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Word A Word B Word C Word D Occurrence Frequency Band MI MI Band Prominent
doctrine_n church_n faith_n fundamental_a 4,207 5 10.5039 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A11532 A conference betvvixt a mother a devout recusant, and her sonne a zealous protestant seeking by humble and dutifull satisfaction to winne her vnto the trueth, and publike worship of god established nowe in England. Gathered by him whose hearts desire is, that all may come to the knowledge of God, and be saued.; Conference betwixt a mother a devout recusant, and her sonne a zealous protestant. Savage, Francis, d. 1638. 1600 (1600) STC 21781; ESTC S106433 62,438 140

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this_o father_n that_o i_o name_v unto_o you_o say_v they_o write_v that_o which_o they_o deliver_v and_o they_o write_v it_o by_o the_o will_n of_o god_n as_o not_o trust_v tradition_n unwritten_a and_o they_o write_v it_o to_o be_v for_o ever_o the_o ground_n of_o our_o faith_n note_v that_o unwritten_a tradition_n may_v not_o be_v the_o ground_n because_o it_o be_v uncertain_a and_o full_a of_o imperfection_n as_o i_o can_v show_v you_o if_o we_o be_v to_o speak_v of_o that_o matter_n therefore_o see_v this_o which_o be_v write_v be_v certain_o and_o assure_o that_o which_o they_o deliver_v and_o we_o hold_v nothing_o but_o that_o which_o be_v agreeable_a to_o this_o which_o be_v write_v you_o see_v it_o be_v most_o plain_a that_o we_o hold_v nothing_o but_o that_o which_o the_o apostle_n themselves_o deliver_v and_o so_o our_o faith_n the_o old_a faith_n which_o be_v from_o the_o beginning_n and_o first_o m._n sure_o if_o you_o hold_v nothing_o but_o that_o which_o be_v write_v it_o be_v certain_a that_o that_o which_o be_v write_v be_v deliver_v by_o the_o apostle_n and_o so_o it_o follow_v that_o you_o hold_v nothing_o but_o that_o which_o be_v deliver_v by_o the_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n and_o therefore_o your_o faith_n old_a indeed_o and_o not_o to_o be_v reject_v and_o for_o tradition_n although_o we_o may_v be_v tell_v that_o this_o and_o that_o be_v deliver_v by_o the_o apostle_n and_o their_o successor_n and_o so_o by_o they_o to_o they_o again_o to_o this_o day_n yet_o i_o must_v needs_o confess_v that_o be_v not_o so_o manifest_a and_o plain_a as_o which_o be_v write_v neither_o do_v it_o yield_v such_o contentment_n to_o my_o conscience_n but_o i_o can_v not_o tell_v what_o to_o say_v it_o be_v a_o sure_a and_o steadfast_a way_n to_o trust_v to_o that_o which_o be_v write_v rather_o than_o to_o that_o which_o be_v report_v and_o yet_o i_o be_o loath_a ●o_o offend_v you_o shall_v give_v i_o leave_v to_o pause_v &_o think_v more_o of_o it_o s._n yea_o dear_a mother_n and_o with_o the_o hart_n of_o a_o dutiful_a child_n i_o say_v the_o father_n of_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n lighten_v the_o eye_n of_o your_o understanding_n in_o all_o thing_n to_o the_o glory_n of_o his_o great_a name_n and_o your_o eternal_a comfort_n but_o be_v you_o assure_v in_o this_o that_o we_o hold_v nothing_o as_o needful_a to_o our_o salvation_n but_o that_o which_o be_v write_v in_o express_a word_n or_o by_o sure_a and_o plain_a collection_n and_o therefore_o make_v the_o consequence_n as_o the_o lord_n shall_v direct_v you_o m._n how_o then_o come_v it_o to_o pass_v that_o your_o religion_n be_v still_o call_v new_a new_a s._n even_o as_o i_o tell_v you_o before_o it_o be_v one_o of_o satan_n trick_n to_o discredit_v truth_n and_o have_v in_o all_o time_n be_v use_v of_o he_o but_o as_o then_o yourself_o collect_v by_o that_o which_o i_o allege_v that_o it_o be_v not_o safe_a to_o be_v lead_v by_o term_n and_o name_n without_o due_a consider_v 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sentence_n