we_o shall_v come_v to_o that_o in_o time_n at_o present_a i_o pray_v clear_a this_o matter_n if_o you_o can_v p._n d._n to_o what_o purpose_n be_v all_o this_o rake_n and_o scrape_v and_o search_v and_o quote_v of_o passage_n not_o at_o all_o to_o the_o point_n of_o idolatry_n r._n p._n what!_o will_v you_o have_v a_o man_n do_v nothing_o to_o fill_v up_o a_o book_n and_o make_v it_o carry_v something_o of_o the_o port_n of_o a_o answer_n especial_o to_o a_o thick_a book_n of_o between_o 800_o and_o 900_o page_n p._n d._n if_o this_o be_v your_o design_n go_v on_o but_o i_o will_v make_v my_o answer_n as_o short_a as_o i_o can_v for_o methinks_v t._n g._n seem_v to_o have_v lose_v that_o spirit_n and_o briskness_n he_o have_v before_o for_o than_o he_o talk_v like_o a_o man_n that_o have_v a_o mind_n to_o keep_v close_o to_o the_o point_n but_o now_o he_o flag_n and_o draw_v heavy_o on_o for_o he_o repeat_v what_o he_o have_v say_v before_o for_o some_o page_n and_o then_o quote_v 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inferior_a truth_n from_o thence_o t._n g._n infer_v 1._o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v not_o err_v against_o any_o article_n of_o faith_n 2._o dr._n st._n do_v not_o believe_v the_o thirty_o nine_o article_n to_o be_v article_n of_o faith_n 3_o then_o this_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n be_v vain_a and_o groundless_a because_o idolatry_n be_v a_o error_n against_o a_o fundamental_a point_n of_o faith_n p._n d._n here_o be_v not_o one_o word_n new_a in_o all_o this_o long_a charge_n but_o a_o tedious_a repetition_n of_o what_o t._n g._n have_v say_v before_o it_o consist_v of_o two_o point_n 1._o the_o charge_n upon_o dr._n st._n for_o undermine_v the_o church_n of_o england_n 2._o the_o unreasonableness_n of_o the_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n upon_o his_o own_o supposition_n because_o t._n g._n seem_v to_o think_v there_o be_v something_o in_o this_o business_n which_o touch_v dr._n st._n to_o the_o quick_a and_o therefore_o he_o decline_v give_v any_o answer_n to_o the_o first_o part_n of_o it_o i_o will_v undertake_v to_o do_v it_o for_o he_o dr._n st._n do_v indeed_o say_v that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n do_v not_o make_v her_o article_n article_n of_o faith_n as_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v the_o article_n of_o pope_n pius_n the_o four_o his_o creed_n and_o do_v ever_o any_o divine_a of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n say_v otherwise_o it_o be_v true_a the_o church_n of_o rome_n from_o her_o insolent_a pretence_n of_o infallibility_n do_v make_v all_o thing_n propose_v by_o the_o church_n of_o equal_a necessity_n to_o salvation_n because_o the_o ground_n of_o faith_n be_v the_o church_n authority_n in_o propose_v thing_n to_o be_v believe_v but_o do_v the_o church_n of_o england_n challenge_v any_o such_o infallibility_n to_o herself_o no._n she_o utter_o disow_v it_o in_o her_o very_a article_n therefore_o she_o must_v leave_v matter_n of_o faith_n as_o she_o find_v they_o i._n e._n she_o receive_v all_o the_o creed_n into_o her_o article_n and_o office_n but_o make_v no_o addition_n to_o they_o of_o her_o own_o and_o therefore_o dr._n st._n do_v with_o great_a reason_n say_v that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n make_v no_o article_n of_o faith_n but_o such_o as_o have_v the_o testimony_n and_o approbation_n of_o the_o whole_a christian_a world_n and_o of_o all_o age_n and_o be_v acknowledge_v to_o be_v such_o by_o rome_n itself_o from_o whence_o he_o do_v just_o magnify_v the_o moderation_n of_o this_o church_n in_o comparison_n with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n r._n p._n but_o t._n g._n say_v that_o he_o have_v degrade_v the_o article_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n from_o be_v article_n of_o faith_n into_o a_o low_a class_n of_o inferior_a truth_n p._n d._n i_o perceive_v plain_o t._n g._n do_v not_o know_v what_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n mean_v according_a to_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n he_o look_v on_o all_o proposition_n make_v by_o the_o church_n as_o necessary_a article_n of_o faith_n which_o be_v the_o roman_a sense_n and_o found_v on_o the_o doctrine_n of_o infallibility_n but_o where_o the_o church_n infallibility_n be_v reject_v article_n of_o faith_n be_v such_o as_o have_v be_v think_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n by_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o christian_a world_n which_o consent_n be_v see_v in_o the_o ancient_a creed_n and_o whatever_o doctrine_n be_v not_o contain_v therein_o though_o it_o be_v receive_v as_o truth_n and_o agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n yet_o be_v not_o account_v a_o article_n of_o faith_n i._n e._n not_o immediate_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n as_o a_o point_n of_o faith_n but_o because_o of_o the_o dissension_n of_o the_o christian_a world_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n a_o particular_a church_n may_v for_o the_o preservation_n of_o her_o own_o peace_n declare_v her_o sense_n as_o to_o the_o truth_n and_o falsehood_n of_o some_o controvert_v point_n of_o religion_n and_o require_v from_o all_o person_n who_o be_v entrust_v in_o the_o office_n of_o that_o church_n a_o subscription_n to_o those_o article_n which_o do_v imply_v that_o they_o agree_v with_o the_o sense_n of_o that_o church_n about_o they_o r._n p._n but_o dr._n st._n say_v from_o archbishop_n bramhall_n that_o the_o church_n do_v not_o oblige_v any_o man_n to_o believe_v they_o but_o only_o not_o to_o contradict_v they_o and_o upon_o this_o t._n g._n triumph_n over_o dr._n st._n as_o undermine_v the_o doctrine_n and_o government_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n p._n d._n why_o not_o over_o archbishop_n bramhall_n who_o word_n dr._n st._n cite_v and_o be_v he_o a_o favourer_n of_o dissenter_n and_o a_o underminer_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n yet_o dr._n st._n himself_o in_o that_o place_n own_v a_o subscription_n to_o they_o as_o necessary_a and_o what_o do_v subscription_n imply_v less_o than_o agree_v with_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n so_o that_o he_o say_v more_o than_o archbishop_n bramhall_n do_v and_o i_o do_v not_o see_v how_o his_o word_n can_v pass_v but_o with_o this_o construction_n that_o when_o he_o say_v we_o do_v not_o oblige_v any_o man_n to_o believe_v they_o he_o mean_v as_o article_n of_o faith_n of_o which_o he_o speak_v just_a before_o but_o i_o do_v free_o yield_v that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n do_v require_v assent_n to_o the_o truth_n of_o those_o proposition_n which_o be_v contain_v in_o the_o thirty_o nine_o article_n and_o so_o do_v dr._n st._n when_o he_o say_v the_o church_n require_v subscription_n to_o they_o as_o inferior_a truth_n i._n e._n own_v they_o to_o be_v true_a proposition_n though_o not_o as_o article_n of_o faith_n but_o article_n of_o religion_n as_o our_o church_n call_v they_o r._n p._n if_o they_o be_v but_o inferior_a truth_n say_v t._n g._n be_v it_o worth_a the_o while_n to_o rend_v asunder_o the_o peace_n of_o christendom_n for_o they_o be_v not_o this_o a_o very_a reasonable_a account_n as_o i._o s._n call_v it_o of_o the_o ground_n of_o the_o protestant_a religion_n and_o a_o rare_a way_n of_o justify_v she_o from_o the_o guilt_n of_o schism_n p._n d._n t._n g._n mistake_v the_o matter_n it_o be_v not_o our_o impose_v negative_a point_n on_o other_o but_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n impose_v false_a and_o absurd_a doctrine_n for_o necessary_a article_n of_o faith_n which_o do_v break_v the_o peace_n of_o christendom_n we_o can_v have_v no_o communion_n with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n unless_o we_o own_v her_o supremacy_n her_o canon_n of_o scripture_n her_o rule_n of_o faith_n or_o the_o equality_n of_o tradition_n and_o scripture_n her_o doctrine_n of_o purgatory_n invocation_n of_o saint_n worship_n of_o image_n transubstantiation_n etc._n etc._n and_o we_o be_v require_v not_o
external_a act_n of_o worship_n belong_v to_o all_o christian_n because_o this_o sacrifice_n belong_v to_o the_o priest_n only_o to_o offer_v p._n d._n and_o what_o answer_n do_v t._n g._n give_v to_o that_o r._n p._n he_o say_v that_o nothing_o be_v more_o notorious_a than_o that_o those_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v bind_v on_o every_o sunday_n and_o holy_a day_n to_o hear_v mass._n p._n d._n to_o hear_v mass_n a_o very_a christian_a duty_n no_o doubt_n especial_o if_o they_o understand_v never_o a_o word_n of_o it_o 446._o and_o as_o diana_n say_v a_o man_n be_v not_o bind_v to_o hear_v a_o word_n that_o be_v say_v but_o what_o then_o r._n p._n by_o this_o external_a act_n he_o say_v 524._o they_o testify_v the_o unite_n their_o intention_n with_o the_o priest_n as_o the_o public_a officer_n of_o the_o church_n in_o the_o oblation_n of_o the_o sacrifice_n p._n d._n i_o have_v often_o hear_v of_o the_o skill_n you_o have_v of_o direct_v intention_n but_o i_o never_o know_v of_o this_o knack_n of_o unite_n intention_n before_o i_o know_v how_o necessary_a the_o priest_n intention_n be_v in_o your_o church_n but_o what_o if_o the_o people_n shall_v fail_v of_o unite_n their_o intention_n with_o he_o as_o they_o often_o think_v and_o talk_v of_o other_o thing_n at_o hear_v mass_n will_v it_o not_o be_v a_o sacrifice_n without_o the_o union_n of_o their_o intention_n suppose_v the_o priest_n intention_n shall_v wander_v what_o will_v the_o people_n unite_n their_o intention_n signify_v towards_o the_o sacrifice_n you_o will_v not_o say_v they_o have_v any_o power_n to_o offer_v the_o sacrifice_n therefore_o the_o act_n of_o sacrifice_v belong_v only_o to_o the_o priest_n whether_o the_o people_n intention_n be_v unite_v or_o not_o if_o the_o people_n first_o offer_v that_o which_o be_v to_o be_v sacrifice_v to_o the_o priest_n and_o then_o he_o sacrifice_v it_o in_o their_o name_n as_o among_o the_o jew_n they_o may_v be_v say_v to_o have_v a_o share_n in_o the_o sacrifice_n but_o when_o the_o sacrifice_n be_v suppose_v to_o come_v down_o from_o heaven_n upon_o the_o priest_n word_n and_o he_o do_v not_o represent_v the_o people_n but_o christ_n in_o the_o act_n of_o sacrifice_v what_o do_v the_o people_n unite_n their_o intention_n signify_v to_o the_o sacrifice_n i_o pray_v tell_v i_o in_o who_o name_n do_v the_o priest_n pretend_v to_o the_o power_n of_o offer_v up_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n in_o sacrifice_n on_o the_o altar_n the_o people_n or_o christ_n r._n p._n in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n doubtless_o for_o the_o people_n have_v no_o power_n to_o do_v it_o p._n d._n if_o they_o have_v no_o power_n to_o do_v it_o and_o all_o the_o authority_n be_v suppose_v to_o be_v derive_v from_o christ_n for_o do_v it_o what_o do_v the_o unite_n the_o people_n intention_n with_o the_o priest_n signify_v as_o to_o the_o offer_v up_o the_o sacrifice_n you_o may_v as_o well_o say_v that_o the_o jew_n under_o the_o cross_n may_v unite_v their_o intention_n to_o christ_n in_o offering_n himself_o on_o the_o cross_n to_o the_o father_n and_o so_o it_o may_v become_v their_o act_n as_o well_o as_o christ_n but_o in_o my_o mind_n your_o phrase_n of_o hear_v and_o see_v mass_n be_v much_o more_o proper_a if_o man_n be_v bind_v either_o to_o hear_v or_o see_v which_o your_o casuist_n say_v they_o be_v not_o than_o this_o of_o unite_n their_o intention_n with_o the_o priest_n which_o be_v absurd_a and_o ridiculous_a do_v t._n g._n so_o little_o consider_v the_o honour_n of_o the_o priestly_a office_n as_o to_o talk_v of_o the_o people_n unite_n their_o intention_n with_o the_o priest_n in_o the_o oblation_n of_o the_o sacrifice_n the_o next_o step_n may_v be_v that_o the_o sacrifice_a may_v depend_v on_o the_o people_n intention_n as_o well_o as_o the_o priest_n and_o what_o a_o case_n be_v you_o in_o then_o aquinas_n and_o cajetan_n be_v much_o wise_a than_o t._n g._n in_o this_o matter_n for_o they_o both_o declare_v that_o this_o sacrifice_n belong_v only_o to_o the_o priest_n and_o not_o to_o the_o people_n 205._o as_o dr._n st._n tell_v t._n g._n r._n p._n t._n g._n say_v he_o can_v find_v the_o citation_n in_o the_o place_n quote_v by_o he_o but_o he_o dare_v affirm_v that_o cajetan_a be_v not_o so_o silly_a a_o divine_a as_o to_o deny_v it_o to_o belong_v to_o the_o people_n to_o offer_v the_o sacrifice_n by_o and_o with_o the_o priest_n 525._o p._n d._n and_o i_o dare_v affirm_v cajetan_n be_v much_o wise_a than_o to_o say_v that_o the_o offer_v the_o sacrifice_n do_v in_o any_o sense_n belong_v to_o the_o people_n and_o so_o much_o t._n g._n may_v have_v find_v in_o the_o place_n cite_v by_o the_o doctor_n only_a qu._n 86._o be_v put_v for_o q._n 85._o and_o not_o as_o cajetans_n bare_a opinion_n 4._o but_o as_o the_o judgement_n of_o aquinas_n too_o he_o say_v indeed_o that_o the_o priest_n do_v offer_v the_o sacrifice_n for_o themselves_o and_o other_o but_o he_o be_v not_o so_o silly_a to_o imagine_v that_o they_o be_v to_o unite_v their_o intention_n with_o the_o priest_n in_o the_o oblation_n but_o that_o expression_n only_o show_v for_o who_o sake_n and_o not_o in_o who_o name_n the_o sacrifice_n be_v offer_v for_o there_o be_v other_o sacrifice_n say_v he_o which_o every_o one_o may_v offer_v for_o himself_o and_o those_o say_v cajetan_n be_v spiritual_a sacrifice_n of_o devotion_n and_o virtue_n but_o for_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o altar_n that_o belong_v only_o to_o the_o priest_n and_o officer_n of_o the_o church_n r._n p._n but_o the_o very_a mass-book_n call_v it_o meum_fw-la ac_fw-la vestrum_fw-la sacrificium_fw-la and_o desire_v god_n to_o accept_v it_o for_o all_o those_o pro_fw-la quibus_fw-la tibi_fw-la offerimus_fw-la vel_fw-la qui_fw-la tibi_fw-la offerunt_fw-la hoc_fw-la sacrificium_fw-la p._n d._n i_o will_v tell_v you_o the_o mystery_n of_o this_o business_n and_o so_o put_v a_o end_n to_o this_o long_a conference_n it_o be_v the_o ancient_a custom_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n as_o well_o as_o other_o for_o the_o communicant_n to_o make_v a_o oblation_n of_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n at_o the_o altar_n of_o which_o they_o be_v afterward_o to_o partake_v this_o i_o prove_v from_o the_o sacramentary_a of_o s._n gregory_n publish_v by_o pamelius_n 178._o where_o it_o be_v say_v while_o the_o offertory_n be_v sing_v i._n e._n the_o anthem_n then_o use_v the_o oblation_n be_v make_v by_o the_o people_n and_o lay_v upon_o the_o altar_n that_o they_o may_v be_v consecrate_v and_o the_o ordo_fw-la romanus_n declare_v these_o oblation_n to_o be_v the_o bread_n and_o wine_n of_o which_o it_o add_v 27._o that_o the_o archdeacon_n take_v as_o much_o and_o lay_v upon_o the_o altar_n as_o will_v serve_v for_o the_o people_n that_o be_v to_o communicate_v these_o oblation_n continue_v in_o the_o church_n a_o long_a time_n 50._o and_o be_v enforce_v by_o canon_n and_o constitution_n when_o the_o people_n begin_v to_o slacken_v in_o their_o devotion_n 162._o upon_o which_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n think_v fit_a to_o bring_v in_o the_o use_n of_o wafer_n instead_o of_o common_a bread_n and_o so_o these_o oblation_n grow_v into_o disuse_n or_o be_v turn_v into_o offering_n of_o money_n instead_o of_o they_o sirmondus_n and_o card._n 8._o bona_n have_v prove_v beyond_o all_o dispute_n that_o the_o ancient_a latin_a church_n do_v use_v common_a and_o leaven_a bread_n in_o the_o eucharist_n that_o be_v offer_v by_o the_o people_n till_o a_o thousand_o year_n after_o christ._n but_o then_o the_o doctrine_n of_o transubstantiation_n come_v into_o the_o roman_a church_n it_o be_v no_o long_o think_v fit_a that_o the_o bread_n which_o be_v to_o be_v turn_v into_o the_o son_n of_o god_n shall_v be_v make_v after_o a_o common_a manner_n or_o with_o the_o unsanctified_a hand_n of_o the_o laity_n but_o by_o those_o who_o do_v attend_v upon_o the_o altar_n remember_v what_o the_o good_a woman_n tell_v gregory_n i._o that_o she_o wonder_v that_o the_o bread_n which_o she_o make_v with_o she_o own_o hand_n shall_v be_v call_v the_o body_n of_o jesus_n christ_n 41._o which_o the_o people_n have_v more_o reason_n to_o do_v when_o they_o come_v to_o define_v the_o manner_n of_o the_o presence_n as_o they_o do_v about_o this_o time_n although_o it_o be_v not_o make_v a_o article_n of_o faith_n till_o afterward_o from_o hence_o the_o dispute_n begin_v between_o the_o greek_n and_o latin_n about_o unleavened_a bread_n and_o from_o henceforward_o the_o custom_n of_o oblation_n for_o the_o service_n of_o the_o altar_n decline_v and_o be_v only_o keep_v up_o on_o some_o particular_a solemnity_n as_o canonization_n of_o saint_n inauguration_n of_o prince_n consecration_n of_o bishop_n marriage_n and_o funeral_n however_o the_o
and_o why_o shall_v we_o suppose_v any_o subscriber_n to_o take_v they_o in_o any_o other_o sense_n than_o the_o church_n do_v then_o mean_v they_o nay_o dr._n st._n challenge_v he_o to_o produce_v any_o one_o divine_a of_o our_o church_n who_o through_o the_o long_a reign_n of_o q._n elizabeth_n do_v so_o much_o as_o once_o question_v the_o truth_n of_o this_o charge_n do_v t._n g._n upon_o so_o long_a consideration_n of_o this_o matter_n name_v any_o r._n p._n not_o any_o that_o i_o find_v p._n d._n but_o that_o will_v be_v best_a see_v by_o consider_v dr._n st.'s_n second_o argument_n of_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n in_o this_o matter_n viz._n from_o the_o current_a doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n ever_o since_o the_o reformation_n the_o injunction_n of_o edw._n 6._o of_o cranmer_n of_o q._n elizabeth_n the_o form_n of_o thanksgiving_n a._n d._n 1594._o r._n p._n to_o this_o t._n g._n answer_n 17._o that_o this_o be_v a_o heat_n in_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o reformation_n but_o after_o the_o crown_n be_v settle_v upon_o k._n james_n who_o title_n be_v unquestionable_a both_o at_o rome_n at_o home_n i_o suppose_v he_o mean_v and_o abroad_o the_o dangerous_a consequence_n of_o the_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n begin_v to_o be_v more_o calm_o and_o mature_o consider_v and_o be_v so_o thorough_o weigh_v in_o the_o time_n of_o k._n charles_n i._o that_o as_o heylin_n say_v bishop_n laud_n hinder_v the_o reprint_v the_o book_n contain_v calvinian_a doctrine_n which_o evident_o show_v say_v he_o that_o that_o party_n never_o look_v upon_o the_o expression_n of_o idolatry_n contain_v in_o those_o injunction_n as_o the_o dogmatical_a sense_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n p._n d._n a_o very_a likely_a story_n that_o our_o church_n shall_v vary_v in_o its_o doctrine_n because_o k._n james_n his_o title_n to_o the_o crown_n be_v unquestionable_a it_o seem_v before_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v guilty_a of_o idolatry_n because_o q._n elizabeth_n title_n be_v not_o own_v by_o the_o pope_n what_o a_o fine_a insinuation_n be_v couch_v under_o all_o this_o viz._n that_o our_o church_n depend_v whole_o on_o the_o queen_n pleasure_n and_o fit_v her_o doctrine_n to_o serve_v she_o turn_v and_o when_o that_o be_v over_o the_o tide_n turn_v and_o that_o be_v pernicious_a doctrine_n now_o which_o be_v wholesome_a before_o and_o wholesome_a now_o which_o be_v pernicious_a before_o and_o yet_o there_o be_v the_o same_o article_n the_o same_o homily_n the_o same_o subscription_n which_o be_v before_o r._n p._n but_o he_o quote_v a_o doctor_n of_o your_o own_o church_n for_o what_o he_o say_v p._n heylin_n and_o deliver_v it_o in_o his_o word_n p._n d._n p._n heylin_n speak_v not_o one_o word_n in_o that_o place_n of_o the_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n ed._n although_o t._n g._n seem_v to_o represent_v it_o so_o but_o of_o those_o who_o revile_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n itself_o and_o all_o the_o divine_a office_n ceremony_n and_o performance_n of_o it_o which_o it_o be_v plain_a he_o there_o speak_v of_o the_o genevian_a party_n for_o but_o just_a before_o he_o mention_n the_o geneva_n bible_n and_o the_o dangerous_a position_n contain_v in_o the_o annotation_n print_v with_o it_o now_o these_o person_n who_o he_o there_o speak_v of_o look_v upon_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n as_o a_o mere_a synagogue_n of_o satan_n and_o no_o true_a church_n and_o all_o the_o office_n and_o ceremony_n of_o it_o to_o be_v so_o defile_v that_o no_o use_n can_v be_v make_v of_o they_o and_o on_o that_o account_n they_o reject_v our_o liturgy_n and_o ceremony_n as_o take_v from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n although_o therefore_o say_v he_o q._n elizabeth_n may_v suffer_v such_o thing_n to_o be_v print_v in_o her_o time_n yet_o b._n laud_n will_v not_o allow_v the_o reprint_n of_o they_o because_o q._n elizabeth_n may_v out_o of_o state_n policy_n suffer_v the_o violent_a transport_n of_o irregular_a zeal_n by_o reason_n of_o her_o personal_a quarrel_n with_o the_o pope_n yet_o now_o those_o