a Million who haue embroyled themselues in the disputes of the time yet dare I vndertake to reduce the points in controuersie to so short an issue and to set downe such a course for the handling thereof that more of the truth shall be discouered in this one conference than in all the other disputes which haue beene since Martin Luther first opposed himselfe against the Pope For both the issue shall bee so drawne and the meanes so disposed of that the persons of neither Religion keeping themselues to their owne proper Maximes shall be able to reiect them I should be too impudent to giue it out if I were not well assured of my abilitie for the performance But I am acquainted well enough with the euasions of either side I know their fallacies and I haue also the Art to preuent them But the time seemes not to be yet so fit for wee must haue our spirits quiet as well as our State and aboue all free from that same preiudication For if we Catholikes come to a Disputation being confident before hand that the Huguenots are already condemned for Heretikes And they on the other side that they vnderstand the Scriptures better than S. Austin and that all is cleare on their side to what purpose serues such a Conference The Priests and Ministers may seeme as confident as they please for they are our Teachers but we should not be so resolute for we are but Learners The end which they propose is the Victorie but the end which we seeke for is the Truth Which if wee haue found why looke we further But if we beleeue without searching we may very well be deceiued The chiefe reason then which induced me to reassume my designe of writing in this point of Moderation was that our spirits being something pacified wee might be the better prepared to a Conference and in that Conference make discouery of the Truth and by discouery of the Truth establish a Peace in the Church of God But I suspecting mine owne insufficiencie and fearing withall to bestow my labour in vaine and on the other side being wondrously desirous to see an vnion in Religion I chose rather to hazard that paines which I had already taken in publishing that answer which I had made before than to lose a new The reason then why I that am a Catholike doe rather blame the rigour of ours against the Huguenots than theirs against vs both parties being faulty much alike is because he that would reforme another must begin at himselfe The importunitie and arrogancie of mine Aduersarie vrges me sometimes to write not so like a Catholike which I doe not purposely to confute the Catholike Religion but to shew only That the errors of the Huguenots are not so grosse as our side perswades themselues they are And knowing also that no one thing hath more suppressed the Truth than the meane esteeme that the one partie hath of the others Arguments Which God knowes is meerly out of ignorance forsomuch as the deeper learned any man is the more difficultie he finds in confuting his Aduersarie For it is most certaine that Ignorance engenders Vehemencie and Vehemencie blinds vs from discouering the Truth For their ignorance that are in the rights makes those likewise the more vehement that are in the errour and the ignorance of those that are in errour blinds them the more See then the true intent of this my Discourse wherein though I may perchance haue vsed some Reasons which in too rigorous a Iudgement may be esteemed with the most in fauour of these new opinions yet is not my intent with them to seduce any man or to turne them from the Faith of their forefathers but only to purge their spirits from preiudication vntill further proofe be made And if such proofe be made without which I conceiue no hope of vnion in the Church I adiure thee beloued Reader of whether Religion soeuer thou beest to come with a spirit void of this preiudication Such a spirit I wish to thee as I protest I my selfe haue and I pray God to confirme in all of vs. Amen The Argument of the Booke THe Catholique Apologie hath endeuoured to acquit the Huguenots of heresie by two Reasons The first is for that the Religion pretended to be Reformed is not hereticall of it selfe for that the substance of the Catholique Faith is receiued by the Huguenots and that the Ceremonies which they haue reiected were vnknowne to the ancient Church of which two points viz. Doctrine and Ceremonies all Religion is composed The second is that their Religion hath not beene as yet condemned by any lawfull Iudgement because that before the Councell of Trent it was not condemned in any Generall Councell and that the Councell of Trent is neither lawfull of itselfe nor as yet approued of in France Vpon which consideration albeit that the Huguenots had wandred from the true faith yet ought we not to proceed against them as against Heretiques vntill they haue receiued an arrest of condemnation from a generall Councell no more thâ—n we can in iustice put a Malefactor to death although he be notoriously capable vntill he be cast by the Iury and hath had his triall The Author now of the Answer to this Apologie in the second part of his booke from the fifth Chapter to the fifteenth trauailes hard to refute the foresaid Reasons in the fifth Chapter he only propounds his Method in the sixth hee would shew that the Religion of the Huguenots is quite another from that of the Catholiques in the seuenth that the Ceremonies of the moderne Church of Rome were obserued in the Primitiue Church in the eight that the Doctrine pretended to be Reformed stands condemned by ancient Councels in the 9 10 11 12 13 and 14. he defends the Councell of Trent whereof the 11 12 and 13. are to proue that that Councell is absolutely lawfull and the 9 10 and 14. that it is receiued in France after which method I will also diuide my defence into these six Chapters 1. In my first I will proue against the reasons of his sixt Chapter that the Catholiques and Huguenots thus farre agree in Doctrine that they are both of one and the same Faith and Religion 2. In my second against his seuenth Chapter that neither the Catholiques nor the Huguenots doe accord with the Primitiue Church in the matter of Ceremonies and that for this reason the Huguenots are not to be condemned 3. In my third against his eighth that before the times of the Councell of Trent they stood not publikely and lawfully condemned 4. In my fourth against his 11 12 and 13. Chapters that the Councell of Trent is not lawfull 5. In my fifth against his 9 10 and 14. Chapter that it is not receiued in France 6. In my sixth and last I will conclude that the Huguenots may be good right be still reputed for members of the Catholique Apostolique and Roman Church CHAP. 1. That the
the Huguenots say much failed in all these circumstances For first it decided before it measured for as much as euen before their comming to the Councell they were euery man of them resolued to condemne the Huguenots Secondly in examining and measuring of the questions it measured not by the written Word only but by Traditions also as it was agreed vpon at the fourth Session of the said Councell So that it measured sometimes either without a Rule or at least by a Rule very contrary to that of the Councell of Nice Thirdly admit that it had measured by a true Rule yet did it not so much apply the doctrine to the Rule as bend the Rule to make it fit to the doctrine viz peruerted the Scripture by an interpretation forced to their owne opinion For in the fourth Session it was decreed That no man should giue any other interpretation then that which was consonant to the doctrine of the Church of Rome So that in stead of measuring their doctrine by the Rule they measured the Rule by their doctrine But he followes it further against the triall of the Spirits that if we should try all then should we call againe into question the very Bookes of the holy Scripture it selfe I answer no and that it followes not that we should call in question againe the bookes approued by ancient Councels because they reiect some which are approued by the Councell of Trent seeing that in this particular the iudgement of that Councell is suspected euen by Catholikes themselues For Sixtus Senensis a great Catholike yea euen since the Councell of Trent hath reiected for Apocryphall the seuen last Chapters of the booke of Hester which were approued by the Councell of Trent which doubtlesse he would neuer haue done had he held it vnlawfull to try the Spirit of the said Councell Thirdly he argueth that if matters already determined and defined may be brought in question againe what end then would there be of Controuersies I answer that this reason is not sufficient to stay the triall of Councels because that this is the way to set an end to Controuersies for that it is not enough to dispatch Controuersies vnlesse we be sure that this dispatching is a well ending of them And so the Arrians might euen as well haue perswaded vs to rely vpon their packt Councell of Ariminum to giue an end to Controuersies To which our Aduersarie can shape no other answer but that their Councell was not lawfull and that the Councell of Trent was Well then say I that though wee may not examine the Decrees of a Councell yet may we try whether the Councell were lawfull or not and for this once we desire no more aduantage then this and thus much must be granted vs in despite of the world For if we ought simply to rely vpon the Authoritie of Councels which commonly passe for lawfull amongst our Doctors without any further enquirie there is no reason wherefore the Graecians should rather assent to the second Councell of Nice which allowed of Images then to that of Constantinople made vp of 300. of their owne Bishops which condemned them The fourth Reason for which he takes away the libertie of trying their doctrine from the people is quoted out of the 17. Chapter of Deuteronomie where it is commanded That men should enquire of the Priests and Leuieâ—s and the Iudge appointed for the time in cases of difficultie And Moses saith our Aduersarie addeth not Try the Spirits of the Priests and Iudges But if any grow proud and will not obey the command of the Priests that man shall die by the sentence of the Iudges Nor is this much different from that which our Lord saith in the Gospell of Saint Mathew The Scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses chaire whatsoeuer therefore they say vnto you that obserue and doe As for Moses Commandement it was giuen vnto the Iewes whereupon Rabbi Salomon Iarchi concludes That we are to beleeue whatsoeuer the Iewish Priests say Since then that their Priests interpreted the Prophecies euen of Christ himselfe otherwise then we Christians doe A Iew will say that Christ is not yet come because their Priests deny it and if according to our Aduersaries saying we ought not to trie the Spirits of their Priests I demand then how he will answer the Iewes and I will answer him as he does them namely that in the text this clause is inserted According to Law that is to say we are to obey their Commandements so farre forth ay they are agreeable to the Law which how can we