foole will swallow himselfe The beginning of the words of his mouth is foolishnesse and the end of his talke is mischievous madnesse O what a shame in this Prophet that professeth such pietie that the lying spirit should so prevaile in his mouth 1 Reg. 22.22 If it please the courteous Reader to goe along with me in the Examen of it he shall finde him no better in the midst so he shall have him by Gods grace compleatly like to himselfe in Principio Medio Fine 5. The Title or Inscription of his Book is A coole Conference The Author might have said A very hot and coole Conference for it is so hot for the one partie that ye may esteeme it a burning coale or fire of zeale for it howsoever without knowledge igneus est illi vigor terrestris origo But for the other it is so coole yea so cold in its behalfe that he may be judged to be ex frigidis maleficiatis or this his discourse to be dropped from Diacaldius Driswerus Nosedropensis who wrote de frigidis meteor is Nive Glacie Grandine Neither can it ascend to the supreme Region of the Ayre or produce any effect upon great spirits Nec faciles motus mens generosacapit If it work at all it must bee in the lowest Region thereof and upon very weake braines who will not hearken unto the truth But not to insist upon the Title of the Booke I come to the Booke it selfe In the first page because the Scotch Commissioners say We are neither so ignorant nor so arrogant as to ascribe to the Church of Scotland such absolute puruy and perfection as hath not need or cannot admit of further Reformation Ans I am assured that there is no man that professes Christianitie that can finde fault with this humble and most modest expression and yet this well-willing Pamphleter sets himselfe to jeere at it as a golden peace signifying-speech as if dropped from the mouth of some Chrysostome or conceived by some Ireneus But it is no new thing that men of golden and peaceable spirits such as Chrysostome and Ireneus should meet with enemies such as theirs were for Chrysostome had adversaries who had ferreum os aeneam frontem plumbeum cerebrum and Ireneus had his who were every whit as busily cudere 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as he could be cudere 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2. Upon this he groundeth a latitude of Religion as I beleeve greater then that of Noahs Arke to receive all sorts of cleane and unclean beasts but we desire to know of what latitude he would have it if it shall receive Brownists Anabaptists and the Independenters of New England who interesse all the people yea women too to judge in matters of Religion and in all Ecclesiasticall Censures whatsoever 3. Under condition of his latitude of Noahs Arke or rather of the Regions of the world he assureth us of their Good will acccording to the Covenant wherein they sweare to endeavour the preservation of the reformed Religion in Scotland in Doctrine Worship Discipline and Government against our common enemies the Reformation of Religion in the Kingdomes of England and Ireland in Doctrine Worship Discipline and Government according to the Word of God and the example of the best reformed Churches And shall endeavour to bring the Churches of God in the three Kingdomes to the neerest conjunction and uniformity in Religion Confession of faith and form of Church Government But here we see no latitude nor condition But the Pamphleter to shew his wit and skill and how cunningly he can draw the guilt of perjury upon himselfe has recourse to a Glosse of Orleans and some mentall reservations whereby he strangely tortureth the Covenant against the Text. Hee telleth us that the Covenant onely saith the Reformed Religion in Scotland that is or shall bee and till further Reformation wee will preserve it against our common enemy But never a word in the Covenant of the Reformation of the Religion in Scotland that is or shall be and till further Reformation This is an addition to the Text yea a meere falsification of the Covenant The Covenant speaketh onely of an endeavour of the reformation of Religion in England and Ireland according to the word of God and the example of the best Reformed Churches wherof it presupposeth that of Scotland to be one 1. since it sweareth to preserve it Neither could the Covenanters sweare to preserve it if they thought it to bee deformed for that were to sweare to maintaine deformity in Religion c. 2. And this may further be confirmed for endeavour is finis intenti sed non adepti of a thing intended that as yet is not existent but to exist but preservation is of a thing already existent and supposed to be 3. Because it is so expounded in the thanksgiving of the Assembly to the Scots Commissioners for their Booke Neither for all this beleeve wee that the Reformed Churches and namely that of Scotland cannot erre as the Romanists attribute unto their Church But the question is only whether or no they doe erre and wherein if in that that they will not receive the Independent Anarchie and Papalitie into every particular Congregation in permitting their particular Consistory compounded of one Minister and two or three ruling Elders to judge so