reason_n be_v over_o b._n laud_n will_v not_o suffer_v they_o to_o come_v abroad_o again_o but_o that_o this_o expression_n can_v be_v understand_v of_o the_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n i_o prove_v by_o these_o argument_n 1._o pet._n heylin_n himself_o preach_v before_o k._n charles_n i._n and_o archbishop_n laud_n do_v in_o plain_a term_n charge_v the_o worship_n of_o image_n with_o most_o gross_a idolatry_n as_o appear_v by_o the_o word_n cite_v at_o large_a in_o dr._n st.'s_n general_a preface_n what_o say_v t._n g._n to_o this_o r._n p._n i_o do_v not_o find_v a_o particular_a answer_n to_o this_o but_o i_o suppose_v he_o reckon_v he_o with_o those_o six_o of_o who_o he_o say_v 3â—_n that_o they_o do_v not_o charge_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n itself_o but_o the_o opinion_n of_o school_n divine_v and_o abuse_n in_o practice_n p._n d._n that_o can_v be_v for_o pet._n heylin_n go_v far_a say_v that_o they_o who_o observe_v the_o manner_n of_o their_o worship_n of_o image_n with_o what_o pilgrimage_n procession_n offering_n with_o what_o affection_n prayer_n and_o humble_a bend_n of_o the_o body_n they_o have_v be_v and_o be_v worship_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n may_v very_o easy_o conceive_v that_o she_o be_v once_o again_o relapse_v into_o her_o ancient_a paganism_n r._n p._n he_o say_v they_o may_v conceive_v so_o but_o he_o do_v not_o say_v they_o may_v just_o conceive_v so_o p._n d._n this_o be_v very_o subtle_a and_o like_o t._n g._n himself_o but_o i_o pray_v observe_v p._n heylin_n when_o he_o give_v a_o account_n of_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n say_v when_o the_o doctrine_n which_o first_o begin_v in_o the_o school_n come_v to_o its_o growth_n what_o fruit_n can_v it_o bear_v but_o most_o gross_a idolatry_n great_a than_o which_o be_v never_o know_v among_o the_o gentile_n mark_v that_o for_o your_o satisfaction_n what_o fruit_n can_v the_o doctrine_n bear_v and_o that_o after_o it_o 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bear_v of_o the_o virgin_n by_o a_o new_a and_o extravagant_a supposition_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v the_o medium_n of_o unite_n two_o real_a body_n of_o christ_n viz._n of_o his_o flesh_n and_o of_o his_o church_n and_o therefore_o that_o must_v be_v a_o real_a body_n of_o christ_n too_o which_o be_v so_o remote_a from_o justify_v paschasius_fw-la his_o doctrine_n that_o cellotius_n himself_o be_v ashamed_a of_o he_o this_o same_o doctrine_n of_o rabanus_n and_o ratramnus_n be_v express_o own_a by_o the_o saxon_a homily_n which_o deny_v the_o sacrament_n to_o be_v a_o mere_a commemoration_n according_a to_o the_o opinion_n of_o joh._n erigena_n but_o say_v that_o after_o consecration_n the_o bread_n become_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n after_o a_o spiritual_a and_o mystical_a manner_n and_o in_o the_o saxon_a code_n of_o canon_n it_o be_v express_o determine_v not_o to_o be_v that_o body_n of_o christ_n which_o suffer_v on_o the_o cross._n and_o this_o i_o assert_v to_o be_v the_o 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assert_v by_o the_o church_n of_o england_n nor_o to_o leave_v nothing_o but_o pure_a zuinglianism_n in_o the_o place_n of_o it_o r._n p._n i_o be_v afraid_a of_o a_o paradox_n and_o it_o appear_v not_o without_o reason_n for_o i_o never_o meet_v with_o any_o one_o yet_o who_o explain_v the_o doctrine_n of_o bertram_n and_o the_o church_n of_o england_n after_o this_o manner_n and_o all_o that_o attempt_v it_o talk_v so_o in_o the_o cloud_n that_o transubstantiation_n itself_o do_v not_o seem_v more_o hard_a to_o understand_v but_o i_o remember_v pet._n de_fw-fr marca_n have_v prove_v that_o the_o book_n of_o bertram_n be_v the_o same_o which_o be_v write_v by_o joh._n scotus_n and_o therefore_o your_o hypothesis_n be_v utter_o overthrow_v p._n d._n i_o have_v read_v and_o consider_v that_o faint_a attempt_n of_o that_o great_a man_n which_o seem_v to_o be_v design_v for_o no_o other_o end_n but_o to_o make_v we_o believe_v that_o bertram_n book_n be_v burn_v for_o heretical_a at_o the_o synod_n of_o vercelles_n but_o if_o any_o one_o will_v impartial_o consider_v the_o book_n of_o bertram_n and_o compare_v it_o with_o the_o account_n give_v of_o the_o opinion_n of_o joh._n scotus_n by_o the_o writer_n against_o berengarius_fw-la they_o will_v find_v de_fw-fr marca_n opinion_n without_o the_o least_o colour_n of_o probability_n r._n p._n but_o card._n perron_n mauguin_n cellotius_n and_o arnaud_n all_o say_v that_z bertram_z in_o the_o first_o part_n dispute_v against_o the_o stercoranist_n who_o be_v a_o sort_n of_o heretic_n who_o hold_v that_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o eucharist_n be_v passable_a corruptible_a and_o digestible_a and_o in_o all_o thing_n just_a as_o the_o bread_n appear_v to_o our_o sense_n and_o assert_v that_o all_o the_o accident_n of_o the_o bread_n be_v found_v hypostatical_o in_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o not_o to_o have_v any_o proper_a subsistence_n of_o their_o own_o p._n d._n these_o be_v a_o notable_a sort_n of_o heretic_n if_o they_o can_v be_v find_v but_o it_o appear_v by_o the_o enemy_n of_o berengarius_fw-la that_o this_o opprobrious_a name_n be_v fix_v by_o they_o on_o all_o those_o who_o assert_v the_o substance_n of_o the_o bread_n to_o remain_v after_o consecration_n and_o it_o will_v be_v very_o strange_a if_o bertram_n shall_v confute_v that_o which_o himself_o assert_v for_o he_o say_v the_o sacramental_a element_n do_v pass_v into_o the_o nourishment_n of_o our_o body_n but_o if_o any_o be_v liable_a to_o this_o accusation_n it_o must_v be_v paschasius_fw-la if_o pet._n de_fw-fr marca_n observation_n of_o he_o be_v true_a that_o he_o hold_v both_o substance_n and_o quantity_n of_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n to_o be_v turn_v into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n from_o whence_o it_o follow_v that_o must_v be_v the_o subject_n of_o all_o those_o accident_n which_o be_v in_o the_o bread_n before_o which_o be_v the_o very_a sink_n of_o stercoranism_n nay_o i_o be_o very_o much_o deceive_v if_o pope_n nicholas_n 2._o in_o the_o recantation_n prescribe_v to_o berengarius_fw-la do_v not_o fall_v into_o the_o filth_n of_o it_o far_o more_o than_o rabanus_n or_o heribaldus_n for_o he_o assert_n therein_o that_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v true_o and_o sensible_o handle_v and_o break_v by_o the_o hand_n of_o priest_n and_o ground_n by_o the_o tooth_n of_o believer_n but_o what_o place_n can_v be_v fit_a for_o this_o heresy_n than_o the_o sedes_fw-la stercoraria_fw-la 1._o and_o guitmundus_n strive_v to_o help_v pope_n nicholas_n and_o his_o council_n out_o fall_v into_o the_o same_o heresy_n himself_o for_o he_o show_v that_o christ_n body_n may_v be_v handle_v and_o chew_v in_o the_o sacrament_n if_o so_o it_o must_v be_v the_o subject_n of_o the_o accident_n of_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n which_o according_a to_o perron_n and_o his_o follower_n be_v plain_a stercoranism_n r._n p._n but_o do_v not_o you_o fall_v into_o another_o heresy_n viz._n of_o impanation_n p._n d._n a_o man_n have_v need_n look_v to_o his_o word_n when_o heresy_n be_v so_o common_a and_o buzz_v so_o about_o a_o man_n ear_n and_o some_o think_v they_o confute_v a_o man_n with_o a_o vengeance_n if_o they_o can_v find_v out_o some_o heresy_n with_o a_o hard_a name_n to_o fasten_v upon_o he_o but_o if_o you_o do_v know_v wherein_o the_o heresy_n of_o impanation_n lay_v you_o will_v never_o charge_v this_o doctrine_n of_o our_o church_n with_o it_o for_o i_o find_v two_o distinct_a way_n of_o impanation_n and_o this_o doctrine_n be_v liable_a to_o neither_o of_o they_o 1._o by_o union_n of_o the_o bread_n to_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o by_o that_o to_o the_o divinity_n which_o be_v the_o way_n of_o joh._n parisiensis_fw-la 2._o by_o a_o immediate_a conjunction_n of_o the_o divine_a nature_n to_o the_o bread_n not_o mere_o by_o divine_a efficacy_n and_o power_n but_o by_o a_o hypostatical_a union_n which_o be_v the_o opinion_n not_o without_o ground_n attribute_v to_o 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his_o own_o author_n dr._n heylin_n have_v tell_v he_o who_o he_o mean_v by_o puritan_n ed._n viz._n the_o nonconformist_n for_o speak_v of_o dr._n buckeridge_n bishop_n laud_n tutor_n he_o say_v that_o he_o oppose_v the_o papist_n on_o one_o hand_n and_o on_o the_o other_o the_o puritan_n or_o nonconformist_n these_o be_v very_o pitiful_a shift_n to_o overthrow_v bishop_n abbot_n testimony_n when_o dr._n heylin_n himself_o say_v of_o he_o 66._o he_o be_v so_o moderate_a a_o calvinian_a that_o he_o incur_v the_o high_a displeasure_n of_o the_o supralapsarian_o who_o have_v till_o then_o carry_v all_o before_o they_o but_o what_o say_v t._n g._n to_o those_o who_o he_o yield_v not_o to_o have_v be_v puritanical_o incline_v and_o yet_o charge_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n with_o idolatry_n r._n p._n he_o say_v they_o do_v not_o impugn_v the_o doctrine_n itself_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n or_o the_o practice_n conformable_a to_o that_o doctrine_n but_o such_o thing_n as_o they_o 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p._n d._n let_v we_o then_o see_v what_o he_o do_v take_v notice_n of_o r._n p._n a_o very_a notable_a thing_n i_o assure_v you_o he_o say_v they_o only_o find_v fault_n with_o some_o abuse_n commit_v in_o our_o church_n 33._o and_o do_v not_o think_v man_n by_o virtue_n of_o the_o term_n of_o her_o communion_n force_v either_o to_o hypocrisy_n or_o idolatry_n as_o dr._n st._n do_v so_o that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n if_o true_o state_v out_o of_o the_o decree_n of_o her_o council_n or_o practice_n agreeable_a to_o that_o doctrine_n which_o these_o divine_n impeach_v as_o idolatrous_a but_o the_o opinion_n of_o some_o school-divines_a or_o abuse_v they_o conceive_v to_o be_v commit_v in_o the_o practice_n of_o it_o and_o for_o this_o he_o instance_v in_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a about_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n p._n d._n who_o do_v not_o know_v t._n g._n to_o be_v a_o man_n of_o art_n and_o to_o understand_v the_o way_n of_o fence_v in_o the_o school_n as_o well_o as_o another_o be_v it_o not_o skilful_o do_v in_o this_o place_n to_o run_v to_o the_o point_n of_o image_n when_o we_o have_v be_v so_o late_o upon_o the_o idolatry_n in_o adoration_n of_o the_o host_n as_o it_o be_v declare_v in_o our_o rubric_n for_o the_o constitution_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v plain_a to_o all_o person_n about_o adoration_n of_o the_o host_n at_o the_o elevation_n of_o it_o and_o carry_v it_o about_o but_o in_o the_o matter_n of_o image_n they_o endeavour_v to_o palliate_v and_o disguise_v their_o allow_a practice_n as_o much_o as_o may_v be_v i_o answer_v therefore_o on_o behalf_n of_o dr._n st._n 1._o that_o when_o he_o speak_v of_o what_o man_n be_v oblige_v to_o do_v by_o virtue_n of_o communion_n with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n he_o speak_v of_o the_o thing_n strict_o require_v by_o the_o rule_n of_o that_o church_n and_o since_o our_o church_n declare_v the_o mass_n idolatrous_a he_o do_v not_o in_o the_o least_o recede_v from_o the_o sense_n of_o our_o church_n in_o the_o disjunction_n he_o use_v either_o of_o hypocrisy_n or_o idolatry_n and_o i_o have_v some_o reason_n to_o believe_v that_o be_v the_o thing_n he_o aim_v at_o chief_o when_o he_o speak_v of_o the_o term_n of_o communion_n because_o he_o have_v often_o hear_v of_o some_o person_n who_o live_v in_o the_o communion_n of_o that_o church_n who_o be_v not_o oblige_v to_o make_v the_o same_o profession_n which_o ecclesiastical_a person_n be_v do_v content_a themselves_o with_o do_v the_o same_o external_a act_n which_o other_o do_v but_o with_o a_o very_a different_a intention_n who_o look_v upon_o transubstantiation_n and_o many_o other_o doctrine_n as_o foolish_a and_o ridiculous_a and_o yet_o think_v they_o may_v join_v with_o those_o who_o do_v believe_v they_o in_o all_o external_a act_n of_o worship_n rather_o than_o break_v the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n they_o live_v in_o such_o person_n will_v say_v they_o never_o worship_v the_o host_n and_o therefore_o excuse_v themselves_o from_o idolatry_n but_o dr._n st._n say_v they_o can_v then_o excuse_v themselves_o from_o hypocrisy_n because_o they_o seem_v to_o give_v the_o same_o worship_n which_o the_o other_o do_v 2._o as_o to_o the_o idolatry_n commit_v in_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n we_o shall_v consider_v that_o in_o its_o proper_a place_n but_o yet_o by_o virtue_n of_o communion_n with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n all_o person_n be_v 1._o bind_v to_o declare_v the_o worship_n of_o image_n lawful_a as_o it_o be_v practise_v in_o that_o church_n 2._o to_o worship_v image_n upon_o occasion_n offer_v as_o in_o procession_n etc._n etc._n 3._o to_o worship_v the_o cross_n as_o it_o represent_v christ_n with_o that_o worship_n which_o be_v proper_a to_o his_o person_n that_o which_o concern_v we_o now_o be_v to_o give_v a_o account_n of_o the_o judgement_n of_o these_o person_n how_o far_o they_o suppose_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n to_o be_v guilty_a of_o the_o idolatry_n commit_v in_o it_o as_o to_o k._n james_n we_o have_v see_v already_o how_o far_a t._n g._n be_v from_o answer_v his_o testimony_n the_o next_o be_v isabella_n casaubon_n and_o he_o say_v the_o church_n of_o england_n do_v affirm_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n to_o be_v join_v with_o great_a impiety_n so_o that_o he_o speak_v the_o sense_n of_o our_o church_n and_o not_o bare_o his_o own_o and_o sure_o when_o he_o write_v by_o k._n james_n his_o direction_n and_o order_n and_o have_v so_o great_a intimacy_n with_o bishop_n andrews_n and_o other_o learned_a man_n of_o our_o church_n he_o will_v declare_v nothing_o to_o be_v her_o sense_n which_o be_v contrary_a to_o it_o and_o as_o to_o his_o own_o private_a opinion_n i_o can_v tell_v t._n g._n somewhat_o more_o viz._n that_o when_o he_o be_v violent_o set_v upon_o by_o all_o the_o wit_n and_o industry_n of_o card._n perron_n and_o disoblige_v by_o some_o person_n of_o his_o own_o communion_n at_o paris_n he_o set_v himself_o serious_o to_o consider_v the_o term_n of_o communion_n in_o that_o church_n and_o whether_o he_o may_v with_o a_o safe_a conscience_n embrace_v it_o and_o i_o have_v see_v in_o his_o own_o hand-writing_n the_o reason_n which_o hinder_v he_o from_o it_o and_o the_o first_o of_o they_o be_v the_o fear_n of_o idolatry_n which_o he_o see_v practise_v in_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n and_o saint_n which_o be_v as_o full_a a_o proof_n as_o may_v be_v that_o he_o do_v not_o think_v any_o person_n can_v embrace_v the_o communion_n of_o that_o church_n without_o hypocrisy_n or_o idolatry_n as_o to_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n and_o saint_n the_o three_o be_v bishop_n andrews_n who_o not_o only_o charge_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n with_o idolatry_n but_o he_o say_v that_o in_o their_o breviaries_n hour_n and_o rosary_n they_o pray_v direct_o absolute_o and_o final_o to_o saint_n and_o not_o mere_o to_o the_o saint_n to_o pray_v to_o god_n for_o they_o but_o give_v what_o they_o pray_v for_o themselves_o to_o this_o t._n g._n say_v they_o profess_v they_o do_v no_o such_o thing_n as_o though_o we_o be_v inquire_v what_o they_o profess_v and_o not_o what_o bishop_n andrews_n charge_v they_o with_o if_o idolatry_n according_a to_o bishop_n andrews_n be_v require_v in_o the_o authorize_v office_n of_o devotion_n in_o their_o church_n how_o can_v the_o member_n of_o it_o be_v excuse_v either_o from_o hyocrisie_n or_o idolatry_n the_o four_o be_v dr._n field_n who_o charge_v the_o invocation_n of_o saint_n with_o such_o superstition_n and_o idolatry_n as_o can_v be_v excuse_v the_o five_o dr._n jackson_n who_o say_v the_o papist_n give_v divine_a honour_n to_o image_n the_o six_o archbishop_n laud_n who_o
christian_a trust_n his_o soul_n with_o that_o church_n which_o teach_v that_o which_o must_v needs_o be_v idolatry_n in_o all_o that_o understand_v not_o the_o figure_n 13._o there_o be_v neither_o scripture_n nor_o tradition_n for_o worship_v the_o cross_n the_o image_n and_o relic_n of_o saint_n therefore_o it_o evidence_n the_o same_o carnal_a hope_n that_o god_n will_v abate_v of_o his_o gospel_n for_o such_o bribe_n which_o be_v the_o will-worship_n of_o mass_n pilgrimage_n and_o indulgence_n to_o that_o purpose_n 14._o neither_o scripture_n nor_o tradition_n be_v there_o for_o the_o remove_n any_o soul_n out_o of_o purgatory_n unto_o the_o beatifical_a vision_n before_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n therefore_o the_o same_o carnal_a hope_n be_v see_v in_o the_o will-worship_n of_o mass_n indulgence_n pilgrimage_n and_o the_o like_a for_o that_o purpose_n and_o that_o destructive_a to_o the_o salvation_n of_o all_o that_o believe_v that_o the_o guilt_n of_o their_o sin_n be_v take_v away_o by_o submit_v to_o the_o key_n before_o they_o be_v contrite_a and_o the_o temporal_a penalty_n remain_v in_o purgatory_n pay_v by_o these_o will-worship_n 15._o both_o scripture_n and_o tradition_n condemn_v the_o depose_n of_o prince_n and_o acquit_v their_o subject_n of_o their_o allegiance_n and_o enjoin_v they_o to_o take_v arm_n for_o they_o who_o the_o pope_n substitute_n and_o this_o doctrine_n be_v not_o only_o false_a but_o in_o my_o opinion_n proper_o heresy_n yet_o practise_v by_o so_o many_o pope_n the_o church_n may_v be_v divide_v that_o salvation_n may_v be_v have_v on_o both_o side_n instance_n the_o schism_n of_o the_o pope_n the_o schism_n of_o acacius_n the_o schism_n between_o the_o greek_n and_o the_o latin_n i_o hold_v the_o schism_n for_o the_o reformation_n to_o be_v of_o this_o kind_n but_o i_o do_v not_o allow_v salvation_n to_o any_o that_o shall_v change_v have_v these_o reason_n before_o he_o though_o i_o allow_v the_o reformation_n not_o to_o be_v perfect_a in_o some_o point_n of_o less_o moment_n as_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a and_o other_o remember_v always_o that_o the_o popish_a church_n of_o england_n can_v never_o be_v canonical_o govern_v be_v immediate_o under_o the_o pope_n 16._o there_o be_v both_o scripture_n and_o tradition_n for_o the_o scripture_n and_o service_n in_o a_o know_a tongue_n and_o for_o the_o eucharist_n in_o both_o kind_n how_o then_o can_v any_o christian_a trust_n his_o soul_n with_o that_o church_n which_o have_v the_o conscience_n to_o bar_v he_o of_o such_o help_v provide_v by_o god_n these_o be_v all_o his_o own_o word_n without_o addition_n or_o alteration_n and_o what_o think_v you_o now_o of_o mr._n thorndike_n be_v this_o man_n a_o secret_a friend_n to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v you_o think_v who_o say_v so_o plain_o that_o a_o man_n can_v embrace_v the_o communion_n of_o that_o church_n without_o hazard_n of_o his_o salvation_n r._n p._n i_o do_v little_o think_v by_o the_o use_n t._n g._n on_o all_o occasion_n make_v of_o he_o that_o he_o have_v be_v a_o man_n of_o such_o principle_n but_o i_o think_v t._n g._n have_v as_o good_a have_v let_v he_o alone_o as_o have_v give_v occasion_n for_o produce_v such_o testimony_n of_o the_o thought_n which_o a_o man_n of_o his_o learning_n and_o fame_n have_v concern_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n however_o you_o see_v he_o hold_v the_o presence_n of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o eucharist_n and_o can_v you_o reconcile_v this_o to_o what_o you_o assert_v to_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n p._n d._n yes_o very_o well_o if_o you_o compare_v what_o he_o say_v here_o with_o what_o he_o declare_v more_o at_o large_a in_o his_o book_n wherein_o you_o may_v read_v these_o remarkable_a word_n to_o this_o purpose_n 30._o if_o it_o can_v any_o way_n be_v show_v that_o the_o church_n do_v ever_o pray_v that_o the_o flesh_n and_o blood_n may_v be_v substitute_v instead_o of_o the_o element_n under_o the_o accident_n of_o they_o than_o i_o be_o content_a that_o this_o be_v account_v henceforth_o the_o sacramental_a presence_n of_o they_o in_o the_o eucharist_n but_o if_o the_o church_n only_o pray_v that_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n come_v down_o upon_o the_o element_n may_v make_v they_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n so_o that_o they_o which_o receive_v they_o may_v be_v fill_v with_o the_o grace_n of_o his_o spirit_n then_o be_v it_o not_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n that_o can_v oblige_v any_o man_n to_o believe_v the_o abolish_n of_o the_o element_n in_o their_o bodily_a substance_n because_o suppose_v that_o they_o remain_v they_o may_v nevertheless_o come_v to_o be_v the_o instrument_n of_o god_n spirit_n to_o convey_v the_o operation_n thereof_o to_o they_o that_o be_v dispose_v to_o receive_v it_o no_o otherwise_o