Selected quad for the lemma: doctrine_n

Word A Word B Word C Word D Occurrence Frequency Band MI MI Band Prominent
doctrine_n church_n council_n trent_n 4,509 5 10.5965 5 true
View all documents for the selected quad

Text snippets containing the quad

ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A00596 The Fisher catched in his owne net Featley, Daniel, 1582-1645. 1623 (1623) STC 10732; ESTC S120857 13,298 32

There are 3 snippets containing the selected quad. | View original text

million_o of_o professor_n yet_o no_o particular_a and_o authentical_a record_n of_o they_o by_o name_n record_n there_o may_v be_v many_o in_o ancient_a time_n yet_o not_o now_o extant_a at_o least_o for_o we_o to_o come_v by_o yet_o we_o will_v not_o refuse_v to_o deal_v with_o you_o in_o your_o own_o question_n if_o you_o in_o like_a manner_n will_v undertake_v the_o like_a task_n in_o your_o own_o defence_n and_o maintain_v the_o affirmative_a in_o the_o like_a question_n which_o we_o now_o propound_v unto_o you_o here_o in_o writing_n whether_o the_o romish_a church_n that_o be_v a_o church_n hold_v the_o particular_a entire_a doctrine_n of_o the_o now_o romanist_n as_o it_o be_v comprise_v in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n be_v in_o all_o age_n visible_a especial_o in_o the_o first_o 600_o year_n and_o whether_o the_o name_n of_o such_o visible_a or_o legible_a romanist_n in_o all_o age_n can_v be_v show_v and_o prove_v out_o of_o good_a author_n here_z dr._n feat_o read_v this_o question_n through_o a_o mistake_n in_o stead_n of_o out_o of_o good_a author_n read_v out_o of_o god_n word_n whereunto_o mr._n fisher_n reply_v no_o i_o will_v prove_v it_o out_o of_o good_a auhor_n then_o say_v one_o that_o sit_v at_o the_o table_n by_o no_o mean_n can_v mr._n fisher_n endure_v to_o demonstrate_v his_o church_n out_o of_o god_n word_n dr._n feat_o god_n be_v a_o good_a author_n mr._n fisher_n but_o it_o be_v true_a i_o do_v mistake_v what_o say_v you_o to_o the_o condition_n will_v you_o undertake_v to_o name_v visible_a papist_n in_o all_o age_n out_o of_o good_a author_n mr._n fisher._n i_o will_v so_o you_o prove_v the_o visibilitie_n of_o your_o church_n here_o a_o order_n be_v set_v down_o that_o dr._n feat_o shall_v for_o a_o hour_n and_o a_o half_a oppose_v m._n fisher_n in_o this_o question_n and_o afterward_o m._n fisher_n for_o the_o last_o hour_n and_o half_o shall_v oppose_v d_o white_n in_o the_o contrary_a question_n for_o the_o visibilitie_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n m._n sweet_a before_o you_o proceed_v to_o dispute_v i_o desire_v these_o condition_n may_v be_v assent_v unto_o on_o both_o side_n 1._o that_o all_o bitter_a speech_n be_v forbear_v 2._o that_o none_o speak_v but_o disputant_n which_o condition_n be_v well_o approve_v of_o by_o the_o whole_a company_n d._n feat_o i_o desire_v a_o three_o to_o be_v add_v thereunto_o viz._n that_o both_o the_o opponent_n and_o respondent_fw-la be_v tie_v to_o logic_n form_n m._n fisher._n i_o hold_v not_o that_o condition_n fit_a because_o the_o company_n understand_v not_o logic_a form_n d._n feat_o there_o be_v of_o the_o company_n that_o understand_v logic_n as_o well_o as_o you_o or_o i_o and_o the_o rest_n be_v man_n of_o understanding_n and_o reason_n therefore_o i_o be_o resolve_v to_o keep_v logic_n form_n and_o expect_v from_o you_o direct_v answer_n m._n fisher._n you_o yourself_o confess_v that_o this_o question_n be_v not_o to_o be_v handle_v syllogistical_o d._n feat_o i_o say_v indeed_o that_o it_o require_v rather_o a_o large_a historical_a volume_n than_o a_o brief_a syllogistical_a dispute_n the_o more_o you_o too_o blame_v to_o propound_v such_o a_o question_n and_o my_o task_n the_o hard_a yet_o be_v propound_v as_o a_o question_n i_o will_v keep_v myself_o to_o logic_n form_n but_o before_o i_o propound_v my_o argument_n i_o crave_v leave_n in_o few_o word_n to_o lay_v open_a the_o