Chapter hoping by Gods grace to vse such perspicuitie in handling this difficult question as shal bee to the contentment of all indifferent Readers CAP. VIII Shewing who is the right Iudge of the holy Scripture and word of God ALbeit the holy Scripture be the infallible rule of Faith and the true Touchstone by which all doctrines are bee examined and tryed as is already proued yet will controuersies neuer haue a peaceable end vnles some speciall iudges bee appointed to decide and determine the same For as the old Prouerbe saith So many heads so many wittes Out of one and the selfe same Scripture one man gathereth one sense an other man an other sense For the perspicuous vnderstanding wherof I put downe these Paragraffes The first Paragraffe The examination of doctrine is of two sortes the one is priuate the other is publike Priuate examination is that vpon which euery man doth build and stablish his owne faith For as the Prophet sayeth The iust man shall liue by his faith And as the great Popish Doctor Aquinas writeth the former obiect of our faith or that which wee formally belieue is God himselfe or that which God hath reuealed to vs and not that which man telleth vs. For sayeth hee faith doth not yeelde assent to any thing but because it is reuealed of God The publike examination of doctrine pertayneth to the common consent of the Church for the peaceable gouernance thereof For GOD is not the Author of confusion but of peace The Second Paragraffe As the examination of doctrine is of two sorts so are the examiners and the iudges of two sortes also that is to say publike and priuate The Publike iudges are all the Ministers of the Church by what name or title soeuer they bee called The priuate Iudges are all the faithfull seuerally by themselues in all matters pertayning to Faith and the saluation of their owne soules That all the faithfull are priuate Iudges it may be easily proued by many textes of holy writte First by this text of S. Iohn beleeue not euery spirit but trie the spirits if they bee of God Secondly by this text of S. Paule trie all thinges and keepe that which is good Thirdly by this text of the same Apostle the spirituall man iudgeth all thinges These texts the two famous Papistes Nicholaus de Lyra and Dionysius Carthusianns expounde of thinges pertayning to saluation which say they all the faithfull are able to trie And which is to bee wondred at the Iesuite Bellarmine vnawares confesseth the same These are his expresse wordes Duo vel tres congregati in nomine Christi obtinent semper quod petunt a Deo nimirum sapientiam lumen quod sufficit eis ad cognoscenda ea quae ipsis necessaria sunt Sequitur itaque siue pauci siue multi siue priuati siue Episcopi congregentur in nomine Christi omnes habent Christum praesentem adiuuantem obtinent quod eis conuenit obtinere Two or three gathered together in the name of Christ do at all times obtaine that of God which they desire at his handes to witte Wisedome and vnderstanding which is sufficient for them to know those thinges which are necessarie for them Therefore whether fewe or many whether Priuate persons or Bishoppes bee gathered in the name of Christ they all haue Christes presence they all haue Christes helpe they all obtayne that which is meete and conuenient for them Thus sayeth our Iesuite And doubtlesse it is meete for euery one to know all thinges necessary for his saluation it can not be denied Out of these wordes I note first that whosoeuer are gathered together in Christes name they all obtayne of GOD so much vnderstanding and knowledge as is necessarie for Saluation I note secondly that God is as well present in the assemblie of priuate men as in the Synode of Bishoppes I note thirdly that God helpeth priuate men and is present with them at all times euen as hee is with Bishops Whereupon I must needes inferre that the thinges concluded by secular persons in their assemblies for matters pertayning to their soules health doe no lesse proceed from GOD then doe the Decrees of Bishoppes And consequently the Iesuite will hee nill hee must perforce confesse that priuate secular and meere Lay-men can and may iudge in matters of Religion in matters of Faith in matters concerning their own soules health And all this is nothing else in deed but euen that which Christ himselfe hath plainly taught vs. Where two or three sayth Christ are gathered togither in my name there am I'in the midst of them I proue the same doctrine because Christs sheepe as Christ the great sheepheard telleth vs know his voyce and follow him but will not follow a straunger This place doubtlesse doth conuince For if the sheepe know the voice of the sheepheard as Christ saith they do then must the sheepe perforce iudge of the voice of the sheepheard For otherwise it will follow that a man cannot discerne that which hee knoweth Melchior Canus faith plainly that the holy Ghost teacheth euery one all things necessarie to saluation This veritie is confirmed by an other testimonie of our Lord Iesus if any man sayth he will do his will the will of God hee shall know of the doctrine whether it be of God or whether I speake of my selfe Loe the knowledge of Gods word proceedeth from the doing of his will But the doing of Gods will pertaineth to all both great and small as well to priuate lay-men as to ecclesiastical persons though they be the Bishops of Rome And for this cause sayth the great Papist Panormitan his words you may reade in the sixt chapter of this discourse that the iudgement of a meere lay-man must be preferred before the iudgement of the Pope if that priuate lay-man haue better reasons gathered out of the old and new Testament then are the reasons of the Pope See the aunswere to the Obiection in the fourth Paragraffe and note it will To conclude holy Writ telleth vs that the Bereans did search the Scriptures to see if they were according to Saint Paules doctrine And let this suffice for the iudgement of priuat persons and meerlay-men Now that all ministers Archbishops Bishops and other pastors of the Church may iudge of the sense of the holy Scripture it is a thing so cleare and manifest as little or nothing need be said thereof For Saint Paule saith that Bishops by which worde he vnderstandeth all the Ministers of the Church must haue great care that false doctrine be not taught This the Papists freely graunt of Bishops denying the same in other inferior ministers of the Church But I will proue the assertion to be verified of all ministers in generall First because Saint Paul committeth the gouernment of the church to al the ministers in differently calling them Bishops that is ouerseers of the
may be a sufficient confutation of the same Onely Victoria a verie learned popish Doctor shall conclude this section His wordes are these Paulatim ad hanc c. By little and little we are brought to these inordinate dispensations and to this so miserable state where we are neither able to endure our owne griefes nor remedies assigned for the same Giue me Clements Lines Syluesters and then I will commit all things to their charge But to speake nothing grieuously against these latter Popes they are doubtlesse inferiours to Popes of olde time by many degrees Here is falshood enough but certaintie of iudgement none can be had Sect. IIII. Of the Popes priuate errors THat the Bishops of Rome may become heretiques yea that they haue beene heretiques de facto it is so cleare a thing as I shall not neede to stand long about the same Many Popish decrees tell vs that Popes may be deposed when and so often as they swarue from the Christian faith and become heretiques in deed Which Decrees perforce must presuppose that the Popes may be heretiques otherwise they should be frustrate and to no ende at all These are the words Cunctos ipse Papa iudicaturus à nemine est iudicandus nisi deprehendatur a fide deuius The Pope iudgeth all and must be iudged of none vnlesse hee swarue from the faith and bee an heretique Lo the Popes owne Decrees doe plainely graunt that the Pope may be an heretique and then God be thanked he hath a superiour and iudge vpon earth So he may lawfully be controlled yea condemned vnlesse hee keepe the Christian fayth better then many popes haue done Againe in another decree I find these expresse wordes