Linguistic DNA - Concept Modelling Demonstrator

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
doctrine_n	church_n	rome_n	transubstantiation_n	3,421	5	11.4318	5	true

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A08891	The fal of Babel By the confusion of tongues directly proving against the Papists of this, and former ages; that a view of their writings, and bookes being taken; cannot be discerned by any man living, what they would say, or how be vnderstoode, in the question of the sacrifice of the masse, the reall presence or transubstantiation, but in explaning their mindes they fall vpon such termes, as the Protestants vse and allow. Further in the question of the Popes supremacy is shevved, how they abuse an authority of the auncient father St. Cyprian, a canon of the I Niceene counsell, and the ecclesiastical historie of Socrates, and Sozomen. And lastly is set downe a briefe of the sucession of Popes in the sea of Rome for these 1600 yeeres togither; ... By Iohn Panke.	Panke, John.	1608 (1608)	STC 19171; ESTC S102341	167,339	204

sinketh not into my head that men otherwise learned and verie religious should so wilfully hood wincke themselues against the truth as in this last declaration it seemeth you meane they doe for besides their owne words and few of their bookes haue I yet seene in iustification of themselues I see a famous Catholike Church of theires I meane Rome who hath bin and yet is renowned for succession of Bishops This hath bin and yet is maketh all the error Iulius Caesar was once faithful to the Romans but affecting Soue ranitie he coÌ„tinued not so so the Church of Rome was agreat church amongst the rest But now it beareth witnes of it selfe as Simon Magus said That hee was some great maÌ„ Act 8.9 Their vsual tables in writing which they giue to their freinds containing a Catalogue of the Bish of Rome and continuance of Apostolike doctrine vvhose gouernor head is the Pope vvho keepeth it in the same integritie and soundnesse of doctrine that S. Peter our Lords cheife Apostle vvhose successor hee is did vvhen hee sate and ruled there as he doth now I tell you I haue a table of the Bishops of Rome from S. Peter to Climens the eight vvho latly deceased as the speech was You cannot shew me the like of any Church in the world but of that Al churches saue a fewe of late yeeares haue ever acknowledged that Church for the mother and head of them al and whatsoeuer was amisse vvas thither referred and determined therfore if you will oppose your selfe against them or their religion you had need bringe sound arguments or else they wil bee quickly confuted Rom. See now you require that of mee already vvhich you cannot performe your selfe To enterinto the discussing of the points of doctrine vvhich concerne either side you haue nether abilitie nor iudgment by reason you are but newly begun to be tutered by them And then if I shoulde of my selfe discourse of them vnto you you vvould in the end say of my labour therin as a merrie fellow in Wilteshire said of an hare in a course with his dogge when my dogge was let slip at the hare quoth he she went forth right was before my dogge some foure acres bredth But my dogge fetcht her and gaue her a turne and awaie she goes againe then he gaue her another and did beat her so that she had many turnes wrenches but in the end quoth he the hare went awaie and had nether turne nor wrench so if I should shew vnto you the vnsouÌ„dnes of the doctrine of the church of Rome from scriptures Fathers Counsells Doctors yea of the intrusions of Bishops into that sea which you from them call succession you would giue me the hearing how soever I did beat the hare in giuing her manie wrentches turnes yet you would saie she went from me in the end and had nether turne nor wrentch I am not ignorant in what painted Cyphers In the 1. petition to his Maiestie Adde fidem dictis Ovid. Medea Ias the Catholikes did of late a greable to your report of them set forth their religion calling it venerable for antiquitie maiesticall for amplitude constant for continuance irreprehensible for doctrine inducing to all kind of vertue and pietie dissuading from all sin wickednesse A religioÌ„ beloued by all priâ—â€¦tiue Pastors established by all Oecumenicall counsells vpheld by al ancioâ—â€¦ doctors maintained by the first and most Christian Emperours recorded almost alone in all Ecclesiasticall histories sealed with the blood of millions of Martyres adorned with the vertues of so manie confessors beautified with the paritie of thousands of Virgins so conformable to naturall sence and reason and finally so agreable to be sacred text of Gods word and Gospell Of which speech of theirs I will saie noe otherwise nowe Cor. Tac. hist l. 2. c. 27. then Tacitus doth of Vitellius the Emperour of Rome in these words The daie following saith he as though he had spoken before the Senate and people of a strange Citty he made a glorious speech of himselfe extolling his owne industriousnesse and temperancie when as they vvhich hard him of their owne knowledge vvere witnesses of his lewd actions al Italy besides through which he marched for drowsinesse and riot notoriously infamous Two pillars wherof the Papists must rest Whitak cont Dureum l 9. de Sophia There are two notable pillars which vphold the Church of Rome in al her buildings vnknowen to you yet but herafter better may be against which if you leane they wil surely deceaue you on is The Church of Rome cannot erre whatsoeuer it teacheth the other The Bishop of Rome ought not to bee accused what soeuer he doe Vpon such pillars as these they maie reate what vvorke they wil and so they doe but it fareth with theÌ„ as it was wont to the false Prophets One buildeth vp an muddy wall Exech 13.10 and others dawbe it over with a rotten plaister But because it hath pleased God to bringe vs againe thus luckely to gether I wil bend our conference for this time to some good purpose that you goe not altogether awaie without profite Will you graunt mee but so much as common humanitie will afford anie man or the meanest courtesie of freindes allowe Tub. I wil alowe you any reasonable graunt whereof if you doubt you doe me wronge it may be you deeme me so affectioned that I wil neither heare nor read anie thinge aganst my humor I would not haue you so thinke of me that were more beast like to follow the first of the heard then according to anie Christian course and if anie should wish me to it I should the sooner mistract them and grow the wearier of them Rom. You say well and my request shal be yet more reasonable then you would deeme it to be you are you saie vnable to dispute of the points of doctrine betweene them vs vntil you be further instructed in them Tub. I confesse it I haue only hetherto heard their our report without either their proofes or your acceptions Rom. Why then this I saie which you or anie man being neuer so vnlearned maie vnderstand if all their points of their religion be good sound Catholike according to Scriptures Fathers Counsells Doctors histories viz. their Masse their sacrifice their reall presence their meritinge of heauen their free wil in good and holy things their praying to Saints their seruice in an vnknowen tongue The points in con rouersie betweene vs. the forbidding of the lave people to read the Scriptures in their vulgar tongue The Bishop of Romes authoritie worshiping of Images and a number of questions else What need then is there for the Doctors of that side such as haue written in defence proofe of their cause Harding Dorman Saunders Stapleton Allen Cope Bellarmine Rhemists Dureus and manie others to misaleadg any Doctor Counsell Historie or Father either by corrupting of