than_o his_o flesh_n and_o blood_n convey_v the_o efficacy_n thereof_o upon_o earth_n and_o that_o i_o suppose_v be_v reason_n enough_o to_o call_v it_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n sacramental_o that_o be_v to_o say_v as_o in_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o eucharist_n and_o in_o two_o or_o three_o place_n more_o he_o speak_v to_o the_o same_o purpose_n r._n p._n hold_v sir_n i_o beseech_v you_o you_o have_v say_v enough_o you_o will_v fall_v back_o again_o to_o transubstantiation_n in_o spite_n of_o my_o heart_n p._n d._n what_o when_o i_o only_o answer_v a_o question_n you_o ask_v i_o r._n p._n enough_o of_o mr._n thorndike_n unless_o he_o be_v more_o our_o friend_n than_o i_o find_v he_o be_v i_o pray_v what_o say_v you_o to_o archbishop_n whitgift_n p._n d._n have_v t._n g._n persuade_v you_o that_o he_o be_v turn_v puritan_n above_o seventy_o year_n after_o his_o death_n who_o never_o be_v suspect_v for_o it_o while_o he_o be_v live_v nor_o since_o till_o the_o transform_a day_n of_o t._n g._n r._n p._n you_o may_v jeer_v as_o you_o please_v but_o t._n g._n tell_v a_o notable_a story_n of_o the_o lambeth_n article_n etc._n and_o how_o q._n elizabeth_n black_a husband_n be_v like_a to_o have_v be_v divorce_v from_o she_o upon_o they_o and_o how_o k._n james_n will_v not_o receive_v they_o into_o the_o article_n of_o the_o church_n and_o all_o this_o as_o well_o as_o many_o other_o good_a thing_n he_o have_v out_o of_o one_o pet._n heylin_n be_v the_o man_n alive_a i_o pray_v that_o we_o may_v give_v he_o our_o due_a thanks_o for_o the_o service_n he_o have_v do_v we_o upon_o many_o occasion_n for_o we_o have_v write_v whole_a book_n against_o the_o reformation_n out_o of_o his_o history_n of_o it_o and_o i_o find_v t._n g._n rely_v as_o much_o upon_o he_o as_o other_o good_a catholic_n do_v on_o cochlaeus_fw-la and_o surius_n or_o as_o he_o do_v at_o other_o time_n on_o the_o patronus_fw-la bonae_fw-la fidei_fw-la p._n d._n dr._n heylin_n be_v a_o man_n of_o very_o good_a part_n and_o learning_n and_o who_o do_v write_v history_n pleasant_o enough_o but_o in_o some_o thing_n he_o be_v too_o much_o a_o party_n to_o be_v a_o historian_n and_o be_v deep_o concern_v in_o some_o quarrel_n himself_o all_o his_o historical_a write_n about_o our_o church_n do_v plain_o discover_v which_o side_n he_o espouse_v which_o to_o i_o do_v not_o seem_v to_o agree_v with_o the_o impartiality_n of_o a_o historian_n and_o if_o he_o can_v but_o throw_v dirt_n on_o that_o which_o he_o account_v the_o puritan_n party_n from_o the_o beginning_n of_o the_o reformation_n he_o matter_a not_o though_o the_o whole_a reformation_n suffer_v by_o it_o but_o for_o all_o this_o he_o be_v far_o from_o be_v a_o friend_n either_o to_o the_o church_n or_o court_n of_o rome_n and_o next_o to_o puritanism_n i_o believe_v he_o hate_v popery_n most_o so_o that_o if_o he_o have_v be_v alive_a and_o you_o have_v go_v to_o thank_v he_o for_o the_o service_n he_o have_v do_v you_o in_o all_o probability_n you_o have_v provoke_v he_o to_o have_v write_v as_o sharp_o against_o you_o as_o ever_o he_o write_v against_o the_o puritan_n but_o what_o be_v all_o this_o to_o archbishop_n whitgift_n be_v suspect_v for_o a_o puritan_n dare_v pet._n heylin_n suggest_v any_o such_o thing_n no_o he_o know_v he_o too_o well_o and_o say_v 62._o that_o by_o his_o contrivance_n the_o puritan_n faction_n be_v so_o muzzle_v that_o they_o be_v not_o able_a to_o bark_v in_o a_o long_a time_n after_o have_v he_o then_o any_o suspicion_n of_o his_o be_v puritanical_o incline_v and_o as_o to_o the_o lambeth_n article_n they_o only_o prove_v that_o he_o hold_v those_o opinion_n contain_v in_o they_o and_o recommend_v they_o to_o the_o university_n to_o suppress_v the_o dispute_n which_o have_v be_v there_o raise_v concern_v they_o and_o what_o then_o do_v this_o render_v he_o
learning_n be_v in_o esteem_n in_o a_o place_n but_o here_o a_o man_n that_o intend_v a_o library_n buy_v all_o sort_n of_o book_n and_o that_o make_v your_o trader_n in_o book_n bring_v over_o from_o all_o part_n and_o of_o all_o kind_n and_o when_o they_o have_v they_o in_o their_o hand_n they_o make_v the_o buyer_n pay_v for_o their_o curiosity_n in_o italy_n it_o be_v a_o rare_a thing_n to_o meet_v with_o a_o greek_a book_n in_o the_o shop_n in_o spain_n you_o see_v nothing_o almost_o beside_o prayer-book_n novel_n and_o school-divinity_n at_o antwerp_n and_o lion_n school-divinity_n and_o life_n of_o the_o saint_n be_v most_o sold._n at_o paris_n indeed_o there_o be_v great_a variety_n but_o we_o observe_v it_o abroad_o that_o in_o the_o best_a catholic_n country_n learning_n be_v in_o least_o esteem_n as_o in_o spain_n and_o italy_n and_o where_o learning_n be_v more_o in_o vogue_n as_o in_o france_n you_o see_v how_o ready_a they_o be_v to_o quarrel_v with_o the_o pope_n and_o to_o fall_v into_o heat_n and_o controversy_n about_o religion_n and_o therefore_o to_o deal_v free_o with_o you_o i_o be_o not_o at_o all_o please_v to_o see_v this_o eagerness_n of_o buy_v of_o book_n among_o you_o for_o as_o long_o as_o learning_n hold_v up_o we_o see_v little_a hope_n of_o prevail_a though_o we_o and_o the_o fanatic_n have_v liberty_n of_o conscience_n since_o upon_o long_a experience_n we_o find_v ignorance_n and_o our_o devotion_n to_o agree_v as_o well_o as_o mother_n and_o daughter_n p._n d._n i_o be_o glad_a of_o any_o symptom_n that_o we_o be_v like_a to_o hold_v in_o our_o wit_n and_o i_o think_v your_o observation_n be_v true_a enough_o i_o have_v only_o one_o thing_n to_o add_v to_o it_o which_o be_v that_o it_o be_v not_o luther_n or_o zuinglius_fw-la that_fw-mi contribute_v so_o much_o to_o the_o reformation_n as_o erasmus_n especial_o among_o we_o in_o england_n for_o erasmus_n be_v the_o man_n who_o awaken_v man_n understanding_n and_o bring_v they_o from_o the_o friar_n divinity_n to_o a_o relish_n of_o general_a learning_n he_o by_o his_o wit_n laugh_v down_o the_o imperious_a ignorance_n of_o the_o monk_n and_o make_v they_o the_o scorn_n of_o christendom_n and_o by_o his_o learning_n he_o bring_v most_o of_o the_o latin_a father_n to_o light_n and_o publish_v they_o with_o excellent_a edition_n and_o useful_a note_n by_o which_o mean_v man_n of_o part_n set_v themselves_o to_o consider_v the_o ancient_a church_n from_o the_o write_n of_o the_o father_n themselves_o and_o not_o from_o the_o canonist_n and_o schoolman_n so_o that_o most_o learned_a and_o impartial_a man_n be_v prepare_v for_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o reformation_n before_o it_o break_v forth_o for_o it_o be_v a_o foolish_a thing_n to_o imagine_v that_o a_o quarrel_n between_o two_o monk_n at_o wittenberg_n shall_v make_v such_o a_o alteration_n in_o the_o state_n of_o christendom_n but_o thing_n have_v be_v tend_v that_o way_n a_o good_a while_n before_o by_o the_o gradual_a restoration_n of_o learning_n in_o these_o western_a part_n the_o greek_n come_v into_o italy_n after_o the_o take_n of_o constantinople_n and_o bring_v their_o book_n with_o they_o lay_v the_o first_o foundation_n of_o it_o then_o some_o of_o the_o prince_n of_o italy_n advance_v their_o own_o reputation_n by_o the_o encouragement_n they_o give_v to_o it_o from_o thence_o it_o spread_v into_o germany_n and_o there_o reuchlin_n and_o his_o companion_n join_v hebrew_a with_o greek_a from_o thence_o it_o come_v into_o france_n and_o england_n when_o man_n have_v by_o this_o mean_v attain_v to_o some_o skill_n in_o language_n they_o think_v it_o necessary_a to_o search_v the_o old_a and_o new_a testament_n in_o their_o original_a tongue_n which_o they_o have_v hear_v of_o but_o few_o have_v see_v not_o above_o one_o greek_a testament_n be_v to_o be_v find_v in_o all_o germany_n then_o erasmus_n print_v it_o with_o his_o note_n which_o infinite_o take_v among_o all_o pious_a and_o learned_a man_n and_o as_o much_o enrage_v the_o monk_n and_o friar_n and_o all_o the_o fast_a friend_n to_o their_o dulness_n and_o superstition_n when_o man_n have_v from_o read_v the_o scripture_n and_o father_n form_v in_o their_o mind_n a_o true_a notion_n of_o the_o christian_a religion_n and_o of_o the_o government_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n and_o compare_v that_o with_o what_o they_o see_v in_o their_o own_o age_n they_o wonder_v at_o the_o difference_n and_o be_v astonish_v to_o think_v how_o such_o a_o alteration_n shall_v happen_v but_o then_o they_o reflect_v on_o the_o barbarism_n of_o the_o forego_n age_n the_o gradual_a encroachment_n of_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n the_o suit_v of_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n to_o carry_v on_o a_o temporal_a interest_n the_o compliance_n with_o the_o superstitious_a humour_n of_o people_n the_o vast_a number_n of_o monk_n and_o friar_n who_o interest_n lie_v in_o the_o uphold_v these_o thing_n and_o when_o they_o lay_v these_o thing_n together_o they_o do_v not_o wonder_v at_o the_o degeneracy_n they_o see_v in_o the_o christian_a church_n all_o the_o difficulty_n be_v how_o to_o recover_v the_o church_n out_o of_o this_o state_n and_o this_o puzzle_v the_o wise_a man_n among_o they_o some_o think_v the_o ill_a humour_n be_v grow_v so_o natural_a to_o the_o body_n that_o it_o will_v hazard_v the_o state_n of_o it_o to_o attempt_v a_o sudden_a purge_v they_o quite_o away_o and_o that_o a_o violent_a reformation_n will_v do_v more_o mischief_n than_o good_a by_o popular_a tumult_n by_o schism_n and_o sacrilege_n and_o although_o such_o person_n see_v the_o corruption_n and_o wish_v they_o reform_v yet_o consider_v the_o hazard_n of_o a_o sudden_a change_n they_o think_v it_o best_o for_o particular_a person_n to_o inform_v the_o world_n better_o and_o so_o by_o degree_n bring_v it_o about_o than_o to_o make_v any_o violent_a disturbance_n in_o the_o church_n while_o these_o thing_n be_v consider_v of_o by_o wise_a man_n the_o pope_n go_v on_o to_o abuse_v the_o people_n with_o the_o trade_n of_o indulgence_n and_o his_o officer_n in_o germany_n be_v so_o impudent_a in_o this_o trade_n that_o a_o bold_a monk_n at_o wittenberg_n defy_v they_o and_o of_o a_o sudden_a lay_n open_v the_o cheat_n and_o this_o discovery_n immediate_o spread_v like_o wildfire_n and_o so_o they_o go_v on_o from_o one_o thing_n to_o another_o till_o the_o people_n be_v enrage_v at_o be_v so_o long_o and_o so_o gross_o abuse_v and_o tyrannize_v over_o but_o when_o reformation_n begin_v below_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v expect_v that_o no_o disorder_n and_o heat_n shall_v happen_v in_o the_o management_n of_o it_o which_o give_v distaste_n to_o such_o person_n as_o erasmus_n be_v which_o make_v he_o like_o so_o ill_a the_o wittenberg_n reformation_n and_o whatever_o be_v carry_v on_o by_o popular_a tumult_n sapient_a yet_o rosinus_n say_v that_o the_o duke_n of_o saxony_n before_o he_o will_v declare_v himself_o in_o favour_n of_o luther_n ask_v erasmus_n his_o opinion_n concern_v he_o who_o give_v he_o this_o answer_n that_o luther_n touch_v upon_o two_o dangerous_a point_n the_o monk_n belly_n and_o the_o pope_n crown_n that_o his_o doctrine_n be_v true_a and_o certain_a but_o he_o do_v not_o approve_v the_o manner_n of_o his_o write_n but_o here_o in_o england_n the_o reformation_n be_v begin_v by_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o king_n and_o the_o bishop_n who_o yield_v to_o the_o retrenchment_n of_o the_o pope_n exorbitant_a power_n and_o the_o take_v away_o some_o grosser_n abuse_n in_o henry_n 8'_v time_n but_o in_o edw._n 6.'s_n time_n and_o q._n elizabeth_n when_o it_o be_v settle_v on_o the_o principle_n it_o now_o stand_v there_o be_v no_o such_o regard_n have_v to_o luther_n or_o calvin_n as_o to_o erasmus_n and_o melancthon_n who_o learning_n and_o moderation_n be_v in_o great_a esteem_n here_o than_o the_o fiery_a spirit_n of_o the_o other_o from_o hence_o thing_n be_v carry_v with_o great_a temper_n the_o church_n settle_v with_o a_o succession_n of_o bishop_n the_o liturgy_n reform_v according_a to_o the_o ancient_a model_n some_o decent_a ceremony_n retain_v without_o the_o solly_n and_o superstition_n which_o be_v before_o practise_v and_o to_o prevent_v the_o extravagancy_n of_o the_o people_n in_o the_o interpret_n of_o scripture_n the_o most_o excellent_a paraphrase_n of_o erasmus_n be_v translate_v into_o english_a and_o set_v up_o in_o church_n and_o to_o this_o day_n erasmus_n be_v in_o far_o great_a esteem_n among_o the_o divine_n of_o our_o church_n than_o either_o luther_n or_o calvin_n r._n p._n if_o this_o be_v true_a which_o you_o say_v methinks_v your_o divine_n shall_v have_v a_o care_n of_o broach_v such_o thing_n which_o do_v subvert_v the_o foundation_n of_o all_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n among_o you_o as_o t
there_o be_v in_o the_o world_n before_o julius_n caesar_n some_o civil_a society_n in_o which_o it_o be_v necessary_a for_o a_o man_n to_o live_v for_o his_o own_o preservation_n but_o this_o be_v not_o the_o roman_a empire_n for_o that_o rise_v up_o after_o he_o therefore_o it_o be_v the_o roman_a commonwealth_n but_o do_v not_o this_o imply_v that_o there_o be_v no_o other_o civil_a society_n in_o the_o world_n wherein_o a_o man_n can_v preserve_v himself_o but_o the_o roman_a commonwealth_n but_o i_o will_v put_v the_o case_n a_o little_o far_a home_n after_o britain_n be_v make_v a_o province_n it_o become_v a_o member_n of_o the_o roman_a empire_n and_o depend_v so_o much_o upon_o the_o strength_n and_o arm_n of_o rome_n that_o it_o be_v not_o able_a to_o defend_v itself_o it_o be_v sore_o distress_v by_o enemy_n and_o in_o danger_n of_o ruin_n send_v to_o rome_n for_o help_v there_o it_o be_v deny_v and_o the_o britain_n force_a to_o look_v out_o for_o help_v elsewhere_o now_o after_o t._n g.'s_n way_n of_o reason_v the_o britain_n must_v return_v to_o the_o roman_n because_o once_o they_o have_v be_v member_n of_o the_o roman_a empire_n the_o case_n be_v alike_o in_o the_o church_n the_o time_n be_v when_o the_o western_a church_n be_v unite_v under_o one_o head_n but_o by_o degree_n this_o head_n grow_v too_o heavy_a and_o lay_v too_o great_a a_o load_n on_o the_o member_n require_v very_o hard_a and_o unreasonable_a condition_n from_o they_o upon_o this_o some_o of_o the_o member_n seek_v for_o relief_n this_o be_v deny_v they_o they_o take_v care_n of_o their_o own_o safety_n and_o do_v what_o be_v necessary_a to_o preserve_v themselves_o the_o head_n and_o some_o corrupt_a member_n conspire_v denounce_v excommunication_n if_o they_o do_v not_o present_o yield_v and_o submit_v these_o part_n stand_v upon_o their_o own_o right_n and_o ancient_a privilege_n that_o it_o be_v not_o a_o union_n of_o submission_n but_o association_n original_o between_o several_a national_a church_n and_o therefore_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n assume_v so_o much_o more_o to_o itself_o than_o do_v belong_v to_o it_o and_o deal_v so_o tyrannical_o upon_o just_a complaint_n our_o church_n have_v reason_n to_o assert_v she_o own_o freedom_n and_o to_o reform_v the_o abuse_n which_o have_v creep_v either_o into_o her_o doctrine_n or_o practice_n and_o that_o this_o be_v lawful_a proceed_n it_o offer_v to_o justify_v by_o scripture_n and_o reason_n and_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n now_o the_o question_n of_o communion_n as_o it_o be_v state_v between_o t._n g._n and_o dr._n st._n come_v to_o this_o whether_o any_o person_n be_v baptize_v in_o this_o church_n aught_o in_o order_n to_o his_o salvation_n to_o forsake_v the_o communion_n of_o it_o for_o that_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o this_o be_v the_o true_a state_n of_o it_o i_o pray_v where_o lie_v the_o force_n of_o the_o argument_n dr._n st._n yield_v communion_n with_o some_o church_n to_o be_v necessary_a and_o what_o follow_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v so_o to_o one_o baptize_v in_o it_o why_o must_v any_o such_o leave_v it_o for_o that_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n yes_o say_v t._n g._n there_o be_v a_o distinct_a church_n before_o luther_n who_o communion_n be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o what_o then_o what_o have_v we_o to_o do_v with_o luther_n we_o be_v speak_v of_o the_o present_a church_n of_o england_n which_o be_v reform_v by_o itself_o and_o not_o by_o luther_n why_o be_v it_o necessary_a to_o leave_v this_o church_n in_o which_o person_n be_v baptize_v and_o not_o in_o that_o before_o luther_n here_o lie_v the_o main_a hinge_n of_o the_o controversy_n to_o which_o t._n g._n aught_o to_o speak_v and_o not_o to_o run_v to_o a_o church_n before_o luther_n the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v the_o church_n of_o england_n before_o the_o reformation_n as_o well_o as_o since_o but_o it_o have_v now_o reform_v itself_o be_v a_o entire_a body_n within_o itself_o have_v bishop_n to_o govern_v it_o priest_n and_o deacon_n to_o administer_v sacrament_n to_o preach_v the_o word_n of_o god_n to_o officiate_v in_o the_o public_a liturgy_n in_o which_o all_o the_o ancient_a creed_n be_v read_v and_o own_v the_o question_n now_o be_v whether_o salvation_n can_v be_v have_v in_o the_o communion_n of_o this_o church_n or_o all_o person_n be_v bind_v to_o return_v to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n this_o be_v the_o point_n if_o t._n g._n have_v any_o more_o to_o say_v to_o it_o r._n p._n t._n g._n urge_v far_o nothing_o can_v render_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n not_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n 74._o but_o either_o heresy_n or_o schism_n not_o heresy_n because_o she_o hold_v all_o the_o essential_a article_n of_o christian_a faith_n not_o schism_n because_o then_o dr._n st._n must_v assign_v some_o other_o distinct_a church_n then_o at_o least_o in_o be_v from_o who_o unity_n she_o depart_v p._n d._n a_o right_a douai_n argument_n one_o will_v take_v t._n g._n for_o a_o young_a missioner_n by_o it_o it_o be_v so_o exact_o cut_v in_o their_o form_n but_o it_o proceed_v upon_o such_o false_a supposition_n as_o these_o 1._o that_o communion_n with_o the_o roman_a church_n as_o such_o i._n e._n as_o a_o body_n unite_v under_o such_o a_o head_n be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n which_o we_o utter_o deny_v and_o it_o can_v never_o be_v prove_v but_o by_o show_v that_o christ_n appoint_v the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n to_o be_v head_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v a_o argument_n i_o do_v not_o find_v that_o now_o adays_o you_o be_v willing_a to_o enter_v upon_o be_v so_o threadbare_a and_o baffle_v a_o topick_n 2._o that_o no_o doctrine_n but_o such_o as_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o article_n of_o the_o creed_n can_v be_v any_o reason_n to_o hold_v off_o from_o the_o communion_n of_o a_o church_n but_o we_o think_v the_o require_v doubtful_a thing_n for_o certain_a 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book_n from_o paris_n you_o shall_v see_v how_o i_o will_v handle_v he_o and_o if_o you_o put_v in_o upon_o occasion_n you_o shall_v find_v by_o this_o experiment_n what_o success_n our_o unite_a force_n will_v have_v against_o the_o church_n of_o england_n f._n c._n do_v you_o begin_v and_o you_o shall_v see_v how_o i_o will_v second_v you_o when_o occasion_n offer_v itself_o r._n p._n sir_n i_o perceive_v the_o divine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n do_v buy_v up_o the_o father_n very_a much_o at_o auction_n i_o wonder_v that_o any_o who_o read_v the_o father_n can_v be_v for_o the_o church_n of_o england_n pr._n diu._n and_o i_o do_v more_o wonder_n at_o you_o for_o say_v so_o for_o therefore_o we_o be_v for_o the_o church_n of_o england_n because_o we_o read_v both_o scripture_n and_o father_n r._n p._n to_o what_o purpose_n be_v all_o this_o charge_n and_o pain_n if_o there_o be_v a_o infallible_a church_n p._n d._n therefore_o to_o good_a purpose_n because_o there_o be_v 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suppose_v she_o may_v be_v break_v off_o through_o unbelief_n as_o well_o as_o any_o other_o church_n r._n p._n do_v not_o s._n paul_n say_v that_o the_o roman_a faith_n be_v speak_v of_o throughout_o the_o world_n p._n d._n what_o then_o i_o beseech_v you_o do_v it_o follow_v that_o faith_n must_v always_o continue_v the_o same_o any_o more_o than_o that_o the_o church_n of_o philadelphia_n must_v at_o this_o day_n be_v what_o it_o be_v when_o s._n john_n write_v those_o great_a commendation_n of_o it_o these_o be_v such_o slender_a proof_n that_o you_o have_v as_o good_a come_v to_o downright_o beg_v the_o cause_n as_o pretend_v to_o maintain_v it_o after_o such_o a_o manner_n