many hundreds of persons who will not suffer themselves to be judged by any yea not by the whole Christian world If in this or any other thing they erre they professe themselves ready to bee informed and afterwards reformed But because they are fallible and may erre to conclude therefore that in every thing wherein they differ from Independenters Brownists Anabaptists c. they doe erre and so to quit their Religion they are not such fooles for by the same reason we might as well conclude our Brethren should quit their Tenets and come to us P. 2. Apol. Ah deare Brethren Here he calleth us deare and sweet Brethren but this Doctor had need of a Doctor for his palate is so feverish and vitiated that he relishes bitternesse in the sweet expressions of those whom he calleth sweet Brethren and his conceptions are so far disordered that he applieth to the Apologists what the Reformation cleared saith of ignorant and ill-informed people onely and doth not apply that which justly he might have applied to them in the following words viz. the misrepresentations and indirect aspersions of others who doe so commend c. and this distinction appeareth cleerly by those particles mistakings of some and mis-representations of others This well-willer telleth us that wise men are silently intentive expecting disputed positions from the Assembly Ans And why not ye also since in the last disputed Position ye caried away so great glory If good Cato say true Virtutem primam esse puta compescere linguam truly ye had the chiefe of all vertues and that in a most high degree yea in gradu heroico for ye
shall he not be excommunicated for it shall his ignorance excuse him is not his ignorance a sin and especially when it is concomitant or subsequent to some other sinne or action of the will when he has procured it to himselfe or when he used not morall diligence enough to chase it away shall or can the ignorance of the Law or of his duty which hee is bound to know excuse him or free him from excommunication Is not that Socinianisme Arminianisme judge ye Master Doctor and answer not with complaints lamentable Interjections as if you would rather be pitied then bound to prove any thing ye say pay us not with generalities and Individuum vagums but signatums Answer I pray you to the point All the authority that this Master Doctor Well-willer can bring for himselfe p. 11. and 12. is a Morellus and some other excommunicated Ministers in France which yet he hath borrowed from the cleared Reformation As for that which he saith p. 13. § 2. that a Bishop is a Presbytery contracted and a Presbytery a Bishop diffused 1. It is but one of the Separatists ordinary jeeres against Presbyterian Government 2. They prove it not 3. The Commissioners answer it p. 25. 4. And if it were so yet Presbyterian Aristocracie should bee admitted since it is Gods ordinance but nor Episcopacy since it is not Gods ordinance 5. Amongst the Helvetians if one man should goe and contrive into his owne person all the authority which is diffused amongst all the Rulers there thinke you that they would endure him or rather not put him to death as a Tyrant and a Traytor according to his demerits The very contrivance of authority into one person which God hath diffused in many is unjust and tyrannicall in Gods Church But the Doctor objecteth that in forbearing Excommunication I beleeve he understandeth the greater they leave more to the Magistrate then the Presbyterie doth Answ This the Doctor saith but proveth it not and therefore we deny it with the like facility that he propoundeth it our reason is because when a man is excommunicated the Civill Magistrate ceaseth not for all that to punish him civilly for the Presbyterie by excommunication exileth or casteth him out of the Church society notwithstanding which he remaineth in the State society and if his sinne be against the State and deserve it the Magistrate may exile him and cast him out of the State society or of the Kingdome but not out of the Church no more then the Church may cast him out of the Kingdom As for your comparisons in saying that it is not an English heart that speaketh so it is but a sophisticall evasion seditiously to clude their argument whereunto you cannot bring so much as a probable solution so you grant what they say Neither is our dispute here about English Scots or French but about Christian hearts and consciences It is a shame to an English man to be Author of Schisme in his owne Country when Strangers imploy all their endeavours for union and peace both in Church and Common-wealth But this I leave and pray you to tell us what ye give more to the Civill Magistrate then we whether it be an Ecclesiasticall or Civill power and wherein whether to judge in matter of Doctrine or Discipline Remember Sir that in speaking of New England P. 8. you give them nothing else but Gods word for Church Government and the Kings patent for what they did in Policie and tell us if ever they followed the Kings or his Councels directions in Church Policie Item tell us whether it is the Civill Magistrate or the Church Officers part to erect Church Government and to make the Lawes thereof to