manifest for you I shall neither believe Catholics nor you Here I will stop For truly after so much said of this Subject and so long Experience of his sure Compass I grieve too much to dispute it farther when I observe that neither Reason nor Experience will do and fear there are who more desire the Ocean of Controversies should never be past than truly think it will be past this way But he is merry whatever I be For sure he is in jest when he talks of clear Evidence of Scripture against us and the Church of Romes notoriously deviating from it Under the Face he sets on this Matter there is nothing in the World but that he has the Art to make the Words of Scripture bear a Sense of his own or Friends invention no great matter to brag on Alas no not so much as for Learning For even the Unlearned he knows have Wit enough to pervert the Scriptures to their own Perdition And because the Church of Rome has no mind his Word should be past upon her for God's Word he runs away with it with a sure Compass and clear Evidence and the infallible Rule Words which as big as they sound signifie nothing but the Whimsies of possibly a single possibly an unlearned Man but yet who will needs be wiser than the Church To take upon us to understand the meaning of the Books of Divine Mysteries otherwise than by learning it of their Interpreters when no Trade the most trivial and easie is learnt without a Master and condemn what we understand not as we do when we will not embrace that Meaning is not to mince his Words rash Pride in the Opinion of S. Austin But to go on the Answerer knows very well that the meaning of his Majesties next Paragraph is not what his Question would put upon it and yet he must needs suppose it has another as if he did him Grace His Majesty asks no Grace of him but to put the Period entire It is not left to every Phantastical Mans Head to believe as he pleases but to the Church to whom Christ left the Power on Earth where I think the Compositor has left out a Comma to govern us in matters of Faith who made the Creeds for our direction and then to understand English But he will needs suppose the meaning is that those who reject the Authority of the Roman Catholic Church do leave every Man to believe according to his own Fancy Still he takes it not right Not but that rejecting that Authority infers setting up private Fancy But as inconsequent as it is there are who for all their rejecting that greater Authority are severe enough in requiring punctual obedience to their own little or no Authority and this too visibly for his Majesty to say they do not His words I conceive cannot fairly be suppos'd to extend farther than they were directed to a single Person in all likelihood who had the honour of his Confidence and whom he thought fit to put in mind That it is not left to every Phantastical Mans Head to believe as he pleases What has the Answerer to say to this is it true or is it not true Certainly says he those of the Church of England cannot be liable to any Imputation of this Nature And who can tell by this whether he say I or no or what kind of Answer that should be which says neither or what it serves for but to do the Church of England the same good Office which they do themselves who when Vice is ridicul'd on the Stage fall out with the Actors or Poet and will needs be the Fools of the Play But if he will be 〈◊〉 needless Apologies why must he needs make one fifty times worse than the attempt to make it All Heretics since the first Four General Councils may say the very same which he says for the Church of England and all before them the Equivalent Arius himself could say I receive the Apostles Creed and why should more be requir'd of me when that has hitherto been thought sufficient for all Christians Moreover I embrace all former Councils but think I have very great reason to complain that a Party in the Church the most corrupt and obnoxious assuming the Title of a General and Free Council takes upon it self to define new Doctrine which has neither universal Tradition divers heretofore and all the Orthodox that is my Abetters being on my side and so plainly no Scripture that because they could find none there they were fain to Coyn a new Word for their new Faith Macedonius Nestorius and Eutiches might have said as much of the Creeds and Councils before them and all Heretics since of the Creeds and Councils alledg'd by the Answerer and all complain of the Villanous Factions call'd General Councils He has plainly justify'd them all if it be a justification of a Doctrine that it is not found condemned in Councils held before it was broach'd For the Doctrine of none of them was condemn'd by any former Council nor indeed well could For as Councils seldom meddle with more than the exigence for which they were call'd requires it is not to be expected that more Faith should be found in their Creeds or Acts than was Controverted when they sat Wherefore unless one will fancy that every part of Christs Doctrine was denied so early or that no body since can deny some part which was not denied then it is as wild as unseasonable to plead in behalf of a Doctrine now that it was not condemn'd by the first Four General Councils or Three Creeds where there was no occasion to mention it And yet he thinks this an Apology fit to be made for the Church of England Truly I have long thought and there are of her Members who know my Thoughts that she has ill luck when she has much better things to say for her self to have such things as these said for her things which fit the greatest Enemies she has every jot as well as her self and which I therefore wonder not when I see alledg'd by them as Pleas for her For They have reason when They will not be brought to Her to bring Her to Them if they can But to see them produc'd by those who will be even unseasonably zealous for her is a Riddle with which it is not for me to meddle What he adds of holding nothing contrary to any universal Tradition of the Church from the Apostles Times and putting it upon that Issue for professing and offering as he expresses it is no great matter unless they do what they profess and offer is indeed to purpose and spoken like a Friend of the Church of England and a Lover of Peace And I hea◠tily wish and as earnestly as I can pray to Almighty God that this Trial may be brought speedily on which I can safely undertake shall neither be declin'd nor delay'd by the Church of Rome Then he passes on
not in the Office of Baptism that it is required that they believe the Roman Catholic Church As if the Roman Baptism by requiring belief of the Catholic did not require belief of the Roman Catholic Church If he think in earnest that it do's not let him present a Man to this Baptism who professes not to believe the Roman Catholic Church and try whether his professing to believe the Catholic Church will obtain it He reflects not that the Limitation which is in this Expression Roman Catholic Church comes not from Roman but from Church That Word indeed always limits the Expression to those who believe and sometimes to those who practise the Doctrine of Christ. Roman neither makes nor marrs as to Limitation but owns the Romans for such Christians Taking in those whom Injustice would keep out is it seems Limitation in his Language As it griev'd him in likelihood that this Expression as visible as that the Scripture is in Print should be applied to the Roman Catholic Church he had a mind to retort it upon her but very unluckily chuses to do it in an Assertion contrary to the sense of all the World besides himself and by an Argument contrary to the sense of the whole Church not excepting his own He says then in his third Head That it is to him equally visible that the Church of Rome it self do's not believe that it is the one Catholic Church mentioned in the two Creeds and this every body but he plainly sees it do's And proves it by this Argument Because if it did it must void all Baptism out of its Communion which it hath never yet done when 't is plain that all the Church agrees it ought not to be voided This he very well knows is a Plea over-ruled by the whole Church many Ages ago and which I little expected he would have borrow'd from Men who he says were excommunicated because they made and stood to it especially whâ—â—â— he I think condemns it himself For he excludes the Donatists I suppose and Novatians from the Catholic Church because they re-baptized When he bethinks himself he will not sure have the Church heretofore not believe her self the Catholic Church because she would not void Baptism with the Re-baptizers nor exclude the English from the Caâ— holic Church because she voids it not The truth is to say in one breath That the Donatists were not Catholics because they Re-baptized and in the next That Roman Catholics cannot believe themselves Catholics because they do not is a cross piece of Business and much too hard for me As far as I can understand the very Reason he gives why they should not is one Reason why they should believe themselves the Catholic Church For in not voiding the Baptism of Heretics they do as the Primitive Catholic Church did And had I made such an Argument for a Friend I am afraid he would have thought I plaid booty The Answerer nevertheless strives to make it good by this Discourse As long as Baptism doth enter Persons into the Catholic Church it is impossible that all who have the true Form of Baptism though out of the Communion of the Roman Church should be Members of the Catholic Church and yet the Communion of the Roman and Catholic be all one as it must be if the Roman Church be the Catholic and Apostolic Church professed in the Creeds This if I understand it is in short Persons Baptized out of the Roman Communion are Members of the Catholic but not of the Roman Catholic Church and therefore the Catholic and Roman Catholic are not the same Churches He was not I perceive aware that he supposes what he should prove and when he has done proves it by means of that Supposition For he could not make a Member of the Catholic not to be a Member of the Roman Catholic unless he suppose that those are two different Churches And this is the very Point in Dispute which he should prove and which he puts for proved in his Conclusion But we are all subject to oversights I wonder more how it could scape him that the Baptized Persons he speaks of are as much Members of both Churches as of either I speak in his Language as if they were different Churches that his Argument may go on Those Persons are not truly Members either of the Catholic or Roman Catholic Church but as far as Baptism makes Members they are altogether as much Members of the Roman Catholic as of the Catholic And He if he will recollect himself knows very well that both Points have been long since determin'd and that by the whole Catholic Church The old Contest about Rebaptisation puts it past Dispute that they were not truly Members of any Part of the Catholic Church For the Contest was How they should be made Members Whether by a new Baptism or only by Imposition of Hands Both Sides therefore that is the whole Church agreed That they were not Members of the Church till one way or other they were receiv'd into it And to think they did not agree in this is to make very wise Men of them Men who fell out with one another even to Excommunication if we will believe the Answerer how those should be brought into the Church who were in already Again That they were nevertheless as much Members of the Catholic Church tho' baptised out of its Communion and so of the Roman tho' baptised out of the Roman Communion as Baptism could make them he knows too was carried against the Re-baptisers by the rest of the Church in whose Judgment the whole Church ever since has acquiesced And he stands single against that Judgment when he thinks a Man baptised out of the Roman Communion is not a Member of the Roman Communion as much as Baptism makes a Member and as much as if he were baptised in her Communion In truth there is nothing to dispute of but Words When he says that Baptism enters the Baptised into the Catholic Church if he mean that those who are duly baptised by Men who are out of the Communion of the Catholic Church need no other Baptism to be brought into the Catholic Church he says very true and no more than what the whole Church has long since said before him Neither do they need any other Baptism to be brought into the Roman And if he will have this called an entry and the Baptised called Members with all my heart For I think it time lost to quarrel about the Names of things when we know what they signifie But if he mean that their Baptism so enters them that they need nothing more to be what every body understands by Members Men who believe and profess the Faith of the Catholic Church he contradicts every Member of the Catholic Church and every Man in the World For all Men see they do not profess that Faith but the Heresies of their Baptisers and all Christians know they need notwithstanding their