Oues quae suo pastori commissae sunt eum nec reprehendere nisi á fide exorbitauerit nec vllatenus accusare possunt Sheepe which are committed to their pastor may neither rebuke him nor in any wise accuse him vnlesse he depart and forsake the faith Dominicus Soto a great Papist hath these expresse wordes Quamuis Papa vt Papa errare non possit hoc est statuere errore nequeat tanquam articulum fidei quia spiritus sanctus id non permittet tamen vt singularis persona errare in fide potest sicut alia peccata committere Albeit the Pope as Pope cannot erre that is to say can not set downe any errour as an article of our faith because the holy Ghost will not that permit neuerthelesse as he is a priuate person so may he erre euen in fayth as he may do other sinnes Pope Anastasius Pope Honorius Pope Iohn and others haue beene heretikes as Viguerius Melchior Canus Alphonsus and Adrianus who was Pope himselfe confesse and no wise papist will or can denie the same Nicholaus de Lyra a verie learned and famous papist hath these expresse wordes Ex quo patet quod Ecclesia non consistit in hominibus ratione potestatis vel dignitatis Ecclesiasticaevel secularis Quia multi principes summi pontifices alii inferiores inuenti sunt apostatasse a fide Whereby it is euident that the Church doth not consist in men by reason of power or dignitie either ecclesiasticall or secular because many princes and popes and others of the inferior sort are found to haue swarued from the faith and to haue beene flat Apostataes Iosephus Angles a famous popish Bishop and religious Frier in his booke dedicated to the Pope himselfe confirmeth this matter in these wordes Papa haereticus aut apostata ab vniuersali concilio deponi potest ratio est quia sicut nullus potest esse alicuius religionis praelatus qui non sit in illa religione prosessus ita neque potest esse Papa si fide Ecclesiae careat The Pope being an heretique or apostata may bee deposed by a generall Concell and the reason is because as none can be a Prelate of any Religion which is not professed in that religion so neither can he be Pope that holdeth not the faith of the Church Thus it is cleare euen by popish Doctors and Decrees that the Pope as a priuate person may forsake the Christian fayth teach false doctrine and become a flat Apostata The Pope therefore in his priuate person can not be a competent iudge Sect. V. Of the Popes publique errours in his generall and definitiue Decrees and constitutions DOctor Gerson a famous Papist and Chauncellour of Paris teacheth so plainely that Popes may erre in their publique doctrine of faith and maners as none can doubt there of that ponder well his words thus therefore doth he write Hos fecit latroni qui veri similiter nondum compleuerat poenetentiā pro omnibus peccatis suis qui fuit illa hora propria beatisicatus vidit Deum facie ad faciem sicut sancti in Paradiso propter quod insuper apparet falsitas doctrinae Papae Iohannes 22. quae damnata fuit cum sono buccinarum coram rege Philippo per Theologos Parisienses credidit potius Theologis Parisiensibus quam curiae This did he to the theefe which by likelihood had not yet accomplished pennance for all his sinnes who was blessed in that verie houre and saw God face to face as do the Saints in Paradise by reason whereof appeareth further the falshoode of the doctrine of Pope Iohn which was condemned by the sound of Trumpets before King Philip by the diuines of Paris and the king beleeued rather the diuines then the court of Rome Out of these wordes the indifferent Reader wil easily note with me these important poynts First that the theefe crucified with Christ did see God face to face in that verie houre and so was blessed Secondly that hee reprooueth the false doctrine of Pope Iohn Thirdly that his doctrine was condemned with the sound of trumpets in the presence of the King of France Fourthly that the king gaue more credite to the Diuines of Paris then to the iudgement of the Court of Rome that is then to the Pope and his Cardinals A poynt well worthie to bee noted Fiftly that neither the king nor the learned Papists did in those dayes graunt such authoritie to the Pope as now a dayes the Pope chalengeth to himselfe Whereupon it followeth consequently that the Pope taught false doctrine euen in a weightie matter of faith To which is consectarie that his doctrine was publique as which was publiquely condemned at Paris in the presence of the king Pope Adrian testifieth the same truth as witnesseth the zealous Papist Alphonsus in these expresse wordes Nouissime fertur de Iohanne 22. quod publice docuit declarauit ab omnibus teneri mandauit quod animae purgatae ante finale iudicium non habent stolam quae est clara facialis visio Dei vntuersitatem Parisiensem ad hoc induxisse dicitur quod nemo in ea poterat gradum in Theologia adipisci nisi primitus hunc errorem iurasset se
sum ipsi sint mecum What doubt is there did he pray for Peter and did he not also pray for Iames and Iohn to say nothing of the rest it is cleare that in Peter all the rest are meant because he sayeth in an other place I pray for these O Father which thou hast giuen me and desire that they may bee with mee where my selfe am Origen a learned and very auncient father affirmeth in a large discourse vpon S. Mathew that all things spoken of Peter touching the church the keyes are to be vnderstood of all the rest And the collection of Origen is euident euen by natural reason For if Christ prayed not aswell for the rest as he did for Peter of small credite were a great parte of the holy scripture A reason doubtles insoluble for all Papistes in the world For if they could faile in their faith they could also faile in their writing and yet that they could not so faile was by vertue of Christes prayer This my aunswere is farther confirmed by the testimonie of learned and approued Papistes Panormitanus was their skilfull Canonist their religious Abbot and their renowmed Archbishop and consequently his authority must needs gall and confound them all His words are these Et pro hactantum Christus in Euangelio or auit ad patrem ego rogaui pro te And for this he meaneth the vniuersal Church Christ onely prayed to his Father in the gospell when he said I haue prayed for thee that thy faith faile not Behold here gentle Reader and yeelde thine indifferent censure When Christ saith the great Papist Panormitane prayed that Peters faith should not faile hee prayed for the faith of the vniuersall Church whose faith shall neuer faile indeede And the saide Panormitane proueth his opinion directly and strongly by many textes of the Popes Canon-law De Elect. Cap. significasti Alphonsus a Castro a religious Popish Carthusian hath these wordes Non dubitamus an haereticum esse papam esse coire in vnum possint infra non enim credo aliquem esse adeo impudentē papae assentatorē vt ei tribuere hoc velit vt nec errare nec in interpretatione sacrarum literarum hallucinaripossit We doubt not whether one man may be both a Pope and an Heretike together For I belieue there is none so shamelesse a flatterer of the Pope that will ascribe this vnto him that he can neyther erre nor bee deceyued in the exposition of the scriptures To these I must needes adde that all the doctors of the famous Vniuersity of Paris as our Iesuite Bellarmine freely graunteth doe expound Christs words in S. Luke euen as I haue proued out of Panormitane That is that Christ praied for the faith of the whole church or for Peters faith as he did represent the whole church And therefore our Iesuite doth easily reiect their exposition without all time and reason And hee telleth vs forsooth that Christ in his prayer obtayned two Priuiledges to Peter the one that his faith should neuer faile the other that neyther Peter neyther any in Peters seat should euer teach false doctrine But wise men I hope will belieue Bellarmines wordes when hee shall bring good proofes for the same For first my selfe haue proued most euidently euen by manifest Popish Testimonies that many Bishops of Rome haue taught false doctrine and become flat Apostataes Secondly Bellarmine himselfe confesseth freely that Peters Successors perhaps wanted the former prerogatiue and sometime became Heretikes but the latter saith hee they had vndoubtedly Which Exposition is