A Mirrour of Popish SVBTILTIES Discouering sundry wretched and miserable euasions and shifts which a secret cauilling Papist in the behalfe of one Paul Spence Priest yet liuing and lately prisoner in the Castle of Worcester hath gathered out of Sanders Bellarmine and others for the auoyding and discrediting of sundrie allegations of scriptures and Fathers against the doctrine of the Church of Rome concerning Sacraments the sacrifice of the Masse Transubstantiation Iustification c. Written by Rob. Abbot Minister of the word of God in the Citie of Worcester The contents see in the next Page after the Preface to the Reader Perused and allowed TC VIRESSIT VVLNERE VERITAS LONDON Printed by Thomas Creede for Thomas Woodcocke dwelling in Paules Church-yard 1594. TO THE MOST REVEREND FATHER IN GOD THE L. Archbishop of Canterbury his Grace Primate and Metrapolitane of all England and to the right reuerend Father in God the L. Bishop of Worcester R. A. wisheth all abundance of grace and peace with euerlasting life REuerend Fathers it may seeme perhaps some presumptiō in me to be thus bold to vse your LL. names for the countenancing of this Pamphlet which neither for the matter of it nor for the occasion may seeme worthy of the notice or sight of so graue and learned Fathers Notwithstanding being drawne to the publication hereof partly by the importunity of aduersaries partly by the desire and expectation of friends I thought it very requisite both in respect of the cause it selfe and in respect of mine owne priuate dutie to offer these my simple labours to the protection of your LL. The matter hereof in the beginning was only priuate betwixt my selfe and a Romish Priest one Paul Spence deteined as then in the Castle of Worcester now I know not vpon what occasion liuing at his libertie abroad But when by speech and report it was drawne to occasion of publicke scandall the aduersary bragging in secret of a victory and others doubting what to thinke thereof because they saw not to the contrary I iudged it necessary after long debating deliberating with my selfe to let all men see how litle reason there was of any such insolent tryumph supposing that it might be turned vppon mee for a matter of iust reproofe and blame if my concealing hereof should cause any disaduantage to the truth or any discredite of that Ministery seruice which vnder your LL. I execute in the place where I am Now I must professe that my thus doing is only for the Citie of Worcester and others thereabout for their satisfaction in this cause wherein I know many of them haue desired to be satisfied Your LL. are both by speciall occasion affectioned to the place I know my paines shal be the better accepted with them if it shall be vouchsafed your LL. gracious and fauourable acceptation Moreouer the fauour which I haue receiued of both your LL of the one in commending mee to the place where I am of the other in yeelding me speciall patronage eountenance therein hath bound me to yeeld vnto you these my first frutes though but as a handful of water yet a testimony of my dutifull and thankfull minde And if it shall finde no other cause to be liked of yet in this I doubt not but it shall be approued that it is a iust defense of truth against the vaine cauillations of error The speciall drift of my writing is to approue concerning the matters that are heere in hand our faithful vpright dealing in alleaging the Fathers against the doctrine of the church of Rome Whose proctors for a time vsed the name of the catholick church as a fray-bug to terrifie al mē from speaking against them But when they were perforce vrged to the scriptures they cryed out that wee expounde the scriptures amisse and otherwise then the auncient Fathers did vnderstand them Being further pressed with the testimonies and authorities of the auncient Fathers they stil notwithstanding exclaime that wee abuse them also and alleage them to other purpose then euer they entended A strange matter that the plaine words both of the scriptures and of the Fathers being so expresly for vs yet their meaning and purpose as these men pretend should be altogither against vs. But whilest they endeuour to iustifie this either open exclamation or priuie whispering it is strange to see how strangely and madly they deale a Eccl. 19. 24. There is saith the wise man a subtiltie that is fine but it is vnrighteous and there is that wresteth the open and manifest lawe Verily there is nothing so euident nothing so manifest but these men haue a speciall facultie to turne it out of the way that it would goe and by a distinction of this maner and that maner to set a meaning vppon it which neuer came into the meaning of him that wrote it In which practise and occupation it falleth out with them which Ireneus sayd of the heretickes of his time b Iren lib. ◠cap. 1◠There is none perfect amongst them but such a one as doth not ably cogge and lye Indeed lyes cannot be defended but by lying and false gloses must serue to maintaine false and erroneous assertions Which is not a litle to be seen in this libell or pamphlet which I haue here to refute the Authour whereof taketh vpon him lyke a cunnyng Alcumist to turne euery thing into what he list as if he supposed vs to be men bewitched and transformed into beastes sticketh not to make such constructions of the scriptures and Fathers sayings as no man that hath but the common reason and vnderstanding of a man can but see to bee leaudly and vnreasonably deuised Wherat I should the lesse maruell if they were only this mans deuise I would impute this folly to him onely But now hee hath taken the most of them out of their learned Treatises forsooth to which he oft referreth me as if they were the Oracle of all truth So that the spirit of this phrensie and madnesse goeth through the heades of them all whereby it commeth to passe that they take delight in those things which they cannot but know to be absurd That their maisters know so much it seemeth to vs apparant for that they forbid their scholers and followers to be acquainted with any of our writings wherein theyr absurdities and falshoods are layd open and wheras we in answearing them propose both theirs and ours indifferently to all men to be iudged of they giue their pupils some libertie to read their bookes but it is damnation for them to touch any of ours Such schollers would be suspicious of such maisters but that they are maruellously blinded with preiudice and selfe will Now as many other by other occasions so I the least of all by occasion offered to me haue taken vpon me for this present matter to shew I will not say how vainly fondly but wickedly and vnshamefastly they deale in peruerting they call it answering
religion by reason of any such opinion that Christ was really bound in them or in the eares of corne or branches of the vine because then all bread and all wine should haue béene matter of mystery and religion with them which was not so but it is made mysticall bread and wine by a certaine coÌ„secration namely whilest by the word of God they are dedicated and halowed to be sacrameÌ„ts and mysteries of the body and bloud of Christ The which consecrating halowing the same S. Austen elsewhere declareth thus concerning Baptisme m August â—n Ioha tri 8â— The word commeth to the element and it is mede a sacrament in an other place concerning the Lords supper thus n Idem de trâ—nit lib. 3. cap. 4. We call that the body of Christ which being taken of the fruites of the earth consecrated by mystical praier wee receiue in memory of the passion of our Lord. Now what is all this to the real presence which the Answerer saith S. Austen did graunt Not a word doth S. Austen vse to import it Nay he rather reiecteth it in that he saith that bread and wine are not vsed in sacrament as in respect of Christ really bound in them but are made only mystical by consecration where he denieth that reall presence which they fancied and putteth no other in place therof but only saith that the bread is made mysticall bread by consecration As for Transsubstantiation he is plainely enough against it also in the same place in that he calleth the sacrament the sacrament of bread and of the cuppe wherby we vnderstand that the sacrament is bread and