vnsought to procure glorie to that which was in it selfe very vnglorious Their care therefore was to convert the eies of all persons on their externall hewe which was marveilously adorned and garnished to the sence with their 〈◊〉 Crosses set vp or caried before some Prelates with the triple Crowne Praefat. Catalog Testium veritatis of their Popes the redd hattes of their Cardinals the precious attire of some in their Churches their prodigious apparel abroad the diverse-couâ—…oured coules of their Monkes such singing and chauÌ„ting with Organs such ringing of Belles such trimming of Images many more such sensible matters as that neither the Iewes nor the GeÌ„tiles had the like And amoÌ„g all this if true Religion in diverse were present it is not to bee marveiled at if she were scant seene or if no notice were takeÌ„ of her for her poore vntrimmed or vngarnished hewe for her naked simplicity and vnpainted integrity It was the commendation given to Solâ—… beloved by vvhome the Church is represented that the Ps. 45. 13. Kinges daughter is all glorious vvithin her bevvtiâ—… consisting of puritie in faith veritie in doctrine severenesse in behaviour innocencie patience and such like spirituall complementes And these are as much contemned in others by the Antichristian rabble as they are neglected in themselves vvhereas their externall pompe on the contrarie side is as much despised by the LORD as it is magnified in their fleshly and carnall imaginations And thus I ende this matter hoping that if any Reader thinke that I have beene to long in this Chapter hee will remember the waight of that which hath beene handled and a recompence shall bee made in some other Reasons following vvhere I am not enforced to the large handling of the question then occurrent THE SECOND REASON The name of Catholikes T. HILL NO man can iustly deny but that they who have ever holden the name of Catholikes and have bin knowne thereby were vndoubtedly of true Religion for that they had ever on their side the Scriptures Miracles Fathers Councels Martyrs and for that every one which was against them was ever accounted reputed for an Heretike And the same Catholikâ—… were ever taken as the trunke or as the body of the tree and all others bearing the name of Christians as branches or boughes cut of the same tree Now all the world knoweth that whoseever in any age vvas a member of the Romane Church and vnder the obedience of the high Bishop thereof hee was ever taken for a Catholike so tearmed although in these our daies it hath pleased the Protestants to call such by the name of Papists which indeede is all one with the name Catholikes for that it signifieth such as follow and embrace the doctrine of that Church which hath for her head vnder Christ the Pope And it is not amisse as Chrysostome saith to be named of them vvho governe the Homil. 33. in Acta Church in Christes steede so that they take not their name of any particular man as Heretikes dâ—…e G. ABBOT BY this little which is already passed every man may conceiue that Master Doctor Hill is desirous to write a booke for I dare not saye make one for feare of slaundering him and resolving that the ground of all his â—…ong should bee taken from Master Bristowes Motives he coulde not vvell for very shame beginne as Bristow beganne least at the very entraunce into this his renouned labour he should be deprehended to take vp the most part of his ware on trust Vsing therefore in the front some little simple cunning to goe farther of he with some change borrowed the matter of his first Chapter a Brist 37 45. Motive out of the 37. and 45. Motiue of the other but not willing to trouble himselfe any more in that painefull sorte to seeke farre of his fingers presentâ—…â—…itched to bee doing with somewhat neerer hand and therefore for the slender substance of his second Reason hee goeth fairely and readily to the b Câ—… 1. 3. first and thirde Chapter of his good Maister Bristow and scambling somewhat of his owne in from those two hee patcheth vp all the â—…est Hee hoped that the former being not so much disguised as trans-placed shoulde haue covered all which followed and if that at the first had beene clenly caryed all which commeth after woulde haue beene the safer vnder the protectâ—…on thereof There is or hath beene some what in the world which thinketh all well if the heade of it selfe bee hid although the whole body doe lye out to bee seene If you knowe not what that is 〈◊〉 imagine it to bee Caligula the Emperour vvho albeit in great thunder and lightning as c Sueton in Caligula 51 Suetonius reporteth he would wholy runne vnder his bedde for feare yet if it vvere but a little clappe or flash he would winke with his eies and hide his head alone and then he thought all his body out of perill But for this borrower vpon Interest his body lyeth open to vs searching for it and the head although both winking and hooded hath not beene hid And now take vs with you I pray you 2 Every wise one can deny and that most iustly that such as haue desired to ingrosse the name of Catholikes appropriating it to themselues and yet haue taken no farther care but titularly to be are it as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 râ—… as Mâ—…ns 〈◊〉 noâ—… 〈◊〉 cannot rightly make challendge to retaine possesse the Orthodoxe faith but that the Divine Scriptures true and approved Miracles authenâ—…icall Fathers Oâ—…cumenicall Councels and Christes Martyrs may be as suâ—…e from such counterfeites as light is from darkenesse and men shall not bee Heretikes but Godâ—… good servants who vpon sufficient ground do stand against them The true Church is indeedâ—… the Lordes Vine the tree of his delight a more precious plant then anye was in Paradise but those who beare d Apoc. 3 1. a 〈◊〉 to liue yet are deade as it was said to the Angel of the Church of Sardis are to bee accounted no better then dead boughes or rotten braunches vntill they see their owne errour and there-vpon repent And all the vvorlde knovveth that vve may vse your phrase which you borrow of Master e Appendix to the quodlibets in the margent Parsons or of the Fâ—…ench 〈◊〉 le monâ—… that hovvsoever in times past vvhile Rome kept the Apostolike faith a man vâ—…ted to the same profession mighte bee called a Catholike not because simplye and absolutely hee applyed himselfe to the men of Rome but by reason that â—…ointelye and together vvith them hee accepted the Beleefe of the Vniversall Church yet novâ—… one conforming himselfe to the practise of that Cittie to the Decrees of the Popes to the Canons of the Tridentine Councell doeth meâ—… to bee tearmed a Cacolike an Heretike an enemy to the Church an adversarie of CHRIST a vassall of Antichrist But vveâ—… are contented to
bee iustified That it is most true which S. Paule hath that a man is iustified by faith without workes because no works done before beleeving helpe toward iustification but that in beleeving actually a man is reputed iust before God that if he die immediatly having no time to worke yet he by beleeving is iustified Notwithstanding that if he liue he ought to bring forth good fruit His coÌ„clusion is that S. Paule doth speake of workes going before faith S. Iames speaketh of works following that faith which hath iustified And a right beleefe wil not be without them if it have time to shew it selfe I might heere adde how frequent a thing it is with diverse Doctors of the Church to vse the word of onely faith in speaking of our IustificatioÌ„ but of that hereafter TheÌ„ to shew that neither Luther nor we need feare the Epistle of S. Iames as crossing our other doctrine we say that S. Paule doth speake of acceptatioÌ„ to be iust S. Iames intendeth a declaration that we are iustified the one beateth on that before God where the setled apprehension of faith prevaileth which notwithstaÌ„ding wil not be without his convenient fruit the other mentioneth that before men who know not the hart but must iudge of that which is externall therefore it is rightly said by the Apostle in their persons s 〈◊〉 2. 18. Shew mee thr faith out of thâ—…e owne workes 3 Whom you meane by the of-spring of Luther we caÌ„not telt but if al who refuse those books be termed his of-spring his children shal be a thousand yeeres elder then himselfe for many of the most ancieÌ„t fathers did disclaime the books of Tobias Ecclesiasticus the Machabees for being Canonical if the rule of s Hist Ecol lib 3. 19 Eusebius he good as no wise maÌ„ wil deny it that the Canonical volumes may be distiguished froÌ„ the Apocryphal suppositious by the iudgmeÌ„t of the church by the stile by the matter purpose of the books they had great reasoÌ„ not to acknowledge theÌ„ for the Church vniformly did never admit theÌ„ they are not writteÌ„ in the language of the Iews to whoÌ„ t Rom. 3 2. were coÌ„mitted the Oracles of God therfore if they were part of Gods Oracles before the comming of Christ these Iewes should haue admitted them and retained them which they did not and the matter of them is but meane and ignoble in comparisoÌ„ of the vndoubted Scripture What a doubtful narration is that in u Cap. 6. 17 Tobias that a spirite should smell a perfume when spirits haue no flesh bones by the testimony of u Luc 24. 39 Christ himselfe coÌ„sequeÌ„tly no organes of scÌ„e that the hart liver of a fish should drive away the Devil Which if it were so S. Peter was much overseene when he taught vs how to repulse SathaÌ„ by x 1 Pet. 5 9. resisting him being stedfast in the faith For it had bin an easier way to have said get you the hart liver of such a fish make a perfume with it he dareth not come nigh you And this would wel haue beseemed S. Peter to set men to catch such fish in remeÌ„brance of his owne occupatioÌ„ since himselfe was a fisher But what if yong Toby had met with such a spirit as those were of whom Christ saith y Matth. 17. 21. This kind goeth not out but by fasting and praier The treatise called Ecclesiasticus if for any cause it should come into the Canon it must be for Salomons sake whom many would haue to bee the authour of it But the Preface it selfe remaineth confessing it to be the worke of Iesus Sirachs sonne of another Iesus his grande-father and the booke meÌ„tioneth z Cap 48. 46. Elias Ezechias Iosias Ieremy diverse other who lived hundreds of yeeres after Salomon And howe questionable a narration is that in it that a Cap 46. 20 Samuel should tell of Saules death after his owne burial which as diverse learned men thinke is a report to be beleeved in NecromaÌ„cy rather theÌ„ in Divinity For if the souls of the righteous being departed be in the haÌ„d of God which our Romanists must coÌ„fesse out of the booke of b Cap 3. 1 Wisdome we do beleeue out of the saying of David c Psal 31. 5. Into thine haÌ„d I coÌ„mend my spirit if those who die in the Lord d Apoc 14 13 do rest froÌ„ their labors how shal we suppose that the soule of such an excelleÌ„t Prophet as Samuel was might be at the coÌ„mand of so base vile a witch to be fetched froÌ„ heaven at her pleasure Or what rest shal other faithfull men and women bee imagined to haue after this life if Necromancers VVitches and Coniurers haue such power over them Albeit therefore that some of the auncient speaking according to the e 1. Sam 2â—… 15 letter of the texte doe name him who appeared Samuel because hee came vp in the likenesse of Samuel as f Epistol 80. Basile when hee saith that the VVitch raised Samuel from the deade and some other not sifting the pointe doe affirme it to bee the soule of Samuel himselfe as g Antiquit. 6. 15 Iosephus the lewe and h Dialog 〈◊〉 Tryphon Iustinus Martyr yet other more exactly looking into it tell vs otherwise as S. Austen when he calleth that which appeered i De doctr Christ lib. 24 23. the image of Samuel and especially Basile who elsewhere more advisedly pronounceth that k Basil in 〈◊〉 cap 8. they were Devils which hissing with their voice did transforme themselues into the habite and person of Samuel Yea l Chron l 1 Genebrard himselfe maketh a great doubt whither it were Samuel or no and citeth Tertullian and diverse other of the Auncients resolving the contrary As for the bookes of Machabees there be many thinges in them that no man can maintaine therfore no part of them is so much as reade in our Church as that m 1. Mach. 1. 7 AlexaÌ„der parted his kingdome among his servants while he was alive that the n Cap 8 7. Romanes tooke the greate Antiochus aliue that they tooke from him o Cap. 8. 8. India and Media and Lydia and gaue them to King Eumenes that they had a Senate consisting of p Vers. 15. three hundred and twenty men who consulted daily that they yeerely committed their q Vers. 16. government to one man whom all obeied and that there was no hatred or envy amongst them Also it wil never bee made hang togither that Iudas should be aliue in the r 2 Math 1. 10. hundred foâ—…escore eight yeere and yet he should be slaine in the s 1 Mac 9. 3. hundred fifty and two yeere Neither that Antiochus should s 1 Mac. 6. 8 die in his bed for griefe and sorrow and in another place should be
your inculcating of Al d Fol. 2. Nations having afterwards subioyned vnto it ever continue without interruption e Fol. 3. all Kinges people should acknowledge this Church againe all people which sate in darkenes in the shadow of death should be lightened delivered and set in the right way to Heaven If you take it thus you are pitifully out for our Saviour hath fore-told that into the f Math. 7. 13 wide gate broad way that leadeth to destruction many there be which enter but the straight gate and narrow way that leadeth vnto life few there be that finde And it was reveiled vnto Iohn that with the whore of Babylon the g Apoc. 17. 2. Kings of the earth committed fornication the inhabitours of the earth are drunken with the wine of her fornication And experience hath confirmed that not only the Saracene doctrin hath for almost these thousād yeeres possessed the shew face of many great countries but time out of mind very Gentilisme Heathenisme have raigned in the East West Indies in the Ilands neere adioyning in diverse parts of Africa in Lappia and many other countries the name of Iesus our Redeemer for ought that of certainty can be found till of late yeeres being scant ever heard of among them Or doe you rather vnderstand those speeches of all Nations cōming vnto him of all being drawne vnto Christ to carry this sence that the Gentiles nowe as well as formerly the Iewes should bee admitted and moreover that the word should bee spreade to the East and to the VVest and to the North and to the Southe so that before the day of iudgment God should have some faithfull in everie quarter and sometimes when his Church did flourish many thousands in diverse places and alwaies some servants some-where In this meaning if you take it we willingly ioyne with you the rather induced thervnto by the nature of the word All in the Scriptures and by the manner of the fulfilling of those Prophecies in the Church in such a sort as with reason cannot be gaine-saide For as All in holy writte doth evermore at least signifie many so it doth not cōtinually importe a generality without any sort of exception When it is saide that to Iohn the Baptist h Math. 3. 5. vvent out Hierusalem and all Iewry and all the region round about Iordan it is not meant that no individuall person did stay at home but many of all sortes rich and poore young and olde men and women such a company as if almost all the country had come in were partakers of his Baptisme So i T it 2. 11. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the grace of God hath appeared which bringeth salvation to all men saith Saint Paule to Titus Like to which is that to Timothy k 1. Tim. 2. 4. God our Saviour who will that all men shall be saved where All intendeth many or diverse of diverse sorts not vniversally every one He will have all to be saved saith Gregory l In 1. Reg. 14. because out of every sort of men hee chooseth those whome hee draweth to the ioye of everlasting salvation And Aquinas himselfe among other interpretations of that later place hath this m Part 1. q. 19. a. 6. It may bee vnderstood that the distribution must be made pro generibus singulorum and not pro singulis generum according to this sence God vvill have of every state of men to be saved males and females Iewes and Gentiles smal and great but not all of every severall state And who will say that in every particular countrie of Asia or the continent toward the South pole or many other quarters of the world the Church of Christ hath alwaies apparantly bin The Romanists of al other must not say so if they will have the cōgregation of Gods faithful to extēd it selfe no further thē their doctrine the Popes vsurpatiō doth goe For they cannot prove that ever those regions heard of the name of the Romane Bishop vntill this last age if now they doe or have lately done This thē we grant vnto you that Christ Iesus hath evermore a Church that variously dispersed vnder the cope of heavē not boūded within narrow precincts as that of the Iewes was The goodly titles also which in the word are givē vnto it are ever true in respect of the purity of religiō but especially for the fundamental points which finally cōcerne salvation And they are also as true for the visible glory of the church in time of peace the free course of the Gospel but are not perpetually without interruption to be vnderstood for the patent extent of the same that gloriously apparātly to be in any one countrey of the world as the defenders of the Romane Hierarchy would chalenge to themselves T. HILL FOR before the comming of the Messias the people of the Iewes many others also in other Lands which were of the Iewish Religion vvere in some sorte farre from the bondage of the Devill but since his comming both Iewes and Gentiles and almost all Nations Tribes and Kingdomes have bin ever in Lucifers thraldome vntill this our age in which Luther came to expell Lucifer and to ridde all the world out of his captivity And so the passion of our Redeemer availed little or nothing at all for the space of these fifteene hundred yeeres for a thousand yeeres together hee was so farre from drawing all vnto him as hee said hee would do that he drew not so much as one person that any mā can name And in Ioh. 12. our Country there of England it is most manifest that all were Papistes without exception from the first Christening thereof vntill this age of King Henry the eight G. ABBOT 9 YOV labour to proove that if you bee not the Church the Devils dominion since Christes time hath bin larger then ever it was before And your reason is that before the comming of Christ the Iewes and other of the Iewish profession in other lands were in some sort free from the bondage of the Devil which is true in all those who by the eies of faith did foresee the birth life death of the Messias did beleeve on him reputing him their Redeemer as 〈◊〉 Iob did call him but since his manifestation say you Iewes Gentiles almost all Nations Tribes Kingdomes 〈◊〉 Iob. 19. 25. have bin ever in Lucifers thraldome vntill this our age in which Luther came to expell Lucifer c. I wōder that you can suffer the name of Luther to passe so quietly without some egregious contumely but keeping it for him you only stay it a while anon he shall have it But being heere in the heigth of that argument which above all other pleaseth your side and the very rehearsing whereof as you woulde make your doating followers beleeve doth make vs all o Campian Ration