Baptism to be receiv'd into the Church and that there goes Faith as well as Baptism to a Member of the Body of Faithful And as Faith signifies an Assent to the Doctrine of Christ the Answerer sure will not say that they have Faith who far from assenting contradict the Doctrine of Christ and so make the Church a Congregation no longer of Faithful but of Faithful and not Faithful There is more ado about the last Head and nothing all the while to the Question The substance is That some have been cast out of Communion upon particular Differences which were not supposed to be of such a nature as to make them no Members of the Catholic Church That therefore there may be different Communions among Christians which may still continue Parts of the Catholic Church And that consequently no one Member of such a Division ought to assume to it self the Title and Authority of the One Catholic Church And what is all this even supposing it all true to the Question of the Paper Whether the Roman Catholic be the One Catholic Church of the Creeds Suppose his divided Christians do continue Parts still of the Catholic Whole cannot the Roman Catholic therefore be that Whole Suppose no one Member of the Division ought to assume to it self the Title and Authority of the One Catholic Church ought not therefore both and all the Members to assume it What is or can there be to assume it besides Or would he not have it assumed at all but the Name of Catholic Church banish'd out of the World by every such Division which happens in it His Majesty as I observ'd before included in the Roman Catholic Church of which He speaks all Christians whom a different Faith excluded not and said that this Church or these All are the One Catholic Church of the Creeds The Answerer to shew they are not tells us That among these All there may be Divisions notwithstanding which they may remain Parts still of the Catholic Church Why if they remain Parts of the Catholic Church they are of the number of the All who make it up and remain Parts of His Majesty's Roman Catholic Church which takes All in Is that Church ever the less Catholic by having never so many Members Or ever the less One because divided Christians believe as she do's For if they do not She and They both cannot be Members of one Catholic Church and the Answerer must needs exclude either Her or Them For it being as palpable Nonsence that one Church can be with more than one Faith as that one Man can be with more than one Soul the Churches which make up the Catholic Apostolic One Church can have but one Faith among them All And who knows the Faith of any one knows the Faith of all the rest Now since the Answerer with his Compliment of Corrupt Faith which as Compliments often are is Nonsence too makes the Roman Catholic a Part at least of the one Catholic Whole all the other Parts must believe as she do's or cannot themselves be Parts And so his Reason why All those who believe as she do's are not the Catholic Church is because All believe as she do's notwithstanding some Divisions As it is not to our purpose I inquire not whether his divided Christians do indeed by continuing the same Faith properly continue parts of the Catholic Church a Question which belongs to the propriety of Language nor how far so much Title to the Church avails to their Salvation Since Divisions especially of long continuance seem hardly consistent with Charity and Charity is as necessary to Salvation as Faith I pray God of his Mercy to preserve me from ever being divided whether I be said to belong still to the Church or no and make them sensible of their condition who are Neither will I examine how 't is with the Eastern Christians at this Day or was with those of Afric and Asia whom he makes Excommunicated heretofore by the Bishops of Rome a Point of which if he have a mind to Dispute he may chuse his Man among those who deny it Whether the Roman Catholic comprehending all of the same Faith with her be the one Catholic Apostolic Church of the Creeds is our Question not who they are who have the same Faith And that this Roman Catholic Church is the One Church which Christ has on Earth or that he has none on Earth is as visible as that Scripture is in Print or any thing more visible if any thing can be For if it be not we must look for Christ's Church either among Infidels who believe not in Christ at all or Heretics who believe not his Doctrine And there I for my part despair to find it The truth is I suspect by his talking that he would be content People should think that the one Catholic Church of the Creeds requir'd not any one Faith but were made up of as many Men as own Christ whatever they believe of his Doctrine Except perhaps those who Rebaptise and those who assume the Title of the Catholic Church By which means the notion of Catholic would be well enough provided for but One and Church left to shift for themselves But he do's not directly say it and 't is not fair to put my suspitions to his account Divers other Passages there are in his Discourse which relish not with me He by saying the Visible Church might have been easily shewn in the first Blessed Times insinuates she is less visible now or rather invisible for visible things may be easily seen at all times And I conceive the same marks which shew'd her then will with as little difficulty shew her now Christians were then admonish'd to mind those who abide in the Doctrine of Christ who come and bring not that Doctrine and to contend for the Faith once delivered to the Saints And we have but to do so still Again I comprehend not how his unheeded and yet remarkable difference between People cast out of Communion viz. That some did and some did not challenge the Title of the Catholic Church was the cause of any great misapplication It sounds as if he would have that Title never rightly apply'd but to those who do not challenge it in likelihood because they have no pretence to it But I less understand how it comes to be Presumption and a cause of Schisms in one part of a Division to assume it It is not well intelligible when there is a Division how more than one part can bear it For the Language of the World has always preserv'd that Title to one Part and given the name of Sect or part cut off to the other And it is more unintelligible how it should be Presumption in that one Part to take what all the World gives and that Presumption be the cause of Schisms which happen'd and of necessity always must happen before the Presumption For till there be Schism that is Division there
cannot be Part of a Division to presume His account too of the breach betwixt the East and the West is I think very wide of the mark He would have the Popes Supremacy bear the blame of all which if my Memory fail me not was not so much as made a Pretence till near Two hundred Years after the Schism began nor any where more acknowledged than in Greece nor by any body more than by him who began the Schism When I read the Story I apprehended the cause of that breach was National Feuds heightned into violent hatred by several Accidents which chopt unluckily in and the malitious Ambition of Men who found their private Accounts in the Public Calamity Indeed I think they denied the Popes Supremacy at last as all who will continue in Schism at long run must because to acknowledge and not regard it is self condemnation Otherwise their Quarrel was to the Latin Church or perhaps more truly Nation not the Supremacy of which they speak so inconstantly that I am persuaded it would break no squares even now if they could be brought on any terms to agree with Men whom they hate I would be more diligent in this Matter if it concern'd our Question But as they are parts of His Majesties Roman Catholic Church if they believe as she do's and are not if they do not and it is equal whether they do or no I leave them to Gods Mercy and return from straying thus far into our Road again This Principle being remov'd which ought he says be taken for granted since it can never be prov'd By the way he do's not sure mean this for a bob to the King as if he took his Principle viz. That the Church is as visible as Scripture for granted because he knew not how to prove it Whether the Person to whom he directed his Paper were satisfy'd before hand of this Point by their former Discourses or needed no Arguments to see a visible thing or however it were the Answerer may perceive by the Paper that his Majesty thought it not to his purpose to press the Visibility of the Church but only submission to it and means not I suppose to tell the King he knew not his own Design or how to pursue it His part is to answer what is said and not instruct the King what should have been said He must therefore mean that it ought to be taken for granted that he has remov'd that Principle which is just Lend me your Hand Neighbour to remove my Block I cannot stir it my self Alas it is very visible he has done nothing towards removing it But he is in the right to play sure Who have a flaw in their Title do well to get a Grant By his saying it can never be prov'd he has I guess a mind to tempt somebody to prove over again what has been prov'd a hundred and a hundred times already But as much as his positiveness tempts me to be doing and as easie as I think it to be done I beg his Pardon at present Parrying is my business not Thrusting now Whatever he mean I do not think that what he concludes would follow even tho' the Principle which he dislikes were removed The Principle is That the Roman Catholic is the One Church which Christ has here upon Earth and the Conclusion is That we must unavoidably enter into the Ocean of particular Disputes Why so I pray him Why will not another Catholic Church serve turn If he will needs have it granted that the Roman Catholic is not the One Church of Christ 't is but shewing us the other Catholic which is Roman or not Roman imports not But believing the Doctrine of Christ imports as much as Salvation is worth and the Commission which Christ gave to teach it the World is now in force and shall be as long as there is a World Let him but direct us to the Men who have it in this Age that we who live in this Age may learn it of them let him but tell us which is the One not Roman Catholic Church which Christ has here upon Earth and it will do our business every jot as well as the Roman Catholic and as much save us from being plunged into the Ocean of particular Disputes Otherwise to tell us the Roman Catholic is not that Church and not tell us which is is as much as to tell us that Christ has none upon Earth For evidently She or some other must be that Church if there be any at all But let him not send us to a Church whereof the several Parts agree not in one Faith Besides that we should never understand how such a Church let it be never so Universal could be One and make account Christ taught One determinate Doctrine not the 1 and the No both it would be otherwise useless For if This Part teach one Faith and the Next another we should not know which to believe and in all likelihood believe neither But he knows no Reason any can have to be so afraid of the Ocean of particular Disputes since we have so sure a Compass as the Holy Scripture to direct our Passage I am sure there can be no Reason to venture to Sea when we are already safe in our Port The Holy Scripture assures us that the Church is the Foundation and Pillar of Truth and Truth is plainly the Port to which his Compass should direct us But pray what Compass can be sure where the Needle is not suffer'd freely to play Wrangling is Iron to this Needle and turns it to all Points It will indeed direct the humble and docile and the sincere who first know that no Prophecy of Scripture is of private interpretation and we see it will by the Third Paper But it is not for the bold and self-conceited Disputers If any will be contentious we have no such custom nor the Church of God is what the Scripture it self says to them To contend with them at Scripture Tertullian tells us is good for nothing but to turn the Brain or the Stomach and that we ought not to try it this way because the Issue will be uncertain or but little certain or none Alas this Gentleman with the security he promises errs all this while not knowing the Scriptures nor so much as the End for which they were made He would do well to remember what St. Austin says to him in Words directed to another If you will not have me believe Catholics you are quite out to think to draw me to you by Scripture because it was for their sakes that I believed Scripture You would indeed if you could evidently prove your Doctrine by Scripture invalidate the Authority of Catholics who bid me not believe you And when you have done neither shall I believe the Scripture which I had believed upon their Credit and so what you alledge out of it will be of no force with me If you find it
knows that without Faith it is impossible to please him But whether do's he mean to lead us All hitherto seems quite out of the way to our Question For what has the chief end for which a Rule was made to do with whether it will guide us certainly or no Hiâ— refusing to Answer is in truth confessing that Scripture after all is not the Rule of Controversiâ— s. For they are not ended till one side or other be certain But let us go no farther than we needs must In Matters of Good and Evil every Man's Conscience he says is his immediate Iudge and why not in Matters of Truth and Falshood Vnless we suppose Mens involuntary Mistakes to be more dangerous than their wilful Sins How Are we before we were aware come to Conscience at last and all his Magnificent Talk his Evident his Sure and his Infallible his Care in examining and comparing for nothing but to establish this Maxim Do every one what seems good in his own Eyes and believe what seems true Is this the clearer light he will give to the things contain'd in His Majesty's Papers and the loss of such a Liberty the great danger they run of being deceiv'd with their fair appearance whom he will secure with his safe Instructions of trusâ— ing their Conscience both for Good and for True Doctrine or not Doctrine of Christ is no such idle Circumstance sure that hitting or missing is equal so the Conscience be strait and the Mistake involuntary By the way I see not how this involuntary can thrust in here For who forces any Body to mistake or take the deceitful ways which lead them to it But to say nothing to that matter and but little to his Plea of Conscience as copious as the Theme is I only ask what Conscience can do more than secure a Man from being judg'd for sinning against his Conscience But if it lead him to do ill things or embrace a wrong Faith what can he answer for the Sin of having that Conscience Reason certainly never â— ramed such a Conscience and there is nothing besides which could frame it but Passion that is Affections wrong set or in plain English very wilful Sin Shall he who has this to answer for be safe because he has nothing to answer for the Sin against Conscience As if that were the only Sin to be accounted for in the next World For the rest This to say the truth is an Answer For Uncertainty do's not prove that Scripture is not the Rule if it be no matter whether we be uncertain or no nor indeed whether there be a Rule or Faith For if Conscience will carry those to Heaven who believe wrong Faith I think may be spared and a Rule for it But as it is an Answer which I believe would not have taken with His late Majesty because he had too much Experience of the bad Effâ— cts of mistaken Conscience to think it would 〈◊〉 at the Tribunal of God more than it did at His I am confident it will take as little with the Reader At least I will venture it without more words For I mâ— an not to stay at a new Apology of his 〈…〉 of England as unseasonable as the â— ormâ— r 〈◊〉 something were objected to her and as little 〈◊〉 At the rate he talks one woul◠〈…〉 do's what he undertakes She do's not 〈◊〉 every Man to â— e his own Iudge For this he 〈…〉 in what concerns his own Salvation that is in all Faith for Faith concerns Salvation Who believes not every body who believes Scripture knows shall be damned Then his Seducers with their dangerous Mistakes as such there are it seems for all his Conscience-security And his Spiritual Guides with their assistance would make work till Doomsday Nor can Quarrels about them be ended till those about Faith be settled For till then who shall know which is the Guide and which the Seducer As Christ appointed no body to teach other Doctrine than he taught They are plainly no Guides of his appointing who do The Ancient Creeds too are brought in again as if they would be serviceable to the Church of England and no Liberty of Conscience allow'd to judge against them or any Doctrines as universally receiv'd as if any part of universal Christian Doctrine were lost and all had not been always as universally retain'd as the Creeds But I have my Answer and will be going In the next Section the King asks Whether it be not the same thing to follow our own Fancy or to interpret Scripture by it And he answers There might be some colour for such a Question if They did not do so and so Pray what colour has he â— or such a Reply Might not the King have colour to say what he thought fit to be said to him to whom he spoke whether there be or be not colour to say the same to the Church of England He wâ—â— t not to her nor were His Writings publish'd with any relation to her but to satisfie the Curiosity of those who desir'd to see them and could not come by written Copies and to assure them they were His. In stead of concerning her where she is not concern'd let him if he please answer the Question and tell us whether it be or be not the same to follow 〈◊〉 own Fancy or interpret Scripture by it Till he say I or Nâ— all besides is leaving the Work â— ut out for us to cut out new of our own which twenty to one we shall never make up For which Reason I will pray him to keep his many Questions tâ— ll the Dispute be between the two Churches and I appear for the Church of Rome Till then he cannot rationally expect an Answer from me He perhaps may be able to manage two Disputes at a time or think the best way to end one is to begin another I think it too much for me to defend a King and a Church at once And so much good may his pleasant Fancies do him about a Rule and its Interpretation which he talks as if he would have belong to those who do not know the Sense of it about the Intention of Almighty God as if we knew not what he intended and did make the Pillar and Ground of Truth about reforming Disorders which he makes unreformable even in Commonwealths where the Supreme Judge has the ill luck to be principally accus'd about Oaths as if any were taken to defend an unjust Authority or could bind tho' they were about a Iudge of Tradition as if a Man who sees Pictures in one Church and none in another needed a Judge to pronounce to him that those Churches practise differently His Vsurpers and all shall do what he would have them for me I wish in stead of all this he would have minded his Business but mean however to mind mine What he replies to the next Section shews more like an Answer than any thing said yet I