know vnlesse we examine it So that let our Aduersarie take his choice either to confesse that we are not in this place forbidden to try the Spirits of the Priests or else to acknowledge himselfe to be a Iew. To the place of Saint Mathew because he saith how that it is not much vnlike our answer shall likewise be the same For our Sauiour hath not commanded vs to obey the Pharisees in all things simply but not to take such scandall at their liues as that we should refuse to obey them when they speake well For should we simply giue credit to what they bid vs without tryall of it why should we beleeue that Iesus Christ is the Sonne of God when as the high Priest said that hee blasphemed in calling himselfe so His last reason is drawne from the Councell of the Apostles mentioned Acts 15. It seemed good vnto the holy Ghost and to vs Whence he concludes That Gods Spirit is so infallibly tyed vnto a lawfull Councell that we ought not to call the definitions of it into question nor would Saint Paul himselfe saith our Aduersary examine the instructions of the Councell of the Apostles as Saint Luke saith Acts 16. Hee gaue them that to obserue which was ordained by the Apostles and the Elders which were at Ierusalem I would faine aske one of our Catholike Doctors to what purpose are there so many disputations and consultations at our Councels if so be that the holy Ghost doth so infallibly direct them His answer will be That Gods ordinary prouidence is such as that hee still assists them with his Spirit when they for their parts apply that diligence which they ought and not otherwise Iust as hee makes not the ground fruitfull but when the husbandman tills and sowes his corne in it and applyes such labour as the soyle requires And thus much is cleare by this passage namely That the Apostles did apply all industry and the aptest meanes for the resoluing of the doubts proposed for it is said That after a long disputation Peter stood vp whence a man may conclude That the holy Ghost is no otherwise promised to a Councell then conditionally viz. when the Councell doth apply all the meanes and industry on their parts for the finding out of the truth and that otherwise it may be destitute of Gods Spirit namely when it doth not apply
THE CATHOLIKE MODERATOR OR A MODERATE EXAMINATION OF THE DOCTRINE of the PROTESTANTS Prouing against the too rigid CATHOLIKES of these times and against the Arguments especially of that Booke called The Answer to the Catholike Apologie That we who are members of the CATHOLIKE APOSTOLIKE ROMAN CHVRCH ought not to condeme the PROTESTANTS for HERETIKES vntill further proofe be made First written in French by a Catholike Gentleman and now faithfully translated See the occasion of the name of HVGVENOTS after the Translaters Epistle LONDON Printed for NATHANIEL BVTTER 1623. THE TRANSLATER TO the Christian Readers AND TO ALL THOSE ESPECIALly whose hard hap it is or may be to be seduced vnto Popery That by the helpe of this Booke and their owne Prayers they may be deliuered from the the Euill when the Priests and Iesuits would Lead them into temptation THere is a bold Nation of men the Tempters aboue mentioned I meane slily of late crept in amongst you well-meaning and abused people whose enticements as you know too well still begin with the Church saying you Protestants are direct Hereticks you haue no Church Are you therefore reconciled to the Church Meaning all this time the Romane Church Had they fairely meant the Catholike Church I know no Caluinist that hath put this Article out of his Creed I beleeue in the holy Catholike Church And to say I beleeue What else implies it but to beleeue himselfe to be of it else why his Creed That therefore you may make one Romanist to answer all the rest doe but turne him that would seduce you vnto these two first Chapters and he shall there finde that for those few points of Reformation both in matter of Doctrine and Ceremonie wherein the Protestants haue iustly dissented from the Papists we can be no Heretiques And that their owne new Doctors who boast so much of Antiquitie can no where shew our Doctrine to be sufficiently condemned before the time of that fifth Gospell of the Romanists the Councell of Trent I meane which ended no more than some 60 yeeres agoe the third Chapter will euidently shew them And how incompetent a Iudge an Aduersarie is and how vnlawfull a Councell that of Trent was the Instances of the fourth and fifth Chapters will euince it Lastly that we Protestants hauing euer continued true members of the true holy and catholique Church doe not now need any Reconciliation to theirs of Rome the last Chapter will abundantly demonstrate it Which six Chapters being written by a Gentleman who euery where professes himselfe one of theirs if they would offer to shift off as they haue euasions enow by saying that what is written in this Booke is but the opinion of one Doctor Loe then we haue not only the Authors opinions but the strength of his reasons to vrge them withall All which are so mannerly so directly and so succinctly toucht vpon and come off so handsomely as no man in my opinion hath yet said better that purposed to say so little To giue you therefore the minde of the Authour in a word Nothing was here written with any intention to vrge vs Protestants any whit to depart from our Right in yeelding to a Reconciliation with them but to perswade them rather to esteeme better of vs and to demonstrate withall that if they will iudge right they must needs thinke well And this is the purpose of the Translator also To shew you therefore to vnderstand all this Booke If the Reader shall sometimes feele that this Author now and then giues the Protestants a light fillip by the way he shall obserue in the conclusion that it was to reach his owne Romanists a smarter blow which is satisfaction enough And that hee giues vs any at all let vs but consider that the Author though he were a moderate man yet that he was withall a Papist and it will take away much of the scandall Lastly which will giue vs as much aduantage as we can desire from one man which is to answer them by one of their owne this Gentleman the Author H. C. was too well knowne here in England to haue continued a most zealous Roman Catholique vntill his dying day and yet neuerthelesse are all his Reasons for Moderation directed to the Papists as if they should first begin it and all his conclusions directly for the Protestants as though we should still hold them Nay and which is somewhat more whereas all this is with vs of England common to our Brethren the Protestants of France yet doth this Booke make more for vs at home than it doth for them for whose sakes it was first written For though we haue with them entertained the points of Reformation yet haue we not so far receded from the more Primitiue Roman Church which he stands for but that we still retaine more of the necessarie Ceremonies Solemnities and Church Discipline than they of France haue done witnesse his second Chapter of Ceremonies which is still for our aduantage As therefore this little Booke hath beene twice already printed in France which is an Argument of the Protestants good liking of it there so hath it foure or fiue seuerall times both by Diuines and Gentlemen of our owne Religion been translated both into Latine and English which is a demonstratiue Reason to me how much it hath beene lik'd and desired To saue therefore the labour of writing it out which I still obserued as many desirous to doe as could get Copies of it I haue thought fit to let mine be published desiring all those that light vpon it to be as impartiall and charitable as the Author himselfe wishes them which if they be I hope well that the strictest need not be offended and the well-minded may reape much benefit by it Which being my only desire I shall euer pray for THE FIRST OCCASION how the name of HVGVENOTS which our Author euery where vseth came first to be giuen to the French PROTESTANTS THere is euer some Salt as well as Gall in malice and this temper makes it sometimes bitterly witty as may appeare by this name of Huguenots by which and no other doe the French Papists generally vouchsafe to call the Protestants It was taken vp about the yeere 1559. which was some foure or fiue yeeres before Mr. Calvins death Till which time they were called Tourengeaux of the Citie of Tours where the Protestants mostly vsed But about that time there hauing beene a foolish opinion of a Night-Spirits walking vp and downe the streets which they called King Hugon This fancie made one of the Citie Gates to be called King Hugons Gate and the Protestants being once obserued in the night to goe thorow that Gate vnto their Assemblies and holy Exercises were hereupon called Huguenots He that will see more of this Name and the occasion of it may finde a handsome Discourse of it in Monsieur Pasquiers Recherches lib. 7. cap. 52. whither I refer you TO ALL THE KINGS FAITHFVL SVBIECTS and principally
practised anciently notwithstanding that they doe now forbeare them especially when they haue obserued them to change into so much superstition as that our better learned Catholikes doe euen laugh at the poore people whom they themselues haue abused CAP. 3. That the doctrine of the Huguenots hath not beene condemned by any lawfull Iudgement before the Councell of Trent HItherto haue I spoken of the Huguenots Religion as it is in it selfe As well in Doctrine as in Ceremonies viz That Ceremonies be things indifferent And as for their errors in doctrine that they be not in the foundation of faith So that they not being Heretikes in respect of the wickednesse of their opinions let vs now trauerse the Inditement to finde whether they be so by condemnation Now our Aduersarie to conuict them produces the Decrees of diuers Councels to which before I make answer I will propose these 4 Considerations The first is this Whether a generall and lawfull Councell may erre or not in the substance of faith seeing that it is made vp of men in whose testimonie as saith S. Augustine there is so little certaintie his words be these A man may beleeue the Scriptuâ—es without doubting but for any other testimonies it is lawfull either to beleeue them or not to beleeue them So as this priuiledge to be of an irrefageable certaintie is only giuen to the Scriptures which if it be true then all the passages which are drawne from the authoritie of Councels are thus farre forth only of weight as they can be made good by the Scriptures Neuerthelesse this being the common answer of the Huguenots I will make no further vse of it but like a true Catholike confesse this to be an infallible Maxime That a lawfull and generall Councell cannot erre in the substance of faith The second is Whether if such a generall Councell may erre though not in the substance of faith yet at least in other points of Diuinitie of lesse consequence And if they may erre in these then seeing as I haue showne that the Huguenots errors be not in the substance of faith that it followes hereupon That the Councels may erre in their definitiue