3. looke pale you amplifie your former proposition that if this be yeelded vnto Christs passion availed little or nothing at all for fifteene hundred yeeres but for a thousand yeeres hee vvas so farre from drawing all vnto him that he drewe not so much as one person that any man can name This is spoken like a man of some mettal indeede by this shal your disciples know how to trust you hereafter But as if yet you had deserved but one end of a sharpingstone and meant to have the rest with you before that you depart you tel vs that in our own couÌ„try there of England which whether you speake with some contept or no your selfe can best discover it is most manifest that all were Papists without exception from the first Christening therof vntill this age of King Henry the eight You are a blessed companion a man may beleeve much vpon your word Doubtlesse you perswade your selfe that all who should reade your booke would be madde or drunke or senselesse or else you must thinke that they would admitte and admire you for a singular lyar Besides that of Antiquitie the vvritings and testimony of your owne men will convince you in this to have neither wit nor shame VVe make it good against you that the thousands and ten thousands of the servants of God in the Primitive Church knew at the first nothing and afterwards but little of your blasphemous Popery and that not in the mainest points And albeit in processe of time superstitioÌ„ as it was p 2. Thes. 2. 3. 1. Tim. 4. 1. 2. Pet. 2. 1. foretold did by little and little creepe in yet in all ages God had his Church of such as did not spotte their soules with your horrible contammations And we maintaine it that in our owne lande there were testimonies most luculent of such as detested the AntichristiaÌ„ pride other loose behaviour of the Romane Clergy both in doctrin manners served the Lord after the prescript of his owne word as now we do endevor to do If you know not this M r. Doctor you have reade but little so in some sort we question your scholarship or else you have reade it and so wee question your conscience But vvee vvill hope the best that it is your ignorance although these present propositions and many other in your booke doe give vs great occasion to suspect your honest conscience Your owne men will be ashamed that you talke in this fashion as anon you shall perceive But I follow you a while T. HILL AND so the Protestants affirme of other Countries boldly say Luther in postil Ger. 1537 part 2. fol. 141. that vntill this age the Gospell lay in the dust was hiddeÌ„ vnder the bench and Christ was vnknowne Which to say as the Protestants must needes say and blush not to say indeede is meere madnes and flat infidelitie and a plaine denying of Christ and no small establishment of Mahomets Religion For the Protestantes and Mahumetanes agree in this that the Church which Christ founded fell some five or sixe hundred yeeres after his ascension into most horrible errours and then say the Turkes the Angell Gabriel was sent from God to Mahomet to teach him hovve hee shoulde reforme the saide Church because it would not stande with the wisedome and goodnesse of Almightâ—… God to suffer his Church to vanish avvaie through errours and superstitions vvithout sending in time to reforme it And in this out of doubte the Turkes have farre greater reason then the Protestantes have vvhich Protestants by their doctrin make Christ the most simple most improvident Lavve-giver that ever was in the vvorld For neither Plato Solon Lycurgus nor any other Lavv-maker vvhosoever was so simple and improvident as to fashion and plant a Common-wealth which before it were vvell setled should vanish away and come to nothing having no sufficient meanes to prevent errours and such abuses as would ever throvve their Lawes destroy their CmÌ„on wealths And therfore if Christ bee God the holy Bible true the Religion of the Papists must needes be that Religion which he ordained and left to all generations and consequently the onely true and right Religion G. ABBOT 10 SInce by your last fore-going wordes it hath appeared to bee your profession in your owne person to speake largely it is most probable that to the vttermost you will racke and pervert the speeches of other There is neither Luther nor any other ProtestaÌ„t so absurd as to say according to that which you would intimate heere that there was no Church till of late that the Gospell was absolutely hidden or Christ simplie vnknowne vntill their daies For we well vnderstand teach coÌ„trary-wise that in the Primitive Church plentifully afterward alwaies more or lesse in some parts of the world or other there were the Elect of God who groning to behould the common errours of their age did strive to beleeve and live after the rule of the Scriptures But the speech of Luther of vs in that behalfe is comparative that in comparison of that which it should bee or that which had bin not long after the Apostles or in respect of that which the Lord hath of late reveiled or of that which by the faithfull might have bin wished the Gospel had not for some later ages so free a course and Christ was not so ordinarlly vnpollutedly taught but the Bible lay much neglected and was cast aside in comparison of other bookes And while we acknowledge this we need not to blush neither is it madnesse in vs but q Act. 26. 25 the words of truth and sobernes as Saint Paule said in a like vniust accusation nor yet infidelity or denying of Christ or the establishing of Mahomets Religion Heere you heape vp many wordes but are not able to prove the least part of your owne Propositions wee must therefore give you leave to say much conclude nothing Your vniust imputatioÌ„ that not only in this but in diverse other matters we ioyne with the Turkes you borrow of Doctor Gefford who no lesse slaunderously then crakingly preteÌ„deth to do great things in his Calvino-Turcismus The maliciousnes wherof is already displayed and the crime returned by a learned r D. Sutliv in Turco Papismo man vpon the Papists themselves It is to be hoped that the Authour thereof will either in time repent him and turne to grace or receive the reward of his blasphemous speeches against Christs Religion his venimous revilings against his naturall Prince country In the meane while he may looke to the clearing of his credit from the accusations of father Parsons s Parsons manifestation cap. 1. 7. who describeth him to be very ill qualified no better theÌ„ a fire-braÌ„d in kindling dissension eveÌ„ among the English fugitives of the Romane Colledge But for our parts know you ô the whole rable of the Romish generatioÌ„ that vvee
matter now in questioÌ„ One p Lib. 〈◊〉 where he telleth vs that Hus did slay soules for an huÌ„dred yeeres togither neither yet doth he cease to slay them by the second death Within an hundred yeeres after him came M. Luther according as the saide Iohn Hus did q Io. Foxus in Histor. Ecclesiastic prophecy not long before his death And wheÌ„ it is added that yet hee doth not cease to slaye it is manifest that his doctrine remained till the daies of Cochlues In another r Cochl lib. 2. place hee relateth that Luther did stirre vp seditions in Germany by the bookes of the Hussites Afterward hee calleth those who were in Germany in his time s Ibidem newâ—… Hussites And againe Hus did so rente the vnitie of the Church that vnto this day there remaineth a pitifull division in Bohemia He proceedeth in the same matter s Lib. 3. elsewhere saying that the people of Germany are now by Luther partakers of the heresies of Hus and Hierome One sorte of the followers of this Iohn Hus did call themselves Thaborites and these were they who most dissented of all other from the doctrine of Rome Of these hee speaketh thus t Lib. 8. Unto this day remaineth the secte of the Thaborites in manie places of Bohemia and Moravia vnder the â—…ame of Picards and VValdenses Lastly the same Cochleus in the yeere 1534. doth vvish that u Lib. 12. hee may see the remainders or leavings of the Hussites to returne to the Church and the Germanes to cast out all nevve sectes VVhat can bee more evident then that the doctrine of Iohn Hus vvas sensiblie and apparantly continued somewhere even till the daies of Martin Luther Vnto which may be added that wheras Luther began to shew himselfe but in the yeere 1517. that very yeere was u Centur. 16. lib. 1. 20. ended the CouÌ„cel of Laterane held at Rome finished by Pope Leo the teÌ„th And there consultation was had of reforming the manners of the Church and of recalling the Bohemians to the vnity of the Church of Rome 19 And as these testimonies do coÌ„vince that the ChristiaÌ„ coÌ„fessioÌ„ of Hus was not extinguished at the coÌ„ming of M. Luther so may there be good reasoÌ„ assigned why it did so loÌ„g coÌ„tinue in as much as it was embraced by many earnestly maintaned eveÌ„ vnto the death WheÌ„ Hus begaÌ„ first to preach the people which vsed haÌ„dy x Cochl lib. 1. craftes did with great desire heare his sermons and did reade the Scriptures being turned by him into their mother tongue so that they could dispute with the Priests which the very women were able to do yea one woman did make a booke Not long after three of the y Ibidem scholers of this preacher did affirme that the Pope z Iohan. â—…3 theÌ„ living was Antichrist who had proclaimed a Croisado against a Christian King that was Ladislaus King of Naples then infesting the lands of the Church of Rome These three persons were martyred for this speech tooke their death patiently In small processe of time this doctrin so multiplied that as Onuphrius hath a In tabula Concil ante Platinae Histor. the Councell of Constance was called principally for two things the one was against the Hussites the other to take away the sehisme betweene the Popes These of likely-hood grew great that now a general CouÌ„cel was called against theÌ„ Neither did the people only agree in faith with Iohn Hus but the Nobles of Bohemia stood apparaÌ„tly for him in so much that they sent two b Io. Fox in Concil Constant. Historia severall soleÌ„ne supplicatioÌ„s to the CouÌ„cel at CoÌ„staÌ„ce in his behalf And wheÌ„ these their requests were neglected Iohn Hus Hierome of Prage coÌ„trary to the Emperours safe coÌ„duct given to the former of theÌ„ were burnt the Nobles c Cochl l. 4. of Bohemia did mightily murmure against the fathers of the CouÌ„cell insomuch that Sigismund the Emperour to give them satisfaction on his behalfe did write vnto theÌ„ excusing himself touching the death of these two meÌ„ laying the fault vpoÌ„ the CouÌ„cel But this gave not coÌ„tentmeÌ„t to the BohemiaÌ„s now robbed of their principal pastour but being moved at the perfidiousnes of those at CoÌ„stance they asseÌ„bled theÌ„selves togither to the nuÌ„ber of d Ibidem thirty thousaÌ„d in the fields vpoÌ„ three huÌ„dred tables erected for that purpose they received the Eucharist in both kinds Afterward they rushing into the Churches Monasteries did break down the Images there It was not long after but that vnder Iohannes Zisca a noble victorious warriour these Hussites grew to bee of souldiours e Lib. 5. Petr Messias in Sigismundo forty thousaÌ„ds in one army who got into their haÌ„ds the castle of Prage the chief city of Bohemia TheÌ„ not long after did Pope Martin the 5. publish a Croisado against these whoÌ„ he called Heretikes promising remissioÌ„ of their sins to such as could destroy them NotwithstaÌ„ding these hated persoÌ„s did stil prosper getting many victories vnder Procopius other Captaines but especially vnder Zisca who was of that dexterity and felicity in his warres as that Cochleus almost amased at his strange successe saith that f Lib. 5. scaÌ„t any history of the Greekes or Hebrewes or Latins doth meÌ„tioÌ„ such a Generall as Zisca was He built a new city as a refuge for his meÌ„ called it Thabor wherof diverse embracing the doctrine of Hus were afterward called Thaborites A g Lib. 6 secoÌ„d time time did Pope Martin proclaime a Croisado against theÌ„ granting remissioÌ„ of sins to al who did either fight or coÌ„tribute mony against theÌ„ Vpon which there were at one time forty h Ibidem thousaÌ„d Germaine horsemeÌ„ gathered to destroy theÌ„ but such was the terror of their name that vpoÌ„ the approaching to theÌ„ the horsemeÌ„ of their own accord turned their backs fled The Popish Auctor saith that there was in this some secret iudgmeÌ„t of God but he thinketh the cause of their ill successe was that they had Bishops Priests to their leaders Cap taines By this time came on the CouÌ„cel of Basil which as i In tabula ante Platinam Onuphrius saith was helde against the Hussites This sheweth that they were many which may also appeare in that the Fathers at Basil did by an indulgeÌ„ce graÌ„t to the BohemiaÌ„s this dispeÌ„sutioÌ„ that coÌ„trary to the Acte of the k Sess. 13. CouÌ„cel of CoÌ„staÌ„ce they might receive the Eucharist both in bread wine Genebrard who was ever a true servant to the Pope l Genebrard lib. 4 Chronograph confesseth so much but addeth withall that the cuppe was permitted vnto theÌ„ because that alwaies before had beene their custome so to communicates yet saith he al was on that condition that they should not finde fault with the contrarie vse nor sever themselues from
the Catholike Church in other rites and doctrines Cochleus m Lib. 7. nameth no such condition Nay to shew that simply and directly it was yeelded vnto them he reporteth that the Legates of the Councell of Basile did thus expound that which was concluded in the Bohemians behalfe n Lib. 8. The Councell doth permitte the Eucharist vnder both kindes not tolerating it only as a thing evil as to the Iewes was permitted a bill of divorce but so that by the auctority of Christ his Church it is lawful profitable to the worthie receivers Where is it likely that vnlesse the Bohemians now after Husses death had bin a stroÌ„g party the Antichristian rabble would have yeelded to their importunitie so directlie against the Canon of the nexte precedent Councel Indeed the o Ibidem Emperour Sigismund did afterward take a course to lessen their nuÌ„ber when he sent many of them into Hungary against the Turks that there they might either conquering winne to him victories or being conquered themselues so be destroyed and perish Hee who list to see more concerning the multitude of these Professours let him but looke on p Hist. Bohâ—… ca 35. cap 50. Epist. 