conceive_v be_v very_o true_o speak_v and_o thereupon_o it_o follow_v that_o there_o be_v a_o supremacy_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o that_o church_n of_o antioch_n and_o no_o necessity_n of_o appeal_n from_o they_o to_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o other_o for_o â—ith_o the_o synod_n be_v only_o to_o command_v the_o church_n to_o do_v their_o duty_n and_o to_o remit_v the_o censure_n of_o offender_n to_o the_o church_n themselves_o to_o who_o the_o offender_n belong_v it_o plain_o appear_v thereby_o where_o the_o supremacy_n of_o jurisdiction_n do_v lie_v the_o other_o place_n be_v in_o his_o page_n 307._o where_o we_o have_v these_o word_n viz._n the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n ordinary_a intensive_a and_o quo_fw-la ad_fw-la essentiam_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la ministerialis_fw-la according_a to_o the_o entire_a essence_n of_o a_o ministerial_a church_n be_v as_o perfect_a and_o complete_a in_o one_o single_a congregation_n as_o in_o a_o provincial_n as_o in_o a_o national_n yea_o as_o in_o 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that_o any_o other_o church_n beside_o themselves_o be_v trouble_v therewith_o but_o suppose_v they_o have_v know_v so_o much_o i_o see_v nothing_o in_o this_o to_o hinder_v but_o antioch_n may_v lawful_o clear_v up_o the_o truth_n in_o the_o question_n and_o censure_v such_o of_o their_o church_n as_o shall_v obstinate_o hold_v and_o teach_v that_o false_a doctrine_n notwithstanding_o their_o knowledge_n that_o other_o have_v be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a doctrine_n and_o teacher_n suppose_v a_o christian_a family_n be_v trouble_v with_o lie_a child_n or_o servant_n or_o such_o as_o be_v disobedient_a and_o undutiful_a in_o one_o kind_n or_o in_o another_o suppose_v they_o also_o know_v that_o their_o neighbour_n family_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a shall_v this_o knowledge_n of_o they_o hinder_v the_o parent_n or_o master_n in_o such_o a_o family_n from_o censure_v or_o correct_v these_o that_o be_v under_o their_o government_n according_a to_o their_o demerit_n if_o 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punish_v thief_n and_o such_o other_o malefactor_n only_o for_o this_o reason_n because_o to_o their_o knowledge_n other_o corporation_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a lewd_a person_n i_o suppose_v it_o be_v easy_a to_o see_v the_o insufficiency_n and_o invalidity_n of_o such_o consequence_n and_o therefore_o if_o antioch_n do_v know_v that_o other_o church_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a offender_n as_o themselves_o be_v trouble_v withal_o this_o need_v not_o to_o hinder_v but_o they_o may_v determine_v question_n that_o arise_v among_o themselves_o and_o may_v censure_v such_o of_o their_o member_n as_o shall_v trouble_v the_o church_n or_o brethren_n therewith_o and_o obstinate_o persist_v in_o so_o do_v this_o be_v consider_v withal_o that_o in_o thus_o do_v they_o do_v not_o go_v beyond_o their_o line_n nor_o meddle_v with_o matter_n any_o far_o but_o as_o they_o be_v within_o their_o compass_n for_o when_o divers_a church_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a corruption_n in_o doctrine_n or_o practice_n and_o some_o one_o of_o those_o church_n by_o use_v the_o key_n of_o doctrine_n or_o discipline_n or_o both_o do_v endeavour_v the_o removal_n of_o these_o corruption_n they_o do_v not_o hereby_o attempt_v and_o endeavour_v to_o remove_v they_o out_o of_o other_o church_n which_o may_v be_v a_o appearance_n of_o stretch_v their_o line_n beyond_o their_o compass_n but_o out_o of_o their_o own_o church_n and_o only_o so_o far_o as_o concern_v themselves_o and_o in_o so_o do_v no_o man_n can_v just_o say_v they_o meddle_v further_o than_o their_o power_n do_v reach_v but_o he_o give_v another_o reason_n why_o antioch_n have_v not_o right_a to_o determine_v the_o question_n and_o this_o be_v take_v from_o the_o strong_a party_n that_o be_v in_o antioch_n against_o the_o truth_n which_o be_v such_o as_o that_o they_o oppose_v paul_n and_o barnabas_n concern_v which_o he_o say_v that_o when_o the_o great_a part_n of_o a_o church_n as_o antioch_n be_v against_o the_o truth_n as_o be_v clear_a act._n 15._o 2._o he_o believe_v in_o that_o they_o lose_v their_o jus_o their_o right_n to_o determine_v eatenus_fw-la in_o so_o far_o for_o christ_n have_v give_v no_o ecclesiastical_a right_n and_o power_n to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n but_o only_o for_o truth_n and_o therefore_o in_o this_o appeal_v must_v be_v necessary_a answ_n how_o be_v it_o clear_a that_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o church_n at_o antioch_n be_v against_o the_o truth_n the_o text_n do_v not_o say_v so_o much_o but_o only_o this_o that_o certain_a man_n which_o come_v from_o judea_n teach_v the_o brethren_n and_o say_v except_o you_o be_v circumcise_a you_o can_v be_v save_v and_o that_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n have_v no_o small_a dissension_n and_o disputation_n with_o they_o about_o the_o matter_n and_o that_o in_o the_o issue_n they_o determine_v that_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n and_o certain_a other_o shall_v go_v up_o to_o jerusalem_n about_o the_o question_n thus_o much_o the_o scripture_n witness_v act._n 15._o 1_o 2._o but_o whether_o they_o that_o hold_v that_o corrupt_a doctrine_n at_o antioch_n be_v the_o major_a or_o the_o minor_a part_n of_o the_o church_n the_o text_n do_v not_o express_v except_o we_o shall_v say_v that_o where_o a_o false_a doctrine_n be_v teach_v by_o some_o and_o great_o oppose_v and_o dispute_v against_o by_o other_o there_o it_o must_v needs_o be_v that_o the_o great_a part_n be_v taint_v with_o that_o false_a doctrine_n which_o we_o think_v be_v no_o good_a consequence_n and_o therefore_o whereas_o our_o author_n say_v the_o great_a part_n of_o this_o church_n be_v against_o the_o truth_n and_o that_o so_o much_o be_v clear_a from_o verse_n 2._o i_o answer_v first_o that_o i_o do_v not_o perceive_v this_o clearness_n neither_o from_o verse_n 2_o nor_o from_o any_o other_o place_n of_o the_o chapter_n next_o suppose_v this_o be_v clear_a this_o may_v argue_v that_o they_o want_v ability_n and_o light_n to_o end_v the_o matter_n but_o must_v it_o need_v argue_v that_o they_o want_v right_a though_o they_o have_v be_v able_a or_o shall_v we_o say_v that_o they_o who_o want_v ability_n to_o do_v thing_n as_o they_o shall_v be_v do_v do_v therefore_o want_v right_a to_o â—â—alâ—_n in_o they_o at_o all_o i_o conceive_v it_o will_v not_o follow_v and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o this_o right_n in_o church_n be_v natural_a or_o connaturall_a to_o every_o church_n and_o this_o want_n of_o ability_n be_v only_o accidental_a and_o therefore_o this_o latter_a can_v total_o hinder_v the_o former_a that_o light_n of_o government_n be_v natural_a or_o connaturall_a to_o every_o church_n our_o brother_n own_o word_n do_v testify_v page_n 341._o where_o he_o say_v this_o viz._n suppose_v that_o christ_n have_v a_o visible_a church_n it_o be_v moral_a that_o she_o have_v power_n of_o government_n also_o in_o so_o far_o as_o she_o be_v a_o church_n yea_o power_n of_o government_n upon_o this_o supposition_n be_v natural_a or_o rather_o connaturall_a and_o in_o page_n 307_o he_o say_v as_o be_v allege_v before_o that_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n ordinary_a intensive_a be_v as_o perfect_a and_o complete_a in_o one_o single_a congregation_n as_o in_o a_o provincial_n or_o in_o a_o national_n yea_o as_o in_o the_o catholic_a visible_a body_n whereof_o christ_n be_v the_o head_n and_o in_o page_n 383._o he_o say_v that_o to_o a_o congregation_n christ_n have_v give_v by_o a_o immediate_a flux_n from_o himself_o a_o political_a church_n power_n intrinsciâ—ally_o in_o it_o derive_v from_o none_o but_o immediate_o from_o jesus_n christ_n and_o the_o like_a he_o say_v of_o a_o presbyterial_a church_n now_o whether_o antioch_n be_v a_o congregationall_a church_n as_o we_o hold_v or_o a_o presbyterial_a as_o be_v hold_v by_o this_o our_o brother_n yet_o it_o be_v clear_a by_o those_o word_n of_o his_o here_o allege_a that_o be_v essential_o a_o church_n it_o have_v a_o political_a church_n power_n intrinscical_o within_o itself_o yet_o a_o perfect_a and_o complete_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n yea_o and_o such_o a_o power_n as_o be_v natural_a or_o connaturall_a unto_o she_o as_o she_o be_v a_o church_n but_o now_o the_o light_n of_o knowledge_n whereby_o they_o shall_v be_v enable_v well_o to_o use_v this_o power_n do_v not_o add_v any_o power_n unto_o they_o which_o they_o have_v not_o before_o not_o do_v the_o want_n of_o it_o be_v but_o accidental_a deprive_v they_o of_o that_o power_n which_o be_v intrinscicall_a essential_a and_o connaturall_a unto_o they_o as_o they_o be_v a_o church_n of_o christ_n only_o this_o want_n do_v hinder_v their_o ability_n to_o express_v their_o power_n well_o but_o their_o right_n as_o be_v a_o thing_n connaturall_a do_v still_o remain_v our_o brother_n have_v a_o say_n or_o two_o about_o the_o civil_a power_n which_o by_o proportion_n may_v well_o illustrate_v this_o that_o i_o be_o speak_v okubo_n it_o the_o church-power_n in_o one_o place_n he_o say_v thus_o there_o be_v a_o twofold_a power_n in_o a_o king_n one_o in_o a_o king_n as_o a_o king_n and_o this_o be_v a_o like_a in_o all_o and_o ordinary_a regal_a coactive_a whether_o the_o king_n be_v a_o heathen_a a_o turk_n or_o a_o sound_n believe_v christian_n there_o be_v another_o power_n in_o a_o king_n as_o such_o a_o king_n either_o as_o a_o prophetical_a king_n as_o david_n and_o solomon_n or_o as_o a_o christian_a believe_v king_n and_o of_o this_o latter_a he_o say_v that_o it_o be_v not_o a_o new_a regal_a power_n but_o potestas_fw-la execuliba_fw-la a_o power_n or_o gracious_a ability_n to_o execute_v the_o kingly_a power_n which_o he_o have_v before_o as_o a_o king_n page_n 387._o etc._n etc._n 388._o â—ow_o why_o may_v it_o not_o be_v say_v in_o like_a sort_n there_o be_v in_o a_o church_n twofold_a power_n one_o in_o a_o church_n as_o it_o be_v a_o church_n and_o this_o be_v a_o like_a in_o all_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n whether_o the_o church_n in_o this_o or_o that_o particular_a question_n have_v light_a to_o discern_v and_o hold_v the_o truth_n or_o otherwise_o another_o in_o a_o church_n as_o it_o be_v sound_a believe_a church_n hold_v the_o truth_n in_o such_o or_o such_o question_n and_o this_o be_v but_o only_o a_o gracious_a ability_n to_o exercise_v the_o power_n which_o they_o have_v before_o not_o add_v to_o they_o any_o new_a power_n at_o all_o again_o in_o his_o page_n 393._o he_o have_v these_o word_n though_o the_o king_n be_v not_o a_o christian_a magistrate_n yet_o have_v he_o a_o kingly_a power_n to_o command_v man_n as_o christian_n and_o it_o be_v by_o accident_n that_o he_o can_v in_o that_o state_n command_v christian_n duty_n and_o service_n to_o christ_n because_o he_o will_v not_o and_o can_v command_v those_o duty_n remain_v ignorant_a of_o christ_n