easily retorted against himselfe because the former may as well if not better bee gathered out of the text as the latter And therefore Bellarmine presumeth to much vpon his owne credite when hee will without all reason enforce vs to expound Christes Gospell as hee listeth The second Obiection Christ commaunded the people to doe what soeuer the Scribes and the Pharisies willed them to obserue and this hee did onely because they sate in Moyses chaire But doubtles if they sitting in Moyses chaire could haue erred Christ would not haue commanded so strictly to obserue their doctrine The Aunswere Our Sauiour Christ seeing many thinges amisse in the Scribes and Pharisies thought it meete and conuenient to giue the people warning thereof And hee wisely tempereth his admonition least they should reiect the good together with the euill For to teach the Lawe and the Prophetes whith was to sitte in Moyses Chaire or to execute Moyses authoritie which was all one in effect was a thing very honest and lawfull Therefore Christ commanded the people to obey them and to doe whatsoeuer they did bid them doe But this must bee vnderstoode with this limitation so long as they taught and commaunded Ex Cathedra that is agreeably to Gods law not otherwise This to bee the true sense and meaning of Christs words I will proue euidently both by the Fathers and by the Testimonies of Nicholaus de Lyra and Dionysius Carthusianus two zealous and learned Papistes S. Austen hath these wordes Sedendo Cathedram Moysi legem Dei docent ergoper illos Deus docet sua vero illi si velint docere nolite audire nolite facere Certè n. tales sua quaerunt non quae Iesu Christi Sitting in the Chayre of Moyses they teach the Law of GOD therefore God teacheth by them But if they will needes teach their owne opinions and fantasies then heare them not doe not as they bid you do For doubtles such men seeke to please them selues and not to accomplish the will of Iesus Christ. S. Hilarie hath these wordes Cum igitur doctrina pharisaeorum ob id probabilis esse docetur quia ipsi in Mosi Cathedra sederunt doctrina necessariò significatur in Cathedra Seeing therefore that the doctrine of the Pharisies is for that proued to bee probable because they sate in the Chaire of Moses therfore by the Chaire must doctrine of necessitie be signified Thus writeth this great learned and auncient Father by whose iudgement it is plaine that the chaire of Moses and the doctrine of Moses is all one And consequently that not they which occupie the roome of Moses or Peter are to bee followed but they that teach the doctrine of Moses and Peter are to bee heard and their commaundement must be done Lyra hath these wordes Omnia quaecunque dixerint vobis facite Quia praelatis etiam malis est obediendam nisi in his quae sunt manifestè contra Deum Doe all things that they shall say vnto you because wee must obey euen those prelates that be euill vnlesse they teach plainly against God Dionysius Carthusianus hath these words Hoc non est absolute vniuersaliter intelligendum quia Scribae Pharisaei multa superstitiosa falsa docuerunt corumpentes scripturam irritum facientes verbum Dei per suas traditiones Intelligendum est ergo de
THE GOLDEN BALLANCE OF TRYALL VVherein the Reader shall plainly and briefely behold as in a Glasse of Crystall aswell by what rule all controuersies in Religion are to be examined as also who is and of right ought to be the vpright Iudge in that behalfe Whereunto is also annexed a Counterblast against a masked Companion terming himselfe E.O. but supposed to be ROBERT PARSONS the trayterous Iesuite Vos Vnctionem habetis a sancto nostis omnia 1. Ioh. 2. v. 20. Determinatio solius Papae in his quae sunt fidei non obligat vt praecise est talis ad credendum alioquin staret in casu quod quis obligaretur ad contradictoria vel ad falsum contra fidem Gerson prim part de examinat doctrinarum consider secunda LONDON Imprinted by Iohn Windet for Richard Bankworth dwelling in Paules Churchyeard at the Signe of the Sunne 1603. THE GOLDEN Ballance of Tryall CAP. I. Of the Vncertainety of Iudgements of all Bishoppes seuerally in themselues THE Prophet Dauid sheweth plainely the vncertainty of Iudgement when he telleth vs That all men are lyers The Prophet Ieremie cryeth aloude that the Gentiles in the end of the world shall come to him and shall freely confesse that their fore-fathers inherited lyes and vanitie S. Paule confirmeth the same telling vs that onely God is true and euery man a lyer The Prophet Malachie sheweth the whole matter to haue been verified in the Priestes of the old Law His words are these The Priestes lips shall keepe knowledge and they shall seeke the law at his mouth for he is the messenger of the Lord of Hostes but ye are gone out of the way ye haue caused many to fall by the law yee haue broken the couenant of Leui saith the Lord of Hosts yea this is it that the Prophet Ezechiel saith Then shall they seeke a vision of the Prophet but the Law shall perish from the priest counsel from the Elders The prophet Esay sayth The priest and the prophet haue erred by strong drink they are swallowed vp with wine they haue gone astray through strong drinke they faile in vision they stumble in iudgement this is it that Michah saieth The Heades thereof iudge for rewardes and the priestes thereof teach for hire the prophets thereof prophesie for money This is it that the prophet Sophonie sayeth Her prophets are light and wicked persons her priestes haue polluted the Sanctuarie they haue wrested the law This vncertainety of iudgement cannot be denied For Tertullian erred Montanizinge Cyprian Rebaptizinge Origen Cerporizinge Nazianzen Angelizinge Eusebius Arrianizinge Lactantius Millenizinge and the like may bee verified of all the Residue The sentence of two learned papistes highlie renowned in the Church of Rome shall conclude my Theame Iohn Fisher the late Bishop of Rochester hath these expresse wordes Nec Augustini nec Hieronymi nec alterius cutuslibet auctoris doctrinae sic ecclesia subscripsit quin ipsi locis aliquot ab iis liceat dissentire nam in nonnullis ipsi locis se planè monstrarunt homines esse atque nonnunquam aberrasse The Church hath not so subscribed eyther to the doctrine of Austen or of Hierome or of any other Writer but that we may somtime dissent from their opinions for themselues haue plainely shewed themselues to bee men and that they wanted not their errours the Iesuite Ballarmine hath these wordes Sine dubio singuli Episcopi errare possunt aliquando errant inter se quandoque dissentiunt vt nesciamus quisnam eorum sequendus sit Without doubt all Bishoppes seuerally may erre and doe sometime erre indeed and doe also sometime so dissent one from another that we cannot tell in the world which of them we may safely follow Out of the wordes of these Writers whereof the one was a learned Bishoppe and a popish canonized Martyr and the other a Iesuite and Popish Fryer who did dedicate his Booke to the Pope himselfe I gather these singular documents First that the Church of Rome giueth euery one liberty to dissent from Augustine Hieromie and other Writers whosoeuer Secondly that the Fathers haue plainely shewed themselues to be men and to haue had their imperfections accordingly Thirdly that many errours are to be found in the writinges of the Fathers Fourthly that the Fathers doe so dissent one from another that wee cannot tell whome we may safely follow These Fathers therefore seuerally may not be iudges in all matters of faith and religion CAP. II. Of the uncertainety of iudgement of many Bishops euen when they employ their wits and learning to teach one and the selfe same doctrine WE finde in holy Writte that the chiefest of the Priestes and people trespassed wonderfully according to all the abhominations of the Heathen and polluted the house of the Lord which he had sanctified in Ierusalem The Watchmen of Ephraim sayth Hoseah should bee with my God but the prophet is the snare of a fowler in all his wayes and hatred in the house of his God The Prophets saith Ieremie prophesie lies in my name I haue not sent them neither did I commaund them but they prophesie vnto you a false vision and diuination vanitie and deceitfulnes of their own heart The same Prophet sayth againe in an other place