they doe so Laie meÌ„ would carrie a more religious and more reuerend regard of those sacred Oracles theÌ„ such church men doe for ought that I see But I perceaue they keep the Laitie from reading beecause they should not vnderstand their interpretatioÌ„s if such wrestings may be tearmed interpretations Rom Now iudge you how caÌ„ their questioÌ„s be testified and proued out of the holy scripture when the sentences of holy scripture are so far of from them Qui pote est habere idoncaÌ„ id quod sequitur causam cuÌ„ ipsum illud primum Ã quo defluit seÌ„cundum inanissimum esse repe riatur vacuum nulla so liditate firmatum Arnob. cont Gent. l. 7 fol. 268 Arn. ib. fol. 278 Sed quid face repossumus coÌ„siderare noleÌ„tibus penitus res ipsas secuÌ„que ipsos loqui froÌ„ which they would drawe the truth of their assertions If the foundation bee not settled the building wil euer totter I doubt not but many amongst them see the confusion of their cause euen at hand nay I dare apply that speech of Arnobius against theÌ„ which he did against the Gentiles Non nobis est sermo cum hominibus rationis expertibus neque quibus non sit communis intelligentiae veritas We spend not our talke with men who are void of reasoÌ„ nor with those who haue not a common simplicity of vnder standing you haue wisdome you haue sence verumque nos dicere apud vos ipsi inter iore iudicio scitis you knowe in your most innermost thoughts thet we saie true But what can we doe to those that wil not sift the truth themselues to the quick dispute eueÌ„ with themselues you doe that which you see done not that which you iudge ought to be done verily because Custome hauing noe reason with it doth more sway with you quam rerum inspecta natura veritatis examinatione poÌ„derata then substance of matter examined according to the waight of truth Now to goe a little further touching that sentence of Polidors mislike of their racking of the scripture to shew that they would make sure worke if they could tell how since I cannot lay too much to their charg that they deale against vs as against their owne consciences I wil tel you how they wil deale with their own Polidore They reading that sentence in his booke to make against them Corrigenda sunt atque delenda doe commande that it bee corrected put out as by their Index expurgatorius appeareth Tub. To be corrected and put out as by their Index expurgatorius appeareth what meane you by that I vnderstaÌ„d you not is it a booke or what is it Rom It is a little book gathered together in manner of a table or index with warrant enough by the decree of the Tridentine counsell by the authoritie and commandement of the Catholike Kinge Phillip the second and by the aduise and furtherance of the Duke of Alba. The drift of it is this Iuxta sacri coÌ„cilij Tridentini decretum Philippi 2. regis catholici iussu authoritate atque Albani ducis coÌ„silio a ministerio in Belgia concinnatus anno 1571. Where there are diuers volumes bookes for the vse of schollers both Protestants Papists as Fathers doctors diuine and humane because they wil haue nothing come to their schollers sight that shal make against the Church of Romes doctrine by the paines of diuers men they haue run ouer a number of writers Diuines Lawiers Phisitians Philosophers Mathematicians humanists haue quoted the places that offended them in this Index tould their schollers that they must either correct them in the bookes or wipe theÌ„ out if they doe chance to studie anie of those bookes there named dash them out with a pen doe anie thing with them so they rise not vp in iudgment against them Amongst all which authors Polidore Virgil is one in whose poore booke they haue willed to bee mangled blotted out aboue an hundred seuerall places of all which it seemeth they are fowly ashamed InstaÌ„ces I could produce manie but that it is not material in a case so cleare one or two maie suffice In an other place speaking of the cheife heads of the CommandemeÌ„ts he reckoneth this for the second Nullius animalis effigiem colito Thou shalt not worship the liknesse of anie liuing creature Poâ— Vir. de inurer l 5. c 9. fol. 435. The collectors of the Index doe command that senteÌ„ce to be wiped out and not to be read at anie hand If they bee not afraid that the second commandement against grauen Images is directly against them whie doe they takeit out of their Catechismes as Vaux and wipe it out as they doe here Their index doth yet more miserablie bewray them Vt Liber Bertrami Pre. byt de corp saÌ„g domini tolera riemendatus queat fol. 11. 12. in Indice for in shewing how the ancieÌ„t Treatises of on Bertrame a priest which teacheth as we doe of the sacrament of the altar may be suffered to passe for good if it be amended doe testifie to the world That they can by some desised shift denie whatsoeuer errors they finde in the ancient fathers extenuate them and deuise an apt sence to anie of their testimonies when they shal be vrged by the adversaries in disputations and conferences Non videmus cur non eandeÌ„ aequitatem diligentem recognitionem mereatur Bertramus Ind. ib. Senec. in Herc Oeti Act 3. Geneb Chron l. 4. fol. 790. Nonnulla tacitÃ¨ corrigens quae de ea quaestione Bertramus Presb paulo ante minus scitÃ¨ coÌ„mode ad CaroluÌ„ Calvum rescripserat they see noe reason whie they should not vse that equitie diligence towards Bertrame as towards the rest of the Fathers Scelera quae quisque ausus est hoc vicit malum This dealing passeth al that caÌ„ be imagined They that gather the Index confesse that this Bertrame was verie famous and beloued of two Emperours Charles the great Charles the Bald And Genebrard incerteth that about the yeare of our Lord 877. a question beeing made in the sacrament whether the eating be corporallor spiritu al Paschasius the Abbot wrot therof learnedly And covertly corrected manie things which Bertrame the preist had writeÌ„ therof a little before vnto Charles the Bald not so fitly and so skilfully as he should so wee maie perceaue by Geuebrard aswel as by the gatherers of the Index that Bertrams booke is a great block in their waie Tub. If this booke doe so manifestly discouer their trechery as by your report it appeareth it doth would they suffer it to come in sight to be knowen of you who they knewe would accept against it and also make a great historie of it Rom. Noe I warrant you they never ment it should be seene of anie Protestant they were sending it to their owne Vniuersities schooles of learning beyond

the text of S. Paule who interpret that place truly they or we The Rhemists name not one ancieÌ„t father who interpreteth that text as they doe First you see they haue not so much as named anie ancieÌ„t father who may bee imagined to leane towards them which is one manifest argument there is none nether vndoubtedly is there any for considering their intollerable ambition in other parts of that booke how they tally vp fathers by skores when they can but preteÌ„d their names they would not now haue omitted them if they could haue told which of them did but looke that way Now for our parts vvee can name doe daily read in the volumes of that great Doctor so much renowned by the Iesuite euen S. Augustine Super Ioan. tract 26. that he doth inter pret that place as we doe For after he hath recited the text of S. Paule he saith verilie the same spirituall meate but the corporall was other because they did eate Manna and wee another thinge Where are the Rhemists now where is Torrensis where are they al Hath shame and grace so left them that they are past blushing Periere mores â—us decus pietas fides qui redire Senec. in â—ga act 2. â—um perit neseit pudor All right religion honestie good maner yea and that which knoweth not how to returne when it is once gone shamfastnesse are cleare cassired by them euen as though the safest way to stop one mischiefe were to fall into many enormities This is so cleare out of S. Augustine Per celera seÌ„ per tutum est sceleribus iter that those diuines amongst them who gathered the booke of sermons homilies set out by the decree of the Trent fathers doe charg S. Augustine in that point with a violent interpretation Which is both an iniurie to that ancient father Opera LaureÌ„tij cum dij Itali post obituÌ„ eius Ã Francisco Gerardo Molanâ— Ludg. anno 1588. in tertio tomo f. 279. violenta interpretatio ponitur in margine eiusdem libri deeply ingrosseth the Rhemists amongst them who thinke that bookes will not blush whatsoeuer faces will and assureth vs that our interpretation is true and consonant to S. Paules meaning and the Papists in generall are ouerthrowen in that whole question For if the ancient Iewes could and did eate the same Christ that we doe that the same substance was in the Israelits sacraments that is in ours and that a good Iew is a good christian It must needs follow that we eate him no more really substantially in our sacraments then they did in theirs and for them to haue him really and substantially in theirs 2000. yeares before he was incarnate was impossible therfore nether haue we him so I could shew this matter more largly out of S. Augustine if I would staÌ„d about it It sufficeth me first to haue found Torrensis so praising S. Augustine as I haue set down then the Rhemists most shamelesly denying our interpretation lastly S. Augustine charged by theÌ„ with vsing a violent interpretation in the holie scripture and that in that interpretatioÌ„ he is ours Bellarmine himselfe haÌ„dling that question giueth ouer S. Augustine Bella. de effec sacram l. 2. c. 17. fere fine plainly by name saith he wil preferre Chrisostome before him in that Where is Torrensis now who said that S. Augustines iudgment is the iudgment of the whole Church that his witnesse is without exception Doth not this plainly shew that they will allow of nothinge to further then it shal make for theÌ„ Doe not they shew that they haue no rule but the Leaden Leshian as Torrensis calleth it In his discouerie of our translations c. 19. Doth not Gregory Martin chide the Protestants in general for following S. Augustine in reading a text of Scripture as he doth and saith they followe him against all antiquitie Why if Torrensis say true he is as good as al antiquity For his testimonie is the testimony of al antiquity De eccles hier l. 3. c. 4. fol. 153 c. 5. fol. 163 D. Augustinus varius incoÌ„stance in scriptutarum expositione Mat. 16. Doctrin princip l. 6. c. 3. Vt ante fo 82. 