Selected quad for the lemma: doctrine_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
doctrine_n	church_n	rome_n	transubstantiation_n	3,421	5	11.4318	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A16701	The apologie of the Romane Church deuided into three seuerall tractes whereof 1. The first, concerneth the antiquitie and continuance of the Catholike Romane religion ever since the Apostles time. 2. The second that the Protestantes religion was not so much as in being, at or before Luthers first appearing. 3. The thirde that Catholickes are no lesse loyall and dutifull to their soveraigne, then Protestantes. All which are vndertaken and proued by testimonies of the learned Protestantes themselues.	Anderton, Lawrence.; Anderton, James, fl. 1624, attributed name.	1604 (1604)	STC 3604; ESTC S119868	294,461	212

as defectiue in this behalfe 2. Secondly in that the Arrians had burned the originals of the Nicene Councell which to be true appeareth by Athanasius in epist ad omnes orthodoxos And Iulius in rescript ad Orientales alleageth in perticuler very many of the other Canons of the Nicene Councell which Protestants now reiecte for forged and among them one Canon concerning appeales to Rome 3 Lastly the Aphricans whom this matter most concerned were so far from charging the said Popes with Innouation or forgerie that S. Austine one of them calleth Zozimus the most blessed Pope Zozimus Aug. de gra Christi l. 2 c. 2 6. 7. 8. 17 epist 157 Concil Aphric in epist ad Bonifacium And like titles of reuerence and honour are giuen by the Aphricane Bishopes to Boniface and Celestinus Vide epistolam Aphricani concilij ad Bonifacium vide epist Aphric concil ad Celestinum and (d) Impertinent because that the Councell of Sardica not that hereticall conuenticle against Athanasius mentioned by Zozomen hist l. 3. c. 10. And which mr Whitaker mistaketh contra Dureū l. 7 p. 499 but that other Catholike councell mentioned by Dresserus in millenar 5. page 104 246. and by Carion in chronic p. 283 initio and by Zozomen l. 3 c. 11. wherat as witnesseth Theodoret hist l. 2. c. 7 and Carion in chronic page 282 post med Athanasius and many other of the Fathers of the Nicene Councell were present affirmeth can 7. before the times of Zozimus Boniface and Celestinus this very matter of appealing to Rome in so much as Caluine l. 4 institut c 7 sect 9. mencioneth this decree and thought that the Pope did not forge but by mistaking alleage this decree of Sardica as the decree of the Councell of Nice so cleare hereby it is that Zozimus Boniface and Celestinus were no Innouators impertinent 3 Thirdly Mr. Whitaker giueth example in Pope Siritius saying (e) Whitaker cont Duraeum l. 7. page 480 ante medium Siritius was the first that annexed perpetuall Chastitie to the Ministers of the word Whereto we answere First that Mr. Whitaker alleageth no proofe that Siritius was the first neither doth he or can he name any Catholicke writer of that time so reporting Secondly we alleadge most plainely to the contrarie how that S. Hierome who liued in the time of Damasus predecessor to Siritius saith thereof (f) Hierom. in Apolog. ad Pamach c. 3 and the same doctrine doth he affirme in c. 1 ad Titum If Married men like not this let them not be angry with me but with the holy scriptures with all Bishopes Priests and Deacons who know they cannot offer sacrifice if they vse the act of Marriage And this opinion was then not first begune but to the contrarie so vniuersall that Saint Hierome affirmeth it to be the generall Doctrine and practise of (g) Hierom contra Vigillant c. 1 saith Quid faciunt Orientis Ecclesiae quid Egipti sedis Apostolicae quae aut Virgines clericos accipiunt aut continentes aut si vxores habuerint mariti esse desinunt the Church of the East of Egipte and the Sea Apostolicke And in like manner was the Marriage of Priests long before these times so plainely impugned euen in the Greeke Church by (h) Epiphanius haer 59. after other plaine wordes had herof saith At dices mihi in quibusdā locis adhuc liberos gignere Presbiteros Diaconos Hipodiaconos at hoc non est iuxta Canonē c. So plainelye doth he acknowledge hereby a former Canon Epiphanius (i) Origen in numer hom 23 saith Certum est quia impeditur sacrificium indesinens ijs qui coniugalibus necessitatibus seruiunt vn de videtur mihi quod illius est solius offerre sacrificium indesinens qui indesinenti perpetuae se deuouerit castitati vi de Origen in Leuit. hom 4. l. 8. contra Celsum Origen and also euen by that misaplied (k) Misaplied for that many learned Protestants do vrge it in profe of Priestes marriage wheras it prooueth the contrarie example of Paphnutius (l) It doth appeare by Socrates hist l. 1. c. 8. ante med and Zozomen hist l. 1. c. 22 and by the Centurie writers Cent. 4. c. 9 col 656. line 44. and by mr Fulke against the Rhemish Testament in Mat. 8 sect 3. fol. 14 a. post med that Paphnutius though he thought that Priesthood did not dissolue marriage contracted before orders giuen yet he affirmed to the Nicene Councell that those who were made Priestes before they were married should not afterwards marry alleaging for this veterem Ecclesiae traditionem the auncient Tradition of the Church so plainely doth Paphnutius hereby acknowledge that this doctrine was then holden for the Churches auncient Doctrine that our learned aduersaries doubt not therefore to (m) So Ch●mnitius in his examen concil Trident. part 3. reprehendeth Hierom Ambrose and Origen page 50. a. ante med and Epiphanius p. 62. a. initio And Frigeuilleus Gauuius in his palma Christiana page 103 reprehendeth Socrates and Zozomen for their reporte of Paphnutius reprehend the saide Fathers and as Epiphanius and Paphnutius in their cited testimonies hereof do in plaine tearmes rest vpon the Churches Doctrine before their times so likewise the Fathers of the (n) Concil 2. Carth. can 2. saith Omnibus placet vt Episcopi Presbiteri Diaconi c. ab vxoribus se abstineant and for this reason there sett downe vt quod Apostoli docuerunt ipsa seruauit antiquitas nos custodiamus Carthage Councell doubt not in like manner to ground this point vpon Antiquitie and the Apostles Doctrine So euident hereby it is that Siritius in his foresaide Doctrine hereof brought in no Innouation or change 4 Fourthly Mr. Whitaker giueth example in Innocent the third saying (o) Whitaker l. 7 contr Duraeum page 480. circa med He that first inuented Transubstantiation was Innocent the third in the Laterane Councell Whereto we answere First that Mr. Whitaker barely affirmeth but proueth not this his assertion neither doth he alledge so much as any one author of those times charging this Pope Innocent or that Councel with any Innouation or change of Doctrine in this matter And we further say that Mr. Whitaker vrgeth this example how soeuer against his knowledg and learning yet most clearely against all euidence of truth for this Councell of Laterane was houlden Anno. 1215. (o) Whitaker l. 7 contr Duraeum page 480. circa med And as appeareth by the said Councell and further testimonie of (*) Crispinus in his booke of the estate of the Church page 345. fine Protestants there were present thereat the Patriarches of Hierusalem and Constantinople 70. Metropolitaines 400. Bishopes and 800. Conuentuall Priors Now that so many learned men of so many seuerall remote Nations of the CHRISTAN worlde as were here assembled should all of them agree

sacrament was vsed long before the time of Honorius the third So also it is as euident and confessed by Protestantes and namely by Mr. Foxe act mon. pag. 896. b. fine and after the aedition of Anno 1596. pag. 1276. a. line 14. that if this Honorius did not beginne the same the first beginning thereof is then so sarr from being found that we cannot saith Mr. Foxe finde it to come in by any other Add but now here-vnto the aunswerable testimonies of Austine in Psalm 98. of Ambrose de spiritu Sancto l. 3. c. 12. of Theodoret dial 2. of Chrisostome in 1. cor hom 24. of Basill de spiritu Sancto cap. 27. of Nazianzen in Epitaph Gorgoniae and of Dionisius Areopagita de Eccles Hierach c. 3. which are so plaine and agreeable with our externall adoration of Christ in the Sacrament that our aduersari● Chemnitius doth for such alleadge sondry of them against our aduersaries the sacramentaries in his examen Concil Trident part 2. p. 92. adoring the sacrament for God much more in so many other pointes of faith haue bene so brought and devulged into so many Christian Nations nere and remote and not once testified or remembred so much as by any one of the Churches enimies neither hereticall nor prophane were the Churches owne pastors her home enimies and strangers to her Religion all of them silent herein THAT CATHOLICKES ARE ABLE TO proue the contrary euen by Testimonie of the learned Protestants § 8 AND although the proofe of the ROMANE Churches supposed change of her religion lying on our aduersaries part and hitherto wanting might be matter in this behalfe sufficient to offer vnto your HIGHNES learned Iudgment yet will we our selues in surplusage exhibit futher demonstratiō of her not change in any needefull article of faith by manifest testimonie from our learned aduersaries First then it is heretofore fully proued by euident confession of the learned Protestants aswell in generall (a) This is fullie confessed heretofore Tract 1. Sect 1 paulo post initium and Mr. Fulke in his answere to a counterfaite Catholicke pag. 36. initio affirmeth also that the religion of the Papists came in and preuailed in the yeare of our Lord 607. as also concerning euery point of faith in perticuler (b) This is hertofore proued Tract 1. Sect. 1. in the margent at the letter d. that in the time of Gregorie the great Bishope of Rome the Romane Church professed our now Catholicke or as they terme it Popishe faith and that shee hath perseuered in profession thereof euer since that time is confessed likewise by our aduersaries and made so euident by all histories as that to vndertake further proofe thereof were tediousnes both (c) Confessed hertofore tract 1. sect 2. in the margent at the letter l. and also at this marke * And Mr. Fulke in his aunswere to a counterfaite Catholicke pag. 27. circa med speaking of Boniface the third who was Bishope of Rome the 2 yeare after the death of Gregorie the greate teste Anastasio l. de vitio Pontificum saith the Popes from Boniface the 3. were all blasphemous haeretickes Antichristes And he affirmeth the same in his confutation of Purgatorie pag. 344. post med And he likewise affirmeth Boniface the third to be Antichrist and that vnder him The Papistes religion preuailed in his foresaid aunswere to a Counterfaite Catholicke pag. 36. and in his confutation of Purgatorie pa. 194. paulo post med vide Whitakerum l. de Ecclesia pa. 260. fine 261. improper and needelesse This (d) This is manifestly affirmed and collected from the Ecclesiasticall writers of euery age and by our aduersaries the Centurie writers in euery of their seuerall Centuries Gregorie liued somwhat within the first 600. yeares after Christ so that hauing now hereby already proued the continued profession of the Romane Church in our now taught Catholicke faith for all these last thousand yeares The only difficultie and doubt least to be examined is whether that shee did make change of her faith during these other foresaid first 600 yeares next after Christ This being the maine pointe or issue of this present controuersie we will now first examine for how many hundreth yeares next after Christ the Church of Rome is confessed to haue perseuered with-out reuolt or chang in the faith first to her deliuered In discouery whereof whereas our writers do obiect how that Tertullian prouoked the heretickes of his time with the succession of the Romane Bishopes Mr. D. Fulke aunswering thereto affirmeth the reason thereof to be for that saith he (e) Mr. Fulke in his confutation of Purgatory p. 374. post med The Church of Rome reteined by succession vntill Tertullians dayes that faith which it did first receaue of the Apostles With whome agreeth herein Mr. D. Whitaker (f) Whitaker de Ecclesia pa. 278. post med speaking of certaine Apostolicke Churches emongst them of Rome by name saith vnde intelligimus cur ad illas Ecclesias prouocaret Tertullianus nimirum quia tum Doctrinā Apostolicam perpetua successione tenebant and Hierome (*) Zanchius de vera relig p. 148. circa med Zanchius and where one of our writers vrgeth (g) In Mr. Fulkes confutation of purga p. 372. ante med the succession of the Romane Bishopes by example of Ireneus Ciprian Tertullian Optatus Hierome Austine and Vincentius Lirinensis Mr. Fulke aunswereth thereto saying (h) Ibidem p. 373. paulo ante med that these men specially named the Church of Rome It was because the Church of Rome at that time as it was founded by the Apostles so it continued in the Doctrine of the Apostles And Mr. D. Rainoldes being prouoked in the same kinde acknowledgeth in like manner that (i) Mr. D. Rainoldes in his conferēce with M. Harte pa. 442. post med the succes●ion of the Romane Bishopes was a proofe of the true faith in the time of Austine Epiphanius Optatus Tertullian and Ireneus c. And the like acknowledgment or aunswere thereto is made by many other (k) Ridley in Mr. Foxe actes and Monuments p. 1359. b. circa med saith The Patriarche of Rome in the Apostles time longe after was a greate maintainer setter forth of Christs glory in the which aboue all other Countries and Regions was Preached the true ghospell the sacraments were most duly administred c. After the Emperors became Christians the ghospell there florished most And Mr. Iuell in his reply to M. Harding pa. 246. ante med saith Aswell S. Austine as also other godly fathers right lie yeelded reuerence to the sea of Rome c. For the puritie of religion which was there preserued a longe time without spo● And pag. 628. paulo post med he further saith the godly Fathers of those fore saide times sought to the Church of Rome which then for puritie in religion and constancie in the same was most famouse aboue all others learned Protestants only we will

conclude with Caluin who setteth downe our foresaide allegation saying of vs (l) Caluin institut l. 4. c. 2. sect 2. saith Magnifice illi quidem suam nobis Ecclesiam comendant allegant enim ●am apud se initio sana Doctrina sanguine Martirum bene fundatam perpetua Episcoporum successione conseruatam fuisse ne intercideret commemorant quanti hanc successionem fecerunt Ireneus Tertullianus Origenes Augustinus alij They in deede sett forth their Church to vs very gloriously c. They reporte out of Ireneus Tertullian Origen Augustine and others how highly they esteemed this succession Whereto he then aunswereth and giueth his like reason thereof saying (*) Cum extra controuersiam esset nihil a principio vsque ad illam aetatem mutatum fuisse in Doctrina sumebant quod omnibus nouis erroribus conficiendis sufficeret illos opugnare Doctrinam ab ipsis vsque Apostolis constanter vnanimi assensu retentam Caluin vbi supra l. 4 cap. 2. sect 3. Considering it was a matter out of all doubt that from the beginning euen vntill that time nothing was changed in Doctrine the fore-saide holy Doctors tooke in argument that which was sufficient for the ouerthrowing of all new errors to witte that they viz. the heretickes oppugned the Doctrine which euen from the very Apostles them selues had bene inuiolablie and with one consent reteined And in his booke of Institutions set forth in French he saith expresly that (m) Caluin in his institutions in French Printed at Gaeneua by Corradus Badius Anno. 1562. saith C'estoyt vne chose notoire sans doubte que depuis L'ange des Apostres iusques a lour temps il ne S'estoit fait nul Changement de Doctrine ny a Rome ●y aux autres villes It was a thing notoriouse without doubt that after the Apostles age vntill those fore-said times no change was made in Doctrine neither at Rome nor at other Citties So plainely do our learned aduersaries acknowledge that no change of faith was made by the Romane Church from the Apostles age vntill the times of Saint Austine Epiphanius Optatus c. Which was for foure hundreth and fortie yeares after Christ The Church of Rome being then thus cleared from all change of Doctrine at the least concerning any needfull article of faith which is the only point now pertinent and questionable during aswell the first 440. yeares after Christ as also the other thousand yeares now last past There remaineth only to be examined the interim of those 160. yeares which passed betweene the saide first 440. and the saide other last 1000. yeares in which meane time if no such supposed change was then doth it hereof vnauoidably follow that as the Church of Rome at first receaued and professed the right faith so likewise she doth yet still to this day continew and preserue the same The matter being as then euen from the testimonies of our learned aduersaries made thus issuable and plainely deduced to this certainety or narrow compasse of time we haue here often prouoked thē to giue example or instance of this their supposed change in the Romane Church during the saide meane time of 160. yeares In full discouery of which point we will breifly vrge three speciall reasons next ensuing As First seeing the scriptures do witnes to vs aswel that Christ hath placed in his Church (n) Ephes 4 11 12 13. Pastors and Doctors to continew to the consummation of Saints vntill we all meete in the vnitie of faith euen as our aduersaries do here-vpon expounde (o) Mr. Fulke against the Remish testament in Ephes 4. fol. 335. a. initio And Caluin institut Printed Geneuae 1550. c. 8. de fide sect 37 38. p. 233. 234. melancthon in loc Comun Printed 1561. c. de Ecclesia for euer as also that these (p) Esay 62 6. watchmen or (*) See the margi notes of the English Bible of Anno 1576. in Esay 62 6. Pastors (q) Esay 62 6. shall not be silent but shall as Mr. Fulke confesseth (r) Mr. Fulk in his aunswere to a counterfaite Catholicke pa. 11. initio alwaies resist all false opinion euen (s) Mr. Fulke ibidem pa. 92. ante medium with open reprehension which thing is also other-wise most euident in that by the Iudgment of all men (t) See this confessed hereafter tract 2. c. 1. sect 6. in the margent at the letter m. tract 1. c. 2. sect 13. in the margent at the letter r. Christes true Church must euer continew but the true Church she neither is nor can be if she faile so much in dutie as to suffer so many supposed errors to assaulte inuade her Children without some open defence and resistance to the contrarie Therefore so many and so important Doctrines as Merit of workes Praier for the dead Praier to Saints Free-will Reall presence Adoration of Christ in the sacrament Sacrifice of the Masse The vnmaried life of Priestes and so many other moe such like could neuer supposing they were errors haue in so small a compasse as of those saide 160. yeares bene brought to haue bene as then begunne and publickly professed by the Romane Church without greate difficultie of resistance and open reprehension of some one or other Godly man in some parte of the true Church The examples (u) These examples are yet extant and to be found in Ireneus in libro aduersus haereses And in Epiphanius and Augustine in their seuerall bookes against haeresies aswell of the times then precedent wherein were so contradicted but for some one or other seuerall opinion The Valētinians Tatianists Manichees Arianes c. As also of the ages then subsequent in which were in like sorte contradicted the seuerall (x) These examples are collected out of the Fathers of euery of those ages by the Protestant writers as namely by the Centurie writers in their fifte Chapter of euery seuerall Centurie See also Pantaleon in his Chronologie and Osiander in his seueral centuries other heresies of euery age and all yet to this day manifouldly recorded giue plentifull demonstration herein The like examples also of the very foresaide 160. yeares now in question afforde no lesse euidence hereof for euen as then were contradicted for their seuerall opinions to vs yet at this day discerned and knowne not only the (y) Aug. l. de haeresibus ad quod uultdeum haer 88. Pelagianes (z) Aug. ibidem haer 91. Nestorians (a) Aug. ibidem haer 69. Donatists (b) Sexta sinod Constantinop and see Centur. 6. col 311. line 37. Monothelites c. But also which argueth this matter most inuinciblie and clearely for vs and against our aduersaries sondry heretickes for theire then priuate and singular denying as protestants now do sondry points of our now professed Catholicke faith The vndoubted examples whereof are many and by our very aduersaries acknowledged So euen in or which is