vanity_n of_o the_o usual_a discourse_n wherewith_o you_o draw_v and_o delude_v many_o of_o the_o ignorant_a and_o unlearned_a you_o bear_v they_o in_o hand_n that_o there_o be_v no_o such_o thing_n in_o the_o world_n as_o a_o protestant_n before_o luther_n and_o that_o all_o the_o world_n before_o his_o time_n believe_v as_o you_o do_v that_o your_o church_n have_v not_o be_v only_o visible_a in_o all_o age_n and_o all_o time_n but_o eminent_o conspicuous_a and_o illustrious_a which_o be_v such_o a_o notorious_a untruth_n that_o i_o here_o offer_v before_o all_o this_o company_n to_o yield_v you_o the_o better_a and_o acknowledge_v myself_o overcome_v if_o you_o can_v produce_v out_o of_o good_a author_n i_o will_v not_o say_v any_o empire_n or_o kingdom_n but_o any_o city_n parish_n or_o hamlet_n within_o five_o hundred_o year_n next_o after_o christ_n in_o which_o there_o be_v any_o visible_a assembly_n of_o christian_n to_o be_v name_v maintain_v and_o defend_v either_o your_o trent_n creed_n in_o general_a or_o these_o point_n of_o popery_n in_o special_a to_o wit_n 1._o that_o there_o be_v a_o treasury_n of_o saint_n merit_n and_o superabundant_a satisfaction_n at_o the_o pope_n dispose_n 2._o that_o the_o laity_n be_v not_o command_v by_o christ_n institution_n to_o receive_v the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n in_o both_o kind_n 3._o that_o the_o public_a service_n of_o god_n in_o the_o church_n ought_v or_o may_v be_v celebrate_v in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n 4._o that_o private_a mass_n wherein_o the_o priest_n say_v edite_fw-la &_o bihite_a ex_fw-la hoc_fw-la omnes_fw-la and_o yet_o eat_v and_o drink_v himself_o only_o be_v according_a to_o christ_n institution_n 5._o that_o the_o pope_n pardon_n be_v requisite_a or_o useful_a to_o release_v soul_n out_o of_o purgatory_n 6._o that_o the_o effect_n of_o the_o sacrament_n depend_v upon_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o minister_n m._n sweet_a these_o be_v scholastical_a point_n not_o fundamental_a d._n white_a those_o thing_n which_o be_v define_v in_o your_o council_n of_o trent_n be_v to_o you_o matter_n fundamental_a whatsoever_o article_n deny_v make_v a_o man_n in_o heretic_n be_v fundamental_a but_o the_o denial_n of_o any_o of_o these_o make_v a_o man_n a_o heretic_n ergo_fw-la every_o one_o of_o these_o article_n be_v fundamental_a to_o which_o argument_n nothing_o be_v answer_v d._n feat_o proceed_v 7._o feat_o that_o extreme_a unction_n be_v a_o sacrament_n proper_o so_o call_v 8._o that_o we_o may_v worship_n god_n by_o a_o image_n 9_o that_o the_o sacred_a host_n ought_v to_o be_v elevate_v or_o carry_v in_o solemn_a procession_n 10._o that_o infidel_n and_o impious_a person_n yea_o rat_n and_o mouse_n may_v eat_v the_o body_n of_o christ._n 11._o that_o all_o ecclesiastical_a power_n depend_v of_o the_o pope_n 12._o that_o he_o can_v err_v in_o matter_n of_o faith_n 13._o that_o he_o have_v power_n to_o canonize_v saint_n 14._o to_o institute_v religious_a order_n 15._o to_o depose_v king_n etc._n etc._n which_o latter_a point_n and_o the_o like_a i_o leave_v to_o d._n white_a to_o maintain_v against_o you_o when_o according_a to_o your_o promise_n you_o do_v undertake_v to_o name_v visible_a and_o legible_a romanist_n in_o all_o age_n m._n fisher._n after_o you_o have_v prove_v your_o church_n visible_a in_o all_o age_n and_o name_v the_o professor_n thereof_o i_o will_v satisfy_v you_o in_o your_o particular_n d._n feat_o in_o the_o mean_a while_n name_n but_o one_o father_n but_o one_o writer_n of_o note_n who_o hold_v the_o particular_n above_o name_v for_o 500_o year_n after_o christ._n to_o which_o instant_a demand_n of_o d._n feat_o nothing_o be_v answer_v sir_n humf._n lynd._n m._n sweet_a prove_v i_o but_o this_o one_o point_n out_o of_o saint_n augustine_n namely_o transubstantiation_n or_o satisfy_v such_o argument_n as_o i_o shall_v bring_v