in that he denieth that the church had the same religion concerning bread and wine that the Manichées had because it was not religion but sacriledge with the Manichées to tast wine importing hereby that it was wine which the church tooke tasted in the sacrament But the Papistes reall presence iumpeth with the Manichées imprisoning of Christ for they make Christ so fast bound by consecration to the formes of bread and wine that though ratts or mise or swine eate the same or though it lie in the mire yet it must not be thought but that the body of Christ is there stil euen till the formes be consumed and to thinke otherwise as Thomas Aquinas saith derogateth from the truth of the sacrament as after shal be declared To his sixt circumstance I answere him that the Lateran councell was the assembly of Gog and Magog to set the idoll Mauzim in his place That which they resolued against Berengarius they reselued against all the Fathers who neuer knew reall presence nor transsubstantiation As for Innodentius his breadinesse and wininesse panietas vineitas in the seauenth circumstance the Answ would not haue named it but that swine are delighted with mire and filth The eight circumstaÌ„ce also containeth only new Popish subtilties and deserueth no answere The putting in therof and others as impertinent by way of explication of Gelasius his wordes sheweth the falsehood of the Answ thinking nothing lesse then to deale plainely and seeking by friuolous tales and idle talke to lead the reader away from that which otherwise he cannot but sée The ninth circumstance telleth vs honestly that before the Laterane councell it was no heresy not to iumpe with Transsubstantiation And then belike a man might haue beene a Caluinist in that point as all the Fathers were and yet not to be accounted an hereticke At least he might haue said that the substaÌ„ces of bread wine did remaine in part but not wholly forsooth as perhappes saith the Answ some of the Fathers and namely Gelasius thought a ridiculous and childish fancy When we shew them plainely out of the Fathers that the substances of bread and wine remaine in the sacrament forsooth the Fathers thought that the substances of bread and wine remaine in part but not wholly What conscience may we thinke these men make of their answers Why doth he not bring somewhat out of the Fathers to approoue this fond sophistication vnhandsome dreame But it must be enough for vs that the Answ telleth vs that so it is But it is worth the noting that he telleth vs that it was not clearely defined before the Lateran councell what maner oâ— conuersion is in the sacrament No was Why did not the Apostles clearely know it or knowing it did they not deliuer it to yâ— church Did he which o Act. 20. 27. kept nothing back but declared all the councell of God kéepe backe this or did he deliuer it to the Ephesians and not deliuer it to the Romaines other churches To say the Apostles did not clearely know it is to make himselfe wiser then the Apostles To say they knew it but declared it not is to make them vnfaithful in their charge To say that the church receiued it cléerely deliuered and yet that it was neuer cléerely defined vntill the Lateran councell is a contradiction and impugneth that in the one part which is set downe in the other To say the church and namely the church of Rome receiued it and did afterwardes forgoe it is to make the church of Rome a very bad kéeper of the doctrines of the Apostles especially séeing the sacrament is a matter of continuall and daily vse But indéed we take that which he saith for true that Transsubstantiation was neuer cléerely defined before the Lateran councel But we tell him withall that we are very deinty to admit that for a doctrine of truth which for a thousand yeares and more after Christ was neuer cleerly knowen or defined in the church of God And because it was no heresy all that while not to iumpe with Transsubstantiation we are well assured that it is no heresy to leape from it now Now to returne to Gelasius the Answ findeth an hole or two in his wordes before alleaged whereby he would faine créepe out The wordes are thus There ceaseth not to be the substance or nature of bread and wine He addeth or nature saith the Answ to mollifie and interpret the word substance as importing that the naturall properties of bread and wine remaine though the substaÌ„ce be gone A very naturall answere Belike the substance remaineth or there ceaseth not to be the substance is as much as to say the substance is quite gone and vtterly ceased only the accidents remaine But Gelasius a little before speaketh in the very same sort concerning Christ and sheweth the meaning of his own wordes We say saith he that the propriety of each substance or nature abideth continually in Christ where most plainely by the same phrase of spéech he maketh substance and nature to import one thing And if we will follow the Answ exposition we must say here in the behalfe of Eutyches that not the substances themselues but the naturall properties of each substance abide stil in Christ because he saith substance or nature Againe a little before
not that because Christ taking y◠bread said thereof This is my bodie therefore the bread was turned into his bodie And this is so good Logicke that diuerse great maisters of his side haue plainly confessed that the wordes of the Gospell notwithstanding the aforesaid consent do not enforce Transubstantiation as I told him before and he answereth nothing to it Yea Bellarmine himselfe who hath taken vpon him to be the Atlas of Popery at this time after that he hath sweat and trauailed to proue it by the scripture when he hath all done is content to confesse so much For being vrged that Scotus and Cameracensis do say that there is no so expresse place of scripture that it can enforce to admit of Transubstantiation he answereth a Bellar. tom 2. contr 3. li 3. cap. 23. This indeed is not altogither vnlikely For although the scripture which I haue alleaged before seeme to vs so cleare that it is able to force a man that is not ouerthwart yet whether it be so or not it may worthily bee doubted for that most learned sharpe witted men such as Scotus especially was do thinke the contrary It is sufficient for our discharge that the Iesuit confesseth that it may iustly be doubted whether Transubstantiation may be proued by the scripture or not and that it is likely that indeed it cannot The matter then is come to this passe that Transubstantiation must be beléeued because of the authoritie of the Church of Rome but otherwise that it cannot be prooued by the authoritie of the scripture But we dare not trust the Church of Rome so farre as to receiue any doctrine of her without the warrant of the scripture For we are of Chrysostomes minde b Chrisost in Psal 95. If any thing saith he be spoken without scripture the minde of the hearer halteth or hangeth in suspense But when there commeth out of the scripture the testimony of the voyce of God it confirmeth both the minde of the hearer and the words of the speaker They must prooue it vnto vs by the scripture or else wee cannot bee assured of it But they cannot agrée how to expounde the wordes of scripture for it and the scripture it selfe is manifestly against it Christ saith This is my bodie The word This doth demonstrate and point to somewhat And what may that be One of them saith one thing and another saith another thing in fine they cannot tell So that we must suppose that Christ said This I know not what is my bodie Bellarmine commeth after all the rest to resolue the matter and he telleth vs that we must vnderstand it thus c Bellar. tom 2 cont 3 lib. 1. ca. 10. 