130. diverse places in the works of Aeneas Sylvius who was afterward Pope by the name of Pius 2. he shall finde him reporting of his own knowledge as travailing himselfe into Bohemia that they were many and very earnest also in their Religion 20 If here it should bee replyed that these perhaps were base people and of the vulgar who thus followed Iohn Hus but men of learning knowledge or persons of authority they had none to ioine with them the course of the story will easily cleere the same shew that they had both learned Pastours great Magistrats who beleeved as they beleeved stood wholy with theÌ„ Of what literature Hâ—… himselfe was is evident by his works yet remaining by his personal withstanding the whole CouÌ„cel of Constance And what learning what eloquence what memory all admirable were in Hierome of Prage as also with what singular patience he tooke his death is most significantly delivered in an q Ad Leonardum 〈◊〉 Epistle of Poggius who as an eie-witnes beheld him seemed to bee much affected with the singular partes of the man Which noble testimony of that worthy Poggius is acknowledged by r Lib 3. Cochleus While these two lived there were diverse s Lib 2. priests s Lib. 1. preachers which agreed in their Doctrine in their Sermons reproved the Popish Cleargy for their Simony keeping of Concubâ—… avarice riot secular-like pride But after the death of those two famous servaÌ„ts of God their t Lib. 4. followers got to them a Bishop who was Suffragane to the Arch-bishop of Prage and by him they put into holy Orders as many Clerkes as they would Which the Arch-bishop tooke so il that he suspended his Suffragane But it was not long before that u Lib. 5. CoÌ„radus the Arch-bishop himselfe became a Hussite also as the Author calleth him Vnder this Conradus as president of the assembly these Hussites held a CouÌ„cel at Prage in the year 1421. there they compiled a CoÌ„fessioÌ„ of their faith This Cause did the said Archbishop many Barons of Bohemia afterward stifly mainetaine and complained against the Emperor SigismuÌ„d for offring wrong to those of their Religion u Ibidem Alexander also the Duke of Lituania did giue these Hushtes aide which moved Pope Martin the 5 to write vnto him in this sort Know that thou couldst not giue thy faith to heretikes which are the â—…ors of the holy faith that thou dost sin deadly of thou shalt keepe it because there cannot bee any fellowship of a beleever with an insidel Thus did the vertuous Pope write In x Lib. 8. processe of time there grew a parley betweene Sigismund the Emperour the Bohemians There among the Compacts this was one that the Bishops should promote to holy Orders the Bohemians even Hussites which were of the Universitie of Prage And they might well deserue to be reputed Vniversity meÌ„ for Cochleus himselfe witnesseth that the Priests of the Thaborits were skilled in argâ—…g exercised in the holy Scripture y Lib. 10. Rokizana one of theÌ„ did vndertake to dispute with Capistranus a great learned Papist By that time that the yeare 1453. was come Aeneas Sylvius doth complaine that the kingdome of Bohemia was wholy z Lib. 11. governed by heretiks Now all the Nobility all the CoÌ„minalty is subiect to an heretike That was one George or Gyrziko Governor of the kingdome of Bohemia vnder king Ladâ—…slaus But when Ladâ—…slaus was dead this a Lib. 12. George himselfe was by the Nobles and the People chosen King of that country And continuing the auncient profession of his Religion about the yeare 1458 those of Uratislavia and Silesia doe refuse to obey him as being an heretike Notwithstanding Pope Pius the 2. then intending warres against tho Turke did by all meanes perswade theÌ„ that they should yeeld obedience to him This George saith the Authour was borne and brought vp in the heresie of the Hussites Now when Pope Pius did interpose himselfe as a mediatour betweene this King and his Subiects George did require of the Pope that he might keepe the Compacts agreed vpon at Basill in behalfe of the Bohemians And when b Ibidem Pius vvoulde not yeeld there-vnto the king calleth togither the Estates of his kingdome and protesteth that he would liue die in those Compacts so did also the Nobles which were Hussits This was done at Prage in the yeare 1462. This resolutenesse of his caused that Pope to tolerate many things in him but Paul 2. who succeeded in that See of Rome did excommunicate that king and set vp a Croisado against him Also he gaue to Matthias the king of Hungary the title of king of Bohemia c Apud Platin Onuphrius in the life of Paulus 2 saith that the Pope did excommunicate him depriue him of his kingdome Indeed for seaven years this George and Mathias did warre for it and Mathias got from him Moravia and Silesia and a good part of the kingdome of Bohemia Vratislavia also and some other Provinces and citties did put themselues in subiection of Mathias Yet did not George deale hardly with the Papists which were at Prage but in his greatest extremity did vse both the advise and aide of many Nobles of the Popish beleefe At length after the continuance of warre for seaven years d Cochl lib. 12. Mathias coÌ„cludeth a peace with king George both against the will of the Pope and the Emperour And then this king was coÌ„tent to aske of the Pope an absolution from the excommunication some Princes being mediatours for him in that respect But before the Agents could returne from Rome the king died in the yeare
vvriting against u Contra 18 articul Wiolif VViclif maketh y In articulo 11. 12. tvvise mention of a booke of his ovvne sent to the Bishoppe of Hereford Dâ—…num Ersordenseâ—… he calleth him in confutation of the booke of VValter Britte 27 While I wrâ—…e these thinges I cannot but thinke vpon the audacious absurdnesse of my ignorant Doctour who blusheth not to vtter that is is y Ration 1. most manifest that all in England vvere Papistes vvithout exception from the first Christening thereof vntill this age of King Henry the eight Hee is doubtlesse an honest man and worthy to be trusted on his word It is not only manifest but most manifest not that the greatest part but all yea beâ—… shal not be scanted all wâ—…ut â—…ption were â—…apistes c. Were Iohn Wiclifâ—… bones burnt because he was a Papist were the Bulâ—… of the Pope against him for that cause and were the Archbishop Arondelâ—… Costâ—… against his followers so severe because they were Papists The man is hâ—… to be pittied for his simplicity A man may know by the lawes ProclamatioÌ„s letters proceedings by the State against some as against Heretickes As also by the Records of Bishops yet extant by the manifold executions burnings afterward that even in that deepe time of ignorance England did give most noble testimony of Christs truth against Popery eveÌ„ so farre as to the fiery trial If the Christian Reader peruse the Ecclesiastical History of M r. Foxe he shal find how z 〈◊〉 An. 1400. sub K. Henrie 4. before the Coâ—… William Saâ—… a Priest was burnt after him Iohn Baâ—…y and that because they were Wiclevists oâ—… Lâ—… as they the â—…ed them and not because they were Papists There are the reasons also and asseveratioÌ„s of Pâ—…y and Thorpe against Popery with diverse other matters And is it â—…ot to bee thought that the Heretikes increased when a â—…ynode a 〈◊〉 Sub Reg. Henric. 5. was assembled in Sâ—… Pâ—… Church at London into the vvhich â—…me 〈◊〉 Inquisitoâ—… who in a former Synode were appointed to 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 the vvâ—…gs of VVâ—… vvherein they found 24â—… Conclusions an vvhich they supposed to bee Iâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the 〈◊〉 â—…eere of K. Henry the 〈◊〉 dâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ward the L. 〈◊〉 was â—…ge 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as 〈◊〉 had beene a â—…de of Traiâ—… but hee was then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—…ed Hâ—… So was oâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for his 〈◊〉 consumed to 〈◊〉 Not longâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 besideâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Sub 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Religion 〈◊〉 and VVâ—… tvvo 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 followed afterwardâ—… Neither â—…d â—…he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and of King 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 escape 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of sundrie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 CHRISTâ—… 〈◊〉 sake 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 profession of the â—…hy the particular stories of vvhome may bâ—…â—…ounde in the Authour abouâ—… 〈◊〉 The Clergy of these times did beare much sway with their Princes and lefte no meanes vâ—…ught no stone vnâ—…ned to keepe vp the dignitie and preheminence of their Romish Hierarchy and the superstitions Idolatry vvhich then vvas in vse Novve â—…in the raignes of all these Princes so many were slaughtered for the testimonie of a good conscience hovve manie weake brethren vvere there vvho did not make open profession of their faith and hovve many did there lie hid diverse of them in probabilitie having confederates and some of them being Priestes and therefore not vnlikely to have learning both to confirme themselves in the truth and such other as hearde them Thus have I both in England and else-vvhere brought vp the doctrine of the Gospell vntill the time of Iohn VViclef who flourished in the yeere 1371. 28 Heere it may please the Reader to remember that the iudgment before cited of â—…vo c Gregor 11. Gregor 12. Popes vvas that VViclef taught the doctrine of Marsilius of Padua and of Iohn of 〈◊〉 Of the later of these there yet appeareth no monument vvritten But hee ioyned in d Catalog test verle lib. 18. opinion vvith the former But as for Marsilius Patavinus our Adversties cannot but acknovvledge him to bee a verie learned man after the measure of the age vvherein hee lived vvhich vvas in the yeere 1324. Hee vvrote a e Defensor pacis booke against the vsurped power of the Bishope of Rome vvhich argument hee entred into in behalfe of the Emperour Levvis of Bavâ—…e vvho vvas mightily laide at by three Popes successiuelie There the Authour avovveth as right and iust the supreme authoritie of the Emperour displaying the iniquitie of the Popes vsurpation over Christian Princes and Generall Councels The booke is vvoorth the reading to see vvhether all in times past did allowe of the Popes doctrine and proceedinges or not His opinions are these That the Pope is not superiour to other Bishoppes and much lâ—… the Emperour and civill Magistraâ—… That thing as are to bee decided by the â—…ure Thâ—… 〈◊〉 men of the laiâ—… 〈◊〉 in Councels That the Clergy and Pope himselfe are to bee subiect to Magistrates That the Church is the 〈◊〉 companie of the faithfull That CHRIST is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the Church and appointed 〈◊〉 to bee 〈◊〉 Uiâ—… That Priestes may bee â—…ryed That Saint Peter was 〈◊〉 at Rome That the Popish Synagoge 〈◊〉 a dâ—… of theeves That the doctrine of the Pâ—… not to bee follovved because it leadeth to everlasting destructâ—… In the time of this Marsilius lived that noble Poet Danie vvho vvrote also a booke against the Pope f Petrus Messias in Ludovico Câ—… the Monarchie of the Emperour but for taking part vvith Lewes of Bavâ—…ere hee vvas condemned for an heretike and his booke â—…hereticall Then also vvrote g Catal. test verit lib. 18. Occam directly to the same purpose but for his labour therein and his large reproofe of the Papâ—…cie in other pointes hee was excommunicated by the romane Bishop vvhich he so much contemned that hee not vnwillingly dyed vnder that sentence Aboute that time vvere here and there dispersed sundry godly men who sawe more then the common sorte touching Religion As h Ibid. ex Hen. de Erford Hayâ—… a Minorite vvho frequently saide in his Sermons that the Church of Rome vvat the vvhere of Babylon and that the Pope and Cardinals vvere meere Aâ—… vvhich propositions were helde somevvhat before also by i Ibidem Gerâ—… and Dulcinus tvvo learned men This Duâ—… may be thought to haue had many followers since k Hist. Hussit lib. 2. Cochleus coulde say that Iohn Hus committed spirituall fornication with the Wâ—…sts and with the Dulâ—…nists The same opinions concerning the Pope and Rome did that rare man l Epist. 20. in Poesi Italica Franciscus Petrarche seeme fully to embrace as may appeare to any who will reade his vvorkes hovvsoever Cardinall
m In AppeÌ„d ad lib. de Romano Poutif c. 20 Ballarmine labour to make the worlde beleeve otherwise beeing desirous to haue vs thinkeâ—… that Petrarch spake not against the Pope but some abuses in the Courte of Rome And to make it plaine that it vvas not a slight conceipt or onely in a fewe that the Pope vvas 〈◊〉 and Rome vvas Babylon Apocal 17. God stirred vp yet more in that age vvho proclaimed the same in 〈◊〉 As n Genebr Chronogr l. 4. An 13â—…7 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Bâ—… or â—…sis vvho vvas a Minoâ—… and for teaching so vvas digged vp after that hee vvas deed and his body by the sentence of Pope Clement the siâ—… vvas burnt A fevv yeares after him did o Catal. teâ—… verit lib. 18 〈◊〉 â—…es de Râ—…ssa a Monke teach the same doctrine vvhich as every man may gesse doth 〈◊〉 the Papacy in every respect p Academ 〈◊〉 Christ. Clas 15. Iohannes Gâ—… came not so fat but saw in his age many horrible abuses of the Church of Rome and in his writings spake liberally of it And it did bite deepe when q De auferibilitate Papae ab Ecclesia hee disputed that the Pope mighte bee taken safely away from the Church and yet â—…o daunger follovve of it But let vs novve goe a little higher 29. I mentioned before how Cochleus saith that Iohn Hus did take his doctrine from the Wiclevists and the Dulcinists Heare I pray you what he saith r Hist. lib. 2. Hâ—… did commit spirituall fornication with many aliens with the Wiclevists the Dulcinists with the Leonists the Walâ—…ses the Alâ—…ingenses and other of that sorte enimies of the Church of Rome These Leonists or poore men of Lyons and VValdenses and Albingenses vvere the same men but diversly vpon diverse occasions tearmed by the Romane Synagoge which hated them Their opinions then did Hus mainetaine Aeneas Sylvius doth also directly witnesse the same affirming that the s Hist Bohem ca. 35. Hussites did embrace the opinions of the VValdenses There you may see that their doctrine vvas against the Primacy of the Pope Purgatorie and such like matters s Chron. lib. 4. Genebrarde vvho sayeth that these VValdenses beganne Anno 1170 or as some other vvill 1218. rehearseth out of Sylvius these opinions of theirs that praiers for the deade and Purgatorie-fire are an invention of the Priestes covetousnesse that holy Images are to be defaced that Confirmation and extreame Vnction are no Sacramentes that auricular Confession is a trifling thing Hee vvho list may see a greate many more of their t Catal. test verit li. 〈◊〉 positions agreeing with the doctrine which vve teach vvhich may vvell also bee gathered from the Iesuites themselues For that is the cause that u In prefat generall CoÌ„trovers Bellarmine ioineth these togither as heretikes the Berâ—…garians the Petrobrusiant the VValdenses the Albingenses the UUiclevistes the Hussites the Lutherans c. And u Lib. 1. c. 19. Lewes Richeome another of that Society in his defence of the Masse against the Lorde Plessis saieth that the Ministers for the confirming of their figuratiue sence in This is my bodie haue none for their Doctours for their Auncients for their Fathers but Berengarius â—…uinglius Calvin 〈◊〉 VViclef the Albingenses the UUaldenses These Waldenses then and Albingenses are ours by the confession of our Adversaries And of these long agone there were no smal company For as Du x Hist. li. 12. Haillan in the life of Philip the 3. King of Fraunce speaketh being driven from Lyons in Fraunce they withdrew themselues into Lombardy where they so multiplied that their doctrine began to spread through Italy and came as farre as Sicely As the same Authour y Lib. 9. writeth Philippus Augustus came to his kingdome Anno 1180. which is nowe more then foure hundred yeares since And in his time it was that the Albingenses did so increase in Fraunce that the Pope and Princes adioyning were afraide of their number He who readeth the story of them shall see that they are reported to haue held many grosse wicked and absurde opinions mingled with their true doctrine But Du. Haillan the best and most iudicious Chronicler of Fraunce and no partiall witnesse in our behalfe since his profession touching religion was such that he was imployed to write that story by K. Henrie the thirde had not so little wit but that he perceived those imputations to be laid on them in odium and of purpose to procure their defamation See how wisely he speaketh truth and his conscience and yet so coucheth it that his felows might not iustly be offended at his words z Lib. 10. Although saith he these Albingenses had evill opinions yet so it is that these did not stir vp the 〈◊〉 of the Pope and of great Princes against them so much as their libertie of speech did vvherewith they vsed to blame the vices 〈◊〉 dissolutenesse of the said Princes and of the Cleargy yea to taxe the vices and actions of the Popes This was the principall point which brought them into vniversall hatred and which charged them with more evill opinions then they had Now first that they were not men infamous either for their vile opinions or filthy conversation and secondly that they were not onely base and poore people it is evident by this that so many noble and worthy men tooke parte with them yea to the adventuring of their liues in their company and for then behalfe as the a Ibidem Counties or Earles of Tholouse of Cominges of Bigerre of Carâ—… yea the King of Arragon And when Raimund this Earle of Tholouse was for his beleefe excommunicated by the Pope and a Croisado was proclaimed against him and the Albingenses as if they had beene Saracens or Infidels not onely the Counties of Foix Cominges came with all their strength to assist Raimund but Alphonsus the king of Arragon came in his owne person to his succour as beeing his kins-man and his friend And when all these were mett togither the report is saith Du Haillan that the armie of these heretikes did consist of about one hundred thousand fighting men These things being thus discovered by men of your owne part be ashamed you Papistes and blush to spread among your simple and credulous followers that never men did as we do nor beleeved as we beleeue before Luthers time and al Christendome formerly liked of the Papistical doctrine and proceedings But because you shall yet heare one testimony farther touching these Albingenses and Waldenses how honest and truely religious they were I will cite what one Reinerius a man who did hate them and was as it is supposed an Inquisit or against them did report concerning them now three hundred yeares agone or there about Thus then among much other matter he saith of them b Catal test verit lib. 15. There were many sects of heretikes long agone among all which sects that are or
