Selected quad for the lemma: doctrine_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
doctrine_n	church_n	know_v	tradition_n	2,871	5	9.3405	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A68554	A brief censure vppon two bookes written in answere to M. Edmonde Campions offer of disputation; Briefe censure uppon two bookes written in answere to M. Edmonde Campions offer of disputation.	Parsons, Robert, 1546-1610.	1581 (1581)	STC 19393; ESTC S106078	31,137	90

in ep 1. ad cor Isodorus Li. diu offic cap. 18. Damascenus Li. de ortho fid cap. 14. with others Nether importeth it anie thinge though the woorde facere dothe not signifie to consecrate of his owne nature for the facte of Christe going before draweth it to that signification as if a man should singe and afterwarde say to the standers by Hoc facite Doe the same héere facere should signifie to singe though not of his owne nature 12. You reporte the Iesuites to say Traditions are of equal authority with the woorde of God we must beleue thē though they be manifestlye against the Scripture Cens. fol. 230. You drawe towards an end M. Chark therfore you wil make a soūd lie for a parting blow You haue here added of your owne We must beleue them thoughe they be manifestlye against the Scripture The Iesuites say no such woord but they affirme the former parte of your wordes although not soe generally confusedly as you report For they say not that all traditions are of equal authoritye with the woord of God but only such as are certaynlye descended from Christ his Apostles and were deliuered by thē to be obserued as parte of the woorde of God For there are two kinds of traditions or doctrines receaued onlye by woord of mouthe the one called Ecclesiastical because they were begone and left vs only by the Church and thes ar of no greater authoritie then the writinges and other decrées of the Churche are The other are called Apostolicall or deuine left vnto vs by Christ the Apostles and thes are of no lesse authority then if they had ben writen by thē or then are the other things which they wrot For if a maister should leaue vnto his seruantes one thing in writing and an other thing by woord of mouthe they are of equal authoritie as all men wil graūt Thes traditions therfor if they be certainly knowen to come frō Christ his Apostles the Iesuites say they are of equal authority with y e written word not al traditiōs as you malitiously reporte And now that Christ his Apostles left vnto the Church diuers doctrines by word of mouth only not writen it is proued by inuincible argumētes as by the testimonies of the Councels Fathers stories of the Primatiue church by many places of scripture as namly by that S. Paule saithe to the Thessalonians Brethern stande fast and hould the traditions which you haue lerned ether by word of mouth or by our epistle Also it is proued by doctrines which we haue and hould the Church hath so done frō the beginning which doctrines notwithstanding are not writen but receaued by worde of mouth from Christ and the Apostles as baptisme of infantes celebration of the sondaye the nomber of the bookes of Scripture the fast of lent and the like wherof I haue geuen more examples before in your fourth reporte Now this being soe how vainly doe you bring in M. Charke against this the sayng of Christ touching the superstitious scribes and Pharases In vaine doe they worshipe me teaching doctrines that are but the traditions of men In your owne conscience I aske you is this anything pertaining to our purpose or contrarie to the Catholiques doctrine which I haue set doūe if it be not why doe you soe shamlesly deceaue the people with such impertinēt stuffe But this is your onlye refuge and herein lyethe the whole mayntenance of your cause to reporte vs still amisse and to refute vs with that whiche nothing pertayneth to the matter As in this place whiche you haue héere brought in let the reader marke how manye differences there be betwixt it and our purpose First Christ in this place reprehendeth the teaching of doctrins that are but of men and we talke of doctrines deliuered vs by Christ and his Apostles Secondly Christe reprehendeth not al obseruation of traditiōs of men but the noughtie obseruation of them by estéeming them more then the worde of God and by breaking the worde of God for the obseruinge of them which we also doe condemne Thirdlye those traditions of the Pharases which Christ reprehendeth were certayne idle and foolishe external ceremonies as the washing of cuppes and the lyke and dyuers of them were directe contrarye