first being a number of visible converts choose Paul and other planters of the Churches for their Pastors whereas they preached to them for their conversion as no pastors at all before that choosing but as gifted men for that hath not the least shadow of truth in the word so also they did first heare the Gospel as Disciples and visible Professors before they could be baptized or received to the other seale as is evident by the Eunuches professed reading and asking the meaning of that which he read Isai. 53. Act. 8. 29 30 31. and his professed seeking to be baptized and the Iaylors professed hearing and asking what he should do to be saved Aâ—â— 16. 30 31 32. and by the hearing and pofessing of all his house before they were baptized and the Corinthians hearing and believing Act. 18. 8. And Lydia and her houses hearing Act. 16 14 15. and the Gentiles reverent professed hearing the word Act. 10. 33 44 45 46. and the three thousand Act. 52. hearing and saying which was a fair visible profession men and brethren what shall we do before any of them were baptized Act. 2. v. 37 41 42 43. which proveth that both active preaching of the Gospel and a professed receiving thereof go before men be inchurched And yet if these may be to wit hearing and professed receiving here is an essentiall mark by which persons before they receive the seals are made members visible and disciples and societies visible and Churches essentially differenced 1. From all the false Churches visible on earth who have not the sound of the word preached and professedly heard and visibly received and 2. from all civil societies 3. from all Pagan and Heathen societies on earth Ergo they were a distinct Christian society differenced essentially and if they should all dye before they had been baptized or had received the seals they had been true visible Church-members and if killed for the truth they had dyed visible professing Martyrs and the called Church of Christ. 3. The visible Church is a thing whose being is in succession and dayly growing and is a society dayly more stated as it were in a Church-way according as the active calling on the Lords part and his peoples yielding thereunto in a dayly profession go on as Isai 65. 2. the Lord all the day long calleth and to speak so inchurcheth dayly people by the preached word Math. 23. 37. How often would I have gathered you Jer. 7. 25. he sendeth his Prophets early in the morning and late at night to call Hence if that which is the essentiall mark of the Church visible to wit the preaching of the Gospel be the onely instrument and the draw-net of pulling out and calling of men into fellowship with Christ by the word preached And if the seal do onely confirm converts as discipline keepeth the visible kingdome clean from visible scandals then are these who professedly in that society partake and receive that essentiall mark and yield externally thereunto members of the visible Church and a society made up of such a true visible Church though they receive not yet all the ordinances and are as the outer court which is a part of the temple But the active calling of God by the preached word and the peoples professed yielding thereunto and their ordinary professed hearing is such a mark both by the word of God and all our Protestant Divines Calvin Beza Bâ—l. P. Martyr Bucanus Tilenus Piscator Musculus Gualter Iunius Pareus Zanchius Professors of Leideu Willet Iewel Reynald Trelcatius Sadeel Polanus c. Fathers Councels old and late and our brethren cannot build their new Churches but by loosing the foundation-stones layed by these worthy builders and the Scripture maketh feeding of the flockes setting up the sheepheards tents Cant. 1. 7 8. Ier. 3. 15. Feeding of the flock and the feed flock Act. 20. 28. 1 Pet. 6. 1. The golden candlestick in the preached word and these in the house to whom it giveth light the onely mark of a true visible Church so is it prophecyed it shall be under the new Testament Isai. 2. 3. Many people and nations shall go and say Come and let us go up to the mountain of the Lords house how shall the visible mountain be known and he will teach us his wayes and we will walk in his pathes for out of Sion the visible Church shall go forth the Law and the word of the Lord from Ierusalem so Isai. 62. 6. The visible city is known I have set watchmen upon thy walls O Ierusalem which shall never hold their peace but preach and pray day nor night Psal. 147. 19. He sheweth his word unto Iacob his statutes and his judgements to Israel And that proveth them to be a Church differenced from other societies v. 20. He hath not dealt so with any nation I grant statutes and judgements include seals sacrifices as all the priviledges Rom. 6. 4 5. to whom pertained the adoption and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law Yet by the word soundly preached is faith begotten Rom. 10. 14 15 And the flock fed and the disciples made Matthew 28. 19 20 It is taught that sacraments do but confirm faith now a Ministeriall begetting of children is to speak so more essentiall to the visible Church then to confirm them 2. that doctrine is not to be holden which teacheth us no way of certain knowing by faith what is the true visible Church to which we may adjoyne our selves and what not but teacheth us a conjecturall way onely of finding the true visible Church as Socinians and Arminians who tell us the notes of the true Church are not necessary to be known 2. There is no certain way of knowing the true visible Church now our way that maketh the profession of the sound doctrine of the Gospel a note of the true Church holdeth out a way of knowing by certainty by faith which is the true Church as we know which is the true doctrine But Sociniant say two or three fundamentals are all and they give us a Church so wide as taketh in all Churches Papists Socinians Libertines c. and Anabaptists and those that are for toleration of all religions yea and for all errors not fundamentals since they know not well what be fundamentals what not shall give but conjectures for the knowledge of the sound Church And M H. referres all to the judgement of charity which is a meere doubting uncertain way of finding the true Church As to the argument if preaching of the word were a true mark of the Church then were excommunicate persons members of the Church for they heare the word I answer 1. such as are excommunicate for apostacy from the truth 2. such as are stricken with the great excommunication Anothema Maranatha 1 Cor. 16. 22. are not to be ordinary hearers of the word and so the argument holdeth not of them for they are simply rotten members
But for such as are excommunicated because of some particular scandal as incest or a particular heresie and yet professe the truth as to all other points they are members cut off and yet not cut off in so far as they retain a profession yea and to the knowledge of the Church are visible converts though in one particular scandal they lye without and give not such evidences of repentance as the Church can pardon them as may be proven from the 2 Cor. 2. 6 7 8 9. they are ordinary hearers of the word as such as must be reclaimed by the preached word as sick children under the medicinall cure of excommunication and the preached word that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord 1 Cor. 5. but they are not ordinary hearers as visible professors nor are they members complete of the Church in the inner court admitted to the seals 2. 2 Thâ—ss 3. 14 15. They are cut off members yet not counted as enemies but to be admonishâ—d as brethâ—en Ergo though they be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as heathens and Publicans Matth. 18. Yet are they not simply to be counted Pagans nor occasionall hearers as Pagans but brethren and though Mr. Robinson and some say the place 2 Thess. 3. is not meant of excommunicated persons beside that it is against the text against the current of sound interpreters yet it proveth our point that even such as walk disorderly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 verse 11. and obey not the doctrine of the Gospel and with whom we should not keep company v. 14. and so ought to be excommunicate by M. Hookers doctrine yet remain brethren and are to be counted so by members of the Church and are to heare the word of admonition and so are visible professors and so not utterly cast out of the visible Church and M. H doth no more refute our Protestants then the Scripture who calleth such as are fed and the hearers of the Lords testimonies the Israel of God and the sheep of his pasture his flock inheritance his vineyard his garath of red vine his spouse and what is this but the Church visible Psal. 147. 19 20. Hosh. 8 11. What because the excommunicated who thus hear ordinarily are not members of the Church because they are not whole intire members it is no more consequently spoken then if he would say a wounded souldier because he is wounded and under cure is not a member of the army and sworn to the colours because he cannot march and fight as other souldiers M. H. c. 2. part 1. pag. 18. 19. and pag. 33. 34. Suppose a minister should preach many yeares to a company of Infidells in one place and a Lecturer to many people of diverse congregations in the same auditory shall it follow that Iâ—fidels are members of the visible Church and that these make a visible Church though there be here setled preaching yet it is not an essentiall and differencing property of the visible Church but a commune adjunct or separable accident as the sensitive faculty is not a proper mark of a man though it be in man for so might one and the same man be a member of four such visible Churches if they meet ordinarly at several houres to their severall lectures Answ. We mean by settled preaching preaching as opposed to transient and occasionall preaching as when Paul in passing on a journey preacheth to mocking Athenians we grant that will not conclude that the scâ—… who occasionally so heare are members of the visible Church not think our divines preaching so to be an essentiall mark of the visible Church but by settled preaching which we make such a mark we mean 1. the active calling of God by Gods warrant and command to preach to such for Ministers may not at randome set up a light among Infidels upon their own private choice and spirit but if God so dispose that they have a faculty of speaking in their own tongue to Pagans 2. if providence open a door for a call that there be any passive call or accepting of him for these diverse yeares upon the part of these Infidels and 3. if the Lord gift the man and stir up his spirit to preach diverse yeares to these Infidels in one place I shall say there the Lord hath said to that man go and bid these Infidels and fooles come to the wedding as Mat. 12. 9. and come to wisdomes table as Prov. 9. 4. and there is a visible Church there if these heathen heare and mock and lyinglâ—…are and still professe and practise the worshipping of their dumb Idols we shall say preachers have no warrant one year let alone many years so to preach and the man preacheth to them without warrant from God and where there is no professed yielding in some measure the supposition is without the state of our question 2. the contret of a lecturer that preacheth the word to diverse professors from sundry Churches if 1. he have no warrant to administer the seals or to exercise discipline over them he seemeth to me some Catholick Doctor I read not of in scripture not unlike the Popish and Prelaticall Deacon who may preach and baptize as a midwife to them in case of necessity may baptize but not to administer the other seal 2. if he be a lawfully called Pastor I shall say the meeting is a true visible Church of visible members met from sundry Churches and is not a fixed but a transient Church and it is no more absurâ—d to say these are members of four visible Churches to wit transient members then to say they are members of the whole Catholick visible Church and baptized Whether Iewes or Gentiles all by one spirit unto one body 1 Cor. 12. 13. being all one body having one spirit one faith one Lord one baptisme Ephes. 4. 4 5. though they belong to diverse particular Churches and this argument beggeth what is in question that all sound professors are not members of the Catholick visible Church 3 This way settled preaching is no commune adjunct or separable accident of a visible Church but an essentiall note thereof CHAP. VI. M. Hookers 2. Argument to prove that preaching of the sound Doctrine of the Gospel is no mark of the visible Church MAster Hooker addeth par 1. chap. 2. pag. 34. If you say that settled preaching as established and remaining in the Church is a mark of the Church so you make the Church a mark of it self this plea is too narrow Answ. It is not narrow nor a plea either to say that seeing eyes as fixed in a living creature we call animal and hearing ears c. are an essentiall note of a living creature whereas the eyes and ears not fixed in a living creature but separated from it should be a narrow plea indeed to be called the essentiall mark of a living creature and yet none can say that a living creature is made a mark of it self
scandal ver 6. 3. As those who were to keep the feast Christ being sacrificed for them With sincerity ver 8. 4. As those who should not familiarly converse with scandalous fornicators ver 11. but all of them were to judge and put away the wicked person from among them ver 13. in a way suitable to their place that is the officers with Pauls Spirit or a pastoral authority like unto it the brethren women children of age and servants professing the faith in their way by consenting and by the judgement of discretion so far as belonged to their practise in withdrawing from the delinquent 2. Not did I deny that the Church of Corinth should have excommunicated the man before Paul wrote to them but that they should have done it without Pauls knowledge is onely said not proved and that any save officers and such as were indued with such a pastoral spirit as was in Paul could have done it is onely asserted by Mr. H. his sole word and this answer insinuates that the onely male-Church did it and they needed not any pastoral spirit onely Paul addeth ex superabundanti his encouraging consent whereas the work might have been done without officers by this new male-jurisdiction which is contradicted by Mr. Cotton and not owned by the Scripture LIB III. CHAP. I. Of the first subject of Ecclesiastick Power Of the delegated Power of the Church THere is a double Authority one Supreme and Monarchical onely in Christ and another Subordinate and Delegate which 〈◊〉 a Right given by Commission from Christ to fit personâ— to act iâ— his House according to his order By Right is meant jus or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which according to God certain persons possess in their external administrations issuing from such special relations unto which they are called by Christ. 2. It s given to 〈◊〉 persons who are capable to receive this power not to women children â—ad-men c. Therefore let the Reader take notice of that as not worthy to be considered If power be in the Church of believers then women and children may exercise it 〈◊〉 Mr. Ball Mr. R. for they are not fit persons appointed by Christ to manage this power Lastly they must act according to Gods order The whole Church is an Army terrible with Banners but the parts do fight in their own order The power is in the whole firstly but each part knows his rank the officers in their part order and manner the members in theirs The whole acts some things immediately some things mediately Ans. A Monaâ—chical power in Christ we know and authority delegate of Jurisdiction in the Ambassadors and Officers who are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Tim. 5. 17. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Thess. 5. 12. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Heb. 13. 17. Rulers we know but that the people or Church of believers especially separated from officers are called Rulers or indued with any delegate power over we know not whom we reade not in Scripture 2. By the Keyes he must mean both the Keyes of Knowledge and of Jurisdiction But what Scripture gives the pastoral Key to unofficed Brethren I do not know a right given to fit persons without any mentioning of the first subject the Church of confederate Saints as Mr. H. which includes women children of age servants for these are fit persons to be members of the Church built on the Rock and of the Church of Believers Ergo they are fit persons and as fit some of them to wit children of years of discretion and believing servants as the Brethren for neither Sex nor want of understanding nor distemper of judgement the three causes of unfitness owned by Mr. H. can render them more uncapable than the brethren yea the brethren being often unlettered Tradesmen and many of them dull and rude though believers are most unfit persons to judge of sound and unsound Doctrine and of controverted points whether the Pastors teach perverse things Acts 20. 29. hold the doctrine of Balaam Rev. 2. 13. or not and yet by Mr. H. they are the onely and none but they are to judge and try the learning ability of Pastors unsoundness in Socinian Antinomian Popish Arminian c. Tenets though they know no more the Tongues Arts nor Sciences than some Priests who can scarce reade the Mass-book in Latine nor understand the Languge thereof and they onely have power to depose them all for Ignorance and Heresie 2. As for women they are redeemed built on the Rock and have a voice tacit or no let Mr. Hooker say 1. To choose or refuse Officers 1. They are of the sheep that can discern the voice of Christ in sent Pastors Joh. 9 and this is Mr. H. his argument to prove that the people should call their own pastors as hereafttr he saith 2. Women must have a vote in admission of members which Mr. H. calls potestatem judicii a power of judging for they are not to own as Church members and to rehuke and tell the Church and to gain brethren and sisters blindly they by the judgement of discretion if not by more according to Mr. H. must have some hand in this Women are to try by the judgement of discretion the spirits of Teachers whether Antichristian or not whether they be of God or no and to hold what is good as men 1 Ioh. 4. 1. 1 Thess. 5. 21. Ergo they must try both men and doctrines and must as was said withdraw from the unsound and scandalous therefore what Mr. Ball and Mr. R. say touching them must be considered If the power be in the whole Church firstly then must the power of the Keyes be in all the members firstly also if Logick have place and if it be in all then it s in women How came it to women shew the Scripture And whereas Mr. H. saith The whole Church is terrible as an Army with Banners it saith the Church ruling and conquering by the Keyes both of Knowledge and Iurisdiction is made up of ruled commanders and ruled souldiers not of a number of onely brethren and souldiery acts of ruling for of the Church that beareth the Keyes Mr. H. must now speak in women Mr. R. would know for that terribleness is in acts of Discipline not a little if all be terrible then also women Your homogeneous Church which onely and none but they by Mr. H. his doctrine may lift a Banner against all the officers and depose and excommunicate them every man But Mr. Cotton saith to this What haste brother Mr. H Mr. H. This power is either a power of many when combined and this is either a power Of judging judicii or of donation Or its power in one a power of Office The power of judgement the whole hath and doth use in admissions and excommunication the same powâ—r that takes in must cast out Ans. The distinction of power of Office or Order in one who is a Pastor and of
women to whom the grace of saving faith is given but onely the disciples So Luke 22. 28. Ye are they that have continued with me in my temptations v. 29. And I appoint unto you a kingdom Then to the disciples and men not to women who suffer with Christ there is a kingdom appointed Upon this account all the Promises and Consolations of sending the Comforter of the many mansions in his Fathers house which he was to prepare for them do belong to the disciples as brethren and as a male-Church of a single flock without officers not chosen women aged children that believe and therefore these words of Mr. H. that Christ spâ—…s not to all believers in the person of Peter Blessed are ye for flesh and blood c. most injuriously bereave all women all men that are not members by Covenant of this male-congregation of all the Promises of the Gospel and comforts which Christ uttered to his disciples onely Not to say what before I said that 1. This is contrary to the scope of the Text. And 2. contrary to the Peace 2. Comfort 3. Joy 4. Blessedness in the state of Regeneration 5. Faith of their Perseveranâ—â— and 6. Victory over temptations from the gates of Hell of all who contrary to Sects and Heresies and sundamental Errours touching Christ his Nature Offices and Dignity sincerely believe and confess that he is the Messiah the Son of God be they women aged children servants sincere visible Saints of another congregation or sojourning Saints Mr. H. If believers saith Mr. R. 〈◊〉 giving Peters confession and built upon the Rock Christ be made a ministerial Church then the official power of binding and loosing should be made as fiâ—m and sure from defection as the Church of believers built on the Rock Ans. The Assumption is denied for the Church to whom the Keys are firstly given though they have a virtual power to call men to office yet they have not formally official power nor is official power which in great Apostasies may fail of like stability with the visible Church which can never totally fail Ans. My Argument is not faithfully repeated of which I often complain if the Ministerial formal power of ruling and creating and unmaking of officers a virtual power of which he of new speaks I know not for who hath the formal power of calling officers then be given to believers though destitute of Pastors because believers are in a congregational frame built upon the Rock nothing hindreth but ministerial power that is the power of the Keys given to believers which is but a gift given to hypocrites often should be as firm as though believers were built on a rock Mr. H denieth the Assumption onely and seems to yield the Proposition I appeal to the Reader if these words I will build my Church in the frame of a Congregation Independent upon the Rock Christ of the confession of Peter have any such sense for in all Scripture the building upon the rock hath no such sense but noteth Christs building of real believers on himself in the most holy faith which building cannot sail And whereas Mr. H. saith The visible Church cannot totally fail as our Divines say they mean the Catholick visible Church and not your Independent congregations of which they knew nothing who teach this Doctrine So this Argument of mine stands Promises of never falling are made in Scripture to things not to persons as to the Kingdome to the Gospel to the Dominion of Christ Psal. 72. 8. Isa. 9. 7. Luke 1. 33. Isa. 55. 11. Psal. 110. 2. Mat. 24. 14 c. but ever in order to persons especially to that excellentest of persons But of temptations to offices and institutions and promises to such as here we reade not Mr. H. Those to whom saith Mr. R. Christ giveth the Keyes do represent the person of Christ and who despiseth them despiseth Christ and who honour them honour Christ Mat. 10. 40. Now Scripture never saith so of believers They that hear and obey believers hear and obey me Ans. The Proposition is false to represent Christ as stewards belongs onely to them who have office power but the Spouse had power in the family before the stewards and officers were Ans. 1. Yet that must be meant of believers men and women He that despiseth the preaching male Church despiseth me 1. The forgiving or loosing from excommunication as well as preaching the Gospel 2 Cor. 2. 10. and excommunication it self which is given to unofficed brethren by Mr. H. is done 1 Cor. 5. 4. in the name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 therefore they who despise the unofficed Brethren excommunicating despise Christ and excommunicating of heretick Pastors or judicial rejecting there cannot be except unofficed brethren publickly rebuke 1 Tim. 5. 20. and in the Name of Christ judicially declare the man an Heretick and the doctrine Heresie Tit. 3. 10. 2. The comparison that makes every male Church a Spouse of Christ and so multiplies Spouses and Bodies of Christ whereas the Scripture makes but one visible Spouse on earth Cant 4 1 2. 6. 8. 9. 7. 1 2. Eph. 5. 26 27. one Body 1 Cor. 12 12 13. Eph. 1. 23. Col. 1. 18. will not furnish an Argument For 1. A Spouse without stewards may feed may therefore unofficed brethren preach and tender the Seals as Socinians say they may baptize one another 2. A Spouse may create servants of her own devising so may not unofficed brethren do 3. The Scripture makes the Catholick Church Christs Spouse by faith what Word of God warrants every male-society to be a Spouse of Christ by a new devised Oath or Covenant and our brethren cannot give us a Scripture where the male congregation excluding women is called the Spouse Body of Christ built upon the Rock c. Mr. H. Those to whom the Keys are given saith Mr. R. do authoritatively forgive and retain sins The fraternity saith Mr. H. forgives judicially 2 Cor. 2. the officers authoritatively Ans. Brethren and sisters forgive by way of charity the officers authoritatively A judicial forgiving distinct from both in a male-Church is the question begged by Mr. H. not proved 2. He supposeth Paul writeth to this male-Church void of Pastors whereas there were many Pastors there 1 Cor. 14. 29 30 31. 4. 15. 1. 12. nor could they without officers celebrate the Lords Supper as they did 1 Cor. 1 〈◊〉 frequently 3. He supposes they onely were judicially to forgive the incestuous man whereas all in their own way men and women were to forgive him and to converse with him as a brother 2 Cor. 2 7 8. as is said before CHAP. VI. What Church it is that is built on the Rock Mat. 16. whether the visible or invisible Church the Catholick or the single Independent Church BEfore I examine Mr. H. his Reasons take notice of what Mr. H. saith which may conduce to this The Keys and power
