and despairing of Fathers and Councils of latter Ages pretended at least to admit of the first four General Councils and of the Fathers of the first three or four hundred Years 3. Others finally who ventured to name Tradition as a useful Means to arrive at the true Faith. And all these you say you have convinced of their Errors 7. Answ It has always been your way to multiply Sects and Divisions among Protestants as much as ever you were able and then to complain against us upon the account of them and here you have given us a notable Instance of it The three Opinions you have drawn out as so many different Parties amongst us do all resolve into the very same Principle That the Holy Scripture is the only perfect and sufficient Rule of Faith So that all other Authorities whether of Fathers or Councils or unwritten Tradition are to be examined by it and no farther to be admitted by us than they agree with it This is in effect the common belief of all Protestants whatsoever as appears from their several Confessions and might easily be shewn out of the Writings of our first Reformers and the most eminent of those who have lived since and built their Faith upon the same Foundation It is true indeed there have been some who the better to maintain their Separation from the Church of England have from this sound Principle That nothing is to be received by us as a Matter of Faith but what is either plainly expressed in the Holy Scripture or can evidently be proved by it drawn a very ill Consequence viz. That nothing might lawfully be done or used in the Worship of God unless there were some Command or Example for it in Scripture and have by this means run themselves into great Inconveniences But the Rule of Faith which an uninterrupted Tradition by the common consent of all Parties of Christians however otherwise disagreeing in other Points has brought down to us and delivered into our hands as the Word of God this has among all Protestants been ever the same viz. The Holy Scripture And if for the farther proof of the Truth of our Doctrine we have at any time put the issue of our Cause to the decision of the Church of the first three or four hundred Years it is not because we suppose that those Fathers who then lived have any more right to judg us or determine our Faith than those that follow'd after but because upon examination we find them to have yet continued at least as to the common Belief received and establish'd amongst them in their Purity and that what was generally establish'd and practised by them was indeed conformable both to their and our Rule the Word of God. 8. This then is our Common Principle and this you cannot deny to be most reasonable For whatsoever Authority you would have us give to those Holy Fathers yet it cannot be doubted but that 1st Being * Durandus l. 4. Sent. d. 7. q. 4. de S. Gregorio Nescio cur non possit dici quòd Gregorius cum fuerit Homo non Deus potuerit Errare Men subject to the same Infirmities with our selves they were by consequence obnoxious to Errors as well as we and therefore may not without all examination be securely follow'd by us Especially if we consider 2dly That we are expresly forbid in Holy Scripture to rely on any Persons whatsoever without enquiry whether what they teach be true or not Dearly Beloved says St. John believe not every Spirit 1 John 4.1 but try the Spirits whether they be of God or no. The same is St. Paul's Doctrine To prove all things and then hold fast that which is good 1 Thess 5.21 St. Peter exhorts all Christians to be ready to give a reason of the Hope that is in them 1 Pet. 3.15 And our Blessed Saviour himself once gave the same encouragement of examining even his own Doctrine And why says he of your selves do you not judg that which is right Luke 12 57. Nay but 3dly these Holy Fathers were not only capable of Erring but in many things they actually did Err and are forsaken by you upon that account The Millenary Opinion was generally received in the first Ages of the Church They derived it from St. John to Papias from him to Justin Martyr Irenaeus Melito Tertullian c. Yet is this Opinion now rejected by you The Doctrine of the necessity of Communicating Infants was the Common Doctrine of the Fathers in S. Austin's Time and is confess'd by your most Learned Men Cardinal Perron and Others to have been generally practised in the Church for the first six hundred Years Concil Trid. Sess 21. Can. 4. Yet have you Anathematized those who shall now assert with
fifty Years after that Austin the Monk came into England 2dly you say that Austin found only two Customs among the Christians here that he could not tollerate 'T is true indeed upon the second meeting that he had with the Brittish Bishops Bede Lib. 2. c. 2. he told them That though in many things they were contrary to the custom of his Church yet if in those two mentioned they would obey him and joyn with him in preaching the Gospel to the Saxons he would bear with them in the rest But did they therefore acknowledg his Authority in complying with his Desires so you would make us believe They were Obstinate say you TILL God was pleased to testify his Mission and the Authority he came with by the Authentick Seal of Miracles As for his Miracles we have no great Opinion of their Authority since we read in the passage to which I just now referr'd you that Antichrist himself shall come with this Attestation Gal. 1.9 It is the Doctrine that must give credit to the Miracles not these to the Doctrine Should an Angel from Heaven preach any other Gospel than that which we have received St. Paul has commanded us for all the Wonder to bid him be Anathema But I return to the History in which you so notoriously prevaricate that I cannot imagine how one that pretends in this inquisitive Age to deliver the Antiquities of his own Country durst betray himself so notoriously ignorant of it See Sir Bede Loc. cit the words of your own Author Bede expresly contrary to your Allegation But they answer'd that they would do nothing of all this nor receive him for an Arch-Bishop Insomuch that Austin came to high words with them threatning them with that Destruction which they afterwards to their cost met with from his new Saxon Converts And your illustrious Annalist Card. Baron Annal. Tom. 8. An. 604. Baronius cannot forbear making some severe Reflections upon the State of our Island at that Time as if God had therefore given it into the hands of the Barbarians because of the refractory and schismatical Minds of these Bishops 23. Ibid. Reply Your Adversaries you say acknowledg that when St. Austin came into England he taught most if not all the same Doctrines the Roman Catholick Church now teaches c. 24. Answ If S. Austin as you call him taught the same Doctrine which Pope Gregory the Great taught who sent him hither and whose Disciple we are told he was I must then put you in Mind that a very Learned Man has lately shew'd you and I may reasonably presume you could not but know it that he did not teach most much less all the Doctrines which you now teach No Sir the Mystery of Iniquity was not yet come to Perfection and tho your Church had even then in many things declined from its first Faith yet was it much more pure than now it is Protestants Apology p. 57 c. 2d Edit Had you when you took this Pretence from your Friend Mr. Brerely look'd into the Answer that was at large made to it I am perswaded you would have been asham'd to have again advanced so false and trifling an Objection Look Sir I beseech you into the Protestants Appeal Prot. Appeal lib. 1. cap. 2. or if that be too much for one of your Employments look into the Treatise to which I refer you There you will find 1. Vind. of the Answ of some late Papers p. 72 c. That the Scripture was yet received as a perfect Rule of Faith. 