were there is not one more pernicious to the Church of God then that of the Poore men of Lyons for three causes First because it is of longer continuance Some say that it hath endured from the time of Sylvester Other say that from the time of the Apostles The second is because it is more generall For there is almost no land in which this sect doth not creepe The thirde that whereas all other by the immâ—…ity of their Blasphemies against God do make men abhorte them this of the Lyonists having a great shew of godlinesse because they doe liue iustly before men and do beleeue all things well of God and all the Articles which are contained in the Creede only the Church of Rome they doe blaspheame and hate which the multitude is easie to beleeue and as Sampsoni Foxes had their faces severall waies but their tayles tyed one to the other so heretikes are diverse in sects among themselves but in the impugning of the Church they are vnited There can hardly be found a more honorable testimony out of the mouth or penne of a bitter and bloudy adversary as he was who wrote this and much more concerning those good servountes of God 30 VVe shall not neede to ascende any higher since hee giveth witnesse of the antiquity of their profession long before his â—…lme VVhich otherwise to make plaine is as easie as to deliver that which hitherto I have spoken And it is not to bee conceived that Petrus VValdâ—… of whom the VValdenses tooke their name at Lions had his doctrine from no body but that of himselfe he attained to his owne knowledge since he was not deeply learned c Matth. Parâ—… in Gul. Conquestore Berengarius indeede vvas onely called in question for denying of Transubstantiation in the Sacrament but it may well bee thought that in some thing else hee dissented from the Church of Rome And albeit by his ovvne vveakenesse and the importunitie of the Clergie hee yeelded once or tvvise to recant and abiure the true doctrine vvhich hee helde yet hee had many d CoÌ„tinuat histor de gestis Anglorum lib. 3. 27. scholers vvho by his example vvould not bee driven from the right Beleefe which they had apprehended These scholers were in e Malmisbur lib 3. France in great numbers and in diverse other Landes And Genebrard cannot conceale it but that about the f Chronogr lib. 4. yeere of our LORD 1088. Basilius the Monke did set on foote againe the errour of Berengarius And might not the doctrine of both these bee sucked from Bertram who wrote so learnedly and so directlie out of the Scriptures and Fathers against the Reall-presence and Transubstantiation that the Index g In Bertramo Expurgatorius cannot tell vvhat to make of him but the Bishoppe of h Resp. ad Dan. Tilen fol. 258. Eureux vnder the name of Henrie Connestable tearmeth him the greate fore-runner of all the Sacramentaries and i La saincte Messe declar lib. 2. 4 Richâ—…e the Iesuit disclaimeth him plainelie as a Sacramentarie Heretike Then Calvin and Zuinglius vvere not the first vvho gaine-saide Transubstantiation Before our ascending thus highe vvee might tell you of Saint Bernard vvhome although it is likelie at the first dashe you will chalendge as your ovvne yet vvhen you have vvell advised on him you may let him goe againe For albeit hee had his errours vvhich hee sucked from the age vvherein hee lived and vvee may not in all thinges subscribe to his iudgement but say of him as commonlie it is spoken Bernardiâ—… non vidit omnia yet vvee finde in him sâ—…rem partem a liberall profession of manie good and sound pointes agreeable to the Gospell He for a fashion acknowledgeth maine matters to bee in the Pope and giveth him k De considerat ad Eugen. lib. 2. 8. greater titles then any Papist can iustifie but it is by such infinuation to winne him the more attention froÌ„ Eugenius and then having procured liberty or rather taken it to himselfe hee schooleth and lessoneth the Pope plainely shewing that hee liked not of their ordinarie courses neither did hee repute him to have that preheminence or prerogative which his Parasites did allowe him But touching the matter l Serm. 61. in Cantiâ—… of merit by good workes for m Epist. 190. Iustification by faith alone in Christ for n De gratia libero arbitrio Free-will for o Serm. 3. de 7. misericordijs Certaine assurance of salvation in the death and by the strength of our Saviour and for p Serm. in Concil Rhemens dislikeing then the vile life of the Clergy how cleâ—…re how pregnant how copious is hee These thinges wee teach togither with him and notwithstanding his other slippes wee doubt not but his soule doth rest with the Lord God pardoning vnto him his errours and ignorances which hee being caried vvith the streame of that time did never discusse but tooke them as they were delivered to him without scanning or examining And to this good hope we are firmely induced by that saying of Saint Paule q 1. Cor 3. 11. Other foundation can no man laye then that vvhich iâ—…aide vvhich is Iesus Christ And if anie man builde on this foundation golde silver precious stones timber hay or stubble everie mans worke shall bee made manifest for the day shall declare it because it shall bee reveiled by the fire and the fire shall trie everie mans vvorke of vvhat sorte it is If any mans vvorke that hee hath builte vpon abide hee shall receive vvages If any mans vvorke burne hee shall lose but hee shall bee safe himselfe Hee helde the foundation of Iustification by onely faith in Christ and that our best deedes are but r De gratia liber arbitr via regni non cause regnandâ—… the vvay to the kingdome not the cause of raigning and for that cause we doubt not but his soule is safe though his hay and stubble of praying vnto Saints and other such stuffe as cannot endure the fire of the holy Ghosts triall do burne and consume And this is our iudgment touching many other both before and after the time of Saint Bernard that holding Christâ—…e foundation aright and groning vnder the heavy but then of humane Traditions Satisfactions and other Popish trash they by a generall repentance from their errours and lâ—…pses knowne and vnknowne and by an assured faith in their Saviour did finde favour with the Lord. Such as these vvere vvee holde to bee Gods good servants to be of the number of the Elect and propter saâ—…rem 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for their founder and better parte to bee of that Church vvhereof vvee are to bee members of that bodye vvhereof by the grace of Christ vvee are a portion 31 And in this respect our setled and resolved iudgement is that when it is asked where our Church in former ages was we may besides that which formerly hath beene
giue them a milder appellation of Romanistes and Papistes or in Lâ—…in Pontifiâ—…ij because they fetch their Dictates and Oracles from Rome and more respect the voice of their Pope then the voice of Almightie God they not sparing to thrust that miserable man into Christs place and to make him not so much a ministerial aâ—… 〈◊〉 monstrous head of their vn-Catholike Congregation And since the name of Papists doth so please the that in the former Chapter they â—…ssume it and in this Chapter they 〈◊〉 it giving reason vvhy they shoulde haue it as beeing all one vvith their pretended Catholikes wee will not envy it them but vvith good liberty they may take it Neither shall they neede to trouble themselues so farre as to cite Saint Chrysostome for the ratifying of it His words are these f Homil. 33 in Acta But if we wil also haue the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of any man it is not as from the beginners of heresies but as from those who are rulers â—…ver vs do governâ—… the Church The reason of which speech in that reverend Father I cannot hastily gesse at since wee finde not that in or before his time the Christians were called by the name of any of the Rulers over the Church not Petrians noâ—… Paulians nor any such name Only his owne adversaries tearmed theÌ„ who did sticke close vnto him g Soâ—…omen lib. 8. 21. Iâ—…ita his proper name being Ioannes and the appellation of 〈◊〉 beeing afterwarde given vnto him as a Cogâ—… for his eloquence In which respect it is probable that for the defence of himselfe and those which followed him in the truth he did vse the words before cited T. HILL BVt yet the Catholikes are not called Papists but only of a few Lutherans in Germany and of some other their adherentes in other countreyâ—…â—…ere about for in Greece Asia Afrike and in the Inâ—…s as iâ—… Italy Spaine Sicily and in other countreyes of Europe the 〈◊〉 of Papists iâ—… vâ—…terly vnknowne The name therefore of Papists is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vsed but only of a few and never heard of before Luther 〈◊〉 for that hee coulâ—… not call them after the proper name of any one man because there was nevâ—…r any such in the Church which â—…ther brought vp any new doctrine or changed the Religion of his Predecessours G. ABBOT IF you would you might quickly know that names are given for distinction sake wheÌ„ those persons to whom the names belong are to bee distinguished from a generall sort they haue names more generall but when from a speciall comprehended in their own generall they are to haue appellations more special In Greece if a man had beene disposed to put a difference betweene one that was learned and the vulgar vnlearned people it had been a good note of distinction to say he is a Philosopher But when the question grew betweene several Sects their opinions then for more particular difference it was not enough to say that Diogenes was a Philosopher but he was a Cynick such a one was an Epicurean another a Peripaâ—…eticke this an Academike that a Platonicke In some sence it is enough to say that in the yeare 1588 her Maiesty of England had against the Spaniard a campe of so many thousand English resolute meÌ„ religious and well appointed but when there is question of particulars in that campe then the Oxford-sheere men had those Captaines the Wilt-shire men these and their colours were several So if in India or Asia the opposition must be betweene the Infidels or Mahumetans on the one side and the servants of Christ of what sort soever they be on the other side it is enough to say in generall thus or thus do the Christians But if there be occasion to particularize any thing then the Christians in Spaine or those in Germany are thus and thus affected VVhen speech is of the doctrine of Mahomet opposed to Christianity the name Mahumetane will comprehend the Persian and his subiects the Turke and his vassals the kings of Argier Tunis and Marocco and all that are vnder them But when we talke of the difference in Mahomets profession betweene the Turke and the Persian vvhich hath on either party cost much bloud we say the Persian thus holdeth the Turke beleeveth thus Wheresoever in Christendome there is disagreemeÌ„t in ReligioÌ„ some holding for the Pope and some other against him there the name Papist is frequent this is not only in Germany but God be praysed for it in Norway and Sweden and Denmarke in Polonia in Fraunce England Scotland the Low Countryes whersoever else the Gospell is knowne either openly or secretly Yea in Italy Spaine and Sicily not only the name of Papistes but the whole doctrine of Popery woulde quickely come in question were it not for your bloudy Inquisition or cruell massacring otherwise of such as bend not that way And yet they be not able to extirpate Gods truth As for the Greekes they loue you not neither like of your Religion and Asia Africa and the Indies knowe very little of our differences in Profession vnlesse it bee by the Christians themselves and that onely heere and there as at Aleppo peradventure or some other Marte towne except you vvill name a fewe creekes or corners of Africa and the East Indies where the Portingales have incroched or those partes of the VVest Indies where the Spaniards have devoured vp almost all the olde inhabitants and planted themselues and to aske of these Portingales and Spaniards whether they bee ought but Catholikes is not to aske a mans felow but to aske a mans selfe whether he be a theefe or no But surely the Infidels or Turkes or Greekes do neither call you nor know you by that name And if Luther were the first who gave you that title of Papiste which pleaseth you so much you are behoulding to him for fitting you so right not that you might not lustly have bin so called before But hee having occasion to display your impiety to the full and God inableing him with learning and knowledge as also with spirit and wit for that purpose hee gave you a name most sutable to your nature which is the truest vse of appellations and names It very well agreeth with you for if Christians be those who harken vnto Christ and are directed by him you may well be Papists who depend on the onely voice and direction of the Pope T. HILL WHereas 〈◊〉 Heretikes have â—…ver take their names of some one who began that Havesy as the Nestorians of Nestorius the Pelagius of Pelagius Lutherans of Luther Calvinists of Calvin c. And although Luther tearmed them Papistes yet knevve hee so vvell in his conscience that they ever had beene and ought to bee called Catholikes as that he caused his followers to change their Creede in saying I beleeve the Christian Church and not I beleeve the Gatholike 〈◊〉 Mo. 1. Church for feare least they should be thought to
worthy men were so affected in al their teachings and therefore as also for their admirable learning iudgment they made choise of them before all the great Clerkes which were in Europe And that those who called them hither were not deceived in them the excellent monuments which they have lest in writing behinde them doe testifie to the world T. HILL THIS vnity of Catholikes and discord of Protestants most manifestly sheweth that as the Apostles were they for whom our Saviour prayed to his father was heard of him Holy father keepe them in thy name whom thou hast given me that they may be one as we also be one Iohn seaventeene so they of the Catholike Romane Religion be they for whom in the words following he prayed was heard Not for them doe I aske only but also for them which shal beleeve by their preaching in mee that all may bee one as thou father in me and I in thee that also they in vs may be one and heereof it necessarily followeth that they be of the true Church for that none but they observe and keepe the Unity which he obtained â—…or them of his heavenly Father G. ABBOT 10 THese texts did your maister q Motiv 27. Bristow cite this argument in expresse words did he frame to your handes gentle M. Doctor you might have done wel to have added some our place more of your owne reading But to answere you both togither this maketh nothing against vs for we ioyne in coÌ„sent for all material points of the substaÌ„ce of salvation not only with our selves but with all the faithfull and rightly beleeving which have bin in the world with the Patriarkes the Prophets the Apostles the Fathers of the Primitive Church and the Martyrs neither can you or the greatest Goliah of your side ever proove the contrary Touch any article of our doctrine or any conclusion which wee maintaine and wee will make it good against you Staphilus r Apolog. 〈◊〉 Staphil himselfe could cite it as the saying of Smideline that among the Lutherans and Zuinglians there is no variance of any waight or force touching any articles of our saith of Christian Religion This tale therefore of discord do you tell to your bleare-eyed followers who cannot discerne colours All right beleevers are satisfied for this matter But on the other side the agreement which is among you is but a conspiracie against Christs honour even such a combination as was betweene s Mat. 16. 57 Luk. 23. 12. Herode and Pilate Annas and Caiphas the Scribes Pharisees Priests people to bring our blessed Saviour to the crosse Your consent is not in God nor in his sonne Iesus but to robbe them both of their glory to bestowe it on your I doll at Rome You agree to keepe your Congregations in ignorance to proclaime your kitchin-warming Purgatory to set your Masses Pardons at sale to picke mens s Sparing discovery of Iesuites purses by your Iesuitical exercise to leade theÌ„ as bond slaues to hell this is it wherin you consent So that as one did once read Vanity for Unity in the Psalme Behold how good ioyfull a thing it is brethren Ps. 133. 1. to dwell togither in Vanity so your vnity is vanity your coÌ„sent is cousenning tobe guile God al good Christians so farre forth as you may The title of this your present Chapter might better have bin Vanity Cousenning theÌ„ Vnity Consent for you coÌ„spire to do evil eveÌ„ to betray the soules of meÌ„ redeemed with the blood of the everlasting covenant The text of Ieremy would well fit this your combination u Ier. 11. 9. A conspiracy is found among the meÌ„ of Iudah among the inhabitants of Ierusalem They are turned backe to the iniquity of their fore-fathers which refused to heare my words and they went after other Gods to serve them thus the house of Israel the house of Iudah have brokeÌ„ my covenaÌ„t which I made with their fathers T. HILL AND surely it cannot proceede but from the Holy Ghost that all Sacredwriters of the Catholike Romane Church although being Aug. lib 18. de civitat dei Cap 41. men of diverse Nations Times and Languages yet have so wonderfully consented agreed among theÌ„selves as we see they have done G. ABBOT 11 YOV would make your sily disciples beleeve that this propositioÌ„ of yours so fraÌ„dulently propounded is confirmed by S t. Austen whose words in the place quoted in your margeÌ„t are as much to your purpose as if a man being at Barwike should take S t. Michaels mounte in his way to goe see Powles church at LoÌ„don If you had but looked the title of that Chapter in Austen it would have told you that the authour doth there speake of the agreement of the Canonicall Scriptures amonge themselves And if you had read the Chapter you might have found the drifte to bee that whereas all the olde Philosophers in their opinions and writings dissented eche from other the pen-men of the Scriptures being the Secretaries of the Holy Ghost did not vary at all His words are these u Lib. 18. cap 41 de â—…v Dei To coÌ„clude our Authors in whom not without a cause the Canon of the Holy Scriptures is set bouÌ„ded God forbid that they should dissint among theÌ„selves in any respect Now wil you be so blasphemous as to ioyne your broken and barbarous writers your Schoole-men Dunces Friers with these Oracles of God for if you do not meane by your sacred writers of the Catholike Romane Church your Divines and teachers of the Popes rotten ReligioÌ„ you speake not to your owne purpose you abuse your Reader with aequivocation and your wordes as most Idle do proove nothing at all But doe your writers indeed of such diverse Nations Times and Languages so wonderfully consent as you speake of Belike you haue reade but a fewe of them or else you would see that many of their tales do hange togither as their x Matth. 26. 60. wordes did who came to witnes against Christ. I suppose you have heard of a certaine booke called the Sentences of Peter Lombard Now I pray you good Sir is there no where in the margent there Hic magister non tenetur Looke in the end of him as he was y Ex officina lacob Du-puâ—…s printed at Paris in the yeare 1573. there you may finde that the facultie of Divines at Paris have condemned for errours sixe and twenty severall doctrines avouched in the workes of that maister of the Sentences in the first booke foure in the second foure in the third three in the fourth fifteene Of these one was that brute beasts doe not receive the very body of Christ although it seemeth that they doe when they devour the Hoste after consecration And is it not to bee supposed that the Scholers of this great Clerk did follow their Rabbi in maintaining the