of Christ by faith make one body and that he excludes not but includes the visible body he proves from 1 Cor. 12. ye are the body of Christ and Eph. 4. the body gathered by the Ministry of Apostles Evangelists Pastors c. which shall be brought to the unity of faith So Christ is the rock of life and the rock of faith to the Church builded upon the rock which admits not Magns who is not builded upon the rock as Ioh. Hush refused a wicked Pope to be head or member of the Church so built Hieronymus clearly expounds the ports of Hell to be Viâ—ia atque peccata reâ—r vâ—l certè 〈◊〉 Doctrinas sins or herefies which is strong for the invisibâ—e Church of true believers not for the visible congregation of which Iudas and Magus are members to Mr. Hooker and were never built on the rock And the Keyes are given to Bishops and Presbyters who may not under that pretence condemn the innocent And Hieron Com. Mat. 18. 18. Si Ecclesiam non audierit quaecunque alligaveritis potestatem tribuit Apostolis ut sciant qui à 〈◊〉 condeâ—nantur humanam sententiam divinâ roborari quodcunque ligatum fuerit in terra ligari pariter in coelâ— See Hieronym Com. ad Eph. 4. 11. who expounds the body of Christ of the Church until we all meet all the company of believers And Hâ—eron Let the Bishops hear who have power of ordaining Elders in every City Nor need our Brethren suspect Hieronymus to be prelatical his judgment is known to be contrary thereunto See Hieron in Tit. 1. 5. See him for the present purpose in Opuscul in Prover c. 7 p. 217. See Ruffinus for the marks of the true Church saying with us That pure doctrine declares a pure Church and so the Churches which Marcion Valentinus Ebion and Manicheus and other hereticks gather are not true Churches Chrysostom If the ports of hell prevail not against the Church far less shall they prevail against me therefore thou shouldst not be troubled Peter when thou hearest that I shall be crucified Then by the mind of Chrysostom Christ speaks here for the comfort of Peter as a sound believer and not as an external visible member of a congregation as saith Mr. H. And see here a fisher-man is made Pastor and Head of the whole Church Then it could not have been the mind of Chrysostom that such a headship whatever it was or whether peculiar to Peter or no is another question was given to the people Chrysostom expounds tell the Church tell the Rulers Chrysostom As a King sending Iudges gives them power to cast guilty men in prison and to deliver them so sends Christ his Disciples and arms them with authority Will any dream that Chrysostom judgeth that Christ gave this power to the people Chrysostom saith the Apostles take to themselves to determine the number of the Deacons and to ordain them but they give the election of the men to the people lest the Apostles should seem partial and to favour men Mr. H. saith the contrary Valiant Athanasius makes the Church builded upon a Rock to be a strong an unshaken promise and that the Church is an inseparable thing although hell it self were moved and these that are in hell and the Princes of darkness should rage Sure this great Witness never meant any such invincible promise to an external visible congregation and its members Iudas and Simon Magus Peter himself who received the heavenly Keyes sinned saith Athanasius Hilarius commends the Rock which breaks the ports of Hell and sayes that men are loosed or bound in Heaven by condition of the Apostles sentence then doth he not think it the sentence of the people Let the learned judge of the ancient writings of Clemens that Epistle of his to the Corinthians read sometimes in the ancient Church will have Mr. Hookers visible converts only Church-matter though he writ to them as the true Church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Yet he writes of a sad change of their profession such as was in Israel when they made defection to Idolatry 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 It were hard to say such a company are all visible converts 2. Clemens seems to deny to the people power of commanding and to say that the preachers ordained Bishops and Deacons 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Cyrillus Alexandrinus upon these words I will give thee the Keyes he gifted universally all the Apostles with power over unclean spirits then neither the one power nor the other gave he to the people Cyril Alexan. in Isa. l. 5. pag. 393. Cyrillus tom 2 dialog de Trinitat l. 4. pag. 278. Peter is so called from his most firm and unshaken faith in qua Ecclesia Christi ita fundata ac firmatt essâ—t ut non laberetur esser expugnabilis inferorum portis aeterâ—…um manens on which the Church is built that it cannot fail but remains for ever cannot be overcome by the ports of hell Cyrillus well knew single congregations are not invincible and he speaks of such a saving faith as Magus cannot have it came from the Father teaching ex ineffabili eruditione superna c. See what Apostolick dignity he gave to them which he gave not to the people Cyrill in Ioan. l. 12. c. 56. page 699 700. Cyrill on Isa. 5. c. 60 page 383. August tom 10. Dom. 11 post Epiphan sect 2 page 235. Tertius modus est quomodo totus Christus secundum Ecclesiam id est caput corpus praediceturâ— etenim caput corpus unus Christus non quia sine corpore non est integer sed quia nobiscum integer esse dignatus est membra Christi corpus sumus omnes simul non qui hoc loco sumus tantum fed per universam terram nee qui tantum hoc tempore sed qui dicam ex Abelâ—…sto usque in finem seculi quandiu generant generantur hominis It were needless to prove a visible integral catholick Church all the world over not in Asia onely from Augustine 2. Or to prove a mixture of tares and wheat of good and bad in the visible Church and that they are not visible converts that are members of the visible Church 3. How far in the communion of the Church and of Sacraments mali maculent contaminent bonos see August-cont Epist. Parmen Mr. H. deviseth a way for this It s referred to a mans free choice without any compulsion of any to what congregation he shall joyn himself or not and though the doctrine and ordinances be most pure yet he may keep within himself the causes of his not joyning thinking such are profane and so there is little or nothing of Christs presence in this Church But the formal cause of joyning to a Church in which one should reside is not the holiness of members but the soundness and purity of
some spirituall operation from Christ as a head therefore such onely are members of a Church Answ. No man seems more to study to darken the matter then the reverend arguer 1. He omits all along the word visible which is mainly in question 2. He himself is forced to distinguish a two fold headship of Christ for Christ is head to the visible Church either politick according to the politick government and guidance he lends to it or according to the influence of saving grace life the members of Christs body according to the politick external government are fit alone to be members of a true Church visible or truly visible such as Magus Demas and many gifted men are the proposition is true and granted But onely visible Saints who according to the rules of reasonable charity may be conceived to have some special good or which is all one to be reall believers are onely members of Christs body according to politick and external government the assumption is false and never proved a meer begging of the question for not onely such as are conceived in charity to to be real converts such as Magus Iudas c. but also Peter Iohn and such as prosess subjection to the Gospel and withall do really believe 〈◊〉 members of the true visible Church and the Lords visible confederates whether they be conceived to have some special good of conversion and saving grace in them or not nor does the formality of a visible member or a visible confederate depend upon the judgment of men And it is most false which is said in the probation that onely conceived and so judged visible Saints have the politick influence of some spiritual operation from Christ the head for godly professors whether they be conceived and judged or not conceived or judged godly professors have both real and internal in foro Dei and also external and ecclesiastick right to the ordâ—…ces of Christ should all the world say the contrary And by our brethrens nay workers of iniquity and these that are never known nor chosen of God but are exactly gâ—lded hypocrites and never receive any power or trial at all in their kind from their head Christ as may be proved from Matth. 7. 22 23. Matth. 22. 11 1â— Matth. 13. 47. 48. Matth. 25. 3. 2 Tim. 3. 3. are visible Saints not because they are so but because they are falsely so esteemed by men to be such Hence 1. our brethrens way makes not a whit a cleaner visible Church then our way 2. The politick influence of Christ the head upon such painted tombs can be none at all before their membership How then can they have virtual influence of some spiritual operation from the head supposed influence is no influence at all And not any of these texâ—s say that the Church 1 Cor. 12. 12. and Ethes 4. 12 13. is not the body of Christ visible except men conceive it to be his visible body such new divinity is unknown to Scripture If the other part of the distinction be applied to the argument both the propositions shall be false so the members of Christs body by the influence of saving grace are fit alone to be members of the true visible Church nothing is more false for then the true visible Church should be made up of only true and real converts glad shall Anabaptists and Familists be of this doctrine and except the propositions be so taken M. H. but paints us a false Church 3. The places 1 Cor. 12. 12. Eph. 4. 12 13 speak nothing of Mr Hookers single congregation but of the Catholick visible Church which shall meet all in the unity of faith and in which the Lord hath set Apostles 1 Cor. 12. 28. and 4. 14 15. and that is not a single congregation 4. Though the places speak of the visible Church yet do not these places say that the visible Church as visible but as the real mystical body of Christ which shall be glorified with Christ is called Christ Ephes. 4. 13. 〈◊〉 Cor. 12. 12 13. and the body of Christ by the influence of saving grace CHAP. III. Other arguments of M. Hookers for the constitution of the Church of his visible Saints MAster Hookers two reasons These are â—is to be members of Christs Church that are subjects of Christs kingdome The Church is the visible kingdome in which Christ reigns by the scepter of his word ordinances and discipine he is our king he is our Law-giver they who are in professed rebellion are traytors not subjects the members of the body are under the motion and guidance of the head Wolves are contrary to it But visible Saints as formerly described are onely subjects of this kingdome Christ is the king of Saints not of Dâ—unkards Atheists they alone Saints proclaim subjection in their practice Answ. The terme onely is wanting in the proposition which is in the assumption and conclusion contrary to right Logick 2. These are fit to be members of Christs Church visible that are subjects by an influence of grace to wit from their head and king calling effectually Acts 15. 14 15. Isai. 55. 4. 5. and giving them repentance and forgiveness of sins Acts 5. 31. of the kingdome of Christ visible or invisible the proposition is true but that such visible Saints as Magus and Iudas the traytor which are the visible Saints M. H. defines in terminis part 1. cap. 2. pag. 15. conclus 2. are subjects and onely subjects of this kingdome as his assumption sayes in express termes is most false now that the argument must mean of the subjects of Christs kingdome real and of members by the influence of saving grace from Christ their head and king I prove from the argument that M. H. brings from Isaâ— 33 22. for M. H. his visible Saints Magus and Iudas cannot 〈◊〉 Say the Lord is our Law-giver the Lord is our Iudge the Lord is our king and he will save us if Sorcerers and Traytors should say so they should lie Isaiah speaks of real converts and the true Sion whose stakes and cords shall never be removed so as the gates of hell saith Marlorat on the place shall not prevail against them He speaketh as yet saith Piscator to the godly Iews so that saith Calvin God is in the miast of her therefore she shall not be moved for saith Musculus my sheep shall no man pluck out of my hand 2. He speaketh of these not of such as Iudas and Magus who shall be protected and saved by the Lord vers 21 22. he speaks of the true Church which acknowledges God her Law giver and King so Calvin the Church saith Bullinger is so armed with the grace of God that she yields not to evils nor is broken but remains ever sure 3. He speaks of that kingdome and people whose inhabitants shall not say I am sick the people that dwell therein their iniquity shall be forgiven them vers 24. onely the citizens
are not made to single Churches or kingdomes provinces since the famous Churches of Rome Ephesus Thessalonica of Asia are horribly fallen these previledges belong firstly and principally to the Catholick visible Church as Mysticall and invisible both subjectivè and finaliter or objectively especially as they are Gods treasures M. H. pag. 18. M. R. yields the causes while he granteth the wicked are forbidden what to be Church members no but to take the covenant of God in their mouth for if they come to see their sinne reform their evil wayes they are non-visible Saints therefore while they remain haters of reformation they are not visible Saints and have no title to be Church-members Answ. The cause is never a whit the more yielded because of M. H. his mistake in proving one thing for another the Lord Psal. 50. 16 forbids hypocrites remaining hypocrites to take the Lords covenant in their mouth but I said not therefore he forbids the Church to take in any as members but these onely to come to see thâ—ir sinne and to reform their evil waye as M H. saith which is indeed to yield the cause for if they who leave the wayes of Pâ—ganisme Iudaisme Popery and the wayes of sin professe they are willing to be the disciples of Christ if the profession be not grossely and knownly hypocriticall and their coming in be not for by-ends and to betray the cause but morally ingenuous and negatively sincere the Church is to receive such and is not forbidden to admit them as members whether to the knowledge of the Church they be reall converts or not reall converts I grant it is another thing if they refuse to come and to be baptized Luk. 7. 29 30. Luk. 14. 17 18. sure no man can be a Church-member against his will 2. The Lord may well rebuke Magus and Iudas while they are Church-members the same way that he rebukes the hypocrites Psal. 50. 16 17. and say what have you to do to declare my statutes c. for I know your hearts how you hate instruction c. and yet the Church sinnes not in admitting them 3. M. H. confounds these two to wit the seeing of sinne and reforming of their evill way which is reall and sincere repentance if it be a saving sight of sinne they sincerely repent if it be counterfeit to wit the giving evidence of godly sorrow and repentance the Church may see the latter and yet Magus and Iudas remaine under the same reproof for they may in their heart hate instruction and act these sinnes of partaking with thieves secretly and be secret adulterers and the word may reprove them and yet there is no blame in the Church in either admitting them or in bestowing Church-priviledges upon them CHAP. V. Of the call of God to make a Church 2. there may be a true visible Church and members thereof before there be any seals in that Church Whether the preaching of the word be an essentiall mark of the Church MAster Hooker pag 18. M. Rutherfurd such as internally hate to be reformed may be ordinary hearers and so members M. H. if ordinary hearing made a member then excommunicate persons should be members for they are ordinary hearers Ans. If M. R. make every ordinary hearing to make a member of the Church ordinary and intire he saith something 2. This twitcheth the question whether the preaching of the Gospel be an essentiall note and marke of the visible Church Before I speak how far persons excommunicate are members or not members of the visible Church hence 1. Any sort of profession whether by an avowing of that Gospel to one another or suffering for it even when the sheepheards are smitten and the flock scattered is a practicall and very speaking mark that such a company is a true Church 2. A pastorall publishing of the word is a speciall mark and an great-half of a note of a Ministeriall Politick Church Though the administration of the seals to those capable of them added thereunto make a more complete marke of a more complete Ministeriall Church 3. The active call of God by the preached word may be transient and occasionall to mocking Athenians Act. 17. and yet intended to save some and to be a seed to some Church v. 34. certain be leed this is the seed of some Church like some cornes of wheat scatteredly fallen in a field that may have an harvest 4. This active call may be refused and the refusers never be the Church Luk. 14 16 17. not visible members they visibly refusing the call and counsell of God and neglecting obstinately to be baptized Luk. 7â— 30. 5. But we mean beside this active call some passive professing and receiving of and yielâ—…g to the offered Gospel So as they came to the marriage-supper whether they have or want a wedding garment Mat. 22. and receive the seed whether they be thorny rockie or a way-side ground or they be good soile and may yield some externall obedience in this consideration Pagans and Turks are not passively the called of God nor members of the visible Church though they be hearers but that they be ordinary fixed hearers and yet in no sort externall professors but remain without and be Pagans is not conceiveable except they professedly heare for curiosity or to mock or to undermine the Gospel and Church and so they are not to be admitted to be hearers or Church members except by violence they thrust themselves in among hearers 1. Abraham called with his house to leave idolatry obeyeth the calling buildeth an altar to the Lord Gen. 12. 1 2 c. 18. Professeth and teacheth as a Prophet the doctrine of the covenant and God appearing revealeth the Gospel to him Genes 12. v. 2 3 Genis 15. 4 5 6 7. and he believeth and so he and his house is a visible Church when not while many yeers after and untill he was ninetie years and nine the seal of circumcision was ordained and given to him and his house Genes 17. 1 2 3. and the Church is a true visible Church in the wildernesse in which was the Angel of the covenant who spake to Moses in mount Sina Act. 7. 38. which is a note and marke of a true visible Church Revel 1. 20. Rev. 2. 1. which yet wanted circumcision and the passeover forty years in the wildernesse Iosh. 5. 5 6 7. this proves that there is a true visible Church where Christ is and yet wanteth the ordinary seals Baptisme and the Lords supper 2. When the Apostles first planted Churches we have no ground that they preached to Ephesus to Galathia to Philippi to Corinth where God had much people as the Lord before had told Paul Act. 16. 6 7 10 11 12 13. Act. 18. 7 8 9 10. and that they framed them not into Churches untill to the satisfaction of the judgement of charity of the Apostles they were converts and so to them all chosen to eternall life and untill they did
They speak not feebly but rationally who say that rationall discoursing as fixed in a man is an essentiall mark of a man M. H. par 1. c. 2. pag. 19. M. Rutherfurd said the argument is nothing against us such adulterers Psal. 50. as are not to take the Law in their mouth are to be cast out but the question is whether if they be not cast out the Church for that be no true Church M. H. Answer the first part yieldeth the cause again for if they should be cast out there is no reason they should be received or taken in nor have they any right thereunto nor be they fit matter Answ. M. Rutherfurd is not such a yielder of truth as so for M. Hookers argument yieldeth more thus these who are worthy to be casten out had never right to be received in as Church members so M. H. But adulterers who take the law in their mouth known adulterers so M. Rutherfurd yieldeth and no otherwayes are worthy to be casten out ergo adulterers who take the law in their mouth had never right to be received in as Church-members 1. M. Hookers proposition is most false for thousands as Magus and others worthy to be casten out had right Church right of that onely we speak such as pastors can give them to be admitted members so the Scripture so M. H. part 1. chap. 2. conclus 3. pag. 27 When then both the proposition and assumption are taught in Scripture granted by M H see now who yieldeth the cause 2. to say if they should be casten out ergo they had never right to come in is as if he wouâ—d say such a woman hath committed harlotry with many men beside her husband ergo she had never right to be a married wife and was never lawfully marryed and so hath neither committed adultery nor deserveth a bill of divorce 3 No more can follow from this that adulterers once admitted to membership falling into scandals ought to be casten out ergo if they had been under the same scandall visibly they ought not to have been taken in but this supposeth a begging of the question that there is in Scripture a gathering of Churches of visible converts out of Churches of men and women born and baptized in their infancy within the visible Church which yet I say was never dreamed of by the Apostles and though it were so whether we speak of such a gathering or of gathering of Churches out of Pagans persons not capable of Gospel-scandals before their admission which may hold them out as they are guilty of Gospel-scandals after they profess the Gospel For then an unmarried woman might be capable of adultery with her own husband before she be married upon him 2. as to that which M. Rutherfurd said that supposed they were not cast out the question is whether the Church for that be no Church M. H. saith that wholly misseth the mark again for the question is twitching the constitution of the Church of what matter it should be made it is not twitching separation from the Church To which I answer because I dispute against both these of the congregation and the Separatists our brethren having no arguments but such as Separatists and Anabaptists have and with more vigour prosecuted then they because I conclude against separation as well as against them having to do with two adversaries and giving one answer to the one which yet is not taken off and another answer to the other it is not equal dealing to say the answer to the Separatists wholly misseth the mark because it is not the same with the answer to the congregational way 2. M. H. declineth an answer to that which I said against the separation that if any were not casten out it followeth not that the Church leaveth off to be a Church and must be separated from But our brethrens practise in New England is if any Church do not cast out such as deserved to be cast out to non-communion them and declare them to be no Churches of Christ and so they must be separated from which can be upon no ground but because they maintain a Church to be no true Church consisting of false matter and visibly unregenerate and would M. H. have Church-Communion kept with such yea his arguments first and second which are both but one though he find out four where there are scarce three prove them to be no visible Church for he must stand by this as his own These to whom Christ is head and king by the influence of politick guidance and motion of the head as leige subjects are the onely fit matter of the visible Church and the onely true visible Church But such as deserve to be casten out and are not casten out yea are owned still as Church-members are not such to whom Christ is head and king Ergo such leave off to be members and are not a visible Church the proposition and assumption both are M. Hookers I confesse when an answer cannot be taken away it is a compendious way to say not one word to it but simply the answer doth wholly misse the marke M. H. must say a Church of false matter is no Church or then with us a society professing the pure doctrine of Christ though the members be wicked is a true Church CHAP. VII M. Hookers reason why he passeth in silence the arguments of his own book of discipline of the Churches of New England for the constitution of a visible Church and defendeth them not a scanning of these arguments MAster Hooker part 1. ch 2. pag. 19. passeth in silence the arguments of the way of the Churches of New England except a gentle hint he hath at the first but he omitteth the nerves thereof onely he bringeth four arguments of his own in my apprehension inferior not a little to the arguments of learned M. Cotton it was wisdome so to do onely in the place pag. 15. he giveth us a short list of his visible Saints we are saith he from rationall charity to say and hope and so are bound to conceive they are Saints converts and internally justified so Iudas Magus Ananias c. though hidden hypocrites were such and therefore our Saviour proceedeth with such not as God who knoweth the heart but in a Church way as these who Iudge the tree by the fruit the Church cannot judge of bid things nor censure them Answ. 1. Then the Saints faithfull brethren temples of the holy Ghost at Rome Ephesus must be proven to be visible Saints from the Scripture from such a visible Saintship as our Saviour and the Apostles saw in these goodly ungodly Saints Iudas Magus c. for if these titles conclude that they were internally converted and chosen to grace and glory c. as Ephs. 1. 3. 1 Thess. 5. 10. 2 Thess. 13. 14. 1 Cor. 3. 16. as they do then must all and every visible member of these Churches be visible elects
