Selected quad for the lemma: doctrine_n

Word A Word B Word C Word D Occurrence Frequency Band MI MI Band Prominent
doctrine_n church_n rome_n transubstantiation_n 3,421 5 11.4318 5 true
View all documents for the selected quad

Text snippets containing the quad

ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A41431 The sum of a conference had between two divines of the Church of England and two Catholic lay-gentlemen at the request and for the satisfaction of three persons of quality, August 8, 1671. Gooden, Peter, d. 1695. 1687 (1687) Wing G1099; ESTC R34918 23,435 41

There are 5 snippets containing the selected quad. | View original text

proposition_n of_o which_o so_o palpable_a a_o contradiction_n be_v predicate_v must_v needs_o be_v under_o some_o other_o signification_n beside_o its_o literal_a one_o because_o this_o predicate_v so_o peremptory_o negative_a be_v not_o bread_n and_o so_o determine_v positive_o but_o christ_n body_n be_v so_o evident_a and_o plain_a that_o they_o be_v not_o capable_a of_o be_v misconstrue_v especial_o be_v predicate_v which_o always_o limit_n and_o determine_v the_o subject_a so_o that_o bread_n be_v so_o call_v because_o it_o once_o be_v bread_n as_o moses_n his_o rod_n though_o change_v into_o a_o serpent_n be_v notwithstanding_o call_v a_o rod_n because_o it_o have_v be_v so_o and_o still_o appear_v to_o the_o sense_n to_o be_v bread_n as_o the_o father_n here_o tell_v we_o with_o this_o reduplication_n for_o fear_n of_o mistake_n yet_o it_o be_v not_o bread._n i_o can_v use_v plain_a word_n to_o explicate_v the_o father_n than_o his_o own_o he_o that_o can_v make_v protestantism_n out_o of_o these_o text_n may_v expound_v bellarmin_n and_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n when_o they_o please_v and_o make_v they_o protestant_n too_o as_o to_o your_o demand_n that_o we_o shall_v show_v that_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n cease_v i_o think_v you_o never_o need_v have_v it_o show_v plain_a than_o in_o the_o word_n before_o you_o which_o say_v that_o that_o which_o seem_v bread_n be_v not_o bread_n i_o suppose_v by_o substance_n of_o bread_n you_o mean_v the_o be_v of_o bread_n therefore_o the_o be_v cease_v the_o substance_n must_v cease_v but_o the_o be_v cease_v according_a to_o this_o text_n for_o that_o which_o be_v bread_n be_v not_o bread_n therefore_o the_o substance_n cease_v and_o there_o be_v a_o change_n which_o you_o grant_v wonderful_a and_o what_o can_v this_o change_n be_v but_o this_o substance_n cease_v to_o be_v be_v change_v into_o another_o substance_n which_o we_o call_v transubstantiation_n and_o yet_o because_o st._n cyprian_n lie_v here_o before_o we_o i_o will_v show_v domini_fw-la you_o a_o quotation_n out_o of_o he_o where_o he_o say_v that_o bread_n be_v change_v not_o only_o in_o effigy_n or_o similitude_n but_o in_o nature_n be_v by_o the_o omnipotent_a power_n of_o god_n make_v flesh_n dr._n i_o wonder_v you_o shall_v quote_v that_o place_n out_o of_o st._n cyprian_n which_o be_v notorious_o know_v to_o be_v none_o of_o he_o for_o the_o manuscript_n of_o that_o work_n be_v now_o in_o oxford_n library_n and_o bear_v the_o name_n of_o another_o author_n some_o hundred_o year_n young_a than_o st._n cyprian_n cath._n but_o do_v you_o acknowledge_v that_o the_o word_n quote_v out_o of_o this_o work_n be_v it_o who_o it_o will_v do_v signify_v transubstantiation_n drs._n we_o do_v not_o deny_v but_o that_o many_o author_n of_o latter_a age_n have_v write_v very_o odd_o of_o that_o point_n and_o we_o do_v think_v this_o among_o the_o rest_n one_o of_o they_o cath._n this_o be_v the_o first_o time_n that_o ever_o we_o hear_v of_o any_o such_o manuscript_n of_o this_o work_n in_o oxford_n and_o yet_o i_o have_v meet_v with_o many_o protestant_n that_o have_v make_v it_o their_o business_n to_o prove_v it_o none_o of_o st._n cyprian_n and_o it_o be_v much_o that_o none_o of_o they_o shall_v ever_o hear_v of_o this_o manuscript_n and_o urge_v it_o if_o it_o be_v so_o evident_o know_v to_o be_v another_o man_n and_o who_o and_o of_o what_o age._n but_o this_o i_o be_o sure_a that_o cocus_n the_o famous_a man_n for_o except_v against_o place_n bring_v by_o catholic_o for_o their_o doctrine_n do_v impugn_v this_o book_n chief_o from_o bellarmin_n confession_n who_o indeed_o do_v say_v that_o it_o may_v seem_v to_o be_v none_o of_o st._n cyprian_n but_o add_v immediate_o after_o that_o it_o be_v the_o work_n of_o some_o learned_a man_n of_o the_o same_o age_n as_o our_o adversary_n acknowledge_v to_o which_o cocus_n say_v nothing_o and_o therefore_o may_v well_o be_v think_v to_o allow_v it_o mr._n fulk_n against_o the_o rhemish_a testament_n upon_o 1_o cor._n cap._n 7._o fol._n 282._o say_v the_o author_n de_fw-fr coena_fw-la domini_fw-la which_o be_v the_o work_n now_o mention_v be_v not_o in_o time_n much_o inferior_a to_o cyprian_a and_o erasmus_n a_o great_a man_n with_o the_o protestant_n in_o his_o annotation_n annex_v to_o st._n cyprian_n work_n print_v at_o basil_n 1558._o fol._n 287._o affirm_v it_o to_o be_v the_o work_n of_o some_o learned_a man_n of_o that_o age_n so_o that_o take_v cocus_n his_o silence_n to_o what_o bellarmin_n say_v and_o mr._n fulk_n and_o erasmus_n their_o plain_a affirmation_n of_o the_o age_n of_o this_o work_n to_o