11. This that is conteined vnder the formes is my bodie But the question is the same againe what is that conteined vnder the formes To say it is the bodie before all the words of consecration be spoken they themselues will not allow But except the bodie it can be nothing else but bread It is bread therefore to which the word This is referred perforce must the words be thus taken This bread is my body which again must néeds haue this meaning This bread is the signe and Sacrament of my bodie and consequently ouerthrow Transubstantiation Moreouer what Christ brake bid his Disciples take and eate that they did take and eate It was bread which he brake and bid them take and eate for the words of consecration were not yet spoken Therfore it was bread which they did take and eate But that which they did eate Christ called his bodie Therefore Christ called bread his bodie and meant This bread is my bodie So likewise as touching the other part of the Sacrament we say that what Christ willed them to drinke that they did drinke But Christ willed them to drinke wine saying Drinke ye all of this and this was wine because there was yet no consecration Therfore they did drinke wine That which they did drinke Christ called his blood The words therefore of Christ must be thus meant This wine is my blood And so he expoundeth himselfe immediatly when he calleth it This frute of the vine shewing hereby to what we must referre the word This when he saith This is my blood namely to the frute of the vine that is to say wine To auoyd these things thus plainly gathered from the circumstances of the text many blind shifts haue bene deuised but one especially most worthy to be noted d Tho. Aquin. pag. 3. q. 78. art 1. that the Euangelists doe not report these matters of the institution of the Sacrament in that order as they were spoken and done by our Sauiour Christ Thus to serue their turne the Euangelists must be controlled and vpon their word we must beléeue that these things are not so orderly set downe as the matter required I might adde hereunto how the scripture vsually calleth the Sacrament c Act. 20. 7. 1. Cor. 10. 16. 11. 26. 27. 28 bread euen after consecration in the breaking distributing and eating thereof then which what should we require more to assure vs that in substance it is bread indéede And of this spéech they can giue no certaine reason neither but are carried vp and downe from fancie to another as appeareth by Lanfrancus saying f Lanfran lib. de sacram Euchar◠It is called bread either because it was made of bread and retaineth some qualities therof or because it feedeth the soule or because it is the bodie of the sonne of God who is the bread of Angels or in some other maner which may be conceiued of them that are better learned but cannot of me They care not what they say it is so that they grant it not to be that that it is in truth But thus do they deserue to be led vp and down from errour to errour and follie to follie as it were after a dauncing fire who refuse to be guided and directed by the cleare and shining light of the euident word of God By this that hath bene said it may appeare sufficiently how litle hold the Answ hath in the consent of the Euange lists for the proofe of his Transubstantiation euen by the confession of his owne fellowes to whose wisedome and learning he doth greatly trust But yet once againe to proue it by the Gospell we haue another argument wherein the Answ as a sawcie fellow taketh vpon him to censure controll M. Beza and M. Fulke in a matter of Gréeke construction as he did M. Caluin and B. Iewell in other matters before But what may it be that he presumeth so much on Forsooth the Gréeke in Luc. 22. is so plaine against our doctrine and for proofe of Transubstantiation that Beza was greatly troubled there with and was faine to say that either S. Luke spake false Gréeke or else that somewhat was foisted into the text This argument Gregory Martin and others haue runne out of breath
of eating and drinking Iob. 6. are not to be vnderstood properly but by a figure sect 22. 23. 24. 25. 26. 27. 28. 30. That the Doctours of the Romish church by the defence of Transubstantiation haue bene driuen to most impious and damnable questions and assertions sect 29. That the place of the Gospell Luc. 22. 20. which they so much cauil vpon out of the Greeke maketh nothing at all for Transubstantiation as by diuerse other reasons so by the confession Bellarmine himselfe sect 31. That the assumption of the virgin Mary is a meere fable sect 33. That the Church hath no authoritie after the Apostles to authorize any scriptures and that we seclude no other bookes from the canon of the bible then the old church did sect 34. How wickedly the Papists deale in mangling and martyring the writings of the Fathers sect 35. That our doctrine of iustification before God by faith onely is the verie trueth which both the scriptures and out of them the Fathers haue manifestly taught that it maketh nothing against good workes that the place of S. Iames cap. 2. maketh nothing against it sect 36. May it please thee gentle Reader first of all to take notice of these two places of Chrysostome Gelasius which haue bene the occasion of all this controuersie for thy better satisfaction I haue noted them both in English and Latin though otherwise to auoyd both tediousnesse of writing and vnnecessarie charges of printing I haue thought good to set downe the places alleaged onely translated into English The place of Chrysostome against the vse of water in the cup of the Lords table CVius rei gratia non aquam sed vinum post resurrectionem bibit Chrysost in Math. hom 83. Perniciosam quandam haeresin radicitùs euellere voluit eorum qui aqua in mysterijs vtuntur Ita vt ostenderet quia quando hoc mysteriuÌ„ tradidit vnum tradidit etiam post resurrectionem in nuda mysterij mensae vino vsus est Exgenimine ait vitis quae certè vinum non aquam producit In English thus But why did Christ after his resurrection drinke not Water but Wine He would plucke vp by the rootes a certaine pernicious heresie of them which vse water in the Sacrament So that to shew that when he deliuered this Sacrament he deliuered wine euen after his resurrection also he vsed wine at the bare table of the Sacrament Of the fruite of the vine saith he which surely bringeth foorth wine and not water The place of Gelasius against Transubstantiation CErtè sacramenta quae sumimus corporis sanguinis Christi diuina Gelasius cont Eutych Nestor res est propter quod per eadem diuinae efficimur consortes naturae tamen esse non desiuit substantia vel natura panis vini Et certe imago similitudo corporis sanguinis Christi in actione mysteriorum celebrantur Satis ergò nobis euidenter ostenditur hoc nohis in ipso Christo domino sentiendum quod in eius imagine profitemur celebramus et sumimus vt sicut in haenc scilicet in diuinam transeunt sancto spiritu perficiente substantiam permanent tamen in suae proprietate naturae sic illud ipsum mysterium principale cuius nobis efficientiam virtutemque veracitèr repraesentant ex quibus constat propriè permanentibus vnum Christum quia integrum verumque permaenere demon strant In English thus Verily the Sacraments which we receiue of the bodie and blood of Christ are a diuine thing by reason whereof we also by them are made partakers of the diuine nature and yet there ceaseth not to be the substance or nature of bread and wine And surely an image or esemblance of the bodie and blood of Christ is celebrated in the action of the mysteries It is therefore euidently inough shewed vnto vs that we must thinke the same in our Lord Iesus Christ which we professe celebrate and receiue in his image that as these namely the bread and wine do by the working of the holie Ghost passe ouer into a diuine substance and yet continue in the proprietie of their owne nature so they shew that that principall mysterie the efficiencie vertue wherof these do represent vnto vs doth abide one Christ because whole and true those natures properly remaining whereof he doth consist M. Spence hauing had my bookes to peruse these places sent me in writing this answere to them SIr I right hartily thanke you for the willing minde you hauâ— towards me Truly I should be verie vnkinde if I knew mâ— selfe vnaffectioned to so much good will I am in prison and pouertie otherwise I should be some way answerable to your friendlinesse In the meane season good will shall be readie for good will Touching the words of S. Chrysostome He would plucke vp by the rootes a certaine pernicious heresie of them which vse water in the Sacrament c. Read the 32. Canon of the sixth Councell holden at Constantinople and there you shall find vpon what occasion this golden mouth did vtter these words and not only that but also mention of S. Iames and S. Basils masse or sacrifice