would have any Man shew me says the King where the Power of deciding Matters of Faith is given to every particular Man He distinguishes and says The Power of Deciding so as to oblige others is not given to every particular Man the Power of Deciding so as to satisfie the particular Decider is Denial is a fair Answer and this seems to deny what His Majesty says and yet in truth says nothing to it Deciding of particular Men being our own Iudges following our own Fancy or private Spirit believing as we please and the like Expressions signifie all the same And the King as Men use to do who mind Sense more than Words and have Language at will takes now one now another as they come in His way As it could not scape an â— ye less piercing than His that he judges every jot as much who believes upon the Authority of the Church as he who believes upon his own Fancy of Scripture and that every Assent is a Judgment and so the Assent of Faith as well as the rest it cannot be imagin'd that He would have Men not judge at all But He meant as all the World means by those Phrases that they should not judge unreasonably For as they are blamed who will be their own Judges and no body blames another for doing well and Judging is of it self a good thing an Exercise of a Faculty planted in us by God there is nothing to be blamed but the ill use of that Faculty by suffering Passion to 〈◊〉 it which should only be guided by Reason That Men 〈◊〉 mean thus by those Expressions we see by the 〈◊〉 to which they apply them He who being 〈◊〉 by 〈◊〉 or Conceit of 〈…〉 〈…〉 the Advice of his unpassionate and 〈…〉 or he who has no skill in Physic or 〈…〉 will commence and prosecute Suits 〈…〉 against the Advice of able Lawyers and Doctors is said to be his own Judge He is not who understanding Jewels or Pictures buys them at his own Rate tho' never so many of less 〈◊〉 than himself persuade him to the contrary 〈…〉 is said to be his Judge Now the King 〈◊〉 because Christ taught his Apostles and 〈◊〉 who with those that believ'd his Doctrine 〈…〉 Preaching and their Successors through 〈…〉 are called the Church that he could not 〈◊〉 reasonably who would pretend to find out that Doctrine by his own Wit or Study or any 〈◊〉 but by learning it of the Church which 〈…〉 at first from Christ and preserv'd it ever 〈◊〉 And this unreasonable Judgment made on their own Heads or Fancy against the Judgment of those whose Profession it is His several Expressions strike at The Answerer reflected not on the meaning of them but would persuade us That to say particular Men must be satisfied of the Reasons why they believe is an Answer to the Question Whether there be indeed any Reasons why they should believe besides the Authority of the Church To go forward Christ says his Maâ—â— sty left his Power to his Church even to forgive Sins in Heaven and left his Spirit with them which they exerâ—â—â—â— d after his Resurruction He answers as if he were at 〈◊〉 purposes where then was the Roman 〈…〉 What has where was she to do 〈…〉 left to her 'T is a strange Quâ— stion 〈◊〉 and he I believe the first who ever ask'd where a Church was before she was The Roman was a part of the Catholic as soon as she was a Church till then she was where all the Churches 〈◊〉 the World besides were except that of â— ierusalem and where the Church of â— ierusalem too was before Christ was born in the order of Providenâ—â— But how can it be hence inferr'd that these Powerâ— are now in the Church of Rome 〈◊〉 Roman Cathâ—â—â—â— Church I suppose he means exclusive to all others unless it be made appear that it was Heir-General to all the Apostles As if there needed Logic to infer that Powers left for the Salvation of Mankind remain in being as long as there remains a Manâ—â—â—â— to be saved or Powers left to the Church of Christ are in the Church of Christ and those exclâ— ded from the Powers who are not inclâ— ded â— n the Church or to make appear She is Heir-General to all the Apostles who as visibly as that the Sâ— ripture is in Print is the One Churâ— h 〈…〉 he could be content to be 〈…〉 Point but since his Majesty 〈…〉 purpose to do more than barely mention it I 〈◊〉 it not to mine to stray from the Papers I 〈◊〉 In the process of his Discourse he would 〈◊〉 the ordinary Power of the Keys out of the 〈◊〉 and shall with all my heart so he remove it not out of the Church For since it was with the 〈◊〉 given only to her I do not see what 〈…〉 Title there can be to it but 〈…〉 Her He is by his good favour 〈…〉 removing Miraculous Power out of the 〈…〉 God who slights not the Roman 〈…〉 so much as he continues 〈…〉 her And would he be content to 〈…〉 〈◊〉 on Miracles I would be content to undertake the Proof But alas I fear there needs a Miracle to make People willing that Differences of Religion should have any Issue He would have it question'd What part of the Promise of the Infallible Spirit was to expire with the Apostles what to be continued to the Church in all Ages And how fâ— r that Promise extends Strange Questions for Christians to dispute after they have been answer'd by Christ himself When Christ has extended the Assistance of that Spirit to All his Doctrine and All Time for us to ask which part of that Assistance shall cease or to 〈◊〉 is to ask Which is the Part of Christ's Promise which he will not perform Neither indeed are these Questions with his Distinction between Sin and Errour and subtle Speculations upon it for any thing but to bring in Deposing Doctrine a Comâ— on-place bang'd in every Book of late It is a Theme than which as much as it is 〈◊〉 upon I do not think a worse can be taken 〈◊〉 an Invective against Infallible Assistance pick aâ— d chuse through the whole Bundle When I conâ—â—â— er what has past and reflect there wanted neither Power nor Propension in Men and nevertheless that the Persuasions about Deposing were never settled as those in other Matters which displease the Answerer what he takes for an Argument against Infallible â—â—â—â— tance I take for a strong Argument for it For 〈◊〉 else could be the Cause of that Effect but that 〈◊〉 Power even of willing Men was directed by an 〈◊〉 Assistance of the Divine Spirit He may 〈…〉 shew he pleases with the Errours of 〈◊〉 who will not reflect they never exercis'd the Power of Church-Guidâ—â— upon 〈◊〉 Errours or in his Language so as to 〈…〉 which yet he knows very well no Council of 〈◊〉 he had in his eye ever did As the Church
to 〈◊〉 the Promise of Assistance was made should 〈◊〉 know what it means none in the Roman Catholâ—â— Church ever understood it would always preserve even those who by their Functions are Church-Guides from Errour any more than Sin save when they perform the Office of Church-Guides or expected more than that They should not Authoritatively declare that to be Christ's Doctrine which 〈◊〉 not or that not to be which is Since it is undeniably certain that our Church-Guides have never made any such Declaration in stead of profiting by their Pains we stand wondring what Protestants mean by repeating so often a Tale which has nothing in it Whoever errs among us Church-Guide or not Church-Guide errs on his own Head and not misguided now or at any time by the Church or her Gnides And so long it is as wildly unreasonable to impute those Errours to the Church or any but the erring Particulars as to bring Peter in guilty for the Faults of Paul 〈…〉 imperâ— ect as half-periods use to be but who read the whole will I believe understand it perfectly enough and if he had no mind to speak to this part of it he might have said so without imputing to it an Imperfection of his own making by severing it from its fellows As imperfect as it is I find by it that the Power of which his Majesty speaks was the Power of deciding Matters of Faith and so that when he talks of the Giâ— t of Tongues and the like he talks of what his Majesty did not It informs us too that as great Prerogatives as the Apostles had above other Men subsequent Councils took upon them to make Creeds as well as they Creeds which declare they will undoubtedly perish eternally who believe not entirely what they contain And so might have put us in mind that those who do as much in latter Ages have Precedents for what They do Matters which it seems he takes no delight to speak of As it had been something rugged to have said this Part for all it was left out deserv'd no consideration he smoothly passes to that which next do's And that is That the Church was the Iudge even of Scripâ—â— re it self many Years after the Apostles which Books were Canonical and which were not To which he replys That there is a Iudge of Law and a Iudge of Fact and that the Church Iudges of Fact 〈◊〉 Law Let him call it how he pleases if the Church Judges whether a Book be Canonical or no the Church is the Judge of that Matter and the King said true and 't is but so much erudition lost to Dispute by what name Her Judgment shall go He says besides that The Church of Rome hath no 〈◊〉 priviledge in this Matter but gives its Iudgment as other parts of the Christian World do 〈◊〉 if the Clause he answers spoke of any 〈◊〉 Church or Priviledge It says the Church that 〈◊〉 the whole made up of the Roman and the 〈◊〉 whose same Faith intitles them to the same Appâ— llâ—tion was the Judge of Scripture which Books were Canonical and which were not One may percâ—â— ve the Answerer thinks this is true and he mâ— ght 〈◊〉 said what he thought in two words But he thought fit to spin it out into a Section and 〈◊〉 the Matter so that one Member of his Division is not included in the Matter divided he alone knows why And if They had this Power then I desire to know says his Majesty next how They came to lose it And the Answerer desires to know who are meant by They and what is understood by This Power He had not the Paper by him sure when he askt these Questions For it is there as plain as words can make it that by They is meant the Church and by this Power the Power of deciding Matters of Faith exercised in making Creeds and judging of Canonical Booâ—â— Then he falls to his Dâ— stinctions again and tells us It is one thing for a part of the Church to give Testimony to a matter of Fact and another to assume the Power of making Books Canonical which were not so Pieces of Learning which he may if he please keep in reserve till he have to do with some body who talks of a Part of the Church or making Booâ—â— Canonical which were not By the way he means I suppose making Books not written by 〈◊〉 Iâ—spiration to be written by Divine Inspiration For if he mean making it appear and 〈…〉 and with obligation of 〈◊〉 that a Book of which it is doubted whether it were 〈◊〉 that truly Catholic and Apostolic Church 〈◊〉 which by separting from the Roman they keep 〈◊〉 their stricter Union and with which the Roman 〈◊〉 none For sure he do's not talk of a strict Union with nothing Let him tell us in what Countrâ—â—â— the Men live that People may go to them and learâ— of them what their Faith is and see whether it 〈◊〉 be all one with that of the Answerer and his 〈◊〉 and have something more than his word 〈…〉 stricter Union which he says is between 〈◊〉 What He and those who take his part do 〈◊〉 separating of themselves he tells us but being 〈◊〉 out by an Vsurping Faction in the Church and 〈◊〉 the Conditions of Communion impos'd by tâ— at Fâ—ction and requir'd by him who is own'd â— or Heaâ— of that Church are unjust and unreasonable and 〈◊〉 Authority â— e challenges a meer Vsurpation and tâ— at They are not to be condemn'd for such a Separation which was unavoidable Why unavoidable I beseecâ— him even supposing Usurpation and whatever 〈◊〉 would have Cannot they who are let â— t he 〈◊〉 so unjustly separated from the Communion avoiâ— being separated from the Faith of a Church if they please Is there any Church or Power on Earth which could hinder them from believing 〈◊〉 they were out of Communion what they did 〈◊〉 they were in it Which if 〈◊〉 had done Excommunication it self had not 〈◊〉 them from the Church of which these Papers speak 〈…〉 〈…〉 their voluntary Change of Faith And that Change indeed casts them unavoidably out because to be of the same Faith with a Church and of a 〈◊〉 Faith from her is inconsistent Other casting 〈◊〉 by which he means I suppose Excommunication there is none that I know 'T is true there is a general Excommunication of those who haâ— e chang'd their Faith into Heresie And some are particularly named but not a word of the Church of England or any relating to England but the Wickliâ— ists If any of his We be included in it 't is because they have voluntarily thrust themselves in by embracing the Anathematiz'd Heresies And yet he with his Flourishes and big Talk would have their casting off the Church pass for the Churches casting them out and their voluntary Act be call'd a being cast unavoidably out Cross Language in my Opinion and a very sorry Justification of Separation But