to_o end_v their_o maâ—â—ers_n if_o they_o be_v able_a extempt_v they_o from_o be_v under_o the_o command_n of_o other_o hoshoulder_n have_v right_a to_o govern_v and_o order_v their_o family_n if_o so_o be_v that_o they_o be_v able_a do_v it_o follow_v therefore_o that_o superior_n in_o church_n or_o civil_a state_n have_v no_o power_n to_o command_v householder_n to_o do_v their_o duty_n herein_o but_o only_o to_o give_v counsel_n and_o advise_v or_o if_o housholdere_fw-la have_v such_o right_n do_v it_o follow_v that_o therefore_o they_o be_v under_o no_o command_n in_o church_n and_o commonwealth_n i_o suppose_v it_o will_v not_o follow_v at_o all_o or_o shall_v we_o say_v that_o class_n and_o provincial_n synod_n have_v no_o right_a to_o end_v their_o own_o matter_n within_o themselves_o if_o a_o national_n synod_n have_v power_n to_o command_v they_o or_o if_o they_o have_v such_o right_n shall_v we_o therefore_o say_v they_o be_v not_o under_o the_o command_n of_o the_o national_n synod_n and_o that_o the_o national_n synod_n have_v no_o power_n over_o they_o but_o only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v we_o suppose_v master_n rutherford_n will_v not_o say_v so_o and_o yet_o he_o may_v as_o well_o say_v it_o as_o say_v as_o he_o he_o do_v that_o because_o antioch_n have_v right_a to_o â—nd_v she_o own_o matter_n if_o they_o be_v able_a therefore_o a_o synod_n have_v no_o power_n but_o only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v and_o though_o the_o synod_n be_v to_o give_v counsel_n and_o advise_v which_o be_v the_o other_o ground_n whereon_o the_o conclusy_a afore_v mention_v seem_v to_o be_v build_v yet_o neither_o will_v master_n rutherford_n his_o conclusâ—on_n that_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v follow_v from_o thence_o at_o all_o for_o who_o know_v not_o that_o counsel_n and_o advise_v may_v be_v administer_v and_o give_v by_o they_o who_o have_v also_o power_n to_o command_v not_o every_o one_o indeed_o as_o may_v advise_v and_o counsel_n may_v forth_o with_o command_n and_o enjoin_v nevertheless_o counsel_n and_o command_n be_v not_o so_o repugnant_a but_o that_o they_o who_o may_v command_v may_v also_o advise_v paul_n have_v power_n to_o command_v and_o enjoin_v phylâ—mon_a to_o do_v what_o be_v convenient_a and_o yet_o for_o love_n sake_n will_v rather_o beseech_v he_o philem_n 8._o 9_o the_o lord_n jesus_n to_o doubt_n have_v absolute_a authority_n to_o command_v and_o yet_o we_o find_v he_o sometime_o speak_v to_o the_o son_n of_o man_n by_o way_n of_o counsel_n or_o advise_v revel_v 3._o â—8_o i_o counsel_v thou_o to_o buy_v of_o i_o gold_n that_o thou_o may_v he_o rich_a etc._n etc._n shall_v we_o now_o infer_v from_o hence_o that_o the_o power_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v and_o that_o his_o power_n can_v amount_v to_o the_o nature_n of_o a_o command_n i_o suppose_v we_o will_v be_v afraid_a and_o abhor_v to_o deduce_v such_o a_o consequence_n and_o therefore_o though_o a_o synod_n may_v advise_v yet_o their_o power_n to_o command_v which_o be_v more_o than_o mere_a counsel_n and_o advise_v be_v not_o from_o thence_o conclude_v to_o be_v null_a and_o so_o much_o for_o master_n rutherford_n his_o second_o place_n wherein_o he_o deal_v against_o the_o answer_n chap._n iii_o of_o the_o assembly_n act._n 15._o whether_o they_o do_v exercise_v any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n against_o the_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n and_o whether_o their_o rebuke_v of_o they_o do_v argue_v the_o affirmative_a in_o his_o page_n 388._o he_o lay_v down_o this_o as_o a_o 2d._o object_n viz._n that_o there_o be_v no_o censure_v of_o person_n for_o scandal_n and_o that_o meeting_n act_n 15._o because_o there_o be_v nothing_o there_o but_o a_o doctrinal_a declaration_n of_o the_o falsehood_n of_o their_o opinion_n who_o teach_v the_o necessity_n of_o circumcision_n and_o that_o all_o be_v do_v by_o way_n of_o doctrine_n and_o by_o power_n of_o the_o key_n of_o knowledge_n not_o of_o jurisdiction_n be_v clear_a from_o the_o end_n of_o the_o meeting_n which_o be_v verse_n 2_o &_o 6._o to_o consider_v of_o that_o question_n consideration_n of_o question_n be_v the_o end_n of_o the_o synod_n be_v a_o thing_n belong_v to_o doctrinal_a power_n mere_o and_o then_o he_o subjoin_v my_o name_n and_o in_o the_o margin_n allege_v the_o answer_n chap._n 1._o page_n 8._o ans_fw-fr whereto_o i_o first_o of_o all_o return_n this_o answer_n first_o that_o the_o thing_n here_o in_o question_n be_v about_o the_o power_n of_o that_o meeting_n act_v 15._o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o the_o place_n allege_v by_o master_n rutherford_n that_o can_v warrant_v he_o to_o frame_v such_o a_o objection_n under_o master_n tompsons_n name_n and_o i_o as_o proceed_v from_o we_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o that_o meeting_n act_v 15_o be_v not_o mention_v at_o all_o in_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v neither_o for_o that_o purpose_n which_o he_o set_v down_o nor_o for_o any_o other_o much_o loss_n be_v the_o objection_n we_o in_o terminis_fw-la now_o to_o frame_v a_o objection_n and_o to_o allege_v chapter_n and_o page_n for_o proof_n that_o the_o objection_n be_v we_o when_o as_o neither_o page_n nor_o chapter_n aleadge_v do_v speak_v any_o thing_n at_o all_o of_o that_o matter_n what_o reason_n can_v be_v give_v for_o this_o i_o know_v not_o nevertheless_o because_o the_o matter_n contain_v in_o the_o objection_n do_v not_o much_o differ_v from_o my_o apprehension_n and_o judgement_n and_o something_o in_o the_o answer_n elsewhere_o may_v possible_o intimate_v such_o a_o thing_n though_o but_o brief_o touch_v i_o will_v therefore_o consider_v of_o what_o he_o say_v for_o remove_v the_o objection_n as_o himself_o have_v propound_v the_o same_o it_o be_v false_a say_v he_o that_o there_o be_v no_o censure_v of_o person_n here_o for_o it_o be_v more_o than_o evident_a that_o the_o public_a synodical_a censure_n of_o rebuke_n be_v put_v upon_o those_o who_o hold_v and_o urge_v the_o necessity_n of_o circumcision_n and_o why_o not_o excommunication_n also_o in_o case_n of_o obstinacy_n for_o the_o synodical_a censure_n of_o a_o public_a synodical_a rebuke_n be_v only_o gradual_o different_a not_o specifical_o from_o excommunication_n &_o both_o must_v proceed_v from_o ouâ—_n &_o the_o same_o power_n so_o then_o the_o sum_n be_v the_o synod_n have_v power_n of_o rebuke_v and_o therefore_o of_o excommunication_n also_o answ_n the_o consequence_n be_v not_o clear_a for_o who_o know_v not_o that_o there_o may_v be_v power_n to_o rebuke_v where_o there_o be_v no_o power_n of_o excommunication_n be_v it_o not_o the_o express_a law_n of_o god_n that_o every_o man_n shall_v plain_o rebuke_v his_o neighbour_n and_o not_o suffer_v sin_n upon_o he_o levit._n 19_o 17_o and_o be_v not_o our_o 〈◊〉_d word_n as_o plain_a if_o thy_o brother_n trespasle_n against_o thou_o rebuke_v he_o and_o if_o he_o repent_v forgive_v he_o luke_n 17._o 3_o whereby_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o one_o particular_a person_n have_v power_n by_o the_o law_n of_o god_n and_o christ_n to_o put_v a_o rebuke_n upon_o another_o if_o there_o be_v occasion_n for_o it_o but_o will_v it_o follow_v hereupon_o that_o one_o particular_a christian_a have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v another_o in_o case_n of_o obstinacy_n i_o suppose_v master_n rutherford_n will_v not_o say_v so_o and_o yet_o unless_o this_o be_v say_v i_o know_v not_o how_o his_o consequence_n can_v be_v make_v good_a that_o if_o a_o synod_n may_v rebuke_v they_o may_v excommunicate_v also_o i_o know_v indeed_o he_o say_v the_o synodical_a rebuke_n be_v only_o gradual_o different_a from_o excommunication_n and_o not_o specifical_o and_o that_o both_o must_v proceed_v from_o one_o and_o the_o same_o power_n but_o this_o will_v require_v some_o proof_n and_o shall_v not_o naked_o be_v affirm_v without_o any_o proof_n at_o all_o for_o of_o itself_o it_o be_v not_o evident_a that_o where_o â—ver_o there_o be_v power_n to_o rebuke_v there_o be_v power_n of_o excommunication_n also_o the_o contrary_n i_o suppose_v be_v evident_a from_o that_o which_o have_v already_o be_v say_v from_o levit._n 19_o 17._o and_o luke_n 17._o 3._o and_o from_o many_o other_o scripture_n and_o reason_n which_o show_v that_o one_o man_n alone_o have_v power_n to_o rebuke_v who_o can_v for_o that_o be_v conclude_v to_o have_v any_o power_n of_o excommunication_n i_o know_v the_o learned_a mâ—n_z be_v copious_a in_o prove_v from_o the_o word_n of_o verse_n 24._o certain_a man_n go_v from_o we_o and_o have_v trouble_v you_o with_o word_n subvert_v your_o soul_n etc._n etc._n that_o this_o assembly_n do_v not_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n confute_v the_o false_a opinion_n and_o doctrine_n of_o these_o teacher_n of_o
circumcision_n but_o do_v also_o rebuke_v they_o for_o another_o fault_n to_o wit_n their_o obtrude_a their_o false_a way_n upon_o the_o soul_n and_o conscience_n of_o other_o and_o for_o their_o wilful_a and_o obstinate_a uphold_v that_o opinion_n and_o raise_v a_o schism_n in_o the_o church_n but_o if_o all_o this_o be_v grant_v his_o purpose_n be_v not_o gain_v thereby_o unless_o he_o will_v prove_v that_o which_o he_o do_v but_o only_o affirm_v to_o wit_n that_o a_o synodical_a rebuke_n be_v not_o specifical_o different_a but_o only_a gradual_o from_o excommunication_n and_o that_o both_o must_v proceed_v from_o the_o same_o power_n which_o yeâ—_n he_o have_v not_o prove_v at_o all_o but_o say_v he_o i_o argue_v thus_o if_o the_o apostle_n do_v not_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n refute_v a_o false_a doctrine_n in_o this_o synod_n but_o also_o in_o church_n way_n and_o by_o a_o juridical_a power_n do_v rebuke_n and_o synodical_o charge_v the_o author_n as_o subverter_n of_o soul_n and_o liar_n than_o they_o do_v not_o only_o use_v a_o mere_a doctrinal_a power_n in_o this_o synod_n but_o also_o a_o juridical_a power_n but_o the_o former_a be_v true_a ergo_fw-la so_o be_v the_o latter_a answ_n with_o favour_n of_o so_o learned_a a_o man_n i_o think_v this_o kind_n of_o argue_v be_v but_o a_o beg_n of_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n and_o a_o prove_v of_o idem_fw-la per_fw-la idem_fw-la for_o if_o the_o synod_n do_v not_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n refute_v a_o false_a doctrine_n but_o also_o by_o a_o juridical_a power_n rebuke_v the_o author_n of_o it_o than_o it_o must_v needs_o be_v true_a indeed_o that_o they_o do_v not_o only_o use_v a_o doctrinal_a power_n but_o also_o a_o juridical_a power_n that_o be_v if_o they_o do_v so_o they_o do_v so_o if_o they_o do_v use_v such_o power_n they_o do_v use_v it_o but_o there_o still_o lie_v the_o question_n whether_o they_o do_v so_o or_o no_o and_o whether_o they_o do_v use_v such_o power_n or_o not_o and_o this_o kind_n of_o argue_v do_v not_o clear_v it_o all_o if_o we_o on_o the_o contrary_n shall_v argue_v thus_o if_o this_o assembly_n do_v not_o put_v forth_o any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n or_o discipline_n but_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n conâ—ute_v a_o false_a doctrine_n and_o rebuke_v the_o author_n of_o it_o than_o they_o do_v only_o put_v forth_o a_o doctrinal_a power_n and_o not_o any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n one_o of_o far_o less_o ability_n than_o our_o learned_a author_n will_v soon_o espy_v the_o looseness_n of_o such_o reason_n at_o least_o himself_o we_o doubt_v not_o will_v soon_o espy_v it_o for_o sometime_o we_o hear_v he_o say_v friend_n your_o logic_n be_v naught_o page_n 177._o and_o yet_o be_v it_o speak_v without_o offence_n the_o logic_n which_o himself_o do_v here_o use_n be_v not_o so_o good_a as_o to_o be_v altogether_o without_o fault_n no_o not_o for_o the_o form_n of_o it_o and_o therefore_o we_o do_v not_o see_v how_o any_o thing_n can_v be_v conclude_v thereby_o but_o to_o leave_v this_o mistake_n and_o to_o consider_v of_o the_o matter_n itself_o if_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o this_o assembly_n do_v not_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n consute_n a_o false_a doctrine_n but_o also_o rebuke_v the_o author_n thereof_o must_v it_o need_v follow_v that_o this_o rebuke_v be_v do_v in_o a_o juridical_a way_n be_v there_o no_o rebuke_v of_o offender_n for_o their_o fault_n but_o only_o in_o a_o way_n of_o â—â—â—â—ction_n and_o discipline_n i_o suppose_v much_o need_v not_o to_o be_v say_v for_o the_o clear_n the_o truth_n to_o be_v otherwise_o for_o master_n rutherford_n himself_o confess_v page_n 394._o that_o there_o be_v great_a odds_o to_o do_v one_o and_o the_o same_o action_n material_o and_o to_o do_v the_o same_o formal_o and_o page_n 393._o that_o one_o apostle_n might_n himself_o alone_o have_v rebuke_v these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n which_o be_v so_o it_o follow_v thereupon_o that_o though_o this_o synod_n to_o call_v it_o so_o act._n 15._o have_v a_o doctrinal_a power_n yea_o and_o a_o power_n of_o rebuke_v these_o false_a teacher_n yet_o the_o thing_n that_o he_o from_o thence_o will_v infer_v viz._n their_o power_n of_o rebuke_v in_o a_o juridical_a way_n and_o their_o power_n of_o excommunication_n these_o be_v neither_o of_o they_o prove_v thereby_o for_o if_o it_o shall_v be_v say_v that_o though_o rebuke_v do_v not_o always_o imply_v juridical_a power_n yet_o if_o it_o be_v a_o synod_n that_o do_v rebuke_v than_o the_o power_n here_o speak_v of_o may_v be_v conclude_v thence_o to_o be_v in_o a_o synod_n the_o answer_n be_v that_o this_o will_v not_o help_v at_o all_o because_o this_o be_v nothing_o but_o the_o bring_n in_o of_o another_o efficient_a viz._n the_o synod_n for_o effect_v or_o act_v the_o same_o effect_n now_o master_n rutherford_n confess_v pag._n 393._o that_o he_o do_v not_o fetch_v the_o specification_n of_o this_o rebuke_n and_o of_o those_o decree_n from_o the_o efficient_a cause_n and_o give_v that_o