2. The Books of the Maccabees which you now put into your Canon rejected then as Apochryphal 3. That Good Works were not yet esteem'd meritorious Nor 4. Auricular Confession a Sacrament That 5. Solitary Masses were disallow'd by him And 6. Transubstantiation yet unborn That 7. The Sacrament of the Eucharist was hitherto administred in both kinds And 8. Purgatory it self not brought either to certainty or to perfection That by consequence 9. Masses for the Dead were not intended to deliver Souls from those Torments Nor 10. Images allow'd for any other purpose than for Ornament and Instruction 11. That the Sacrament of Extreme Vnction was yet unform'd and even 12. The Pope's Supremacy so far from being then establish'd as it now is that Pope Gregory thought it to be the fore-running of Antichrist for one Bishop to set himself above all the rest These are the Instances in which you have been shewn the vast difference there is between Pope Gregory's Doctrine and that of the Council of Trent and which may serve for a Specimen to satisfie the World with what Truth you pretend that we acknowledg that S. Austin when he came into England taught most if not all the same Doctrines that you now teach And this may also suffice for your next Argument founded upon it viz. 25. Add pag. 7 8. Reply That these Doctrines and Practices were either then taught and exercised by the British Christians also or they were not If they were not taught by them certainly we should not have found them so easily submitting to them If they were taught by the British Bishops also then they were of a longer standing than S. Austin's time and we must either grant they were introduced by the first Preachers of the Gospel here or evidently shew some other time before St. Austin when this Church embraced them 26. Answ A Dilemma is a terrible thing with Sense and Truth but without them 't is a ridiculous one as I take this to be For 1. It is evident from what I have before said that Austin did not teach the same Doctrines nor establish the same Practices that you do now teach and establish but did indeed in most of your Corruptions differ from you So that like the unwise Builder you have erected a stately Fabrick and founded it upon the Sand. 2. Had he been as very a Romish Missionary as your self yet is your Argument still inconclusive For whereas you suppose the Brittish Bishops submitted to him they were on the contrary so far from either obeying his Authority or following his Prescriptions that as I have shewn you they utterly rejected both and I will presently add that for above a hundred Years after his Death they utterly refused so much as to communicate with his Proselytes nor esteem'd them any more than Pagans So that I may now turn your own Argument upon you that seeing they had such an Abhorrence for Austin and his Followers that they look'd upon them no better than Heathens it very probably was because they neither approved what he taught nor saw any cause to submit to that Authority to which he pretended You see Sir what an admirable Argument you here flourish with and how little cause we have to expect any great Sincerity from you in other matters when in the very History of your own Country you so wretchedly prevaricate and against the express Authority
Clergy in their Synod at Paris and by almost all the rest of the Bishops of the Western Church against your pretended General Council of Nice wherein this Doctrine was first establish'd The Definitions of this Council being sent to the Emperour out of the East he transmitted a Copy of them into England Hereupon Alcuinus who had formerly been his School-master wrote an Answer to him in the Name of the Clergy of England to declare their dislike of this Doctrine and the account of which our ancient Histories give us in these words In the Year from the Incarnation of our Lord 792 Charles King of France sent to Britain a Synode Booke which was directed unto him from Constantinople Hoveden Annal ad Ann. 792. Simeon Dunelm Hist p. 111. Mat. West ad An. 793. Spelm. Conc. Tom. 1. p. 306. in the which Book alas many things unconvenient and contrarye to the true Fayth were found in especial that it was establyshed with a whole consent almost of all the Learned of the East no less than of three hundredth Bishops or more that Men ought to worship Images the whiche the Churche of God DOTH VTTERLYE ABHORRE Against the whiche Alcuine wrote an Epistle wonderouslye proved by the Authoritye of Holy Scripture and brought that Epistle with the same Booke and Names of our Byshops and Princes to the King of France And thus neither was this Doctrine nor Practice propagated down from Austin to King Henry the Eighth but on the contrary unknown to Austin and rejected as you see by the Church of England almost 200 Years after his first Conversion of it 35. Ibid. And this may suffice to shew both your Skill in Church-History and the little pretence you have for that vain and most false Assertion that your Religion was taught and practised by S. Austin and propagated down even to King Henry the Eighth 's time whereas indeed it is made up of such Corruptions as crept into it long after his Decease Your next business is to rail at King Henry the Eighth which you do very heartily See Thuanus tho let me tell you that better Men than you are even of your own Commuion and who were much more acquainted with the Affairs of those Times speak better things of him And had he been as bad as you are able to represent him yet I could send you to some of the Heads of your Church who have as far excell'd him in Wickedness as ever any of your Canonists have pretended they did in Authority But the Merits of Princes as well as ordinary Persons are measured by some Men not according to their real worth but as they have served their Interests or opposed the Usurpations And tho King Henry the Eighth be now such a Monster yet had he not thrown off the Pope's Supremacy you would have made no difficulty to have forgiven him all his other Sins whilst he lived and would have found out somewhat to justify his Memory now he is dead We know how one of the best Popes of this last thousand Years called Heaven and Earth to celebrate the Praises of a Traytor that had murder'd his Master and possess'd himself of his Empire And Cromwell himself tho a Usurper and Heretick yet wanted not his Panegyrists