to_o reason_n therefore_o i_o pray_v let_v we_o set_v aside_o all_o rude_a and_o unbecoming_a reflection_n and_o calm_o consider_v how_o t._n g._n prove_v that_o the_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n be_v not_o agreeable_a to_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n r._n p._n hold_v sir_n you_o be_v a_o little_a too_o nimble_a 13._o t._n g._n say_v his_o intention_n be_v only_o to_o show_v that_o dr._n st._n have_v not_o sufficient_o prove_v it_o to_o be_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n from_o the_o testimony_n he_o then_o produce_v whatsoever_o he_o may_v or_o can_v do_v from_o other_o act_n or_o author_n of_o that_o church_n and_o he_o elsewhere_o say_v that_o t._n g._n do_v not_o dispute_v ex_fw-la professo_fw-la 10._o whether_o it_o be_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v guilty_a of_o idolatry_n or_o no_o nor_o whether_o dr._n st._n dissent_v from_o the_o sense_n of_o his_o church_n but_o what_o he_o 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scotus_n or_o erigena_n this_o man_n at_o the_o request_n of_o carolus_n calvus_n deliver_v his_o opinion_n direct_o contrary_a to_o paschasius_fw-la for_o whereas_o he_o assert_v that_o the_o very_a same_o body_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v bear_v of_o the_o b._n virgin_n be_v invisible_o present_a under_o the_o accident_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n scotus_n deny_v that_o the_o element_n be_v in_o any_o real_a sense_n after_o consecration_n the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n the_o sacrament_n be_v only_o a_o bare_a commemoration_n or_o figurative_a representation_n of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ._n 4._o so_o hincmarus_n who_o live_v in_o that_o age_n deliver_v his_o opinion_n which_o be_v afterward_o take_v up_o by_o berengarius_fw-la as_o appear_v by_o lanfrank_n answer_n to_o he_o and_o ascelinus_fw-la in_o his_o epistle_n to_o berengarius_fw-la show_v that_o joh._n scotus_n out_o of_o opposition_n to_o paschasius_fw-la set_v himself_o to_o prove_v from_o the_o father_n that_o what_o be_v consecrate_v on_o the_o altar_n be_v not_o true_o and_o real_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ._n these_o two_o opposite_a doctrine_n be_v thus_o disperse_v and_o a_o schism_n be_v likely_a to_o break_v out_o upon_o it_o as_o appear_v both_o by_o ratramnus_n and_o the_o anonymous_n author_n publish_v by_o cellotius_n and_o extant_a in_o ms_n in_o the_o cotton_n library_n carolus_n calvus_n send_v to_o ratramnus_n a_o eminent_a divine_a of_o that_o age_n be_v employ_v by_o the_o gallican_n church_n to_o defend_v the_o latin_n against_o the_o greek_n to_o know_v his_o judgement_n in_o this_o matter_n he_o who_o be_v better_o know_v by_o the_o name_n of_o bertram_n give_v in_o his_o preface_n a_o account_n to_o his_o prince_n of_o both_o these_o opinion_n and_o reject_v they_o both_o as_o against_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o father_n and_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n in_o the_o first_o part_n of_o his_o book_n he_o dispute_v against_o scotus_n who_o will_v allow_v no_o mystery_n and_o in_o the_o second_o against_o paschasius_fw-la who_o contend_v that_o the_o same_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v in_o the_o sacrament_n which_o be_v bear_v of_o the_o b._n virgin_n this_o he_o say_v be_v the_o state_n of_o the_o second_o question_n whether_o that_o very_a body_n of_o christ_n which_o sit_v at_o the_o right_a hand_n of_o god_n be_v receive_v by_o believer_n in_o the_o sacramental_a mystery_n and_o he_o prove_v the_o negative_a at_o large_a from_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o father_n show_v that_o they_o do_v put_v a_o difference_n between_o that_o body_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v bear_v of_o the_o virgin_n and_o suffer_v on_o the_o cross_n and_o that_o true_a but_o mystical_a body_n of_o christ_n on_o the_o altar_n and_o so_o from_o the_o testimony_n of_o s._n ambrose_n s._n augustine_n s._n hierom_n fulgentius_n from_o the_o scripture_n and_o from_o the_o office_n of_o the_o church_n he_o conclude_v pointblank_o against_o paschasius_fw-la that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o same_o body_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o sacrament_n which_o be_v bear_v of_o the_o b._n virgin_n but_o then_o against_o the_o opinion_n of_o scotus_n he_o deliver_v his_o mind_n full_o in_o answer_n to_o the_o first_o question_n say_v if_o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o the_o sacrament_n but_o what_o appear_v to_o the_o sense_n it_o be_v unfit_o call_v a_o mystery_n and_o there_o will_v be_v no_o exercise_n for_o faith_n no_o change_n at_o all_o wrought_v in_o the_o element_n the_o sacrament_n will_v fall_v short_a of_o baptism_n and_o the_o manna_n in_o the_o wilderness_n and_o last_o to_o what_o purpose_n do_v christ_n promise_v his_o flesh_n to_o be_v the_o food_n of_o his_o people_n which_o be_v not_o to_o be_v understand_v carnal_o and_o literal_o must_v have_v a_o spiritual_a signification_n so_o that_o though_o as_o to_o their_o outward_a appearance_n the_o sacramental_a element_n be_v figure_n yet_o according_a to_o the_o invisible_a power_n and_o efficacy_n they_o be_v the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ._n and_o this_o he_o show_v to_o have_v be_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o father_n and_o christian_a church_n this_o opinion_n of_o ratramnus_n paschasius_fw-la in_o his_o epistle_n to_o frudegardus_fw-la call_v the_o doctrine_n of_o those_o who_o deny_v the_o presence_n of_o christ_n flesh_n in_o the_o sacrament_n but_o do_v hold_v a_o invisible_a power_n and_o efficacy_n in_o and_o with_o the_o element_n because_o say_v they_o there_o be_v no_o body_n but_o what_o be_v visible_a and_o palpable_a and_o whoever_o will_v read_v that_o epistle_n of_o paschasius_fw-la will_v find_v the_o expression_n he_o answer_v the_o very_a same_o that_o yet_o occur_v in_o the_o book_n of_o bertram_n of_o the_o same_o opinion_n with_o ratramnus_n in_o this_o matter_n be_v rabanus_n maurus_n the_o great_a divine_a account_v of_o his_o age_n who_o write_v his_o epistle_n to_o egilo_n against_o they_o who_o have_v late_o broach_v that_o doctrine_n mark_n that_o that_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o sacrament_n be_v the_o very_a same_o which_o be_v bear_v of_o the_o b._n virgin_n and_o suffer_v on_o the_o cross_n and_o rose_n from_o the_o dead_a and_o this_o appear_v from_o his_o epistle_n to_o heribaldus_n still_o extant_a wherein_o he_o say_v he_o declare_v in_o what_o sense_n the_o sacrament_n be_v the_o body_n of_o christ._n beside_o the_o anonymus_fw-la author_n publish_v by_o cellotius_n the_o only_a person_n about_o that_o time_n who_o appear_v in_o behalf_n of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o paschasius_fw-la and_o very_o inconsiderable_a in_o comparison_n of_o his_o adversary_n confess_v the_o opposition_n make_v to_o paschasius_fw-la by_o rabanus_n and_o ratramnus_n and_o endeavour_n to_o excuse_v his_o simplicity_n in_o assert_v that_o the_o same_o flesh_n of_o christ_n be_v upon_o the_o altar_n which_o be_v
church_n be_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n because_o of_o his_o spirit_n quicken_a and_o enliven_a the_o soul_n of_o believer_n so_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n after_o consecration_n be_v the_o real_a but_o the_o spiritual_a and_o mystical_a body_n of_o christ._n if_o any_o one_o yet_o think_v that_o some_o at_o least_o of_o our_o divine_n have_v go_v far_a than_o this_o let_v they_o know_v it_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o our_o church_n i_o be_o to_o defend_v and_o not_o of_o every_o particular_a divine_a in_o it_o and_o if_o any_o do_v seem_v to_o speak_v of_o the_o presence_n of_o the_o very_a same_o body_n which_o be_v in_o heaven_n i_o desire_v they_o in_o the_o first_o place_n to_o reconcile_v that_o doctrine_n with_o this_o dogmatical_a assertion_n at_o the_o end_n of_o this_o rubric_n that_o it_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n of_o christ_n natural_a body_n not_o against_o the_o corporal_a presence_n of_o it_o to_o be_v at_o one_o time_n in_o more_o place_n than_o one_o let_v man_n 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of_o christ_n and_o withal_o since_o so_o many_o thousand_o host_n be_v consecrate_v in_o a_o day_n you_o must_v suppose_v so_o much_o air_n annihilate_v as_o lie_n between_o christ_n body_n and_o all_o those_o host_n but_o can_v any_o man_n imagine_v god_n shall_v annihilate_v so_o much_o air_n every_o time_n a_o priest_n consecrate_v and_o i_o remember_v a_o good_a say_n of_o cajetan_n â—_o non_fw-la est_fw-la disputandum_fw-la de_fw-fr divina_fw-la potentia_fw-la ubi_fw-la de_fw-la sacramentis_fw-la tractatur_fw-la we_o must_v not_o dispute_v of_o god_n absolute_a power_n about_o the_o matter_n of_o sacrament_n because_o these_o be_v so_o often_o celebrate_v that_o we_o be_v to_o suppose_v no_o more_o than_o a_o ordinary_a power_n to_o be_v employ_v about_o they_o and_o suppose_v we_o shall_v grant_v a_o thing_n possible_a by_o god_n absolute_a power_n he_o say_v it_o be_v folly_n to_o assert_v all_o that_o to_o be_v in_o the_o sacrament_n which_o god_n can_v do_v however_o this_o do_v not_o reach_v this_o rubric_n which_o suppose_v distinct_a place_n and_o say_v it_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o truth_n of_o christ_n natural_a body_n to_o be_v in_o more_o place_n than_o one_o at_o one_o time_n r._n p._n but_o may_v not_o all_o this_o be_v understand_v as_o t._n g._n suggest_v of_o the_o natural_a manner_n of_o a_o body_n be_v present_a in_o more_o place_n than_o one_o viz._n that_o it_o be_v repugnant_a to_o the_o truth_n of_o christ_n natural_a body_n to_o be_v natural_o present_a or_o in_o a_o corporeal_a manner_n in_o more_o place_n than_o one_o but_o it_o may_v be_v natural_o present_v but_o in_o one_o place_n i._n e._n by_o way_n of_o extension_n or_o quantity_n but_o it_o may_v be_v present_a in_o more_o place_n after_o another_o manner_n p._n d._n i_o think_v you_o have_v strain_v for_o this_o and_o it_o be_v your_o last_o effort_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v 1._o it_o yield_v no_o advantage_n to_o t._n g._n for_o suppose_v that_o some_o of_o our_o divine_n do_v hold_v it_o possible_a that_o the_o same_o body_n may_v be_v present_a in_o several_a place_n after_o a_o different_a manner_n yet_o how_o do_v it_o hence_o follow_v that_o the_o rubric_n do_v not_o charge_v they_o who_o worship_n the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n with_o idolatry_n 2._o suppose_v the_o church_n do_v fix_v this_o charge_n upon_o those_o who_o worship_n the_o body_n of_o christ_n as_o present_v i_o desire_v to_o know_v whether_o another_o kind_n of_o presence_n will_v excuse_v from_o idolatry_n i._o e._n suppose_v that_o to_o worship_n christ_n body_n as_o corporeal_o present_v be_v idolatry_n it_o will_v not_o be_v idolatry_n to_o worship_v the_o very_a same_o body_n as_o present_v after_o another_o manner_n which_o be_v all_o one_o as_o to_o ask_v whether_o if_o it_o be_v idolatry_n to_o worship_v a_o man_n with_o his_o clothes_n on_o it_o be_v likewise_o idolatry_n to_o worship_v he_o with_o his_o clothes_n off_o if_o it_o be_v the_o very_a same_o 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host_n on_o the_o altar_n be_v so_o there_o as_o not_o to_o be_v on_o the_o floor_n or_o any_o other_o place_n about_o it_o for_o otherwise_o it_o can_v not_o be_v say_v to_o be_v only_o under_o the_o accident_n i_o then_o ask_v on_o what_o account_n the_o same_o body_n can_v be_v present_a in_o two_o place_n at_o once_o after_o the_o same_o manner_n and_o yet_o may_v be_v after_o a_o different_a manner_n aquinas_n say_v 2._o it_o do_v imply_v a_o contradiction_n for_o the_o same_o body_n to_o be_v in_o several_a place_n at_o once_o after_o the_o same_o manner_n i._n e._n by_o way_n of_o extension_n or_o quantity_n because_o it_o be_v necessary_a for_o the_o same_o thing_n to_o be_v undivided_a from_o itself_o but_o that_o which_o be_v in_o several_a place_n must_v be_v divide_v from_o itself_o but_o as_o conink_v well_o observe_v this_o argument_n prove_v it_o as_o impossible_a for_o the_o same_o body_n to_o be_v in_o several_a place_n after_o a_o different_a manner_n 3._o for_o it_o 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come_v near_a to_o a_o divine_a immensity_n for_o a_o body_n to_o be_v in_o more_o place_n without_o quantity_n than_o with_o it_o suarez_n and_o gamachaeus_n say_v 4._o this_o come_v near_a to_o ubiquity_n because_o a_o sacramental_a presence_n suppose_v the_o body_n to_o be_v whole_a in_o every_o part_n which_o a_o natural_a do_v not_o and_o they_o grant_v that_o all_o the_o contradiction_n which_o follow_v upon_o be_v present_a in_o several_a place_n after_o a_o natural_a manner_n will_v hold_v if_o the_o one_o be_v natural_a and_o the_o other_o not_o i._n e._n that_o the_o same_o body_n may_v be_v above_o itself_o and_o below_o itself_o within_o itself_o and_o without_o itself_o and_o may_v move_v with_o two_o contrary_a motion_n
upward_o and_o downward_o forward_o and_o backward_o it_o may_v be_v hot_a in_o one_o place_n and_o cold_a in_o another_o it_o may_v be_v alive_a in_o one_o place_n and_o dead_a in_o another_o and_o which_o be_v the_o high_a contradiction_n one_o will_v think_v by_o force_n of_o this_o principle_n a_o man_n may_v be_v damn_v in_o one_o place_n and_o save_v in_o another_o and_o no_o less_o a_o man_n than_o ysambertus_n have_v defend_v the_o possibility_n of_o this_o upon_o this_o principle_n for_o 8._o say_v he_o a_o man_n as_o in_o one_o place_n may_v be_v kill_v in_o a_o mortal_a sin_n and_o so_o be_v damn_v whereas_o in_o another_o place_n he_o may_v have_v contrition_n and_o absolution_n and_o so_o be_v save_v but_o vasquez_n ask_v a_o untoward_a question_n 28._o suppose_v such_o a_o man_n be_v reduce_v to_o one_o place_n whether_o shall_v he_o be_v save_v or_o damn_v for_o he_o can_v then_o be_v both_o and_o there_o be_v no_o more_o reason_n he_o shall_v be_v put_v out_o of_o the_o 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be_v so_o he_o will_v have_v take_v his_o lawn_n sleeve_n and_o throw_v they_o into_o the_o fire_n p._n d._n but_o i_o pray_v sir_n how_o come_v in_o this_o discourse_n about_o bishop_n abbot_n r._n p._n i_o will_v tell_v you_o among_o other_o divine_n produce_v by_o dr._n st._n to_o prove_v the_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n maintain_v against_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o k._n james_n his_o time_n one_o be_v bishop_n abbot_n in_o his_o answer_n to_o bishop_n t._n g._n take_v this_o to_o be_v archbishop_n abbot_n and_o except_v against_o he_o as_o a_o abettor_n of_o the_o puritan_n party_n and_o tell_v from_o dr._n heylin_n that_o on_o that_o account_n it_o be_v think_v necessary_a to_o suspend_v he_o from_o his_o metropolitical_a visitation_n dr._n st._n make_v sport_n with_o his_o suspend_v a_o bishop_n of_o salisbury_n from_o metropolitical_a jurisdiction_n and_o tell_v what_o strange_a thing_n those_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n can_v do_v with_o five_o word_n and_o upbraid_v 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moderate_a way_n wherein_o r._n abbot_n assert_v it_o as_o though_o it_o be_v not_o possible_a for_o man_n to_o be_v zealous_a for_o our_o liturgy_n and_o ceremony_n if_o they_o hold_v the_o doctrine_n of_o election_n and_o perseverance_n but_o we_o do_v not_o want_v those_o of_o the_o high_a order_n of_o our_o church_n at_o this_o day_n who_o be_v eminent_a for_o learning_n and_o piety_n and_o zeal_n for_o the_o church_n who_o will_v take_v it_o very_o ill_a from_o t._n g._n upon_o the_o account_n of_o those_o opinion_n to_o be_v think_v enemy_n to_o the_o church_n of_o england_n as_o no_o doubt_n the_o puritan_n be_v but_o t._n g._n run_v on_o with_o this_o perpetual_a mistake_n when_o
order_n in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n it_o be_v enough_o to_o make_v thing_n lawful_a if_o they_o be_v not_o forbid_v let_v we_o now_o compare_v this_o say_n with_o what_o he_o call_v the_o fundamental_a principle_n of_o separation_n that_o nothing_o be_v lawful_a in_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n but_o what_o he_o have_v express_o command_v and_o can_v any_o thing_n be_v more_o contradictory_n to_o this_o than_o what_o dr._n st._n lay_v down_o as_o a_o principle_n in_o that_o very_a page_n of_o his_o irenicum_fw-la that_o a_o express_v positive_a command_n be_v not_o necessary_a to_o make_v a_o thing_n lawful_a but_o a_o non-prohibition_n by_o a_o law_n be_v sufficient_a for_o that_o where_o then_o lie_v t._n g.'s_n understanding_n or_o ingenuity_n when_o he_o mention_n such_o a_o great_a change_n in_o the_o dr._n as_o to_o this_o principle_n when_o he_o own_v the_o very_a same_o principle_n even_o in_o that_o book_n and_o that_o very_a page_n he_o quote_v to_o the_o contrary_a t._n g._n do_v presume_v good_a catholic_n reader_n will_v take_v his_o word_n without_o look_v far_o and_o i_o scarce_o ever_o know_v a_o writer_n who_o stand_v more_o in_o need_n of_o the_o good_a opinion_n of_o his_o reader_n in_o this_o kind_n than_o t._n g._n do_v as_o i_o shall_v make_v it_o full_o appear_v if_o you_o hold_v on_o this_o discourse_n with_o i_o for_o i_o have_v take_v some_o pain_n to_o consider_v t._n g.'s_n manner_n of_o deal_n with_o his_o adversary_n but_o this_o be_v too_o gross_a a_o way_n of_o impose_v upon_o the_o credulity_n of_o reader_n yet_o this_o be_v their_o common_a method_n of_o deal_n with_o dr._n st._n when_o they_o intend_v to_o write_v against_o he_o then_o have_v you_o dr._n st._n be_v irenicum_fw-la hope_v to_o find_v matter_n there_o to_o expose_v he_o to_o the_o hatred_n of_o the_o bishop_n and_o to_o represent_v he_o as_o unfit_a to_o defend_v the_o church_n of_o england_n if_o this_o take_v not_o than_o they_o pick_v sentence_n and_o 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of_o image_n not_o as_o idolatry_n but_o as_o a_o fond_a thing_n vain_o invent_v and_o ground_v upon_o no_o warranty_n of_o scripture_n but_o rather_o repugnant_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n for_o etc._n i_o perceive_v this_o stick_n much_o with_o t._n g._n and_o from_o hence_o he_o conclude_v dr._n st._n to_o contradict_v the_o sense_n of_o it_o 63._o who_o be_v the_o champion_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n p._n d._n i_o perceive_v t._n g._n keep_v this_o for_o a_o part_a blow_n after_o which_o he_o think_v fit_a to_o breathe_v a_o while_n have_v spend_v so_o many_o spirit_n in_o this_o encounter_n but_o methinks_v his_o arm_n grow_v feeble_a and_o although_o his_o fury_n be_v as_o great_a as_o ever_o yet_o his_o strength_n be_v decay_v and_o in_o my_o mind_n it_o do_v not_o become_v a_o man_n of_o his_o chivalry_n so_o often_o to_o leave_v his_o lance_n and_o to_o run_v with_o open_a mouth_n upon_o his_o adversary_n and_o to_o bite_v till_o his_o tooth_n meet_v for_o what_o 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and_o therein_o consider_v 1._o what_o t._n g._n object_n 2._o what_o dr._n st._n answer_v 3._o which_o way_n the_o sense_n of_o the_o article_n be_v to_o be_v interpret_v t._n g._n look_n upon_o it_o as_o a_o notable_a observation_n that_o the_o compiler_n of_o the_o 39_o article_n in_o which_o be_v contain_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n sufficient_o insinuate_v that_o they_o can_v find_v no_o such_o command_n forbid_v the_o worship_n of_o image_n when_o they_o reject_v the_o adoration_n of_o image_n not_o as_o idolatry_n but_o only_o as_o a_o fond_a thing_n vain_o invent_v nor_o as_o repugnant_a to_o the_o plain_a word_n of_o scripture_n but_o as_o rather_o repugnant_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n which_o qualification_n of_o they_o give_v we_o plain_o to_o understand_v that_o they_o have_v do_v their_o endeavour_n to_o find_v such_o a_o command_n but_o can_v meet_v with_o none_o to_o which_o dr._n st._n give_v this_o answer_n that_o the_o force_n of_o all_o 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the_o doctrine_n teach_v in_o her_o council_n which_o all_o those_o of_o her_o communion_n be_v bind_v to_o submit_v to_o if_o the_o doctrine_n which_o the_o church_n of_o england_n charge_v be_v that_o which_o be_v teach_v by_o some_o of_o her_o school_n divine_v which_o he_o take_v to_o be_v her_o true_a meaning_n this_o be_v also_o deny_v at_o least_o by_o those_o very_a divine_n who_o teach_v it_o to_o be_v idolatry_n if_o by_o the_o romish_a doctrine_n be_v mean_v the_o doctrine_n of_o council_n own_v by_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n concern_v worship_v and_o adoration_n of_o image_n than_o herein_o she_o be_v vindicate_v from_o idolatry_n by_o eminent_a divine_n that_o have_v be_v esteem_v true_a and_o genuine_a son_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n p._n d._n and_o do_v this_o mighty_a effort_n come_v to_o this_o at_o last_o what_o pity_v it_o be_v t._n g._n have_v no_o better_o a_o cause_n he_o set_v this_o off_o so_o pretty_o and_o dazzle_v the_o eye_n of_o his_o beholder_n 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yield_v this_o be_v idolatry_n and_o therefore_o the_o church_n of_o england_n do_v charge_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n with_o idolatry_n but_o how_o subtle_o have_v t._n g._n alter_v the_o whole_a force_n of_o the_o argument_n by_o take_v adoration_n not_o in_o the_o sense_n of_o our_o church_n but_o of_o their_o