for_o his_o reason_n which_o to_o i_o be_v unanswerable_a to_o wit_n because_o one_o apostle_n might_n himself_o alone_o have_v rebuke_v these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n and_o in_o the_o page_n next_o ensue_v he_o confess_v also_o that_o action_n have_v not_o by_o good_a logic_n their_o total_a specification_n from_o the_o efficient_a cause_n which_o be_v so_o then_o though_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o any_o synod_n may_v and_o that_o this_o synod_n do_v perform_v this_o action_n of_o rebuke_v yet_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n to_o wit_n that_o the_o power_n of_o a_o synod_n be_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o of_o excommunication_n be_v not_o at_o all_o gain_v thereby_o at_o the_o least_o wise_a to_o end_v this_o passage_n this_o i_o may_v say_v that_o if_o this_o reverend_a brother_n will_v be_v true_a to_o his_o own_o principle_n and_o not_o gainsay_v what_o himself_o have_v already_o write_v he_o for_o his_o part_n can_v conclude_v the_o synod_n power_n to_o excommunicate_v from_o this_o argument_n of_o their_o power_n to_o rebuke_v nor_o yet_o from_o any_o other_o argument_n whatsoever_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o he_o do_v elsewhere_o confess_v that_o synod_n be_v not_o to_o excommunicate_v any_o and_o not_o this_o synod_n in_o particular_a to_o excommunicate_v these_o false_a teacher_n but_o to_o remit_v the_o censure_v of_o they_o to_o other_o church_n command_v they_o to_o do_v it_o his_o word_n as_o they_o be_v to_o be_v see_v in_o his_o page_n 413._o be_v these_o viz._n i_o can_v easy_o yield_v that_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n of_o the_o elicit_v act_n of_o many_o part_n of_o government_n such_o as_o excommunication_n ordination_n admit_v of_o heathen_n profess_v the_o faith_n to_o church-membership_a in_o synod_n provincicall_a national_n or_o ecumenical_a but_o that_o synod_n in_o the_o ease_n of_o neglect_n of_o presbyterycall_a church_n command_v these_o particular_a church_n who_o it_o concern_v to_o do_v their_o duty_n and_o in_o this_o sense_n act._n 15._o be_v to_o remit_v the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n to_o the_o presbytery_n of_o antioch_n and_o jerusalem_n in_o case_n of_o the_o obstinacy_n of_o these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n in_o which_o word_n we_o have_v two_o thing_n concern_v excommunication_n to_o omit_v other_o particular_n first_o that_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n that_o synod_n shall_v excommunicate_v any_o but_o only_o command_v the_o church_n to_o do_v their_o duty_n therein_o second_o in_o particular_a concern_v that_o synod_n act_v 15._o that_o they_o be_v to_o remit_v the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n to_o the_o presbytery_n of_o antioch_n and_o jerusalem_n in_o case_n of_o the_o obstinacy_n of_o these_o obtruder_n or_o circumcision_n which_o particular_n be_v most_o true_a as_o i_o for_o my_o part_n so_o esteem_v of_o they_o it_o follow_v thereupon_o that_o what_o master_n rutherford_n say_v in_o this_o place_n we_o have_v now_o in_o hand_n be_v great_o weaken_v thereby_o for_o how_o both_o these_o can_v stand_v together_o that_o this_o synod_n shall_v have_v power_n not_o only_o to_o rebuke_v but_o to_o excommunicate_v these_o false_a teacher_n and_o yet_o neither_o provincial_n national_n nor_o ecumenical_a synod_n to_o excommunicate_v any_o nor_o this_o synod_n in_o particular_a to_o excommunicate_v these_o false_a teacher_n but_o to_o remit_v the_o censure_n to_o other_o church_n to_o who_o it_o concern_v command_v they_o to_o do_v it_o how_o these_o thing_n i_o say_v can_v stand_v together_o i_o for_o my_o part_n be_o not_o able_a to_o understand_v chap._n four_o of_o the_o dogmatic_a power_n of_o synod_n and_o of_o the_o power_n of_o congregation_n to_o determine_v matter_n among_o themselves_o if_o ability_n serve_v thereto_o in_o his_o page_n 396._o allege_v
mr._n tompsons_n name_n and_o i_o and_o chap._n 1._o page_n 9_o of_o the_o answer_n he_o say_v we_o there_o teach_v that_o there_o be_v a_o power_n of_o clear_n truth_n dogmatical_o &_o that_o ultimate_o where_o the_o controversy_n be_v end_v but_o he_o say_v we_o will_v have_v this_o vltimate_a power_n not_o in_o a_o synod_n only_o but_o also_o in_o a_o congregation_n and_o then_o no_o answer_v three_o thing_n which_o there_o ensue_v answ_n our_o word_n be_v these_o by_o power_n of_o decree_n we_o understand_v power_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o truth_n dogmatical_o for_o the_o word_n translate_v decree_n be_v dogmata_fw-la in_o the_o original_a act._n 16._o 4._o and_o this_o power_n we_o confess_v be_v in_o a_o synod_n though_o not_o all_o in_o a_o synod_n alone_o but_o also_o in_o the_o presbytery_n of_o a_o single_a congregation_n now_o these_o bring_v our_o word_n if_o therefore_o this_o reverend_a brother_n will_v overthrow_v our_o tenent_n in_o this_o particular_a he_o shall_v have_v prove_v that_o there_o be_v not_o any_o power_n as_o all_o in_o the_o presbytery_n of_o a_o single_a congregation_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o truth_n dogmatical_o this_o indeed_o have_v be_v direct_o contrary_a to_o what_o we_o teach_v but_o this_o be_v neither_o prove_v nor_o once_o attempt_v to_o prove_v and_o therefore_o our_o tenent_n herein_o do_v yet_o stand_v good_a for_o any_o thing_n he_o have_v say_v to_o the_o contrary_n and_o no_o marvel_n siâ—h_v the_o express_a word_n of_o the_o text_n do_v witness_v that_o every_o bishop_n have_v power_n and_o be_v boand_v by_o his_o office_n and_o duty_n by_o sound_a doctrine_n both_o to_o exhort_v and_o convince_v gainsayet_n tit._n 1._o 9_o and_o according_o the_o presbytery_n of_o antioch_n do_v labour_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o truth_n in_o that_o controversy_n about_o circumcision_n and_o have_v much_o disputation_n about_o it_o among_o themselves_o afore_o there_o be_v any_o speech_n of_o send_v to_o jerusalem_n for_o help_v act._n 15._o 2._o which_o show_v that_o they_o have_v power_n or_o right_a to_o have_v clear_v the_o matter_n among_o themselves_o if_o ability_n have_v serve_v or_o else_o this_o endeavour_n have_v be_v sinful_a as_o be_v a_o attempt_v to_o do_v that_o whereto_o they_o have_v no_o right_n so_o that_o for_o aught_o we_o yet_o so_o the_o power_n that_o we_o speak_v of_o and_o which_o we_o hold_v to_o be_v in_o the_o presbytery_n of_o a_o congregation_n be_v there_o indeed_o by_o the_o appointment_n of_o the_o lord_n but_o let_v we_o hear_v master_n rutherford_n answer_v first_o say_v he_o they_o seem_v to_o make_v this_o dogmatic_a power_n a_o church_n power_n and_o the_o exercise_n thereof_o formal_o a_o act_n of_o church_n government_n and_o so_o it_o must_v be_v church_n power_n and_o church_n government_n in_o the_o synod_n as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o congregation_n answ_n whence_o do_v it_o seem_v that_o we_o do_v so_o make_v it_o be_v there_o any_o such_o word_n as_o here_o he_o set_v down_o or_o any_o word_n equivalent_a thereto_o or_o do_v the_o place_n make_v any_o mention_n of_o church-power_n and_o church_n government_n at_o all_o or_o be_v there_o so_o much_o as_o one_o word_n that_o look_v that_o way_n if_o there_o be_v let_v our_o brother_n say_v that_o we_o seem_v to_o â—each_v as_o he_o do_v report_n but_o if_o there_o be_v not_o we_o be_v sorry_a he_o shall_v report_v we_o to_o teach_v oâ—_n seem_v to_o teach_v that_o which_o to_o our_o remembrance_n we_o never_o say_v nor_o think_v and_o sure_o it_o be_v we_o have_v express_o say_v the_o direct_a contrary_n in_o page_n 7_o the_o page_n next_o save_v one_o afore_o this_o which_o here_o he_o be_v deal_v against_o where_o we_o have_v these_o word_n it_o seem_v to_o we_o say_v we_o that_o this_o power_n viz._n by_o disquisition_n and_o disputation_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n and_o then_o to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o be_v not_o proper_o a_o power_n and_o exercise_v of_o government_n and_o jurisdiction_n but_o a_o power_n of_o doctrine_n and_o so_o a_o synod_n be_v rather_o a_o teach_n then_o a_o govern_v church_n these_o be_v our_o word_n in_o the_o page_n afore_o allege_a wherein_o we_o plain_o express_v what_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n seem_v unto_o we_o to_o be_v even_o the_o direct_a contrary_a to_o that_o which_o he_o say_v we_o seem_v to_o make_v it_o we_o on_o the_o one_o side_n affirm_v and_o express_v that_o it_o seem_v to_o we_o the_o power_n of_o a_o synod_n be_v no_o power_n of_o government_n and_o jurisdiction_n but_o a_o power_n of_o doctrine_n and_o he_o on_o the_o other_o side_n report_v that_o we_o seem_v to_o make_v the_o exercise_n of_o dogmatic_a power_n to_o be_v formal_o a_o act_n of_o church-government_n and_o so_o to_o place_v church-government_n in_o the_o synod_n in_o which_o report_n we_o must_v needs_o say_v we_o be_v plain_o misreported_n his_o second_o answer_n be_v this_o the_o last_o period_n and_o conclusion_n of_o the_o controversy_n can_v be_v both_o in_o the_o congregation_n by_o right_a only_o and_o in_o the_o synod_n by_o right_a only_o for_o two_o last_o power_n can_v be_v proper_o in_o two_o subordinate_a judicature_n answ_n this_o be_v very_o true_a but_o it_o touch_v not_o we_o at_o all_o for_o we_o never_o say_v the_o last_o period_n of_o the_o controversy_n be_v both_o in_o the_o congregation_n only_o and_o in_o the_o synod_n only_o if_o we_o have_v so_o say_v let_v the_o place_n be_v produce_v where_o we_o have_v say_v it_o for_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v do_v afford_v we_o no_o such_o thing_n nor_o any_o place_n else_o that_o we_o know_v of_o all_o that_o the_o place_n afford_v concern_v this_o point_n be_v only_o this_o that_o there_o be_v a_o power_n of_o clear_n the_o truth_n dogmatical_o in_o a_o synod_n though_o not_o in_o a_o synod_n only_o but_o also_o in_o the_o presbytery_n of_o a_o single_a congregation_n and_o this_o doctrine_n i_o hope_v our_o brother_n will_v not_o deny_v but_o whether_o this_o power_n be_v last_o in_o the_o synod_n or_o in_o the_o congregationall_a presbytery_n of_o this_o we_o do_v not_o speak_v at_o all_o much_o less_o do_v we_o say_v as_o he_o do_v apprehend_v and_o report_v that_o this_o power_n be_v both_o last_o in_o the_o synod_n and_o last_o in_o the_o congregation_n too_o wherefore_o our_o defence_n in_o this_o particular_a must_v needs_o be_v this_o that_o what_o here_o he_o confute_v to_o be_v out_v be_v such_o a_o thing_n as_o never_o fall_v from_o our_o mouth_n or_o pen_n nor_o for_o aught_o we_o know_v do_v never_o enter_v into_o our_o thought_n three_o he_o say_v if_o a_o controversy_n concern_v many_o congregation_n as_o this_o do_v act._n 15._o i_o see_v not_o how_o a_o congregation_n except_o they_o transgress_v their_o line_n can_v final_o determine_v it_o answ_n neither_o do_v this_o touch_v we_o except_o we_o have_v say_v that_o a_o congregation_n may_v final_o determine_v controversy_n which_o concern_v many_o church_n which_o yet_o we_o have_v not_o say_v as_o for_o that_o controversy_n act._n 15._o it_o be_v plain_a from_o verse_n 2_o that_o antioch_n do_v endeavour_v to_o have_v end_v it_o among_o themselves_o so_o far_o as_o they_o be_v trouble_v therewith_o for_o some_o teach_n that_o corrupt_a doctrine_n among_o they_o they_o have_v much_o disputation_n about_o the_o point_n afore_o they_o determine_v to_o send_v out_o for_o help_v elsewhere_o now_o to_o what_o end_n be_v thus_o much_o disputation_n if_o they_o have_v no_o right_a to_o determine_v the_o matter_n may_v they_o not_o better_o have_v spare_v their_o pain_n or_o do_v they_o not_o transgress_v their_o line_n in_o attempt_v what_o they_o do_v attempt_v sure_o it_o seem_v they_o do_v if_o they_o have_v not_o right_a to_o determine_v the_o matter_n but_o for_o our_o part_n since_o we_o do_v not_o find_v they_o in_o the_o least_o reprove_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n for_o this_o attempt_n therefore_o we_o can_v but_o think_v they_o do_v well_o therein_o and_o thereupon_o it_o follow_v that_o if_o antioch_n be_v a_o congregationall_a church_n as_o it_o seem_v to_o we_o it_o be_v from_o act._n 14._o 27._o either_o this_o controversy_n do_v trouble_v no_o church_n but_o antioch_n only_o or_o else_o when_o a_o controversy_n or_o corrupt_a opinion_n do_v trouble_v many_o church_n one_o of_o they_o may_v lawful_o determine_v and_o end_v it_o so_o far_o at_o it_o concern_v themselves_o chap._n v._n again_o of_o that_o assembly_n act._n 15._o whether_o their_o rebuke_v the_o false_a teacher_n do_v prove_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o excommunication_n in_o synod_n and_o whether_o preach_v do_v prove_v the_o assembly_n where_o it_o be_v to_o be_v a_o church_n the_o new_a place_n where_o i_o find_v he_o except_v