of Christ 605. the professani company of Popery hath bene very visible and perspicuous Anno 607. at the furthest from Christ the papistes religion preuailed (m) Mr. Fulke ibid. pag 27. circa medium all Popes from Boniface the third being Antichristes And that since that time theire Church (n) Mr. Fulke ibid. pag. 16. paulo ante med fled into the Wildernes there to remaine a long season inuisible now Waldo who was many yeares before Wicliffe Husse begunne but (o) Act. mon. page 628 b. ante medium Anno 1218 so that betwixte him and the foresaid yeares of 607 were sixe hundreth and odd yeares for and during all which time no lesse then for the time since Waldo our aduersaries rest chargeable againe to answere for their churches continued administration of the Word and Sacraments wherat they stand wholly silent and confesse as before their defect therin being vnable to afford but any one exāple so much as of any one Kingdome Cittie or Village vpon the wholle face of the earth nor so much as of any one person liuing in the world professing their religion and celebrating their sacraments but during any one moment day or time within any one of all those said sixe hundreth yeares In further triall wherof to deale as now liberally with them and to admitt for true as well that Apocriphall and forged epistle printed lately at Basill written in behalfe of Priestes marriages in the name of Vtricke Bishope of Augusta vnto Pope Nicholas (p) For Pope Nicholas the first to whom this Vtricke should write was made Pope Anno. 858. enioying the same nyne yeeres two monthes xx daies dyed Anno. 867. as testifie Onuphrius in libro de Romanis Pontificibus vide Anastasiū Bibliothecarium de vitis Roman Pontific c. Printed Magnutiae Anno. 1602. pag. 305 fine 328. initio And Pantaleon in cronog p. 70 wheras Vtricke was not made Bishope of Augusta till after the death of Pope Nicholas viz. Anno. 924 Vide Vrspergensem in chronic Chitreum in Chronic. Pantaleon in chronic page 75. and continuing Bishope 50. yeares dyed Anno. 973. Beuther l. Fastorum page 209. And see Pantaleon in Chronograph page 75. and Osiander in epitom histor eccles cent 9. 10. 11. 12. c. page 99. fine 100. ante medium sundry yeares either before that Vtricke was borne or els after that Pope Nicholas was dead as also that other though perhaps more auncient yet no lesse forged (q) It appeareth by the booke of Pope Adrian vnto Charles which booke is extant tom 3. Concil and in many thinges long since specially cited by Iuo and purposely written in confutation of that other booke vnder Charles his name that the same was then forged by some hereticall enimie against Images and lying booke written against images (*) Caluin in institut l. 1. c. 11. sect 14. Insinuateth it to be forged about Charelemaines time saying extat refutatorius liber sub Caroli magni nomine quē ex dictione colligere licet eodem fuisse tempore compositum Vnder the name of Carolus Magnus who in deed was not onely an extreme enemie (r) Ioanas Aurelianensis who liued in those times affirmeth l. 1. pro imaginibus that Claudius Taurinensis who impugned images durst neuer publish his doctrine therof during the life of Carolus magnus And Paulus Aemilius l. 2. hist Franciae such that Carolus magnus sent 12. Bishops vnto a Councell holden at Rome by Pope Stephan●● in confutation of the error of the Greekes against images Hereof also see the Centurie writers cent 8. c. 9. col 570. And Mr. Cowper late Bishope of Lincoln in his Chronic. fol. 174. b. circa med repo●teth of certaine Bishops sent by Adrian to Charles who held a Councell in Fraunce against the condemnation of images c. to all those that impugned Images but was also as the learned Protestants (s) Hereof see Luc. Osiander in epitom hist eccles cent 8. pag. 101. circa med and Mr. Cowpers Chronic fol. 173. a. post med 175. b. paulo ante med Foxe in Apoc. page 436. paulo post med And Crispinus in his booke of the estate of the Church page 221. paulo post med 226. initio circa med And Hospinianus in epistola dedicatoria hist sacramentar circa med saith Imperator Carolus magnus non solum publicis edictis mandauit vt ceremoniae ritus itemque Missa latina Rom. eccles aliaque decreta placita instituta Romani Pontificis per totum imperium obseruarentur sed ipsemet etiam carceribus ac varijs suppliciorum generibus ad hoc ipsum cogebat ecclesias was this man then like to impugne the Church of Rome in her doctrine of Images confesse wholly denoted to the Romane Church And to admit likewise the booke written of the Sacrament and set forth lately not without great (¶) In so much that Pantaleon in his chronogra pag. 65. mencioning Bertram and his other writings forbeareth yet to mencion this booke or to charge him with this pretended opinion suspition by Oecolampadius vnder Bertrams name to be in deed that aunciēt booke which Bertrā is mencioned to haue written de Corpore Sanguine D●mini to King Charles the balde and that also this present booke were not doubtfull (t) This booke is so perplexedly and doubfullye penned and vseth the wordes figure spirituall misterie with such qualifications and so fully also withall affirmeth the presence of Christs Body vnder the veile or couerture of bred that it affordeth no plaine sense against the Reall presence but plaine and direct against the Reall presence which thing the Centurie writers vtterly denie (v) Centur. 9. c. 4. col 212. It is said Transubstātiationis semina habet Bertramus In so much also as our auncient Catholicke writers nearer to those times doubteth not to honour Bertram (x) Hospinianus in hist sacramentaria l. 4. page 317. paulo ante med mencioneth this at large for a holy Martir of their Church and Illiricus accordingly for beareth to name him in his (¶) Illiricus in Catall test ver printed Basiliae Anno 1556. Catalog of Protestant witnesses And to admit lastly the exāple of Berengarius Archdeacon of Angiers denying Transubstantiation and that he had not as he after did (y) Act. mon. pag. 13. a recanted that his opinion and had also bene free from all those other confessed errors wherwith Oecolampadius and other Protestant writers charge him (*) Oecolampadius in libro epistolarum Oecolampadij Suinglij l. 3. page 710. fine saith Berengarius nonnulla affirmabat aduersus Coniugiū Baptismum paruulorum and page 711. deinde etiam Berengarius parum candidè incessisse deprehenditur and page 712. initio Damnata est Berengarij opinio nimirum sacerdotio parum Christiano minus tribuens And see Papir Masson in Annalibus Francorum l. 3. in Hugone Roberto where it is said that

say that euen common vnderstanding argueth this inuincible from the very nature of the Church for we must needes affirme of the Church vnder Persecution that either she doth in some sorte or other make profession of her faith and also openly refraine the externall communion of all Idolatry false doctrine and sacraments or els that she doth not professe and refraine as beforesaid if the latter then as appeareth most euidently by the premisses (v) See heretofore tract 2. c. 2. sect 1. she is not the true Church if the first then is she thereby made knowne and visible for besides her foresaid profession consisting in administration of the Word and Sacraments and impugning of errors which being done though neuer so priuately is impossible (¶) Humfred in Iesuitismi part 2. rat 3. page 241. initio saith hereof Dum Ministri docent alij discunt illi Sacramenta administrant hij Communicant omne Deum inuocant fidem suam profitentur qui ista non videt talpa est caecior c. to be in so many countries kept secret for any smaller time much lesse for so many ages together her onely foresaid open refraining or recusancie wherto she is by the iudgment of Protestants (x) That Protestantes thinke them selues bound to auoide the open profession of our Catholicke faith and communion of our Sacraments is made more thē euident by their recusancie to be so much as present only at our seruice whereof more is s●ide hereafter tract 3. sect 1. in the margent at the letter c. no lesse in dutie bound lieth euermore open to be discerned and by how much the persecution is more grecuous so much the lesse can this recusancie be kept secret or vnespied as appeareth most plainly by that small resemblance had therof in the example (y) For if during but the last 20. yeeres we of this one nation in comparison but few could not so escape the mileder search of Protestant Magistrates but that by our onely recusancie we were daily discerned could thē all Christians supposed to be dispersed through out so many nations of the world escape for so many hundreth yeeres togither that inquisition of our Church which Protestants affirme to haue bene vniuersall and farre more greeuouse onely of our owne times and nation A CONFVTATION OF THOSE WHO AN swere that their Churches administration of the word and Sacraments continued during all those seuerall ag●s in being and also knowne and that as now through the iniurie of later times no testimony or notice therof is to vs at this day remaining SECT 9. IF now any of our aduersaries doe disclaime in vrging as before the foresaid example of Helias and in the foresaide opinion of affirminge their Ch●rch to haue bene for so many ages in being but yet vnknown will now in steed therof lastly say which is all that can be imagined to be left for them vnsaid that their Churches Pastors and Doctors their impugning of errors their administration of the word and sacraments were in euery of those foresaide ages knowne and visible to the worlde though now sithence all testimonie and record thereof is through the late violence of the Pope and his clergie vtterly suppressed and made awaie the idle vanitie of this conceipt is many waies discouerable As 1 First in that it is but a meare imagination whereof is neither testimonie nor proofe 2 Secondly in that all proofe and experience is most cleerely and directly to the contrarie as appeareth by example of Husse and Wicliffe whose (¶) Of the writinges of Husse and Wicliffe yet extant and printed at Noriberg See Iunius his Animaduersiones ad controuersiam quintam c. de membris Ecclesiae militātis quam Bellarminus exarauit c. l. 1. page 14. circa med And Illiricus in Catallog testium veritatis page 847. 850. prope finem maketh like mencion of their writings yet extant And mr Foxe act mon. printed 1596 mencioneth W●cliffes writinges page 428. a. lin 35 and so likewise doth Crispinus in his treatise of the estate of the Church page 419. initio And Mr. Fulk saith Nondum interierunt B●rtrami Valdi Ioannis a Gādauo Wicleui Hussi plena pietatis ac Christianae doctrinae monumēta Fulke contra Stapletonū de successione ecles pag. 308. initio and ibid. pa. 349 initio he saith scripta W●cleu● Bertrami Hussi c. extant vide page 320. writinges are yet extant also to our aduersaries by like example of their other foresaid aledged epistle of Vlrike in defence of Priests marriage of Charlemaines booke against images and of Bertrames booke concerninge the Sacrament in like maner by the decrees of our Catholicke Councells daily condemning and reciting all such arising opinions as were cōtrary to the same likewise by the many and ample now extant volumes of our Catholicke writers in euery age reciting in like maner and at large confuting all appearing Doctrines contrarie to the Roman Church Lastly as Mr. Whitaker confesseth by our eclesiasticall (*) Mr. Whittaker contra Duraeum l. 7. page 469. prope initium obseruing for true that all opinions contrarie to the Romane Church are mēcioned by our historiographers and being enforced for the vpholding of the Protestāts Church to make claime almost to all such as in any sort resisted the Pope whereof see heretofore tract 2. c. 2. sect 2. saith deinde post Apostasia● inuectam tirannidem Antichristi constitutam nullus vnquam historiam scripsit qui non ecclesiae nostrae doctrinam mores instituta semitia aduersarios commemoret ita vestris historijs nostrae Ecclesiae memoria viget qui Pontificij regnires narrare conati sunt ij nostrae ecclesiae testes sunt c. historiographers of euery age who make this the very argument of their writing in so much that nothing is as now better knowne to vs then that which the Church of Rome hath heretofore impugned and many an hereticke is hereby likewise m●de noted and infamouse to all suceeding age● whose better obscuritie would otherwise haue beene buried in forgetfulnes And that all this is most true is yet furthermore so euident that our verie aduersaries them sel●es do from hence take notice and in there owne writinges (z) This is at large performed and set downe by the Diuines of Magdeburg in their seuerall Centuries by Pantaleon in his Chronographia by Luc. Osiander in his epitom eccles hist and by Illiricus in his hooke entituled Catallogus testium veritatis qui ante nostram aetatem reclamarunt Papae And see further hereof Mr. Whitaker contra Duraeum page 276. initio 469. ante medium make mention of the daily opinions cond●mned in euery age by the Church of Rome of which opinones certaine also which maketh this point most euident were often times euen some one or other speciall Doctrine (*) Besides the foresaid examples of seuerall doctrines of the Protestants reported and condemned in Waldo Berrengarius Wicliffe and Husse See

further affirmed by D. Fulke in the tower disput with Edm. Camp the 2. daies cōf●rence And ●lso by the confessions of Belgia in the Harmonie of confessions p●g 321. and by the conf●ssion of H●luetia ibidem pag. 306. And by the conf●ssion of Saxonie ibidem pag. 324. and 325. 473. in so much as the Divines of Witenberge in Colloquio Badensi apud Osiandrum in epitom c. cētur 16. pag. 1064. ante med say Ecclesiam inde ab ascēsione vsque ad hac tempora nunquā interruptam sed perpetua su●cessione in terris per mansisse firmiter credimus And ibidem pag. 1065. p●st med It is said● Contra omnes furores Satanae Ecclesia vera in terris vsque ad adventum Christi ad extremum iudicium est mansura all opinions must evermore continue without fa●ling or ceassing to be not so much as for any one moment of time that the more sobe● and learned Protestants whom headstrong and inconsiderate zeale hath not altogether b●inded do therefore in preventiō thereof and for preservation of themselues make in these straits our Catholike Church as it were their (s) Numeri 35 11. Cittie of refuge acknowledging to that end that the true Church imediately before Luthers time had it being in our Catholicke Church that accordingly like as Luther himselfe before his preaching against the Pope was an (t) S●e●dan lib. 1. initio Augustine Fre●r and as himselfe saith (u) Luther in his Commentarie vpon the Epistle to the Galathians Englished fol. 35. b. circa m●di●m kepte chastitie pouertie and obedi●nce was onely giuen to fasting watching praying saying of Masse and such like and (x) Luther ibidem fol. 35. a. circa medium ho●o●ed the Pope of meere cōsciēce c. was so therby most vndoubtedly a professed mēber of our Catholike or as they te me it popish Church So likewise vpon his pretended reformati●n or preaching afterwards against the Pope he did not say they thereby (y) M. D. Couel in his defence of M. Hooker Art 11. pag. 73. post med sayeth As it is strange for any man to deny them of Rome to be of the Church S. I cānot but wōder that they of Rome will aske where our Church was before Luther as if any were of opiniō that Luther did erect a n●we Church c. And see the like saying in M Hooker in his Ecclesiasticall ●olicie lib. 3. pag. 129. post med erect a new Church thē befo●e not in being for that were most directly against themselues and therefore d● n●t depa●t from the Church he wa● of be●ore but continued still a membe● thereof whi h th ng both in H●●k● and M. D Cou● speaking the●eof doe verye plainely (z) M. Hooker lib. 3. pag. 130. and M. D. Couel in his defence of M. Hooker pag. 68. say Wee gladly acknowledge them of Rome to bee of the familie of Iesus Christ therefore we hope that to reforme our selues is not to sever our selves f●ō●he Church we were before n the Chur h wee were and are so still as also vvee say that they of Rome notw●thstāding their manifo d def ct are to bee helde a parte of the house of God a lymme of the visible Church of Christ acknowledge to the great dislike of the ( ) In the Christian lett●r of certain English P●ot●st●nts vnto that rev●●ēd man M R Hooker pag. 1● 19. they doe reproue at large M. Hook for this opiniō of not severing thēselues f●ō the Church they were of b●fore Purit●ins As also M. Bunm● prosecuteth the same more at large affirming therefore (b) M B●nny in his treati●e tending to Pacification pag. ●0● Paulo post Medium That of departing f●● in the Church there ought to be ●o qu●stion at all amon●est vs (c) Ibidem pag. 113. post m●dium wee are saith he no severall Church from them nor they f●o● vs therf re there is no departing at all out of the Church f r a●y to depar● from them to vs nor from vs ●o them all the difference betweene vs is concerning the truer members whether we or th●y may b● f●und more w●r●hie of that accompt as f r th● other we all●w no su h question in so much as hee doubteth n●t to say (d) Ibidem p●g 109. circa medium It wa● evill done of them who f●rst v●ged ●uch a ●eparati●● cōfess●ng further our g eat (e) Ibidem pag. 92 circa medium he saithe of his seperation our aduersaries see themselues to h●● advantage if they can winne vs to acknowledge it advantag giuen thereby whi●h our advantage he afterw rds very pla●nel● to this purpose expresseth to be (f) Ibidem pag. 96. c●rca m●dium for that saith he it is great pr●babilitie wi●h thē that 〈◊〉 we make ou s l●es a swerable ●or to find out a distinct and s uerall Chur●h from them which continued from ●he Apo l s ●g● t● this p●e●n● ●lso that ●ele we must acknowledge that our Church is str●g vpon late or since theirs And hēce it commeth that M. H●ler and M. D. Couel do (g) M. Hooker in his Ecclesiasticall Policie l. 3. sect 1. p●g 130. ante medium l. 5. pag. 188. initi● and M. D. Couel in his defence of M. Hooker pag. 68. acknowl●●g● the Church of Rome t● be● of the sami●ie o● I●sus Ch●●st a pa●te f the h●use of God a Lymme of ●h● vi●●bl● Church of Christ that M. D. Bar● s●ith (h) In his ormer sermons a●d two questions c. serm 3. pag. 448. fine the learnedder writ●rs acknowle●ge the Chu●ch of Rome to bee th● Church of God that M. D S●me saith (i) M. D. Some in his defence against M. Penrie c cap. 23. fine pag. 182. initio in the iudgement o● all learned men all reformed Church s there is in Popery a Chu●ch that another late Englishe Protestant wryter sayth (*) See the discourse vpō the meanes of w●l governing c. against Nicholas Matchiuell Printed at London 1602. pag. 80. post med the Catholicke and r formed make not two but one same r ligion (⁋) Ibidē pag. 83 Paulo post med 85. prope finem agreeing in all principall points ●f rel●gion ●ecessarie for our saluatio● that also George Cass●l●r though disliking (k) Cass●der in libro de offic●o Pij viri c. pag. 14. ante medium 15. initio the Pope and a knowledged for (¶) Dauid Pareus in his booke de Symbolis Sacramentatibus c. in praefat ante medium saith C ssader ●rditius scriptor c. a learned writer saith (l) Cassander ibidem pag. 14. post medium and in defence of his opinion h●e alledgeth Luther ibid. pag. 14. fine pag. 21 22. the Ch●r●h of Rome is to bee reuerenced as bei●g the true Church and Templ● of God and that a late d sguised French Protestant writer affirmeth (m) Examen Pacifique de la doctrine de

accordingly the most auncient Fathers namely (*) Hereof see Abraham Scultetus in medulla theologiae patrum pag. 369 post med 304 post med 466. fine 151 paulo ante med 105 circa medium 98 circa med 48 prope initium fine 66 fine 73 initio 40 ante med and see the centurie writers cent 2 c. 4 col 58 line 30 col 59 line 11. cent 3 c. 4. col 77 78 col 48 line 15. Ciprian Theophilus Tertulian Origen Clemens Alexandrinus Iustine Ireneus Athenagoras Tatianus c. erred therein 6 Sixtly as concerning freewill merite of workes Mr. D. Humfrie saith (q) Humfreid Iesuitismi pa●t 2 pag. 530 ante med And concerning the confessed doctrine of Me ite of W●rkes in Clemens Alexandrinus Theophilus Cypr. Iustine Martir c. See Abraham Scult●tus vbi supra pag. 48. ante med 122 post med 151 post med And the centurie writers cent 2. c. 4 cent 3 c. 4. it may not be denyed but that Iereneus Cl●menes and oth●r● quos vocant Apostolicos called Apostolicall in respect of the time in which they liued haue in their writing● the opinions of freewill● and of meritt of wookes 7 Seuenthly concerning freewill meritts of workes inuocation of Saints and such other like The Lord Archbishope of Canturbury discourcing of (r) Mr. Whitguift in his defence c. against the reply of Carthwrite pag. 472 fine 473 initio Doctrine taught in any age ●ine the Apostles time affirmeth without any other exception either of age or Father that to vse his owne wordes (s) Mr. Whitguifte vbi supra pag. 473 paulo post initium and ●e Mr. Louel in his examination c. pag. 120. almost all the Bishopes and learned writers of the Greek● Church and Lattin also f●r the moste parte were spotted w●●h Doctrine of freewill of merite of inuocation of Saintes and such l●ke 8 Eightly concerning Baptisme that the most auncient Fathers who suc●eeded next to the Apostles schollers namely Iustine Cl●ment c. (2) Centur. 2. c. 4. col 47. line 43. and in Centur 3. c. 4. col 82. line 55. it is saide Affirmare audet Ciprianus quod persona Baptizans Spiritum sanctum conferat Baptizatum intus sanctificet thought regeneration not to be signified but wrought by Baptisme and the word vnto which two ioyned t gether they attribut efficacie that is to say remission of sinnes that also (3) Cent. 3 cap. 6. col 125 line 16. Origen Tertulian and Cipriane mencion how that the Baptized persones were accustomed to be signed with the signe of the Crosse That there were likewise then vsed in Baptisme sundry other Ceremonies as (4) cent col 124. line 53 col 126 line 20. Abrenunciati● (5) cent 3. col 125. line 1 124 line 57 Three sould immertio (6) centur 3. col 125 line 9. vncton c. that (7) Soe saith Carthwrite in Mr. Whitguifts defence c. p. 522 fine And Bullenger in his decades in English decad 5. serm 8. pag. 1049. a. circa med Austine was of minde that Children could not be saued without Baptisme that (8) Musculus ho. comun de Baptismo pag. 308. post med Austine and many Fathers were of the same opinion In so much that as Caluin confesseth the Fathers hereupon doubted not (9) Caluin institut lib. 4 c. 1 sect 20. almost from the very beginning of the Church to vse the Baptisme of laye persons in daunger of death 9 Ninthly concering Confe●sion Absolution Penance and satisfaction that euen (10) cent 3. cap. 6. col 127. line 28. and see the wordes alledged hereafter tract 2. sect 7. in the margent at the letter c. neerest the end in those firster times of Ciprian and Tertulian was vsed priuate Confession euen of thoughtes and lesser sinnes and that the same was (11) vide ibidem then commaunded and thought necessarie that also as then Penance (12) cent 3. col 127 line 40 or satisfaction was enioyned according to the offence that the same Fathers (13) Whittaker contra Camp rat 5 pag. 78 and see him also alledged in Mr. Fulkes defence of the English transl●tions c. 13 pag. 368 ante medium though by such their externall discipline of life to paie the paines due for sinnes and to satisfie Gods Iustice That (14) Whitaker in resp ad Camp rat 5 pag. 78 paulo ante medium not Ciprian only but almost all the most holy Fathers of that time were in that error and that the Priest when Confession was as before made and Penance enioyned (15) Cent. 3. col 129. l. 77. did afterwardes absolue the Penitent euen (16) Vide ibid. And see this ceremonie of imposing the Preists hand in absolution mentioned by Cyprian in serm de lapsis paulo ante med l. 3. ep 17. 18 Concil 4. Carthag Can. 76. 78 Chrisost in Ioh. 20. hom 85 fine with the now like vsed Ceremony of imposing his hand 10 Tenthly concerning the Primacie of Peter and the Romane sea our aduersaries reprehend sundry of the Fathers for their af●●rming the Church to be builded vpon Peter namely (17) cent 4 col 1250 line 2. S. Hierome (18) cent 4. col 555 line 30 Hillary (19) Cent. 4 col 558 line 54 Nazianzen (20) Cent. 3 col 84 line 37 Tertuliā (21) Cent. 4 col 84 line 59. Ciprian (22) Cent. 3. col 85 line 3. Origen and in generall (23) Caluin institut l. 4 c. 6. sect 6 saith In Petro fundatam esse ecclesiam quia dictum sit super hanc petram c. At nonnulli ex Patribus sic exposuerunt sed recl●mat tota scriptura c. And Daneus in respons ad Bellarmini disput part 1 pag. 277 post med saith Patres pessime de Petri persona sunt interpretati c. many Fathers reprouing also others for their entitling Peter (24) Cent. 4 col 556 line 17. the head of the Apostles (25) ibidem col 1074 l. 16 the Bishope of B●sh●p●s in so m●ch that whereas the Fathers doubted not to celebrate publickly a yearely festiuall (26) Concil 2 Turonense 2 can 16 saith sunt etiam qui in festiuitate Cathedr● domini Petri Apostoli c. And Austine serm 15 de Sanctis saith Institutio solemnitatis hodiernae a Senioribus nostris cathedrae nomen accepit c. recte ergo ecclesiae natalem sed●● illius colunt quam Apostolus pro ecclesiarum salut suscepit dicente Domino tues Petrus c. ideo digne fundamentum hoc ecclesia colit and see farther mention hereof in Beda in martirologio day in honour of Peters sea which respect so had the●eto is more then we finde had to any other sea of any o●her Apostle Daneus answering hereunto ●ffirmeth the Fathers assertiō hereof to be (27) Danaeus in resp