brought for we wil ever do grant so much as any man can in truth wish to bee collected out of them But what is all this to the purpose since neither then nor since they do agree with the polluted doctrine of your Sinagoge and the faith which olde Rome spreade or mainetained is no more consonant to this infidelity which our new Rome maintaineth then an apple is like an oyster Which one answere although it cut of al your cavils which you fetch from antiquity in praise of Rome and we frequētly inculcate it vnto you yet because it so biteth you will in no sort remember It is a tricke in Rhetorike but it is withall but a base shift to slippe by that or to seeme to forget that which woundeth to the hart and vtterly destroyeth T. HILL BUt the Protestants per adventure will grant that the true Church flourished in those dayes but not afterwardes vntill this age in which they haue reformed the same yet is it most manifest that it flourished afterwardes even vntill this our time no lesse then it and before if not more for in Saint Gregory his daies it was spreade all over the worlde as appeareth by his Epistles to the Bishops of the East of Afrike Spaine France England Sicily And by Saint Bede in cap. 6. Cantic as also by Saint Bernard who disputing before Rogerim King of Sicily avouched that in those daies the East all the West Fraunce Germany Englande Spaniardes and many barbarous nations obeyed the Bishoppe of Rome G. ABBOT 8. The Protestāts not fearing that you shal gaine any thing by that which is truth wil refuse to yeeld you nothing that is true In the first Church that is while the Apostles lived the spouse of Christ for doctrine was most glorious for some hundreds of yeares afterwards her honor flourished not a little yet so that some pety superstitions began to creepe in heere and there But about six hundred years after Christ shee for the outward face did more more droupe in doctrine f 1. Ioh. 2. 18 Antichrists began to peepe vp in the Apostles time but then they coulde not properly be called the great Antichrist And that which was thē was not so eminently as that the followers of the Apostles did much obserue it being then more troubled with persecution or heretiks then with superstition In processe of time matters grew to a worse state evil opiniōs creeping in at last the maine g 2. Thes. 2. 3 Apostasie followed But in this Apostasie very great declining there were who yeelded not to the time but kept thēselues vnspotted of the world especially for mainest points of salvation And it being thus whē things were at the worst God in this later age hath suffred that truth which was more hidden to illustrate the Christian world again Yea but you wil proue that since the Primitiue Church faith florished more thē before or at the least it was not diminished vntill our time You can do wonders Sir or els your own reason would informe you that nothing beene added til these lare navigations of the Portingales Spaniards Christianity must needs be exceedingly diminished when the Saracens Turks for so long space haue devored so much of Asia Europa Africa as is or hath bin vnder thē You are but a simple man for story weaker for Cosmography or els you would not so improbably talke at randon But any thing serveth your turne Well the faith was in Gregories times over all the worlde How proue you this Forsooth he wrote Epistles to Bishops of Spaine France England Sicely yea of the East of Afrike Ergo the faith was over all the world A young man of the age of sixteene yeares hath by his diligence learned without booke the Epistle to Philemō that to the Colossians yea the book of Ruth and the Prophecy of Aggeus therefore he can say all the Bible by hart This is Logike for the Seminaries but not currant elsewhere VVhat wrote he into Tartaria or India or Manicongo what to Finland or Iseland or a thousand places more And what saith Bede h In Cantic 6. The summe of the citisens of that celestiall countrey doth exceede the measure of our estimation But this is spoken of all the faithfull that are were or ever shall bee in the world As also that following vpon the texte Adole scentularum non est numerus There are saith hee young maidens vvhereof there is no number because there are sound innumerable cōpantes of Christiā people Which within seaven lines after he maketh most evident The vniversall Church which in the same her faithfull members from the beginning even vnto the ending of the vvorld from the rising of the Sunne vnto the setting from the North and the Sea doe praise the name of the Lorde Doth this shew any extraordinary thing in the time of Beda or any flourishing of the Church or more thē that there were faithfull toward al parts of the world Such is that which was brought touching S. i In vita Bernard L◅ 217 Bernard who vpō a great schisme in the Church of Rome betweene Innocentius and the Antipape Petrus Leonis being sent for to compose this strife and to see whether he could winne over to Innocētius Robert the King of Sicely who stood for Peter in his Oration saith that if Peters side were good they who acknowledged Innocentius for Pope should bee in very ill case And these hee nameth Then the Easterne Church shall perish vvhich at that time coulde comprehend no more but those fewe Christians vvhich were vvarring in or about Palestina for the Greeke Churches did not then acknowledge the Popes Iurisdiction the whole West shall perish Fraunce shallperish Germany shall perish the Spanish and English and the Barbarian kingdomes shall be drowned in the bottome of the Sea Where he doth not adde these special countries over and aboue the VVest but signifieth vvhat was meant by that generall name that is to saye Fraunce Germany Spaine and England vvith some inferiour Kingdomes So that now if S. Bernard doe say any thing heere your all the worlde is vvonderfully shrunke in the vvetting So you strive against the streame and the farther you goe the worse you goe T. HILL AND in these daies it is all over Italie all over Spaine and in Fraunce in most partes of Germany in Poleland Boheme besides England Hungary Greece Syria Aethiopia Aegypt in vvhich Landes are many Catholikes and in the newe world it flourisheth mightily in all the foure partes of the world Eastward in the Indies VVestward in America Northward in Iaponia Southward in Brasilia in the vttermost partes of Afrike G. ABBOT 9 AS many as be disposed to knowe the Popes strength harken now to his muster-maister Al Italie commeth first as being neerest the Popes nose then all Spaine is the second legion But how would it be in these lands if your Inquisitours did
approved the doctrin of the Papacy acknowledged the Pope to be the Vicar of Christ. This was about the yeer 1439. And to shew his facility in this kind of invention the same Eugenius provided some to come not into the couÌ„cel for feare of the pack being discovered but about the ending of it who said that they were the Legats of the Patriark of Armeniâ—… who also professed to allow the faith of the Pope to approue that which was concluded in the CoÌ„veÌ„ticle of FloreÌ„ce And because such fine trickes as these shold not grow cleane out of vse at the last meeting at TreÌ„t t Idem in Session 21. Pope Pius the 4. had such a PageaÌ„t For he caused Amulius the Cardinal theÌ„ abiding at Rome with him to write a solemne letter to the Fathers at TreÌ„t that one Abdisu the Patriarke of the AssiriaÌ„s in the East dwelling neere the river Tigris was by the advise of his people come to Rome the yeare before accoÌ„panied with some Priests a Deacon That the Pope in a full consistory of his Cardinals had pronounced him to be the Patriarke Pastour of that people yet not so but that first he did heare him make the coÌ„fession of his faith and tooke an othe of him to keepe obedience to the See Apostolike That departing away hee desired to have sent him a copy of the Decrees of the Tridentine couÌ„cel wheÌ„ all there shold be accoÌ„plished But in the meane while he did testify that the same faith which is nowe helde in the Church of Rome had without any variatioÌ„ bin among theÌ„ since the daies of the Apostles All this was divulged after that Abdisu was gone from Rome to the end that no maÌ„ might disprove it What a wroÌ„g did you to your cause that you did not put these in especially since the Iurisdiction of this Patriarke was so large that hee had vnder him in the Great Turkes dominion seaven Archbishoprickes all Metropolitans thirteene Bishoprickes vnder the Sophy of of Persia five Arch-bishoprickes Metropolitane thirteene Bishoprickes â—…yea vnder the dominion of the Portingals in India three Arch-bishoprickes one Bishopricke VVould not this have made a faire shewe when your troupes vvere in the fielde you have done your Lord and Maister the Pope wronge so to oover-skippe these in such a fashion For our part we must winke at such simple trickes as these bee Yet these will serve to abuse the children of vnbeleefe and to gulle many a good silye Papist 11 Some kind harted man wil pity me that wheÌ„ you leade me such a daunce over all the world as you doe I must bee bound to follow you But let my friends take no care for if you make not very good hast I shall bee in some of the places as soone as you Now we come to the new worlds whereof our great Grand-fathers never heard and there we must thinke that Popery springeth by thousands In what countrey are you Sir when to make vp your foure quarters you put Iaponia in the North It is within lesse then ten degrees of the Tropicke and more Southward then Spaine yet with you it must bee North. So Brasilia is South-ward when yet the vpper parte thereof is verie neere to the line If you had named the South Continent for South and the Iles tovvard the Northerne Pole for North or else Cathay vvee had better allovved thereof But vvee must take what you give vs and you must give vvhat you gette VVee vvill for the while doe you the favour as to imagine you to stand iust vnder the Aequinoctial But the coÌ„mon bragge which is agreed vpoÌ„ amoÌ„g you is that you have large harvests in the new world Bristowe u Motiv 2â—… saith that the Church hath in those partes vvonne more incomparably then iâ—… hath lost by Heretikes in these our partes Stapleton goeth as farre beyond him as hee goeth beyond the truth Thus then hee talketh 〈◊〉 Though in very deede through the A Discourse vpoÌ„ the doctrin of the Protestantes pernicious persuasions of that wedded Frier certaine places and couers of Christendome have svvarved from the Catholike Church and authority of the Apostolike Seâ—… in these North partes of the world yet it hath thousands folde more beene enlarged in the West parts and the new lands found out by Spanyards and Portingales in these late yeeres as the letters of the Iesuites directed from those countries into these partes doe evidently and Miraculouslie declare Hee who wrote the Apologie of the Seminaries harpeth vpon this string but with a lower tone z Chap. 6. The Iesuites in the East Indies have brought countries which were very barbarous and the most potent Princes of them togither vvith the provinces and people subiect vnto them to the Catholike Romans faith y Con. Davidem Chytraeum Possevinus your great States-man proclaimeth that in these laÌ„ds lately discovered it is a miracle of al miracles to see how many be coÌ„ verted meÌ„ going through so many seas to do it then without weapoÌ„ or force alluring theÌ„ to Christ. But al these great clamors not withstanding they who will read either your own writers or other know how it standeth wel enough Then briefly to open the truth In the yeare Pet. Mar. Decad. 1. 1. 1492 ColuÌ„bus the Genoway with some Spanyards at the charge of Ferdinandus Elizabeth king and Queene of Castile did faile so far to the West that he came to the Ilands since called Cuba Hispaniola The matter vvhich there they aimed at was store of gold and silver which the couÌ„try did yeeld afterward they did light also there-about on aboundance of pearle all which were sweet baites for the greedy needy Spanyards The fame of this stirred vp both the Princes to send the subiects to goe in huge numbers thither when not longâ—… after the maine lande of America was descryed and after that Peru the South sea the kingdome of Mexico a Benzo in nova novi orbis hâ—stâ—ria li. 1 2. In all these rich Provinces did these Spanyards set footing and finding them litle better then naked men without armour yron or steele having only for their weapons clubs and simple bowes arrowes they without leaue or liking of the inhabitants built at first Castles in divers places afterward at their pleasure townes citties Some of the ancient people there they slew downe in warâ—some other of them they caused to destroy one another either raysing new discords among them or cunningly perpetuating their olde thousands of them did these new commers slay taking them single and alone such as lived they inforced to bee their slaues causing theÌ„ to worke like brute beasts in their mines without any compassion of them where if they were slacke they were chastised with intolerable torture which made many of theÌ„ drown theÌ„selus some others throw theÌ„selus froÌ„ rocks or into the mines yea generally they so
you would haue laid freely at them Dare you strangers and captiues and boyes and vpstart companions set your selfe against a million of wise men Princes and Counselours They should haue had your voice to haue gone to the fiery Furnace Doe you not pity your selfe when you reason in this fashion Among them that be wise pendenda sunt suffragiapetius quà m numeraÌ„da voices are to be weighed rather then to be numbred I can say no more vnto you but that when this is your best Divinity Lorde haue mercy vpon you Saint Austen would haue tolde you for o Epist. 19. all these and aboue all these we haue the Apostle Paule T. HILL NEither may the Protestants now at length glory in their great number as some of them haue done for that their Religion is there in England and in Scotland and some thereof in â—…aland and in the Lowe Countries and in some partes of Germany and a few of them in Fraunce Apol. Eccl. Anglic. for they never yet passed into Asia nor into Africa nor into Greece nor into many places of Europe much lesse into the Indies But indeede if you rightly scanne their doctrine you shall finde that your Religion ProtestaÌ„tine of England is no where in the world else and that English service contained in your booke of Common praier is vnknowne and condemned of all other Nations and people vnder the cope of Heaven So that in very deed the doctrine of your Protestantes is taught or received no vvhere but in England and the Puritant Doctrine of Scotlande the contrariety therof duely considered is no where but in Scotlande the Lutherane Doctrine taught in Denmarke is no where but in Denmarke and in a few places of Germany the Libertine doctrine taught in the Low Countries is no â—…here but in the Low Countries and the like may be said of other sectes G. ABBOT 26 YOV are mis enformed that the Protestants doe glorie in their great number they know that truth is truth be iâ—… in more or few As for M. Iewell whose Apologie you quote in your margent hee hath no such matter Onely where as it is obiected that our Religion overturneth kingdoms and governmentes hee answereth there vnto that there p Apol. Eccl. Anglican doe remaiue in their place and ancient dignitie the Kings of England Denmarke Sweden the Dukes of Saâ—…cony the Cunties Palatine c. This is to answere to an obiection by giving many instances to the contrary and not to glory of any multitude And if any other of our Church do note in breefe that the Gospell hath taken roote in some large nations that is to stop the mouth of the clamorous adversary and to satisfie the weake as also not least of all to praise God who so spreadeth the beames of his compassion but it is not to boast vainely as you ignorantly imagine Yet who doubteth but a good Christian may ioy in his hart exceedingly and thankfully expresse it in his tongue that many who sate in darkenesse may now behold the light and the sheepefold of Christ is more and more filled But if we would be too forward you will plucke vs backe againe Although it be say you in some places of Europe yet in some other it is not As who should say your Popery is generall in all Where I pray you in Greece is your Papistry It is not in Asia and Africa and much lesse in the Indies The East Indies are part of Asia if you could think vpon it By what means your Idolatry came into those Countries I haue shewed before and how plentifully there it is If we would talke idly as you for the most part doe we might say that in every place where the Marchants of Holland trade and haue people residing our religion is accepted But since the English Merchants haue companies houses in Russia in Constantinople in Aleppo in Alexandria sometimes in Barbary in Zacynthus in Venice and Legorne we might say after the fashion of your boasting that our religion is in those parts But we desire to make no more of things then indeede they are Yet we tell you for those remote provinces that as now one hundred and twenty yeeres agone they knewe not one whit of your faith so it may please God before one hundred and twenty yeeres more bee passed if it so seeme good to his most sacred wisedome to plant the truth which we reach in the East Westerne world especially if a passage by the North ende of America or that by Asia beyond Ob may bee opened vvherein our q M. Hacluiâ—… vnges Nation hath much adventured and speng good summes of treasure vvhich also the Hollanders haue done But the issue of this whole matter must bee leste to the divine providence which is to bee magnified therefore if hee adde this blessing to his Church And if he deny it either there or in any other place we must not be caried too farre with griefe or pitty since it doth not please him who is the father of mercie to condescend vnto it Nowe vvhereas you avouch that our doctrine is onelye in England I knovve not vvhither I shoulde put that in your ignoraunces or rather in your malicious cavils Truth it is our common prayer booke is vsed onelye by those who are of Englishe allegeaunce but is there anie pointe of doctrine in it vvherevnto other Churches reformed in Europe doe not condescend The Catechisme of the Councell of Trent doth differ in words from the Catechisme of Canisius and both of them from that of M. Vaux yet you would thinke it a wronge if anye man should tell you that they disagree in pointes of doctrine So the service of the reformed Congregations in Europe as in England Scotland Fraunce Switzerland in the dominion of the Palsgraue in the Regiments and free cities of Germany which are of the Pallsgraues confession as also in a good parte of the low Countries is the same in all pointes of moment not differing one intâ—… their Professions are the same There is no question among these in anie one pointe of religion The Ecclesiasticall policy being different as in some places by Bishops in some other wâ—…thout them doth not alter ought of faith The Apostles in that they were Apostles had a kinde of governement vvhich the Church had not afterward in the very same particular In the auncient Church some cities and Countreyes vvere immediately ruled by a Patriarke Grande Metropolitane some other by an inferiour Bishoppe vvho was subiected to the greater yet they all might agree in the faith The cheefe at Rome immediately is the Pope at Millaine for spirituall thinges the Arch-bishoppe in some places bee but Suffragaines in some other Iurisdictions a Deane or Priour by Privilege hath almost Papall auctoritie vvhich also in times past vvas in the Chauncellours or Vice-chauncellours of our English Vniversities some fewe thinges beeing excepted and reserved Yet will you say that these doe differ in