synod_n we_o be_v not_o to_o be_v blame_v though_o we_o give_v not_o a_o synod_n that_o name_n answ_n pag._n 1._o the_o most_o that_o we_o have_v yield_v in_o this_o point_n be_v this_o that_o for_o the_o name_n we_o will_v not_o contend_v and_o that_o if_o a_o synod_n may_v be_v call_v a_o church_n then_o since_o they_o have_v power_n by_o disputation_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n they_o be_v rather_o a_o teach_v then_o a_o govern_v church_n answer_n pag._n 1._o &_o 7._o this_o be_v all_o we_o have_v say_v and_o we_o desire_v our_o word_n may_v not_o be_v stretch_v beyond_o our_o intent_n and_o scope_n therein_o but_o let_v we_o hear_v what_o our_o brother_n will_v hence_o infer_v i_o infer_v say_v he_o that_o synodical_a teach_n by_o give_v out_o decree_v tie_v many_o church_n as_o our_o brethren_n of_o new-england_n and_o the_o forename_a author_n teach_v be_v a_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n that_o can_v be_v perform_v in_o no_o single_a congregation_n on_o earth_n for_o a_o doctrinal_a cannon_n of_o one_o congregation_n can_v lay_v any_o ecclesiastical_a tie_n upon_o many_o church_n ergo_fw-la by_o this_o reason_n our_o congregation_n shall_v be_v dependent_a as_o be_v the_o jewish_a synagogue_n answ_n when_o he_o say_v the_o brethren_n of_o new-england_n and_o the_o author_n of_o the_o answer_n do_v teach_v a_o synodical_a teach_n by_o give_v out_o decree_v tie_v many_o church_n and_o aledge_v for_o proof_n in_o his_o margin_n answ_n 7._o to_o 32._o q._n 9_o 14._o page_n 43_o 44._o and_o answer_v to_o mr._n herle_v chap._n 4._o pag._n 40._o 41_o with_o favour_n of_o so_o learned_a a_o man_n we_o must_v return_v this_o answer_n that_o neither_o of_o the_o palces_fw-la allege_v will_v make_v good_a his_o purpose_n in_o as_o much_o as_o neither_o of_o they_o do_v make_v any_o mention_n at_o all_o of_o the_o thing_n which_o he_o report_v they_o to_o teach_v viz._n such_o synodical_a teach_n as_o give_v out_o decree_v tie_v many_o church_n let_v the_o place_n be_v view_v and_o the_o thing_n will_v be_v find_v as_o i_o say_v and_o therefore_o how_o they_o can_v be_v say_v to_o teach_v that_o which_o they_o neither_o teach_v nor_o mention_v do_v surmount_v my_o ability_n to_o conceive_v if_o the_o reader_n will_v know_v what_o it_o be_v that_o be_v teach_v in_o the_o place_n it_o be_v no_o more_o but_o this_o that_o in_o some_o case_n it_o be_v requisite_a that_o church_n shall_v seek_v for_o light_n and_o counsel_n and_o advice_n from_o other_o church_n as_o antioch_n do_v send_v unto_o jerusalem_n in_o a_o question_n which_o they_o want_v ability_n to_o determine_v among_o themselves_o and_o that_o there_o ought_v to_o be_v synod_n and_o that_o we_o think_v that_o meeting_n act_n 15._o might_n be_v such_o a_o one_o the_o first_o of_o these_o be_v teach_v in_o the_o formâ—â—_n of_o the_o place_n and_o the_o other_o in_o the_o other_o but_o for_o give_v out_o synodical_a decree_n tie_v many_o church_n this_o same_o be_v it_o within_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n or_o otherwise_o be_v 〈◊〉_d teach_v at_o all_o in_o either_o of_o the_o place_n except_o we_o shall_v say_v which_o we_o think_v be_v unreasonable_a that_o there_o can_v be_v no_o synod_n nor_o consult_v of_o other_o church_n for_o light_n and_o counsel_n and_o advice_n but_o there_o must_v be_v in_o those_o other_o church_n so_o consult_v withal_o a_o power_n to_o give_v out_o bind_v decree_n yea_o decree_n that_o shall_v bind_v or_o tie_v many_o church_n we_o think_v this_o latter_a do_v no_o way_n necessary_o follow_v upon_o the_o former_a and_o therefore_o though_o the_o place_n allege_v do_v speak_v to_o the_o former_a yet_o the_o latter_a which_o this_o author_n report_v they_o to_o teach_v they_o do_v not_o teach_v at_o all_o second_o i_o answer_v further_o that_o if_o such_o a_o doctrine_n be_v indeed_o teach_v in_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v or_o any_o other_o yet_o the_o inference_n which_o he_o will_v thence_o bring_v in_o that_o then_o our_o congregation_n shall_v be_v dependent_a as_o be_v the_o jewish_a synagogue_n thâ—s_v same_o do_v not_o follow_v at_o all_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o the_o synagogue_n be_v dependent_a on_o the_o supreme_a synedrion_n not_o only_o for_o light_n and_o counsel_n no_o nor_o only_o for_o doctrinal_a cannon_n or_o decree_n but_o also_o for_o jurisdiction_n and_o discipline_n that_o synodrion_n be_v their_o supreme_a court_n to_o who_o sentence_n they_o be_v all_o bind_v under_o pain_n of_o death_n to_o submit_v as_o be_v clear_a deut._n 17._o 11_o 12._o and_o therefore_o if_o it_o be_v grant_v which_o yet_o we_o do_v not_o see_v prove_v that_o synod_n may_v give_v out_o decree_n and_o doctrinal_a cannon_n that_o shall_v tie_v many_o church_n it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o our_o congregation_n shall_v therefore_o be_v dependent_a as_o be_v the_o jewish_a synagogue_n except_o it_o be_v also_o prove_v that_o they_o must_v depend_v upon_o synod_n in_o point_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o discipline_n as_o well_o as_o in_o point_n of_o doctrine_n yea_o and_o so_o depend_v as_o that_o the_o sentence_n of_o those_o synod_n must_v be_v obey_v under_o pain_n of_o death_n sure_o the_o synagogue_n and_o every_o member_n of_o they_o be_v in_o this_o sort_n dependent_a upon_o the_o supreme_a synedrion_fw-mi but_o we_o hope_v 〈◊〉_d reverend_a brother_n will_v not_o say_v that_o congregation_n must_v in_o this_o sort_n be_v dependent_a upon_o synod_n at_o the_o least_o wise_a this_o we_o hope_v he_o will_v not_o deny_v that_o every_o member_n of_o a_o church_n be_v bind_v to_o depend_v upon_o the_o pastor_n of_o that_o church_n in_o point_n of_o doctrine_n and_o yet_o it_o will_v not_o follow_v that_o he_o must_v depend_v upon_o one_o pastor_n alone_o in_o point_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o discipline_n and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o doctrine_n may_v be_v dispense_v by_o one_o pastor_n alone_o but_o discipline_n must_v be_v dispense_v by_o a_o church_n which_o one_o pastor_n alone_o can_v be_v and_o therefore_o if_o congregation_n be_v to_o be_v dependent_a upon_o synod_n in_o point_n of_o doctrine_n it_o will_v not_o follow_v that_o they_o must_v be_v dependent_a in_o point_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o discipline_n three_o say_v he_o it_o be_v a_o beg_n of_o the_o question_n to_o make_v jerusalem_n the_o supreme_a church_n and_o the_o synagogue_n dependent_a church_n because_o it_o it_o be_v lawful_a only_o at_o jerusalem_n to_o sacrifice_n for_o i_o hold_v that_o jerusalem_n be_v a_o dependent_a church_n no_o less_o than_o the_o small_a synagogue_n in_o all_o their_o trybe_n and_o so_o he_o proceed_v large_o to_o show_v that_o sacrifice_a at_o jerusalem_n do_v not_o make_v jerusalem_n supreme_a answ_n it_o this_o be_v even_o so_o as_o be_v plead_v yet_o that_o which_o we_o have_v say_v of_o the_o completeness_n of_o the_o synagogue_n and_o of_o their_o dependency_n be_v not_o at_o all_o remove_v thereby_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o we_o do_v not_o make_v the_o synagogue_n dependent_a nor_o jerusalem_n supreme_a mere_o upon_o this_o ground_n because_o jerusalem_n alone_o be_v the_o place_n of_o sacrifice_v but_o this_o be_v the_o ground_n upon_o which_o chief_o we_o go_v that_o at_o jerusalem_n be_v the_o synedrion_fw-mi upon_o who_o all_o israel_n must_v depend_v for_o judgement_n and_o from_o who_o sentence_n there_o be_v no_o appeal_n which_o ground_n we_o still_o think_v do_v prove_v both_o the_o incomplearnesse_n of_o the_o synagogue_n and_o the_o supremacy_n of_o the_o synedrion_fw-mi and_o the_o contrary_a to_o this_o must_v be_v clear_v if_o our_o tenent_n in_o this_o matter_n be_v remove_v true_a it_o be_v we_o think_v it_o some_o argument_n of_o the_o synagogue_n incompleatnesse_n and_o imperfection_n that_o they_o be_v not_o permit_v to_o enjoy_v all_o the_o ordinance_n which_o be_v of_o ordinary_a use_n but_o the_o supremacy_n of_o jerusalem_n we_o do_v not_o place_n in_o this_o only_a that_o there_o be_v the_o place_n for_o sacrifice_n but_o in_o this_o withal_o that_o the_o supreme_a judicatory_a be_v there_o upon_o which_o all_o israel_n must_v depend_v and_o from_o the_o which_o there_o must_v be_v no_o appeal_n and_o yet_o this_o supremacy_n we_o do_v not_o place_n in_o jerusalem_n consider_v a_o part_n from_o the_o synedrion_fw-mi but_o in_o the_o synedrion_n itself_o and_o therefore_o whereas_o he_o say_v pag._n 415._o that_o we_o may_v as_o well_o conclude_v that_o all_o the_o city_n and_o incorporation_n of_o england_n be_v dependent_a upon_o london_n inasmuch_o as_o the_o parliament_n use_v there_o to_o sit_v i_o conceive_v the_o comparison_n do_v not_o suit_n because_o as_o we_o do_v not_o place_v the_o supremacy_n in_o london_n or_o in_o westminster_n consider_v apart_o from_o the_o parliament_n but_o in_o the_o parliament_n which_o use_v
congregation_n or_o the_o congregation_n will_v be_v partial_a and_o unjust_a or_o when_o the_o business_n be_v difficile_a and_o intricate_a than_o we_o may_v appeal_v from_o the_o congregation_n else_o we_o may_v not_o these_o thing_n i_o say_v do_v not_o clear_v the_o matter_n at_o all_o because_o still_o the_o question_n remain_v who_o must_v be_v judge_n of_o these_o thing_n whether_o the_o party_n appeal_n or_o the_o congregation_n from_o who_o or_o the_o synod_n to_o who_o the_o appeal_n be_v make_v and_o unless_o this_o be_v determine_v the_o thing_n mention_v allege_v by_o our_o brother_n do_v afford_v we_o small_a help_n in_o the_o matter_n for_o the_o clear_n of_o it_o and_o therefore_o what_o we_o say_v in_o the_o answer_n do_v still_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v remain_v sound_n viz._n that_o there_o must_v be_v some_o final_a and_o supreme_a judgement_n that_o controversy_n may_v not_o by_o appeal_n after_o appeal_n be_v spin_v out_o in_o infinitum_fw-la and_o to_o determine_v where_o that_o supremacy_n do_v lie_v be_v the_o main_a question_n which_o unless_o it_o be_v determine_v the_o usefulness_n of_o appeal_n may_v be_v grant_v and_o yet_o we_o shall_v be_v still_o at_o uncertainty_n about_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n and_o as_o much_o to_o seek_v as_o before_o because_o that_o there_o ought_v to_o be_v appeal_n till_o you_o come_v to_o the_o high_a be_v one_o thing_n and_o that_o a_o synod_n and_o nâ—t_v the_o congregation_n be_v the_o high_a be_v another_o now_o whether_o our_o brother_n in_o that_o which_o we_o have_v hitherto_o hear_v have_v sufficient_o clear_v it_o unto_o we_o that_o we_o may_v know_v where_o this_o supremacy_n do_v lie_v i_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o judicious_a to_o consider_v chap._n viii_o whether_o antioch_n act._n 15._o have_v right_a to_o have_v end_v the_o controversy_n among_o themselves_o if_o they_o have_v be_v able_a and_o whether_o their_o send_n to_o jerusalem_n for_o help_v or_o their_o knowledge_n that_o other_o church_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a evil_n or_o the_o party_n among_o themselves_o who_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n do_v prove_v the_o contrary_n and_o of_o supremacy_n of_o power_n in_o congregation_n but_o though_o our_o author_n do_v not_o clear_v it_o to_o we_o where_o the_o supremacy_n do_v lie_v yet_o in_o this_o pag_n 423_o and_o 424._o he_o use_v a_o argument_n from_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n act._n 15._o and_o our_o own_o doctrine_n concern_v the_o same_o to_o prove_v that_o it_o do_v not_o lie_v in_o the_o congregation_n which_o argument_n we_o be_v willing_a to_o consider_v his_o word_n be_v those_o that_o supremacy_n of_o power_n shall_v be_v in_o a_o congregation_n without_o any_o power_n of_o appeal_n i_o think_v our_o brethren_n can_v teach_v for_o when_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n can_v judge_v a_o matter_n concern_v the_o necessity_n of_o keep_v moses_n law_n they_o by_o nature_n direction_n act._n 15._o 2._o decree_n to_o send_v paul_n and_o barnabas_n and_o other_o to_o jerusalem_n to_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n as_o to_o a_o high_a judicature_n that_o there_o truth_n may_v be_v determine_v and_o then_o he_o add_v that_o mr._n tompson_n and_o myself_o do_v teach_v