you_o out_o of_o saint_n augustine_n to_o the_o contrary_a and_o i_o will_v promise_v you_o to_o go_v to_o mass_n to_o which_o m._n sweet_a make_v no_o other_o than_o this_o answer_n that_o be_v not_o now_o to_o the_o question_n m._n fisher._n i_o expect_v your_o argument_n d._n feat_o d._n feat_o there_o be_v two_o mean_n only_o to_o prove_v any_o thing_n by_o necessary_a inference_n to_o wit_n a_o syllogism_n and_o a_o induction_n other_o form_n of_o argument_n have_v no_o force_n but_o as_o they_o be_v reducible_a to_o these_o i_o prove_v the_o visibilitie_n of_o our_o church_n by_o both_o and_o first_o by_o a_o syllogism_n that_o church_n who_o faith_n be_v eternal_a and_o perpetual_a be_v ever_o visible_a in_o the_o professor_n thereof_o but_o the_o faith_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v eternal_a and_o perpetual_a ergo._fw-la m._n fisher._n you_o conclude_v not_o the_o question_n d._n feat_o there_o be_v two_o quaeres_fw-la in_o your_o question_n first_o whether_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v in_o all_o age_n visible_a and_o second_o whether_o the_o name_n of_o such_o visible_a protestant_n in_o all_o age_n can_v be_v show_v i_o have_v conclude_v in_o my_o syllogism_n the_o first_o quaere_fw-la m._n fisher._n there_o be_v not_o two_o quaeres_fw-la or_o part_n in_o the_o question_n it_o be_v but_o one_o question_n d._n white_a where_o there_o be_v two_o proposition_n with_o two_o distinct_a utrum_n there_o be_v two_o question_n but_o here_o be_v two_o proposition_n with_o two_o distinct_a utrum_n
i_o distinguish_v the_o mayor_n that_o church_n who_o faith_n be_v perpetual_a and_o unchanged_a so_o as_o the_o name_n can_v be_v show_v be_v so_o visible_a as_o the_o catholic_a church_n ought_v to_o be_v and_o as_o m._n fisher_n pretend_v the_o roman_a church_n to_o be_v i_o grant_v it_o that_o church_n who_o faith_n be_v perpetual_a and_o unchanged_a yet_o so_o as_o the_o name_n can_v be_v show_v in_o all_o age_n be_v so_o visible_a as_o the_o catholic_n church_n ought_v to_o be_v and_o as_o mr._n fisher_n pretend_v the_o roman_a church_n ought_v to_o be_v i_o deny_v it_o to_o the_o minor_a i_o apply_v the_o like_a distinction_n and_o consequent_o to_o the_o conclusion_n in_o the_o same_o manner_n d._n feat_o what_o answer_v you_o to_o the_o conclusion_n also_o this_o be_v a_o strain_n of_o new_a logic_n mr._n fisher._n tolle_o distinctionem_fw-la d._n feat_o writer_n a_o strange_a distinction_n of_o the_o eternity_n of_o faith_n by_o professor_n to_o be_v name_v and_o not_o to_o be_v name_v what_o be_v professor_n nominable_a or_o innominable_a to_o the_o eternity_n of_o faith_n m._n fisher._n conclude_v that_o which_o i_o deny_v that_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v so_o eternal_a as_o the_o name_n of_o all_o visible_a protestant_n in_o all_o age_n may_v be_v show_v d._n feat_o that_o church_n who_o faith_n be_v the_o catholic_a and_o primitive_a faith_n once_o give_v to_o the_o saint_n without_o which_o no_o man_n can_v be_v save_v be_v so_o perpetual_a as_o the_o name_n may_v be_v show_v in_o all_o age_n but_o the_o faith_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v the_o primitive_a and_o catholic_a faith_n once_o give_v to_o the_o saint_n distinctio_fw-la without_o which_o none_o can_v be_v save_v ergo_fw-la the_o faith_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v so_o perpetual_a as_o the_o name_n may_v be_v show_v in_o all_o age_n m._n fisher._n i_o answer_v to_o the_o minor_a if_o this_o proposition_n be_v take_v simple_o in_o itself_o i_o absolute_o deny_v it_o but_o if_o this_o proposition_n be_v consider_v as_o it_o must_v be_v as_o relate_v to_o the_o first_o question_n and_o the_o end_n thereof_o i_o further_o add_v that_o it_o be_v not_o pertinent_a to_o that_o end_n for_o which_o the_o whole_a dispute_n be_v intend_v to_o wit_n to_o show_v to_o those_o who_o be_v not_o able_a by_o their_o own_o