writinge and certaine by Tradition with whom agreeth S. Basill saying (5) Basil de Spir. Sanct. cap. 27. some thing we haue from scripture other things from the Apostles Tradition c. both which hath like force vnto Christian Religion Mr. D. Rainoldes answering to these foresaid sayings of Basill and Chrisostome saith (6) D. Rainoldes in his Conclusions annexed to his conference the 1. conclusion pag. 689. I take not vpon me to controule them but let the Church Iudge if they considered with aduice enough c. Whereunto might be added the like confessed (7) Where Eusebius l. 1 demonstr Euang. c. 8 is obiected to say that the Apostles published their doctrine Partly by writing partly without writing as it were by a certaine vnwritten law Mr. Whittaker de sacra scriptura pag. 668 fine saith therto I answere that this testimonie is plaine enough but in no sorte to be receaued because it is against the Scriptures testimonie from Eusebius And thus much breifly concerning the Fathers of the Greeke Church Now as concerning the like confessed Doctrine in the Fathers of the LATTIN Church to avoide tediousnes S. Austine only as being most (*) Gomarus in speculo verae ecclesiae c. pag. 96 ante mediu saith Augustinus Patrum omnium communi sententia purissimus habetur approued by our aduersaries shall serue for all who labouring to proue that those who are Baptized by heretickes shoulde not be Rebaptized saith (8) Aug. de Bap. contra Don. l. 5. c. 23 the Apostles commaunded nothinge hereof but that custome which was opposed herein against Ciprian is to be beleeued to proceede from their Tradition as many things be which the wholle Church houldeth and are therefore well beleeued to be commaunded of the Apostles although they bee not written Wherein and (9) See the like saying in Austine epist 118 ad Ianuarium other his like sayings his meaning is so euident and confessed that Mr. Carthwright speaking thereof sayth (10) See Mr. Carthwrite in mr Whitgifts defence c. p. 103 ante med to allowe St. Austines saying is to bring● in Poperie againe and that (11) See Mr. Carthwrites wordes alleaged vbi supra if S. Austines Iudgement be a good Iudgment then there be some things commaunded of God which are not in the scriptures and there-upon no sufficient Doctrine conteined in the scriptures Add but now hereunto that (12) See Chemnitius examen part 1. pag. 87. 89 90. Chemnitius reporteth for their like testimonie of vnwritten Traditions Clemens Alexandrinus Origen Epiphanius Ambrose Hierome Maximus Theophilus Basill Damascene c. That M. Fulke (13) See mr Fulke against Purgatory pa. 362 ante med 303 397 and against Martiall pag. 170. 178. and against Bristowes motiues p. 35 36. also confesseth as much of Chrisostom● Tertulian Ciprian Augustine Hierome c. that lastly Mr. Whitaker (14) See master Whitaker de sacra scriptura pag. 678. 681. 683. 685. 690. 695. 696. 670 668. acknowledgeth the like of Chrisostome Epiphanius Tertulian Ciprian Augustine Innocentius Leo Basill Eusebius Damascene c. Now as concerning Ceremonies Mr. Calfehill to omitte others affirmeth that (15) Hereof see Mr. Fulkes reioinder to Martialls Replie printed 1580. pa. 131 fine 132 initio the Fathers declined all from the simplicitie of the Gospell in ceremonies 13 Thirtenthly it is confessed yet further in generall concerning Dionisius Artopagitta and Hermes who are houlden most auncient Apostolike (¶) Of Dionisius mention is made act 17 34. and of Hermes rom 16 14. namely that Dionisius in his fore-saide writinges which were aboue a thousand yeares since as D. Humfrie (⁋) Humfreid in Iesuitismi part 2. rat 5 pag. 513 fine 514 initio saith Hunc Arcopagitam Suidas Michaell Singelus Gregorius Turonensis alij Pauli auditorem credunt fuisse illum scriptorem caelestis et ecclesiasticae Hierarchiae And see before Sect 3. n. 4. lit .o. confesseth publickely extant and alleadged vnder his name doth casually and obiter amonge other thinges make mention ouer and besides the foresaide Doctrine of praier for the dead (t) Hamelmanus de traditionibus apostolicis col 707 line 27 col 736 line 56 and master Whitaker de sacra scriptura pag. 655 ante med of Apostolicke vnwritten Traditions of (u) Hamelmanus vbi supra col 707. l. 4 col 732 l. 51 Chrisme (x) Hamelmanus vbi supra col 707. l. 49 col 743 l. 4 Consecration of Moncks (y) Humfreid in Iesuitismi par 2 pag. 519 circamed ●nd Luther tom 2 Witeberg Anno 1562 de captiu Babil fol. 84. b. ante med Sixe of our Sacraments that the booke of Hermes entituled Pastor affordeth in like manner testimonie or grounde worke of (z) Abraham Scultetus in medulla theolog c. pag. 467 post med freewill and monasticall solitude of (a) Hamelmanus de trad apost col 252 fine col 253 initio col 254 line 38 and Abraham Scultetus vbi supra pag. 467 post med Pu●gatorie and praier for the dead of (b) Hamelmanus vbi supra col 253 l. 54 col 254 l. 49 Merite and Iustification of workes of Professed Chastitie (c) Hamelmanus vbi supra col 251 line 48 col 254 l. 30 in ministers of (d) Hamelmanus vbi supra col 254 l. 36 Fasting from certaine meates of (e) ibidem col 253 line 46 the Innocent parties remainnig vnmaried in case of adultrie of (f) Chemnitius examen concil Trident. part pag. 127 a prope finem workes of superogation and of (g) Hamelmanus vbi supra col 254 l. 53 saith Furtigitur bonum papismi initium impurus ille liber pastoris vel Heremitis Poperie And though in the primatiue Church some question (h) Vide Eusebium hist l. 3 ● 3 prope finem was made of this booke as whether it were Canonicall scripture or not many Fathers (i) It was thought to be sacred and for such alleaged by Origen lib. 10 in epist ad Rom. Tertulian l. de oratione Clemens Alex. l. 6 stromat Athanasius in libro de decretis Nicen Synod Cassianus collat 13. c. 12 and by Ireneus l. 4 c. 37. thinking that it was yet is it confessed to haue ben receaued at the least for (k) Hamelmanus vbi supra col 254 line 24 saith illum pro ecclesiastico habuerunt quidem Patr●s and col 730 line 25 he saith Hermetis libellus qui dicitur Pastor est olim aliquando in numerum ecclesiasticorum librorum relatus In so much as Eusebius hist l. 3 c. 3. Ruffinus in Simbolum Hierom in catul do commēd this booke for profitable and so Mr. Whitaker de sacra scriptura p. 93 fine confesseth of Hierome Ecclesiasticall and the authoritie thereof to haue bene so many ages since specially alleadged (l) Hamelmanus vbi supra col 253 line 10 saith

skill and experience foreseeth the comming of the said effects to which kinde the foresaide Doctrines of Re ll Presence and Sacrifice cannot in any so●te be reduced by reason they cannot be saide to h●ue bene then depending vpon any naturall or other cause then past or in being saue only the imediate sacred will of God This therefore so pl●ine foresaide p●ediction m●de by the auncient Rabbines before Christs t●me in behalfe of Reall Presence and Sacrifice demonstrating it selfe so euidently to haue proceeded not from any secondarie cause but only from a diuine instinct yeeldeth thereby a most strong argument in behalfe of the saide Doctrines 13 Thirtenthly and lastly to omitte other pointes as concerning the finall ending of controuersies not only scripture but a certaine visible and liuely Iudge vpon earth was appointed and acknowledged To omitt all other proofe thereof the Lawe of Deutronomie was that when there did (⁋) Deutron 17 8 9 11. arise any matter to hard for the people in Iudgment they were appointed to goe vp to the place which God had ch●sen and to come to the leuiticall Pri●st and to the Iudge in those daies and to aske of them the sentence of Iu●gement and to do according to ●he Iudgment which they did tell not declining neith●r to the r●g●t hand nor to the lefte it being yet further saide of him that did (*) Deutron 17 12. presumptiously refuse to obay the commaundement of the Priest tha● by the decree of ●he Iudge that man should di● Now that the sentence grounded vpon this Lawe was not subi●ct to new question vnder colour of appeal ng to the scriptures but was definitiue and finall and concerned aswell Ecclesiasticall as Ciuill Causes is in it se●fe plaine and for such (p) Doct. Rainolds in his conferēce pa. 251. circa med saith The lawe of Deutronomie was made to establish a highest Court of Iudgement in which all harder causes Ecclesiasticall Ciuill should be determined without appeall further and Mr. Whitaker de sacra scriptura p. 466. prope finem saith Respondeo verba ista intelligenda esse c. de authoritate tantum definiendi difficiles lites ac cōtrouersias siue ecclesiasticas illas quidem per ministrum siue politicas et foreses per magistratum vt esset semper in vtrisque aliquis a quo prouocare non liceat alioqum enim nullus esset litigandi finis vide ibidem pag. 470. paulo post med And Mr. Bil●on in his perpetuall gouerment of Christes Church pag. 20. post med saith hereof that the same did conscerne such matters as were of greatest momēt both Ciuill and sacred and their sentence by Gods law no man might refuse without punishment of death And see the like assertion in Mr. Hooker in his preface before his bookes of e●clesi●sticall policie pa. 26. fine 27. 28. fine confessed by Mr. D. Rainolds Mr. D. Whitaker Mr. D. Bilson and Mr. Hooker Where-vpon it is euident that not only scripture which they of the olde Testament had as well as we now haue but besides that a certaine visible Iudge was then appointed to determin cōtrouersies And for so much as the occasion to haue controuersies ended is as greate now as during the olde Testament the doubts of religion being as now many moe and the daunger of error no lesse greuous whether theref●re may it be thought that our (q) Haeor 8 6. Testament which is established in better promisses is want●ng of this priuiledge and so therby the Ecclesiasticall policie of Moyses time to be preferred herein before that other which succeeded by Christ With which only laste reason the Puritanes doubt not to (r) Penrie in his supplication to the high Courte of Parliament p. 21. fine saith That forme of gouerment which maketh our Sauiour Christ Inferior vnto Moyses is an impious vngodly vnlawfull gouerment contrarie to the word c. See him further p. 22. 23. peruse the occasion and circumstance of this his reason and it will appeare to houlde much more stronge in this point then in that other for which he vrgeth it presse their other Protestant Brethren in matters of much smaller importance By which so many foresaide examples of our Catho●icke Faith thus affirmed by the auncient Iewes that liued before Christs comming it is made further probable that our religion is not new or lately deuised but most auncient and vndoubtedly apostolicke which point is made as yet much more cleare by that which is hereafter (s) See hereafter tract 〈◊〉 sect 7. 8. alleadged concerning the Romane Church being conuerted in the Apostles time and her not being sithence changed in religion THAT TREW MIRACLES MAKE a strong argument And that the aforesaide faith whereto the Englishe were conuerted was confirmed with such Miracles § 5. AND like as in those firster times of the Churches infancie our Sauiour did make manifest the truth of his Apostles Doctrine with vndoubted Miracles to serue as (a) 〈◊〉 cor 12 12. signes of theire Apostleshipe to that end (b) Marc. 16 20. Confirming the word wi●h s●gnes followinge So likewise this vertue or power of Miracles not ceasing but as our aduersaries confesse (c) Whereas our Sauiour Ihon. 14 12. saith Hee that beleeueth in mee the workes that I do he shall do and greater In the Marginall Notes of the Englishe Bibles Printed 1576. it is there-upon saide this is referred to the wholle Body of the Church in whome this vertue doth shine for euer shininge in the Church for euer the necessitie thereof being one and the same in all succeeding ages to the conuersion of the heathen who contemning the scriptures are nothing moued with the Miracles thereof mencioned our Sauiour did in like maner confirme our now faith so then taught by Aust●ne with like manifestation of Miracles not such only as Antichrist or the Diuell can by the power of nature or secondarie causes bring to passe which may be (d) Thes 2 9. lying signes against which wee are forewarned but with Miracles exceeding the power of nature and done imediately by God which by the Doctrine of learned Protestants (e) Vrsinus in Cōmentar catech pag. 21. fine saith Etsi Ethnicorum nonnulla miracula commemorantur ac de Antichristo pseudoprophetis dictum est edituros esse signa c. tamen caneque numero neque magnitudine paria sunt miraculis Ecclesiae c. primum enim ea miracula quae iactantur ab hostibus ecclesiae sunt eiusmodi quae ordine naturae non mutato hominum vel diabolorū fraudibus possunt effici c. miracula vero quibus Deus ecclesiā ornauit opera sunt preter aut contra naturae causarum secundarum ordinem ac proinde non nisi diuina potentia facta And the like is affirmed by Zanchius in D. Pauli epistolas ad Philipenses Colloss Thessai pag. 241. 242. By Danaeus in Isagoges Christianae part 4.

4. also Oecolampadius in libro epistolarum Oecolampadij Suinglij l. 2. page 301. circa med saith hereof Parentum compatrum fides pueros sanctificat And Praetorius l. de Sacramentis page 108. saith Respectu fidelium parentum infantes fideles habentur c. Credunt igitur infantes sed in parentibus they are comprehended within the couenant of eternall life by meanes of the faith of theire Parents (*) In the propositions page 178 are for that cause to be Baptixed and that there-fore the Children of Iewes Turkes and such like professed Infidels are (u) In the propositions principles c. vbi supra sect 8. page 179. and mr Whitaker contra Duraeum l. 8. page 679. fine saith Infidelium liberos vt Turcarum Iudeorum Ethnicorum Caluinus meritò veré negat esse baptizandos and the like is taught by Kimnedoncius in his redemption of mankind l. 2. c. 15 page 167 fine and see mr D. Some in his defence against Penrye and refutation c. page 150. not to be Baptized as not being comprehended within the couenant by reason that their Parents do not beleeue All this yet notwith-standing they professe (x) Taught by mr Whit gifte in his defence c. page 623 ante med By mr Hooker in his ecclesiasticall policie l. 3. sect 1. page 131 by D. Some vbi supra page 149 150 and in the foresaide propositions and principles c. page 179. sect 9. It is saide by the Diuines of Geneua We are of minde that the children of Papists may be receaued vnto Baptisme to teach and practise their Baptizing of Infants Borne of Catholicke or as they terme Popishe Parents Not saith Mr. Hooker in regard of (y) mr Hooker vbi supra Gods promise which reacheth vnto a thousand generations for by this reason the Children of Turkes and as Mr. Hooker saith (z) Master Hooker ibidem all the worlde may bee Baptized in so much as no man is a thousand discents remoued from Adam But their saide Baptising of them is according to the other premises of their Doctrine by them selues practised and holden good though as Mr. D. Some affirmeth (a) mr Some in his foresaide defence c. cap. 22. page 165 167 to Penry they were the Children of Popishe west-Indians whose other former auncestors neuer knew the Christian faith and though saith hee those West-indians (b) Master Some ibidem page 167. were Baptized by Popish Shauelings yet they receaued true Baptisme and were ingraffed into Christ and for this reason because there is a Church in Popery for saith he (c) mr Some ibidem p. 149 post med saith And Amandus Polanus in partic theologic page 305 post med saith Hodierna Ecclesia Romana est adhuc Ecclesia Christi sed omnium impurissima c. alioquin ij qui in papatusunt baptizati extra ecclesiam Christi ac proinde nec baptismo Christi fuissent baptisati c. If there were no Church at all in Popery then the Infants of Papistes were not to be Baptized in any reformed Church By which premisses of their confessed practise it appeareth 1 that the Children of Catholicke or Popish Parents are to be Baptized 2 as being comprehended within the couenant of eternall life 3 and that by reason of their parents Faith So euidently in their Doctrine and practise is the faith of the Catholicke or Popish Parents houlden for auaileable to his Childe And shall it then be thought damnable to him selfe or houlden worthy to be yet further persecuted by our so implacable and vnrelenting aduersaries THAT PROTESTANTS CANNOT proue that the Romane Church did change her Religion since the first Conuersion thereto in the Apostles time § 7. AND for so much as it is your HIGHNES ⁋ In the summe of the Conference before the Kings Maiestie pag. 75. circa med Constant and resolute opinion that no Church ought further to seperate it selfe from the Church of Rome then shee hath departed from her selfe whē shee was in her florishing best estate In further probabilitie therfore of the Premisses we do presume hereby most humbly to submitte to your MAIESTIES most learned Iudgment this briefe discourse had thereof in the two sections next ensuing it is generally confessed that the Romane Church was once the true Church and professed the right faith whereto the (p) I thanke my God for you c. because your faith is renowned throughout the wholle worlde Rom. 1 8. To all that be at Rome the beloued of God called to be Saintes grace to you Rom. 1 7. That which is common to vs both your faith and mine Rom. 1 12. Your obedience is published in euery place Rom. 16 19. Apostle him selfe giueth full and assured testimonie where-vpon it euidently followeth that if the Romane Church haue not sithence changed her religion then she still retaineth and persisteth in the right faith Now as touching her supposed change we will breifely examine what our learned aduersaries who haue purposely and seriously laboured in discouery or proofe of this pretended change do most materially obiect in that behalfe 1 First then (q) Mr. Whitaker contra Duraeum l. 7 page 480 initio and mr Fulke in his answere to a counterfeite Catholike p. 36. post med the first saith Mr. Whitaker and Mr. Fulke That exercised Iurisdiction vpon forraine Churches was Victor whereto we answere as doth the Lord Archbishope of Canterburie concerning womans Baptisme saying to Mr. Carthwright (r) mr Whitgifte in his defence page 510 prope finem you say in the margent that Victor Anno. 198. did first appointe that women might Baptize by this you do add more credit to the cause then you are aware of for Victor was a Godly Bishope and Martir and the Church at that time was in greate Purity as not being longe after the Apostles whereto we further add that whereas Victor in the example now vrged did vpon occasion (s) The occasion hereof was that the Churches of Asia minor had receaued of S. Iohn the Euangelist to obserue our Lordes Pasch or Easter day not alwaies vppon Sonday but with the Iewes in regarde of theire knowne weakenes vpon the 14. of the moone as in like sorte vpon the same groūd was for the time tollerated Circumcision Act. 16 3. and abstinence from bloode and that which is strangled Act. 15 20. The Bishops of Rome who had receaued of S. Peter and Paule the other manner did accordinglye tollerate the Churches of Asia til such time as that certaine of them in Asia made this their obseruation necessarie in so much that the other manner was condemned by the Iudaizing hereticke B●asius Tertulian de praescript circa finem and centur 2. c. 5 col 107. l. 12. hereupon Victor thought good to tollerate them no longer and therfore prescribed the Bishops of Asia to be excomunicated vnlesse they conformed them selues to the latine Church in the obseruation of