among those pretenders to Loyalty who now cannot afford a good word to the Honour of a Prince from whose Royal Line their present Sovereign at this day derives his Right to the Crown he wears 36. But however were the Vices of that Prince otherwise never so detestable yet I shall leave it to the World to judg who proceeded with the most Care and Sincerity in the Point you insist upon of his Divorce with Q. Catherine the King who consulted almost all the Learned Men as well as the most famous Vniversities of Europe and then acted according to their Determination Or the Pope who by his notorious jugling with him in the whole process of that Affair shew'd that he resolved to decide it not by any Laws of God or the Church but meerly as his greater Interests with the Emperor or the King should move him to do 37. Ibid. The next step you make is from King Henry to his Son King Edward the Sixth And here you tell us Reply p. 8. That as Schism is commonly follow'd with Heresy so now the Protector who was tainted with Zuinglianism a Reform from Luther endeavour'd to set it up here in England In which you again discover your Zeal against us but not according to Vnderstanding There is hardly any one that knows any thing of the beginning of this Reformation but will be able to tell you that the chief Instrument of it was one whom you have not once mentioned Arch-bishop Cranmer I will not deny but that the Protector concur'd with him in his design but whether he was Zuinglian or what else neither you nor I can tell Dr. Heylin See your Hist Coll. p. 103. who on this occasion is usually your Oracle seems rather to think he was a Lutheran tho easie to be moulded into any form But this I know that had you been so well vers'd in these things Hosp Hist Sacram par 2. p. 33. Lampadius par 3. p. 439. Scultetus Annal. ad An. 1616. as one who pretends to write Historical Remarks ought to be you would have spared that idle Reflection of Zuinglius's being a Reform from Luther it being evident to those who understand his History that neither himself nor the Cantons in which he preach'd were ever Lutherans But on the contrary whereas Luther appear'd but in the Year 1517 Zuinglius began to preach against the Corruptions of the Church of Rome some Years before when the very Name of Luther was not yet heard of And had several Conferences with Cardinal Matthews then in Switzerland to this purpose before ever the other appear'd in publick against them So unfortunate a thing is it for Men to pretend to be witty upon others without considering their own blind side But you go on 38. Ad pag. 9. Reply And from that time the Catholick Doctrine which had been taught by our first Apostles and propagated till then began to be rejected and accused as Erroneons Superstitious and Idolatrous and they who profess'd it persecuted Answ This is still of the same kind as false as it is malicious How false it is that the Doctrine you now profess was either planted here by our first Apostles or propagated till this time in the Church of England I have already shewn And for the Persecution you speak of methinks you should have been asham'd to mention that word being to name Q. Mary's Reign in the very next Line But what at last did this Persecution amount to Were any Roman Catholicks banish'd or put to death for their Religion Were the Laws turn'd against them or any Dragoons sent to convert them No Bonner and Fisher and two others Heath Bishop of Worcester and Day Bishop of Chichester
neither universally nor necessarily received Answ And this Book tho it produced not any manner of Authority for its Representations and was contrary in most Points to the Opinions of the chiefest Writers of your Church soon received an Answer in every particular There your Doctrine was truly stated from your own Authors his false Colours detected and to your shame never replied to For I suppose no one will be so far mistaken as to think that Triflle that came out against it deserves the Name of an Answer 57. Ad pag. 13. And whilst this Book yet subsists in its full force and that we have so effectually shewn you the Opinions of the most Eminent Divines of your Church the Practice of the Generality amongst you and the very words of your Councils and Liturgies to be utterly inconsistent with your new Representations that you are not able to make any reasonable Defence of the one and are forced utterly to reject after all the other What a Forehead must that Man have that can tell the World as you do That we CANNOT DENY what yet you complain of Me in this very Book for denying that all Catholicks do believe according to that Doctrine which the Representer expresses and which you in vain endeavour as I shall hereafter shew you to defend 58. Ad pag. 14. Reply During this Dispute two Books you say were publish'd with the same Intention The first The Acts of the Clergy of France in their General Assembly 1685. in which was shewn in one Column the Doctrine of your Church from the words of the Council of Trent in the other the Calumnies of Protestants against you from the very words of their Authors And this you think to have been so clear a Proof of what the Representer had said that you suppose his Adversaries would not think fit to contest it longer against such plain and ample Testimonies Answ And here you think you have found out somewhat to boast of A Wonder indeed not every day to be seen a Book never yet answered by us 'T is true I do not know of any one here at home that has taken the pains to examine the Clergy's Quotations as the Answer to Papists protesting against Protestant Popery has done for the Instances there offer'd by their Humble Imitator the Representer But then the discovery that was made by that worthy Author of the whole Cheat by distinguishing Matters of Dispute from Matters of Representation has abundantly confuted all their Pretences We charge you for Instance with Idolatry for worshipping of Images Praying to Saints and for adoring the Host. If you do not worship Images nor pray to Saints nor adore the Host then indeed we Misrepresent you But now for the other Point that therefore you commit Idolatry this is our Consequence which we draw from those Practices and must be put to the Trial betwixt us If our Reasons be good our Conclusion will be so too If they are not we are then mistaken in our Opinion and you may say we are in an Error but we do not therefore misrepresent you We never yet pretended that you thought Idolatry to be lawful or that you confess'd that you committed it We accuse you of it only as a thing which upon the Premises before mention'd we conclude you to be guilty of and in that certainly if we misrepresent any Body it must be our selves not you Now this one thing being observed the Book you mention is utterly overthrown and both the Artifice and the Evidence fall together 59. Ibid. The other Book you tell us you publish'd was the Bishop of Meaux's Exposition and what has been done on this occasion is very well known and I shall not need to give any account of it 60. Ad pag. 17. And thus have we done