be_v worth_a any_o thing_n and_o take_v this_o doctor_n confession_n that_o the_o word_n in_o this_o work_n be_v odd_a as_o savour_v of_o transubstantiation_n you_o have_v a_o argument_n of_o transubstantiation_n in_o st._n cyprian_n age_n or_o at_o least_o of_o a_o time_n not_o much_o inferior_a gentlem._n to_o the_o doctor_n sir_n i_o have_v observe_v the_o discourse_n as_o well_o as_o i_o can_v and_o i_o find_v the_o great_a point_n in_o dispute_n be_v what_o the_o father_n hold_v a_o great_a while_n ago_o as_o to_o the_o doctrine_n in_o debate_n you_o have_v bring_v place_n of_o both_o side_n which_o we_o must_v consider_v more_o at_o leisure_n but_o at_o present_a will_v you_o be_v please_v to_o answer_v i_o a_o question_n or_o two_o which_o occur_v to_o i_o to_o ask_v dr._n with_o all_o my_o heart_n gent._n how_o long_o be_v it_o since_o transubstantiation_n the_o word_n i_o mean_v have_v be_v establish_v dr._n ever_o since_o the_o lateran_n council_n about_o 450_o year_n ago_o gent._n do_v the_o church_n understand_v the_o word_n transubstantiation_n then_o to_o signify_v any_o new_a doctrine_n or_o only_o to_o express_v the_o very_a self_n same_o doctrine_n which_o they_o believe_v before_o dr._n we_o do_v believe_v that_o the_o word_n be_v not_o take_v to_o signify_v any_o thing_n but_o what_o be_v believe_v before_o gent._n when_o do_v the_o church_n begin_v to_o believe_v that_o doctrine_n which_o it_o seem_v it_o do_v believe_v at_o and_o before_o the_o lateran_n council_n and_o think_v then_o well_o express_v by_o the_o word_n transubstantiation_n dr._n we_o confess_v we_o can_v tell_v for_o great_a error_n arrive_v often_o from_o little_a beginning_n and_o do_v grow_v up_o insensible_o gent._n how_o long_o be_v it_o after_o the_o lateran_n council_n before_o this_o doctrine_n be_v complain_v of_o dr._n about_o three_o hundred_o year_n gent._n how_o come_v we_o to_o discern_v this_o to_o be_v a_o error_n three_o hundred_o year_n after_o which_o our_o forefather_n hold_v for_o a_o truth_n three_o hundred_o year_n together_o in_o express_a term_n and_o no_o body_n know_v how_o much_o long_o they_o hold_v the_o same_o thing_n in_o other_o term_n be_v it_o not_o much_o a_o error_n can_v be_v so_o general_a and_o so_o long_o maintain_v without_o any_o opposition_n or_o notice_n take_v of_o its_o birth_n or_o origin_n dr._n it_o be_v not_o so_o general_n but_o that_o some_o oppose_v it_o as_o the_o waldenses_n but_o it_o be_v not_o strange_a that_o a_o error_n shall_v be_v general_a and_o long_o maintain_v for_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n say_v that_o the_o greek_a church_n err_v general_o and_o long_o in_o teach_v that_o the_o holy_a ghost_n proceed_v not_o from_o the_o son._n cath._n but_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n never_o teach_v that_o the_o whole_a catholic_a church_n err_v in_o teach_v that_o doctrine_n for_o though_o that_o part_n which_o be_v now_o call_v the_o greek_a church_n be_v condemn_v for_o that_o error_n yet_o we_o know_v how_o and_o when_o it_o begin_v and_o who_o oppose_v it_o we_o know_v that_o very_o many_o of_o the_o greek_n never_o consent_v to_o it_o but_o do_v then_o and_o have_v always_o since_o continue_v in_o communion_n with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n so_o that_o that_o error_n be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v general_a that_o it_o be_v always_o oppose_v by_o the_o latin_a church_n and_o great_a part_n of_o the_o greek_n too_o whereas_o no_o body_n oppose_v transubstantiation_n but_o know_v heretic_n who_o begin_v before_o the_o lateran_n council_n we_o speak_v of_o and_o be_v condemn_v by_o it_o and_o be_v such_o as_o the_o waldenses_n a_o people_n as_o i_o suppose_v you_o will_v be_v loath_a to_o own_o for_o your_o predecessor_n and_o that_o all_o the_o world_n shall_v consent_v so_o quiet_o all_o at_o one_o time_n to_o adore_v that_o for_o god_n which_o the_o day_n before_o be_v universal_o believe_v to_o be_v but_o a_o piece_n of_o bread_n and_o be_v use_v according_o and_o no_o man_n live_v in_o the_o world_n take_v notice_n when_o this_o be_v do_v nor_o upon_o what_o occasion_n or_o give_v it_o the_o least_o opposition_n be_v a_o miracle_n
manifest_v from_o the_o history_n which_o they_o themselves_o have_v read_v and_o the_o general_a confession_n which_o they_o themselves_o have_v meet_v withal_o from_o very_a many_o even_o learned_a protestant_n that_o the_o pope_n of_o rome_n be_v at_o least_o patriarch_n of_o the_o west_n and_o as_o such_o have_v patriarchal_a authority_n at_o least_o over_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o therefore_o be_v allow_v to_o be_v the_o proper_a judge_n of_o ecclesiastical_a matter_n the_o very_a day_n before_o the_o foresay_a declaration_n be_v make_v and_o therefore_o be_v the_o only_a proper_a judge_n of_o the_o say_a declaration_n and_o the_o author_n of_o it_o whether_o it_o be_v well_o and_o legal_o make_v and_o this_o say_a judge_n have_v judicial_o determine_v the_o say_a declaration_n to_o be_v schismatical_a condemn_v it_o legal_o and_o just_o excommunicate_v the_o author_n most_o certain_o a_o declaration_n make_v by_o every_o one_o that_o pretend_v power_n to_o make_v one_o be_v not_o present_o lawful_a because_o it_o be_v pretend_v to_o be_v so_o the_o