the Elect pag. 39 40. and such rotten ones as Magus and Iudas 2. How a false and a true right can come from the same command of God let Mr. H. judge Lastly it is poor to say How come hypocritical Professors to have right to the Seals As visible Members they have none as invisible Members they have none for such they are not Ans. True they are not but Mr. H. gives them the same right with invisible Members quo jure let him shew Ergo the Church must give them no Seals or give them Seals when she cannot know they have any right for indeed they have none that is true and real Ans. The Church doth obey Christ in giving them Seals and it well follows Ergo The Church giveth them Seals when she cannot know they have any right to wit internal and real which is a saving priviledge of special note in the Mediator to the Seals including signes and the grace signified for so onely they do belong in the Lords intention and eternal decree to real believers not to Magus and Iudas except Mr. H. will stand for Arminian Universal Grace and say that God intends the same saving grace in Ordinances and Seals to Peter and Iohn and likewise to Pharaoh and Magus CHAP. XVII Whether the visible Church as visible can bear these styles of the Body of Christ of the Redeemed of God the Spouse of Christ c. Mr. H. saith These things may well be given to the visible Church Those over whom Officers are set to feed them by Doctrine and Discipline must needs be the visible Church But these are the Church Act. 20. 28. Feed the flock not of the Elect onely but of the whole visible Church Take heed to the whole flock of God else if they were set over the Elect onely they might reply Lord we cannot search into thy secrets who are the Elect and invisible Saints onely to feed them where as the current and common sense of the Scripture is taking Redeemed and Sanctified as visible though not really such the stream of the Text runs pleasantly Feed all visibly redeemed Elect and Reprobate So they be redeemed in the judgement of Charity Ans. 1. The Church visible is taken two wayes 1. In the latitude as comprehending all Professors sound as Peter or rotten as Magus all which have a sort of right to the Seals but divers wayes as is said 2. More restricted as a Church so and so visible as the soundest part of real believers comprehending in Corinth onely such as are really justified sanctified c. In the latter â—ense the Church visible and professing is one in the matter all one with the Church invisible and soundly and sincerely professing and Peter is both a real believer and visible and soundly professing believer In the former sense Paul writing to Corinth to Ephesus 1 Cor 1. Eph. 1. 1. Rom. 1. 7. to the Romans calleth all the Church visible there justified or not justified the Church to wit the Church visible In the latter sense onely the so and so visible professors sanctified justified are the onely really soundly professing visible Church and the whole is named from the sounder part In the latter sense Christ is head and Husband of the visible Church consisting of onely real sound visible Professors and that not onely by the influence of politick guidance but also by the influence of saving grace But of this visible Church Mr. H. moves not the question and therefore his Arguments speed the worse 2. The Argument of the same strain is formed by the Arminians so As many as are the really redeemed Church say the Arminians and As many as are the Church of God redeemed in the judgement of Charity saith Mr. H. the Elders were to feed But the Elders were to feed the whole flock Elect and Reprobate real believers and hypocrites But the Proposition is denied and how either the Arminians or Mr. H. prove the Proposition we see not For Redemption to be bought with the blood of God yea to be chosen to life before the foundation of the world which are proper to the invisible Church onely are attributed to the visible Church of Ephesus Eph. 1. 4. Was it Pauls minde that thanks should be given to God because God hath chosen us all and every one of the visible Church here is Universal Predestination of Ephesus before the foundation of the world to be really holy for of that holiness he speaks because from eternity God had in the judgement of charity chosen to life and holiness such as Magus and Iudas and the grievous Wolves in that Church So must Paul say 2 Thess. 2. 13. We are bound to give thanks to God for you all whom we feed all to whom we write real converts or hypocrites that God hath in the judgement of charity chosen you all salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and bilief in the truth 2. The Proposition is false That as many as in the judgement of charity were bought with the blood of God as were to be fed with Doctrine and Discipline and so with Excommunication Then were they to esteem all the grievous Wolves that spared not the flock but preached perverse things Acts 20. 28 29. and all that had in such a manner fallen from their first love and first works yea all the Apostates in the judgement of charity to be bought with the blood of God and eternally chosen to life and saved for the Officers were to feed all these with Exhortations Threatnings Censures Now the latter is unsound But 3. They were all recommended to the care of Pastors as dear bought True but not as if all were dear bought the Text saith not that Mr. H. no doubt sinned with the Arminians in adding that to the Text for a father departing may recommend his family of children and servants to a Steward because saith the father they are dear to me it will not follow that they are all dear to him as children 4. Feed the Redeemed flock not as known to you to be Redeemed or Predestinated to life but as professors among whom are my ransomed ones 5. The Text runs in its stream most muddily not pleasantly if the world and the whole world Ioh. 1. 29. 3. 16. 1 Ioh. 2. 1 2. and the All that Christ died for be the Church of converts in charities judgement behold Mr. H. turns the world all the world all the world for whom Christ died before they were born and had being into visible Saints and when the Lord saith Ephraim is his dear son Jer. 31. and Israel a holy priesthood a chosen generation the currant and pleasant sense must be All and every one in the ten Tribes and all Israel are the Lords dear children and Priests sanctified to offer themselves an holy living sacrifice to God in the judgement each one of another though there be to their knowledge many thousand visible Idolaters Murtherers
way interest of existence to grow in the Hand and another way interest of existence to grow in the body and in all the parts of it it is a member or part of the hand and also of the whole body but the Thumb hath no possible interest of existence to grow in the head in the leg And so is Iohn a near and fixed member of the congregation of Boston and a common and remoter member of the whole integral Catholick Churches of Hartford of Cambridge of Norwich and of all the congregations on earth but it follows not Ergo Iohn hath an interest of exâ—stence to be fed and to exist at one time in all the congregations on earth as the common nature of man of substantia corpus vivâ—ns animal homo exists in all the individuals at once It is wilde Logick to put no difference between a whole integral and the parts and whole essential and the parts subjective or species and individuals so as one integral member may exist at the same place where all the members exist Mr. H. That which equally belongs to all that can make no particular appropriation to any out rather than to another if a woman love all Christian men with Christian affection she is not therefore a wife to this or that man but this profession is equal and indifferent as well to one and to all as to another Ans. All is granted for we teach not that profession as profession makes a man a fixed and a married member of this Independent Congregation rather than this so that it shall be spiritual Adultery to partake of Church ordinances elswhere we detest such a comparison destructive to Church-communion for profession as profession declares the man to the Rulers to be a Church-member in all congregations on earth It declares I say as before but does not as a formal cause make a Church-member and it declares he hath right as a citizen of the visible Church that Rulers without sin may admit him to Ordinances but profession makes him not a member visible of onely this one congregation yea that one be a fixed member of this congregation is 1. An Affirmative command not binding ad semper Nor 2. does it tie but as being a member of the Catholick Church which is a confession of Christ before men And 3. it is of providential conveniency for the more careful feeding but not of divine institution or marriage tye CHAP. XXIII Whether Mr. Hooker doth concludently refute this which Mr. R. holdeth That he who is a Member of one Congregation is also a Member of all Congregations on earth 1. LEt it be remembred in what sense I make profession and Baptism to have influence in Membership 2. That I make not Peter a member of this congregation onely and of the whole integral Catholick Church or of all congregations on earth one and the same way for though the right to Christ the Head to Ordinances and Seals be one yet Peter is a fixed member of this congregation a transient member to all other congregâ—tions 2. He is a proper member and nearer of this congregation and a more common and remote member to all as the thumb is a nearer and proper part of the hand and a more common and remote part of the whole organical body and Richard a near member of Norwich and a more remote and common member of the Kingdome of England 3. I am constrained to take in some Arguments transposed by Mr. H. that were in the former Chapter Mr. H. To be a member of the Catholâ—ck Church firstly to a whole which a man neither did nor can see nor do any homage to nor receive any influence or direction from for Government is a sublimated imagination Ans. This makes the Doctrine of Oecumenick Councels holden by Calvin Melancthon Luther Whitaker and all the learned Divines in the Christian world to be a sublimated imagination and Mr. Cotton his associate to be sick of the same imagination and the decrees 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the Apostles and Elders Acts 16. 4. by which the Churches were established ver 5. to have no influence of Government upon the Churches 2. It must be a sublimated imagination That the whole Churches of Jews and Gentiles who could not see the faces of all the Apostles nor do any homage to them nor receive any direction except in their Writings which yet may be from them should be governed by the Apostles and it must be an imagination That the Apostles were members of the Catholick integral Churches and never fixed and married members of the single congregation and could every one of the ten thousands of the congregational Church of Ierusalem as our Brethren will have it be be governed by the whole Church except they had seen the faces of all the thousands that governed them Mr. H. If a man that is a Member of one Congregation â—e also a Member of all Congregations on earth then he can perform the duties of a Member to all but that is impossible Ans. The duties we owe to members of the integral Catholick Church are 1. Common and personal as Church-praying Church-praising Church-fasting for the evils of sin or judgement Isa. 62. 6. Psal. 122. 6. Eph. 6. 18. 3. 14. Rom. 12. 18. 1 Cor. 12 26. they being members of the same body with us Eph. 4. 1 2 3 4 5. and their good or hard condition being known to us which say also they are one visible body with us these duties are possible and necessary if the meaning be of occasional duties of love not in word but in deed as giving of alms to brethren I judge of all congregations beside our own Iam. 〈◊〉 If a brother or a sister be naked c. of what ever congregation on earth where providence cast your lot to be 1 Ioh. 3. 17. If I say he mean such duties of members to forreign Church-members as Church-members be impossible I much differ from Mr. H. it is contrary to 2 Cor. 9. 1 2 3. Gal. 6. 10. And the like I say of duties of occasional comforting rebuking warning one another even in order to Church-members and Church-duties They are this way impossible that physically I cannot be in all places to discharge these duties But to fetch an Argument as watery I might say A man in Muscâ—via cannot be to a Scottish-man a neighbour whom he is to love as himself A man in Morpeth cannot be a fellow-member both with another mâ—n in Morpeth and with another English Subject who dwelleth four hundred miles from him whom he never saw not can see Why its impossible he can discharge the duty of neighbour-love to the one that he never saw nor possibly can see or that of a fellow-subject of England as toward the other Yea by this its impossible one can discharge the duties of personal watching over five thousand members of the congregation as they say of Ierusalem
is a device of men So no such Covenant is in Scripture in framing of Churches Mr. H. The solemnity of fasting and praying is onely required at the first founding of a Church Acts 2. where there is onely an addition of members the stroke on the Spirit by the Ministery of the Apostles was so extraordinary that they needed no miraculous discerning Ans. 1. Mr. H. may make the Reader believe that I am against fasting and praying at either planting of or addition to Churches and therefore divides my Argument for I argue from the want not of fasting and praying onely but 2. No Church-covenant was here nor 3. Any frequent meeting of the members to be acquainted with the spiritual state one of another nor was it possible these things could be in seven hours space All which they require in founding Churches and so there was no day of fasting kept by the Church baptized 2. There is an addition that the Christian Church was also solemnly founded Mr. H. Theâ—r stedfast continuing was after they were added Ergo saith Mr. R. that could not make them members Ans. Nor lies the Argument there from the effect to the cause they continued Ergo they took themselves engaged to continue Ans. There is no doubt they took themselves engaged by Baptism 2. Did Ananias and Sapphira either continue stedfastly or take themselves engaged by Church-covenant for we now speak of visible actings that agree to Church members as such therefore they took themselves to be engaged members and members to that onely Church by a solemn Marriage-covenant is a dream unwritten Mr. H. Where there is a solemn baptizing into a Church the person is made a Disciple of Christ Matth. 28. 19. So to be a Disciple is to be ingraffed into the body of Christ and to be made a fellow-heir of the same body Eph. 3. 6. that is of the visible Church Joh. 12. 40. though many believed in him yet they would not confess him or be his disciples Ans. 1. If confessing and being a disciple be one and if solemn baptizing make a disciple as from Matth. 28. and Ioh. 12. Mr. H. saith Then 1. Must Infants be actual disciples 2. Actual confessors 3. In danger to be excommunicate for the Jews made such an act Ioh. 9. 2. Ingraffing in the body is to be made a fellow-heir and of the same body of Iews and Gentiles who were partakers of the promise of Christ by the Gospel and fellow-citizens with the Saints and of the houshold of God built upon the foundation Eph. 3. 8. 2. 19. and comprehendeth both the truly believing visible body and invisible And when and who made Magus and Iudas partakers of the promise of Christ by the Gospel and fellow-heirs of the same body 3. Did ever man dream that this body is a single Congregation and not that its the great Catholick Body of Iews and Gentiles Eph 3. 5 6. 2 15 16 19 Mr. H. The people are said to magnifie the Apostles that is to approve their doctrine and the goodness thereof yet there was more required to this Church-work and to bâ—come a disciple and therefore it s added And the believers were added i. e. they confessed thâ—ir sins and became disciples and followers of that Doctrine and so covenanted for their children Else we cannot reason against the Anabaptists If the converted father was baptized therefore the children The place thus expounded is not taken out of our hand Ans. The scope of the place is not to shew the qualification of visible members but that though Satan had made a â—oul breach in the Church by the lying hypocrisie of Ananias and Sapphira yet the Lord was mighty in the Apostles by the miraculous and righteous smiting of the hypocrites and other mighty wonders to the admiration of all and the terrour of many Acts 5. 1 2. 11 12 13. and that breach by their death was made up ver 14. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Believers were the more added not to the visible Church onely but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the Lord which was a real addition of real believers as the same phrase is cap. 2. ver 47. not unlike 2. The magnifying of Apostles is spoken of beâ—ievers who not onely approved their doctrine but confessed the power of God to be in the Apostles miracles and some fear of God as Calvin saith Oecumenius They praised that Gospel powâ—r Chrysostom They do not mock nor threaten yet they seem as our Interpreters to be medii homines not wicked despiserâ— 3. He expounds they were added i. e. they confessed their sins and became disciples and followers of that doctrine But sure confessing of sins and professing of the doctrine if he mean such a following â—s was in Magus it s a hungry Exposition of being added to the Lord since it is in many hypocrites that are never added to the Lord. 2. If he mean that they were practical followers of the Apostles doctrine as he must if he say any thing more than what he said before sure that must be an habitual constant walking with God all their life and cannot be before they were added Acts 2. for they were believers and added the same day cap. 2 and cap. 5. Nor sayes he any thing for adding of visible members cap. 5. but all their life they were added to the Lord. And is that the meaning of Luke either cap. 2. or cap. 5 Sure Luke sets down the history of men added to the Lord at the sight of these miracles 4. It s a wonder men are so bold with the Scripture They were added i. e. They became disciples and so engaged themselves and covenanted also for their children But did their being added to the Church and to the Lord which certainly in the sincere part was real and sound believing include the swearing of this Church-covenant to be watching members married to the onely single Congregation of Ierusalem and to no other visible Church on earth If to dictate be to prove then we have more than enough of this 5. If Mr. H. judge that Calvin Pet. Martyr Beza Ursin Pareus and our Worthies cannot reason for Infant baptism against Anabaptists except thus The fathers are married members by Church-covenant to one single Congregation Ergo Infants must be baptized Or thus The really converted father must be baptized Ergo the children We have a weak part of it for this strengthens Anabaptists not a little for the common Arguments both of our Brethren and the Anabaptists are They must be real converts that are Church-members as I have proved And sure our Brethren judge it absurd that the Seal of Baptism should be put into a blank or to a falshood Now since Baptism is the seal of our Regeneration either must our Brethren put a blank and a falshood which the Church who knows not the heart without sin put upon Iudas or then with monstrous charity they must
an organical body the adjuncts thereof for the members and organs of an organical body are the integral parts and so in a physical consideration the essential parts of the whole integral are not adjuncts by any Logick I know and if you take away the integral parts wholly you destroy the integral whole but if you remove the adjuncts or accidents you destroy not the subject 2. What Logick is this to make the Fathers Apostles and Pastors who beget and the Ministers by whom we believe and visibly believe Rom. 10. 14 15. Eph. 4. 11 12. 1 Cor. 3. 5. the separable adjuncts of begotten children This is strange Logick Whiteness begot Snow And this is as strange that this Church of believers is the cause and the officers the effect that is the adjunct is the cause and the children the Church of believers or the subject is the effect and the effect begets the cause and is before the cause and the fruit hath being before the tree and the children before the father for if we speak of a constant Rule as now we must do when Apostles are removed if the Church of believers be a visible Church having the Keyes and using them even to admit officers and to excommunicate them they 1. Dispense censures and govern who have no call to carry on censures and government by preaching the Word or exhorting and praying for there are no officers as yet c. If these be visible believers who are their fathers who begat them for there are no officers yet to beget them 3. Who begot them by the preaching of the Word and if they were heathens and are now converted who either did convert them or baptize them for there are no officers as yet Did every one baptize another or did unbaptized members baptize their own Ministers who are yet unbaptized and this argument must be strongly retorted The officers cannot be the effect of this Church for they are the onely causes of the very materials of this Church for officers must convert gather a flock to God and baptize them if it be true that faith comes in the Lords ordinary and instituted way by hearing of sent Pastors Rom. 10. 14. Mr. H. The Church saith Mr. R. is the candlestick not simply without candles and lamps the Church Ministerial is the candlesticks and the Ministers the shining torches and candles It s cross to all mens apprehensions saith Mr. H. that the candlestick should be no longer a candlestick than the candle is in it They are bought and sold for candlesticks Is not a subject a subject though the adjunct be not there What kinde of Logick is this Ans. It s indeed unknown Logick that officers the fathers should be adjuncts and the Church of believers begotten by them as is said the children should be the subject 2. Mr. H. will have a figurative speech against all Logick and Grammar to be a proper speech and the candlestick Rev. 1. 20. to be like the candlesticks of brass or other metal or wood which are bought or sold. So when it s said Christ walketh in the midst of the golden candlesticks the sense must be Christ walkesh in the midst of Churohes destitute of Angels and Officers Whereas he hath promised his presence to the officers Matth. 28. 20. especially Lâ—â— I am with you and by this Christ must promise his presence to blinde candlesticks and to Churches wanting officers and Angels Then the meaning of this Rev. 2. 5. I will remove the candlestick must be O Ephesus I will remove believers and that homogeneal body of Saints as destitute of Angels Never man dreamed of any such sense as this since the world was But the true sense is I will remove a shining Ministery and the Ordinances and the eight of the pâ—…ed Gospel and the Word of the Kingdom as Zech. 9. 8. Three shepherds also I cut off in one moneth Then said I I will not feed you Amos 8. 12. They shall seek the word of the Lord and shall not finde it Mat. 21. 43. The kingdom of God shall be taken from you Acts 13. 46 47. Let Mr. H. shew how the Church without the Minister is called the golden candlestick And where the Church of believers without the stars and torches is called The light of the world Godly and found Interpreters Pareus Pignetus Marlorat Piscater Diâ—â—ati English Divines The Church are candlesticks because they bear saith Pareus the torch of heavenly Doctrine So Pignetus Marlorat Piscator Mr. H. A Corporation of Aldermen before they choose a Major is a free Corporation Ergo the Church of believers is a visible Church before it have officers A man cannot be a husband before he have a wife yet he may be a man wooing woman before he can make her his wise Ans. 1. The comparison is most unlike For 1. A Corporation of Aldermen is a Corporation of free Citizens and Magistrates such as Aldermen are though they yet want a Magistrate supreme or a Major The Church void of all officers 〈◊〉 not a body capable of governing in a formal way 2. Say they want Aldermen they had by nature an intrinsacal power to choose to themselves private men to be their Rulers whereas before they were no Rulers But the making and laying on of hands upon men to make them Elders agrees not to believers because visible believers by the Law of Nature but by a positive Law of God is given to a certain number of Presbyters or Elders 1 Tim 4. 14. as is above proved 3. Say that fourty Pagans not baptized were made by the travels of some private Christian man or woman visible Saints fourty unbaptized could not make unbaptized Pagâ—… their Rulers and Pastors as they could make some of their members their Civil Magistrates 4. That Corporation doeâ— he get and create their Rulers and their Rulers who are posteriour to them did not beget them and make them free Citizenâ— But officers â—â—cording to the fixed Rule of the Gospel now when Apostles cease to be are the onely fathers who baget visible professor Mr. H. If the Church â—â—net a Church without officers then as often as the officers die the Church diâ—… also 2. When the Church for gross heresias rejecteth the officers the Church must destroy her self while she laboureth her own preservation Doth a Corporation when they put out a wicked Magistrate out of his place therefore destroy their own Liberties and nullifie their Corporation Such Arguments may seem â—nâ—ugh to cast a cause and yet Mr. R. by them can turn all aside Ans. It s unfit that a man should so reflect upon his Brethren when there is so little strength 1. The Pastors being the husband and the Church the wife sure if the wife destroy the husband to save her self she destroys her own wife ship while she labours the preservation of her self as a woman and if the Church destroy all the heretical officers is there any
