preserved the Antient faith and Discipline we shall necessarily be obliged to a Communion with that Church because a separation from it will be a manifest Apostacy and Schism from the most certainly one true Catholick Church and consequently from Christ himself 22. Now that the present Roman Church does at this day profess the very same Doctrines and is governed by the same Laws that were in force in St. Gregories dayes will as seems to us evidently appear both from his Writings the Ecelesiastical Writers since and the Antient English Councils as likewise by the acknowledgment of several learned Protestants To this purpose Doctor Humphreys Humphr Jesuitis in par 2. rat 5. p. 5. 627. writes thus In Ecclesiam verò quid invexerunt Gregorius Augustinus Onus ceraemoniarum c. that is But now what have Gregory and Austin brought into the Church A burden of Ceremonies c. the Archiepiscopal Pall to be used at Solemn Mass Purgatory c. the Oblation of the Holy Host and prayers for the Dead c. Relicks c. Transubstantiation c. new Consecrations of Churches c. To these particulars Carion a Chronologist Carion Chron. l. 4. p. 567. adds the publick Rite of Invocation of Saints a false perswasion concerning a Monastical profession works devised without any precept of God satisfactions vowes c. And whereas saith he Gregory himself did tragically declaim and profess his abhorring the Title of Universal Bishop yet in reality he declared that himself did vehemently desire the thing signified by that Title since he took upon him a commanding power over other Churches To these may be added the Centuriators of Magdeburg Bale c. who mention these and other particular Doctrines as Novelties introduced by St. Gregory 23. Hence if our Adversaries speak truth it will evidently follow that since there are now differences between the Eastern and Western Churches all the alterations and innovations have been made by the Greek Church only 24. Do you not now see Mr Bagshaw what Religion that is the professours whereof you as far as your vote extends expose to the Butchery whence is apparent that if you had been a leader of a party able to execute your cruel intentions in S. Gregories dayes you would like a very Antichrist have laid wast the whole Church of Christ and murdred all that were called by his name There wants only this to crown your zeal that you should cry out Their blood be upon us and upon our children Thus would you have treated S. Augustin and his fellow Monks you I say that the less Charity you have esteem your selves the more perfect Christians and Saints you would have condemn'd to Gallowses quartering of members and burning of bowels those innocent persons that exposed themselves to all incommodities for the salvation of our Country when as our Pagan Ancestors though Slaves of Devils yet treated them with all humanity Take heed they do not rise in judgment against you I am sure in that great Judgment you shall not rise to condemn them for this sin 1. THus Sir I have performed as much as I promised in the beginning and truly I promised more then your Book deserved In which I found so very small a proportion of Reason employed that I may perhaps incur censure for mispending time about a Discourse that would not indanger the misleading of any I must therefore plainly tell the Reader that it was only your passion Your cruelly malicious suggestions that I intended to oppose That is your proper Engin to do mischief with to prevent which a Christian compassion to thousands of innocent peaceable souls whose destruction your passion designes does require all honest mens endeavours and care You acknowledge enlightned reason for your only Principle but I find that which You call by such a name to be nothing else but a restless fancy swelling with self opinion and inflamed with almost all sorts of inordinate passions sharpned against all moderate persons both Protestants and Catholicks that is against all that have any sence of Duty to the King or love of peace among Christians 2. Now as among Protestants You thought fit to single out only two Doctour Gunning and Mr. Thorndike through whose sides You would wound all that are not as furious against peace as your self So among Catholicks likewise there are two my Lord the Earle of Earle of Bristow Fiat Lux Bristow and the Authour of Fiat Lux against whom you have thrust forth a forked sting armed with poyson enough but wanting strength to make that poyson enter I hope his Lordship will pardon a stranger yet an admirer of his most eminent abilities and vertues for taking notice without order from him of your malicious reflexions upon him which might be prejudicial to his Honour were it not that it comes from a person that I am assured he will never dignify with answering 3. You reckon his Lordship in the Catalogue of those who have shewed the vanity and uselessness of Allegations Preface of Authorities of Fathers and Councils c. And because say you it is possible that the example of that Honourable Person may be urged against me since his present practise doth contradict his former principles I will only add this that since his book is not yet answered by himself I hope he thinks it unanswerable and will not long continue in communion with that Church whose foundations he hath so well overthrown An Admirable passage this is fit for no pen but Mr. Bagshaws 4. That his Lordship has not yet publish'd an Answer to a Writing of his own sufficiently confuted by his practise I should rather think you might have imputed to such as your self These are not times for any of his Lordships present perswasion in matters of Religion to multiply unnecessary controversies of that Nature And however your self and your party afford such as his Lordship is business enough to exercise all their abilities prudence and skill in opposing your secret workings and open calumnies by demonstrating that a change in his perswasion about points of faith doth make no change at all in his Fidelity And thus much his Lordship in the name of all Catholicks to your great grief has performed with that sincerity candour and energy that I am confident there is not a Protestant that shall read your infamous aspersions cast upon Catholick Religion touching the matter of Loyalty but will look upon them as the last effects of the desperate rage of one that takes pleasure in mere calumniating without any expectation to be believ'd 5. And truly Sir if you had taken to task the making the World believe that in your Sect Christian Charity is esteemed a mortal sin you could not have better effected your design then by saying as you have done I hope his Lordship thinks his Book unanswerable c. For shame change this phrase I hope c. It would have been an impudence not to