left to the church in writing The words of the Canon begin thus Because we know that in the country of the Armenians wine onely is offered at the holie table c. The heresie therefore against which he wrote was of the a Vntruth For neither doth Chrysostome intimate any thing against the Armenians or such as vse wine only neither was it heresie in theÌ„ that did so Armenians and the Aquarians the first whereof would vse onely wine the other onely water in the holie mysteries Against which vse being so directly against both the scriptures and custome of the primitiue church he wrote the same which he saith of pernicious heresie as before I cannot doubt of your hauing the Councels or some of them Your other booke conteining the words of Gelasius I wil not yet answere being printed at Basil where we suspect many good works to be corrupted abused But if it proue so to be yet the whole faith of Christs church in that point may not be reproued against so many witnesses of scriptures and fathers b Neither scripture not Father auoucheth the contrarie auouching the contrarie Nay what words should Christ haue vsed if he had meant to make his bodie blood of the bread and wine as we say he did other then these This is my bodie which shall be giuen c. And gaine for this is my blood of the new Testament which shal be shead for many for remission of sinnes Marke well the speeches and they be most wonderfull as most true All the world and writings therein c The Gospell it selfe is sufficient to perswade him that will be perswaded â—nforming vs of a true and naturall bodie of Christ and not of a fantasticall bodie in the fashion quantitie of a wafer cake cannot
Which words amongst other it hath pleased those honest Censours of the King of Spains appointment to exempt from being Index Expâ— in censura Bertramâ— printed any more A shift wherewith the church of Romes factours haue made vs verie well acquainted in the workes of diuers Authors both old and new By the way as you touch this point you séeme to gleane for the defence of your Masse telling me that in the Canon aforesaid there is mention made of S. Iames and S. Basils Masse or Sacrifice left to the Church in writing By which spéech you put me in mind of that melancholy Athenian who standing at the sea shore would imagine of euery ship that he saw that it was his ship For in like sort whersoeuer you finde in any of the auncient Fathers mention made of the mysticall sacrifice you fancy it straight waies to be ment of your sacrilegious abhominable sacrifice of the Masse a cursed deuise of Satan therby to withhold men from the soueraign only sacrifice of the crosse of Christ Therfore wheras the Canon mentioneth only Sacrifice you alledge it to me Masse or Sacrifice But you shuld know that the Gréeke Fathers were not priuie to the name of your Masse how soeuer it please some of you to make a cogging argument to blinde the vnlearned by these titles S. Iames his Masse S. Chrysostomes Masse c. vsed by the translators but neuer meant by the Authors The Gréeke word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which they vsed may rather import our diuine-seruice then your prophane Masse And if it must néedes signifie Masse you may turne the magistrate into a Rom 13. 6. The Minister of God Rom. 15. 27. Phil. 2. 25. to minister vnto Heb. 1 14. ministring spirits Act. 13. 2. as they were ministâ—ing to the Lord. Masse-priâ—st because he is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you may say that to relieue the necessities of Saints is to say Masse because the Apostle vseth thereof the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and Angels shall be called Massing spirits because they are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 You remember since you wold néeds enforce the Apostles saying Masse by the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 how wel to the purpose you may hereby vnderstand Your Masse you call of the word Missa you should indéed rather of the word Massa as being an heape of vnprofitable ceremonies and wicked prophanations of the Sacrament of Iesus Christ But Missa importeth not sacrifice as you pretend it doth The olde vse of the word Missa discloseth the great abuse of your Masse It noted the sending away of non-communicants none being permitted to staie while the Sacrament was ministred but only such as did communicate So doth S. Austen declare speaking Au. de Temp. ser 232. as touching the Catechumeni that is such as were yet but nouices in religion and vnder chatechising and therefore as yet not permitted to be partakers of the holie mysteries nor to be present at the celebration thereof Behold saith he after the Sermon there is missa a dimission or sending away of such as are catechumeni the faithfull abide still we shall come to the place of praier c. And in the fourth Councell of Carthage order is taken that the Bishop shall forbid concil carthag 4. can 84. none to enter into the Church and heare the word of God whether he be Gentile hereticke or Iew vsque ad missam vntill the dimission or sending away of the catechumeni There is no such dimission in your Masse and of those that staie none are ordinarily partakers of the Sacrament but only the Priest The people are spectatours only of his stage-like and trifling iestures and go as emptie home as they came thither But in processe of time custome drew this wâ—râ— to note the celebration of the Sacrament which was administred to such as remained after this dimission Whence it is that the pretended Liturgies of S. Iames Basil and Chrysostome are by the translators tearmed by the name of Masse Whereas those Liturgies I doubt not if they were written by those men whose names they beare as some of them assuredly were not or if being written by them they remained as their Authors left them as by the varietie of the editions of Chrysostomes Liturgie it is plain they do not would rather resemble our communion wherein both the Minister and the people communicate togither in both kinds then your Masse wherein the people are either idle lookers on or when they are communicants are by your sacriledge communicants in one kinde onely and secluded from the other contrary altogither to the practise of the primitiue Church or which is more to the expresse institution of our Sauiour Christ And this is to be séene by those steps of antiquitie which as yet are found in those Liturgies neither do I sée what great aduantage you haue by them to set any colour vpon your Popish Masse saue only to blinde the eyes of the simple and vnlearned And whereas you alledged to me that there was in them praier for the dead there is good cause to thinke that those praiers were at the first but commemorations and thankesgiuings for the departed in the faith of Christ for that in Chrysostomes Liturgie we finde according to that which then I answered you thus We offer vnto thee ô Lord this reasonable seruice for those chrysost â—â—gia which rest in the faith our Auncestors Fathers the Patriarches Prophets Apostles Preachers Euangeliâ—tes Martyres especially for the most holie and pure virgin Mary c. But it is contrary to the custome of your church to your doctrine to pray for the virgin Mary for Martyrs c. And you vse to that purpose the saying of S. Austen He doth iniury to the Martyr which praieth for a Martyr Therfore August de verb Apo. ser 17. these were only spéeches of thankesgiuing vnto God for his louing mercy shewed to those through Iesus Christ make nothing at all for your praier for the dead To this being the auncient custome oâ— the Church S. Austen alludeth when he saith When the Aug. Euchiâ— cap. 10. sacrifices either of the altar or of any almes are offered for all that are dead they are for them that are very good thankesgiuings c. which custome of thankesgiuing generally we also vse for all that are departed hence in the faith of Iesus Christ As for that which he addeth For them that are not verie euill they are propitiations c. we take it to be a superstitious conceit which after crept into yâ— church contraried by many in S. Austens time as may appeare in his booke of questions to Dulcitius where proposing the question of Dulcitius whether oblations for the dead did auaile them whereby it appeareth it was a matter controuersed in that time he answereth To this many say that if there might be any good done herein August de 8. quaest