that_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n have_v jus_o power_n to_o judge_n and_o determine_v the_o controversy_n but_o because_o of_o the_o difficulty_n have_v not_o light_a to_o judge_v thereof_o allege_v for_o this_o in_o the_o margin_n the_o answer_n chap._n 4._o page_n 42._o ergo_fw-la say_v he_o they_o must_v acknowledge_v appeal_v by_o nature_n light_n warrantable_a as_o well_o as_o we_o answ_n that_o appeal_n be_v warrantable_a and_o warrantable_a by_o nature_n light_n till_o we_o come_v to_o the_o supreme_a judicatorie_a this_o we_o deny_v not_o but_o have_v former_o yield_v no_o less_o but_o for_o that_o our_o brother_n here_o aim_v at_o viz._n appeal_v from_o a_o congregationall_a church_n as_o not_o be_v supreme_a to_o another_o judicatory_a this_o we_o conceive_v be_v not_o prove_v by_o the_o example_n of_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n nor_o by_o any_o thing_n that_o we_o have_v write_v concern_v the_o same_o and_o the_o reason_n it_o because_o antioch_n have_v right_a and_o authority_n to_o have_v end_v the_o matter_n among_o themselves_o if_o ability_n have_v serve_v thereto_o and_o their_o send_n to_o jerusalem_n for_o help_n may_v argue_v want_n of_o agreement_n or_o imperfection_n of_o light_n but_o argue_v no_o want_n of_o authority_n or_o right_n within_o themselves_o for_o it_o be_v plain_a verse_n 2_o that_o antioch_n do_v endeavour_v to_o have_v end_v the_o matter_n among_o themselves_o and_o have_v much_o disputation_n about_o it_o for_o that_o end_n afore_o there_o be_v any_o speech_n of_o send_v to_o jerusalem_n now_o this_o endeavour_n do_v argue_v their_o right_n for_o otherwise_o it_o have_v be_v sinful_a as_o be_v a_o presume_v to_o do_v that_o which_o do_v not_o belong_v to_o they_o this_o reason_n we_o have_v render_v afore_o in_o the_o place_n which_o our_o author_n allege_v and_o he_o do_v not_o at_o all_o remove_v it_o and_o therefore_o we_o be_v still_o of_o the_o same_o mind_n as_o before_o that_o antioch_n be_v not_o dependent_a upon_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o other_o church_n but_o have_v independent_a power_n within_o themselves_o as_o many_o may_v have_v who_o yet_o need_v the_o help_n of_o light_n from_o other_o for_o their_o direction_n in_o use_v their_o power_n great_a king_n and_o monarch_n have_v receive_v light_n from_o their_o counsellor_n without_o any_o impeachment_n of_o their_o independent_a power_n which_o they_o have_v in_o themselves_o and_o without_o any_o ascribe_v of_o that_o power_n to_o those_o their_o counselor_n as_o we_o say_v in_o the_o place_n allege_v antioch_n may_v send_v to_o jerusalem_n for_o help_v and_o yet_o this_o send_v neither_o prove_v right_a of_o jurisdiction_n in_o they_o who_o be_v send_v unto_o nor_o want_v of_o jurisdiction_n in_o they_o who_o do_v send_v and_o therefore_o whereas_o our_o brother_n say_v antioch_n because_o of_o the_o difficulty_n of_o the_o controversy_n have_v not_o light_a to_o judge_v thereof_o ergo_fw-la we_o must_v acknowledge_v appeal_v to_o be_v warrantable_a we_o will_v rather_o argue_v thus_o antioch_n want_v light_n ergo_fw-la counsel_n and_o light_n be_v to_o be_v seek_v elsewhere_o and_o thus_o we_o conceive_v the_o inference_n will_v hold_v but_o to_o say_v ergo_fw-la there_o must_v be_v appeal_v from_o the_o congregation_n to_o other_o in_o matter_n of_o jurisdiction_n this_o we_o conceive_v will_v not_o follow_v at_o all_o no_o more_o than_o it_o will_v follow_v king_n or_o other_o supreme_a civil_a ruler_n must_v seek_v light_a and_o direction_n from_o their_o counselor_n ergo_fw-la there_o lie_v a_o appeal_n from_o they_o to_o those_o counselor_n which_o consequence_n none_o will_v maintain_v nor_o affirm_v if_o the_o scripture_n have_v say_v that_o antioch_n do_v never_o attempt_v to_o â—nd_v that_o controversy_n as_o know_v that_o the_o end_n thereof_o belong_v not_o to_o they_o but_o to_o other_o or_o if_o it_o have_v say_v that_o the_o censure_v of_o these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n have_v be_v perform_v by_o they_o of_o jerusalem_n and_o not_o by_o they_o of_o antioch_n as_o not_o belong_v to_o antioch_n but_o to_o they_o of_o jerusalem_n than_o our_o brother_n may_v have_v have_v some_o ground_n from_o antioch_n to_o prove_v the_o necessity_n or_o warrantablenesse_n of_o appeal_n from_o congregationall_a church_n to_o other_o judicatories_n but_o such_o no_o such_o thing_n be_v say_v we_o see_v not_o how_o this_o example_n can_v be_v any_o ground_n for_o the_o establish_n of_o such_o appeal_n or_o the_o take_n away_o from_o congregationall_a church_n their_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n within_o themselves_o especial_o we_o see_v not_o how_o this_o our_o brother_n can_v allege_v the_o same_o for_o such_o a_o purpose_n consider_v what_o himself_o have_v write_v elsewhere_o in_o this_o learned_a treatise_n of_o he_o wherein_o he_o examine_v that_o answer_n of_o we_o two_o passage_n in_o his_o treatise_n i_o propound_v to_o consideration_n which_o seem_v to_o i_o to_o make_v for_o that_o independent_a or_o supreme_a power_n in_o congregation_n which_o here_o he_o be_v dispute_v against_o the_o one_o be_v that_o which_o we_o touch_v before_o in_o his_o page_n 413._o where_o he_o say_v that_o synod_n in_o case_n of_o neglect_n of_o presbyterial_a church_n be_v to_o command_v the_o particular_a church_n who_o it_o concern_v to_o do_v their_o duty_n as_o in_o other_o particular_n there_o name_v so_o in_o excommunication_n of_o offender_n and_o further_o that_o the_o synod_n act._n 15._o be_v to_o remit_v the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n to_o the_o presbytery_n of_o antioch_n and_o jerusalem_n in_o case_n of_o the_o obstinacy_n of_o these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n which_o i_o
reason_n which_o do_v show_v that_o the_o jew_n and_o they_o be_v very_o unlike_a the_o jew_n have_v a_o supreme_a judicatory_a for_o the_o final_a end_n of_o cruse_n and_o they_o have_v none_o be_v to_o show_v ourselves_o very_o irrational_a or_o worse_o end_v why_o our_o brother_n shall_v put_v such_o a_o thing_n upon_o we_o we_o be_v no_o way_n guilty_a thereof_o we_o do_v not_o know_v but_o we_o desire_v that_o our_o reason_n may_v be_v apply_v to_o our_o own_o conclusion_n to_o which_o we_o do_v and_o do_v apply_v it_o and_o not_o to_o this_o other_o express_v by_o our_o brother_n which_o indeed_o be_v none_o of_o we_o and_o then_o we_o be_v content_v that_o rational_a and_o judicious_a reader_n may_v judge_v whether_o or_o no_o there_o be_v any_o sufficient_a weight_n therein_o which_o that_o they_o may_v more_o ready_o do_v i_o have_v here_o recollect_v the_o same_o into_o this_o short_a sum_n that_o they_o may_v brief_o behold_v it_o with_o one_o view_n viz_o if_o the_o jew_n have_v a_o supreme_a judicatory_a for_o the_o final_a end_n of_o cause_n and_o the_o congregationall_a way_n have_v the_o like_a if_o the_o jew_n have_v a_o stand_v judicatory_a always_o in_o readiness_n for_o the_o hear_n of_o cause_n and_o the_o congregationall_a way_n have_v the_o like_a and_o if_o the_o supreme_a judicatory_a among_o the_o jew_n be_v very_o far_o remote_a from_o many_o of_o they_o and_o in_o the_o congregationall_a way_n be_v more_o convenient_a and_o near_o at_o hand_n than_o the_o congregationall_a way_n be_v in_o some_o thing_n equal_a to_o the_o jew_n and_o in_o other_o thing_n more_o excellent_a but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a in_o all_o the_o particular_n and_o therefore_o the_o second_o be_v true_a also_o again_o if_o the_o jew_n have_v a_o supreme_a judicatory_a for_o the_o final_a end_n of_o cause_n and_o the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n have_v not_o if_o the_o jew_n have_v a_o stand_v judicatory_a always_o in_o readiness_n for_o the_o hear_n of_o cause_n and_o the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n have_v not_o and_o if_o the_o supreme_a judicatory_a among_o the_o jew_n be_v very_o remote_a from_o many_o of_o they_o and_o synod_n among_o our_o brethren_n be_v the_o same_o than_o the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n be_v in_o some_o thing_n as_o defective_a as_o the_o jew_n and_o in_o other_o thing_n more_o defective_a than_o they_o but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a in_o all_o the_o particular_n of_o it_o and_o therefore_o the_o second_o be_v true_a also_o both_o the_o assumption_n in_o all_o the_o branch_n thereof_o i_o conceive_v be_v clear_o prove_v in_o the_o answer_n in_o the_o page_n which_o our_o brother_n do_v allege_v and_o whether_o the_o consequence_n be_v good_a let_v the_o wise_a judge_n have_v thus_o reduce_v our_o argumentation_n to_o its_o own_o proper_a and_o genuine_a shape_n let_v we_o now_o consider_v of_o mr._n rutherford_n answer_v thereto_o first_o say_v he_o the_o speediness_n of_o end_v controversy_n in_o a_o congregation_n be_v bad_o comprise_v with_o the_o suddenness_n and_o temerity_n of_o deliver_v man_n to_o satan_n upon_o the_o decision_n of_o three_o elder_n without_o so_o much_o as_o ask_v advise_v of_o any_o class_n of_o elder_n and_o with_o decide_v question_n deep_a and_o grave_a which_o concern_v many_o church_n which_o be_v a_o put_n of_o a_o private_a sickle_n in_o a_o common_a and_o public_a harvest_n answ_n if_o advise_v from_o other_o church_n may_v be_v have_v we_o never_o speak_v word_n for_o do_v weighty_a matter_n without_o the_o same_o but_o in_o such_o case_n it_o be_v both_o our_o practice_n and_o advise_v to_o make_v use_n thereof_o and_o therefore_o this_o deliver_v man_n to_o satan_n in_o way_n of_o temerity_n or_o rashness_n touch_v not_o we_o who_o opinion_n and_o practice_n be_v other_o wise_a as_o for_o suddenness_n i_o conceive_v if_o the_o same_o be_v sometime_o accompany_v with_o temerity_n and_o rashness_n and_o so_o worthy_a to_o be_v blame_v yet_o not_o always_o for_o in_o the_o reformation_n of_o the_o house_n of_o god_n in_o the_o day_n of_o hezekiah_n it_o be_v say_v that_o the_o thing_n be_v do_v sudden_o 2_o chron._n 29._o 36._o where_o suddenness_n do_v not_o signify_v any_o sinful_a temerity_n or_o râ—shnesle_n but_o contrary_o do_v testify_v god_n great_a goodnesle_n that_o have_v so_o prepare_v the_o people_n to_o so_o good_a a_o work_n for_o this_o cause_n this_o suddenness_n be_v to_o hezekiah_n and_o god_n people_n a_o occasion_n and_o ground_n of_o great_a joy_n and_o gladness_n which_o temerity_n can_v not_o have_v be_v and_o therefore_o suddenness_n and_o temerity_n must_v not_o always_o be_v confound_v and_o couple_v together_o as_o if_o they_o be_v the_o same_o though_o hasty_a deliver_v of_o man_n to_o satan_n without_o due_a consideration_n be_v not_o good_a yet_o overlong_o delay_v of_o due_a proceed_n against_o delinquent_n be_v bad_a also_o for_o the_o holy_a ghost_n tell_v we_o because_o sentence_v against_o a_o evil_a work_n be_v not_o execute_v speedy_o therefore_o the_o heart_n of_o the_o son_n of_o man_n be_v full_o set_v to_o do_v evil_a eccl._n 8._o 11._o for_o which_o cause_n execute_v judgement_n in_o the_o morning_n that_o be_v to_o say_v speedy_o be_v sometime_o express_o require_v jer._n 21._o 12._o which_o be_v speak_v of_o justice_n to_o be_v execute_v by_o civil_a authority_n do_v hold_v by_o proportion_n and_o like_a reason_n in_o ecclesiastical_a censure_n for_o as_o much_o as_o speedinesle_n be_v a_o duty_n and_o delay_n be_v daangerous_a in_o the_o one_o case_n as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o other_o whereas_o our_o author_n think_v much_o that_o excommunication_n shall_v proceed_v upon_o the_o decision_n of_o three_o elder_n as_o we_o know_v nothing_o but_o a_o congregation_n may_v have_v more_o elder_n than_o the_o three_o if_o god_n provide_v they_o fit_a man_n and_o the_o numerousnesse_n of_o the_o congregation_n so_o require_v in_o which_o case_n our_o author_n say_v nothing_o to_o the_o contrary_a but_o they_o may_v have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v so_o if_o they_o have_v but_o three_o we_o know_v nothing_o in_o this_o but_o they_o may_v have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v notwithstanding_o since_o himself_o teach_v due_a right_n page_n 61._o that_o the_o jew_n have_v their_o congregationall_a church_n as_o we_o have_v and_o have_v their_o meeting_n in_o their_o synagogue_n not_o only_o for_o doctrine_n but_o also_o for_o discipline_n and_o excommunication_n which_o if_o it_o be_v so_o it_o seem_v there_o may_v be_v excommunication_n by_o as_o small_a a_o number_n as_o three_o unless_o it_o can_v appear_v that_o in_o every_o synagogue_n the_o elder_n and_o ruler_n in_o it_o be_v a_o great_a number_n than_o be_v