Nay I may truly say that even we Roman Catholicks are much concerned in it and therefore I may be pardoned if I insist upon it because unless this question be resolved all our disputes with Protestants are likely to prove meer beating of the air contentions utterly wandring from the purpose Therefore I may be excused if I take the trouble upon me to resolve it and this I must do not upon Catholick grounds or notions of the phrase being members of a Church but only the notions which Protestants and generally all Sects divided from the Catholicks have entertained of that phrase For Catholicks do not esteem any one a member of the Roman Catholick Church that doth not profess all Doctrines without exception taught by it to be true and submits not to all the Lawes and Ordinances of it There is no distinction to be made as to this matter between Doctrines in themselves Fundamental or non-Fundamental between Lawes in themselves necessary or not because a refusal to accept any one of those Lawes or Doctrines does vertually destroy the Authority of the Church of how little concernment so ever such a Doctrine or Ordinance be in it self There may be differences and even dissentions among Catholicks about points of far greater moment in themselves and yet neither of the parties be in danger of being excluded from the Title of Catholiks or members of the Roman Catholick Church because the Churches Authority has not interposed it self in those disputes either way and therefore is untouched by either 11. But generally all Congregations divided from the Catholick have a quite different conceit of the Phrase being Members of a Church And this conceit is either general or more special According to the general conception of that phrase they acknowledge all to be members of their Church or rather co-members of the Church of Christ that do not teach doctrines or make ordinances excluding all right and interest in the common salvation and thus English protestants esteem themselves members of the Catholick Church and Lutherans of the Calvinists Church and you Presbyterians Independents c. of the English protestant Church because they do not deny a possibility of salvation to one another notwithstanding the differences among them 12. The second and more special notion of the phrase being Members of a Church entertained by all particular Congregations not Catholick does import an external conformity in all Doctrines without exception and all practises determined by each congregation respectively a renunciation of any excluding the refusers from an external communion and participation of the priviledges of that Congregation who notwithstanding may be acknowledged to be almost in as good a condition as to salvation as those are which exclude them from their external Communion Thus Lutherans are not Calvinists though they believe Calvinists may meet them in heaven because they will not admit them to their communion Thus you Presbyterians and Independents c. are no English protestants as long as you are Non-Conformists Let the differences between you be never so small as wearing a Surplice Kneeling at Communion c. if these Ceremonies be established by Lawes Ecclesiastical or Civil the non-submission to them is a manifest dividing from that Church and the less considerable the quarrels are the greater is the guilt of those that publickly dispute or write against that Church of which they desire to be thought members True it is you would seem to have some reason to complain against the English Church if for such trifling differencies only they should pronounce you excommunicated from Christs Mystical Body though they must give me leave to say That by not doing so but acknowledging your Congregations to be members of the Church they do manifestly conclude themselves guilty of Schisme by such a communication with you whom they cannot deny to be Schismaticks But it would be ridiculous in you to accuse them of Tyranny for excluding you from their External Communion when you your selves will not embrace it They do not pretend to an Authority to oblige you in conscience to believe that their Doctrines are true and their Ordinances just but they would be no Church they would renounce all Order if they did not maintain the laws and customes with so great deliberation and after so many disputes with you framed and renewed Where there is no Uniformity even in external matters there is no Church but a Babel If at Communion some should sit others stand others lye along as our Lord did and others kneel if some should be bare-headed others with their hats on would it looke like an assembly of men that served God Therefore complain not but rather thank God and them if they force not your consciences but permit you to abstain from things you do not like and to practice among your selves things you like better But to expect to be acknowledged members of a Church whilst you refuse to submit to the authority of that Church in things of themselves not evil much more whilst you write publickly against them is to desire them not to pretend to the name of a Church Therefore I conclude that you Mr. Bagshaw are no more a member of the English Church then I am and my proofe is this very Preface of your Book that I now write against Your saying that Episcopacy is lawful or your being ordained by Bishops signifies nothing as long as you disobey them you are none of their subjects 13. However I cannot blame you if in despight of English protestants themselves you will needs be called English protestants For if being as really you are no true members of the English Church you were treated as such that is excluded from a participation of the emoluments of it and obliged to a separated exercise of your ill-natur'd Religion two great incommodities would ensue to you and withal two as proportionably great benefits to them and the whole Nation 14. For First What pittiful Congregations would you in a short time appear to be At present your numbers especially in Cities and Towns are not unconsiderable Whereas if being no members of the English Church you were excluded from participating Tithes Benefices and other preferments not at all due to you and had no other maintenance but the Voluntary contributions of your own party you would quickly find that Party weary of you and become rather content to hear a sermon in the Church and wholesome prayers in a Surplice then to pay so much overplus for far worse stuffe in a parlour from a short cloak and no cassack 15. The Second Mortification thence flowing would be yet more intolerable Hitherto the facility of Bishops giving you leave to call your selves English protestants and members of their Church enables you to defile their Churches by doing your own businesse in them to their great prejudice and danger In their pulpits you cry down Ceremonies you preach against their government you sow sedition in the hearts of their flock
set pen to Paper to answer you since if you be never so evidently confuted you are excused from yielding by saying you have said a very little but could have said more and Catholicks are forbidden to yield since they have a world of proofs to demonstrat the Infallibility of the Church far more efficacious then these one or two Texts of Scripture called out by you for your best advantage And even these Texts as they are produced and made use of by Catholicks are unanswerable especially to those that think it reasonable to admit that to be the sence of Scripture which all antiquity has given which all protestants and all reasonable men do They could not foresee that there could arise a Disputant so void of reason as Mr. Bagshaw to whom the whole consent of all Ages of the Church all Councils and Fathers appeared light and inconsiderable if compared with his single reason Therefore till you have proved that Ground demonstratively that is turned sand into a Rock you are not in a capacity either to object or answer 6. And to the end you may set upon such a work to some purpose I pray please to enquire out a Book called Exomologesis or Motives of the Conversion c. where your great Lanista Mr. Chillingworths reasons for such a position are pretended to be answered and in an Appendix to that Book You will find an Examination of the Fundamental Grounds of my Lord Faulklands Discourse on that Subject These are the men you brag of in Your Preface as your great Patrons that is indeed such Protestants as you are that lay such grounds as utterly demolish