to the worde of God as certaine corrupt expositiōs of the law as Christ noteth there And these were of thrée kindes The one left by Rabbi Akiuam the other by Rabbi Iuda the thyrde by the sonnes of Asomoneus which interpretations all were called Deuteroseis that is secondarye expositions after Moyses of which peruerse expositions came al their errours of the Talmud But now what is this to the holye Traditions of Christ and his Apostles or of the Primatiue Church 13. Lastly you report the Iesuites to say We must worshippe the image of Christ with lyke honour that we doe the holy bookes of the Ghospel fol. 66. Agaynst which you bring in S. Paul askinge What agreemente is there betweene the temple of God and Idoles I answere much more agréement then there is betwéene the matter we talke of and this place of S. Paule For he talketh of drawinge the yoke with infidels and our question is whether the worshippe done to the image of Christ and to the Byble be al one or no But you by callinge the image of our Sauiour an Idole shew your selfe impious and you are accursed for it by the seuēth general Councel And by putting such great difference betwéene the worship of Christes Image and his books of the Ghospel you proue your vnderstanding to be very litle For if you graunt any kinde of worshippe to the one how can you deny the same to the other séeinge that both are creatures and as the Image was made by the Karuer so the letter of the Byble by the Printer and the hononr done to the one and the other is not to them selues but onely to God whose Image and word they are But if you denye al kinde of honour to them both in that they are creatures for we assigne no diuyne honour vnto them Thē first your place of S. Paul of difference is nothing to the purpose Secondlye what wil you saye to the worshipppe done vnto the Arke vnto the Cherubins vnto the serpent of brasse Why doth Dauid say Doe you adore the stoole of his feete Why are we commaunded to bowe our knée at the sounde of the name of Iesus which is but a creature representing Christ to the eare as his image doth to the eye S. Austen geueth this reason for it Because the honour done to these thinges doth redounde vnto him who is signified by them But you are so wilful M. Chark as you wil not vnderstād y e difference betwéene an image and an idole nor betwéene the honours done vnto a creature and to the creator but malitiously you wil stil confound the same in our names

whether we wil or noe and that only to blind the poore people withal and to maintayne matter of rayling agaynst your mother the Catholique Church God forgeue you for it And thus M. Charke I haue answered bréefely your slaunderous false reportes of the Iesuites doctrine Now let modest men iudge what cause you had to breake into those vnséemelye words sayinge These and many other blasphemies do the Iesuites maintayne There is not a spider nor a spiders web in anye corner of the Popes breste but these doctors wil hould it no lesse holy thē that which commeth out of Christs brest But doe not euen the Papists that know these thinges easely see how thes Iesuites in these doctrines bewraye the spirit of Antichrist What néedeth all this M. Charke If a lying spirit be the spirite of Antichrist then he is bewrayed ether in them or in you If an ignorant rayling spirite be it we can geue a good gesse where he dwelleth Surely me thinke your zeale ouerran your wit in this place as it did also not longe agone when you hauinge the bewe of a Masse booke and finding the blessed virgin named Mother of God in the same you cryed out Blasphemye vntil your felow blushinge at your ignorance brought you in minde of the antiquitie of that name You are too ouergréedie of our discredit and it hurteth your owne cause You séeme to haue made a compacte betwéene you euerye man to lye his parte and so by force to ouerbeare vs. You haue plaied yours and M. Hanmer followeth pretilie after you whoe is not ashamed toauouch without citing the place that S. Thomas of Aquyne holdethe The wearinge of Frauncis and Dominickes cowle to haue power to remoue sinne as wel as the Sacrament of Baptisme Which is as true as that which you affirme to wit That Cardinal Poole blushed at dyuers enormities in Popery And That the Catholickes in England at this daye doe confesse Images Pardones Prayinge to Sayntes and Seruice in the Latine tong to be wicked things All which is as true as your newes from Rome caused amongst you to be printed of late with your ordinarie approbatiō of Seene and allowed Wherin for the defacinge of that citye you shew the heauie hand of God towards it in signes and tokens the 23. 