83. Allen. vt ante l. 2. c. 5. fol. 517 Mel. Can. vt ant l. 12. c. 12. fol. 411. The prophesy of Melchy c. 1. 11. for the calling of the geÌ„tiles and what manner of sacrifice they should offer Albertus Pighius an other great but late procter for the Church of Rome imputeth as much infamy to S. Augustine as euer Torrensis did vertue as much in constancie and perplexitie in change of doctrine as euer the other did constancie Augustine saith he was constant in nothinge but what did please him now did anone displease him And this is because S. Augustine is against them in expounding Christ to be the rocke vpon which the Church is builte and not vpon Peters person as Pighius and the Papists would haue him say Mary D. Stapleton censureth that verie fault in S. Augustine somwhat modestly caling it lapsus humanus an ouersight proceeding of ignorance Yea Torrensis himselfe doth gnaw at S. Augustine for so interpreting that place of Christ not of Peter although hee will not much defile that neast which he tooke such paines to beautifie D. Allen Melchior Canus doth both confesse S. Augustine to be ours in an high point of difference betweene them and vs and namely in expouÌ„ding the words of the Prophet Malachy From the rising of the sunne to the going downe of the same my name is greate amonge the Gentiles and in euerie place incense shal be offered vnto my name and a pure offering for my name is great amonge the heathen saith the Lord of the sacrifice of praise and thankes giuinge as wee doe therfore not of the sacrifice of the Masse as they doe And thus doth S. Augustine by their owne confession stande with vs against them in the most principall differences beâ—eene vs and them Now I doubt not the later Masters wil â—â€¦ther condemne the Iesuits fraud for commending him whom they doe not loue rather then at that composition giue ouer the questions which he holdeth with vs wholy into our hands But though they doe abate their Iesuits credit we wil yet hold the questions in despite of their cunnings to wrest the veritie of them from vs. But leauing them mired in these I wil proceed to other things to see if they be there any clenlier Of generall councells There is a great question betweene them and vs whether generall counsels gathered together for the benefit of the Church to appease questions that arise therin touching matters not only of life but of doctrine and faith also may nor can erre They affirme that touching matters of fact ceremonies or things belonging to discipline or manners that such a councell may erre in such things but not in

it pleased almighty God to send ease to his Church in making her chiefe enemies her dearest friends Then began Kings to be her nursing fathers Queenes to be her nursing mothers Then first called he Constantinus surnamed the Great to the knowledge of the truth Esay 49. v. 23. After the first 300. yeeres of a Pagan becoÌ„ming a Christian putting downe Idololatry and erecting the true service of God Vnder him and his sonnes there liued the Romane Bishops Melchiades Silvester Marcus Iulius Liberius and Felix Strife about Felix Eccle 1. hier l. 4 c. 8. There is much strife in the church of Rome at this and Felix Strife about Felix Eccles hier l. 4. c. 8. There is much strife in the church of Rome at this day about this Felix some of them reakoning him for a Pope and some putting him out Albertus Pighius saith they that register him for a Pope bewray their own ignorance Bellarmine saith Bell. de Rom. pont li. 4. c. 9. fol. 509. their church worshippeth him as Pope and Martyr The strife betweene them two about Felix groweth about Liberius who was Pope next before him This Liberius in his banishment vnder Constantius the Emperour did subscribe to the Arrian heresy and so in his absence out of the Citty Felix was Pope in his roome Thus much doth Bellarmine coÌ„nfesse of Liberius And because Pighius most impudeÌ„tly denieth that he subscribed Chron. l. 3. fol. 574. Ammianus Marcellinus Comes So was Marcellinus martired yet he fell before They were wont to tell vs that Christ praied for Peter but nowe they tel vs he praied for the chaire he sitteth on Contra haer l. 1. c. 4. Defen Conc. Trid. li. 2. fol. 244. Fasc Tempor in liberio Platina in liberio Annot. Onuphrij Anast Bibl. in Lib. Feli. About the yere of our Lord. 370. A schisme at Rome between Damasus Vrsinus Polid. Verg. de inven reruÌ„ li. 5. c. 4. f. 401. Bellar. de cleric l. 1. c. 18. f. 92. Aug. epist 93. l. 2. ad Bonif. cont 2. epist Pelag. c. 4. therefore he shutteth out Felix from being Pope at all D. Genebrard cannot tel what to say directly on this Felix part First he telleth vs that Ammianus Marcellinus in his Chronicles did passe by him as suspected of heresie and Onuphrius one that wished as wel to the sea of Rome as wel might be maketh him a schismatike and an vnlawful Pope for Liberius over liued him obtained the place alone But other more truer saith he do report that he was Martired in a tumult by the Arrians And yet in the next words he saith that Felix was appointed by Acatius the disciple of Eusebius into the place of Liberius and held for an Arian But such was the force of the Chaire that it would rather hold a Martyr Pope than an heretike Pope or one that should favor the heretikes Thus farre Genebrard Alphousus a Castro maketh no question but that Liberius was an Arrian heretike AnÃ radius is content that we should cal him vnconstant faithlesse or vniust but in no case an heretike Fasciculus TemporuÌ„ saith he was the first infamous Pope If you desire more of these two Popes Liberius and Felix read or cause to bee read vnto you Platina who wrote the liues of the Popes and Onuphrius annotations on him and Anastatius Bibliothecarius on the same argument set out by theÌ„selues not aboue three yeeres since and you shal see diversity enough After those followed Damasus Siricius Anastasius Innocentius Sozimus Bonifacius Celestinus Sixtus 3. and Leo the great There was a schisme then in the Church of Rome betweene Damasus and one Vrsinus or Vrcisianus but Damasus obtained yet not without bloud Siricius was the first that in the west parts forbad priests to marry as Polidore Virgil alleadgeth out of Gratian whervnto Bellarmine is now fairely come That it is not forbidden by the law of God that Priests should marry Innocentius the first held and taught a dangerous errour that is That it is necessary to salvation for infants to receiue the coÌ„munion contrary to Saint Paules rule that none should receiue but those that are able to examine themselues and contrary to the doctrine of the Church of Rome vnder Pius quartus in the Tridentine counsell which accurseth those that thinke the Eucharist is to bee given to infantes before the yeares of discretion Sess 21. can 4. The bishops of Rome contended with the bishops of Aphrica for superiority Bonifacius 1. was the sonne of lucundus a Preist as saith Platina so was Felix 3 who immediatly followed sonne vnto Felix a Priest Leo epist 45. Fasciculus teÌ„p Geneb in Chron. l 3. fol. 600. Eulatius against Bonifacius an 423. Gelasius was the sonne of a bishop called Valerius Plat. in vit eius The first 600. yeares Gelasius decreed in 2. maine points against them now Anastasius 2. an heretike so that