after this manner From the least of them to the greatest euery one is giuen to couetousnes and from the Prophet to the Priest they all deale falsly Their Watchmen saith Esay are all blind they haue no knowledge they are all dumbe dogs they cannot barke Many of the olde writers taught with vniforme consent that the soules of the faithful departed doe not see God vntill the day of generall doome To recite the wordes of a few may suffice for this time Lactantius hath these wordes Nec tamen quisquam putet animas post mortem protinus iudicari omnes in vna communique custodia detinentur donec tempus adueniat quo maximus iudex meritorum facit examen Yet may not any man thinke that the soules of the iust shal forth with after death haue their iudgement for they are all kept in one common prison vntill the time come when the great Iudge shall discusse euerie mans deserts Iustinus Martyr hath these wordes Neque enim ante resurrectionem vitae cuique peractae retributio contingit Iterum vtilitas latroni quod Paradisum sit ingressus haec finit quod fidei commodum re ipsa percepit per quod dignus reputatus est qui sanctorū caetui adiungeretur in quo vsque ad diem resurrectionis remunerationis reseruatur No man hath his rewarde before the day of resurrection The Theefe by going to Paradise had this benefite that he receiued in verie deed the fruit of his faith by which he was reported worthy of the Fellowship of Saintes where hee is reserued vntill the day of resurrection and remuneration Victorinus hath these
Apostolike rule that they must rather obey God then man I say secondly that though the Priestes be appointed to teach and the people to heare the Priestes in Gods name to commaund and the people to obey yet must all this be done Iuxta legem Dei according to Gods law Neither shall the people for all that contemne the authority of the Priestes but with humility admonish the priestes and tell them why they cannot so doe This lesson if the Papistes cannot be content to learne of me yet I hope they will not disdayne to learne it of S. Hierome seeing their Pope in their Collect vpon his festiuity termeth him Doctorem maximum their greatest Doctor His wordes are these Si Sacerdos est sciat legem Domini si ignorat legem ipse se arguit non esse Domini sacerdotem Sacerdotis enim est scire legem ad interrogationem respondere de lege Sequitur discant legem Dei vt possint docere quod didicerint augeant scientiam magis quam opes non erubescant a laicis discere qui nouerint ea quae ad officium pertinent sacerdotum If he be a Priest let him know the law of God if he be ignorant of the Law hee accuseth himselfe that hee is not the Priest of God For the Priestes office is to know the law and to aunswere to questions of the Law Let the Priestes learne Gods law that they may teach that which they haue learned and let them encrease knowledge rather then riches and let them not be ashamed to learne of the Lay people which know those things that pertaine to the Priestes office Out of these wordes of S. Hierome I note first that many Popes are no Priestes and consequently no Popes indeede though falsely supposed so to be S. Ieromes reason is plaine to euery child because many Popes are very vnlearned and know not the law of God neither preach his word which is the chiefest office of a Priest And who wil or can think that Christ Iesus if he had appointed the Bishops of Rome to rule his whole Church throughout the world and all nations to hang their Faith vpon the popes faith woulde in these dangerous times suffer them to liue dissolutely to be as dumbe dogs that barke not and neuer to preach and teach his word none doubtles that haue any wit sense or reason I note secondly that Priests must know the law of God to this end that they may teach the same And consequently that the Bishops of Rome who neuer preach the word of God cannot be the true Priests of God I note thirdly that the Bishops of Rome if they were true Priests indeed both shold and would encrease their knowledge in the law of God rather then their wealth and possessions I note fourthly that the true Priestes of God must not disdayne to learne of the Laicall sorte which are better learned then themselues I note fiftly that sheepe so called Metaphorically such as Christian people are who haue sence reason and learning and know the voyce of the great shephearde Christ Iesus as himselfe telleth vs may with all humility forsake those shepheardes who eyther for their ignorance cannot or for malice will not feed them with the pure word of God as they ought to doe For wise sheepe will not eate that meat which they know to be deadly poison to them For this cause doe the Popes owne Canons graunt libertie to the sheepe to reproue and accuse their Pastor yea though he be the Pope himselfe The expresse wordes of the Canon are these Oues quae suo Pastori commissae sunt eum nec reprehendere nisi a fide exorbitauerit nec vllatenus accusare possunt The sheepe which are committed to their Pastor may neyther rebuke him nor in any wise accuse him vnlesse hee forsake the faith Loe this Canon made of Pope Eusebius himselfe telleth vs two thinges First that the Pope may erre and forsake the Christian faith Secondly that when he doth so erre the sheepe may then reproue him and also accuse him And I am well assured that if the sheep may reproue and accuse the Pope as the Pope himselfe alloweth to bee done much more may the sheepe reproue and accuse other Bishops priests which are farre inferiour to the Pope See the answere to the second obiection The fift Obiection If the Pope had not authority from God himself to rule the vniuersall Church and to decide all controuersies in the same all the Christian worlde would neuer haue yeelded themselues unto him in matters of Faith and euerlasting saluation The Aunswere I say first that when Constantinus the Emperour departed from Rome to Constantinople the Pope then beganne to put out his Hornes and to chalenge the Emperiall authority in the west partes of the world And his flattering Parasites and greedy Sicophantes by false Pamphlets and glosses laboured to confirme his Lordly Titles These are the wordes of the Canon Constantinus Imperator coronam omnem regiam dignitatem in vrbe Romana in Italia in partibus occidentalibus Apostolico concessit The Emperour Constantine graunted to the Apostolicall man the Bishoppe of Rome his crowne and all royall dignitie aswell in the Citty of Rome and in Italie in all the west partes of the world Loe this was the first steppe to that Lordly Primacy and Antichristian tyranny which the Bishoppes of Rome this day chalenge in the Christian world This I say was the originall of Poperie though it bee a very fable and voide of all credite For Eusebius Theodoritus Socrates Sozomenus Eutropius Ruffinus Victor and other approued Writers who all haue writen the Actes of Constantine most diligently do not only make no mentiō of that gift but withal say plainely that the whole Empire was diuided among the three Sonnes of Constantine and that one of them had all Italie for his parte And Ammianus Marcellinus writeth that Constantius had the dominion of the Citty of Rome and that Leontius was his Lieutenant there Laurentius Valla hath written both learnedly largely against the false Donation of Constantine wherewith a great part of the world hath beene seduced To this I could adde many argumentes but that the Reader may find them in my motiues and Booke of Suruey I say secondly that the Maiestie of the Romane Empire and that liberality which the Romanes exhibited to the Martyres in Exile and otherwise afflicted gaue no small honour to the Cittie and church of Rome For the Councels had euer great respect to the dignity and excellency of Cities in the distribution of Episcopall and Patriarkall seates I say thirdly that the church of Rome kept defended a long time the pure and sincere doctrine of Christ Iesus For Saint Paule was beheaded there Saint Peter crucified there and many Bishops of Rome there put to death for confessing defending the Christian faith And hereupon it partly