the whole structure of the English church denying that any Authority upon Earth can oblige any man And this very thing I mean the destruction of the Church of England you Preface your self confesse in your Preface to have Preface been the Design of your small Treatise though written against Papists adding that Nothing can be more unreasonable ib. then this that those Churches or Church-Rulers should Lord it over the Faith or conscientious perswasion of other men who are not certain but they may err and be deceived themselves For that would be to take the Pope's Chair and succeed into his room 7. This therefore having been by your self acknowledged your Design I must repeat what I have already said That the English Bishops and Clergy are far more interessed in your Book for all the Title be only against Catholicks then Catholicks are But as to this horrible position of Yours which utterly destroys all Order and peace Let me tell You that to particular Churches and Church-Rulers if they be members of the Catholick Church infallibility is not at all necessary to make their Doctrines or Orders obliging even in conscience Because all their subjects whilest they remain so are bound I do not say to believe internally but not to contradict their declared Doctrines and to submit to their Orders the refusing of either perhaps not damning but certainly excluding the refusers from an outward communion with that Church So that here you plainly exerto Capite tell the World you are no English protestant though perhaps you would fain have an English Benefice and preach against order in English pulpits 8. Now as for that Great Question of the Infallibility of the Church which You consider only as the conceit of some few Catholicks if You have a mind to write any thing to the purpose to prevent Your mistaking if that be a possible thing give a well-wishing friend leave to informe you in general That there is extant no formal Decision of the Church touching her own infallibility Notwithstanding all Catholicks are bound to acknowledge her to be infallible by a necessary consequence of an essential Article of the Creed Which consequence You may conceive to be thus deduced viz. 9. First it is an Article of our Creed Credo unam Sanctam Catholicam Apostolicam Ecclesiam that is I believe one and but One holy Catholick and Apostolick Church By which Article sincerely professed the person declaring himself a Christian signifies a necessity of his being truly a member in Communion with that One Church and consequently renounces all other Congregations and all Ecclesiastical Communion with persons divided from that One Church 10. In the Second Place Your only Guide common sence and reason tells us that a multitude cannot be called One Society except they be joyned and linked together by a Government and Lawes common to all And therefore the whole Catholick Church being indeed one Body as St. Paul sayes and one General Congregation it must necessarily have both general Rulers and Common lawes universally obliging which does not at all hinder but that under and within that general Congregation there may be many distinct Societies enjoying particular Lawes Priviledges and Rulers upon condition they do not contradict nor refuse to submit to the said general Laws Tribunals and Governours 11. Thirdly our Lord having expressly promised to preserve and continue this Church as one Society to the end of the World so as that the Gates of Hell shall never prevail against it it followes undeniably that he has provided sufficient and efficacious means to preserve this unity for otherwise one Article of the Creed might happen to fail 12. In the fourth place since universal Experience both in Humane and Divine matters testifies that never any Writing Law or Science could yet be so expressed but that being left to the wits enlightned Reason and interests of particular men to descant upon them there would follow differences of sences and interpretations and consequently Divisions and separated interests destructive to unity to provide against which the only possible remedy hath alwaies been acknowledged to be the constituting of an External lasting Authority of Judges and Magistrates Hence it is that the Supreme Tribunal of a General Council has evermore hitherto been confessed by all Christians to be the only preservative against a breach in the universal Church and because it cannot alwaies be possible to summon such an Assembly therefore by way of provision the supreme Pastour of the Church hath alwaies exercised in matters that concern the common Faith and Discipline an Authority if not to decide at least to compose and silence all differences in Opinions c. and to put in Execution the Ordinances of precedent Councils 13. Now if You will discourse to any purpose in opposition to this as I know You have a great Tooth against it You must either demonstrate that there is no need at all that controversies should be composed and Schismes healed Or if You cannot do this You must contradict the Experience of all mankind by shewing that Judges are not necessary to end Law-suites that writings alone with enlightned reason will do the business and especially that above all Lawes and Sciences the Holy Scriptures that are in some places infinitely obscure and in plain places compiled in
Calvinistical dregs and poison were instilled into it he might upon warrantable terms procure a Re-union with the Catholick Church But how should this Re-union be made By giving up to Roman Catholicks all the points of English Doctrins and Discipline No such matter But this he knew That in Books of Controversy among ten Points disputed there are not two wherein either of the Churches are interested and that most of the few real Substantial differences might be qualified by a moderate interpretation and condescendence 11. But whensoever such a business as this is either agitated or talked of you Mr. Bagshaw and your party smile and deride us poor Roman Catholicks as if we vainly framed to our selves great hopes and advantages by such good Christian designes or Writings of Protestants But truly you are deceived We indeed as we ought are glad purely for their sakes that either designe or write sincerely and ingenuously in matters of Religion But such designs and Writings are harmeful to us in our present condition and the reason is plain because they being the works of particular persons without any publick commission of persons that have no sufficient influence upon the whole English Church and State they produce little effect On the contrary they give only an opportunity to such malicious tongues and pens as Yours to Alarme the whole Kingdome both against them and us 12. But if it would please his sacred Majestie or the Parliament to allow a modest Conference not Dispute between a certain number of sober learned English Protestants and Catholicks by means of which a clear view might be given what the peculiar Doctrines by Authority established on both sides are and what place may be allowed for moderate Interpretations and Condescensions in all probability the success could not but be most happy the whole Kingdome yea all Christendom would stand in a maze to see what an inestimable blessing has been so long wanting to England and how little cause there was it should be refused How would the Civil and Ecclesiastical State of these nations be established and united in interests with all the Christian world almost How free should we all be from the least danger of being infected with the venom of Sectaries and how secure from their designes For then they would to all