of the church mouth and eyes and spirit of the Church next Gods spirit a verie goodly noble and great part of the church far the best and fairest part of the church but their seuerall opinions are not the whole churches doctrine That question hath so many braunches that in this short discourse I cannot touch all the particularities thereof to our treatises therefore I refer you Was Gelasius Pope of Rome how proue it you if we deny it we maruell why you thinke so If he had bene Pope were all his bookes dogmaticke and definitiue b It skilleth not though he did not For Bellarmine telleth vs that it is most probable that the Pope cannot erre in his priuate iudgement It must be an Oracle therfore what soeuer he writeth whether as Pope or as a priuat man did he if he had bene Pope pronounce them pro tribunal◠Did he send them as responsa and decretall epistles Did neuer Popes write bookes and yet not in all points taken for Oracles Aeneas Siluius after he was Pope wrote much so did others You are wide and go astraie far from the state of that question I say no more but view our questions therein Theodoret Gelasius are answered at large whatsoeuer they thought they were far from your minde Theodoret at that time was so partiall as in the controuersie betweene him and Cyrill it appeareth that he was faine to recant ere he could bee reconciled And in these verie Dialogues we can shew you errors yea foule of his It is not vnlikely that hee followed sometimes the counsell that himselfe in the same Dialogues giueth that is to make a crooked wand straight to bend it as much the other way And now sir to come to Gelasius who in euerie point accordeth with Theodoret against the Eutychian heresie first he writeth thus Sapientia aedificauit sibi domum septiformis spiritus soliditate subnixam c. I will English it for the same cause Thus it is Wisedome that is Christ the wisedome of the father hath builded for it selfe an house grounded or leaning vpon the soundnesse of the seuenth fold spirit which should minister the foode or nourishment of Christs incarnation whereby or by which foode we are made partakers of the diuine nature Verily the Sacraments of the bodie blood of Christ which we receiue are a diuine thing for the which cause by the same also are we made partners of the diuine nature and yet the substance or nature of bread and wine ceaseth not to be or looseth not his being vtterly and is anihilated and becommeth nothing and certes in the action or celebration of the mysteries or Sacraments an image or similitude or resemblance of Christs bodie and blood is celebrated or practised It is therefore euident inough shewed vnto vs that we ought to thinke the same thing to bee in Christ our Lorde himselfe which we professe to be which we celebrate and which we receiue in his image he meaneth in the Sacrament that euen as they the Sacrament of bread and wine by the working of the holie Ghost do passe ouer or be chaunged into a diuine substance remaining neuerthelesse in the propertie of their nature right so do they shew that that verie principall mysterie it selfe by which he meaneth Christ God man now being in two natures one person in heauen whom the hereticke Eutyches would haue in heauen to haue lost his manhood and to be but God alone whose efficiencie or perfect nature and vertue they the sayd Sacraments do truly represent the things whereof it properly consisteth it is the two natures of the diuinitie and humanitie in one person still remaining doth remaine and continue one Christ because he is whole and truly being or consisting in his whole and true natures of God and man in one person This testimony of Gelasius might seeme perhaps to make somewhat for a Lutheran because it seemeth to affirme in the B. Sacrament to be two substances a diuine substance bread and wine but the Caluinist lacketh foure of his fiue wits to vrge it which maketh flat against him not only in the verie words but most chiefly in the drift of the argument against Eutyches which by the consideration c His circumstances serue only to blinde the eies of the reader The troubling of the riuer is for the aduantage of the fisher of the circumstances following shall most euidently appeare for that the verie words force of the reason or argument here made do proue Christs bodie to be really present which he denieth Eutyches the Abbot who was condemned in the Chalcedon Councell at which time Gelasius flourished held that our Sauiour Christ his deitie or diuine nature after his ascension into heauen did d As touching the substance not as touching the properties euen as the Papists say of the bread wine consume and anihilate or bring to nothing his humane nature So that by his heresie Christ now shuld be no more man but God alone The truth of the B. Sacrament that therein Christ was really continued was so commonly and firmely beleeued and professed in the holie church e That because neuer any Father taught it the Answerer is driuen to seeke proofe thereof from the heretickes that there were diuerse heretickes that vsed or rather abused the same for an argument pretensedly to confirme their heresies The Maniches to proue that the ill god such was their blasphemous heresie had imprisoned certaine parcels or peeces of the good God in these worldly creatures earthly things alleaged Christ whom they f Vntruth S. Austen doth not graunt it called the good God to be really in the Sacrament but S. Augustine graunting them Christ to be really therein saith hee is there by consecration not by creation or as it were imprisoned So touching our case of Gelasius the Eutychian against whom he wrote held Christ in heauen his humanitie being gone to be only God in like maner as his diuine nature only is in the Sacrament the bread and wine being anihilated and consumed vnto nothing g A leaud tale wholy deuised of the Answ himselfe Eutyches neuer imagined any such matter as shall appeare nothing therein remaining of the substantiall properties or natures of bread and wine but onely Christs diuine nature So certaine a veritie it was then currant in the whole church and to the verie heretickes that Christ is really in the B. Sacrament Whereupon by a similitude or resemblance taken from the Sacrament he wold haue nothing remaining in heauen of Christs humanitie but the same being vanished into nothing his Deitie only there to remain as the bread is cōsumed in the Sacrament Against this similitude Gelasius replieth not denying Christs bodie diuine nature to be really in the Sacrament which was and euer hath bene a generall currant and confessed truth which otherwise had serued his turne much better to deny and thereby had he more readily and directly reiected
instituting of bread to be the figure of his bodie Let him consider better whether this stand not with good construction to say Christ tooke bread and said therof This is my bodie that is to say a figure of my bodie But it had not bene or it should not haue bene a figure except there were a true bodie But yet he goeth farther Tertullian saith thus If Christ did therefore make bread his bodie because he wanted a true bodie then he should haue giuen the bread for vs. It made for the vanitie of Marcion that bread should be crucified These words saith he haue neither wit nor sense except it be supposed that Christs bodie is really in the Sacrament nay otherwise it must be bread that was crucified for vs. But except his wit and his sense did faile him he might find somwhat els in Tertullians words For stil he calleth the sacrameÌ„t bread putteth differeÌ„ce betwixt the bread that is called yâ— body and the true body it self so reasoneth against Marcion yâ— if Christ had not a true body indéed which he represented by bread in respect thereof called the same bread his body then the bread itselfe must be his bodie and consequently it was bread which was giuen and crucified for vs. But Marcion himselfe would not say that bread was crucified for vs Therefore he must néedes confesse that Christ had a true bodie figured by the bread And thus Tertullians reason against Marcion setteth downe