judge according to the same and to put them in execution c Here he telleth us also or objecteth that Excommunication hath need of better grounds then mens sinning of simplicity or ignorance Answ So the ignorance of Jesus Christ and denying of his merits should not incur the sentence of Excommunication Hee objecteth that the punishment of Excommunication for small faults will make the punishment at last small in the eyes of men Answ It is true but is it the doctrine of the Reformed Churches that it should be inflicted for small faults But to cleare more this matter two things are needfull to be expounded the first is what the Independents understand by great sinnes the second what they understand by the parties knowne light thirdly what by Christianity fourthly what by common received practices of Christianity fiftly what by the Church As for the first a sinne may be great either quoad essentiam or quoad entitatem according to its essence or entity or as it were its quantity That sinne is said to be greater then another according to its essence the species whereof degenerateth most from the divine Rule of Gods Law such as be the sins that are greatest in regard of their object so it is a greater sinne to offend God then man because it includeth in it selfe a greater objective deformity then the other But a sinne is greater then another according to its entity or quantity that has greater extension intension or duration i. e. more parts more degrees and of a longer continuance then another By extension or more parts I understand either objective or formall parts viz. when a sinne is committed against more persons as the sinne committed against twenty is greater then that committed against two or has more materiall objects as when one stealeth more money viz. two pound it is a greater finne then to steale two pence So it is a greater sinne in respect of the formall perts or acts wherein formally sin consifteth if they be taken in concreto when a man returneth oftentimes to the same sinne as hee who stealeth ten times is a farre greater sinner then he that stealeth but only once In respect of the intention or degrees of sinne that sinne is greater then another wherein there be more degrees as when it is committed more willingly with greaterliberty with greater violence with greater knowledge Item by him that hath greater helpes of grace or of nature to resist it and to produce the opposite effects of vertue Finally that sin is greater then another in duration that continueth longer So a sin may be greater then another quoad essentiam and lesse quoadentitatem or essentially greater but entitatively or in quantity lesse then another and on the contrary greater then another quoad entitatem or in regard of its quantity but not greater essentially For example if a man sin against the precepts of the first Table in not loving God with all his heart be sory therefore and against his Father not onely in not loving him as himselfe but also in abusing him willingly and offering him violence without any remorse of conscience the first sinne is greater essentialiter but the last is greater entitativè so some Schoolemen say that faith is more certaine then any
Afterwards he telleth us that French Ministers as Anonymus as himselfe and the French Discipline is for the Independenters but proveth it not but supposeth that we should take it upon his word which we may not at any hand doe till we see more candor and sincerity in his proceedings As for Merellus and some Ministers of the French Church excommunicated for their erronious opinions or ill lives and afterward assaulted the Discipline whereby they were sentenced if they have any such for them we envy them not such brethren Because the Commissioners p. 18. of the Reformation cleated mainteining the fidelity of the Reformers of the Scottish Church say that they deserted not their Churches nor caried away Churches with them nor did undergoe any voluntary exile but thought it a great spoile after that they were sentenced to exile to save their lives and to live with very small meanes farre from any friends to comfort them This the Doctor applieth to the Independenters of whom the Commissioners doe not speake but of their owne Ministers But since it is his pleasure to doe so I must say that hence it followeth that their exile was a far greater suffering then that of the Independents 1. for it was involuntary but the more involuntary that any afflictions be the greater they are and the more voluntary they be the leste they be for poena debet esse molesta involuntaria but that which is voluntary is not troublesome 2. That of the Independents was accompanied with many friends and worldly meanes so was not the other 3. It may be doubted if Pastours for their personall or particular persecution may fly without actuall compulsion and the publick consent of their Flock since they are not in the Church in quality of particular but of publick persons and Heads of the Flock Neither can that Text of Scripture helpe him viz. When they persecute you in one place flie to another for that is said of particular and not of publick persons or if it be said of the Apostles as to the Apostles it holdeth not in particular Ministers tyed to particular Churches for they are tyed to their particular Churches but so were not the Apostles who were equally bound to teach all the Churches of the world according to that saying of Christ Goe teach all Nations Matth. 