the Apostolicall seate in one of these two must needs er In Sozimus Bonifacius Celestinus time there was much coÌ„trouersie between theÌ„ the Aphrican bishops touching appeales to Rome Sozimus began the claime and could not make it good he graced himselfe with warrant from the Nicene councell which beeing demanded no canon nor decree could be shewed The AphricaÌ„ bishops deny their appeales thither and so grew much turmoile But if all Churches in al cases were subiect to the sea of Rome iure diuino by Gods law as they would make vs beleeue now very simple was Sozimus to claime by the Canons of the councel of Nice and very forgetful of their duties were the Aphrican bishops who would put him to proue his authoritie by an humane invention when the high God had by his lawes subiected them vnto him before Leo the great yet was his authoritie so smal that hee could not remoue Abbat Eutiches from him but was forced to intreate the Empresse Pulcheria to vse her authoritie therin By this time there had bin fowre schismes in the church of Rome yet Genebrard acknowledged but three After Leo were Hillarius Simplicianus Felix 3. Gelasius Anastasius 2. Simmachus Hormisda Iohn 1. Felix 4. Bonifacius 2. Iohn 2. Agapetus Silverius Vigilius Pelagius Iohn 3. Benedictus Pelagius 2. Gregory the greate these reacheth downe to the first 600. yeares Amongst which Gelasius decreed that to minister the holy communioÌ„ in one kind is open sacriledge and againe he defined that the substance of bread and wine remaine after consecratioÌ„ both which are diametrally opposite to the doctrine of the new church of Rome Anastasius the second was an heretike as appeareth by the histories Wernerus saith he was the 2 infamous Pope he was a Nestorian heretike as before him his predecessor Liberius was an Arrian Vigilius vsed indirect means to attaine to the PopedoÌ„e Huius Vigilij ingressus parum legitimus suit cum praetet ecclesiasticas regulas praedecessore suo Silverio viuente PoÌ„tificatus administratione

false doctrine ether of Faith or manners coulde ever allight because Christ said to Peter I haue prayed for thee that thy faith faile not c. Let the heretiks therfore knowe that the more more greiuous sinnes they produce against the bishops our faith saith he doth staÌ„d the stronger Thus farre Saunders Where any man may playnly see that if that curse denounced by the Lord in the Prophet Esay woe vnto them that speake good of evill evill of good which put darknesse for light light for darknesse doe appertaine or was ever directed against any it will fall on them who build their faith one such a foundation Againe where he saith Omnis homo mendax etiam Romanus pontifex every man is a liar yea the Pope also his old fellow Alphonsus a Castro a strong maintainer of the catholike faith as Genebrard calleth him could write against heretikes such as Luther was and yet say boldly Omnis homo errare potest in fide otiam si Papa sit Every man may erre in the faith yea though he be Pope For it is certaine saith hee Pope Liberius was an Arrian heretike and Pope Anastasius favoured the NestoriaÌ„s of this whosoever hath read the histories doth not doubt wheras some doe affirme that hee which erreth in the faith obstinatly is not then Pope by that meanes the Pope caÌ„not be an heretike est in re seria verbis velle iocari it is to trifle with words in a serious matter for according to that reason a man may impudently affirme that no faithful man may erre in the faith for when he is an heretike he then ceaseth to be a faithfull man Nether doe wee doubt saith he whether One man may bee a Pope and an heretike both to gether but this wee seeke whether a man who otherwise is subiect to erre his pontificiall dignity doe free him The pontifical dignity caÌ„not priviledg him who is otheâ—wise subiect to erre I doe not beleeue that there is any so shamelesse a flatterer of the Pope that he will say he caÌ„not erre or be deceiued in the interpretation of the scripture for seeing it is certaine that many of them haue bin so vnlearned that they haue not vnderstood their Grammer how is it then that they should interpret the holy scriptures Thus far hath Alphonsus gone if not too farre To conclude this inference against Saunders it must not be forgotten that he hath described and confessed the Pope of Rome who with him is Christs vicar to be such an one indued with such qualities as no honest religious vertuous holy faithfull or good man or any child of God or member of Christ was ever said to bee furnished with S. Paule to the Rom. c. 16. 17. S. Paul gaue to the RomaÌ„s other churches these lessons touching the holynes of their liues Now I beseech you bretheren marke them diligently which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which he hath learned avoid them For they that are such serue not the Lord Iesus Christ but their owne bellies with faire speech and flattering deceaue the harts of the simple Walke wisely towards them that are without and redeeme the time Let your speech be gracious alwaise and powdred with salt that you may knowe how to answere everie man Colloss 4.5.6 Cap. 3.15 Let the peace of God rule in your harts to the which yee are called in one and be yee gracious Abstaine from all apparance of evill And of himselfe who was a teacher he saith Wee command you bretheren in the name of the Lord Iesus Christ 2. Thess 3.6 that yee withdraw your selues from every brother that walketh inordinatly and not after the instruction which hee receaued of vs for yee your selues knowe how yee ought to follow vs for we behaued not our selues inordinatly amongst you And to the Hebrewes he writeth thus Cap. 13.17.18 Obey them that haue the oversight of you and submit your selues for they watch for your soules as they that must giue accompts that they may doe it with ioy and not with greife for that is vnprofitable for you pray for vs for wee are assured that wee haue a good conscience in all things desiring to like honestly Hooker eccl pol. l. 5. para 1. NulluÌ„ ego coÌ„silium melius arbitror quaÌ„ si exemplo tuo fratrem docere studeas quâ— oporteat quae non oporteat fieri prouocans cum ad meliora coÌ„sulens ci non verbo neque lingua sed opere veritate Bern. de adu domini serm 3.1 Peter 2.6.8 Esay 28.16 8.14 Now since it is no particular conceipt but a matter of sound consequeÌ„ce that all duties are by so much the better performed by how much the men are more religious from whose abilities the same proceed Godlinesse being the cheifest top and well-spring of al true vertues even as God is of all good things howe is it possible that these Popes and church of Rome should hold and keepe Christs regency here on earth to coÌ„mand and appoint lawes and statutes to all Christians and Christian churches and be as it were a communalty free froÌ„ all error at least of doctrine claiming from a text of scripture which requireth not only a not fayling in faith but a streÌ„gthning of their brethren that shal slide when they themselues in the meane while shal be a company faithlesse irreligious and vniust yea a lothsome distressed number divorced from al piety religion and godlines Is this the stone that S. Peter ment when he said recording the wordes of the Prophet Esay Behold I put in Sion a chiefe corner stone elect and precious he that beleeveth therein shal not be ashamed A stone to stumble at and rocke of offence even to them that stumble at the word beeing desobedient as Bellarmine implieth where he saith Bellar. in pref in lib. de Rom. pont fo 10. 11. quanquaÌ„ haec verbs in Christum praecipue convenire non ignoramus cadem tamen â—on inepte in Christi vicarium quadrare censemus although we are not ignorant that those wordes are principally meant of Christ About the yere 1058. In Fasc temp Benedict was Pope 9. moÌ„ths and after expulsed and throwen out Iohn 10. hee that entereth not by the dore is a theif a robber Gregory 7. Benno in vita eius If nothing bee in the Chalice but the blood of Christ how could poisoÌ„ be mingled with it Geneb Chro. l. 4. fol. 887. A schisme 29. yeeres For the full truth of the history of HeÌ„ry 4. Emperor Gregory 7. Pope reade the dialogues of my Lord Winton p. 3. f. 430. c. The counsells accused him of all those vices that Cardinall Benno did yet we do not thinke amisse wheÌ„ we say that they do belong also to Christs vicar the Pope A horrible blasphemy if ever there were any But I will leaue this and turne to their successioÌ„ againe Leo. 9.