consociation of the thirty Churches about then the thirty Churches combined in particular By our Saviours rule Matth. 18. saith Mr. H. the offender is privately First to be rebuked Secondly then before two Thirdly before the Church nearest the Congregation The classical principles admit not this 2. Suppose the man in his private fault continue obstinate this obstinacy is re◠propria proper to the Congregation why may not the Congregation without the Presbytery then oast him out for this pertinacy was made known only to the Congregation or Church Object But the neighbouring Churches must avoid his company upon knowledge given Answ. So must the Churches of another Presbytery or Classis or of another Province and therefore there is no more need the one should have a hand in the censure then the other Ans. 1. The congregation in private scandals by our principles which Mr. H. it seems knows not doth admonish and the offended person is to admonish according to the order of Christ Matth. 18. 2. Mr. H. taketh for granted that the place Matth. 18. is a Rule for removing onely private scandals 2. And that by the word Church Matth. 18. is meant onely his own Independent congregation 3. That Christ Matth. 18 shews of no removing of scandals between two visible Saints dwelling in one Christian family who by the principles of Mr. H. may by their own free choise be members of divers congregations a strange dream 4. He supposes it must be onely one single man that trespasseth against a brother but if ten or many sister-Churches transgress against sister-Churches Learned Whitaker Calvin Beza Pareus all Protestant Divines all Fathers all learned Doctors Papists Lutherans Doctors Councels all the Martyrs who by the Text Matth. 18. appeal to a General Councel did but abuse the Text in applying it to Synods whereas Tell the Church is now found to be onely the single congregation whereas the contrary is sure There is a figure 1. In thy brother for he means many brethren within or without the congregation 2. By trespassing by a Sydecdoche he means all scandals else we were not to complain of publicke scandals to the Church 3. By the Church he means all Churches respectively as those of Antioch in case of scandalous doctrine Tell a Synod Acts 15. 2. The obstinacy is not proper to that congregation if publick the offence of it stumbles the neighbouring Churches But 4. It will not follow that All of another Province should have hand in the censure as well as the Presbytery because those of another Province may hear of it for that is non causa pro causa for they are not in danger to be leavened so as those that are nearer and the wisdome of Christ hath accommodated Discipline to our bodily craziness For as when there be twelve thousand members at Ierusalem he will not have them all to meet at one house since they have twelve Apostles to teach them but in sundry congregations Acts 2. 46. 5 42. not can they partake of the seals in one house nor can they personally watch over one another as the new Church-covenant teacheth So neither will he have Elders 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in cities where many thousands were baptized purging their own body and it s not to be supposed that actual government for ordinary scandals should be by the personal presence of the Elders of remote Presbyteries and Provinces far less of the Elders of the whole Catholick visible Church For Nature Reason and the practise of the Apostles would say Except the scandal be more than ordinary wide and spreading only the Churches nearest to be edified or stumbled should have hand in healing and censuring though the whole Catholick and visible Church have also here some influence to wit tacit and virtual in that common Rule of Discipline which regulates the whole Catholick body as is said hereafter Mr. H. The second difference assigned by Mr. R. is that the Presbytery takes care rather of the regulating of the acts of governing in all these Churches than the governed Churches Mr. H. They express their care in judicial acts and that directly and immediately upon scandals and scandalous persons of any congregation Ans. Mr. H. should have added my words to the full that the Reader might have seen my minde What I speak comparatively Mr. H. would not hold it out to the Reader as if I meant it absolutely For 1. The Presbytery is glad that lesser evils be healed by Rebukes within the congregation 2. I deny not but the Presbytery doth and must directly and immediately judge greater scandals especially between congregation and congregation between Elder and Elder and Rulers and Ruled of the same congregation but ever under the former Reduplication as they are an associate body Mr. H. 3 Differ The Presbyterian Elders are Elders to all the Churches as the Elders themselves are in collegio Presbyteriali and properly as they are in Court Ans. But I assume saith Mr. H. the Elders there are proper Pastors of their own particular congregations therefore they must if at all be so here A Pastor in an Island cannot teach admonish excommunicate but in coetu congregationali or severed from his Church yet this hinders not but in these regards he is a proper Pastor to them Ans. Mr. H. yet halfs my words and sets down one member of a distinction and leaves out the other They are Elders to the Churches in the Presbyterial Judicature but separatim out of that say I pag. 326. they do not watch in such a way for all the souls of the Presbyterian several congregations as they do for the single congregations of which they are fixed Pastors And this is enough to make different relations pastoral which is my intent between the Elders in order to their own congregations and to the associated congregations as the Elders of Antioch are Elders judging in the Synod Acts 15. one way to Ierusalem and other to Antioch where they have their proper fixed charge to teach and rule and I shall not stand to yield that they act as Elders and by the same office of Eldership in the Presbyterial and in the congregational Judicature but an accidental difference there is 2. It s most unfound that Mr H. saith That a Pastor cannot teach admonish excommunicate but in a congregational meeting This is first to make him a congregational Pope or Prophet as the Papists do the Pope onely in Cathedra in the pulpit or before the congregation 2. All the dayes of the week except in the actual congregational Assembly he is a private man by this reason But the Word shall warrant the pastor as a pastor to visit to warn from house to house Col. 1. 28. Acts 20 20. 2. 46. 5. 42. in season and out of season 2 Tim. 4. 2. 2. 25. for he does not these as a private gifted man 3. By this reason a pastor is so a pastor a
husband a watchman to the flock actually assembled onely but not a pastor to give an account of this or that man or womans soul to God in the flock then if this or that man perish through the fault of the Elder who gave not warning Mr. H. hath taught the Minister a good excuse I cannot be charged as an unfaithful watchman with the blood of this single man who is lost Mr. H. saith I am onely a Pastor in relation to the flock assembled Church-ways but I am not a Pastor nor Watchman to one single man But ah this distinction shall not save the man from the charge of blood Ezek. 3. 18 19 20 21. 33. 13 14 15. 34. 4 5. Heb. 13. 17. I would not have expected from such a mans pen such a Tenet 4. Differ The Presbytery hath a Church relation to all these thirty congregations not takin distributively but collectively as they are united in one Church classical and in one Government Ans. If the Presbytery put forth acts of Iurisdiction upon these Churches distributively as they are severed then they have a Church-relation to them distrâ—butively But they admonish and censure several persons of several Churches Ans. 1. So do the Synod Elders at Ierusalem Acts 15. put forth authoritative pastoral acts by the grant of Mr. Cotton upon the several Churches distributively taken yet are they not the proper pastors of these Churches and Commissioners of Parliament upon persons of a single city but as they have failed not against the Laws of that city but against the general Laws of the whole Nation and Parliament But it follows not that these Commissioners are Aldermen or fixed Judges of that city and so Mr. H. his consequence is weak Mr. H. These Presbyterial Elders must exercise jurisdiction over congregational Elders which is conceived by Mr. R. to be absurd Ans. Pastors with majority of official Jurisdiction over pastors of another lower species as Bishops above pastors I still look upon as absurd But that Elders in a Synod exercise Jurisdiction over Elders of a congregation that are the same in nature and degree with them is no more absurd than for an Eldership of a congregation to exercise Jurisdiction over some two or three scandalous Elders of their own number which Mr. H. will not call Episcopacy Mr. H. Mr. R. addes Elders of an Independent congregation are not Elders of their single congregations being separated from their Courts It seems a paradox for if separated from their Court their office remain then jurisdiction must remain Ans. It s not a seeming but a real paradox my words are halfed I said They are not Elders separated from their court in the notion these are my words omitted by Mr. H. of the relation of a Church-jurisdiction for they can exercise no jurisdiction neither excommunicate nor relax from excommunication being not in Court except they be prelates But Mr. H. addes a real absurd paradox that they cannot exercise pastoral acts of teaching but in the Church-assembly which refuted before Mr. H. 5 Differ Congregational Elders have power of order and power of jurisdiction without the Court but they have not power of jurisdiction but in the Court Elders have a power of jurisdiction as watchmen but a power of Church-jurisdiction they have not but in the Court. Ans. I never heard that their entring into the assembly should adde a new power 2. Nor did Mr. R. say their entring and sitting in the Court addeth a new official power they had the official power actu primo before but they can no more put it forth in acts being separated from the Court than a pastor might excommunicate his alone in his private chamber which were tyrannical and null Mr. H. The example of the great Sanhedrim toucheth not the cause or then destroyeth it Nor doth the example of Commissioners of Parliament for they get a new office to sit in Parliament but an Elder of a congregation by sitting in the Presbytery gets no new office Ans. It is a weak answer to say it helps not and not shew the cause but to lead the Reader implicitly for the great Sanhedrim ruled over all the Tribes and yet a Judge out of the Tribe of Dan though a member of the Sanhedrim did not rule over the Tribe of Benjamin but onely in the Sanhedrim and in some common cases The getting of a new office is neither up nor down the Commissioners of Parliament rule in that Court over all the Shires in the Land and by that Commission every Commissioner becomes not a Major of every City or a Judge in every Shire And by Mr. Cottons grant the Elders in a Synod exercise pastoral acts and lay on burthens Acts 15. upon the Churches and get no new office thereby But they do not for that become proper Elders and pastors over every single congregation in the bounds of the Synod Yet to Mr. H. this is a principle That if the Presbyterian Elders put forth pastoral acts upon all the congregations then must they be pastors to all the particular flocks for shepherd and flick are relatives Arg. 2. 101. But the Conclusion is absurd This is no less against Mr. Cotton than against Mr. R. and against himself who admits strangers to the Lords Supper c. Mr. H. It is obvious to every man that the Elder of the congregation hath the nature of an Elder in general and so can and doth put forth general actions that are common to other Elder Where the act is the object must be in its proportion and all this he doth without the Classis in his particular station for the species determines the act of the genus as Socrates confines the acts of the humans Nature to himself and it s known the Classis meddles with the particular offences that are as special as any Elder in an Island doth meddle within his owne place Ans. 1. It s obvious to all men That Mr. H. speaks new Logick obvious to the understanding of no man I doubt to his own For the Elders of a congregation because independent and subordinate and countable to none on earth but to Iesus Christ as Papists say of their wooden Head the Antichrist determine within themselves Suppose they he but some twelve of the twelve thousands at Ierusalem if these be once a formal Covenant-wise married Church of people and officers they do determine of the Doctrine of Circumcision of the Doctrine of Balaam Acts 15. Rev. 2. 14. for Pergamos is to them an independent flock and of Arrianism and of Doctrines and Scandals that concern many hundred Churches about and whether they determine right or wrong it s against the liberty and power Christ hath given to that Redeemed Body of ten and twelve to tell the Churches Oh! they must not part with their Soveraignty so or if they consult it s but of courtesie for single Pergamus is rebuked say our Brethren for not using their Church-power
in a Doctrine that concerned thousands as well as them 2. What a mystery of Logick this may be who is so happy as to divine Every particular Elder can and doth put forth general actions that are common to other Elders Why The species determines the act of the genus The Reason contradicts the Conclusion which it is brought to prove For if Socrates confines the acts of Humane Nature to himself they leave off now to be general actions and by being contracted to the species his species is Socrates a single person they are now most special actions Mr. H. takes our meaning to be That the members of Synods and of the Presbytery determine of the Ideal general abstracted Nature of Men of Doctrines of Actions in communi that needs not saith he for the congregational Elders put forth general actions but confined and contracted to Socrates So doth the Classis the National yea the Oecumenick and General Assembly put forth acts determinations both of general Doctrines and condemn them also as confined and contracted to Socrates to Balaam to Iezabel to the Nicolaitans and to the single men of that impure Sect. And Acts 15. 24. the Synod condemns some certain particular individual men 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Some men from us have troubled you and said Ye must be circumcised Now the abstracted nature of men disputed not and made not the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the rent as v. 6 7. but some single men And this comes from another wilde notion of Logick that Mr. H. teacheth That the Catholick visible Church is the Genus and under it is this or that Independent Church Of this hereafter Sâ— the Church of Boston is the Catholick integral Church for Gâ—nus praedicatur de specie Mr. H. It s as undeniable there be general acts in preaching and watching which are common to all congregations which the Presbytery neither do nor can dispense conscienciously because the Pastor cannot attend them It will not suffice to say He was Pastor to the Catholick Church before for then before the combination he had as good power to exercise jurisdiction as any of them This is against Mr. R. who grants that one Church hath not power over another An. 1. It s undeniable That the Apostles who were Pastors of the Catholick Church could not attend acts of Teaching and Ruling in all the single Congregations for that is physically impossible But Mr. H. saith It s morally impossible and unlawful for a pastor to put forth a pastoral act in any Congregation but that to which he is married more than a man can perform marriage-duties to any but to his own wife which is shameful Doctrine 2. Mr. H. frequently deviseth Objections of straw and then fires them at his pleasure He knows Mr. R. denies that to be a pastor of the Catholick Church gives so right to the Apostle to preach and feed in Bithynia but there was need of a call of God going before as is clear Acts 16. and so must pastors of the Catholick Church now have a call from Presbytery and Congregation before they can lawfelly put forth in act their general pastorship which they have to the Catholick Church Nor is this against the Church not having power over a sister-Church because a pastor of one Congregation hath power joyntly in a Synod to exercise pastoral acts Synodical over many Churches CHAP. IV. The following Arguments of Mr. H. against a Presbyterian Church are removed That the classical Elders separate Ruling from Teaching are Prelates non-Residents and Pluralists and what not by Mr. H. his way MR. H. That course which severs which God hath joined together is unlawful But the classical combination doth this Ruling and teaching belong to the office of a Pastor and Teacher they have the prwer of the Keys and there cannot be full binding and loosing but by ruling and tâ—aching Act. 20. 28. 1 Pet. 5. 1 2. 2 Both binding and loosing are required as necâ—ssary to Christs end the gathering and perfecting of the Saints Eph. 4. 12. Ans. The assumption may import that the Presbytery must be Rulers and by office no Teachers as the Prelate is who by majority of power is the rule of the Pastors and they his Deputies the so severing of teaching and ruling in the subject cannot be charged upon us but that the severing of them in regard of the object is no sort of dividing of those which God hath joined is clear because the Pastors teach some and rule in common others associate And Mr. H. hath not proved the assumption For 1. Elders in Synods dogmatically and authoritatively teach as Mr. H. teacheth par 4. pag. 5. conclus 3. therefore Mr. H. himself separateth teaching and ruling And Mr. Cotton saith more 2. The people without officers may excommunicate all their officers and so bind them and receive them in again upon their repentance and so loose them as Mr. H. teacheth par 1 c. 9. pag. 92 93. and yet the people cannot teach these officers as their Pastors Is not here an irregular separating of ruling from teaching 3. Such of the flock as are from their youth kept under by the terrors of God Ps. 88. Godly Elders who are not to be rebuked but intreated as fathers 1 Tim. 5. 1. need not juridical Church-binding and loosing and yet need the preaching of the promises Then in regard of the act and object exercise of jurisdiction may be severed from teaching 4. Pastors can exercise no jurisdiction but only in the Court but Pastors not in Court may teach pastorally the whole flock 5. The Churches that meet in a Synod may exercise the power of non communion toward a Church which is a Church-governing for their edification if the Church obstinately maintain an heresie and yet the Churches so convened cannot pastorally teach this Church Let Mr. H. see if he be not as prelatical as Mr. R. If this be Prelacy I thought Mr. H. had been better versed in the doctrinâ— of Prelacy Mr. H. Grand-fathers and Fathers do bear a relation to the same Children divers ways So Mr. R. So then as a Grand-father saith Mr. H. cannot be both a Grand-father and a Father to the same Child neither can an Elder be both a proper Elder and a classical Elder to the same Congregation Answ. One man cannot be both a Grand-father and a Father to the same Child True nor is one man a proper Elder to his Congregation and a classical Elder to his own Congregation for he is formally a classical Elder not to his own but to all the associated Congregations 2. It is but a comparison and so admits of halting a Grand-father is a Grand-father to his childrens children but a Father to his nearest children so the same man is a classical Elder to all the associated Churches and a proper and providentially fixed Elder to his own flock as one was both a Priest to judge between blood and
31 32. 7. Though there be many Churches in Galatia Gal. 1. 2. yet must they be one lump who have power to judge and censure false teachers Gal. 5. 9. and there is a Church restoring made by spiritual officers Gal 6. 1. otherwise they might have replied We Galatians have no power in one body to cut off a troubler who infecteth the whole lump every single congregation is to see to that and the troubler is without our Churches save to one only single Independent power say our Brethren 8. It s not possible that the Churches can send their common Messengers whom they choose 2 Cor. 8. 19 23. except the Churches convene men women and children or then convent in Elders of many Churches or the Apostles must have gone from Church to Church to beg suffrages and votes which sort of Election is never heard of in any Writer sacred or profanâ— As to the first who can believe that men and women and children capable to hear and be baptized also which is the onely Church of Believers owned by our Brethren the externally covenanted and redeemed did send the Apostles to Ierusalem or received the Apostles and did welcome them or salute the Saints as Act. 16 3 4. Rom. 16. 16 Act. 15. 22 27 28 therefore need for it the second must be said That the Churches in their Heads Rulers Officers sent them which is a very Presbyterial Church 9. If divers Churches meet for laying on burthens by power of the Keys as M. Cot. saith exercising acts of Church-government then there is a Presbyterial Church governing without and above a single congregation by pastors neither chosen to be fixed and constant teachers nor that can possibly teach many congregations But the former Mr. Cotton and our Brethren teach Obj. This is no Church-power for a Synod is not a Church bâ—cause it is no Church-jurisdiction Ans. 1. The Antecedent is false 2. The Consequence is naught A number of private Christians wanting all official Authority so might lay on Synodical burthens binding materially if this be no Church-power 2. They are called the Decrees of Apostles and Elders Act. 16. 4. written and concluded Act. 21. 25. Saith Iames Act. 15. 22. It seemed good to the Apostles and Elders with the whole Church to send chosen men Now whether Church note the Apostles Elders and Brethren or the multitude of believers onely or the Church of Ierusalem made up of both the Decrees must come from Church-power governing teaching uniting and removing a Schism Though it were no power of jurisdiction yet here is a Church-power above a Church except it be said that so many pastors of the same or of divers Churches or so many private Christians commissionated from no Churches made the Synod Act. 15. and Synodically said It seemed good to the holy Ghost and to us But this shall no more import the promised presence of Christ to such as are convened in his Name Mat. 18. 19. 20. 28. 19 20 21. Ioh. 2. 21. than if so many private Christians had been convened and so may such of a sister-Church remove all Schisms and a Synod shall be nothing at all 10. If Christ build the power of binding loosing gaining upon brotherhood Mat. 18. If thy brother offend c. then as far as brotherhood goes if I possibly can converse with him and may be offended or edified by him so far must the power of jurisdiction be extended because these two The gaining of a brother 2. The safety of the Church by edifying of others and removing of scandals are intended by Christ. Mat. 18. but brotherhood is without the bounds of the congregation whereof I am a member Rom. 16 14. Salute the brethren that are with them 1 Cor. 16. 20. All the brethâ—en salute you These were brethren of other congregations 2. If there be no Church-tye upon me to gain any but those of mine own congregation then 1. There may be communion of Saints onely within the same congregation and no communion of Churches what Scripture is for this 3. It must be the will of Christ that we bestow no Church-rebukes upon other Churches which must be contrary 1. To Christian love to save others 2. Contrary to zeal for the Lords glory 3. Spreading the Gospel 4. Desire to remove Scandals 5. To be made all things to all men to save some 6. To serve one another in love 7. To promote the common interest of the whole catholick Body of Christ. 8. It s against our praying for the Church and that all Israel may be saved 9. Against the Doctrine of our Brethren who say That Churches ought to rebuke exhort warn comfort Churches 10. It s against the communion of Spiritual priviledges of one Head and Saviour one Covenant one God one Faith c. It s not enough to say We are the same Body entitativè for that entitative Body without this congregation is either visible or invisible if visible then members of divers congregations are of the same visible body and to say that other congregations are not as visible as that whereof I am a member to me and others about is to deny twice three to be six for one Christ one Faith one Profession the same seals are as visible in a Church within few paces to me as in the Church whereof I am a member to say it is invisible is to speak against sense CHAP. VII Of a Church in an Island MR. H. If a Church in an Island may dispense all Censures and all Ordinances then every congregation may But such a Church may For 1. it is a City and a little Kingdome of Christ. 2. The essential notes of a visible Church agree to it Ans. The consequence from a broken arm to a whole arm is not good or because Iames the day before he be beheaded in strong prison cannot discharge all Christian duties to brethren and to neighbour Churches therefore he is not actu primo a Christian. A Church in an Island is not actually associated with other Churches and so cannot in the full extent dispense all Ordinances of rebuking comforting neighbour Churches and of withdrawing communion from them because of the want of the object not because of defect in the subject I might retort the argument Therefore associated congregations cannot dispense all Ordinances of rebuking comforting c. But the latter is absurd 2. An homogeneal Church in an Island void of pastors and men able to teach cannot administer the Seals by Mr. H. his way 3. A Church so divided and not associated is imperfect and may remove scandals within it self but it follows not Ergo every associated Church may remove scandals within it self and without it self also independently and without any subordination to united powers of the associated congregations it follows not the notes of a visible Church agree to such a Church imperfectly except it be said That the same Church from its own intrinsecal and