28.19 and so could never abandon their flock And as for his Answer that they hept themselves for a reserve to assist the Church at their returne I must say they were very provident in foreseeing such an extraordinary case and prudent in preserving of their persons whereas the others sacrificed their lives for Christs truth Pag. 12. § 3. and p. 13. § 1. 2. the Doctor saith nothing against that which the Commissioners say and so approveth it he applieth it to the Independenters and denieth that they esteeme so of Excommunication viz. that to limit the censure of Excommunication in matter of opinion to the common and uncontroverted principles and in the matter of manners to the common and universall practises of Christianitie and in both to the parties known light is the dangerous opinion of the Arminians and Socinians openeth a wide dore and proclaimeth libertie to all other practises and errors which are not fundamentall and universally abhorred by all Christians c. To this he answereth with complaints and saith that there is no argument here But in this Laconick discourse there be more arguments then he seeth The first is Arminians and Socinians opinions are not to be received But to limit Excommunication in matters of opinion c. is Arminians and Socinians opinions Ergo It is not to be received The second is What openeth a doore and proclaimeth libertle to all other practifes and errors which are not fundamentall is not to be admitted But to limit Excommunication c. is such Ergo it is not to be admitted The third is An opinion universally abhorred by all Christians is not to be received But to limit Excommunication in matter of opinion to the common uncontroverted principles and in matter of manners to the common and universall practises of Christianitle and in both to the parties known light viz. of Nature or of Grace is an opinion universally abhorred by all Christians Ergo to limit Excommunication c. is not to be admitted 4. The Doctrine that tendeth to the overthrow of the Reformed Religion is not to be received But to limit excommunication c. tendeth to the overthrow of the Reformed Religion Ergo it is not to be received To these Arguments he answereth not formally neither to the matter nor to the forme and no wonder for he could not observe them Only to the end he may seeme not to have answer'd nothing at all he telleth us that Pagans and Infidels doe not practise But how is that to the purpose since in all the Commissioners Discourse there is not one word of Pagans or Infidels 2. He answereth that Papists Prelates Socinians Arminians Brownists and Separatists doe not hold some common truths with Christians But to what purpose he saith this I know not if it be to prove that they may be excommunicated we deny it not but say that to hold such an opinion is Arminianisme Socinianisme c. i. e. an Arminian or Socinian opinion whereunto he answereth not Againe by Socinians Arminians c. either he understandeth those who are not borne in the Church and who professe not our Religion or those who are borne in the Church and professe our Religion If the first they cannot be excommunicated since they are not nor ever were of our communion if the last it is true they may be excommunicated but that is not the question but whether this be not Socinianisme and Arminianisme viz. to limit Excommunication in matter of Opinion to the common and uncontroverted principles and in matter of Manners to the universall practises of Christianity Item whether this openeth not a doore to all other errors and practises as they say After this when he can answer nothing he returneth unto his ordinary lamentations that they are compared to Infidels c. But the Commissioners serve not themselves of bare comparisons as ye use to doe but with solid Arguments which prove you clearely what they say neither are ye compared by them with Seperatists but I prove you to be such for separating your selves from the reformed Churches Sacramental communion neither are ye compared with Brownists c. for conforming of Church Government with Scripture as ye pretend but for perverting of it against Scripture wherefore all these your complaints are nothing else but calumnies that yee cast upon the Church of Christ evermore sophisticating with your captions of non causa ut causa according to the ordinary custome of your Sect. And I pray this Doctor what if a man become bruitish and have the light of his understanding altogether corrupted so as to deny that there is any sinne against the light of Nature