here_o mention_v which_o be_v more_o than_o i_o do_v remember_v to_o be_v express_v in_o scripture_n yea_o and_o further_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o inferior_a judicature_n in_o israel_n have_v power_n of_o life_n and_o death_n page_n 315._o now_o the_o judge_n in_o these_o inferior_a judicature_n though_o they_o must_v never_o be_v under_o that_o number_n of_o three_o yet_o they_o do_v not_o always_o exceed_v the_o same_o for_o aught_o that_o do_v appear_v and_o if_o three_o judge_n have_v power_n of_o life_n and_o death_n why_o may_v not_o a_o congregation_n with_o three_o elder_n have_v power_n of_o excommunication_n moreover_o in_o his_o page_n 454._o he_o give_v we_o these_o word_n for_o a_o proposition_n that_o it_o flow_v connatural_o from_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essence_n of_o church_n to_o exercise_v jurisdiction_n over_o all_o its_o own_o member_n to_o which_o those_o word_n do_v also_o agree_v page_n 287._o viz._n the_o power_n and_o right_a to_o discipline_n be_v a_o propriety_n essential_a to_o a_o church_n and_o be_v not_o remove_v from_o it_o till_o god_n remove_v the_o candlestick_n and_o the_o church_n cease_v to_o be_v a_o visible_a church_n and_o in_o page_n 302._o he_o afford_v we_o these_o word_n for_o a_o assumption_n that_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o church_n want_v nothing_o of_o the_o be_v and_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n and_o hence_o the_o conclusion_n be_v obvious_a that_o a_o congregation_n may_v exercise_v jurisdiction_n over_o all_o it_o own_o member_n and_o in_o as_o much_o as_o a_o congregation_n in_o which_o be_v but_o three_o elder_n be_v a_o congregation_n it_o follow_v that_o a_o congregation_n in_o which_o be_v but_o three_o elder_n may_v exercise_v such_o jurisdiction_n this_o conclusion_n our_o author_n can_v deny_v in_o as_o much_o as_o it_o necessary_o and_o direct_o follow_v from_o premise_n which_o be_v both_o his_o own_o yea_o in_o his_o page_n 302._o hâ—_n say_v that_o this_o be_v a_o principle_n of_o church_n policy_n that_o every_o politic_a body_n of_o christ_n have_v power_n of_o church_n government_n
itself_o whereas_o there_o be_v no_o consociate_v church_n to_o share_v with_o it_o in_o that_o power_n answ_n this_o i_o grant_v be_v very_o true_a and_o i_o desire_v it_o may_v not_o be_v recall_v but_o may_v still_o stand_v as_o here_o it_o be_v express_o give_v to_o we_o and_o then_o i_o desire_v to_o know_v what_o rule_n of_o christ_n be_v transgress_v if_o a_o other_o congregation_n i_o mean_v a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n do_v exercise_v the_o like_a power_n for_o my_o part_n i_o know_v no_o such_o rule_n nor_o any_o good_a reason_n but_o if_o that_o the_o one_o congregation_n may_v so_o practice_v the_o other_o congregation_n may_v do_v the_o like_a and_o that_o the_o ground_n at_o least_o some_o of_o they_o which_o will_v warrant_v the_o one_o will_v also_o suffice_v to_o warrant_v the_o other_o nevertheless_o when_o any_o rule_n of_o christ_n shall_v be_v produce_v that_o do_v restrain_v a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n of_o this_o entire_a power_n which_o be_v so_o free_o and_o plain_o grant_v to_o the_o congregation_n that_o be_v alone_o i_o shall_v then_o grant_v that_o the_o former_a must_v have_v less_o liberty_n to_o exercise_v this_o power_n then_o be_v here_o grant_v to_o the_o latter_a in_o the_o mean_a time_n that_o which_o here_o be_v yield_v to_o the_o one_o do_v among_o other_o thing_n induce_v i_o to_o think_v that_o the_o same_o aught_o to_o be_v grant_v to_o the_o other_o and_o so_o that_o entireness_n of_o power_n be_v in_o they_o both_o a_o congregation_n viz._n which_o be_v alone_o be_v capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n because_o it_o be_v a_o church_n answ_n how_o will_v it_o then_o be_v avoid_v but_o a_o congregation_n which_o have_v neighbour_n or_o a_o congregation_n which_o be_v alone_o and_o now_o have_v neighbour_n add_v to_o it_o how_o will_v it_o be_v avoid_v i_o say_v but_o such_o a_o congregation_n as_o this_o be_v also_o capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n for_o can_v it_o be_v deny_v but_o such_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o church_n as_o well_o as_o the_o other_o sure_o if_o mr._n rutherford_n his_o doctrine_n elsewhere_o deliver_v do_v stand_v good_a this_o can_v be_v deny_v at_o all_o for_o in_o his_o page_n 301_o he_o say_v that_o be_v a_o church_n and_o have_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essential_a note_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n and_o preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n say_v he_o be_v essential_a note_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n which_o if_o it_o be_v so_o than_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n be_v a_o visible_a church_n and_o have_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n because_o preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v clear_o find_v in_o such_o a_o congregation_n and_o if_o such_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o church_n then_o by_o his_o own_o doctrine_n in_o this_o place_n which_o we_o have_v in_o hand_n such_o a_o congregation_n be_v capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n for_o thus_o i_o argue_v from_o his_o own_o word_n every_o congregation_n which_o be_v a_o church_n be_v capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n but_o a_o congregation_n which_o have_v neighbour_n be_v a_o church_n therefore_o a_o congregation_n which_o have_v neighbour_n be_v capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n the_o conclusion_n be_v that_o which_o we_o stand_v for_o and_o it_o make_v direct_o against_o our_o brother_n and_o yet_o i_o see_v not_o how_o he_o can_v avoid_v it_o because_o both_o the_o premise_n be_v his_o own_o for_o the_o proposition_n be_v plain_a from_o the_o word_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n uâ—z_n a_o congregation_n be_v capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n because_o it_o be_v a_o church_n now_o if_o this_o be_v the_o reason_n why_o it_o be_v capable_a thereof_o then_o look_v to_o what_o congregation_n this_o reason_n do_v agree_v every_o such_o congregation_n must_v be_v so_o capable_a for_o our_o author_n well_o know_v that_o à _fw-la quatenus_fw-la ad_fw-la omne_fw-la consequentia_fw-la and_o for_o the_o assumption_n the_o same_o be_v confirm_v by_o his_o word_n page_n 302_o where_o he_o make_v that_o to_o be_v a_o church_n and_o to_o have_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o which_o the_o preach_a of_o the_o word_n and_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n do_v agree_v and_o these_o agree_n to_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n it_o follow_v that_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n be_v a_o church_n unless_o he_o will_v deny_v to_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n power_n of_o preach_v the_o word_n and_o administer_a the_o sacrament_n which_o i_o be_o persuade_v he_o will_v not_o deny_v at_o all_o it_o will_v unavoidable_o follow_v from_o his_o own_o ground_n that_o such_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o visible_a church_n and_o if_o such_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o visible_a church_n then_o by_o his_o own_o ground_n also_o such_o a_o congregation_n must_v be_v capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n which_o conclusion_n if_o it_o be_v grant_v we_o desire_v no_o more_o for_o it_o be_v the_o thing_n that_o we_o hold_v a_o woman_n in_o no_o case_n be_v capable_a of_o administer_a baptism_n or_o the_o lord_n supper_n except_o she_o be_v extraordinary_o and_o immediate_o inspire_v to_o be_v a_o prophetess_n but_o for_o the_o exercise_n of_o entire_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n by_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o remote_a island_n i_o hope_v it_o have_v no_o such_o need_n of_o immediate_a inspiration_n answ_n nor_o do_v we_o think_v otherwise_o but_o that_o we_o may_v keep_v to_o the_o point_n and_o bring_v up_o the_o dispute_n to_o the_o thing_n in_o questio_fw-la if_o such_o a_o congregation_n have_v no_o such_o inspiration_n may_v notwithstanding_o lawful_o exercise_v entire_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n within_o themselves_o and_o that_o upon_o this_o reason_n because_o they_o now_o be_v alone_o which_o if_o they_o have_v neighbour_n be_v not_o lawful_a for_o they_o to_o do_v then_o let_v it_o be_v well_o consider_v whether_o by_o the_o like_a reason_n in_o the_o like_o extraordinary_a case_n baptism_n and_o the_o lord_n supper_n may_v not_o be_v administer_v the_o one_o of_o they_o by_o a_o woman_n and_o both_o of_o they_o by_o such_o as_o be_v no_o minister_n for_o as_o in_o one_o case_n the_o plea_n to_o make_v it_o lawful_a be_v this_o because_o such_o a_o congregation_n have_v no_o neighbour_n so_o in_o the_o other_o the_o plea_n be_v because_o the_o congregation_n have_v no_o minister_n nor_o perhaps_o there_o be_v no_o man_n at_o hand_n and_o if_o the_o one_o which_o at_o other_o time_n be_v unlawful_a yet_o in_o such_o a_o extraordinary_a exigence_n of_o god_n providence_n may_v be_v lawful_o do_v though_o there_o be_v no_o immediate_a inspiration_n to_o warrant_v the_o same_o why_o do_v there_o need_v such_o immediate_a inspiration_n to_o warrant_v the_o other_o the_o extraordinary_a exigence_n of_o god_n providence_n be_v alike_o in_o both_o i_o desire_v i_o may_v not_o be_v mistake_v in_o this_o passage_n for_o i_o do_v not_o affirm_v nor_o ever_o do_v that_o the_o dispensation_n of_o discipline_n and_o of_o sacrament_n in_o the_o case_n mention_v be_v both_o alike_o unlawful_a or_o else_o both_o alike_o lawful_a the_o answer_n will_v not_o witness_v that_o i_o have_v so_o affirm_v neither_o yet_o this_o present_a discourse_n tâ—_n much_o less_o do_v i_o hold_v that_o sacrament_n may_v be_v dispense_v by_o woman_n or_o by_o man_n that_o be_v not_o minister_n all_o that_o i_o have_v say_v in_o this_o matter_n be_v thus_o much_o that_o it_o be_v good_a to_o take_v heed_n how_o far_o we_o yield_v it_o lawful_a in_o such_o extraordinary_a case_n as_o want_v of_o neighbour_n to_o transgress_v and_o violate_v ordinary_a rule_n lest_o some_o body_n do_v thence_o infer_v that_o sacrament_n may_v be_v dispense_v by_o woman_n or_o man_n that_o be_v no_o minister_n in_o case_n that_o minister_n or_o man_n be_v want_v this_o i_o have_v say_v indeed_o as_o be_v tender_a and_o afraid_a to_o open_v a_o door_n too_o far_o for_o liberty_n of_o transgress_v ordinary_a rule_n and_o conceive_v that_o keep_v close_o to_o those_o rule_n be_v the_o safe_a way_n if_o any_o man_n be_v more_o bold_a and_o dare_v open_a the_o door_n further_o than_o i_o dare_v adventure_n to_o do_v and_o think_v he_o can_v easy_o shut_v the_o same_o again_o to_o stop_v the_o inconvenience_n and_o ill_a consequent_n which_o i_o fear_v may_v thence_o ensue_v i_o shall_v leave_v he_o to_o his_o discretion_n and_o the_o guidance_n of_o god_n therein_o only_o crave_v thus_o much_o for_o myself_o that_o no_o more_o may_v be_v impute_v to_o i_o nor_o report_v of_o i_o in_o this_o or_o other_o matter_n than_o indeed_o i_o have_v affirm_v or_o express_v concern_v his_o second_o reason_n