with the two Points to which I reduced the Sum of your Preface What farther remains is your Advice to the Readers of our Books what they are to take notice of and what to pass over in them You tell them that you will lay down the true State of the difference betwixt us and that whatever they find written by us that does not immediately oppose some of those Tenets they should pass it over tho never so plausible or pleasing 61. Now how Politick such an Advice as this may be to hinder the good effect of our Writing I will not dispute but sure I am it is highly unreasonable For what if the very Subject of the Controversie should be as indeed at this time it is whether those things which you here lay down be your Churches Doctrine or only your private Exposition of it Ought not the judicious Reader in this case to consider our Allegations and see whether we have not reason to say that you do endeavour to delude them by pretending that to be your Belief which in truth is not received by the Generality of your Church as such As for instance You positively deny that the Holy Cross is upon ANY ACCOVNT WHATSOEVER to be worshipped with DIVINE WORSHIP Now this we deny too and therefore as to this Point there can be no Dispute betwixt us But now what if I should undertake to shew that you here impose upon your Reader and that whatsoever you pretend yet your Church does teach that the Holy Cross IS TO BE WORSHIPPED with DIVINE WORSHIP and Practises accordingly Is not this think you fit to be considered by him Or is the Bishop of Meaux's Exposition become so far the Guide in Controversie in France and England that all other Expositions are to be look'd upon as superannuated and this only to contain the true Interpretation of your pretended Catholick Faith. 62. But indeed I do not wonder that you would perswade your Proselytes not to read our Books since you easily guess that those things may well stagger them which were not your Obstinacy or your Prejudices too strong for your Reason and Conscience to grapple with must long e're this have convinced as they have sufficiently confuted your own selves 63. Ad pag. 27. And because you are not willing to prolong Disputes you do here declare that if the Defender do meddle hereafter with such Points as those which are not of necessary Faith you shall not think your self obliged to answer him tho after that he may perhaps boast how he had the last Word Answ That is to say the great business of the Defender has been to discover your true Doctrine and yours to dissemble it Now if the Defender makes any Answer at all to your Reply it must be to maintain those Doctrines to be yours which he had laid to your Charge and which you deny And this if he does you here declare you will have done with him Which I think is plainly to confess that you have had enough of this Argument 64. But Sir the Defender has such a kindness for his Subject and such a respect for You that he is resolved not to part either
AS ALL PAPISTS DO is by the proper Sense of their words DOWN-RIGHT IDOLATRY If they say their meaning is by a Figure only to desire them to procure their Requests of God how dare any Christian trust his Soul with that Church which teaches that which must needs be IDOLATRY in all that understand not the Figure 8. Such was the last Judgment of this Learned and Pious Man in this matter If after this it be necessary to say any thing to his former Opinion I will only observe that the ground of it was this Mistake viz. †Just Weights and Measures p. 6. Edit Lond. 1662. cap. 1. That a Christian Church without renouncing the Profession of the true God cannot be guilty of IDOLATRY Now this ‖ De Imag. lib. 2. cap. 24. pag. 2153. Card. Bellarmine himself and others of your Church do utterly deny For says he it is Idolatry not only when one adores an Idol leaving God but also when an Idol is adored together with God. 9. The last of your Divines whom you cite as excusing you from Idolatry is the Reverend * Dr. HAMMOND Pract. Disc Lond. 1674. § 44. p. 351. Sect. 50. p. 353 354. Dr. Hammond but your falseness is as notorious in him as in all the rest For in a particular Discourse of Idolatry § 44. He approves and explains the design of our Homilies against the peril of Idolatry § 50. He says That your worshipping of Images in the most moderate way that can be is for ought he knows a kind of Idol-Worship but to be sure a prohibited Act § 54. That to put up those Petitions to the Blessed Virgin which are terminated in her self Sect. 54. p. 354. as many Forms if not her whole Office may appear to be are Acts parallel to the Old Idolatry Sect. 56. p. 355. § 56. That your worshipping of Images notwithstanding all your distinctions of worshipping God mediante Imagine Sect. 64. p. 357. or relative c. is Idolatry § 64. That the Worship of the Bread in the Sacrament must certainly be Idolatry That your Error about Transubstantiation and your good design of worshipping Christ there may he hopes be some excuse for you but that your Opinion will not hinder it from being at least material Idolatry and the worshipping of something that is not God. 10. So that now upon the whole it remains that there is not so much as a shadow of Truth in your Assertion that the true and genuine Sons of the Church of England have excused your Church of the odious Imputation of Idolatry My next business is to shew that you did or ought to have known that there was not one word of Truth in what you said 11. Now this will depend upon the Answer which I shall leave any honest Man to give to these two plain Questions 1. Whether when you stole all this out of T. G. you either did not or ought not to have known that Dr. St. had answered all these Cavils many Years since and shewn that there was no Truth nor Sincerity in them 2. Whether a Man that quotes but six Authors for an Assertion derogatory to the Establishment of their Church and contrary to the publick Doctrine of the Homilies and Injunctions and to the private Opinions of the Generality of the Divines of it ought not to have been sure that those Authors at least did affirm that which he pretends they did The latter of these will conclude against you that you ought to have known that what you here say is false because you ought to have examined these Authors and then you would have known it to be so And for the former were not your Conscience unfit to be appeal'd to in a matter of Truth against your self I durst appeal to your own Soul whether you did not know that the Learned Man I have so often mentioned had shewn T. G. how false these Pretences were But I go on with you to your next Paragraph where you tell Me 12. Ad pag. 2. Reply You would gladly know wherefore at this time I charge you with the odious Imputation of adoring Men and Women Crosses and Images c. Answ To satisfie you in which Demand I reply 1. That I charge you with this because it is true and I have both shewn it already and will yet farther shew it to be so 2. I do it at this time because at this time you have the Confidence to deny it nay to charge us with Calumny and Misrepresentation