late_a long_a parliament_n pretend_v to_o declare_v that_o the_o supreme_a power_n of_o england_n be_v in_o the_o people_n and_o that_o the_o say_a people_n may_v judge_v and_o depose_v the_o king_n whenever_o he_o misuse_v that_o power_n which_o the_o people_n entrust_v he_o withal_o and_o we_o know_v what_o follow_v upon_o it_o i_o hope_v the_o doctor_n will_v not_o justify_v that_o declaration_n nor_o can_v he_o show_v a_o disparity_n between_o this_o and_o the_o other_o both_o be_v make_v by_o those_o who_o be_v universal_o esteem_v at_o the_o time_n they_o make_v they_o subject_n and_o inferior_n to_o those_o against_o who_o authority_n they_o make_v they_o in_o those_o very_a point_n concern_v which_o they_o do_v then_o declare_v drs._n the_o pope_n be_v never_o content_a to_o be_v esteem_v bare_o the_o patriarch_n of_o the_o west_n and_o there_o be_v great_a difference_n between_o the_o two_o declaration_n that_o in_o hen._n eighth_n time_n against_o the_o pope_n and_o that_o in_o king_n charles_n the_o first_o be_v time_n against_o his_o majesty_n cath._n it_o matter_n not_o now_o whether_o the_o pope_n be_v content_a or_o no_o to_o be_v bare_o esteem_v patriarch_n of_o the_o west_n if_o he_o have_v reason_n to_o challenge_v more_o that_o no_o way_n justify_v you_o do_v you_o allow_v that_o he_o be_v patriarch_n if_o you_o do_v answer_v the_o difficulty_n and_o say_v how_o his_o inferior_n come_v by_o a_o power_n to_o depose_v he_o and_o as_o to_o the_o difference_n between_o the_o two_o declaration_n you_o must_v show_v it_o we_o before_o we_o believe_v there_o be_v any_o gentlemen_n to_o the_o doctor_n sir_n we_o do_v not_o doubt_v but_o that_o the_o pope_n be_v allow_v some_o authority_n in_o england_n before_o the_o separation_n we_o do_v not_o therefore_o desire_v to_o dispute_v that_o but_o suppose_v he_o have_v not_o you_o separate_v yourselves_o from_o the_o great_a body_n of_o all_o christian_n unite_v before_o in_o one_o communion_n we_o desire_v to_o know_v what_o cause_n you_o can_v have_v for_o that_o drs._n we_o have_v cause_n to_o separate_v for_o that_o the_o communion_n from_o which_o we_o separate_v teach_v false_a faith_n and_o be_v guilty_a of_o idolatry_n i_o instance_n particular_o in_o their_o doctrine_n of_o transubstantiation_n and_o their_o adore_v the_o host_n cath._n to_o the_o company_n though_o you_o may_v be_v please_v to_o remember_v that_o we_o do_v at_o first_o deny_v that_o any_o particular_a person_n and_o the_o same_o hold_v of_o particular_a diocese_n province_n and_o nation_n all_o which_o united_n make_v but_o one_o catholic_a church_n and_o therefore_o the_o big_a of_o they_o all_o to_o be_v consider_v only_o as_o a_o member_n of_o the_o whole_a body_n have_v power_n to_o judge_v and_o condemn_v the_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n as_o false_a or_o idolatrous_a when_o the_o body_n against_o this_o member_n say_v that_o the_o say_v doctrine_n or_o practice_n be_v orthodox_n and_o catholic_n so_o as_o to_o have_v lawful_a cause_n to_o separate_v from_o the_o say_v whole_a communion_n without_o be_v guilty_a of_o criminal_a schism_n that_o what_o we_o say_v of_o a_o particular_a person_n hold_v to_o a_o nation_n or_o any_o inferior_a authority_n to_o a_o superior_a be_v evident_a upon_o supposition_n that_o god_n have_v require_v and_o command_v that_o his_o church_n be_v one_o which_o can_v not_o be_v if_o a_o secular_a sovereign_a power_n have_v authority_n to_o break_v its_o unity_n upon_o pretence_n of_o judge_v any_o one_o of_o its_o doctrine_n or_o practice_n false_a or_o idolatrous_a for_o if_o one_o may_v another_o may_z and_o than_o switzerland_n may_v have_v as_o many_o religion_n and_o communion_n as_o canton_n and_o the_o world_n as_o many_o church_n as_o secular_a sovereign_n though_o god_n have_v say_v he_o will_v have_v but_o one_o and_o here_o in_o england_n the_o bishop_n may_v as_o well_o wave_v the_o archbishop_n authority_n private_a person_n pretend_v to_o judge_n and_o censure_v the_o bishop_n power_n and_o authority_n or_o any_o one_o man_n control_v the_o authority_n of_o his_o pastor_n though_o this_o we_o deny_v at_o first_o and_o may_v therefore_o well_o refuse_v to_o proceed_v till_o the_o doctor_n have_v prove_v that_o a_o single_a person_n may_v condemn_v a_o whole_a church_n doctrine_n legal_o or_o a_o lesser_a authority_n judge_n and_o censure_v a_o great_a yet_o because_o perhaps_o this_o method_n may_v have_v be_v propose_v by_o yourselves_o we_o be_v content_a to_o do_v any_o thing_n for_o your_o satisfaction_n but_o than_o you_o must_v be_v please_v consider_v our_o communion_n at_o the_o time_n of_o the_o separation_n be_v infinite_o great_a than_o the_o reformer_n as_o learned_a and_o as_o holy_a for_o aught_o any_o body_n know_v and_o in_o possession_n for_o many_o hundred_o year_n of_o the_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n now_o condemn_v by_o these_o reformer_n to_o demand_v more_o clear_a and_o evident_a proof_n against_o our_o doctrine_n than_o we_o bring_v for_o they_o for_o upon_o but_o equal_a proof_n we_o that_o be_v forty_o to_o one_o and_o every_o whit_n as_o learned_a as_o the_o other_o especial_o have_v receive_v what_o we_o profess_v from_o our_o forefather_n from_o christ_n time_n for_o aught_o any_o body_n know_v for_o