to decree Transubstantiation yet the same to be an Innouation as Mr. Whitaker saith then First inuented is more thē improbable The truth here of therefore was most plainely to the contrarie that in the age before that Councell the Doctrine of Transubstantiation was publicke and generall only Berengarius as then impugned the same and was therein publickly contradicted and specially written against by diuers Fathers (p) There did in that age write purposelye in proofe of the Reall presence Anselmus Lanfrancus Guitmundus Adelmanus Algerus Hugo Lingonensis and others in so much that Papir Maslon Annal. francorū l. 3. in Henrico Rege testifieth saying Berengario omnes illius temporis Theologi Bellum indixere And Oecolampadius in libro epist Oecolampadij Suinglij l. 3. pag. 712. fine saith Viuo Berengario multi contra ipsum scripserunt of seuerall Nations in that age In so much as the fore-saide Councell of Laterane was at length then afterwardes assembled against that his then new seeming opinion A thing so euident that Mr. Foxe confesseth and saith therof (q) Foxe act monumē printed 1576. pag. 1121 b. circa medium about the yeare of our Lord 1060. the denying of Transubstantiation beganne to be accoumpted Heresie and in that num●er was first one Berengarius who liued about Anno. 1060. So farr was Transubstantiation from being as Mr. Whitaker pretendeth first affirmed or invented after-wardes in the Councell of Laterane Anno. 1215. Secondly we say that also the many sayings ouer tediouse here to recite of the other much more auncient Fathers who liued long before the Laterane Councell are so plaine and pregnant for Transubstantiaton that the learned Protestants thē●elues do in plaine tearmes accordingly acknowledge the same and therefore reprehend the saide Fathers To omitte the plaine testimonie (*) Osiander in epitom hist eccles Cent. 9. 10. 11. page 95. fine saith Anno. 950. exorta est in Clero Cantuariensi acris contentio de Pane Eucharistico alij enim asseuerabant priorem panis substantiam remanere nihillominus simul ibi verū Christi Corpus porrigi● alij verò pugnabant recitatis verbis Domini priorem substantiam elementorum prorsus euanescere atque transire in corpus Domini c. And Crispinus in his booke of the estate of the Church page 286. circa med pag 289 initio 323. post medium confesseth that Paschasius who liued Anno Domini 880. taught Transubstantiation herein of Osiander and some others in this sort it is confessed and affirmed that (r) Affirmed by mr Carelile in his booke that Christ descended not into Hell fol. 58. and by Oecolampadius in libro epistolarum Oecolampadij Suinglij l. 3. page 661. and see Mr. Fulke against Heskens page 217 post med 204. ante med 296 fine And by Carion in chronic page 451. initio Damascene taught Transubstantiation that both (s) See the treatise entitled Commonefact cuiusdam theologi de sacra Domini Caena eiusdem Commonefact consideratio page 211. post med where it is said Theophilactus Damascenus plané inclinant ad Transubstantiationé vide Chemnitiū examen part 2. p. 83. a. paulo post med pa. 90. b. circa medium Damas●ene and Theophilacte do euidently encline to Transubstantiation that (t) Humfredus in Iesuitismi part 2 rat 5. page 626 saith In Ecclesiam verò quid inuexerunt Gregorius Augustinus intulerunt c. Transubstantiationē c. Gregorie the greate and Austine brought into England Transubstantiation that (v) The Centurie writers cent 4. c. 10. col 985. line 30. say of Eusebius Emissenus that parum commode de Transubstantiatione dixit c. Eusebius Emissenus did speake vnprofitably of Transubstantiation that (x) The Centurie writers vndertaking in their fifth centurie c. 4. col 496. line 4. to set downe errores Doctorum huius seculi do therein col 517. line 23. say Chrisostomus Transubstantiationem videtur confirmare nam ita scribit in sermone de Eucharistiae num vides Panem num Vinum num sicut reliqui cibi in secessum vadunt absit ne sic cogites quemadmodum enim si cera igni adhibita illi assimilatur nihil substantiae remanet nihil superfluit sic hic puta misteria consumi corporis substantia Chrisostome doth seeme to confirme Transubstantiation whereto sondry other like examples might be added A thinge so euident that Adamus Francisci a learned Protestant writer doth therefore acknowledge how that (y) Adamus Francisci in Margarita theologica page 256. post med saith Commentum Papistarum de Transubstantiatione maturé in ecclesiam irrepsit Transubstantiation entred early into the Church so improperly if not wilfully vntruly is the foresaide example of the Laterane Councell and Innocent the third vrged by Mr. Whitaker and so many other of his brethren 5 Fiftely Mr. Whitaker giueth example in Boniface the third saying (z) Wkitaker contra Duraeum lib. 7. page 480. post medium he that first intitled the Romane Church to be Caput omnium ecclesiarum the head of all Churches was Boniface the third Whereto we answere that although this point be for the matter thereof alreadie answered by that which hath bene heretofore saide to the former examples of Victor Zozimus Boniface the first and Celestinus yet to refell Mr. Whitaker euen in Terminis whereas Boniface the third was Pope Anno. 607. that verie title of being Head is acknowledged and giuen to the Romane Church by many Fathers (a) Theodor●e though agretian in epist ad Renatum presbiterum saith of the Romane Church tenet enim Sancta ista sedes gubernacula regenda rum cuncti orbis ecclesiarum And in the Counsell of Calcedon act 1. it is saide and not contradicted Papae vrbis Romae quae est caput omnium Ecclesiarū praecepta habemus Greeke and (b) Prosper de in gratis c. 2. saith sedes Roma petri quae Pastoralis honoris facta caput mundo c. And Victor Vticensis de persecusione vandalica l. 2. saith praecipue ecclesia romana quae caput est omnium ecclesiarū And Ennodius diaconus in libro de sinodis sub spiniacho habitis saith sanctorum voce patet pontificū dignitatem sedis apostolicae factam toto orbe venerabilem dum illi quicquid fidelium est submittitur dum totius corporis caput esse designatur Vigilius Bishope of Rome in epist ad Euterum c. 7. saith Sancta Romana Ecclesia c. Primatum tenet omnium Ecclesiarum ad quam tam summa episcoporum negotia iudicia atque quaerelae quam maiores Ecclesiarum quaestiones quasi ad caput semper referenda sunt Latin who liued before those times And Gregorie the greate predecessor to this Boniface affirmeth in sundry places that (c) Greg. l. 11. ep 54. in quartū Psalmum Paenitentialem Romana Ecclesia est omnium Ecclesiarum caput For and with which very title

homiliarum hom 49. c. 3. and Hospinianus in historia sacramentaria l. 4. pa. 366. circa med reproueth the same Doctrine of Auriculer Confession in Peter Lombard who saith he liued Anno. 1150. also in Hugo de S. Victore who liued saith he about the yeare 1130. both of them before Innocēt the third who all liued before Innocent the third do the like for their times To omitte that S. Basill affirmeth plainely that Confession is (z) See Basills words hereafter tract 3. sect 1 in the margent vnder the letter a. Necessarie and that S. Leo affirmeth it to be Christs (a) See the wordes of Leo hereafter tract 3. sect 1. in the margent vnder the letter a institution teaching with all euen (b) Vide ibidem secret Confession Our aduersaries the centurie writers (c) The centurie writers cent 3. c. 6. col 127. l. 28. say absolutionē deinde a peccatis ita conferebant si qui paeenetentiam agebant peccatum prius confessi essent sic enim confessionē magnopere Tertulianus vrgent in libro de paenitentia vsitatam fuisse priuatam confessionem qua delicta cogitata quoque praua confessi sunt ex aliquot C●priani locis apparit vt ex sermone quinto de lapsis l. 3 epistolarū epistola 14. 16. vbi diserte ait in minoribu● etiam pecca tis quae quidē non in deum committuntur necesse est ad exomologesm venire idque frequenter fierr inbet l. 1. epist 3. c. speaking of the auncient Churches vsage euen in those former times of Ciprian and Tertulian do out of their writings most plainely collecte and set downe priuate Confession euen of thoughts and lesser sinnes and that it was as then commaunded and thought necessarie So greately is Mr. Whitaker mistaken in this example (x) Petrus Damianus epist 1. alleadgeth a notable example in proofe hereof vide eum in serm 2 de S. Andrea Apostolo and concludeth aduising men not to deferre their confession 8 Eightly Mr. Whitaker giueth example in Pope Nicholas the second saying of him (d) Whitaker contra Dureum l. 7. pa. 480. Qui primus docuit corpus Christi sensual●●er tractari fra●gi dentibus atteri is Nicholaus secundus suit Whereto we aunswere 1. First that the matter hereof is already sufficiently answered by that which hath bene heretofore saide concerning The fourth former example of Transubstantiation and the confessed antiquitie thereof in many Fathers who liued long before this Pope Nicholas the second 2. Secondly cōcerning the phrase which is but a verball obiection S. Chrisostome many ages before Pope Nicholas saide in like manner (e) Chrisostom in Math. hom 83. post med Ipsum vides Ipsum tangis Ipsum comedis And else where (f) Chrisostō in Iohn hom 4 5. post med Non se tantum videri permittet desiderantibus sed tangi manducari dentes carni sua infigi And in what true and sober sence these words may in regard (g) As S. Paule in like regard saith This is my Body which is broken for you 1. cor 11 24. and Caluin de caena dom inter opuscula saith in like manner Iohn Baptist saith he sawe the holy Ghost descending of we looke narrowly we shall finde he sawe nothing but a Doue c. Yet because hee knewe that vision to be c. a most certaine signe of the presence of the Holy Ghost he bouldely affirmeth that he sawe him c. As the holy Ghost is in regard of this foresaid presence saide to be seene and to descend so may Christs Body in regard of it like presence in the Sacrament be likewise saide to be handled broken c. of Christs Body Really present in the Sacrament be vsed is at large affirmed by our aduersaries the Lutheranes who doubt not specially to (h) Iacobus Andraeas in confut disput Iohan. Iacobi Grinaei pa. 214. ante med saith quomodo autem corpus Christi in hoc sacramento dentibus teri videri tangi dicatur quae non á Luthero recens inuentae in ecclesiam introductae sed eruditae piae orthodoxae vetustatis phrazes sunt c. Luculenter explicatum est And page 215. post medium Hee saith Haec Berengario á Papa Nicholao sinodo praescripta pallinodia nihil continet quod inscriptis orthodoxorū Patrum Chrisostomi in primis non continetur vide page 306. And of Luthers like allowance and defence of Pope Nicholas herein vide ibidem page 307. initio fine And so the booke entituled apologia modesta ad acta conuentus quindecem theol torgae nuper habit page 36. post medium defend against their other brethren our aduersaries this very obiection concerning Pope Nicholas 9 Ninthly and lastly for we will not in this our discourse which toucheth only Rome be tediouse in rehearsing Mr. Whitakers other vntrue and impertinent examples concerning other Churches or Bishopes Mr. Whitaker for wante of greater matter chargeth Pope Calixtus that (i) Whitaker contra Duraeum l. 7. pag. 480. he was the first that ordeined Ieiunium quatuor temporum where-vnto for so much as this auncient Pope was the imediate successor next but one to Victor we answere as heretofore did the Lord Archbishope of Canterbury concerning Victor saying (k) Se hertofore tract 1. sect 7 letter r. By this you add more credit to the cause then you are aware of c. And seeming that Mr. Whitaker can alleadge no auncient writer charging Calixtus with Innouation herein the example therfore and authoritie of so auncient a Father doth not so much impugne as giue credit to this appointed fast so as further answere herevnto is needlesse Mr. Whitaker hauing thus failed in euery one of those examples whereof he made boulde to giue instance and the Romane Church being found therein free from all supposed change or Innouatiō how much the rather now are we to esteeme it no lesse cleared from change in those other so many greate Doctrines whereof he is not able to aforde so much as colour of instance to the contrarie his apparent want in that behalfe being such as enforced him for shew of varietie to giue as before seuerall examples concerning one the same question as namely concerning the Blessed Sacrament and the Popes foresaide Primacie In all which neuerthelesse he had so little trust and did so well fore knowe the discouerable weakenes thereof that he else where protesteth plainely that he and his breethren (l) Mr. Whitaker l. 3. contra Duraeum pag. 277. ante med And Bucanus in loc comun pag. 466. saith non est nostrum designare quo temporis momento experit ecclesia deficere c. are not bound to answere in what age Superstition crepte into the Church and that (m) Mr. Whitaker l. 7. contra Duraeum pag. 477. post med it is not needfull for them to search out in histories the beginning of this change And for that

more stronge nexte before the beginning of the saide 160. yeares was as is confessed the deniall of praier and offering sacrifice for the dead of our appointed fasts condemned as singuler in (c) Hereof see Aug. haer 53. and Epiphanius haer 75. ante med And Mr. Fulke in his aunswere to a Counterfaite Catholicke pag. 44. fine 45. initio Confesseth this saying I will not dissemble that which you thinke the greatest matter Aerius taught that Praier for the dead was vnprofitable as witnes both Epiphanius and Austine which they coumpt for an error Also he taught that fasting daies are not to be obserued And see this confessed in like manner by Pantaleon in Chronographia pag. 28. initio Aërius So also was the deniall of praier to Saints and worshipping of Saints Relickes condemned likewise as then in (d) Hierom contra Vigilantium c. 2. 3. And Mr. Fulke confesseth this likewise vbi supra pag. 46. paulo ante med saying Last of all Vigilantius shall be brought in who wrote against Inuocation of Saints superstition of Relickes and other Caeremonies him Hierome reproueth vide centur 4. col 1250. line 45. And Osiander in epitom cent 4. l. 4. pag. 506. ante med And see this further confessed by Crispinus in his discourse of the estate of the Church pag. 131. post med Vigilantius In the same times were condēned in like manner the deniall of Images in (*) Functius a Protestant writer in libro 7. Comentariorum in precedent Chronologiam At Anno. Christi 494. confesseth saying Porro is xenayas primus in Ecclesia bellum contra imagines excitauit And Nicephorus in hist Eccles l. 16. c. 27. saith Xenayas iste primus o audacem animam os impudens vocem illani euomuit Christi corum qui illi placuere imagines venerandas non esse And see also hereof Cedrenus in compendio histor Xenayas and the deniall of voluntarie pouertie and monasticall profession in (e) Hierome contra Vigilantium prope finem saith quod autem asseris cos melius facere qui vtuntur rebus suis paulatim fructus possessionum suarum pauperibus diuidunt quám illos qui possessionibus venundatis semel omnia largiuntur non a me cis sed a Domino respondebitur si vis esse perfectus vade vende omnia quae habes da Pauperibus veni sequere me Ad eum loquitur qui vult esse perfectus c. iste quem tu laudas secundus tertius gradus est quem nos recipimus dummodo seramus prima secundit tertijs preferenda nec á suo studuo monachi deterrendi sunt á te lingua ●●perea morsu saeuissimo de quibus argumentaris dicis si omnes se clauserint fuerint in solitudine quis caelebrabit Ecclesias c. And see this plainely confessed by Crispinus in his booke of the estate of the Church pag. 131. and 132. Vigilantius others (f) In like manner is Ianuarius for this like Doctrine reproued by S. Austine serm 49. ex diuersis cap. 1. and Instus is for the same reproued by Gregorie l. 4. dial c. 55. And see further hereof Leo ep 92. ad rusticum And concil Chalcedon cap. 7. and Austine ep 89. ad Hillarium and Chrisostom l. aduersus vit●peratores vitae monasticae The deniall of the power of Priestes to remitt sinnes in the (g) See this hereafter Tract 3. Sect. 1. in the margent at the letter x. Nouatians The deniall of freewill of remission of sinnes and grace conferred in Baptisme in the (h) Hierom in proaem librorum aduersus Pelagianos fine saith Manichaeorum est hominum damnare naturam liberum auferre arbitrium dei adiutorium And see Hierom in explan symb ad damasum And S. Austine de fide contra manich c. 9. saith Aduersus haec solita caecitate manichaei latr●nt cum conuincuntur naturam non esse malum sed in potestate esse hominis facere bené aut male dicunt non esse animae liberam voluntatem non vident cae●tatem suam c. vide ibidem cap. 10. in actis cum faelice manichaeo l. 2. cap. 4. And Chrisostom in Iohn hom 45. prope initium saith Christ saide to them no man can come to me except the Father who sent me drawe him Here at the Manichees do rise vp contending by testimony of this scripture that we can do nothing of our selues c. But this taketh not awaie our freewill but sheweth that we neede Gods helpe And concerning the other point touching Baptisme Mr. Whitaker l. 10. contra Duraeum pa. 883. confesseth the same saying Nos in Baptismo peccata remitti gratiam conferri credimus ac docemus quod negare soliti sunt Manichaei ergo nos á Manichaeis alienisumus vide sarcerium loc comun tom 1. de Baptismo fol. 232. b. post medium Manichees The deniall of the necessitie of Childrens Baptisme in the (i) Innocentius in rescripto ad mileuitanum conciliū post med saith of the Pelagians illud vero quod vestra fraternitas cos asserit predicare paruulos aeternae vitae praemijs absque Baptismatis gratia posse donari perfatuum est In like plaine manner is this poine condemned in the Pelagians by S. Austine haer 88. contra Iul. Pelag. l. 6. c. 7. de pecc mer. rem l. 2. c. 9. 27. and by S. Leo. ep 86. ad Episcopum Aquiliensem Pelagianes The deniall of the Blessed Sacramēts reseruation in the (k) Cirrill ad Calosyrium sayth I heare they say that the misticall blessing If any remnants therof do remaine till the nexte day following is vnprofitable to sanctification but they are mad in so saying for Christ is not made an other neither shall his body be changed but the vertue of blessing and liuely grace doe alwaies remaine in it This pointe is so plaine and confessed that Peter Martir aduersus Stephans Gardeneri librum de Eucharistia printed Basilea Anno 1581 obiect 213. col 838. post med saith of this saying of Cirrill Quod autem subijcitur Eucharistia reliquias asseruatas in chrastinum diem a sanctificatione non cessare spectat opinor ad receptam quanaam consuetudinem c. ea consuetudo etsi saperet nonnihil superstitionis tamen illi Cirrillus alique subscribebant statim enim a temporibus Apostolorum paulatim caeptum est degenerar● ab illa veteri simplicitate diuini cultus Anthropomorphites The deniall of the single vnmaried life of Priests in (l) Hierom contra Vigilantium c. 1. condemneth this doctrine in Vigilantius saying hereof against him Quid faciunt Orientis Ecclesiae quid aegipti sedis Apostolica quae aut virgines clericos accipiunt aut continentes aut si vxores habuerint mariti esse desinunt Vigilantius (m) See Hierom. l. 1. contra Iouin c. 19. 14. ad