for having ever accused you of it So that your wise Question is in effect but this We the Vindicators and Representers of New Popery have publickly exposed you to the World as a pack of Knaves that have misrepresented our Doctrine and wherefore do you go about to vindicate your selves and not suffer us to make silly People believe in quiet that what we say is true 13. Ibid. Reply Where say you do I find any thing of this in the 39 Articles and for the Book of Homilies I must be little versed in our own Doctrine not to know that several eminent Divines of our own Church do not allow that Book to contain in every part of it the dogmatical Doctrine of the Church of England Thus T. G. speaks into your Mouth and you as his Engine eccho them to us T. G's first Answer to Dr. St. Pref. p. 8 9. Answ Now to this you should have known that Dr St. gave this Answer Answer to several late Treatises by Dr. Still Lond. 1673. The general Preface That the Articles of our Church have confirm'd those Homilies That these Articles were not only allow'd and approved by the Queen but subscribed by the whole Clergy in Convocation Anno. 1571. Now says the Dean I desire T. G. to resolve me whether Men of any common understanding would have subscribed to this Book of Homilies in this manner if they had believed the main Doctrine and design of one of them had been false and pernicious as they must have done if they had thought the Practice of the Roman Church to be free from Idolatry I will put the Case that any of the Bishops then had thought that the Charge of Idolatry had been unjust and that it had subverted the Foundation of Ecclesiastical Authority that there could have been no Church or Right of Ordination if the Roman Church had been guilty of Idolatry would they have inserted this into the Articles when it was in their power to have left it out And that the Homilies contain'd a wholsome and Godly Doctrine which in their Consciences they believed to be false and pernicious I might as well think that the Council of Trent would have allow'd Calvin's Institutions as containing a wholsome and Godly Doctrine as that Men so perswaded would have allow'd it the Homily against the Peril of Idolatry 14. For your Objection from * T. G 's first Answer to Dr. Still Pref. pag.
there as if they were now present with him and accordingly he Apostrophe's the City Jerusalem p. 426. The whole Catholick Church p. 428. A. All the People of God ibid. B. The Blessed Virgin ibid. C. Holy Simeon p. 429. B. And so concludes all joyning with that Blessed Man in his Address to our Saviour Christ And tho his Expressions may be very high as the whole Sermon is yet we cannot but think it very unreasonable to conclude the dogmatical Sense of the Church from the Rhetorical flights of a single Man were the Piece otherwise never so Genuine But indeed it is worthily rejected for the reasons before mentioned by the Learned Criticks both of your and our Communion 66. This then is the sum of your Arguments to Establish this Practice in the first three Centuries Were it necessary after what has been done by so many better hands to recount the Opinions of those Holy Fathers as to this Point I should certainly be able to make some better Proof of the Antiquity of our praying to God only than you have been able to do of your Addressing to the Blessed Virgin and to the Saints 67. In the Epistle of the Church of Smyrna concerning the death of Polycarp Anno 167. we find that the Jews had perswaded the Heathens that if they suffer'd the Christians to have the body of that Holy Martyr they would leave Christ to Worship Polycarp Apud Euseb Eccles Hist lib. iv c. 15. p. 109. B. Ed. 2. Vales Paris 1678. Not knowing says that Letter that it is not possible for us to leave Christ who hath suffer'd for the Salvation of all those that are saved in the World nor to serve or religiously Adore any other For as for Jesus Christ We Adore Him as being the Son of God. But as for the Martyrs we love them as the Disciples and Imitators of the Lord. And that very justly considering their insuperable Zeal which they bore to their King and Master and God grant that we may be both the Disciples of their Piety and partakers of their Glory 68. This is indeed the true Spirit of Christianity and the exact account of the Honour we now pay to the Saints We Adore only our Saviour Christ as the Son of God Edit Usser and therefore as the Ancient Latin Translation of this Letter reads it we pray to no other But for the Saints we Love and Honour them we recite and magnifie their noble Acts We encourage our selves by their Examples to the like performances as those who earnestly desire to be partakers of their Glory This is all the Honour they are now capable of receiving and this was all that the Primitive Church in those best Ages was ever known to have given to them Irenaeus lib. ii c. 57. p. 218. Ed. Paris 1675. 69. The Church of Christ says Irenaeus does nothing by the Invocation of Angels nor by any other perverse Curiosity but by addressing her Prayers purely and only and openly to the Lord who has made all things 70. * In Rom. l. viii c. 10. Tertull. de Orat. cap. 1. Cypr. de Orat Dom. Origen tell us that to Invocate the Lord and to Adore God are the same thing So do Tertullian and Cyprian using the words to Pray and to Adore promiscuously in the same signification In a word this was the constant Doctrine of those first Ages and I will chuse to deliver it in the words of that Father whom you have especially alledged to the contrary We Worship says †Orig. contr Cels lib. viii pag. 386. Ed. Cantabr anno 1658. Origen the one only God and his one only Son and Word and Similitude with our utmost Supplications and Honours bringing our Prayers to the God of all things through his only begotten Son * Ibid. 395. We must pray to God only who is over all and to his only begotten Son the first born of every Creature and beseech Him as our High-Priest to carry our Prayers which we make to Him to his God and our God to his Father and the Father of all those that live according to the Word of God. (a) Ibid. pag. 400. This is our Profession of Faith which we constantly maintain as long as we live by the blessing of God and of his only Son Jesus Christ who was manifested amongst us As for the favour of others if that be to be look'd after We know that thousands of thousands stand before him and ten thousand times ten thousand minister unto Him. These as our Brethren and Friends when they see us imitating their Piety towards God work together to the Salvation of those that CALL UPON GOD and PRAY as they OUGHT to do 71. I will add but one Testimony more in a matter both so plain in its self Novatian de Trinitate c. xiii p. 17. A. Ibid. C. D. ad fin Tertull. Paris 1675. and so often insisted upon by others and it is of Novatian proving the Divinity of Christ from the Churches praying to him For none but God says he knows the Secrets of the Heart as our Saviour did If Christ be only a Man how is He every where present to those that Call upon him Seeing this is not the Nature of a Man but of God to be able to be present in every place If Christ be only Man why is a Man called upon as a Mediator in Prayers seeing the calling upon a Man is judged of no value to give Salvation If Christ be only Man why is any Hope put in Him seeing that Hope is represented as Accursed that is placed in Man 72. Such was the Opinion of the Church in the first three Centuries As for that extraordinary discovery you are pleased next to make Reply p. 19. §. 