cōsequently as we are enforced to grant that when we say Christes bodie is broken then is but the signe of his bodie broken euen so likewise are we enforced to graunt that when Christ saide This is my body hee gaue onely the signe and sacrament of his bodie The reason is euident because his bodie can no otherwise be eaten then it is broken that is to say sacramentally or in a signe or if you will so say figuratiuely or spiritually which is all one Here then is no certaintie of iudgement to be found CAP. 6. Shewing that generall Councels may erre THat generall Councels may erre and de facto haue erred euen in matters of faith it is so plaine as nothing can be more plaine when the truth thereof shall betold as it is in deed In the great and generall Councell of the Iewes in which were present as Christes Gospel telleth vs all the Priests the Scribes the Elders togither with the hie Priest Christ Iesus was condemned to death because he named himself the sonne of God Yea Caiphas the high Priest with the consent and assent of the whole Councell pronounced openly that Christ blasphemed when he called himselfe the sonne of God And yet is it euident to all Christian people and all Papists will and must confesse the same that the hie Priest Caiphas erred perniciously and vttered most execrable blasphemie when hee denied Christ to be the sonne of God and true Messias of the world The great and famous Councell of Lateran holden vnder Innocentius the third in which were present the Patriarkes of Hierusalem and Constantinople Metropolitanes 70 Bishops 400 Abbots 12 Priors Conuentuals 800 the Legates of the Greeke and Romane Empire the Orators of the Kinges of Hierusalem France Spaine Englande and Cypres either erred notoriously aboute the creation of Angels or at least made it euident to all the worlde that the decree of generall Councels is not an infallible rule of faith I proue this to bee so by two important reasons First because the Councell hath these wordes Firmiter credimus simpliciter confitemur quod vnus est solus Deus verus creator omnium visibilium inuisilium spiritualium corporalium qui simul ab initio temporis vtranque de nihilo condidit creaturam spiritualem corporalem angelicam scilicet mundanam We firmely beleeue and simplie confesse that there is one onely true God the creator of all things visible and inuisible spirituall and corporall who from the beginning of time created of nothing both creatures togither the spirituall and the corporall that is to say the angelicall and the terrestriall Secondly because great learned men and most renowmed fathers Gregorius Nazianzenus Basilius Magnus Ambrosius Hieronimus Damascenus doe all holde constantly that albeit the Angels had a beginning yet were they before the world was made And this their opinion is deemed probable both to Saint Austen and to the great School-doctor Aquinas Which Aquinas liued after the said Councell of Lateran and had read the same had also written Commentaries vpon this very Canon and consequently he did not repute the decree of the sayde Councell to be an infallible rule of fayth Loe the generall Councell held constantly and firmely beleeued that the Angels were created at one and the same time with the world But the holy fathers and the great Papist Aquinas thought the contrary opinion to be probable notwithstanding the decree of the Councell Whervpon it followeth of necessity that that is not alway the vndoubted truth which is decreed by a generall Councell For which end and purpose Melchior Canus a lerned popish bishop hath written most excellently in these wordes Non satis est vt Conciliorum Pontificum iudicia firma esse credantur in diuino officio publicè à tota etiam Ecclesia celebrari It is not enough to make the iudgements of Councels and Popes firme so as wee may safely beleeue them to celebrate the same publiquely in diuine seruice throughout the whole Church of God These are golden wordes they may not bee passed ouer rawly and negligently but we must firmely imprint them in our hearts And in so doing wee doubtlesse shall reape commoditie more then a little For if we cannot safely giue credite to the Popish seruice which is publiquely done in their Churches how can they or how dare they auouch their doctrine to bee agreeable to Gods worde Nay it is a worlde to heare that the Pope is not ashamed to enforce the worlde as much as in him lyeth to embrace and beleeue that new no Religion lately start vp Popish doctrine whereof the best Popish writers can giue no better reasons The generall Councell of Constance decreed firmely that it was lawfull to debarre the lay-people from the one part of the Eucharist to wit the cuppe And the generall Councell of Basill affirmeth constantly that so to holde and doe is not agaynst the holy institution And yet is it vndoubtedly true that the lay-people ought by Christes institution to receyue both the kindes Saint Paule writing to the vnpriested Corinthians may bee a sufficient proofe hereof For hee telleth them that they ought according to the commaundement which hee receyued of the Lord to drinke of the cuppe as well as to eate of the bread The matter is so plaine as I deeme it a thing needlesse to stand long vpon the same The Councel of Trent a famous general councell by Popish iudgemēt hath flatly decreed that to bee no matrimonie which was euer approued matrimonie in the Catholique Church and is this day perfect matrimonie by Christes institution The wordes of the Councell are these Dubitandum non est clandestina matrimonia libero consensu facta rata vera esse matrimonia quamdiu ecclesia ea irrita non fecit There is no doubt but clandestine and secrete matrimonies made with free consent were perfect and true matrimonies so long as the Church did not disanull the same Yet so it is gentle reader that such secret matrimonies are this day to bee reputed no matrimonies at all Of which kinde of matrimonies I haue written more at large in my booke of motiues That generall Councels may erre the sole and onely testimony of Panormitanus is sufficient and of force enough against all papists because hee was their famous Canonist their most reuerend Archbishop their renowmed Cardinall His expresse words are these nam in concernentibus fidem etiā dictum vnius priuati esset preferendum dicto Papae si ille moueretur melioribus rationibus noui veteris testamenti quam Papae Nec obstat si dicatur quod concilium non potest errare quia Christus orauit pro ecclesia sua vt nō desiceret quia dico quod licet cōcilium generale representet totam ecclesiam vniuersalem tamen in veritate ibi non est vera ecclesia vniuersalis sed representatiuè quia vniuersalis
ecclesia constituitur ex collectione omnium fidelium vnde omnes fideles orbis constituunt istam ecclesiam vniuersaleÌ„ cuius caput sponsus est ipse Christus Papa auteÌ„ est Vicarius Christi non verè caput ecclesiae vt notat glossa in Clem. ne Romani de elect Quae notabiliter dicit quod mortuo Papa ecclesia non est sine capite ista est illa ecclesia quae errare non potest For concerning maters of Faith euen the iudgement of one that is a meere Lay-man ought to be preferred before the sentence of the Pope if that Lay person could bring better reasons out of the old and new Testament then the Pope did And it skilleth not if one say that a Councell cannot erre because Christ prayed for his church that it should not fayle For I say that although a general Councell represent the whole vniuersall Church yet in truth there is not truely the vniuersall Church but representatiuely For the vniuersall Church consisteth of the collection of all the faithful Whereupon all the faithfull in the worlde make this vniuersall church which cannot erre wherof Christ himselfe is the head The Pope is the Vicar of Christ but not truely the heade of the church as noteth the Glosse vpon the Clementines which saith very well that when the Pope is dead the church wanteth not then an head and this is that Church which cannot erre Out of these wordes I note first that by the opinion of the great Papist Panormitan a meere laye mans iudgement euen in matters of faith ought to bee accepted and receyued before the Popes constitution if that Lay-man bring better reasons then doth the Pope I note secondly that through the wonderfull prouidence of God euen the enemies of the truth the Papists I meane are enforced to testifie the truth against themselues in their owne printed bookes For doubtles this Testimony of this