no_o body_n can_v say_v when_o what_o we_o hold_v and_o practice_v begin_v have_v no_o reason_n to_o submit_v to_o so_o much_o a_o less_o number_n at_o the_o charge_n of_o so_o great_a a_o confusion_n as_o must_v needs_o happen_v and_o god_n command_n of_o unity_n be_v break_v into_o the_o bargain_n you_o must_v therefore_o demand_v the_o most_o evident_a proof_n that_o nature_n can_v admit_v of_o to_o prove_v those_o doctrine_n of_o they_o upon_o which_o they_o ground_n their_o separation_n or_o else_o it_o will_v be_v criminal_a schism_n and_o you_o must_v desert_n their_o communion_n if_o they_o attempt_v to_o prove_v it_o from_o scripture_n they_o must_v not_o bring_v obscure_a passage_n out_o of_o it_o to_o oppose_v or_o interpret_v clear_a one_o for_o that_o be_v not_o to_o explicate_v but_o to_o confound_v not_o to_o draw_v light_n and_o truth_n out_o of_o scripture_n but_o to_o cast_v more_o darkness_n upon_o it_o neither_o can_v a_o obscure_a and_o doubtful_a title_n lawful_o or_o reasonable_o cast_v any_o body_n out_o of_o the_o possession_n of_o a_o belief_n for_o which_o he_o have_v clear_a and_o evident_a one_o to_o show_v they_o must_v therefore_o bring_v text_n that_o prove_v their_o point_n in_o term_n for_o their_o interpretation_n be_v no_o more_o to_o be_v allow_v of_o than_o we_o and_o scripture_n ought_v to_o be_v take_v literal_o where_o the_o literal_a sense_n do_v not_o imply_v a_o contradiction_n note_n it_o may_v be_v reasonable_o suppose_v that_o these_o undeniable_a principle_n be_v the_o cause_n why_o the_o doctor_n as_o it_o will_v appear_v in_o all_o this_o conference_n will_v never_o venture_v upon_o any_o citation_n of_o the_o scripture_n to_o prove_v their_o doctrine_n for_o which_o they_o separate_v from_o the_o roman_a church_n acknowledge_v then_o universal_o for_o the_o true_a church_n but_o be_v force_v to_o fly_v to_o some_o obscure_a sentence_n of_o the_o father_n even_o which_o will_v yet_o appear_v to_o make_v more_o for_o the_o roman_a church_n than_o for_o the_o reformer_n drs._n all_o scripture_n ought_v not_o to_o be_v expound_v literal_o which_o do_v not_o imply_v a_o contradiction_n in_o a_o literal_a sense_n i_o be_o a_o vine_n ought_v not_o to_o be_v expound_v literal_o yet_o it_o imply_v no_o contradiction_n or_o at_o lest_o no_o more_o than_o this_o christ_n be_v bread._n cath._n i_o be_o a_o vine_n do_v imply_v a_o contradiction_n for_o christ_n can_v be_v christ_n and_o a_o vine_n at_o the_o same_o time_n christ_n
be_v bread_n be_v also_o a_o contradiction_n but_o where_o be_v that_o proposition_n in_o scripture_n or_o what_o catholic_n in_o the_o world_n hold_v it_o we_o say_v that_o which_o be_v bread_n cease_v to_o be_v bread_n and_o become_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v no_o more_o a_o contradiction_n than_o to_o say_v that_o which_o be_v water_n cease_v to_o be_v water_n and_o become_v wine_n drs._n that_o text_n you_o build_v your_o faith_n upon_o this_o be_v my_o body_n imply_v a_o contradiction_n for_o it_o must_v signify_v this_o bread_n be_v my_o body_n which_o be_v as_o much_o a_o contradiction_n as_o christ_n be_v a_o vine_n or_o christ_n be_v bread_n which_o you_o have_v acknowledge_v already_o for_o a_o contradiction_n or_o else_o it_o must_v be_v a_o identical_a enuntiation_n and_o signify_v this_o my_o body_n be_v my_o body_n cath._n this_o bread_n be_v my_o body_n be_v a_o contradiction_n but_o can_v be_v mean_v in_o the_o text_n for_o in_o all_o language_n but_o english_a where_o the_o word_n which_o signify_v this_o be_v alter_v according_a to_o the_o different_a gender_n the_o antecedent_n be_v of_o to_o which_o this_o word_n shall_v relate_v it_o be_v always_o put_v in_o the_o neuter_n gender_n hoc_fw-la in_o latin_a and_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o greek_a which_o it_o can_v not_o be_v if_o it_o be_v to_o agree_v with_o bread_n or_o have_v relation_n to_o it_o that_o be_v always_o masculine_a as_o panis_fw-la in_o latin_a and_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o greek_a therefore_o to_o say_v this_o bread_n in_o the_o latin_a or_o greek_a language_n will_v be_v false_a grammar_n and_o english_a i_o suppose_v have_v no_o reason_n to_o govern_v the_o other_o language_n but_o they_o it_o they_o be_v more_o and_o old_a against_o one_o and_o new_a nor_o need_v it_o be_v this_o body_n be_v my_o body_n the_o particle_n this_o be_v a_o pronoun_n demonstrative_a signify_v only_o some_o exterior_a object_n undeterminded_a as_o to_o its_o nature_n or_o name_n without_o some_o other_o additional_a word_n as_o this_o be_v a_o horse_n this_o be_v a_o hat_n be_v i_o hope_v proper_a speech_n and_o therefore_o no_o identical_a enuntiation_n this_o only_a suppose_n a_o object_n exist_v and_o expose_v to_o sense_n and_o determine_v by_o the_o follow_a word_n hat_n or_o horse_n of_o what_o nature_n and_o quality_n it_o be_v beside_o this_o be_v my_o body_n be_v a_o efficient_a proposition_n and_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o the_o change_n which_o be_v not_o wrought_v till_o the_o proposition_n be_v complete_v and_o therefore_o this_o be_v not_o determine_v till_o the_o whole_a be_v pronounce_v drs._n it_o be_v impossible_a it_o shall_v be_v take_v in_o your_o sense_n for_o transubstantiation_n can_v be_v without_o