of Mr. H. Let his defenders see to it 4. A congregation may command me a visible professor so and so dwelling near the Fountain to confess Christ before men and so to be a member Obj. They cannot excommunicatâ— a râ—fusâ—r to be a member for a non-member cannot be câ—st out Ans. It s all along a false principle that a man is no member until 1â— A Court congregational judicially judge of his Regeneration 2. Until he actually consent and give up his Name as a married party 3. and that to one onely congregation all are rotten and headless principles What way pastors may be hindred in exercising pastoral acts or acts of ruling is clear he may not publickly preach in a set time of his own appointing without the Churches consent by whom he is to be regulated which is no hindring of the exercise of his power as Mr. H. imagines but a regulating thereof Mr. H. The addition of any thing besides an office addes no power of right or jurisdiction Ans. True but it extends the right of the Wilderness-church to so many members added to 50 Infants to be baptized when born to ten Churches about when the Lord shall adde them not to rule over them but to rule joyntly over the whole combination with them for promoting the Gospel in all Mr. H. The ground of the combination is of no force to wit the preventing or curing the taint and polluâ—ion that a scandal will bring by the nearness of combination Therefore the combination is of no force the scandal falls out in another Classis 2. In the outside of the combination nearer the congregation of another Classis than their own 3. It goes far to another Province and Nation The righteous proceeding according to the Rule of Christ is a cure appointed to remove it whereever it falls out farre or near Ans. By combination we do not mean onely a combination of a Presbytery but also of a Province Nation yea of all the sound Christian Churches on earth as the Synod of Dort 1618. condemned the unsound Doctrine of the Arminians by writing to all those either within or without the Church and nearness of habitation is not the adequate ground though a ground it is 1 Cor. 5. 1. It is reported there is among you fornication c. of the danger of pollution 2. The reason Because the scandal may fall out without the combination of the Classis is no reason why the combination is of no force for the combination is upon other grounds also to wit the establishing in the faith the increase of the Churches Acts 16. 4 5. the gathering of the Saints and perfecting of the body Eph. 4. 12. edifying the body beside the preventing and curing of scandals 3. It s to beg the question to say that the proceeding of the Independent congregation of Antioch say it were so is a cure for the scandalous Doctrine of salvation by circumcision preached at Ierusalem Acts 15. 1. troubling the Churches of Syria and Cilicia Acts 15. 23 24. Yea this is for Mr. H. to say the holy Ghost used not a sufficient cure As for that to say scandals should not be prevented and cured by the combination because they may fall out without the combination his meaning is without the combination classical or congregation it makes Christs remedy nonsufficient that either there can be no Provincial no National scandals contrary to experience or then Christ hath provided no Church-remedy to remove them but onely the power of a single congregation which hath no power at all but over themselves Hence this rotten principle That Church feeding is due to none under the New Testament but to persons hampered into the Pinfold and Judaical Prison of one single congregation against which 1. it licenseth the most godly Saints on earth residing at Corinth if they be no Church-members of that Church 1. To deny Christ and Church-ordinances before men when Christs sends out his servants as Mat. 22 3 4. Luke 14. 16 17. for they may say the Lord calls none to Church-ordinances at Corinth but members of that Church and such are we not 2. It licenseth them to despise Church-prophecying Church-praying Church-praising 3. To disobey a Gospel-command though they have visibly to the conscience of all tried themselves Do this in remembrance of me whereas Christ limits his invitation to all who can discern his body Mr. H. must say its adultery for the members of the Church of Philippi to remember the Lords death in the Church of Corinth 4. That Doctrine is not of God which debars the birds sheep and children of God sojourning in what fields or land soever as it were from feeding as his Eagles upon the carrion in every lawful Church-way or from watching at the gates and waiting at the posts of the doors of Wisdom except in that onely congregation to which they are sworn by marriage oath or from seeding at any table of the Lord or dwelling all the dayes of their life in the New Testament-sanctuary to behold the beauty of the Lord Prov. 8. 35. 36. Psal. 23. 6. 27 4. except in one single congregation but such is the Doctrine of an independent congregation the onely visible Church of the New Testament as they say 5. That Doctrine is not of God which confines Church-comforts Church-praying c. to one single congregation and puts us in a worse if not in as hard a condition as the Jews whose publick Temple-service was tied to the Temple whereas in the New Testament 1 Tim. 3. 8. as in the Old also in some sense we may pray in every place lifting up holy hands without wrath and doubting But we may not pray praise and heat Church-wayes in any place by this way but in our own congregation although the Lord promise to create on Zions assemblits a cloud and a smoke by day and the shining of a fleming fire by night Isa. 4. 5. and that upon all the Lords Mount 6. The sojourner is left to the Eunuchs complaint I am a dry tree there is glory in this assembly but I have neither part nor portion in it Nor will it establish the heart to say I see the beauty of the Lord in my own congregation for these under the New Testament can finde no solace and comfort from that Psal. 106. Remember me O Lord with the favour that thou bearest to thy people Nor can it be the comfort of an Institution which is something more to a believing sojourner and David banished to want then we conceiveâ— when Davids spirit is overwhelmed when he wants the joy presence and comâ—ort of instituted holy dayes Psal. 42. 4. and of Tabernacle-consolation with the covenanted people of God which made the sparrows more happy than he was Psal. 84. 1 2 3 4. and yet he had soul-refreshments in lively desires Psal. 63. 1 2. For the godly sojourner is not of that covenanted visible body with the Church to which
saith he but can there be no allusion to a Iudicature except the one to which allusion is made and that of which the present speech is have the like power Then cannot the Scripture allude to earthly Princes who place their greatest Courtier upon the right hand because earthly Princes have not the like power with the Father of Jesus Christ. This destroys all allusions which abound in the Scripture as Paul Rom. 10. 18. alludes to the Sun Malachi compareth Gospel-worship to the burning of Incense chap. 1. shall it then follow that the one is of the nature of the other That allusions bring little light is said without ground for they being grounded upon Metaphors often which bring light must bring much light 3. That Synagogues had no power to excommunicate seems to bring darkness and not light The contrary is Iob. 9. and 16. Though they abused that Ordinance Mr. H. It s in vain to send the plaintiff to a general Councel he might be dead before he be relieved and the Councel be gathered Ans. We send no man by a loup to a General Councel but the grieved man may appeal to the nearest Judicature and Mr. H. will have him to loup to a General Councel at the first being accused of a scandal which declares that he would elude all the Government of Christ between him and that Judicature 2. We do not maintain any Appeals whatsoever but onely righteous Appeals Illud tantum pâ—ssumus quod jure possumus 3. So may the plaintiff be buried before a Synod by way of consultation may be had the wayes of Discipline aâ— all Christs ordinary wayes in the Gospel may possibly never take effect in those to whom the word is a savour of death unto death but that doth not nullifie an Ordinance of God Mr. H. Our Saviour Mat. 18. points at a standing Tribunal of such a Church as is at hand whereof both parties were members Ans. It s a perverting of the words of Christ Mat. 18. that no man trespassing whom I must endevour to gain can be my brother but he who is a member of the same congregation of which I am a member This is to renounce and quit all brotherly communion with all Churches on earth but onely that single congregation of which I am a member when not one brother but twenty or many Churches of brethren without the congregation as false brethren of Iudea trespass against Antioch by perverse doctrine Act. 15. there is not a Judicature aâ— hand hath Christ provided to tell no Church and left no remedy to remove the greatest of scandals Mr. H. How could a Church in an Island or the first Church at Jerusalem Act. 1. 23. exercise discipline upon an offender upon this ground Ans. Why not since the purpose of Christ is That every Church even the less of one hundred and twenty Acts 1. and the greater of ten thousands Act. 2. 4. 6. should respectively purge themselves and when association of many Churches about shall be they should also purge those without the congregation Scandals fall out where many meetings are and one onely Presbytery over them as Mr. H. granteth to which of the meetings shall the plaintiffs complain The offenders are of divers Meetings or Churches that are not at hand Mr. H. The Sanhedrim is a mixt Iudicature partly of Ecclesiastical partly of Civil Iudges Deut. 17. 12. 2 Chron. 19. Ergo allusion cannot be made thereunto Ans. The Consequence is naught 2. Mr. H. with the Prelates confound the Judicatures but they are clearly distinguished while one is appointed for the matters of the King another for the matters of the Lord 2 Chron. 19. 11. So are they distinguished The Priest or the Judge not the Priest and the Judge Diut 17. 12. Men might sinsully confound them but sin is no institution of the Lord. Mr. H. Arg. 2. The Church of believers is that which meets for prophecying and for praying but this Mat. 18. especially for binding and loosing and censures Mr. H. The Church of believers is assembled mainly for prophecying and praying yet not onely but for censures also the Word being ended Ans. That is indeed in question That men women and children meet ordinarily every Lords-day for to act in all Ordinances and after Sermon to leed witness binde and loose and that under the notion of believers for neither here nor in Scripture is there warrant for this Mr. H. Arg. 3. The Church Mat. 18. is such a superiour and judicial Seat as is to be obeyed in the Lord under the pain of excommunication But a multitude of believers are not such a seat So Mr. R. Mr H. The Major is the question and the Conclusion is to be proved whether a particular congregation be the highest Tribunal or the classical Church and Mr. R. takes one part of the Conclusion to prâ—ve the other If the congregation be not highest then the classical must be The Minor should have been proved not nakedly propounded Ans. I propound a Syllogism and for answer to the minor Mr. H. transforms my Argument which I dreamed not of and sayes I take one part of the conclusion to prove the other If the congregation be not highest then the classis is But Sir that is not one part of the conclusion to prove another but since you bring it it s a lawful Syllogism Either the congregation or the classis is the highest Tribunal But not the congregation Yet this is Mr. H. Arg. not mine The Church Mat. 18. is such a superiour seat as is to be obeyed as being over us in the Lord c. But no Scripture no Divine in the world saith That the multitude of believers I use not there the term Congregational Church at all is such a superiour Seat that is over the Guides and whom the Guides do obey in the Lord or disobey under the pain of Excommunication This minor of mine is not nakedly propounded The Scripture saith the officers are over the multitude of believers in the Lord 1 Thess. 5. 12 14. 1 Tim. 5. 17. Heb. 13. 17. But the contrary is never said they do not awake that say this is to take one part of a conclusion to prove the other for its a conclusion proved by a medium that is no part neither subject nor attribute of the conclusion Mr. H. Arg. 4. of Mr. R. Whatever the Church may excommunicate every member thereof convened with the Church may inflict all inferiour censures But all the members cannot inflict lesser punishment for neither women nor aged children nor the unofficed brethren can rebuks exhort or by the Word openly convince the officers Ans. The consequence is feeble as appears from the nature of delegated power which is committed by Christ to persons capable thereof which women for their sex children for the want of the exercise of understanding cannot do People have power to choose officers therefore women have power to put in
their voices The Body of a Corporation may put out a Major upon desert therefore women and children may do it No the wise God hath included the votes of women in the male Ans. Nay but Mr. H. shall not so elude the Argument Whatsoever the judging binding and loosing Church of believers may do that every member of the joynt community may do in collegio if the Keyes be given to them as Mr H. and Mr. Cotton say as actual believers giving Peters confession Mat. 16. and therefore Mr. H. too suddenly sayes The consiquence he would have said the major for its a lawful Syllogism is feeble for women children sons come to agâ— servants which he left out are formal and essential parts of the believing Church to whom the Keyes are given as to the first subject If the Keyes be not given to them as confessing and professing believers because not to women sons servants then not to all confessing and professing believers as such then not to all blessed as taught by a teacher above flesh and blood as Peter was Mat. 16. This shall cross the Principles of our Brethren the Truth and Scripture cannot but cross them nor can it be denied but women sons come to age servaÌ„ts are no less members of that Church than the multitude of male-believers for they confess Christ as Peter are blessed and built on the Rock as well as Peter and are no less conceived in charity to have some spiâ—…l good in them as Mr. H. dictates cap. 2. par 1 15 16. and these must be visible Saints to whom Mr. H. his definition of visible Saints agrees and therefore our brethren must either quit the principles they follow or then a multitude of believers of visible Saints must be larger than the actual binding and loosing Church Mat. 18. and against their will this Tell the Church must be understood of Tell some believers onely if they will The Officers but Tell not women nor sons nor servants for they are no part of the binding and loosing Church and If he hear not the Church that is as the Hebraism there If he obey not the Church if he obey not some believers Men and Heads of Families not women servants â—ons Let him be to thee as a publican c. 2. So woman are either not capable of believing and visible Saintship which none can say or they are not capable of a power of binding and loosing and so a power capable of binding and loosing is not given to the multitude of believers as the Church Mat. 18. 3. Nor are women sons servants debarred from voicing in Election because it is a Church-power for it is no power of jurisdiction For 1. Their tacit voices and consents are not excluded because they must try the spirits not upon trust fide implicitâ believe every teacher more than men or believe as the Church believes more than their husbands nor must they take Doctrines as truth upon their husbands word not are women so excluded from speaking in the Church as they may upon no occasion confess their faith 2. Profess vocally repentance 3. Depose as Witnesses 4. Accuse the guilty before the binding Church 4. Nor may a Corporation cast out a Major by an authoritative power such as binding and loosing is Mat. 18. 5. We seek a warrant why the votes of women in choosing their Pastors must more be included in the votes of the male than their being essential parts of the redeemed Church is included in the males or their confessing publickly that Jesus is the Christ as many women Martyrs and sons and servants have gloriously done and yet their confession of Christ to the death must be personal and not included in the confession of husband or parents as Mat. 10. 32. Mr. H. Arg. 5. of Mr. R. Those to whom the essence and definition of a Ministerial Church having power to excommunicate doth belong those and those onely are understood under the Name of the Church Mat. 18. But the essence and definition of a Ministerial Church having power to excommunicate doth not necessarily belong to a great company of believers assembled Church-wise Ans. Both propositions may be denied Neither a Church without officers nor as having them is here onely understood but the second sense is here firstly attended For both people and Elders have their power parts and places in a right order and manner when it s said a Ministerial Church is here understood Ministerial notes either Ministers without the body exclusively and that is false or Ministers with the body inclusively Now a Ministerial Church in the fairest sense aims at both In the first sense the proposition is false in the second it doth not conclude to whom the essence and definition of a Ministerial i. e. of a Church of Ministers without the body having power to excommunicate doth necessarily belong These and these onely are here understood This Mr. R. l. 1. p. 226. refuâ—eth Ans. Well then Mr. H. denies the conclusion then both a Ministerial Church and a Church of Redeemed meeting to partake of Ordinances have their part here Ergo women have their part here 2. If a Church in both sâ—nses be here understood when all the Officers turn grievous Wolves Socinians Papists Familists such as say they are Apostles and do liâ— then 1. Must the people that are stumbled complain to themselves This is not just to make the complaining party saith M. H. judge What if they unjustly complain and say their officers are Presbyterial and Prelatical and are Legal Preachers and preach neither Christ nor Free-grace then hath Christ ordained them whose lips preserve not knowledge to be the onely judging and first Church which hath power to excommunicate to be the first and onely Judges-of sound Doctrine and Heresie in officers And suppose the Church of people and officers be here firstly understood we cannot complain of the Familist people of which there were too many in Nâ—E to the Elders for the same reason 2. Nor is it true that people and Elders the people must in judging be first by Mr. H. have their power parts and place in this work for all Elders and people have equally a decisive voice except women and children and seâ—vants and by what reason they want votes a reason 〈◊〉 yet is not heard of 3. There is no reason that binding and loosing may be transacted by onely a power of judgement in people for then a power of office is accidental to binding and loosing how then can a society with both power of judgement and of office be understood here firstly as Mr. H. saith Therefore I ask a reason why officers who are meer adjuncts such aâ— come in at the by and as latter in nature power and operation to the visible Church should have any hand in binding and loosing since all officers are made and unmade ordained and cast out by the male-Church by this way 4. Nor can the
may excommunicate all officers and whereas he so much contends for the signification of the word Church Let him answer what is meant there 1 Cor. 11. 16. If any man seem to be contentious we have no such custom neither the Churches of Christ. If the meaning be that the congregations meeting in the same place contend not among themselves what if they so should do who should right them by our Brethrens way and if that be the Church that meets in one place onely when shall the Church Catholick which Christ loved and gave himself for meet not until the day of Judgement and did the Brethren testifie of the charity of Gaius 2 Ioh. 16 before the Church was that in the convened together congregation or was it not before the men of the Church And 1 Cor. 11. When ye 〈◊〉 together to the Church Was not this to the meeting of men and women except women be debarred from the Lords Supper And when Saul made havock of the Church he must persecute only the binding and loosing Church but the Scripture saith he persecuted both men and women Act. 8. 3. 9. 2. Mr. H. Arg 11. The Church which the Plaintiff must tell is to admonish publickly the offender But this is the Church of Elders 1. Thes 5. 12. 13. 1 Tim. 5. 20. Luk. 10. 16. for they onely are to receive publick complaints Tit. 1. 13. 1 Tim. 5. 19. 2 Tim. 4. 2. Ans. Complaints are to be given to the Elders that they may prepare them for the congregation and lend the action Tâ—â—â—efore the incestuous Corinthian 〈◊〉 said to be râ—… of many and so judged of many not by the judgement only of discration for so they might judge these that were without but legally Ans. Mr. H. answers not one word of Scripture for telling the complaints to the Elders Christ saith Tell the Church that is tell all the visible Saints say our Brethren 2. That the incestuous Corinthian was rebuked legally of many that is of the Elders and Brethren or Male-Church only that is said not proved If we speak of judging by the judgement of discretion he was rebuked of Elders Brethren Women aged Children Servants for it concerned them in conscience to have knowledge of it and to yield to withdraw from him and to forgive him upon his repentance to joyn with him else their obedience must be blind 2. The minor is false 1. For though they judge Heathen with the judgement of discretion it follows not that therefore Brethren Women aged Children and Servants should not also judge an excommunicate person by the same judgement 2. The probation is faulty for I appeal to the conscience of our Brethren whether there be not sundry kinds of judgement of discretion and whether Church-members have not one kind of judgement of discretion toward the excommunicate man who is now under a medicinal Church-cure and another judgement of discretion toward them that are without and were never members Mr. H. to Mr. R. his twelfth Argument It hath received an 〈◊〉 out of a mistake because neither women alone nor children will make a Church nor have any publick power put into their hands for that purpose Ans. I never said in any Argument that women and children there alone maâ—e a Church nor spake I of womens ruling there But yet I say women children of years of discretion servaâ—â—s being the Lords freemen and professing the faith Arg. 1. The essential parts and largest part of the Congregationâ—… Church of Believers professing the faith of Peter builded upon the rock Mat. 18. â—â—â—ting every Lords day to partake of all the Ordinances and therefore if the Church Mat. 16. signifie such a Church 〈◊〉 â—hat which you say women and such children and servants must especially be understood as parts thereof under the name of the Church tell the Church and if so the Church to which we complain doth not bind and loose by your own grant 2. What ground is there in the Word that the Brethren alone because men should only be mooned by the name of the instituted Church in the Gospel or the 〈◊〉 Church of Believers partakers of all the ordinances excluding women and such children and servants since there 〈◊〉 neither made nor female bound nor free to be regarded in the condtion of believing visible Saints Gal. 3. 28. 〈◊〉 9. 14. 1 Cor. 7. 21 22. So is not this very like to the respect of persons condemned by the Apostle Iâ—… ch 2 3 4 5. when brethren because of their sex and heads of families must be the only Church of believers built upon the rock the Body of Christ the Kingdom of Christ the Redeemed of God partakers of all the precious ordinances and the only visible Church above all the officers women children servants 3. Nor hath such a Church of only few any such power put in their hand and so to say because it is said Tell the Church except Mr. H. prove them to be the governing Church above the Officers is to beg the question for Mr. Cotton and Mr. Burroughs say without officers the brethren can exercise nâ— jurisdiction no excommunication one of the highest acts of rude in the Church they have nothing without the officers saith Mr. Burroughs but brotherly admonition no jurisdiction And Mr. H. is to give a parallel place in old and new Testament if he hear not the Church id est the male-Church of Brethren let him be cast out Mr. H. Arg. 13. Not only the Church must convene to worship God in Spirit and Truth but that they bind and loose by the Pastoral Spirit of Paul and officers in their convention Ans. The Church met hath power to execute all acts of discipline as well as doctrine 2. The Church of Corinth is blamed because without the knowledge of Paul or his authority as they ought to have done they did not excommunicate the incestuous person only for their encouragement he expresseth his consent and the concurrence of his spirit Ans. That the Church of Believers without the pastoral spirit and authority of Paul or any other officer and excluding the tacit consent of women children of age and believing servants could exercise all acts of Discipline and Doctrine that is of pastoral preaching destroyes Mr. H. his principles for who can preach but sent Pastors Rom. 10. 14. not unofficed brethren And as to the point of Jurisdiction Mr. Cotton and Mr. Burroughs with me deny it and Mr. H. nakedly saith it That the Church of Corinth was rebuked for not excommunicating the man is true But 1. what means he by the Church rebuked 1. All that were rebuked must be the Church can Mr. H. deny but women children of years servants were rebuked as those who were puffed up and mourned not ver 1 2. 2. And as those who were a part and the largest part of the lump that is of the body of the people in danger to be leavened with that