I see no great cause he has to wonder that Princes and the Clergy should be of different minds in Matters of Religion He knows the Case has happened heretofore and that there had been no change of Religion in England if the whole Body of the Clergy and their Advice had been regarded But not to pry into Mens Hearts to see what Interest sways them This is certain that those Princes who prefer their Eternal before their Temporal Interest when they are for the Church of Rome 〈◊〉 good example And I cannot conclude better 〈…〉 praying God to give every body the Grace to follow it and in behalf of Princes thanking him 〈◊〉 minding his Reader that they are not all drawn 〈…〉 of Rome by Interest A DEFENCE OF THE Second Paper THE first Paragraph as the Answerer has handled it concerns the Church of England more than me If She when the King talks of Heresies and Heresies crept in think her self oblig'd by the Answerers thinking presently of her or when she is brought in by his turning immediately to justifie the Dissenters and that by an Argument alledged formerly in her behalf with something more favour to them too than her â— for he allows Them Six Councils and but Four to Herâ— I have nothing to do with it They are Matters between themselves Are there Heresies in England or are there not Is it a sad thing there should or is it not These are the Questions at present and 't will be time enough to talk of the Church of England and Dissenters when they are answered What Power the Church of Rome has to define Heretiâ—â—â— Doctrines will keep cold too For 't is not ask'd How Heresies come to be or are known to be Hereâ—â—◠〈…〉 That 〈◊〉 should lay the stress of his Answer on a 〈◊〉 This Expression as competent as the 〈◊〉 is bâ— t an ordinary way of saying very compeâ—â—â—â— As when we say This Man is as strong as Samâ—◠〈◊〉 as wise as Solomon we mean no more 〈◊〉 that they are very strong and wise And he can 〈◊〉 that Not just so competent as the Apostles is an 〈◊〉 to Whether Competent or no and to 〈◊〉 at a Word fit matter in a Dispute with a King 〈…〉 us see The Apostles for what concerned 〈◊〉 could do no more with their Infallible 〈◊〉 than judge for themselves and act in order 〈…〉 Salvation according to that Judgment And 〈…〉 the Answerer contends is the right of every 〈◊〉 Why then every body is in rigour as competent 〈…〉 for himself as the Apostles And he 〈◊〉 to 〈…〉 His Majesty affirmed by 〈…〉 himself â— or His Majesty only said ther understand nor mean to inquire It concerns those Guides and it is not for me to thrust my self into the Concerns of other Folks And 't is no wonder says the third Paragraph it should be so since that Part of the Nation which looks most like a Church dares not bring the true Arguments against the other Sects for fear they should be turned against themselves and confuted by their own Arguments To this he says first That it is directly level'd against the Church of England As if an Arrow were the sharper or blunter for the Mark at which it is aim'd Let him tell us whether the Assertion be true or not true and talk of Levelling when Levelling is in question He is out even in that too For the Paragraph is in truth levell'd not against the Church of England but her Misfortune It is an Expression of Compassion not Reproach that she has been overaw'd from using the true Arguments against Sectaries Then he answers That if there can be no Authority in a Church without Infallibility or no Obligation to submit to Authority without it then the Church of England doth not use the best Arguments against Sectaries But if there be no ground for Infallibility as if his won Goodness were not Ground enough for God to give it to a Nature which needs it and his Word not Ground enough to believe he has given it then for ought he can see the Church of England hath wisely disown'd the Pretence of Infallibility and made use of the best Arguments against Sectaries from a just Authority and the Sinfulness and Folly of the Sectaries refusing to submit to it I take for granted he speaks of Authority to guide Souls to Heaven such as was in the Primitive Church when the Civil Laws were all against her And pray him if he please to instruct us how such Authority can be in a Church without Infalâ—â— bility We see no body will believe a Man who after he has told his Story should add It may be all falâ— e for any thing he knows nor lend his Money upon a Promise to be repaid which the Borrower declares before-hand he knows not whether he can keep or no. And we are persuaded there should be better Security for our Souls than for our Money or unconcerning Opinions To say a Church is fallible is to say she may be deceiv'd and if she may be deceiv'd her self They may be deceiv'd who follow her Wherefore to tell us that such a Church has notwithstanding Authority to guide us and that we ought submit to it is to tell us we ought be led by a Guide who cannot answer he knows the way we should go and venture eternal Happiness or Misery on a Security which he who gives tells us plainly before-hand may fail us Pray let us consider Christians every body knows are oblig'd to lose all things their Goods their Liberty their Lives rather than their Faith Can it be reasonable to do this for a Faith of which they are conscious to themselves that it may be false for any thing they know And do's not his own Heart tell him who knows nothing of it but by the Relation of a fallible Relator that it may be false for ought he can tell Wherefore to make the Faith of Christians depend on a fallible Authority is to make Christianity with its obliging Duties the most unreasonable thing in Nature What do I say unreasonable It is to make it absolutely impossible For can I be a Christian without believing Is not Belief a judgment that the thing is true which I believe Can I have such a Judgment without a cause able to produce it And is a fallible Authority able to make me judge more than that the thing is fallibly true When Christianity therefore obliges me to believe the thing absolutely true it there be nothing to make me believe but a fallible Authority it obliges me to an Effect without a Cause that is to a downright impossibility And indeed to flat Contradiction For as a thing cannot possibly be true and not true at once to judge it is true is to judge it cannot at the same time be false But I must of necessity judge both if I judge upon a Motive which I know is fallible That it is true by the Judgment to
not say either the one or the other but amuses us with his Descant upon the Metaphor never touching the Plain-song Question Subordinate Judges may be as true Judges and Appeals do as much harm as they will Justice too may be as well administred at home as abroad for any thing we are the wiser or the better For what is it to us what becomes of those Matters We can inform our selves time enough of Lawyers and those who understand Government how they go when it imports us to know At present let the Answerer tell us whether Controversies can or cannot be ended Whether we can be secure that we are in the right way to Heaven or must live on at a venture never knowing whether we live as we should till we come into the next World and find perhaps by a sad Experience how we have liv'd in this We are all Travellers to the Country of Happâ—â—â— and as a wrong way can never lead right it imports us as much as Happiness imports to travel in tâ—â— right Road. He who undertakes to assist us in the â—â—â—ficulties started by these Papers acquits himself by taking an Allegorical Expression in a Literal sense and then by shewing Erudition upon it turning our Thoughts from the Moral For while we are entertain'd with literally true Judges and Appeals and Justice unless we think of two things at once there is no minding Differences in Religion So that the Assistance which it seems he meant was his Assistance to remove those Difficulties out of sight and the Danger he apprehended the Danger lest people should once perceive how 't is with those who are out of the Catholic Church that they have no accountable Means to end a Controversie or satisfie a Difficulty save by cleanly conveying it out of the way if it become importunate But for any Assistance towards the only difficulty which imports Whether People be in the right way to Heaven or no Whether Controversies can or cannot be ended we have none from the Answerer but may guess from his silence he either thinks They cannot or wishes They would not He asks again Whether such a one pretending to a Power he has no right to must be Iudge in his own Cause when he is the greatest Offender This Such a one if he take it as in all reaâ— on he should as His Majesty do's signifies Him or Those who are appointed to administer Iustice. Do's such a one in his conceit pretend without right to the Power of Administring Justice And if they be appointed to administer it in all Causes must they not administer it in their own Pray turn this Doctrine to another Subject and suppose a Question started in England about the king's Prerogative By what Authority should or could this Question be judg'd but the king's As much his own Cause as it is we must not have another Authority set up in His Kingdom to judge of Differences belonging to His Kingdom For deciding Differences being one Part of the Kingly Office it would be to set up another King It is palpable that to apply the Exception of ones own Cause to Supreme Powers is to make them not Supreme and yet as irrational and as destructive as it is People take the confidence to do it But if the Answerer mean by his Such a one a Stranger proceeding by his arbitrary Will there neither is nor can be such a one No Member of the Church can be more a Stranger in the Church than an Englishman in England And for arbitrary Will in our Case there cannot be a wilder Fancy Christ commanded his Apostles to teach his Doctrine to all Nations They obey'd his Command and their sound is gone forth through the whole earth Can the arbitrary Will of any Mortal stretch it to the utmost extent of Imagination alter or conceal or disguise a Doctrine known and practis'd by a great many Nations some very remote and those which are Neighbours agreeing in few things besides that Doctrine Then as the king would have his Appeal for Justice made to the Catholic Church so many Millions as make up that Church are a very pleasant arbitrary such a one This says His Majesty is our Case here in England in matters Spiritual For the Protestants are not of the Church of England as 't is the true Church from whence there can be no Appeal but because tâ—â— Discipline of that Church is conformable at that present to their Fancies which as soon as it shall contradict or vary from They are really he out of an uncorrect Copy says ready to imbrace or joyn with the next Congregation of People whose Discipline and Worship agrees with their Opinion at that time His Copy has whose Discipline or Worship agrees with the Opinion of that time Here is the Moral of the Allegory which we find by Iustice to be done understood deciding differences in Matters Spiritual that is in Faith By those who are to administer Iustice the Church from which there is no Appeal Because Protestants do not think themselves concluded by the Decisions of the Church of England but adhere to her because they like them at present The king infers there is no Authoritative deciding of Spiritual Differences in England no thrusting out the Heresies crept in but every one in consequence of his Principles is to leave the Church of England as often as she decides against his Perswasions and take up with the next Congregation which is more to his humour What says the Answerer to this Why that the Sense of this Period is not so clear but that one may easily mistake about it Very easily without question For there is not an easier thing in the World than to mistake when one will give his mind to it He is the first tho' I believe who thought his late Majesty did not speak intelligible English But the Answerer will help him out and tell us what is aim'd at As if what a Man says and what he aims at by saying it were not two things as difâ— ereâ— t as End and Means But let him set the Cart before the Horse for me and tell us what was aim'd at That we of the Church of England have no 〈◊〉 upon us but that of our own Iudgments â— nd when that changes we may joyn with Independents or Presbyterians as we do now with the Church of England For one half His Majesty I believe did think the Church of England as things go has no tie upon her Members but his aim was she might and it depends on her self whether she will or no. The other half was not only aim'd at but directly said and more that who adhere to Day to the Church of England in vertue of their own Fancies not only may but ought quit her for the next Congregation which is more agreeable to those Fancies How do's the Answerer avoid that Consequence Why truly by talking of another Matter For he asks What security can be greater
than that of our own Iudgments As if it pinched there His Majesty talks of those who do not believe as the Church of England do's for this reason because they are taught by a Church from which there is no Appeal that is who have not that Motive for their Judgments which he took for the only truly reasonable Motive And while he is speaking of Motives the Answerer falls a talking of Judgments The difficulty is not whether Judgment affords Security A Judgment grounded on true Reason can no more change than Reason but whether there be any security in those Judgments which are made on unsecure Motives Or if you will what Security there is in that Judgment which the Answerer offers for Security 'T is as in Land The Security is good where the Title is unquestionable but if that be doubtful there is no Money to be borrow'd on the Land And he will have us take for Security the Judgment of which we are not satisfy'd that it is it self secure Once again His Majesty thought Church-security the only Security in this Matter And it rests with the Answerer to shew that Protestants either have this or other true Security to shew what other Foundation and Pillar of Truth there is besides the Church how it can be a Foundation without Infallibility and People have reason to trust their Souls to what may deceive them In short what good account they can give of the Hope which is in them who learn the Faith by which they think to please God otherwise than from those whom he appointed to teach it Till he do this as obscurely as his Majesty speaks People will see they have nothing to trust to for their Salvation but Fancy nor the Church of England for their company But He dares appeal to the World whether They have not made it appear that it is not Fancy but Iudgment which hath made them firm to the Church of England Dares he in earnest put it to the Catholic World any more than we to the Protestant To what purpose these great words when he knows before-hand nothing will nor can come of them It had been a great deal more to purpose since Fancy and Judgment in this place signifie a rational or not rational Persuasion to have shew'd that they truly have Reason who are firm to the Church of England and that They are indeed firm For that Firmness may as well be pretended as Reason for itâ—â— and they may desire to pass for firm to Her 〈◊〉 make her not firm to her self But for big 〈◊〉 none are better at it than Cowards out of Gun-shot Might it not asks he on as well have been said That the Pâ—â—â—â— tants of the Church of England adhered to the Crowâ— in the Times of Rebellion out of 〈◊〉 and not out of Iudgment His Zeal for the Church of England is wondrouâ— unlucky As no body thought of detracting from the just Praises of the Church of England and every body must acknowledge her Doctrine in this Point is very Orthodox and her Practice in the Times of Rebellion