ability_n to_o find_v out_o the_o infallible_a faith_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n without_o learn_v it_o of_o the_o true_a visible_a church_n of_o christ_n and_o consequent_o the_o visibilitie_n of_o the_o church_n be_v first_o to_o be_v show_v before_o the_o truth_n of_o doctrine_n in_o particular_a shall_v be_v show_v d._n feat_o first_o what_o speak_v you_o of_o those_o who_o be_v not_o able_a by_o their_o own_o ability_n to_o find_v out_o faith_n writer_n be_v any_o man_n able_a by_o his_o own_o ability_n without_o the_o help_n of_o divine_a grace_n 2._o what_o help_v the_o visibilitie_n to_o confirm_v the_o truth_n of_o the_o church_n visibilitie_n indeed_o prove_v a_o church_n but_o not_o the_o true_a church_n here_o m._n fisher_n allege_v some_o word_n out_o of_o d._n field_n of_o the_o church_n suppose_v thereby_o to_o justify_v his_o former_a answer_n whereunto_o d._n feat_o promise_v answer_n shall_v be_v make_v when_o it_o come_v to_o their_o turn_n to_o answer_v now_o he_o be_v by_o order_n to_o oppose_v m._n fisher._n d._n feat_o the_o sum_n of_o your_o former_a answer_n be_v that_o the_o minor_a of_o my_o former_a syllogism_n be_v both_o false_a and_o impertinent_a it_o be_v neither_o false_a nor_o impertinent_a ergo_fw-la your_o answer_n be_v false_a and_o impertinent_a and_o first_o it_o be_v not_o false_a m._n fisher._n i_o answer_v to_o the_o antecedent_n that_o it_o be_v both_o false_a and_o impertinent_a but_o i_o add_v that_o for_o the_o present_a it_o must_v first_o be_v prove_v to_o be_v pertinent_a or_o else_o it_o divert_v we_o from_o the_o chief_a end_n of_o our_o dispute_n which_o be_v as_o i_o say_v before_o that_o infallible_a truth_n may_v be_v learn_v of_o the_o true_a visible_a church_n and_o not_o the_o true_a visible_a church_n by_o first_o find_v every_o particular_a infallible_a truth_n and_o by_o that_o to_o conclude_v which_o be_v the_o true_a visible_a church_n d._n feat_o i_o prove_v that_o the_o minor_a be_v pertinent_a that_o minor_a proposition_n which_o together_o with_o the_o mayor_n do_v necessary_o and_o direct_o infer_v the_o conclusion_n of_o the_o minor_a last_o deny_v be_v pertinent_a to_o the_o probation_n of_o that_o minor_a deny_v but_o the_o minor_a proposition_n of_o the_o three_o syllogism_n do_v necessary_o and_o direct_o infer_v the_o conclusion_n of_o the_o minor_a last_o deny_v ergo_fw-la the_o minor_fw-la of_o that_o syllogism_n be_v pertinent_a note_v that_o m._n fisher_n answer_n to_o every_o one_o of_o these_o syllogism_n be_v pen_v by_o he_o verbatim_o with_o the_o advice_n of_o m._n sweet_a and_o one_o other_o advise_v private_o and_o amend_v what_o they_o think_v fit_a which_o breed_v much_o delay_n irksome_a to_o the_o hearer_n and_o the_o opponent_n then_o say_v you_o be_v very_o long_o m._n fisher._n a_o slander_n by_o say_v let_v he_o alone_o for_o he_o and_o his_o learned_a council_n be_v not_o yet_o agree_v m._n fisher._n i_o distinguish_v the_o mayor_n that_o minor_a proposition_n which_o together_o with_o the_o mayor_n do_v necessary_o and_o direct_o infer_v the_o conclusion_n of_o the_o minor_a in_o such_o manner_n as_o it_o may_v serve_v for_o that_o purpose_n to_o which_o the_o whole_a dispute_n be_v ordain_v i_o grant_v it_o to_o be_v pertinent_a but_o if_o it_o do_v infer_v the_o conclusion_n yet_o not_o in_o such_o manner_n as_o it_o may_v serve_v for_o that_o purpose_n for_o which_o the_o whole_a dispute_n be_v ordain_v i_o deny_v the_o mayor_n here_o the_o disputant_n iar_v and_o so_o the_o writer_n cease_v yet_o that_o which_o follow_v be_v then_o deliver_v by_o they_o d._n feat_o that_o minor_a which_o together_o with_o the_o mayor_n infer_v the_o proposition_n last_o deny_v the_o whole_a process_n have_v be_v per_fw-la directa_fw-la media_fw-la be_v pertinent_a to_o that_o purpose_n to_o which_o the_o dispute_n be_v ordain_v but_o this_o minor_a together_o with_o the_o mayor_n direct_o