to thee I will give the keys not to the 〈◊〉 Ergo Peter represents the people Believers only 〈◊〉 est the male-Church of the redeemed I would not buy such Logick for a Not for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is a collective and represents many for the Keys of the Kingdom noteth the Keys of jurisdiction of preaching the word c. Now see he gives the keys of knowledge principally and firstly to the people and secondarily to the Elders who labour not in the word and doctrine in so far as they concur to make the word effectual Nor can the Lord have given the Key of only ruling to the preaching Elders and therefore he speaks to Peter as representing two subjects 3. It is neither dagger nor weapon of blood that the Catholick visible Church of the first-born including rulers and ruled be the first subject of free redemption of all power of the Keyes in their saving fruit of all styles the Spouse Body Love c. the saving priviledges of special note that one promised in the covenant of grace the new heart remission of sins perseverance ruling in the visible kingdom by binding and loosing and that your particular congregation and society share of all these at the second hand And Mr. H. must be content that we look upon it as weak Divinity that Christ gave himselfe for the Catholick Church and bestows all upon her firstly and that this be the first natural recipient subject of all these as the element of fire not this or that fraction or fragment of that Element is the first adequate natural recipient subject of heat as is above explained Mr. H. Prop. 4. The power of the keys take it in the complete nature thereof is in the Church of Believers as in the first subject but in the manner and order of ruling that Christ appointed in the parts Ans. Mr. H. speaks not distinctly and should have told us what the power of the keys is in its complete nature and what in its incomplete and half nature it is 2. When he sayes the Church-congregational and the male-Church of Believers so consederate is the first subject of the Keys he saith an untruth like to this this particular fragment of the Element of fire is the first subject of heat And Sir what say you of the rest of the quarters of the Element of fire must they I pray you be the subjâ—ct of heat secondary and by way of participation So you may say London is the first subject of the power of government in England yea or Norwich now the first subject by you is omne and solum and so doth Mr. Cotton go before you it is like England would take it evil and judge that Norwich did not logically distinguish Our Brethren must be content no Congregation is any other but an integral part as D. Ames grants of the Catholick visible Church And Christs design of Love was that the whole by order of nature as the first subject should partake of all the speciall priviledges 1. Grace 2. Redemption 3. Covenant blessings c. power of binding loosing seals in their blessed fruit for the whole Nor can I say Amen to that of Mr. Cotton A particular Church or Congregation professing the faith taken indefinitly for any Church one as well as another is the first subject of all the Church Officers with all their spiritual gifts and power whether it be Paul or Apollo or Cephas all are yours speaking of the Church of Corinth 1 Cor 3. 22. Ans. 1. Mr. Cotton must prove that Paul there speaks of a particular Church that comes all together into one place as he speaks citing 1 Cor. 14. 23. and that formally as a single congregation meeting in one It were a most comfortless Doctrine to limit that soul delighting priviledge 1 Cor. 3. 21. all things are yours then Christ and Grace and Glory are yours And vers 23. ye are Christs onely to Saints as they are a Church-meeting in one place What is this but by the scope of that place you have right to Christ and Salvation and Covenant-promises as the first subject only under the reduplication of a congregation meeting in one place as an organized Church Ah! and shall not Christ and all things be theirs who are in no Church-state like that of Corinth but wander in deserts and in mountains and in dens and caveâ— of the Earth Heb. 11. 38 and have no certain dwelling house nor fixed Church congregational 1 Cor. 4. 11 2. What agrees to Believers as Christians and Believers to believing women aged children servants and to the scattered Saints Now in no such Church state as Mr. Cotton imagines the Corinthians to be in and to Iohn in the Isle of Pathmes and to the Apostles as believing Apostles that cannot agree to a congregation as the first subject which reciprocally and only receiveth this power But such is this Revel 21. 7. He that overcomes shall inherit all things all are yours death in the sweet fruit of it belongs to women and to Christians as Christians though in no congregational state Ergo women and the whole Catholick Church whether in such a Church-state or not must be the first subject of the Keyes And it is wretched Logick Paul saith all things are yours and ye are Christs to a congregation that meets in one place Ergo such a promise is made to a congregation as to the first subject and as to a congregation then may I infer the promise to eat of the Tree of Life to receive the hidden Manna and the â—…ning Star and to sit in a Throne with Christ is made to such as overcome in the congregation as our Brethren say of Ephesus of Pergamos of Thyatira c. Rev. 2. 3. therefore these promises are made to the Church of a congregation as to the first subject upon the same ground all the congregational Church must be the first subject and so the only subject of all priviledges of the congregational Church of Corinth of being justified sanctified Temples of the Holy Ghost redeemed and bought with a price c. And if so these priviledges must agree to the congregation firstly and to all other for the congregation as that agrees first to the fire and then to iron to water for the fire 3. Paul saying all are yours whether Paul c. he cannot mean Paul as an Apostle is proper to you as a congregation in all his Apostolick travels for that is false nor can the meaning be Paul as a fixed Pastor is yours for he was no fixed Pastor to them tyed to that congregation only Then the meaning must be Paul and by a Synechdoche all the Apostles and Pastors and the World and Life and Death in their labours must be for you and the Catholick Church and all the Saints all the earth over whom they must gather in and perfect as Christs body and parts of his body Ephes. 4. 11 12 13. and
not as a congregation so our Brethren in this as in many other points abuse but expound not the word Mr. H. The power of the keys is in her the Church congregational of Believers as in the cause subordinately under Christ and it may thereby here be acted as potestas judicii in admission of members in the absence of Ministers in censuring by admonition for each man is a Iudge of his brother and there is a judicial way of admonition when the parties are in such a state as in foro exteriori they can make process juridicè against each other so there is a power of gift in all elections Or else this power of the keys is communicated from her to the officers the soul doth not see but by an eye makes an eye and sees by it so that the Church makes a Minister and dispenseth Words and Sacraments by Officers Answ. We seek Scripture and see only Mr. H. his naked assertions 1. The power of the Keys is radically in the Church of redeemed ones to wit the male-Church of redeemed ones a creature for name and thing not in the Word 2. That this male-Church by a judicial power admits members prove that 3. In the absence of Ministers this is done then Ministers and Elders with the male-Church excluding women aged children judicially admit members then all female members and children and servants with blind obedience must own these members and watch over them prove this for women have neither consent nor vote 4. That every one may judicially process another that is judicially accuse one another and complain and bring witnesses against one another and prove the scandal that is true and may judicially accuse before the Church the daughters or servant women yea or men that are incorrigible after private admonition but that the members of the male-Church judge one another by the power of the Keyes is the question Give us Scripture for it 5. There is Potestas doni a power of a gift in all elections well a power of a gift of discerning trying who shall be my Pastor sure women have their gift of discerning why should Pastors be obtruded upon women blindly should men have dominion over their faith I am glad that Mr. H. gives no juridical power to the call and making of Officers but only a power of gift Potestas doni But the Church communicates this power of the Keyes to the Officers that is the male Church of redeemed Brethren This is proved by no word of God but by a similitude in which it is said by poor Physiology The Soul makes an Eye and the Brethren make their Officers which we deny God makes them by the laying on of the hands of the Elders Acts 6. 6. 1 Tim. 4. 14. 2 Tim. 2. 2. 1 Tim. 5. 22. Mr. H. The power of judgement is the Church formaliter Ans. It is often said never proved to be formaliter in your male Church CHAP. III. Whether Mr. Hooker his Arguments conclude strongly that the People have a power of judging MR. H. 197. The power of judgement is in the Rulers directively as formally in the people they out of an office power leading the whole proceeding therein Ans. I never heard that a chief member either Speaker in Parliament or President in Councel or Chair-man in Committee or Moderator in Assembly was a place of juridical power or office over the Judicature or Members of the Church a place of priority of order it is which one may have to day and want to morrow for the nature of order requires that one open the Assembly and moderate the meeting if this be all the official power that Mr. H. gives to officers is weak and of no worth 2. There is no power no act of ruling and governing given to the Pastors above the Brethren For 1. To call an Assembly Ioâ—l 2. Is not proper to the officers the Assembly by its intrinsical power from Christ may convene in his name Nor 2. To examine members whether they be Apostles or not by their way cannot be proper to the Elders ruling for it agrees to other members as welâ— as to them 3. Ordination is and may be according to our Brethren and creating of Officers though Mr. Cotton make it peculiar to Officers because of Act. 6. 6. 1 Tim 4. 14. as Mr. Cotton cites yet Mr. H. saith the Brethren may do it 4. It is no act of the Key of Authority that the Elders open the doors of speech more then that one speak before another or that Elihu speak more then the rest of the friends is no act of the power of the Keyes Nor 5. Is the preparing of matters and receiving of complaints by our Brethrens way proper to them then to other officers more since Mr. H. saith all equally have the power of the Keys from the Church of Brethren What power of the Keyes the Pastors have in preaching and exhorting they have it rather over the congregation then over the male-male-Church of Brethren nor is it so properly a superiority of rule as of doctrine which in Synods they have over Churches nor can the Pastor have a directive power as a Pastor over the brethren since by M. H. his way they may judg and censure him Can the King be their Judg with a directive power who not being a Parliament may judg authoritatively whether he should be King or not and may dethrone him Mr. H. Arg. 1. Ejusdem ist instituere destituere The people have power to consure and depose Officers in case of heresie or otber iuiquity for they gave power by election to Rulers Ans. It is ordinary to our Brethren to prove in a Circle the fraternity have power to chuse Officers ere they have power to depose and they have power to censure excommunicate he whole being above the part ergo they must have power to ordain we deny the Fraternity can either make or unmake officers 2. That is not so undeniable a proposition an Assembly of Officers a Church of thirty may constitute themselves in a Judicature and so may a Parliament by an intrinsecal power in themselves Ergo they may for heresie and scandal against the Law of Nature destroy and censure themselves it followeth not 3. Apostles were immediatly called of God and made Pastors habitu by that call and special direction of the spirit which was in stead of Election Paul is forbidden to preach in Bithynia and called to preach in Macedonia how many times should the Pâ—ostles be made Pastors and unpastored again if the present call be that only which makes them Pastors Levites were ordained to serve the Tribes joyntly and when the Tribes were dispersed the Levites were dispersed and remained Levites in whatever place they came to as Mr. Hudson sheweth 4. If Pastors be baptized and members of the Churchonly to which they are chosen Pastors then as to the former part they and all other baptized to one single
must say my God is the Rock of this institution of a single independent frame And whereas persons are set upon a Rock that this new institution is builded upon the Rock by the hand of Christ and whereas persons are tempted by the ports of Hell but being upon their Rock they are kept to say institutions are tempted but being upon their Rock they are kept is new and insolent Divinity If it be said the persons are built by Christ in this Church-frame of Independency they believing and professing sincerity it is almost the same For then 1. the persons in the very frame are kept in the frame so that the ports of Hell shall not demolish the visible frame they sincerely believing but since the promise is made to all that sincerely adhere to their profession and fulfil the condition shall all such godly incorporations as by persecution and malice of Satan and the ports or strength of hell are dissolved and all godly and visible Saints who by banishment exile or violent death are pulled away from visible membership be thrown off the rock Christ And doth the gates of Hell prevail against such believers If it be said yet in a spiritual sense such are eminently and satisfyingly made members of a more glorious society even of the Church triumphant as the promise of the fifth command Eph. 6. of long life is fulfilled to an obedient gracious son who dies young and so here I am sure it will not be found especially in the New Testament that the Lord tyes a promise spiritual of perseverance in grace and deliverance from the prevailing temptations of Hell to any single visible Church-frame But 2. the building on the Rock and deliverance from the prevailing temptations of Hell by this exposition is made by the grant of Mr. H. to the visible profession that may be in Iudas and Magus and is it to be believed that Christ promiseth with his own hand to build upon the rock Magus and Iudas who are as essentially stones of the building and whose acts of the Keyes are aâ— valid as these of sincere believers so as the gates of Hell shall never prevail against these sons of perdition So Mr. H. expounds it 3â— Many Martyrs faithfully perform congregational duties yet doth not Christ make good this promise for when members are dissolved by banishment they are thrown off the rock That which by our Saviour is set down as contrary to their comfortable union with and building upon Christ their rock is being foiled with the Temptations of Satan and Hell and being thrown off the rock like the Hypocrite Matth. 7. who is the house builded on the sand for the strength of a war City as Calvin noteth and Pareus were in iron gates and bars Psal. 127. 5. Deut. 3. 5. and so by this interpretation the Lords dissolving of a Church which often is a work of mercy and putting of his children to an honourable condition of Martyrdom and glorifying of God by suffering and scattering of his Church as Acts 8. 12. must be a throwing them off the rock Christ and a prevailing of the ports of Hell against them contrary to the scope and intent of Christ in the Text. 6. It is a most uncomfortable doctrine that men and women builded on the Rock Christ and chosen to salvation have only right by this so expounded Text to union with Christ their Rock and victory over the gates of hell in so far as they are inchurched covenant wayes into such an independent corporation when the Saints builded upon the Rock and persevering by the grace of God contrary to all the machinations of hell may be scattered 1 Pet. 1. 2. wander in the mountains and desarts Heb. 11. 38. and have no certain dwelling house 1 Cor. 4. 11. and sojourning visible Saints and be not so much as visible members and it is cruelty to say such are no members of Christs visible body but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 without and not builded on the Rock 7. Mr. H. grants a man may give Petors confession par 1. c. 6. page 62. and men may be scattered stones visible Saints and yet through some opinion concerning the visible Church be members of no such congregation are they for that not builded upon the Rock and Mr. H. brings this interpretation Salve â—â—liore judiciâ— by stress of argument 2. As to the Minor But the invisible Church is not built by a visible profession upon the Rock as Peter was It is most false for there is a twofold invisibility and twofold visibility 1. Such as in the election of God only and are not called yet are invisible as Saul persecuting such indeed are not actually built upon the rock by visible profession as Peter was But 2. Peter and all sincerely professing Christ as Peter and the other ten are both the invisible Church in so far as sincerity of faith and love is only in the heart and known infallibly to none but to God and to the man himself who hath received the white stone the new name Rev. 1. 17. and also they all such are and may be built by the same visible confession of Peter real and sincere for of a sincere visible and audible confession only as real and saving our Saviour speaks Mat. 16. as Mr. R. holds upon the rock I grant there may be degrees of real sincerity more or less in men and women but the same in nature spâ—â—io that is in Peter is in women by which they are built upon the rock and so they are invisible members in the latter sense and are also built visibly really upon the rock by Peters faith coming out in a real visible confession and the invisible Church in this sense is also the true real visible Church and a visible confession or profession is either real or hypocritical and seeming that it is real of which the Text speaks Mr. R. proves because from it Christ pronounces Peter really blessed 2. Because it was taught Peter by the Father of Christ and not by flesh and blood Mr. H. contendâ— that it may be seeming only I desire he or any for him may prove it was seeming only or may be seeming only yea it was exclusive of Iudas the Traitor his confession for he knew nothing of the revelation of the Father nor was he blessed as Peter nor is it our Saviours purpose to praise and commend hypocrisie Mat. 16. and therefore there is not truth in that which M. H. saith that there is a contrariâ—ty or opposition between visibility and invisibility So expounded the opposition is not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nor 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as Aristotle and Ramus both require and therefore it is granted that the house of God 1 Tim. 3. 15. in which Timothy was to behave himself right was the visible Church of Ephâ—sus and the other Church Presbyterial but that this cannot consist with invisibility is most false
it destroyes the ministry faithful Apostles and Pastors calling who are sent to gather into Christ all the invisible members of Christs mystical body and to make them visible professors And whereas he sayes that this direction of Paul to Timothy was to continue to all succeeding officers to the end and that in all particular charges given to them is truth seen through a cloud 1. This direction in these Epistles was to continue to all succeeding officers Ergo the laying on of hands and ordaining watchmen and Bishops and this direction appointing Elders faithful men able to teach and the rest belonging to the Keyes must bâ— gâ—ven to officers not to the male Church 2. Here is some succession of godly Pastors to the end to all Pastors and Elders with such qualifications as a Bishop must be blameless c. 1 Tim. 2. Deacons must be such c. the direction is givâ—n to all succeeding officers to the end why not rather to the first proper subject of the Keyes to the male-Church 3. That 1 Tim. 3. 15. The house of God is the pillar and ground of truth and the body of Christ for the perfecting and edifying whereof Eph. 3. 12. Christ gave Apostles Evangelists Pastors and Doctors 10. 11. is the single particular independent Church Salvo mâ—liori judicio saith Mr. H. in his conjectural modesty is contrary to all Scripture and this is the very Church builded upon the rock against which the gates of hell shall not prevail and upon this account hearken to Mr. H. his distinction Mr. R. propounded an argument never yet answered to prove that the Church builded upon the rock cannot be the single visible congregation against Papists Socinians and our Brethren That Church is here Mat. 16. understood against which the gates of hell shall never prevail but against the visible independent congregationall the seven Churches of Asia now are fallen away Church the gates of hell hath prevailed Ans. This or that particular Church or congregation may fall away but there must be a Church universal existing in its particulars this or that Church which Christ will have while the world continues Eph. 4. 11. D. Ames medulla l. 1. c. 31. 37. Ans. To begin with what Amesius saith it s utterly impertinent The title of that Chapter is of the Mystical Church the members of which can never fall away but must be until the end of the world as the title of the next Chapter is of the instituted Church yea Amâ—sius saith this place Matth. 16. is a special promise made to those built on a Rock to the Militant Catholick Church and to real believers onely not to hypocrites Mr. H. by this teacheth the Patrons of the Apostasie of the Saints a distinction useful for their Errour So cinus saith The places which saith They are saved who are written in the Book of Life before the world was do not speak of some particular man thâ—â— or that as Mr. H. this or that single Church may fall off the Rock but some kinde of men and therefore Mr. H. renders this a comfortless doctrine which Christ makes a singular bulwark of Faith and Consolation to single persons Peter Mary who believe and are built upon the Rock that such shall never fall away but this or that congregation of some few persons though true and real believers may and do fall away This is the down-right Apostasie of believers 2. This strongly savours of the Jesuit Ruiz his Necessitas vaga though Mr. H. hate Doctrine and Way when his sharp engine sees them when a thing is necessarily to fall out in upon or about the kinde of men but not in or upon this single man as it is infallible and necessary that there be war and be peace and that there be husbandmen and be sailers but God determines and bows the heart of no single man to be a husbandman rather than a sailer he might say to be a King rather than a poor Beggar This kinde of necessity is against the providence of Gods special care as to great things as to Kingdoms Dan. 4. 32. so to all smaller things the stirring of a Sparrows wing Mat. 10. 29 30. the hair of the head the growing and withering of a gourd Ionah 4. 6. the motion of a worm eating the gourd which confused providence Suarez Cumel Ledesma forsake as shameful 3. The particular Independent congregation is either built upon the Rock unmoveably by a promise of the Gospel as no Divine can deny that the grace of perseverance if such a grace as it must be be granted for by Nature men persevere not is given by a Gospel-promise or by no promise But men persevere without any Gospel-promise as the Sea ebbes the Wind blows which yet cannot be said if a promise there be then when this particular Church falls away Now Mr. H. grants the Apostasie of this or that particular Church of Ephesus from the Rock and the prevailing of the gates of Hell against the single man or Independent Church of Ephesus for he saith the place Mat. 16. The gates of hâ—ll shall not prevail c. is to be meant of the Church Congregational existing it its universal nature in its particular Congregations then he must mean that some one single congregation of Ephesus or Sâ—… may and do fall off the Rock which is a clear Apostasie of the Saints for it cannot be said this or that single Church shall fall away so being they pray and watch For 1. That is the very thing which the Arminians and Socinians say on this place that the Church Mat. 16. 18. remaining and persevering a true Church remains unconquered by death and condemnation 2. Praying and persevering in praying and watching thereunto Ephes. 6 18. is a great part of persevering and so persevering is promised upon condition of persevering and therefore Mr. H. must betake himself to a more unthrifty shift and quit the place Mat. 16 and so gratifie Arminians and Socinians who say that it proves not the perseverance of the Saints and so must say that the building of the Church upon the Rock is the Lords continuate act of forming single societies upon the Rock Christ giving them victory over Hell So that he miscarries and â—â—lls from his intended end in keeping this or that single man or Church upon the Rock but yet obtains his principal end in keeping the universal nature of man and of an Independent Church upon the Rock A more confused providence than ever Pelagius or any devised and a singular gratifying of Jesuits and Sociniam 3. If the keeping of believers 〈◊〉 Saints upon the Rock Christ so that the gates of 〈◊〉 shall 〈◊〉 prevail to throw them off the Rock and put those that once were justified and by faith built upon the Rock Christ in a state of condemnation be referred to the Deâ—rce of God then must God have made the same general confused