bread in the Sacrament as a figure of Christes body and razeth the foundation of Popish Transubstantiation And this is yet againe plaine by these wordes to which he asketh me what I say that Christ called not a Pepon his body as he should haue done by Marcions opinion who held that Christ had in stéede of a heart a kinde of fruite called a Pepon but hee called bread his body because of the olde Figure namely because the Prophet vsing the name of bread to import the bodie of Christ did thereby prefigure that bread indéed should be appointed to be the figure and signe of the same bodie So that Christ did not renew an olde figure by consecrating or sanctifying the bread to be a figure of his bodie but fulfilled that in the trueth and substance of bread which Tertullian saith was foreshewed by the name of bread Thus much of Tertullians roundly wholly deliuered words where the Answ hath shewed as great folly in enlarging them as some other of his fellowes haue shewed falshood in clipping and paring them But to fill vp the measure of this follie he taketh vpon him by the way to censure Maister Iewell about a place alleaged out of the vnperfect worke vpon Math. Serm. 11. Which he doth in that péeuish and vaine sorte as that he sheweth himselfe to be led wholly with malice without any iudgment or discretion First he misliketh that he did alleage it in Chrisostomes name But why so Is it not as lawfull for maister Iewell or for the Church of England to doe so as it is for the Church of Roome and her followers k Sixt. Sâ—nâ—nâ— bâ—â—lâ—ot sanâ—â— 4 in lâ—â—n Câ—rysâ—st The Church of Rome readeth diuers homilies in their diuine seruice from thence vnder the name of Chrysostome Many sentences and propositions are brought thence vnder his name in the ordinarie gloses in the chaines of the explanations of the Gospels in the decrees of the Bistops of Roome in the Summaries of Diuinitie set forth by Diuines of great name as Sixtus Senensis himselfe a Papist giueth vs to vnderstand Why then should maister Iewell be blamed for alleaging that worke vnder Chrysostomes name when the Church of Roome by her example warranted him so to doe But yet hee will further make vs beléeue that the wordes doe not prooue that for which they are alleaged The wordes are these If l Chrysost in ope imperf hom 11. it be a dangerous matter to transferre holy vessels to priuate vses as Baltasar teacheth vs who drinking in the sacred cups was depriued of his kingdome and his life if then I say it be so dangerous to transferre to priuate vses these sanctified vessels in which is not the true body of Christ but a mysterie of his body is conteined c. Out of which wordes maister Iewell proueth yâ— in the sacred vessels there is not the true body of Christ as the Papistes dreame but onely a mysterie of his body The place is so plaine as nothing can be more plaine Now therefore what sayth the Answ to it Forsooth the authour meant these words of the vessels of the temple of Hierusalem which Nabuchodonosor tooke from thence and not of the vessels of our Christian Churches But what vessels I maruell were those in the temple of Hierusalem which conteined the mysterie of Christes body where did hee euer read or heare of any such Or if he can vnshamefastly face out such a matter how can he imagine that Chrysostome or the author whosoeuer would admonish his auditours that it was daungerous for them to abuse the vessels of the temple of Hierusalem which they neither had nor could haue to abuse Againe he saith not those holy vessels as pointing to the vessels of the temple but expresly these holy vessels vnderstanding them which he had then to vse Againe he saith not wherein was not but wherin is not the true body of Christ nor wherein was conteined but wherein is conteined the mysterie of his bodie All which being referred to the present time do plainly enough shew that hee spake of the vessels that then were present and therefore his wordes are a verie direct and substantiall proofe that in the vessels of Christian temples there is not the true body of Christ but onely a mysterie of his body Yea but there is mention of Baltazar there And what then Surely Baltasar is there brought in to teach vs as the authour speaketh Now what doth the example of Baltasar teach vs not to abuse the vessels of the temple of Hierusalem A senselesse conceite He teacheth vs not to abuse the vessels of our temples and Churches least offending as he did we be punished as he was For there is alwaies the same reason of the vse or abuse of holy thinges and particular examples are alwaies alleaged for confirmation and proofe of generall doctrines Surely the Answ was sodainly awaked out of his dreame when he conceiued this and set his handes to write before he was well aduised what he should write P. Spence Sect. 19. AS I haue dilated at large the meaning of Gelasius so I cannot but wonder at your repeating of him in this place so contrâ—â—ie to his meaning euen by your owne confession You woulde before haue Gelasius drift to be this that as in heauen Christ is in his two natures seuerall the godhead and the manhood so in the Sacrament with his body remaineth the bread thereby to haue hoth in heauen and here two seuerall natures Yet now
enough against a naked and bare collection from a point of doubtfull construction Which séeing they haue diuers of them béen alleaged by maister Fulke and others directly against the Answrers demaund and yet haue not receiued any tollerable answere it was but a scape of his wit to say that maister Fulke doth steale away from the state of the question and medleth not with it His other cauill out of the wordes of S. Luke that Christ before the sacrament said l Luc. 22. 17. he woulde drinke no more of the fruite of the vine till in his kindome and yet dranke after in the Sacrament whereby he would prooue the sacrament to be no wine was long agoe preuented by S. Austen who affirmeth that S. Luke m August de consen Euangeli lib. 3. ca. 1. according to his maner setteth downe the former mention of the cup by way of anticipation putting that before which is to be referred to somewhat following after and therfore vnderstandeth it of the cup of the new testament by and by after instituted and so reconcileth him to the other two Euangelistes Mathew and Marke But to helpe this argument the Answ is faine to varie from his good maisters of Rhemes For he expoundeth the kingdome of God to be after the resurrection but they vnderstand it n Rhem Annot Luc. 22. 17 of the celebration of the Sacrament of Christes bloud Whereof it followeth that Christ in the Sacrament dranke of the fruite of the vine as both Mathew and Marke set it downe and the auncient fathers doe expound it Let him go and be agréed with his fellowes before he vrge this argument againe P. Spence Sect. 32. IN the end you giue me councell how to behaue my selfe in these controuersies In all Christian charitie I thanke you and loue you for the same for you aduise me no worse then your selfe followe and in good faith I accept of it as proceeding from your great good will towards me and therefore againe and againe I thanke you And I will follow you in genere that is to haue care of my poore soule to feede it with the trueth of Gods word but expounded by his Catholique Church I must tell you plainly and therefore in specie in the particulars of the points of our beliefe I will not followe you You and I endeuour both to come to one resting place at night but in our daies iourney wee goe two sundrie waies I pray God send vs merily to meet in heauen Amen R. Abbot 32. MY councell M. Spence must stand for a witnesse against you at that day if you go on forward still to walke in the counsel of the vngodly In the meane time I againe aduise and counsell both you and your maister to cease to rebell fight against God or to say when he offereth himselfe vnto you we will none of thy waies I councell you indéede as you say to no other thing but that which I follow my selfe and I most humbly thank almightie God who hath giuen me his grace to follow the same and hath preserued me from that daunger wherein I haue béen oft falling away from him You will followe me you say in generall to haue a care to féed your soule with the trueth of Gods word Do so M. Spence doe so that is the foode of life that is the riuer of the water of life the heauenly Manna he that féedeth there shal surely finde life b August de pastor Feede there saith S. Austen that yee may feede safely and securely But you marre and poison this good foode with that which you adde You will feede your soule you say with the word of God but expounded by his Catholicke Church you meane the Church of Roome Which is as much as if you should say you wil not follow the word of God it selfe but that which it pleaseth the Church of Roome to make of the word of God Take héede of M. Spence Assure your selfe that though the Church of Roome doe maintaine c 2. Pet 2. ◠damnable heresies and d 1. Tim. 4. 