eyes appear in their distinct bodies it would be seen who how many and how qualified they are and permission being allowed them for a private liberty of exercising their Religions respectively any succeeding tumults would be both easily repressed and their cause appear inexcusable In a word Religion as it might by common Advice be setled in this Kingdom would deserve to be the envy and pattern to all the world besides being easily freed from many abuses much complained of but hard to be rectified in other Catholick Countries 13. And whence comes the obstruction to so inconceivable and universal a blessing as this but meerly from such English Protestants as You and Your partie are permitted to call your selves From You it proceeds that the Ecclesiasticks of this Kingdom have not hitherto so much as endeavoured to convert us Roman Catholicks to their Religion They have been unwilling to be informed what the true Differences between us and themselves are As if true Reformed Religion did formally consist in a blind heady and voluntary breach of Unity with all Churches before them They have condescended to admit conferences with Sects whose peculiar complexion consisting in an incompossibility with their government renders them irreconcileable unless they yield up both their Faith and Estates Yea for such Enemies satisfaction if any thing could satisfie them they have submitted to alterations even in their Church office and Discipline Lastly to content such English Protestants as You they have connived at your defiling altering and destroying that which heretofore was called and by Law still is truly the English Protestant Religion As will appear even by what You are suffered here to write against eminent persons of their Church 14. You proscribe and expose to publick hatred Doctour Gunning and Master Doctour Gunning Thorndike as persons that would seduce English subjects to Popery And what are your Proofs Forsooth Doctour Gunning has preached before the King and since printed and beyond your skill to disprove has demonstrated that the Lent fast is an Apostolical Institution Where lies the Popery It is You say against express scripture But is it therefore popery Do no Sects contradict express Scripture but Roman Catholicks Behold the natural Logick of a Fanatick However let this express scripture be produc'd Non liquet either in your Text or Margin Well at least say You it is against an Act of Parliament Let me ask You and Your fellowes a Question Will You be content to stand to all Acts of Parliament both as to their Prefaces and Clauses as Declarations of Faith and this under the penalty of being esteemed Papists Then I here denounce You a Papist For has not the whole Liturgy and Discipline of the English Church been ratified by Acts of parliament But what will You say to an Act of Parliament that has declared and like a Heretick burnt Your Covenant as a damned trayterous conspiracie Take heed therefore You be not found your self a papist As for the Lent fast You know that by the Lawes of the Kingdom Bishops are appointed the exacters and dispensers of the Observance of Lent which shewes it to be esteemed an Ecclesiastical observance as well as Civil So that I believe Dr. Gunning is in little danger from your charge 15. God send Mr. Thorndike as good a deliverance For his Charge consists M. Thorndike of more then one or two or three points of Accusation and every one of them seems to have an air of popery Let them be examined First say you he tells us in print that the Pope is not Antichrist Item That Papists are not Idolaters Item by consequence that all are Schismaticks who upon that score do refuse Communion with them These are terrible points against good Mr. Thorndike Yet alas not all his popery neither 16. A time was when such as You Mr. Bagshaw could both undoe and destroy English subjects meerly upon an accusation of Popery without proofe God be thanked it is otherwise now Therefore You ought at least to have produced some proofes that these Assertions are direct popery But not having done it let me advise you what kind of proofes will be expected You must know therefore that it is a Law of the English Church that whatsoever is found in the Antient Canons and is not expressly revoked by Ecclesiastical Authority in England is to be esteemed still in force And common sence and reason will tell you that before you can by such allegations as these prove any one to have deserted the English Churches doctrine and be turned a papist you must produce some Authentick Declaration of this Church by which the Pope is decided to be Antichrist and
the Papists Idolaters But that is impossible for you to do You will perhaps to little purpose cite the names of certain Calvinistical Writers that as you hypocritically called themselves English Protestants but withall you will take notice that all very Protestants have laughed at them some have been angry and demonstrated the direct Negative If you were a live member of the English Church you would know that the English Church would be no Church if the Pope were Antichrist and the Papists Idolaters For would you acknowledg that to be a Church that enjoyes her whole Authority and Jurisdiction from Antichrist and Idolaters Is she not rather a member and abortive of Antichrist This is plain reason Mr. Bagshaw and consequently the inference is undeniable That all are schismaticks who upon that score do refuse communion with the Roman Church 17. You proceed against Mr. Thorndike He insinuates say you that we may lawfully pray for the Dead Your proof I told you that this is against Protestancy must be to shew where the English Church has repealed the Antient Canons commanding Prayer for the Dead That will be a hard task On the contrary You your selves object against the Common-Prayer-Book that there is a clause in it that not only insinuates it to be lawful but actually exercises prayer for the dead And you know that within the time of the four first General Counsels received in England above twelve hundred years ago your Progenitors were by the Universal Church declared Hereticks for denying it Yea moreover that there was never extant any Liturgy or Missal in the Church of Christ Eastern or Western wherein there were not prayers for the dead 18. You go on Mr. Thorndike against the Doctrine of the Church of England saies That we may expect some benefit by the prayers of souls departed I suppose holy soules are meant Where does the Church of England contradict this nay more except you will acknowledg your self to be a Socinian and deny that the souls of dead persons have any subsistence at all with perception and use of rational faculties you your self will not be so shameless as to deny what you here lay to Mr. Thorndikes charge For I know none that call themselves Christians except Socinians but acknowledg that the glorified Saints do pray at least in general for the Church Militant Now if they all do pray for us all will you not permit us to expect some benefit by their prayers Must we maintain that all their prayers are to no purpose O but you infer That this in time may easily be improved to our praying unto them As for this inference which is not your defendants but only your own give me leave to tell you That if you believe that the Saints pray for the Church in general it would be no hard matter by one Syllogisme to oblige you to acknowledge that we may pray to God that he would hear and grant their prayers making them beneficial to us And now search all the Solemn Offices and Missals of the Roman Church mark the prayers that occurrs every Saints Feast you