be_v give_v of_o condemnation_n that_o s._n audrewe_n shall_v be_v crucify_v for_o teach_v and_o enterprise_v a_o new_a sect_n and_o take_v away_o the_o religion_n of_o their_o god_n shall_v we_o then_o be_v move_v with_o this_o term_n and_o carry_v away_o with_o this_o name_n no_o god_n forbid_v these_o example_n be_v a_o fair_a warning_n for_o we_o to_o take_v heed_n of_o that_o lightness_n and_o rashness_n let_v the_o devil_n rage_n against_o truth_n with_o what_o name_v god_n shall_v suffer_v he_o and_o his_o member_n yet_o this_o shall_v ever_o stand_v that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n be_v elder_a than_o any_o idolatry_n or_o superstition_n of_o the_o gentile_n that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o gospel_n be_v preach_v in_o paradise_n by_o god_n himself_o say_v the_o seed_n of_o the_o woman_n shall_v bruise_v the_o serpent_n head_n that_o the_o writing_n of_o moses_n be_v elder_a the_o any_o writing_n of_o the_o gentile_n the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o apostle_n 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the_o tare_n be_v cast_v into_o the_o good_a field_n shall_v not_o a_o white_a head_n be_v take_v so_o to_o be_v unless_o the_o precise_a beginning_n of_o white_a hair_n be_v know_v a_o chink_n in_o a_o wall_n be_v spy_v and_o mend_v but_o the_o beginning_n usual_o unknown_a when_o the_o scribe_n and_o pharisee_n have_v corrupt_v religion_n what_o book_n do_v we_o read_v to_o be_v write_v against_o they_o how_o able_a be_v joseph_n simeon_n marie_n anna_n etc._n etc._n to_o confute_v they_o falshood_n be_v falsehood_n though_o no_o man_n write_v against_o it_o and_o therefore_o let_v the_o doctrine_n of_o popery_n he_o sift_v whether_o it_o be_v sound_a or_o no_o and_o the_o beginning_n let_v go_v of_o which_o yet_o you_o see_v what_o i_o have_v say_v m._n son_n you_o have_v say_v much_o and_o still_o i_o wish_v that_o one_o of_o we_o will_v hear_v another_o more_o than_o we_o do_v i_o see_v i_o see_v it_o be_v profitable_a god_n have_v command_v mean_n and_o like_v mean_n s._n mother_n many_o a_o good_a man_n and_o woman_n that_o now_o live_v in_o ignorance_n will_v hear_v and_o read_v but_o that_o they_o be_v so_o terrify_v in_o hole_n and_o corner_n by_o false_a charmer_n under_o the_o pain_n of_o excommunication_n not_o to_o do_v it_o nor_o to_o confer_v with_o any_o yea_o they_o be_v often_o snare_v with_o a_o oath_n not_o to_o do_v it_o and_o all_o to_o keep_v they_o in_o darkness_n because_o the_o hood_a hawk_n be_v quiet_a and_o samson_n when_o his_o eye_n be_v out_o may_v be_v mock_v and_o use_v at_o will_n but_o the_o lord_n be_v able_a to_o touch_v his_o people_n heart_n to_o think_v of_o their_o craft_n and_o cast_v from_o they_o such_o deceitful_a work_n which_o i_o beseech_v he_o to_o do_v even_o with_o speed_n for_o the_o impiety_n and_o boldness_n of_o these_o wicked_a charmer_n be_v great_a and_o worthy_o reproove_v by_o s._n hierome_n who_o say_v of_o some_o in_o his_o time_n that_o they_o do_v tantam_fw-la sibi_fw-la assumere_fw-la 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the_o whole_a world_n be_v set_v against_o it_o and_o therefore_o still_o i_o wish_v your_o eye_n bend_v not_o upon_o the_o favour_n of_o the_o world_n for_o that_o be_v common_o against_o the_o good_a and_o for_o the_o bad_a but_o upon_o the_o face_n of_o almighty_a god_n his_o good_a pleasure_n and_o the_o rule_n thereof_o his_o word_n and_o then_o for_o answer_v to_o this_o object_v which_o seem_v so_o strong_a a_o bulwark_n in_o the_o judgement_n of_o many_o papist_n ●●sible_a ●●e_z &_o ●_o church_n 〈◊〉_d nor_o always_o ●●sible_a first_o i_o say_v that_o the_o true_a church_n be_v not_o always_o visible_a in_o the_o world_n as_o they_o take_v visible_a that_o be_v glorious_a in_o credit_n and_o favour_n support_v by_o