then_o that_o much_o people_n that_o believe_v may_v so_o assemble_v much_o more_o for_o if_o there_o be_v no_o impossibility_n but_o a_o company_n that_o be_v great_a may_n so_o assemble_v i_o suppose_v the_o same_o can_v be_v deny_v of_o a_o company_n that_o be_v lesser_a again_o to_o say_v this_o whole_a church_n be_v a_o great_a number_n than_o the_o much_o people_n that_o believe_v be_v direct_o to_o gainsay_v himself_o who_o in_o page_n 460_o 461._o make_v the_o much_o people_n a_o great_a number_n than_o the_o congregation_n meet_v for_o the_o word_n sacrament_n and_o church_n censure_n because_o such_o a_o congregation_n he_o say_v can_v not_o convenient_o exceed_v one_o thousand_o whereas_o the_o much_o people_n must_v be_v much_o in_o comparison_n of_o thousand_o of_o jew_n who_o reject_v christ_n for_o that_o otherwise_o it_o will_v not_o have_v be_v much_o for_o paul_n comfort_n for_o which_o end_n it_o be_v mention_v and_o bring_v if_o it_o be_v say_v the_o whole_a church_n be_v less_o than_o the_o people_n that_o believe_v than_o it_o follow_v that_o some_o of_o those_o believer_n be_v not_o of_o the_o church_n and_o so_o what_o himself_o have_v write_v page_n 125._o 242._o 251._o will_v not_o stand_v for_o in_o page_n 125_o he_o say_v that_o the_o seal_n of_o baptism_n and_o the_o profession_n of_o the_o truth_n be_v that_o which_o make_v one_o member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n and_o by_o this_o be_v all_o the_o citizen_n and_o domestics_n inchurched_n and_o receive_v into_o a_o visible_a church_n and_o page_n 242._o he_o say_v any_o who_o blamelesse_o profess_v christ_n be_v ecclesiastical_o in_o foro_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la a_o true_a and_o valid_a member_n of_o the_o church_n visible_a have_v ecclesiastical_a power_n valid_a for_o that_o effect_n and_o page_n 251._o he_o say_v a_o visible_a profession_n of_o the_o truth_n and_o doctrine_n of_o golinesse_n be_v that_o which_o essential_o constitute_v a_o visible_a church_n and_o every_o member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n now_o if_o these_o thing_n be_v so_o than_o it_o follow_v that_o this_o whole_a people_n that_o believe_v be_v all_o of_o they_o member_n of_o the_o church_n inasmuch_o as_o they_o be_v all_o partaker_n of_o baptism_n and_o profession_n which_o he_o say_v do_v essential_o constitute_v the_o visible_a church_n and_o every_o member_n thereof_o and_o they_o be_v all_o member_n of_o the_o church_n than_o the_o church_n be_v not_o a_o lesser_a company_n than_o they_o nor_o can_v he_o say_v it_o be_v a_o great_a company_n for_o the_o reason_n mention_v before_o and_o if_o it_o be_v neither_o a_o great_a company_n nor_o a_o lesser_a be_v it_o not_o then_o the_o same_o and_o if_o it_o be_v the_o same_o then_o how_o can_v this_o stand_v which_o he_o affirm_v in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n where_o he_o say_v the_o whole_a church_n be_v not_o the_o whole_a much_o people_n that_o believe_v it_o seem_v to_o i_o that_o which_o way_n soever_o he_o shall_v take_v his_o own_o pen_n will_v be_v witness_n against_o himself_o for_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n he_o say_v the_o whole_a church_n be_v not_o the_o whole_a much_o people_n that_o believe_v and_o in_o another_o place_n he_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o much_o people_n that_o believe_v be_v a_o great_a number_n than_o the_o whole_a church_n meet_v for_o word_n sacrament_n etc._n etc._n and_o yet_o in_o a_o three_o place_n he_o tell_v we_o that_o in_o effect_v it_o be_v not_o great_a inasmuch_o as_o all_o baptise_a profess_v believer_n he_o say_v be_v of_o the_o church_n further_o when_o the_o text_n speak_v of_o the_o whole_a church_n come_v together_o in_o some_o place_n let_v the_o wise_a judge_n whether_o it_o be_v a_o good_a exposition_n to_o say_v by_o the_o whole_a be_v not_o mean_v the_o whole_a but_o only_o a_o part_n which_o i_o conceive_v be_v mr._n rutherford_n exposition_n who_o will_v not_o yield_v that_o the_o whole_a do_v come_v together_o in_o any_o one_o place_n but_o part_n in_o one_o place_n and_o part_n in_o another_o the_o whole_a be_v distribute_v into_o several_a part_n and_o those_o part_n into_o several_a place_n so_o that_o the_o whole_a church_n come_v together_o into_o some_o place_n must_v have_v this_o meaning_n the_o whole_a come_v not_o together_o in_o any_o place_n but_o part_n in_o one_o place_n and_o part_n in_o another_o which_o i_o fear_n be_v too_o much_o violence_n offer_v to_o the_o sacred_a text_n which_o shall_v be_v handle_v with_o reverence_n but_o he_o bring_v a_o reason_n for_o this_o exposition_n and_o that_o be_v this_o because_o else_o we_o must_v say_v that_o at_o any_o one_o assembly_n all_o the_o prophet_n and_o teacher_n do_v prophesy_v at_o corinth_n for_o the_o text_n say_v he_o be_v convince_v of_o all_o he_o be_v judge_v of_o all_o whereas_o the_o consequence_n shall_v be_v absurd_a it_o shall_v be_v a_o longsome_a and_o wearisome_a meeting_n page_z 465._o answ_n and_o if_o they_o prophesy_v not_o all_o in_o one_o assembly_n but_o divers_a how_o can_v the_o unbeliever_n be_v convince_v and_o judge_v by_o they_o all_o it_o will_v not_o be_v easy_a to_o conceive_v how_o it_o can_v be_v they_o prophesy_v in_o such_o a_o way_n for_o the_o unbeliever_n sure_o can_v not_o be_v present_a in_o sundry_a assembly_n at_o once_o but_o in_o one_o only_a and_o therefore_o those_o word_n he_o be_v convince_v of_o all_o he_o be_v judge_v of_o all_o will_v lay_v as_o much_o absurdity_n upon_o his_o exposition_n of_o the_o word_n as_o upon_o we_o or_o rather_o a_o great_a deal_n more_o for_o as_o for_o we_o there_o be_v no_o absurdity_n therein_o at_o all_o for_o asmuch_o as_o by_o all_o the_o prophet_n be_v mean_v all_o that_o prophesy_v at_o the_o time_n when_o the_o unbeliever_n be_v present_a and_o not_o that_o all_o must_v prophesy_v upon_o one_o day_n as_o mr._n rutherford_n will_v have_v it_o but_o the_o text_n do_v not_o so_o say_v nor_o any_o interpreter_n that_o i_o have_v meet_v withal_o sure_o i_o be_o beza_n say_v the_o express_a contrary_n for_o upon_o verse_n 31._o you_o may_v all_o prophesy_v one_o by_o one_o etc._n etc._n he_o have_v this_o note_n non_fw-la eodem_fw-la sane_fw-la die_fw-la sed_fw-la ternis_fw-la etc._n etc._n that_o be_v indeed_o not_o all_o upon_o one_o day_n which_o be_v mr._n rutherford_n exposition_n but_o three_o at_o every_o moe_v have_v their_o turn_n to_o speak_v till_o all_o have_v speak_v by_o course_n interpreter_n say_v they_o meet_v in_o divers_a assembly_n page_n 465._o answ_n let_v those_o interpreter_n be_v name_v and_o there_o word_n set_v down_o and_o then_o by_o god_n help_n we_o shall_v consider_v of_o what_o they_o say_v and_o of_o the_o ground_n and_o reason_n thereof_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n to_o say_v that_o interpreter_n say_v it_o and_o yet_o neither_o to_o tell_v we_o the_o reason_n nor_o the_o word_n of_o those_o interpreter_n nor_o so_o much_o as_o the_o name_n of_o any_o of_o they_o how_o shall_v this_o prevail_v with_o we_o to_o turn_v we_o away_o from_o our_o former_a apprehension_n in_o the_o point_n true_a it_o be_v in_o another_o place_n etc._n etc._n pag_n 461._o speak_v of_o verse_n 31._o yea_o may_v all_o prophesy_v one_o by_o one_o he_o there_o tell_v we_o that_o diodatus_n understand_v it_o that_o they_o may_v prophecy_n by_o course_n and_o in_o divers_a or_o sundry_a assembly_n and_o essius_n say_v he_o say_v the_o same_o to_o wit_n that_o these_o prophet_n be_v to_o prophesy_v in_o divers_a assembly_n answ_n for_o diodatus_n i_o have_v he_o not_o at_o hand_n and_o therefore_o i_o can_v peruse_v the_o place_n but_o for_o estius_n this_o i_o may_v say_v that_o he_o neither_o say_v what_o here_o be_v report_v in_o his_o commentary_n upon_o the_o verse_n allege_v nor_o upon_o any_o verse_n else_o in_o all_o the_o chapter_n as_o far_o as_o i_o can_v observe_v and_o i_o have_v read_v and_o peruse_v he_o on_o purpose_n to_o see_v what_o be_v to_o be_v find_v in_o he_o but_o though_o i_o can_v find_v he_o affirm_v that_o which_o mr._n rutherford_n bring_v he_o for_o yet_o i_o find_v sundry_a place_n wherein_o he_o seem_v to_o i_o to_o affirm_v the_o contrary_a for_o instance_n comment_v upon_o the_o verse_n allege_v he_o have_v these_o word_n as_o the_o sense_n which_o he_o most_o prefer_v viz._n quod_fw-la si_fw-la non_fw-la unus_fw-la tantum_fw-la propheta_fw-la sed_fw-la plures_fw-la etc._n etc._n that_o be_v if_o not_o only_o one_o prophet_n but_o sundry_a yea_o all_o do_v speak_v in_o the_o assembly_n in_o order_n it_o will_v come_v to_o pass_v that_o those_o all_o may_v also_o learn_v and_o receive_v exhortation_n there_o be_v never_o a_o one_o of_o they_o who_o be_v not_o also_o a_o hearer_n wherein_o we_o see_v he_o speak_v not_o
of_o nice_a the_o first_o general_a council_n of_o constantinople_n with_o other_o counsel_n and_o author_n witness_v the_o same_o pag._n 201_o 202._o and_o in_o a_o three_o place_n he_o grant_v that_o all_o matter_n in_o the_o church_n must_v be_v do_v with_o the_o people_n consent_n consentiente_fw-la plebe_fw-la allege_v a_o matter_n of_o 18._o or_o 19_o author_n for_o the_o same_o tenet_n peaceable_a plea_n p._n 49._o and_o in_o another_o place_n he_o allege_v and_o approve_v the_o judgement_n of_o mr._n calderwood_n and_o mr._n cartwright_n affirm_v that_o this_o liberty_n be_v purchase_v by_o the_o blood_n of_o christ_n due_a right_n second_o pag._n 464._o all_o which_o do_v plain_o show_v that_o in_o his_o judgement_n the_o people_n have_v some_o 〈◊〉_d or_o privilege_n or_o right_a in_o church_n matter_n yea_o as_o himself_o say_v in_o this_o they_o have_v divinum_fw-la jus_o god_n right_a and_o yet_o for_o all_o this_o the_o apostle_n word_n do_v plain_o forbid_v woman_n to_o speak_v in_o the_o church_n 1_o cor._n 14._o 34._o 1_o tim._n 2._o 12._o which_o very_o prohibition_n to_o woman_n do_v also_o secret_o imply_v that_o man_n may_v have_v liberty_n to_o practice_v though_o woman_n may_v not_o now_o then_o if_o the_o people_n have_v liberty_n privilege_n right_o to_o consent_v and_o act_n in_o church_n matter_n yea_o to_o speak_v in_o the_o church_n and_o yet_o woman_n may_v not_o speak_v therein_o how_o can_v this_o stand_v which_o here_o m._n rutherford_n write_v that_o if_o the_o people_n have_v any_o liberty_n this_o liberty_n must_v also_o be_v due_a to_o woman_n if_o the_o apostle_n word_n and_o our_o brother_n own_o doctrine_n in_o the_o place_n cite_v do_v stand_v his_o say_n in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v now_o in_o hand_n can_v stand_v they_o be_v so_o contrary_a one_o to_o another_o three_o say_v he_o what_o privilege_n the_o people_n have_v in_o ordination_n to_o confer_v a_o ministry_n which_o they_o neither_o have_v formal_o nor_o virtual_o i_o know_v not_o answ_n neither_o formal_o nor_o virtual_o then_o hear_v your_o own_o word_n pag._n 7._o i_o deny_v not_o but_o there_o be_v a_o power_n virtual_a not_o formal_a in_o the_o church_n of_o believer_n to_o supply_v the_o want_n of_o ordination_n of_o pastor_n hic_fw-la &_o nunc_fw-la this_o power_n be_v virtual_a not_o formal_a etc._n etc._n whereas_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n the_o virtual_a power_n as_o well_o as_o the_o formal_a be_v deny_v which_o thing_n be_v not_o free_a from_o interfer_v or_o strong_a appearance_n thereof_o our_o word_n be_v not_o just_a the_o same_o which_o m._n rutherford_n set_v down_o a_o privilege_n in_o ordination_n to_o confer_v a_o ministry_n but_o these_o be_v our_o word_n a_o liberty_n exercise_v about_o ordination_n etc._n etc._n and_o who_o know_v not_o but_o there_o may_v be_v a_o liberty_n exercise_v about_o ordination_n or_o any_o other_o ordinance_n by_o way_n of_o consent_n thereto_o or_o desire_v thereof_o etc._n etc._n without_o any_o authoritative_a act_n therein_o and_o if_o this_o liberty_n about_o ordination_n be_v such_o a_o fault_n then_o how_o shall_v he_o be_v justify_v who_o do_v give_v to_o the_o people_n a_o great_a matter_n than_o this_o liberty_n do_v amount_v unto_o even_o a_o power_n to_o do_v that_o which_o shall_v stand_v for_o ordination_n itself_o which_o to_o do_v i_o conceive_v be_v more_o than_o to_o exercise_v some_o liberty_n about_o ordination_n and_o when_o the_o reader_n shall_v have_v consider_v these_o ensue_a word_n of_o m_o rutherford_n then_o let_v he_o be_v judge_n whether_o m._n rutherford_n do_v not_o give_v this_o power_n unto_o the_o people_n in_o some_o case_n as_o a_o rose_n say_v he_o cause_v to_o grow_v in_o winter_n by_o art_n be_v of_o that_o same_o nature_n with_o a_o rise_v produce_v in_o summer_n by_o nature_n though_o the_o manner_n of_o production_n be_v different_a so_o be_v they_o both_o true_a pastor_n those_o who_o have_v no_o call_n but_o the_o people_n election_n and_o those_o who_o have_v ordination_n by_o pastor_n p._n 186._o and_o in_o the_o page_n follow_v he_o give_v two_o reason_n to_o prove_v that_o in_o some_o case_n election_n by_o the_o people_n only_o may_v stand_v for_o ordination_n 1._o because_o god_n be_v not_o necessary_o tie_v to_o succession_n of_o pastor_n 2._o because_o where_o man_n be_v gift_v for_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n and_o there_o be_v no_o pastor_n to_o be_v have_v the_o give_v of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v a_o sign_n of_o a_o call_n of_o god_n who_o be_v not_o want_v to_o his_o own_o gracious_a intention_n though_o ordinary_a mean_n fail_v now_o if_o the_o people_n without_o pastor_n may_v do_v that_o which_o shall_v stand_v for_o ordination_n and_o if_o their_o election_n do_v make_v a_o minister_n in_o some_o case_n this_o seem_v to_o be_v more_o then_o only_o to_o exercise_v some_o liberty_n about_o ordination_n for_o as_o much_o as_o they_o may_v do_v this_o latter_a and_o possible_o no_o minister_n be_v make_v thereby_o whereas_o in_o the_o other_o case_n a_o man_n be_v make_v