of the whole time since the Apostles to this present that (¶) See Mr. Bunny in his treatise tending to pacificatiō Sect 14. circa med pa. 89. the Church of Rome hath euer continued after a sorte in the profession of the faith since the time that by the Apostles it was deliuered to them c. and hath also in some manner preserued and hitherto maintained both the word and the sacraments that Christ himselfe did leaue vnto vs which surely saith he is a very speciall blessing of God an euident worke of the holy Ghost c. And thus much briefly whether that the Romane Church professing the right faith in the Apostles times hath at any time since euer altred or changed the same against our foresaid discourse wherof grounded vpon seuerall truthes confessed euen by our aduersaries if any boulder forehead shal wilfully oppose it selfe shall without other answere or respecte had to that which his learned brethren haue heretofore cōfessed and we otherwise proued leape ouer al the foresaide proofes and ages iumping per saltum vp to the Apostles then tell vs (*) So Mr. Whitaker l 7 Contra Duraeum pa. 478 ante medium saith Nobis sufficit ex Pontificiorū dogmatū scripturarum collatione discrimen dissimilitàdinē●gnoscere historicis liberum relinquimus scribere quid v● lint that howsoeuer we proue from histories Fathers or other testimonie of their owne writers concerning euery of the ages since the Apostles times yet the scriptures thēselues are in his (¶) Hereof see hereafter Tract 2. c. 1. Sect. 1. initio in the margent at the letter p. and 〈◊〉 q. opinion contrary in many points to that faith which the Romane Church now professeth and that therein therefore she hath changed the faith which was first to her deliuered Besides that this is a most needie and miserable begging of the thing in question against which we doe vehemently contest as being more then perswaded that our aduersaries cannot truely alleage from the first of Genesis to the last of the Reuelations so much as any one texte of scripture which maketh with them and against vs. Let that man all other of his minde yet also further consider that for so much as the sacred SCRIPTVRES them selues do as before (t) See heretofore Tract 1. Sect. 8. l. n. o. and hereafter Tract 2. c. 2. Sect 1. prope initium affirme that the Churches true Pastours must euermore continew and withstand all innouation of false doctrine euen with open reprehension The answerable performance wherof in perticuler being matter of fact can be to vs at this day no otherwise made knowen then vpon the onely credite of humane testimonie commended to vs by historie (u) Mr. Whitaker Contra Duraeum l. 7. page 472. saith Quicquid de Ecclesiae Propagatione Amplitudine gloria veteres Prophetae predixerunt id perfectum esse historia Luculentissime testatur ita vatic inijs Prophetarum Ecclesiasticam historiā suffragari nulla controuersia est the force of which testimonie our very aduersaries acknowledge (*) Mr. Hooker in his Ecclesiastical Policie l. 2. p. 115. initio saith The strength of mans authoritie is affirmatiuely such that the weightest affaires in the world depend there-vpon And ibidem pag. 116. ante medium VVhatso-euer we beleeue concerning saluation by Christ although the scripture be therin the grounde of our beleefe yet is mans authoritie the keye that openeth the dore c. The scripture coulde not teach vs these thinges vnlesse wee beleeued men c And ibidem l. 1. page 86. ante medium Of thinges necessarie the very cheefest is to knowe what bookes we are bound to esteeme holy which point is confessed impossible for the scripture it selfe to teach And l. 2. Sect. 4. page 102. fine for if any one booke of scripture did giue testimonie to all yet still that scripture which giueth credit to the rest would require an other scripture to giue credit vnto it neither coulde we euer come to any pause whereon to rest our assurance vnlesse besides scripture there were some thinge which might assure vs. c. vpon which ground l. 3. Sect. 8. page 146. fine he saith VVe all knowe that the first out-ward motiue leading men so to esteeme of the scripture is the authority of Gods Church And Mr. Whitaker aduersus Stapletonum l. 2. c. 4. page 298. post med saith non nego traditionem Ecclesiasticam esse argumentum quo argui conuinci possit qui libri sunt canonici qui non And ibidem page 300. ante medium Hoc semper dixi sensique vide ibidem l. 1. page 25. ante medium And in his booke against Mr. VVilliam Rainoldes page 44. circa med In so much as the Protestant author of the treatise of the scripture and the Church so greatelie commended by Bullinger in his preface before that booke doth after the Englishe translation thereof cap. 15 page 72 say we coulde not beleeue the ghospell were it not that the Church taught vs and witnessed that this Doctrine was deliuered by the Apostles And see further there cap. 19. page 74. 75. that there-fore the same SCRIPTVRES do therein most euidently perforce reduce them to this foresaid triall by historie and Fathers whereto if they stand their ouerthrow they see is certaine and in refusing the same their flight is shamefull As for the further extremest bouldnes of such who are in these straites resolued not to acknowledge the (⁋) Iohannes Regius in libro apologetico c. page 192. post medium and 193. being vrged to shew wherein the Romane Church changed her faith and not able to giue any one perticuler example thereof betaketh him-selfe to this extreemest bouldnes answering page 193. post medium Sed denique licet verum esset Romanam Ecclesiam in sua religione nihil mutasse an propterea mox sequetur eam esse veram Ecclesiam Non opinor In defence whereof he is not ashamed to alleadge sondry impertinent reasons vnworthy of rehersall Romane Church to be a true Church though it were true that she had not changed any thing in religion We passe the same ouer as being most absurde and much more worthy of contempt then answere THE SECOND TRACT FIRST CHAPTER SECT 1. THAT CHRISTS CHVRCH VVAS BY the Predictions of the Prophets foretolde to become vniuersall and to conuert with great increase the Kinges and Nations of the Gentiles AND for so much most GRATIOVS SOVERAIGNE as it hath bin the course of certaine our aduersaries vnder the pretence of onely scripture to vnder take libertie of reiecting all our former confessed proofes drawen from the authoritie of Mir●cles though neuer so true of Fathers though neuer so auncient and so thereby in the end making them selues and euery of their vulgar followers Iudges (p) Luberius in libro de principijs christian dogm l. 6. c. 13. page 563. ant● med saith Omnes publicos Iudices vt interpretando

initio He greatly reuerenced Anthonie the Moncke whose religiouse and austere life Protestants terme (t) Osiander in Epitom cent 4. c. 2. p. 100. superstitiouse (u) Euseb de vita Constantini l. 3. c. 2. He signed him selfe with the signe ●f the Crosse (x) Zozomen hist l. 1. c. 4. 8. prope finem And Euseb in orat de Laudi●u● Constantini ante med saith Imperator triumphale signum honorat And Prudentius in apotheosi doth accordingly affirme this vsage in the auncient Emperours saying thereof Vexillumque Cruci● summus dominator adorat And Szegedinus in his speculum pontificū pag. 229. saith Crux honorari capit Constantini tempore Honoured the same signe Had affiance (y) Euseb de vita constantini l. 2 c. 7. and successe of victorie in the virtue thereof and (z) Euseb ibid. l. 1. c. 25. l. 2. c. 3. l. 3. c. 48. erected it publickly He (a) Zozomen hist l. 1. c. 9. post med ordayned that the decrees of Councels should be kepte firme and inui●lable (b) Euseb vbi supra l. 3. c. 10. fine And Theodoret hist l 1. c. 7. circa med And the Centurie writers cent 4. col 460. line 31. He would not sitt downe at the Councell of Nyce till the Bishopes had therto giuen him their assent He (c) Ambrose epist 32. And Rufinus hist l. 10 c. 2. And see this fully confessed and reported by Crispinus in his discourse of the state of the Church pa. 99. prope finem where he thus writeth thereof Constantine said God hath ordained you B shopes and hath giuen you power to iudge of your s●lues By meanes whereof we yeelde our selues to your Iudgement men may not Iudge you but God alone And ●n Zozomen hist l. 1. c. 16. Constantine saith Mihi vero non est fas cum homo sim Eiusmod● tausaris cognitionem arrogare would not vndertake the iudgement of Churche causes but committed the same ouer to Bishoppes (d) Cent. 4. col 653. line 26. 27. He reprooued A●esius the N●ua●ian for denying the power giuen Priests to remitt sinne (e) Centur. 4. col 454. line 26. Euseb de vita Consian l. 4. c. 71. After his death praier was made for his soule and (f) Euseb vbi supra the mistical● sacrifice offered And as concerning the Churches doctrine of that age it was so euidently our now professed Catholicke faith that to omitt all other perticuler proofe and what is by our other aduersaries confessed (*) In the breefe discourse of the Churches estate c. Annexed to Crispinus his booke of the estate of the Church it is affirmed how that aboute the e●l● of this period which continued vntill Constantine the loue of solitude Monckerie the abstinence frō mariage from certain meates on perticuler daies many feastes and other seedes of superstition after succeeding tooke a marueilouse roote so the Commencement of praiers for the dead and sacrifice of the Masse did discouer them selues c. in this behalfe the centurie writers of Magdeburge whose writinges are by our English Protestants affirmed to be (g) Mr. D. Hill in his defence of the article Christ descended in to hell fol. 23. b. post med worthie of immortall memorie do in their fourth Centurie by thē dedicated to our late Souraigne Lady Queene Elizabeth professe to (h) Col. 278. line 16. sett downe the peculier supposed errors of the doctor of those times and do charge them in perticuler by collection from their owne writings with (i) Cent. 4. col 291. freewill (k) Cent. 4. col 292. Iustification by workes (l) Cent. 4. col 293. Meritt of workes (m) Cent. 4. col 425. l. 54. col 426. line 10. col 294. Confession of Sinnes and Penance with (2) Cent. 4. col 425. line 60. absolution of such as had confessed with affirming (3) Cent. 4. col 1243 line 33. And see Caluin in institut l. 4. c. 19. sect 17. Penance to be the second table after shipwracke error in (4) Cent. 4. col 231. line 12 col 294. line 1. the doctrine of penance with (n) Cent. 4. col 295. line 58. col 296. 297. Inuocation af Saintes (o) Cent. 4. col 304. line 42. 43. c. Purgatorie (p) Cent. 4. col 409. line 15. 25. Aultars (q) Cent. 4. col 295. line 3. 40. col 985. line 30. Transubstantiation (r) Cent. 4. col 456. 457. 482. line 44. col 1250. line 45. translation of Saintes R●lickes and their worship (s) Cent. 4. col 457. line 58. col 458. line 1. 2. 3. Pilgrimage to holy places (t) Cent. 4. col 470. line 20. Heremites (u) Cent. 4. col 300. line 39. col 301. line 46. col 464 465. Monckes their (x) Cent. 4. col 464. line 59. col 301. line 28. 29. c. voluntarie pouertie their (y) Cent. 4. col 471. l. 23. col 474. l. 10. 11. 22. 23. abstine ce from certain meate other austeritie of life their (z) Cent. 4. col 472. l 20. Cowle girdle and other religiouse habites their vndoubted and great (*) Cent. 4. col 493. l. 18. Miracles (a) Cent. 4. col 301. l. 1. 2. 3. 54. col 706. l. 57. col 847. line 50. the Vowed chastitie of Virgins (b) Cent. 4. col 467. l. 8. 9. c. Monasteries of vowed Vi●gins (c) Cent. 4. col 495. l. 18. Rising in the night to praier also also with (d) Cent. 4. col 302. line 9. 10. 14. c. And col 495. line 30.31 And Mr. Fulke against Heskens Sanders c. pag. 657. circa med Affirmeth that Rufinus and Cirill had a superstitiouse estimation of the signe of the Crosse that also by the reporte of Paulinus the Crosse was by the Bishope of Hierusalem brought forth at Easter yearely to be worshipped of the people And Danaeus in prime partis altera parte ad Bellarminum 5. controu respons pag. 1415. initio Affirmeth that Paulinus Cirrill and sondry other Fathers were plainely superstitiouse blinded with this enchauntment of the Crosses adoration attributing to much the signe of the Crosse with (e) Cent. 4. col 417. 418. 419. Abrenunciation ANNOILING threefould Immersion And sondry other like Ceremonies vsed in Baptisme with (¶) Cent. 4. col 415. line 25. Baptisme of laye persons in case of necessitie with (⁋) Cent. 4. col 1160. line 53. col 1●43 line 39. Remission of sinnes not signified but giuen in Baptisme with (f) Cent. 4. col 415. line 44. Consecration of the water of Baptisme with teaching that (g) Cent. 4. col 303. line 18. col 704. line 11 21. col 1293. line 5. 17. Priestes might not marrie that (h) Cent. 4. col 303. line 10. col 847. line

be fulfilled during the 600. yeeres next after Christ before Boniface the third And where also we haue giuen perticular (3) See this heretofore in the begining of this section in the margent at this marke * instance of the more euident and cleare accomplishment therof begunne afterwardes and continued at after the foresaid times of Gregorie and Boniface with most plentifull and answerable successe in so many Kingdomes before mentioned Our aduersaries are not now abashed an opinion most dreadfull to be heard or thought of that where the foresaid predictions of the Prophets take their chiefest begining encrease and continuance in regarde of the Churches answerable accomplished enlargement they doubt not euen then and there to place the very contrarie defection of Antichrist Mr. Whittaker to that end is before affirminge (4) See Mr. Whitaker alleaged ibidem the Conuersion of so many Nations after the times of Gregorie to haue bene not pure but corrupte Daneus also terming it in●briatio meretricis mundo facta de qua est Apoc. 17 vers 4. 18. (5) See Danaeus his wordes alleaged ibidem Turninge so most euidently the Churches most gloriouse foretould enlargement by the answerable cōuersion of so many heathen Kings and kingdomes fulfilled but since the times of Gregorie and Boniface into their pretended (6) See before in this Section at n. o. p. vniuersall Apostasie wrought by Antichrist (7) Hieremie 2 12. O ye Heauens be astonied at this Be afraid and vtterly confounded Are they Christians who dare thus affirme the Churches foretoulde enlargement to be Antichristian Is this the end or issue of our aduersaries Doctrine (8) Math. 13 9. He that hath eares to heare let him heare But to omitt the like further testimonie herein of Mr. D. Fulke (*) Mr. D. Fulke in his treatise against Stapelton Martial p. 25. paulo post med acknowledgeth that Some Protestants haue written that the Pope hath blinded the worlde these many hundreth yeares some say a 1000. yeares some 1200 some 900. c. Mr. Iohn Napeire affirmeth yet more fully both concerning this time and the other former 300. yeares next after Constantine that (q) Mr. Napeire in his treatise vpon the reuelations pa. 43. versus finem the Popes kingdome hath had power ouer all Christians from the time of Pope Siluester and the Emperour Constantine for these 1260. yeares and that (r) Mr. Napeire vbi supra p. 145. colum 3. fine From the time of Constantine till these our daies euen 1260. yeares the Pope and his Clergie hath possessed the out-ward visible Church of Christians (s) Mr. Napeire vbi supra pa. 68. versus finem Reigning vniuersally and without any d●bateable contradiction 1260. yeares (t) Ibidem p. 191. initio Gods true Church most certainely abiding so long Latent and (u) Ibidem pag. 161. col 3 circa med pa. 156. ante med 237. paulo post med 23. fine inuisible with whome agreeth M. Brocard (x) Brocarde vpon the reuelations fol. 110. a. fol. 123. b. And Mr. Napeire doubteth not to proceede yet much further affirming that also (y) Napeire vbi supra p. 191. initio during euen the second and 3. ages after Christ the true Temple of God and l●ght of the ghospell was obscured by the Romane Antichrist him-selfe But Sebastianus Francus reacheth the very point and doubteth not to comprehend all the foresaide ages since the Apostles times affirming that Statim post Apostolos c. (z) Sebastianus Francus in Epistola de Abrogandis in vniuersum omnibus statutis Ecclesiasticis And Mr. Fulke in his aunswere to a Counterfaite Catholicke pag. 35. post medium saith The true Church decaied imediately after the Apostles times Presently after the Apostles time all things were turned vpside downe c. And that f●r ●ertaine through the worke of Antichrist the externall Church togither with the faith and sacraments vanished awaie presently after the Apostles departure and that for th●s● thousand foure hundreth yeares the Church hath bene no where externall and visible So far hath the Protestants Church hitherto bene euen by their owne testimonies from fulfilling the foresaide foretoulde Conuersion of so many KINGES and kingdomes of the Gentiles THAT THE KNOWEN DEFECT THEROF in the Protestants Church aduantageth the Iewes against them made Sebastian Castalio doubtfull of his faith and Dauid Georgean Apostata §. 5. THESE thinges most Gratious SOVERAIGNE being thus explained and confessed we do here as now insist and most humblie appeale vnto your MAIESTIES Learned and equall iudgement betweene our aduersaries and vs concerning the accomplishment of the foresaid predictions whether that the same may be said to haue bene hitherto performed by our Catholike or their Protestant Church Here haue we often knocked at the dores of theire hartes demaunding but with what probabilitie they can before Luthers time make good that which the scriptures foretell as Oecolampadius and them selues vnderstand concerning the (a) Oecolampadius alleageth before Tract 2. Sect. 1. letter q. eternitie of Christs Kingdome the multitude of Kings to serue it and which be those many Kinges and Kingdomes of the Gentiles which their Church hath in all that meane time accordingly conuerted from heathenishe Paganisme to the faith of Christ or how can their Church but be said accordingly as the scriptures (2) The glorie of this last house shal be greater then the first Aggeus 2 10. the desolate hath more Children then the married wife Esay 54 1. Galat. 4 27. He is mediator of a better testamēt which is established vpon better promisses haebr 8 6. and Oecolampadius (3) Oecolampadius in Esay c. 2. vers 2. saith Greate is the dignitie of the Christian Church aboue the sinagoge of the Iewes in that it shal be most populouse and of all Nations sondry shall Ioyne them-selues vnto it abundantly from them teach that the true Church ought to excell the Sinagogue of the Iewes but so much as since the coming of the Messias which was the appointed time of the Sinagoges decay and the Christians Churches increase considering that it is heretofore fully (4) See heretofore tract 2. c. 1. sect 4. confessed and hereafter (5) See hereafter tract 2. c. 2. sect 2. 3. 4. 5. 7. 10. further proued that for the thousand yeares last before Luther their Church hath continued vnknowen Latente and inuisible c. whereas on the other parte it appeareth by sufficient authoritie of histories in all times that the Iewes during all those ages and euer since Christes time haue had theire Sinagogues though vnder some kind of restraint yet dispersed knowen (6) Peter Martir in his common places in English part 2. pag. 599. b. initio saith hereof The Iewes as yet continew and are kept in so greate aduersities in so diueres and greeuouse captiuitie and dispersion they houlde still their religion doubtles no aunciēt Troians

Lombards Hunnes or Vandalles haue so helde still their owne c. could shew theire originall and history set forth in most true writting and being euery where dispersed as they were coulde neuertheles keepe their owne ordinances which for so much as it contineweth among the Iewes is vndoubtedly a singuler worke of God c. If now then Godes worke be such in the dispersed reprobate Iewes afrer the time of their Sinagoges decay shall it not much the rather bee more Gloriouse in his Church of the new testament which according to Paule haebr 8 6. Is established in better promises Then euer was the other of the Iewes euer before the dissolution and end thereof And see Peter Martir vbi supra pa. 328. b. fine 329. a initio visible in the most notable prouinces of the world as Greece Italy Spaine France Germanie England c. And therfore here also againe we do submit to your MAIESTIES learned iudgement whether we or they be the men that can against the obiections in this kind of the doubtfull and misbeleeuing Iewes maintaine that before Luthers time the foresaid predictions of their Prophetes haue bene fulfilled and so consequently that our Sauiour is the true Messias which falleth necessarily into great daunger of further doubt with them if so many of their Prophecies as went of the Messias and his Church haue for so many ages before Luther bene lefte vnaccomplished Neither may the scandall or scruple hence arising be a stumbling blocke onely to the Iewes but such as hath also distracted certaine of our learned aduersaries To alleage some few examples therof and withall to omitt the straites and laborinthes into which certaine principall Protestant (b) Caluin in Daniell c. 2. vers 44. and Luther tom 7. printed at Witteberg Anno 1557 lib. de Iudaeis c. writers haue bene driuen in their disputation had of this matter against the Iewes Sebastian Castalio professor at Basill (*) Osiander in Epitom histor Eccles cent 16. pa 753. initio calleth him Sebastianus castalio vir apprime doctus Caluinista tamen Linguarum peritissimus c. And Pantalion in his Chronographia p. 125. placeth him there in his catalog of the Fathers and lightes of the Church saying further that for such Guilielmus Farellus Petrus Viretus Sebastian Castalio agnoscuntur a very learned Caluinist and highly (c) Castalio cōmended by D. Humfrey de rat interpret l. 1. pa. 62. 63. and 189. And by Gesnerus in bibliotheca Sebastiā Castall And by Fridericus Furius alleadged in Sebast Castal defens suarum translat pag. 236. commended by D. Humfrey and others hauing recited sondry of the foresaid Prophecies concerning the conuersion of Kinges and the Churches foresaide happie estate and continuance and looking to the accomplishmēt thereof writeth thus perplexedly thereof to our late Soueraigne Lord King Edward the sixte (d) Sebastiā Castalio in his preface of the greate Lattin Bible dedicated to Kinge Edward the sixte saith Equidem aut haec futura fatendum est aut tam fuisse aut Deus accusandus mendacij quod si quis fuisse dicit quaeram ex eo quando fuerint si dicet tempore Apostolorum quaeram cur nec vndiquaque perfecta fuerit tam cito Exoleuerit dei cognitio ac pietas que aeterna marinis vndi● abundantior fuerat promisse Verely we must confesse either that these thinges shall be performed hereafter or haue bene already or that God is to be accused of lying If any man answere that they haue bene performed I will demaund of him when If he say in the Apostles time I will demaund how it chaunceth that neither then the knowledge of God was alt●gither perfect and after in so short space vanished away which was promised to be aeternall and more aboundant then the floodes of the sea So plainely doth he more then insinuate this perilous scruple and which is most dangerous withall leaueth the same not explained or answered but perplexed and doubtfull saying yet further thereof (e) Castalio vbi supra saith Quo magis libr●s sacr●● cōsidero eo minus hactenus praestitum video vtcunque●ra ●●la ●lla intelligas the more I do peruse the scriptur●s the lesse do I finde the same performed howsoeuer you vnderstand the said Prophecies But much more greeuous is the example hereof in Dauid George the hollander who for many yeeres continued at Basill professing there the Protestants religion and by them well estemed of till in the end he became a most blasphemous Apostata and affirming our Sauiour to be a Seducer drew secretly many to his opinion the principall motiue of his reuolt being that (f) Historia Georgij Dauidis printed at Antwerpe 1568. in Octauo the Diuines of Basill published his historie Si Christi Apostolorum doctrina vera perfecta fuisset c. If the doctrine of Christ and his Apostles had bene true perf●●t the Church which they planted c. sh●uld haue continued c. But now it is manifest that Antichrist hath subuerted the doctrine of the Apos●l●s and the Churche by them begunne as is euident in the papacie th●rfore the doctrine of the Apostles was false and imperfect Thus far that wretched Apostata By which two foresaid examples of Castalio and Dauid Ge●rge and other the premisses is fully discouered not onely the not fulfilling of the foresaid Predictions in the Protestants Church but also the dangerous sequell which thence ensueth against theire wholle Church and religion in generall A CONFVTATION OF THE PROTEstants obiections and answeres concerning their Churches not accomplishment of the said predictions Sect. 6. AND we may not here dissemble but referre like wise vnto your MAIESTIES graue iudgmēt the colours rather then answers wherwith certaine our aduersaries do in these straites seeke to vphold them selues and their Church 1 First some woulde enforce that the vniuersalitie which is foretould of the Church was to be accomplished but after (g) The Author of the booke entituled Antichristus siue Prognostica finis mundi pag. 12. fine saith spiritus qui annunciat futura non operatur nisi eunte Euangelio quod sub finem ex confesso Lutherus primus inuexit And pag. 13. post medium he further saith Non manifestatur autē perseudoprophetarum surrectio nisi Euangelio quod inde a primatiuo Apostolorum Euangelio ante Lutherum vt diximus nunquam iuit ne quis autem Hussiticum Euangelium pertinere huc putet id prohibet quod Christus illud Euangelium edicit quod sub finem per vniuersum orbem esset iturum porro Hussiticum Euangelium Bohemis tantum venit signo ergo esse non potest nam cōmune orbis Euangeliū signo esse voluit non illud vnius gentis Lutheri Euangelium per orbem volat tam voce tam praelo Luthers ghospell preached which long intermission til Luthers time as it implieth a manifest breach of Gods foresaid