Papist is the foundation of that doctrine which is this day established in the church of England and in all other reformed churches throughout the Christian world I note thirdly that a generall councell may erre because it is not the Catholike or vniuersall church indeed A generall councell therfore yeeldeth not any infallible iudgement CAP. VII Shewing that the holy Scripture is the sole and onely infallible rule of truth IN the former Chapters I haue shewed first that all Bishoppes may erre seuerally secondly that many Bishops may erre ioyntly together when they teach one and the selfe same thing Thirdly that the Pope or Bishoppe of Rome may erre not onely in his priuate opinion but also in his publike sentence and definition Fourthly that Prouinciall Councels may erre Fiftly that generall counsels may erre It therefore now remayneth that I find out and set down some such rule as is infallible and will not in any respect point or clause deceiue them that follow it and leane thervnto Which rule say I is the holy scripture the sole and onely written worde of God And I proue the same briefly first by the written word it selfe which telleth vs plainely that the holy scripture was written by the instinct of the holy Ghost euen as God himself appointed it to be done That prophesie came not in old time by the wil of man but holy men of God spake as they were moued by the holy Ghost That God is not as man that he should lie neyther as the sonne of man that he should repent I proue it secondly by the testimony of S. Dionyse Areopagita whose wordes are these Omnino igitur non audendum est quicquam de summa abstrusaque diuinitate aut dicere aut cogitare praeter ca quae nobis diuinitus scripturae diuinae enuntiarunt In no wise therfore may we make bold to speake or thinke any thing of the high and ineffable diuinity but that onely which holy writ hath reuealed to vs from aboue I proue it thirdly by the verdict of S. Austen in these wordes Ego solis eis scripturarum libris qui iam canonici appellantur hunc timorem honorem didici deferre vt nullum eorum authorem scribendo aliquid errasse firmissime credam Alios autem ita lego vt quantalibet sanctitate doctrinaque praepolleant non ideo veruÌ„ putem quia ipsi ita censuerunt sed quia mihi vel per illos auctores canonicos vel probabili ratione quod a veritate non abhorreat persuadere potuerunt I have learned to giue this feare and honour to those onely bookes of scripture which are called Canonicall that I firmely belieue no author therof to haue erred in any point but yet I reade others so that how holy or learned soeuer they bee I doe not by and by thinke it true because they say so but because they perswade me by those Canonicall Writers or by probable reason that that is true they say The same S. Austen in an other place telleth vs plainely that the holy Scripture is the rule of faith These are his wordes Sancta scriptura nostrae doctrinae regulam figit ne audiamus sapere plusquam oportet The holy Scripture setteth downe the rule of our doctrine that we presume not to be wiser then it is meete and conuenient The Iesuite Bellarmine whose words are most forceable against Papistes because he is the mouth of all Papistes confesseth plainely that the worde of God is the rule of faith that the written word because it is the rule hath this prerogatiue that whatsoeuer is contained in it is of necessitie true and must bee beleeued and whatsoeuer is repugnant to it is of necessitie false and must be reiected But because it is a partial rule and not the totall rule of faith thereupon it commeth that something is of faith which is not contayned in the same Thus writeth the Iesuite Out of whose wordes euerie child may gather that the scripture is the infallible rule of faith For although the Iesuite would make vnwritten traditions to bee a ioynt rule together with the written word whose opinion I haue disproued in my Booke of Motiues yet neyther doth hee neither can he deny but that all must bee reiected whatsoeuer is repugnant to the holy scripture By this my discourse hetherto it is cleare and euident to euery indifferent Reader that neither Fathers Popes nor councels prouinciall or generall are or can bee the infallible rule of faith but the sole and onely written word of God that is the holy Scripture But now remayneth a most intricate and dâ—fficult question who must bee the iudge of the Scripture that is who must determine and set downe what writinges what opinions what preachinges what doctrines are grounded vpon the Scriptures and are consonant to the same againe what opinions what Writinges and what doctrines are not grounded vpon the Scriptures nor are agreeable to the same Hic labor hoc opus est I therefore proceede to the next
name aswell as he doth a generall councell which thing I haue already proued I say thirdly that the great popish Archbishops Panormitanus telleth vs as is alreadie proued that a priuate mans iudgement is better then the Popes To which I must needes add the wordes of doctor Gerson the Chancellor of Paris and a renowmed popish writer which are these Quilibet homo doctus potest debet toti concilio risistere si videat illud ex malitia vel ignorantia errare Euerie one that is learned may and ought to resist and stand against a whole Councell if hee perceiue that the Councell erreth either of ignorance or of malice Lo all that I say is true euen by the popish doctrine And so no Papist can with reason denie or gain-say the same For first you see by Gersons doctrine that a generall Councell may erre Secondly that a priuate man both may and ought to withstand the Councell when the generall Councell would decree agaynst the truth Thirdly that lay-men haue euer beene present in Councels and there deliuered freely their opinions Which freedome by late popish tyrannie is this day banished out of the Church I say fourthly that Melchior Canus a famous Schoole-doctor and popish Bishop shall conclude and knit vp this discourse These are his expresse words Praestanti quod in se est Deus fidem ad salutem necessariam non negat Sequitur nō n. vnctio quemcunque simpliciter docet de omnibus sed quemque de his quae sunt ei propria necessaria Sequitur concedimus liberaliter doctrinam cuique in sua vita statu necessariam illi fore prospectam cognitam qui fecerit voluntatem dei Sicut n. gustus bene affectus differentias saporum facile discernit sic animi optima affectio facit vt homo doctrinam Dei ad salutem necessariam discernat ab errore contrario qui ex Deo non est To the man that doeth what in him lieth God neuer denieth faith necessarie to saluation For the vnction doth not simply teach euerie one euerie thing but it teacheth euerie one so much as is proper and necessarie for him And we grant freely that doctrine necessarie for euery mans life and state is sufficiently knowne to him that doth the will of God For like as the well affected taste doth easily discerne the differences of sauours or tastes so doth the good affection of the minde bring to passe that a man may discerne the doctrine of God necessarie to saluation from contrarie error which is not of God Thus writeth the grauest and rarest Papist for learning in the vniuersall worlde and consequently it is and must be of great force against the Papist whatsoeuer hath passed from his penne And I protest vnto thee gentle Reader that nothing hath more estraunged me from poperie and set me at defiance with it then the cleare and perspicuous doctrine of the best learned and most renowmed Papists For whosoeuer will seriously peruse the bookes that I haue published to the view of the world shall therein find confirmed by the doctrine of the best approued Papists euery poynt of setled doctrine in the Church of England Out of these wordes of this learned Papist I note first that when S. Iohn saith the vnction teacheth vs all things he meaneth not the difficult questions in Religion but all such poyntes as are necessarie for euerie mans saluation In note secondly that no man wanteth this knowledge and iudgement of doctrine but he that is willingly ignorant and will not applie himselfe to attaine the said knowledge I note thirdly that euerie priuate man is able to-iudge and discerne true doctrine from falsehoode and error so farre forth as is requisite