school-divines_a and_o then_o tell_v we_o that_o even_o those_o school-divines_a who_o teach_v adoration_n of_o image_n deny_v it_o to_o be_v idolatry_n and_o whoever_o expect_v they_o shall_v confess_v themselves_o guilty_a but_o what_o be_v this_o to_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n where_o do_v it_o allow_v such_o a_o distinction_n of_o divine_a worship_n into_o that_o which_o be_v superior_a and_o inferior_a or_o that_o which_o be_v proper_a to_o god_n and_o that_o which_o be_v not_o 2._o by_o romish_a doctrine_n the_o church_n of_o england_n do_v not_o mean_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o school-divines_a but_o the_o doctrine_n receive_v and_o allow_v 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be_v then_o bind_v to_o observe_v or_o else_o may_v be_v proceed_v against_o as_o lollard_n and_o this_o be_v that_o which_o dr._n st._n insist_o upon_o be_v the_o thing_n condemn_v by_o the_o article_n of_o our_o church_n viz._n the_o worship_n of_o image_n which_o be_v require_v and_o practise_v here_o in_o england_n and_o what_o reason_n have_v we_o to_o run_v to_o school-divines_a for_o the_o sense_n of_o matter_n of_o daily_a practice_n as_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n be_v before_o the_o reformation_n and_o so_o i_o conclude_v if_o this_o be_v all_o t._n g._n in_o so_o long_a time_n have_v have_v to_o say_v about_o this_o matter_n viz._n above_o four_o year_n since_o dr._n st.'s_n general_n preface_n be_v publish_v he_o have_v very_o unreasonable_o charge_v he_o with_o dissent_v from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n in_o this_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n f._n c._n i_o hope_v you_o have_v do_v for_o this_o time_n and_o if_o you_o catch_v i_o again_o lose_v so_o much_o time_n in_o 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intend_v for_o the_o auction_n again_o to_o morrow_n and_o if_o i_o can_v easy_o get_v the_o book_n i_o look_v for_o i_o will_v bear_v you_o company_n otherwise_o go_v on_o with_o your_o discourse_n and_o i_o will_v come_v to_o you_o when_o i_o have_v make_v my_o adventure_n it_o be_v possible_a i_o may_v meet_v with_o some_o of_o they_o to_o night_n for_o i_o hear_v they_o at_o rutherford_n and_o gillespee_n and_o our_o divinity_n follow_v just_a after_o the_o scotch_a which_o be_v well_o observe_v by_o the_o catalogue-maker_n for_o the_o covenant_n bind_v we_o to_o reform_v according_a to_o the_o pattern_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n r._n p._n you_o intend_v then_o to_o meet_v here_o again_o to_o morrow_n at_o three_o of_o clock_n to_o pursue_v our_o conference_n about_o these_o matter_n i_o will_v not_o fail_v you_o and_o so_o adieu_n the_o end_n of_o the_o first_o conference_n the_o second_o conference_n about_o the_o consequence_n of_o the_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n p._n d._n how_o long_o have_v you_o be_v at_o the_o auction_n r._n p._n above_o a_o hour_n for_o i_o have_v a_o great_a desire_n to_o see_v how_o the_o book_n be_v sell_v at_o they_o p._n d._n and_o i_o pray_v what_o do_v you_o observe_v concern_v the_o buy_n of_o book_n here_o r._n p._n i_o find_v it_o a_o pretty_a humoursome_a thing_n and_o sometime_o man_n give_v great_a rate_n for_o book_n than_o they_o may_v buy_v they_o for_o in_o the_o shop_n and_o yet_o general_o book_n be_v sell_v dear_a here_o than_o in_o any_o part_n of_o europe_n p._n d._n what_o reason_n can_v you_o give_v for_o that_o r._n p._n one_o be_v that_o the_o scholar_n of_o england_n allow_v themselves_o great_a liberty_n in_o learning_n than_o they_o do_v in_o foreign_a part_n where_o common_o only_a one_o kind_n of_o
be_v not_o a_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v and_o absolve_v a_o part_n of_o that_o jurisdiction_n which_o t._n g._n do_v distinguish_v from_o the_o bare_a power_n of_o order_n r._n p._n yes_o without_o doubt_n p._n d._n be_v not_o this_o power_n give_v by_o the_o very_a form_n of_o order_n in_o your_o church_n r._n p._n yes_o but_o what_o then_o p._n d._n do_v not_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n say_v the_o character_n be_v imprint_v upon_o say_v those_o word_n accipe_fw-la spiritum_fw-la sanctum_fw-la etc._n etc._n r._n p._n what_o will_v you_o be_v at_o p._n d._n be_v the_o character_n of_o order_n give_v by_o word_n that_o signify_v nothing_o and_o carry_v no_o effect_n along_o with_o they_o r._n p._n no_o certain_o p._n d._n then_o these_o word_n have_v their_o effect_n upon_o every_o man_n that_o have_v the_o power_n of_o order_n r._n p._n and_o what_o then_o p._n d._n then_o every_o one_o who_o have_v the_o power_n of_o order_n have_v the_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v and_o 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be_v take_v away_o as_o well_o as_o jurisdiction_n beside_o be_v not_o the_o power_n of_o give_v order_n a_o part_n of_o that_o lawful_a authority_n which_o belong_v to_o bishop_n r._n p._n i_o do_v not_o understand_v you_o p._n d._n can_v any_o man_n give_v order_n without_o a_o power_n to_o do_v it_o r._n p._n no._n p._n d._n be_v not_o that_o power_n a_o part_n of_o episcopal_a authority_n r._n p._n yes_o p._n d._n how_o then_o can_v there_o be_v a_o power_n of_o give_v order_n without_o authority_n r._n p._n now_o you_o show_v your_o ignorance_n do_v not_o you_o know_v that_o there_o be_v a_o indelible_a character_n imprint_v in_o the_o soul_n by_o the_o power_n of_o order_n which_o no_o act_n of_o the_o church_n can_v hinder_v a_o bishop_n from_o give_v in_o the_o sacrament_n of_o order_n or_o a_o priest_n from_o receive_v but_o jurisdiction_n be_v quite_o another_o thing_n that_o be_v derive_v from_o the_o church_n or_o rather_o from_o the_o pope_n who_o be_v the_o fountain_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o this_o may_v be_v suspend_v or_o take_v away_o p._n d._n i_o cry_v you_o mercy_n sir_n i_o be_v not_o breed_v up_o in_o your_o school_n this_o may_v be_v currant_n doctrine_n with_o you_o but_o i_o assure_v you_o i_o find_v no_o footstep_n of_o it_o either_o in_o scripture_n or_o father_n and_o if_o i_o be_v not_o much_o misinform_v some_o of_o your_o great_a divine_n be_v of_o my_o mind_n i_o see_v all_o this_o outcry_n of_o t._n g.'s_n concern_v dr._n st._n be_v ignorance_n come_v at_o last_o to_o this_o mystery_n of_o the_o indelible_a character_n imprint_v in_o the_o soul_n by_o the_o sacrament_n of_o order_n which_o make_v ordination_n to_o be_v valid_a but_o give_v no_o authority_n or_o jurisdiction_n i_o pray_v make_v i_o a_o little_a better_o acquaint_v with_o this_o character_n for_o at_o present_a i_o can_v neither_o read_v nor_o understand_v it_o r._n p._n yes_o yes_o this_o you_o will_v be_v always_o at_o to_o make_v we_o explain_v our_o school-notion_n for_o you_o to_o fleer_v and_o to_o mock_v at_o they_o p.d._n but_o this_o i_o perceive_v be_v very_o material_a to_o prevent_v intolerable_a error_n and_o mistake_n and_o for_o all_o that_o you_o know_v i_o may_v come_v to_o be_v a_o writer_n of_o controversy_n and_o then_o i_o will_v not_o be_v hoot_v at_o for_o my_o ignorance_n nor_o have_v the_o boy_n point_v at_o i_o in_o the_o street_n and_o say_v there_o go_v a_o man_n that_o do_v not_o understand_v the_o character_n which_o in_o my_o mind_n will_v sound_v as_o ill_o as_o say_v there_o go_v one_o that_o can_v read_v his_o a._n b._n c._n i_o beseech_v you_o sir_n tell_v i_o what_o this_o indelible_a character_n be_v for_o to_o tell_v you_o truth_n i_o have_v hear_v of_o it_o before_o but_o never_o meet_v with_o one_o who_o can_v tell_v what_o it_o be_v r._n p._n yes_o that_o be_v it_o you_o will_v not_o believe_v a_o thing_n unless_o one_o can_v tell_v you_o what_o it_o be_v why_o it_o be_v a_o mark_n or_o a_o seal_n imprint_v in_o the_o soul_n by_o the_o sacrament_n of_o order_n that_o can_v never_o be_v blot_v out_o and_o therefore_o ordination_n be_v valid_a because_o if_o re-ordination_a be_v allow_v one_o character_n will_v be_v put_v upon_o another_o and_o so_o the_o first_o will_v be_v blot_v out_o do_v not_o you_o understand_v it_o now_o p._n d._n i_o suppose_v altogether_o as_o well_o as_o you_o be_v it_o a_o physical_a kind_n of_o thing_n just_a like_o the_o stroke_n of_o a_o pen_n upon_o paper_n or_o rather_o as_o the_o grave_v of_o a_o carver_n upon_o stone_n so_o artificial_o do_v that_o it_o can_v never_o be_v take_v out_o while_o it_o continue_v whole_a or_o be_v it_o only_o a_o moral_a relative_a thing_n depend_v upon_o divine_a institution_n and_o only_o on_o the_o account_n of_o distinction_n call_v a_o character_n r._n p._n without_o doubt_v it_o be_v a_o absolute_a thing_n but_o whether_o to_o call_v it_o a_o habit_n or_o a_o power_n whether_o it_o be_v a_o quality_n of_o the_o first_o or_o the_o second_o or_o the_o three_o or_o four_o kind_n that_o our_o divine_n be_v not_o agree_v upon_o and_o some_o think_v it_o be_v a_o new_a kind_n of_o quality_n nor_o whether_o it_o be_v imprint_v on_o the_o essence_n or_o power_n of_o the_o soul_n and_o if_o in_o the_o faculty_n whether_o in_o the_o understanding_n or_o will_n but_o it_o be_v enough_o for_o we_o to_o believe_v that_o there_o be_v real_o such_o a_o absolute_a indelible_a character_n imprint_v on_o the_o soul_n from_o whence_o that_o sacrament_n can_v never_o be_v reiterated_a which_o do_v imprint_v a_o character_n as_o that_o of_o order_n do_v p._n d._n i_o be_o just_a as_o wise_a by_o all_o this_o account_n as_o i_o be_v before_o for_o the_o only_a reason_n of_o the_o point_n be_v it_o must_v needs_o be_v so_o r._n p._n yes_o the_o church_n have_v declare_v it_o in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n and_o that_o be_v instead_o of_o all_o reason_n to_o we_o p._n d._n but_o what_o be_v this_o to_o dr._n st._n must_v he_o be_v upbraid_v with_o ignorance_n error_n and_o tergiversation_n because_o he_o do_v not_o believe_v the_o indelible_a character_n on_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n r._n p._n no_o that_o be_v not_o the_o thing_n but_o because_o he_o do_v not_o understand_v the_o difference_n between_o the_o power_n of_o order_n and_o jurisdiction_n p._n d._n be_v you_o sure_a of_o that_o if_o i_o do_v not_o forget_v he_o have_v this_o very_a distinction_n in_o that_o pestilent_a book_n call_v irenicum_fw-la which_o t._n g._n hit_v he_o in_o the_o tooth_n with_o on_o all_o occasion_n r._n p._n but_o he_o do_v not_o or_o will_v not_o understand_v it_o
here_o p._n d._n yes_o he_o know_v it_o well_o enough_o but_o he_o think_v if_o he_o prove_v the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n he_o prove_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o authority_n and_o jurisdiction_n because_o the_o give_a order_n be_v part_n of_o church_n authority_n and_o authority_n be_v receive_v in_o take_v order_n and_o the_o church_n never_o allow_v one_o but_o it_o allow_v the_o other_o also_o if_o you_o have_v any_o thing_n more_o to_o say_v about_o this_o matter_n i_o be_o willing_a to_o hear_v you_o but_o as_o yet_o i_o see_v no_o reason_n for_o t._n g.'s_n clamour_n about_o such_o a_o mistake_n in_o dr._n st._n for_o i_o think_v the_o mistake_n lie_v near_a home_n r._n p._n but_o e._n w._n public_o reprove_v dr._n st._n for_o this_o mistake_n and_o yet_o after_o that_o he_o go_v on_o to_o confirm_v his_o former_a answer_n with_o new_a proof_n and_o testimony_n etc._n that_o bishop_n ordain_v by_o idolater_n be_v esteem_v valid_o ordain_v and_o do_v not_o speak_v one_o word_n in_o answer_n to_o what_o be_v object_v by_o t._n g._n viz._n that_o the_o english_a bishop_n must_v want_v lawful_a authority_n to_o exercise_v the_o power_n of_o order_n if_o their_o first_o ordainer_n be_v idolater_n and_o e._n w._n call_v it_o a_o intolerable_a mistake_n and_o t._n g._n say_v he_o have_v hear_v he_o be_v a_o main_a man_n esteem_v for_o his_o learning_n after_o repeat_v the_o word_n of_o e._n w._n at_o length_n t._n g._n very_o mild_o add_v 155._o as_o if_o he_o be_v whole_o insensible_a of_o the_o gross_a and_o intolerable_a error_n e._n w._n tax_v he_o with_o he_o run_v again_o into_o the_o same_o shameful_a mistake_n but_o say_v t._n g._n be_v the_o power_n of_o give_v order_n and_o lawful_a authority_n to_o give_v they_o 157._o so_o essential_o link_v to_o each_o other_o that_o they_o can_v be_v separate_v may_v not_o a_o bishop_n or_o priest_n remain_v so_o be_v deprive_v of_o all_o lawful_a authority_n to_o exercise_v their_o function_n for_o have_v fall_v into_o heresy_n or_o idolatry_n and_o if_o they_o have_v none_o themselves_o can_v they_o give_v it_o to_o other_o p._n d._n on_o who_o side_n the_o intolerable_a mistake_n lie_v will_v be_v best_a see_v by_o examine_v the_o force_n of_o what_o t._n g._n say_v as_o to_o e._n w._n the_o matter_n be_v not_o great_a which_o lie_v i_o suppose_v in_o this_o that_o those_o who_o do_v fall_v into_o idolatry_n or_o heresy_n may_v ordain_v valid_o for_o say_v he_o from_o estiâ—s_n no_o crime_n or_o censure_v soever_o can_v hinder_v the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n by_o a_o bishop_n but_o he_o may_v be_v deprive_v of_o any_o lawful_a authority_n to_o do_v it_o and_o therefore_o can_v convey_v this_o lawful_a authority_n to_o other_o ordain_v by_o he_o from_o hence_o t._n g._n say_v no_o crime_n can_v hinder_v the_o validity_n of_o ordination_n but_o idolatry_n he_o say_v do_v ipso_fw-la facto_fw-la deprive_v bishop_n of_o the_o authority_n of_o exercise_v order_n or_o convey_v jurisdiction_n and_o therefore_o though_o the_o ordination_n of_o the_o bishop_n of_o england_n may_v be_v valid_a yet_o their_o jurisdiction_n can_v be_v lawful_a and_o so_o the_o foundation_n of_o their_o authority_n be_v subvert_v by_o the_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n i_o hope_v you_o will_v allow_v this_o to_o be_v the_o force_n of_o all_o that_o t._n g._n say_v r._n p._n yes_o now_o you_o have_v hit_v upon_o his_o right_a meaning_n p._n d._n let_v we_o then_o consider_v more_o close_o on_o which_o side_n the_o mistake_n lie_v which_o will_v be_v discern_v by_o this_o whether_o we_o be_v to_o follow_v the_o modern_a school_n or_o the_o judgement_n of_o antiquity_n in_o this_o matter_n for_o dr._n st._n speak_v according_a to_o the_o sense_n and_o practice_n of_o antiquity_n and_o t._n g._n according_a to_o the_o modern_a notion_n and_o distinction_n of_o their_o school_n it_o be_v true_a their_o schoolman_n have_v so_o distinguish_v the_o power_n of_o order_n and_o jurisdiction_n that_o they_o make_v the_o one_o to_o depend_v upon_o a_o indelible_a unintelligible_a character_n which_o no_o crime_n can_v hinder_v have_v its_o valid_a effect_n but_o that_o jurisdiction_n or_o the_o right_n of_o excommunication_n and_o absolution_n may_v be_v suspend_v or_o take_v away_o since_o the_o council_n of_o florence_n and_o trent_n this_o doctrine_n of_o the_o indelible_a character_n give_v in_o order_n be_v not_o to_o be_v dispute_v among_o they_o and_o therefore_o they_o hold_v the_o character_n to_o remain_v wherever_o order_n be_v receive_v in_o the_o due_a form_n but_o then_o they_o say_v this_o character_n be_v capable_a of_o such_o restraint_n by_o the_o power_n of_o the_o church_n that_o it_o remain_v like_o aristotle_n first_o matter_n a_o dull_a and_o unactive_a thing_n till_o the_o church_n give_v a_o new_a form_n to_o it_o and_o this_o they_o call_v the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n but_o that_o all_o this_o be_v new_a doctrine_n in_o the_o church_n and_o a_o late_a monkish_a invention_n will_v appear_v by_o these_o consideration_n 1._o how_o long_o it_o be_v before_o this_o doctrine_n be_v receive_v in_o the_o church_n by_o the_o confession_n of_o their_o own_o schoolman_n scotus_n and_o biel_n and_o cajetan_a 1._o no_o inconsiderable_a man_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n do_v confess_v that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o character_n imprint_v in_o the_o soul_n can_v neither_o be_v prove_v from_o scripture_n nor_o father_n but_o only_o from_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o not_o very_o ancient_a neither_o 4._o and_o morinus_n take_v notice_n that_o it_o be_v not_o so_o much_o as_o mention_v by_o p._n lombard_n or_o hugo_n de_fw-fr sancto_fw-la victore_fw-la although_o they_o debate_v those_o very_a question_n which_o will_v have_v require_v their_o express_v it_o if_o they_o have_v know_v any_o thing_n of_o it_o 2._o how_o many_o of_o their_o schoolman_n who_o do_v acknowledge_v the_o character_n of_o priesthood_n yet_o make_v the_o power_n of_o order_n to_o belong_v to_o jurisdiction_n so_o albertus_n magnus_n and_o other_o cite_v by_o morinus_n but_o alex._n alensis_n carry_v this_o point_n so_o far_o that_o he_o say_v that_o because_o of_o the_o indelible_a character_n of_o priesthood_n the_o power_n can_v never_o be_v take_v from_o a_o priest_n but_o only_o the_o execution_n of_o it_o 2._o but_o in_o a_o bishop_n there_o be_v no_o new_a character_n imprint_v and_o therefore_o in_o the_o degrade_n he_o not_o only_o the_o execution_n but_o the_o power_n of_o give_v order_n be_v take_v away_o and_o scotus_n say_v if_o a_o bishop_n be_v excommunicate_v 3_o he_o lose_v the_o power_n of_o give_v order_n if_o episcopacy_n be_v not_o a_o distinct_a order_n as_o you_o know_v many_o of_o the_o schoolman_n hold_v and_o morinus_n grant_v 13._o that_o if_o episcopacy_n be_v not_o a_o distinct_a order_n but_o a_o large_a commission_n the_o power_n of_o bishop_n may_v be_v so_o limit_v by_o the_o church_n as_o not_o only_o to_o hinder_v they_o from_o a_o lawful_a authority_n but_o from_o a_o power_n of_o act_v so_o that_o what_o they_o do_v carry_v no_o validity_n along_o with_o it_o 3._o how_o many_o before_o the_o day_n of_o the_o schoolman_n be_v of_o opinion_n that_o the_o censure_n of_o the_o church_n do_v take_v away_o the_o power_n of_o order_n gratian_n hold_v it_o most_o agreeable_a to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o father_n that_o a_o bishop_n degrade_v have_v no_o power_n to_o give_v order_n 97._o although_o he_o have_v to_o baptise_v only_o for_o s._n augustine_n sake_n he_o think_v they_o may_v distinguish_v between_o the_o power_n and_o the_o execution_n of_o it_o gul._n parisiensis_fw-la say_v that_o bishop_n depose_v can_v confer_v no_o order_n 7._o because_o the_o church_n have_v the_o same_o power_n in_o take_v away_o which_o it_o have_v in_o give_v and_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o church_n be_v to_o take_v away_o their_o power_n if_o what_o t._n g._n assert_n have_v be_v always_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n i_o desire_v he_o to_o resolve_v i_o these_o question_n 1._o why_o pope_n lucius_n 3_o do_v re-ordain_a those_o who_o have_v be_v ordain_v by_o octavianus_n the_o antipope_n 2._o why_o vrban_n 2._o declare_v nezelon_n or_o wecilo_n a_o excommunicate_a bishop_n of_o mentz_n to_o have_v no_o power_n of_o give_v order_n and_o that_o upon_o t._n g.'s_n own_o maxim_n that_o which_o a_o man_n have_v not_o he_o can_v give_v to_o another_o because_o he_o be_v ordain_v by_o heretic_n 3._o why_o the_o synod_n of_o quintilinberg_n under_o greg._n 7._o declare_v all_o ordination_n to_o be_v null_a which_o be_v make_v by_o excommunicate_v bishop_n 4._o why_o leo_n 9_o in_o a_o synod_n void_v all_o simoniacal_a ordination_n 5._o why_o stephanus_n 6._o re-ordained_n those_o which_o be_v ordain_v by_o formosus_fw-la 6._o