669. for the priuate masse fol. 675. for an halfe communion Dureus resp Whitak rat 6. fol. 301. Ex Euseb eccles hist lib. 6. c. 44 in Greeke 36. in Latine and 43. in English Eckius enchir loc comm c. 15 fol. 156. If the Communion that is a companie receiueing together bee in that respect better then the priuate masse as M Harding himselfe saith where the Priest receaueth all the people gazing on and receaueing nothing which is the point which M Iewell blamed and the priuate masse be but a matter of small waight and a fact the Priests negligence causing the peoples slacknesse For shame leaue of to write in defence of it as also to make that a true Communion spiritual receauing wheÌ„ the People stand by receaue nothing as both D. Harding M. DormaÌ„ doe Corporally the Preist spiritually the people saith he Then say I the people that receiue spiritually receiue the better for to receiue the flesh and bloud of Christ corporally they assigne to the wicked and reprobate such as Iudas spiritually they assigne only to the elect and godly But how are both these articles of private masse and halfe communion proued against B. Iuell and vs by one example of what a silly boy did giue to a sicke maÌ„ at his house in a case of necessity The boy because the Priest was sicke brought from him a little of the sacrament and gaue it the old man Do not these men lacke the practise of the Church for their warrant that wil obtrude such examples The story is to be read in Eusebius in Greeke Latine and English and therfore there can be no mystery in it except men desire to be abused What saith Eckius touching praier vnto Saints departed which doctrine is of great moment in the church of Rome ExplicitÃ¨ non est praecepta sanctorum invocatio in sacris literis The invocation of Saints departed is not expressed in the holy scriptures This inuocatioÌ„ of Saints cannot be proued net her by the old TestameÌ„t nor by the newe Not in the old Testament saith he for the Iews were prone to Idololatry and vnder the Gospel it was not commanded least the GeÌ„tiles that were converted and beleeued should thinke they should bee brought againe to the worship of Earthly Gods Further saith he if the Apostles Evangelists had taught the Saints had bin to haue bin worshipped it would haue argued great arrogancy in theÌ„ as if they had sought renowne after death therfore the Apostles would not by the expresse scripture teach the calling vpon Saints Thus far Eckius Sessio 25. de inuocat The counsel of Trent doth not fouÌ„d it in the scriptures but bringeth it in by the window an other way by custome consent of Fathers which they do but pretend neither because they would not let go al their hold at once Saunders reakoneth this amongst other things to be the words of God De visib monarc l. 1. fol 12 Hoker Ecclespoll 1. par 13. The benefit of hauing diuines lawes written not his word written but his worde vnwritten If we in this age of the world be to trust to an vnwritten word I demaund to whom that was deliuered to be kept and preserued In the first age of the world as God gaue Laws to our Fathers without writing so hee gaue them memories which serued in steede of books the defects of that kinde of teaching being knowne vnto him he relieued it by often iterating of one thing by putting theÌ„ in minde of onething often After this grew the vse of writing as meanes more durable to preserue the laws of God from oblivion and corruption as the liues of men grew the more to be shortned therfore is Moses said to write al the words of God and vnto the Evangelist S. Iohn expresse Charge is giuen Scribe Exod. 24 4. Apoc. 1.11 14.13 Ioh. 20.30.31 write these things Againe Many other signes also did Iesus in the presence of his disciples which are not written in this booke but these things are written that yee might beleeue that Iesus is that Christ that Son of God So that if now after so much writing the ceasing of God to speake to the worlde but by writing we shal divert from his written worde to his vnwritten it wil be to turne the truth of God into a lie and to follow fables in steed of truth If this part of the doctrine of the Church of Rome in praying to Saints be without al warraÌ„t of holy scripture as Eckius and Saunders do allow how much to blame are they Dureus Conf. Whi rat 1. f. 44 Cope dial 3. fol. 332. to the same purpose who would drawe a prescript rule from Christs owne words on the crosse when he cried Eli Eli My God my God why hast thou forsaken me saying that it was familiar to the faithful Iews to pray vnto Saints because they thought that Christ had called on Elias Is it not a miserable glosse that eateth out the bowels of the text If it were an vsual thing with the Iews to pray vnto Saints how said Eckius that the Iewes had it not in vse because they were prone to idololatry and to whom should they pray The fathers of the old testament saith he also were in Limbo in hel The Iews that said Christ called on Elias did deride mocke him so do the Papists abuse vs Matth. 27.47 that alleadge the holy scriptures to such purposes But into how many shapes wil they turne this one parcel of scripture and make it serue more waies thaÌ„ one Saunders alleadgeth it for the service in an vnknowne tongue because the Iews seemed to mistake Christ De visib mon. l. 7. fo 679. for the seruice in an vnknowne tongue How neere that speech of Christ on the crosse commeth either in favour of praying to Saints or to the service in an vnknown tongue I wil not sticke even now to make themselues iudges The Doctrine of pardons hath brought no smal treasure to the church of Rome yet Alphonsus Alphons a Castro l. 8. verb. indulg PardoÌ„s haue no ground either in antiquity or in the scriptures Polid. Virg. de invent rerum li. 8. c. 1. f. 614. revereÌ„ceth it but for new Against the error of denying pardons saith he I wil contend in few words because amongst al the things whereof we dispute in this work there is none that the holy scriptures haue lesse mentioned then pardons and wherof the ancient writers haue lesse spoken This report of Alphonsus doth Polidore Virgill confirme out of Fisher who was bishop of Rochester in these words No Divine doth at al doubt saith he whether there be purgatory but yet among the ancient fathers there is no mention at al of it or very seldome yea euen the Greekes to this day beleeue it not for so long as there was no care for purgatory nemo quaesivit indulgentias no

the seas Ex officina Christophori Plant. an 1571 Iun. in epist ad illustrissimum principem Ioannem Casimi rum Hunc foetum genuerunt illi sed nascentem inter genua sua presserunt as it was a going was intercepted The verie Authenticall booke of their owne impression singulari numinis prouidentiÃ¢ by gods prouidence was brought to a great Protestant who toke the pains for theÌ„ to send it by copies vnto al ProtestaÌ„t Churches in Christendome so that that birth of theirs which like another monster they were diuers daies and nights in bringing forth thought when they had brought it forth to haue stifled it between their knees doth now liue in good liking through good cherishing but to the perpetuall in famie of the parents An other helpe like vnto that before in effect they doe also vse to make their schollers to thinke that the ancient Doctors of the Church doe all make for them The elder schollers and those that read vnto the rest take paines most in the controuersies hauing found what liketh theÌ„ to confirme their doctrine doe write it in breife deliuer it in notes to their schollers out of their written sheetes neuer suffering them to looke into the doctors originalls theÌ„selues so that whensoeuer it please the Masters to coggorly either by adding or abating the text which they finde the schollers are deceaued abused thinking such such authorities doe make for them when if the grounds bee looked into they shew nothing lesse then they quote them for which dealing of the Masters with their owne schollers caused a faithfull teacher of this land Reinolds conference with Hart. c. 1. diuis 1. fol. 4. to wish his ConcumbataÌ„t for his owne good to looke into the originall books themselues for proofe of that which he was to dispute of because he knewe hee would otherwise bee deceaued if hee trusted those on whom he meant to relie which was the greatest freest liberty that could be graunted to anie man Thus much haue I bin willing to shew by the way at first Sic. habent principia sese Ter. in Phor. Act. 3. scen 1. touching their politick but not religious courses in astonishing the world vvith that religion vvhich only is boulstred out by manie indirect courses perceaued euerie day more more I wil now according to my first intent goe forward to set before your eies the manie differences and implications which they vse in expressing their minds in that question of the sacrament betweene them vs remembring here noe other thinge then that which themselues doe euer giue in charge In the explication of the true catholike faith in the sacrament f 4. b Then is the doctrine of the Church of Rome not the truth as shall manifestly appeare hereafter to be regarded advised vpon to be ioined with that good counsel of D. Hardinge set down before Amongst manie other proofs saith Gardiner wherby truth after much trauaile in contention at the last preuaileth hath victorie there is none more notable then when the verie adversaries of truth who pretend never the lesse to be truthes freinds doe by some euident vntruth bewraie themselues For on that part ever is the truth where al sayings doings appear vniformely consonaÌ„t to the truth pretended And on what side a notable lie appeareth the rest maie be iudged after the same sort for truth needeth noe aide of lies craft