24. and 25. dayes of Ianuarie last past 1580 at what time you report 2. sonnes and 3. rainbows to haue appeared with most terrible earthquakes wherewith fell doune the gate of S. Peters killinge 14. persons besids 8. soldiers Also two stéeples of S. Peters Church crushing the Church and killing 38. preistes besides Quiristers and other people Also the Churches of the Franciscans of S. Iames of S. Bartholomew of our Lady the whole Abbaie of Marie Magdalene the braue artillerie house of Rome with a hospital wherein were 150. persons besides other infinite buildinges which the reuenew of a Kingedome wil not repayre and al this as you interpret in token of Gods wrath towardes the Pope Of which no one sillable being true as many both here and in England can testifie your resolutiō appeareth which you haue made to auouch any thing be it neuer so false so blush at nothing be it neuer so shamful and to inuente what so euer maye séeme for the purpose to entertayne or de lude the simple people Towching the Man Concerning the man whom you answere To let passe all your euill speach towardes him as pardonable in you which knowe litle ciuilitie you séeme to deale otherwise verye hardlye with him for what so euer he sayeth or doeth you wil haue it to be taken in euil parte If he speake humblye he dissembleth If he yéelde commendation he flattereth If he she we confidence in his cause he vaunteth If he offer trial he meanethe not performance If he proteste his meaninge he must not be credited If he desire audience he must not be admitted Finally what so euer he can imagine to vtter for iustifiinge of him selfe or his cause it must auayle nothinge William Charke will haue him condemned for vnlearned proude wicked and trayterous to the state and he makethe this generall conclusion That no man can teache or maintayne the Catholicke fayth in England but he must be thereby an enimie to God and a traytor to the state The firste parte whereof touchinge God I let passe as an ordinarie reproche of his vncleane mouth whereby he condemneth al the noble Princes of Englande and other our vertuous auncestors from the first conuersion of that land vnto our age But towchinge the second parte of his conclusion concerninge the state I must say a worde or two Doe you hould M. Charke that noe man in Englande can be of an other religion then yours but that of necessitie he must also be a traytor This is hote doctrine Héere agayne your zeale ouerrunneth your wit or rather your malice ouerlashethe all reason Must euerye man be an enymie to the state which lykethe not that religion whiche is fauoured bye the State what saye you to the Apostles whiche were of an other religion then the states Princes wher they came and they taught maintayned and furthered their owne religion within the same states and will you for this fact of theirs condemne them of treason against the said states of teaching rebellion against those Princes If you dare affirme it their owne woordes shall reproue you which declare vnto vs how they notwithstanding their contrarie religion taught all dutiful obedience in temporal matters towardes those Princes being but infidels and otherwise wicked men the which notwithstandinge the Apostels did commaund al Christians to obey in conscience as substitutes of God and soe they did as appeareth by their Apologies written in defence of their innocencie in these poyntes at such times as they were charged with the contrarie as we are now I might make the like demaunde of Athanasius Hillarius Eusebius versellensis and others which ceased not to mayntaine teach and defend their religion in the hottest persecution of the Arians and yet were noe traytours to the states which fauoured the contrarie religion Morouer in Quéene Maryes time wil you saye that al For his martirs were traytours to the state or that all of your opinion in these and other countries where the states fauour not your religion are traytours and rebels nether maketh it anye thing to the purpose for you to saye that our religion is false and yours true for the question is generall whether euerye man of a contrary relygion must nedes be an enemie to the state which you affirme and we deny Nether is that argument to be respected wherwith some of your chéefe prelates vse to presse Catholikes some times saying that they in Quene Maryes time wished al euil to the Prince and estate and therfore we must nedes doe the same now This argument I saye houldeth not for that there is difference of spirites in men