14. That all you do in your Liturgies is to beg of God to hear the Prayers of his Saints and that for this you are able to furnish Me with many Examples out of the ancient Liturgies and Fathers within the first 100 Years it is so false an Assertion and so vain an Undertaking that either you must be ignorant even to astonishment both in the Doctrine of your own Church and in the Acts of Primitive Antiquity or else most certainly you never believed either what you say or what you promise 73. But tho you are not then able to answer my Challenge of producing any Warrant from the Fathers of the first 300 years for this Doctrine and Practice it may be you are able at least to answer my Presumption from those times against it viz. That those Fathers did not believe that the Souls of the Just went streight to Heaven and therefore by your own Principles could not have believed that they ought to be prayed to as there 74. Reply To this you say Reply p. 15. §. 12. That you are not bound to defend every Argument that Bellarmine and Suarez bring especially when Others of your Writers think them
unconclusive In short you cannot deny the matter of Fact tho you would be thought to suppose rather than allow it to be true And all you have to say is That whatever they believed besides sure you are they did pray to the Saints 75. Answ That the Fathers about the latter end of the IV. Century began to Invocate the Saints we do not deny tho' it were rather in the way of a Rhetorical Compellation than of a formal Address And if herein they contradicted any other of their Principles we know they were but Men and as such might possibly in their Religious heats do some things not entirely consonant to themselves in their Cooler hours Now then taking it for granted that those Fathers I heretofore mentioned did teach that the Saints departed do not yet enjoy the Beatifick Vision I say with those great Men of your Church whom you here forsake that they could not reasonably pray to them Since it is upon this Vision especially that you found your Opinion of that particular knowledge you suppose they Ordinarily and Constantly have of those things that are done here below and without which it would be Vain and Absurd to call upon them And therefore tho you have no regard to Bellarmine's or Suarez's Authority yet for the sake of Sense and Reason answer their Arguments and tell us a little upon your own Principles how those Fathers could think the Saints were fit to be pray'd to if by denying them to be yet in Heaven they by consequence must have deny'd them to have any ordinary and certain knowledge of what is done here upon Earth Reply p. 16. 76. Reply But Sixtus Senensis you say after all concludes That those Fathers do not intend to exclude the Saints departed from the Beatifick Vision but only from that Perfect Happiness which we shall enjoy after the Resurrection And it would have been much more Christian-like in Me to have imitated his Example than to argue as I do against their Praying to Saints from this Principle 77. Answ Had I been crampt as he was with a Defininimus of my Church I might possibly have been tempted to make Excuses for those Fathers as he did But a Man need only look upon their Words as they are cited by him to see how little such shuffling will avail to reduce their Doctrine to your Pretences And the truth is this Sixtus Senensis was so Honest as to confess tho you were not so Honest as to take notice of it For having offer'd that Exposition of their Words which you mention he immediately subjoins Thus says he have I interpreted the Expressions of S. Ambrose Austin and Chrysostome But if there be some Sayings of the Holy Authors which CANNOT suffer such an Interpretation yet we should at least remember that this ERROUR ought not to prejudice the Learning and Piety of such Illustrious Fathers seeing the Church in their time had not yet determined any thing Certain to be believed in this Matter Thus Sixtus Senensis ingenuously confessing how the Case stood And this you cannot be presumed not to have seen in him seeing they are in the very same place with what you transcribed from him And what then must I think of such a One as values not how he reports things so he may but by any means seem to say somewhat tho he knows at the same time that he cannot expect long to triumph in his Unsincerity 78. And now there is but one thing more remaining to get over this unlucky Period of the First 300 Years Reply p. 18. sect 14. Reply For what if the few Writings of the Ancients of the First 300 Years which remain be silent in this Particular does it follow that they approved not the Practice Answ No Sir this in not the Case We do not pretend to a bare Silence of those Holy Fathers but we produce their express Authorities against you And that I hope is a good Argument that our Possession is at least 300 Years better than yours and that you not we have been Innovators in this Particular 79. Reply Ibid. Had this Custom of Praying to Saints been only introduc'd in the Fourth Age and been so dangerous as Moderns would persuade the World that it is certainly the succeeding General Councils would have taken notice of it or some One of the Fathers would have written against it But on the contrary we find the Fourth General Council allowing this Invocation in the Third Person Let Flavian the Martyr Pray for us 80. Answ To your Instance from the Fourth General Council I reply That besides that you your self confess that it is nothing to the purpose there being a mighty difference between wishing that the Saints would pray for us and praying to the Saints for their Aid and Succour you should have known that this Council was held in the middle of the Fâ—â—th Age and so is without the compass of what I am here to consider 81. But I will go yet farther with you as to this Instance and to that end I must tell you that your Authors have very much deceived you in their Accounts of it For first It was not the Synod but only a Party in that Synod that cry'd out Let Flavian the Martyr pray for us And secondly Even they that did cry out thus were as far from designing to pray to Flavian at all as you were from understanding the meaning of their Exclamation Labbé Conc. Tom. iv Act. xi p. 697. B. The Occasion of those Words in short was this In the Eleventh and Twelfth Actions of that Council there arose a difficult Debate concerning Bassianus and Stephanus whether of the two was lawful Bishop of Ephesus Bassian had this Plea That he had held it quietly Four years that Proclus and his Successors Bishops of Constantinople had communicated with him as lawful Bishop of that See among whom was Flavianus but lately deceased Upon this the Fathers that were of Bassianus Party urged to the Synod that Flavian by communicating with him had acknowledged him to be lawful Bishop of Ephesus And thereupon press the Holy Bishops to have this respect to Flavian a Catholick and Martyr as to acknowledge Bassianus to be the true Bishop seeing he had Communicated with him as such And here comes in among other Expressions this that is the Subject of our present Debate The Bishops and Clergy of Constantinople cry out in Honour of their late Martyr This is the truth this we all say Let the Memory of Flavian be eternal let the Memory of the Orthodox Flavian be eternal Flavian lives after his Death Let the Martyr pray or entreat for us Flavian judges with us This was the Occasion of those words and it plainly shews that all they meant by them was That the Judgment of Flavian a Holy Bishop and Martyr should prevail with the Synod to judge of Bassianus side with whom He had Communicated 82. As for your Argument That had