decisions of those Controuersies which are betwixt the Huguenots and vs being only points of lesser consequence Whereupon it followes That this second sort of heresie becomes supernumerary and their errors not being heresies in their owne nature cannot be made heresies by bare condemnation For the reason why he is counted an Heretike who resists the Decrees of a Councell is for that in doing so he resists the Iudgement of the Holy Ghost which doth still and infallibly accompany the Councell But now if the Holy Ghost be no further forth promised to assist the Councell then when it treateth of things necessary to saluation Then they who hold some tenets contrary to the Councell in other things do not herein resist the iudgement of the Holy Ghost and by consequence are no Heretikes Stapleton professor of the Controuersies at Doway and one of the most learned Catholikes of our times who hath written most accurately of this Argument holds That the holy Ghost is onely promised to assist the Councells in necessary things and that in other things they may erre And Andradius himselfe who defends the Councell of Trent in the very same Booke wherein hee does defend it as generall lawfull and sound in the matter of Faith condemnes the vulgar translation of the Bible as corrupted although the said Councell had authorized it for authenticall so little did hee trust to the iudgement of Councells in things which were beside the essence of faith But admitting thus much That a lawfull Councell cannot erre at all yet is there still a third difficulty viz. Whether these Councells which hee produceth against the Huguenots bee lawfull which euen a Catholike may safely deny for as much as there bee diuers nillities to bee found in them and namely in their manner of proceeding which are no where found in the ancient Councells as I will shew in the next Chapter when I treat of the Councell of Trent Now the Huguenots will bee very well content to bee tryed by the Ancient Councells held in the first 600 yeares of Christ namely vntill such time as the Pope as they say hauing gotten so absolute a Monarchie in the Church tooke away the liberty of Councells and subiected the suffrages of the other Bishops to giue with him now all the Councels alleadged by our Aduersarie are since that time There remaines a fourth difficulty namely Whether the Huguenots haue been iustly condemned by the latter Councells Now vpon these foure considerations a man may perceiue how friuolous his brags are of the Councels for as much as he is able to conclude nothing vnlesse he hath leaue granted him before hand to adde what authority to the Councels he pleaseth to make what Councells lawfull hee listeth and to force the Councells to speake what hee would haue them The most innocent man in the world might bee conuicted by such proofes if a man would beleeue without further examination whatsoeuer euery witness shall bring against him and when his Aduersary also shall haue leaue both to packe the witnesses at his owne pleasure and also to iudge of their testimonies But to returne to our purpose Let vs see next whether the Huguenots stand lawfully condemned by those Councells which hee produceth or not The Catholike Apologie denies it whereby in my conceit hee shewes a great deale of zeale to the Romane Religion For considering what a world of people are infected with the Huguenots doctrine by reason that it is not yet condemned by any lawfull forme of proceeding he endeuors to perswade with the Catholikes to cause a lawfull Councell to bee called to confute them to the end that the Huguenots might bee satisfied by being shewed their errors and bee left without excuse for reiecting the doctrine of the Church of Rome But obseruing that there bee many seditious Catholikes who rather thirst to kill their bodies then to saue their soules doe hinder so holy a designe vnder colour that they bee already condemned by other Councells The Catholike Apology doth very well herein to aduise them not to desist for all this but to pursue so good an enterprise for as much as the former Decrees by which the Huguenots stand condemned are not of such authority but that they may appeale from them to an higher power So that wee must sue out another Processe against them to get such a Iudgment as they themselues shalâ— neuer bee able to except against Now our Aduersary answers that there is no neede to take this course affirming that they bee indeed cast already by such a Iudgment which hee proues by two reasons One is that the doctrine of the Romane Church hath beene publikely confirmed by generall Councells before that of Trent The second is that the Huguenots religion is the same with that
that of the Pope is a priuate quarrell wherein the dignitie of his person is questioned Againe Cyril was not President of the Councell so as that hee could allow or anull the Decrees as hee thought good but sate only first in order hauing otherwise but his single voyce whereas the Pope now a dayes hath his negatiue voice to disanull a whole Councell though generall yea and to make his Decretalls vpon what hee lists without a Councell As for Alexander he sate neither as Iudge nor President but only as a priuate Bishop amongst the rest To conclude Leo came not at all to the Councell of Chalcedon and Anatolius Patriarch of Constantinople sate President in it His concluding reason why the Pope may bee Iudge is because as hee saith hee is not Iudge alone but hath diuers Assistants I answer That in the latter Councells hee hath beene sole Iudge and that the rest of the Bishops haue not beene so much his Assistants as his Vassalls For whatsoeuer the Councell decrees is voyde without the confirmation of the Pope bee to it witnesse his abrogation of the Councells of Frankford Basil and Constance Contrariwise whensoeuer the Pope makes a Decree without a Councell it is of as much vertue as the definitions of the most holy Councell that euer was or can bee For the Popes Aduocates maintaine that hee cannot erre in a matter of faith though hee should giue iudgement without a Councell and that a Councell may erre if not confirmed by him To what purpose then serue the other Bishops ioined with him as companions when as he may doe all without them and they nothing without him The second Obiection of the Catholike Apologie viz. That the Huguenots had not fayre audience is first saith he confuted by that very booke which the Protestants set forth intituled Causacur Electores For they confesse in that booke that they were summoned to the Councell And wee may read moreouer of many ample safe Conducts whereby full liberty was giuen to the Protestants to come to the Councell And this briefly is his answer to which I reply First that the booke which hee mentions deliuers no reason why they came not to the Councell but why they iudged that the forme of proceeding in that Councell was like to bee such as that their comming thither would haue beene to no purpose But to what end answers hee that they were summoned The Apologie affirmes not that they were not called but that they were not heard For it is not enough for a Iudge to call both the parties before him if hee suffers but one of them to speake and iust thus fell it out at that Councell of Trent for Brentius and other Diuines of Sweuia were sent thither by the Duke of Wittenberge but might not be suffered to dispute when they came there Melancthon also and other Ministers of Saxony were vpon the way but turned back againe hauing receiued intelligence from Mauritius the Electors Ambassador there that they could not be heard Secondly I reply that admit that they had beene suffered to dispute and had been heard yet were the Conditions altogether vnequal for they requiring to haue a deciding voice with the rest of the Councel according to the form of the safe Conduct graunted to the Bohemians by the Councell of Basil. But the Tridentine Fathers would none of that refusing to admit of any to haue decisiue voices but only the Catholike Diuines Thirdly the Huguenots had good cause to suspect the safe conduct for Iohn Hus had also a safe conduct from the Emperour Sigismund to come to the Councell of Constance and yet comming thither was there burnt To the third Obiection viz That the Apostle commands vs to trie the Spirits whether they be of God or no he answers That the Apostle there speakes not of such things as be already certaine and defined in the Church but of matters rather vp-start ambiguous as are those of our trecherous Aduersaries Soft and faire not too fast there is no man affirms that we must try a thing that is certaine but that we are not to settle our beleef vpon it without proofs that it is certain For a thing may be certaine in it selfe neuerthelesse if it does not appeare to be certaine vnto vs we may well make triall of it for that without trying we cannot vnderstand the certaintie But it is saith he lawfull to try the Huguenots opinions because they be new and ambiguous If then it be lawfull to try the new t is also lawfull say I to try the old for two opposite Opinions are Relatiues so that we cannot make demonstration that the new are false but we must proue withall that the old are true And as for the ambiguitie of the Hugnenots doctrine if it be ambiguous then is it not certainly false and if their doctrine be not certainly false then is not the Catholikes certainly true and consequently euen by the iudgement of our Aduersarie himselfe it is lawfull to trie it But let vs now examine his reasons vpon which he concludes that it is not lawfull to try the Spirits of the Councell First saith he if we ought to try them all then were it lawfull to try the Spirits of the Councell of Nice Constantinople Ephesus Chalcedon Whereupon it must follow that we ought to discusse againe the wicked heresies of Arrius Macedonius Nestorius and Eutiches and examine againe the sacred Scriptures themselues the Oracles of the Prophets the History of Moses and finally the holy Gospell At length he concludes That if things which be determined by the holy Councels ought to be held for certaine there is no reason to suffer the Decrees of the Councell of Trent to be called againe into question I answer That we ought to hold the Decrees of the former Councels for most certaine and yet is it lawfull neuerthelesse to make question of the determinations of the Councell of Trent to which purpose diuers reasons might be alledged how be it this one may suffice for the present For that in euery Councell we ought to deliberate and measure things before we iudge and after this the iudgement of a Councell which hath duly examined and iudged according to the right measure ought not to be called againe in question But to know now whether a man hath truly measured we must take consideration of the size and manner of measuring by it Now will the Huguenots say that the Rule which the Conncell of Nice did measure by was only the Scripture or the written Word as the words of Constantine doe testifie which be these All seditious contention set aside let vs discusse the things in controuersie by the testimonie of the Scriptures diuinely inspired The manner of measuring then was to apply the Doctrine to the said Rule or Scripture and accordingly to receiue or reiect it as it was conformable or varying to or from the said Rule But now hath the Councell of Trent will