for his saluation as well as a sound and good taste is able to discerne the differences of tastes Hereupon I inferre this necessarie cōsequent of popish doctrine against the Pope himselfe vz. that many wise godly and learned Bishops with other ministers of the church assembled in a nationall Synode at the command of their naturall Soueraigne are able to discerne so much truth from falshoode and error as is necessarie ether for their owne soules health or for the publique peace of the Church God graunt that this doctrine may take deepe roote in the hearts of the readers to his glorie the good of their soules and the peace of the Church Amen FINIS A COVNTERBLAST AGAINST THE VAINE BLAST OF A MASKED Companion who termeth himselfe E. O. but thought to be ROBERT PARSONS that trayterous Iesuite LONDON Printed by Iohn VVindet for Richard Bankworth dwelling in Paules Churchyard at the signe of the Sunne 1603. To the right worshipfull my approued good friend Maister John Bennet Doctor of the Ciuill law and one of her Maiesties Councell in the North partes of England IF I shoulde take vppon mee right worshipfull to discourse at large of the plots practises dealings and proceedings of our Iesuites and Iesuited persons time doubtles would sooner faile me then matter whereof to speake I haue verie lately published a discourse of this argument intituled The Anatomie of Popish tyrannie In it the Reader may view at large the doctrine the Religion the manners the natures the conuersation the practises and the whole proceedings of the English traiterous hispanized Iesuites So that now to recount the same were actum agere and a thing altogither needlesse One of these Iesuites hath lately published a most scandalous and rayling Libell against the reuerend and learned man of God master Doctor Sutcliffe as also agaynst master Willet In which Libell the said masked companion terming himselfe E. O. hath obiter disgorged some part of his bitter gall agaynst my selfe For the confirmation whereof that all the world may see his follie and consequently the follie of all the Iesuites who combine and conioyne in this affaire I haue addressed this Counterblast in which the indifferent Reader may plainly behold that the Iesuites and Seminaries can say nothing in deed to the doctrine contained in my Bookes howbeit they bestirre themselues with might and maine to dazell the eyes of the simple and sillie Papists that they shall not see the Sunne shining at noone tide The worke such as it is I dedicate vnto your worship in token of that gratitude which is due vnto you for your worships manifold kinde curtesies towardes mee Accept I pray you the present in good part not respecting so much the gift as the minde of the giuer The Almightie blesse your worship with manie happie yeares to his glorie the good of his Church and the benefite of your owne soule From my studie this 14. of Februarie 1602. Your worships most bounden THOMAS BELL. A COVNTERBLAST against the vaine blast of a masked Companion who termeth himselfe E. O. but thought to be Robert Parsons that trayterous Iesuite CAP. I. Of the manner of Iesuiticall Proceeding in all their seditious and scandalous libels THE Iesuites as the secular Priestes
gentle Reader to obserue these pointes with me First that it is one thing to publish wicked doctrine an other thing to teach wicked doctrine publikely The case is cleare and euident Sccondly that Ministers of the Church may be called godly men either in respect of their publike doctrine and preaching or in regard of their good life and holy conuersation For this cause did our Sauiour Christ commaund the people to obserue and doe whatsoeuer the Scribes and Pharisies did preach vnto them but not to doe after their works And he added the reason thereof because saith Christ they say do not Lo Christ reputeth the Scribes and Pharisies both godly and wicked men Godly in respect of their publike doctrine wicked in regard of their sinful liues For doubtles Christ did not commaund the people to obey wicked men as they are wicked but as they are godly that is to say as they deliuered godly doctrine to them Euen so do I say of Pope Siricius and Pope Sozimus that they were godly Bishoppes in respect of their publike doctrine as who neyther taught nor decreed publikely any materiall point of doctrine contrarie to the doctrine of S. Peter This aunswere is confirmed by the vsuall practise of all Papistes euery where For they terme euery Bishop of Rome their holy Father the Pope And this notwithstanding they freely graunt as I haue proued in my booke of Motiues that one Pope entered into the Popedome as a Foxe raigned in it as a Wolfe and died out of it as a dogge That an other Pope gaue himselfe to the Diuell that so the diuell might effect his designements They also graunt that euery Pope may erre in his priuate person and become an Heretike an Idolater an Atheist and whatsoeuer els And so they cannot all be termed holy Fathers in respect of their liues or personall doctrine taught priuate lie They must therefore terme them holy in regard of their publike doctrine agreeable to the doctrine of their predecessors though they be very often wicked in respect of their liues and conuersations So were Siricius and Sozimus good Popes secundum quid but not simpliciter Thirdly it is the vsuall course of holy Scripture to speake of many as of all to terme all wicked when the greater part is wicked and all godly when the greater part is godly This is the constant doctrine both of S. Austen and of your renowmed Papist Melchior Canus But because your Cardinall Bellarmine is the mouth of all Papistes I am content to set downe his expresse wordes so to stoppe your mouthes at this time These are your Cardinals wordes Neque mouere nos debet quod Esaias loqui videatur ita generatim vt omnes homines comprehendat Est enim iste scripturae mos vt loquatur de multis quasi de omnibus Neither ought it to moue vs that Esay seemeth to speake so generally as if he comprised all For it is the manner of the scripture so to speake of many as of all I say fourthly that I speake of the Popes vntill S. Austens time and long after not generally but in indefinitely and consequently my words are and must be true notwithstanding the bad dealing of Siricius and Sozimus I say fiftly that 18. Bishops at the Nicene councel were of a different opinion from the rest yet are the decrees termed the decrees of the Bishops ingenerall So in your last councell of Trent the decrees are published vnder the names of the Bishops there and for all that there were three Bishops that would not agree thereunto I say sixtly that the Iesuites and Seminaries are at their wits end and know not in the world what to aunswere to my bookes The reason is euident to euery childe for that now after many yeares they can finde out nothing at all in any of my Bookes sauing one onely contradiction falsly so supposed And yet to make a faire shew of something they haue hudled vp and iumbled together three places far distant one from another Which supposed contradiction if it were as they imagine would be too deare of a button If they could haue picked out of all my bookes any one thing of moment they would not for shame haue published in a printed Booke such a silly obection as this But the truth must preuaile and wil haue the vpper hand I doubt not but all indifferent Readers will be better perswaded hereafter to belieue the doctrine contained in my bookes especially seeing the aduersaries can say nothing against them in so many yeares but onely that I haue contradicted my selfe in saying in one place that the Popes were godly men till S. Austens time and in an other place that two Popes were wicked men For besides that this is so sufficiently cleared many wayes as the indifferent Reader cannot but perceiue the same it must needes bee most apparant to the world that if the Iesuites or Seminarie Priestes could frame any colourable answere to all my bookes or to any of them they would not doubtles passe ouer with silence all the Articles of Popish faith with the confutation therof set downe in my bookes and busie themselues about one onely silly contradiction and that no contradiction indeed but as they falsly or rather malitiously pretend vnto the Reader Where