Church for these that have been and now are glorified and shall be and are not yet born and that now are but none of the two former are capable subjects of the Keyes 2. The proposition is not mine nor the argument the Keys are given say I to the guides of the Catholick visible Church as to the formal subjectum first and proper and are exercised by them by the consent of the people men or women nor should any new act of Doctrine be passed or weightier points of discipline in Assemblies until the people hear of them the keyes are given to and for the whole Catholick Church of beleevers as the object and end for the gathering them in to the unity of faith Eph. 4. 11 12. and as this visible Church falleth under the intention and decree of God to be saved they are one and the same persons with the invisible Church as the body of Christ Eph. 4. 12. is taken for both the invisible body It is 2. taken more largely as the Catholick visible body comprehends all that hear and profess subjection to the Gospel elect and reprobate and the Lord gives a ministry seals and visible membership to all and every one of this body to Esan to Iacob to Iudas the traitor as to Peter a beleever not to bring all and every one of them to the unity of faith and to the acknowledgement of the Son of God but for other unlike ends finibus disparibus to save some to make others inexcusable Mr. H. If all ministerial power saith Mr. R. be given to a congregation as our brethren say under the name of a flock of redeemed ones as the body of Christ Acts 20. 28. Colos. 1. 18. Then it belongs to the Catholick Church for these titles agree first to the Catholick visible Church Colossians 1. 18. Ephesians 1. 25 26. 1 Tim. 3. 15. Eph. 2. 19 20. and so they come to our hand Ans. The Catholick Church admits of a threefold apprehension 1. As it implies a covenanting congregation of beleevers 2. As it represents the whole ut totum representative an Oecumenick Council 3. Ut totum integrale as it is the whole Catholick Church spread all the world over if Mr. R. mean the first we agree but the guides cannot be the first subject for the Catholick Church and the guides are different The second part Mr. R. grants that the ministerial power of the Keyes is given to a congregation under the name of the flock c. Hence his cause must needs suffer shipwrack that the Keys are given to the ministry of the Catholick Church Ans. That the first member of your threefold apprehension hath any warrant in Scripture or sound Dâ—vines is a meer apprehension I desire the Reader to consider the Catholick Church Aâ— 1. It implyes a covenanting congregation of beleevers give a warrant from Scripture sound Reason or Divines for that The Catholick Church is the whole body militant on earth excluding none but a congregation of covenanting beleevers excludes all Churches on earth except fourty or fifty persons 2. The Catholick body organical of man includes all the body and organs of it head eyes mouth tongue feet c. Now what sense is here the Catholick organical body of man admits of a threefold apprehension 1. It implyes the congregation of five fingers combined in the hand and the hand is predicated of this or that hand and so is the Catholick body of the whole Catholick organick body of man Or to come to a politick body the Catholick body of England admits of a threefold apprehension 1. It implies the congregation of all the City of York covenanted together and the City of York is the Catholick body of England which is predicated and affirmed of this or that City of York No man speaks so but onely Mr. Hooker that I know Since the world was no man can say a single congregation take it either in the common nature of a congregation of a 1000. or for this or that congregation that a congregation is the Catholick Church no more then the hand is the Catholick organical body of man 2. Mr. R. grants saith he that the ministerial power of the Keyes is given to a Congregation under the name of a flock c. Answ. Reade my words if I deny not that and speak onely according to the grant and confession of our Brethren 2. Onely hypothetically if all power Ministerial be given to a congregation by our Brethrens confession under the name of a flock of Redeemed ones c. then it belongs firstly to the Catholick Church i. e. to the congregation I never dreamed that a congregation was the Catholick Church and I should be crazed in judgement if so I had spoken And how the Keys are given or belong to the Catholick integral body as the object and final cause to the Guides of the Catholick Church as the first formal subject I often declare and what shipwrack or breaking of board is here let the Reader judge I difference between the Ministers and the Catholick Church by this means but that Mr. H. hath said not one word to my Arment If power priviledges spiritual be given to the congregation as the redeemed flock and body of Christ then must power and priviledges be given first and principally to such a company to which these styles of The Redeemed of Christ The Body of Christ agree first but to be the redeemed of Christ to be the body of Christ to be his redeemed ones agree first not to the Church of Ephesus nor to any particular Church National Provincial Presbyterial or Congregational but to the whole Catholick Body Ioh. 3. 16. 10. 11. 11. 52. 1 Ioh. 2. 2. and when Christ is called the Head of the Body Eph. 1. 22. Coloss. 1. 18. I shall judge him scarce worthy the name of a Divine I cannot expound the places of a single congregation 〈◊〉 Eph. 1. â—2 Col. 1. 18. the holy Ghost speaks of that Body which is the fulness of him who filleth all in all Eph. 1. and of the Body of which Christ iâ— Head as the first begotten of the dead and of the whole body reconciled by the blood of the cross if it be said the congregation in its common nature is the first subject of the Keys for it contains all the Catholick Church Ans. It contains no women aged children servants nor sojourners nor dismembred visible Saints and therefore the congregation Independent in any sense is a narrow and impertinent subject of the Key and this is shipwrack really to the cause of Mr. H. as for that that the Church Cant. 6. is a congregation in general and that the Church is one there genere in kinde it s against the Text. 1. The congregation is not one but hath threescore Queens fourscore Concubines Virgins without number who are integral parts of that one Catholick Church ver 8. but essential parts of a congregation
have as primarily intrinsecally immediately in their sphere and orb the Keys due to them according to the proportion of the associated body as the whole integral-Catholick Presbytery and Church hath whether in an Oecumenick Councel or out of it It is then a wide mistake in Mr. H. to tell us If an Oecumenical Councel be the first subject of the Keys as it is not that there can be no act of power in ordaining of Ministers in excommunicating of delinquents but by vertue of an Oecumenical Councel giving their influence first to that work For if the meaning be as it must be that a General Councel must prove an act and put forth some actual Mandate commanding such a man to be ordained an officer such a delinquent to be excommunicate else the Churches cannot proceed for to take Mr H. his own comparison Richard or Ioshua cannot be a man or apt to laugh except the abstract nature of man give in his influence to the work And since Mr. H. and his Brethren make the male-congregation abstracted from this or that congregation the first formal subject of the whole power of the Keys what influence I ask doth the so abstract congregation give to the work of Ordination and Excommunication in a particular congregation Abstracted natures do not send abroad mandates to all the congregations all the world over before they can ordain censure or excommunicate If it be said this agrees to the nature of a congregation in general to ordain and excommunicate but there needs no other actual influence of a command to come from the congregation in general to this individual congregation for their using of the Keys True there needs not by the like that any mandate pass from the Oecumenick Councel in general to this or that individual Oecumenick Councel in the exercise of its Synodical acts But saith Mr. H. if the Oecumenick Councel be the first formal subject of the power of the Keys then inferiour Courts cannot ordain nor excommunicate without a warrant and actual command from them Ans. This is feeble for beside that the Oecumenick Councel is not at all any such formal first subject as is said it s a naughty consequence for though power of life and death be in King and Parliament as in the first subject it follows not that an inferiour Judge or free City cannot put to death notorious Traitors and Murtherers all England over without the influence of some actual Mandate from King and Parliament to the putting to death of every Traitor So when Christ gave power of Word Seals and Censures to the Apostles as representing all officers say we or as representing all believers saith Mr. H. it follows that officers and the male-Church cannot administer Word Seals Censures without the influence of a new actual command from the Apostles who did represent all such to whom Jesus Christ gave the Keyes by this arguing of Mr. H. Nor does Mr. H. his first deduction follow that if a General Councel be such a subject as it is not that therefore the existing of such a Councel is as necessary as the well-being of the Church For a Parliamentary power is necessary for England yet suppose by war and other invincible impediments a Parliament could not meet for divers years yet neither power nor exercise of Justice do cease So here Synodical power may be and by the care of the Lord of his House is continued in lesser Assemblies though such Councels exist not But 2. the Antecedent being true the Consequence is null Nor is the power of the Keyes in its latitude as is said either firstly or onely and so not perfectly in this Councel but firstly and intrinsecally in the whole integral Presbytery all the earth over Nor is it necessary that this General Councel though it were the first subject of the Keys always attain all its end in the use of the Keyes For the male-Church void of Pastors cannot attain all its end to wit the pastoral preaching the dogmatick and official sentencing of delinquents the right tendring of the seals yet is the male-Church the onely formal subject of this power to Mr. H. Mr. R. said well that a General Councel can hardly excommunicate a whole National Church for it could hardly be known to them but many are not obstinate in the National Heresie and Scandal who through weakness and fear of persecution dare not confess And it s enough that a National Church may be declared to be no Church as Moses removed the Tabernacle and pitched it without the camp Exod. 33. 7. and Paul turned away from the blaspheming Jews Acts. 13. 45 46. and yet neither the one nor the other is the excommunicating of a National Church for the word of the Covenant remained in the Nation of the Jews after Paul and Barnabas turned from them and preached to the Gentiles Iam. 1. 1. Heb. 1. 1. 3. 6. 10. 25. 1 Pet. 1 1. 1 Ioh. 1. 1. 2. 1 2. Nor is our Brethrens new censure of non communion of Churches so warrantable For 1. The removing of the Candlestick seems to be a judgment inflicted onely by Jesus Christ and they who declare such a society to be no Church must have the warrant of Christ going before and really removing the Gospel For if the Word the contract of marriage and seals remain there in their substance they can only the profession thereof not ceasing declare them an impure and corrupt Church but not to be no Church 2. The doctrine or practise of a Church may be erroneous hurtful and destructive to holiness as that of Pergamus and Thyatira and they defend it and yet remaining sound in other points they cease not to be a people in covenant with God and they cannot be declared no Church and the Ministerial acts of baptizing invalid and to be reiterate as is clear in the Church of the Jews though Idolatrous and in the Scribes and Pharisees corrupt the same way in practise and doctrine whom Christ commandeth to hear Mat. 23. 1 2. far more for a sinful act of Jurisdiction leave they not off to be a Church 3. How can it be clear to a sister-sister-Church that there are not there the Church being above a thousand or many Churches for many Churches may be unchurched as well as one a few names that out of weakness onely are silent at the sinful doctrine and practise of the Church 4. It s hard to say the Church of Rome in which there are the matrimonial Tables the Old and New Testament valid Baptism and Salvation to a covenanted people by the fundamentals preached is no Church though communion with such a Whore be unlawful Mr. H. If the Churches refuse the sentence of Excommunication inflicted by the Court Oâ—cumenical it can never prevail to attain its end Ans. Ergo its unlawful It follows not the Churches the person excommunicate refuse to abstain from the society of one
and Gentile baptized unto one body 1 Cor. 12. 12 13 14 15 16 21 22. to tender the Supper upon occasion to them and their members as Scripture 1 Cor. 10. 16 17. and our Brethren teach and stand in need of the Church-praying Church-praising Church confirmation by pastoral teaching of eminent Teachers and of Church suffering c. by Martyrdome and otherwise Then must that congregation be a visible member with all visible congregaâ—ions on earth and by good Logick all the congregations on earth are one integral catholick visible Church 11. If the Apostle here condemn a Schism and Rent not from one single congregation onely but from the body of Jews and Gentiles baptized into one Spirit ver 12 13. 25. from the Churches of Galatia Gal. 5 20. from all Churches Iude v. 19. and commend union with all Churches because of one Faith one Lord one Baptism Eph. 4. 1 2 3 4. then he supposes they are one Body Cyprian B. of Carthage Cornelius B. of Rome justly excommunicated Novatus denying mercy to them that fell Ergo those great Churches made one visible body and the Novatians were not Schismaticks because they separated from one single congregation but saith Socrates they hindred the Churches from union Augustine and Optatus Melivit and the Fathers make the Donatists Schismaticks in separating from the catholick Church and denying there was any Church but their own in one part of Africa See Pet. Martyr learnedly disputing about Schism and Calvin See Aug. and Opt. Melivitan 12. It s true saith Mr. H. of all congregations that the members do and should care one for another Ans. And this 12 I bring for one Argument if this gloss of Mr. H. remove all member-care and all organical-care of suffering and joy such as is betwixt the members of the same body from congregations toward all other congregations as toward their fellow-members and limit member care and member fellow-feeling to only members of the same congregation then this gloss must contradict the holy Ghost 1 Cor. 12. 26. And whether one member suffer all the members suffer with it or one member be honoured all the members rejoyce with it for this gloss saith I the Church of Boston complete and independent within my self care not with member care for all the congregations on earth though they utterly perish nor do I rejoyce with the fellow-feeling joy of fellow-members at the honour and spiritual good of all the congregations on earth Sure this doctrine cannot be of God which is so contrary to Scripture for that was not typical in the Old Testament that the members of the Jewish Church should sorrow and rejoyce with members of that covenanted Nation as with those mâ—mbers of the same body as David Psal. 19. 2. 122. 1 2 6 7 8 119. 63. Moses Exod. 2. 11. Heb. 11. 24 25. Mordecai and Esther Esth. 2. 1 2. ver 15 16 17. cap. 21 22. and the captive people Psal. 137. 1 2 3 4 5. and Ieremiah cap. 9. 1 2 3. Ezekiel cap. 9. 8. 11. 13. Daniel cap. 9 16 17 18 c. but we are not to mourn with those that mourn nor to rejoyce with those that rejoyce as Rom. 12. 15 with a fellow-feeling affection as with members of the same visible body though their weal and woe be most visible to us as their Church and Saintship is except with those onely who are members of the same Independent congregation for they are not of the body of which we are members as the body of Socrates feels no member pain when the finger of Iohn is cut off 7. There is a body to be gathered into the unity of faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God a body to be glorified Eph. 4. 13. Now this is the Catholick Body of Christ and the Lords end why he gave Apostles Prophets and Doctors till we be all glorified and this Church is visible because gathered and edified by a Ministry they are the visible Church which is fed by Ministers The Church built upon the Rock against which the gates of hell cannot prevail can be no single congregation for the gates of hell prevail against the single congregation therefore it must be the Catholick Church which only continues to the end And this Church is visible for to the Ministers thereof are the Keyes given to open and shut the Kingdom of Heaven by the word preached seals and censures Matth. 16. Ergo there is a Catholick integral militant Church visible If Christ reign by the preached word seals and censures over the Kingdoms of the World Rev. 11. 15. over the Nations Isa. 2. 1 2. Psal. 2 8 9. Psal. 22. 27 28. Psal. 96. 10 11 12. Psal. 97. 1 2 3 4 c. Psal. 98. 7 8 9. Psal. 99. 1 2 3. and have a visible government in the house of David Isa. 9. 7. over the earth Isa. 11. 4 10 11. from sea to sea Psal. 72. 8 c. then is there a Catholick integral visible Church but the former is true Obj. All our Divines say it is a Popish tenet that the Catholick Church is visible our Divines acknowledge no Church visible but only a particular Church Ans. Mr. Hudson a learned and godly man reaps so cleanly that I shall not cast any sickle into his field noâ— is there need 1. The Papists contend for a catholick visible Church to set their man of sin over it this Church includeth some of them say Purgatory and Heaven and Hell of both which he bears the Keys Salmeron Cornel à Lapide they may be loosed that are under the earth by Keys as members of the body He gives saith Cornelius à Lapide pardons to the dead invisible members indeed not by way of juridical absolution for the dead are no longer subjects on earth but by way of suffrage Bâ—llarmin proves from Pet. Cluniacens that the dead in Purgatory are members of the catholick Church And the Pope saith Bellarmin as the chief dispenser of the treasures of the Church may bestow upon those in Purgatory bona opera poenalia quae in Thesauro sunt the good works of the godly done by way of suffering In this the Catholick Church cannot be visible 2. The Papists contend for a catholick Church visible such as we believe to be the catholick Church in the Apostles Creed So Bellarmin makes the name of Catholicks and the name of Christians all one and the catholick Church a tree from which through divers times and ages branches have been cut And so must be as Rodericus de Arriaga Catholick extending it self all the world over in divers ages and times Ad. Tannerus The Church is called Catholick for the Universality of the Doctrine and the Universality of Time from the beginning of the World to the end enduring â—or ever and for the Universality of the Place Now they make the Pope the head and chief Pastor of this
him and the City then he ceaseth to be an occasional Physician to any sick in the countrey when the health of the Inhabitants of that City can permit so as he can exercise no acts of a Physician to any beside It follows not at all to be a pastor occasionally to all Churches and to be a fixed pastor ordinarily and by covenant to this flock are most consistent Mr. H. That which the communion so Mr. R. of sister-Churches requires to be done that pastors lawfully may do Mr. R. ought in conscience to do But that a pastor as a pastor may officiate to other congregations and their members saith M. R. this the communion of Churches require in the necessary absence of the pastor to defend the flock from Wolves The Assumption is denied and left wholly destitute of proof Supply may be lent in such cases by Christian counsel and by mutual consociation of advice though there be no expression of Iurisdiction nor can we be said to take away communion of Churches where God hath granted no right of communion Ans. Mr. H. cuts and divides my Arg. for it hath a demonstration of the truth of the Assumption Christ hath established the communion of Saints and of all Saints in specie and of Churches in Church-praying one for another Church-praising one for another Eph. 6. 18. praying always with all prayer 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for all Saints but Churches as Churches are Saints Mr. H. gives us the name of communion of Saints by advice and counsel which is the communion of Pagans and Saints for Saints owe Christian counsel and Christian advice to Pagans and Idolaters And Mr. H. gives us this goodly Divinity God never granted any right of communion between Churches therefore it cannot be taken away Hence one congregation owes no more Church-communion to another than to Pagans contrary to their own express Doctrine for if the Brethren hold a communion of divers members of divers Churches in partaking of one Lords Supper at the same Table then must they hold a communion of Churches as Churches But the former they held as the words cited clear Mr. H. If Ministers saith Mr. R. in his second Arg. may labour to convert unbelieving strangers and to adde them to their flock that they may enlarge Christs Kingdom then may they exercise pastoral acts over and above others than those of their own charge 2. Divers congregations are to keep visible communion of exhorting rebuking one another Ans. Those that were no officers but dispersed yet preached the Gospel Act. 8. Apollos no officer edified those that believed Acts. 18. 27 38. that these may be done where no pastoral acts are is evident Ans. Mr. H. is pleased to answer my Arg. The proof is added where no need is that which is feeble false that hath no shadow of truth to wit the consequence is not at all confirmed nor any attempt made to that purpose It s well known a fixed pastor in his own Pulpit preaching to his own flock hath in the same act been instrumental to adde to his own flock real converts Let the Reader judge what truth it hath that in the same numerical single act of teaching the man acts both as a pastor and as no pastor but as Apollos a private man onely as Mr. H. saith 2. Whether it be feeble or no that a pastor tenders the Lords Supper to one of another congregation which he may lawfully do say our Brethren as a pastor if he tender it as a private man I know how feebly Mr. H. and all Anabaptists and Socinians can defend this Then there is a real truth in this that a pastor may exercise pastoral acts to others than to those of his own charge 3. It seems to me feeble though the instances of the dispersed who preached Acts 8. and of Apollos Acts 18. as private Christians and as no officers were granted which to me is false therefore when a pastor in one and the same Sermon and words preaching to his own flock converts one of his own flock and one of another flock that be acts as an officer and opens pastorally the gates of the Kingdom of Heaven to the one and acts as no officer as not sent of God but as a private man to the other except Mr. H. maintain the Socinian sending to preach I see not how Mr. H. can here expede himself 4. Mr. H. will not say all that were scattered Act. 8. for they were all scattered except the Apostles ver 1. did preach the Gospel for there were of them women ver 3. then some of them onely preached And if Mr. H. say they were not officers Mr. R. says they were officers and that the extraordinariness of their condition supplied the want of a Church calling and let Mr. H. but attempt to bring a proof for it 5. If nothing extraordinary was here lâ—t Mr. H. or any for him vindicate the place Act. 8. from Anabaptists who alledge the same place Act. 8. to destroy the standing Ordinance of the Ministery and reade the judicious Tractate of the Ministers of London of Mr. Collings 6. I had rather believe Oecumenius and Chrysostome who judge Apollos to be a Minister and far rather follow Gualther Diodati and Calvin who â—each that Apollos was a renowned Minister the Successor and Collegue of Paul at Corinth 1 Cor. 3. 6. Mr. H. not caring for these Lights without warrant of Scripture determines Apollos no officer and so do many Anabaptists with him 7. Nor is there any disease in my third Arg. for take away Church-rebuking and Church comforting and pastoral acting of officers toward fellow-Churches as Mr. H. expresly and in terminis doth and turn all those into Christian counsels and advices which Christians out of Church-order and women owe to those that are no Churches even to Pagans And you 1. Take away all communion of Church-talents and Church-gifts and graces for the edifying by Word or Writ sister-Churches 2. You destroy all pastoral and official gifts to sister-Churches in extreme necessity of ravenous Wolves raging among them for a pastor as a pastor must be able to convince gainsayers Tit. 1. 9 10 11. And suppose the officers of the Church of Sardis were sick and imprisoned there is taken away all communion of pastoral talents to convince Arrians Nicolaitans the Disciples of Ebion and Cerinthus or to strengthen and heal backsliders 3. The sister members of the mixt congregation as private Christians in their closets and houses may pray for their sick sister but it is unlawful for the Church to put up any Church-prayers or Church-rebukes let them perish a thousand times Is not the Lord offended at this wicked selfishness But Mr. R. saith That one congregation hath no power over another nor one Classis over another Ans. He bids at all that two parallel members two parallel Churches as perallel are coordinate and have no power juridical to excommunicate one