1. doctrines of deuils contrarie to Gods word yet being wise as she is according to this worlde she will neuer expound the word of God against her selfe if it be in her to make the meaning of it When she expoundeth the Scriptures to make her selfe the Catholike Church and no such thing is to be found in the words of the scripture will you beléeue her in her owne cause It shal then be verified of you which Salomon saith e Prou. 1◠15. The foole will beleeue euerie thing Take the simplicitie of the word of God it self and be directed thereby f Prou. 8 9. The waies of God are plaine to him that will vnderstand God g Hiere in psal 8◠hath not written as Plato did that few should vnderstand but for the vnderstanding of all saith S. Hierome So that although there be depth enough in the word of God for the best learned to bestow his studie and labour in yet as Chrysostome and Austen teach vs h Chrysost in 2. Thess 2. August ep 3. Whatsoeuer things are necessarie they are manifest and i Aug. de doct Christ li. 2. c. 9. in those things which are manifestly set downe in the Scriptures are contained all things that pertaine to faith and conuersation of life Lay before you therefore those things which néed not the exposition of the Church of Roome When the scripture saith There is now no offering for sinne wil you take her exposition to say that there is When the scripture saith no man liuing shal be found iust in the sight of God shal she by her exposition make you beléeue that it is not so When the scripture saith Thou shalt not bow downe to or worship a carued or grauen image will you be perswaded by her expositions that you may I passe ouer the rest Iustly doe they deserue to be giuen ouer to errour and to be deluded with lies and lewd expositions which will not yéeld vnto God when he speaketh vnto them so plainly as néedeth no exposition It were worth the while to set downe héere a Catalogue of Romish expositions but that the conscience of you all that way appeareth sufficiently in this whole discourse You pray that we both going sundry wayes may méete in heauen But maister Spence it will not be in that way wherein you go Either you must say that there is no heauen or els that your way is not the way to heauen because the God of heauen hath gainsaid it God open your eyes that you may sée the right way that so we may ioyfully méete in heauen P. Spence Sect. 33. AS touching the escape of our Rhemistes in the account of our Ladies assumption The matter is verie sleight not tending any way to our saluation I meane to erre in that computation especially when they haue a The more impudēt they that hauing no certaine
hid vnder the ground and neuer seen as now being allowed of But the Church plaieth herein like a Lapidarie who by his long a The great skill of the Church of Roome to discerne those bookes to be canonicail which the Apostles and primatiue Church could not discerne to be so skill discerneth a true diamond from the counterfeit but the vertue he giueth not to it but that came of the first creation And so the Church by the illumination of the holie ghost is taught not to make scriptures nor to giue trueth to the books of the holy Ghost but to discerne which be the holie Ghosts books and which be not I aske you whether the Apocalyps and S. Iames Epistle besides other books of Scripture be not as Caluin and Beza against Luther confesse them to be Canonicall Scripture I am sure you will say they be Then whether were they b If they had not been receiued at the first they might not haue been receiued afterward at the first receiued of the whole Church for such or no I aske you further whether the Churches generall acceptation of them after due examination of them by the helpe of the holy ghost had made them any truer or better then they were before If not why then did not the Church receiue them generally at the first or why do you rather wrangle about it that all the world seeth was done in these bookes The cause why you would not haue the Church determine the canonicall Scriptures is because your priuate spirite being enemy to c That is to the wilful fansies of a few Romish prelates the general spirite and sentence of the whole Church you will rather seeme to preferre your owne iudgement then accept the worke of the holy ghost R. Abbot 34. AS touching the books of scripture Hierome testifieth thus of those bookes that we seclude from the canon a Hiero. in prolo Galeato They are not saith he in the canon they must be put amongst the Apocryphall writings And again b Idem praefat in libros solomo The Church readeth them but yet receiueth them not amongest canonicall Scriptures c Ruffin in expos symb apud Cypri Ruffinus that liued at the same time expresly witnesseth the same and that as he sayth out of the monuments of the Fathers So doth d Euseb eccle hist lib. 4. c 25. Eusebius out of Melito So e Athanas in synopsi Athanasius So f Epiphan de mensu ponderi Epiphanius So the g Concil Laodi ca. 59. councell of Laodicea And must we now in the end of the world beléeue the Roomish Lapidarie that these are Canonicall bookes Her obedient children may be so foolish as to beléeue her warrant herein but we know her héereby to be not a true Lapidarie but a false and presumptuous harlot The canonicall bookes that truely are such haue béen receiued for such from the beginning So doth S. Austen terme them h Augustin cont Cresco lib. 2. cap. 31. de bap con Dona. lib. ca. 3. canonem constitutum and confirmatum the canon appointed set downe and confirmed Whatsoeuer bookes were not then set downe deliuered and receiued for such they cannot now be warranted to be such If any man through simplicitie did afterwardes call in question any of those bookes as some did the Reuelation the Epistles to the Hebrewes and of S. Iames the Church did rightly correct their errour in that behalfe not newly approouing them for canonicall which were not so taken before but defending them to be canonicall as they had béen before receiued And therefore the world doth not sée that the Church of Christ did that then which the Synagogue of Roome presumeth now in that contrarie to the iudgement of that Church she taketh vpon her to make them canonicall which were not from the beginning deliuered to the Church for such Neither doe we in the canon of scriptures follow our own priuate spirite but the expresse testimonie and consent of the ancient Church As for his hypocriticall spéeches of the help and work of the holy Ghost they are but the same that the Moâ—tanistes the Marcionites the Valentinians and other olde heretickes did vse who when they taught against the holy ghost yet pretended the instinct and inspiration of the holy Ghost P. Spence Sect. 35. INdex Expurgatorius altereth no Doctours wordes but where it is certaine that heretickes haue corrupted or a T 〈…〉 tâ— say where the church of R 〈…〉 seeâ—â— any 〈◊〉 coÌ„trary â—o her faâ—â—e doctrine The Fathers speake like heretickes when they say any thing contrary to her learning where all the worlde knoweth their priuate opinions were amisse and erronious there it giueth a note thereof truly In later writers it noteth what is suspicious and to be taken heed of in forged bookes heretickes bookes and hereticall editions and hereticall prefaces censures and notes or hereticall commentaries it controlleth them and great b It is great charitie in the church of Râ—me to blot out as hereticall whatsoeuer is contrary to their damnable heresieâ— charitie so to do All which is good and therfore vniustly