and_o necessary_o infer_v the_o proposition_n last_o deny_v the_o whole_a processus_fw-la have_v be_v make_v per_fw-la directa_fw-la media_fw-la ergo_fw-la it_o be_v pertinent_a to_o that_o purpose_n to_o which_o the_o dispute_n be_v ordain_v m._n fisher._n your_o media_fw-la in_o your_o syllogism_n be_v directa_fw-la but_o they_o tend_v not_o ad_fw-la directum_fw-la finem_fw-la d._n feat_o this_o be_v a_o b●ll_n mr._n fisher._n media_fw-la directa_fw-la yet_o not_o add_v directum_fw-la finem_fw-la that_o be_v direct_v and_o not_o direct_v for_o media_fw-la be_v say_v to_o be_v directa_fw-la only_a ratione_fw-la finis_fw-la m._n sweet_a be_v there_o not_o a_o fault_n in_o argue_v call_v transitio_fw-la à_fw-la genere_fw-la in_o genus_fw-la when_o a_o man_n by_o argue_v quite_o leave_v the_o main_a question_n and_o subject_n d._n feat_o i_o acknowledge_v that_o transitio_fw-la à_fw-la genere_fw-la in_o genus_fw-la be_v a_o fault_n in_o dispute_v but_o i_o never_o hear_v that_o the_o inference_n of_o the_o effect_n by_o the_o cause_n be_v transitio_fw-la à_fw-la genere_fw-la in_o genus_fw-la such_o be_v my_o argument_n for_o faith_n in_o a_o right_a believer_n produce_v profession_n and_o confession_n thereof_o which_o make_v a_o visible_a member_n and_o the_o like_a profession_n of_o many_o member_n a_o visible_a church_n where_o the_o cause_n be_v perpetual_a the_o effect_n must_v needs_o be_v perpetual_a therefore_o where_o the_o faith_n be_v perpetual_a the_o profession_n thereof_o must_v needs_o be_v and_o consequent_o the_o visibilitie_n of_o the_o professor_n thereof_o be_v this_o transitio_fw-la à_fw-la genere_fw-la in_o genus_fw-la a_o slander_n by_o m._n sweet_a you_o once_o learn_v better_a logic_n in_o cambridge_n then_o you_o show_v now_o here_o again_o those_o of_o m._n fisher_n side_n call_v for_o name_n d._n white_a say_v where_o be_v your_o name_n d._n white_a this_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o apparent_a tergiversation_n you_o will_v not_o answer_v any_o argument_n direct_o nor_o suffer_v we_o to_o proceed_v in_o our_o argument_n and_o therefore_o i_o require_v you_o mr._n fisher_n according_a to_o the_o order_n mention_v in_o the_o beginning_n for_o each_o party_n to_o have_v a_o hour_n and_o a_o half_a that_o you_o now_o oppose_v and_o suffer_v i_o to_o answer_v prove_v by_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n or_o by_o any_o of_o the_o father_n for_o the_o first_o 600_o year_n these_o present_a tenet_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n viz._n 1._o that_o all_o power_n of_o order_n and_o jurisdiction_n in_o respect_n of_o the_o church_n be_v to_o be_v derive_v from_o the_o
church_n of_o rome_n 2._o that_o no_o scripture_n sense_n or_o translation_n thereof_o be_v authentical_a unless_o the_o same_o be_v receive_v from_o the_o roman_a church_n 3._o that_o the_o roman_a church_n only_o be_v and_o be_v the_o authentical_a custos_fw-la of_o unwritten_a tradition_n 4._o that_o all_o general_a counsel_n be_v call_v by_o the_o sole_a authority_n of_o the_o pope_n and_o that_o he_o may_v ratify_v and_o disannul_v whatsoever_o please_v he_o in_o they_o 5._o that_o the_o pope_n only_o have_v power_n to_o canonize_v saint_n 6._o that_o the_o pope_n have_v or_o have_v power_n to_o depose_v prince_n prove_v all_o or_o any_o of_o these_o and_o we_o will_v neither_o carp_v nor_o cavil_n about_o name_n but_o answer_v direct_o without_o all_o delay_n cuasion_n or_o tergiversation_n m._n fisher._n when_o you_o d._n white_a or_o d._n feat_o have_v prove_v your_o church_n to_o be_v visible_a in_o all_o age_n and_o name_v visible_a protestant_n than_o i_o promise_v you_o to_o prove_v the_o visibilitie_n of_o the_o catholic_a roman_a church_n but_o that_o be_v not_o do_v by_o you_o yet_o d._n feat_o it_o have_v be_v do_v but_o for_o your_o delay_n and_o tergiversation_n answer_v brief_o and_o direct_o to_o my_o former_a argument_n and_o i_o