invincible Navy in the yeare 1588 and after many other renourned prosperities notwithstaÌ„ding the frequent conspiracies of vngodly persons against her by the favour of the Highest vnder the shaddow of whose wings shee was ever safe-garded dyed in peace in a full and glorious age so beloved honoured and esteemed of her subiects as never any Prince more And God to testifie his owne worke left at her death no noted calamity or misery in the kingdome no warres but even Ireland then calmed no famine no apparaÌ„t pestilence no inundation of waters but plenty and a boundance with inexpected tranquillity Yea to the end that he might crowne her with blessings he put vnity agreement into the Nobles Clergy and Commons of the land that readily they submitted them selues to the lawfull royal successour vnder whom we doubt not but to enioy religion and all earthly happinesse Let our Papists weigh whither these things be not wonderfull We in the meane time say They 〈◊〉 are the Lordes doing and they are marveilous 〈◊〉 Ps. 118 23 â—…n our eies THE SEVENTH REASON Visions and the gift of Prophecie T. HILL AS true Miracles never were wrought but by them who were of the true Church so heavenly Visions and the gift of Prophecte vvere never founde to bee but in the same And therefore the holy Apostle amonge other things which hee vseth to commende his doctrine and himselfe to the Corinthians against Heretikes and false Apostles hee bringeth in this as one saying Now will I come to the Visions 2 Cor 12 and Revelations of our Lord c. And Saint Peter alleageth 2 Pet 1 for consfirmation of his preaching the transfiguration of our Lords in the mounte vvhich hee savve and calleth it a Uision hee had a Uision of Matth 17 Act 10 11 asheete vvith all kindes of beastes in it vvhen hee vvas to deale vvith the Gentiles And for the trueth of Religion and confirmation of that which they did Act. 2 Hee alleadgeth the Prophecie of Iocl who saith amongst other things your young men shall see Visions and to bee Ioel cap 2 breefe of this sporte is the vvhose booke of the Apocalyps So that to see these kinde of heavenlee Uisions and thereby to foretell things most certainly is only amongst them who are of the true Church G. ABBOT WHen I haue breefly told you that almost every worde of the greatest part of this Chapter is taken from the seaventh of your Maister 〈◊〉 Bristowes Motiues perhaps 〈◊〉 Bristowe Motiv 7 some friend of yours will aske mee when my purpose is to cease from remeÌ„bring you of this matter since so oft I sing the same song My answere will be that when you leaue to steale out of other mens writings I shall leaue to tell you of the same but that I feare will not be till we come to the ende of your little booke Such a gift you haue to continue that which you haue well begunne Howe and by what meanes miracles to false and evill endes and yet themselues thinges miraculously done haue and may be by Sathan Antichrist and their followers brought about I haue shewed before And it is as certaine that Visions which to doating and deceived folks seeme heavenly and so also supposed or pretended Prophecies are of the same nature in our daies do proceede from the same roote are applyed to build vp falshood and vntruth in the selfe same sort Neither are these late forgeries or illusions any thing helped by those divine Revelations which formerly haue beene made since they these haue no affinitye or coherence the one vvith the other That S. b 2. Cor. 12 1 Paule to stoppe the mouthes of the false Apostles who depressed his authoritie did mention a Vision of his owne is a matter agreed vpon as also that S. c 2 Pet 1 17 Peter to testifie that what hee preached concerning Christes glorie was true mentioneth the transfiguration of his maister in the mount to the which he was an eie-witnesse And this by Iesus himselfe was teermed a d Math 17 9 Vision Neither is it to bee doubted but at the same time vvhen the same Peter was to bee instructed that Gods pleasure vvas to giue the Gentiles accesse into the Church as well as the Iewes he had from heaven an apparition of a e Act. 10 11 13. sheete full of all beastes cleane and vncleane and a voice added therevnto Kill and eate But we would gladly learne what it is that you can conclude out of these since the persons the times the vse is now most differeÌ„t you having no affinity nor keeping any quarter with the Apostles no not retaining so much interest in them as the Saracens have in Abraham from whome by the f Sozom. 6 38. bond-woman they are lineally descended And yet it would bee helde but a ridiculous dispute for one of theÌ„ to say that AbrahaÌ„ was familiarly acquainted with God pleased him had many blessings favours froÌ„ him therfore they the Hagarenes and Mahumetanes are in the same grace with the Lord may plead any favours or privilege froÌ„ him Touching that place of the Prophet g Ioel. 2 28 Ioel which you cite it hath relatioÌ„ to the sensible seÌ„ding down of the gifts of the holy Ghost which was fulfilled soone after Christes ascension And this was intimated again by our Saviour himselfe in other words He 〈◊〉 that beleeveth in me saith the Scripture out of his body shall flovve rivers of water of life vnto which the Evangelist immediately subioyneth 〈◊〉 Ioh 7 38. This spake he of the spirit which they that beleived on him shold receive for the holy Ghost was not â—…et giveÌ„ because that Iesus was not yet glorified The Prophet Ioel theÌ„ foretelleth that when Christ had appeered there shold be visible most admirable tokeÌ„s of Gods power loue to his Church in so much that many of all ages sexes first among the Iewes afterward by some farther coÌ„municating of it among the GeÌ„tiles shold speake with straÌ„g toÌ„gues shold see visioÌ„i prophecy And that the words of Ioel have reference to this nothing else S. Peter himselfe shal be witnes whose speech this is i Act. 2. 16 These are not drunken as you suppose since it is but the third houre of the day but this is that vvhich was spoken by the Prophet Ioel And it shall be in the last daies saith God I wil powre out of my spirit vpon all flesh your sonnes your daughters shall prophecy your younge men shall see visions your olde men shall dreame dreames And to shew that this is appropriated to that which theÌ„ quickly after was shewed by the Apostles I meane the speaking with strang toÌ„gues the imparting of that gift to other by theÌ„ as the instrumeÌ„ts of God the same Peter hath these words afterwards Since k 33. then that Christ hath received of
that they alone can so oft see the Devill And they alone can haue the Devils in them which finde worke for the exorcists He is simple that seeth not that this was a devise to driue men froÌ„ the participation of the Lords supper A third he hath that a great many CoÌ„munion bookes lying in a sicke mans chamber were caught vp by a fire which seemed to haue many hands so were throwne into a flame He who wil so lightly bestow so much of his beleife as to credit this may demurre vpoÌ„ this actioÌ„ whither it were not the Devils owne deed who caÌ„not away with the Communion booke therfore burneth it not because it is bad but because it is against him so have his disciples doÌ„e And the like may be expouÌ„ded of the black doge before not enduring that the people shold participate of those holy misteries It might also be asked what so many CoÌ„munioÌ„ books did in one ChaÌ„ber NotwithstaÌ„ding we rather hold al these things to be humane fictions or if they were done to be diabolical illusions 6 BVT heere to come neerer the state of this wise Reason It is most true that there was a time when visions dreames Prophecies were of good force God vsing to do by his children as Iob speaketh that is talketh to theÌ„ in s Iob. 33. 15. dreams visioÌ„s of the night wheÌ„ sleepe falleth vpoÌ„ theÌ„ they sleepe vpoÌ„ their beds So s Gâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Abimilech was warned in a dreame to abstaine froÌ„ Sara t Cap 28 â—…2 lacob had his dreame of the ladder u 1 Reg 3. 5 SalomoÌ„ was willed in a dreame to aske what he wold And of this sort we find very many other which advertised meÌ„ of the Lords special wil in many particulars In like maÌ„ner there is warraÌ„t for diverse visioÌ„s as wheÌ„ God coÌ„forted 〈◊〉 Iacob in a VisioÌ„ when he appeered to 〈◊〉 Gen. 46 3 x 1 Sam 3â—… 1 Samuel professing what iudgmeÌ„t he would bring vpoÌ„ the house of â—…li So in the new TestameÌ„t y Act 1 3 Cornelius z Cap. 9. 121 Ananias had their visioÌ„s And for Prophecying Moses all other who were so inspired froÌ„ the Lord do sufficieÌ„tly speake And yet even in those daies we find that it was not safe to trust al things which came in the nâ—…me of prophecyings visions dreames For there were false Prophets as is plaine by a 1. Reg 22 11. Zidkiah many more And Ieremy schooleth the people b Ier. 27. 9 Heare not your Prophets nor your soâ—…thsayers nor your dreamers who say vnto you thus Yee shall not serve the King of Babel for they prophecy a lie vnto you And in another place he saith of other c Cap â—…3 10. â—…5 They speake the visioÌ„ of their own hart not out of the mouth of the Lord. And afterward God saith I have heard what the Prophets said that prophecy lies in my name saying I have dreamed I haue dreamed This is theÌ„ a daÌ„gerous thing for credulous people to be deceived by vnlesse they chaÌ„ge their iudgmeÌ„t bee very wary God therefore addeth farther d Vers. 28. The Prophet that hath a dreame let him tell a dreame he that hath my word let him speake my word faithfully It is then Gods word faithfully looked into which must be the directioÌ„ to the speaker the hearer Else how soone might meÌ„ be deceived That e 1 Reg. 13. 9 18. Prophet of the Lord may veryfie this who himselfe was quickly beguiled through credulity at the instance of another Prophet f Nehem. 6â— 10. perswading him directly against Gods wil revealed vnto him NotwithstaÌ„ding Nehemiah being wiser wheÌ„ he might haue bin so catched by Shemiah preteÌ„ding a revelation did not harken vnto him but looked to that duty which was coÌ„mauÌ„ded him And that was it wherin mens spirit of discretioÌ„ did coÌ„sist in those daies to look whether they furthered the Lords service or no when they spake whether other approved circumstances did concurre for in other general matters the good the bad might externally seeme to ioine The place of g Deuter. 13. 1 Deuteronomy is in this behalfe worth the coÌ„sidering where it is saide that a Prophet may come or a dreamer of dreames and may give a signe or a wonder that also may come to passe yet he may be a deceaver drawing to false Gods and is not to be followed Then eveÌ„ in those times visions dreames prophecyings taken in themselves were but tickle things to rest on neither had they any sure grouÌ„d but from the word by which they were to be tried That without them was forcible they disagreeing from it were nothing 7 But now since that Christ is come we are taught in no sort to depeÌ„d vpoÌ„ theÌ„ for the doctrin is general coÌ„cerning al things h Hebr. 1. 1â— At sundry times in diverse maÌ„ners God spake in the old time to our fathers by the Prophets In these last daies he hath spoken vnto vs by his sonne which Antithesis doth intend that miracles al means saving the word of Christ are now cut off froÌ„ resting our vndoubted faith thervpoÌ„ But in special touching visioÌ„s miracles wheÌ„ the i Luc. 16 29. Rich maÌ„ is brought in as desiring that Lazarus might straÌ„gly be sent or appeere as a ghost or in some vision to warne his brethren our Saviour frameth Abrahams answer They haue Moses and the Prophets let them heare them as holding that alone to be sufficient and cutting of all other points from being matters of certainety where-on to rest our faith and soules And yet as it was said of Miracles before we deny not but that after the asceÌ„sion of Christ the death of the Apostles some seldom times visions might be shewed to some of the elect for their privat instructioÌ„ satisfactioÌ„ or comfort as k Eus. Eccl. Histor 4. 14 Polycarpus did dreame that he shold be burnt for Christ l Lib. 5 27 Natalius by stripes giveÌ„ him or seeming to be giveÌ„ him by Angels was revoked froÌ„ heresy to an Orthodoxe opinioÌ„ so was m Hier epist 22 ad Eust Hierom froÌ„ overmuch studying Tully humane learning n Theo 516 Theodosius did dream that he should be Emperour Where obserue we two things first that these visions were touching privat mens maâ—…ere not to teach much lesse to broch any new or vncertain doctrine to the Church for which purpose our Papists do vrge their visions especially to establish Purgatory the appurtenances therevnto Secondly that albeit in some few God did this yet it was not laid downe as a fundameÌ„tal matter that there should alwaies in the Church be such persons neither might any maÌ„ presume to say that continually there should be such a vocatioÌ„â—… neither could any person by an assured faith
fight Then if you had your will touching the authority of these controversed books you could not make one quarter of the gaine by them as you suppose but since they are not of the right stampe we may not allow theÌ„ to you Be the matter in theÌ„ for vs or agaiÌ„st vs we may not authorize those for Authentike Scripture which God hath not so authorized In the 2. of the Machabees there is a place against Limbus PatruÌ„ where one of the seven brethren saith p Cap 7 36 My brethren that haue suffered a little paine are now vnder the divine covenant of everlasting life that is to say at that very time inioying it and in possession of it for if it be vnderstood but of the way thither the mother and brother yet remaining aliue were also vnder that covenant of assured hope but we account not of this testimony neither do wee vrge it because the booke whence it is taken is Apocryphal T. HILL FOr Heretikes ever framed the Bible to their opinions changing wresting paring and somtimes flatly reiecting al which made over-plainly against such Doctrine as they devised and so doe most impudently the Protestants now Wheras the Catholikes ever squared their Doctrine by the line and the levell of the Word of her Spouse and therefore never had cause to reiect the least iote of the holy Bible and at one worde the Catholikes followe the Bible but the Protestantes force the Bible to followe them G. ABBOT 5 WHat heretiks do to the Bible or how they intreat it we respect not neither doth it make ought against vs til you haue first proved vs to be heretiks Nay look you well to it whither you do not seclude vs from being heretiks since we do not change wrest pare the Bible We allow al Scripture to be Scripture we wreÌ„ch nothing we alter nothing but avow that our collections and interpretations are consonant to other places of Gods sacred word and in all points material are to be warranted out of some or many of the ancient fathers of the Primitiue Church which when any of you shall iumpe vpon we never refuse to put in trial with you Now that you Pseudo-Catholiks do that indeed wherwith you wrongfully charge vs how can you deny when you admit for q CoÌ„c Triden Sess 4â— authenticall no copy nor translation of the Scripture but the vulgar Latin which hath diverse flawes and gaps in it much being missing which is in the Originall Hebrew Greek When almost in al your r Vaux Catechi Horae beatissim Virginis Catechismes other books you leaue out the second CoÌ„mandement touching Images as too plainly coÌ„vincing your idolatrous carved painted stuffe in Churches So wheÌ„ in the Eucharist you take the Cup froÌ„ the s CoÌ„c Constat Sess 13 people coÌ„trary to Christs institution the relation of the forme of that Sacrament by S. Paule expouÌ„ding s Mat 26. 