or slight NOTE WEL wherwith to be supported maintained So that in the intreating of the truth of this high ineffable mysterie of the sacrament on what part thou seest craft shift slight or obliquitie or in anie one point an open manifest lie there thou maiest consider whatsoeuer pretence bee made of truth yet the victorie of truth not to be there inteÌ„ded which loueth simplicitie plain nesse direct speech without admixture of shift or colour Thus farre Gardener To this purpose also speaketh D. Saunders Protestantium inter se dissensiones certissimam fidem faciuat doctrinae veritatem non penes illos verum penes ecclesiam Romanamesse Devisibili monar l. 7. f. 627. The dissentions amongst the Protestants saith he doe make evident proofe that the truth is not on their sides but altogether on the Church of Romes wherin amongst the beleiuers there is one hart one soule on tongue vnder one Pastor the Pope Now if notwithstanding their braggs of truth evidence of truth nothing but truth on their side there doe fall out in searching of their bookes that they doe nothing lesse theÌ„ further that which they most extol I hope you will not laie the fault blame on me that doe but shew that so they doe but rather on them whoe deliuer such matter Si illum obiurges vitae qui auxilium tulit Terenc in Andr act 1. scen 1 quid facias illi qui dederit damnum aut malum saith the Poet If you blame him that shal further your health by his best indeauour what wil you doe to an other that shal seeke to bring you into danger But indeed all their clamours against vs or petite glozes in defence of themselues or faire admonitions to their readers Actor P Clodius aedilis Reus sui que patronus Cice ro acta in sen anno Ciceronis 51. vrbis 697. de haruspicuÌ„ respoÌ„sis to beware of vs are but as that accusation of Publius Clodius against Tully who hauing himselfe sacrilegiously abused certaine holy things appertaining to the Temple and fearing least Tuily would accuse him in the senate first complained of him that all religion was prophaned in his house Tub. I both perceaue what you would saie as also what you are willing I should conceaue touching their dealing in these matters Goe to the question of the sacrament I pray you because in that they pretend most perspicuitie clearnesse Rom. I knowe they doe In confidence wherof on that was great amongst them once said Camp rat 2. Adhuc durissimae partes Caluini suÌ„t nostrae faciles explicatae Moreouer the ProtestaÌ„ts are verie harsh in this question but our arguments are cleare expedite which whether it be so or noe iudge you The counsell of Trent which they al follow Conc Trid. less 13. can 1. on whom they al depend in this and all other points hath thus defined therof Si quis negauerit c. If anie man shal denie that in the sacrament of the holy Eucharist there is not contained vere realiter substantialiter truly really substantially the body blood together with the soule diuinitie of our Lord sauiour Iesus Christ in that respect whole Christ let him bee accursed negaueritque mirabilem illam singularem conuersionem totius substantiae panis in corpus or shal denie that maruelous only conversion of the whole substance of the bread Can. 2. into the body and of the whole substance of the wine

made partakers of his flesh and blood of the sacrament of the aultar without any transubstantiatioÌ„ of the bread into the body of Christ Vt ante can 8. sacramentally really are a tearmes contrary yet coÌ„founded More ouer they hold that Christ is eaten there sacramentally really which two tearmes as they vtter them are very opposit for if there be nothing to be eaten but the reall substaÌ„tiall body of Christ what is eaten sacramentally Wee affirme that Christ is there sacramentally is eaten sacramentally by his spirit present by his grace as hee is in the sacrament of baptisme that is properly sacramentall Againe speaking of the vse and profite of that sacrament Cap. 8. de vsu admirabilis hu ius sacramenti 1. Sacramentally they say there be three sorts of Receiuers some that receaue it only sacramentally as sinners others spiritually in desire by a liuely faith thirdly those that receaue it sacramentally spiritually both together Which three waies may bee taken for sound Orthodoxall 2. Spiritually who cannot for the time communicate if we could cause them to tell vs what they meane by sacramentally If by sacramentally they mean really fleshly and substantially as at the first they treated of his presence there 3. Sacramentally spiritually who doe coÌ„municate as they ought Ioh. 6.54.56 Sacramentally Spiritually so say the Protestants how doe they make good that sinners and wicked persons doe eate his verie flesh and drinke his verie blood as they saie they doe since the worde of life it selfe that mouth which neuer spake guile hath said He that eateth my flesh drinketh my blood hath eternall life I will raise him vp at the last daie And hee that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood dwelleth in me I in him And by the third waie described that those eate him sacramentally spiritually who doe duly prepare themselues puting on the wedding garmeÌ„t doe come vnto that holy table doth breed an other scruple how sacramentally can stand with spiritually vnderstanding by sacramentally Really substantially may staÌ„d to gether but spiritually cannot as they did before really fleshly substaÌ„tially those two tearmes being also vsed of the Protestants who say the wicked doe eate sacrameÌ„tally only that is the sacrament of his body and bloud the godly sacramentally spiritually that is bread and wine with the hand mouth the body blood by faith and noe otherwise which are the right vse of the words sacramentally spiritually Againe I may demand of them why they doe not describe the presence of Christ to be spiritual sacramental aswel as describe him so to be eaten they saie he is eaten by on of those three waies of al men in generall good bad and to al men good bad they describe him preseÌ„t really truly substantially body soule diuinitie and al yet eaten only sacrementally spiritually now it is not possible to be thought but that the spirituall eating of Christ in the sacrament excludeth the corporall as his spiritual presence wil his corporall or substantiall nether can noe one meat be fit both for the body and soule as al men knowe And therfore if they will dissent from vs not from themselues also they must dispute either of a corporall eating of the flesh of Christ De manducati one corporis domini sit ne illa vera antropica sensibilis an insensibilis modo corporeo an spirituali l. 4. chron fol. 790 Fallacia alia aliaÌ„ trudit Ter. in And. act 4. scen 4. De sac euc l. 1 c. 11. fol. 92. c. 14. fol. 117. l. 2. c. 8. fol. 163 or of a spiritual only as Genebrard confesseth was brought in about Bertrams time almost 800. yeares since not to a corporall to adde a spiritual of one the same thinge nor confound the tearmes of sacramentall spirituall reall Againe it is alwaies seene one absurditie draweth on an other I demand how their tearme of receauing spiritually doth agree with Bellarmine whoe saith that the body of Christ is verily properly eaten in the Eucharist by our body sent froÌ„ the mouth into the stomake that the body of Christ entreth in at the mouth of the communicants and is verily receaued by the mouth of the body small spirituall receauing is there by the instruments of the mouth belly Faith must haue other food if it were so it should not be said Crede manducasti beleiue thou hast eaten but lay hold with thy hand thou art safe The next in authoritie to the Trent Fathers is the Romish Cathechisme gathered by their decree Catec Rom. p. 1. art 6. c. 7. fol 57. The right seÌ„ce of the article ouerthroweth Transubstantiation published by Pius quintus the Pope The catechisme intreating of that article of our beleife He ascended into heauen and suteth one the right hand of god the father almightie doe say the right sense of that article is that the faithful without al doubt ought to be leiue that Christ the mysterie of our redemption being perfected and finished vt homo est in coelum corpore animÃ¢ ascendisse as he is man is ascended in body and soule into heauen For as hee is God hee was neuer from thence Vt qui diuinitate sua loca ominia coÌ„pleat The causes why hee asceÌ„ded ib. fol. 59. The benefits of his ascention ibid. fol. 61 filling al places with his diuinitie And speaking of the causes whie Christ our sauiour would ascend vp into heauen one is beecause by ascending say they hee would bringe to passe that wee should mount vp thither in minde and affection and amongst many benefits which come vnto men by his ascention into heauen they reckon this a great one quod amorem nostrum ad coelum rapuit ac diuino spiritu inflammauit that it draweth our mindes and loue to heauen inflameth them with a diuine spirit for it is truly said There our harte is Marc. 6. where our treasure is surly if Christ our Lord were conuersant in earth omnis nostra cogitation in ipso hominis aspectu consuetudine defixa esset al our cogitations would be placed in the looking maner of him we shold behold him only as man becaus he had don so great things for vs But ascending into heauen it maketh our loue heauenly and causeth that whom wee think of being absent him we worship and loue as God which doctrine of theirs being very sound and Catholike cannot chuse but ouerthrowe their owne opinion of TransubstantiatioÌ„ Catec p. 2. c. 4. fol. 181. which bringeth the same body of Christ that same that was borne of the Virgin which is ascended and sitetth now euer shal at the right hand of his father in heauen to bee transubstantiated into bread to bee contained in the sacrament