a_o miracle_n and_o no_o miracle_n can_v be_v without_o appear_v so_o to_o sense_n nay_o it_o will_v destroy_v all_o possibility_n of_o judge_v of_o any_o other_o miracle_n they_o be_v not_o to_o be_v discern_v but_o by_o sense_n which_o can_v be_v rely_v upon_o if_o it_o may_v be_v deceive_v in_o this_o cath._n a_o miracle_n may_v be_v and_o yet_o not_o appear_v to_o sense_n to_o be_v so_o yet_o aught_o to_o be_v believe_v for_o the_o hypostatical_a union_n be_v never_o discern_v by_o sense_n yet_o be_v believe_v a_o true_a miracle_n so_o that_o your_o first_o proposition_n be_v false_a to_o your_o second_o i_o pray_v say_v whether_o it_o be_v possible_a for_o god_n to_o make_v a_o thing_n appear_v to_o sense_n to_o be_v what_o it_o be_v not_o then_o suppose_v it_o possible_a may_v not_o god_n discover_v to_o man_n that_o he_o have_v make_v a_o thing_n to_o appear_v one_o thing_n and_o to_o be_v another_o as_o well_o as_o he_o have_v discover_v that_o the_o divinity_n be_v unite_v to_o christ_n humanity_n though_o no_o such_o thing_n appear_v if_o he_o may_v and_o do_v ought_v i_o to_o believe_v god_n word_n against_o my_o own_o sense_n or_o my_o sense_n against_o god_n word_n notwithstanding_o this_o my_o sense_n shall_v judge_v of_o a_o miracle_n at_o all_o time_n unless_o when_o god_n assure_v i_o upon_o his_o word_n that_o his_o omnipotency_n have_v interpose_v between_o my_o sense_n and_o their_o natural_a object_n drs._n but_o we_o will_v show_v you_o by_o the_o father_n and_o not_o of_o the_o first_o 300_o year_n but_o since_o that_o your_o doctrine_n be_v not_o hold_v neither_o in_o the_o greek_a nor_o latin_a church_n cath._n we_o do_v expect_v you_o shall_v show_v we_o by_o the_o scripture_n and_o father_n of_o all_o age_n and_o do_v not_o care_v to_o be_v complemented_a or_o spare_v as_o to_o the_o first_o 300_o year_n if_o you_o have_v any_o authority_n from_o those_o time_n let_v we_o see_v they_o and_o very_o clear_o that_o your_o contrary_a doctrine_n be_v hold_v else_o you_o can_v be_v justify_v or_o excuse_v from_o schism_n in_o your_o separation_n dr._n it_o be_v sufficient_a to_o show_v against_o you_o that_o your_o doctrine_n have_v not_o have_v that_o constant_a succession_n you_o boast_v of_o and_o that_o i_o will_v do_v by_o produce_v instance_n plain_a and_o clear_a that_o your_o doctrine_n be_v not_o maintain_v in_o one_o certain_a age_n since_o christ_n cath._n though_o that_o can_v never_o justify_v your_o separation_n or_o make_v your_o communion_n safe_a for_o if_o it_o be_v not_o safe_a to_o stay_v in_o the_o roman_a communion_n because_o a_o doctrine_n believe_v by_o they_o be_v in_o one_o age_n since_o christ_n time_n not_o believe_v it_o can_v never_o be_v safe_a to_o abide_v in_o you_o where_o many_o doctrine_n be_v now_o believe_v which_o you_o acknowledge_v be_v not_o believe_v by_o the_o true_a church_n for_o many_o hundred_o year_n together_o yet_o let_v we_o hear_v your_o proof_n dr._n i_o will_v show_v you_o a_o homily_n use_v in_o the_o saxon_a church_n from_o which_o you_o shall_v see_v how_o that_o church_n and_o your_o augustin_n agree_v in_o this_o doctrine_n cath._n at_o lest_o it_o be_v some_o kindness_n to_o grant_v augustin_n to_o be_v we_o who_o convert_v england_n above_o 1000_o year_n ago_o narr_n true_o the_o homily_n we_o do_v never_o see_v before_o nor_o never_o hear_v of_o it_o nor_o do_v we_o know_v what_o credit_n it_o bear_v nor_o can_v i_o remember_v the_o word_n exact_o but_o in_o the_o first_o place_n the_o doctor_n quote_v for_o he_o produce_v two_o the_o sense_n be_v that_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n which_o the_o priest_n consecrate_a at_o mass_n be_v turn_v into_o the_o true_a body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n which_o text_n we_o pray_v the_o doctor_n to_o read_v in_o english_a which_o he_o do_v and_o after_o a_o little_a stumble_v at_o the_o word_n missam_fw-la he_o tell_v we_o he_o care_v not_o though_o he_o render_v it_o mass_n which_o he_o do_v this_o very_a quotation_n we_o urge_v against_o he_o but_o he_o tell_v we_o this_o must_v be_v explain_v by_o another_o in_o which_o he_o bring_v we_o the_o same_o or_o like_a word_n again_o concern_v the_o change_n but_o at_o the_o end_n of_o the_o sentence_n be_v these_o word_n in_o a_o distinct_a remarkable_a character_n not_o corporal_o but_o spiritual_o where_o or_o by_o who_o this_o book_n be_v print_v we_o can_v not_o learn_v or_o what_o authority_n it_o be_v of_o but_o it_o may_v very_o well_o be_v authentic_a for_o all_o that_o distinction_n it_o be_v frequent_o use_v by_o modern_a catholic_n who_o be_v not_o deny_v to_o hold_v the_o doctrine_n of_o transubstantiation_n they_o common_o say_v that_o it_o be_v not_o change_v corporal_o take_v corporal_o to_o signify_v carnal_o as_o the_o capharnait_v understand_v our_o bless_a lord_n when_o he_o speak_v of_o this_o mystery_n but_o spiritual_o take_v that_o to_o signfie_v as_o st._n paul_n use_v the_o word_n spiritual_n speak_v of_o the_o resurrection_n where_o he_o say_v it_o be_v sow_v a_o natural_a body_n it_o rise_v a_o spiritual_a body_n there_o be_v a_o natural_a body_n and_o there_o be_v a_o spiritual_a body_n now_o if_o this_o way_n of_o speak_v be_v frequent_o use_v by_o those_o who_o be_v notwithstanding_o such_o a_o expression_n confess_v to_o hold_v transubstantiation_n why_o must_v it_o signify_v more_o evident_o the_o contrary_a doctrine_n in_o this_o author_n than_o it_o do_v in_o other_o especial_o when_o this_o author_n deliver_v the_o roman_a doctrine_n in_o this_o point_n in_o his_o other_o expression_n as_o evident_o and_o plain_o as_o can_v be_v and_o cite_v the_o mass_n as_o the_o doctor_n confess_v but_o he_o stand_v not_o much_o upon_o this_o question_n but_o lay_v his_o whole_a stress_n upon_o two_o other_o dr._n i_o will_v prove_v now_o evident_o that_o your_o doctrine_n be_v contradict_v in_o the_o five_o age_n both_o by_o the_o greek_a and_o latin_a church_n nay_o by_o a_o pope_n of_o rome_n