will_v descend_v to_o my_o induction_n and_o produce_v the_o name_n of_o such_o eminent_a person_n as_o in_o all_o age_n have_v maintain_v the_o substantial_a point_n of_o faith_n in_o which_o we_o differ_v from_o your_o roman_a church_n that_o church_n who_o faith_n be_v the_o catholic_a and_o primitive_a faith_n once_o give_v to_o the_o saint_n without_o which_o none_o can_v be_v save_v be_v so_o visible_a that_o the_o name_n of_o the_o professor_n in_o all_o age_n may_v be_v show_v &_o prove_v out_o of_o good_a author_n but_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v that_o church_n who_o faith_n be_v the_o catholic_a and_o primitive_a faith_n once_o give_v to_o the_o saint_n without_o which_o none_o can_v be_v save_v ergo._fw-la the_o mayor_n be_v ex_fw-la concessis_fw-la what_o say_v you_o to_o the_o minor_a m._n fisher._n i_o distinguish_v the_o minor_a d._n feat_o upon_o what_o term_n do_v you_o distinguish_v m._n fisher._n i_o distinguish_v of_o the_o proposition_n not_o of_o any_o term_n d._n feat_o here_o be_v again_o another_o strain_n of_o new_a logic_n to_o distinguish_v of_o a_o proposition_n and_o apply_v the_o distinction_n to_o no_o term_n howsoever_o i_o be_o glad_a to_o hear_v you_o distinguish_v and_o not_o simple_o to_o deny_v that_o the_o protestant_a faith_n be_v the_o catholic_a primitive_a faith_n mark_v i_o beseech_v you_o you_o that_o be_v present_a that_o mr._n fisher_n demur_n upon_o the_o proposition_n his_o conscience_n will_v not_o suffer_v he_o simple_o to_o deny_v that_o the_o protestant_a faith_n be_v the_o catholic_a primitive_a faith_n we_o simple_o and_o flat_o and_o in_o downright_a term_n deny_v that_o your_o present_a tridentine_a faith_n be_v the_o catholic_a primitive_a faith_n m._n fisher._n i_o answer_v you_o before_o that_o your_o minor_a be_v false_a and_o impertinent_a d._n feat_o i_o have_v prove_v already_o that_o it_o be_v pertinent_a what_o say_v you_o to_o the_o truth_n of_o it_o m._n sweet_a this_o be_v to_o divert_v the_o question_n the_o question_n be_v not_o now_o whether_o our_o faith_n or_o you_o be_v the_o catholic_a primitive_a faith_n but_o the_o question_n now_o be_v of_o the_o effect_n to_o wit_n the_o visibilitie_n of_o your_o church_n which_o you_o ought_v to_o prove_v out_o of_o good_a author_n d._n feat_o may_v not_o a_o man_n prove_v the_o effect_n by_o the_o cause_n be_v there_o no_o other_o mean_n to_o prove_v the_o effect_n but_o by_o name_v man_n and_o produce_v author_n for_o it_o m._n sweet_a a_o effect_n be_v posterius_fw-la the_o question_n be_v about_o a_o effect_n therefore_o you_o ought_v to_o prove_v it_o à_fw-la posteriori_fw-la d._n feat_o what_o a_o reason_n be_v this_o may_v not_o a_o effect_n be_v prove_v by_o his_o cause_n must_v a_o effect_n be_v needs_o prove_v by_o a_o effect_n or_o à_fw-la posteriori_fw-la because_o a_o effect_n be_v posterius_fw-la m._n sweet_a leave_v these_o logic_n dispute_v bring_v the_o name_n of_o your_o protestant_n that_o be_v it_o we_o expect_v d._n feat_o if_o i_o shall_v relinquish_v my_o former_a argument_n to_o which_o yet_o you_o have_v give_v no_o manner_n of_o answer_n you_o mr._n fisher_n will_v report_v that_o i_o be_v nonplus_v as_o you_o slander_v d._n white_a in_o a_o former_a conference_n who_o i_o tell_v you_o m._n fisher_n be_v able_a to_o teach_v we_o both_o whereto_o mr._n fisher_n reply_v nothing_o to_o prevent_v all_o such_o misreport_n to_o the_o wrong_n of_o either_o it_o be_v move_v by_o the_o hearer_n that_o be_v shall_v be_v write_v down_o by_o the_o common_a writer_n of_o the_o conference_n that_o both_o the_o disputant_n be_v willing_a to_o proceed_v d._n feat_o be_v desire_v by_o the_o company_n because_o it_o be_v late_o to_o produce_v the_o name_n of_o such_o protestant_n as_o be_v extant_a before_o luther_n in_o all_o age_n this_o be_v write_v and_o subscribe_v by_o they_o both_o d._n feat_o proceed_v to_o his_o induction_n d._n feat_o a_o