Selected quad for the lemma: doctrine_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
doctrine_n	church_n	faith_n	infallible_a	4,769	5	9.6004	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A14657	The svmme of a dispvtation betweene Mr. VValker, pastor of St. Iohn Euanglists [sic] in Watling-street London, and a popish priest calling himselfe Mr. Smith, but indeed Norrice assisted by other priests and papists : held in the presence of some worthy knights, with other gentlemen of both religions.	Walker, George, 1581?-1651.; S. N. (Sylvester Norris), 1572-1630.	1624 (1624)	STC 24960.5; ESTC S2955	22,486	46

he would desire no more for the victorie Yea saith hee if you haue read Doctor Whitakers you know that he holds as I doe and that you wilfully and falsely father on him things vntrue Mr. Smith Mr. Smith enraged with this answer protested what he had said was true and the more to perswade the standers by he added more specially that Doctor Whitakers doth in his writings maintaine that the whole essence of the true Church consists onely in the true preaching of the word and the right administration of the Sacraments which are things visible Mr. Walker Sir I doe not loue to contend by oathes and protestations but by proofes I will here write downe your wordes which he did and read them in the hearing of all and asked if hee had not truly written and all assented he had Then hee proceeded thus I doubt not sir but you haue learned Logick and doe knowe that the definition of a thing doth expresse the whole essence and that what a man defines a thing to be that he holds to be the essence of it Tell me here doe you not grant this Mr. Smith I doe Mr. Walker Well then it must be granted that Doctor Whitaker doth hold that to be the essence of the Church which he doth comprehend in the definition of the Church Now his definition of the Church is Coelus electorum fid●lum A company of elect and faithfull men and he proues against Bellarmine that none can be seene with the eye to be members of the Catholike Church because the elect onely faithfull and godly belong to it whose graces are inuisible and not hypocrites and reprobates as Bellarmine doth hold Dare you deny this Mr. Smith I am sure he holds as I said before that the whole essence of the Church consists in true preaching of Gods word and in administration of the Sacraments Mr. Walker Because I will not spend time in contesting with you let this be the issue before these Gentlemen let vs send for Doctor Whitakers workes and if I doe not shew that he doth proue against Bellarmine that the Catholike Church is inuisible and that this is a maine point largely disputed by him and a maine controuersie betweene him and Bellarmine let mee be branded with the marke of a wilfull lyer impostore and false prophet But if I shew it presently before them all out of his owne writings then shall you confesse your selfe a forger and falsifier an impostor and a priest of Baal The Gentlemen all confessed that this was faire play and desired it might bee so Whereupon Mr. Smith began to draw backe and shewed himselfe vnwilling and much affraid to hazard his credit so quickly and would gladly haue left this point and fallen into another But Mr. Walker proceeded on this wise and said Gentlemen it is true that Doctor Whitakers maintaines that the Word truly preached and the Sacraments rightly administred are the certaine and infallible notes and markes by which euery true particular Church may be discerned to bee Christs true church and you know that the markes of a thing differ from the essence and substance of it as the signe hanging at the dore of a Tauerne and shewing that house to be a Tauerne differs from the Tauerne it selfe and the habit and Cowle of a Monke or Frier which is the marke of his order differs from the Monke himselfe and is not any part of his essence I beseech you therefore take notice of the boldnesse and impudency of popish Priests how they can snatch here and there a speech out of our learned mens writings without any vnderstanding of it and thereby make show as if they had throughly read those Authors yea and can in common talke and in titles of their printed pamphlets professe that they haue confuted Whitakers Reignolds Field Perkins and many others whose bookes they neuer durst reade throughly neither haue the hardinesse to sift any of their maine arguments I assure you that as you see this which I say here verefied so I finde it a common thing among them all Mr. Smith Mr. Smith and all his company on his side were very vnwilling to insist any longer vpon this point therfore answered nothing but presently proceeded to another question and asked Mr. Walker Whether the whole militant Church on earth may erre Mr. Walker I answer that this question is captious and ambiguous and cannot directly in one word negatiue or affirmatiue bee answered my reasons are these First because the whole militant Church if such a Church may be acknowledged is nothing but the whole number of particular Churches militant on earth and in diuers points they doe differ among themselues and it is impossible for any man to finde out the iudgement of them all in euery point as it is impossible to gather them all at once into one place Secondly it may bee said both that it may erre and also that it cannot erre in diuers respects and considerations if wee consider it by it selfe alone as it is militant and according to the militancy and weaknesse of it as I may so speake we grant that it may erre and in euery particular part of it there may bee found some errors but if we consider it according vnto the relation and dependance which it hath vpon the Triumphant Church and the assistance which it hath from Christ his Prophets and Apostles vpon whose doctrine and Scriptures it doth wholly cast it selfe and builds all the doctrines of faith so it cannot erre for in so doing it doth follow infallible guides euen as the Apostle saith of a man regenerate and borne of God that he cannot sinne 1 Ioh. 3. to wit in the maine against the maine precepts of the Gospell Beleeue and Repent for he cannot fall into impenitency and infidelity because the seede of God euen his holy Spirit abides in him But that he hath sinne and doth lie if he saith he hath none to wit through infirmity and weakenesse of the flesh So likewise it is truely said of the true Church and euery part thereof that as it builds onely on the Scriptures and doth vrge no doctrine of faith of necessity to be beleeued but such as the Scriptures teach So it cannot erre no more then the Scripture for this is a work of infallible faith But because all men liuing in the Church haue as infirmities of life so imperfections in iudgement and some peruersnesse in affections and therefore may faile in conceiuing some doubtfull and obscure places of Scripture amisse or in cleauing not so close to the word as they ought or following their owne affections to much as we see in all the writings of the Fathers and in the most part of the generall Councells in this respect we truly say that the Church militant may erre Mr. Smith You doe what you can to keepe off and not to come to the point but I will bring you to it doe what you can if you will answer me