authority_n of_o worldly_a power_n so_o that_o all_o people_n may_v know_v whether_o to_o resort_v unto_o it_o for_o the_o church_n be_v either_o catholic_a 1_o universal_a or_o particular_a the_o catholic_a or_o universal_a church_n can_v be_v see_v and_o therefore_o 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god_n himself_o be_v hide_v from_o so_o great_a a_o prophet_n why_o may_v we_o not_o think_v that_o in_o the_o many_o mighty_a nation_n of_o christendom_n there_o have_v indeed_o be_v many_o thousand_o more_o belong_v to_o god_n than_o the_o eye_n of_o any_o man_n can_v discern_v s._n augustin_n say_v aliquando_fw-la in_o sola_fw-la domo_fw-la noah_n ecclesia_fw-la erat_fw-la 128._o ●●l_n 128._o in_fw-la solo_fw-la lot_n &_o domo_fw-la eius_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la erat_fw-la in_fw-la solo_fw-la enoch_n ecclesia_fw-la erat_fw-la sometime_o the_o church_n be_v only_o in_o noah_n his_o house_n sometime_o in_o abraham_n alone_o sometime_o in_o lot_n alone_o and_o his_o house_n sometime_o only_o in_o enoch_n therefore_o neither_o a_o particular_a church_n be_v ever_o so_o visible_a as_o papist_n will_v make_v it_o when_o it_o lie_v hide_v sometime_o in_o one_o house_n sometime_o in_o one_o man_n assure_o s._n augustin_n be_v far_o from_o that_o opinion_n when_o he_o write_v thus_o 14._o ●nit_fw-la eccl._n c3_n c._n 16._o asch_fw-mi c._n 14._o look_v therefore_o how_o christ_n be_v know_v when_o he_o be_v upon_o earth_n so_o be_v his_o church_n namely_o by_o the_o word_n not_o by_o the_o outward_a pomp_n and_o show_n she_o can_v be_v hide_v from_o those_o that_o still_o diligent_o seek_v she_o in_o the_o scripture_n where_o only_o i_o say_v again_o the_o certain_a knowledge_n of_o she_o be_v to_o be_v find_v 10._o ●al_a 10._o nevertheless_o she_o be_v compare_v by_o s._n augustin_n and_o many_o more_o to_o the_o moon_n which_o be_v often_o hide_v and_o he_o acknowledge_v that_o she_o may_v be_v so_o secret_a that_o the_o member_n know_v not_o one_o another_o persecution_n have_v be_v so_o great_a that_o the_o world_n see_v not_o for_o a_o long_a time_n together_o such_o a_o outward_a show_n 4._o ●●g_v de_fw-fr bap●●_n count_n do●_n l._n 6._o c._n 4._o as_o popery_n speak_v of_o dioclesian_n and_o maximinian_n boast_v that_o they_o have_v utter_o abolish_v the_o 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inducement_n to_o resort_v unto_o they_o o_o folly_n therefore_o to_o dream_v of_o any_o such_o thing_n how_o differ_v it_o from_o that_o error_n of_o the_o disciple_n expect_v a_o earthly_a kingdom_n of_o their_o master_n and_o worldly_a preferment_n for_o themselves_o that_o vision_n of_o the_o woman_n force_v to_o fly_v into_o the_o wilderness_n to_o avoid_v the_o rage_n of_o antichrist_n 1●_n apoc._n 1●_n do_v it_o not_o convince_v my_o conscience_n that_o the_o church_n be_v hide_v sometime_o from_o man_n eye_n how_o can_v that_o church_n be_v say_v to_o fly_v into_o the_o wilderness_n which_o have_v always_o a_o visible_a face_n a_o visible_a place_n a_o visible_a grace_n and_o glory_n a_o great_a company_n of_o favourer_n might_n power_n authority_n etc._n etc._n be_v not_o christ_n and_o his_o follower_n on_o earth_n the_o church_n have_v they_o any_o such_o show_n nay_o they_o be_v poor_a base_a and_o not_o regard_v in_o comparison_n of_o the_o scribe_n pharisee_n high_a priest_n and_o that_o rabble_n you_o shall_v be_v hate_v of_o all_o man_n for_o my_o sake_n &c_n &c_n say_v our_o saviour_n of_o his_o church_n and_o be_v this_o to_o be_v visible_a ever_o in_o the_o world_n in_o manner_n and_o form_n now_o often_o mention_v who_o see_v not_o that_o it_o be_v far_o from_o it_o and_o thus_o i_o hope_v i_o have_v sufficient_o clear_v this_o first_o point_n that_o the_o church_n be_v not_o always_o visible_a as_o they_o mean_v visible_a which_o may_v