27 Drinke you all of this to be meant of the Clergy only how do you wrest and pare As when you say that your Masse is a dayly reall sacrifice wheras the t Heb 7 27 cap 10 18 Author to the Hebrews so copiously disputeth that there is no more sacrifice for fin Briefly you do little better then take away all the Bookes of the Bible when for so many yeares togither you willingly suffred not the laity to looke into them And how do you pervert the Scripture to confirme that abuse as when u In Apolog. Staphilus directly applyeth to that purpose the text u Mat 7 6 Giue not that which is holy vnto dogs so accounting the laity to be no better then dogges and swine Yea your great Rabbins Peter x Lib 3 Distinct 25 Lombard the Master of the Sentences Thomas of y Aquin 2. Aquine can finde so much in that place of Iob z 〈◊〉 art 6. The Oxen were plovving and the Asses were feeding in their places taking the oxen plovving to signifie the Priests reading the Scripture the Asses feeding Iob 1. 14. to be the people not troubling their heads with such matters but contenting themselues to beleeue in grosse as the Church and Cleargy do beleeue Are not these sweet men do they not froÌ„ dogs swine Oxen Asses proue their matters handsomely Thus you square your doctrine by the level of the Babilonish harlot no otherwise folowing the Bible verily as many in LoÌ„don do follow the Law when they go to Westminster after the Iudges who know much law but their followers study vnderstand little of it So you sometimes let the Bible stand in your Libraries or studies before you but you look little in it take very small acquaintance of it when any thing commeth to bee questioned you had leifer be tryed by any thing then that and for traditions you wil striue as for your soule knowing they must do the deed in vpholding your Popery or els al wil to the grouÌ„d for in the Scripture it hath no footing But we contrarywise doe teach our people to cary with them Gods booke to read it and meditate on it to try our teachiÌ„gs therby not to force the exposition thereof to their own humour but to the purpose of the holy Ghost And so I leaue you and this your slaunder 6 Here to proceed a litle farther in the matter of this Motiue we are charged as the Reader doth see to offer iniury to the scriptures in denying those to be Canonicall whoÌ„ the Romanists do grace with that name But what is our fault Is it that we do not allow all that to bee of vndoubted authority which is within the coÌ„mon volumes of the Bible Yea that is it as M. Bristow his fellows belike wold say We answer that if this be it the Church of Rome it selfe is gilty of that crime For are there not 2. books which are coÌ„monly called the 3. 4. of Esdras which theÌ„selues evermore coÌ„prise within their Bibles yet repute not Canonical No better triall of this then by the a Session 4â—… Councell of Trent which reckoning vp the sacred Volumes doeth with those vvhich are not controversed yea with those which are past controversie ioyne Tobias â—…dith Wisdome Ecclesiasticus and the two books of the Machabees but of these of Esdras not a word Heere then by the iudgement of that renoumed Synode which curleth as many as ioine not with it some tractes in the Bible are now as good as leaped out of the Bible This fact of theirs wil warraÌ„t our proceedings since by the same reason wherefore they seclude some may more bee shut out if they do deserue it Gentle Genebrard saw this wel and therfore he was desirous although it were but by the head shoulders to haue pulled in these two bookes againe b Lib. 2 Chron An. 3638. postea He therefore more then once is vehement for them would make
vs belieue that although in the first Synode which long since did canonize the bookes of holy writte they were not admitted yet in a later Synode the Canon was made larger And reasons for this he maketh shew to giue But it is too late Genebrard you come after the faire The Councel which cannot erre hath shut them out of dores the Pope hath ratified their Decree therfore you lose your labour and you are but one man against so many Fathers therfore best pul in your hornes For as with your owne side you are like to gaine nothing so otherwise you wil pul an olde house on your head whē by your example you teach vs that a private man may question yea conclude against that which your Counsels haue determined Where by the way let not the simple and vnlearned Christian wonder that in this best booke the Bible there should be any thing which is not properly a member of it for we therin as also in reading some part of them publikely doe but imitate the custome of the most auncient purest c Zanch. in Observat in cap. 1◅ Confessiō Churches ioyning that with Gods most sacred word which vniversally hath bin ioyned among Christians since almost the eldest times and is not refused by the most reformed Churches at this day but we distinguish these writings from the divine volumes and note them by the name or appellation of Apocripha as hidden in comparison of the bright light of the other which may wel endure the light and sunne-shine And by a little Preface before those doubted bookes as also by the Articles of Religion agreed on in Cōvocation An. 1562. we teach what opinion the Church hath of them that they are not received to be publikely expoūded nor to confirme matters of doctrine but only as they cōsent with the other which are Canonical or onely as the writings of some godly men which may serue to giue light to the history or containe some not vnprofitable instructiōs touching good manners And these things in our Sermōs writings we do fequētly notify So that this indifferent course being held there is no iust cause of offence givē either to the weake beleever or to the malitious clamorous adversory that being done which anciently in the best Christian Churches was done and yet the people be taught but howe and in what sence it is done Nay our Church hath beene so carefull for giving any vvay iust occasion of scandale in this matter that it permitteth the Minister to reade in steede of any of these Apocriphal Chapters other Canonicall lessons vpon the Sun-daies and Holy-daies and therefore much more vpon the working-daies as hee in his wisedome iudgement shal see fit requiring of him prudence discretion in that behalfe Which appeareth in the Second Tome of Homilies set out by publike d An. 1563. authority almost in the beginning of her late Maiesties raigne For there in the e An admonition to al Ministers Ecclesiasticall Preface this advertisement being given to all Ministers For that the LORD doth require of his servant whom bee hath set over his housholde to shevve both faithfulnes and prudence in his office c. some thinges are advised vnto him touching his duty but lastly this is subnected and subioyned And vvhere it may so chaunce some one or other Chapter of the olde Testament to fall in order to bee reade vpon the Sundaies or Holy-daies vvhich vvere better to bee chaunged vvith some other of the New Testament of more edification it shall bee vvell done to spende your time to consider vvell of such Chapters before hand vvhereby your prudence and diligence in your office may appeere so that your people may haue cause to glorifie GOD for you and bee the readier to embrace your labours to your better commendation to the discharge of your consciences and their owne Which pointe being well considered avoideth all blame from the Church of England even in the eyes of them that would seeme most quicke-sighted it being not onely permitted to the Minister but also commended in him if vvisely and quietly hee doe reade Canonicall Scripture vvhere the Apocryphal vppon good iudgement seemeth not so fitte or any Chapter of the Canonicall may bee conceived not to haue in it so much edification before the simple as some other parte of the same Canonical may be thought to haue For the wordes wil very well cary both these 7 VVell then if there bee reasons why the Church of Rome doth shut out from the Canon these bookes of Esdras and yet they are printed and bound vp with all their ordinary Bibles if the same or such like exceptions may bee taken against Iudith Tobias and the rest is there not as great reason that they also should be secluded from the Canonicall albeit they remaine in the volume of the Bible The exceptions against all these controversed writings are many but I will reduce them briefly to these three plaine heads which I meane to touch First the matter of the bookes of Esdras is slight and vaine without maiestie and vnworthy the holy and sacred spirit of God Secondly these tracts are not to be founde in the Canon of the old that is the Iewish Church And thirdly in the computation of Christians they are also reiected If we lay these lines and rules to the rest we shall finde them of very little different quality For first the matter of them is not coherent with the rest of the vndoubted scripture In c Cap 5. 12 Tobias the Angell vtteteth somewhat of himselfe which cannot literally be avoided when he saith to old Tobias I am of the kinredos Azarias and Ananias the great and of thy brethren So it is a narration worthy at the least to be pawsed vpon that the d Cap 6 13 seven husbands of Sara should be killed by an evil spirit the first night of their mariage Of the hart and liver of the fish I haue spoken before Is it not a likely matter that e Cap 8. 9◅ Raguel would make a graue for him whom the day before hee so advisedly tooke for his sonne in law now to bury him before hee was dead They are not matters to bee commended by the penne of the holy Ghost that Iudith should f Iud 10 3 4 dresse and tricke her selfe more then became a matrone that so she might allure Holofernes to wantonnesse that shee g Cap. 12 12 14 18 c 13 1 should make shew as not to deny to lie with him that shee should tell such evident h Ca. 10. 12. 13 vntruthes to his servants at her first taking and to i Ca 11 15 16 himselfe afterward That the Iewes should haue peace so long in her life k Ca. 16. 25. time and a great while after her death is a matter vnprobable since these warres of Holofernes are saide to be made in the time of King l Cap. 2. 1.
and twenty bookes equal in nuÌ„ber to the Hebrew letters For among the Hebrewes the elemeÌ„ts of the letters are so many But besides these there be yet of the same old TestameÌ„t other books not Canonical which are read only to the Catechumeus Heere is a most manifest distinction betweene the Canonical and the Apocryphall and a signification that these inferiour volumes were only read to such as were novices in the faith but they were not accounted authentical vnquestionable Next I ioyne Epiphanius who lived in Cyprus he t Haetes 8 rehearseth for Canonical Scriptures of the old Testament the Iewes bookes the other not admitted by them he expungeth for Apocryphal And in a u Haeres 76 second place reckoning vp al the divine writings he shutteth out these Apocryphal fellows only after al the volumes of the old new TestameÌ„t rehearsed he nameth also the Wisedoms of SalomoÌ„ of the sonne of Sirach He nameth theÌ„ I say but after al the right ones yet least any man should take advaÌ„tage of the mencioning of those two heare him else-where u De mensuris poÌ„deribus Among the Hebrews there are two and twenty bookes For thâ—…se two bookes written in verse The Wisedome of Salomon which is called Panaretus of all kinde of vertue and the Wisedome of Iesus the sonne of Syrach the nephew of that Iesus vvho wrote that Wisedome in Hebrew so that his nephew interpreting it did vvrite it in Greeke are profitable and commâ—…dious but are not put into the number of those vvhich are received How corruptly theÌ„ doth x De verbo Dei l. 1 14 Bellarmine deale who citeth Epiphanius as an allower of these two bookes and denieth that hee spake against them otherwise then according to the opinion iudgement of the Iewes But infinite such base shiftes are to bee found in that Cardinall In the meane time we see that thus Epiphanius who was very wel skilled in the Hebrew keepeth close both with the Iewish Canon and the iudgement of the Easterne Church 13 Gregory Nazianzen hath a y De veris libris Scriptur little treatise in verse of purpose made to shew what are the books of the old new TestameÌ„t inspired froÌ„ God He in the old reckoneth vp two twenty books after the Iewish fashioÌ„ so oft aboue meÌ„tioned no more There he putteth al these whoÌ„ we acknowledge vouchsafeth not so much as to name Tobias or Iudith or any one of those whoÌ„ we seclude And so doth he againe z De recta educatione ad Selencum To all these so famous learned men of the East Greeke Church wil I adde for the conclusion the Councel of Laodicea which in the last a Canon 59 Canon recapitulateth all the Canonicall bookes of the old Testament but hath not one of those whom the Romanists vvould gladly thrust vpon vs. Nowe is it not a greate sinne thinke you for vs to ioyne in iudgement vvith so many learned and holie men with all the good and religious Hebrews who were before the time of Christ withal the Eastern Church without impeachment for ought that I can truely find Are not we worthy to be reviled and revelled at as renters tearers and clippers of the sacred Bible I doe marvaile why we should be Heretikes for not admitting of these Apocryphals since so many Fathers and reverend Doctors of the Primitiue Church did the same that wee do and yet heretiks they are none Yea but the Romanists doe loue to be tried by themselues And great reason The Westerne Churches they will say haue ever beene of another minde Wel yet here is but one against two and then by S. Austens rule before named the matter should go on our side But what if we find in the Latin Church as much against it as for it Are not our popish people in a prety case for railing vpon vs as if we were manglers deâ—…uÌ„catours of the Bible Hilary was a Bishop of FraÌ„ce and b Prolog su per 〈◊〉 he saith that there bee two and twenty bookes of the olde scripture See his own opinion consonant with that of the Greekish and Iewish Church vnto which number saith hee some doe adde Tobias and Iudith and so make foure and twenty Marke that they be but some who do adde more and these doe adde but two so that the Machabees and the rest are vndoubtedly gone in his iudgement nay I may say in his minde these two also But if any man be in this cause to be heard it is Hierome whom Lodovicus Vives some-where did truely call miraculum orbis the miracle of the worlde Hee lived a good while at Rome and thought highly of that Church and therefore would not hastily break from any thing vvhich generally or vvith good ground was there received Hee travailed into Palestina and there spent much of his time and by longe conference vvith a Ievve and other his extreame labour attained to the exact knovveledge of the Hebrevve tongue and there-vpon as some thinke translated the vvhole Bible into Latin as others suppose reformed and castigated that version vvhich is called the Vulgar and is now only currant among the Papists Also hee made those learned Commentaries on the Prophets which labour may truly be said to be the glory and beauty of all his vvorkes vvhich yet otherwise are renoumed sufficiently Then if any man bee to be heard in this Argument it is this Hierome and that deservedly Hee then speaking of Iudith bestovveth this ierke on it c Epist 10 UUee doe reade in Iudith notvvithstanding of it please any man to receiue that booke But aftervvarde hee goeth more generally to vvorke and d Epist â—…06 sheweth which are the Canonicall bookes even those whome vvee holde for Canonicall and vvhich are Apocryphall even the very same that wee reckon for Apocryphall Neither hath hee yet done but continuing in the same iudgement he sheweth how and in what manner the Church readeth and accepteth those inferiour bookes e Epist 115. As therefore the Church indeed doth read the bookes of Iudith of Tobias and the Machabees but doth not receiue them among the Canonical scriptures so it may read also these two volumes that is Ecclesiasticus and the booke of Wisdome to the edification of the people not to confirme the authority of Ecclesiasticall doctrines What would he haue said thinke you if he had seene our Papists bring these bookes as the chiefe pillers of praier for the dead and intercession of Saints and other such like Apocryphal trumpery 14 And that there were more learned men of the Westerne Church in the same minde with Hierome wee appeale to that treatise on the Creede of the Apostles vvhich some suppose to haue beene written by Cyprian and for that cause it is found among his workes but more generally it is thought to be of Ruffiuus his doing who very well might speake for the evidency