THE SVMME OF A DISPVTATION BETWEENE Mr. VVALKER Pastor of St. Iohn Euanglists in Watling-street London and a popish Priest calling himselfe Mr. Smith but indeed Norrice assisted by other Priests and Papists HELD IN THE PRESENCE OF some worthy Knights with other Gentlemen of both Religions Printed 1624. The summe of a Disputation bebetweene Mr. Walker Pastor of St Iohn Euangelists in Watling street in London And a popish Priest calling himselfe Mr. Smith but indeed Norrice assisted by other Priests and Papists May last 1623. held in the presence of some worthy Knights with other Gentlemen of both Religions The occasion of the Disputation SIr William Harington Knight hauing a Kinsman of the Romish Catholike Religion by much reasoning with him and many perswasions had brought him to wauering so that he stood in doubt which was the true religion and desired to be satisfied The forenamed Priest Mr. Smith alias Dr. Norrice for the setling and hardening of him in the popish religion told him that the Protestant Church of England vnto which he seemed to incline had no faith neither indeed was it any Church of Christ at all and also challenged his kinsman Sir William Harrington to bring any Minister of the English Church whatsoeuer into any conuenient place of meeting and he would by disputation and by inuincible arguments proue against him before their faces and in their hearing that English Protestants had neither Church nor faith Sir William Harrington did take his offer vpon condition that he would answer to such questions as the Diuine which he would bring should propound against the Romish religion it was agreed the day and place appoynted Whereupon Sir William requesting a reuerend Doctor of his acquaintance to take the charge vpon him hee being to preach in his charge vpon a necessary occasion the very day which was appointed sent him to Mr. Walker whom he assured him to be a man ready for such a purpose And who at the first motion vpon a dayes warning embraced the offer promised to come the next day to Sir William and to attend him to the place of meeting And Sir William requesting him to name before hand some questions opposite to the Romish religion which hee would dispute vpon against the Priests he gaue him these three following 1. That the present Church of Rome is the Whore of Babylon 2. That the Pope is Antichrist 3. That the Popish doctrine of Peters being Bishop of Rome is a forged fable contrary to the Scriptures These positions Sir William Harrington sent to the Priest that he might arme himselfe for the defence The next day Mr. Walker came to Sir Williams lodgings to dinner and accompanied him and Sir Edward Harwood with some other Gentlemen to a priuate house by the Thames side where they found some Romish Catholike Gentlemen and they said Smith with other Priests Before they entred into disputation Mr. Smith alias Norrice called Master Walker a side and desired that the disputation might be performed louingly and sweetly with all mildenesse and without bitter words or byting speeches Mr. Walker answered that he desired to byte and gall no aduersary but with sound reasons which do most commonly cut to the quicke such as defend errors as for other speeches he promised for his part to be milde or sharpe according to the behauiour of his Aduersaries And thus they proceed to a formall manner of disputation the one sitting downe at the one end of a Table the other at the other end and the auditors sitting along on both sides and some standing about in a large vpper Parlor But first Mr. Walker desired a Bible vnto which they might appeale and by which testimonies of Scriptures which both parties alleaged might bee tried whereupon there were two Bibles brought and agreed vpon the one a vulgar Latine which the Counsell of Trent and the whole Romish Church holds to be most authenticall the other an English Bible for the standers by to looke vpon Then Mr. Smith alias Norrice begins first with an apologie for himselfe telling the gentlemen that he had of late by reason of some bodily infirmity beene forced to take Phisicke and to vse a dyet drinke and therefore if his memory should faile or if paine in his head should force him to breake off abruptly desired them to beare with him and to haue him excused By which he seemed wisely to prouide before hand for a lesse shamefull flight if he found the fight too hot and sharpe for him to be endured Mr. Walker on the other side desired that they might goe to it hand to hand and but one speake at once for auoiding of confusion that the disputation might be in short syllogismes and desired also that the Arguments the answers might be writ downe for preuenting all false relation and misreports afterward and withall did put it to the Aduersaries choyce whether he would oppose or answer first Mr. Smith desired that hee might first dispute vpon his owne questions and promised that afterwards he would answer Mr. Walker disputing vpon his questions It was agreed vpon And thereupon he putting off his hat and crossing his face and breast began to speake to Mr. Walker as followeth Mr. Smith alias Norrice Sir I haue here receiued three questions from you which you haue taken vpon you to proue by Argument I haue here written downe and will relate them vnto you First you say you will proue the Pope to be Antichrist 2. The Church of Rome to be the whore of Babylon 3. That St. Peter was not Bishop of Rome as we hold These questions are such as are not fit to be named much lesse to be disputed or answered they are deliuered in tearmes very vnseemely and vnmannerly for what can be more vnfit or vnseemly then this that you should call the holy Father the Pope Antichrist and the Church of Rome the whore of Babylon now in these dayes when it pleaseth the Kings Maiestie to giue the Pope that honour as to send and sue to his holinesse for a dispensation for the marriage of thr Prince his sonne I pray you therefore let vs haue no more of these questions but let vs haue some other or else propound them in other tearmes as that the Church of Rome is not the true Church or the like As you see I haue done in that I haue vsed milder words in my questions holding that you protestants in England haue no Church nor faith Mr. Walker Seeing it is your pleasure thus to speake at large in loose speech and not in strict Syllogisme I will answer you in your kinde First I maruell that you are not ashamed to slaunder the Kings Maiestie with honouring of the Pope by suing to him for dispensation which we all know he will neuer doe because he hath not onely said that he is Antichrist but also publikely in his learned writings proued him so to be and the Romish Church to be the whore of Babylon I warrant