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A20440 A conference with a lady about choice of religion Digby, Kenelm, Sir, 1603-1665. 1638 (1638) STC 6844.4; ESTC S116634 26,633 148

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whole world as would be requisite to extirpate and roote out a doctrine vniuersally spread ouer it all that was at the first taught and confirmed with such s●ales of truth as the miracles that Christ and the Apostles wrought that in it selfe is so pure and agreable to the seedes that euery man findeth sowed euen by nature in his owne soule that worketh such admirable effects as the reformation of manners in mākind that withdraweth mens affections from humane and wordly contentments and carryeth them with a sweete violence to intellectuall obiects and to hopes of immortality and happinesse in another life that prescribeth lawes for happy liuing euen in this world to all men of what condition soeuer ether publike or priuate as working a moderation in mens affections to the commodities and goods of this life which else in nature is apt to blinde mens mindes and is the cause of all michiefes and euills and lastly that is deliuered ouer from hand to hand from worlds of fathers to worlds of sonnes with such care and exactnesse as greater cānot be imagined and as is requisite to the importance of that affaire which is infinitly beyond all others as on which the saluation and damnation of mankinde wholy dependeth Now vnto these rationall considerations let vs adde the promise which Christ made to his Church that the gates of hell should not preuaile against it and I thinke we haue sufficiently maintained that the Church of Christ in which the true doctrine of Christ is conserued can neuer faile but must infallibly continue vntill the worlds end Thus hauing proued that a supernaturall doctrine is necessary to bring mankind to beatitude that Christ taught this doctrine that from him the Churh receaued it and is the sacrary in which it is cōserued that this Church cannot erre in the tradition of this doctrine that besides the infallibility of it this Church is perpetuall It remaineth now that we close vp this discourse by applying all these premisses vnto the question in hand which is where we shall find out this infallible Church that by it we may gaine the knowledge of the true faith of Christ whereby we are to be saued 16. For this end our sixteenth and last conclusion shall be that the congregation of men spred ouer the world ioyning in communion with the Church of Rome is the true Catholike Church in which is conserued and taught the true sauing faith of Christ. The truth of this conclusion will without bringing any new proofes appeare euidētly by reflecting vpon what we haue sayed and onely examining whether the Romane Church be such a one as we haue determined the true Church of Christ must be or whether the notes which me may inferre out of our discourse to belong inseparably to the true Church may not rather with more reason be acknowledged of some other then of that in cōmunion with the see of Rome this point after these groundes layed requireth no very subtill disquisition but is discernable euen by the weakest sights and therefore this way of arguing appeareth to me most satisfactory and contentfull when taking the whole body of the question into suruey and beginning with the first and remotest considerations of it we driue the difficulties still before vs and pursuing of them orderly at euery steppe we establish a solide principle and so become secure of the truth and certainty of all we leaue behind vs which course although it may at the first sight appeare to be a great way about and looking but superficially vpon the matter we may seeme to meete with difficulties which cōcerne not our question yet in the effect we shall perceiue it is the most summary method of handling any controuersie and the onely meanes to be secured of the truth of what we conclude and that will recompense the precedent difficulties by making the conclusion which is the knotte of the affayre plaine easy and open I say then first that vnity of doctrine in matters of faith is inseparable from the Romane Church and can neuer be found in any other it onely hauing a precise ād determinate rule of faith For it hath belieued in euery age all that hath bin plainely ād positiuely taught vnto it by theire fathers as the doctrine of faith deriued from Christ and admitteth noe other article whatsoeuer as an article of faith Whereas on the other side all other Christian Churches amōg vs that pretend reformation haueing no certaine and common rule of faith but euery particular man gouerning himselfe in this matter by the collections of his owne braine and by his owne priuate vnderstanding and interpretation of Scripture which onely he acknowledgeth as the entire rule of faith it must consequently follow that according to the variety of their tempers and iudgemēts there must be a variety and difference of their opinions and beliefes which difference of temper happening for the most part betweene euery two men that are it likewise followeth scarse any two should in all particulars of their opinions agree together And accordingly we see by experience that scarce any two authors out of the Romane Church that haue written of matters of faith haue agreed in their tenets but rather haue dissented in fundamentall doctrine and haue inueighed against one another in their writings with great vehemence and bitternesse Whereas on the other side the Doctors