himself_n for_o gelasius_n dispute_v against_o the_o eutychian_o who_o maintain_v that_o the_o human_a nature_n of_o christ_n be_v change_v into_o the_o divine_a nature_n so_o that_o there_o be_v but_o one_o nature_n in_o christ_n confute_v their_o heresy_n by_o show_v that_o the_o human_a nature_n be_v no_o more_o change_v into_o the_o divine_a nature_n than_o bread_n be_v change_v into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n that_o be_v not_o at_o all_o for_o gelasius_n have_v these_o express_a word_n certain_o sacramenta_fw-la quae_fw-la sumimus_fw-la corporis_fw-la &_o sanguinis_fw-la christi_fw-la divina_fw-la res_fw-la est_fw-la propter_fw-la quod_fw-la &_o per_fw-la eadem_fw-la efficimur_fw-la divinae_fw-la consortes_fw-la naturae_fw-la &_o tamen_fw-la esse_fw-la non_fw-la desinit_fw-la substantia_fw-la vel_fw-la natura_fw-la panis_fw-la &_o vini_fw-la &_o certe_fw-la imago_fw-la &_o similitudo_fw-la corporis_fw-la &_o sanguinis_fw-la in_o actione_n mysteriorum_fw-la celebrantur_fw-la which_o be_v in_o english_a thus_o true_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n which_o we_o take_v be_v a_o divine_a thing_n and_o by_o they_o we_o be_v make_v partaker_n of_o the_o divine_a nature_n and_o yet_o the_o substance_n or_o nature_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n do_v not_o cease_v to_o be_v and_o true_o the_o image_n and_o similitude_n of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n be_v celebrate_v in_o the_o action_n of_o the_o mystery_n where_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n be_v not_o change_v into_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n theodoret_n prove_v the_o same_o thing_n for_o he_o say_v the_o mystical_a sign_n after_o consecration_n do_v not_o recede_v from_o their_o nature_n but_o do_v remain_v in_o their_o former_a substance_n figure_n and_o form_n and_o may_v be_v see_v and_o touch_v as_o before_o this_o evident_o contradict_v transubstantiation_n cath._n to_o the_o company_n we_o desire_v you_o to_o remember_v that_o you_o must_v have_v clear_a proof_n to_o justify_v the_o alteration_n much_o clear_a than_o those_o in_o possession_n can_v bring_v for_o the_o doctrine_n they_o continue_v to_o hold_v and_o which_o the_o other_o will_v reform_v be_v please_v to_o consider_v these_o two_o quotation_n here_o bring_v i_o suppose_v the_o clear_a they_o have_v if_o not_o all_o they_o have_v and_o if_o they_o do_v not_o appear_v clear_a against_o they_o i_o be_o confident_a they_o will_v appear_v either_o nonsense_n or_o contradiction_n and_o far_o enough_o from_o be_v clear_a for_o they_o than_o any_o we_o can_v bring_v for_o our_o doctrine_n which_o yet_o they_o ought_v to_o be_v to_o excuse_v their_o schism_n from_o be_v wilful_a and_o criminal_a we_o will_v examine_v theodoret_n first_o he_o write_v against_o eutyches_n as_o the_o doctor_n have_v tell_v you_o which_o he_o do_v by_o way_n of_o dialogue_n between_o eraniste_n and_o eutychian_a and_o orthodoxus_n which_o be_v himself_o in_o these_o word_n eranist_n it_o happen_v lucky_o that_o you_o speak_v of_o the_o divine_a 1617._o mystery_n for_o even_o from_o that_o very_a thing_n i_o will_v show_v you_o that_o the_o body_n of_o our_o lord_n be_v change_v into_o another_o nature_n answer_v i_o therefore_o to_o what_o i_o ask_v orthodox_n i_o will_v answer_v eran._n what_o do_v you_o call_v that_o gift_n which_o be_v bring_v before_o the_o invocation_n of_o the_o priest_n orth._n that_o which_o be_v make_v nourishment_n of_o a_o certain_a grain_n eran._n how_o do_v we_o call_v the_o other_o sign_n orth._n a_o common_a name_n which_o signify_v a_o kind_n of_o drink_n eran._n but_o after_o consecration_n what_o do_v you_o call_v they_o orth._n the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o blood_n of_o christ_n eran._n and_o do_v you_o believe_v that_o you_o be_v make_v partaker_n of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n orth._n i_o do_v believe_v it_o eran._n as_o therefore_o the_o symbol_n of_o the_o lord_n body_n and_o blood_n be_v one_o thing_n before_o the_o invocation_n of_o the_o priest_n and_o after_o the_o invocation_n be_v change_v and_o be_v make_v another_o thing_n so_o the_o body_n of_o our_o lord_n after_o assumption_n be_v change_v into_o the_o divine_a substance_n orth._n thou_o be_v catch_v in_o the_o net_n which_o thou_o thyself_o have_v weave_v for_o the_o mystical_a sign_n after_o consecration_n do_v not_o recede_v from_o their_o nature_n but_o do_v remain_v in_o their_o former_a substance_n and_o figure_n and_o form_n and_o may_v be_v touch_v as_o before_o but_o be_v understand_v