a_o true_a pastor_n and_o minister_n as_o well_o as_o by_o ordination_n itself_o marvel_v it_o be_v therefore_o that_o the_o great_a be_v allow_v as_o lawful_a and_o not_o the_o lesser_a that_o some_o liberty_n about_o ordination_n may_v not_o be_v allow_v and_o yet_o that_o can_v be_v allow_v which_o may_v stand_v for_o ordination_n itself_o and_o which_o make_v a_o ministerâ—_n as_o true_o as_o ordination_n do_v chap._n xviii_o of_o mr._n rutherford_n report_n of_o synodical_a proposition_n in_o new-england_n next_o after_o this_o our_o reverend_a author_n fall_v to_o scan_v as_o he_o say_v pag._n 476._o some_o synodical_a proposition_n of_o the_o church_n of_o new_a england_n as_o he_o call_v they_o together_o with_o a_o table_n of_o church_n power_n which_o he_o call_v the_o table_n of_o new_a england_n but_o with_o favour_n of_o soworthy_a a_o man_n he_o do_v great_o mistake_v the_o matter_n for_o neither_o be_v there_o any_o such_o synod_n nor_o synodical_a proposition_n as_o he_o speak_v of_o nor_o any_o such_o table_n of_o new_a england_n as_o he_o mention_v there_o be_v indeed_o at_o cambridge_n in_o the_o year_n 1643._o a_o print_a conference_n of_o some_o of_o the_o elder_n of_o that_o country_n where_o sundry_a point_n of_o church_n judgement_n be_v private_o discourse_v of_o and_o this_o be_v all_o but_o as_o the_o meeting_n be_v not_o any_o synod_n as_o synod_n be_v usual_o understand_v so_o neither_o be_v there_o any_o synodical_a proposition_n there_o agree_v upon_o nor_o any_o table_n of_o proposition_n agree_v upon_o to_o be_v give_v forth_o as_o the_o doctrine_n of_o new_a england_n this_o i_o be_o able_a to_o testify_v have_v be_v present_a at_o that_o meeting_n from_o the_o begin_n thereof_o unto_o the_o end_n and_o sundry_a other_o of_o the_o elder_n of_o these_o church_n can_v testify_v the_o same_o upon_o the_o same_o ground_n and_o know_v full_a well_o the_o truth_n of_o what_o i_o hear_v relate_v i_o will_v not_o spend_v time_n in_o reply_v to_o what_o he_o have_v write_v upon_o so_o manifest_a misinformation_n and_o mistake_v what_o information_n he_o go_v upon_o i_o know_v not_o per_fw-mi adventure_v some_o note_n may_v have_v come_v to_o his_o view_n which_o one_o or_o other_o may_v gather_v at_o that_o conference_n for_o his_o own_o private_a use_n peradventure_o some_o in_o their_o simplicity_n mean_v no_o hurt_n many_o have_v call_v that_o private_a conference_n by_o the_o name_n and_o term_v of_o a_o synoâ—_n and_o m._n rutherford_n may_v thereupon_o adventure_v to_o publish_v in_o print_n as_o here_o we_o see_v but_o however_o they_o mistake_v a_o rose_n sure_o i_o be_o synodical_a proposition_n there_o be_v none_o 〈◊〉_d any_o synod_n at_o all_o not_o new_a england_n table_n and_o therefore_o i_o think_v himself_o and_o other_o may_v do_v well_o and_o wise_o hereafter_o to_o be_v inform_v by_o good_a and_o sufficient_a intelligence_n of_o such_o thing_n as_o they_o publish_v to_o the_o world_n concerâ—ing_v the_o church_n in_o new_a england_n or_o else_o not_o to_o believe_v the_o same_o much_o less_o to_o divulge_v the_o same_o in_o print_n for_o what_o comfort_n can_v it_o be_v to_o any_o christian_n to_o receive_v and_o publish_v to_o the_o world_n against_o a_o man_n neighbour_n special_o against_o whole_a church_n of_o christ_n such_o report_v as_o for_o the_o matter_n contain_v in_o they_o do_v not_o agree_v with_o truth_n chap._n xix_o of_o the_o appeal_v of_o luther_n and_o cranmer_n and_o of_o the_o power_n and_o jurisdiction_n in_o general_a counsel_n deny_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n whether_o therein_o he_o do_v not_o contradict_v himself_o and_o also_o overthrow_v the_o jurisdiction_n of_o classical_a provincial_n and_o national_n assembly_n in_o
arise_v offence_n between_o congregation_n there_o must_v be_v a_o church_n of_o synod_n above_o congregation_n and_o those_o synod_n must_v judge_v and_o redress_v those_o offence_n to_o this_o we_o there_o answer_v that_o all_o offence_n do_v not_o fall_v within_o the_o compass_n of_o this_o rule_n and_o remedy_n tell_v the_o church_n and_o so_o no_o dependency_n of_o congregation_n upon_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o synod_n can_v be_v sufficient_o prove_v by_o this_o text_n first_o of_o all_o we_o instance_n in_o the_o offence_n of_o national_a church_n of_o which_o we_o suppose_v our_o brother_n will_v not_o say_v that_o they_o fall_v within_o the_o compass_n of_o our_o saviour_n rule_n tell_v the_o church_n for_o then_o the_o independency_n of_o national_a church_n and_o national_a synod_n be_v overthrow_v as_o well_o as_o the_o congregation_n which_o we_o suppose_v he_o will_v not_o grant_v and_o yet_o it_o can_v be_v avoid_v if_o his_o reason_n for_o the_o dependency_n of_o congregation_n upon_o synod_n do_v stand_v firm_a and_o next_o of_o all_o we_o instance_n in_o the_o offence_n of_o turk_n and_o indian_n and_o other_o heathen_n who_o may_v offend_v christian_n and_o yet_o be_v not_o to_o be_v complain_v of_o to_o the_o church_n the_o apostle_n express_o teach_v the_o contrary_a 1_o col._n 5._o this_o be_v the_o scope_n of_o that_o passage_n in_o the_o answer_n which_o here_o mr._n rutherford_n except_v against_o let_v we_o now_o hear_v what_o it_o be_v which_o he_o say_v thereto_o because_o say_v he_o ordinary_a communion_n fail_v when_o you_o go_v high_o than_o a_o national_a church_n and_o christ_n way_n suppose_v art_n ordinary_a communion_n as_o be_v clear_a if_o thy_o brother_n offend_v &c_n &c_n therefore_o i_o deny_v that_o this_o remedy_n be_v needful_a in_o any_o church_n above_o a_o national_a church_n answ_n 1._o if_o this_o remedy_n be_v not_o needful_a in_o any_o church_n above_o a_o national_a than_o the_o rule_n do_v not_o universal_o hold_v true_a that_o the_o remedy_n complaint_n to_o the_o church_n must_v be_v as_o large_a as_o the_o malady_n offence_n and_o so_o our_o purpose_n be_v gain_v for_o our_o purpose_n in_o that_o place_n be_v to_o prove_v this_o very_a thing_n by_o this_o same_o instance_n of_o the_o offence_n of_o a_o national_a church_n wherein_o mr._n rutherford_n we_o see_v do_v come_v over_o to_o we_o and_o affirm_v the_o same_o that_o we_o do_v to_o what_o end_n therefore_o be_v it_o to_o make_v show_n of_o remove_v or_o weaken_v what_o he_o have_v say_v since_o when_o it_o come_v to_o the_o issue_n he_o plain_o concur_v with_o we_o for_o by_o this_o mean_v our_o tenant_n be_v not_o confute_v but_o confirm_v with_o his_o attest_v thereto_o 2._o though_o here_o he_o say_v this_o remedy_n be_v not_o needful_a in_o any_o church_n above_o a_o national_a yet_o i_o be_o mistake_v if_o elsewhere_o he_o speak_v not_o otherwise_o for_o in_o pag._n 311._o prepound_v this_o objection_n viz._n christ_n here_o speak_v of_o a_o present_a and_o constant_a removal_n of_o scandal_n a_o catholic_a council_n of_o the_o whole_a visible_a church_n be_v far_o of_o and_o can_v be_v have_v he_o return_v this_o for_o answer_v thereto_o that_o christ_n say_v he_o speak_v of_o a_o present_a and_o constant_a remedy_n only_o and_o of_o no_o remedy_n against_o the_o scandal_n of_o whole_a church_n be_v deny_v he_o speak_v of_o all_o remedye_n to_o gain_v any_o offender_n person_n or_o church_n and_o in_o pag._n 322._o he_o say_v christ_n give_v a_o instance_n only_o in_o a_o offend_a brother_n but_o the_o doctrine_n be_v for_o the_o cure_n of_o a_o offend_a church_n also_o and_o for_o all_o person_n to_o be_v gain_v thou_o have_v gain_v thy_o brother_n and_o say_v he_o we_o be_v to_o gain_v church_n as_o we_o be_v not_o to_o offend_v church_n 1_o cor._n 10._o 32._o again_o in_o his_o second_n pag._n 332._o speak_v of_o five_o sort_n of_o synod_n of_o which_o he_o call_v the_o five_o the_o general_a and_o oecuminick_n council_n he_o say_v that_o all_o these_o differ_v not_o in_o essence_n but_o in_o degree_n and_o what_o word_n of_o god_n as_o matth_n 18._o 16_o 17._o prove_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o one_o be_v for_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o all_o the_o five_o sort_n of_o synod_n last_o nothing_o can_v be_v more_o plain_a than_o those_o word_n pag._n 39_o this_o of_o our_o saviour_n tell_v the_o church_n be_v necessary_o to_o be_v apply_v to_o all_o church_n and_o court_n of_o christ_n even_o to_o a_o catholic_a council_n the_o same_o be_v also_o to_o be_v see_v in_o the_o peaceable_a plea_n p._n 86._o in_o all_o which_o saying_n he_o plain_o understand_v the_o text_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n to_o speak_v of_o a_o remedy_n for_o all_o that_o be_v to_o be_v gain_v yea_o a_o remedy_n for_o the_o offence_n of_o all_o person_n and_o church_n that_o may_v give_v offence_n which_o church_n he_o say_v may_v do_v and_o express_o affirm_v that_o it_o be_v to_o be_v apply_v to_o general_a counsel_n and_o that_o necessary_o and_o how_o these_o thing_n do_v agree_v with_o the_o place_n in_o hind_n where_o he_o say_v he_o deny_v the_o remedy_n be_v needful_a in_o any_o church_n above_o a_o national_a let_v the_o wise_a and_o himself_o judge_v for_o for_o my_o part_n except_o there_o be_v some_o difference_n between_o necessary_a and_o needful_a the_o say_n to_o i_o do_v seem_v inconsistent_a one_o affirm_v the_o place_n be_v necessary_o to_o be_v apply_v to_o all_o church_n and_o court_n of_o christ_n even_o to_o general_a counsel_n and_o the_o other_o deny_v that_o the_o remedy_n there_o mention_v be_v needful_a in_o any_o church_n above_o a_o national_a 2._o christ_n remedy_n say_v he_o be_v a_o church_n remedy_n for_o offence_n among_o the_o brethren_n and_o member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n and_o indian_n be_v nomember_v of_o the_o visible_a church_n and_o so_o be_v without_o they_o can_v be_v judge_v 1_o cor._n 5._o 12._o answ_n that_o indian_n can_v be_v judge_v by_o the_o church_n be_v very_o true_a but_o nothing_o against_o we_o for_o the_o very_a same_o that_o here_o be_v say_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n be_v say_v by_o we_o before_o in_o the_o place_n which_o himself_o do_v allege_v where_o we_o also_o bring_v the_o very_a same_o text_n of_o scripture_n which_o himself_o do_v bring_v now_o why_o shall_v these_o thing_n be_v bring_v as_o a_o confutation_n of_o we_o which_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o reception_n of_o that_o which_o we_o have_v deliver_v afore_o as_o our_o own_o judgement_n may_v not_o his_o reader_n be_v induce_v hereby_o to_o think_v that_o we_o have_v speak_v otherwise_o but_o to_o let_v this_o pass_v if_o indian_n can_v be_v judge_v by_o the_o church_n than_o still_o our_o purpose_n be_v gain_v for_o by_o this_o it_o appear_v that_o a_o offence_n may_v be_v commit_v where_o christ_n remedy_n tell_v the_o church_n may_v not_o be_v apply_v for_o the_o redress_n thereof_o and_o so_o that_o universal_a proposition_n christ_n remedy_n be_v as_o large_a as_o the_o malady_n and_o where_o a_o offence_n may_v be_v commit_v there_o to_o tell_v the_o church_n be_v the_o remedy_n for_o the_o redress_n of_o the_o same_o which_o our_o brethren_n do_v lay_v as_o the_o foundation_n on_o which_o to_o build_v the_o jurisdiction_n of_o class_n and_o synod_n the_o universality_n i_o say_v of_o this_o proposition_n be_v utter_o overthrow_v by_o this_o instance_n of_o indian_n and_o so_o that_o scripture_n matth._n 18._o appear_v to_o be_v too_o weak_a a_o bottom_n to_o bear_v the_o building_n which_o our_o brethren_n will_v erect_v upon_o it_o nor_o be_v the_o matter_n much_o amend_v by_o that_o which_o our_o brother_n here_o bring_v for_o the_o help_a and_o clear_v of_o it_o that_o christ_n remedy_n be_v a_o church_n remedy_n for_o offence_n among_o brethren_n member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n for_o let_v this_o be_v grant_v as_o i_o know_v none_o that_o deny_v it_o yet_o still_o the_o question_n remain_v what_o be_v that_o church_n to_o which_o our_o saviour_n here_o give_v power_n to_o remove_v and_o redress_v scandal_n by_o excommunicate_v the_o offender_n we_o conceive_v this_o church_n be_v only_o the_o particular_a congregation_n and_o its_o presbytery_n and_o our_o brethren_n think_v it_o be_v also_o the_o class_n and_o synod_n but_o this_o apprehension_n of_o they_o be_v not_o confirm_v by_o say_v our_o saviour_n remedy_n be_v a_o church_n remedy_n for_o offence_n among_o member_n of_o the_o church_n inasmuch_o as_o the_o member_n of_o a_o national_a church_n as_o such_o be_v member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o our_o brethren_n judgement_n and_o yet_o our_o brother_n hold_v here_o be_v nor_o remedy_n prescribe_v for_o a_o delinquent_n national_a church_n and_o if_o he_o can_v so_o