of the Romane Church in all tymes in all places and of all tempers haue agreed vnanimously in all matters of faith although in the meane tyme seuerall of them haue in diuers other points great debates against one another and pursue them with much sharpnesse which strongly confirmeth the ground vpon which we frame this obseruation But to insist a little further vpon this materiall and important consideration it is euident that the proceeding of the reformers openeth the gate to all dissention schisme irreuerence pride of vnderstanding heresie and ruine of Christian religion for to iustify the new births of their rebellions braines the first stroke of their pen must be to lay a taint of ignorance and error vpon the whole current of Ancient fathers and Doctours of the Church and generall Councells and to blast their authority which is so precisely contrary to their doctrine whose names and recordes ought to be sacred with posterity Which when they haue done to settle a cōstant and like beliefe in all men they giue noe generall and certayne rule but leauing euery man to the Dictamens of his owne priuate iudgement according to the seuerall tempers and circumstances as we sayd before that sway euery single man in particular there must result which we see by experience as great a variety of opinions as those are different And lastly since they quarell at Catholickes beliefe in those points where they differ from them because they captiuate their vnderstandings with reuerence to what the Church proposeth and teacheth and thereby admitt into their beliefe articles which may seeme absurd to common sense
we remaine here in our earthly habitations imprisoned in our houses of clay as we cannot lift vp our heauy and drowsie eyes ād steddily fixe our dimme sight vpon the dazeling and indeed inuisible Deity nor entertaine an immediate communication with him like the childrē of Israel who desired that Moses not God might speake vnto them it was necessary that God himselfe should descend to some corporall substance that might be more familiar and lesse dazeling vnto vs And none was so conuenient as humane nature to the end that he might not onely conuerse freely and familiarly with vs and so in a gentle and a sweete manner teach vs what we should doe but also preach vnto vs by his example and himselfe be our leader in the way that he instructed vs to take The conclusion then of this discourse is that it was necessary Christ God and man should come into the world to teach vs what to belieue and what to doe 10. The tenth conclusion shall be that those vnto whom Christ did immediatly preach this faith and vnto whome he gaue commission to preach it vnto others and spread it through the world after he ascended to heauen ought to be belieued as firmely as he himselfe The reason of this assertion is that their doctrine though it be deliuered by secondary mouthes yet it proceedeth from the same fountaine which is God himselfe that is the prime verity and cannot deceiue nor be deceiued But all the difficulty here in is to know who had this immediate commission from Christ and by what seale we should discerne it to haue bin no forged one The solution of this ariseth out of the same argument which proueth that Christ himselfe was God and that the doctrine he taught was true and diuine which is the miracles and workes he did exceeding the power of nature and that could be effected by none but by God hmiselfe for he being truth it selfe cannot by any action immediatly proceeding from him witnesse and confirme à falsehoode In like manner the Apostles doing such admirable workes and miracles as nether by nature nor by art magicke could be brought to passe that must necessarily inferre God himselfe cooperated with them to iustifie what they sayd it is euidēt that their doctrine which was not their owne but receaued from Christ must be true and Diuine 11. Te eleauenth conclusion shall be that this faith thus taught by Christ and propagated by the Apostles and necessary to mankinde to belieue as well that part of it which is written as the whole which is not dependeth intrinsecally vpon the testimony of the Catholicke Church which is ordayned to conserue and deliuer it from age to age By which Catholike Church I meane the congregation of the faithfull that is spread through-out the whole world for we haue proued before that the way to the true faith ought to be open and playne to all men of all abilities and in all ages that haue a desire to embrace it and this cannot be but ether by the immediate preaching of Christ or else by the information ether in writing or by word of mouth of them that learned it from him and their deliuering it ouer to others and so from hand to hand vntill any particular tyme you will pitch vpon But from Christs owne mouth none could haue it but those who liued in the age when he did therfore there remaineth no other meanes to haue it deriued downe to after ages then by this deliuery ouer from hand to hand of the whole congregation of fathers or elders dispersed throughout the world to the whole congregation of sonnes or youngers which course of deducing faith from Christ we call tradition so that this conclusion proueth that the Church is the conseruer both of the whole doctrine of faith necessary for saluation and likewise of the diuine writ dictated by the Holy Ghost and written by the Prophetes Euangelists and Apostles which we are also bound to belieue And the same assent that we are to giue to the truth of Scriptures that is to say that the