the reporters credit vnlesse he be confident withall that he who reported this would not report an vntruth and that he durst trust him in any thing But France now does not beleeue the Councell of Trent in all things for our Aduersarie himselfe confesses that it refused the Decrees of the Councel which touched vpon Reformation Wherupon it follows that though France doth agree in opinion with the Councel in what it decreed concerning matters of Faith yet does it not hold this opinion for any regard to the Councels authority but for some other respect else might he conclude as well That the Huguenots do receiue the said Councell for that they beleeue diuers Articles of it which are against the Anabaptists and other Heretikes of our time For euen as they refuse the authority of the said Councell in that very same part whereof they receiue the Articles so may we as well refuse the whole Councell and yet receiue all the Articles there being the same respect from the Articles of one part to the authority of the same part as from the authority of the whole to the authoritie of the whole But let vs now marke how he concludes that this Councell is receiued in France Our Aduersaries owne selfe confesseth saith hee That this Councell is receiued by the Bishops but what man can perswade himselfe that the Bishops haue another faith and religion from that professed by the King and all the Catholike people For how may the King bee styled The most Christian if hee were of a Faith singular from the Bishops And how should the people bee called The Lords Flocke vnlesse they acknowledged some Pastors See then this in briefe is his Argument The Bishops haue receiued the Councell The King and the people haue beleeued the Bishops Ergo The Councell hath beene receiued by the King the Bishops the Clergie and likewise of all the people of France I haue shewen already how he hath not made it good as yet that the Bishops which then were haue receiued it and for the Bishops and Clergie at this day though diuers of them for the aduancement of the Holy League haue endeauoured to cause the said Councell to bee receiued yet might the King and the people refuse it notwithstanding and yet not cease for all that to bee of the same faith with them in so much as the approbation of that Councell is not an Article of faith for the Councell of Ephesus hath expresly prohibited vs the addition of any other Article of faith vnto those which were then receiued in which number the receiuing of the Tridentine Councell is not But supposing that they were not of the same faith what danger could come of it The King saith he should not then bee most Christian nor the people Christ his flocke First as for the King for as much as this reason is drawne from his Title I say that if the King were the greatest Heretike in the world yet should hee not bee depriued of his Title Henry the eight King of England receiued the Title of Defender of the faith from Pope Leo the tenth for writing against Luther King Edward the sixt and the last Queene of famous memory and the now raigning KING who haue changed the Religion for defending of which King Henry receiued this Title doe still keep the same Style And by very good right too for Titles though personall and proper only to the first of the Race that receiue them as Catholike to Ferdinando King of Arragon Defender of the faith to Henry the eight King of England yet doe they descend vnto their successors as ornaments onely annexed to their State So that it is not Philip of Austria who is Catholike in that sense but the King of Spaine For if wee consider of Kings onely in point of Religion the King of France may be as good a Catholike as the King of Spaine and the King of Spaine as good a Christian as the King of France and yet the Title of Christian belongs onely vnto the one and the Title of Catholike to the other But aboue all is this reason ill applied against the King of France for that Christian is not a title to distinguish one Christian from another but to distinguish them all from Pagans and in this sense is it giuen to the King of France as to the first King of Europe that abolished Paganisme and who still had the most warres of all with the Sarazens enemies of the name of Christ. True it is that this title might incline him the more to imbrace that doctrine which is best but for that it hath not beene hitherto agreed vpon which of the two is the best wee must not proue one doubt by another For the Huguenots may as well conuert this reason to perswade the King to reforme the Church as the Catholikes vse it to incline him to maintaine the Romish Religion howbeit there is not any thing that the King can doe more worthy of this Title of his then to doe both that is to say to maintaine the Romane Church and to reforme it Neither is there any contradiction in these two seeing there is no better meanes to make the Iron endure long then to scowre away the rust nor to maintaine the Church of Rome then to reforme the abuses of it Neuerthelesse to establish such a course that any of the Iron bee not scraped away in stead of the rust and yet see that it bee bright scowred there is no safer meanes then to doe quite contrary to that which our Aduersay aduiseth viz. To let their Councell of Trent sleep and to call another wherein both parts may haue indifferent hearing by which meanes if so bee that there bee any corruption in the Church of Rome it may bee seene into and purged And if there be any error in the doctrine of the Huguenots they may bee evicted and instructed in a better faith And this were the way to reunite vs all in one faith and this would bee an act indeede well worthy a most Christian King 3 But descend wee now to the people How should they saith he bee the sheepe of Christs flocke if so bee they acknowledg not any Pastors I answer That they may well enough acknowledge their Pastors though they beleeue not iust as the Pastors of their Countrey doe For that no man is obliged to build his faith but vpon an infallible foundation and it is confessed by the Catholikes themselues that all the Bishops in a whole countrey may erre in point of faith So that the people are not alwaies obliged to ground their faith vpon that of their Bishops and consequently may bee of another faith and yet bee of the flocke of Iesus Christ As in very troath our Sauiour does not call them his Sheep which heard the Bishops but those that heare his voyce which is the word of God Let vs now looke vpon his conclusion And so saith hee is the Councell honoured of the
Catholikes and Huguenots thus farre forth agree in Doctrine that they are both of the same Faith and Religion IT is most cleare that men of the same Church and Religion may differ neuerthelesse about some opinions in Diuinitie Austen accords not to Hierome nor Epiphanius to Chrysostome nor Cyprian to Cornelius nor Irenaeus to Victor and questionlesse one of them was in the errour yet were they all Doctors approued by the Church and Saints euery one of them Euery errour doth not separate a man from the Church nor should we regard so much the number as the qualitie of them Arrius accorded with the Catholikes in all points but one insomuch as the change of a word yea of one bare letter would haue compounded the controuersie and yet was he the greatest Heretike that euer the Church was troubled with Origen on the other side dissented in infinite Tenents from the other old Doctors and was yet neuerthelesse esteemed a member of the Church To see then whether the Huguenots be of another Religion than wee neither their errors nor their numbers is the thing which is so much to be regarded but the nature of them only is it That is to say what Errors are to be reputed for Heresies and whether theirs be of that nature There be two things which according to the opinion of the Catholikes make Errors to proue Heresies The one when the Errour is of it selfe so enormous that he is at all times an Heretike that holds it So that euen before the Nicene Councell had decided it Ebion Paulus Samosetanus and Arrius stood then as Heretikes for that they denied the eternall Diuinitie of the Sonne of God The second thing which according to our opinion makes an Errour to become an Heresie is when any man maintains an opinion in point of Doctrine contrary to the Decrees of a Generall Councell So then the Heresie lies not so much in the mischieuousnesse of the opinion as in the resistance made against the ordinance of the Church For example The opinion of S. Cyprian touching Rebaptization was not Heresie in him because there was not as then any Decree of Councell made against it But since that say we this opinion is condemned legally it were flat Heresie in any other that should hold it Of this second Species of Heresie I will intreat in my third Chapter In this only of the former which is Whether the errors of the Huguenots be in themselues so enormous that they destroy the very foundation of Faith and by consequence keepe them off from being of the same Religion with vs. Let vs see then how our Antagonist takes vpon him to proue the contrary In the first place saith he both parties as well the Catholikes as their Aduersaries repute one another for Heretikes I answer that I finde no impossibilitie why they may not be both deceiued For two brothers being in choler may well renounce one another and yet they leaue not for all that to continue true brothers alwaies Cyrill and Theodoret accused one another for Heretiques and yet neither of them was so So that this reason is only drawne from the passion of men when Reason hath abandoned them But how doth he proue that the Catholikes repute the Huguenots for Heretikes The Catholike Church saith he hath by the Councell of Trent condemned diuers of the Lutheran opinions I answer according to my first distinction that it is one thing to returne an opinion for an heresie by condemnation and another thing to repute it so of its owne nature Now whether or no the Huguenots be hereticks by condemnation we will argue it hereafter in our third fourth and fifth Chapters But here we dispute only of the nature of their errour wherein his proofes are nothing to his purpose But saith he At Rome euerie holy Thursday the Pope pronounces them excommunicate and prohibits all Chatholikes to reade their Bookes In like manner the same day also he excommunicats all sinners of whom hee dares not denie but that many are of the Church else should he himselfe be condemned for an hereticke by the Councell of Constance which gaue sentence against Iohn Huz That the Church consists as well of the bad as of the good And whereas the Huguenots Bookes be prohibited so are also the Bookes of Machiauel Aretine and diuers other Catholikes Let vs next see the opinion which the Huguenots haue of the Catholike