induction_n be_v a_o form_n of_o argument_n in_o which_o we_o proceed_v from_o enumeration_n of_o particular_n to_o conclude_v a_o general_a after_o this_o manner_n it_o be_v so_o in_o this_o and_o this_o &_o sic_fw-la de_fw-la caeteris_fw-la ergo_fw-la it_o be_v so_o in_o all_o according_a to_o this_o form_n of_o argue_v thus_o i_o dispute_v the_o protestant_a church_n be_v so_o visible_a that_o the_o name_n of_o those_o who_o teach_v and_o believe_v the_o doctrine_n thereof_o may_v be_v produce_v in_o the_o first_o hundred_o year_n and_o second_o and_o three_o and_o four_o &_o sic_fw-la de_fw-la caeteris_fw-la ergo_fw-la it_o be_v so_o in_o all_o age_n first_o i_o name_v those_o of_o the_o first_o age_n and_o i_o begin_v with_o he_o who_o be_v the_o beginner_n of_o all_o our_o lord_n and_o saviour_n jesus_n christ_n bless_v for_o ever_o at_o who_o name_n all_o knee_n must_v bow_v both_o in_o heaven_n and_o earth_n and_o under_o the_o earth_n at_o which_o word_n all_o the_o company_n express_v a_o holy_a reverence_n after_o christ_n i_o name_v the_o twelve_o apostle_n and_o saint_n paul_n and_o because_o there_o be_v few_o writer_n in_o the_o first_o age_n at_o least_o who_o undoubted_a work_n have_v come_v to_o our_o hand_n i_o name_v only_o i_o gnatius_fw-la after_o the_o twelve_o apostle_n and_o saint_n paul_n m._n fisher._n these_o be_v enough_o for_o the_o first_o age_n christ_n the_o twelve_o apostle_n saint_n paul_n and_o ignatius_n here_o at_o the_o name_n of_o ignatius_n some_o of_o m._n fisher_n side_n seem_v very_o glad_a and_o confident_a say_v we_o be_v sure_a enough_o that_o ignatius_n be_v on_o our_o side_n d._n feat_o i_o mean_v not_o the_o new_a ignatius_n loyola_n but_o ignatius_n the_o martyr_n between_o who_o there_o be_v more_o difference_n in_o quality_n than_o distance_n in_o time_n m._n fisher._n name_v of_o all_o the_o age_n or_o else_o you_o do_v nothing_o d._n feat_o i_o can_v name_v all_o at_o once_o will_v you_o have_v i_o name_n man_n of_o so_o many_o age_n with_o one_o breath_n will_v you_o have_v i_o eat_v my_o whole_a dinner_n at_o a_o bit_n can_v i_o name_v twelve_o several_o but_o i_o must_v name_v first_o one_o than_o two_o then_o three_o and_o so_o forward_o i_o name_v as_o i_o say_v before_o in_o the_o first_o age_n for_o our_o religion_n our_o bless_a lord_n and_o saviour_n the_o founder_n of_o all_o religion_n the_o twelve_o apostle_n and_o after_o they_o st._n paul_n and_o ignatius_n the_o martyr_n for_o the_o second_o age_n i_o name_v justin_n martyr_n clemens_n alexandrinus_n and_o saint_n cyprian_a and_o i_o begin_v first_o with_o christ_n &_o his_o apostle_n m._n fisher._n you_o shall_v not_o begin_v with_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n d._n feat_o you_o be_v not_o to_o make_v my_o induction_n i_o will_v begin_v with_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n where_o shall_v i_o begin_v but_o in_o the_o first_o age_n and_o with_o the_o first_o of_o it_o shall_v i_o make_v a_o catalogue_n of_o the_o christian_a church_n according_a to_o the_o several_a age_n and_o leave_v out_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n in_o the_o first_o age_n answer_n first_o to_o they_o and_o i_o will_v proceed_v to_o other_o m._n fisher._n name_v the_o rest_n in_o all_o age_n and_o then_o i_o will_v answer_v you_o d._n feat_o first_o answer_n to_o the_o first_o age_n and_o then_o i_o will_v proceed_v to_o the_o second_o if_o you_o grant_v i_o the_o first_o age_n than_o i_o will_v proceed_v present_o to_o the_o second_o otherwise_o i_o must_v stay_v in_o the_o first_o m._n fisher._n unless_o you_o give_v i_o a_o catalogue_n of_o name_n throughout_o all_o age_n i_o will_v not_o answer_v d._n feat_o will_v you_o not_o answer_v christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n in_o the_o first_o place_n m._n fisher._n i_o will_v not_o before_o you_o have_v name_v the_o rest_n d._n feat_o will_v you_o not_o be_v try_v