will find no other formes but such as that The prayer is alwayes directed to God alone immediately and he is desired to grant us such and such blessings by the intercession of such Saints And if in less solemne Devotions as Litanies Antiphons c. we say Sancte Maria Sancte Michael Sancte Petre ora pro nobis we are by the Church obliged to no other meaning then as before and we imitate express Scripture Laudate Deum omnes Angeli ejus omnes Sancti ejus c. Cardinal Perron will assure you that our prayers to Saints is only prier pour prier a devout wishing that they would pray for us And truly for my part I do heartily wish all the Saints in heaven to intercede in their prayers with God that he would vouchsafe to give you and us all a sincere love both to truth and peace 19. I have reserved your most criminal charge till the last which you thus express If it be not the intent of some to returne into Aegypt I cannot imagine Preface what means the crying up of that great Diana of the Papists the Churches authority and making that the sole interpreter of Scripture What Religion can you possibly be of and talk thus You in your own person standing alone are not a Church If you be but one member of a Church what ever it be as long as you are so you are subject to it it must have Authority over you the Spirit of one Prophet must be subject to an assembly of Prophets are you an Independent much freedom is implyed in that Title yet I believe your Lay Church will think it has authority enough to oblige you not to interpret Scripture for the advantage of that court of Inquisition the Classes of the Presbytery Are you a Presbyterian Your private reason shall be yoaked and chained with bonds strong enough and heavy enough to keep it from stirring to the prejudice of the Holy brethren and Sisters But you will needs call your self an English Protestant and yet will dare to revile all the Authority in your Church boldly protesting that it shall not interpret Scripture for you Your private reason shall over-master it Unless it confesse it self to be no Church that is to have no Authority to oblige its members to receive the sence of scripture from her you will be revenged by bellowing aloud This is the crying up of the great Diana of the Papists Truly I must needs say the Church of England is a very patient Church if she suffer you to speak this Bedlam language and injoy a Benefice too 20. But you do well though you mean very ill when you call this the Diana of the Papists Since you imply that a true obliging Authority if any where can only be found in the Catholick Church As for Sects that have no Succession of Ordination for such to assume Authority and Jurisdiction in matters of Religion is ridiculous even to common sence for it implies that to be men which have an ordinary use of reason is a sufficient qualification to become Ecclesiastical Teachers and Governours The Clergy of England challenging a lawful Ordination have some pretension to a real Authority and if they could justify themselves free from the guilt of Schisme even we Roman Catholicks could not deny but their Authority would oblige in conscience and under the penaltie of damnation because then it would be an Authority participating that of the whole Catholick Church and acting in union with it But of this somewhat more in the last part of this Discourse 21. I do apprehend Mr. Bagshaw that if you make any reply to this you will instead of speaking to the purpose endeavour to aggravate the cause of Doctour Gunning and Mr. Thorndike by saying at adventure that there is a secret intelligence between the Papists and them and that they do
mutually maintain one anothers quarrells On the other side I am not without suspicion that some even of my own belief and Church will think that it did not become a Catholike to busy himself with justifying the writings of protestants especially when he endeavours to shew that such Writers are no Catholicks though the particular points taught by them be real Catholick verities 22. Now to both these I must say that I never had the happiness to know or see either Doctour Gunning or Mr. Thorndike never was there any message or intelligence between us But my only Motive to write as I have done was to comply with that precept of God Pacem veritatem diligite Love peace and Truth As a true faithful English subject I could not see so professed a disturber of peace without reproving him As a catholick I could never hope what I am bound to desire and aim at that both truth and peace would find admittance into England by any endeavours either of Protestants or Catholicks till it was apparent what the true grounds of our separation are and this never will be known till other Sects be made to blush when they impudently and perniciously both to the Church and State call themselves English protestants and pretend to be judges of what is to be esteemed in the English Church Catholick Doctrine 23. Therefore for a conclusion of this argument touching your charge against Dr. Gunning and Mr. Thorndike I will once more protest that unless either the Civil or Ecclesiastical Authority do in time provide against such writers as you the whole Kingdom in a very short space will be in iminent danger to become a mere Babel For if it shall be permitted to such men to defame any English Doctour or Writer that shall not conspire in all the furious positions of Presbyterians Independents c. against the Catholick Church there will not be a Bishop or sober Divine in England that will not be at your mercy both for his fame and subsistence nay his life also when you can either raise a tumult or which is more dreadful a new Tribunal of Justice III. That Mr. Bagshaws attempt to render only the Roman Catholick Subjects in an incapacity of Toleration is in it self most groundless and in his mouth most ridiculously malicious 1. WEE poor Roman Catholicks could not but be strangely surprised to see such a Protestant of the Church of England as you Mr. Bagshaw are to become our Advocat and to beg our pardon saying How ill an opinion soever I have both of the Papists Religion Preface and of the unchristian waies they take to propagate it yet far be it from me to wish that amongst us they may suffer the same hard measure which I know by their Principles they are alwaies ready to inflict For so much do I desire their conversion which can never be sincere unless it be voluntary and unconstrained and so little fear their power of seducing since their greatest strength lies in the ignorance of their followers rather then in the cunning of their guides that I heartily wish all penal Lawes against them were utterly taken away For I never yet saw any Argument that could clearly evince why any sort of men who would profess a peaceable subjection unto the Civil Government might not in all their Civil Rights be protected by it 2. What a kind wish is here and a reason for it truly unanswerable Indeed here is Charity a point too high to be believed sincere Therefore to the end your Charity may be rational do not deprecate the inflicting of all punishment upon any if you can indeed prove that by the Principles of their Religion they are obliged to inflict the like punishment on others As for our Principles we protest unto you they are very innocent in this point Laws indeed have oft been made in Catholick Countries very severe against those that the Church calls Hereticks But they are none of the Churches laws they were not enacted by Ecclesiasticks but by Civil Governours only You know that by the Canons of the Church ever in force the Clergy under penalty of Irregularity