as the nature of the word soundeth or said it was the thinge it selfe not a figure sampler similitude since Gregorie Nazianzene as D. Tonstall quoteth him vnto vs In sanctuÌ„ pase l. 2. fol 66. Figura figurae speaking of things done in the old law The arke or the Pascall Lamb saith Pascha legale audenter dicâ— figurae figura erat obscurior the Easter Lamb in the law I speak boldly was an obscure figure of a figure that is a figure of the Eucharist So that touching any substance of matter the Eucharist is noe more the body then the sacrifices sacrameÌ„ts in the law all both theirs ours being referred to Christ on the Crosse To proceed to the obiection made our of Saint Paule Heb. 9.16.25 That the host which is sacrificed by offering must of necessity be reall offered and slaine Canus ibid. ob fol. 404. ex Cal ui Instit l. 4. c. 18. par 5. f. 475 if then in euerie of their Masses Christ be offered in sacrifice in euerie of their Masses he is also slaine therfore ether S. Paules argument is frustrat where he saith Otherwise he ought to suffer ofteÌ„ from the beginning of the world or if Christ be offered in sacrifice he dieth verily and indeed but they al confesse they offer Christs liuing body impassible Can us ibid. fo 421. hee doth well to set the obiection and answere so far a sunder At corpus viuuÌ„ spirans non offerimus ideÌ„ enim in Eucharistia est at que in coelo so at the most they find an oblation they cannot finde a sacrifice To this obiection he seoffingly saith that wee haue found out wherwith to maintaine our counterfeit opinion but hee cannot finde how to ouerthrow so weake an argumer We wil grant saith hee to those that argue against vs that to the perfect offering of the eye ature there must be the death and end of it if it bee truly sacrificed But we offer not a liuely ond breathing bodie such a bodie is in the Euchâ—rist in heauen yet although the body of Christ in the Eucharist be a liuing body the blood bee in the body yet wee doe uether offer the body because it is aliue or the blood because it is in the body but the body in regard it is slaine the blood because it was shed on the Crosse Thus by this answer of his wher before the distinctioÌ„ stood with them of offering the same body which was offered on the crosse and that that body was in the Eucharist but after an other manner then on the Crosse vnbloodily or in a mystery now he confesseth they offer not a liuing body but because it is slaine then there must needs followe death nor the blood as it is in the body but because it was shed on the crosse whie then are they afraid to call their sacrifice bloody but vnbloody if the host be slaine and this argumeÌ„t of Canus haue the Rhemists borowed as they did the former for in their first conflict about this sacrament they professe That they consecrate the seuerall elements Rhem. 26. mat v. 26. shew the sence or meaÌ„ing of this note in anie writer ancient take the whole Dicth in a sacrament iâ— preseÌ„t indeed not into Christs whole person as it was borne of the Virgin or is now in heauen but the brâ—ad into his body a part as betrayed broken and giueÌ„ for vs the wine into his blood apart as shed out of his body for remission of sinnes in which mysticall and vnspeakable manner he would haue the Church to offer and sacrifice him daily he in mistery sacrament dieth though now not only in heauen but also in the sacrament he bee indeed by sequel of al his parts to each other whole aliue immortall Thus monstrously doe they teach now they thinke they haue gotten a sacrifice into their hands But how they offer without blood or with blood whether aliue or dead whether ther same that Christ did either at his supper or on the Crosse that they cannot tel nor with any wordes explaine Their descriptions in these are like that of Syrus in the Poet when he sent one brother to finde an other Teren in Adel. act 4. Scen. 2. Perplexa descriptio but by the derection taken he neuer knewe where to finde him Prâ—terito haÌ„c rectÃ¢ plateÃ¢ sursum vbs eo veneris cliuus deâ—rsum vorsum est Passe right through this street to the ouer part when you come there there is a steepe place towards the lower ende therof run downe this way after that there iâ— on this hand a Chappell and there fast by in a narrow corner A speech ful of perplexitie That they should violate or alter the holy ordinance of God touching Christs sacrifice which was as they say themselues violent The sacrifice of Christ on the Crosse The sacrifice of their Masse painfull bloody into a sacrifice reall true yea and propitiatory which shall bee neither violent painful nor bloody and yet sacrifice his body as betraied broken giuen for vs the blood as shed out of his body that very blood which was in the vaines of his body and yet for him to die in a mystery in a sacrament all to bee done vnbloodily so change the nature substance of that sacrifice which was the purchase redeÌ„ption of the whol world as it is blasphemous for them to teach so haue they brought such phrases and wordes as none can vnderstand vpheld by none but themselues God neuer intended that his sonne should offer himselfe anie more but once and that was with shedding of blood death so must hee be offered or not at all offered Reâ—d 7. 8. 9. 10 cap. to the Hebrewes if we wil speake of a reall offering and areal sacrifice a reall presence and a reall offering a real death caÌ„not be seuered If the ancieÌ„t Church of God had deliuered their doctrine opinions Aug. Epist 23. fere finÃ¨ Christ is nowe offered not in substance but in asacrament or representatioÌ„ of his death D. Allen is out with his owne Catholikes be cause they caÌ„not bring this place of Aug handsomly to Ierue their turne de sac Euch. l. 2. ca. 11 in such confused tearmes as these men doe wee had bin as much to seeke what had bin their mindes in this case as wee are of these men nowe But they were expedite cleare as by their discourses appeareth Nonne semelimmolatus est Christus in scipso Was not Christ saith S. Augustine once offered in himselfe And yet in a sacrament hee is offered for the benefite of the people not every Easter only but euery day Nether doth hee lie when the question is asked answereth Christ is offered daily vnto the people For if sacrameÌ„ts had not a certaine similitude of the things wherof they be sacraments they should bee noe sacraments at al

Plato amicus Aristoteles magis amica veritas Let Plato bee your freind Let Aristotle bee your freind but the truth let it be more your freind for he that betraieth the truth betraieth his owne soule I craue no more of you but that you examine both doctrines before you yeeld your free assent to either if you haue me anie way in suspision ether for my iudgment in concluding against them that I peruert their meaning or that I trecherously abuse their texts I wil if you wil take the paines to shew you every quotation make your selfe iudge in both Tub. I thanke you for your free open offer It were hard to suspect him who yeeldeth such libertie I wil at my further leasure repaire vnto you for such of them as I shall thinke I may most directly charge them with al. Rom. You caÌ„not chuse amisse chuse where you wil they be all true and not one of them but maketh against them in one point or other Al bewraying the weaknes of that cause which that it might be quite ouerthrowen lacketh but to be throughly sifted by wise and iudicious men such as woulde but try and examine it must not bee those who thinke it a tempting of God to read or heare any thinge that shal make against them And as I haue giueÌ„ you testimonie of their dealing in this point of the sacrament so if you wil but harken to that more which I shall deliuer I will shew you that in other things as in that they deale absurdly confusedly weakly doe euen goe from their owne grounds although like theÌ„selues in all yet not like such as they would make the world beleeue they are And will verie clearlie plainly proue vnto you without sending you to their quotations when they cannot be found as they doe in most they doe that it is only true against them which they plead against vs that there are with them Iesuita TorreÌ„sis in epistol dedicator in conf August no principles but those of Protagoras which was that that should be true which euery one would allow and that there is no rule amongst theÌ„ but the leaden Lesbian rule which will turne euerie way And because I wil giue you as little breath as I can I will begin with the Iesuite himselfe first who so chargeth vs and ether proue his ground false and his tongue too too lauish or elsâ— his freinds verie vnfreindly towards him who wil not let his word stand but disanull it and make it of no force In the preface of that worke of his which hee hath intituled S. Augustines confessioÌ„s as though al that he had there laid down were indeed S. Augustines both for the bookes named Iesuit vt ante Praises giuen to S. Augustine by the Iesuite and the questions handled hee hath wonderfully praised that ancient father as indeed hee did deserue verie much in the Church of God euen so much that to drawe it into a breese he saith whatsoeuer S. Augustine doth deliuer was not the doctrine or teaching of any one prouince or kingdoÌ„e alone but the vniuersall consent and approbation of the whole catholike Church and which did not continue allowed for the space of three or foure huÌ„dred yeares but hath bin receiued stood firme in the world these thousand yeares Hee was saith he a sincere and true witnesse of the Catholike faith Omni exceptione maiorem qui non de sua tantum sed de communi antiquoruÌ„ patrum Apostolicae ecclesiae constanti atque stabili consessione nos bona fide reddat certiores beyond al exception one that did not only deliuer