conformable to it there was no need to mention this matter And yet he will by all means bring it in against himself Many he knows did desert her and her Doctrine in this Point at that time so many that the Rebellion peradventure was indebted for its Success to those Deserters For had not the ill-affected Rabble been countenanc'd and headed by Men who had perhaps all their Life before conform'd to the Church of England the Rebellion either would not have been at all or not so unfortunately prosperous Now as it is plain that if those who deserted had ever adhered to her with a persuasion that they were oblig'd to believe what she â— aught They could not have deserted her in this Point who always taught Loyalty This very Case proves what the King asserts That till they do so there is no security of their adhering to her For they may desert her in any other Point of Christ's Doctrine as well as they did in this and for ought appears will when they meet with the same Interest or whatever Motive They had to desert her then In the last place He tries to turn the Argument â— pon the Church of Rome to which he asks why any adhere but because it is agreeable to their Iudgment so to do This Actor went off the Stage but now and needed not return so soon with 〈…〉 a Part. For what do's he mean by Adheringâ—â— Believing I suppose that the Church of 〈…〉 right For he talks not sure of acting 〈…〉 conformity to our inward 〈…〉 but Hypocrites do in all their Actions 〈…〉 he mean it of the inward Persuasion to ask why They adhere but because they judge they ought is in other words Why do they adhere but because they adhere For their Judgment is their Adhesion To 〈…〉 People adhere to a Church with every body 〈◊〉 signifies What Reason or Motive have they 〈…〉 adhering To which Question with respect to the â— oman Catholic Church the Answer in the words of the Paragraph is That People are of her as 't is the true Church from whence there can be no Appeal or because she is the Church which Christ has now on Earth with whom his Doctrine was deposited and from whom only it can be learn'd In the words or St. Austin I am kept in the Bosom of the Catholic Church by the consens of People and Nations by an Authority begun by Miracles 〈◊〉 by Hope increas'd by Charity 〈◊〉 by Antiquity by a Succession of Bishops from St. Peter to whom 〈…〉 〈…〉 where Catholics meet none of them have the 〈…〉 him to their Congregations The Answerer will tell us when he thinks sit what Answer he thinks proper to be made for other Churches In the mean time let us reslect what he has answer'd to the Paragraph He has told us That there is no Security greater than that of our Judgments That theirs is Judgment not Fancy and particularly was so in the times of Rebellion And that they Judge in the Church of 〈◊〉 too What is all this to the Paragraph which says in short That because Protestants have no firm Motive for their adhering to the Church of England they cannot be firm to her Do's he make it appear their Motive is firm Or how They will be firm without one This little is all there was before him is their Judgment solidly grounded or is it not the only and whole business What need was there to talk of Judgment in common when the Question is of their Judgment in this Particular Or what serves it for but to make a shew and fill up a Page There may be as much Security in the Judgment as there will and Protestants be never the better unless there be Security in their Judgment They will I hope since their Souls are at stake consider what 〈◊〉 do to venture them where those who write
〈…〉 are not able to shew they have any 〈◊〉 It is enough to my purpose to have 〈◊〉 that his Majesty asks for a secure Motive and 〈…〉 no Answer 〈…〉 to see by his Objections against 〈…〉 what he takes for Fancy and 〈…〉 According to him They 〈…〉 and They Iudge who to be sure of a right 〈…〉 â—â—â—â—â—rences in Religion look out for a Fallible Iudge and hazard their Salvation on what may deceive them They Fancy who are for an Vnwritten Word They Iudge who think the Word of God is made by Writing Giving Honour to God by the Worship of Images is Fancy and Iudgment that giving Honour to God is not giving Honour to God For giving Honour any way is plainly giving Honour Mediators of Intercession besides the Mediator of Redemption are Fancy and so to think because only one could Redeem us no body besides can Pray for us is Iudgment The Doctrine of Concomitancy Fancy and true Christian Iudgment that the Body and Blood of Christ can nâ—â—â— e sepâ— rated and he die again A Substantial change in the Eâ—â—ments Fancy and right Iudgment that the Apostles did not understand what Christ said to them or not instruct the Church as they believ'd themselves So 't is with his last instance of Pargatory and all the rest Our Judgment is the Judgment of the Church from which there is no Appeal and it rests with the Answerer to shew how any other Judgment can be more than meer Fancâ—â— or 〈◊〉 to dispatch the next Paragraph under one Men are giddy or settled as they are guided or not 〈◊〉 by Reason and he should shew 〈◊〉 Reason besides can settle them 〈…〉 I desire to know therefore says His Majesty of every serious Considerer of these things whether the great Work of our Salvation ought to depend on such a sandy Foundation as this That is says the Answerer the Private Iudgment Can a Man expect there should be any Answer to this but that our Salvation ought or ought not depend on Sand or that the Foundation of Private Judgment is or is not Sandy And yet the Answerer makes a shift to spin out a Paragraph without one word of either I says he have seriously considered this matter and must declare That I â— ind no Christian Church built on a more sandy Foundation than that which pretends to be settled on a Rock as to part of her Faith If that Church build on Sand too she will I suppose hear on 't in due time At present he who considers so much might consider that he is not ask'd what he has considered or what he has found but whether any Church That if he will among the rest ought to build on Sand and whether Private Judgment be more than Sand Plain I or No if it please him first and then a l' autre Then he tells us That no understanding Man builds upon his own Iudgment He takes I suppose the Advice of his Friends in Compliment For after all he is to be his own Judge But is his Judgment and their Advice and what you will besides the Judgment of the Church without Appeal a Foundation to build upon There is the Knot which the Answerer should now untie But no Man of understanding can believe without his Judgment Sure enough nor no Man of not-understanding neither for his Belief is his Judgment But I am cloy'd with this Dish What Stand there is to set it upon is now the Question I appeal says the Answerer to any ingenuous Man whether he doth not as much build upon his own Iudgment who chuseth the Church as he that chuseth Scripture for his Rule Every ingenuous Man who reads these Papers will tell him that to build upon ones own Judgment is the same with following ones own Fancy being ones own Iudge and what other Terms a Master of English in all Senses used to express in variety of Phrases Iudging unreasonably Let the Answerer in stead of telling us what we all know as well as he That every one Judges who Judges tell 's what we do not know what Reason they have to chuse the Scripture not the Church for their Rule He that chuseth the Church hath many more Difficulties to conquer than the other hath How so For this sounds like a Paradox Those many more Difficulties to my thinking must be conquer'd before one can come at Scripture For unless we first chuse the Church for a Rule to find out Scripture by whom alone St. Austin has told us we know it there will be no assurance of Scripture for us to chuse And then in the choice of the Church there is but one thing to mind and that no difficulty neither where or which the Church is When that is settled a Man has no more to do but believe as he is taught and live as he believes Who thinks he has conquer'd the difficulties about the Letter of Scripture as which Books belong to the Canon which not which is a right Translation or Reading which wrong and whatever falls in his way has at least as many remaining as he has past and which if he find not insuperable he is I believe the more beholding to his Will For I know not how to have any Opinion of his Iudgment who only because such words will bear his Sense as they will it may be twenty others all abetted by Men of Name ventures his Soul upon 't that his is just the Sense meant by the Holy Ghost But let us hear his Reason For the Church can never be a Rule without the Scriptures but the Scriptures may without the Church that is without Faithful For a Congregation of them is a Church Will he persuade us there were no Faithful in the World before Moses No Christians before the New Testament which was written by Christians and no part of it till several Years after the Resurrection Do's not St. Irenaeus inform us that more than one Nation had the Doctrine of Christ and no Scriptures And will he make us believe that all these were Faithful without any Rule for their Faith and that the Church depends on Writing which if it should be lost in the World there would be an end of the Church Again of what and to whom should Scripture be a Rule if there were no Faith nor Faithful Paradoxes a part and the attempt to unriddle one by another let the Answerer tell us if he please whether our Salvation ought to stand upon Sand and to deal plainly whether he think that they who stand whether on the Church or Scripture do not build both on Sand For by saying nothing for Scripture and yet making it worse on the Churches side one would guess he is of Opinion there is no steadiness in either And it would be well to speak plain that People may leave off dealing where there is no Security and troubling themselves no longer with the uncertainties of Religion turn their Thoughts to more solid
therefore wish'd People in stead of floating uncertainly up and down in the Ocean of Disputes to take Port in that one Church which Christ has upon Earth and to which Power was given to govern us in Matters of Faith and a promise of perpetual assistance Which Church he says is vibsily the Roman Catholic The Answerer flatly denies the Roman Catholic to be the one Church of Christ for Reasons ever since St. Cyprians Days condemn'd by all Christians and never minds that he denies two terms the same with a third to be the same between themselves For Church of Christ and Catholic Church are the same both signifying all the particular Churches which believe the Doctrine of Christ. Again Roman Catholic is the same too with Catholic for both signifie likewise all the same Churches with the Roman for one of the number which the Answerer acknowledges she is Catholic says All and who says All says Roman if she be one And who says Roman Catholic says those very All neither more nor less And yet the Answerer can fancy a difference For the rest he gives no direct Answer that I remember to any one Question yet hovers so about it that one must keep his thoughts very attentive not to have them diverted quite another way As for Certainty or Uncertainty they are Matters which he seems not to mind Not but that he talks of a sure Compass and Infallible Rule but he never tells us whether or how a Man shall be sure that he do's indeed steer by that Compass or is guided by that Rule Those great sounds vanish into Conscience at last and that Conscience may be right or wrong for any care he takes as perhaps he thinks it equal whether the one or the other The King desired People should have sure hold and shews them where they may He is only solicitous to keep them from fastning there and leaves them to find another if they can of themselves or be content if they will without any If he have a Pique to the Roman Catholic he may shew them another Catholic Church or if a Church be needless on what they may rest securely without a Church If on Scripture he may shew them how they may safely stake their Souls that they do not mistake it If on Conscience how they may securely trust it Let People be but safe and I ask no more But as there is after all but one way to Heaven the King shews it and he imputes deceit to him for his pains and then sets up for the faithful Friend himself who will neither let them go that way nor shew them that there is any other And thus it stands between them It is for the Reader to consider which of the two gives him better Counsel and where he can find better Security than what His Majesty offers or whether Security be needless One would think is not like to take up much Consideration in our Country whether in a concern of infinite more value than all the Money which troubles so many Lawyers and Scriveners one should deal without looking after Security And yet by whatever charm it happens there needs a great deal of Grace to make People sensible in this Case of what in all others they are but too much their greatest concerns God of his Mercy grant it to all who ask it and to all who by not asking it shew they more need it A DEFENCE OF THE Third Paper I Dare appeal to all unprejudic'd Readers and especially to those who have any sense of Piety whether upon perusal of the Paper written by Her late Highness the Duchess they have not found in it somewhat which touch'd them to the very Soul whether they did not plainly and perfectly discern in it the Spirit of Meekness Devotion and Sincerity which animates the whole Discourse and whether the Reader be not satisfied that she who writ it has open'd her Heart without disguise so as not to leave a Scruple that she was not in earnest I am sure I can say for my own particular that when I read it first in Manuscript I could not but consider it as a Discourse extremely moving plain without Artifice and discovering the Piety of the Soul from which it flow'd Truth has a Language to it self which 't is impossible for Hypocrisie to imitate Dissimulation could never write so warmly nor with so much life What less than the Spirit of Primitive Christianity could have dictated her Words The loss of Friends of worldly Honours and Esteem the Defamation of ill Tongues and the Reproach of the Cross all these though not without the struglings of Flesh and Blood were surmounted by her as if the Saying of our Saviour were always sounding in her Ears What will it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his Soul I think I have amplified nothing in relation either to this Pious Lady or her Discourse I am sure I need not And now let any unbias'd and indifferent Reader compare the Spirit of the Answerer with hers Do's there not manifestly appear in him a quite different Character Need the Reader be inform'd that he is disingenuous soul-mouth'd and shuffling and that not being able to answer plain Matter of Fact he endeavours to evade it by Suppositions Circumstances and Conjectures like a cunning Barreter of Law who is to manage a sinking Cause the Dishonesty of which he cannot otherwise support than by defaming his Adversary Her only Business is to satisfie her Friends of the inward Workings of her Soul in order to her Conversion and by what Methods she quitted the Religion in which she was educated He on the contrary is not satisfied unless he question the Integrity of her Proceedings and the Truth of her plain Relation even so far as to blast what in him lies her Blessed Memory with the imputation of Forgery and Deceit as if she had given a false Account not only of the Passages in her Soul and the Agonies of a troubl'd Conscience only known to God and to her self but also of the Discourses which she had with others concerning those Disquiets Every where the Lie is to be cast upon her either directly in the Words of the Bishop of Winchester which he 〈◊〉 or indirectly in his own in which his spiteful Deligence is most remarkable In his Answer to the two former Papers there seems to have been some restraint upon the virulence of his Genius though even there he has manifestly past the Bounds of Decency and Respect But so soon as he has got loose from disputing with Crown'd Heads he shews himself in his pure Naturals and is as busie in raking up the Ashes of their next Relations as if they were no more of kin to the Crown than the New Church of England is to the Old Reformation of their Great-Grandfathers But God forbid that I should think the whole Episcopal Clergy of this Nation to be of his Latitudinarian Stamp many of them