suffice_v for_o answer_v to_o this_o vain_a objection_n of_o they_o as_o utter_o overthrow_v the_o ground_n thereof_o yet_o i_o answer_v further_o first_o to_o their_o church_n that_o no_o romish_a catholic_a living_n and_o i_o pray_v you_o consider_v well_o what_o i_o say_v shall_v ever_o be_v able_a to_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v any_o visible_a church_n for_o five_o or_o six_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n which_o maintain_v all_o or_o the_o chief_a point_n of_o popery_n wherein_o they_o differ_v from_o us._n then_o for_o our_o church_n we_o true_o affirm_v that_o it_o be_v long_o before_o luther_n even_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n for_o we_o stand_v upon_o this_o that_o we_o embrace_v and_o profess_v only_o that_o doctrine_n which_o spring_v as_o the_o water_n of_o life_n out_o of_o the_o sanctuary_n that_o be_v out_o of_o the_o writing_n of_o the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n and_o therefore_o that_o our_o church_n do_v not_o differ_v save_o that_o in_o degree_n of_o excellency_n from_o those_o famous_a church_n plant_v and_o water_v by_o the_o apostle_n themselves_o which_o shall_v yet_o more_o manifest_o appear_v by_o the_o doctrine_n itself_o due_o consider_v the_o main_a point_n whereof_o as_o have_v be_v already_o touch_v in_o another_o place_n be_v these_o 1._o concern_v the_o moral_a law_n of_o god_n comprise_v in_o ten_o precept_n that_o it_o be_v the_o perfect_a rule_n of_o righteousness_n wherein_o we_o see_v as_o in_o a_o crystal_n glass_n both_o what_o we_o 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it_o public_o in_o all_o part_n or_o the_o most_o of_o christendom_n since_o the_o happy_a time_n of_o our_o bless_a saviour_n and_o therefore_o that_o our_o church_n have_v always_o be_v a_o visible_a state_n though_o not_o so_o stately_a as_o they_o boast_v of_o they_o to_o their_o own_o shame_n if_o saint_n augustin_n may_v be_v judge_n who_o call_v rome_n in_o regard_n of_o this_o pomp_n and_o pride_n the_o western_a babylon_n the_o second_o babylon_n another_o babylon_n 22.27_o de_fw-fr cinit_fw-la d_o 16._o c._n 17._o l._n 1_o 22.27_o the_o daughter_n of_o the_o former_a babylon_n the_o earthly_a city_n yet_o for_o their_o further_a satisfaction_n i_o further_o ask_v of_o they_o do_v not_o they_o themselves_o say_v they_o believe_v all_o these_o former_a point_n do_v they_o not_o stand_v upon_o it_o that_o they_o have_v ever_o so_o profess_v be_v there_o any_o thing_n in_o there_o religion_n of_o more_o moment_n and_o weight_n or_o any_o other_o part_n of_o doctrine_n beside_o these_o absolute_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n why_o then_o do_v they_o ask_v we_o where_o and_o by_o who_o this_o religion_n of_o we_o be_v profess_v before_o luther_n time_n may_v we_o not_o well_o and_o charitable_o affirm_v that_o it_o be_v profess_v in_o france_n spain_n and_o italy_n yea_o in_o rome_n ever_o since_o first_o rome_n embrace_v the_o gospel_n preach_v by_o the_o apostle_n doubtless_o i_o be_o persuade_v that_o many_o thousand_o even_o now_o in_o these_o country_n where_o the_o pope_n key_n prevail_v do_v true_o hold_v the_o 12._o article_n of_o the_o apostle_n creed_n and_o athanasius_n his_o creed_n which_o he_o call_v the_o catholic_a faith_n with_o all_o the_o other_o point_n of_o doctrine_n set_v down_o before_o which_o if_o they_o do_v hold_v the_o foundation_n though_o they_o build_v upon_o it_o wood_n hay_n 3._o 〈◊〉_d 3._o or_o stubble_n that_o be_v some_o erroneous_a doctrine_n yet_o they_o be_v the_o true_a church_n of_o god_n and_o shall_v be_v save_v a_o pearl_n be_v a_o pearl_n though_o in_o a_o heap_n of_o dust_n wine_n be_v wine_n though_o mingle_v with_o water_n and_o wheat_n be_v wheat_n though_o cover_v with_o much_o chaff_n and_o be_v not_o the_o