by_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n that_o which_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n teach_v in_o the_o first_o age_n be_v teach_v by_o succeed_a christian_n in_o all_o age_n this_o be_v confess_v on_o both_o side_n but_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o protestant_n be_v teach_v by_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n in_o the_o first_o age_n ergo._fw-la answer_v this_o syllogism_n if_o you_o will_v not_o answer_v my_o former_a induction_n m._n fisher._n i_o will_v not_o answer_v you_o any_o thing_n till_o you_o have_v make_v your_o catalogue_n d._n feat_o mr._n fisher_n i_o charge_v you_o as_o you_o will_v answer_v it_o before_o christ_n himself_o at_o the_o dreadful_a day_n of_o judgement_n answer_v now_o upon_o your_o conscience_n before_o all_o this_o company_n whether_o you_o believe_v that_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n teach_v our_o faith_n or_o you_o this_o be_v the_o main_a point_n of_o all_o answer_v direct_o to_o my_o induction_n notwithstanding_o this_o deep_a charge_n m._n fisher_n still_o refuse_v to_o answer_v to_o the_o argument_n of_o instance_n in_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n whereupon_o diverse_a thereupon_o express_v their_o distaste_n at_o such_o refusal_n desire_v d._n feat_o to_o surcease_v tell_v he_o that_o he_o ought_v not_o to_o talk_v any_o long_o with_o such_o a_o one_o who_o refuse_v to_o answer_v christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n and_o so_o the_o conference_n break_v up_o this_o conference_n though_o it_o take_v not_o that_o progress_n which_o be_v desire_v by_o reason_n of_o the_o jesuit_n tergiversation_n not_o permit_v dr._n feat_o to_o come_v to_o the_o ripeness_n of_o any_o argument_n yet_o it_o have_v not_o be_v fruitless_a for_o since_o that_o time_n the_o aforesaid_a mr._n bug_n come_v to_o sir_n humphrey_n lind_n and_o give_v he_o many_o thanks_o for_o the_o say_a meeting_n and_o assure_v he_o that_o he_o be_v well_o resolve_v now_o of_o his_o religion_n that_o he_o see_v plain_o it_o be_v but_o the_o jesuit_n brag_v without_o proof_n and_o whereas_o former_o by_o their_o sophistical_a persuasion_n he_o be_v in_o some_o doubt_n of_o the_o church_n he_o be_v now_o so_o full_o satisfy_v of_o the_o truth_n of_o our_o religion_n that_o he_o do_v utter_o disclaim_v the_o popish_a priest_n company_n and_o their_o doctrine_n also_o upon_o monday_n follow_v m._n fisher_n and_o m._n sweet_a come_v unsent_a for_o to_o the_o house_n of_o sir_n humphrey_n lind_n to_o know_v of_o he_o whether_o the_o party_n that_o have_v former_o confer_v will_v proceed_v or_o no_o who_o answer_v that_o if_o they_o may_v confer_v private_o with_o leave_n in_o some_o other_o place_n they_o will_v easy_o make_v good_a their_o cause_n and_o so_o they_o part_v without_o further_a resolution_n of_o place_n or_o meeting_n since_o which_o time_n notice_n be_v give_v by_o my_o lord_n bishop_n of_o durham_n of_o his_o majesty_n pleasure_n that_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o late_a conference_n shall_v be_v certify_v to_o his_o majesty_n and_o further_a meeting_n stay_v a_o romanist_n have_v confident_o aver_v to_o mr._n bug_n that_o our_o side_n have_v labour_v to_o have_v all_o future_a meeting_n touch_v this_o occasion_n forbid_v because_o we_o dare_v not_o nor_o be_v not_o able_a to_o make_v good_a our_o assertion_n against_o they_o and_o this_o be_v the_o true_a relation_n of_o the_o conference_n itself_o together_o with_o the_o occasion_n thereof_o and_o the_o effect_n which_o it_o produce_v finis_fw-la d._n feat_o d._n feat_o a_o romanist_n stand_v by_o the_o same_o romanist_n stand_v by_o a_o protestant_a sit_v by_o minor_n probatur_fw-la all_o this_o be_v speak_v but_o not_o commit_v to_o the_o writer_n tollitur_fw-la distinctio_fw-la these_o word_n be_v also_o speak_v but_o not_o set_v down_o by_o the_o writer_n