Doctrine Caluine saith he writes that the principall points of Doctrine in the Church of Rome are almost vtterly abolished and the right vse of the Sacraments in many fashions corrupted He needs but little explication the words themselues answer him Caluin saies not that the Sacraments are vtterly taken away but the right vse of them many waies corrupted Nor that the principall points of Religion are vtterly destroied but almost abolished A man may be almost kild and yet liue Secondly to proue how their Religion differs from ours he produces the controuersies of Originall sinne Free-will Iustification Merits and diuers others which he iudges of most consequence It is the greatest pittie in the world to heare how the most of the Preachers in both Religions commonly fight with their owne shadowes not vnderstanding what it is that their aduersarie holds which comes only of the subtleties of words inuented by the Deuill to disturbe the Peace of the Church One partie vnderstanding the word Iustification in one sense and another in another one Faith one way and another in another one Grace in one fashion another after another and so of the rest that which we say being true in our acception of the word and that which they say being likewise true as they take it So that if the desire of contention were once taken away we should soone finde that the most of these disputes wherewith peoples eares are filled are onely the subtelties of the Schoole vpon the Etimologies and Definitions of words only Whence it came to passe that in the conference at Regenspurg the Catholikes and the Protestants fell to some agreement in the question of Originall sinne of Predestination Free-will and diuers other points which is also confessed by Bishop Lindanus one of the tartest enemies that the Huguenots euer had Neueâ—thelesse the Authour of this answer is so ill aduised as to chuse out these questions principally to shew the differences betweene them and vs. For mine owne part I will not take vpon me to reconcile the said questions neither know I well to confesse mine owne ignorance freely whether it be possible to be done or no only thus much I assure my selfe that the difference is not so great as it is iudged to be Nor will I too exactly search out the point in controuersie because I well hope some other man may more happily performe it hereafter Only I will discourse vpon the said questions as they are commonly vnderstood by the best Doctors in each Religion In which sense I
but a wrangling about the word as I haue shewed before when I discourst of the number of the Sacraments As for the parts Namely Contrition Confession and Satisfaction if that he blames the Huguenots for not holding them properly parts thereof I answer him That neither doe all Catholikes hold them so For Durandus makes but two parts Confession and Absolution and Scotus saies that there is but one which is Absolution But if the question be whether these three things be requisite or not the Huguenots will also say that they are to wit that it is necessary for a Penitent to haue Contrition and sorrow of heart to confesse and acknowledge our sins vnto God nay and that it is profitable also to confesse them to the Pastors of the Church but not so absolutely necessarie because according to the iudgment of the learned Catholikes this Auricular Confession was neuer instituted by God nor yet of a long time practised in the Church as Beatus Rhenanus who was himselfe a Catholike hath very well obserued Finally as for Satisfaction it is to be considered either in this life or in the life to come in Purgatory That in this life the Huguenots approue of and teach it to bee most necessary to Saluation to giue satisfaction to men whom we haue any way offended and in regard of our sins against God to walke in newnesse of life Moreouer they confesse that God punisheth men in this life by temporall afflictions yea euen those whose sins are pardoned T is true indeed that they deny any satisfaction or punishment to be in Purgatory after death for sinne but herein their error cannot be great first because S. Austen puts it down no otherwise than as a thing probable and not necessary saying no more but It may be that it is true And secondly because that neither can the Catholikes agree vpon it amongst themselues some of them placing Pargatory here vpon earth others vnder it some neither aboue nor below but in the Aire Some affirme that all the Elect shall goe thither yea the Apostles and Martyrs themselues others thrust in those only who haue not in this life giuen full satisfactiō for their sins And for the fire some would haue it a Materiall fire some fire and water others neither of both Lastly some there be that teach that the soules are there tormented by Deuils others by Angels others by neither of both How then I pray is this questiō likely to be so necessary about which there is so much vncertainty that we neither know as I haue shewed who they be that goe thither nor where it is nor by whom they are to be tormented nor what they are to suffer The difference then betwixt the Catholikes and the Huguenots is but this That the Huguenots beleeue it not at all and the Catholikes know not what they beleeue See here in briefe the Huguenots opinions vpon the points before mentioned by which we may perceiue their errours not to be in the substance of Faith and doe not therefore hinder them from being of the Church and Catholike Religion For euery errour in Theologie doth not separate a man from the Church S. Cyprian was an Anabaptist in the point of Rebaptization and yet was he a Martyr S. Hierome as I said before held those bookes of Scripture for Apocryphall which the Councell of Trent hath since concluded to be Canonicall and yet remaines hee still Canonized for a Saint Tertullian one of the ancient Fathers fell to be a Montanist And Origen alone held as many errours as all the Huguenots together yet was he one of the most famous Doctors of the whole Church And to come neerer to our times In how many questions of Diuinitie did Scotus and Thomas Aquinas differ the two prime pillars of Schoole-Diuinitie Melchior Canus and Bellarmine accuse Caietane of diuers errors who for all that remaines one of the venerable Colledge of Cardinals The Dominicans and Franciscans could neuer yet agree about our Ladies conception yet be both of them held for very good Catholikes So that as I said the Huguenots may very safely be accounted good Catholikes so long as they hold the foundation of Diuinitie although they put some few tyles out of order on the roofe of the house and build with hay and straw vpon condition still that as S. Paul saith it be vpon the same foundation Otherwise we must conclude the Martyrs the Saints the ancient Fathers the Doctors of the Church the prime Schoolemen the Cardinals yea and the Catholikes themselues to be no Catholikes CAP. 2. 〈…〉 Catholikes as well as the Huguenots doe not agree with the ancient Church in matter of Ceremonies and that therefore the Huguenots are not to be condemned AS in men we consider their bodies and their apparell so in the Church likewise we consider the Doctrine and the Ceremonies As for the doctrine or body of Religion I haue showne in the former Chapter that the Huguenots haue the braine the heart and the liuer and all other the vitall parts whole and sound that is that they yet hold all the principall points of faith and that the maine thing that can seeme to be blamed in them is that they haue some certaine warts or spots in their skinne certaine errors I meane in the circumstances and application of that faith Now for the apparell and ceremony of Religion I confesse that the Church of the Huguenots is not so gorgeously or richly set out as the Church of Rome and is for the same cause not so well entertained and more despised in the Courts of great Princes and Monarches of the world which I iudge to be the reason why the Catholike Apology endeuoured to excuse the simple and naked Ceremonies of the Reformed Church without any intent thereby to disparage the gorgeous and gay attire of the Catholike Church but to shew onely That wee should not so meanly esteeme this outward simplicity as to condemne it without hearing Euen as that officer would bee held too rigide and seuere that would hinder a poore man from presenting his Petition to the Prince because hee is not clad like a Courtier The reason for which the Apology doth excuse them is for that the ancient Church did sometimes heretofore content her selfe with the like simplicity Now vpon this occasion the Author of the answer perswades himselfe that he hath gotten a great aduantage vpon the Catholike Apology Because saith he he can proue that diuers of these ceremonies which the Huguenots doe reiect are very ancient To which I answer That I willingly accept as much as hee grants that is that he cannot proue that all the ceremonies of the Church of Rome be most ancient but onely as he saith diuers of them As for those diuers which hee instanceth in that you may see how impertinent they are I will make it appeare in these two things First that he doth not proue against the Huguenots that the Church
of ancient Heretikes which hath beene heretofore condemned For the first The chiefe Controuersie is saith hee about the Sacrament of the Lords Supper which is not onely determined by the Councell of Trent but also by tenne most ancient councels of the Church To make good which assertion he cites the Councell of Vercelles Tours Vienna Constance Florence and of fiue others celebrated at Rome the chiefe of which was that of Lateran vnder Innocent the third And these be the tenne Councels which our Aduersary styles the most ancient Councells of the Church Certainely then was the Church a long time without Councels for the ancientest of these was 1000 yeares after the Apostles times But peraduenture he meanes it onely of the Church of Rome as it is different in doctrine from the ancient Church which is as much to say As thâ—se Councells are the most ancient of this Romane Church which not long before the celebrating of these Councells became a new Church and quite contrary to the former And in this sense hee doth not account these Councells as simply ancient but the most ancient onely of that Church which is not ancient I can but wonder how he comes so ill aduised as to giue this aduantage to the Huguenots as to conclude vpon him out of his owne premises That our holy mother Church of Rome is a new Church and so giue a hint to the vulgar to discouer by his owne confession that it is so indeed Which inconuenience the Author of the Catholike Apologie was better aware off to preuent it for knowing very well that we are not able to make good the doctrine of the Romane Church by the ancient Councells he aduiseth rather that wee should labour the calling of a new one lest that by vrging the other which indeed bee not ancient the common people might come by this meanes to suspect that our doctrine is new But to returne to the said Councells besides this that they are all new there be also seuen