are forbidden to have any hand either by Counsel or otherwise in blood And whatsoever Laws have been or shall be made by Catholick Civil Governours especially such as reach to blood if the Motive of them hath been pure Opinions of the Understanding not prejudicial to Government or any thing except a prudent mean to prevent Sedition or Rebellions justly apprehended we assure you they are not made by the Principles of Catholick Religion but against them 3. You will object the Spanish Inquisition But withall be pleased to consider that almost all the Catholick Kingdoms in Europe besides do abhorr the cruelty of that Inquisition and have often declared they will suffer the utmost extremities rather than admit it 4. This Charity of yours therefore was too excessive to be long-liv'd or deserving to be esteem'd sincere for you presently repent and revoke it whilst immediatly after you add I must confess there are two things which do much difference the case of the Papists from that of any other Religious Sect Preface this day in the World and which renders the Toleration of them very unsafe if not unwarrantable 5. How was it possible for one that wrote this cruel passage not presently to blot out what with the same ink he had written immediatly before The King and State are little beholding to you when you wish that may be done which is both very unsafe and unwarrantable and besides that may be done for Roman Catholicks which you say are the only Religous Sect in the World which it is both very unsafe and unwarrantable to tolerate you except not even the Fifth-Monarchists whose Religion forbids subjection to all Civil Governours whatsoever and commands by Fire and Sword to erect their new spiritual Kingdom of Christ which is to last a thousand years Let but Papists be excluded and all the monsters of Egypt are welcom to Mr. Bagshaw Yet he must know that if there had been no Papists in the World no other Sect among us had ever heard of Christ Behold the mercies of a Presbyterian or Independent I know not whether how cruel they are 6. And all this he writes to prevent the benignity of Protestants which he suspects may in some measure be extended as well to Roman Catholicks that suffered with them as to his own party that still grieve they had not swallowed up both He forgets what a converted criminal as if it were some honest Anabaptist or Quaker one that had been but now is no longer a murderer and seditious person said to his obdurat companion Dost thou not fear God since thou art in the same condemnation And we indeed justly But these Men what have they done But we should not much apprehend that his perswasion should prevail with persons that sure should now know us both were it not that
as for treason against any English subject meerly for having a scruple in an Oath to bring forth the word Heretical he being at the same time ready to acknowledge as due to the King all the authority and right that the Judge himself does when he condemns him for a traytour 16. Therefore Mr. Bagshaw if You would perswade the State that it cannot confide in Catholicks You must study some other motives For we heartily renounce the acknowledgment of any power that can dispence with us or release us of our Engagements to his Majesty They are none of our teachers that hold such opinions And what Bellarmine saies That the sole cause why the Primitive Christians were content to suffer without resistance was their want of power we abhor as a speech blasphemous to the Holy Martyrs and scandalous to the Church Yet let me tell You this was a Doctrine that Bellarmine might have learnt from Your Fore-fathers the antient Puritans for out of them it is that Archbishop Bancroft quotes such unchristian sayings and words as this for one Paul commanding us to be subject and obedient to Bancroft in Dangerous Positions p. 17 Princes did write this in the infancie of the Church there were but few Christians then and not many of them rich or of ability so as they were not for such a purpose As if a man should write to such Christians as are under the Turk in substance poor in courage feeble in strength unarm'd in number few and generally subject to all kind of injuries would he not write as Paul did So as the Apostle did respect the men he wrote unto and his words are not to be extended to the body or people of a Common wealth or whole City For imagine that Paul were now alive c. and that there were such Kings as would have their becks stand for Laws as cared neither for God nor man c. what would he write of such to the Church Surely except he would dessent from himself he would say that he accounteth not such for Magistrates c he would leave them to their subjects to be punished c. 17. What think You of this Mr. Bagshaw Yet I will not accuse You of holding the same Nay more though I can demonstrate tuat there 's not a Country or City in Christendom into which Your Sect or Religion ever entred by any other waies but sedition and Rebellion witness France Geneva Holland several States in Germany Switzerland Scotland and for almost twenty Years space England yet if You would renounce that abominable principle That it is lawful to defend Religion by arms against a lawful Prince I should have a scruple to say that a State cannot safely or warrantably confide in you as You have most unjustly said against Roman Catholicks taking advantage from one or two Writers generally disallowed by us though You can not name any one City or Country in Christendom into which Catholick Religion ever entred but by suffering 18. Do not therefore endeavour to make all Catholicks answerable for the wicked assertions of a few Authors when you know they have been condemned by whole Kingdoms You have eyes sharp enough to spy even in the Catholick Church our sort of Presbyterians and Independents Yea even Quakers too If any such be in England the State may easily convert them However God be thanked their teachings are out of fashion and I would to God they displeased You as much as they do us You know we can lay to your charge ten seditious Authours for one and which is mainly indeed only considerable You are not able to produce one of your party that has condemned their horribly Rebellious principles And as to the point of defending Religion by Arms if by a Reply You will summon me to produce the particular passages I will at large informe You that during the reign of the last King of France there was by his order proposed to an Assembly of Catholick Bishops this Question or problem If it were supposed that the King of France became Mahumetan and by his power endeavoured to force his subjects to that infidelity Whether they might lawfully according to the principles of Christianity by arms against their Soveraign resist such an attempt of his To which Question the unanimous answer of the Bishops was That such a resistance would be unlawful since Christian Religion allowed no other way of maintaining the faith against lawful Soveraigns but prayers tears and suffering When will England be so happy as to see such a resolution to proceed from a Synod of Presbyterians c. It would be some comfort to see but one Mr. Bagshaw publish a little book to that purpose Never certainly was there a more seasonable time then now That would be a powerful expedient to imprint the Act of Oblivion in the very hearts of all English subjects And till some such thing be done Quis Caelum terris non misceat to read from such an one as Mr. Bagshaw's pen a Lecture of Fidelity to the King and a warning given to the State who the only persons are not fit to be confided in 19. You add Mr. Bagshaw