saiththat by Martin the 5. it was ratified But he extenuateth that of Basil and saith that by Nicolas the 5. it was approved in those things which beloÌ„g ad ciÌ„sur as causas boneficiales c Vt. supra Sic Bellar. de Concil lib 〈◊〉 cap 7 Possevinus like a Iesuit who must stick close to the Pope saith that indeed that of Censures of Benefices was allowed by Nicolas the 5. but the rest was al refused in the CouÌ„cel at Laterane by Leo the 10. And there he telleth vs that such part of the CouÌ„cel of CoÌ„staÌ„ce as did set the CouÌ„cel aboue the Pope was caslated cashiered but that which was done against Wiclef and Hus was ratified before by Pope Martin Is not your provorb here true So many meÌ„ so manie minds that faith giveÌ„ to I. Hus may be brokeÌ„ as being to an heretik shal staÌ„d for good doctrin but the allowaÌ„ce of the d Cochâ—… in Hist Hussit l. 7. Eucharist in both kinds made to the Hussits by y e deputies of the couÌ„cel of Basil the yeelding to the other 3. articles is frustrated And it wil go hard with the Vir. Mary also who there was quit of being conc Basil Sess 36. coÌ„ceived in Original sin whervpoÌ„ dependeth the feast of the coÌ„cepâ—… of our Lady as you cal it wherof what the FraÌ„ciscane Friers will thinke I leane to your consideration By this men may see how wise the Pope is who will surely liue without his damme if we will let him alone when albeit all the Prelates of Christendome come togither and determine that which is good for the regiment of the Church yet if it touch the Pope he will stande to nothing Nay if Martin say yea confirme it Leo comming after will say No and vndoe it So that let the Councel pray and talke what they wil of the holy Ghost being among them if the Popes holy spirit do not agree with theirs their holy Ghost is nothing Somewhat it was that Pope f Platin ain Faschal 2 Paschall did put on a girdle whence 7. keyes and 7. seales did hang that he might advertise men that according to the seven fold graces of the holy Spirit he had power to close and seale and open and shut the holie Churches over whom by Gods appointment he was ruler That you must thinke to be all the world and by a consequent the generallest Councell Open your eies Papists and see whither that these doctrines be not the mockery of all religion You were as good take a compendious course and say plainely that the Pope may doe what he list as talke of a Councell and trouble a greate many meÌ„ about nothing then the resolutioÌ„ must be with g Centu. 16 in An. 1518 Silvester Prierias that the Popes authority is farre before the CouÌ„cels yea that the force of the sacred Scripture doth depend vpon the authority of the Pope or with h Ibidem Caietane the Cardinall who in a Conference with Luther at Auspurge did directly preferre the power of the Pope before al Scriptures and Councels which Luther good man would not beleeue I pray you gentle Doctor suffer your selfe to be coniured so farre as on your honesty to tell me whither you or we do attribute most to a Councel when we teach that many comming togither in the feare of God and sincerely vsing the best meanes that they possibly can and beeing directed by Gods spirit word may conclude that which must stand good and you say that be they never so many so learned so holy do they what they wil yet if the Pope like not of it he will not like any thing that shall binde him to any goodnes it is not al worth a straw 10 I cannot here omit that the milke which you gaue in the beginning of this Chapter is nowe cast downe by your owne heele I coÌ„mended you too soone A black More cannot change his skinne and you will to your owne biace Here the Councels were not only allowed and confirmed by one and the selfe same authority and this you meane to be your Popes but they are gathered also The impudencie of this Proposition which in a worde you thinke to steale away with I haue shewed before The Bishoppe of Rome durst neither for his head nor soule haue saide such a word in the time of the Primitiue Church He should haue been most arrogant before God and a rancke traytour to the Emperor his best master if he had assumed that vnto him I helped you even now with a place out of Socrates let mee now quit that with another Thus then he saith i Soc in pro aemio lib. 5. I haue everywhere in my storie made mention of the Emperours becacause since that time that they began to be Christians the businesse of the Church did seeme to depende vpon thâ—…â—…cke yâ—… and the greatest Councels were by their sentence or order called together and yet are so called Alas there was no token of the prety Popes supreame authority in coÌ„vocating such Occumenicall assemblies till almost a thousande yeares after Christ. Afterwarde when the Pope had got the head he began to bee a little bold but his Dictates were only attended in such places of the West as over which he had vsurped a spirituall dominion But the Greeke and Easterne Church tooke no notice of those assemblies more then of factious and partiall Conventicles which is the true cause that at the Councell of Florence which was cunningly got togither by Eugenius the 4. to toppe that of k Coch hist. Huss lib. 9. Basile held at the same time and which was assembled before by his owne authority but afterward thwatted some of his designes the Greekes did take no notice of any of the Synodes at Laterane Lions or Vienna where their ancestours before had not beene but only they tooke knowledge of such as whither the Greekes their predecessours had freely gone And therefore as l Li. 4. Chr. Genebrarde saith they who came to the meeting at FloreÌ„ce count that the eighth Synode which is to be vnderstood if they hold it for a Synode at all And in the m Scss. 5. 6. Councell of Florence it selfe the seconde helde before at Nice was then called by the Greekes the last Generall Councell and speciall exception was taken to that which is commonlye called the eighth Generall CouÌ„cel albeit it was held at CoÌ„staÌ„tinople they saying first that it never was at all received and secondly that afterward it was formerly abrogated For in as much as it had condemned Phoâ—ius Patriarke of Constantinople his successour Iohn called another Synode and antiquated the former Marke here that the Patriarke of the Greeke Church thinketh that he hath power to assemble Councels directly opposite to the proceedings of the Romish Bishop and that he challengeth to himselfe authoritie to dissolue and annullate that which he supposeth the Western Patriarke with
1 Decret Distinct 4. 5. Gratian as late as hee vvrote vvhich is about foure hundred yeeres since vvas contented to cite that Decree of Telesphorus as if it might haue his vse in our daies either to know it or to keepe it 15 Nowe did those vvho came after like of this supposed ordinaunce of that Romane Arch-bishoppe No such matter For concerning the length of time the Councell of Orleans did take order by an expresse Canon o Concil Aurelian Canon 20 This is decreed for all Priests that before the solemnity of Easter not Quinquagesima but Quadragesima shall bee helde Thus the time of the Clergyes Lent was abridged That the time of fiftye daies was in vse before it may appeere by Saint p Serm de Eb◅tate Basile mentioning that the fast of Lent vvas for seven vveekes VVhere by the vvay this may bee noted that these vvoordes crosse that other speech cited by me before touching the fast onely of five daies and therefore one of the two Sermons may goe for a counterfeite Touching fasting on the Sundaye another Pope not long after is brought in to correct that And this is q Decret Me◅chad Melchiades who in his Decretal Epistle is thus sette downe to write The fast then of the Lordes daye and of Thursdaye no man must celebrate that there may bee a true and vnfained difference betvveene the fast of the Christians and the Gentiles of these vvho doe beleeve truely and of Infidels and Heretikes Thus the Sundaye is leapte out of Lent But heere is another trouble vvithall for by this Decree it hath taken away the Thursday also and so the dayes of Lente are shrewdely shrunke In this distraction was the olde Church about this fast no man almost being able distinctly to tell vvhat to make of it for the number of the dayes They vvho harkened to Telesphorus had a Quinquagesima for a Quadragesima fiftye or at least forty and nine dayes for fortye They vvho beganne at Quadragesima Sunday and kepte all till Easter had fortye and two daies to their Lente and so as r Vbi supra Polidore hath for a good while it was kepte They vvho began at Quadragesima and slipte out the Sundayes had but thirty and sixe daies to vvhich Aquinas alludeth as before is signified And if after Melchiades they vvoulde cull out Thursdaies too the fortye vvoulde bee but thirtye Heere then at last to mende all and to strike the finall stroke commeth Gregory the Greate about sixe hundred yeeres after CHRIST and because hee vvill have forty daies and yet the Sundayes too put out of question to bee no fasting daies hee added s Poli. Virg vt supra foure daies more to Lent that is to saye those which are before the Sunday tearmed Quadragesima beginning Lent on that VVednesday vvhich for the solemnity of ashes thē appointed by him to be vsed is called Ashe-vvednesdey from vvhich time vntill Easter-day if the Sundaies bee quite exempted from the number there may bee reckoned fortye dayes And that in Gregories time the Sundayes were so shut out appeereth partely by that of himselfe testifying that s Homil. 16 in 40 Homil they did not celebrate fast on the LORDS daye in the Lente So that vvee may saye of this Lent as it vvas saide of Rome t Virgil Aeneid ◠Tantae molis erat Romanam condere gentem And yet there bee in England persons Popishly affected vvho if they bee questioned vvithall are not quite resolved in the pointe whether the first foure daies after Shrovetide bee properly of Lent or no vvhether that bee but a preparing and clensing vveeke and vvhether good-Fridaye as it is called and Easter Even bee to bee solemnized as a parte of a Lenten fast or for some other reason and so consequentlye vvhether the Sundaies bee not to bee fasted as naturall members and a true portion of the forty daies or no and if they bee not to bee so fasted then by what rule a man may not eate flesh vpon them Thus is Popery tyed togither with points When therefore you right learned M. Doctour doe so clerke-like tell vs that in the daies of Saint Basile Saint Gregory Nazianzene Saint Leo S. Chrysostome Lent and other fasting daies were vsed as they are nowe in the Catholike Church are you not ashamed of your selfe and do you not condemne either your owne ignorance for writing you knowe not what or audaciousnesse for assevering so earnestly that which is so grossely false But you doe well to vphold Popery by that meanes the doctrine of Antichrist and Sathan by all kinde of lyes If you cannot blush for your selfe yet all modest Papists may blush for you to find in what sort such companions as you are make no conscience to say ought in that which they hold to be their religion I haue taken a little paines to instruct you concerning the first ancient and most different observation of Lent and I let you farther know that for vniformity with other Christian Churches and conformity to that vvhich we receiued from those who so long agone went before vs wee keepe Lent not superstitiously as you and yours doe but according to the laws of our most Christian Magistrats who cōmande an abstinence from flesh not for any sanctity which is in such forbearing but for other wise and civill reasons And as herein our law alloweth a toleration to such as by necessity of sicknesse or otherwise are enforced to feed on flesh so it convinceth all such as wilfully or carelessely doe transgresse without any other reason saving their owne greedy appetite So that wee accounte such men offendours before God albeit not simply and immediately for the eating of Gods creatures yet consequentlye for dis-obeying the Edicts of godly Princes to whom they are to yeeld obsequiousnes and that for u Rom 13 5 conscience sake In this therfore you very discreetly accuse vs of you cannot tell what as you doe in that also which now followeth T. HILL AND they who be given to Lust to Gluttony to Ambition to Covetousnesse and doe teach such doctrine as necessarily bringeth foorth such fruites must needes contemne S. Basile S. Chrysostome S. Hierome and S. Austen who haue written so excellently of the Order Rule and Vertues of Monkes G. ABBOT 16 HEre now followeth a rable of wicked slaunders to which you are so inured that you bee not your selfe vnlesse almost in every leafe you plentifully powre them out You charge vs here with many sinnes and truth it is that in our Realme there are too many as there will ever bee in the militant Church But yet it is easie to bee iustified that the Gospell hath so farre imprinted the feare of God in some the good laws established the feare of man in other that no Popish Realme nor Countrey may for moral civill behaviour bee compared to England Those brutish beastly sensuall sins which are commonly winked at in Italy and
English Papist to shew out of the Fathers of the first sixe hundred yeeres diverse pointes of Popery as their private Masse or that the cōmuniō was administred but in one kind or that publike praiers were saide in a language not vnderstood or that the Pope was called the vniversal Bishop or the head of the church or that mē were taught this faith that the body of Christ was contained in the Sacrament substantially really corporally carnally or that Christes body was at once in a thousand places or that there was elevatiō adoratiō of the Eucharist diverse such other matters which the Bishop did constantly deny not to be knowen or taught in those times of the first Church The substance of this h An. 1560 Sermon made at Paules Crosse did D. Humfrey rehearse writing the life of the saide M. Iewel and afterward interserting his ovvne iudgement concerning many matters in difference hee groweth to this head that the onely exacte way of reformation of abuses of determination of truth is the vvorde of GOD that it alone is to bee made the iudge Vppon vvhich insisting hee inferreth that therefore Maister Iewell gaue too much and yeelded to the Papistes more then equity and was too iniurious to himselfe when hee tooke not the surer easier shorter course of triall by the Scriptures alone but gaue larger scope of expatiating into the Councels Fathers But most absurdly is your Popish conclusion gathered out of this that therfore D. Humfrey knew or confessed that the Fathers of the Primitiue Church were against vs and him You should rather haue inferred thus much that D. Humfrey thought that M. Iewell had a sure matter in hand when needing to referre all but to the Scriptures he appealed also to the Fathers that both by the witnesse of God and man he might avouch his assertions In case of triall for land we know that authentical writings and evidences are the best and most absolute meanes of deciding right but if he who oweth and possesseth the writings knowing the integritie of his cause shall not refuse also to haue his quarrell tried by the testimonies of indifferēt mē in the coūtrey he hath departed so much from his owne right and done more then he need to do If then his friend shoulde say that therein hee hath yeelded to more then meete and did himselfe a wrong by it by yeelding his adversary many exceptions wheras he might haue tyed him onely to one should not a stander by make an absurd collectiō if he should gather vpon this that the litigants friend savv well that the witnesse of the Countrey would goe against him And especially when he whom it most concerneth shall by the testimony of those to whom he appealed make good all his asseverations This was the Bishops case and no otherwise then thus was it reported by the Venerable Doctour And albeit this may appeare to bee thus to every one who will read the narration yet because Bristow Campian and you take it all one from another and other may yet take it farther your people be still abused as if so learned a man as D. Humfrey had both disliked M. Iewels words and given sentence touching the Fathers against vs for the farther satisfaction of the Reader I desire these thinges to be marked First that Doctour Humfrey in that booke concerning M. Iewell as also in his i Secund pars Iesuitis other against Campian doth frequently cite the old Fathers for vs in all questions of difference that occurre Ergo he doth not thinke that the Doctors are all on the Papists side and not on the Protestants Secondly that in'all his Lectures Disputations and Sermons he was most copious in citing and alleaging the ol◅ Fathers to confirme our doctrine and to enervate Papistry as not only we may remember who often heard him but divers of our Fugitiues now beyond the Seas who were of his time in this Vniversity Thirdly to this particular that in the very k Fol. 124 place where he speaketh of the Bishops challenge he putteth these wordes before And here is necessarily to be repeated that Protestation or denunciation which was heard out of this place of Paules Crosse which our adversaries doe calumniate to bee vaine and frivolow which notwithstanding they will not deny to be true who are of the better sort of wit and of more excellent learning Can a man speake plainer then the Doctour doth here iustifying that to be true which the Bishop said and calling the adversaries exception to the Challenge a calumniation Fourthly that in the l Fol. 212 place where he saith that M. Iewell yeelded too much when he went to farther triall then the Bible he subioineth this Which he did not willingly but yet he did it not besides the purpose that he might s◅ay you with the testimonie of your Fathers as with your owne sword He calleth the Fathers yours not because he thought them so to be but as Ironically because you bragge of them as if they vvere yours Thus doeth the vanity of this slaunderous cavill appeare to every one who will not wilfully close his eies against truth then for all this forged obiection the Fathers shall as wel be ours as yours T. HILL ANdyet because they haue found by experience that to teach Doctrine contrary to the anciant Fathers soundeth but badly in the peoples eares in their Sermons they gladly nowe and then alleage the authoritie of some Doctour or Father when they can by any meanes wringe or wrest any p◅ece of a sentence so as it may seeme to make for them And indeed he who alleadgeth the Doctours most is most praised of the audience as you well know which is a pittifull thing in them and ridiculous in the Preacher who cānot but know if he haue read any of them himselfe that the Fathers detest vtterly that Doctrine which he wresteth them to confirme and in the meane time the poore audience thinketh that they were of this new Religion whose simplicity is therein most pitifully abused by the Preacher G. ABBOT 23 YOur hatred to the Gospell maketh you easily giue sinister interpretations to our actions We mencion the Fathers in our Sermons to shew that our expositions of Scripture are not singular and m 2. Pet. 1. 20 private interpretations but such as were received in the Primitiue Church to convince the Antichristian enemy who like Iack Bragger boasteth of antiquity when in comparison of Gods booke his beliefe is nothing else but noveltie It is not because wee woulde blinde the eies of the people or stoppe their eares since as you say to teach doctrine contrary to those Auncients soundeth ill for if there be iust cause we plainly and evidently shew where we dissent from them Which wee doe being warranted by the word of God which n Galat 1 8 teacheth vs that if an Angell come from heaven and preach otherwise then the Apostles haue preached