have not believed were not men willing to be contentious might End the Controversie And for the Authority you speak of that it was rediculous to pretend prescription for that which has not the least foundation neither in Holy Writ nor in Primitive Christianity of which not one instance appears for the first Three Hundred years after Christ and much to the contrary 103. Reply p. 21. §. 16. To this you now reply in your Margin with great Assurance Protestants destitute of Scripture Proofs against the Doctrine of Invocation of Saints But all you have to say in the Book is That you do not give Divine Worship to the Saints nor call upon them in that strict sense in which they are Duties only to be paid to God. That is to say you play with Words and make use of such distinctions as if they were allowed a man might evacuate any other of Gods Commands without a possibility of being confuted And I desire you to tell me what answer you would make an Impudent Woman that should give her Husbands Bed to another and being charged by you for breaking the Seventh Commandment should tell you that you were not to be so uncharitable as to judge of what she did by the External Act that the Law forbad only lying with another man as with her Husband and that in this strict sense she was still Innocent by reserving that highest Degree of Conjugal affection to him only the giving whereof to another would make her guilty 104. But since you are so desirous to know what our Reasons against this Invocation are I will now very freely lay them before you if you will first give me leave only to prepare the way for them by stating truly the difference between us in this matter which you are wonderfully apt either to mistake or to palliate 105. You tell us in your Vindication Vind. p. 30. Repl. p. 11. Expos Sect. IV. p. 5. Papist Rept N. 2. p. 2. That All you say is that it is lawful to pray to the Saints and so again in your Reply The difference you say between us is Whether it be lawful for us to beseech or intreat them to pray for us Monsieur de Meaux in the same moderate way tells us that the Church teaches that it is profitable to pray to the Saints And the Representer from the Council of Trent says of a true Papist That his Church teaches him and he believes that it is Good and profitable to desire the intercession of the Saints reigning with Christ in Heaven In your Discourses with those of our Communion there is nothing more Ordinary with you than to make them believe that you value not praying to the Saints nor Condemn any for not doing it That if this be all they scruple in your Religion they shall be received freely by you and never pray to a Saint as long as they live Nay I have heard of some who have gone so far in this matter as to venture their Religion upon it that you do not necessarily require the practise or profession of this service at all nor pronounce any Anathema against us for opposing of it 106. But this is not ingenuous nor as becomes the Disciples of Christ For tell me now I beseech you If we unite our selves to your Church will you not oblige us to go to Mass with you Or can you dare for our sakes to alter your Service and leave out all those things that relate to the Blessed Virgin and to the Saints in it Shall we be excused from having any thing to do with your Litanies and Processions your Vespers or your Salves Or will you purge all these too in Order to our Conversion When we lie in our last Agonies will you be content to Anoint us in the Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost and leave the Angels Arch-Angels Patriarchs Prophets and Apostles Martyrs Confessors Virgins and all the Saints out of the Commission And when our Souls are now expiring shall we be sure you will not then at least trouble us with that long Beadroll which your Office prescribes to be call'd upon in that Ceremony If you have indeed the Liberty to do this why do ye not use it and remove so great a stumbling block as this out of our way But if you cannot dispense with these things for our common Conversion how shall we believe that you can do it to satisfie a private Proselyte 107. The truth is Invocation of Saints in your Church is not esteemed so indifferent a matter as you would have it thought to be It is a Worship you suppose due to them And to which they acquire a right by their Canonization So Cardinal Bellarmine informs us And therefore in your Profession of Faith set forth by the order of Pope Pius IVth you are obliged with a firm Faith to believe and profess that the Saints who reign together with Christ are to be Venerated and Invoked And tho the Alarm which the Council of Trent was in upon the News of the Popes sickness and the haste which thereupon they made to conclude that Synod permitted them not to frame any Canons in this last as they had done in the other Sessions yet the materials put together in the Chapter shews us what Anathema's would have been thunder'd against us Concil Trid. Sess 25. For to take it only as it lies in that Session There we find the Bishops and Pastors of the Church commanded to teach what therefore I hope is undoubtedly the Churches sense in this point That the Saints who Reign together with Christ offer up their Prayers to God for Men That it is Good and Profitable in a suppliant manner to call upon them And that for the obtaining benefits of God by his Son Jesus Christ our Lord who is our only Saviour and Redeemer we should flie to their Prayers Aid and Assistance They declare that those who deny which you know we all do that the Saints who enjoy Eternal Happiness in Heaven are not to be invoked or say that this Invocation is Idolatry as we generally believe it to be or that it is contrary to the Word of God or derogatory to the Honour of the One Mediator between God and Man Christ Jesus or that it is foolish to supplicate those who Reign in Heaven in word or in mind do think WICKEDLY 108. These are the words of your Council If therefore you permit your Prosolytes to profess what they do not believe if you receive those as good Catholicks into your Church whom nevertheless you know to remain still infected with wicked Opinions contrary to the Doctrine and Practise established amongst you If you allow them to assist at your prayers without any intention to joyn in them nay in an Opinion that they could not pray with you without committing a grievous sin Then go on to make folks believe as you do that you oblige no body to pray to the Saints