of the tenne which were neuer receiued for generall by the most learned defenders of the Romane religion and by the opinion therefore of those very Catholikes they may erre and by consequence it will bee lawfull to appeale from them to a generall Councell Iust as the opinion of S. Cyprian about Rebaptization being condâ—mned at Rome in a particular Councell by Pope Cornelius and the sentence ratified by Pope Stephan yet did S. Cyprian neuerthelesse continue in his former opinion accusing both the Popes and the Councels of errour which certainely hee would not haue done had hee esteemed the authority of a particular Councell without appeale whereby it appeares that of those tenne Councells which hee vrgeth theâ—e be but three namely that of Lateran of Vienna and of Florence which be esteemed generall euen by the Catholikes themselues and so by consequence onely three which haue power definitiuely to determine and not to bee subiect to an appeale to bee made from them As for the Decree of that Councell of Lateran wee ought not to thinke it strange that the Huguenots except against it seeing that the said Councell in the iudgement euen of the Catholikes themselues might erre in the sentence giuen against them for Scotus saith of Transubstantiation That it is but an opinion probable now an opinion probable is not necessary and in determining vpon a doctrine which is not necessary Stapleton saith That a generall Councell may erre whereby it appeares that in the Doctrine of Transubstantiation the Decree of the Councell aforesaid was not certaine Can wee imagine then that the Huguenots will stand to such a Decree which the Catholikes themselues confesse to bee subiect to errour As for the Councell of Vienna this errour saith hee is condemned in it which is That wee ought not to doe any honour or reuerence to the holy Eucharist which as euery man knowes is the errour of Caluin and of all the Sacramentaries I answer That our Aduersary and such as hee doe much iniury the church of Rome in giuing the Huguenots occasion to reproach the Catholikes as to twit them that they bee lyers and slanderers For they of the Religion doe not affirme as hee would make them that wee ought not to giue any honour or reuerence to the Eucharist but that wee should not adore it as the Catholikes doe The last Councell is that of Florence the authority wherof the Huguenots may well except against for that 〈◊〉 dissents from other Councells For the Councells of Bâ—sil and Constance both which our Aduersary rankes here amongst the generall Councels haue adiudged it That the authoritie of a Councell is aboue the Pope whereas the Councell of Florence makes the Pope aboue the Councell Which sentence is not only as I thinke contrary to the Councell of Basil and Constance but contradictory also to the iudgement of all the Diuines in Paris at that time So that if the Huguenots doe ill in dissenting from the Councell of Florence they doe it by the example of Catholike Diuines and of other Councels yea of those which are generall by the iudgement euen of our Aduersary himselfe The second doctrine which he instances in is that of Free-will for denying of which the Manichees and other Heretikes stand condemned by S. Augustine S. Hierome S. Leo c. Now I answer That the Huguenots deny it not in the same manner that those Heretikes did as is to be well seene in the doctrine of the Manichees who made two necessary Principles the one of Good and the other of Euill and as absolutely denied Freewill as well of doing ill as of doing good But when he can shew that the Huguenots hold any such opinion his examples will serue to some purpose Further he confirmes the said opinion by foure other Councels viz by a particular one held in France and by those of Auranches Sens and Constance I answer that it were but an easie matter so to interpret the said Councels as that the Huguenots need not refuse them in this point of Free-will But for breuities sake I will not stand to examine them because that three of them be particular and for that respect may erre as I haue shewn before and may be appealed from and for the fourth which is that of Constance though it be called generall by our Aduersarie yet Bellarmine neuerthelesse receiues but 18. Councels for generall and lawfull of which ranke this of Constance is none The third heresie that he speakes of is That the Huguenots hold that little Children dying without Baptisme doe not perish which that they doe is plaine enough saith he And how namely by so many testimonies of Scripture by so many Decrees of ancient Councels by so many resolutions of holy Fathers And yet does he alledge but two passages only out of S. Austen who indeed as he was of this opinion That Children could not be saued without Baptisme so held he likewise That they
King the Bishops the Clergie and likewise of all the people of France Admit it were so yet for all this does it not follow that it is receiued in France vnlesse hee can shew withall that all the Estates doe receiue it that is The Church the Nobility and the People But hee makes no mention of the Nobility but onely of the Church and the third Estate so that at the most it is receiued but of two of the three Estates which may be the cause that our Aduersary to keep vp the number diuides the Church into two parts viz. Bishops and Clergie The Councell saith hee is receiued of the Bishops the Clergie and likewise of all the people of France Which is a new diuision of the Estates neuer as I perswade my selfe heard of before Iudge then what iust occasion the Nobilitie of France now haue to reiect this Councell when as those who would haue the Councell receiued doe reiect the Nobility CAP. 6. That the Huguenots may very rightly bee accounted members of the Catholike Apostolike and Romane Church THis Chapter at the first blush seemes to treat of the same Argument that the first does for hauing there proued it That the Huguenots are of the same religion with vs Catholikes it may follow also that they bee of the same Church too And yet to my thinking these two Chapters may very well bee parted not so much in regard of the difference of the nature of the subiect as of the humours of the persons For commonly when a Huguenot would draw a Catholike to his opinion he begins euermore with the particular Controuersies and so vpon the purity of his doctrine hee inferres the verity of his Church A Catholike on the other side when hee would winne a Huguenot beginnes still with the Church and so by the verity of the Church concludes the purity of his doctrine and commonly when either of them gets the other out of this tracke they are to seeke which is one of the reasons that they cannot satisfie the aduerse partie For he that would perswade another must not begin with that principle which to him seemes best though indeed it be so but with that which seemes best in his opinion whom hee desires to perswade otherwise hee shall but lose his labour For when a Huguenot shall haue vrged a thousand passages of holy Scripture to proue the truth of his owne particular assertion hee shall not bee a whit the nearer and why For that a Catholike will say instantly with himselfe What though I cannot answer him yet another may and if I am to beleeue nothing which I am not able to maintaine by disputation then should I not beleeue the proceeding of the holy Ghost the vnion of both Natures in Iesus Christ the mysteries of the holy Trinity all which I haue beleeued without being able to maintain them or so much as vnderstand them And euen so the authority of the same Church which makes mee beleeue these mysteries without being able to maintaine them makes me also to beleeue the holy sacrament of the Altar Purgatory c. without being able to maintaine them So that if a Hugu proceeds no further does not shew a reason how a man may be assured of these mysteries without the Churches authority or else which I hold more reasonable why wee ought wholly to relye vpon the authority of the Church in one point and not in another hee shall neuer say ought to the purpose Nor can the Catholikes haue any happier success in their perswasiues for when they talke to the Huguenots of the Church how the Church saies this and the Church saies that and the Church cannot erre They who are not brought vp to such kinde of phrases and who found their faith vpon this perswasion That the Scripture is cleere on their sides What care wee will they say what the Church saith so long as wee agree in opinion with the word of God So that a Catholike shall neuer bee able to perswade them to any thing if hee beginnes not at their foundation and proue that the Scripture makes not so clearely for them as they imagine it does and then when they once perceiue that they cannot confute the Catholikes by Scripture they will bee compelld to confesse That a man can haue no assurance of his faith without submitting his own iudgment to the iudgment of the Church which as wee say according to Christs owne promise is infallibly accompanied with the holy Spirit For mine own part although it bee not my intention to entice any man either to one Religion or the other but to qualifie onely the passions of men yet for feare that I should commit the same errour in this Treatise of Pacification which they often doe in the course of their perswasiues I thoght good to subioine this Chapter also to the end that my reasons might be drawne from the principles of both Religions And thus hauing proued in the first Chapter by examination of the particular questions according to the Huguenots method That they be no Heretikes I was also desirous to adde this Chapter that according to the Catholikes manner of proceeding that is as much to say as according to the Nature of the Church I might also proue them the Huguenots to be no Heretikes For it were but labour lost to tell many of our Catholikes that the Huguenots hold many of the fundamentall points of faith as well as we seeing they take not the skantling of an heretike by his opinions but only by this marke That he is out of the Church vnderstanding thereby no other Church then that which we call Catholike Apostolike and Romane excluding all those out of the Church to whom these three titles may not be giuen what opinion soeuer they be of For which reason I resolued to proue that these three titles doe belong vnto the Huguenots And first touching the title of Catholike the Church is called Catholike in three respects First in regard of it selfe 2. In regard of the Iewes 3. In regard of Heretikes Now the Church is called Catholike in regard of it selfe because in the vniuersalitie thereof it comprehends all times and all places viz the whole number of the Elect as well those who haue beene since the beginning of the world and are now departed and triumphant in heauen enioying euerlasting blisse as those that are ordained to the like blessednesse whether now aliue or to be borne hereafter Which definition is founded vpon the Scriptures for S. Pauls words are The Church of the first-borne which are written in Heauen and who are written in heauen but the Elect from whom the reprobates are in this specialty distinguished That their names are not written in the Booke of the Lambe The Church then consists of the Elect who are not restrained to any place or time For Iesus Christ hath redeemed with his bloud saith Saint Iohn Out of euery kinred and tongue and people