Scriptures we haue are true Scriptures the very same we are to giue to other articles of faith proposed vnto vs by the Church for they alike depend of the same authority which is the veracity of the Church proposing and deliuering thē vnto vs to be belieued And we may as well doubt that the Church hath corrupted the Scriptures as that she hath corrupted any article of fayth 12. The twelueth conclusion shall be that into the Catholike Church noe false doctrine in any age can be admitted or creepe in that is to say no false proposition whatsoeuer can euer be receiued and imbraced by the Catholike Church as a proposition of faith For whatsoeuer the Church beleeueth as a proposition of faith is vpon this ground that Christ taught it as such vnto the Church he planted himselfe and so it left it in truste to be by it deliuered ouer to the next age And the reason why the present Church belieueth any proposition to be of faith is because the immediate preceeding Church of the age before deliuered it as such And so you may driue it on frō age to age vntill you come to the Apostles and Christ. Therefore to haue any false proposition of faith admitted into the Church in any age doth Suppose that all they of that age must vnanimously conspire to deceiue their children and youngers telling them that they were taught by theire fathers to belieue as of faith some proposition which indeed they were not Which being impossible as it will euidently appeare to any prudent person that shall reasonably ponder the matter that so many men spread throughout the whole world so different in their particular interests and endes and of such various dispositions and natures should all agree together in the forgery of any precise lye it is impossible that any false doctrine should creepe into the Church But because the force of this argument may peraduenture not appeare at the first sight to your Ladyshipp that happily hath not had much occasion to make deepe reflection vpon the certainty that must needs be in the asseueration of any history of matter of fact subiect to the sense which shall be made by a great company of men so distant from one another and of such different interests and affections as they cannot conspire together in the forgery of a falsehood But that you may happily thinke since any one man is lyable to be deceiued or out of some indirect end may be iuduced to deceiue another it is also possible that a whole multitude of men be it neuer so great consisting of particular men may allso deceiue or be deceiued I will therefore for a further declaration of this matter propose for the thirteenth Conclusion that fayth thus deliuered is absolutly more certaine and infallible then any naturall science whatsoeuer And yet sciences are so certaine I meane such as depend of
in things of such nature as their deceipt must of necessity damne for all eternity both themselues and all them that shall receiue that lye from them and take it upon their credit without which vnanimous conspiracy of one whole age of men throughout all the world we proued in our last conclusion that no false proposition could be admitted into the Church as an article of faith In a word this generall defection of all makinde from truth is more impossible then that all one entire element or any primigeniall nature should absolutely perish or loose its originall proprietie as for all the fire in the world to be corrupted and forsake his heate and leuity and so consequently to haue noe more fire in nature all which followeth of what is sayd aboue And thus I conceiue I haue made good the assertion that hath begotten all this discourse vpon the thirteēth head which is that faith conserued in the Catholike Church and deliuered by perpetuall successiō and generall tradition is more certaine and more infallible then any naturall science whatsoeuer for naturall sciences being grounded vpon the indefectibility of the natures of those things from whence those sciences are collected and faith depending vpon the indefectibility of humane nature which is infinitly more noble then they aud whose forme is eleuated beyond the reach of matter whereas theirs is comprehended and shutt vp within the wombe of matter and which is indeed the end and period of all their natures and of all the whole materiall world It followeth of consequēce that faith must be lesse subiect to contingency and lesse lyable to error then naturall sciences are And they being in vniuersall infallible and certaine faith must likewise be so too and more if more may be But this is not enough our disquisition must not rest heere We must not content ourselues in this diuine affaire and supernaturall doctrine with a certitude depending onely vpon naturall causes The wisedome of God proportioneth out congruent meanes to bring on euery thing to their proper end and according to the nobility of the effect that he will haue produced he ordaineth equiualent noble causes Therefore mans obtaining beatitude being the highest end that any creature can arriue vnto and alltogether supernaturall it requireth supernaturall causes to bring vs to that end and a supernaturall infallibility to secure vs in that iourney We must not onely haue a supernaturall way to trauell in which is faith but allso a supernaturall assurance of the right way vnto the discouery of which all that we haue allready sayd doth necessarily cōduce for Gods prouidence that disposeth all things sweetly will not in any generall affaire introduce into the materiall world any supernaturall effect