mystery_n of_o godliness_n whereof_o paul_n speak_v god_n manifest_v in_o the_o flesh_n 3._o 〈◊〉_d 3._o justify_v in_o the_o spirit_n see_v of_o angel_n preach_v unto_o the_o gentile_n believe_v on_o in_o the_o world_n receive_v up_o in_o glory_n still_o the_o mystery_n of_o godliness_n and_o that_o truth_n and_o sure_a foundation_n whereon_o the_o house_n of_o god_n be_v build_v though_o matter_n unsuitable_a unto_o it_o be_v lay_v upon_o it_o yes_o very_o and_o therefore_o see_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v ever_o hold_v the_o mystery_n of_o godliness_n though_o mingle_v with_o many_o dregs_n of_o man_n invention_n i_o doubt_v not_o but_o god_n have_v ever_o have_v a_o people_n among_o they_o and_o a_o true_a church_n more_o than_o 7000._o which_o have_v not_o bow_v the_o knee_n unto_o baal_n what_o we_o be_v to_o think_v of_o their_o leader_n and_o teacher_n which_o indeed_o have_v corrupt_v this_o doctrine_n with_o their_o own_o leaven_n and_o endeavour_v by_o all_o mean_n to_o shut_v up_o and_o obscure_v this_o mystery_n be_v another_o question_n especial_o for_o those_o that_o have_v do_v it_o wilful_o and_o malicious_o and_o die_v in_o that_o malice_n but_o of_o the_o rest_n thus_o we_o judge_v and_o thus_o we_o answer_v that_o so_o many_o as_o true_o hold_v and_o profess_v all_o the_o former_a article_n of_o doctrine_n as_o i_o assure_v myself_o many_o doe_n be_v fellow_n member_n with_o we_o in_o the_o same_o mysticalll_v body_n whereof_o christ_n be_v the_o head_n and_o therefore_o our_o church_n have_v ever_o be_v in_o they_o though_o not_o ever_o so_o manifest_a to_o the_o eye_n of_o the_o world_n as_o it_o be_v for_o the_o space_n of_o the_o first_o five_o hundred_o year_n i_o think_v this_o answer_n shall_v well_o content_v they_o and_o full_o satisfy_v they_o be_v so_o charitable_a towards_o they_o but_o to_o give_v they_o a_o answer_n of_o their_o own_o and_o by_o themselves_o to_o let_v they_o see_v that_o the_o true_a church_n be_v not_o always_o so_o visible_a as_o they_o pretend_v they_o know_v that_o now_o in_o england_n they_o have_v not_o authority_n to_o countenance_v their_o religion_n and_o church_n and_o yet_o they_o say_v that_o they_o have_v a_o church_n amongst_o we_o and_o where_o they_o dare_v well_o say_v it_o they_o be_v bold_a to_o say_v it_o be_v a_o great_a one_o yea_o the_o great_a part_n though_o i_o trust_v they_o shall_v never_o prove_v it_o in_o that_o number_n why_o then_o in_o persecution_n and_o when_o the_o lord_n punish_v the_o unthankfulness_n of_o man_n with_o take_v away_o our_o public_a and_o authorize_v assembly_n may_v not_o we_o as_o well_o have_v a_o church_n hold_v the_o true_a faith_n of_o christ_n according_a to_o his_o word_n as_o they_o now_o a_o flock_n cleave_v to_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n m._n rome_n have_v always_o be_v call_v the_o mother_n church_n and_o they_o do_v join_v with_o that_o church_n rome_n be_v not_o he_o mother_n church_n s._n how_o can_v rome_n be_v the_o mother_n church_n when_o she_o be_v late_a than_o those_o first_o church_n of_o jerusalem_n and_o antioch_n can_v a_o mother_n be_v young_a than_o her_o daughter_n or_o her_o daughter_n elder_a than_o their_o mother_n the_o very_a scripture_n teach_v we_o that_o all_o church_n and_o even_o rome_n itself_o have_v rise_v out_o of_o the_o church_n of_o jerusalem_n fou_n out_o of_o zion_n shall_v his_o law_n come_v and_o the_o word_n from_o jerusalem_n m._n you_o answer_v i_o well_o that_o rome_n can_v be_v the_o mother_n church_n of_o all_o because_o other_o church_n have_v be_v before_o she_o nevertheless_o of_o this_o church_n of_o england_n she_o be_v right_o the_o mother_n because_o this_o land_n receive_v the_o faith_n from_o she_o first_o by_o eleutherius_fw-la the_o pope_n 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