of_o patience_n p._n d._n not_o i_o assure_v you_o when_o i_o meet_v with_o any_o thing_n that_o deserve_v it_o r._n p._n here_o come_v our_o fanatic_a friend_n to_o refresh_v you_o a_o little_a what_o be_v the_o matter_n man_n why_o so_o sad_a have_v you_o meet_v with_o a_o ill_a bargain_n at_o the_o auction_n f._n c._n no_o no._n i_o get_v a_o book_n last_o night_n have_v take_v i_o up_o till_o this_o time_n and_o true_o i_o have_v read_v something_o in_o it_o which_o fit_v much_o upon_o my_o spirit_n r._n p._n what_o be_v it_o if_o we_o may_v ask_v you_o f._n c._n it_o be_v no_o comfort_n either_o to_o you_o or_o i_o r._n p._n if_o i_o be_v concern_v i_o pray_v let_v i_o know_v f._n c._n you_o know_v last_o night_n we_o hear_v they_o at_o rutherford_n and_o gillespee_n i_o come_v in_o time_n enough_o for_o gillespee_n miscellany_n question_n a_o rare_a book_n i_o promise_v you_o and_o by_o a_o particular_a favour_n i_o carry_v it_o home_o with_o i_o and_o look_v upon_o the_o content_n i_o find_v the_o seasonable_a case_n viz._n about_o association_n and_o confederacy_n with_o idolater_n infidel_n or_o heretic_n and_o he_o prove_v they_o to_o be_v so_o absolute_o unlawful_a from_o scripture_n and_o many_o sound_a orthodox_n divine_n that_o for_o my_o part_n he_o have_v full_o convince_v and_o settle_v i_o and_o i_o think_v it_o my_o duty_n to_o come_v and_o to_o tell_v you_o so_o r._n p._n well_o we_o will_v let_v alone_o that_o discourse_n at_o present_a we_o be_v at_o our_o old_a trade_n again_o and_o i_o be_v just_a come_n to_o a_o seasonable_a question_n for_o you_o viz._n whether_o you_o have_v not_o as_o much_o reason_n to_o separate_v from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n as_o the_o church_n of_o england_n have_v from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n f._n c._n who_o doubt_v of_o that_o p._n d._n i_o do_v sir_n nay_o more_o i_o absolute_o deny_v it_o f._n c._n what_o matter_n be_v it_o what_o you_o say_v or_o deny_v you_o will_v do_v either_o for_o a_o good_a preferment_n have_v not_o you_o assent_v and_o consent_v to_o all_o that_o be_v in_o the_o book_n of_o common_a prayer_n and_o what_o will_v you_o stick_v at_o after_o p._n d._n consider_v sir_n what_o it_o be_v to_o judge_v rash_a judgement_n i_o wonder_v man_n that_o pretend_v to_o conscience_n and_o seem_v so_o nice_a and_o scrupulous_a in_o some_o thing_n can_v allow_v thmselves_fw-mi in_o the_o practice_n of_o so_o dangerous_a a_o sin_n if_o you_o have_v a_o mind_n to_o debate_v this_o point_n before_o we_o without_o clamour_n and_o impertinency_n i_o be_o for_o you_o f._n c._n you_o will_v fain_o draw_v i_o in_o to_o dispute_v again_o will_v you_o no_o such_o matter_n there_o be_v your_o man_n he_o will_v manage_v our_o cause_n for_o we_o against_o you_o of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n i_o warrant_v you_o r._n p._n i_o be_o provide_v for_o it_o for_o t._n g._n desire_n of_o dr._n st._n for_o the_o sake_n of_o the_o presbyterian_o anabaptist_n 78._o and_o other_o separate_a congregation_n to_o know_v why_o the_o believe_a all_o the_o ancient_a creed_n and_o lead_v a_o good_a life_n may_v not_o be_v sufficient_a to_o salvation_n unless_o one_o be_v of_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n p._n d._n a_o very_a doughty_a question_n as_o though_o we_o be_v like_o you_o and_o immediate_o damn_v all_o person_n who_o be_v not_o of_o the_o communion_n of_o our_o church_n we_o say_v their_o separation_n from_o we_o be_v very_o unjust_a and_o unreasonable_a and_o that_o there_o be_v no_o colour_n for_o make_v their_o case_n equal_a with_o we_o as_o to_o the_o separation_n from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n r._n p._n i_o will_v tell_v you_o of_o a_o man_n who_o make_v the_o case_n parallel_n it_o be_v one_o dr._n st._n in_o his_o irenicum_fw-la and_o t._n g._n produce_v many_o page_n out_o of_o he_o to_o that_o purpose_n 79._o p._n d._n to_o save_v you_o the_o trouble_n of_o repeat_v they_o i_o have_v read_v they_o over_o and_o do_v think_v these_o answer_n may_v serve_v for_o his_o vindication_n 1._o that_o in_o that_o very_a place_n he_o make_v separation_n from_o a_o church_n retain_v purity_n of_o doctrine_n on_o the_o account_n of_o some_o corrupt_a practice_n to_o be_v unlawful_a and_o afterward_o in_o case_n man_n be_v unsatisfied_a as_o to_o some_o condition_n of_o communion_n 123._o he_o deny_v it_o to_o be_v lawful_a to_o erect_v new_a church_n because_o a_o mere_a require_v conformity_n in_o some_o suspect_a rite_n do_v not_o make_v a_o church_n otherwise_o sound_a to_o be_v no_o true_a church_n or_o such_o a_o church_n from_o which_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o make_v a_o total_a separation_n which_o be_v then_o do_v when_o man_n enter_v into_o a_o new_a and_o distinct_a society_n for_o worship_n under_o distinct_a and_o peculiar_a officer_n govern_v by_o law_n and_o church_n rule_v different_a from_o those_o of_o the_o church_n they_o separate_v from_o and_o now_o let_v your_o fanatic_a friend_n judge_n whether_o this_o man_n even_o in_o the_o day_n of_o write_v his_o irenicum_fw-la do_v justify_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o separate_a congregation_n which_o he_o speak_v express_o against_o f._n c._n no_o true_o we_o be_v all_o now_o for_o separate_a congregation_n and_o know_v better_a what_o we_o have_v to_o do_v than_o our_o forefather_n do_v alas_o what_o comfort_n be_v there_o in_o bare_a nonconformity_n for_o our_o people_n will_v not_o endure_v we_o if_o we_o do_v not_o proceed_v to_o separation_n he_o that_o speak_v against_o separation_n ruin_v we_o and_o our_o cause_n p._n d._n so_o far_o then_o we_o have_v clear_v dr._n st._n from_o patronise_a the_o cause_n of_o the_o separate_a congregation_n 2._o he_o say_v that_o as_o to_o thing_n leave_v undetermined_a by_o the_o law_n of_o god_n in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o primitive_a and_o reform_a church_n 124._o and_o in_o matter_n of_o order_n decency_n and_o government_n every_o one_o notwithstanding_o what_o his_o 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pretend_v to_o answer_v in_o these_o dialogue_n and_o he_o do_v not_o speak_v of_o it_o by_o the_o by_o but_o discourse_v large_o about_o it_o be_v this_o fair_a deal_n but_o the_o irenicum_fw-la serve_v better_a for_o his_o purpose_n as_o he_o think_v and_o yet_o he_o have_v foul_o misrepresent_v that_o too_o r._n p._n but_o yet_o dr._n st._n must_v not_o think_v to_o escape_v so_o for_o he_o have_v search_v another_o book_n of_o he_o call_v his_o rational_a account_n and_o there_o he_o find_v a_o passage_n he_o think_v in_o favour_n to_o dissenter_n from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n 87._o and_o which_o undermine_v the_o church_n of_o england_n p._n d._n therefore_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v not_o guilty_a of_o idolatry_n r._n p._n have_v a_o little_a patience_n
observe_v what_o the_o common_a people_n do_v to_o imagine_v that_o they_o place_v no_o sanctity_n virtue_n or_o divinity_n in_o their_o image_n when_o they_o walk_v so_o many_o mile_n barefoot_a to_o a_o certain_a image_n of_o our_o lady_n when_o they_o creep_v upon_o their_o bare_a knee_n towards_o it_o when_o they_o make_v formal_a supplication_n to_o the_o image_n with_o as_o much_o ceremony_n as_o if_o the_o person_n they_o represent_v be_v present_a when_o they_o look_v with_o so_o much_o submission_n and_o devotion_n towards_o they_o when_o they_o come_v with_o such_o mighty_a expectation_n of_o relief_n and_o help_n from_o they_o when_o they_o tell_v story_n of_o so_o many_o miracle_n which_o have_v be_v wrought_v by_o they_o nay_o when_o their_o learned_a man_n who_o shall_v have_v more_o wit_n or_o honesty_n write_v book_n on_o purpose_n to_o heighten_v these_o folly_n and_o madness_n of_o the_o people_n can_v you_o with_o any_o face_n say_v there_o be_v not_o so_o much_o danger_n in_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n as_o in_o the_o worship_n of_o the_o creature_n i_o do_v not_o expect_v after_o what_o dr._n st._n have_v represent_v in_o this_o matter_n t._n g._n shall_v have_v give_v so_o wretched_a a_o answer_n as_o this_o for_o if_o this_o be_v all_o to_o keep_v man_n from_o the_o relative_n worship_n of_o creature_n i_o dare_v affirm_v that_o most_o of_o the_o father_n argument_n against_o this_o sort_n of_o idolatry_n be_v very_o weak_a and_o feeble_a and_o that_o they_o do_v not_o reach_v the_o philosophical_a and_o contemplative_a man_n but_o only_o the_o dull_a and_o stupid_a vulgar_a that_o there_o be_v nothing_o of_o real_a idolatry_n in_o their_o worship_n of_o the_o creature_n but_o only_a danger_n to_o the_o common_a people_n and_o scandal_n to_o the_o weak_a name_v i_o that_o christian_a who_o through_o all_o the_o primitive_a church_n ever_o let_v fall_v a_o expression_n to_o this_o purpose_n it_o be_v idolatry_n downright_a idolatry_n they_o charge_v they_o with_o in_o the_o worship_n of_o the_o creature_n and_o not_o any_o mere_a scandalous_a compliance_n with_o the_o ignorant_a vulgar_a if_o this_o have_v be_v all_o they_o mean_v for_o all_o that_o i_o can_v see_v the_o work_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o primitive_a christian_n have_v be_v to_o have_v inform_v they_o only_o of_o the_o true_a god_n who_o they_o be_v to_o worship_v in_o the_o creature_n and_o if_o all_o the_o people_n be_v once_o thorough_o inform_v of_o this_o all_o the_o ancient_a rite_n of_o worship_n may_v have_v continue_v they_o may_v have_v still_o bake_v cake_n to_o the_o queen_n of_o heaven_n and_o worship_v the_o whole_a host_n of_o heaven_n they_o may_v have_v continue_v their_o devotion_n to_o the_o earth_n and_o fire_n and_o tree_n and_o fountain_n if_o they_o do_v but_o direct_v their_o worship_n through_o they_o to_o god_n what_o mean_v all_o those_o say_n of_o father_n all_o those_o canon_n of_o council_n wherein_o this_o very_a manner_n of_o worship_n be_v condemn_v for_o idolatry_n etc._n as_o dr._n st._n have_v in_o part_n show_v speak_v out_o gentleman_n and_o let_v we_o know_v what_o you_o think_v of_o the_o primitive_a church_n which_o so_o free_o condemn_v this_o relative_n worship_n but_o never_o imagine_v that_o we_o will_v be_v guide_v by_o your_o modern_a school_n or_o the_o doctrine_n of_o your_o church_n in_o these_o thing_n against_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o whole_a primitive_a christian_a church_n who_o father_n you_o must_v condemn_v as_o child_n and_o who_o martyr_n you_o must_v look_v on_o as_o fool_n if_o your_o doctrine_n of_o relative_n worship_v be_v allow_v for_o most_o of_o those_o who_o suffer_v martyrdom_n may_v have_v escape_v if_o they_o have_v allow_v these_o principle_n of_o relative_n worship_n no_o more_o be_v require_v of_o they_o but_o to_o do_v as_o the_o rest_n do_v to_o burn_v a_o little_a incense_n in_o obedience_n to_o the_o law_n to_o make_v some_o customary_a libation_n before_o the_o emperor_n image_n to_o make_v the_o common_a supplication_n at_o the_o temple_n of_o vesta_n or_o ceres_n or_o any_o other_o of_o the_o god_n which_o the_o philosopher_n understand_v of_o the_o several_a part_n of_o the_o world_n and_o may_v they_o not_o have_v do_v all_o these_o thing_n and_o refer_v the_o worship_n ultimate_o to_o the_o true_a god_n i_o do_v not_o think_v this_o so_o trifle_v a_o matter_n as_o t._n g._n make_v it_o but_o i_o think_v the_o honour_n of_o christianity_n and_o of_o the_o primitive_a martyr_n deep_o concern_v in_o it_o and_o i_o wish_v you_o not_o to_o maintain_v your_o foolery_n upon_o such_o principle_n as_o reflect_v dishonour_n upon_o christianity_n itself_o r._n p._n methinks_v the_o speak_a trumpet_n have_v rouse_v you_o and_o put_v you_o into_o a_o fit_a of_o furious_a zeal_n p._n d._n no_o sir_n i_o do_v assure_v you_o it_o be_v the_o honour_n i_o have_v for_o christianity_n which_o have_v make_v i_o speak_v thus_o warm_o for_o i_o be_o very_o unwilling_a to_o have_v the_o primitive_a christian_n to_o suffer_v as_o fool_n and_o as_o weak_a brethren_n r._n p._n but_o t._n g._n say_v from_o vossius_fw-la that_o the_o gentile_n conclude_v nature_n itself_o to_o be_v god_n 204._o and_o the_o part_n of_o it_o also_o to_o be_v deity_n and_o that_o they_o forsake_v god_n and_o staid_a in_o the_o worship_n of_o nature_n p._n d._n some_o person_n not_o inferior_a to_o vossius_fw-la for_o learning_n or_o judgement_n in_o these_o matter_n do_v suppose_v it_o to_o be_v a_o great_a mistake_n in_o he_o to_o make_v the_o gentile_n worship_v inanimate_a nature_n for_o a_o true_a god_n which_o say_v they_o be_v in_o plain_a term_n to_o make_v they_o atheist_n for_o than_o they_o must_v own_v nothing_o but_o mere_a matter_n in_o the_o world_n and_o to_o what_o purpose_n man_n shall_v worship_v a_o inanimate_a senseless_a be_v it_o be_v very_o hard_a to_o understand_v it_o be_v therefore_o much_o more_o probable_a that_o 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stand_v to_o it_o that_o there_o be_v more_o danger_n in_o worship_v the_o creature_n 206._o than_o in_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n because_o the_o creature_n be_v not_o so_o apparent_o representative_a of_o god_n as_o a_o image_n be_v of_o the_o person_n represent_v by_o it_o which_o carry_v the_o thought_n present_o and_o effectual_o to_o he_o but_o the_o other_o need_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o discourse_n to_o discover_v the_o analogy_n they_o bear_v to_o the_o creator_n and_o the_o dependence_n they_o have_v of_o he_o for_o their_o very_a be_v yet_o so_o that_o from_o the_o greatness_n and_o beauty_n of_o the_o creature_n the_o maker_n of_o they_o may_v proportionable_o be_v see_v p._n d._n to_o this_o dr._n st._n give_v a_o full_a answer_n 806._o when_o he_o say_v that_o in_o a_o object_n of_o worship_n we_o be_v not_o so_o much_o to_o consider_v the_o quickness_n of_o representation_n as_o the_o perfection_n represent_v although_o therefore_o a_o image_n may_v carry_v one_o 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work_n which_o be_v neither_o from_o mathematical_a demonstration_n nor_o supernatural_a infallibility_n he_o call_v moral_a certainty_n which_o he_o may_v do_v from_o these_o ground_n 1._o because_o the_o force_n of_o the_o argument_n from_o the_o creature_n depend_v upon_o some_o moral_a principle_n viz._n from_o the_o suitableness_n and_o fitness_n of_o thing_n to_o the_o wisdom_n of_o a_o intelligent_a and_o infinite_a agent_n who_o may_v from_o thence_o be_v infer_v to_o be_v the_o maker_n of_o they_o it_o be_v unconceivable_a that_o mere_a matter_n shall_v ever_o produce_v thing_n in_o so_o much_o beauty_n order_n and_o usefulness_n as_o we_o see_v in_o every_o creature_n in_o a_o ant_n or_o a_o fly_n as_o much_o as_o in_o the_o vast_a body_n of_o the_o heaven_n 2._o because_o they_o do_v suppose_v some_o moral_a disposition_n in_o the_o person_n who_o do_v most_o ready_o and_o firm_o assent_v to_o these_o truth_n for_o although_o man_n make_v use_v of_o the_o high_a title_n 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be_v some_o principle_n relate_v to_o it_o which_o have_v metaphysical_a certainty_n in_o they_o as_o that_o whatever_o god_n reveal_v be_v impossible_a to_o be_v false_a or_o as_o it_o be_v common_o express_v though_o improper_o be_v infallible_o true_a 2._o that_o there_o be_v a_o rational_a certainty_n that_o a_o doctrine_n confirm_v by_o such_o miracle_n as_o be_v wrought_v by_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n must_v come_v from_o god_n that_o be_v the_o most_o certain_a criterion_n of_o divine_a revelation_n 3._o that_o there_o be_v a_o physical_a certainty_n of_o the_o truth_n of_o christ_n miracle_n and_o resurrection_n from_o the_o dead_a in_o the_o apostle_n who_o be_v eye-witness_n of_o they_o 4._o that_o there_o be_v a_o infallible_a certainty_n in_o the_o apostle_n deliver_v this_o doctrine_n to_o the_o world_n and_o write_v it_o for_o the_o benefit_n of_o the_o church_n in_o all_o age_n 5._o that_o we_o have_v a_o moral_a certainty_n of_o the_o matter_n of_o fact_n which_o do_v concern_v the_o doctrine_n the_o miracle_n and_o the_o book_n of_o scripture_n which_o be_v of_o the_o same_o kind_n with_o the_o certainty_n those_o have_v of_o christ_n doctrine_n and_o miracle_n who_o live_v in_o mesopotamia_n at_o that_o time_n which_o must_v depend_v upon_o the_o credibility_n of_o the_o witness_n who_o convey_v these_o thing_n which_o be_v a_o moral_a consideration_n and_o therefore_o the_o certainty_n which_o be_v take_v from_o it_o may_v be_v proper_o call_v moral_a certainty_n of_o which_o there_o be_v many_o degree_n the_o high_a be_v here_o understand_v which_o any_o matter_n of_o fact_n be_v capable_a of_o and_o now_o i_o pray_v tell_v i_o what_o reason_n have_v there_o be_v for_o all_o this_o noise_n about_o moral_a certainty_n r._n p._n t._n g._n own_v that_o the_o dr._n in_o other_o place_n do_v acknowledge_v a_o true_a certainty_n of_o the_o principle_n of_o religion_n but_o he_o say_v he_o can_v say_v and_o unsay_v without_o retract_v 209._o with_o as_o much_o art_n and_o ease_n as_o any_o man_n he_o ever_o read_v p._n d._n i_o have_v think_v unsay_n have_v be_v retract_v but_o dr._n st._n say_v as_o much_o in_o those_o very_a place_n t._n g._n object_n against_o as_o in_o those_o he_o allow_v only_a t._n g._n delight_n in_o cavil_v above_o most_o author_n i_o have_v ever_o read_v r._n p._n but_o do_v not_o dr._n st._n allow_v a_o possibility_n of_o falsehood_n notwithstanding_o all_o this_o pretence_n of_o certainty_n 210._o p._n d._n whatever_o be_v true_a be_v impossible_a to_o be_v false_a and_o the_o same_o degree_n of_o evidence_n any_o one_o have_v of_o the_o truth_n of_o a_o thing_n he_o have_v of_o the_o impossibility_n of_o the_o falsehood_n of_o it_o therefore_o he_o that_o have_v a_o undoubted_a certainty_n of_o the_o truth_n of_o christianity_n have_v the_o same_o certainty_n that_o it_o be_v impossible_a it_o shall_v be_v false_a and_o because_o possibility_n and_o impossibility_n be_v capable_a of_o the_o same_o distinction_n that_o certainty_n be_v therefore_o according_a to_o the_o nature_n and_o degree_n of_o certainty_n be_v the_o possibility_n or_o impossibility_n of_o falsehood_n that_o which_o be_v metaphysical_o certain_a be_v so_o impossible_a to_o be_v false_a that_o it_o imply_v a_o contradiction_n to_o be_v otherwise_o but_o it_o be_v not_o so_o in_o physical_a certainty_n nor_o in_o all_o rational_a certainty_n nor_o in_o moral_a and_o yet_o wherever_o any_o man_n be_v certain_a of_o the_o truth_n of_o a_o thing_n he_o be_v proportionable_o certain_a that_o it_o be_v impossible_a to_o be_v false_a r._n p._n this_o only_o relate_v to_o the_o person_n and_o not_o to_o the_o evidence_n be_v there_o any_o such_o evidence_n of_o the_o existence_n of_o a_o deity_n as_o can_v infallible_o convince_v it_o to_o be_v absolute_o true_a and_o so_o impossible_a to_o be_v false_a p._n d._n i_o do_v not_o doubt_v but_o that_o there_o be_v such_o evidence_n of_o the_o be_v of_o god_n as_o do_v prove_v it_o to_o any_o unprejudiced_a mind_n impossible_a to_o be_v otherwise_o and_o t._n g._n have_v no_o reason_n to_o doubt_v of_o this_o from_o any_o thing_n dr._n st._n have_v say_v who_o have_v endeavour_v so_o early_o to_o prove_v the_o be_v of_o god_n and_o the_o principle_n of_o christian_a faith_n 3_o before_o he_o set_v himself_o to_o consider_v the_o controversy_n which_o have_v happen_v in_o the_o christian_a church_n t._n g._n therefore_o may_v well_o have_v spare_v these_o reflection_n in_o a_o debate_n of_o so_o different_a a_o nature_n but_o that_o he_o be_v glad_a of_o a_o opportunity_n to_o go_v off_o from_o the_o business_n as_o man_n be_v that_o know_v they_o be_v not_o like_a to_o bring_v it_o to_o a_o good_a issue_n r._n p._n t._n g._n confess_v this_o be_v a_o digression_n but_o he_o promise_v to_o return_v to_o the_o matter_n and_o so_o he_o do_v i_o assure_v you_o for_o he_o come_v to_o the_o second_o thing_n which_o he_o say_v the_o dr._n ought_v to_o have_v do_v 213._o viz._n to_o have_v show_v how_o the_o notion_n of_o idolatry_n do_v agree_v to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o her_o council_n p._n d._n it_o be_v a_o wonder_n to_o i_o you_o shall_v think_v he_o defective_a in_o this_o when_o he_o show_v that_o there_o be_v two_o thing_n from_o whence_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v to_o be_v take_v 1._o from_o the_o definition_n of_o council_n 2._o from_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n 1._o from_o the_o definition_n of_o council_n and_o here_o 605._o he_o enter_v upon_o the_o consideration_n of_o what_o that_o worship_n be_v which_o be_v require_v to_o be_v give_v to_o image_n and_o show_v from_o the_o word_n of_o the_o council_n and_o from_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o most_o eminent_a divine_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n that_o it_o be_v not_o enough_o to_o worship_v before_o image_n and_o to_o have_v a_o intention_n to_o perform_v those_o external_a act_n but_o there_o must_v be_v a_o inward_a intention_n to_o worship_v the_o image_n themselves_o and_o that_o the_o contrary_a doctrine_n be_v esteem_v little_o better_a than_o downright_a heresy_n 2._o from_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n for_o he_o show_v many_o of_o your_o best_a divine_n go_v upon_o this_o principle_n that_o god_n will_v not_o suffer_v his_o church_n to_o err_v and_o therefore_o they_o think_v the_o allow_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n sufficient_a for_o they_o to_o defend_v those_o thing_n to_o be_v lawful_a which_o they_o see_v general_o practise_v and_o from_o hence_o he_o make_v it_o appear_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v go_v beyond_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a in_o two_o thing_n 1._o in_o make_v and_o worship_v image_n of_o god_n and_o the_o b._n trinity_n which_o be_v 575._o esteem_v madness_n and_o pagan_a idolatry_n in_o the_o time_n of_o the_o