Retail that it might not be thought she us'd the ordinary Means One thing I had omitted which was that the Bishop affirms in his letter to her Highness that she had made him a Promise in case any Writing were put into her Hand by those of the Roman Church she would send it either to him or the Bishop of Oxford Why do's our Author put down that Promise thus at large If he means any thing more by it besides a Justification of his Bishop for having done his part which signifies just nothing he would tacitely insinuate that she broke he Word by not sending any such Writing to him If so he is at his Legerdemain again He would have it thought she kept not her Promise but do's not positively affirm it But since it is manfsest by the order of time in her Paper that she neither sent for any Priest nor conferr'd with any Learn'd Catholic till after she had done with the two Bishops it may and ought to be suppos'd that she receiv'd no Writings from any of that Religion for if she had she would certainly have mention'd them If then the Bishop of Winchester would insinuate that she had such Papers which she sent not to him according to her Engagement I may at least answer with my Author That the Lady was dead long before the Bishop publish'd his Letter so that the Circumstances therein mention'd cannot be so fully clear'd But to return to our Answerer He has brought us at length to the several Discourses which her Highness had with the two Bishops his Grace of Canterbury and the Bishop of Worcester and since he has thought fit to put all that concern'd this Matter into one long Paragraph quoted from the Duchess I must follow his Example These are her Words After this I spoke severally to two of the best Bishops we have in England who both told me there were many things in the Roman Church which it were very much to be wish'd we had kept as Confession which was no doubt commanded of God that Praying for the Dead was one of the ancient things in Christianity that for their parts they did it daily tho' they would not own it And afterwards pressing one of them very much upon the other Points he told me That if he had been bred a Catholic he would not change his Religion but that being of another Church wherein he was sure were all things necessary to Salvation he thought it very ill to give that Scandal as to leave that Church wherein he had receiv'd his Baptism All these Discourses did but add more to the desire I had to be a Catholic and gave me the most terrible Agonies in the world c This he confesses seems to be to the purpose And where he confesses the least Advantage on our side the Reader may swear there is somewhat more than ordinary in the matter But he retrenches immediately and kicks down the Pail by adding this Restriction If there were not some Circumstances and Expressions very much mistaken in the Representation of it Yet in the next Line again as if he were asham'd of his own fearfulness he is for making a bold Sally and putting all to the push For supposing the utmost to be allow'd says he there could be no Argument from hence drawn for leaving the Communion of our Church But he restrains that too with this Caution If the Bishops Authority and Example did signifie any thing with her Thus from yielding at first he comes to modifie his Concession and from thence to strike out magnanimously But then he retreats again with another if 'T is a sign he is uneasie when he tosses and turns so often in a Breath and that he is diffident of his Cause when he shifts his Plea 'T is evident that the Duchess laid a great stress on these Concessions and well she might for what a startle would it give to a doubting Soul which already had taken the Alarm to hear two Bishops whereof one was Primate of All England renouncing and condemning two of the establish'd Articles of their Church But 't is well known that those two Prelates were not nor if they were now living would be the only Clergy-men of the Church of England who are of opinion they have over-reform'd themselves in casting off Prayers for the Dead and consequently the Doctrine of a Third Place But these are Church of England Men of the old stamp betwixt whom and the Faction of this Answerer there is just as much difference as betwixt a true Episcopal Man and a Latitudinarian and this latter in plain terms is no otherwise different from a Presbyterian then by whatsoever Titles and Dignities he is distinguish'd So that our Answerer was much in the right to skip over the first half of this Paragraph without answering in this place and to gallop to the last Sentence of it which begins with Bishop Blandford's saying That if he had been bred in the communion of the Roman Church he would not change his Religion Whither as in Duty bound I follow him To over-ballance the weight of these Concessions our Author would have us think that the subsequent Words of the Bishop ought to have had greater force to have kept her in the Communion of the Protestant Church than the former to have drawn her from it for the Bishop comes off with this Excuse That being of another Church wherein he was sure were all things necessary to Salvation he thought it very ill to give that Scandal as to leave that Church wherein he receiv'd his Baptism First take notice That the Duchess says the Bishop was pressed by her very much before he made the Concession That if he had been bred a Catholic he would not have chang'd which shews that a Truth was forc'd out of him which he would willingly have conceal'd For both in regard to his own Credit and the retaining of so Great a Person in his Church it was not his Interest to have yielded that a Catholic might be saved at least on as easie Terms as Protestant But he goes farther when he confesses That if he had been bred a Catholic he would not have alter'd his Religion For therein he seems even to regret his being bred a Protestant at least he yields that all things necessary to Salvation were in the Roman Catholic Church for otherwise had he been educated in it he ought in conscience to have chang'd which he owns he would not have done Now this is manifestly more than what he said for the Church of England for his following Words are rather an Excuse for his Continuance in his Church than Argument to dissuade her Highness from turning Catholic He thought it very ill to give that Scandal to leave the Church wherein he was Baptiz'd Now the Word Scandal plainly relates to his own Person and signifies no more than that he was asham'd to change For it was impossible for him to think he should sin
bare word without Repetition Yet this notwithstanding he might have some inward grudgings that his Pupil thought him not so great a Doctor But it is not fit that a Matter of such importance should end in a bare Ay and No on either side for though the Parties have been so long dead yet there is a Witness still alive and such a one that all Loyal Subjects are bound to joyn with me in Prayers for the long continuance of His Life and even for His continuance in the True Religion as far as the English Liturgycan oblige them The Duchess thought her self bound to make his Royal Highness acquainted with every one of these several Conferences which she had either with Archbishop Sheldon or Bishop Blandford and that account was the very same in substance with what she communicates to her Friends in this present Paper as he is pleas'd to permit me to assure the World after having had the Honour to hear him solemnly affirm it which puts an end to the whole Matter of Dispute and this which follows is as Authentic The Day it pleased Almighty God to call her Highness to his Mercy some Relations of hers who are yet living were desirous that she should speak with the Bishop of Worcester which the Duchess did not absolutely refuse upon their importunity but requested the then Duke to stop the Bishop a little in the Anti-chamber and prepare him according to her directions before he enter'd the Bed-chamber accordingly His Highness having met the Bishop acquainted him That she was actually reconcil'd to the Catholic Church he then enquir'd Whether she were fully satisfied in all Points of the Doctrine which she had embrac'd and the Duke answer'd that she was entirely satisfied in the Doctrine of the Catholic Church at length the Bishop ask'd Whether she had already receiv'd the last Sacraments of the Church naming particularly those of the Blessed Eucharist and the Extreme Vnction and it being reply'd by the Duke that she had receiv'd them the Bishop answered That then he doubted not but that her Soul was in a very safe condition before they parted His Royal Highness told him That it was the desire of the Duchess he would not trouble her with any Matter of Dispute nor offer to Pray with her but if he had any Spiritual Counsel fitting for a Person in her condition in order to prepare her for her Death he might freely tender it upon this he was admitted to her Bed-chamber and made her a brief Exhortation after which his stay there was very short This being matter of Fact and of unquestionable Truth I hope the Answerer will acquiesce in it What he will think of his Bishop concerns not me but as a Protestant he has reason for his thanking God that the Cause of his Church do's not depend on the singular Opinion of one Bishop in it It appears plainly by this Relation that the Bishop of Worcester was ignorant almost to the last of her Conversion so that if that will serve our Authors turn he is acquitted from intending any such Act of Charity but that he contributed to it without any such intention is apparent Yet our Author will not so sit down he will condemn her Highness from her own words again and prove from her saying that she ow'd the Blessing of her Conversion to God Almighty that therefore the Bishop could have no hand in it What obligation has he to defend the Honour of his Church by a piece of Sophistry she ow'd it wholly to Almighty God for of our selves we can do nothing but as the Answerer confesses this excluded not her own endeavours God inspir'd her with a desire of being reconcil'd to his Church in answer to her frequent Prayers not by immediate illumination or shewing her the right belief miraculously but by affording her the ordinary means and conducting her by his good Spirit in the use of them If she had been immediately enlightn'd she needed not to have recourse to any of the Bishops but it pleas'd God who often works Good out of Evil that the Arguments they us'd or rather the Answers which they made produc'd a contrary effect and added more to the desire she had to be a Catholic in this sense therefore it may be said that the Bishops sent her to the Priest for an unresistable over-ruling Power made them contribute to her change by opposing it and the very hands which labour'd to hold her fast in the Protestant Perswasion carried her half Seas over and put her into other Hands which carried her the other half Truly they would have receiv'd hard measure if they had been found guilty on the Statute of Perswasion who far from endeavouring to make her change disswaded her from changing tho' the Protestant Flints happen'd to strike Catholic Fire So that I cannot but think there was an extraordinary Hand of Providence in her Case and of which she had reason to be extraordinary sensible But we must have I perceive a care of Praying and owning benefits from God for that or nothing made her pass for an Enthusiast with the Answerer She did nothing besides Praying which our Author do's not acknowledge it her duty to have done She read the History which was put into her Hands to confirm her in her first belief she examin'd the Scripture she conferr'd with her Divines and yet he can make an obstinate Woman of her for doing that very thing to which he wou'd advise her But says our Author All pretenders to Enthusiasm do as solemnly and wholly ascribe the Blessing to Almighty God and look on it as the effect of such Prayers as she made to him in France and Flanders They ascribe it indeed wholly to God in our Authors Sense but not in hers for she meant not immediate illumination by the word wholly as I have already prov'd they may look on their false light as the effect of their Prayers but she looks on her Conversion as the effect of hers after having used the means He had thought he says that the pretence to a private Spirit or Enthusiasm for he joyns them both afterwards had not been at this time allowed in the Church of Rome Somebody once thought otherwise or he had never diverted the young Gallants of the Town with his merry Book concerning the Fanaticism of the Church of Rome He next enquires what need she had of an infallible Church if she owed her Change so wholly to Almighty God Wholly is already explain'd to him and then his Argument is of no more force against her then against all Catholics who have once been Protestants which is a new Subject of Dispute and forrein to the Argugument in hand Her Conclusion as he tells us is That she would never have chang'd if she could have sav'd her Soul otherwise Whereupon he infers If this were true she had good reason for her change if it were not true as most certainly it was not she had none But