Pagans O Scriptureless cruelty to make God to break the covenant first the parents continuing in covenant-obedience and suffering for Christ Mr. H. Men of approved piety in covenant with God visibly are to be admitted to the seals saith Mr. R. but saith Mr. H. gracious men be pertinacious Ans. Pertinacy in a scandal marrs approved piety but because they approve not your way are they therefore pertinacious Mr. H. To be a member of the visible Church in general and have no particular existence of membership in any particular congregation is a fansie as to say there is a part of manhood not existing in John Thomas or any Individuals Ans. Mr. H. fansies there is a promise of continuing on the Rock made to the congregation in general and yet this or that congregation falls off the Rock 2. Mr. R. his Church-general is no abstract generick nature but an individual integral Catholick body existing in all the earth and one is baptized a member to all congregations jure and exists and dwells in one only as a man may have right to all City-priviledges and yet may reside and actually enjoy only the City priviledge of London Mr. H. imagines that our Catholick integral Church is genus and the Congregation species and if so the Church of Boston should be the whole integral Catholick Church and the little finger the whole body of Iohn CHAP. IX A new device of Mr. H. his two sentences the official and dogmatical sentence of officers yet not concional nor juridical and another juridical of the male-Church is examined MR. H. It is the office of Rulers dogmatically to discover the mind of God and the mind of Christ in convincing by witnesses the offenders and preparing the cause And the brethren have no more power to oppose the sentence of the Censure thus prepared and propounded by the Elders then they have to oppose their Doctrine for the Elders may preach it as the word of God by vertue of their office Ans. 1. Scripture tells us nothing of two sentences 2. Two Judicatures which lead witnesses 3. Two sorts of binding Judges This then is will-worship 2. No Scripture tells us of leading of witnesses to convince Delinquents concionally by way of preaching Old or New Testament not Mr. H. must here speak Rev. 2. 2 14 20. Acts 15. Matth. 18. 1. 1 Cor. 5 1 2. 1 Tim. 5. 22. and elsewhere we read of but one juridical censure by the whole Court and of one sentence If he hâ—aâ— not the Church c. they are not Apostles but lyers Rev. 2. 2. Iezabel should not be suffered to teach Who can dream that these wâ—… first concluded dogmatically or ought to have been so câ—…ded by the officers in one Court and then were concluded juridically by the male Church 3. These words Tâ—â—l the Church whether must they be then tâ—…ll the Officers that they may dogmatically determine or tell the male-Church that they may juridically determine and yet one of these bear the name of the Church by our Brethrens way Or 3. Tell the Church of Redeemed ones which is their only Church The first is our Church of Rulers which they cannot endure the other two cannot subsist 4. Who gave ruling Elders a joynt power to preach juridical sentences which must binde the unofficed brethren as the preached Word of God for they have no calling to labour in the word and doctrine 1 Tim. 5. 17 and how can they preach except they be sent Rom. 10. 14 15 5. How can rude and unlettered men who labour not in the word and doctrine by vertue of their office dogmatically resolve deep points of Heresie more than unofficed brethren and predetermine their conscience should the ruling Elders lips that way preserve knowledge and should they as the Messengers of the Lord of Hosts with the pastors carry the Word of God so binding others What they do in Synods is a far other thing for there they act juridically rather than dogmatically and joyntly with Pastors and Doctors 6. This sentence must lay bands upon the consciences of the male Church so that there is nothing left to them but to obey and can obeying and submitting to the Word leave any room to judging in an authoritative way sure by this they must either hear and believe after a popular judging or then reject and so must women and children of age and what place then is left to juridical sentencing by the Elders or Brethren yea so the Churches freedom of judging is none at all when the Church may no more oppose that dogmatick sentence than they may oppose the Word of God in the mouth of their officers and what greater power can be given to any then what is given to this Independent Eldership 7. When there is a contradiction between the two sentences which of the Judicatures must be supreme If the dogmatick be supreme they may dogmatickly determine that the fraternity ought to be excommunicated for opposing the Word of God in their sentence and who can excommunicate an Independent Church And again when the Elders themselves turn Wolves who then can give out an official and dogmatick sentence against them that must be wanting and hath not the like of this brought forth among Brownists reciprocal excommunications CHAP. X. Of Synods and their Power MR. H. Synods are necessary for union in the Churches In the multitude of Counsellors there is safety Acts 15. Prov. 16. Ans. Union in truth and peace among Churches say these Churches must make one visible Body then ruptures rentings scandals must say there is in this body visible a necessity of Government and Jurisdiction must be incident to that visible body which they deny for this union must be a professed union to speak and think the same thing Phil. 2 2. c. 4. and this is visible union and so they must meet not in their members that is unpossible and here is a visible Church meeting for Civil it is not debating advising about matters of government of the House of God So strong is truth Mr. H. There are associations of divers sorts Classis Synods Provincial National Oecumenick Ans. 1. A general Councel is before mocked as a nothing and the Brethren bring arguments against the being and nature of Synods Commissioners Representees The contrary is here asserted Mr. H. The acts must t is saith Mr. R. 〈◊〉 Ecclesiastick Decrees Ans. Ambignity darkness to binde as a part of Scripture is 1. That which is contained and clearly deduced from Scripture Or 2. that this act of decreeing issuing from the immediate revelation and assistance of the Spirit maketh that which is decreed to be Scripture in the former sense acts tie as good advice and counsel onely in the latter they tie not as Scripture Ans. No man I do not say its done consultò more darkens I brought three members to clear the matter Mr. H. leaves out the third and darkens all for acts of Synods
lay on bands neither as formal Scripture for they come not from the immediately inspiring Spirit nor yet onely as clear and infallible deductions from Scripture for so the counsel of a woman Abigail infallibly deduced from the sixth Command laid a burthen upon the conscience of David And this is all the tie that Mr. H. gives to Synods they tie as godly counsels of women and servants But Mr. R. and so Mr. Cotton gives a third member they lay burthens on the consciences of the Churches not for the matter onely as the godly advice of women but formally as from the Ministerial Authority of the Commissioners And this power Mr. Tho. Goodwyn and Mr. Ph. Nye give to all Ministers over their congregations So as these three shall be Judges of Mr. H. his great mistake in this distinction Hence two contradictions are here Mr. H. gives no power to Synods but power of advising such as women over men Mr. Cotton offends at that and sayes that Synods have a Ministerial power over the Churches In the former Mr. H. leaves his Brethren and sides with Socinians and Arminians And Mr. H. shall confess the weakness of this distinction if applied to doctrines delivered by Pastors to the flock for they neither binde as womens godly counsels deduced from Scripture onely not do they binde as immediately inspired formal Scripture 2. The first and formal subject of the power of the Keys is the male-Church of the congregation saith Mr. H. yea not that onely saith Mr. Cotton a part of the power of the Keys is in a Synod The Dissenting Brethren gave in a Paper to the Committee of Accommodation at Westminster concerning Synods c. 1. At these meetings let them pray and expound Scripture resolve difficult Cases of Conscience 2. They may dogmatickly declare what is the will of Christ in these cases and this judgement ought to be received with reverence and obligation 〈◊〉 from an Ordinance of Christ. 3. If the doctrine or practise of any Congregation be erroneous hurtful or destructive to holiness and peace of that or of other congregations they are bound to give an account thereof to the Classis or Synod So we owe a reason of our hope 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to every one women and Magistrates that are scandalized 1 Pet. 3. 15. Rom. 14. 15. 1 Cor. 10. 31 32. 4. The Classis and Synod may examine admonish and in case of obstinacy declare against that congregation 1. This is but toward an offending Church 2. A brother or womâ—n may declare against or withdraw from obstinate offenders though not as from a Church 5. The Classis or Synod may judge of any who deserve excommunication 6. If the particular Eldership refuse to do their duty the Classis ought not onely to withdraw communion from them but also to exercise the sentence of excommunication themselves This was refused by some but it s a great testimony from Adversaries for Presbyterial Government onely it wants Scripture 7. In the case of an appeal from an unjust sentence the Classis may repeal they say not by the power of Jurisdiction for a Christian woman a Martyr repealed the Acts of Trent the unjust sentence if the congregation be obstinate 8. The Classis or Synod may ordain Ministers for congregations that have not a sufficient Ministery In all this except the sixth much is yielded and nothing is yielded For 1. Every godly counsellor man or woman as a counsellor by the fifth Command is above such as are counsell'd being honoured to carry the minde of God as a private messenger of God beside that the counsel for the matter bindes the conscience So David saith to a woman 1 Sam. 25. 32. Blessed be the Lord God of Israel which sent thee this day to meet me 2. They insinuate a distinction of erroneous doctrine hurtful to holiness and some erroneous doctrine not hurtful to holiness whereas he who commands us to be holy as he is holy 1 Pet. 1. 16. commands all sound opinions in fundamentals or all revealed truths nor can it but be hurtful to holiness to have erroneous opinions of God and Christ such as Socinians Antinomians and Familists and others have 3. They do not with Christian candor set down their minde concerning Synods and Classis as they call them nor confirm what they say by Scripture Mr. H. If a heathen turn a member of the Iewish Church he is by Mr. R his way by the Law of Nature to submit to Iewish ceremonies because every-member of the corporation must be under the Laws of the whole This shall make every Law positive to be the Law of Nature Ans. Not so It s the Law of Nature in general that the whole rule the part but it follows not Ergo every member is to submit to every positive Law of the whole though most unjust the member is tâ—… submit to every Law of Nature commanded by the whole The little finger infected with a Gangrene is to submit to the whole man that it be cut off for the safety of the whole body but it s against particular nature that it be cut off but most suitable to universal nature So in the general its natural for the creature rational to obey the Creator but it follows not but it s a meer positive Law that Peter give his life for the Gospel when God by a positive command calls him to it and the Law positive if Divine iâ— not contrary to the Law of universal Nature Mr. H. frequently in such purposes slips Mr. H. The division of a Nation into Provinces of a Christian Province into Territories or Presbyteries is either a device of man or a Divine Institution Ans. If a device of man be taken for an act of Christian prudence it is then neither simply the one nor the other but mixt of both for a device of man is taken in an evil part for an unlawful forgery as 1 King 12. 33. Hos. 13. 2. Psa. 106. 39. and so whatever is an act of Christian choice is not a device of man Mr. H. That which is acted by one and may be altered by another Prince is a device of man But such is the division of a Nation into provinces Ans. That which is in question is not concluded the division of a Christian Nation into Presbyteries and Provinces according to local bounds and Mathematical inches is alterable and so a congregation Independent of 350 rather of 349 or 360 is alterable shall it not upon reason be an alterable device The quantity of water in Baptism of wine that every one drinks at the Lords Supper how long the pastor shall preach two hours or three are alterable as to the quantity by men but for that the Ordinances of a congregation of water in Baptism are not devices or forgeries of men that there should be such associations of Provinces of Territories for convenient feeding governing and Mr. H. granted for
against perverters of souls have juridical power if therefore these men had done the contrary and had refused to hear the Church or Churches convened and should teach these decrees came not from the holy Ghost were they not to us as Publicans and Heathens Yea and whâ—â— more could the Church of Pergamus and that of Thyatira Independent 〈◊〉 say our Brethren do in making acts against such as hâ—ld the Doctrine of Balaam of the Nicholaâ—… against Iezabel Rev. 2. 14 15. 20. If they should after prctice and practice such impure doctrine but declare them perverters of souls and charge others to keep no fellowship with them and shall all be but a rebuke such a counsel as one private man giveth to heathen and sure Pauls rebuke of these at Athens Act. 17. though it made not up the rebuke of a Church yet Paul rebuked them not as a private man or as a godly woman may rebuke Idolaters but formally as a Pastor And Paul and Barnabas as Pastors removed the Caadlestick and turned to the Gentiles Act. 13. and unchurched the Jews which no private men could do So the prophesies of Isaiah Ieremiah Ezekiel against Babylon Persians Tyrus c. as they made not the people to be Churches so they came not from private men but from the immediatly inspired Prophets and such Prophets of Divine authority these are proved to be from these Prophesies So the juridical Church-authority of the Synod by Whitaker Calvin Beza and hosts of learned Divines is concluded from Act. 15. Not is it my mind that the Jews did excommunicate the Samaritans so formally as a single delinquent is excommunicate nor do I defend the superstition by Mr. Io-Weemes and Jewish Doctors in the manner of excommunicating them It s sure the Jewes the true Church deservedly renounced Church-communion with them Origen Iosephus Carâ—lus Sigonius and others tell us they were most corrupt in their Religion 2 King 17. and though Augustine say the Jewes so abhorred them that they would not drink water out of any vessel of the Samaritans and Christ refutes that seeking water to drink from the Woman of Samaria Yet since Christ saith Ioh. 4. 22. Ye worship ye know not what we know what we worship for salvation is of the Iews he evidently as Mr. R. said justifieth the substance of the excommunication which is all I intend let their fooleries pass Mr. R. granteth one Church hath not power over another Ans. True but one associate with many hath power Mr. H. A man may separate totally from a Church and from an assembly of Turks but for one man to excommunicate were a prâ—fanation of the Lords Ordinance Ans. A single person could not separate from the Church of the Jewes though they had not a few corruptions Mat. 23. 1 2 3. Mat. 8. 4. no single person can lawfully be a member of a Turkish Church how can he then separate from such 3. The Church of the Jewes and salvation was of the Jews Ioh. 4 2â— was not one man therefore their excommunicating of the Samaritans is not hence concluded to be null 4. But when the sounder part though fewer separateth from the major part and the major part makes manifest defection from the truth and professed cause and covenant And 2 carry along with them the body of Atheists and malignant opposers of pure Religion and wicked men 3. And that the fewer and sounder part have the collective part of the godly and generality of such as make conscience of their ways with them And 4. That major part is again and again warned and 〈◊〉 go on to hold out and cast out as far as they can all not of their sinful way though in their conscience they in other things judge and prosess them to be sound and godly in that case I judge the fewer part the Church and their censures valid for the promise is made to such as meet in the name of Christ Mat. 18. Mr. H. If all common affairs that concern many congregations saith Mr. R. were managed not by one congregation but by the suffcages 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Act. 15. 25. Apostles Elders and select Brethren then Synods and their Church-power most be lawful but the former is true in the chusing of Matthias Act. 1. and the treasury of the Churches and callâ—ng of their Deacons Act. 4. 6. are disposed by a Synod of Apostles with consent of the Churches Paul instructeth a Synod or meeting of 〈◊〉 at Ephesuâ— in their duty of feeding Act. 20. Act 11. Peter gives an account of his going in to the Gentiles to a meeting of Apostles and Breâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 4. It s true in the chusing of Matthias something extraordinary there was that the Apostles could not do as Pastors but as Apostles as Apostles they appoint two v. 23. God only could limit the call to two certain men all the Pastors and Churches on earth could not do that and as Apostles v. 24. they pray for the directing of the loâ—… and Act. 6. as Apostles by the immediately inspiring authority by which they writ Scripture they appoint a new office of Deacons which was not in the Church before but they do most of the rest by the Churches going along Mr. H. There is no Synod in these 1. There be no delegate Commissioners 2. No gathering of members by common consent 3. No disputing 4. No common determination Ans. Neither the first nor the second are essential to Synods if they be persons in publick authority they have a material delegation a formal commission is a matter of order nor were the last two wanting not to say where the matter is plain shall it lose the nature of a Synod because it wants doubtsome â—…diations But Mr. H. and Mr. Cotton are obliged to give an instance scriptural beside the question we have Act. 15. a meeting of Apostles Elders Brethren exercising by the grant of Mr. Cotton and the 7. dissenting Brethren some specifick Churchâ—â—cts of synodical pastoral authoritative teaching and commanding of more congregations then one Ergo they have power to exercise juridical acts for if Peter may exercise one specifick act of a man let us suppose to play the Musician the Astronomer to number things numerable to admire to laugh no man can deny but Peter then must be a man and hath power to discourse and argue So if a Synod as a Synod can exercise one specifick act of a Church being convened in the name of Christ a reason must be given why a Synod hath not the essence of a Church to exercise all the specifick acts of a Church A Synod is not a congregational Church Ergo it s no Church est incons à negatione species c. Mr. H. Peter gives an account of his fact Act. 11. to the Iews who doubt of the lawfulness of his conversing with the Gentiles but here is no Synod Ans. Yea the Jewes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Syrus Chrysostom
all Gospel-vows to be unnecessary and will worship under the New Testament Whereas Papists tell us in the Mass they make a general vow of obedience to God See Durantus and Gab. Biel. Mr. H. For if the Magistrate were bound to follow the judgement of the Churches and Ministry if they should judge a toleration of all Religions lawful or judge the false to be true he then were bound to nurse the false Religion and false Churches Ans. 1. No shadow of consequence is here for neither Magistrate nor people can be bound to follow the judgement of the Churches or Ministry farther then they follow the Rule of the Word they follow their judgement conditionally not absolutely and simply and it is a great calumny of Mr. Burton and our Brethren that we lay bands on the consciences of Prince and people to follow the acts and determinations of the Church be they true or false and that there is no place left to appeal to the next or a better informed Synod and to the consciences of the collective Church of the godly judicious professors and to protest and deny obedience to erring Assemblies If it be said but where is there a Iudge to determine whether this or another well informed Synod or the conscience of the collective body of the godly be right This argument falls with equal weight upon all Judicatures all Judges Parliament Prince and Councellors with him upon all Assemblies for what they determine be it toleration of all blasphemies or a strictest uniformity in Worship and Religion it hath no power to bind the conscientious and moral practices of Prince or people more then to bind their conscience by this for the Fraternity and whole Church is tyed to follow the dogmatick determination of officers in preaching or in sentencing delinquents without gain-saying what the officers decree saith Mr. H. it is to all as the word of God But Mr. H. must answer us Churches and Ministry are bound either absolutely or conditionally to follow the Judgement of the King who judgeth popery is the only true Religion to which he can tender protection If the former what Tyranny are we under who must submit to the Religion of the Prince or be denuded of all protection and exposed to fire and sword If the latter be said to wit that Churches and Ministry are only conditionally to follow the judgment of the King so they find it agreeable to the Word otherwise not then it must be false which Mr. H. said that the Prince is the only supreme Judge of all true and false Religions to say they must either obey or suffer saith that Christ exposed all to Martyrdom Mr. H. If it be in the Magistrates power lawfully to forbid and hinder then it is not in the power of the Churches to do lawfullye for then the same thing should be in the same regard both lawful and unlawfulâ—… and the rules of providence shall be opposite one to another but the supreme Magistrate may hinder any of another Nation to come into his Kingdom or his own subjects to go out otherwise he should want power to oppose them who come to lay waste the State and should not have power to require homage of his own people Ans. 1. The probation of the proposition is most false for the power of the Magistrate is not to forbid or command what he pleaseth but according to the rule of the Word and the Churches power is the same if both the powers be lawful their objects cannot be contradictory for God hath not given to two lawful powers any lawful liberty that the one may command what is lawful and the other what is unlawful for then he should give a power to command unlawful things and the command of a created power should make it lawful which is blasphemous this argument falls with weight upon the Independent way There is a Iezabel in the Independent Church of Thyatira and another Iezabel in the Church of Pergamus each Church say our Brethren hath an immediate Independent Church-power to excommunicate Thyatira useth their power and excommunicates Iezabel which is under them Pergamus absolves and defends their Iezabel Both powers are highest and immediate and countable to no juridical power on earth both are lawful powers Then must it follow if it be in the power of the one Church to wiâ— of Pergamus lawfully to forbid and hinder the excommunication of their equally guilty Iezabel and the câ—…ning of her blasphemous Doctrine for Pergamus absolves their â—…l and commends and defends her Doctrine as soâ—…d and â—…g then it shall not be in the power of Tâ—… lawfully to excommunicate their Iezabel and condemn heâ— plasphemous Doctrine for it shall follow that the same Doctrine must be in the same regard both lawful and sound and edifying saith the lawful power of Pergamus and 〈◊〉 unlawful and unsound and destructive to souls saith the lawful power of Thyatira 2. The probation is feeble and wacery the King hath sufficient power to oppose wasters of his Kingdom and to require homage of his subjects Suppose he have not an unlimited power to forbid these of other Nations and Churches and his own to go to a Synod within or without his Nation for the setling of the Churches in necessary peace and truth if the Churches must seek liberty and counsel for their soules good and edification nor hath he any lawful power from God to hinder his own subjects to send Commissioners to sound and godly Synods for counsel and synodical light more then Ieroboam could lawfully forbid the people to go and worship at Ierusalem upon pretence that they might be perswaded to cleave to Rehoboam their lawful Prince and waste his new Kingdom nor hath the Prince an unlimited and absolute power to exact such absolute homage of his people nor such a power over their moving from place for so the Church Independent of Ierusalem confisting of ten thousand if not more should have no intrinsecal power to meet for the publick worship of God but the Prince must have a lawful power to hinder their meeting or then the Church cannot have a lawful power to meet for the convening of ten thousands if abused is as dangerous for wasting of a Kingdom in its own way as the convening of a national Synod is or may be destructive to peace Mr. H. To appoint such solemn publick Assemblies is an act meerly civil Ergo the Prince may do it A civil act belongs not to an Ecclesiastick power A right opinion rectus de Deo sensus cultus of God and a right worship of God is a meerly civil act Ans. There is nothing here sound but evil and worse Christ â—…h given an Ecclesiastick intrinsecal power to his Church to meet it being a part of his free Kingdom and he himself a free King Suppose the Princes of the earth oppose Ps. 2. 1 2 3 4 5 6. Ps. 110. 1 2 3.