to_o be_v what_o they_o be_v make_v and_o be_v believe_v and_o be_v adore_v as_o be_v the_o same_o thing_n which_o they_o be_v believe_v cath._n i_o pray_v be_v please_v to_o ask_v the_o doctor_n whether_o this_o whole_a discourse_n now_o cite_v be_v not_o build_v and_o found_v upon_o the_o supposition_n of_o transubstantiation_n drs._n i_o do_v acknowledge_v the_o argument_n be_v found_v upon_o that_o supposition_n but_o it_o be_v bring_v by_o a_o heretic_n a_o eutychian_a which_o be_v not_o much_o for_o the_o credit_n of_o your_o doctrine_n cath._n yes_o we_o account_v it_o much_o for_o the_o credit_n of_o our_o doctrine_n that_o you_o can_v name_v any_o age_n in_o which_o you_o be_v not_o force_v to_o allow_v that_o it_o be_v profess_v you_o say_v it_o be_v profess_v in_o this_o age_n only_o by_o heretic_n make_v that_o out_o if_o you_o can_v more_o clear_a than_o i_o will_v the_o contrary_a i_o do_v assure_v you_o your_o two_o quotation_n will_v not_o do_v it_o as_o i_o will_v show_v you_o present_o but_o the_o contrary_n seem_v evident_a viz._n that_o the_o heretic_n do_v not_o differ_v from_o the_o catholic_n in_o this_o point_n for_o eutyches_n who_o be_v condemn_v at_o a_o general_n council_n for_o maintain_v one_o nature_n only_o in_o christ_n will_v certain_o have_v be_v condemn_v at_o the_o same_o time_n for_o hold_v transubstantiation_n have_v it_o be_v esteem_v a_o error_n by_o that_o age_n especial_o so_o absurd_a monstrous_a and_o idolatrous_a a_o one_o as_o doctor_n call_v it_o in_o his_o new_a book_n but_o he_o be_v not_o condemn_v nor_o so_o much_o as_o accuse_v of_o error_n in_o this_o point_n either_o by_o council_n or_o any_o particular_a writer_n of_o those_o many_o which_o have_v write_v against_o he_o and_o yet_o you_o do_v acknowledge_v that_o he_o and_o his_o adherent_n hold_v transubstantiation_n beside_o you_o confess_v that_o his_o argument_n be_v against_o a_o orthodox_n catholic_n found_v upon_o this_o supposition_n therefore_o most_o certain_o he_o take_v it_o for_o grant_v that_o the_o catholic_n allow_v the_o supposition_n for_o it_o will_v have_v be_v ridiculous_a to_o dispute_v upon_o a_o supposition_n which_o he_o know_v his_o adversary_n deny_v i_o shall_v account_v it_o absurd_a for_o i_o to_o argue_v against_o a_o protestant_n upon_o supposition_n of_o transubstantiation_n which_o i_o know_v they_o deny_v and_o so_o it_o will_v have_v be_v in_o eranist_n if_o he_o have_v not_o know_v that_o his_o adversary_n own_a that_o doctrine_n which_o he_o make_v the_o foundation_n of_o his_o argument_n beside_o theodoret_n himself_o a_o orthodox_n catholic_n make_v this_o discourse_n by_o way_n of_o dialogue_n will_v make_v himself_o ridiculous_a to_o frame_v it_o upon_o a_o supposition_n which_o he_o deny_v after_o all_o this_o the_o place_n now_o cite_v be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v so_o clear_a against_o we_o as_o it_o ought_v to_o be_v to_o vanquish_v our_o stand_a possession_n that_o the_o century-writer_n of_o magdeburg_n who_o be_v domini_fw-la great_a enemy_n of_o popery_n and_o transubstantiation_n do_v condemn_v theodoret_n of_o that_o doctrine_n from_o this_o very_a place_n and_o do_v say_v he_o speak_v dangerous_o of_o the_o lord_n supper_n in_o say_v that_o after_o consecration_n the_o symbol_n of_o our_o lord_n body_n and_o blood_n be_v change_v and_o make_v another_o thing_n and_o the_o word_n next_o after_o these_o which_o you_o quote_v as_o such_o clear_a one_o against_o our_o doctrine_n must_v either_o import_v idolatry_n according_a to_o the_o aforesaid_a new_a book_n or_o nonsense_n if_o they_o do_v not_o imply_v the_o actual_a presence_n of_o christ_n person_n by_o transubstantiation_n for_o he_o say_v they_o the_o mystical_a sign_n be_v understand_v what_o they_o be_v make_v and_o believe_v and_o be_v adore_v as_o be_v the_o same_o thing_n they_o be_v believe_v so_o that_o the_o whole_a sense_n be_v thus_o the_o symbol_n of_o our_o lord_n body_n and_o blood_n be_v one_o thing_n before_o and_o another_o after_o consecration_n yet_o they_o continue_v so_o in_o their_o nature_n substance_n figure_n and_o form_n as_o to_o be_v see_v and_o touch_v as_o before_o but_o be_v understand_v to_o be_v what_o they_o be_v make_v by_o consecration_n and_o be_v believe_v and_o be_v adore_v as_o be_v the_o same_o thing_n they_o be_v believe_v i._n e._n notwithstanding_o they_o be_v
ten_o time_n great_a if_o there_o be_v any_o degree_n in_o miracle_n than_o this_o which_o you_o can_v believe_v for_o its_o difficulty_n viz._n transubstantiation_n especial_o when_o we_o can_v show_v in_o every_o age_n when_o any_o opposition_n be_v make_v to_o this_o doctrine_n who_o they_o be_v that_o do_v it_o and_o what_o become_v of_o they_o berengarius_fw-la be_v above_o a_o hundred_o year_n before_o the_o lateran_n council_n yet_o we_o can_v show_v that_o he_o be_v oppose_v by_o bishop_n and_o father_n of_o almost_o all_o country_n as_o by_o lanfranck_n of_o canterbury_n durandus_fw-la troaernensis_n guitmundus_n four_o bishop_n of_o rome_n and_o by_o the_o pastor_n of_o all_o country_n how_o he_o recant_v three_o time_n and_o how_o he_o die_v joannes_n scotus_n erigena_n who_o live_v about_o two_o hundred_o year_n before_o and_o have_v lay_v some_o ground_n for_o berengarius_fw-la his_o error_n be_v treat_v as_o