the Reader if he be wise and indifferent must perforce condemne them and their religion in that they dare not aduenture to encounter with my doctrine which doth touch them and their holy father the Pope so narrowly that many perceyuing it haue renounced both him them and their religion And I nothing doubt but these silly euasions and poore shiftes which they are driuen vnto will be a meane vnder God to cause many moe to renounce all Popish faction euery day more then other To shew the insufficiency of the Iesuites and Seminaries and that they know not possibly what to say or how to deale concerning the aunswering of my bookes I haue thought good to insert in this place the wordes of a letter which the Prouinciall of the Iesuites in England Henry Garnet by name addressed to his fellowes being then in consultation how to frame some kind of answere to my bookes These are the expresse wordes of his letter which by a friend of mine came very lately to my hands The wordes of the Iesuite Garnets letter sent to the rest of his fellowes COncerning the answere to the wrangler I am euen as I was before vncertain what were expedient The man desireth nothing but wrangling and besides that which I feare most is that which I haue seene by experience in other his writings that is exceeding and outragious choller Whereby he will be moued to vtter not only al imperfections which he knoweth of our fellowes but also those things which ought to be most surely sealed vp the man being past all grace and shame Neuerthelesse for this matter as you shal al agree for I doubt not but so many and such
will see what is best If it bee done it must be verie short and rather made to describe the man then to vnfold at large his doctrine For if it bee long neither the time nor commoditie of transporting vp and down nor the securitie of doing it can be correspondent That shall bee done on my part which may be This gentle Reader is there whole narration which for the exact examination and confutation thereof I will repeate by particular members one after an other euer adding a particular seuerall answer to the same The Iesuite Concerning the answere to the wrangler I am euen as I was before vncertaine what were expedient The Answere To these wordes I answere first that the Iesuites haue beene long buzzing about an answere to my bookes and haue vsed as great speede therein as hee that shoulde driue a snaile from Paris to Rome For after my bookes haue beene eight or nine yeares in their handes and vnder their malicious censure they are still at the same poynt where they began That is to say they neither haue made neither can they make any answere to my bookes I answere secondly that though the Papists be greatly troubled about my bookes and doe often consult among themselues how to frame some aunswere therevnto yet can they not this day tell what is expedient for them to doe in that behalfe But euery wise man can easily discerne that if the truth were on their side and that they could confute the doctrine laid downe in my bookes they would vndoubtedly performe the same The Iesuite The man desireth nothing but wrangling And besides that which I feare most is that which I haue seene by experience in other his writings that is exceeding and outragious choller The aunswere To these wordes I answere first that if I did but wrangle they might with facilitie haue aunswered me so many yeares ago Secondly that the Priestes and Iesuites are of a verie shallow iudgement and small reach if they can not tell in eight whole yeares what to answere to a wrangler or wrangling disputation Thirdly that the Iesuite as is confessed alreadie can not yet tell what is expedient to be done in that matter Whereupon it followeth of necessitie that it is a matter of great moment and of no smal importance For otherwise a man of rare wisedome and deepe iudgement such as our Iesuites vsually be especially those Iesuites who are elected to be prouincials and rulers of all others within a whole Prouince could not but know in much lesse time then 8 or 9. yeares what were fit meete expedient to be done concerning the answering of my bookes And yet as this great father of wisdom freely granteth he is still as vncertain as he was afore what aunswere were best to be made Fourthly that our father Iesuite lieth flatly vpon his head when he saith that hee feareth nothing more then my exceeding and outragious choller For first he and his brethren do not spare at all to write against their owne brethren the secular Priests who shew more choller in one leafe of paper then I haue done in all my Bookes Againe he and the other Iesuites doe disgorge more choller agaynst the Seculars in the least page they haue written then my selfe haue done in all my bookes Hereof none can be ignorant that shal seriously peruse my booke intituled the Anatomie of Popish tyrannie The Iesuite Whereby he will be moued to vtter not onely vll imperfections which he knoweth of our fellowes but also those things which ought to be most surely sealed vp The Answere I answere first that hereby euerie one may see that the Iesuites and their fellowes are full of notorious imperfections which they feare shall be made knowne vnto the world Secondly that if the Iesuites be guiltie in their own consciences of greater crimes offences then the secular Priests haue discouered to the world then certes they are so farre from being Saints that they are more like the Diuels of hell Thirdly that they haue damnable practises among them which must be sealed vp and not be made knowne vnto the world But hereof Watson the secular Priest seemeth to haue spoken sufficiently in his Quodlibets My book of Anatomie will tell them more Fourthly that the Iesuite doth vnawares confesse me to be an honest man For it must needes bee the part of an honest man to speake nothing of his enemie but onely that which he knoweth to be true The Iesuite The man being past all grace and shame The Answere I say first that it is no maruaile if this lewde Iesuite write thus of me to his felowes couertly seeing both hee and his fellowes write most bitterly and impudently against their owne brethren the secular Priests men of better deserts by many degrees then themselues Secondly they are arrant traitors cruell murderers impudent lyars notorious coozeners full of enuie pride malice and all vices vnder heauen as the secular Priests write of them and consequently this Iesuites tongue can not or at least ought not to be of credite against any man Thirdly all that this rayling impudent companion can truly say of me is nothing else in deede but that I haue renounced lately inuented popish Religion For the olde Roman religion practised in the primatiue church I allow and defend in al my bookes and will perseuere in the same God willing vnto my liues ende It is the superstition and Idolatrie of latter yeares crept into the Church of Rome by little and little the originall whereof I haue proued in my booke of Suruey agaynst which proofe this proude Iesuite can say nothing that I impugne condemne in all my writings Fourthly this rayling fellow hath graunted alreadie that I will vtter nothing of them but known truths consequently I must haue some grace and honestie left by his owne confession The Iesuite Neuerthelesse for this matter as ye shall all agree For I doubt not but so manie and such will see what is best The Answere Loe they that haue consulted how to answere my bookes are not onely many in number but also of the best iudgement and reputation among them For you heare his wordes so many and such will see what is best And yet these men so many and so worthie haue not in so many yeares found out any answere to my bookes But as he truly sayth they see what is the best to be done As if he should haue said the best is to passe ouer the matter with silence as wee haue done heretofore For his doctrine is sound grounded vpon the Scriptures Councels Fathers and the practise of the ancient Church and we are not able to gainsay the same It is better to sit still then to rise vp and fall The Iesuite If it be done it must be verie short and rather made to describe the man then to vnfold at large his doctrine For if it belong neither the time nor commoditie of transporting vp and downe nor the securitie