be insufficient for removing of offences unlesse the Authority of the Church of which both of them are members shall intervene The Doctor replieth that besides Exhortations Protestations and non-communion they professo themselves ever to submit and to have recourse to the Civill Magistrate Inst This profession of submission is either voluntary depending of their own free will or by necessity of obligation whereunto they are subject by Law If they chose the first it is no more then a number of Watermen Tinkers and Coblers may doe of them-selves by a particular convention 2. It is not juris divini as they pretend their Government to be but humani depending of their own fancy And to professe themselves to be willing to have recourse to the civill Magistrate it is not at all to the purpose but most absurd 1. for that power of the Clvill Magistrate is not intrinsecall but extrinsecall unto the Church but we speake only of the power that is intrinsecall and proper to the Church and so must our Brethren also if they will speake rationally 2. In so doing they make the Civill Magistrate Judge of Ecclesiasticall controversies in Doctrine and Discipline and Head of the Church c. which cannot hold when he is an Infidell an Antichristian c. whereof see more in the Commissioners answer and in the Observations and Annotations upon the Apologeticall Narration 3. In so doing ye make the Churcle power subordinate to Civill power which cannot be for subordination is betwixt things of the same kinde or sort but such are not Civill and Ecclesiasticall power which are opposite or rather contradistinguished or differenced one from another as things destinated to or different ends the one spirituall and the othertemporall 2. He complaineth that the Commissioners call them these of the Separation unlesse withall they exprest they meant the seperation from the Prolates wayes as Scotland and England now doe Answ Yea but they separate themselves also from the Sacramentall communion of all Christian Churches yea of all the Reformed Churches of the world And if it be true what we have read in the letters from New-England from the communion of one Church with another amongst themselves 3. He saith that such a Case may fallout amongst us with swasmes of Anabaptists and Antinomians Answ That cannot be for they have no Communion with us and therefore cannot be excommunicated by us 2. It may easily fall out amongst you for the Anabaptists as we have already shewed are your owne and not ours 4. He sayes that the Commissioners suppose more in their second Answer viz. that two or more Churches may mutually pretest and pronounce the sentence of non-communion one against another Answ This Doctor is either very dull in not conceiving of this cleare and solid answer of the Commissioners or else very malicious in disguising of it for the Commissioners argue here upon a Case according to the Independenters Hypothesis which cannot but be ordinary amongst them according to their Discipline and howbeit their Churches be very few and have been a very short time in rerum natura yet it hath fallen out amongst them in New England and they have had the like Case in the Netherlands according to their owne Relation but in our way and Discipline it cannot fall out amongst us for if two Parish Churches have any difference they submit themselves both to the Colloque or to the Provinciall Assembly if two Provinciall Synods or Assemblies differ the Nationall Assembly judgeth betwixt them both so that this Case cannot fall out amongst us and it is a practicall principle that par in parem non habet imperium since neither of the equals are subject one to the other and such are all Parish Churches amongst themselves Classes amongst themselves and Provinciall Synods amongst themselves The Doctor by a Doctorall power jumpeth over the 3. and 4. Answer with this worthy and most Laconicke reply viz. This same reply sarveth to year third and fourth answer Which whether it be truly said I remit it to the Readers judgement The Commissioners fifth Answer is By what probability can it be made to appeare to any rationall man and indifferent minde that no authority shall be as valid as authority against the obstinate that via admonitionis and requisitionis is equall with via citationis publiea authoritatis There cannot bee so much as triall and examination of the offence without authority unlesse the party bee willing to appeare that perswasion and jurisdiction that the delivering over to Satan and thereby striking the conscience with the terrour of God by the authority of Jesus Christ which hath the promise of a speciall and strong ratification in heavn and any other Ecclesiasticall way whatsoever which must be inferiour unto this and depend onely upon perswasion on the one part and free will on the other can be supposed to be like efficacious No man will say but in civill matters it is one thing to have adoe with our neighbour who hath no more authority over us then we have over him and another thing to have to doe with civill power which hath authority over both this solution I have written over in the Commissioners own words because it is so significative so strong and evident that it dissolveth all the frivolous Replies of this good Doctor The Doctor hence supposeth 1. That there is no authority but Scripture-authority by Scripture-authority I beleeve he meaneth that instituted by Scripture otherwaies Scripture authority is the excellency of Scripture verity which binds us