to turn round a mans Hat and to strike him on the Face but the advantage is the greater in a lusty Blow But the Handle by which our Answerer would have the Reformation taken is not by the Causes and Effects the Means and Management and indeed the whole Series of History these are nothing to concern his present Enquiry though they rais'd such Scruples in the Duchess and will do in any other conscientious Reader he will have the Reformation consider'd his own way that is in the Political part of it and the Ecclesiastical Now the Political part if you observe him he gives for gone at the first dash It was grounded he says on such Maxims as are common to Statesmen at all Times and in all Churches who labour to turn all Revolutions and Changes to their own Advantage That is 't is common for Statesmen to be Atheists at the bottom To be seemingly of that Religion which is most for their Interest To crush and ruine that from which they have no future prospect of Advantage and to joyn with its most inveterate Enemies without consideration of their King's Interest and this was the Case of the Duke of Somerset All which together amounts to this That 't is no matter by what Means a Reformation be compass'd by what Instruments it be brought to pass or with what Design though all these be never so ungodly 't is enough if the Reformation it self be made by the Legislative Power of the Land The matter of Fact then is given up only 't is fac'd with Recriminations That Alexander the Sixth for example was as wicked a Pope as King Henry was a King As if any Catholic deny'd that God Almighty for Causes best known to his Divine Wisdom has not sometimes permitted impious Men to sit in that supream Seat and even to intrude into it by unlawful Means That Alexander the Sixth was one of the worst of Men I freely grant which is more then I can in Conscience say of Henry the Eighth who had great and Kingly Vertues mingled with his Vices That the Duke of Somerset rais'd his Estate out of Church Lands our Author excuses no other ways than by retorting that Popes are accustom'd to do the like in consideration of their Nephews whom they would greaten But though 't is a wicked thing for a Pope to mispend the Church Revenues on his Relations 't is to be consider'd he is a Secular Prince and may as lawfully give out of his Temporal Incomes what he pleases to his Favourite as another Prince to his But as our Author charges this Miscarriage home upon some late Popes of the former and the present Age so I hope he will exempt his present Holiness from that Note No Common Father of God's Church from St. Peter even to him having ever been more bountiful in expending his Revenues for the Defence of Christendom or less interessed in respect of his Relations whom he has neither greatn'd nor so much as suffer'd to enter into the least Administration of the Government But after all what have these Examples to do with this Ladies Conversion Why our Author pretends that these bad Popes and their ill Proceedings ought as reasonably to have hindred the Duchess from entring into the Catholic Church as the like Proceedings under Henry the Eighth Edward the Sixth and Queen Elizabeth might move her Highness to leave the Protestant The Subject in hand was the Pretended Reformation The Duchess observ'd the scandalous and abominable Effects of it that an inordinate Lust was one principal Cause of the Separation that the Reformation it self was begun by worldly Interests in the Duke of Somerset and carried on by the Ambition of Queen Elizabeth Have the Examples produc'd by our Author on the contrary side any thing to do with a Reformation Suppose in the first place that she had never read nor heard any of those things concerning Pope Alexander or the advancing of Nephews by profusion of the Church-Treasure the first is very possible and she might interpret candidly the latter But make the worst of it on the one side there was only a Male-administration of a settled Government from which no State either Spiritual or Temporal can always be exempt on the other side here is a total Subversion of the Old Church in England and the setting up a New a changing of receiv'd Doctrines and the Direction of God's Holy Spirit pretended for the Change so that she might reasonably judge that the Holy Ghost had little to do with the Practices of ill Popes without thinking the worse of the Establish'd Faith but she could never see a new one erected on the Foundations of Lust Sacrilege and Usurpation without great Scruples whether the Spirit of God were assisting in those Councils As for his Method of Enquiry Whether there was not a sufficient Cause for the Reformation in the Church Whether the Church of England had not sufficient Authority to reform it self and Whether the Proceedings of the Reformation were not justifiable by the Rules of Scripture and the Ancient Church I may safely joyn Issue with him upon all three Points and conclude in the Negative That there was no sufficient Cause to reform the Church in Matters of Faith because there neither were nor can be any such Errours embrac'd and own'd by it The Church of England has no Authority of Reforming her self because the Doctrine of Christ cannot be reformed nor a National Synod lawfully make any Definitions in Matters of Faith contrary to the Judgment of the Church Universal of the present Age shewn in her Public Liturgies that Judgment being equivalent to that of a General Council of the present Age. And for the third Point The Proceedings of the Reformation were not justifiable by the Rule of Scripture according to the right Interpretation of it by the Fathers and Councils which are the true Judges of it nor consequently by the Rules of the Ancient Church But Calvin's Excuse must be your last Refuge Nos discessionem a toto mundo facere coacti sumus We are compell'd to forsake the Communion or to separate from all the Churches of the World These says our Author She confesses were but Scruples According to his mannerly way of arguing with the King I might ask him These what Do's he mean these Scruples were but Scruples For the Word these begins a Paragraph But I am asham'd of playing the Pedant as he has done I suppose he means these Passages of Heylyn only rais'd some Scruples in her which occasion'd her to examine the Points in difference by the Holy Scripture And now says he she was in the right way for Satisfaction provided she made use of the best Helps and Means for understanding it and took in the Assistance of her Spiritual Guides That she did take in those Guides is manifest by her own Papers though both of them the more the Pity did but help to mislead her into the Enemies Country But
then for our comfort neither of them were true Church of England Men though they were both Bishops and one of them no less than Primate of All England And now for a relishing bit before we rise he has kept in store for us the four Points which about the midst of her Paper the Duchess told us she found so easie in the Scripture that she wondered she had been so long without finding them He will needs fall into Dispute with her about them tho he knows before hand that she will not Dispute with him This is a Kind of Petition to her that she will permit him to make that difficult which she found easie for every thing becomes hard by chopping Logic upon it I am sure enough that the Wall before me is White and that I can go to it but put me once upon unriddling Sophisms I shall not be satisfied of what colour the Wall is nor how 't is possible for me to stir from the place in which I am Alas if People would be as much in earnest as she was and read the Scriptures with the same disposition the same unprejudic'd sincerity in their Hearts and docility in their Understanding seeking to bend their Judgments to what they find not what they find to their Judgments more I believe would find things as easie as she did and give the Answerer more frequent occasion for his derision of a willing mind But not to dilate on that matter I presume he will not pretend by his Disputing to make any thing plainly appear against her If he can let him do it and end Controversie in a moment for every one can see plain things and all Christians must be concluded by the Scripture But he knows well enough there is no such thing to be perform'd A Mist may be raised and interposed through which the Eye shall not discern what otherwise it would if nothing but the due medium were betwixt and the Object before it And that is all the fruit of this sort of Disputation and all the Assistance for which the Answerer was so earnest Upon the whole his mortal quarrel to the Duchess is that she would not become an Experiment of the perfection to which the Art of Learned Obscurity is improv'd in this our Age. And the Honour he has done to the Church of England is that he has us'd her Name to countenance the Defamation of a Lady I suspected whether he would bring it when I saw that Honour pretended in the beginning of his Pamphlet If he thinks his Bishops have reflected a Scandal on his Church by their Discourses with the Duchess he ought to have proceeded a more reasonable way than to insinuate that she forg'd them without proving it If she had been living and he had subscrib'd his Name to so infamous a Libell he knows the English of a Scandalum Magnatum for an Innuendo is considered in that case and three indirect insinuations will go as far in Law towards the giving a downright Lie as three Foils will go towards a Fall in Wrastling To Conclude I leave it to the Judgment of the Impartial Reader what occasion our Answerer has had for his Song of Triumph at the end of his Scurrilous Sawcy Pamphlet I have treated him as one single Answerer tho' properly speaking his Name is Legion but tho the Body be possessed with many evil Spirits 't is but one of them who talks let him disguise his defeat by the ringing of his Bells 'T was an old Dutch Pollicy when the Duke had beaten them to make Bonâ— ires for that kept the Populace in Heart Our Author knows he has all the Common People on his side and they only read the Gazetts of their own Writers so that every thing which is called an Answer is with them a Confutation and the Turk and Pope are their Sworn Enemies ever since Robin Wisdom was Inspir'd to joyn 'em together in a Godly Ballad In the mean time the Spirit of Meekness and Humble Charity would become our Author better than his boasts for this imaginary Victory or his Reflections upon Gods Anointed but it is the less to be admir'd that he is such a Stranger to that Spirit because among all the Volumes of Divinity written by the Protestants there is not one Original Treatise at least that I have seen or heard of which has handled distinctly and by it self that Christian Vertue of Humility FINIS ERRATA PAge 25. l. 24. for not the read not of the. p. 39. l. 7. it will be r. it be p. 79. l. 1. bare r. bear p. 81. l. 17. for vibsily r. visibly p. 98. l. 22. that r. his p. 111. l. 11 has r. was p. 113. l. 22. Conversion to r. Conversion wholly to A Catalogue of Books Printed for Henry Hills Printer to the King 's most Excellent Majesty for his Houshold and Chappel 1686. And are to be Sold next door to his House in Black-fryers at Richard Cheese's REflections upon the Answer to the Papist Mis-represented c. Quarto Price stitch'd 2d Papists Protesting against Protestant-Popery Quarto Price stitch'd 4d 29. Copies of Two Papers Written by the late King Charles II. Together with a Paper Written by the late Dutchess of York Folio Price 2d The Spirit of Christianity Twelves Price bound 9d in Quires 7d Six Sermons Preach'd before their Majesties in English by the Reverend Father Dom. Ph. Ellis Monk of the Holy Order of St. Benedict and of the English Congregation Chapin Ordinary to His Majesty Quarto Price stitch'd 2s 3d. An Exposition of the Doctrine of the Catholic Church in Matters of Controversie By the Right Reverend Iames Benigne Bossuet Counsellor to the King Bishop of Meaux formerly of Condom Done into English with all the former Approbations and others newly Publish'd in the Ninth and Last Editions of the French Quarto Price stitch'd 9d A Sermon Preach'd before the King and Queen in Their Majesties Chappel at St. Iames's upon the Annunciation of our Blessed Lady March 25. 1686. By Io. Bethâ— m Doctor of Sorbon Quarto Price stitch'd 4d 2q An Abstract of the Douay Catechism for the Use of Childrer and Ignorant People Now Revis'd and much Amended Twenty fours Price 2d stitch'd in Blew Paper and cut A Pastoral Letter from the Lord Bishop of Meaux to the New Catholics of his Diocess Quarto Price stitch'd 4d ob The Answer of the New Converts of France to a Pastoral Letter from a Protestant Minister Quarto Price 1d 2q The Ceremonies for the Healing of them that be Diseased with the Kings Evil used in the time of King Henry VII Quarto in Latin Price 4d 2q English in Twelves Price 2d 2q A Short Christian Doctrine Composed by the R. Father Robert Bellarmin of the Society of Iesus and Cardinal in Twelves Stitch'd in Blew Paper and cut 2d A Vindication of the Bishop of Condom's Exposition of the Doctrine of the Catholic Church In Answer to a Book Entituled An Exposition of the Doctrine of the Church of England c. With a Letter from the said Bishop Quarto Price stitch'd 1s 2d Two Sermons Preach'd before the King and Queen By the Reverend Father Iohn Persall of the Society of Iesus Professor of Divinity Quarto Price stich'd 9d The Life of St. Ignatius Founder of the Society of Iesus In Octavo Price in Quires 1s 8d bound 2s 4d An Amicable Accommodation of the Difference between the Representer and the Answerer in Return to the Last Reply against the Papist Protesting against Protestant Popery Quarto Price stitch'd 4d 2q 〈…〉 Authoritas Aug. Cont. Epist. Fund c. v. 〈…〉 2 Per. 1. â— 0 1 Cor. 11. 16. Quoniam nihil proficiat congressio Scripturarum nisi plane ut aut stomachi quis inâ— at eversionem aut cerebri Non ad Scripturas provocandum est nec in his constituendum certamen in quibus aut nulla aut incerta victoria est aut parum â— erta Tertull. de Praescrip c. 17 19. Si dixeris noli Catholicis credere non recte facies per Evangelium me cogere ad Manichaei sidem quia ipsi Evangelio Catholicis praedicantibus credidi Quod si forte in Evangelio aliquid apertissimum de Manichaei Apostolatu invenire poteris infirmabis mihi Catholicorum authoritatem qui jubent ut tibi non credam Qua infirmata jam nec Evangelio credere potero quia per eos illi credideram ita nihil apud me valebit quiâ— quid inde protuleris Si inde aliquid manifestum pro Manâ— chaeo legeris nec illis credam nec tibi Aug. cont Ep. Fund â— 5. 2 Pet. 3. 16 Si unaquaeâ—â— c disciplina quamquam 〈◊〉 lis 〈…〉 percipi possit doctorem aut magiâ— trum requirit quid temerariae superbâ— ae plenius quam â—â—â—â—norum Sacramentorum libros ab Interpretibus suis nolle cognoscere incognitos veâ—â— e damnare Aug. de Util. Cred. c. 17. tom 6. Neque 〈◊〉 parvi momenâ— est quâ— d cum c. Hoc per universam Cathoâ—â—â—◠〈…〉 â—â—â—funditâ— r observari placuit quod tenemus August conâ— r. Creâ—â— on l. 1. c 32. Quam consuetudinem credo ex 〈◊〉 traditione venientem sicut multa quae non inveniuntur in litteris eorum neque in 〈◊〉 liis posteriorum tamen quia per universam custodâ— untur Ecclesiam non 〈…〉 tradita commendata creduntur Aug. de Bap. conâ— Donatist l. 2. c. 7. Si jam 〈◊〉 tibi jactatus videris finemque hujusmodi laboribus vis imponere sequere viam Cathoâ—â—â—â— disciplinae quae ab ipso Christo per Apostolos ad nos usque manavit abhinâ— ad 〈◊〉 manatura est Aug. de Util. Cred. c. 8. 〈…〉 Quid autem si neque Apostoli quidem Scripturas reliquissent nobis nonne opportebat ordinem sequi Traditionis quam tradiderunt iis quibus committebant Ecclesias cui ordinationi aâ— lentiunt multae Gentes Barbarorum eorum qui in Christum credunt sine charta atramento scriptam habentes per spiritum in cordibus suns salutem veterem Traditionem diligenter custodientes 〈◊〉 advers Haereâ— Lib. 3. col * Sir Her Wootton Herbert Hen 8. pag. 402.