second_o council_n of_o nice_a and_o be_v justify_v by_o the_o modern_a divine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n from_o the_o general_a practice_n of_o their_o church_n 2._o in_o give_v the_o worship_n of_o latria_n to_o image_n 639._o which_o be_v condemn_v by_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a and_o notwithstanding_o be_v defend_v by_o multitude_n of_o divine_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n from_o the_o allow_a practice_n in_o the_o worship_n of_o the_o cross_n both_o before_o and_o after_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n after_o which_o he_o inquire_v at_o large_a into_o the_o public_a office_n and_o commend_v devotion_n of_o that_o church_n in_o respect_n to_o image_n and_o from_o thence_o he_o 699._o prove_v that_o 1._o as_o to_o consecration_n of_o image_n for_o worship_n 2._o as_o to_o the_o rite_n of_o supplication_n to_o they_o 3._o as_o to_o pompous_a procession_n with_o they_o the_o modern_a church_n of_o rome_n do_v not_o fall_v short_a of_o the_o practice_n of_o pagan_a rome_n and_o do_v you_o think_v all_o this_o be_v not_o apply_v the_o notion_n of_o idolatry_n home_o to_o the_o roman_a church_n when_o 1._o he_o show_v by_o the_o principle_n of_o the_o second_o council_n of_o nice_a the_o modern_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v chargeable_a with_o idolatry_n 2._o that_o the_o practice_n agreeable_a with_o that_o council_n be_v charge_v with_o idolatry_n by_o the_o western_a church_n in_o the_o council_n of_o francford_n not_o from_o any_o mistake_n of_o their_o meaning_n but_o because_o they_o look_v on_o the_o worship_n then_o decree_v to_o be_v proper_a adoration_n r._n p._n 214._o but_o t._n g._n say_v if_o the_o worship_n define_v by_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a be_v inferior_a worship_n and_o not_o latria_n as_o dr._n st._n confess_v than_o nothing_o can_v be_v clear_a than_o that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o worship_n due_a to_o god_n and_o consequent_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n can_v be_v chargeable_a with_o idolatry_n from_o any_o thing_n contain_v in_o that_o decree_n p._n d._n will_n t._n g._n never_o understand_v the_o difference_n between_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o person_n and_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o act_n they_o may_v declare_v it_o to_o be_v only_o inferior_a worship_n but_o the_o council_n of_o francford_n take_v it_o to_o be_v proper_a adoration_n which_o be_v due_a only_o to_o god_n and_o if_o that_o council_n judgement_n must_v stand_v all_o those_o in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n who_o give_v latria_n to_o the_o cross_n must_v be_v guilty_a of_o idolatry_n r._n p._n do_v not_o the_o church_n of_o england_n allow_v bow_v to_o the_o altar_n which_o if_o the_o altar_n have_v any_o sense_n will_v think_v be_v do_v to_o it_o as_o t._n g._n say_v etc._n he_o be_v certain_o inform_v of_o a_o country_n fellow_n who_o be_v get_v near_o the_o altar_n in_o his_o majesty_n chapel_n think_v all_o the_o congee_n have_v be_v make_v to_o he_o and_o so_o return_v congee_n for_o congee_n and_o if_o bow_v may_v be_v use_v out_o of_o religious_a respect_n to_o the_o altar_n why_o not_o kneel_v or_o prostration_n or_o fix_v our_o eye_n in_o time_n of_o prayer_n or_o burn_a incense_n or_o light_n before_o the_o image_n of_o christ_n and_o his_o saint_n but_o how_o can_v dr._n st._n purge_v the_o church_n of_o england_n from_o idolatry_n in_o that_o practice_n when_o he_o say_v that_o any_o image_n be_v make_v so_o far_o the_o object_n of_o divine_a worship_n that_o man_n do_v bow_v down_o before_o it_o and_o he_o suppose_v the_o same_o will_v hold_v for_o any_o other_o creature_n it_o do_v thereby_o become_v a_o idol_n and_o on_o that_o account_n be_v forbid_v in_o the_o second_o commandment_n p._n d._n what_o will_v t._n g._n have_v do_v have_v it_o not_o be_v for_o this_o practice_n of_o bow_v towards_o the_o altar_n when_o yet_o he_o can_v but_o know_v that_o the_o practice_n of_o it_o be_v not_o enjoin_v by_o our_o church_n for_o the_o canon_n leave_v it_o at_o liberty_n if_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v the_o same_o about_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n the_o parallel_n will_v hold_v somewhat_o better_o but_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n declare_v religious_a worship_n be_v to_o be_v give_v to_o image_n and_o our_o church_n declare_v that_o none_o be_v to_o be_v give_v to_o the_o altar_n and_o do_v not_o this_o make_v a_o apparent_a difference_n if_o the_o country_n fellow_n stand_v without_o the_o rail_v fancy_v the_o congee_n make_v to_o himself_o what_o will_v he_o have_v do_v if_o he_o have_v stand_v within_o a_o image_n of_o our_o lady_n and_o see_v all_o the_o courtship_n that_o have_v be_v use_v towards_o she_o by_o some_o of_o her_o devote_a servant_n and_o slave_n when_o he_o behold_v the_o bare_a knee_n bleed_v the_o tear_n trickle_v the_o breast_n knock_v the_o eye_n scarce_o lift_v up_o to_o show_v the_o great_a reverence_n and_o humility_n towards_o the_o image_n what_o can_v he_o have_v think_v but_o that_o he_o be_v shut_v up_o within_o the_o bowel_n of_o the_o goddess_n they_o worship_v whereas_o if_o the_o country_n fellow_n have_v go_v up_o into_o the_o court_n and_o see_v the_o ancient_a servant_n make_v their_o reverence_n after_o dinner_n in_o the_o presence_n chamber_n he_o will_v soon_o have_v be_v better_o inform_v if_o some_o of_o the_o old_a courtier_n have_v tell_v he_o it_o be_v the_o ancient_a custom_n of_o the_o court_n to_o make_v their_o reverence_n in_o all_o chamber_n of_o presence_n and_o from_o thence_o when_o they_o go_v into_o his_o majesty_n chapel_n they_o use_v the_o same_o custom_n out_o of_o reverence_n to_o god_n almighty_a who_o presence-chamber_n they_o account_v the_o chapel_n to_o be_v what_o be_v all_o this_o to_o give_v religious_a worship_n to_o the_o altar_n wherein_o the_o force_n of_o all_o t._n g._n sai_z must_v lie_v r._n p._n but_o you_o do_v bow_n before_o the_o altar_n as_o we_o do_v before_o image_n p._n d._n i_o utter_o deny_v that_o for_o your_o church_n declare_v bow_v before_o image_n without_o a_o intention_n to_o worship_v the_o image_n be_v next_o to_o heresy_n if_o we_o be_v to_o take_v the_o sense_n of_o your_o council_n from_o their_o own_o word_n and_o the_o explication_n of_o divine_n you_o explode_v their_o doctrine_n who_o say_v that_o we_o be_v only_o to_o worship_n god_n before_o they_o and_o be_v there_o no_o difference_n between_o the_o act_n of_o these_o two_o man_n as_o to_o image_n themselves_o the_o one_o declare_v that_o he_o look_v on_o no_o religious_a worship_n as_o due_a to_o a_o image_n but_o it_o serve_v he_o only_o to_o put_v he_o in_o mind_n of_o he_o who_o be_v the_o proper_a object_n of_o worship_n and_o he_o never_o intend_v by_o any_o act_n of_o he_o to_o worship_v the_o image_n itself_o another_o say_v the_o church_n require_v image_n to_o be_v worship_v and_o for_o my_o part_n i_o think_v myself_o bind_v to_o do_v what_o the_o church_n require_v and_o therefore_o it_o be_v my_o intention_n to_o give_v worship_n not_o bare_o to_o the_o object_n represent_v but_o to_o the_o very_a image_n itself_o although_o it_o be_v on_o the_o account_n of_o its_o representation_n and_o the_o latter_a dr._n st._n have_v show_v to_o be_v the_o only_o allow_v sense_n in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o other_o reject_v either_o as_o heretical_a or_o next_o to_o it_o which_o t._n g._n never_o so_o much_o as_o once_o take_v notice_n of_o but_o however_o this_o do_v not_o reach_v our_o case_n for_o we_o believe_v the_o second_o commandment_n to_o be_v still_o in_o force_n which_o be_v express_v and_o positive_a against_o all_o worship_n of_o image_n and_o bow_v down_o to_o they_o but_o that_o which_o be_v lawful_a among_o the_o jew_n notwithstanding_o that_o precept_n viz._n to_o worship_n god_n towards_o the_o mercy_n seat_n be_v still_o lawful_a among_o christian_n viz._n to_o worship_n god_n alone_o but_o towards_o the_o altar_n and_o thus_o i_o hope_v t._n g._n will_n at_o last_o be_v bring_v a_o little_a better_a to_o understand_v the_o sense_n of_o our_o church_n in_o this_o practice_n and_o how_o far_o it_o be_v from_o be_v a_o parallel_n with_o your_o worship_n of_o image_n r._n p._n t._n g._n find_v great_a fault_n with_o dr._n st._n be_v citation_n out_o of_o card._n lugo_n about_o submission_n to_o image_n 227._o because_o he_o leave_v out_o aliquis_fw-la and_o potest_fw-la dici_fw-la and_o i_o tell_v you_o he_o make_v a_o huge_a outcry_n about_o it_o and_o fill_v up_o several_a page_n with_o it_o p._n d._n do_v he_o true_o it_o be_v a_o great_a sign_n he_o want_v matter_n to_o fill_v up_o his_o book_n but_o i_o pray_v on_o what_o occasion_n be_v this_o passage_n bring_v in_o it_o may_v be_v that_o will_v give_v we_o some_o light_n
different_a act._n if_o the_o same_o act_n then_o there_o be_v a_o double_a worship_n and_o but_o one_o act_n for_o there_o be_v a_o absolute_a worship_n of_o the_o person_n of_o christ_n and_o a_o relative_a worship_n of_o the_o image_n and_o let_v it_o be_v relative_a or_o what_o it_o will_v it_o be_v a_o real_a act_n of_o worship_n and_o so_o there_o must_v be_v two_o act_n and_o yet_o it_o be_v but_o one_o act._n for_o be_v the_o image_n or_o cross_n worship_v or_o not_o if_o it_o be_v worship_v there_o must_v be_v a_o act_n of_o worship_n terminate_v on_o it_o and_o how_o can_v there_o be_v a_o act_n of_o worship_n terminate_v upon_o it_o if_o the_o same_o act_n pass_v from_o the_o image_n to_o the_o prototype_n these_o be_v unintelligible_a subtlety_n and_o only_o invent_v to_o confound_v man_n understanding_n as_o to_o the_o true_a and_o distinct_a notion_n of_o divine_a worship_n and_o to_o blind_v their_o mind_n in_o the_o practice_n of_o idolatry_n far_o if_o this_o be_v a_o difference_n only_a de_fw-fr modo_fw-la loquendi_fw-la as_o t._n g._n say_v than_o the_o very_a same_o act_n may_v be_v proper_a and_o improper_a absolute_a and_o relative_a per_fw-la se_fw-la and_o per_fw-la accidens_fw-la for_o so_o t._n g._n say_v that_o it_o be_v one_o act_n in_o substance_n but_o it_o be_v absolute_a as_o terminate_v on_o the_o person_n of_o christ_n relative_a as_o on_o the_o cross_n proper_a in_o one_o sense_n improper_a in_o the_o other_o per_fw-la se_fw-la in_o the_o former_a sense_n per_fw-la accidens_fw-la in_o the_o late_a which_o catharinus_n think_v to_o be_v no_o less_o than_o ridiculous_a last_o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o the_o world_n but_o may_v be_v worship_v with_o latria_n by_o the_o help_n of_o these_o distinction_n for_o a_o divine_a presence_n in_o the_o creature_n be_v real_o asleep_o far_o better_a ground_n of_o worship_n than_o a_o bare_a fiction_n of_o the_o mind_n that_o the_o image_n and_o the_o thing_n represent_v be_v all_o one_o but_o of_o this_o we_o have_v discourse_v already_o r._n p._n to_o tell_v you_o plain_o my_o mind_n i_o never_o like_v this_o give_v latria_n to_o image_n myself_o but_o it_o be_v a_o common_a doctrine_n in_o our_o church_n we_o ought_v to_o say_v as_o much_o for_o it_o as_o we_o can_v but_o i_o be_o only_o for_o a_o inferior_a worship_n to_o be_v give_v to_o they_o and_o so_o be_v t._n g._n if_o i_o do_v not_o much_o mistake_v his_o meaning_n p._n d._n let_v we_o then_o consider_v this_o inferior_a worship_n as_o distinct_a from_o latria_n and_o concern_v this_o i_o shall_v prove_v that_o it_o neither_o answer_v the_o reason_n give_v by_o council_n nor_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n 1._o not_o the_o reason_n give_v by_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a and_o trent_n for_o which_o i_o desire_v but_o these_o two_o postulata_fw-la 1._o that_o image_n be_v to_o have_v true_a and_o proper_a worship_n give_v to_o they_o which_o be_v express_o determine_v by_o those_o council_n 2._o that_o the_o reason_n of_o this_o worship_n be_v nothing_o inherent_a in_o the_o image_n but_o something_o represent_v by_o it_o which_o be_v affirm_v by_o those_o council_n from_o hence_o i_o argue_v thus_o to_o worship_n christ_n only_o before_o a_o image_n be_v not_o to_o give_v proper_a worship_n to_o the_o image_n which_o the_o council_n require_v to_o be_v give_v therefore_o either_o the_o image_n be_v to_o be_v worship_v for_o itself_o which_o be_v idolatry_n by_o your_o own_o confession_n or_o christ_n be_v to_o be_v worship_v in_o and_o by_o the_o image_n r._n p._n christ_n be_v to_o be_v worship_v in_o and_o by_o the_o image_n p._n d._n then_o you_o give_v christ_n the_o worship_n due_a to_o he_o or_o not_o r._n p._n the_o worship_n due_a to_o he_o p._n d._n but_o the_o worship_n due_a to_o christ_n be_v proper_a latria_n therefore_o you_o must_v give_v proper_a latria_n to_o christ_n as_o worship_v in_o and_o by_o the_o image_n r._n p._n true_a but_o we_o give_v it_o to_o 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any_o way_n repugnant_a to_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n r._n p._n but_o t._n g._n say_v the_o term_n of_o communion_n with_o the_o church_n be_v not_o the_o opinion_n of_o her_o school-divines_a 263._o but_o the_o decree_n of_o her_o council_n p._n d._n and_o what_o then_o do_v dr._n st._n meddle_v with_o the_o school-divines_a any_o otherwise_o than_o as_o they_o explain_v the_o sense_n of_o council_n or_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n and_o what_o help_v more_o proper_a to_o understand_v these_o than_o the_o doctrine_n of_o your_o most_o learned_a divine_n t._n g._n will_v have_v one_o mr._n thorndike_n to_o speak_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n against_o the_o current_a doctrine_n of_o the_o rest_n as_o dr._n st._n have_v prove_v yet_o he_o will_v not_o allow_v so_o many_o divine_n of_o great_a note_n and_o authority_n to_o explain_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v this_o equal_a deal_n r._n p._n t._n g._n say_v 264._o that_o for_o 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i_o say_v in_o this_o case_n the_o rule_n of_o the_o church_n help_v nothing_o for_o they_o who_o do_v follow_v the_o rule_n of_o the_o church_n must_v do_v one_o or_o the_o other_o of_o these_o and_o whichsoever_o they_o do_v they_o be_v charge_v with_o idolatry_n and_o therefore_o dr._n st._n have_v great_a reason_n to_o say_v where_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n of_o do_v the_o thing_n the_o best_a way_n to_o avoid_v idolatry_n be_v to_o give_v no_o worship_n to_o image_n at_o all_o r._n p._n 266._o what_o will_v become_v of_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o church_n say_v t._n g._n if_o man_n may_v be_v permit_v to_o break_v they_o for_o such_o caprice_n as_o these_o be_v p._n d._n be_v you_o in_o earnest_n do_v t._n g._n call_v these_o caprice_n idolatry_n be_v account_v both_o by_o father_n and_o schoolman_n a_o crime_n of_o the_o high_a nature_n and_o when_o i_o be_o tell_v i_o must_v commit_v it_o one_o way_n or_o other_o by_o your_o divine_n if_o i_o give_v worship_n to_o image_n be_v this_o only_a a_o capriche_n r._n p._n 267._o will_v not_o the_o same_o reason_n hold_v against_o bow_v to_o the_o altar_n bow_v being_n a_o act_n of_o worship_n appropriate_v to_o god_n p._n d._n will_v the_o same_o reason_n hold_v against_o bow_v out_o of_o reverence_n to_o almighty_a god_n which_o i_o have_v tell_v you_o again_o and_o again_o be_v all_o our_o church_n allow_v in_o that_o which_o you_o call_v bow_v to_o the_o altar_n i_o see_v you_o be_v very_o hard_o put_v to_o it_o to_o bring_v in_o this_o single_a instance_n upon_o every_o turn_n against_o the_o plain_a sense_n and_o declaration_n of_o our_o church_n if_o this_o be_v all_o t._n g._n upon_o so_o long_a consideration_n have_v to_o say_v in_o this_o matter_n it_o be_v not_o hard_a to_o judge_v who_o have_v much_o the_o better_a cause_n r._n p._n i_o pray_v hold_v from_o triumph_v a_o while_n for_o there_o be_v a_o fresh_a charge_n behind_o wherein_o you_o will_v repent_v that_o ever_o you_o undertake_v to_o 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idolatry_n of_o the_o heathen_n consist_v only_o in_o worship_v the_o devil_n 276._o whereas_o it_o appear_v from_o the_o word_n dr._n st._n cite_v out_o of_o he_o that_o he_o charge_v the_o heathen_n with_o idolatry_n in_o worship_v their_o image_n for_o god_n and_o the_o creature_n for_o god_n although_o withal_o they_o worship_v evil_a spirit_n and_o t._n g._n contend_v that_o their_o supreme_a god_n be_v a_o arch-devil_n p._n d._n be_v this_o such_o a_o difficulty_n to_o be_v set_v in_o the_o front_n i_o suppose_v it_o be_v only_o to_o try_v whether_o i_o will_v stumble_v at_o the_o threshold_n if_o the_o supreme_a god_n who_o the_o heathen_n worship_v be_v a_o arch-devil_n as_o t._n g._n
although_o therefore_o the_o heathen_n do_v own_o and_o worship_v many_o god_n yet_o they_o look_v on_o they_o as_o inferior_a and_o subordinate_a to_o the_o supreme_a and_o only_o employ_v by_o he_o in_o the_o administration_n of_o thing_n under_o he_o and_o as_o for_o the_o partner_n you_o mention_v they_o be_v not_o such_o quoad_fw-la plenitudinem_fw-la potestatis_fw-la but_o only_o make_v use_n of_o in_o their_o particular_a office_n you_o know_v the_o distinction_n and_o it_o serve_v better_a here_o than_o in_o the_o court_n of_o rome_n but_o i_o can_v but_o wonder_n when_o t._n g._n have_v upbraid_v dr._n st._n for_o two_o page_n together_o with_o his_o father_n livy_n father_n varro_n 317._o father_n cicero_n father_n seneca_n father_n virgil_n etc._n etc._n he_o shall_v at_o last_o sink_v so_o low_a as_o to_o quote_v father_n t._n g._n in_o his_o roman_a antiquity_n against_o he_o sure_o any_o one_o of_o those_o father_n in_o a_o matter_n of_o roman_a antiquity_n will_v weigh_v down_o a_o hundred_o father_n t._n g.'s_n and_o yet_o even_o this_o testimony_n do_v not_o prove_v that_o the_o god_n that_o be_v suppose_v to_o be_v in_o heaven_n by_o their_o own_o right_n be_v supreme_a and_o independent_a deity_n but_o the_o dij_fw-la consentes_n be_v of_o a_o high_a rank_n than_o the_o semidei_fw-la or_o indigite_n the_o one_o have_v be_v always_o in_o heaven_n according_a to_o the_o platonist_n supposition_n the_o other_o be_v assume_v from_o among_o man_n which_o come_v at_o last_o to_o the_o distinction_n of_o angel_n and_o saint_n 2._o how_o far_o your_o opinion_n and_o practice_n do_v differ_v from_o they_o and_o here_o i_o pray_v remember_v that_o i_o go_v not_o about_o to_o compare_v the_o heathen_a god_n with_o angel_n and_o saint_n as_o to_o their_o excellency_n for_o the_o apostle_n tell_v we_o however_o the_o gentile_n intend_v it_o they_o do_v real_o sacrifice_v to_o devil_n and_o not_o to_o god_n but_o i_o be_o only_a to_o compare_v the_o heathen_n notion_n of_o worship_n and_o you_o together_o and_o if_o you_o do_v allow_v god_n by_o participation_n viz._n spirit_n assume_v into_o such_o a_o share_n of_o government_n as_o to_o have_v the_o care_n of_o some_o thing_n and_o place_n commit_v to_o some_o more_o than_o to_o other_o and_o if_o address_n and_o supplication_n be_v allow_v to_o be_v make_v to_o they_o on_o that_o account_n i_o desire_v to_o know_v how_o the_o heathen_n be_v just_o charge_v with_o idolatry_n and_o you_o not_o be_v it_o idolatry_n to_o pray_v to_o diana_n as_o a_o inferior_a deity_n which_o preside_v over_o hunt_v and_o be_v it_o none_o to_o pray_v to_o s._n hubert_n on_o the_o like_a account_n be_v it_o idolatry_n to_o pray_v to_o vesta_n to_o preserve_v from_o the_o fire_n and_o be_v it_o none_o to_o pray_v to_o s._n agatha_n if_o two_o person_n in_o the_o same_o storm_n pray_v as_o to_o their_o tutelar_a deity_n the_o one_o to_o neptune_n the_o other_o to_o s._n paul_n be_v the_o one_o guilty_a of_o idolatry_n and_o the_o other_o not_o if_o two_o woman_n in_o travail_n pray_v for_o help_n the_o one_o to_o lucina_n the_o other_o to_o the_o b._n virgin_n be_v the_o first_o only_o guilty_a of_o idolatry_n they_o may_v be_v accuse_v of_o ignorance_n and_o folly_n in_o make_v a_o bad_a choice_n but_o i_o do_v not_o see_v how_o the_o heathen_n can_v be_v charge_v with_o idolatry_n and_o not_o the_o other_o when_o saint_n be_v canonize_v to_o be_v particular_a patron_n of_o place_n as_o s._n rosa_n late_o for_o peru_n why_o may_v not_o the_o inhabitant_n make_v particular_a address_n to_o she_o as_o their_o patroness_n and_o tutelar_a deity_n as_o lipsius_n do_v to_o the_o b._n virgin_n be_v not_o this_o to_o make_v such_o a_o saint_n a_o sharer_n in_o the_o government_n of_o the_o world_n as_o much_o as_o the_o heathen_n do_v their_o tutelar_a god_n under_o one_o supreme_a and_o therefore_o upon_o t._n g.'s_n own_o ground_n you_o be_v as_o just_o charge_v with_o idolatry_n as_o the_o heathen_n be_v for_o the_o heathen_n do_v not_o look_v on_o their_o tutelar_a god_n as_o the_o original_a giver_n but_o as_o the_o subordinate_a minister_n r._n p._n but_o as_o t._n g._n say_v we_o do_v not_o pray_v to_o they_o to_o obtain_v the_o thing_n we_o desire_v but_o that_o they_o will_v be_v our_o intercessor_n with_o god_n for_o we_o p._n d._n i_o wonder_v t._n g._n will_v say_v this_o again_o without_o answer_v what_o dr._n st._n have_v say_v in_o his_o late_a defence_n to_o show_v 1._o that_o the_o very_a word_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n do_v allow_v more_o than_o bare_a intercession_n etc._n 2._o that_o formal_a prayer_n to_o they_o to_o bestow_v blessing_n be_v allow_v and_o practise_v among_o they_o of_o which_o he_o produce_v several_a instance_n of_o present_a use_n in_o the_o approve_a book_n of_o devotion_n etc._n 3._o that_o such_o prayer_n do_v not_o contradict_v any_o receive_a doctrine_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o he_o challenge_v t._n g._n to_o show_v 300._o what_o article_n of_o your_o creed_n what_o decree_n of_o your_o church_n what_o doctrine_n of_o your_o divine_n it_o do_v contradict_v for_o any_o man_n to_o pray_v direct_o to_o the_o virgin_n mary_n for_o the_o destruction_n of_o heresy_n support_v under_o trouble_n grace_n to_o withstand_v temptation_n and_o reception_n to_o glory_n and_o what_o can_v we_o beg_v for_o more_o from_o god_n himself_o but_o i_o do_v not_o