But could our Papists in England give sufficient evidence of their hearty disowning such an irreligious Tenet yet there is another thing Preface c. What say You Sir Could the Papists Why have they not Is their an ear in England that can perceive sence and has not heard what a profession was made by the Catholick Lords in the House of Peers Is there an eye that can read and has not seen their printed Declarations in which that irreligious Tenet was confidently clearly and heartily Disavowed They have do and will protest that if they be not ready to give all possible security of disavowing that and all other Principles prejudicial to Authority Justice and Peace it would neither be prudence in his Majesty nor a just care of his Kingdomes welfare to tolerate them among his Subjects What would you require more 20. If You think or however if You be resolved to say though You do not think so that we lye when we both make such protestations and withall offer to confirme them by Oathes You will put us into some puzzle how to give You satisfaction Yet in order thereto even to You that perhaps are unwilling to be satisfied we tell You this You cannot but know that Catholick Religion utterly forbids all lying and above all Perjury If therefore You will judge that neither the Protestations nor Oaths of Catholicks are to be credited you will condemn the State of want of prudence in contriving Oathes for tryals of their Fidelity and moreover you must needs esteem us the most impertident Lyars in the World that is such as only lye when it is for our disadvantage If we durst lye we would much rather chuse to lye by taking the Oathes in the formes as they are expressed then make voluntary false protestations of the same
a popular stile far from that studied exactness of Lawes and Sciences are most proper to have their sence agreed in This must be your task and to make it good it will be expected that You should do one miracle more which is to produce but one Example during sixteen hundred years and upwards taking in the Apostles times if You please to shew that differences in Religion have been prevented or composed and separations of divided Churches re-united by disputing out of Scriptures alone without submission to a common Tribunal On the contrary side we Catholicks will be obliged to shew you that all Heresies hitherto appearing have been so far destroyed by General Councils that the Church has been preserved in Unity and we are confident will be so for ever notwithstanding even so formidable an Adversaries opposition as you are 14. In the fifth place This great Tribunal of a General Council is of an Authority so authentick that no Appeal from it must be admitted Yea moreover it has influence not on the outward actions or professions only but even the judgments and hearts of all particular Catholick persons and Churches This appears not only by the universal agreement of all Fathers and Ecclesiastical Writers past and present but by the solemn stile of the Decrees made by all such Councils in which Anathema's have been denounced against all Hereticks and Schismaticks and they separated from the Mystical Body of Christ to which alone Salvation is promised 15. In the last place therefore the Church being one and to keep it so Authority having been communicated to it by our Lord which Authority for that purpose must needs under penalty of an Eternal separation from Christ oblige all Christians to submit even their minds to it it seems to us that it followes necessarily and inevitably that the Church is infallible Unless we would say that our Lord has commanded us to hear such a Church and Guide as might lead us to Hell To prevent all suspicion of which he has expresly promised to lead not the Apostles only as you fancy but his Church into all Truth with whom he said he would be present to the end of the world thousands of years after the Apostles were dead 16. These you may suppose Mr. Bag. to be the true grounds of the Churches Infallibility It is Infallible because it is One but it is such an One from which as Separation is damnable So that if you a Presbyterian or Independent c. have a minde to assault these grounds then 1. You must first destroy that Article of our Creed I believe one Catholick Church 2. Next you must prove out of express Scripture not only that Scripture is our only Rule but that we have no other Guide to find out the sence of it but only our private reason or spirit and what these joyn'd together conclude upon will infallibly serve our turn whether it be true or false 3. That all the Antient Church and all Protestants too are mistaken when they say that Schism to you the most innocent thing in the World is a Sin a great exterminating sin for which there cannot possibly be a just cause or sufficient excuse 4. Lastly you must have the confidence befitting a Presbyterian to say that all Christians before you have been poor spirited sheepish deceived people that knew not what the Liberty of a Subject was and that all General Councils that presumed to denounce Anathema's against the private spirit or enlightned reason have been most abhorred conspiracies of Tyrants over Mens souls 17. Whereas if you were an English Protestant truly so called but the very supposition is unsufferable and therefore must be changed therefore I say whereas a true English Protestant would protest his readiness to submit both his tongue and soul to a lawful General Council and consequently would have no quarrel against the Infallibility of the Universal Church He would admit Tradition to be the best Interpreter of Scripture Only his Controversiehumour would spend it self against the Roman Churches pretention to the Title of Catholick and would maintain that the English State and Clergy had authority enough to reform themselves without consulting the Roman or any other Churches Indeed if the Eastern Church had still been in Union with the Roman the case then would be altered The English Church on such a supposition would have had a scruple to oppose both 18. Therefore since it is not in our power to oblige the Turk to permit the Eastern Bishops to meet in a General Council with the West for English Protestants sake not yours good Mr. Bagshaw I will take upon me a little more then your Book can require from me and that is to propose in the mean time a convenient mean and expedient towards the removing this scruple and that is as followeth 19. Since we cannot have speaking Judges that will please them they may I suppose do well to help themselves with Books and for that purpose pitch upon some well known time in which the Eastern and Western Churches were united and out of the Books and Monuments of that Age impartially collect the Doctrines then taught and the Church-government then in use through the whole Church For thereby it will evidently appear whether of the Churches Eastern or Western that now differ in both have deserted that which was anciently in both 20. Now I conceive a more proper time for this purpose cannot be imagined then the Age of the Church in St. Gregory the great 's time when England was converted from Paganisme by St. Augustin the Monk sent by him For it is evident that the whole Church was then in perfect Union the same Doctrines were taught and the same Government and Common laws in use all the Christian World over Besides there are extant more better and clearer Monuments both of the Doctrines and Discipline of that Age then in any other and especially in St. Gregories Epistles sent into all quarters of the World and in other of his works translated into the Greek tongue and freely embraced yea admired by the Greek Church we may find what Authority so learned and Holy a Pope exercised over other Churches according to the then received Ecclesiastical Canons Moreover besides S. Gregories Works our own Country both by wtitings of learned men Councils of Bishops and visible Marks in the foundation of Churches and Monasteries will most abundantly furnish us 21. Now when we have found what in that age was the Belief and practise of the whole Church uniformly Then we are to confront thereto the Doctrines and Discipline of the present Eastern and Western Churches Being assured that both of them have not deserted the Antient Belief and practise because if it were so there would not now be extant any Orthodox Church at all and consequently our Saviours promise of leading his Church into all Truth would have failed 21. Now when it shall appear unto us whether of these two great Churches hath