what great diversity of Opinions there has been in stating of that Worship which is paid by you to Images and what difficulty you have found to defend your practice against that Charge of Idolatry we have so justly brought against you upon the account of it How the Caution of some and the distinctions of others amongst you have been branded by the rest as Scandalous and Erroneous and one forced to abjure as Heretical what others have set up as the only true Exposition and Representation of the Churches sense And this you will give me leave the rather to remark because you are so often pleased to reflect upon our divisions which yet are neither so frequent nor dangerous as among you who pretend not only to Truth but Infallibility in all you believe And if the consequence you are wont from thence to draw against us That because we differ in some things therefore we have no certainty in any be good as you say it is you may now see that it will equally fall upon your selves too and by so much the more heavily by how much your pretences in this matter are greater than ours But 29. Secondly Tho there be then such a diversity of Opinions amongst you as to this Worship yet it is to be remarked that they who have allow'd the least Honour to Images Capisucchi Ib. pag. 605. have yet still confest that some Honour was due to them In this says Capisucchi all Catholicks do agree that Images are to be worshipped and are rightly worshipped by the faithful Even Durandus himself who disapproves the Images of the Holy Trinity yet allowing both the use and Worship of other Holy Images From whence therefore I conclude That those in this Cardinal's opinion are no Catholicks who tell us that All the Honour they have for them Reply Pref. p. 17 18. is only such a respect as they pay to any other Sacred Vtensils That if they seem to act in their presence some external signs of Veneration this is meant ONLY to the persons whom they represent but NOT to the Images themselves which can claim NOTHING of that KIND from us In short as Monsieur de Meaux expounds it That they do NOT WORSHIP the Images No GOD FORBID but ONLY make use of them to call to mind the Originals The Council of Trent teaches NO OTHER USE of them 30. Thirdly It may from hence farther appear that the Worship which this Cardinal thought due to Images was not an improper accidental abusive Worship but a true proper and real Adoration the Image being to be adored in the very same act with which the Exemplar was So that now according to this Exposition the Cross of Christ is to be worshipped truly and properly with a Supreme Divine Adoration And that not only as to the outward acts but by the inward sense of the Soul too all which are so to be paid to Christ as to terminate at once both upon him and upon the Crucifix by which he is to be adored And this 31. Fourthly We are to look upon not as a private opinion or a meer Scholastick Nicety but as the true and proper sense of the Church and to be held of all So the Cardinal expresly declares as being the Doctrine of the Councils both of Nice and Trent and for denying of which Aegidius Magistralis was by the Inquisition forced to recant and renounce his Doctrine contrary thereunto as Heretical 32. This is an Instance which with Card. Capisucchi I will take the liberty to recommend to your consideration For certainly if what he says be true you who deny that the Cross is upon any account whatsoever to be worshipped with Divine Worship Reply Pref. can be no otherwise than a downright Heretick And tho you are at present secure in a happy Expounding Country where you may safely make what representation of your Doctrine you please or rather that the necessity of your present circumstances moves you to do without any other danger than that of losing your credit with honest and inquisitive men which you do not seem much to value yet should time and other circumstances invite you hereafter into a hotter Climate you might run some worser hazards among those who have not given themselves up to follow your Innovations Relation del ' Inquisition de Goa pag. 14 15. cap. 2 21. cap. 3. It happened not many years since that a French Gentleman being travelling in the East-Indies fell into some company at Goa and there discoursing about matters of Religion according to your Principles maintain'd That the Crucifix was no otherwise to be adored than by reporting all the Honour to our Saviour Christ represented by that Image And another time he fortuned to say of an Ivory Crucifix which hung up at his Beds-head that it was onely a piece of Ivory For this he was clapt into the Inquisition and after some years imprisonment for his Heretical Sayings hardly escaped the fire with this Sentence that He was declared Excommunicate Ibid. cap. 27. pag. 151 152. Edit Leyd 1687. that for reparation of his fault all his Goods should he confiscated Himself banish'd the Indies and condemn'd to serve in the Galleys or publick Prisons of Portugal five years and further accomplish those Other Penances which should more particularly be enjoin'd Him by the Inquisitors As for his Crime it is thus set forth in the Preamble to his Sentence That he had said that we ought NOT to ADORE IMAGES and had BLASPHEMED against that of a certain Crucifix by saying of a Crucifix of Ivory that it was a piece of Ivory 33. This was plain dealing and a sensible conviction that it is not meerly a Scholastick Nicety with the Fathers of the Inquisition ' that the CROSS is to be worshipped with DIVINE WORSHIP The truth is the contrary Opinion of Durandus Holcot Mirandula and some others and who allow'd all the Acts of external Honour to be paid to them only they deni'd them that inward Veneration which makes it properly a religious Worship has been always esteemed as false and scandalous and savouring of Heresie and is expresly censured as such by those great Men Suarez Medina Victoria Catherine Arriaga Cabrera Raphael de Turre Vellosillus and many others at large collected by Cardinal Capisucchi on this occasion as Abettors with himself of a true Divine Adoration to be paid to the Holy Cross and other Images of God and the Blessed Trinity I go on finally from these Principles 34. Thirdly To vindicate the Account I have heretofore given of your Practices in consequence to this Doctrine And first I observed that in the solemn Procession made at the reception of the Emperor the Legat's Cross is appointed by the Pontifical to take place of the Emperor's Sword because LATRIA or DIVINE WORSHIP is due to it 35. This you cannot deny to be faithfully quoted out of your Pontifical Reply p. 31. but you say there is