yet_o understand_v how_o you_o can_v charge_v those_o heathen_n with_o idolatry_n who_o own_v a_o supreme_a god_n and_o worship_v inferior_a deity_n as_o subordinate_a to_o they_o and_o their_o image_n but_o the_o charge_n will_v return_v upon_o yourselves_o r._n p._n will_v you_o never_o be_v satisfy_v do_v not_o t._n g._n say_v they_o be_v just_o charge_v with_o it_o on_o two_o account_n 1._o because_o those_o image_n be_v institute_v by_o public_a authority_n for_o the_o worship_n of_o false_a god_n 437._o and_o they_o concur_v with_o the_o vulgar_a in_o all_o the_o external_a practice_n of_o their_o idolatry_n 2._o because_o though_o in_o their_o school_n they_o deny_v they_o to_o be_v god_n yet_o they_o give_v divine_a honour_n to_o they_o as_o the_o people_n do_v p._n d._n you_o must_v excuse_v i_o sir_n i_o have_v such_o a_o imperfection_n in_o my_o understanding_n that_o it_o will_v not_o be_v satisfy_v without_o the_o appearance_n at_o least_o of_o reason_n which_o i_o confess_v i_o can_v yet_o see_v in_o this_o answer_n for_o i_o pray_v how_o come_v it_o to_o be_v idolatry_n in_o they_o who_o give_v only_o a_o inferior_a and_o relative_a worship_n if_o that_o worship_n be_v not_o idolatry_n r._n p._n t._n g._n say_v they_o be_v not_o guilty_a of_o internal_a idolatry_n 438._o but_o of_o external_a comply_v with_o the_o vulgar_a who_o do_v worship_v they_o as_o true_o and_o proper_o god_n and_o that_o in_o such_o a_o manner_n that_o they_o be_v judge_v to_o do_v the_o same_o thing_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v at_o least_o a_o exterior_a profession_n of_o idolatry_n in_o they_o p._n d._n but_o you_o have_v not_o yet_o prove_v that_o the_o gentile_n do_v worship_v many_o independent_a god_n and_o i_o have_v very_o late_o show_v the_o contrary_a from_o the_o express_a testimony_n of_o the_o father_n and_o therefore_o this_o answer_n do_v not_o reach_v to_o the_o case_n yet_o suppose_v that_o against_o the_o general_a sense_n of_o understand_a man_n the_o common_a people_n shall_v take_v the_o inferior_a god_n for_o independent_a and_o absolute_a deity_n be_v not_o this_o the_o case_n of_o your_o own_o church_n as_o dr._n st._n observe_v the_o common_a people_n take_v their_o image_n for_o god_n or_o take_v the_o b._n virgin_n for_o the_o queen_n of_o heaven_n and_o pray_v to_o they_o according_o which_o be_v both_o internal_a and_o external_a idolatry_n in_o they_o however_o t._n g._n and_o their_o learned_a man_n comply_v with_o they_o in_o all_o their_o external_a act_n of_o worship_n be_v they_o guilty_a of_o the_o exterior_a profession_n of_o idolatry_n or_o not_o r._n p._n i_o think_v where_o you_o will_v be_v but_o be_v it_o the_o same_o case_n of_o some_o few_o man_n comply_v with_o a_o common_a and_o public_a custom_n of_o idolatrous_a worship_n 441._o and_o of_o those_o who_o follow_v the_o public_a profession_n and_o do_v the_o same_o act_n with_o some_o private_a man_n who_o turn_v they_o to_o idolatrous_a worship_n p._n d._n but_o if_o the_o public_a profession_n of_o the_o gentile_n be_v to_o worship_v one_o supreme_a god_n as_o i_o have_v already_o prove_v than_o the_o case_n be_v the_o very_a same_o as_o to_o the_o profession_n and_o practice_n of_o idolatry_n 444._o which_o be_v the_o main_a thing_n insist_v on_o and_o the_o show_v of_o many_o other_o
tie_v to_o offer_v incense_n to_o god_n and_o yet_o they_o esteem_v it_o idolatry_n to_o offer_v incense_n to_o any_o creature_n therefore_o it_o be_v not_o necessary_a to_o the_o nature_n of_o idolatry_n that_o the_o act_n of_o worship_n be_v such_o as_o we_o be_v tie_v to_o give_v unto_o god_n it_o be_v sufficient_a that_o it_o be_v a_o act_n of_o religious_a worship_n and_o the_o give_v of_o any_o such_o to_o a_o creature_n be_v idolatry_n and_o without_o this_o it_o be_v impossible_a to_o defend_v the_o martyr_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n which_o all_o christian_n be_v bind_v to_o do_v 2._o as_o to_o particular_a act_n of_o divine_a worship_n though_o they_o be_v always_o unlawful_a to_o be_v give_v to_o any_o thing_n beside_o god_n yet_o we_o be_v not_o tie_v after_o the_o same_o manner_n to_o perform_v they_o to_o he_o for_o 1._o some_o act_n of_o worship_n be_v natural_a and_o always_o equal_o agree_v to_o the_o majesty_n of_o god_n such_o as_o prayer_n and_o invocation_n dependence_n on_o his_o goodness_n and_o providence_n thanksgiving_n for_o mercy_n receive_v and_o all_o internal_a act_n of_o worship_n which_o result_n from_o the_o relation_n we_o stand_v in_o to_o god_n and_o the_o apprehension_n we_o ought_v to_o have_v of_o his_o perfection_n as_o fear_v from_o his_o power_n submission_n from_o his_o providence_n faith_n and_o trust_n in_o he_o from_o his_o truth_n and_o wisdom_n love_n from_o his_o goodness_n etc._n etc._n all_o these_o be_v necessary_a act_n of_o worship_n and_o proper_a to_o god_n 2._o some_o act_n of_o worship_n be_v appropriate_v to_o he_o when_o they_o be_v due_a but_o they_o be_v not_o always_o due_a such_o as_o make_v vow_n and_o swear_v by_o his_o name_n although_o we_o be_v not_o tie_v to_o perform_v these_o at_o any_o certain_a time_n yet_o whenever_o they_o be_v do_v they_o must_v be_v do_v to_o god_n alone_o 3._o some_o act_n be_v not_o necessary_a to_o be_v do_v to_o god_n at_o all_o and_o yet_o it_o be_v unlawful_a to_o do_v they_o to_o any_o other_o and_o of_o this_o kind_n be_v the_o offer_v sacrifice_n and_o burn_a incense_n which_o be_v strict_o require_v under_o the_o law_n but_o that_o dispensation_n expire_a after_o the_o come_n of_o christ_n the_o obligation_n to_o those_o act_n be_v whole_o take_v away_o and_o yet_o it_o be_v idolatry_n to_o use_v they_o to_o any_o thing_n beside_o god_n because_o they_o be_v act_n of_o religious_a worship_n and_o therefore_o if_o to_o be_v perform_v at_o all_o they_o be_v so_o due_a to_o he_o that_o they_o can_v not_o without_o idolatry_n be_v apply_v to_o any_o beside_o he_o and_o thus_o i_o hope_v i_o have_v a_o little_a help_v your_o understanding_n about_o these_o appropriate_a act_n of_o divine_a worship_n r._n p._n but_o the_o force_n of_o the_o ceremonial_a law_n be_v take_v away_o 452._o whatever_o be_v not_o oblige_v by_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n or_o some_o express_a declaration_n of_o the_o will_n of_o christ_n be_v leave_v at_o liberty_n for_o the_o church_n to_o use_v conformable_o to_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n and_o the_o design_n of_o christ_n doctrine_n p._n d._n all_o this_o i_o yield_v but_o that_o which_o i_o insist_v upon_o be_v that_o fundamental_a precept_n of_o worship_n as_o declare_v by_o christ_n thou_o shall_v worship_v the_o lord_n thy_o god_n and_o he_o only_o shall_v thou_o serve_v r._n p._n but_o do_v you_o think_v that_o christ_n have_v make_v a_o re-establishment_n of_o those_o act_n in_o the_o new_a law_n which_o be_v before_o peculiar_a to_o god_n 454._o as_o sacrifice_n incense_n etc._n etc._n for_o then_o christian_n will_v be_v as_o much_o bind_v by_o this_o precept_n to_o give_v they_o to_o god_n as_o not_o to_o give_v they_o to_o any_o other_o but_o if_o they_o be_v not_o reestablish_v how_o do_v it_o follow_v that_o because_o they_o be_v appropriate_v to_o god_n by_o the_o law_n therefore_o now_o that_o law_n be_v take_v away_o they_o be_v forbid_v to_o any_o other_o beside_o god_n p._n d._n i_o do_v not_o say_v that_o christ_n do_v intend_v a_o re-establishment_n of_o those_o act_n of_o worship_n which_o be_v peculiar_a to_o the_o law_n of_o moses_n but_o i_o do_v say_v that_o christ_n by_o this_o precept_n as_o explain_v by_o himself_o do_v make_v it_o utter_o unlawful_a to_o perform_v any_o act_n of_o religious_a worship_n to_o any_o but_o god_n alone_o and_o if_o this_o be_v all_o you_o have_v to_o prove_v the_o mass_n of_o equivocation_n false_a supposition_n and_o self-contradiction_n in_o dr._n st.'s_n discourse_n of_o appropriate_a act_n of_o divine_a worship_n it_o have_v be_v more_o for_o t._n g.'s_n honour_n to_o have_v pass_v over_o this_o with_o as_o much_o silence_n as_o he_o do_v many_o other_o place_n which_o he_o find_v too_o hard_o for_o he_o r._n p._n suppose_v this_o argument_n be_v good_a 455._o it_o prove_v nothing_o against_o we_o who_o neither_o give_v any_o act_n absolute_o appropriate_v to_o god_n to_o any_o else_o beside_o he_o nor_o any_o other_o in_o the_o manner_n it_o be_v appropriate_v to_o he_o p._n d._n if_o you_o perform_v any_o act_n of_o religious_a worship_n either_o to_o saint_n or_o image_n this_o discourse_n must_v concern_v you_o because_o the_o law_n against_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n be_v still_o in_o force_n among_o christian_n and_o our_o saviour_n general_a rule_n do_v forbid_v all_o external_a act_n of_o religious_a worship_n be_v apply_v to_o any_o beside_o god_n r._n p._n nay_o suppose_v those_o external_a act_n of_o worship_n to_o be_v now_o due_a to_o god_n by_o his_o law_n 456._o the_o give_v they_o to_o any_o beside_o himself_o will_v not_o be_v to_o give_v to_o the_o creature_n the_o worship_n due_a to_o god_n unless_o it_o be_v do_v with_o a_o intention_n to_o give_v they_o to_o a_o creature_n as_o esteem_v worthy_a of_o divine_a honour_n for_o that_o be_v the_o definition_n of_o real_a idolatry_n p._n d._n then_o the_o mandarin_n in_o china_n who_o perform_v all_o external_a act_n of_o adoration_n in_o the_o temple_n of_o the_o tutelar_a spirit_n secret_o direct_v their_o intention_n to_o a_o crucifix_n be_v not_o guilty_a of_o idolatry_n notwithstanding_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o congregation_n at_o rome_n for_o they_o do_v not_o perform_v those_o act_n with_o a_o intention_n to_o give_v the_o worship_n to_o the_o tutelar_a spirit_n as_o esteem_v worthy_a of_o divine_a honour_n then_o the_o thurificati_fw-la of_o the_o primitive_a church_n who_o through_o fear_n offer_v incense_v can_v not_o be_v charge_v with_o idolatry_n nor_o marcellinus_n though_o he_o sacrifice_v in_o the_o temple_n of_o vesta_n when_o he_o only_o comply_v with_o dioclesian_n but_o do_v not_o t._n g._n blame_v the_o philosopher_n for_o a_o exterior_a profession_n of_o idolatry_n what_o be_v that_o i_o beseech_v you_o be_v it_o idolatry_n or_o not_o do_v not_o t._n g._n grant_v that_o there_o aught_o in_o reason_n to_o be_v some_o peculiar_a external_a act_n appropriate_v to_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n as_o most_o agreeable_a to_o his_o incommunicable_a excellency_n 467._o why_o so_o i_o pray_v be_v it_o not_o because_o god_n incommunicable_a excellency_n require_v a_o external_a worship_n peculiar_a to_o itself_o and_o if_o so_o be_v it_o not_o to_o give_v the_o worship_n due_a to_o god_n to_o something_o else_o to_o apply_v those_o act_n which_o be_v peculiar_a to_o himself_o to_o any_o thing_n beside_o he_o this_o debate_n in_o truth_n come_v to_o this_o point_n at_o last_o whether_o there_o ought_v to_o be_v any_o such_o thing_n as_o a_o peculiar_a external_a worship_n of_o god_n or_o not_o for_o if_o external_a worship_n be_v due_a to_o he_o and_o such_o worship_n be_v due_a to_o he_o alone_o for_o his_o incommunicable_a excellency_n than_o the_o give_v external_a worship_n to_o a_o creature_n must_v be_v give_v to_o it_o what_o be_v due_a only_a to_o god_n and_o to_o resolve_v the_o nature_n of_o idolatry_n into_o the_o inward_a intention_n be_v all_o one_o as_o if_o one_o shall_v say_v that_o adultery_n be_v to_o lie_v with_o another_o man_n wife_n with_o a_o intention_n to_o cuckold_v her_o husband_n but_o if_o a_o man_n do_v it_o out_o of_o love_n to_o her_o person_n it_o be_v no_o adultery_n why_o be_v there_o not_o a_o external_a act_n of_o idolatry_n as_o well_o as_o of_o perjury_n theft_n murder_n and_o the_o like_a where_o do_v the_o scripture_n give_v the_o least_o intimation_n that_o the_o nature_n of_o idolatry_n be_v to_o be_v take_v from_o the_o inward_a intention_n when_o the_o law_n be_v express_v against_o the_o outward_a action_n and_o all_o man_n be_v charge_v with_o idolatry_n who_o be_v guilty_a of_o the_o external_a act_n without_o run_v into_o the_o thought_n and_o design_n of_o their_o heart_n nay_o your_o own_o
say_v if_o christ_n be_v the_o sacrifice_n he_o must_v be_v slay_v again_o at_o every_o mass_n as_o he_o be_v once_o on_o the_o cross_n or_o you_o can_v assign_v no_o destruction_n which_o you_o say_v be_v necessary_a to_o such_o a_o true_a and_o proper_a sacrifice_n r._n p._n do_v not_o you_o observe_v t._n g.'s_n word_n that_o christ_n be_v whole_a under_o either_o species_n and_o his_o blood_n separate_v from_o his_o body_n not_o real_o but_o mystical_o only_a and_o in_o representation_n p._n d._n how_o be_v that_o whole_a christ_n under_o the_o bread_n and_o whole_a christ_n under_o the_o wine_n and_o the_o blood_n separate_v from_o the_o body_n not_o real_o but_o mystical_o only_a and_o by_o representation_n this_o be_v admirable_a stuff_n and_o true_a mystical_a divinity_n if_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n do_v remain_v whole_a and_o entire_a where_o be_v the_o true_a proper_a sacrifice_n where_o be_v the_o change_n make_v if_o not_o in_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n if_o that_o be_v uncapable_a of_o a_o change_n how_o can_v it_o be_v a_o true_a and_o proper_a sacrifice_n if_o the_o blood_n be_v not_o real_o separate_v from_o the_o body_n where_o be_v the_o mactation_n which_o must_v be_v in_o a_o propitiatory_a sacrifice_n if_o christ_n do_v remain_v whole_a and_o entire_a after_o all_o the_o sacrificial_a act_n where_o i_o say_v be_v the_o true_a and_o proper_a sacrifice_n t._n g._n have_v far_o better_o say_v and_o more_o agreeable_o to_o scripture_n antiquity_n and_o reason_n that_o there_o be_v no_o real_a and_o proper_a sacrifice_n on_o the_o altar_n but_o only_o mystical_a and_o by_o representation_n r._n p._n but_o t._n g._n say_v that_o religion_n which_o admit_v no_o external_a visible_a sacrifice_n 512._o must_v needs_o be_v deficient_a in_o the_o most_o signal_n part_v of_o the_o public_a worship_n of_o god_n p._n d._n i_o pray_v remember_v it_o be_v a_o external_a and_o visible_a sacrifice_n which_o you_o contend_v for_o and_o now_o tell_v i_o where_o it_o be_v in_o your_o church_n do_v it_o lie_v in_o the_o mimical_a gesture_n of_o the_o priest_n at_o the_o altar_n in_o imitation_n of_o christ_n on_o the_o cross_n if_o that_o be_v it_o the_o necessary_a consumption_n of_o the_o sacrifice_n will_v be_v no_o comfortable_a doctrine_n to_o the_o priest_n do_v it_o lie_v in_o the_o consecration_n of_o the_o element_n which_o be_v visible_a but_o you_o say_v the_o essence_n of_o the_o sacrifice_n consist_v in_o the_o change_n and_o we_o can_v see_v no_o visible_a change_n make_v in_o they_o and_o therefore_o there_o be_v no_o external_a and_o visible_a sacrifice_n beside_o if_o the_o sacrifice_n do_v lie_v in_o the_o change_n of_o the_o element_n after_o consecration_n into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n than_o the_o element_n be_v the_o thing_n sacrifice_v and_o not_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n for_o the_o destructive_a change_n be_v as_o to_o the_o element_n and_o not_o as_o to_o the_o body_n of_o christ._n or_o do_v it_o lie_v in_o the_o swallow_a down_o and_o consumption_n of_o the_o species_n after_o consecration_n by_o the_o priest_n but_o here_o likewise_o the_o change_n be_v in_o the_o accident_n and_o not_o in_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n which_o remain_v whole_a and_o entire_a though_o the_o species_n be_v consume_v and_o i_o think_v there_o be_v some_o difference_n between_o change_v one_o seat_n and_o be_v sacrifice_v for_o all_o that_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v pretend_v to_o be_v change_v in_o be_v only_o its_o being_n no_o long_o under_o the_o species_n but_o t._n g._n i_o suppose_v will_v allow_v it_o to_o be_v whole_a and_o entire_a still_o do_v it_o then_o lie_v in_o pronounce_v the_o word_n of_o consecration_n upon_o which_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v under_o the_o species_n of_o bread_n and_o the_o blood_n under_o that_o of_o wine_n and_o so_o separate_v from_o the_o body_n but_o this_o can_v least_o of_o all_o be_v since_o t._n g._n assure_v we_o that_o whole_a christ_n be_v under_o the_o bread_n as_o well_o as_o under_o the_o wine_n and_o so_o there_o can_v be_v so_o much_o as_o a_o moment_n of_o real_a separation_n between_o they_o and_o we_o know_v how_o necessary_a for_o other_o purpose_n the_o doctrine_n of_o concomitancy_n be_v tell_v i_o then_o where_o be_v your_o external_a and_o visible_a sacrifice_n which_o you_o boast_v so_o much_o of_o since_o according_a to_o your_o own_o principle_n there_o be_v nothing_o that_o belong_v to_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o sacrifice_n be_v external_a and_o visible_a and_o consequent_o your_o own_o church_n labour_v under_o the_o defect_n t._n g._n complain_v of_o r._n p._n but_o what_o make_v dr._n st._n so_o bitter_a against_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o altar_n since_o the_o most_o true_a and_o genuine_a son_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n do_v allow_v it_o etc._n as_o mr._n thorndike_n dr._n heylin_n and_o bishop_n andrews_n and_o do_v not_o this_o rather_o look_v like_o betray_v the_o church_n of_o england_n than_o defend_v it_o p._n d._n i_o see_v now_o you_o be_v wheel_v about_o to_o your_o first_o post_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v time_n to_o give_v you_o a_o space_n of_o breathe_v your_o great_a business_n be_v to_o set_v we_o at_o variance_n among_o ourselves_o but_o you_o have_v hitherto_o fail_v in_o your_o attempt_n and_o i_o hope_v will_v do_v i_o do_v not_o think_v any_o two_o or_o three_o man_n though_o never_o so_o learn_v make_v the_o church_n of_o england_n her_o sense_n be_v to_o be_v see_v in_o the_o public_a act_n and_o office_n belong_v to_o it_o and_o in_o the_o article_n to_o which_o t._n g._n sometime_o appeal_v 31._o your_o sacrifice_n on_o the_o altar_n be_v call_v blasphemous_a figment_n and_o dangerous_a imposture_n but_o as_o to_o these_o three_o person_n i_o answer_v thus_o 1._o mr._n thorndike_n as_o i_o have_v show_v already_o 88_o declare_v against_o the_o true_a proper_a sacrifice_n define_v by_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n as_o a_o innovation_n and_o a_o contradiction_n and_o that_o which_o he_o plead_v for_o be_v that_o the_o eucharist_n be_v a_o commemorative_n and_o representative_a sacrifice_n about_o which_o dr._n st._n will_v never_o contend_v with_o he_o or_o any_o one_o else_o and_o immediate_o after_o the_o word_n cite_v by_o t._n g._n he_o add_v these_o 40._o it_o be_v therefore_o enough_o that_o the_o eucharist_n be_v the_o sacrifice_n of_o christ_n on_o the_o cross_n as_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o christ_n on_o the_o cross_n be_v represent_v renew_v revive_v and_o restore_v by_o it_o and_o as_o every_o representation_n be_v say_v to_o be_v the_o same_o thing_n with_o that_o which_o it_o represent_v 2._o pet._n heylins_n word_n be_v express_o only_a for_o a_o commemorative_n sacrifice_n 24._o as_o t._n g._n himself_o produce_v they_o and_o therefore_o i_o wonder_v what_o t._n g._n mean_v in_o cite_v they_o at_o large_a for_o he_o quote_v the_o english_a liturgy_n for_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o praise_n and_o thanksgiving_n and_o s._n chrysostom_n call_v it_o the_o remembrance_n of_o a_o sacrifice_n and_o many_o of_o our_o learned_a writer_n a_o commemorative_a sacrifice_n what_o be_v there_o in_o all_o this_o in_o the_o least_o repugnant_a to_o what_o dr._n st._n have_v deliver_v r._n p._n but_o he_o quote_v bishop_n andrews_n say_v take_v from_o the_o mass_n your_o transubstantiation_n and_o we_o will_v have_v no_o difference_n with_o you_o about_o the_o sacrfiice_fw-la p._n d._n bishop_n andrews_n call_v the_o eucharist_n a_o commemorative_n sacrifice_n 184._o and_o he_o say_v it_o be_v proper_o eucharistical_a or_o of_o the_o nature_n of_o peace-offering_n concern_v which_o the_o law_n be_v that_o he_o that_o offer_v shall_v partake_v of_o they_o and_o a_o little_a after_o follow_v those_o word_n you_o mention_n to_o which_o he_o add_v we_o yield_v you_o that_o there_o be_v a_o remembrance_n of_o christ_n sacrifice_n but_o we_o shall_v never_o yield_v that_o your_o christ_n be_v make_v of_o bread_n be_v there_o sacrifice_v which_o be_v the_o very_a thing_n that_o t._n g._n be_v so_o angry_a with_o dr._n st._n about_o and_o have_v not_o you_o brave_o prove_v that_o dr._n st._n have_v herein_o go_v against_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o genuine_a son_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n if_o you_o have_v any_o thing_n yet_o leave_v which_o you_o think_v material_a i_o pray_v let_v we_o have_v it_o now_o for_o fear_v lest_o t._n g._n make_v use_n of_o it_o to_o stuff_n out_o another_o book_n r._n p._n i_o think_v we_o be_v near_o the_o bottom_n p._n d._n so_o i_o imagine_v by_o the_o dregs_o which_o come_v last_o r._n p._n there_o be_v one_o thing_n yet_o leave_v for_o a_o close_a 523._o which_o be_v dr._n st._n say_v suppose_v this_o sacrifice_n be_v allow_v yet_o this_o do_v not_o prove_v that_o we_o reserve_v any_o