from an Heretike in another signification which in truth was according to the proper interpretation of the word taking Catholike or Vniuersall for a marke of the true Church For which reason in the ancient Church when as the whole visible Church yet retained the faith receiued from the Apostles and that some part of it became corrupted for the exact discerning vnto whether side we ought to leane Vincentius Lyrinensis gaue this Rule What else should we doe saith he but prefer the safety of the body before a rotten member And therefore for that the body of the Church was at that time sound all the Church was called Catholike for so much this word Body as well as that word Catholike implies an vniuersality so that the distinction of Catholike and Heretike serues but to distinguish the sound body from a corrupted member But so soone as the body it selfe became corrupted then this rule and distinction failed For which reason Vincentius makes a difference betweene a Catholike in place and a Catholike in time And euer when a Catholike in place is not a sure marke he hath recourse vnto a Catholike in time But saith he if any new infection goes on not onely to corrupt a part but the whole Church then must we cleaue to antiquity So that the difference between the Catholikes and the Huguenots lying in this point Whether the body of the Church be corrupted or no wee must not speake of the Church which is Catholike according to place but according to time And that Church is Catholike saith Vincentius which holds that religion which hath beene euer hitherto embraced And to discerne which Religion hath beene alwayes embraced when as the body of the Church or the visible Church as saith the same Vincentius is corrupted we must still haue recourse vnto Antiquity and say with Tertullian Illudverum quod primum That is truest which is ancientest So as that is the Catholike Church which agrees in faith with the more Primitiue Church So that if wee would discusse it whether the Catholikes or the Huguenots be most properly the right Catholikes wee must consider first whether of them best holds of the faith of the Apostles and next of that of the ancient Doctors and Councels of the Church As for the Title Apostolike The Church may bee called Apostolike as well in regard of the Writings as of the Preaching of the Apostles As for their Writings those Churches which imbrace the doctrine deliuered in them are intituled Apostolike yea and more or lesse Apostolike as they do more or lesse agree or disagree to or from the said doctrine So that the word Apostolike is all one with the word Orthodox or with Catholike taken in the last signification And if the Church of the Huguenots may bee intituled Catholike or Orthodox they may also by the same reason be called Apostolike nay and more properly Apostolike then Catholike For the visible Church being as I haue shewed not absolutely but comparatiuely more or lesse Catholike or Apostolike the Huguenots though they may offend in default and so be lesse Catholike rather yet in this they offend rather in the excesse and are too Apostolike as being so strict that they will readily beleeue nothing but what the Apostles haue written Secondly those Churches were called Apostolike which were instructed by the liuely voice of the Apostles and where the Apostles haue had their seats as Ierusalem Antioch Ephesus Alexandria c. where the Apostles Peter Iames Iohn and Marke the Euangelist sate and are therefore from all Antiquity styled Apostolicall Seaes as well as Rome howbeit that this signification is rather an ornament then a mark of a pure Church For Antioch Alexandria and other Churches of Greece where the Apostles preached haue either altogether forsaken the name of Christ or are at the least according to the Catholikes Tenet quite cut off for Schisme and Heresie from the communion of the true Church and France Spaine Poland Germany England and Denmarke where the Apostles neuer had any Bishopricks haue sithence beene the true Churches So that in this signification a Church may bee pure and yet not bee Apostolike and a Church which is Apostolike may be impure The last title though first in estimation with the Catholiques is that of Roman which I haue obserued to haue beene taken in three seuerall sorts First the Roman Church is only taken for the Diocesse of Rome and was in the beginning for the Citie of Rome alone As in S. Pauls time who inscribed an Epistle seuerally to Rome alone as he did likewise to those Churches of Corinth Ephesus Galatia c. For had the Church of Rome beene euery where at that time spread abroad he had not needed to haue written to other Churches seuerally because that in writing to that of Rome he had then written to them all And yet would our people needs make vse of this Epistle to proue by it The Roman church to be the catholique Church because that in it S. Paul saies Your faith is spread abroad in all the world as if S. Paul had not said the same to the Church of Thessalonica Your faith which you haue to God-ward is spread abroad But had the Church of Rome beene as they would haue it esteemed by S. Paul as all one with the Catholique without all doubt his Epistle to the Romans had beene intituled Catholique as well as those of S. Iohn S. Peter S. Iames and S. Iude which are therefore stiled Catholique for that they were written to the Catholique Church Now taking the Roman Church in this signification I confes that not the Huguenots Churches alone are separated from the Roman Church but all other catholique Churches besides so that to this day they in France make a distinction of sundry customes of the Roman Church and of the Church Gallicane Secondly the Church of Rome is taken for the Westerne Church insomuch that the Roman Latine and Occidental Church doth signifie one and the same thing to distinguish it from the Greeke and Easterne Church iust as the Empire of the East and the Empire of the West were called the Empires of Rome and of Constantinople because that these two Cities were the chiefe seats of the Empire and so by reason of the dignitie of the Citie of Rome which was the seat of the Emperours that reigned in the West all this Westerne part was called the Roman Empire and all the Westerne Church the Roman Church that is to say The Church contained vnder the Roman Empire So then if we call it the Roman Church for distinguishing it from the Greeke and Easterne Churches then also may the Huguenots Churches be members likewise of the Roman Church for that they be Westerne and not Greeke nor Easterne Churches If in respect of the Roman Empire taking the Roman Empire largely as it was they also be vnder the Empire and by consequence vnder the Church But
taking the Empire as it now is then may the Churches of Germanie some of which haue shak't off the Popes authoritie be more properly stiled members of the Roman Church than Rome it selfe insomuch as Germanie and not Rome is at this day called the Roman Empire Lastly the Roman Church is vnderstood for all those that doe in Faith communicate with the Church of Rome that is to say those that be of the Romish Religion I demand then their meaning whether they vnderstand by the Romish Religion those points in which the Huguenots doe agree with vs or those wherein they disagree from vs or both the one and the other If those points wherein they agree with vs then they are directly of the Roman faith If for the points only wherein they dissent then are the beleefe in the Trinitie and all the Articles of the three Creeds of the Apostles of Nice and of Athanasius wherein they doe agree no Articles of the Romish Religion But if they take the Roman Religion for all the points of it together both for those wherein they doe agree and all the other too I demand once againe whether so exact an agreement in all points be required or not And if not then seeing that the points whereupon the Huguenots be agreed with the Catholikes be for number more and for importance greater than those questions are vpon which they disagree they may yet neuerthelesse be reputed to be of the Roman Church and Faith forasmuch as things for the most part take their Denomination from the better part Euen as we vse to say those people are of a sanguine coÌ„plexion in whom bloud is predominant although their temper be of other humours too But if we affirme that no man can be of this Church vnlesse he beleeues all and the selfe-same that the Church of Rome doth then say I that whilest we goe about to proue that the Huguenots be not of our Church we shall shew withal that we haue not any one man who is absolutely of the Church insomuch as that there is no one man learned or vnlearned that beleeues all iust as the Church doth For it is the credit of our Doctors to maintaine singular opinions by themselues which may be the reason why Bellarmine the greatest Aduersarie to the Huguenots accuses all the Catholikes that euer were before him of Error and those especially which haue written against the Huguenots as Genebrard Pighius Eckius Hosius Canus Caietane Scotus Durand S. Bonauenture S. Thomas S. Damascene for he spares not the Saints neither the like courtesie also shewes he to the Ancient Fathers S. Augustine S. Bernard S. Chrysostome and much adoe he hath to let S. Paul alone So that amongst so many dissentions either hath the Church beleeued nothing at all or else hath the Church beleeued them altogether that is to say contradictions or else that the Church hath beleeued but only some of them and perchance they haue all beleeued contrary to what the Church beleeueth Come we now to the common people and they vnderstand not the one halfe part of that which we teach them and when wee tell them of such points of Diuinitie wherein they were neuer brought vp their fancies framing Idea's vnto themselues vpon what they heare make them conceiue Chimaera's in their braines and to beleeue the quite contrary to what the Church doth before they are well aware of it But our Catholikes now haue found out a remedie for that which is That an implicite Faith is enough for the common people which is as much to say as to thinke only to beleeue only as the Church doth though they doe not so indeed So then seeing that an implicite Faith is To beleeue the contrary and yet thinke they beleeue the same if we could but once perswade the Huguenots that they doe verily beleeue as our Church of Rome doth in euery thing although indeed they doe not they shall be of our Church See then if I haue not taken a better method to conuert them than any other Catholikes haue yet light vpon They labour to conuert them to our Explicite faith which were to make them beleeue all the particulars of our Faith And I perceiuing them altogether vncapable of this Explicite Faith haue endeuoured my selfe to make them embrace the Implicite Faith which is much the easier of the two and to perswade them to beleeue that they doe already beleeue as our Church beleeueth and consequently that their Faith is the same and their Church the same That so by this perswasion they may proue if not so good Catholiques as the Priests yet at least as good Catholiques as the people But to returne againe to my purpose it appeares by what hath beene said that if we stand for so strict an vnion in euery point then will not the Catholiques themselues neither learned nor vnlearned be of the Roman Church Forasmuch as the learned will not beleeue as the rest doe and the vnlearned cannot And would we content our selues with an essentiall vnion the Huguenots may then well be of it Whereupon it followes that we must needs yeeld to one of these That either the Huguenots are of the Roman Church or else that the Catholikes are not FINIS Errata in some Copies Pag. 54. l. 5. for Authoritie in the first place reade Articles End Henry 3. Henry 4. a Henry 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The first Reason Pag. 20. Pag. 21. Pag. 21. Pag. 21. The second Reason Lindanus in prefat in Lib. de querela pacis Scripture Pag. 23. Tom. 1. Contr. 