and I much fear You will never have the honesty to imitate them 3. Observe one thing I pray You in such Protestations and writings of Roman Catholicks They do not deprecate any former faults committed because they are guiltie of none they protest their clearness from those crimes of a few desperate unhappy monsters and writings of their traiterous Masters that occasioned the severity of Laws against all They do not mention their universal fidelitie to the King these last twentie Years as an obligation or merit for which they expect reward from men but as a necessary duty to which their Religion bound them and which if they had not performed they should have incurred a curse from God Yet all this perhaps will not satisfie You. But see our different Complexion for my part though there were not one of Your supposed Religion but were deeply ingaged in infidelity to the King yet if You would only acknowledg that a fault was committed is repented of and a promise made of Loyalty for the future I should hope well and wish You might be believed and confided in for the future 4. Next as to the Clergy Your accusation Preface is most heavy and punctual when You say I need not plead for the not persecuting of Poperie c. when some that yet professe themselves to be of our Church and those of good note too are not afraid to plead for somthing more then its Toleration Since by telling us in print that the Pope is not Master Thorndike in Weights and Measures Antichrist That Papists are not Idolaters nay by affirming That all are schismaticks who upon that score do refuse communion with them they not only blemish the vertue and piety of our first Reformers who all built upon that foundation but likewise shew how willing they are upon any termes how wretched and unworthie soever to returne into Egypt and bring us to our Brick and bondage again If this be not the interest of some I cannot imagine what means the crying up of that Great Diana of the Papists the Churches Authority and making that the sole Interpreter of Scripture The Dr. Gunning upon Math. 9. preaching up of Lent and other political Fish daies as Religious Fasts and of Apostolical Institution quite contrary M. Thorndike ut suprà both to express scripture and an Act of Parliament The insinuating that we may lawfully pray for the dead and likewise expect some benefit by their prayers which in time may easily be improved to our praying unto them These with some other opinions of the like nature so far degenerating from our primitive protestancy do shew that if the Age is willing to be deceived there are not wanting learned men who are willing enough to deceive them 5. This authority that You Mr. Bagshaw take upon You to proscribe all protestants that dare not profess such a detestation of Catholick Vnity as Your party does is alone sufficient to demonstrate how much the English Clergy does neglect their own preservation whilst they permit such as You to call your selves protestants and members of their Church your waies and interests being so directry opposed to theirs 6. All England almost has lately heard Archbishop of Canterbury laid to the charge of the late most unjustly murdered Archbishop of Canterbury as the most heavy point of his accusation that he had a desire of restoring England to Catholick unity Yet there was not produced any proof at all that for that end he deserted any necessarie and essential Doctrines of his own Church the mere desire of unity was his crime A crime that he willingly acknowledged and as he had reason joyfullie boasted of And certainly that Christian must needs be full of a Spirit not from heaven that hates unitie quatenus ipsam Now what my Lord Archbishop desired and died for I am perswaded there is scarce any true genuine English protestant but does commend in him and would not refuse occasion being given to imitate him in 7. If you read Bishop Andrews his works both English and Latine You Bishop Andrews will even in his Controversies against Catholicks find a wonderful caution not to aggravate or multiply differences great care to prevent misintelligence and an exactness in stating disputed points with a most studied impartiality very oft with condescendence Nay even in his sermons before the Court in which his heart only spoke as as an Embassadour for God what pangs may one perceive in his soul when he speaks upon this subject and reflects on the aversion that some who like You call themselves protestants have from Catholick peace and Unitie Hearken to this one passage in his first Sermon on Pentecost Who shall make us of one accord High shall his reward be in heaven and happy his remembrance on earth that shall be the means to restore this accord to the Church that once we may keep a true and perfect Pentecost like this here Erant omnes unanimiter It was a restoring of unity that he so much thirsted after which word shewes that he had a respect to the Catholick Church from which only a separation was made 8. And Doctour Steward likewise a person as replenished with learning prudence Doctour Steward and vertue as any of his time he so longed after this unitie that in his last Will he gave order it should be the argument of the Inscription on his Tombe And no doubt there is but such an Inscription would make it lighter that is render his future condition better 9. These wothy persons were indeed English protestants like those You now arraign They knew the true composition of their own Chuch A Church though I must needs say not firmly built yet however erected by advice of persons in Authority persons of honour and judgment not as Geneva Holland and Cromwels Independent Church by a rebellious Army of Tradesmen They knew that at the first framing of the English Church a way was not so wholly given to passion but that when certain interests of a few great persons were complied with and several too justly complained of Gravamina from the Roman Court remedied there might be a possibility of closing again with that Church which they then only so far deserted They knew there was never any intention so to forsake the Roman Church as if it were a Babel or seat of Antichrist but ever acknowledged it a true Church though not so well Reformed On the contrarie they knew and their successors do still to your hearts torment acknowledg that all the Ordination and spiritual Jurisdiction of the English Church is derived from the Roman which therefore must be a true Church if theirs be any 10. Upon such grounds as these no question my Lord Archbishop of Canterbury not only desired as all honest well minded Protestants do but also hoped that if by his authority and skill he could reduce the English church to that primitive State before your