a_o innovator_n by_o hincmarus_n and_o other_o himself_o force_v to_o retire_v out_o of_o france_n and_o his_o book_n not_o hear_v of_o again_o till_o two_o hundred_o year_n after_o and_o no_o man_n live_a can_v tell_v we_o when_o this_o absurd_a doctrine_n as_o the_o doctor_n call_v it_o which_o have_v have_v such_o success_n in_o the_o world_n as_o to_o obtain_v belief_n universal_o for_o several_a hundred_o year_n ever_o have_v any_o beginning_n or_o any_o considerable_a opposition_n for_o though_o the_o word_n transubstantiation_n be_v not_o common_o use_v before_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n it_o matter_n not_o nor_o make_v any_o new_a belief_n since_o it_o have_v always_o be_v the_o constant_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n in_o the_o general_a council_n when_o it_o do_v condemn_v heretical_a opinion_n or_o decide_v any_o point_n in_o debate_n to_o expound_v the_o true_a sense_n of_o scripture_n upon_o that_o very_a point_n by_o some_o very_a significant_a word_n to_o leave_v no_o occasion_n of_o cavil_v or_o dispute_v upon_o its_o decision_n declare_v by_o a_o explicit_a act_n and_o positive_a definition_n what_o be_v the_o true_a sense_n of_o soripture_n and_o what_o implicit_o all_o the_o whole_a catholic_a church_n do_v believe_v before_o as_o it_o appear_v in_o several_a other_o council_n as_o in_o that_o of_o nice_a against_o the_o arian_n where_o the_o word_n consubstantial_a be_v find_v out_o to_o condemn_v their_o heresy_n they_o pretend_v that_o the_o son_n be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d that_o be_v of_o like_a substance_n to_o the_o father_n when_o the_o council_n define_v he_o to_o be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d i._n e._n of_o the_o same_o substance_n or_o consubstantial_a the_o same_o you_o may_v observe_v in_o the_o council_n of_o chalcedon_n where_o nestorius_n be_v condemn_v by_o the_o new_a distinction_n of_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d gent._n suppose_v sir_n that_o the_o roman_a doctrine_n in_o this_o point_n be_v false_a and_o their_o practice_n idolatry_n and_o yet_o both_o be_v universal_a for_o several_a age_n together_o which_o way_n can_v the_o church_n of_o england_n pretend_v to_o good_a and_o lawful_a ordination_n for_o they_o pretend_v to_o none_o but_o what_o they_o receive_v from_o idolater_n i._n e._n the_o church_n of_o rome_n dr._n very_o well_o for_o though_o they_o be_v idolater_n they_o may_v give_v good_a and_o lawful_a ordination_n for_o the_o very_a church_n of_o rome_n hold_v that_o mortal_a sin_n do_v not_o hinder_v a_o bishop_n or_o priest_n from_o execute_v his_o function_n cath._n all_o mortal_a sin_n may_v not_o hinder_v a_o bishop_n from_o execute_v his_o function_n or_o give_v good_a and_o lawful_a ordination_n yet_o some_o may_v for_o if_o a_o bishop_n shall_v become_v a_o jew_n and_o the_o same_o thing_n may_v be_v say_v if_o he_o become_v a_o idolater_n you_o sure_o will_v not_o allow_v he_o to_o give_v good_a and_o lawful_a christian_a ordination_n for_o that_o which_o destroy_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n or_o a_o christian_a must_v needs_o disable_v those_o it_o fall_v upon_o from_o give_v legal_a commission_n at_o least_o to_o other_o to_o govern_v the_o church_n or_o to_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n of_o christ_n drs._n there_o be_v two_o sort_n of_o idolatry_n one_o of_o the_o heathen_n and_o another_o if_o you_o will_v have_v it_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n cath._n we_o will_v have_v any_o thing_n that_o you_o will_v make_v evident_a but_o when_o you_o tell_v we_o of_o two_o sort_n of_o idolatry_n i_o hope_v you_o do_v not_o mean_v material_a and_o formal_a idolatry_n the_o first_o of_o which_o if_o pure_o such_o be_v no_o crime_n we_o speak_v all_o along_o of_o formal_a idolatry_n which_o you_o must_v accuse_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n of_o or_o else_o 〈◊〉_d nothing_o 〈◊〉_d if_o you_o do_v i_o pray_v show_v how_o the_o nature_n of_o formal_a 〈◊〉_d become_v change_v by_o its_o relation_n to_o heathen_n from_o what_o it_o be_v when_o it_o relate_v to_o a_o papist_n i_o doubt_v you_o mean_v by_o your_o two_o sort_n of_o idolatry_n idolatry_n which_o be_v idolatry_n and_o idolatry_n which_o be_v not_o idolatry_n like_o the_o honest_a preacher_n 〈◊〉_d talk_v of_o three_o sort_n of_o seeker_n one_o that_o seek_v and_o find_v another_o who_o seek_v and_o do_v not_o find_v and_o a_o three_o which_o neither_o seek_v nor_o find_v the_o first_o idolatry_n 〈◊〉_d belong_v to_o the_o heathen_n and_o the_o second_o the_o no_o idolatry_n to_o the_o papist_n and_o now_o we_o shall_v leave_v it_o to_o the_o judgement_n of_o this_o worthy_a company_n to_o consider_v how_o clear_a and_o evident_a you_o have_v make_v it_o that_o you_o have_v such_o just_a cause_n to_o separate_v from_o the_o whole_a church_n as_o to_o excuse_v you_o from_o formal_a or_o criminal_a schism_n finis_fw-la a_o relation_n of_o a_o conference_n apr._n 3._o 1676._o theod._n tom._n 2._o dial._n 2._o pag._n 236._o edit_fw-la colon._n 1617._o magd_a cent._n 5._o cap._n 4._o de_fw-la inclinatione_fw-la doct._n tit_n de_fw-fr coena_fw-la domini_fw-la ibid._n dial._n 2._o pag._n 234._o st._n cyp._n de_fw-fr c●en_n domini_fw-la