Ministrorum extraordinarié vocatorū etiam dona extraordinaria fuere nempe Prophetiae donum edendi miracula c. And Musculus loc comun page 394. saith Vocatio quae imediaté est a Christo iam in vsu non est vt erat olim habebat sua signa vnde cognosci potuit de quibus memenit Marcus Euangelista cap. vlt. dicens predicauerunt c. sequentibus signis c. And mr Henoch Clapham in his soueraigne remedie against schisme page 25. initio doth vpon this ground reprehend Browne for that he did take vpon him extraordinarie calling wanted Miracles and Luther in loc comu Clas 4. c. 20. initio p. 38. post med admonisheth to this end saying Hoc explores an vocationem suam possint probare neque enim Deus vnquam aliquem misit nisi vel per Hominem vocatum vel per signa declaratum ne ipsum quidem filium And Luther tom 5. Ien. Germ. fol. 491. a. b. saith Vnde vetus quis te misit c. vbi sigilla quod ab hominibus missus sis Vbi sunt miracula quae te a Deo missum esse testantur Also Luther admonished the Senate of Milhouse against Muncer the Anabaptist saying Si dicat se a Deo atque ipsius spiritu missum esse quemadmodum Apostoli probet hoc signis miraculis editis vel nolite ferre vt concionetur nam vbicunque Deus ordinariam viam mutare vult ibi semper miracula facit Luther tom 2. Ien. Germ. fol. 455. b. 456. a. and hereof 〈◊〉 Sleydon lib. 3. An. 25. Also Sigwartus in his 23 disputationes theologic c page 207 sect 8. saith Haec vocatio semper extraordinaria quaedam diuina dona comitantia habet quae sunt tanquam sigilla doctrinae c. cuiusmodi fuerunt miracula c. Miracles adioyned thereto in testimonie that it was from God which were wanting in Waldo So likewise as the learned Protestants them selues graunt it is now since the Apostles times (a) Musculus vbi supra and Lobechius in disput theolog page 358 fine 359 initio saith Imediatam porrò vocationem cum mediata ab Apostolis permutatam esse scriptura testatur c. credimus imediatae vocationis vsum Deo in hoc mundo nullum amplius futura nullam quippe de ea dedit promissionem nullum mandatum And D. Sarauia in his booke of the diuers degrees of Ministers page 9. initioterm●th extraordinary calling an vnknowne coast out of which the now defendors thereof can no waies wind them selues And see mr D. Couell in his defence of mr Hooker pag. 86. fine 87. initio and see Sarauia in defen tract c. contra resp Bezae p. 306 307. And ibid. page 37. circa med he saith Sed speciem illam extraordinariae vocationis ad Ecclesiae ministerium c. cum nullo testimonio scripturarum nec exemplo certo doceatur non admitto est enim periculi plena noui malique exempli c. ea sola fretus nemo se ministerio Ecclesiastico ingerere debet And see there page 35. 36. 38. c. ceassed and not t● be expected as being without all proofe or testimonie in the writings of the new testament If now therefore Waldo did as appeareth by Protestants them selues vndertake to (b) Simon de Voyon in his discource vpon the Catalog of the Doctors c. page 132. post medium and Crispinus in his booke of the estate of the Church page 339. ante med Preach being but a Lay● s●culer man and so wanted call●ng much lesse then could he conferre calling to others therefore both he and all his followers which discended from him were through theire want of calling (c) No man taketh the honour vnto him but he that is called of God as Aaron hebr 5 4. How shall they preach excepte they be sent Rom. 10 15. Who so entreth not in by the dore into the Sheepefould but clymeth vp an other way is a theefe Iohn 10 1. intrudors hauing no more authoritie to celebrate and administer Sacraments excepted only Baptisme in time of necessitie which (d) Baptisme by lay persons in time of necessitie is affirmed by the Fathers as witnesseth Caluin institut l. 4. c. 15. sect 20. confessing saying hereof Multis abhinc seculis adeoque ab ipso feré Ecclesiae exordio vsu receptum fuit vt in periculo mortis Laici Baptizarent si minister in tempore non adesset It is in like manner affirmed by the Lorde Archbishope of Canterburie in his defence against Carthwrite pa. 518 519. ante med many other Protestants a lay person may do then they had power to create a new world so litle is the continuance of Protestantes administration of the Word Sacraments enabled by Waldo 3 Thirdly concern●ng the Protestantes doctrine of Iustification by onely faith which is in their iudgmēt (e) Mr. Clarke in the disputation had in the Tower with Edm. Camp the 4. daies conference Arg. 1 D. iiii the soule of the Church (f) The Cofession of Bohemia in the harmonie of Confessions in English page 253. of all other points of doctrine the weightiest which saith Mr. Foxe (g) act mon. page 402. a. circa med Luther opened as being long hid before It was so vnknowne to Waldo and he so wholly affected to our Catholike doctrine of merittes and Workes which Protestants terme (h) Penrie in his booke entituled Mr. Some laid open in his colours page 29. 30. the very harte life and soule of Papistrie that he did (i) D. Humfrey in Iesuitismi part 2. rat 3. page 270 circa medium and Mr. Foxe act mon. page 628. b. fine forsake all thinges that being poore he might follow Christ and the Euang●licall perfection which our aduersaries reiect (k) Mr. Fulke against the Rhemish testament in Math. 19. sect 9. fol. 38. b. And mr Perkins in his reformed Catholicke page 241. and Caluin institut lib. 4. cap. 13. sect 13. for Popish In so much as he and his followers were a very profession of begging Friars and therfore called (l) actes and monuments page 41. b. circa medium page 629 a. ante medium the poore men of Lyons (m) Doctor Humfrey in Iesuitismi part 2. page 270 circa medium professing as D. Humfrey vrgeth a kind of monasticall life wherin they were so forward that they afterwardes (*) Vrspergenses in Chronic. Anno 1212. made means to Innocentius the third then Pope to haue their order by him confirmed but could not preuaile 4 Fourthly the Waldenses held sundry grosse errors as namely their deniall (2) See Guido and Antoninus de Waldensibus and Aeneas Siluius in his Bohemica historia de Waldensium dogmatibus And Luxemb in haer Paup de Lugduno of all iudgement to blood and (3) See Illiricus in Catal. testium veritatis page 748. prope initium of the Saboth In regard of

of all rebellion teaching (k) Osiander in epitom histor Ecclesiast centur 9. 10. 11. 12. c. page 454. fine art 15. Concil Constantien Sess 8. art 15. And Melancthon in disput de Iure magistratuum saith hereof Insanij● Wycleuus qui sensit impios nullum dominium habere And in Commentarijs ad politica Aristotelis he further saith miras tragedias excitauit Wicleuus qui contendit eos qui non habent spiritum sanctum amittere dominium colligit multas so phisticas rationes ad confirmandum hoc dogma c. recitabimus quaedam argumenta Wycleu● c. that there is no ciuill Magistrate whilest he is in mortal sinne and that (¶) Osiander in epitom centur 9. 10. 11 c. page 405 art 17. the people may at theire pleasure correct Princes when they do offend and according to this principle (l) Mr. Stowes Annales c. page 550. post med the fauourers of wycliff●s doctrine did as Mr. Stow reporteth n●●●e vp schedules vpon the Churches dores of London conteining that there was a hundreth thowsand men readye to rise against all such as could not awaie with theire sect In somuch as Sr. Iohn Ouldcastle Wycliffes cheife disciple or (m) act mon. page 268. b. fine And Mr. Stowes Annales c. page 550. post medium follower (n) Mr. Stowes Annales ibidem to whose force and witt these other trusted Burst forth into (o) Mr. Stowe vbi supra page 566. initio also his enditement of high treason is extant of record and set downe by Mr. Foxe act mon. printed 1596. pag. 529. b. where he more bouldly then aduisedly laboureth vpon surmises to discredit the said record treason against the King and (p) Mr. Stowe ibidem pag. 551. prope initium did confederate him selfe with others to fight against the King in St. Giles feelde At that time (q) Mr. Stow ibid. pag. 551. circa medium were taken fourescore men in armour of that faction And (r) Ibid. page 551 prope finem 37. of thē publikely condemned and executed And Sr. Iohn Ouldcastle him selfe being at the last taken was likewise executed in the said feilde of St. Giles at what time he was so fantasticall that at the time of his execution (s) Mr. Stow ibid. 572 fine when many honorable persons were present the last wordes he spake was to Sr. Thomas Erpingham adiuring him that if he sawe him rise from death to life againe the third day he would procure that his sect might be in quiet By all which premisses concerning Sir Iohn Ouldcastle taken from Mr. Stowes Chronicle dedicated to the now Lord Archbishope of Canterburie it seemeth that Mr Foxe was in extreme need of examples to maintaine the continuance of his visible Church when in his actes and monuments he so publickely and seriously registred this Sr. Iohn for (t) Act. mon. page 261 b. and see there the title of Ouldcastles historie and see Mr. Downeham in his treatise concerning Antichrist pag. 41. prope initium a valiant and most worthie M●rtir for the true profession of Christs Ghospell And thus much briefly to omitt much more (*) Ioachimus Vadianus a Swinglian of Zuriche de Eucharistia lib. 5. page 161. saith of Wycliffe In nonnullis faede lapsus est c. He was fowly ouerseene in sundry pointes of religion and more giuen to scoffinge and pratinge then became a sober Deuine And Pantaleon in Chronolog page 119. ante med accoūteh Wycl●ffe for an Hereticke And placing him there in his Catallogue of Heretickes saith Ioannes Wyclefius cum Lolhardis in Anglia suam haeresim predicat c. And Mathias Hoe in his tractat duo c. tract 1. de disput page 27. expresly placeth and numbreth the W●clenistes and Hussistes in the ranke of Heretickes calling them and others by him there named most monstrous monsters Also it appeareth by mr Foxe that Wicliffe was an vsuall dissembler of his faith and that to preuent daunger of trouble he did ordinarily practize the same to which purpose mr Foxe act mon. page 95. a fine saith W●cliffe being beset with troubles was forced once againe to make confession of his doctrine in which confession as occasion serued for to auoid the rigor of thinges he answered with intricate wordes c. Anno. 1381. And page 91. a. versus finem he signifieth Wicleues often recantation alledging Wicliffe saying And now againe as before also I doe reuoke make retractation c. by meanes wherof as Mr. Foxe confesseth a litle there before Wicliffe wonde him selfe out of the Bishopes snares Anno 1377. And p. 846. a. paulo post med it is testified how that Wycliffe in an epistle written by him ad Ioannem Episcopum Lincoliensem retracted his former doctrine against the Reall presence of Christes Bodie in the sacrament and in the Masse reconciling him selfe in that article to the Church of Rome and page 98. b. post med and 99. a. it appeareth that Wicliffe Anno. 1384. which was not three yeeres before his death in his epistle to Pope Vrbane doth purge him selfe to the Pope acknowledging that the Bishope of Rome is the Vicar of Christ here vpon earth with much more other like dissimulation By ●eason of which kind of practize Wicliffe so escaped the aggrauated danger of those times that as Mr. Foxe witnesseth pag. 98. a. paulo ante med He return●d agai●● to his parish of Lutte● worth wherof he was parson and quietly there saieth mr Foxe Slept in the Lord vpon St. Siluesters day ann● 1387. that might be said concerning Wycliffe and his followers wherin is shewed 1 First that imediately before his first appearing he was a Catholike Priest and no Church of Protestants then knowne to be so much as but in being 2 Secondly that after his reuolte he reteined still sundry Catholicke pointes of faith 3 Thirdly that he held sundry grosse and damnable errors 4 Fourthly and lasty that his doctrine was treasonable and his followers were notable cōuicted traitors whereupon we referre as before to your Maiesties learned iudgemēt whether that the example of Wicliffe and his followers doth enable the cōtinuance of the Protestants Churches administration of the Word and Sacraments but so much as for and since that time in which he first appeared THE LIKE IS SHEVVED OF HVSSE who liued Anno Domim 1400. and his followers SECT 5. AS concerning Iohn Husse who was brought in question (v) Symon de Voyon in his discource vpon the catallog of the doctors of Gods Church pag. 159 about the yeare 1405. litle is needfull to be saide for his chiefe trouble was for vrging communion to the lay people vnder both kindes which pointe Protestants acknowledge to be but a matter of indifferencie (x) Melancthon in centur epist theologic page 252. initio and see the protestant writers alledged and by mr Iewell not denied in his replie page 110. 109. and for his affirming

that Priests onely were wanting which she perfited by perswading the King to send to the Emperour of R●me for some Doctor c. Whervpon a certaine worthy man was made Bishope and sent to preach to the nation of the Iberianes Thendoret hist l. 1. c. 24. versus finem See also the former example of Frumentius answered in this sorte by D. Sarauia in defens tract c. contra respons Bezae c. 1. page 46. ante medium and impertinent If now our Catholicke Church be a true Church able to conferre this calling so by her (*) Whittaker contra Duraeum l. 9. page 820. saith hereof to Duraeus Fuit Lutherus vestro etiam ritu Presbiter atque Doctor c talem fuisse Suinglium Bucerum Oecolampadiū aliosque innumerabiles constat c. And see Ioannes Regius in libro Apologetico c. page 122. ante med page 121. giuen to Husse Wicliffe c. and that it was sufficient to them why then do our aduersaries so greeuously accuse maligne our said Church for false and Antichristian And if according to their doctrine the Pope be Antichrist and our Church Antichristian then followeth necessarily that which them selues therupon say namely that (d) Propositions and Principles disputed in the Vniuersitie of Geneua page 245. circa med And Mr. Gabriell Powell in his consideration of the Papistes reasons c. page 71. saith the Popish ordination is nothing els but meere prophanation c. there is no true Ecclesiasticall vocatiō in the Papacie c. And see further hereof mr Sutliffe in his answere to the Masse Priestes supplication to the 19. section And Mr. Fulke in his answere to a counterfeite Catholicke page 50. circa med saith to vs you are highly deceiued if you thinke we esteeme your offices of Bishops Priestes and Deacons any better then Lay men and you presume to much to thinke that we receiue your ordering to be lawfull And page 51. ante med he answereth giueth reason why he alloweth our Baptisme though not our orders And see Mr. Whitaker contra Duraeum l. 9. page 821. initio there is in Babilon thereby meaning our Church no holy Order or ministrie in deed no lawfull calling but a meer● vsurpation F●r it must needs to all men seeme absurd that Ch●ists Ministers shou●d receiue then spirituall power and Comission from Antichrist and then also not onely Waldo the ●ay man and all those who discended from him which is heretofore (e) heretofore tract 2. c. 2 sect 3. prope initium in them made most euident but likewise euen Husse Wicliffe and Lu●her him selfe who had no other calling but from our Church and so many other as haue afterwards claimed vnder them are destitute hitherto of all lawfull calling (f) The Protestant Lascius in proofe hereof alledgeth in the booke entituled de Russorum Muscou●tarum Tartararum religione page 23. Caluine saying quia Papae Tirannide abrupta fuit vera ordinationis series nouo subsidio nunc opus est c. atque omnimò extrao●dinarium fuit hoc munus quod Dominus nobis iniunxit c. so say they fleeing to extraordinarie calling And Beza in the Conference at Poyssie being demaunded of the calling of him selfe and his other then associates affirmed the same to be extraordinarie Hereof reade Sarau●a in defens tract contra respon Bezae page 59. fine 60. post medium 74. fine the true succession of ordination being as our aduersaries therupon affirme then broken of which needfull continuance of personall succession or calling seemeth furthermore so manifestly defectiue or wanting in the Protestants Church that euen sundry of themselues who as Sadell complaineth therat (g) Anthonie Sadell in his booke entituled de rebus grauissimis controuersis disputationes theologicae page 719. ante med saith hereof hoc ipsa rei veritas ab illis obtinuit veram atque expresso Dei verbo fundatam esse eam doctrinam quam ecclesiae nostrae amplexae sunt sed affirmāt ministros esse apud nos legitima vocatione destitutos cum non habeāt perpetuam ac visibilem ab Apostolis ad haec vsque tempora successionem c. acknowledge the doctrine which their Church doth embrace to be true and grounded vpon the expresse word of God do yet affirme the ministers with them to be destitute of lawfull calling c. In which opinion they are so resolute that Sadell did therefore write a speciall (h) The title of that treatise is de legitima vocatione Pastorum Ecclesiae reformatae aduersus eos qui in hoc tantum capite se ab Ecclesia reformata dissentire profitentur and beginneth page 719. of the booke aboue alledged treatise therof against them And thus much briefly whether Waldo Wicliffe Husse and Luther had suficient calling or not to administer the Protestant Churches word and sacramēts which if they had not thē admitting that we should for the time suppose them to haue bene full Protestantes in opiniō and also neuer to haue bene reuolted Catholicks but orig●nally professors of the Protestants Doctrine yet all th●s notwithstanding there appeareth by reason of their foresaid alledged onely want of true ordination a con●essed and vnanswerable defecte or downefall for so many hundreth yeares last past of theire Churches administration of the word and sacramēts without which as them selues haue (i) See heretofore tract 2. c. 2. sect 1. at x. y. z. heretofore confessed frō the scriptures it were no Church THAT THE EXAMPLES OF BERTRAM Berengarius others who liued before Waldo are also insufficient to answere in this behalfe for their times SECT 7. HAVING spoken thus fully of Waldo Wycliffe and Husse in whom remained our aduersairies greatest confidence it shal be lesse needfull to make this point more manifest as yet in the other seuerall ages precedent to theire times as well for that thus much onely may suffice as haue bene already said of the Protestants foresaide defection though but during the seuerall times or ages of Waldo Wycliffe Husse or any of them concerning their Churches then euident want of administration of the worde and Sacraments which acording to their former (*) See heretofore tract 2. c. 2. sect 1. at t. v. and ibid. x. y. z. b. c. confessiō must euermore continue and be in the true Church as also for that their like manifest defect euen also in those other precedent ages is by our learned aduersaries no lesse thē very plainely acknowledged To ad yet somwhat to that which hath bene (k) See heretofore tract 2. c. 1. sect 4. heretofore most fullie confessed in that behalfe the other learned Protestants such as are more wary and sparing what to saie or write thereof do acknowledge that (l) Mr. Fulke in his answere to a counterfait Catholicke page 36. prope initium and Mr. Gabriel Powell in his Consideration of the Papistes reasons c. page 105. fine saieth I graunt that from the yeare