as Learn'd as himself are much more Moderate And such I am confident will be as far from abetting his Irreverence to the Royal Family as they are from the jugling Designs of his Faction to draw in the Nonconformists to their Party by assuring them they shall not be prosecuted as indeed upon their Principles they cannot be by them but in the mean time this is to wrest the Favour out of the King's Hands and take the Bestowing it into their own and to reassume to themselves that Headship of the English Church which their Ancestors gave away to King Henry the Eighth And now let any Loyal Subject but consider whether this new way of their Proceeding do's not rather tend to bring the Church of England into the Fanatics than the Fanatics into the Church of England These are the Arts which are common to him and his Fellow-labourers but his own peculiar Talent is that of subtle Calumny and sly Aspersion by which he insinuates into his Readers an ill Opinion of his Adversaries before he comes to Argument and takes away their Good Name rather by Theft than open Robbery He lays a kind of accumulative Dishonesty to their Charge and touches 'em here and there with Circumstances in stead of positive Proofs till at last he leaves a bad Impression of 'em like a Painter who makes Blotches of hard Colouring in several Parts of the Face which he smooths afterwards into a Likeness After this manner he or one of his Brethren in Iniquity has us'd Monsieur de Condom by picking up Stories against him in his Preface which he props up with little Circumstances but seldom so positive that he cannot come off when their Falsity shall be detected In the mean time his Cause go's forward with the Common Reader who prepossest by the Preface is made partial to his Answer The same kind of Artifice with some little variation has been us'd in other of their Books besides this present Libel against the Duchess But the Cloven-foot of this our Answerer appears from underneath the Cassock even in the first step he makes towards his Answer to the present Paper Which he tells us is said to be written by a great Lady How doubtfully he speaks as if there were no certainty of the Author But surely 't is more than barely said for 't is Publish'd by the same Authority which order'd the two other Papers written by His late Majesty to the Press and the Original of it is still remaining in the Hands of the present King Indeed the Bishop of Winchester may seem to have given him some encouragement for this in the Preface to his Treatises where he tells us That Maimbourg the Iesuite recites something which he says was written by the late Duchess and which he afterwards calls the Papers pretended to be written by Her But if that Bishop had liv'd to see what our Answerer has seen Her Paper Printed and Publish'd by His Majesty I cannot think he would have been so incredulous as to have made that doubt It may be allow'd him to suspect a Stranger of Forgery but with what face can this Son of the Church of England suspect the Integrity of his King In the mean time observe what an excellent Voucher he has got of this dead Bishop and what an excellent Argument he has drawn from him Because he would not believe what he did not think she said we must not believe what he know the did say Let our Author therefore come out of his Mists and Ambiguities or give us some better Authority for his unreasonable Doubts For at this rate if it be already suspected whether what she writes be Matter of Fact and indeed whether she writ it at all it may be doubted hereafter whether she chang'd and perhaps whether there were ever such a Woman After he had thus begun That this Paper was said to be written by a Great Lady for the satisfaction of her Friends he shuffles in commodious Words for an Answerer and which afford him Elbow-room For he talks of the Reasons and Motives which she had for her leaving the Communion of the Church of England c. and of the Right which all Readers have to judge of the strength of them Now as Luck will have it none of those Motives and Reasons are to be found in the Paper of her Highness She expresses her self clearly to write for the Satisfaction of her Friends not as to the Reasons she had her self for changing but as to the Censures which she might expect from them for so doing and her whole Paper shews this was only her Design So that against the Law of all Romances he first builds the Enchanted Castle and then sets up to be the Doughty Knight who conquers it It seems he found that a bare Denial which is the proper Answer to Matter of Fact was a dry Business and would make no sport and therefore he would be sure to cut himself our sufficient Work But it is not every Mans Talent to force a Trade for a Customer may chuse whether he will buy or not This Great Person chang'd not lightly nor in haste but after all the Endeavours which could be us'd by a Soul which was true to it self and to its Eternal Interest She was sensible as I before hinted that she should lose her Friends and Credit and what to her Condition at that time was more sharply piercing expose the Catholics of England to the danger of suffering for her sake On these Considerations she makes a plain Relation of all the Passages in her Change and expecting severe Censures from the World took care to satisfie her Friends concerning it As for the Reasons of it they were only betwixt God and her own Soul and the Priest with whom she spoke at last What a wonderful Art has this Gentleman to turn a bare Narrative into Motives and Inducements When he is arriv'd to the Perfection of calling down a Saint from Heaven he may examine her concerning them in the mean time he must be content with the Relation which she has left behind her here on Earth and if he will needs be mistaking her Scruples for her Motives who can help it His Design as he tells us a little after the beginning is to vindicate the Honour of the Church of England so far as it may be thought to suffer by the Paper of her late Highness I might here tell him that he has on Obligation antecedent to the Honour of his Community which is that to God and his own Conscience But the Honour of the Church of England is no farther concern'd in the Paper of her Highness than in relation to the Persons of two or there Prelates and those he leaves at last to shift for themselves as they are able with this melancholy Farewell That God be thanked the Cause of our Church do's not depend upon the singular Opinion of one or two Bishops in it wherein they apparently recede
from the establish'd Doctrine of it In the next place he is sensible how nice and tender a thing it is to meddle in a Matter wherein the Memory of so Great a Lady is concern'd Here he is sensible once for all for after this one Civility you hear no more of his Good Manners to the end of the Chapter but the Honour of the Church of England so wholly takes up his thoughts that he forgets the Respect which is due to her Sex her Quality her Memory her Relations and confutes her as coursly as the Parson did Bellarmine He go's on to inform us how hard a Task he has undertaken in answering these Papers wherein such Circumstances are mention'd as cannot fully be clear'd the Parties themselves having been many years dead yet he shall endeavour to keep within due Bounds c. These due Bounds either are or ought to be Respect to the Great Lady and Caution in regard of Circumstances which I hope he will not put upon his Readers for Arguments the Parties being dead so long ago But let the Reader here take notice that in this very Place he is clapping his Cups together and shuffling his Balls from Hand to Hand to lay the Foundation of his Jugling and to prepare the way for all the Tricks which he is to play hereafter For the Parties being dead long since that is the Duchess in the first place not being alive to justifie the several Conferences which she had with the Bishops not they in the second to answer as in the sight of God whether she had such Discourse with them the Field is open for him as he vainly imagines by laying Circumstances of Time and Place together and racking her own Paper till it seemingly speaks against her to render it suspected to his good Friends the Rabble that she has falsified the whole Matter Well we shall see what he builds upon this Foundation Let him speak for himself The way of her Satisfaction was very extraordinary for towards the Conclusion she confesses she was not able nor would she enter into Disputes with any body Commend me to him for a Man of quick dispatch At the first dash he is bringing the two Ends of her Paper together for he says Towards the Conclusion she confesses 'T was well search'd of him however to hunt counter and run to the End of her Discourse for the Beginning of his own He will lose no Advantages I warrant him Press that home Doctor She modestly owns that she was neither able nor willing to enter into Disputes therefore she had no other way to satisfie her self When the whole drift of this Pious and sincere Discourse is to inform her Friends of the Methods by which God Almighty brought her into his Church her Paper being a plain and short History of her Conversion The Answerer is of Opinion there is nothing to be done no satisfaction to be had in Matters of Religion without Dispute that 's his only Receipt his Nostrum for attaining a true belief But Doctors differ in this Point For another Witty Gentleman of his Church desir'd no other Epitaph upon his Tomb than this Here lies the Author of this Sentence Disputandi pruritus scabies Ecclesiae The itch of Disputation is the Scab or Tetter of the Church Now if the Learned avail themselves so little of Dispute that it is as rare as a Prodigie for one of them to convince another what shall become of the Ignorant when they are to deal with those fencers of Divinity Who can hit them in Tierce and Quart at pleasure while they are ignorant how to stand upon their guard And yet such poor People have Souls to save as precious in the sight of God as the grim Logicians Must they be damned unless they can make a regular approach to Heaven in Mood and Figure Is there no entring there without a Sillogism or Ergoteering it with a nego concedo distinguo The best on 't is Our Saviours Disciples were but poor Fishermen and we read but of one of his Apostles who was bred up at the Feet of Gamaliel I would beseech our Answerer to consider whether he has argued upon his own Principles in affirming that none can be satisfied as to the grounds of leaving one Church and going to the other without entring into Dispute Has he not allow'd that every Man is to Interpret the Scripture for himself in reference to his own Salvation With what Face then can he positively say That this Lady who had not only read the Scriptures but found them in her Judgment plainly to decide the great Controversie betwixt Catholics and Protestants might not leave his Church and enter into that of Christ by Interpreting this is my Body in the Litteral and Obvious meaning If from a Catholic she had become a Protestant by expounding those Words in a Figurative Sense he would have applauded her for not discerning the Lords Body and said she was in the right to interpret for her self But she it seems must be an exception to his General Rule and not have that priviledge allow'd her which he dare not deny to any Sectary of the Nonconformists The Phanatics think the Scripture is clear in all Matters of Salvation and if so what need say they of those Spiritual Directours Even the Pillars of the Church by Law establish'd from their own Concessions are found to be but broken Staffs For after all their undertaking to heal a wounded Conscience when the Arrows of the Almighty are stuck into it they leave their Proselytes finally to the Scripture as our Physicians when they have emptied the Pockets of their Patients without curing them send them at last to Tunbridge Waters or the Air of Montpelliers But if Persons be resolv'd before hand what to do says our Answerer there is no such way as to declare they will not enter into Dispute Here he would make us believe that she swallow'd a new Religion without chewing it because she Disputed not I have shew'd already what is the common fate of Disputation But had she no other way of satisfying her Conscience as he immediately infers she had not If he were not obstinately blind or rather had not an intention to blind his Reader he might have observ'd the Methods and Gradations of her change and that tho' she Disputed not yet she Discoursed which is entring into Matter of Dispute with some of the ablest of the English Clergy even with him particularly who was left by the Bishop of Winchester to be her Spiritual Directour by which it plainly appears notwithstanding all the jugglings and glosses of our Answerer that the better part even of his own Prescription was put in practice by her though without effect as to her satisfaction Why then do's he ask so many idle Questions Had she no Divines of the Church of England about her none able and willing to afford her their utmost assistance when she takes care to