to be found fault with but of such whose backes being galled do winse at that booke set out with great iudgements to teach vs to beware of heretickes corruptions and traps R. Abbot 35. THis defence of the Index Expurgatorius is shamelesse The authours of it knew so much well inough and therefore would haue had it kept close but the prouidence of God hath to their reproach brought it to light It is not méete that the iudgements of learned men either old or new should be subiect to the fancies of a few wilful persons that they may dislike in them and put out what pleaseth them But welfare a childe that though his mother plaie the théefe and the harlot neuer so much yet will boldly stand in defence of her that she is an honest woman And indéed I maruell not that this dealing séemeth verie tollerable and lawfull with these men because I know that the corrupting and deprauing forging of bookes is a very speciall meanes and helpe for the vpholding and patronaging of the Roomish abhominations Falshood cannot be vpholden but by falshood and he that taketh a bad cause in hand must néeds vse bad meanes to colour and cloake his euill doing Thus a Francise Iunius in praefat indic Expurga Franciscus Iunius reporteth that being at Lyons in France in the yeare of our Lord 1559. and comming to the Correctour of Frelonius his print with whom he was familiarly acquainted the same Correctour shewed him a very faire print of Ambrose his workes Which when Iunius commended the Corrector told him that notwithstanding the fairenesse of it yet if he were to buy Ambrose he would rather buy it in any other copie theÌ„ in that The reason wherof he told him for that whereas they had printed the booke faithfully according to
an auncient and vndoubted copy two Franciscan Friars came by authoritie and cancelled many shéetes thereof some in part some wholly and caused them to print other in their stéed not agréeing to the true bookes to Frelonius his great losse both of time and charges The like dealing b Ibid. he noteth of TurriaÌ„ that vnshamefast Iesuit in a Gréeke edition of the Canons of the Apostles In a print of Chrysostomes workes by Stelsius at Paris they haue razed out a most notable and vnanswerable place c Oper. imperf in Mat. hom 49. testifying that in the time of Antichrist there can be no warrant of true Christianitie nor other refuge for Christians being desirous to know the truth of faith but only the scriptures of God that they which would know cannot otherwise know which is the true Church of Christ but onely by the scriptures that Christ knowing the confusion that should be in the last daies did will that Christians desiring to haue assurance of true faith should flee to nothing else but to the scriptures because if they looke vnto other things they shall stumble and perish not knowing which is the true Church and hereby they shall light into the abhomination of desolatioÌ„ which standeth in the holy places of the church This whole place they haue falsly and treacherously left out And why because they take it to haue bin put in by an Arian hereticke as d Bellarm. to 1 cont 1. lib. 4. cap. 11. Bellarmine saith But what wretchednesse is there in this pretence when as they haue left in stil those places which make for the Arians indéed haue only taken away this which was not for the Arians turne but serued to confound themselues in a matter of controuersie betwixt them and vs. Thus e See Doct. Rainolds confer with â—aâ—t cha â— diuiâ— 2. Manutius and Pamelius in their editions of Cyprian the one at Rome the other at Anwerpe haue notoriously falsified a place in his Treatise de vnitate ecclesiae And whereas Cyprian expresly auoucheth by the vniuersall consent of all approued copies that the rest of the Apostles were the same that Peter was endued with equall fellowship both of honour and of power they haue foisted in other words importing a supremacy giuen by Christ vnto Peter and so make him in one sentence with one breath to speake contrary to himselfe Which impudencie and unpietie of theirs is so much the greater for that against the common consent and credit of so many copies both written and printed they would presume to alter the text of Cyprian vpon the warrant of two or thrée such copies as they themselues euidently saw knew to be corrupted so corrupted that they were faine euen for shame to varie in some things from that reading which they found in theÌ„ Thus haue the Spanish censurers vsed Bertram also as hath bene before shewed nipping him paring him where they haue thought good that he may not séeme too strong against their fantasticall conceit of TransubstantiatioÌ„ Now we may not wonder that they who haue bene thus bold with the auncient Fathers should presume a great deale further with later writers And therefore it néedeth not that I stand here to shew how they haue maimed the writings and censures of f Index Expurgat in castigaâ— operum August Tertul Hierony passim Beatus Rhenanus Ludouicus Viues Erasmus and other famous learned men whersoeuer they haue with great aduisement and iudgemeÌ„t noted the corruptions abuses of the Roomish church either in matters of maners or of doctrine This is that godly charitable dealing which the Answ commendeth and thinketh to be a very Christian and necessary course But were he not too much bewitched with the loue of a harlot he would not be so easily brought to flatter her in such vnhonest and hatefull doings Hereby it appeareth what confidence and hold Papists haue in the writings of the Fathers and that the Fathers if they were now aliue in the church of Rome and should speake as they haue written should be condemned for heretickes and their bookes carried to the fire to be burned with them P. Spence Sect. 36. YOu chop in the end to the matter of iustification A verie large race to course in To be short we say Faith iustifieth but that faith which worketh by loue We yeeld with S. Paule Not to him that worketh that is not to him that worketh with the respect of the law or by his free-will without the faith of Christ and his grace as the Iewes and Gentiles But to him that beleeueth in him that iustifieth the vngodly c. Here you see he talketh of one that not only beleeueth God or that God is but in God which is to haue faith hope charitie And that we require in iustifying a Here we haue we say and we say but no prâ—ofe for that which they say and so they may say what they list We say Faith without workes is dead and yet being dead it is a true faith neuerthelesse We say this faith so quickened and formed with charitie doth iustifie that is maketh of wicked iust and withall we say that good workes done by him that is iustified or else they could not be good do iustifie that is as S. Iames saith they make faith perfect By Abrahams workes his faith was made perfect And not only before men as you would haue S. Iames to meane thereby to elude this cleare testimony for he telleth you as for only faith the diuels beleeue and tremble and hee saith faith to bee a ioynt-worker with workes in our iustification which is not by faith only but by workes and they do make a man more iust or increase our iustice They b An absurd contradiction they deserue it and yet it is â—â—eely â—iuen them â—f it be â—â—eely thâ—n it is not of desert deserue the reward though giuen them by Gods free mercie for Christes passions sake yet novv made their vvages and hyer by Gods ordinance and by the proportion and relation betvveene grace Sap. 3. 15. Eccl. 16. 2. Rom. 2. 6. and glorie We defie Pelagius that said vve might merit the first grace or remission of sinner yet vve say vvith S. Augustine that the kingdom of heauen is both gratuite or free because it is of grace purchased by Christs blood and yet vvithall saith he it is a thing deserued because it is due to workes vvhich vvorkes come of grace that vvas giuen freely by Christ We desire no better iudge of the true sense of Gods vvord in this point then S. Augustine himselfe to whom we appeale We say vvith S. Iohn Behold the lambe of God which taketh away the sinnes of the world We say vve must put off the old man and put on the new We say vve must be noua conspersio Azimi We say vve must be c Yet the Answers owne conscience doth tell him that he is not