made the world for the time subiect to such grosse illusion And thus much briefly to shew that our English Protestants may in no sorte challenge Luther to haue bene so much as but a member of their Church THAT ALSO DVRING THE 20 YEERES next before Luther which are yet in memory of this present age no example can be alledged of the Protestants but only of the Catholicke Churches administratiō of the word Sacramēts SECT 11. BVT admitting now for the time that Luther had bene a member of the Protestants Church we will as now yet further shew that his example is for all that of no force to proue a continuance of their Churches administration of the word and sacraments but so much as for that onely age in which he liued Wherein to make the equitie of this our Apologie as yet more perspicuous we will discend from all those foresaide seuerall ages before spoken of and will as now make examination but of one onely peculier time and that most euident as being yet within the memorie of this present age namely the twentie yeares that were next before Luthers first writinge against the Pope which happenned Anno Domini 1520. (f) Act. mon. pag. 402. 〈◊〉 the late and fresh occurrants whereof concerning the matter now in question can not be either mistaken or forgotten at the least not in all countries where Christian religion was professed And for so much as our aduersaries do collect and graunt from the scriptures that (g) Mr. Fulke against Heskins Sanders c. pag 536. paulo post med Pastors and Doctors must be in the Church till the end of the world euen (h) Mr. Fulke vbi supra pag. 569. initio from Christes time to Luthers age that they shall (i) Mr. Fulke in his answere to a countefeit Catholicke page 11. initio alwaies resist all false opinions (k) Mr. Fulke ibid. page 92. ante med with open reprehension that (l) Mr. Deering vpon the Hebrues in c. 2. vers 12. lectur 10. circa med c. 3. lectur 12. fine the religion being of God no feare of man shall keepe them backe that therefore (m) The Puritans words alledged in the Bishops of London Suruey of the holy pretended discipline pa. 44● circa med the ministrie of the word and sacraments are in absolute degree of necessitie to saluation that (n) Mr. Willet in his sinopsis pag. 71. fine it is no longer a true Church then it hath these markes and that (o) Mr. Willet vbi supra pag 69. fine the onely absence of them doth make a nulletie of the Church that also (p) Hiperius in method theolog siue loc comun l. 3. pag. 548. ante med 552. prope finem these signes must be externall and visible that men may knowe where the true Church is and to which company they ought to adhere that lastly (q) Mr. Whitgiftes defence c. pag. 465. post med the Church of Christ is dispersed through the whole worlde cannot now be shut vp in one Kingdome All which hath bene (r) See before tract 2. c. 2. sect 1. heretofore more specially and at large declared out of our aduersaries owne writings we do here as now insist and as our aduersaries (s) The Deuines of Heidel berg in prefat in Protocollum Frankentalēse say to the Anabaptistes Sivos Ecclesia Dei sitis sequetur Deum sine sine populo Ecclesia fuisse c. nam si vel omnes historias perlegatis nullum ab exordio mundi populum inuenietis qui confessionem fidei vestrae similem habuerit quia verò neque deus a principio fine populo Ecclesia neque sempiternus ille Rex Iesus Christus sine regno fuit vestra autem Congregatio primū Anno. 1522. caepit sequitur vos veram Dei Ecclesiam atque populum esse non posse So plainely do our aduersaries vrge the Anabaptistes to proue the continuance of their Church And Beza in epist theologic ep 16. and after the Geneua Print of Anno. 1573. pag. 127. paulo ante med vrgeth vpon the same ground saying Si verum est eorum dogma c. vbi tandem fuerit vnquam Ecclesia ipsos ostendere iub camus quum a pro pagato Euangelio facile fit demonstrare nullum vnquam eiusmodi quicquam sensisse quin perpetuò Ecclesiae consensu fuerit damnatus did vpon this ground charge and prouoke the Anabaptistes so we in like manner charge them demanding what pastors Doctors of their Church did accordingly impugne false doctrine preach the word and administer their sacraments and in what seuerall nations were the same visible and externall but during euen those foresaid xx yeares next before Luther where might any man as then haue performed Christs cōmandemēt of (t) Math. 18 17. tell the Church which Mr. Carthwright confesseth to be (v) Mr. Carthwrite in Mr. Whitgifts defence pag. 635. fine necessarie and perpetuall or whereas then might a man haue found so much as any one of those (2) Foxe in Apocall c. 12. page 349. post med saith Scio ac fateor non adeo omnes terrae angulos sua seductione imposterem Demonem corripuisse quin Ecclesia semper habeat aliquot milia c. quae nunquam incuruauerunt genua ad Baal vide Whitaker de Ecclesia contra Bellarminum page 161. fine contra Dureum l. 3. pag. 259. fine thousandes or of that (3) Bullenger in Apocall serm 62. initio fol. 200. a. fine b. initio saith By the description of the Romish tyrrannie and reigne of Antichrist it should seeme that the Church and preaching of the ghospell had bene vtterly l●st c. He declareth therfore by a most excellent vision how Christ shall notwithstanding c. haue his Church cottinually and that right famouse Church not obscure but right famouse which as Mr. Foxe Mr. Whittaker Bullenger do collect from the scriptures were euermore to cōtinue euen during the greatest persecution and seducing by Antichrist Luther him selfe imediatly before his first preaching against the Pope was not a professed mēber of any Chur●h of Protestants thē known to be in being but was a knowne Catholicke euen (x) Simon de Voyon in his discource vpon the Catallog c. pag. 180. an Augustine Friar and as him selfe protesteth (y) Luther saieth hereof Casu non volūtate in illas turbas incidi Deū ipsum testor Witnesse hereof his owne schollers Timotheus Kirchmeru● in his thesaurus c. in epist nuncupatoria versus finem and Iacebus Andreas in confut disput Ioan. Iacob Grinaei c. pag. 312. He fell into the troubles or as he tearmeth it (*) Luther in loc commun Clasi 4. pag. 58. paulo ante med saith Initio Euangelij cum Deus in hanc vt sic votem factionem preter meam voluntatem per mirabiles occasiones me inuolueret faction of

steed thereof is thereby vnderstood the last 1260. yeares before Luther by Mr. Napeir vpon the reuelations Proposition 15 pa. 22. 23. 24. By Mr. Brocard vpon the reuiatiō fol. 110. a. and by Master Gifford vpon the reuelat pag. 890. post med was the first that diswaded Luther from further saying of Masse If now then that Luther him selfe was at first a Catholicke and our aduersaries in steed of plaine instance or example to be giuen of their Churches impugning of errors of her Pastors Doctors administratiō of the word and sacraments during but the foresaide 20. yeeres next before Luther do answere vs that they were as then persecuted we replie to them from them selues aswel that no persecution of man can frustrate the foresaid ordināce of god made to his Church in this behalfe as also that persecutiō (¶) See heretofore tract 2. c. 2 sect 8. at o. p. maketh her most knowne and therfore we aske as before who these were that were as then so persecuted if they say that for feare of persecution they durst not professe theire faith and so escaped vnknowne we againe tell them from themselues that (⁋) See heretofore tract 2. c. 2. sect 11. 1. l. p. q. r therfore they were not as then the true Church And we vrge yet further that the feare of persecutiō could be no such let to them after that sundry common wealthes and Magistrates had vndertaken the publique profession defence of Luthers doctrine but that as then at the least if any such had bene in being they might safelie haue shewed them selues and ioyned in comunion with Luther If lastly they say that their Pastors and Doctors administration of the word and sacraments were as then visible and knowne and that now since all testimonie thereof is suppressed to omit what hath bene (*) See heretofore tract 2. c. 2. sect 9. already sufficiently said against this and to admit also that all our Catholicke writers should so strangely haue passed them onely ouer in silence remembring all others as the Annabaptistes Swenefeldians c. why yet should Luther Zuinglius and the other Protestant writers forbeare to mention them the cause we take to be euident and onely for that during the foresaide 20. yeares before Luther they were not knowne to be so much as but in being in any one nation of the world which thing is in our opinion not obscurelye graunted rather then signified by our learned aduersaries them selues To this end our learned aduersaries Ioannes Regius acknowledgeth that the Church was euen thē (¶) Ioannes Regius being vrged in this kind doth in his liber apologeticus c. pag. 176. circa post med answere therto saying Negas Lutherum suae fidei caetum inuenisse c. dico fuisse ante Lutherum verae religionis qui cum Luthero per omni● consentiret caetum ecclesi●sticum But coming to answere where this Congregation w●s to be then found he hath no other refuge but saith there that it was a ●ontificijs non agnitus nec propter tyrannidē pontificiam visibiliter fortassis ostendi non potuerit iucoque quādo vrgent Iesuitae vt Lutherus verae religionis asse clam Ecclesiam ostendat c. volunt vt Lutherus oppositum in adiecto demonstret inuisibile visibile probet c. interim tamen absurdum est ita argumentari haec res ab alijs non agnoscitur nec potest etiam videri aut demonstrari ideoque non est in rerum n●tura c. So plainely doth he being vrged to particulers acknowledge his pretended Congregation at Luthers coming to haue bene then inuisible and not able to be shewed inuisibl● and could not be shewed and Mr. Iewell affirmeth accordingly that (e) Mr. Iewell in his Aplogie of the Church of England part 4. c. 4. diuision 2. and in his defence of the Apologie printed Anno 1571. pag. 426 prope finem the truth was vnknowne at that time vnheard of when Martine Luther and Hulderi●h Zuinglius first came vnto the knowledge and preaching of the Gospell Mr. Parkines s●ith in like manner (*) Mr. Parkins in his exposition vpon the Creed pag. 400. And Caluin in his booke of Epistles printed Hannouiae 1597. ep 141. pag. 273. paulo post med saith accordingly Ad●urdum est postquam discessionem a toto mundo facere coacti sumus inter ipsa principia alios ab alijs dissilire And Daniel Chamierus in his epist Iesuitic part altera printed Geneuae 1601. pag. 49. saith hereof Arianorū venenū non portiunculā quādā fed pené totum orbem contaminauerat c. In ea nos tempora deuinimus quae etiam excedent Ariani furoris co●fusionem non portiunculam vnam aut alteram error occupauit sed totum ●orpus Apostasia auertit a Christo we say that before the daies of Luther for the space of many hundreth yeares an vniuersall apostasie ouerspread the wholle face of the earth and that our Church was not then visible to the world in so much as Bucer doth therfore call Luther (f) Primum Aposiolum purioris Euangelij Bucer in epist Anno. 36. ad Episcopum Hereford vide Conradum Schlusselburg in theolog Caluinistarum l. 2 fol. 17. a. initio the first Apostle of the reformed doctrine whose vocation said our aduersaries was by reason of the then generall defection of a●l protestant Pastors (*) See before tract 2. c. 2. sect 10. fine at q. r. immediate and extraordinarie the cource of (¶) Bez● ep 5. Al●m●nno paulo post initium Ordinarie vocation being then no where extant And the Lutheranes do affirme it (g) Conrad Schlustelburg ibid. l. 2. fol. 130. b. versus finem impudencie to say that many learned m●n in Germanie before Luther did h●uld the D●ctrine of the Gospell And an other of them further saith Si antecessores Lutherus in officio habuisset orthodoxos c. (h) Georgius Milius in Augustan confess explicat art 7. de Ecclesia pag. 137. If there had bene right beleuers that went b●fore Lu●her in his office c. there had then bene no nede of a Lutheraine reformation (i) Georgius Miluis ibid pag. 138. th●refore saith he we say that Luther was raised vp diuinitus extra ordinem by Gods speciall appointment and extraordinarily And an other Lutherane writer affirmeth it (k) Benedict Morgenstern tract de Ecclesia pag. 145. ridiculouse to thinke that in the time b●fore Lu●h●r any had the puritie of Doctrine and that Luther should receiue it from them and not they from Luther consideri●g saith he it is manifest to the whole Christian worlde that before Luthers time all Churches were ouerwhelmed with more then Cymeriane darkenes And that Luther was diuinely raised vp to discouer the same and to restore the light of true Doctrine So plainely do our aduersaries them selues in steed of instance or example to be geuen acknowledge to the contrary the vtter defection

and want of their Churches Pastors and Doctors of administration of the Word and Sacraments for and during the age next before Luther wherevnto we further add that the Protestants Doctrine of Iustification by onely faith which them selues affirme to be (l) Mr. Charke in the Tower disputation the fourth daies conference Arg. 1. d●nii the So●l● of the Church (m) Mr. Foxe act mon. pag. 402. a. circa medium the onely principall ●●gine of saluation and (n) The Confession of Bohemia in the Harmony of Confessions pag. 253. ante medium of all ●h●r p●ints of Doctrine the chiefest and weightiest was so vnknowne in the age before Luther that the contrary Doctrine of Iustification by M●rrit and Workes which Protestants terme (o) Mr. Penrie in the booke entituled Mr. Some laid open in his colours page 29 30. the very hart life and soule of Poperie was defended not onely by the (p) See this heretofore for the Waldenses at pag. 90. i. l. and for Wicliffe at pag. 97. f. for Husse at pag. 101. g. Waldenses Wycl●ffe and Husse but also by all other nearer Luthers time in so much that Mr. Foxe hauing spoken of the t●mes next before Lut●er and of the learned writers then liuing concludeth onely of Luther that (q) Act. mon. pag. 402 a. circa med and the Deuines of the Confession of Augusta alledged by Luc. Osiander in epitom hist ecclesiast centur 16. pag. 157. paulo ante med confesse the same likewise saying Cum igitur doctrina de fide quam oportet in Ecclesia praecipuam esse tam di● tacuerit ignota quemadmodū fateri omnes necesse est c. he gaue the str●ak● and pluckte downe the f●undation of our Catholicke faith and all by opening one vaine l●ng hid before which is our free Iustification by our faith onely in Christ so plainely also by Mr. Foxe his confession was this chiefe article of the Protestants faith vnknowne and vnheard of during the age next before Luther And thus much briefely to shewe that whereas it is euident and confessed from the Scriptures that the true Churches pastors her administration of the Word and Sacraments must euermore continew yet our aduersaries Church religion administration of of the Word and Sac●aments are not knowne so much as but to haue beene in being during the xx yeares next before Luther Whereupon we are to resist and say to them as did the ancient (*) Tertulian in libro de praescript saith Qui est is vos vnde est quando venistis vbi tā diu latuistis and Augustine l. 3. de Baptismo contr Don. c. 2. saith Vnde ergo donatus apparuit de qua terra germinauit ex quo mari emersit de quo coelo cecidit And Aug. de Vtilit Cred. c. 14. saith to the Manichees vos autem tam pauci tam turbulēti tam novi nemini dubiū est quoniam nihil dignum auctoritate proferetis Optatus l. 2. contra Parmenianum saith Vestrae Cathedrae originem ostendite qui vobis vultis sanctam Ecclesiam vendicare and Hillarie l. 6. de Trinitate ante med saith tardè mihi hos Pijssimos doctores aetas nunc huius seculi protulit c. and Hierom contra Luciferianos in fine saith ex hoc ipso quod posterius instituti sunt eos se esse indicāt quos futuros apostolus praenūciauit Fathers in like manner to the Heretickes of their times and as did (¶) Luther in Lutheri Loc. Comun class 5 c. 15. pag. 50. ante med saith of the Sacramētaries Sine nobis ante nos nihil erant ne hiscere quidem audebant nunc nostra victoria inflati in nos vertunt impetum Luther him selfe vpon this like ground to our aduersaries the Sacramentaries A FVRTHER DEMONSTRATION Otherwise of the Protestant Churches defection SECT 12. BVT forbearing as now further to prosecute the foresaid euident defection of the Protestantes Church her administration of the Word and Sacraments by reason of the heretofore alledged disparetie or rather contrarietie in doctrine betweene our now Protestants and the foresaid examples of Waldo Wicliffe Husse Luther c. all those other whom our aduersaries haue as hath bene (2) See heretofore for Waldo tract 2. c. 2. sect 3 for Wicliffe sect 4. for Husse sect 5. for Luther sect 10. and for others see sect 7. heretofore perticulerly proued iniustlie pretended to be of their Church we will as yet in further proofe otherwise of their Churches no lesse vnanswerable defection but briefelie put youre MAIESTIE in minde of one onely other point worthye of a much more laboured discource the which being hereby but signified rather then at large entreated of we do neuerthelesse ●n full confidence of the manifest and vnanswerable clearenes therof presume humblie to offer vnto your HIGHNES more retired and seriouse consideration We haue heretofore shewed how that supposing Waldo had bin a Protestāt yet was he before his first preaching against the Pope originally a knowne and professed member of our Catholicke Church and the like we haue discouered in Berengarius Peter Bruis Wycliffe Husse Luther c. all whose followers as namely the Berengarians Waldenses Wy●leuistes Hussi●s Lutheranes ● are in their forenamed seue all Sectmasters from whome they are knowne to haue discended most plainely reduc●d to a knowne Catholicke begin ng As were in like manner the A●r●ans Dona●ist s N●st●rians knowne to haue had their like first begining in Catholickes as in A●ius D●natus N●●torius who all together with Berengarius Waldo Wy liffe Husse Luther c. were professed members of our Catholicke Church before such time as they (3) 1. Ioh. 2 19. went forth from vs the peculier marke or stig●a wherewith the (4) 1. Ioh. ● 19. It is said of heretickes they went out from vs. And Act. 15 24. it is likewise said of them Certaine that went forth frō vs And Act. 20 30. Out of your owne selues shall arise men speaking perverse things in so mu●h as our Sauiour forwarneth vs against this departure or going out saying If therefore they shall say vnto you behold he is in the desert goe you not forth Mat. 24 26. See S. Austen vpon these words heretofore tract 2. c. 2. sect 1. in the margēt at the figure 2. Scriptures (5) Optatus lib. 1. saith herevpon against the Donatistes vidēdum est quis in radice cum toto orbe manserit quis foras exterit quis cathedram sederit alteram quae ante non fuerat c. And S. Augustine tom 8. in Psalm 106. saith quid est ergo seduxit eos dimisit eos in inu●o non in via quomodo enim in via homines qui partem tenent totum relinqunt quomodo in via quae est ergo via Aut vbi agnoscitur via Deus inquit m●sereatur nostri ● vt agn●scamus in terra vtam tuam in qua terra in

omnibus gentibus salutare tuum vtique t●les vt min●antur vt pauci fi●nt hinc exeunt A multitudine vnitatis omnes exierūt si●ut P●ulo ante cōmemoraui dictū de illis ex nobis exierunt c. And Aug. tr● 3. in ep Io● saith omnes Haeretici omnes Schismat ex nobis exierūt id est ex ecl exeūt Fathers and (6) See M. Al●s●n in h●s confutaciō of Brow●●s●●e pag. 1. initio Protestants doe not without euident reason note the sectemasters of their times For seeing that truth is auncient to heresie the which is but a deniall of some part of the truth then in being and professed and that the summe of our Christian religiō was accordingly at first established and continued in and by the Apostles (7) See M. B●●sons words alledged heretofore tract 2. c. 2. sect 6. at z. a. and their Successors There neuer (*) This is evidently seene in the examples of Arius Novatus Donatus c. And all other Arch heretikes or sect-masters of every age neither can our adversaries give any one example to the contrarie was therefore nor possiblie could bee any Arch Hereticke or sectmaister who d●d not by his the secōdary Innovatiō in denial of some truth deuide himselfe from the Catholike Churches the visible societie whervpon as it followeth by necessary sequele that it sufficeth not our adversaries to affirme with such needy begging of the thing in questiō no lesse peremptory assuming iudgemēt vnder pretēce of that forbiddē (¶) 2. Peter 1. private interpretation wh●ch (8) Hereof see heretofore tract 2. cap. 1. initio in the margent at the letter p. q. themselues do frame vpon the Scriptures that we haue departed fr●m God vnlesse withall they can shewe from what other knowne companie of Christian to vs then elder in being we did devide our selves betaking v● so thereby into an other singuler societie as did in their several times W●l●● Wi●li●e Husse Luther Calvin c. in their departing from our Catholike church the like whereof to haue hapned by any such departure made by our Church f om any other knowne ●ompay of Christ ans to it then ancient and in being in any age or nation since the Apostles times our learned adversaries are (⁋) Wheras the proof hereof lieth on our adversaries part their most materiall obiections in this behalfe are examined answered heretofore tract 1. sect 7. the contrarie by vs proved tract 1. sect 8. not able to shew a thing in regard of the reason befo●e alleaged worthy of all speciall due observation So likewise which is no lesse worthie also to be observed although it be manifest groūded that the true Church must vndoubtedly evermore (9) Hereof see hereafter tract 2. cap. 2. sect 13. initio in the margēt at the letter r. continue with (10) Hereof see heretofore tract 2. ca. 2. sect 1. lit t●● x. y. Z. b. c. administration of the Word and Sacrament Yet to avoide the example of the Primitiue Church being as made by our adversaries vnworthily questionable by vs heretofore even from themselues sufficiently (11) Concerning testimonies of our n●w Catholike doctrine to have beene taught in the Primitive Church see heretofore tract 1. sect 2. 3. tra 2. c. 1. sect 3. cleared and withall to restra●ne thē to an other no lesse large certaine knowne time they are not able to name frō Anno Dom. 700. for other 700. yeeres then next after following a time long larg enough so much as but any one (*) The Waldenses Wicle●●stes H●ssites Lutherans admitting they were all Protestants the contrarie wherof is heretofore prooved are yet in their forenamed severall sect-masters as are also the Calvinistes in Calvine reduced to a Catholike beginning And as for other examples our adversaries cāno● giue instance so much as of any one other man whom they can pretend to haue been originally a Protestant and not a Catholike And if they flee to the examples of such other as themselues cannot but acknowledge for confessed heretikes it is ridiculously impertinent and sheweth their full conviction herein other persō living during any part of althat time in any one nation of the earth whom they can but with any coulor pretend to haue beene at first no Catholike but originally a Protestant As we haue before said Waldo Wicliue Husse Luther Caluin c. from whom haue sprong the Waldenses Wiclevistes Hussites Lutherans Caluinistes c. were each of them originally Catholickes as likwise were for former times Arius Nouatus Pelagius Nestorius c. Let now our aduersaries peruse though most carefully the seuerall writings of their own most painful writers in this behalf as n●mely M. Fox his Acts monuments Il iricus his Catalogus testium veritatis Simon de voyon his Discourse vpon the Catal●gue of the Doctors of Gods Church also the century writers of Magdeburge and they shall not in all or any of them or in any other find instance or example of any one other man named to the contrarie of that which wee now vrge if then our learned adversaries be not able to giue vs neither instance of any departure made by our Church frō any other knowne cōpany of Christians to it then ancient and in being yet neither also example as it is before required during the time before limited so much as but of any one man liuing in any part of the world who was at first no Catholike but originally a Protestant If these things be plaine evident not to be excepted against by our learned adversaries what then can be more cleere to proove a manifest interruption and discontinuance of their Churches Pastors adminstration of the Word Sacraments that as our Religion is vndoudtedly that (12) Math. 13 24. Good seede which Christ the good husband man first Sowed in his field So also their aduerse doctrines are those forewarned (13) Math. 13 25. tares which the enemie afterwards came and s●wed among the Wheate went his way And thus much concerning the Protestants apparent defection of their Churches Pastors administration of the Word and Sacraments THAT THEREFORE PROTESTANTES for preseruation of Christs Church in being doe acknowledge th● Catholick● Church to haue bin the tru● Church and the Religion thereof for sufficient to Salvation SECT 13. WHICH sai●le defection or wante of their Churches Pastors administratiō of the Word and Sacramentes carrieth with it such an evident scandall or rather scroople by reason of the confessed doctrine to the contrarie of all men con●erning the true Churc● which according to (r) M. Whitaker against M. Raynoldes in his answere to the preface pag. 33. saith Wee beleeue to the comforte of our soules that Christs Church hath continued and neuer shall faile so long as the world endureth we accompt it a prophane heresie to teach otherwise And the same is yet