vntill the naturall causes be first disposed fittingly to cooperate on their partes and then he neuer faileth of his As for example when a naturall creature is to be produced into beeing the father and mother must both concurre in contributing all that is in their power to the generation of a child and yet we are sure the soule to be produced hath no dependāce of them yet notwithstanding without their precedent action no newe soule would be But when the matter is fittingly disposed in the mothers wōbe he neuer misseth creating of a soule in that body which is as noble an effect and as much requiring the omnipotency of God as the creating of nothinge all the materiall world and yet we may say that the matter when it is arriued to its last disposition for the reception of such a forme may in a manner clayme that miraculous action depending of his omnipotency since for mankinde he created the rest of the materiall world and therefore there ought to be as certaine and necessary causes for the production of man as there are for the production of other materiall things which we see doe seldome m●sse in any whē the matter is fitly disposed for the reception of their seuerall formes And so in like manner we may rationally conclude that in this high and supernaturall busynesse of deliuering ouer from hand to hand a supernaturall doctrine to bring mankinde to the end it was created for he will first haue all the naturall causes fittingly disposed for the secure and infallible performāce of that worke and then that he will adde and infuse into them some supernaturall guift whereby to giue them yet further a supernaturall assurance and infallibility which they may with an humble confidence in his vnlimited goodesse expect and claime at his diuine hand when they are reduced to that state as is conuenient for the reception of such a supernaturall guift 14. Our fourteenth conclusion therefore shall be that God hath giuen to his Church thus composed the holy Ghost to confirme it in the true faith and to preserue it from error and to Illuminate the vnderstanding of it in right discerning the true sense of those Misteryes of faith that are committed to the custody of it and to worke supernaturall effects of deuotion and sanctitie in that Church And this I proue thus Considering that the doctrine of Christ is practicall and aymeth at the working of an effect which is the reduction of mankinde to beatitude and that mankinde comprehendeth not onely those that liued in that age when he preached but also all others that euer were since or shall be till the end of the world It is apparent that to accomplish that end it was necessary Christ should so effectually imprint his doctrine in their hearts whom he deliuered it vnto as it might vpon all occasions and at all tymes infallibly expresse it selfe in action and in the deliuery of it ouer from hand to hand should in vertue and strength of the first operation produce euer after like effects in all others Now to haue this compleately performed it was to be done both by exteriour and by interiour meanes proportionable to the senses without and to the soule within The outward meanes were the miracles that he wrought of which himselfe sayeth if I had not wrought those workes that no man else euer did they were not guilty of sinne but now they haue no excuse or to this purpose and he promissed the Apostles they should doe greater then those And that miracles are the proper instruments to plant a new doctrine and faith withall the Apostle witnesseth when he sayeth that miracles are wrought for the vnfaithfull not for the faithfull and God himselfe told Moses that he would once doe some prodigy in his fauour that the people might for euer after belieue what he sayd to them But it is manifest by the fall of the Apostles themselues that onely this exteriour meanes of miracles is not sufficient to engrafte supernaturall faith deepe enough in mens hearts when as they vpon Christs Passion not onely for feare through humane frailty denyed their master but had euen the very conceit and beliefe of his doctrine exiled out of their hearts and vnderstanding
they may as well with presumptuous hands graspe at and seeke to plucke vp the very fundations of Christian religion as namely the doctrine of the Trinity and of the incarnatiō of Christ and of the resurrection and state of life of the future world since there are greater seeming contradictions in them especially in the two first then in those misteryes the reformers cauill at In the next place we may consider that as infallibility is pretended by the Romane Church alone so it is apparantly entayled vpon it for we haue proued that no meanes or circumstāce ether morall naturall or supernaturall is wanting in it to begett infallibility in matters of faith Wheras on the other side from the reformers owne position we inferre by consequence that their doctrine cannot be hoped euen by thēselues to be infallible and therefore they that shall submiit their vnderstanding to their conduct though they belieue without controuersy all they say must needes euen by reason of what is taught them floate allwayes in a greate deale of incertitude and anxious apprehension and feare of error For they looking vpon the Church but with pure humane considerations as an ordinary company of men will haue it lyable to mistaking according to the naturall imbecillity of mens wits and vnderstandings and of humane passions and negligence and other such defects and weakenesses which euery man is by nature subiect