to beleeve it because of its Author which is God 2. He supposes that to be most valid that convinceth and conquers actus elicitos the minde rather then that which doth onely manacle and constraine â—â—â—us imperatos the outward carriage then makes his quaere thus Is the way of admonition protestation and non-communion no authority Reply But here the Doctor is mightily mistaken both in his Authority and in his Actus eliciti and Imperati 1. For every thing that is said in Scripture howbeit its verity be grounded on Divine Authority yet giveth it not men an authority or authoritative power for what authoritative power is given to man or Angel by those words In the beginning God made the heaven and the earth 2. Neither doth every admonition in Scripture made to men arm them with authority as that place of Saint Paul whereon the Doctor buildeth his authority Give no offence for it commandeth not an authority or authoritative power to be exercised but an act of obedience to be practised Item no publique power or authority but a private duty because it is common to all men which cannot be said of Ecclesiasticall authority Likewise that other passage better a milstone were hanged about ones necke and he cast into the Sea then to offend a weake brother Item that we were better not to eate flesh then to offend c. All this is said by Divine Authority in respect
them in the Lord but not to rule ever themselves and others Answ 1. What is Well-willer understandeth by Congregations whether Ministers alone of Ruling Elders alone or both together or men or all men women and children and in a word all the members of the Church I know not Neither doth hee expresse his minde upon this point Only I must say that being once in company with some of their Preachers I heard some women maintaine stoutly in presence of the Minister without any contradiction made by him that women also had power in Ecclefiasticall Assemblies to judge of Controversies of Religion and in matter of all Ecclesiasticall Censures 2. I answer it is one thing 1. to call a Church Officer to his charge or to give him his vocation or calling 2. another to send him into the charge or to give him his mission 3. another to admit him into the charge and to elect him or choose him The first is an act of the Church officers who examine his life and Doctrine and afterwards give him his Ordination in the name of the whole Ministry The second is an act of those who send him and sometimes is done by the Ministers in a Colloque or a Synod which give him his Ordination as when hee is sent to feed a particular flocke sometimes by a particular Church as in some particular Commission to a Classe or Synod but in the name of the universall visible Church as yee see in the Assembly at Antiochia in sending some Ministers to the Assembly at Hierusalem The third is an act sometimes of particular Churches as in the admission and election of their owne Ministers Sometimes of a Colloque and Synod as in the admission of the Members therof as in that Synod at Hierusalem And here to avoid all Sophistications of our Adversaries note that I speak here only of the visible Church according to its visible forme and consequently of the visible and externe Vocation Mission Admission and Election of Ministers so I say every Church chooses i. e. elects its owne Ministers but it calleth them not nor sendeth them It giveth them not their generall Vocation nor Mission into the Ministery but that is an act of the whole Church which in actu signato belongeth to the whole Church but in actu exercito according to the exigence of time and places to particular Ministers not in quality of Ministers of particular Congregations but of greater consociations in a representative body of many particular Churches So a Minister in a Synod hath power of God by the whole visible Church to judge rule and feed many Churches positis ponendio ut poni debent so as nothing thereunto requisite bee wanting but all ordered as it should viz. if it be by consent or election of his particular Church and he bee admitted by the Classe or Synod whereunto he is sent c. as it is ordinarily practised in our Reformed Churches Master Well-willer replyeth againe That Episcopacy is as intrinsecall to particular Churches as the Presbyteric since Bishops are chosen by the people at their instalment where customarily people are allowed to make any just exception Answ I deny the Assumption viz. that it is as intrinsecall and that for the reason brought by the Commissioners As for that which hee bringeth for confirmation thereof viz. because they are chosen by the people I answer 1. It is not enough they have their Election from the people but they must also have their Vocation and Mission from the Church in the name and authority of Christ which they have not according to this Well-willers owne Tenets 2. Because the people can make no Church Officer and principally Ministers since they have not the abilities to judge of their learning and gifts 3. In choosing of an Archbishop it is not morally possible that all the people can elect him and especially when he is a great Archbishop or a Primate over a whole