paulo ante medium By Haukes Act. Mon. pag. 1150. b. initio and 1151. a. circa medium By Melancthon in concilijs theologicis pag. 628. By Peter Martyr in his discourse hereof recited in Melancthons foresaid treatise of Consil theolog pag. 634. 635. By Martine Bucer alledged ibidem pag. 632. and 633. and 634. By Iohn Caluine alledged ibidem pag. 635. fine and 636. and by the Divines of Germanie alledged by Sleydane in his Comentaries Englished lib. 7. fol. 87. a. circa medium writers is neverthelesse iudged in vs a kind of froward and superfluous remorse and accordingly taxed with a confiscation or waist of our goods and yearely revenue wherevnto might be added our sundry other losses contumelies imprisonments and publike disgraces heretofore susteined whereat though we doe all mourning plaine yet complaine we will not THE PROTESTANTS OBIECTION OF Catholickes disloyaltie retorted vpon themselues SECT 2. AND for somuch as sundry of our vncharitable aduersaries who are nothing moued with our foresaid calamities do out of their inueterate and implacable hatred daily seeke to auert from vs your HIGHNES most gratious and Princely dispositiō inclined otherwise to commiserat all such as are afflicted and do therefore to make vs more odious often inculcate the doctrine wherewith certaine our writers are charged concerning the Popes vndertaking in some cases to despose Princes pretending with all what greate danger may at last hence ensue when by reason of your Maiesties mercie in the meane time to vs extēded our estats shall be bettered number increased Vouchsafeth your HIGHNES before we enter into petition for our selues graciously to weigh with equall consideration that which herevnto wee shall alledge aswell cōcerning our adversaries who thus charge vs as in answere for our selues that are so charged First then concerning our aduersaries wee say that they in their thus vrging or but remembring of this point against vs doe of all others shewe themselues most indiscreetely malicious for quis tulerit grachum de seditione loquentem c. or how can it be decorum in any to charge others with imputation of that wherin themselues are further chargeable And although we for our partes doe altogether dislike all acerbitie and gall of in vectiue writing being yet thus provoked to such iust and necessarie recrimination as our owne defence and safetie requireth we say from thēselues as followeth 1 First concerning the Lutheranes doth not Sleydane Luthers owne Scholler make full reporte of the seditious doctrine of the Divines of Magdenburge maintaining and publiquelie (d) In Sleydane in English hist l. 22. fol. 345. a circa medium the Divines of Magdenburg thus teach thereof If it so fortune that the Magistrate passe the boundes of his authority and commaund any thing that is wicked c. If hee attempte any force he should be res●sted c. and seeing the case standeth t●us there can no rebellion of right be obiected vnto vs. And ibidē fol. 345. b. initio It is further said The Min●sters of the Church set forth a writing wherein they recite the confession of their Doctrine and declare how it is lawfull for the inferior Magistrate to defend himselfe against the the superior compelling him to forsake the truth teaching in defence of their rebellion that in case of religion it was lawful for subiects even with force to resist the Prin●e doth not Chitraeus a learned Lutheraine (e) Chitraeus in Chronic. Anno 1593. 1594. pag. 74. fine and 75. saith hereof tandem rex flecti se sibique persuadere passus est vt assentiretur se religionem cultum Dei in verbo Dei Augustana confessione comprehensum c. solam in regno conseruare ac tueri nec templa in vrbibus vlla alteri quam Augustinae confessionis reli●ioni destinare velle nec aditum in senatum regni vel ad vlla r●gni officia publica alijs quam Augustinae confessionis doctrinam retinentibus concedi debere regem ve●o ip●um ad suae religionis Pontificiae exercitium sacellis arrium in quibus habitabit contentum fore c. repo t how the King of Suethland being a Catholike was by hi● subiects the Lutheraines vrged to assēt to the de●ree that no Catholike should beare any of●ice in that kingdome and that the King should content himselfe with his Catholike service to be Celebrated only in his own private Chappell was not the force attempted by the Germaines (*) Of the Germaines insurrection against their Emperour see further hereafter in this tract in the margent at the figure 4. against thei● Emperour in defence of their Lutherane religion so publiquel● m●de knowne to the world with lamentable effus●on of much Christian blood throughout Germany as that the same is mu●h more wort●ie o● pittie t●en reme●bran e Se●o●dl● concerning t●e Cal●iniste● doth not Caluine him selfe teach hereof that (f) Calvine in Dan. c. b. vers 22.25 saith abdica●t se potestate terreni Principes dum insurgunt contra Deum immo indigni sunt quicenscantur in hominū numero potius ergo conspuere oportet in illorū capita quā illis parere c. ear●hly Prin●es doe be●eaue h●m selue o● auth●ritie when they erect thems lues against God yea that they are vnworthie to b● accompted in the number of men and therefore we must rather spitt vpon their faces then obeie them c. doth not S●inglius likewise say (g) Suinglius lib. 4. epistolarum Suinglij oecolampad epist Cunhardo Somio Symperto c. pag. 868. post medium pag. 869. saith Promittendum est Caesari officium debitum si modo fidem nobis permittat illibatam c. Romanum Imperium imò quodque Imperium vbi religionem sinceram opprimere ceperit nos illud negligentes patimur iam negatae aut contemptae religionis non minus rei erimus quam illi ipsi oppressores exemplum est apud Hieremiam 15. vbi exterminium cominatur Deus Israeli quod Manastem permisissent impunè esse pessimum due l●ial●ie is to be promised to Ces●r i● so that he p r●nt to vs our rel gio in violabl● if the romaine Empire or what ●●her souerai n● s●euer should opresse the sincere religion and we n●gligently further the same we shal be charged with contempte no less● then the oppressors thereof them s●lues whereo● ●aith he abusing therein ●he Scriptures most g●o●ely we haue an example in the 15. of Ieremie wher the distruction of the Pe●pl● is proph●sied for that they suffred their Kings Ma●●ss s ●e●●g vngodly to be vnpunished And doth he not aduise to haue this Doctrine priuately with respect (h) Ibidem pag. 869. post medium Prudenter igitur ac paulatim agēda sunt huiusmodi atque cum paucis quibus credere possis quae ardua sunt Co●municated vnto certeine chiefe pe●sons of credit did not also the Caluinists of Embden as a brother of t●e●r o●ne (i) Gerhardus Giesekenius

most ●orthie honorable and able instrumēt most instantly vrgeth requireth it CONCERNING THE EVIDENT INCERtainety disagreement of Protestants in their faith and the reason particuler examples thereof with a like humble Petition therevpon for disputation SECT 7. AND now lastly for so much as our learned adversaries do hould 1 First that cōcerning matter of faith they (q) M. W llet in his Synopsis pag. 38. initio saith the Scripture is not one of the meanes but the sole whole only means to work faith are to beleeue nothing for certaine but the holy Scriptures onely 2 Secondly that (r) M. D. Raynolds in his Conference with Harte pag 68. ante medium it is not the shewe but the sence of the wordes of Scripture that must decide controversies and that herein the Scripture doth not (*) M. Hooker in his Ecclesiasticall Policie lib. 2. pag. 116. paulo ante medium saith the Scripture could not teach vs the thinges that are of God vnlesse we did credit mē who haue taught vs that the word● of Scripture do signifie those thinges instruct them of it selfe but only by certaine (s) M.D. Whitaker de Sacra Scriptura pag. 521. circa medium saith nam quādo Scriptura nō habet vivam vocem quam audiamus vtenuum est quibusdam medijs quibus in vestigamus quid sit ● nsus quae mens Scripturarum And in his book de Ecclesi● cōtra Bellarminum cōtrou 2. quaest 4. pag. 221. ante med demaunding of vs if we affirme the Church to interpret the Scripture without meanes saith Si sine medijs dixerunt est Anabaptisticum meanes on their behalfe to be observed 3 Thirdly that these means are affirmed to be their (t) M. D. Raynolds in his conference pag. 83. 84. 92. 98. 99. and M. Whitaker de Sacra Scriptura pag. 521. 522. 523. reeding thereof their conf●rences of places their weying of the circumstāces of the text their skill in the tongues their dilig●nce prayer and such like in which if they erre they do also thereby erre in the r vnderstanding of the Scriptures 4 Fourthly that these being actiōs on their behal●e are but humane indeavours such wherein every man w●thout extraordinarie priviledge from God is subiect to (u) Lubbertus de Principijs Christian dog pag. 563. initio saith of the le●r●●d interpreters Hos omnes vt interpretando errare poste ostendimus ita etiam in iudicando errare posse asserimus And Hierome Zanchius de Sacra Scriptura pag. 411. fine 412. initio saith of thē cum Iudicio eos audiamus p●rsu si eos esse homines potu●ss● ac poste errare error oversight mans infirmitie all his prayer and possible diligence notwithstanding 5 Fifthly that in full demonstration hereof aswell Martine (x) M. Bridge in his defence o● the Government c. pag. 559. M. Perkines in his foure treatizes tract How to applie Gods word c. s●ct 10. initi● Luther whom themselues acknowledge to be (y) Apolog. Angl. part 4. c 4.2 a man sent of God to lighten the world (z) F●x● in his Actes Monuments pag. 416. a. initio the H●lias cond●ctor and chariot of Israell whose calling they thinke (a) Aretius Loc. Comun loc 63. pag. 198. circa medium And Danaeus in Isagog Christian part 4. lib. 2. pag. 36. initio extraordinarie and specia●ly (b) The booke entituled Antic●r●stus sive Progn●sti● finis mundi pag. 12. 13. 86. fine And Schluse burg in Cai●● Haeret. lib. 13 vit pag. 314 and 316 fine foreshewed the Scriptures since foretold in like manner by (c) Act. M●n pag. 399. b. initio and 〈◊〉 in Ap●ca● pag. 324. s●ndry Prophecie that went of him himselfe being furthermore affirmed to be (d) ●leydane in Engli●● 101. 222. b. paulo post medium and see the margent there a Prophet and most assured and (e) Luther adversus falso nominatum Ecclesiasticū statum saith scire vos volo quod in posterum non amplius vos hoc honore dignabor vt sinam vel vos vel ipsos angelos de coelo de mea doctrina iudicare c. nec volo meā doctrinam à quoquam iudicari atque adeò ne ab angelis quidem cum enim certus de●ea sim per eam quoque vester angelorum iudex esse volo certaine of this doctrine and likewise (f) M. Whitguift in his defence of the answere to the admonition pag. 201 circa med And M. Sparke in his answere to M. Iohn d' Albines pag. 107. initio Calvine (g) M. D. Sutclyffe and D. Sarauia haue writē whole treatizes hereof against Beza Beza (h) In M. Whitguifts defence c. pag. 522. initio M. Cartwright saith Bucer though otherwise very learned hath grosse absurdities Bucer c. and sundrie of the (i) M.D. Fulke in his answere to a coūterfeite Catholike pag. 35. 87. Gomarus in speculo verae Ecclesiae Christi pa. 93. 94 auncient Fathers and Generall (k) M. Fulke ibidem pag. 89. 90. and M. Willet in his Synopsis pag. 92. Councels are accordingly affirmed to haue erred notwithstanding all their prayer and possible diligence in conferring the Scriptures As also it is further taught that even (l) M. Fulke vbi supra pag. 86. fine the whole Church millitant may erre altogether as every part thereof These being the confessed grounds and principles of our adversaries doctrine they do appeare to be no other but as it were lincked chaines or naked convections of vnavoidable incertainetie and being such can therefore afford to our adversaries not assured knowledge or certainty of faith (⁋) M. Whitaker de Ecclesia contra Bellarminum controu 2. quaest 4. pag. 221. paulo post med saith hereof qualia illa media sunt talem ipsam interpretationē este necesse est at media interpretandi loca obscura sunt incerta dubia ambigua ergo fieri non potest quin ipsa etiam interpretatio incerta sit si incerta tunc esse potest falsa c. But according to the nature of the●se●ues a necessarie doubtfulnes and incertaintie of opinion for albeit that the Scriptures be in themselues certa●ne infallible and free from er●or yet what can this pretēce thereof availe to free our adversaries frō incertaintie seing it is euident by them cōfessed that the Scriptures instruct them not otherwise thē by the foresaid meanes on their behalfe to be obserued that their obseruation of those meanes is but humaine subiect to error and that accordingly Luther many other notwithstanding all their diligent and careful observation of the saide meanes haue grievousely erred even in those points wherof they thought themselues so cleerely certaine that sundrie of them haue not doubted to testifie the same with their blood and yet indeed were therein as our adversaries confesse but incertaine and deceiued as also

c. placed there before in the beginning of his booke reciteth in particuler three and thirtie severall pointes of doctrine in question betweene the Lutheraines whom he defendeth and the Calvinists against whom hee there writeth at large in every of the saide questions As also Luke Osiander a learned Protestant who of late writte a speciall treatrize hereof entituled Enchiridion contro versiarum quas Augustinae Confessionis theolog● habent cum Caluinianis c. printed Tubingae Anno 1603. And all this defended of either part vpon pretended certainety from the Scriptures examples whereof even in the sundrie Articles of our Catholike faith defended and that most earnestly against our learned adversaries by sundrie of their owne no lesse learned brethren and all this by either party vpon pretended certainety frō the Scriptures as so evident cōfessed that Nicolaus Gallus superintendent at Ratisbone complaineth thereat saying (n) Nicholaus Gallus in thesibus hipoth●sebus c. vide ibidem fol. vlt. non sunt leues c. the dissentions that are among●t vs are not light nor of light matters but of the cheefe articles of Christiane Doctrine of the lawe and the Gospell of iustification and good workes of the Sacramēts and the vse of ceremonies c. as also Seluecerus signifieth his like greefe saying (o) Seluecerus in 3. part Comentar in Psalmos in Psa 131. concerning the publique discord in the Church their is no neede to aske c. amongst vs who glory to haue the true doctrine of the Gospell disagrements are moued concerning thinges indifferent good workes our iustice b●fore God freewill the presence and participation of Christes body in the s●pper the humanitie of Christ the proprietie of his humaine nature his ascention and sitting vpon the right hand of God the vbiquitie and other matters These things being thus how now cā our aduersaries auoid in these straits the dangerouse sequell of theire incertaintie and ignorance in faith and religion for whereas the learned Protestants hould that (2) M. Bilson in his perpetuall government c. pag. 372. initio to haue no Iudge for the en●ing of their ecclesiasticall contentions were the vtter subuersion of all peace affirming thereupon (3) M. Bilson ibidē pag. 370. post medium Synodes to be an externall iudiciall meanes to discerne error and (4) M Bilson ibidē pag. 374. circa medium the surest meanes to decide doubtes and that (*) M. D Couel in his modest examination c. pag. 110. ante medium if Synodes want the Church neithe● at any time was nor indeede can safely be without tempestes themselues are yet vpon vnanswerable and iust (5) Conradus Schlusselburg in catall haereticorum lib. 13. vlt. pag. 864. post medium saith Hoc nobis potissimum considerandum videtur num hoc tempore inter exterarum ecclesiarum theologos nostros vlla sinodus indici cogi possit quis onim nostrum sibi arrogabit vt locum constituat diem dicat variarum nationū theologos evocet c. Iā vero in ipsa synodo quis praesidebit c. porro quis iudex erit inter li●egantes c. And see the Protestant auctor of the booke entituled Laconici Antisturmij Sp●gia adversus Lambertum Danaeum pag. 44. fiue where it is saide magna est stultitia provocare ad vniversalem sinodum quae institui non potest sicut ex supradictis manifestum est And whereas Master Whitaker lib. ●e concilijs pag. 56. circa medium truely teacheth that without auctoritie no Councell can be assembled who now shall haue this auctorttie to compell so many Christian Protestant Princes so variablie different in religion and amongst whom is no subordination to cause the divines of their severall nations to assemble themselues to a councell reasons by them signified in vtter dispaire to haue any councell assembled by the deuines of their seuerall Churches and nations therfore theire foresaid ignorance or incertainty all imaginary helpe to the contrarie by councells notwithstanding it is still to them so euident and vnauoidable that their Castalio (*) See heretofore tract 2. c. 1. sec 5. at this marke * a verie learned Caluinist saith concerning their reformed Church Profecto si verum fatere volumus c. (p) Sebastian Castalio in pretat Bibl. truely if we will confesse the truth this our age is as yet drowned in extreame darkenes and ignorance a most assured proofe whereof are these so grieuous so obstinate and so pernitious dissentions c so great a number of bookes every day set out so farre differing one frō another c. if the day of the most cleere truth shined vnto vs we would never lighten so many darkesome and obscure candles of bookes writings and therefore saith he (q) Castalio ibidem Crassa Crassa inquam seculum tenet ignorantia And for so much as there is no certaine way in his opiniō to find out the truth he concludeth saying (r) Castalio vbi supra expectemus iusti iudicis sententiam c. Let vs attend the sentence of the iust Iudge and suffer the Cockle vntill the time of Harvest c. Least perhappes wee plucke vp the good corne As also our other adversaries doe in regard of this confessed incertainety reduce all grounds and Ivdgments whatsoever of faith vnto private (*) Hereof see heretofore tract 2. cap. 1. sect 1. in the margent at the letters p. q. examination alledged (s) Lubbertus de principijs Christian dog pag. 562. 563. And M. Bilson in his true difference part 2. pag. 353. And see Assertiones theologic de Sacram. Caenae dom c. printed Argentorati Anno 1564. pag. 1. in defence thereof that we are (t) 1. Ioh. 4 1. to trie the Spirites if they bee of God and to (u) 1. Thessall 5 21. proue all thinges and hould that which is good Whereat we now take hould and charging our adversaries with their owne rule do therevpon provoke them to open and equall triall of disputation the which we for our parts could wish to be proceeding with observation of such indifferent reasonable conditions as are by Mr. Hooker in his discourse hereof against the Puritanes specially (x) Hereof see M. Hookers preface sette before his bookes of the lawes of ecclesiasticall policie sect 5. and pag. 25. post medium 26. ante medium prescribed or as were (y) Hereof see acta colloquij Ratisbonensis printed Monachij 1602. pa. 4. And see colloquiū Ratisbonae habitum printed Louingae 1602. pag. 9. 10. 11. agreed vpon in the late conferen●e at Ratisbone for the obteining whereof wee presume hereby to become most humble and earnest petitioners to your Maiestie The foresaide evident and necessarie incertainety of our adversaries Iudgements in doctrine may well seeme to neede it The weight and consequence of the cause being no lesse then matter of faith and religion deserveth it our adversaries former rule of reducing all things to examination and triall appointeth it our earnest desire of their conversion thirsteth greatly after it Their full perswasion of our pretended erring and like charitable care of our reformation should in all reason be no lesse willing of it The seuerall examples of the s●me course heretofore obserued and practised in soundry nations and by our very aduersaries (z) Hereof see Mathias Hoe in his Tractat. duo quorum prior de disputationibus theologicis c. in praefat prescribed do as it weare lead to it The venerable and confessed antiquity of our Catholicke faith established but neuer hitherto condemned in generall councell and therefore vnworthey to be as now reiected without some indifferencie of triall presumeth very confidently to obtaine it And lastly your Highnes mature and learned iudgmēt able to moderate and censure the same maketh vs so much the rather to become most humblie desirous and earnest for it The Almightie God who hath so powrablie preserved your Maiesties most royall person frō so many dangers past and no lesse graciouslie reserved it to accomplish the blessings of our happie times and nation conserue it ever accordingly with all worldlie felicitie in this life and heavenly in the nexte GOD SAVE THE KING