vnto Against which they produce no antidote to preserue and secure thēselues from the infectiō and taint they lay vpon the Church For if they will haue the conferences of seuerall passages of Scripture to be that which must giue light in the seuerall cōtrouerted obscurities what eminency haue these few late reformers shewne other in knowledge of tongues insight into antiquity profoundnesse in sciēces and perfection and sanctity of life which hath not shined admirably more not to taxe them here of the contrary in multitudes of the aduerse party And none will deny but these are the likelyest meanes to gaine à right intelligence of the true and deepe sense of Scriptures And besides we may obserue that the reason why they deny the seuerall articles wherin they differ from the Catholicke Church is because it teacheth a doctrine which is repugnant to sense and of hard digestion to Philosophy both which are vncompetent iudges of diuine and supernaturall truths And whosoeuer steereth by their compasse cannot hope for infalliblity in a matter that transcendeth their reach Thirdly we may consider that the vniuersality of the Church in regarde of place which is necessary to the end that all mankinde may haue sufficient meanes to gaine knowledge of the true faith can be attributed to none but to the Romane Catholicke Church which onely is diffused throughout the whole world whereas all others are circled in with narrow limits of particular prouinces And euen within them the professors scarce agree among themselues in any poynt of doctrine but in opposing the Romane Church And yet further besides this want of vniuersality in regarde of place the Religion taught by the reformers hath yet a greater restriction then that for euen in its owne nature it is not for all sorts of persons and for all capacities whereas the true saueing faith to bring men to beatitude ought to be obuious to all mankinde and open as well to the simple as to the learned For since they lay the Scriptures as the first and highest principle from whence they deduce all that ought to be belieued And that in all artes and sciences the primary and fundamentall principles thereof ought to be throughly knowne by thē that aspire to the perfect knowledge of those sciences it followeth that one must haue an exact knowledge of the learned tongues to examine punctually the true sense of the Scriptures and that one must be perfectly versed in logicke to be able to reason solidly and to deduce true consequēces from certaine principles for want of which we find by experience that great controuersies arise dayly among the learnedst men which would not be if the force of consequences were of their owne nature easily discernable and one must be throughly skilled in naturall philosophy and Metaphysickes since vnto appearing contradictions in subiects of those sciences they reduce most of their arguments against the supernaturall truths that Catholickes belieue And lastly one must be indowed with an excellent iudgemēt and strong naturall witt to be able to wield and make good vse of these weapons without which they would but aduāce him the faster to ruine and pernicious error With which excellencyes how few are there in the world fairely adorned Fourthly it is euident that the Romane Catholicke Church onely hath had a constant and vninterrupted succession of Pastors and Doctors and tradition of doctrine from age to age which we haue established as the onely meanes to deriue downe the true faith from Christ. Whereas it is apparant all others haue had late beginnings from vnworthy causes And yet euen in this little while haue not bene able to maintaine themselues for one age throughout or scarce for any considerable part of an age in one tenor of doctrine or forme of Ecclesiasticall gouerment Lastly we may consider how the effect of the holy Ghost his inhabiting in the Church in regard of manners making the hearts of men his liuing temples shineth eminently in the Catholike Church and is not so much as to be suspected in any other whatsoeuer For where this holy spirit raigneth it giueth a burning loue of God as we haue touched before and a vehement desire of approaching vnto him as neere as may be Now the soule of man moueth towards God not by corporeall steppes and progressions but by intellectuall actions the highest of which are mentall prayer and contēplation in which exercices a man shall aduance the more by how much he is the more sequestred from the thought and care of any wordly affayres and hath his passions quieted within him and is abstracted from cōmunication with materiall obiects and is vntied from humane interests and according to the counsailes of Christ in the Gospell hath cast off all sollicitude of the future and remitteth himselfe wholy to the prouidence of God liuing in the world as though he were not in it wholly intent to contēplation when the inferiour part of Charity calleth him not downe to comply with the necessity of his Neighbours This forme of life we see continually practised in the Catholicke Church by multitudes of persons of both sexes that through extreme desire of approaching as neere vnto God as this life will permitt doe banish themselues from all theyr frends kindred and what els in the world was naturally dearest vnto thē and either retire into extreme solitudes or shutt themselues vp for euer within the narrow limits of a straight Monastery and little cell where hauing renounced all the interest and propriety in the goods of this world and vsing no more of them then is