what was his owne iudgment in anie thinge But what was his was also the common consent of the ancient fathers Apostolike Church and who was free from parciallitie touching either part in whatsoeuer he wrot The Church had a Pastor and Bishop of him in the dexteritie of whose wit posteritie did wonder at the soundnes of his doctrine at his knowledge in the holy scripture at his subtiltie in disputing at his constancie in maintaining at his wisdome in iudging at his holinesse in liuinge at his singular faith industrie in accomplishing In the end he admonisheth his reader to repaire to S. Augustines bookes as to the fountaine and draw from him the confession of the true faith and Catholike Doctrine Be it vnto Torrensis al those that so loue S. Augustine as he hath said I wil say nothing now to the coÌ„trary More you see caÌ„not be said of the maÌ„ But what if these very men who so much praise him now in a generallitie in a good mood doe when they are vrged with his opinion in a particular point of doctrine with the same breath blow hot and cold are these men not like our common slanderers in these daies that hold no man for honest any longer then he pleaseth them when indeed the more a man doth please them the more dishonest he is which consisteth only in following their brutish and beastly affections no more sauouring of Christianitie theÌ„ their stables and dogge kennels doe of Ciuet or perfume An instance against the Iesuite I will giue preseÌ„tly S. Paul writing vnto the Corinthians speaking of the Iews in the time of the law saith they did eate the saÌ„e spirituall meate 1. Cor. 10.1.2.3 vers The same spiritual meat and did drinke of the same spiritual drinke for they dranke of the spirituall rocke that followed them and the rocke was Christ Now the question is whether S. Paule meant they dranke of it amongst themselues or that they and wee had one in common betweene vs The Iewish sacraments and ours in substance al one which is Christ We say that the Iewish sacrameÌ„ts were in effect substance all one with ours and that the spiritual meat of theirs was Christ the Messias to be crucified the outward signes differ they had Manna and we the bread of the Eucharist which is plainly S. Paules drift in that place not to speak of what they had amoÌ„ge themselues but only that they we had one Christ in diuers different signes The Rhemists offended at this Annot. 1. cor 10. verse 3. yet knowing not how to amend themselues but by railing for quotations should not haue wanted if they could haue told where to haue founde them doe saie that it is an impudent forgery of the Calvinists to write vpon that place that the Iewes receaued no lesse the truth and substance of Christ and his benefits in their figures The Iewes among themselues did all eate of one spiritual meat or sacraments then we doe in ours and that they and we eate and drinke of the selfe same meate and drinke the Apostles saying only that they amonge themselues did all feed of one bread drinke of one rocke This say they turning the Apostles wordes and meaning to a cleane contrarie sense But how shal it be knowen besides

of the celebrating of that one councel Sanders againe in an other place 5. Sand. declaue Dauid I. 4. sol 81. The cosent of the bishop of Rome preambulateth from the matter before hee come to it thus Although the consent of the bishop of Rome alwaies had obtained did confirme the summoning of a general couÌ„sell yet that in a great matter no error should creep in it was the order that the Pope should send his letters to the Emperour touching that matter As who shuld say the Pope commanded the Emperour to summon counsells and then the Emperour having received those letters did by his own letters assemble the bishops wherevpon the bishops assembled at Constantinople do write vnto Damasus in these words you did send for vs as for meÌ„bers of your owne body by the letters of the most holy Emperour to come vnto the counsel which is gathered togither at Rome by the wil pleasure of God And a little after By the commandement of letters from your holinesse sent the last yere vnto the Emperor Theodosius after the councel held at Aquila wee prepared our selues only for our iourney to Constantinople It therefore appeareth saith Sanders from this testimony That there were two Councels holden at once one at Rome the other at Constantinople and to both of them the Pope sent for those bishops by the letters of the Emperour Thus much from Sanders in that place of that matter 6. Staplet ret oâ— untruths art 4. fol. 139. D. Stapleton an other of that side maintaining the Popes soveraignety is no more abashed to abuse the history than those other haue done in the places going before For saith hee Those bishops of Constantinople doe write-vnto Damasus the Pope and shewing a cause of there not coÌ„ming to Rome do further say vnto him That they had assembled themselues but lately at Constantinople by the late letter of your honor sent after the councell holden in Aquilicato the most Godly Emperour Theodosius Letters from your honor which was the reason why they could not come to Rome Now touching this present matter saith he the bishops here doe witnesse that to that counsel of Rome the Pope called them by the letters of the Emperour not as a warrant they haue no such word but rather as a meane For they witnes he calleth theÌ„ as his proper members Bellar. thrise Saund. twise already Staplet once 7. 8 and. de vifib monar l. 7. fol. 312. num 145. 146. The whole masse of falsehood is diseouered The Easterne bishops write to all the bishops of the West and so the letters go in the plurall number This it the sixt canvasse they haue had touching this place of Theodoret The seauenth set downe by Sanders in a thirde place of his booke will quite overthrow both himselfe and them being inlighted a little by the history which they al haue most shamefully abused For in this third place of his hee hath bewraied their shameful dealing There he confesseth that the Bishops of the East did write to other bishops of the West and namely to Ambrose aswel as to Damasus not to him alone as hitherto they al made vs beleeue they did and there he confesseth more over that the Easterne bishops receiued a letter from the Westerne gathered togither at Rome in which letter they were praied to come thither and that in their answere back they declare that all the westerne bishoppes sent for them by letters from the most holie Emperour But saith he further it appeareth from this place that the first beginning of a general counsel is the bishop of Rome but the meanes which the Pope vseth in that matter is to call them by the Emperours letters This is all their report that I finde of this matter I would now but aske them this questioÌ„ whether they tell vs thus much because they beleeue it or beleeue is because they tell it vs If they tell it vs as beleeuing it themselues we can say no otherwise of them than of him that did accustome to tel lies so fast to others that in the end he tooke them for truthes himselfe if they beleeue it because they tell it vs our incredulity in this case shal do them good in aduising theÌ„ not to beleeue that wee will any more take the reporte of any such matter vpon their words so that if our deniall wil profit them I assure theÌ„ I will not credit them in any thing without due evidence of the iustnesse of it Ter. in Eunuc act 2. scen 1. Nihil aliud quam Philumenam volo And therefore I giue them the councel in the Poet quoniam id fieri quod voluâ—t non potest velint id quod possit since they caÌ„not haue what they would that they woulde take what they may But they answere they would haue nothing but the Bishop of Romes supremacy I say again as the Poet saith in that place it were much better for theÌ„ to leaue that fansie rather than by this palpable fraud to go about to perswade it Al their inferences from that text of Theodoret are false and merely suggested either of the Popes power in calling that counsell of Constantinople or of their writing to Damasus oulie to Damasus or that they called him their head or that they confessed themselues his proper members as they haue abused the history The writing which the bishops of the East sent to them of the West is called The true report out of Theodorete eccles l. 5. c. â— Libellus Sinodicus Ã Concilio Constantinopolitano ad Episcopas missus The Councel of Constantinoples declaration sent vnto the Bishops The superscription is Dominis honoratissimis cum primis reverendis fratribus ac collegis Damaso Ambrosio Brittoni valeriano Acholio Avemio Basilio et cateris sanct is Episcopis To the most renowned Reverend bretheren fellowes and most especial reverend brethren and fellows Damasus Ambrose Briton Valerian Acholius Avemius Basill and the rest of the holy bishops gathered togither in the famous citty of Rome The holy councell of Catholike bishops gathered togither in the famous citty of Constantinople send health in our Lord. Num quid nam hic quod nolis Ter in Eunuc act 2. scen 2. vides Bellarmine Is there any thing here Ã´ Bellarmine that thou wouldest not see Yes neither me nor that which I haue brought Where do they write to Damasus Where do they acknowledge him the head they the members Where be the letters sens froÌ„ his honor All this like religious and loving fathers to the Church of God they confesse each to other because they consented in one catholike doctrine were of one Catholike church though divided by East and West whose head is Christ as S. Paule saith Ephes 4.5 One Lord one faith one baptisme But if you wil speake of what they were in respect of themselues and their authoritie over each other SozoÌ„ l. 6. c.

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