1. l. cap. 4. Iustification Free-will Pag. 24. The Coniunction of Faith Grace p. 23. Merit of Workes Serm. 1. de anuntiatione Beatae Virginis Prayer Pag. 26. Tom. 1. Contr. 6. lib. 3. cap. 15. The Sacraments and their number Pag. 25. The difference betwixt our Sacraments and those of the old Law Pag. 26. Tom. 2. contr 1. lib. 2. cap. 1. The efficacie of Baptisme Pag. 23. Of Infants dying without Baptisme The Baptisme of Iohn Transubstantiation Pag. 26. Theod. Dialog Gelasius lib. de duabus naturis The Sacrifice of the Masse Pag. 26. Heb. 7. 10. Thomas part quest 83. Artic. 1. Aug. ad Bonifacium epist. 23. Penance Pag 26. In Annotat. ad lib. Tertull. de poenitent a. Purgatorie Pag 26. Lib. 21. de Civ Dei cap. 26. That the Church of Rome agrees not with the Primitiue Church in matter of ceremonies Signe of the Crosse. Pag. 27. Praying towards the East Pag. 28. Lib. 5. cap. 21. Inuocation of the Eucharist Blessing of the water in Baptisme Pag. 28. Homil. 25. in Iohan. Consecration and vse of Oyle in Baptisme Pag 28. Tertull lib. de corona militis Lent Epiphan haerest 75. Hieronim contra Lucif Sacrifice for the dead Baptisme of infants Mixture of water with the wine in the Chalice Perpetuall single life Solitary life Sozomen Histor. lib. 1. cap. 12. Orders of Monkes Athanasius ad Dracontium Election of Meates Tripartite 9. 38. Holy-daies Lib. 5. cap. 21. Soz. 7. 19. That the Huguenots are not to be blamed for leauing off the Ceremonies of the ancient Church Epist. 119. 19. 1 Consid. Aug. Epist. 112 2 Consid. Stapleton Princip Doctrin cont 4. lib. 6. cap. 15. Andradius defenâ—fidâ—â—â—dent Lib. 4. Coâ—cil Trid. Sess. 3. 3. Cons. â— Cons. Transubstantiation Councell of Lateran Councell of Vienna Councell of Florence Freewill Children dying without Baptisme Worshipping of Images That the Doctrine oâ— the Huguenots is not the same with that of the ancient Heretikes already condemned Retractat lib. 2. cap. 17. Prayer for the dead Set Fasting daies Euseb. 5. 16. Distinction of Bishops and Priests Comment in cap. 1. Epist. â—d Titum Mariage and Virginity Merits of Saints Worshipping of Saints and their Reliques Election of meats Durand l. 6 de aliis ieiuniis 〈◊〉 * En denier resort Sigonius de oceidentis Imp. l. â— Tom. 1. Cont. 4. Lib. 4. Cap. 9. Obiect 2. Obiect 3. Theod. l. 10. c. 70. 2. Reason 3. Reason 4. Reason Rab. Sal. â—archi in Deute onom 5. Reason Mat. 17. 1 Obiection 1 Reason 2 Reason 3 Reason The massacre Anno Dom. 1572 4 Reason 2. Obiection Catholike How the Church is called Catholike in respect of it selfe Heb. 12. 23. Reuel 13. 18. Reuel 5. 9. August de Catechizandis Rudibus cap. 12. Greg. Mor. in Iob. lib. 28. cap. 9. 2 Tim. 2. 19. How the Church is called Catholike in respect of the Iewes Mat. 13. Ephes. 2. 14. How the Church is called Catholike in regard of Heretikes Bernard in Cantica Sermone 38 Ephes. 5. Cant. 1. Vincent Lyr. l. aduers. haereses Eodem lib. adu haeres Tertul. lib de praescript adu haeres Apostolike How the Huguenots may be said to be of the Roman Church Rom. 1. 8. 1 Thess. 1. 8.
for omitting this ceremony In like manner the better learned amongst the Hugenots will confesse that it is lawfull and why then should they blame the Catholikes for obseruing it That which is not necessary may lawfully be omitted and that obserued which is lawfull Another example is of perpetuall single life which the Huguenots blame not but they will say that the obseruation of it in those times was voluntary and not constrained and that men were neuer compelled to vow it as appears by the very Canōs themselues The Church saith one Canō after the constitution of the Apostles added some counsell of perfection as this of the single life of Priests where we may obserue 2. things against the answer one is that single life was ordained by way of counsell not of commandement the other that it was ordained since the Apostles times could therefore be no tradition of the Apostles The next example is of the solitary or contemplatiue life which the Huguenots will not absolutely condemne but they may well say that it hath beene in times past much different from this of our Hermites and Anchorits at this day For they which first brought in this manner of liuing obserued it onely in the time of persecution to auoid idolatry and all other occasions of being enforced to vnlawfull actions by the tyrants which then ruled as the Ecclesiasticall stories do testifie in the liues of S. Paul and S. Anthony the two first Hermits Now for the order of Monkes the Huguenots will name the very yeare when each of them was inuented And what though the name of Monks was vsuall in the primitiue Church yet were they then other manner of Monkes then ours at this day For first they earned their liuings by the sweat of their browes Secondly diuers of them were marryed as Athanasius writes Finally the Huguenots will say that there was neuer Monke in the Primitiue Church that killed a King nor any Catholike in those times that would haue approued it There remaines the election of meats which the Huguenots approue so that it be done with discretion and not meerly for conscience according to the custome of the ancient Church For the better clearing of this point we may me thinkes distinguish betweene the difference of meats and the choyce of meats For the Huguenots will say that there is no difference of meats in respect of Religion for that it is lawfull to eat indifferently of all sorts of meats without making scruple of Conscience but that men for the taming of their flesh may abstaine from such meats as they finde to prouoke them to concupiscence which kinde of abstinence because it is left free to the choise of him that fasteth may properly be called Election of meats For the Apostles saith the Ecclesiasticall Story haue left it to euery mans libertie to vse as well in their fasts as on other dayes such kinds of meats as they best like of Whereas the Fasts enioyned by the Church of Rome may rather will the Huguenots say be called A Prescription of meats then a free Election Because Election is still voluntary and their abstinence is constrained Finally concerning Holy-daies which they call an Apostolicall tradition I say that the Ecclesiasticall Stories shew the cleane contrary For Socrates saith in expresse words That the Apostles ordained nothing concerning Holy-dayes Again they which supposed them to haue beene ordained by the Apostles are enforced at length to place the obseruation of them in the Classe of things indifferent For of all the Festiuall daies there was not one of them which hath beene obserued with more deuotion then Easterday which notwithstanding the Westerne Church vsed to celebrate vpon Sunday and the Easterne vpon other daies the one confirming their custome by the tradition of S. Peter and Paul and the other by the tradition of Philip and Iohn Which controuersie was thus taken vp betwixt Polycarpus and Victor Bishop of Rome namely that the obseruation of it should be left free and indifferent Now the Huguenots doe not simply condemne the obseruation of Holy-daies but only the forcing to the obseruation of them For in England Germany Switzerland and other Countries where the pretended Reformed Religion is established they to this day obserue diuers Saints daies without reprehension of the Huguenots in France But put the case that the vse of all the foresaid Ceremonies were such in the ancient Church as they now are 〈◊〉 the Romane yet say I that all these examples make nothing to the purpose Forasmuch as Ceremonies as I haue said are but the apparell which alters the fashion euery foot and are fitted to time and place which our Aduersary himselfe confesseth For knowing that the most part of our Ceremonies were vnknowne to the Ancients he hath no other Answer then this which will also serue to answer him againe viz That it matters not much whether the Ecclesiasticall Ceremonies were in vse in the Primitiue Church or were newly taken vp in these latter times Now the Scriptures will the Huguenots say denounces the same curse against those which adde as against those which take away so that if it be lawfull for the Romane Church to adde any thing to the ancient Ceremonies it is as lawfull for them also to take away especially those which haue beene added Secondly the Church is called Primitiue either in regard of it selfe because it is truly ancient or in respect of the moderne Church of Rome as it is more ancient in its selfe If we speake now of the Church as it is ancient in it selfe the Huguenots will say that there is no resemblance betwixt the Ceremonies of the ancient Church and those of the moderne But if we speake of that which is more ancient then ours from which only our Aduersaries Arguments are drawne they will say that besides all this that the most part of our Ceremonies are different yet at that time also were there too too many in the Church in so much as Saint Augustine in his time complained exceedingly of the multitude of them Finally as the ancient Church had some Ceremonies which the Huguenots haue not so had it likewise others which the Church of Rome hath not as Milke and Honey in Baptisme and the fashion of plunging the Infant thrice to the bottome which haue beene abrogated as Saint Thomas saith to auoid the calumnies of the Sabellians who for this custome reproched the Christians that they worshipped three Gods From whence we may collect how indifferent things these Ceremonies are so long as they are not abused and on the other sid◠how lawfull it is yea and how necessary to take away the vse of them for preuenting of an inconuenience So that we may say thus much in the Huguenots behalfe that they doe not in this point swarue so much from the practice of the ancient Church seeing they doe not condemne those diuers Ceremonies which were