Kingdome for all the people cannot well meet together 4. And howbeit they could meet yet could not their consent and voyces easily be gathered 5. It were a ridiculous thing in choosing of him to seek the consent and voyces of every idle and ignorant fellow yea of women that are of the people 6. Neither is it enough to chose a Bishop to make any just exception for that is not to elect him but to hinder his Election 7. Neither is this ordinarily practised 8. And Master Well-willer to the Bishops here confesseth in the next line that it hath had little successe But Master Well-willer confirmeth it out of that ordinary passage of Hieronymus To avoid Schisme one of the classicall Presbyterie was chosen to be as Chair man Answ 1. Such a Bishop is not an English or Papist Bishop but a Moderator of the action or a Master of the Chaire which will not make up a Bishop in so farre as a Bishop is distinguished from an ordinary Minister for yee your selves pretend to have your Synods which cannot be without some Moderator President or Master of the Chaire and yet ye deny that ye have any Bishops or Episcopall Government 2. Neither are Bishops annually 3. To bee short Master Well-willer bringeth us here no reall but imaginary Bishops in the Kingdome of Utopia viz. that are only Masters of the Chaire annuall c. 4. Item whose Chancellour Archdeacon c. were Parishioners 5. Their Chancellours are not ordinarily Ecclesiasticall but Lay-men as ye call them who neverthelesse judge of all Ecclesiasticall Causes which ye ordinarily blame 6. Neither have they Vocation from God as yee confesse Neither are they chosen by all the Churches that they rule and feed if any food they give and feed not themselves with the fat of the people You are also too bold Master Well-willer to say that the people formerly have beene as willing they should reigne as ever any people were in your Kingdome to have the Presbytery ever them Answ We can shew you hundreds yea thousands who have cutled their Government both in England and in Ireland and what hath been the good will of the Scots towards them they can best tell themselves as having felt it these foure or five yeares last past But as for the Presbyterian Government ye have never heard the People murmure much lesse rise up against it 2. But if it be so that ye have found them so sweet what needed ye run away and desert the Church here They did compell Ministers and Churchwardens to doe many things against their conscience and in case of refufall did ordinarily undoe them as we can produce many examples both in England and Ireland yea of the Independenters themselves before that they spake this way in despite of the Reformed Churches The like of this cannot without singular impudence be said to have been any where practised by any Scots Presbyterie We grant you that it is not the peoples consent only but if according to the Word that makes a Government lawfull But wherefore may not a Congregationall representative Church as well choose men for Classicall Assemblies as for Synods What pattern have you for the one rather then for the other To all this according to your usuall custom ye say much but prove litle or nothing of what is in dispute betwixt us many books ye make but little to the purpose And now when ye can doe no better ye can your selves most desperately on the Bishops side to maintain their cause when ye are yet too weake to maintaine your own This Well-willer in the end of his Booke wishes that the Commissioners golden speech be written upon all their actions viz. That those that are most averse to Presbyterie if they allow no matertall difference in Doctrine Worship or Practice might enjoy their peace and all comforts of their Ministery and Profession under it without controllment of that Authoritative power which they so much apprehend And thereunto replieth We have saith he been of late made to feare the contrary by the reports of some not of the meanest ranke rf your own Nation Answ No godly man that knoweth what is Presbyterian Government can doubt of it for according to the rules thereof 1. no man is compelled to be Actor in any thing against his own conscience 2. If you will be under it and allow no materiall difference c. without doubt the Synod and all Orthodox Churches will cherish you and assure you of it But if ye wil ever live in Panick feares and be so witty as evermore to find out new matter of jealousies to vex your own soules and make you to live in such a perpetuall diffidence all the forces of the King and his three Kingdomes is not able to hinder it ye must trust in God and admit of such securitie from your Brethren as morally ye can have If this doe not the businesse we know not what to advise you As for that Anonymous Country-man of ours who he can be and if any such be and whether his discourse with you could give you matter of just feare we know not and therefore forbeare to answer Only I wish seriously on your behalfe ye would doe nothing against the glory of your God the weale of your Country or to the breach of charity with your Brethren who so much desire to live in peace with you all The peace of God be with you all Amen FINIS